Should Bell's Hells let Predathos run wild? Would you play a D&D pinball machine...and what chapters should come to Space Marine 2 in 2025? Let us know in the comments!
Ludinus clones have been his thing so I would not be surprised if it turned out to be the case that he just body hopped. Now the Predathos host situation… did anyone else kind of already expect it? Looking at it from the characters, sure it’s conflicting, but when we take a look at the business it makes sense. CR is trying to move away from DND and I believe move to Daggerheart. A global/divine reset by a divine hungering entity would give them this
It feels like this is the pre-agreed ending from the cast: end Exandria in its current form with an end to gods and divine magic as we know it. And have a time jump with new intelligent animal based species that have developed in a post-cataclysmic Exandria, as MM suggested not long ago
How could they NOT press the giant red button? Ruidus is literally a giant floating red button in the sky to press. In retrospect, it's the biggest, campaign-long, DEWIT that Matt could have possibly set up.
"Clone" spell, it's in the corebook, read that and tell me he wouldn't have that spell up lmao, his other "clones" we've seen of him are his simulacrums, high level wizards in d&d are almost gods
Yes, this makes sense from an above table perspective, but that’s one of the many things contributing to my feeling that the work wasn’t put in dramatically and through character development to make it make sense/earn it in game.
Man you DON'T put a decision this big for ASHLEY JOHNSON to make, Ashley is naturally indecisive and unfortunately so is fearne😂😂😂 Laura is very assertive and Imogen too
@@stormy7722 if you watch 2 episodes you can figure out why ashley cant be trusted with decisions. or remembering how her own character abilities work. or math.
I do agree with you that the Ludinous fight was underwhelming. I just find it a bit frustrating that we’ve seen Vecna, a singular lich, put Vox Machina on the ropes even before he ascended. Makes me wonder what’s changed.
Part of why I'm not too big on this angle with Imogen is that it either makes Laura play against the rest of the party or it removes her player agency. Which I'm sure she and CR would be fine with, but it's as bad a way to play D&D as it is a good way to tell a story. And if Ludinis did transmit his soul, it would be interesting to see if it can pass the barriers freely and quickly to intervene in the Predathos encounter. Where and how far did his soul travel? Imagine the possible complexity here with Ludinis, Braius (maybe even blessed by Asmodeus) and the Hells all with different goals for Predathos.
I’ve said this before but I’m sincerely hoping that they stick with DnD for the next campaign Exandria is more than likely as we know it going to end but I hope they don’t do the next setting with DaggerHeart (even though it also looks like that’s happening) I’ve tried watching there DaggerHeart plays before and while there not bad I don’t think it’s going to be very good for them if that’s what they decided to switch to.
Likewise, i totally get the moral reasons for wanting to move away from being tied to wotc. But ya, I just do not enjoy watching Daggerheart as much as DND. I will say that I will probably still watch the following campaign because I enjoy their story telling, but I think I will probably wait for the vods on combat episodes since I'm not the biggest fan of Daggerheart combat.
@ Yeah same I love the martial stuff but the spell casting and the armor system are just so boring to me. Personally speaking of course. And to be fair it’s hard to compete with DND spells that have been around for over 20 years. But yeah if campaign four is a DaggerHeart system I’m officially going to be a vlog guy for critical role😢
Yeah, the Daggerheart mechanics and story telling just doesn't have the same feel to it. Where I usually watch the main campaign episodes in 1 or 2 watch sessions for each, I stretch the daggerheart episodes in 3 to 4 watch sessions cause it doesn't hook me as much. I actually never even finished the 1st campaign/one shot (?) that they did, I think I didn't even get through the 1st episode. I did watch the Critmas one shot though
This is going to turn out really bad for them. Goodbye Clerics, Paladins, Warlocks, Celestials, Demons, Devil's, Aasimar and Tieflings. The willpower save she's probably going to have to hit is probably a 30 or 40 to control themselves probably with disadvantage.
Nah you know Matt will throw them a lifeline like "The power of friendship" or something like that. He's incredibly good at pulling his punches. I mean if he didn't Bell's Hells all would have died during the campaign by now. And honestly S2 should have seen more characters dead straight up.
