it's not entirely made clear in the song, and Gigi does their best to highlight it, but the crew opened the bag when they had Ithaca _in sight_ they were. so. close. to home.
@@SantosoWijayaI don’t think she killed herself, but she definitely died from the heartbreak. Her son, her baby boy was *so close,* so close to finally getting home and being in her reach again- only to be swept away
My favourite part of the Odysseus didn't get to Epic, but I need you to know that in the book, when Odysseus finds out his crew opened the bag, he thought of throwing himself into the sea instead of being surrounded by these idiots. 😂
I mean, usually in a musical there is still regular talking and acting between the songs, so maybe that part'll get added before Ruthlesness (ironic considering the events).
Jay actually said that they were called Winions and confirmed the lotus eaters were Winions who ate lotus and got stuck on the island. So… Winions all the way down.
Considering that the fans are all called winions does that mean we’re winions that just like got stuck our world I guess? I’d be fine with that actually. Winions forever!!
17:51 It's probably because Eurylochus, Odysseus' right-hand man, questioned him in front of all the soldiers on the boat instead of making it a private talk. This planted the seed of doubt on whether they could trust Odysseus if his right hand didn't.
He might also be acting erratic and paranoid after so many days without sleep, which may have just watered that seed into something far more dangerous.
The worst part of this point of the Odyssey is that before the crew opened the bag with he storm, THEY WERE ALMOST HOME and then got reset to the land of giants Gigi included that bit of trivia by having Aeolus catch sight of Ithaca and then of Odysseus' ship, by seemingly the same distance away
@@mrc.tr.2878 Jorge confirmed that Poseidon sent the storm! When he says "I mean, you totally could have avoided all this," the melody to Storm is playing in the background :) th-cam.com/video/kyAjuMF-pRs/w-d-xo.html
One common missconception, when they said "you're heading to the Land of the Giants" a lot of people think that they are back to the island of the cyclops, but no, cyclops and giants are different beings, the second ones are the Laestrygonians, ALSO children of Poseidon and part of the ensemble of Ruthlessness
Yeah, they're also who killed most of the men in the original Odyssey iirc, rather than them dying to Poseidon directly. Unfortunately there's like 1 animatic out there that includes them so most people don't know about them unless they've done deep dives into Jorge's videos about making the musical.
@@alexeysimushov4971 BrittPowelPixel's includes their take on them. They aren't the way you'd usually imagine, and are done as giant water cyclops, but it's the only version of them I've seen at all.
I always took the reason Telemachus' eyes are crossed out is because Odyesseus doesn't know what he looks like because he's been gone basically his entire life
loving Mortius having just like. Pavlovian reactions to Epic references now. Casper says "Done for" and Mortius has to basically restrain himself so he doesn't burst out laughing. incredible vibes.
I AM SORRY OKAY I DIDNT SEE THE GIANT TRIDENT ON THE ISLAND I KNOW IM STUPID AF YOU CAN STOP MAKING FUN OF ME NOW :DDD edit - gigi saw the video, I am so embarrassed hahahahah
I've never heard the phrase "semantic bleaching" before but as someone with a completely casual interest in linguistics I'm so excited to learn more about it. Thanks!
@@emmakinzian539 basically from what I know I may be wrong but it’s how words change and loose intensity, like how awesome went from something that inspires awe to just something good. Though I’m probably not doing it justice if you want to know more just look it up.
22:42 to paraphrase overly sarcastic studios “they might’ve been ten feet from home when Odysseus’s idiot crew suddenly thinks the bag has gold in it and they get blown back to the Aeolian island”
"Land of the giants" is a nod to the original Odyssey, where the Laestrygones/Laestrygonians are an island of cannibal giants that sink all but one of the Ithacan ships with thrown boulders. They're replaced by Poseidon in ETM, but still get this one line.
If I recall, Aeolus is still male in the musical, hence why Odysseus uses the term "god", its just that Jorge felt that this vocalist suited the airy nature of a wind god best, which I frankly agree with.
Odysseus also called Aeolus "him" in Luck Runs Out, so I assume he/him pronouns are right. And I prefer it that way, we could use more fem-presenting male characters ;P
Wait... I just realised something: Full Speed Ahead plays before Storm. When the bag is opened we get Storm FIRST and THEN Full Speed Ahead. Almost as if the story told in the music is GOING BACKWARDS LIKE BEING BLOWN OFF CORSE SO CLOSE TO HOME
Huh, if you think about it, athena, uses piano, which is a string instrument, and one of her traits is weaving(in fact she curses arachne for competing with her), which if you squint, the insides of a piano looks like a loom. Also tactician, bow, string, you get it.
@@voidfloof Beat me to it, they're keys but i can absolutely see an argument for them being string instruments! But they aren't formally considered that.
When he mentioned Hades, I could only think that Poseidon was a god of the underworl beforr Hades even existed, alongside the Wanaso being Demeter and Kore - Persephone.
Yeah!! I think about that so often because of the river of Styx. Makes sense that the entrance to the underworld is water. And also the fact that drowning is such a gruesome way to die, like it had to be caused by the domain of the god of the dead himself. Not to mention that the bodies couldn’t be retrieved, so you could easily imagine them sinking directly into the underworld. And yknow, ocean’s a deep, dark and scary place. It all adds up
One parallel I see between Epic and Hamilton is that Odysseus treats Eurylochus how Alexander Hamilton treats Aaron Burr. Friendly when he's useful, but can't handle any pushback.
Except that I'd say Aaron Burr was much more entitled and antagonistic for no reason while Eurylochus at least has reasons to doubt his captain now, and his insubornation has grounds. Aaron Burr was just a little bitch mad that Hamilton got stuff while he didn't by just sitting on his ass.
@@mayadargeon2172 I disagree, there's definitely a difference between the two characters. Burr wasn't Hamilton's subordinate so him pushing back was very different than Eurylocus. But Hamilton openly endorsed Burr's political rival - who Hamilton was known to have hated - and went on record tearing Burr down. And when Burr called him out on it and asked for an apology Hamilton effectively said, "nah fam. I meant every rude thing I said." There was a lot more there than Burr just being butthurt about Hamilton's success. He had very real reason to assume Hamilton was actively standing in his way, because Hamilton WAS actively standing in his way.
