It could be possible to instead apply it to minecarts. Wax the wheels to make them go faster. Add copper to make them go slower. That could cause item creep though.
In Dwarf Fortress there's a weapons system players have engineered called the Minecart Shotgun. It works by filling a minecart, derailing it at ludicrous speed and peppering the target with its contents, which has predictably gory results.
Yup hit the nail on the head with the copper rail idea. I had a similar idea to as it makes copper more useful and allows old contraptions to exist, but having oxidation determine the speed cap is genius.
Yea I'd prefer the redstone version, it could be sooo dynamic and seems like it would have some cool redstone uses - since it can be changed without rebuilding things
@@zhabiboss perhaps, to each their own. I am an intermediate redstoner so by no means is my opinion the correct one, I just think that having to add a specific signal strength to each rail is a bit tedious and bulky. Unless no input defaults to the original 8 bps speed then I think having less precision is a worthy trade off. Maybe combining alternating variants could average the speed for more control.
What if each level of oxidation also created an increasing level of visual wobble, where going too fast would kick you off the track (with full oxidation derailing at any speed)
Building on that how about diamond rails with really advanced hight quality properties or wood rail with low quality properties. Imagine netherite rails!
@@justcommenting8567this is the same game that has you punching floating trees, creatures that explode when they get close to you, living skeletons, portals that take you to hell, and a literal dragon. And you’re worried about diamonds not being a good conductor?
While not specifically seen in this video; I've seen Copper Rails as an idea for a cheaper Powered Rail (while repurposing Powered Rail to be Faster) ever since Copper is announced, aka a pretty popular idea all the way from 2020 at least.
@@Butterscotch_96 Not just that though, other than the fact that it logically doesn't make sense; Diamond Rails ALSO (and most importantly) doesn't make sense at all gameplay-wise either. Why add more arbitrary variants of rails that further complicates things and makes Minecarts more unintuitive in the process when both Copper Rails and the existing Gold Rails can already cover the potential purposes of those unnecessary rails all while simultaneously making/keeping Copper and Gold valuable for gameplay.
I fee like another comment said redstone rails would be better because you have more possible states and you can dynamically control them with redstone. But i think they should still be made out of copper but controlled with redstone.
@@ICE0124 From a practical perspective, I'd have to agree. I was looking at this from a thematic perspective, tying it into copper's main mechanic, and it seems believable that more heavily oxidized copper rails would be worse to drive on.
@@deltamico I mean annoying for transportation, sure, the rollercoasters thing was annoying too, but the part when you were trying to make a minecart through the caves and and it would kept derrailing was the most annoying part
Alongside the copper rails as brakes, this mechanic would add really cool engineering. You'd have to have the Rollercoaster slow down as it entered turns, which would encourage right angle paths to maximize speed. Slopes would also need to be mitigated if vertical derailing was a thing (to prevent fall damage when flying off hill crests). Adding in elytra like collision damage would also incentivise long brakes at the end of paths. G force, at the bottom of hills, would probably be a step too far lol
I 95% agree. I think the corner derailing is an antifeature. Games are about escapism, and realism is usually the first victim in service of that. Let minecarts turn corners at silly speeds, because it creates fun.
There is another issue with minecarts turning corners at any speed. The raycasting algorithm used to detect the shape of the rail can loop back over the same rail multiple times if the speed of the minecart is high enough. This causes redundant processing and memory usage meaning it would actually be ideal for the raycast to eventually terminate and de-rail the cart before it crashes your game.
@@cubicmetre Surely the algorithm would just look however many rails ahead it needs to, e.g. 4 rails for 80 m/s. Why would seeing the same rail again make a difference?
Hi, there are a few errors in the video, but I totally agree with the suggested minecart changes. The power output of the rails is not a constant 4kW, but, since they are outputting constant force, proportional to the minecart speed. At 80m/s they are outputting 4kN*80m/s= around 240 hp. If the rails were limited to constant power output (with a force cap at very low velocities) instead of force output, the acceleration and terminal velocities would feel even more natural.
There is a rough modelling for electric motors where u assume the torque drops linearly with the rpm, so u have a peak torque a 0 rpm, 0 torque at a certain max rpm and theoretically even negative at higher speeds. Power is also not constant but has a maximum at half the max rpm. I think it would be a good option in this case
I doubt anyone else misses it and no little ones will understand, but the furnace minecart is my favorite thing in Minecraft. The amount of shenanigans I pulled off with it before redstone tracks, and even after, the faster railroad building, the redstone I still managed to work, THE FASTER RAILROAD BUILDING... All but a distant memory now... Those were some good times. Why can't we just bring that back and then it can push, and maybe pull for faster speeds with some chains for attachments, as like a short unbreakable stiff lead or something, and better fuel could even make to go even faster and pull harder, if it cooks for more than coal it could get a bigger boost and pull bigger trains but only last as long as coal or something, and we can have racecars, trains, and flying carts, and everyone can have something... Especially me😅🥰 Just give me my cart please😅💜 also, why would you really want to bring back minecarts breaking and derailing again?😅
absolutely agree on furnace minecarts, I used them several times when was transporting villagers (as well as other mobs) somewhere, as they are pretty cheap and do the job fairly well (well, most of the time, at least, in the current state they are slightly weird) I would love to see mojang allowing to put in them, for example, blaze powder, or gunpowder, or something similar to this, making furnace minecarts produce a lot more particles, noise, and ofc a lot more force
I agree with you, specially with the derailing mechanic, it was just an annoying bug, there's no reason to implement it on purpose, it would confuse and annoy people, and also make fast lateral rails impossible
@@RobopTH-cam if it derails consistently, it could even be a fun mechanic tho, allowing for separation of minecarts for example. Passenger carts go faster so they would derail while empty minecarts would just turn. You could then catch the derailed minecarts onto another track
Agree, it would also make little sense in my opinion. In real life you can change both speed and curve radius to prevent it, but in mc the radius is fixed and already unrealistically tiny. Assuming the cart is empty the maximum allowed speed would be around 8 km/h
Derailing at corners would be a good idea SPECIFICALLY for a rail that goes incredibly fast, it's not really that complicated to know that a minecart that goes fast will derail especially when that cart goes faster than Boats on Blue Ice. Derailing at least in my case would make for a fair trade-off and would make the moderately fast rail practical while making the super fast rail mostly specific for straight rails (more or less like Boats on Ice).
