ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 1 ส.ค. 2024
- An unfortunate reality of consuming media critically is that you have to learn how to accept that even your favourite pieces of media might have problems. Which is actually healthy so I highly recommend it.
00:00 - 00:38 Intro
00:38 - 02:49 DreamWork's First Out Gay Character
02:49 - 04:17 Gay Vikings?
04:17 - 07:46 The Hidden Disaster
07:46 - 11:11 Queer Pain, but make it a joke
11:11 - 11:52 Outro
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As a kid I genuinely thought that Stoick and Gobber were a married couple and Gobber had basically taken the role of hiccups mother.
Huh, me too!
Isn’t that basically what happened? Gobber helped Stoic with his son after his mother was taken away.
thats what i thought too 😭😭
I did to OMG I thought I was the only one
Ha ha , never thought of it that way, I just saw him as an uncle. But it’s fine both way
I’m sad Snotlout being bi in Race to the Edge was never relevant in the movies.
I'm sad that Snotlout being queer in Race to the Edge is treated like a joke.
And same.
@@insertchannelname1223 on a way, that had potential to be interesting because it was specifically Astrid who was rude to Snotlout about it, which could hint that Astrid was somewhat homophobic, and it is possible to do a homophobic character right if they get an arc where they learn that their prejudice is wrong and grow to love and accept others instead.
Unfortunately, Snotlout’s sexuality got swept under the rug and Astrid got no such arc.
@@IceFireofVoid I don't think they would have had the balls to make Astrid homophobic, lesbians love her and there is no way the writers didn't know that. It would have been a cool concept though, it's not something we've seen before and I would be interested in it.
@Keanu Snotlout had a crush on a character called Thor Bonecrusher, a character who made two appearances using Fishleg's hypnotized mind before Fishlegs and Thor like.. combined or something (to save the prisoner of Azkaban.. I don't really get it either).
Thor Bonecrusher kind of acted like a celebrity, so the writers were able to play it off like Snotlout was just fanboying _hard_ .
@Keanu There are two episodes where Fishlegs gets hypnotized into thinking he's a brave warrior and Snotlout gets a massive crush on him, And it is explicitly referred to as a crush. Astrid makes fun of him for 'being in love'. Snotlout is explicitly not straight in that series. I don't get why they thought making him crush on Hiccup's mom was the way to go in the third movie. That's just mega uncomfortable.
I always thought Gobber just meant that he was too busy working and no woman found him attractive because of his odd mannerisms, so he never had a chance to marry lol. Or that his missing leg entailed a, uh... Another missing body part, if you know what I mean.
agreed, i just thought he was like, infertile or something because i thought being gay was common in viking times (and i didn’t know about what was discussed in this video like gay vikings)
Or had feelings for Stoick. That was my 2nd guess.
@@secularhuman5006
this.
i always thought they either were really good friends, or he just liked stoic
I thought he was aro or simply had no care about getting into that type of relationship. Although I forgot about that line until this video
@@secularhuman5006 That's what I thought, too. He was his bestest friend, and also had a bit of a crush on him.
I thought the “one other reason” line was a joke because it made it seem like there was a crazy story behind it that you could only imagine with a character like Gobber. That was supposed to be a coming out scene? Yikes.
the "This and one other reason" thing. I just assumed it was because Gobber didn't wanna deal with kids because Hiccup was enough of a handful lmao. That's how I took the side eye there at least
Same here!
Is your profile pick Charlie from supernatural?
@@hareadevlin8094 yep! unfortunately, the show held me emotionally hostage
Same
Some other "other reasons" Gobber might possibly have:
-Being too busy with responsibilities as a teacher and blacksmith
- Being unwilling to procreate after working with viking kids firsthand (I mean, they are a lot)
- Getting brutally rejected by a crush at some point of his life, tainting his perception of relationships
- Trying to stay faithful to a lost partner and being unable to move on and love again
- Being generally uninterested in relationships
- Entering the courting market past his prime due to him previously being focused on his craft, and being unable to find somebody because of that
- Being in some sort of long term taboo relationships, when marriage was not an option
- Being severely mutilated in his losing leg episode, rendering him either an impotent or infertile
- Just simply falling to find a woman who would find him attractive
I MEAN, THAT'S NOT HOW YOU DO COMING OUT, DREAMWORKS!!! THAT LITTLE LINE IS WAGE AS SHIT AND CAN HAVE MULTIPLE EXPLANATIONS!
