While I agree that Ludinas's motivations are understandable, I very much disagree that what he's done is justified. There's lots of different reasons why I think that, but I'll focus on one: He says the stereotypical "Unfortunately, sacrifices must be made for the greater good of what I'm doing", but I haven't seen any evidence that he's the one making any of those sacrifices. It's always someone else's family, or lively hood, or whatever, that needs to feed into his power. If he was truly focused on the greater good, then he should have been more than willing to sacrifice his own life, or power, or whatever to get it done and ensured there were others to carry on after he did.
He did try to kill Liliana despite knowing her for (assumedly) years which we can assume is close to him in some form due to the high rank and how close he lets her get, but we haven't actually seen what has happened between them and their relationship and he hasn't really been played as someone who feels bad for this, despite being such an easy out.
Right. Ludinous is angry that his family was wiped out by the gods... So he's justified in wiping out Orym's family? I get that he's mad, but he has literally Zero moral high ground to judge the gods since he's done the exact same thing and tried as hard as he could to avoid accountability. "The ends justify the means" is itself an unjust position
There's no way that just destroying the gods isn't going to unleash some kind of hell on Exandria, even if it's only other forces, like archfiends, and who knows what else, rushing in to fill the power vacuum. I think they were supposed to fight Predathos as he was the big bad and they probably still will unless they just totally give in to what he wants.
If they stick to the current schedule, eight episodes from now would be the day after their 10th anniversary. I don't know if C3 can stretch that far, but maybe C3 ends and C4 begins in that amount of time? Having a 4th campaign start on your 10th anniversary would be so cool.
while that would be cool, I'm pretty sure they usually take a bit of a break before starting a new campaign. They probably will wait until after all the live shows
I often wonder whether or not we're going to get a longer Daggerheart campaign instead of D&D. Not necessarily a large scale, multi-year campaign; people would be too skeptical to give that a shot and keep viewing. But something long enough to really showcase the potential of Daggerheart within a scope larger than a one-shot.
They've been hinting heavily, one could almost say made a soft announcement, C4 is going to be Daggerheart. Their announced live shows for 2025 are all Daggerheart games, set in Exandria with a significant time skip forward, in the wake of what could be described as a "second Calamity". The quiet part out loud is that's campaign 4, and they don't want to "spoil" the ending of campaign 3 for the absolute dullards out there who have yet to clue into campaign 3 (or at least, its ending) being prewritten.
@@eacaraxeno only one of the live shows they’ve announced for this year is using Daggerheart. The rest are implied to be using 5e. They really haven’t hinted at anything at all other than the fact that they will play Daggerheart on their channel but there has been no indication it’ll be in Exandria.
Yeah and their reasoning of "well their were folk before the gods that inhabited the world and they did just fine" just doesnt land. Cause yeah, their were elementals and like nature spirits before the gods, but the mortals that inhabit the world have never been without the gods around in some form or fashion, whether it be before the calamity when the gods would walk and live upon the planet, or post calamity where they have sealed themselves away to protect mortals and only influence things happening on the planet from their most devout clerics, paladins, and champions. Like all across the globe of Exandria clerics and Paladins are using their divine connection to heal the sick and innured, and save the innocent from vile evil doers. Weve seen 2 campaigns in the setting that quite literally show that without the gods help that they more then likely woulda lost and the world ending threat would have won.
No one can say for certain and the thinking of "let's try it and see" seems legitimately insane. "It could be 10% nicer. It could end the universe. Why NOT roll the dice on that."
I predict: Imogen will absorb Perdothos and there may be a fight, but otherwise she will become a godlike being who stays on the moon and they give the ruidians a choice of staying or going. Possibly even keeping a bridge of some-kind open. Also I believe she will tell the gods to leave and go to another place she doesn’t care where but they cant stay here. This creates the best of both worlds where all the gods are gone but they don’t have to die. Leaving the luxon as the deity to worship. The main problem I see is it would be totally unbelievable that factions and rebellions wouldnt rise yo the defense of their Gods. Characters like Pike and Caduceus even if they retain their powers would be totally fucked over and idk how the cast would feel about that. Another issue I see is daggerheart has Gods (see liam in character creation) so maybe they are flexible and only exist if worshipped. In any shape outside of the narrative. I feel like this is the last campaign we see from Cr that goes over 100 episodes and a huge change in the future of their live plays.