1:08 one small correction: Time in the real world is NOT infinitely divisible. It is quantized. There is such a thing as a smallest amount of time measurable. It's defined as the Planck time, named after physicist Max Planck. Planck time is roughly 10^-43 seconds. Quantum physics is fun stuff!
Time is infinitely divisible, but we cannot accurately measure it. Energy is quantised, which gives the Planck constant as the smallest division of energy but time, position and momentum are still very much continuous values. The only issue is, on the quantum scale, we cannot accurately measure a particles momentum and position together because of the discrete levels of energy. If we wanted to know a particles position, we would have to sacrifice the knowledge of its momentum and vice versa. The same holds true for any two related (continuous) measurements of a particle. The fallacy here is that measurement isn’t the same as the environment. Time, position and momentum are still continuous vectors (is time a vector?) even though measurements are quantised
new rails really would be the perfect solution, as they can be made so their cart snapping is like that of the old rails, fixing another problem from the cart changes. The weathered copper rail idea especially is rad
More realistic drag is an absolutely genius suggestion. I suggest keeping it linear until 8 m/s to make sure old physics are unchanged below the old speed cap
When you mentioned mine carts derailing if accelerating too fast, I had flashbacks to Dwarf Fortress. Yes, lets introduce Minecraft players to minecart !!FUN!!
Could also have hopper and maybe chest minecarts restricted to the old speed while regular minecarts can be faster, but the lack of consistency would be unintuitive. Hopefully Mojang takes on the ideas of copper rails I've seen, it would be a great solution to so many problems.
I could see rideable minecarts simply being faster than block-containing carts. Aerodynamics and general realism could be discarded to respect the magical nature of the blocks being immovable, even by gravity, outside of minecarts.
15:03 Honestly, no. If Mojang wants to fix minecarts, they should do it right and implement all your suggestions. It's even an experimental snapshot, so not under time pressure and allowed to do bigger changes.
@@nqdoms Derailing used to be a thing in a snapshot back then, it was super annoying for people bc no one could make rollercoasters without derailing apparently
I think the derailing would make fewer people use minecarts, which kind of opposes the intent of changing how they work. The issue is that the only option to turn the mine cart is a 90 degree turn on one block, this means that even with the previous max speed, they still pull over 6.5gs when rounding corners. I think most players would get annoyed at this constraint when trying to build a transportation system, especially with all the other parts of the game that ignore real life physics (ex floating blocks or how much weight Steve can carry). I like most of the proposed changes, but don't think derailing would be well received
@@-fsa-3615 Derailing was only annoying because it happens so easily for very little in return (considering Minecarts didn't and still don't go fast anyways). Derailing would be better if it's reserved for the rail variant that goes fast (Boat in Blue Ice level of fast) so the normal Powered Rails would still have a use both in contraptions and transportation-- making the faster rail reserved for fast transportation in straight lines.
14:57 I think your view of "player expectations" comes from an engineering bias and not your average "I just want a fun coaster" player. Plus, it would be really unfun from a gameplay perspective if you try to make your railway back home faster only to realize it breaks entirely
@@morgancrystalline4746 I appreciate your point of view. What I'm trying to say, in other words, is that this is a video game where Steve can carry more gold than Hercules and eats wood inorder to craft. Let the silly block game have silly fast turns
@@nathanruiz3424 We all appreciate a good silly block game but the point of this video isn’t really just engineering realism, it’s more so about intuitive game design. Essentially what feels right, and is also balanced.
@@itchyro_ Thank you for clarifying but I think I addressed this in my first comment. To be clear, I personally don't think carts flying off of corners is "intuitive" from a gameplay perspective. Imagine you build a railway from your base to a mineshaft, there are a few turns and hills, it goes through a forest and a river, it's scenic and fun if a little slow. From the mineshaft you find lots of gold, plenty to make your railway back home much faster, you don't mind the scenic route just wish it was faster. You finish replacing the regular rails with accelerator rail and are about to enjoy the prospects of your labor. You hop in your cart and prepare to take a faster scenic route... Until you are promptly thrown into the river. In this moment how would you feel? Happy that your favorite game implements such realistic physics? Or Frustrated that now there's a new variable that you have to account for AND you have to redesign your railway, either making it less scenic (probably including some terraforming) or less fast (so much for all the gold you found and already crafted into rails)?
12:37 that doesn't give a power output for the rail, speed and acceleration becomes more "expensive" the faster something is moving. Kinetic energy scales with velocity squared, so you can't give a power output. You could however give the energy every rail can give to the minecart, by N*M. So simply 4085J per rail
Love the ideas, but the only technical issue I see with making minecarts travel this fast is that chunk loading most likely won't be able to keep up on low/mid-range hardware or servers with loads of players. Other than that I do love the idea of adding copper rails with specific speed limits and having nice and fast golden rails :)
@@commander3494 still, 75 meters per second is equal to 75 blocks per second which is 8-9 chunks of lateral movement per second ignoring the chunks around the player, that’s going to heavily stress any lesser system into submission with ease
@@Jupue It would try to load all of them as it tries to load a certain radius around the player, plus each second has 20 game ticks so it would be in every individual chunk as well for a certain amount of time
@@Jupue Quick maths: 75 blocks/second / 16 blocks/chunk = 4.6875 chunks/second Default server load distance is 10 chunks, which means the player loads an area 21 chunks across (the one they're in plus 10 in each direction) 4.8875 * 21 = *_98.4375_*_ chunks loaded per second on average_
A dedicated new rail type was one of the first things I thought of when I saw the experimental minecart speed changes. Far too many things rely on the current minecart speed for a universal speed cap adjustment. Having either a new rail type *or* a new minecart type would allow players to have the best of both worlds, allowing for faster traversal via minecart *and* consistent speed for complex contraptions. Personally, I think a new rail type would allow for more flexibility in builds; but even just a minecart variant with a higher speed cap would be a big step forward.
Honestly some of the best constructive criticism and suggestions of the experimental features I've seen, really hope Mojang listens to folks like you about this
You know, I usually I don’t like technical player’s solutions to things (because they tend to be stupidly complicated and out of reach), this one is actually a pretty cool one. Specially the rust part for different speeds. It’s pretty intuitive and easy to understand. However, this relies on Mojang doing any work to add new things to the game, which they are deadly allergic to. My guess is that they won’t bother to add a new block in just a minor update.