@Soulessdeeds Well he kind of does and he kind doesn't. He gives them a slight lifeline but he always doesn't hold back. They have been killed before and have been brought back with magic. If they die it will be permanent, resurrection magic is wonky. Also it seems like its presence makes magic not work right. If it is going to be a power of friendship it's going to be a high DC. He'll let them but they have tried that before and failed and other time they have succeed. I just say they're extremely lucky. He does punish them for their actions but he does soften it a little bit but he does go through with it. This time I really think this is going to blow up in their face. That's why the backup plans the Mighty Nin to take over if they fail this mission.
Matt has already indicated that lesser powers will be around and that what we call divine power was around before the gods. And my guess is there will still be worshipped beings, because that’s how humans (and possibly others) roll. I’m sure the new age will be different, as will some classes, but it will still recognizably be D&D (or Daggerheart)
@@danmanmtn2331 I do agree with you there's going to be new standings or it's going to be dagger heart. But if the creature is still hungry after it eats all the gods and goddesses it might go for level 20 characters. We already know radiant and necrotic damage are symbolisms of the gods. It might be a level cap of 12. Everyone above might get eaten if they have magic. There's one thing he has not cleared up yet does it only eat the divine magic only or just pure magic.
Imogen was so predictable. I hope they neutralize Predothos. The military meaning. Imogen can be a casualty. I need the Mighty Nein to come in and handle this. I'm officially over what's their name
i still don't get your hate for Ludinus like he cast one spell that completely fucked the party yes it was a powerful spell but still, the fact that it took them so long to deal with that spell and he could have easily killed the party if he focused on killing them like most of the party was stuck clumped up in one spot if he wanted them dead he could have just continuously fireballed them and they'd be dead within a few rounds. and then he's not even dead he's still out there.
I would have liked to see a bit more in-group conflict/rationale/justification for this ultimately earth shattering decision. The only character that I feel like has done the work to dramatically justify their anti-god stance is Ashton. Now, this last minute Ludinus clone or anyone else could come back and free Predathos justification feels a bit lazy. Heck, if there was a fight with Orym and Braius going down to try to stand by their convictions, that would have felt more satisfying to me.
Ah yes, the very sniper-based Salamanders. What a great class choice for their champion. I will be impressed on the creation of long range flamethrowers lol
They seemed convinced that they couldn't fight Predathos for some reason even though they clearly could have. You just never know what decisions players are going to make.
@@voryntheriolu2525 Chet didn't even take that much damage. I seriously doublt Matt would railroad them like that by putting in an unbeatable boss. A TPK is always a possibility I guess but we've yet to see one in three campaigns.
I expect all of Bells Hells to share away Predatos so it would be easier to control and scare away / change the gods to clean the slate for a new version of Exandria for Daggetheart system with no connection to D&D IP/ sccrubing connections to D&D and Pathfinder. Hasbro is shitting the bed with saying yes to gambling machines
@@roboblob6591 yes it was, no heals needed, not a single PC downed, and Ludinus spent his actions putting down the barrier instead of fighting, only using his legendary actions to engage.
Sad how much they destroyed the love of this show with this storyline. Had a chance to make a epic tale. And they messed it up with back up characters and laugh tracks. If they had just admitted to be be telling the WoT story they wouldn't have had to go so ugh to hide it
I stopped watching Critical Role about 100 episodes ago because the will-they-won’t-they about deicide was so stupid I couldn’t take it. The idea of just pulling the ripcord and blowing up the gods of a wild just for shits and giggles, without the uncertainty of the outcome *alone* rendering it beyond countenance, was nonsense. They kept doing that? And they threw actually went ahead and did it? Yuck.
What should have been the penultimate encounter, involving an NPC nemesis who was in 2/3 campaigns and has planet altering ambitions, turned out to be a big ol wet fart. He didn't even try to put up a fight. Literally had his back turned to the party for 95% of the encounter. It was sorta cool that Orym got the HDYWTDT, but I'm sure Matt has plans for Ludinus to return somehow, so even that will be undermined in the end. Honestly, I'm just ready for the Imogen show to reach it's conclusion. I did enjoy this campaign and the characters but REALLY didn't enjoy how 1 character has basically been set up to be "the special" from the get go. Doesn't feel like a D&D campaign as much as it feels like a story Matt wrote and the cast are acting out. Even less enthusiastic about the obvious shift to Daggerheart. I'll be interested in seeing if they can actually pull it off, and to see how many fans they're going to alienate by ditching D&D proper. God Speed CR...it's been a blast
Yup. As a fan who would love to see CR continue to grow, I am worried about the seemingly obvious move to Daggerheart coming up. I think they could lose like half of their regular viewership.