In rtte Gobber reveals having an ex wife
I don't think the 2nd movie really intended to queerbait, as the line was an ad libbed and they just kinda went with it. But with later projects they should have committed more with the idea
That's fair, but intention doesn't really matter so much since the effect remains the same.
they absolutely did, after the movie came out the crew memebrs talked about how his sexuality will be exlored more in the 3rd movie
@@wizardanerik behind-the-scenes after the fact representation and conversation doesn't cut it. it's a half-hearted attempt to placate a community. *cough* JK Rowling *cough*
@@diamondblade3490 yeah it doesn't? That's why I said it was queerbaiting?
@@wizardanerik ah, ok. thanks for the clarification. i'm not good at the whole online communication thing sometimes
"In the books snotlout and hiccup are cousins" i think that's true in the film-franchise as well?
I mean Snotlout mentions a LOT through the series- movies and riders of berk included- that he's next in line after Hiccup. I THINK- don't quote me on this though- at some point Hiccup or Stoick mentions Spitelout, Snotlout's father, being Stoick's brother/Hiccup's Uncle (maybe he was Valka's brother? dunno, but i'm fairly sure it was mentioned Spitelout is Hiccup's uncle)
I think i recall some points in riders of berk where Snot even calls Hiccup cousin?
Spitelout and Stoik have different names, so maybe Hiccup has/had an aunt who married into the Jorgensons, which would make sense for a chief's sibling to marry one of his closest consultants.
In Race to the edge there's this one episode where snotlout calls hiccup cuz. I forget the name of the episode though
Yes this is confirmed in race to the edge
This may or may not be canon but to me it will be
No it’s never alluded to in the movies or the RTTE. I see a comment saying that it was confirmed in one of the RTTE episodes I don’t remember that ever happening, but then again I don’t have everything memorized by heart but in the 3rd movie Snotlout is flirting with Hiccup’s Mom which while not blood related is still his aunt so let’s hope not cuz it’s creepy enough
Ah you spoke some of my issues with how these things were done, and I still adore the film franchise and respect their staff but yea, I had feelings about this for a long time
As an adult, even being told its supposed to allude to the fact he's gay...I don't buy it.
Yeah gobber not getting married doesn't mean he is gay idk why it would
@Fishman25 It's like a woman being lesbian because she's not interested in relationships or the one or two guys she'd interacted with.
this reminds me of the whole encanto thing where since isabela rejects Mariano, it means she's lesbian. Which is totally stupid lmao people are just desperate.
@@joyosumolo4965 Like I get how lesbians could relate to Isabela's story, but they're the only ones and it's far more about issues of being forced into a relationship you don't want. But I can easily see lesbians, straights, ace, even pan gals that were were facing similar issues.
Umm did you all watch the other movies.?
I already hated Homecoming but this gave me something I didn’t even think about and made me hate it more. They did everyone so dirty in that short, specifically Gobber- not only was the way he treated Hiccup in this short completely out of character for him, add on all this and it’s devastating.
I only consider the first movie and the tv series canon tbh the later movies were so bad
@@JustJoe10 I love Valka, but it kinda got rid of Hiccups being special as the first viking to befriend a dragon. That and the other riders were completely butchered, all that character development in rrte? Nah let's just use them to get some laughs. Also, Toothless completely abandoning Hiccup for a girl is just...
I never really counted homecoming as canon, just one of those "here's fanfiction fuel" things that companies seem to do sometimes.
Between the second and third movie coming out, I had spun this headcanon tale in my head that Gobber was gay and never married due to the only person he really wanted to marry already being married; Stoick. In my head, it was this "developing a crush on a lifelong best friend" sort of trope, but he only fully realized it when Stoick had already fallen for Valka. Child-me decided that he always harbored feelings for him and just didnt say anything out of respect for their relationship and, later, Stoick's lifelong heartbreak, being perfectly okay just being a friend and close confidante.
I also haaaaattted the way they fd up Gobber's relationship to Hiccup in Homecoming. Gobber, who was a second parent to Hiccup, was basically the online line of communication between him and his father, one of the only people that seemed to appreciate Hiccup pre-Toothless and knows first hand the price Hiccup paid for the peace between Vikings and Dragon's write a play about how dragons and viking became friends that actively writes Stoick as the one that befriends Toothless while characterizing Hiccup as a coward basically trying to embarrass Hiccup in front of his children. Whats worse is the citizens of New Berk go along with it. As if this man didn't lose a leg to save their lives.