Thinking about it, I think the best solution aside adding a new block is to make minecarts work the same as always unders certain speed, and only start doing their funky redstone-breaking stuff when over that speed. You won’t be using long, fast tracks in redstone either-way.
@@AlextheLordofFire no, the redstone-breaking isn't intentional or fixable, it's because of the overall design of the game a hopper minecart checks above it once every 1/20 of a second if a hopper minecart moves faster than 20 blocks per second, it ends up moving past some of the containers without checking them this is because *everything* in minecraft runs 20 times per second
@@lilyalexander963 yeah, I’ve seen the same video. What I’m saying is that if Minecraft speed was made to only reach that speed of over one block per tick after a certain distance through acceleration (and also just switch on and off some other functions which might break redstone) it would work still nicely with redstone contraptions which’s rail lines don’t typically extend more than 20 meters. The only problem would be regulating the pickups in continuous lines with many containers, but I feel like if implemented correctly (big “if” btw), having some distance between powered rails could still keep that maximum of meter per tick, let’s say for example five blocks. Any less than five blocks between powered rails, and you start building up speed again. I see this as the laziest solution Mojang could go with if they cannot be bothered to add a block.
0:35 What do you mean by "Mojang wants to change minecarts from being slow and precise"..? Minecart aren't precise now, and since when does Mojang want to make minecarts not precise?
By precise; they were specifically talking about its function with redstone contraptions, but yeah I don't get why he has to say as if the devs are specifically changing every function of Minecarts when all they did that could even remotely affect the "slow and precise" part is by introducing a gamerule for modifying the max speed.
By the way, some things were fixed in the latest snapshot. Carts don't clip to the center of the block; they are diagonal on curved tracks again; and they don't phase through blocks
Really hope mojang considers the copper rail idea. Builders would get fast rails for transport and rollercoasters and stuff as well as cool degrading rails for stuff like old mineshafts and such. Redstoneers would get rails that move a precise and convenient speed, and have rails that can transport faster.
The easiest solution imo is to just have different speed limits for different minecart types. Just have the hopper minecarts limited to their default 8 value and speed up the regular minecarts
Best way to make minecarts faster (in my opinion): Copper rail idea suggested in this video Special types of rails that have more shallow turns/curves (like a real life train track) instead of a sudden 90 degree turn to avoid derailing but still have turns acceleration and max speed as mentioned in this video a bit controversial but rails should wear out over time if minecarts are constantly going fast over them more rail types to allow for loops etc for cool rollercoasters minecart trains, which are just loads of minecarts joined in a line (like train/rollercoaster carriages)
Bro isn't cooking, he's preparing an entire buffet. Ever since seeing this minecart snapshot i have always believed that the solution would've resided in allowing the player to "overcome" the old speed limit by combining the minecart and a gold ingot inside the smithing table - thus ensuring backwards compatibility with the old minecart mechanics but, if i have to be honest, i am extremely intrigued by the idea of using copper rails as a speed control mechanism in the game for that would not only allow for new farm designs that were not possible before but also it would allow creators to make more realistic and immersive rollecoasters! I absolutely endorse this concept and i would love to see it in a upcoming snapshot!
Wow! I've always loved your content. But now going into things like fluid dynamics, that's just combining all the things I love. And really smart solutions to the issues.
i love you for simple reasons. You explains the game mecanics, it's changes, the problems it poses, AND you give a potential solution that makes sense within the game logic.
The changes proposed in this video are so intuitive and so right! I hope Mojang is lurking here somewhere and taking notes, as I'd love to see this implemented into vanilla. :)
i just love how the redstone community fixes things that mojang took months to get to experimental, in a few days XD the good thing is, mojang knows this and with these updates they heavily rely on our feedback. so thanks Cubic - copper Rails !!!!!!!
10:35 I'm wondering if this is going too far Naaahhhh it's probably fine Also this video kinda turns into a Game Theory episode with all the mathematic graphs on physics of a object that exists in a unrealistic video game
I believe the minecraft speed should be the same as currently, so 8b/s, but add a new very costly powered rail which is 10 times faster, at 80b/s (this would remove the need of piston bolt and will bring back minecarts to the competition of elytras and boats on blue ice). And also, make so the furnace minecraft speed can be modified by the player or restone components dynamically between 1b/s to 16b/s.
I love your ideas. I hope Mojang takes at least *some* of them on board. Having to manage cornering speed would be fun and educational; a definite plus for the game.
8:49 This is only true for turbulent flow, what it probably would be edit: no, it's not that easy as first is laminar flow, which has a more minecraft-like formula
The linear relation is only considered for ideal cases where the flow regime remains laminar for large velocity scales. In this case turbulence is going to take over very rapidly meaning the quadratic relation is a good enough approximation for the laminar regime before it goes turbulent.
@@cubicmetre I think it's not for large scales, but when there is laminar flow. But yeah, your system would be better then current minecraft. I'm also a fan of realistic rotation, shouldn't be that hard after all, at least with a constant moment of inertia
I love the rails idea and was thinking the same thing as you about having multiple rails for different speeds. Love the over the top look at carts you did though, really funny but also something id love to see for MC. the roller coasters I used to build when I first was playing with minecarts back in the day would be epic with a cart system like this haha
Love this idea! It solves the best of both worlds, and creates a cool new use for copper in technical builds! I’m not sure about the derailing option though, as a normal player would not expect a Minecraft to derail. That might be fun for a technical player, but I think standard players wouldn’t want to use them.
4:16 "So the game is essentially lying to you about where an entity is in any given frame to create the illusion of continuous motion" So kinda like quantum mechanics...
I always wondered why they never implemented a gunpowder "trail" that you could place just like redstone and use to burn things or light TNT like a cartoon. I know it doesn't solve the redstone problem, but this comment reminded me of that idea.
Ok at first I was going along with the copper rail for shits and giggles but you've convinced me. Your proposed changes (sounds aside) would be incredible!