C1 was much the same with how Keyleth was set up to be the main character/focus, but it didn’t seem as forced as this does. Tbh, the whole campaign has felt forced, between the relationships that aren’t very interesting and the lack of fleshing out some of the other elements of the narrative. I really don’t know what to expect going forward. It’s been really tough to get interested in the daggerheart content they have done. Feels like they will see a material drop in viewership after a possible spike in the first couple of episodes where people are seeing how it works and how it translates to a larger campaign. But they’ve gone all in on it, so I can’t imagine they would do another campaign using the d&d system.
Critical Roles selling point has always been needy ass voice actors play dungeons and dragons. Emphasis on dungeons and dragons, hopefully they don't tank their business by switching soley to daggerheart, it would be delusional and a horrible business choice
Should Bell's Hells let Predathos run wild? Would you play a D&D pinball machine...and what chapters should come to Space Marine 2 in 2025? Let us know in the comments!
Ludinus clones have been his thing so I would not be surprised if it turned out to be the case that he just body hopped. Now the Predathos host situation… did anyone else kind of already expect it? Looking at it from the characters, sure it’s conflicting, but when we take a look at the business it makes sense. CR is trying to move away from DND and I believe move to Daggerheart. A global/divine reset by a divine hungering entity would give them this
Yeah, that is a popular theory and it could very well be coming true next week!
It feels like this is the pre-agreed ending from the cast: end Exandria in its current form with an end to gods and divine magic as we know it. And have a time jump with new intelligent animal based species that have developed in a post-cataclysmic Exandria, as MM suggested not long ago
How could they NOT press the giant red button? Ruidus is literally a giant floating red button in the sky to press. In retrospect, it's the biggest, campaign-long, DEWIT that Matt could have possibly set up.
"Clone" spell, it's in the corebook, read that and tell me he wouldn't have that spell up lmao, his other "clones" we've seen of him are his simulacrums, high level wizards in d&d are almost gods
Yes, this makes sense from an above table perspective, but that’s one of the many things contributing to my feeling that the work wasn’t put in dramatically and through character development to make it make sense/earn it in game.
All of Bell's Hells was too fence straddling for my liking...I was hoping that Braius was the wild card to pull the pin on it.
He never got a shot to do anything really
Man you DON'T put a decision this big for ASHLEY JOHNSON to make, Ashley is naturally indecisive and unfortunately so is fearne😂😂😂
Laura is very assertive and Imogen too
are you related to these people? How can you possibly know this?
@@stormy7722 maybe by watching them play and interact with each other for 1400+ hours. Or would you say they put on fake persona's while on camera?
@@rakion299 They're ACTORS!! OFC they put on a fake persona while on camera..ITS HOW THEY MAKE $$$.
@@stormy7722 if you watch 2 episodes you can figure out why ashley cant be trusted with decisions. or remembering how her own character abilities work. or math.
@@stormy7722hundreds of episodes.
I do agree with you that the Ludinous fight was underwhelming. I just find it a bit frustrating that we’ve seen Vecna, a singular lich, put Vox Machina on the ropes even before he ascended. Makes me wonder what’s changed.
Couldn't agree more, the stake was unreal in that fight. I hope Dagger heart would bring back that tension somehow.
Watching them, play I think they got bored with all the math and rules of D20 systems they want to move on to Daggerheart
Part of why I'm not too big on this angle with Imogen is that it either makes Laura play against the rest of the party or it removes her player agency. Which I'm sure she and CR would be fine with, but it's as bad a way to play D&D as it is a good way to tell a story.
And if Ludinis did transmit his soul, it would be interesting to see if it can pass the barriers freely and quickly to intervene in the Predathos encounter. Where and how far did his soul travel? Imagine the possible complexity here with Ludinis, Braius (maybe even blessed by Asmodeus) and the Hells all with different goals for Predathos.
Given the fact that the rest of the party was able to follow Imogen through the barriers without any problem, I don't see Ludinus having trouble.