@@yuukinoyuki9064 Oh, there's definitely a lot of differences. I agree, except for the fact that Burr spent the entire musical being salty about him. Like, Hamilton didn't decide to wake up one day and trash on this man for no reason, he used to admire the guy, before learning that he was spineless. Burr spent the entirety of part 1 complaining that he doesn't get anything because Hamilton is doing everything, he doesn't realize that his own inaction is the problem. He wants to be in the room where it happens, but without earning it, because he needs to play it safe, while also resenting Hamilton who's getting things by taking risks. Why would Hamilton even support Burr politically, when he's not interested in Burr's ideas and Burr spent the entire time making it clear that he thinks of Hamilton as an opportunist, and thus, lesser than him?
@@mayadargeon2172 Interesting, that's a very different interpretation of Burr than mine. I do think Burr spends most of Act 1 internally salty at Hamilton because Burr sees it as him playing by the rules and getting nowhere, and Hamilton breaking the rules and getting somehwhere. But their relationship is still presented as friendly throughout the first Act. Burr liked Hamilton enough to attend his wedding, and trusted him enough to open up about Theodosia. And Hamilton respected Burr enough to ask for his help with the Federalist papers, etc. Then we hit Act 2 and things become much more antagonistic, but I've never interpreted "Room Where it Happens" as Burr wanting to achieve something while doing nothing. To me that song marks the moment the two of them actually swap tactics. Hamilton follows Burrs advice, "What are you going to do?/ I guess I'm going to finally have to listen to you." And then Burr follows Hamilton's advice and actively pursues his political goals. Running first for Senator and then for President, even openly campaigning for it. "Burr, is there anything you wouldn't do?/No, I'm chasing what I want, and guess what?/What?/I learned that from you." I understand why Hamilton, who values open discourse, wouldn't back a Presidential candidate that he didn't know the policies of. But to me Burr's anger was because he DIDN'T do nothing, he spent years working towards this goal, doing what Hamilton told him to do back at that wedding - chasing what he wanted. And when it was right in front of him, the person he considered a friend, stood in his way. And when he called that friend out on it, the guy wouldn't even apologize. Burr is obviously in the wrong in the musical. He realizes his pride is the issue by the end of it all, "I should have known the World was wide-enough for both Hamilton and me." But his anger/hurt goes a bit deeper than just envy of a successful friend. At least in my interpretation.
I'm glad my instant love of Aeolus has been validated by others expressing the exact same idea. I just really wish she was in Epic more. Aeolus is one of my favorite characters. In Epic, she's just straight up my favorite. That's part of why I gave her a whole character arc and a bunch of growth in my own fanfic.
@@scorpioblueeyes7388 Not exactly. It's basically a version of the story where I put the characters from another franchise into the position of the Epic characters when I found similarities in their personalities. The story swaps perspectives a lot, but Aeolus is a pretty major character and we see her perspective a lot-how she grows to understand mortals more through an uncommon situation and as she does, she starts to feel guilty about the trap she put Odysseus in, before becoming determined to make it up to him. Around halfway through the story a device is introduced which can trap minor gods/goddesses and it gets used on Aeolus, trapping her inside. After she is freed, it becomes clear that not only was she trapped, she was in indescribeable pain during it. She wants the device destroyed. However, when a scene similar to "Get In The Water" happens and Odysseus is forced to give himself up to Poseidon after a long time of running, Aeolus completes her character arc by intentionally reentering the device so that she can go under the water (which she can't as a wind goddess). Odysseus grabs the device before Poseidon kills him and opens it again, allowing Aeolus to blow him away from Poseidon and back to land. This ends up hurting Aeolus quite a lot, but it fulfills her character arc as she finally makes it back up to Odysseus after putting him in the trap she did. This ended up being a much larger explanation than I intended.
I think that was the game. She sowed so much distrust in Odysseus that he didn't rely on anyone, especially people he could rely on. I think if he had split the guarding with Eurylochus they would've made it home. As I read it up to this point Eurylochus has been NOTHING but worried for Odysseus and faithful to him. Yes they had some discourse in the previous song, but my gut tells me Eurylochus wouldn't have opened the bag if he was in charge of it while Odysseus would rest. It was not a game Odysseus was meant to win, pretty sure Aeolus would never let him win. She's not a benevolent god, she's a playful, mischievious one. Odysseus fell for her trap.
@@AshtailFoxclaw See - in myth he was absolutely meant to win - so much so that when he comes back he says "Wow if you didn't get home with everything I gave you the gods must really hate you. I'm not stupid enough to go against them that way" (Because the idea was meant to have come from Poseidon)
If I remember correctly in original story, the men open the bag because they were so close at home and they were very impatients. Also you have to remember that the gods like to play with the mortals and they wanted test the heros during their quests
What I've heard is that The Winions are little creatures with Aolus, however some of them ate the lotus fruit and are now called the lotus eaters (same creature but they are separate from Aolus now) and then we the fanbase are called the winions because we think they are devious little minions and we are devious little minions so obviously that should be the fan name.
I know it's a creative desicion from Gigi, but I really like how the crewmate with the missing eye that opens the bag is also one of the ones turned into a pig by Circe in the puppeteer animatic. Odysseus went to save the man who literally pulled him away from his wife and son instead of leaving him for dead. I thought that was a cool character choice
The way I imagine the winions they are undercover as the creatures in the song to give a little more context. Like with the Lotus Eaters when they say “a cave” one of them says “a scary cave”. But either the characters there don’t hear it or they ignore it, because they repeat the “a cave” instead of “a scary cave”.
I got my juice and snacks ready for this!🥤🍪 While im at it, i might as well point out some stuff i noticed from the song: •In the scene when Odysseus is talking to the men about the bag being filled with wind, you can barely hear the storm motif on the background •When Penelope is telling Odysseus to "keep his eyes open", you can hear a male voice behind that 'might' be Telemachus's. I say 'might' because we haven't gotten confirmation on his singer, so having atleast a posible voice makes me happy (I love my baby boy!💙)
*edit: not mortius low-key losing it at **29:56* 😂😭 *apollo's favorite target right there* I headcanon strongly that actually *Eurylochus* was the one who opened the bag, but he did it to show his comrades that there was no treasure, and their doubt in Odysseus was unfounded - the doubt he *himself* had sown. and then he has to deal with the guilt of causing the entire PJO Sea of Monsters-worthy detour.