I know it's a Minecraft video but I don't think you did a great job explaining how a linear recurrence relation and a quadratic differential equation behave. I found the bit comparing their graphs on desmos confusing especially because they are drag forces so the higher the values the more they slow you down. I don't think it is initiative to someone who hasn't dealt with recurrence relations before or someone who isn't familiar with drag (as the 2 equations are shown side by side despite one being a force equation and the other being a velocity recurrence relation). I think it would have made more sense to compare the resulting velocity curves (i.e. solving both and plotting the resulting function or just iteratively generating the values) like you showed briefly. The velocity and acceleration curves are what makes it feel natural not the order of one part of the recurrence relation. Overall great video and I really like the idea for a variable copper powered rail. Edit: Haven't done this maths for a while but I believe the solution to Minecraft's model is v=D*P(1-D^t)/(1-D) I don't think your model has a solution (or atleast not one easy enough for me to find because it is a quadratic first order recurrence relation) so you would have to use an approximation and compare their curves.
Those are really nice ideas ! I love the copper rails. I think the thing is we all want faster and fun minecarts (even as technical players), but precise ones too, and these kind of changes are really hard to balance...I hope Mojang will see this kind of videos and take some of those good solutions. I want them to stop changing redstone though...they already broke update suppression which was only something technical players were interested in and it was already not easy to do...they need to stop !
I really like your idea, both the oxidized copper variants and the "unlimited" speed powered rails seem really interesting. I feel like both could open so many possibilites, if done properly in consistent and predictable manner.
He's looking for a job as a real engineer, but is also roasting mojang about how the game phisics should be made, and that their equasions are wrong XD
This seems like the perfect addition and your well put together reasoning behind the changes you proposed could very well make Mojang consider implementing them.
The speed increase is also something that will mostly affect people tampering with their gameplay with commands. So it will mostly not affect people playing "vanilla". What really needs to change imo is adding a sort of wagon system where you can link carts, the ability to make crossroads, adding braking rails that can also launch a cart again on power (like your copper rails), the ability to use different fuels than coal that might add more speed and making them more immersive in general. Something I'd also be fond of would be allowing players, just like in boats, to have two seats in an empty cart. Functional ones could still only take one type of block and storage ones could maybe take a double chest instead then.
1:00 holy shit he said the line
cubicmetre mentioned???
revolutionary
Wait did he actually just reference my favourite youtuber cubicmetre? love that guy, hope he can collab soon!
1:29 too
I loved when cubicmetre said "It's cubicmetre time!" and calculated terminal velocity of a minecart
the copper rail suggestions would actually be perfect
It could be possible to instead apply it to minecarts.
Wax the wheels to make them go faster. Add copper to make them go slower.
That could cause item creep though.
Mojang would never take good suggestions 😂
@@jimcobbler3954 I think a simpler solution would be to have copper minecarts that are faster than iron, they could even oxidize to become slower
if they only change regular minecarts and not hopper/chest minecarts it would also be fine
It's too perfect, Mojang would never 😂
The start: "Haha this dude used physics in a block game!"
The end: "What the heck this makes sense, Mojang do this pls"
Fr
im praying that this gets added
HII SIR CLUCKETY
@@RedstoneSteveYT haha!! HI REDSTONE STEVE!!!
@@SirClucketyFancy seeing you here! I had to do a double take after seeing your pfp!
A minecart going at 270km/h straight at you is the stuff of nightmares
Just a big chunk of metal traveling 167.7702219mp/h
Nobody can stop the A Train.
MINECRAFT VILLAGE
240 BLOCKS
5 BLOCK RAMP
9 MINECART SPAWN
* *20 Seconds Later* *
FIRE
* *Village gets destroyed soon after* *
In Dwarf Fortress there's a weapons system players have engineered called the Minecart Shotgun.
It works by filling a minecart, derailing it at ludicrous speed and peppering the target with its contents, which has predictably gory results.
And if it really is multiple tons heavy, you would basically burn to ashes if it hits you.
Yup hit the nail on the head with the copper rail idea. I had a similar idea to as it makes copper more useful and allows old contraptions to exist, but having oxidation determine the speed cap is genius.
The issue is that there will be less states for the the rail, the redstone implementation seems better, since there are 4 times as many states
Yea I'd prefer the redstone version, it could be sooo dynamic and seems like it would have some cool redstone uses - since it can be changed without rebuilding things
Why not both? @@zhabiboss
@@zhabiboss perhaps, to each their own. I am an intermediate redstoner so by no means is my opinion the correct one, I just think that having to add a specific signal strength to each rail is a bit tedious and bulky. Unless no input defaults to the original 8 bps speed then I think having less precision is a worthy trade off. Maybe combining alternating variants could average the speed for more control.
What if each level of oxidation also created an increasing level of visual wobble, where going too fast would kick you off the track (with full oxidation derailing at any speed)
Bro has a PHD in minecart engineering
He has a master degree in engineering, I think
@@OstronX???? I think he just studied engineering, no master yet. And the guy made a joke, obviously..
I mean the guy made a wireless "quantum" communication network protocol in Minecraft
If that ai'nt PhD worthy, idk what is
Fluid dynamics in Minecraft is crazy
real
Even the air is just a bunch of cubes
Cubic meters to be precise
We got fluid dynamics in Minecraft before GTA VI
@@Faroshkas 😐
i can't believe i hadn't even heard of the copper rail idea i love that like genuinely that could be so useful
Building on that how about diamond rails with really advanced hight quality properties or wood rail with low quality properties. Imagine netherite rails!
@@deepkhamaru diamond is not an optimal conductor of electricity. go read up on your condensed matter physics
@@justcommenting8567this is the same game that has you punching floating trees, creatures that explode when they get close to you, living skeletons, portals that take you to hell, and a literal dragon. And you’re worried about diamonds not being a good conductor?
While not specifically seen in this video; I've seen Copper Rails as an idea for a cheaper Powered Rail (while repurposing Powered Rail to be Faster) ever since Copper is announced, aka a pretty popular idea all the way from 2020 at least.
@@Butterscotch_96 Not just that though, other than the fact that it logically doesn't make sense; Diamond Rails ALSO (and most importantly) doesn't make sense at all gameplay-wise either.
Why add more arbitrary variants of rails that further complicates things and makes Minecarts more unintuitive in the process when both Copper Rails and the existing Gold Rails can already cover the potential purposes of those unnecessary rails all while simultaneously making/keeping Copper and Gold valuable for gameplay.