Ive also watched them since the beginning and I know these people (as well as you can with an exclusively online viewership role, outside of live meets) and the end of this campaign seems like the most (scripted?) I know its not scripted but I do believe they have a specific goal and they will meet it no matter what. It does throw me a bit cause the way Laura acts when she is playing dnd versus the way she acts when she knows whats gonna happen is such a huge difference
My impression on the Xerxes accessing divine magic whithout any god was just a explanation when he was in fact getting his power from Asmodeus without knowing that he did.
He's a Redemption Paladin though, isn't he? Paladins are empowered through their oaths, not any patron deity. I recall Xerxes is a redemption oath paladin turned up to the extreme.
I’m slightly upset where everything seems to be underwhelming. The party doesn’t know what to do, they can’t seem to kill Predathos, they can’t ignore it because it’s gonna happen either way eventually. And they don’t know how to seal it. So they either take control or let it out? It just seems like he’s written himself into a corner.
They're just being "complex" and "subverting" typical, stinky D&D "troupes", it's important for the "future"(but is boring now)......is what they'll say if you criticize the Cult in any way. They need to get back to their roots rather than trying to be the "everything for everyone" Globo-Corp they seem to be headed for.
The Ludinis fight didn't seem like he was aiming to kill. I can't get why he wouldn't go in for the kill after dropping Ravenous Void. Like, maybe he wanted Fearne or Imogen to host Predathos because he knew he couldn't after he lost access to Lilliana's Exultant nature?
I think unless you've been living under a rock, that when C3 ends, they'll leave Tal Dor'ai for the viewers to play in from the released books. Daggerhart is their new system and I think Matt and Co. will build up a new world.
I cannot wait to be done with this campaign the completionist in me needs to know how it ends, but i cant lie, it has not been as fun of a journey as C1 or C2.
I'm a fan, great content for years now. Yeah.. C3 seems longer but campaign 2 was 141 episodes and seemed shorter to me. lol "Time is a weird soup". It's amazing how Matt and his world creating, influenced by a few other DM's, along with the CR players and crew tided all the camps and 3 shots together to create this final conflict. OR.. IS IT? There are the Luxon, Primordials and other ancient powers that can retake from the lost gods, if they're lost? Ludinus might not be in the wrong but his actions and choices made him into that monster he hunted and was trying to kill. An elf of his age and intelligence could've put all that hate effort into a more communal way to achieve his goal. Is Ludinus really dead? I doubt that. The group now has to make hard decisions with hard consequences. IMOGEN..! What about Braius? Will he follow his "Lord of Lies" or be there for the group? Who knows what is in Matt's head, only he does and we get to see it played out, so cool, so exciting.
Anyone else think that Ludinus fight was a complete letdown? He was a level 20 wizard who had like no tricks. They didn’t even have a single PC go down.
I think Ludinus knew he can't win against Bells without some surprise attack and his only chance was to get to Predathos. Level 15 party is rather strong and alone he would lose either way, so he tried to finish the job, which in the end Bells finished for him and he gets to live. We will probably see another showdown with him soon.
...let's be real if ludinus finished absorbing Imogens mom it might be different, but he didn't succeed. There have been villains where we think "oh this will be the fight" bit then the dice just go one way I think of campaign 2 and the devil where Beau kept on nailing her stunning strike. I know in some of the games I've played in the dice just like you on certain days while others they hate you, plus there is a storyline here and Matt is playing a character as another said we probably haven't seen the last of him.
I have 2 things to say to this: 1. These are smart and experienced DnD players who made good strategic moves. 2. Some times the dice just decide to be on your side, which is what happened with this fight, for the most part.
Hi! For me, it's been something of a letdown, except possibly for the worldbuilding - though I genuinely feel like that too suffered from the strange pacing. What I've struggled with is twofold, other than just random little things one always has with longform content. Firstly, the group. I really think it's hard to find a group with less reasons to be together than this one, and that even includes the romance. I think it's a bit better when they have glue like Dorian or, surprisingly for me, even more so Bertrand initially which felt like a perfect character to helm or advise this band. I think it's a case where each one is a decent character if they were part of another group, but they wanted to explore things that kind of clash with this group's cohesion sense long-term, with the backdrop of a plot that demands from them not to be the people the crew is trying to roleplay. It's just messy in a way, and it's hard to bond with the team for me. Obviously subjective in the last part. Secondly, the format. I definitely think video over stream is worse for dialogue and interaction, because they can script a few more elements to keep it rolling - not in everything is scripted sense, but it is just something that will occur when you aren't livestreaming, and a lot of gems were found in those completely bantering moments. This isn't really a huge deal for me though, I mean they still have fun interactions every so often and Matt always tells a good story in the moment. However, the long-form aspect has suffered a lot in my opinion with the constant breaks. This is hard to change when the crew obviously wishes to have more of them than in the past, but you definitely see a fair bit more "we were on break forgetfulness" anybody would have in a campaign or any production. Since these are pretty foundational things, for me it really has weakened the entire campaign somewhat. I want to see what happens, definitely. I'm a bit worried about C4, but that's because I don't know if I'll like Daggerheart - I like many others share the belief they will migrate at least to an extent.