Excited for the nest video! …. wait mortius have you seen gigi’s interpretations of “Ruthlessnesses” & “Monster”. I would really recommend giving them a view, if they might not work as videos.
I know he's seen Ruthlessness (I don't think his original reaction is anywhere but he does watch it with Casper on Casper's channel), but as far as I know he hasn't seen any full animatics for the Underworld saga yet
Fun, maybe not so fun fact. In the Odyssey, when his men opened that bag, he considered jumping off the ship right then and there. My man was not impressed.
30:25 Jorge takes a lot of inspiration from anime and video games! If you end up watching the behind the scenes stuff he goes into it a couple of times :)
Just got back from CF’s channel and your reaction to ruthlessness and wanted to point out that right after the “you could’ve killed my son” line the “storm melody” is played by a trumpet (which is the main instrument for Poseidon according to Jorge) though trumpets were more prominent in Storm which to me signifies that Poseidon was intentionally or unintentionally causing the rough waters possibly waiting for a time to strike. So those trumpets may have signified his looming presence. Also, that “pack of wolves” line is so good and (warning if you haven’t seen the list of all the songs in the full musical and don’t want a sneak peak stop reading :) there is a song in a later saga titled “Little wolf” and I wonder if you can guess who that’s referring to.
Yes! This is my favourite song too, for different reasons though. As a dancer, I’m in LOVE with the orchestration. It has so much choreographic potential (this song and “that boppy one from the next Saga 😉”
Casper talking about the gods of death/ the dead being all playful and charming but then turn ruthless just made me go into a full on rant on how hades wasnt like that at all in the mythology xd
I picture this sound version of Aeolus with like a 10 year old scampy kid vibe, kind of like Aang from avatar. The voice being just ambiguous gender-wise.
What i find fascinating is that, not a single man died until Polyphemus, and Athena said he failed her test. As well as Poseidon's line in his song about being gracious to the crew, which would have been the clear skies until Odysseus failed Athena's test and angered Poseidon in keeping his kid in agony, or just dying a slow and gruesome death from blood loss or infection Like Storm comes RIGHT after My Goodbye, and even if Athena is still watching, she isn't acting as that safety buffer anymore from other gods for the army as a whole And the way the crew acts after loosing a man, they would have lost the war if that happened during Troy. Zeus gave Ody a foe who wouldn't fight back, and Athena put stakes in her test, you lost your men, take this life and see another day And he failed, giving Polyphemus his name, and triggering the Ocean saga
21:10 id like to note that if polites was still alive that wouldn’t have mattered and he could’ve trusted polites because polites doesn’t care for treasure so he wouldn’t have opened the bag or he would’ve trusted Odysseus
13:00 all of them are winions! Winions are the wind-minions you see in KYFC, but the lotus eaters are also winions, but winions who ate lotus and now hang out there! Additionally, winions are the name of the fanbase
The Land of The Giants is actually not where the Cyclopes live. The Giants are known by another name, one that you should be familiar with since you've read Percy Jackson. Annabeth refers to them as Canadians when Percy asks her to repeat the name, since it is kinda weird. The Giants are also called "Laestrygonians". They are also children of Poseidon, and were the ones who killed the majority of Odysseus' crew in the original text. They also act as backing vocals for Poseidon in Ruthlessness, which is a contrast to the vocals created magically by other gods, since these are more prominent, and deeper in tone to other god's choruses and harmonies.
Winions are definitely not just the lil guys for Aeolus. Jorge himself has referred to the Lotus Eaters as winions as well! He said they're original to Epic specifically, which I think is really neat.
I love how the "full speed ahead" after storm comes back in is adding by the wingmen and not the crew. I dispise the second in commond. I bet he was the one who shot the sheep in the cave too! 😂😂
Ok, haven’t finished the video yet but that “Sometimes killing is a must” is such great foreshadowing of what Aoelius is really playing here and what Odysseus is unknowingly putting on the line. He didn’t kill someone and it’s about to bite him in the butt.
Keep Your Friends Close is one of the few songs I’ve put on repeat by itself. Most of the time I tend to group a few songs together if I want to listen to the same ones over and over, but this song has such range that it almost has the same feeling as when I group a few songs together
I don’t know if you have picked out which Underworld Saga animatics the two of you will be watching but if you haven’t, for the Underworld song I recommend TheeArteest’s animatic! It’s very very good! It’s my favorite out of the ones I’ve seen.
My interpretation of Aeolus is that his avatar/manifestation is a child. The personality is very childlike, with the laughter and the "Let's play a game!" Femme vocalists are often chosen to voice childlike character because an adult femme voice is very easy to project as a masc child. IIRC, Aelous is also one of the youngest of the gods.
"Winions" was a term that Jorge used to describe Aeolus' creatures, it is completely made up by him and not derived from The Odyssey. Since conception they have always looked like Mircsy's "lotus eaters" depiction (Jay used them as the first mascot of the first merch drop, well before any full songs were released), even though in this animatic, their original design isn't actually used by Gigi. Since, Jay has embraced the winions design being used as lotus eaters, too.
13:16 you’re correct. These winion creatures here are the same creatures we meet, (mirscy’s work in progress ‘keep your friends close’ video shows the same design from their cyclops saga animatics) eating the lotus fruit in the cyclops saga (friends Polites thought he could trust…). but the fanbase adopted the name because we’re Winions in our own right /lh
I feel the same way! I love this song so much! It’s my favorite song and I’m glad it’s getting some good recognition. You two are so great, amazing video ya’ll! The outrage at him never having seen Hamilton is hilarious! I totally feel that XD
I have also seen some speculate that Aeolus' Winnions and the Lotus Eaters are the same species, the Lotus Eaters are just Winnions that ate Lotus. Both are mischievous little buggers at the very least.