0:57 "The world is subdivided into Cubicmeter volumes"
Dude's got a volume unit named after him!
he is the euler of minecraft
I love the idea of the oxidized copper for different speed limits.
All of your ideas here would be great to see in a mod if Mojang doesn't add them.
It would be very cohesive with copper bulbs, too!
it would make the manufacturing of once-oxidized rails quite fun
gotta make em, then oxidize them once, wax em, and then collect them.
I fee like another comment said redstone rails would be better because you have more possible states and you can dynamically control them with redstone. But i think they should still be made out of copper but controlled with redstone.
just a worse idea than controlling it with redstone
@@ICE0124 From a practical perspective, I'd have to agree. I was looking at this from a thematic perspective, tying it into copper's main mechanic, and it seems believable that more heavily oxidized copper rails would be worse to drive on.
seems like being able to shoot minecarts into the stratosphere is one of the few good changes amongst all the other redstone breaking ones
They fixed most of the issues today
It seems most of the breaking changes were unintentional
@@Catterjeeo the quasi connectivity and stuff?
@@nebula391 Yes they explicitly said they were going to adress the issues with that later
@@atshame6712 good :)
0:06 bro was sent into the sun
Crimson dynamo headass 😭
good observation
😂
bro was blasted off again
lol
Mojang actually had minecarts derail in a really old snapshot and nobody liked it because their rollercoasters broke
People didn't like it because it was annoying, not because it broke rollercoasters
breaking rollercoasters is what makes it annoying though
Yeah, that's the only idea I don't like
@@deltamico I mean annoying for transportation, sure, the rollercoasters thing was annoying too, but the part when you were trying to make a minecart through the caves and and it would kept derrailing was the most annoying part
Alongside the copper rails as brakes, this mechanic would add really cool engineering. You'd have to have the Rollercoaster slow down as it entered turns, which would encourage right angle paths to maximize speed. Slopes would also need to be mitigated if vertical derailing was a thing (to prevent fall damage when flying off hill crests). Adding in elytra like collision damage would also incentivise long brakes at the end of paths. G force, at the bottom of hills, would probably be a step too far lol
I 95% agree. I think the corner derailing is an antifeature. Games are about escapism, and realism is usually the first victim in service of that. Let minecarts turn corners at silly speeds, because it creates fun.
There is another issue with minecarts turning corners at any speed. The raycasting algorithm used to detect the shape of the rail can loop back over the same rail multiple times if the speed of the minecart is high enough. This causes redundant processing and memory usage meaning it would actually be ideal for the raycast to eventually terminate and de-rail the cart before it crashes your game.
@@cubicmetre Surely the algorithm would just look however many rails ahead it needs to, e.g. 4 rails for 80 m/s. Why would seeing the same rail again make a difference?
I hate coming home from my 9 to 5 minecart job and going into minecraft and having them derail!!!!
God!!!!!!!!
@@cubicmetrewhat did you use for the simulation?
They tried a derailing mechanic on another snapshot, it definitely did not work.
Hi, there are a few errors in the video, but I totally agree with the suggested minecart changes. The power output of the rails is not a constant 4kW, but, since they are outputting constant force, proportional to the minecart speed. At 80m/s they are outputting 4kN*80m/s= around 240 hp. If the rails were limited to constant power output (with a force cap at very low velocities) instead of force output, the acceleration and terminal velocities would feel even more natural.
There is a rough modelling for electric motors where u assume the torque drops linearly with the rpm, so u have a peak torque a 0 rpm, 0 torque at a certain max rpm and theoretically even negative at higher speeds. Power is also not constant but has a maximum at half the max rpm. I think it would be a good option in this case
I doubt anyone else misses it and no little ones will understand, but the furnace minecart is my favorite thing in Minecraft. The amount of shenanigans I pulled off with it before redstone tracks, and even after, the faster railroad building, the redstone I still managed to work, THE FASTER RAILROAD BUILDING... All but a distant memory now... Those were some good times. Why can't we just bring that back and then it can push, and maybe pull for faster speeds with some chains for attachments, as like a short unbreakable stiff lead or something, and better fuel could even make to go even faster and pull harder, if it cooks for more than coal it could get a bigger boost and pull bigger trains but only last as long as coal or something, and we can have racecars, trains, and flying carts, and everyone can have something... Especially me😅🥰 Just give me my cart please😅💜 also, why would you really want to bring back minecarts breaking and derailing again?😅
i just like furnace minecarts bc it helps me push villagers up ramps easier when i don’t quite have enough gold or redstone to craft the powered rails
absolutely agree on furnace minecarts, I used them several times when was transporting villagers (as well as other mobs) somewhere, as they are pretty cheap and do the job fairly well (well, most of the time, at least, in the current state they are slightly weird)
I would love to see mojang allowing to put in them, for example, blaze powder, or gunpowder, or something similar to this, making furnace minecarts produce a lot more particles, noise, and ofc a lot more force
I agree with you, specially with the derailing mechanic, it was just an annoying bug, there's no reason to implement it on purpose, it would confuse and annoy people, and also make fast lateral rails impossible
@@RobopTH-cam if it derails consistently, it could even be a fun mechanic tho, allowing for separation of minecarts for example. Passenger carts go faster so they would derail while empty minecarts would just turn. You could then catch the derailed minecarts onto another track
@@fojtikv maybe, but for what I have seen (with mods that make minecarts faster) it's just extremely annoying
People really dont want minecarts derailing, its too complicated for most people to want to deal with
Especially since it was one of the original ideas that Mojang worked on but decided against during early development.
Agree, it would also make little sense in my opinion. In real life you can change both speed and curve radius to prevent it, but in mc the radius is fixed and already unrealistically tiny. Assuming the cart is empty the maximum allowed speed would be around 8 km/h
Yeah, Minecart derailing would cause more issues and ruin more things.
@@amirhosseinmaghsoodi388 yep, 14w11a if you wanna try it out
Derailing at corners would be a good idea SPECIFICALLY for a rail that goes incredibly fast, it's not really that complicated to know that a minecart that goes fast will derail especially when that cart goes faster than Boats on Blue Ice.
Derailing at least in my case would make for a fair trade-off and would make the moderately fast rail practical while making the super fast rail mostly specific for straight rails (more or less like Boats on Ice).