Honestly not even watching this campaign anymore. They absolutely fumbled this whole thing, fucked Ludinus motivations. Please just end this world and give us something else for campaign 4
I mean, I felt C2 was long winded, aimless, and lacked a strong emotional core at the end. So 🤷♂️ C1 is the only one that felt like it had a really solid build and payoff
I've been watching since C1 and after almost 120 episodes of C3 and I still have no idea what it's about. Something, something a red moon, or something? Hopefully, the new campaign will actually be fun, exciting, adventurous, epic and awesome, rather than the weak, whiny worriers they've been for the past 2 campaigns.
Yeah, the worst campaign ever is "acktchually" the Best! How much is this dude being paid? No BBEG. No EPIC battle. No "traditional" ending. No good guys. No bad guys. No gods. No demons. No nothing. Just boring, bland corporate Zoomer slop. Very "Modern(tm)" and "Progressive(tm)", indeed.
While I agree that Ludinas's motivations are understandable, I very much disagree that what he's done is justified. There's lots of different reasons why I think that, but I'll focus on one:
He says the stereotypical "Unfortunately, sacrifices must be made for the greater good of what I'm doing", but I haven't seen any evidence that he's the one making any of those sacrifices. It's always someone else's family, or lively hood, or whatever, that needs to feed into his power. If he was truly focused on the greater good, then he should have been more than willing to sacrifice his own life, or power, or whatever to get it done and ensured there were others to carry on after he did.
He did try to kill Liliana despite knowing her for (assumedly) years which we can assume is close to him in some form due to the high rank and how close he lets her get, but we haven't actually seen what has happened between them and their relationship and he hasn't really been played as someone who feels bad for this, despite being such an easy out.
Right. Ludinous is angry that his family was wiped out by the gods... So he's justified in wiping out Orym's family? I get that he's mad, but he has literally Zero moral high ground to judge the gods since he's done the exact same thing and tried as hard as he could to avoid accountability. "The ends justify the means" is itself an unjust position
There's no way that just destroying the gods isn't going to unleash some kind of hell on Exandria, even if it's only other forces, like archfiends, and who knows what else, rushing in to fill the power vacuum.
I think they were supposed to fight Predathos as he was the big bad and they probably still will unless they just totally give in to what he wants.
If they stick to the current schedule, eight episodes from now would be the day after their 10th anniversary.
I don't know if C3 can stretch that far, but maybe C3 ends and C4 begins in that amount of time? Having a 4th campaign start on your 10th anniversary would be so cool.
they'll probably aim for starting at 10yr anniversary but miss it by a month or so 👍
while that would be cool, I'm pretty sure they usually take a bit of a break before starting a new campaign. They probably will wait until after all the live shows
Something no one seems to be wondering is: why are the devils and demons headed to Vasselheim and what are they planning to do?
I often wonder whether or not we're going to get a longer Daggerheart campaign instead of D&D. Not necessarily a large scale, multi-year campaign; people would be too skeptical to give that a shot and keep viewing. But something long enough to really showcase the potential of Daggerheart within a scope larger than a one-shot.
They've been hinting heavily, one could almost say made a soft announcement, C4 is going to be Daggerheart. Their announced live shows for 2025 are all Daggerheart games, set in Exandria with a significant time skip forward, in the wake of what could be described as a "second Calamity".
The quiet part out loud is that's campaign 4, and they don't want to "spoil" the ending of campaign 3 for the absolute dullards out there who have yet to clue into campaign 3 (or at least, its ending) being prewritten.
@@eacaraxeno only one of the live shows they’ve announced for this year is using Daggerheart. The rest are implied to be using 5e. They really haven’t hinted at anything at all other than the fact that they will play Daggerheart on their channel but there has been no indication it’ll be in Exandria.
Let's be perfectly honest with ourselves. What kind of world would be left if the gods were devoured? Like the unknow is what keeps me concerned
Yeah and their reasoning of "well their were folk before the gods that inhabited the world and they did just fine" just doesnt land. Cause yeah, their were elementals and like nature spirits before the gods, but the mortals that inhabit the world have never been without the gods around in some form or fashion, whether it be before the calamity when the gods would walk and live upon the planet, or post calamity where they have sealed themselves away to protect mortals and only influence things happening on the planet from their most devout clerics, paladins, and champions.