The land of the giants isn’t the home of the cyclops, it’s the home of cannibal giants called “laestrygonians.” In the myth, they were the ones to actually destroy the rest of Odysseus ships with huge boulders, not Poseidon. Poseidon didn’t even meet Odysseus face to face I don’t think
This song is a great combination of "Pandoras Box" and "Doubt comes in" from Hadestown(Eurydice and Orpheus) Ultimately curiosity being the biggest human issue and trust. ALSO "The end justifies the means" is a COMMON occurence in these songs. How many times is it stated "when we do this, we can go home" It happens in polyphemus/remember them, it happens in luck runs out, it happens in horse and the infant, in cerce saga, in underworld, and leads to its ultimate result in the thunder saga. Its always one more kill, i just have to do this to get home. And hes STILL not home
The wind gods in Greek myth are pretty ambiguous, and have been depicted as both male and female, except Zephyr(West wind) and Boreas(North wind) who are male
Love how excited you are about this song Mortius! This one and Ruthlessness are equal tied in first place for me in Epic so I totally get what you mean (and I really do love Gigi's animatics as well)
I think Eurylochus was the one that opened the bag, or at least had something to do with it. That could be what he’s feeling guilty about in “Puppeteer”.
That is absolutely my understanding of that guilt. I also feel like Odysseus knows, which is why he shut it down. He literally couldn't deal with the verbalization of the betrayal.
i know it’s a little late, but you were talking about different animatics, and I SOOOO wish you guys could have watched mircsy’s “my goodbye”, it has so so so much depth and emotion and it is so powerful.
I'm not sure how much thought Jorge put into it when writing this saga, but Odysseus isn't the kind of king Europe became familiar with from the Middle Ages forward. While he is the son of a line of kings, their territory is a small rocky island near Greece. Such a king is not a king because he's acknowledged and supported by most of the nobility and even the religious authorities; on the throne because of politics, familial succession and social contracts. Kings in those days were not uncommonly (descended from) warlords who managed to conquer a bunch of land, declared themselves king and managed to keep that land and leadership. Odysseus is standing in rank above his men, but he's not the 'blue blood ordained by god' kind of king, the one you don't dare to disobey in case that angers Zeus. Which is why even in Homer's Odyssee the crew could be said to disobey his very clear orders (even though that still makes them incredibly incompetent and stupid).
7:26 YES FINALLY SOMEONE MADE THE CORRECT ASSOCIATION FOR AEOLUS' LITTLE CLOUD
NO WAY 😍🤩 Casper is too smart for our own good
OMGGGGGGGGGGGGG NO WAYYYYYYYYY
Sending this to Casper ASAP
Oh my gods your here I love your style keep going your amazing!!!
Lakitu!
“Where is Poseidon?!?” Literally five seconds before meeting Poseidon is hysterical😂
:D
it's not entirely made clear in the song, and Gigi does their best to highlight it, but the crew opened the bag when they had Ithaca _in sight_
they were. so. close. to home.
And Ithaca had been in sight for days! Odysseus mentions it in Storm. They must have been incredibly close to landing by then.
I think also Odysseus’ mom sighted his ship got swept up by the storm so she despaired and killed herself?
@@SantosoWijayaI don’t think she killed herself, but she definitely died from the heartbreak. Her son, her baby boy was *so close,* so close to finally getting home and being in her reach again- only to be swept away
@@SantosoWijaya In some versions yes, she sees the storm take his ship and assumes he died in the storm so kills herself to be with him
@@agatha6999 yeah in some she walks into the water to be with him :(
My favourite part of the Odysseus didn't get to Epic, but I need you to know that in the book, when Odysseus finds out his crew opened the bag, he thought of throwing himself into the sea instead of being surrounded by these idiots. 😂
I remember reading that scene in the Odyssey! Buddy was so done with them 😂
And then he goes and sob in his cabin lmaoo
I didn't remember that, that's hilarious.
I mean, usually in a musical there is still regular talking and acting between the songs, so maybe that part'll get added before Ruthlesness (ironic considering the events).
Jay actually said that they were called Winions and confirmed the lotus eaters were Winions who ate lotus and got stuck on the island.
So… Winions all the way down.
Considering that the fans are all called winions does that mean we’re winions that just like got stuck our world I guess? I’d be fine with that actually. Winions forever!!
Didn't he say that it wasn't initially the plan, but he liked the fan interpretation so much he made it canon?
@@Dawn_the_dragon i think of us as something more of honorary winions ✨✨
@@Dawn_the_dragon our lotus was listening to this musical :33
21:07 - “he probably would have trusted Eurylicus to gaurd the bag” …………..that hits different now that we know who actually opened the bag 😭
17:51 It's probably because Eurylochus, Odysseus' right-hand man, questioned him in front of all the soldiers on the boat instead of making it a private talk. This planted the seed of doubt on whether they could trust Odysseus if his right hand didn't.
He might also be acting erratic and paranoid after so many days without sleep, which may have just watered that seed into something far more dangerous.
and considering the song has this whole theme of distrust...yes I think the idea is they are starting to lose faith in him
The worst part of this point of the Odyssey is that before the crew opened the bag with he storm, THEY WERE ALMOST HOME and then got reset to the land of giants
Gigi included that bit of trivia by having Aeolus catch sight of Ithaca and then of Odysseus' ship, by seemingly the same distance away
it like in shoots and ladders and you land at that one slide that drops you alll the way to the bottom
Well its a big posibblty that poseidon send that storm in first place
So maybe they werent even supposed to pass that storm
@@mrc.tr.2878 They would have- Poseidon doesn't control the winds, only the sea itself.
@@mrc.tr.2878 Jorge confirmed that Poseidon sent the storm! When he says "I mean, you totally could have avoided all this," the melody to Storm is playing in the background :)
th-cam.com/video/kyAjuMF-pRs/w-d-xo.html
@@Oznerock Poseidon is the god of the sea, storms and earthquake
One common missconception, when they said "you're heading to the Land of the Giants" a lot of people think that they are back to the island of the cyclops, but no, cyclops and giants are different beings, the second ones are the Laestrygonians, ALSO children of Poseidon and part of the ensemble of Ruthlessness
Yeah, they're also who killed most of the men in the original Odyssey iirc, rather than them dying to Poseidon directly.