1:08 one small correction:
Time in the real world is NOT infinitely divisible. It is quantized. There is such a thing as a smallest amount of time measurable. It's defined as the Planck time, named after physicist Max Planck. Planck time is roughly 10^-43 seconds. Quantum physics is fun stuff!
Time is infinitely divisible, but we cannot accurately measure it.
Energy is quantised, which gives the Planck constant as the smallest division of energy but time, position and momentum are still very much continuous values. The only issue is, on the quantum scale, we cannot accurately measure a particles momentum and position together because of the discrete levels of energy. If we wanted to know a particles position, we would have to sacrifice the knowledge of its momentum and vice versa. The same holds true for any two related (continuous) measurements of a particle.
The fallacy here is that measurement isn’t the same as the environment. Time, position and momentum are still continuous vectors (is time a vector?) even though measurements are quantised
This is such a good idea... and therefore will never be added lol
Mojang moment
hi mistry ore :p
My thoughts exactly
I mean we got slime stone
U know the derailing feature was actually added? The community hated it so they reverted it.
14:20 Favourite moment
same
new rails really would be the perfect solution, as they can be made so their cart snapping is like that of the old rails, fixing another problem from the cart changes. The weathered copper rail idea especially is rad
that oxidized rail solution is so elegant and fun im honestly disappointed that it probably won’t be a thing
More realistic drag is an absolutely genius suggestion.
I suggest keeping it linear until 8 m/s to make sure old physics are unchanged below the old speed cap
When you mentioned mine carts derailing if accelerating too fast, I had flashbacks to Dwarf Fortress.
Yes, lets introduce Minecraft players to minecart !!FUN!!
I want pipeline grinding in minecraft
i had flashblacks of railcraft
never ever trust a dwarf fortress player to tell you what is "fun"
But we're so honest about it, we even indicate what type of !!FUN!!
Could also have hopper and maybe chest minecarts restricted to the old speed while regular minecarts can be faster, but the lack of consistency would be unintuitive. Hopefully Mojang takes on the ideas of copper rails I've seen, it would be a great solution to so many problems.
I could see rideable minecarts simply being faster than block-containing carts. Aerodynamics and general realism could be discarded to respect the magical nature of the blocks being immovable, even by gravity, outside of minecarts.
What if you want to move items a long distance, wouldn't it be annoying then?
That seems like a bandaid fix, not that good imo. Copper rails would be so much cooler
Heck no. Being able to transport tons of items at speed is a huge upside for minecarts.
15:03 Honestly, no. If Mojang wants to fix minecarts, they should do it right and implement all your suggestions. It's even an experimental snapshot, so not under time pressure and allowed to do bigger changes.
Agreed, all of these changes are very valuable esp the derailing one will make minecart tracks more interesting to build
@@nqdoms Derailing used to be a thing in a snapshot back then, it was super annoying for people bc no one could make rollercoasters without derailing apparently
I think the derailing would make fewer people use minecarts, which kind of opposes the intent of changing how they work. The issue is that the only option to turn the mine cart is a 90 degree turn on one block, this means that even with the previous max speed, they still pull over 6.5gs when rounding corners. I think most players would get annoyed at this constraint when trying to build a transportation system, especially with all the other parts of the game that ignore real life physics (ex floating blocks or how much weight Steve can carry). I like most of the proposed changes, but don't think derailing would be well received
@@-fsa-3615 Derailing was only annoying because it happens so easily for very little in return (considering Minecarts didn't and still don't go fast anyways).
Derailing would be better if it's reserved for the rail variant that goes fast (Boat in Blue Ice level of fast) so the normal Powered Rails would still have a use both in contraptions and transportation-- making the faster rail reserved for fast transportation in straight lines.
14:57 I think your view of "player expectations" comes from an engineering bias and not your average "I just want a fun coaster" player. Plus, it would be really unfun from a gameplay perspective if you try to make your railway back home faster only to realize it breaks entirely
exactly
I mean, when he says player expectations there, what I'm hearing is "how to allow fast minecarts without them looking very silly when taking turns"
@@morgancrystalline4746 I appreciate your point of view. What I'm trying to say, in other words, is that this is a video game where Steve can carry more gold than Hercules and eats wood inorder to craft.
Let the silly block game have silly fast turns
@@nathanruiz3424 We all appreciate a good silly block game but the point of this video isn’t really just engineering realism, it’s more so about intuitive game design. Essentially what feels right, and is also balanced.
@@itchyro_ Thank you for clarifying but I think I addressed this in my first comment. To be clear, I personally don't think carts flying off of corners is "intuitive" from a gameplay perspective. Imagine you build a railway from your base to a mineshaft, there are a few turns and hills, it goes through a forest and a river, it's scenic and fun if a little slow. From the mineshaft you find lots of gold, plenty to make your railway back home much faster, you don't mind the scenic route just wish it was faster. You finish replacing the regular rails with accelerator rail and are about to enjoy the prospects of your labor. You hop in your cart and prepare to take a faster scenic route... Until you are promptly thrown into the river.
In this moment how would you feel?
Happy that your favorite game implements such realistic physics?
Or Frustrated that now there's a new variable that you have to account for AND you have to redesign your railway, either making it less scenic (probably including some terraforming) or less fast (so much for all the gold you found and already crafted into rails)?
13:51 Maybe this could be what the gamerule is used for, to determine what speed derailing should occur at
12:37 that doesn't give a power output for the rail, speed and acceleration becomes more "expensive" the faster something is moving. Kinetic energy scales with velocity squared, so you can't give a power output. You could however give the energy every rail can give to the minecart, by N*M. So simply 4085J per rail
good catch!
Love the ideas, but the only technical issue I see with making minecarts travel this fast is that chunk loading most likely won't be able to keep up on low/mid-range hardware or servers with loads of players. Other than that I do love the idea of adding copper rails with specific speed limits and having nice and fast golden rails :)
Well since the chunks have to already be generated to have rails in them it should be fine. Just loading chunks isn't really that slow
@@commander3494 still, 75 meters per second is equal to 75 blocks per second which is 8-9 chunks of lateral movement per second ignoring the chunks around the player, that’s going to heavily stress any lesser system into submission with ease
@@MegaMiley would it load All the chunks or would it just lord ever 4th because it technically never enters the others?