Like all across the globe of Exandria clerics and Paladins are using their divine connection to heal the sick and innured, and save the innocent from vile evil doers. Weve seen 2 campaigns in the setting that quite literally show that without the gods help that they more then likely woulda lost and the world ending threat would have won.
No one can say for certain and the thinking of "let's try it and see" seems legitimately insane. "It could be 10% nicer. It could end the universe. Why NOT roll the dice on that."
@mattzimmerman6581 that is exactly what I am thinking like is the 10% really worth it
I predict: Imogen will absorb Perdothos and there may be a fight, but otherwise she will become a godlike being who stays on the moon and they give the ruidians a choice of staying or going. Possibly even keeping a bridge of some-kind open. Also I believe she will tell the gods to leave and go to another place she doesn’t care where but they cant stay here. This creates the best of both worlds where all the gods are gone but they don’t have to die.
Leaving the luxon as the deity to worship.
The main problem I see is it would be totally unbelievable that factions and rebellions wouldnt rise yo the defense of their Gods.
Characters like Pike and Caduceus even if they retain their powers would be totally fucked over and idk how the cast would feel about that.
Another issue I see is daggerheart has Gods (see liam in character creation) so maybe they are flexible and only exist if worshipped.
In any shape outside of the narrative. I feel like this is the last campaign we see from Cr that goes over 100 episodes and a huge change in the future of their live plays.
1:11 this campaign started well after covid hit.
Ive also watched them since the beginning and I know these people (as well as you can with an exclusively online viewership role, outside of live meets) and the end of this campaign seems like the most (scripted?) I know its not scripted but I do believe they have a specific goal and they will meet it no matter what. It does throw me a bit cause the way Laura acts when she is playing dnd versus the way she acts when she knows whats gonna happen is such a huge difference
My impression on the Xerxes accessing divine magic whithout any god was just a explanation when he was in fact getting his power from Asmodeus without knowing that he did.
He's a Redemption Paladin though, isn't he? Paladins are empowered through their oaths, not any patron deity.
I recall Xerxes is a redemption oath paladin turned up to the extreme.
Ngl, Trent was more menacing than Ludinous. All of his spells were weak, as hell. Especially his 9th.
Its not over yet
If they don't finish up the campaign this month, it'll probably "should" be wrapped up on the first Thursday of February.
I’m slightly upset where everything seems to be underwhelming.
The party doesn’t know what to do, they can’t seem to kill Predathos, they can’t ignore it because it’s gonna happen either way eventually. And they don’t know how to seal it. So they either take control or let it out? It just seems like he’s written himself into a corner.
They're just being "complex" and "subverting" typical, stinky D&D "troupes", it's important for the "future"(but is boring now)......is what they'll say if you criticize the Cult in any way. They need to get back to their roots rather than trying to be the "everything for everyone" Globo-Corp they seem to be headed for.
The Ludinis fight didn't seem like he was aiming to kill. I can't get why he wouldn't go in for the kill after dropping Ravenous Void.
Like, maybe he wanted Fearne or Imogen to host Predathos because he knew he couldn't after he lost access to Lilliana's Exultant nature?
@@matthewbreen1951 needed the power of Predathos to finish them off, so he was distracted
I think unless you've been living under a rock, that when C3 ends, they'll leave Tal Dor'ai for the viewers to play in from the released books. Daggerhart is their new system and I think Matt and Co. will build up a new world.
They should have gotten more items from Ludenas. but that's the loot goblin in me.
It changes nothing, unless CR is your world.
I cannot wait to be done with this campaign the completionist in me needs to know how it ends, but i cant lie, it has not been as fun of a journey as C1 or C2.
Somehow Palpatine Returned
I'm a fan, great content for years now. Yeah.. C3 seems longer but campaign 2 was 141 episodes and seemed shorter to me. lol "Time is a weird soup". It's amazing how Matt and his world creating, influenced by a few other DM's, along with the CR players and crew tided all the camps and 3 shots together to create this final conflict. OR.. IS IT? There are the Luxon, Primordials and other ancient powers that can retake from the lost gods, if they're lost? Ludinus might not be in the wrong but his actions and choices made him into that monster he hunted and was trying to kill. An elf of his age and intelligence could've put all that hate effort into a more communal way to achieve his goal. Is Ludinus really dead? I doubt that. The group now has to make hard decisions with hard consequences. IMOGEN..! What about Braius? Will he follow his "Lord of Lies" or be there for the group? Who knows what is in Matt's head, only he does and we get to see it played out, so cool, so exciting.