You're assuming the group will actually fight her... I'm not convinced they all will
the whole conversation with predathos felt pretty similar to the ending of ME3
With probably the same level of controversy as the ME3 ending
I’ve said this before but I’m sincerely hoping that they stick with DnD for the next campaign Exandria is more than likely as we know it going to end but I hope they don’t do the next setting with DaggerHeart (even though it also looks like that’s happening) I’ve tried watching there DaggerHeart plays before and while there not bad I don’t think it’s going to be very good for them if that’s what they decided to switch to.
Likewise, i totally get the moral reasons for wanting to move away from being tied to wotc. But ya, I just do not enjoy watching Daggerheart as much as DND. I will say that I will probably still watch the following campaign because I enjoy their story telling, but I think I will probably wait for the vods on combat episodes since I'm not the biggest fan of Daggerheart combat.
@ Yeah same I love the martial stuff but the spell casting and the armor system are just so boring to me. Personally speaking of course. And to be fair it’s hard to compete with DND spells that have been around for over 20 years. But yeah if campaign four is a DaggerHeart system I’m officially going to be a vlog guy for critical role😢
@@NovelVanguard ya I mean, and tbh, not a fan of the 2d12 system
@ that’s basically the only thing I didn’t mind to be honest but I can under people not liking it
Yeah, the Daggerheart mechanics and story telling just doesn't have the same feel to it. Where I usually watch the main campaign episodes in 1 or 2 watch sessions for each, I stretch the daggerheart episodes in 3 to 4 watch sessions cause it doesn't hook me as much. I actually never even finished the 1st campaign/one shot (?) that they did, I think I didn't even get through the 1st episode. I did watch the Critmas one shot though
Ruidus has always been a giant floating red button.
Predathos will turn out to be a giant squirrel. The child is a facade!
This is going to turn out really bad for them. Goodbye Clerics, Paladins, Warlocks, Celestials, Demons, Devil's, Aasimar and Tieflings. The willpower save she's probably going to have to hit is probably a 30 or 40 to control themselves probably with disadvantage.
Nah you know Matt will throw them a lifeline like "The power of friendship" or something like that. He's incredibly good at pulling his punches. I mean if he didn't Bell's Hells all would have died during the campaign by now. And honestly S2 should have seen more characters dead straight up.
@Soulessdeeds Well he kind of does and he kind doesn't. He gives them a slight lifeline but he always doesn't hold back. They have been killed before and have been brought back with magic. If they die it will be permanent, resurrection magic is wonky. Also it seems like its presence makes magic not work right. If it is going to be a power of friendship it's going to be a high DC. He'll let them but they have tried that before and failed and other time they have succeed. I just say they're extremely lucky. He does punish them for their actions but he does soften it a little bit but he does go through with it. This time I really think this is going to blow up in their face. That's why the backup plans the Mighty Nin to take over if they fail this mission.
Matt has already indicated that lesser powers will be around and that what we call divine power was around before the gods. And my guess is there will still be worshipped beings, because that’s how humans (and possibly others) roll. I’m sure the new age will be different, as will some classes, but it will still recognizably be D&D (or Daggerheart)
@@danmanmtn2331 I do agree with you there's going to be new standings or it's going to be dagger heart. But if the creature is still hungry after it eats all the gods and goddesses it might go for level 20 characters. We already know radiant and necrotic damage are symbolisms of the gods. It might be a level cap of 12. Everyone above might get eaten if they have magic. There's one thing he has not cleared up yet does it only eat the divine magic only or just pure magic.
Imogen was so predictable. I hope they neutralize Predothos. The military meaning. Imogen can be a casualty. I need the Mighty Nein to come in and handle this. I'm officially over what's their name
Predathos' chosen form gave me the same vibes as The Collector from The Owl House. Very different motivations perhaps, but no less terrifying.
i still don't get your hate for Ludinus like he cast one spell that completely fucked the party yes it was a powerful spell but still, the fact that it took them so long to deal with that spell and he could have easily killed the party if he focused on killing them like most of the party was stuck clumped up in one spot if he wanted them dead he could have just continuously fireballed them and they'd be dead within a few rounds. and then he's not even dead he's still out there.
I would have liked to see a bit more in-group conflict/rationale/justification for this ultimately earth shattering decision. The only character that I feel like has done the work to dramatically justify their anti-god stance is Ashton. Now, this last minute Ludinus clone or anyone else could come back and free Predathos justification feels a bit lazy. Heck, if there was a fight with Orym and Braius going down to try to stand by their convictions, that would have felt more satisfying to me.