Unfortunately there's like 1 animatic out there that includes them so most people don't know about them unless they've done deep dives into Jorge's videos about making the musical.
@@feistsorcerer2251 which animatic includes giants? I am interested
@@alexeysimushov4971 BrittPowelPixel's includes their take on them. They aren't the way you'd usually imagine, and are done as giant water cyclops, but it's the only version of them I've seen at all.
Wow, Poseidon fucks
Oh, so odysseus went to canada then? That's a long way for the storm to blow him
I always took the reason Telemachus' eyes are crossed out is because Odyesseus doesn't know what he looks like because he's been gone basically his entire life
loving Mortius having just like. Pavlovian reactions to Epic references now. Casper says "Done for" and Mortius has to basically restrain himself so he doesn't burst out laughing. incredible vibes.
This is the funniest comment actually
Do you have a timestamp for this moment I can’t find it 😆
@@officialmortius just after 29:50
@@izzyliberty8720 thank you!! That’s very funny 🤣
Totally thought the same thing 😂😂😂 Casper is really too smart for his own good and Mortius has to legit hold it all
In
"Ten years, remember that"
Oh, you!
*It's been XX long years!*
*OHH XX LONG YEARS*
Correct! XX is the Roman Numeral format for 20!
I AM SORRY OKAY I DIDNT SEE THE GIANT TRIDENT ON THE ISLAND I KNOW IM STUPID AF YOU CAN STOP MAKING FUN OF ME NOW :DDD
edit - gigi saw the video, I am so embarrassed hahahahah
No we can't 😔
Wet hades
WET HADES
@@officialmortiusWET HADES IS WILD 😭😭😭
Wet Hades
Winions going from specific wind minions to little guys and the fan base is a great example of semantic bleaching in real time.
I've never heard the phrase "semantic bleaching" before but as someone with a completely casual interest in linguistics I'm so excited to learn more about it. Thanks!
@@emmakinzian539 basically from what I know I may be wrong but it’s how words change and loose intensity, like how awesome went from something that inspires awe to just something good. Though I’m probably not doing it justice if you want to know more just look it up.
All Lotus Eaters are Winions but not all Minions are Lotus Eaters
my fav Einstein quote
@@CFEntertains 😂
22:42 to paraphrase overly sarcastic studios “they might’ve been ten feet from home when Odysseus’s idiot crew suddenly thinks the bag has gold in it and they get blown back to the Aeolian island”
"Land of the giants" is a nod to the original Odyssey, where the Laestrygones/Laestrygonians are an island of cannibal giants that sink all but one of the Ithacan ships with thrown boulders. They're replaced by Poseidon in ETM, but still get this one line.
I may be remembering wrong, but I think I heard somewhere that the Poseidon chorus is the laestrygonians
If I recall, Aeolus is still male in the musical, hence why Odysseus uses the term "god", its just that Jorge felt that this vocalist suited the airy nature of a wind god best, which I frankly agree with.
Odysseus also called Aeolus "him" in Luck Runs Out, so I assume he/him pronouns are right. And I prefer it that way, we could use more fem-presenting male characters ;P
Casper thinking Poseidon is Hades is honestly so funny considering Ruthlessness *immediately* starts with chants of his name 😂
Wait... I just realised something:
Full Speed Ahead plays before Storm.
When the bag is opened we get Storm FIRST and THEN Full Speed Ahead. Almost as if the story told in the music is GOING BACKWARDS LIKE BEING BLOWN OFF CORSE SO CLOSE TO HOME
FULL SPEED BEHIND! XD
Huh, if you think about it, athena, uses piano, which is a string instrument, and one of her traits is weaving(in fact she curses arachne for competing with her), which if you squint, the insides of a piano looks like a loom.
Also tactician, bow, string, you get it.
pianos have strings inside them but they are not string instruments, they are keyboard instruments (along with harpischords and organs)
@@voidfloof Beat me to it, they're keys but i can absolutely see an argument for them being string instruments! But they aren't formally considered that.
@@felixhenson9926 they're formally considered percussion instruments because of the little hammers apparently
I personally took Aeolus having a female VO as them being more genderfluid than straight up female, which I feel fits for the wind god, honestly
The Greek gods were known to switch between genders frequently, your observation is spot on.
he does NOT know the reference
When he mentioned Hades, I could only think that Poseidon was a god of the underworl beforr Hades even existed, alongside the Wanaso being Demeter and Kore - Persephone.
Yeah!! I think about that so often because of the river of Styx. Makes sense that the entrance to the underworld is water. And also the fact that drowning is such a gruesome way to die, like it had to be caused by the domain of the god of the dead himself. Not to mention that the bodies couldn’t be retrieved, so you could easily imagine them sinking directly into the underworld. And yknow, ocean’s a deep, dark and scary place. It all adds up
I am always sooo impressed by Gigi’s KYFC animatic. Especially the bridge with the dreaming Odysseus.
One parallel I see between Epic and Hamilton is that Odysseus treats Eurylochus how Alexander Hamilton treats Aaron Burr. Friendly when he's useful, but can't handle any pushback.
Also some of the cut songs give major Hamilton vibes.
Except that I'd say Aaron Burr was much more entitled and antagonistic for no reason while Eurylochus at least has reasons to doubt his captain now, and his insubornation has grounds. Aaron Burr was just a little bitch mad that Hamilton got stuff while he didn't by just sitting on his ass.
@@mayadargeon2172 I disagree, there's definitely a difference between the two characters. Burr wasn't Hamilton's subordinate so him pushing back was very different than Eurylocus.
But Hamilton openly endorsed Burr's political rival - who Hamilton was known to have hated - and went on record tearing Burr down. And when Burr called him out on it and asked for an apology Hamilton effectively said, "nah fam. I meant every rude thing I said."
There was a lot more there than Burr just being butthurt about Hamilton's success. He had very real reason to assume Hamilton was actively standing in his way, because Hamilton WAS actively standing in his way.