@@Jupue It would try to load all of them as it tries to load a certain radius around the player, plus each second has 20 game ticks so it would be in every individual chunk as well for a certain amount of time
@@Jupue Quick maths:
75 blocks/second / 16 blocks/chunk = 4.6875 chunks/second
Default server load distance is 10 chunks, which means the player loads an area 21 chunks across (the one they're in plus 10 in each direction)
4.8875 * 21 = *_98.4375_*_ chunks loaded per second on average_
A dedicated new rail type was one of the first things I thought of when I saw the experimental minecart speed changes. Far too many things rely on the current minecart speed for a universal speed cap adjustment. Having either a new rail type *or* a new minecart type would allow players to have the best of both worlds, allowing for faster traversal via minecart *and* consistent speed for complex contraptions.
Personally, I think a new rail type would allow for more flexibility in builds; but even just a minecart variant with a higher speed cap would be a big step forward.
1:31 roll the credits
wait this is actually such a good idea, i loved the physics and copper rail ideas
i've never been so interested in minecarts
>The world is subdivided into cubic meter volumes 0:59
Alright cubicmeter, I see you. I see you.
I want those copper rails so bad now.
13:57 "yup, that's me. You might be wondering how I got into this situation"
Honestly some of the best constructive criticism and suggestions of the experimental features I've seen, really hope Mojang listens to folks like you about this
You know, I usually I don’t like technical player’s solutions to things (because they tend to be stupidly complicated and out of reach), this one is actually a pretty cool one. Specially the rust part for different speeds. It’s pretty intuitive and easy to understand.
However, this relies on Mojang doing any work to add new things to the game, which they are deadly allergic to. My guess is that they won’t bother to add a new block in just a minor update.
It's not a minor update, these experimental features could be for 1.22 for all we know
Thinking about it, I think the best solution aside adding a new block is to make minecarts work the same as always unders certain speed, and only start doing their funky redstone-breaking stuff when over that speed. You won’t be using long, fast tracks in redstone either-way.
@@jotasietesiete4397seeing how the bundle is going, it could be planned for 1.25, if at all xD
@@AlextheLordofFire no, the redstone-breaking isn't intentional or fixable, it's because of the overall design of the game
a hopper minecart checks above it once every 1/20 of a second
if a hopper minecart moves faster than 20 blocks per second, it ends up moving past some of the containers without checking them
this is because *everything* in minecraft runs 20 times per second
@@lilyalexander963 yeah, I’ve seen the same video. What I’m saying is that if Minecraft speed was made to only reach that speed of over one block per tick after a certain distance through acceleration (and also just switch on and off some other functions which might break redstone) it would work still nicely with redstone contraptions which’s rail lines don’t typically extend more than 20 meters. The only problem would be regulating the pickups in continuous lines with many containers, but I feel like if implemented correctly (big “if” btw), having some distance between powered rails could still keep that maximum of meter per tick, let’s say for example five blocks. Any less than five blocks between powered rails, and you start building up speed again. I see this as the laziest solution Mojang could go with if they cannot be bothered to add a block.
4:10 - that's really cool! I never knew this was possible
8:03 400m/s??? so minecarts can currently go supersonic? lmfao
0:35 What do you mean by "Mojang wants to change minecarts from being slow and precise"..? Minecart aren't precise now, and since when does Mojang want to make minecarts not precise?
By precise; they were specifically talking about its function with redstone contraptions, but yeah I don't get why he has to say as if the devs are specifically changing every function of Minecarts when all they did that could even remotely affect the "slow and precise" part is by introducing a gamerule for modifying the max speed.
By the way, some things were fixed in the latest snapshot. Carts don't clip to the center of the block; they are diagonal on curved tracks again; and they don't phase through blocks
Really hope mojang considers the copper rail idea. Builders would get fast rails for transport and rollercoasters and stuff as well as cool degrading rails for stuff like old mineshafts and such. Redstoneers would get rails that move a precise and convenient speed, and have rails that can transport faster.
The easiest solution imo is to just have different speed limits for different minecart types. Just have the hopper minecarts limited to their default 8 value and speed up the regular minecarts
14:27 I suggest a beacon like structure placed around rails, a hyperloop that would boost the Minecart to ridiculous speeds
7:25
aerospace engineers being neglected
Best way to make minecarts faster (in my opinion):
Copper rail idea suggested in this video
Special types of rails that have more shallow turns/curves (like a real life train track) instead of a sudden 90 degree turn to avoid derailing but still have turns
acceleration and max speed as mentioned in this video
a bit controversial but rails should wear out over time if minecarts are constantly going fast over them
more rail types to allow for loops etc for cool rollercoasters
minecart trains, which are just loads of minecarts joined in a line (like train/rollercoaster carriages)
9:30 Desmos jumpscare 😨
This was so good. Great ideas and sugestions for Mojang!
Bro isn't cooking, he's preparing an entire buffet.
Ever since seeing this minecart snapshot i have always believed that the solution would've resided in allowing the player to "overcome" the old speed limit by combining the minecart and a gold ingot inside the smithing table - thus ensuring backwards compatibility with the old minecart mechanics but, if i have to be honest, i am extremely intrigued by the idea of using copper rails as a speed control mechanism in the game for that would not only allow for new farm designs that were not possible before but also it would allow creators to make more realistic and immersive rollecoasters! I absolutely endorse this concept and i would love to see it in a upcoming snapshot!
Wow! I've always loved your content. But now going into things like fluid dynamics, that's just combining all the things I love. And really smart solutions to the issues.
First 10 seconds of the video:
Casually launching a villager into the Sun
I love the copper rail suggestions! Great video!!
Came for Minecraft, Stayed for aero dynamics
1:41 creeper combusted lol
6:30 yoooo, now THATS innovative!
i love you for simple reasons.
You explains the game mecanics, it's changes, the problems it poses, AND you give a potential solution that makes sense within the game logic.
I like how it slowly feels more and more like an april fools vid
The changes proposed in this video are so intuitive and so right! I hope Mojang is lurking here somewhere and taking notes, as I'd love to see this implemented into vanilla. :)
i just love how the redstone community fixes things that mojang took months to get to experimental, in a few days XD the good thing is, mojang knows this and with these updates they heavily rely on our feedback. so thanks Cubic - copper Rails !!!!!!!