That was my biggest issue with homecoming too! I watched it for the first time recently and yeah I enjoyed it for the most part, but the way the pageant portrayed hiccup bugged me. Like hiccup was right to be bothered by it. Surely they could have honored stoic without stomping all over hiccup.
I always took the line "This is why I never married, this and one other reason." as "I never actually found a woman lol"
The weird part with the Snoutlout bit is he says that he is next in-line if Hiccup dies. The impliction is that they still cousins
I always took the joke as in the boneknapper or some other dragon burnt off his “Manly Bits”, the guy does have a track record for loosing limbs and had definitely had experience handling dragons back before they were friendly
I always thought that line from Gobber in HTTYD 2 was an impotence/erectile dysfunction joke. That made significantly more sense considering who this character is.
thats exactly what i thought!
It's one of a million ways the potential of this series was squandered. Could they meet new people, and we see an _actual, explicit romance_ flourish? We'll never know! Even if they didn't want to expand (despite this being '''''our world'''''), there were some plans to reference or introduce Eret sr. in the comics. Why not bring him in as a new ally? Boom, someone easily made single that's _not_ 30 years younger.
Oh well, free real estate for the fic writers while we mourn the sad mess the franchise left.
I remember reading something about this. And the person who wrote the line (or something like that) said they wanted Gobber coming out to be a normal thing that did not draw to much attention. As it should be seen as something normal. But yeah they kinda missed on that one a little-
Tbh, I think people shouldn’t even have to come out. Being straight shouldn’t be seen as the default sexuality because it most certainly isn’t.
I feel we should just - idk, find out when they bring a partner over. Be like, “cool, happy you got a good s/o.” And move on.
@@bichitenshi6696 i agree up to a point (in the sense that straight shouldn't be seen as default sexuality) but like non-monosexual people like bi or pan people would still need to come out, because yes most people would then assume that someone is straight or gay depending on the gender of the partner they brought over. Also this wouldn't really work for ace or aro spectrum people. So yes coming out is still needed, but I feel like it should be a more casual thing like a bi person talking about their crushes on boys, girls and enbies or an ace person just casually bringing it up in conversations. This is of course in an ideal world, because in the real world it definitely still needs to be a conversation unfortunately (the unfortunately is not because of the conversation but because the many negative things that can happen when coming out (unaccepting family that kicks you out etc.)
@@idontknow4950 I dont really agree. Why would a bi-sexual Person still have to come out? Does it really matter if they introduce a Girlfrind and after that a Boyfriend? Same with People that are Pan. I mean yeah people might assume the wrong sexuality at first, but... I dont really see it that much as a problem and if you do, you can just tell them.
With people that are Ace maybe, but still not really. I believe it is nobodies buissnes why I am not sexual with anyone. And if someone really whants to know... I still can tell them. (Or if I want them to know.)
In an ideal World it wouldnt matter what your sexuality is. Only that you are happy with your s/o.
@@draconraven9114 oh I get what you mean but what if bi person just happens to only have boyfriends(or girlfriends) or finds the right person at the first try? Also like people may want to find other people like them, like even if you eliminate all discrimination a lesbian (or bi or ace)would probably still feel out of place and somewhat in a group of only straight girls.
Like especially when you're young, like this hypothetical wouldn't just be able to discuss about certain topics (like sex) in the same way, like she can't really ask for advice, or have people to relate to about certain struggles.
Like I know that even with no discrimination I still would feel somewhat out of place in a group of only allosexual folks. Because I would feel like the only one.
But overall I do agree that someone's sexuality (or genitals) is no one business unless they are dating you or are your doctor, but if someone doesn't mind sharing that piece of info I really fail to see the issue, like some people really don't mind if people know about their sexuality and some like to make sure that people know it.
I don't think there is a wrong way or right way to deal with sexuality and coming out, like some people want the whole world to know, others don't mind and some just want that info to be private. Like straight people are afforded this privilege some of them are very open about straightness and sex, some are somewhere in the middle or just don't mind others are very reserved about it, and I think that all of these attitudes are valid.
[Edit]: strongly agree with your last point if even if I fail to see how also taking about sexuality prevents being happy with your SO, like your sexuality matters because it's part of you and you matter. (Matter in the positive sense not negative one, like it matters but it's shouldn't be a big deal if it makes sense).
[Edit:] also realized that I agree if your point is more people shouldn't be "forced"to come out because folks think they're straight until proven otherwise, oh then I wholeheartedly agree I just thought that you were saying that queer folks shouldn't say they are queer a sort of the ole "keep your sexuality in the bedroom" variety of argument. Sorry for the misunderstanding, have a good day.