Travis knew exactly what the perfect "moment before disaster" snapshot would be 😂
Ah yes, the very sniper-based Salamanders. What a great class choice for their champion. I will be impressed on the creation of long range flamethrowers lol
Only ending now is gods gone, eceryone dies ,or calamity 2.0
They seemed convinced that they couldn't fight Predathos for some reason even though they clearly could have. You just never know what decisions players are going to make.
I doubt that, it waved Chet aside slightly and he went flying, they COULD have started a fight, but i genuinely doubt it would have ended well
@@voryntheriolu2525 Chet didn't even take that much damage. I seriously doublt Matt would railroad them like that by putting in an unbeatable boss. A TPK is always a possibility I guess but we've yet to see one in three campaigns.
I expect all of Bells Hells to share away Predatos so it would be easier to control and scare away / change the gods to clean the slate for a new version of Exandria for Daggetheart system with no connection to D&D IP/ sccrubing connections to D&D and Pathfinder. Hasbro is shitting the bed with saying yes to gambling machines
8 PC's is too much!
Underwhelming? You mean a complete f'ing joke. Complete with Matt giving them an NPC to help speed the already snore inducing combat up.
Was the fight that easy to win? I didn't watch it yet, but this starting point is quite bad ^^""
@@roboblob6591 yes it was, no heals needed, not a single PC downed, and Ludinus spent his actions putting down the barrier instead of fighting, only using his legendary actions to engage.
Ira might have taken the body for other purposes
Matt did confirm later that it was a ludinus self destruct feature of sorts
NGL thought there already were dnd pinball machines but sure cool I guess
Matt Mercer is getting his funland? 😂
Pinball I can get behind except the price
Sad how much they destroyed the love of this show with this storyline. Had a chance to make a epic tale. And they messed it up with back up characters and laugh tracks.
If they had just admitted to be be telling the WoT story they wouldn't have had to go so ugh to hide it
I stopped watching Critical Role about 100 episodes ago because the will-they-won’t-they about deicide was so stupid I couldn’t take it. The idea of just pulling the ripcord and blowing up the gods of a wild just for shits and giggles, without the uncertainty of the outcome *alone* rendering it beyond countenance, was nonsense.
They kept doing that? And they threw actually went ahead and did it? Yuck.
What should have been the penultimate encounter, involving an NPC nemesis who was in 2/3 campaigns and has planet altering ambitions, turned out to be a big ol wet fart. He didn't even try to put up a fight. Literally had his back turned to the party for 95% of the encounter. It was sorta cool that Orym got the HDYWTDT, but I'm sure Matt has plans for Ludinus to return somehow, so even that will be undermined in the end. Honestly, I'm just ready for the Imogen show to reach it's conclusion. I did enjoy this campaign and the characters but REALLY didn't enjoy how 1 character has basically been set up to be "the special" from the get go. Doesn't feel like a D&D campaign as much as it feels like a story Matt wrote and the cast are acting out. Even less enthusiastic about the obvious shift to Daggerheart. I'll be interested in seeing if they can actually pull it off, and to see how many fans they're going to alienate by ditching D&D proper. God Speed CR...it's been a blast
Yup. As a fan who would love to see CR continue to grow, I am worried about the seemingly obvious move to Daggerheart coming up. I think they could lose like half of their regular viewership.
C1 was much the same with how Keyleth was set up to be the main character/focus, but it didn’t seem as forced as this does. Tbh, the whole campaign has felt forced, between the relationships that aren’t very interesting and the lack of fleshing out some of the other elements of the narrative. I really don’t know what to expect going forward. It’s been really tough to get interested in the daggerheart content they have done. Feels like they will see a material drop in viewership after a possible spike in the first couple of episodes where people are seeing how it works and how it translates to a larger campaign. But they’ve gone all in on it, so I can’t imagine they would do another campaign using the d&d system.
Lost interest in bell's hells around episode 30, couldn't care less now that the action is just abstract
Critical Roles selling point has always been needy ass voice actors play dungeons and dragons. Emphasis on dungeons and dragons, hopefully they don't tank their business by switching soley to daggerheart, it would be delusional and a horrible business choice
Unintersted now.
Fair, the problem with a big all or nothing choice is that some people will always be way more invested in one than the other!
Same, at least now I don’t have to watch the whole episode