@@yuukinoyuki9064
Oh, there's definitely a lot of differences. I agree, except for the fact that Burr spent the entire musical being salty about him. Like, Hamilton didn't decide to wake up one day and trash on this man for no reason, he used to admire the guy, before learning that he was spineless. Burr spent the entirety of part 1 complaining that he doesn't get anything because Hamilton is doing everything, he doesn't realize that his own inaction is the problem. He wants to be in the room where it happens, but without earning it, because he needs to play it safe, while also resenting Hamilton who's getting things by taking risks.
Why would Hamilton even support Burr politically, when he's not interested in Burr's ideas and Burr spent the entire time making it clear that he thinks of Hamilton as an opportunist, and thus, lesser than him?
@@mayadargeon2172 Interesting, that's a very different interpretation of Burr than mine.
I do think Burr spends most of Act 1 internally salty at Hamilton because Burr sees it as him playing by the rules and getting nowhere, and Hamilton breaking the rules and getting somehwhere. But their relationship is still presented as friendly throughout the first Act.
Burr liked Hamilton enough to attend his wedding, and trusted him enough to open up about Theodosia. And Hamilton respected Burr enough to ask for his help with the Federalist papers, etc.
Then we hit Act 2 and things become much more antagonistic, but I've never interpreted "Room Where it Happens" as Burr wanting to achieve something while doing nothing.
To me that song marks the moment the two of them actually swap tactics. Hamilton follows Burrs advice, "What are you going to do?/ I guess I'm going to finally have to listen to you." And then Burr follows Hamilton's advice and actively pursues his political goals. Running first for Senator and then for President, even openly campaigning for it. "Burr, is there anything you wouldn't do?/No, I'm chasing what I want, and guess what?/What?/I learned that from you."
I understand why Hamilton, who values open discourse, wouldn't back a Presidential candidate that he didn't know the policies of. But to me Burr's anger was because he DIDN'T do nothing, he spent years working towards this goal, doing what Hamilton told him to do back at that wedding - chasing what he wanted. And when it was right in front of him, the person he considered a friend, stood in his way.
And when he called that friend out on it, the guy wouldn't even apologize.
Burr is obviously in the wrong in the musical. He realizes his pride is the issue by the end of it all, "I should have known the World was wide-enough for both Hamilton and me." But his anger/hurt goes a bit deeper than just envy of a successful friend.
At least in my interpretation.
I'm glad my instant love of Aeolus has been validated by others expressing the exact same idea. I just really wish she was in Epic more.
Aeolus is one of my favorite characters. In Epic, she's just straight up my favorite. That's part of why I gave her a whole character arc and a bunch of growth in my own fanfic.
Like a fanfic of the odyssey from her perspective?
@@scorpioblueeyes7388 Not exactly. It's basically a version of the story where I put the characters from another franchise into the position of the Epic characters when I found similarities in their personalities. The story swaps perspectives a lot, but Aeolus is a pretty major character and we see her perspective a lot-how she grows to understand mortals more through an uncommon situation and as she does, she starts to feel guilty about the trap she put Odysseus in, before becoming determined to make it up to him. Around halfway through the story a device is introduced which can trap minor gods/goddesses and it gets used on Aeolus, trapping her inside. After she is freed, it becomes clear that not only was she trapped, she was in indescribeable pain during it. She wants the device destroyed. However, when a scene similar to "Get In The Water" happens and Odysseus is forced to give himself up to Poseidon after a long time of running, Aeolus completes her character arc by intentionally reentering the device so that she can go under the water (which she can't as a wind goddess). Odysseus grabs the device before Poseidon kills him and opens it again, allowing Aeolus to blow him away from Poseidon and back to land. This ends up hurting Aeolus quite a lot, but it fulfills her character arc as she finally makes it back up to Odysseus after putting him in the trap she did.
This ended up being a much larger explanation than I intended.
That part where wet Hades just yells "ODYSSEUS OF HUDENGARTEN!" is truly the best part of this musical.
Ruthlessness is my favorite song but the way he says “no” at the end of this song was gut reaching. Especially knowing the original story
Your reaction to Casper saying "done for" sent me (because same) 😆
"How did these guys survive?" A combination of luck and divine intervention.
23:00
Is Divine intervention what you seek?
@@VictoriaStarratt I'd continue the lyric, but I don't want to spoil it for either of them. 😂
But if they kept their enemies closer would they ever truly knew who they can trust
"Never really know who you can trust"
Thus, keep your eyes on everyone, trust no one!
That's why you keep them close. So you can keep an eye on them
I think that was the game. She sowed so much distrust in Odysseus that he didn't rely on anyone, especially people he could rely on. I think if he had split the guarding with Eurylochus they would've made it home. As I read it up to this point Eurylochus has been NOTHING but worried for Odysseus and faithful to him. Yes they had some discourse in the previous song, but my gut tells me Eurylochus wouldn't have opened the bag if he was in charge of it while Odysseus would rest. It was not a game Odysseus was meant to win, pretty sure Aeolus would never let him win. She's not a benevolent god, she's a playful, mischievious one. Odysseus fell for her trap.
@@AshtailFoxclaw See - in myth he was absolutely meant to win - so much so that when he comes back he says "Wow if you didn't get home with everything I gave you the gods must really hate you. I'm not stupid enough to go against them that way" (Because the idea was meant to have come from Poseidon)
“Where is Poseidon!?” It might seem crazy what I’m bouta say..
If I remember correctly in original story, the men open the bag because they were so close at home and they were very impatients. Also you have to remember that the gods like to play with the mortals and they wanted test the heros during their quests
The SHEER NUMBER of times Casper has said lyrics that show up later in the show is ASTONISHING
18:07 Yes, he is their king, but he was also their brother in arms for 10 years.
What I've heard is that The Winions are little creatures with Aolus, however some of them ate the lotus fruit and are now called the lotus eaters (same creature but they are separate from Aolus now) and then we the fanbase are called the winions because we think they are devious little minions and we are devious little minions so obviously that should be the fan name.
Every time I listen to this song, I hear "Sometimes sneaking is a must." as "Sometimes singing is a must."
Dude same.
@@fireflyer97 I AM SO GLAD IT'S NOT JUST MY BRAIN
WHAT? ITS SNEAKING?!
@@keithwest1761 Yep, check the wiki.
@@disableddragonborn I believe yall, I just didn’t know. Thanks yall for making me aware of that.