Anyone else think that Ludinus fight was a complete letdown? He was a level 20 wizard who had like no tricks. They didn’t even have a single PC go down.
I think Ludinus knew he can't win against Bells without some surprise attack and his only chance was to get to Predathos. Level 15 party is rather strong and alone he would lose either way, so he tried to finish the job, which in the end Bells finished for him and he gets to live. We will probably see another showdown with him soon.
...let's be real if ludinus finished absorbing Imogens mom it might be different, but he didn't succeed.
There have been villains where we think "oh this will be the fight" bit then the dice just go one way I think of campaign 2 and the devil where Beau kept on nailing her stunning strike.
I know in some of the games I've played in the dice just like you on certain days while others they hate you, plus there is a storyline here and Matt is playing a character as another said we probably haven't seen the last of him.
I have 2 things to say to this:
1. These are smart and experienced DnD players who made good strategic moves.
2. Some times the dice just decide to be on your side, which is what happened with this fight, for the most part.
Knowing Matt, there is a but wait there is more for Ludinus
Seemed like he had a clone out there so he has a backup plan I'm sure
Ludinus gives me Magneto vibes.
Ludinus is probably the lamest villain in critical role history
Hi! For me, it's been something of a letdown, except possibly for the worldbuilding - though I genuinely feel like that too suffered from the strange pacing. What I've struggled with is twofold, other than just random little things one always has with longform content.
Firstly, the group. I really think it's hard to find a group with less reasons to be together than this one, and that even includes the romance. I think it's a bit better when they have glue like Dorian or, surprisingly for me, even more so Bertrand initially which felt like a perfect character to helm or advise this band. I think it's a case where each one is a decent character if they were part of another group, but they wanted to explore things that kind of clash with this group's cohesion sense long-term, with the backdrop of a plot that demands from them not to be the people the crew is trying to roleplay. It's just messy in a way, and it's hard to bond with the team for me. Obviously subjective in the last part.
Secondly, the format. I definitely think video over stream is worse for dialogue and interaction, because they can script a few more elements to keep it rolling - not in everything is scripted sense, but it is just something that will occur when you aren't livestreaming, and a lot of gems were found in those completely bantering moments. This isn't really a huge deal for me though, I mean they still have fun interactions every so often and Matt always tells a good story in the moment. However, the long-form aspect has suffered a lot in my opinion with the constant breaks. This is hard to change when the crew obviously wishes to have more of them than in the past, but you definitely see a fair bit more "we were on break forgetfulness" anybody would have in a campaign or any production.
Since these are pretty foundational things, for me it really has weakened the entire campaign somewhat. I want to see what happens, definitely. I'm a bit worried about C4, but that's because I don't know if I'll like Daggerheart - I like many others share the belief they will migrate at least to an extent.
I want to watch criticall role but where should I start.
Honestly campaign 2 is a good start because it doesn’t really spoil much from the first campaign. That and it just has better quality
Honestly not even watching this campaign anymore. They absolutely fumbled this whole thing, fucked Ludinus motivations. Please just end this world and give us something else for campaign 4
I mean, I felt C2 was long winded, aimless, and lacked a strong emotional core at the end. So 🤷♂️
C1 is the only one that felt like it had a really solid build and payoff
Love the backdrop.
NEW FINN FILMS CRITICAL ROLE VIDEO! LET’S GOOO!!!!!
considering its all prerecorded now, it's already wrapped
I've been watching since C1 and after almost 120 episodes of C3 and I still have no idea what it's about. Something, something a red moon, or something? Hopefully, the new campaign will actually be fun, exciting, adventurous, epic and awesome, rather than the weak, whiny worriers they've been for the past 2 campaigns.
Imogen vs. Fearne to save the world. Go Grrrrrrrrls!...........So Strong. So Brave. So Powerful. .......It's all so tiresome.
Yeah, the worst campaign ever is "acktchually" the Best! How much is this dude being paid? No BBEG. No EPIC battle. No "traditional" ending. No good guys. No bad guys. No gods. No demons. No nothing. Just boring, bland corporate Zoomer slop. Very "Modern(tm)" and "Progressive(tm)", indeed.
Grandpa you forgot to take your anti grognard pills.
No need to spam. We get it. You don't like this season. Go touch some grass.