10:35 I'm wondering if this is going too far
Naaahhhh it's probably fine
Also this video kinda turns into a Game Theory episode with all the mathematic graphs on physics of a object that exists in a unrealistic video game
I believe the minecraft speed should be the same as currently, so 8b/s, but add a new very costly powered rail which is 10 times faster, at 80b/s (this would remove the need of piston bolt and will bring back minecarts to the competition of elytras and boats on blue ice). And also, make so the furnace minecraft speed can be modified by the player or restone components dynamically between 1b/s to 16b/s.
3:45 it wouldve been so funny to start talking in slow motion
I love your ideas. I hope Mojang takes at least *some* of them on board. Having to manage cornering speed would be fun and educational; a definite plus for the game.
8:49 This is only true for turbulent flow, what it probably would be edit: no, it's not that easy as first is laminar flow, which has a more minecraft-like formula
The linear relation is only considered for ideal cases where the flow regime remains laminar for large velocity scales. In this case turbulence is going to take over very rapidly meaning the quadratic relation is a good enough approximation for the laminar regime before it goes turbulent.
@@cubicmetre I think it's not for large scales, but when there is laminar flow. But yeah, your system would be better then current minecraft. I'm also a fan of realistic rotation, shouldn't be that hard after all, at least with a constant moment of inertia
I love the rails idea and was thinking the same thing as you about having multiple rails for different speeds. Love the over the top look at carts you did though, really funny but also something id love to see for MC. the roller coasters I used to build when I first was playing with minecarts back in the day would be epic with a cart system like this haha
When mojang doesn't do this I would greatly appreciate a mod for this
Love this idea! It solves the best of both worlds, and creates a cool new use for copper in technical builds! I’m not sure about the derailing option though, as a normal player would not expect a Minecraft to derail. That might be fun for a technical player, but I think standard players wouldn’t want to use them.
1:06 Metres lol, fair enough 😂
Devs needs to see this!
Somebody please contact them.
Fun fact: minecart is more aero-dynamic than a cybertruck.
(or not, I have no idea :3)
4:16 "So the game is essentially lying to you about where an entity is in any given frame to create the illusion of continuous motion"
So kinda like quantum mechanics...
i could have seen that coming....
6:26 the moment I noticed the music is literally epic Hungry Humphrey 💀💀💀💀
Making the speed 20 is good right? For hopperminecarts.
Great take, I loved most of the ideas you suggested.
Bro turned it into a science video.
I like how you give a bunch of perfectly viable and reasonable solutions to minecarts for Minecraft; can’t argue with reason
Also for the new redstone changes maybe they should just add a variant of redstone dust that doesn't have all the block updates.
Bluestone
Could be something like a copper cable
I always wondered why they never implemented a gunpowder "trail" that you could place just like redstone and use to burn things or light TNT like a cartoon. I know it doesn't solve the redstone problem, but this comment reminded me of that idea.
Ok at first I was going along with the copper rail for shits and giggles but you've convinced me. Your proposed changes (sounds aside) would be incredible!
yooo new cubicmetre upload
This is absolutely genius!!
I really really wish Mojang will apply this!!
the copper rails idea is CRAZY
sad mojang probably won't listen
Despite the fact that they just took feedback from 24w33a directly to 24w34a with these experimental features, but go off.
These are very well thought out suggestions. Thanks for the video.
I know it's a Minecraft video but I don't think you did a great job explaining how a linear recurrence relation and a quadratic differential equation behave. I found the bit comparing their graphs on desmos confusing especially because they are drag forces so the higher the values the more they slow you down. I don't think it is initiative to someone who hasn't dealt with recurrence relations before or someone who isn't familiar with drag (as the 2 equations are shown side by side despite one being a force equation and the other being a velocity recurrence relation).
I think it would have made more sense to compare the resulting velocity curves (i.e. solving both and plotting the resulting function or just iteratively generating the values) like you showed briefly.
The velocity and acceleration curves are what makes it feel natural not the order of one part of the recurrence relation.
Overall great video and I really like the idea for a variable copper powered rail.
Edit:
Haven't done this maths for a while but I believe the solution to Minecraft's model is
v=D*P(1-D^t)/(1-D)
I don't think your model has a solution (or atleast not one easy enough for me to find because it is a quadratic first order recurrence relation) so you would have to use an approximation and compare their curves.
Those are really nice ideas ! I love the copper rails. I think the thing is we all want faster and fun minecarts (even as technical players), but precise ones too, and these kind of changes are really hard to balance...I hope Mojang will see this kind of videos and take some of those good solutions. I want them to stop changing redstone though...they already broke update suppression which was only something technical players were interested in and it was already not easy to do...they need to stop !
*3:45** Minecraft has facestabs?* 🤔
I really like your idea, both the oxidized copper variants and the "unlimited" speed powered rails seem really interesting. I feel like both could open so many possibilites, if done properly in consistent and predictable manner.
Approximately 8,975,738,256,025,374,000,000,000,000,000 tennis balls could fit inside the Sun, assuming perfect packing and no wasted space.
12:03 hearing that will never not be funny for me
6:31 minor typo, reputation ruined
Stenghs😂
2:40 isn't that what waterlogged rails are for?
on second thoughts lightly weathered cut copper minecart rail stairs sounds like a good idea
11:14 wich software
Ansys 2024 R2. The name is in the top right corner the whole time
He's looking for a job as a real engineer, but is also roasting mojang about how the game phisics should be made, and that their equasions are wrong XD
This seems like the perfect addition and your well put together reasoning behind the changes you proposed could very well make Mojang consider implementing them.
1:00 can’t believe he gave a shout out to cubic meter, I hope they do a collab
this is a great analysis of the new change, while also giving some great ideas to balance the technical and average player base
Great to see cubic still has access to his student ansys license, and is using it for a monumentally important purpose. Loving the work!
First time when ive fully supported all the suggested ideas, these ideas are brilliant.
The speed increase is also something that will mostly affect people tampering with their gameplay with commands. So it will mostly not affect people playing "vanilla".
What really needs to change imo is adding a sort of wagon system where you can link carts, the ability to make crossroads, adding braking rails that can also launch a cart again on power (like your copper rails), the ability to use different fuels than coal that might add more speed and making them more immersive in general. Something I'd also be fond of would be allowing players, just like in boats, to have two seats in an empty cart. Functional ones could still only take one type of block and storage ones could maybe take a double chest instead then.
perfect solution?
edit: this was actually a phenomenal video