I know it's a creative desicion from Gigi, but I really like how the crewmate with the missing eye that opens the bag is also one of the ones turned into a pig by Circe in the puppeteer animatic. Odysseus went to save the man who literally pulled him away from his wife and son instead of leaving him for dead. I thought that was a cool character choice
HahaHA~
Finally, the cutest character (since Polites) in Epic!
The way I imagine the winions they are undercover as the creatures in the song to give a little more context. Like with the Lotus Eaters when they say “a cave” one of them says “a scary cave”. But either the characters there don’t hear it or they ignore it, because they repeat the “a cave” instead of “a scary cave”.
I got my juice and snacks ready for this!🥤🍪 While im at it, i might as well point out some stuff i noticed from the song:
•In the scene when Odysseus is talking to the men about the bag being filled with wind, you can barely hear the storm motif on the background
•When Penelope is telling Odysseus to "keep his eyes open", you can hear a male voice behind that 'might' be Telemachus's. I say 'might' because we haven't gotten confirmation on his singer, so having atleast a posible voice makes me happy (I love my baby boy!💙)
*edit: not mortius low-key losing it at **29:56* 😂😭 *apollo's favorite target right there*
I headcanon strongly that actually *Eurylochus* was the one who opened the bag, but he did it to show his comrades that there was no treasure, and their doubt in Odysseus was unfounded - the doubt he *himself* had sown. and then he has to deal with the guilt of causing the entire PJO Sea of Monsters-worthy detour.
Oh, that Eurylochus opened it to show the crew is an awesome, heart rending idea, I love it.
Time for the QUEEEEEEEN
😍🤩😍
29:52
Casper: Pretty much _done for_ right?
Mortius: (Must. Not. Spoil. Must. Not. SPOIL.)
SHOW THIS MAN HAMILTON. DO IT.
I plan to :)
Please 😂
Excited for the nest video!
…. wait mortius have you seen gigi’s interpretations of “Ruthlessnesses” & “Monster”. I would really recommend giving them a view, if they might not work as videos.
I know he's seen Ruthlessness (I don't think his original reaction is anywhere but he does watch it with Casper on Casper's channel), but as far as I know he hasn't seen any full animatics for the Underworld saga yet
Gigi's animatic for Monster is hands-down the best one I've seen.
Fun, maybe not so fun fact. In the Odyssey, when his men opened that bag, he considered jumping off the ship right then and there. My man was not impressed.
30:25 Jorge takes a lot of inspiration from anime and video games! If you end up watching the behind the scenes stuff he goes into it a couple of times :)
Just got back from CF’s channel and your reaction to ruthlessness and wanted to point out that right after the “you could’ve killed my son” line the “storm melody” is played by a trumpet (which is the main instrument for Poseidon according to Jorge) though trumpets were more prominent in Storm which to me signifies that Poseidon was intentionally or unintentionally causing the rough waters possibly waiting for a time to strike. So those trumpets may have signified his looming presence.
Also, that “pack of wolves” line is so good and (warning if you haven’t seen the list of all the songs in the full musical and don’t want a sneak peak stop reading :) there is a song in a later saga titled “Little wolf” and I wonder if you can guess who that’s referring to.
Yes! This is my favourite song too, for different reasons though. As a dancer, I’m in LOVE with the orchestration. It has so much choreographic potential (this song and “that boppy one from the next Saga 😉”
Casper talking about the gods of death/ the dead being all playful and charming but then turn ruthless just made me go into a full on rant on how hades wasnt like that at all in the mythology xd
I picture this sound version of Aeolus with like a 10 year old scampy kid vibe, kind of like Aang from avatar. The voice being just ambiguous gender-wise.
What i find fascinating is that, not a single man died until Polyphemus, and Athena said he failed her test. As well as Poseidon's line in his song about being gracious to the crew, which would have been the clear skies until Odysseus failed Athena's test and angered Poseidon in keeping his kid in agony, or just dying a slow and gruesome death from blood loss or infection
Like Storm comes RIGHT after My Goodbye, and even if Athena is still watching, she isn't acting as that safety buffer anymore from other gods for the army as a whole
And the way the crew acts after loosing a man, they would have lost the war if that happened during Troy.
Zeus gave Ody a foe who wouldn't fight back, and Athena put stakes in her test, you lost your men, take this life and see another day
And he failed, giving Polyphemus his name, and triggering the Ocean saga
I love Keep your friends close!
And yes, please do show him Hamilton!
Lol the end 😂 Indeed where is Poseidon? Where could he possibly be!? 😆
I love how when the swearing was censored it's Odysseus saying "what?" (This is my humor now i guess)
*to the tune of Alexander Hamilton:* "Lin-Moana Hamilton!"
21:10 id like to note that if polites was still alive that wouldn’t have mattered and he could’ve trusted polites because polites doesn’t care for treasure so he wouldn’t have opened the bag or he would’ve trusted Odysseus
The lotus eaters are (atleast in fan lore) winions that got addicted to lotus
13:00 all of them are winions! Winions are the wind-minions you see in KYFC, but the lotus eaters are also winions, but winions who ate lotus and now hang out there! Additionally, winions are the name of the fanbase
The Land of The Giants is actually not where the Cyclopes live. The Giants are known by another name, one that you should be familiar with since you've read Percy Jackson. Annabeth refers to them as Canadians when Percy asks her to repeat the name, since it is kinda weird. The Giants are also called "Laestrygonians". They are also children of Poseidon, and were the ones who killed the majority of Odysseus' crew in the original text. They also act as backing vocals for Poseidon in Ruthlessness, which is a contrast to the vocals created magically by other gods, since these are more prominent, and deeper in tone to other god's choruses and harmonies.
Winions are definitely not just the lil guys for Aeolus. Jorge himself has referred to the Lotus Eaters as winions as well! He said they're original to Epic specifically, which I think is really neat.
I love that Caspar caught on to the whole repeating theme of “the end justifies the means” the gods do, even BEFORE he listened to Ruthlessness xD
That "ha ha ha", is a call back to Warrior of the Mind and Odysseus and Athena.
I love how the "full speed ahead" after storm comes back in is adding by the wingmen and not the crew.
I dispise the second in commond. I bet he was the one who shot the sheep in the cave too! 😂😂
Ok, haven’t finished the video yet but that “Sometimes killing is a must” is such great foreshadowing of what Aoelius is really playing here and what Odysseus is unknowingly putting on the line. He didn’t kill someone and it’s about to bite him in the butt.
18:43 That mischievous look in your eye knowing what's about to be said is great. 🤣
Keep Your Friends Close is one of the few songs I’ve put on repeat by itself. Most of the time I tend to group a few songs together if I want to listen to the same ones over and over, but this song has such range that it almost has the same feeling as when I group a few songs together
I don’t know if you have picked out which Underworld Saga animatics the two of you will be watching but if you haven’t, for the Underworld song I recommend TheeArteest’s animatic! It’s very very good! It’s my favorite out of the ones I’ve seen.
I just love how when the ship go >backwards< the songs already sung in the ocean saga come back and are played again
My interpretation of Aeolus is that his avatar/manifestation is a child. The personality is very childlike, with the laughter and the "Let's play a game!"
Femme vocalists are often chosen to voice childlike character because an adult femme voice is very easy to project as a masc child. IIRC, Aelous is also one of the youngest of the gods.
"Winions" was a term that Jorge used to describe Aeolus' creatures, it is completely made up by him and not derived from The Odyssey. Since conception they have always looked like Mircsy's "lotus eaters" depiction (Jay used them as the first mascot of the first merch drop, well before any full songs were released), even though in this animatic, their original design isn't actually used by Gigi. Since, Jay has embraced the winions design being used as lotus eaters, too.
You're in good company, Mortius, this (along with "Luck Runs Out") is also one of my best friend's favorite songs!
(My favorite is "Survive")
13:16 you’re correct. These winion creatures here are the same creatures we meet, (mirscy’s work in progress ‘keep your friends close’ video shows the same design from their cyclops saga animatics) eating the lotus fruit in the cyclops saga (friends Polites thought he could trust…). but the fanbase adopted the name because we’re Winions in our own right /lh
We ate the EPIC fruit and now we can’t leave
I feel the same way! I love this song so much! It’s my favorite song and I’m glad it’s getting some good recognition. You two are so great, amazing video ya’ll! The outrage at him never having seen Hamilton is hilarious! I totally feel that XD
This song always gives me the chills when the switch happens after the bag got opened
I have also seen some speculate that Aeolus' Winnions and the Lotus Eaters are the same species, the Lotus Eaters are just Winnions that ate Lotus. Both are mischievous little buggers at the very least.
The land of the giants isn’t the home of the cyclops, it’s the home of cannibal giants called “laestrygonians.” In the myth, they were the ones to actually destroy the rest of Odysseus ships with huge boulders, not Poseidon. Poseidon didn’t even meet Odysseus face to face I don’t think
"Well, that's not the cyclops!" It sure isn't! :'D It's much, much, much worse!
This song is a great combination of "Pandoras Box" and "Doubt comes in" from Hadestown(Eurydice and Orpheus)
Ultimately curiosity being the biggest human issue and trust.
ALSO
"The end justifies the means" is a COMMON occurence in these songs.
How many times is it stated "when we do this, we can go home"
It happens in polyphemus/remember them, it happens in luck runs out, it happens in horse and the infant, in cerce saga, in underworld, and leads to its ultimate result in the thunder saga. Its always one more kill, i just have to do this to get home. And hes STILL not home
"I've never seen Hamilton."
Sound the Horn!📯
We've got an educationel Mission!
Don't know if y'all noticed but aeolus said "and if you win-d you will get what you're yearning"
The wind gods in Greek myth are pretty ambiguous, and have been depicted as both male and female,
except Zephyr(West wind) and Boreas(North wind) who are male
I just caught this on this listen through, but when Odysseus says "This bag has the storm inside" the storm theme plays on trumpets in the background!
Mortius- Personally I think you are the top ranking expert on Epic the Musical from a reactors perspective! Love watching these
Did you notice that the one that said Odysseus wake up they're opening the bag, was Athena's voice actress
29:33 AND HERE COMES POSEIDON WITH A FOLDING CHAIR
Love how excited you are about this song Mortius! This one and Ruthlessness are equal tied in first place for me in Epic so I totally get what you mean (and I really do love Gigi's animatics as well)
"I feel he would've trusted eurylicus with the bag"
Me: *laughs in knowing what euryloxus will say in a couple of sagas*
Ruthlessness invited me in with its awsomeness but This song is the best of them all and now i have them both on repeat as they fit so good.
I think Eurylochus was the one that opened the bag, or at least had something to do with it. That could be what he’s feeling guilty about in “Puppeteer”.
That is absolutely my understanding of that guilt. I also feel like Odysseus knows, which is why he shut it down. He literally couldn't deal with the verbalization of the betrayal.
well. :D :D
I also love the Hades guess as that means CF didn't notice the rocks shaped like a giant trident.
Alright yall best god is coming up!!
"Sometimes killing is a must" - shot out to everyone who will listen do Scylla later xD
i know it’s a little late, but you were talking about different animatics, and I SOOOO wish you guys could have watched mircsy’s “my goodbye”, it has so so so much depth and emotion and it is so powerful.
I'm not sure how much thought Jorge put into it when writing this saga, but Odysseus isn't the kind of king Europe became familiar with from the Middle Ages forward. While he is the son of a line of kings, their territory is a small rocky island near Greece. Such a king is not a king because he's acknowledged and supported by most of the nobility and even the religious authorities; on the throne because of politics, familial succession and social contracts. Kings in those days were not uncommonly (descended from) warlords who managed to conquer a bunch of land, declared themselves king and managed to keep that land and leadership. Odysseus is standing in rank above his men, but he's not the 'blue blood ordained by god' kind of king, the one you don't dare to disobey in case that angers Zeus. Which is why even in Homer's Odyssee the crew could be said to disobey his very clear orders (even though that still makes them incredibly incompetent and stupid).
Thx for the reaction
23:42 10 years 🤣
Him laughing at the done for
The best animatic, the best song in the musical the list goes on
The black headband made me thinm like imagine if when they listened to the cyclops saga if Mortius was like dressed for a funeral