I agree that no one should have to come out at all, but in today's society, you kind of have to since everyone assumes straight and cisgender are the default. I hope one day coming out won't be a thing anymore, and everyone can just be who they are without question. But right now, coming out is important to a lot of queer people.
I'm an adult and it still went over my head
Like literally just now
Honestly, for that scene in the second movie, I always assumed he meant he was missing "parts". Which is believable considering all his missing limbs.
i think that in the spanish dub Gobber sais something along the lines of "this is why i never got maried, well, with a women" but i may be very wrong, i hevent visited the spanish dub a while but i do remember going crazy about that line with my sib :]
Did he really say that? Esa escena está en TH-cam?
Though it would honestly be super in character if through a whacky series of events, Gobber somehow ended up getting married to a wolverine or something
ngl I actually related to Gobber's reactions to the loss of Stoick and the way everyone reacted about it. I lost my grandfather and am still grieving that lost, but after a year or so, everyone else had basically moved on, so some days it's hard to even get out of bed, because it feels like no one wants to help me. I get where he's coming from, it's been nine years everyone else believes it's over and they can't live normally without moving on, but he still wants to do everything to remember his lost loved one...
A headcanon I had after the "coming out" scene was that Gobber had had a crush on Stoick. And Stoick was maybe straight or bi, but either way didn't return Gobber's feelings.
In said headcanon, Gobber respectfully acknowledged and accepted that Stoick loved someone else, and decided that their friendship was more important to him than wallowing in his unrequited romantic feelings. And that didn't change when Stoick's wife disappeared; Gobber wasn't a widower-chasher.
But the feelings never completely went away, and the reason he never married was that Stoick basically represented Gobber's "ideal partner," and Gobber didn't want to hurt anyone by spending their lives comparing one to the other.
Because d@mn, but do I need some representation for *that* relationship dynamic.
I just thought he was aromatic or smth-
Honestly that would make a lot more sense.
I always loved Gobber growing up, he and Stoick being together would have made so much sense to me, he was always like Hiccups second dad, and was so close to both of them. my boy didn't deserve this, it's so upsetting the more I think about it...
Admittedly, when I first heard that line, my thought was that he didn't get married because he was gay *and into Stoic*, but at the time I was also desperate for any queer acknowledgement whatsoever in any story, so take that as you will.
…shit wait I think that was my thought process too LMAO
holy shit, he was my favourite character, im so pissed to see him like this, man hes the character that got me into tech norse themes and old technology, im now studying robotics, and heres my idol, severly depressed like me, but he isnt getting help, just- UGH, also snoutlout, imagine the team being concerned about headcannons, wow what a travesty ._. just cuz the fans think hes gay doesnt mean he has to be gay or have "im TOTALLY not gay" scenes, honestly makes him just seem more in the closet lol
im just upset that they completely erased snotlout's bi-ness in the movies. After rtte came out and so many ppl were shipping snotlout and fishlegs bc of thor bonecrusher among other things/moments they should have just went for it and had an arc where snotlout realizes thor is still fishlegs and vice versa. Have them end up together instead of the weird shit they did with him crushing on hiccups mom and the out of nowhere ruffnut/fishlegs relationship.
I... never really considered that Gobber was gay lmao, I never thought that line was meant to allude to him being gay.
"the third tripped over its own ass and rolled off of a cliff" is such a beautiful line
ngl the third film could've gone better in terms of writing. Never watched the second Christmas special and I don't think I ever will. I wish the franchise could've ended on a better note. One thing I found interesting was how the fandom interpreted the suspected gay characters. So many people shipped Hiccup with Dagur because of the sort of "frenemies" dynamic they had.
I do wish that if they did decide to include a gay character, that they could've put more love and effort into it.
Hiccup kind seemed to me (specifically in Riders/Defenders of Berk, but Race to the Edge as well) that there were only a few time Hiccup even remotely considered that Dagur would be interested in him and probably spent several hours afterward telling himself he was imagining things. Maybe my Aro ass just doesn't get it, but that's not how I read them.
Dagur literally calls him brother!?
@@JustJoe10 right?
@Amy Holland I thought he meant “brother” on an emotional level. I never thought they were at all related because they’re from two completely different tribes
Honestly, hearing Gobber was gay a few years ago made me excited. He's one of my favorite characters, even with his weird quirks, and being someone who's almost as depressed as he is, I can get it.
And while we're all used to the clean shaven, well groomed, etc gay men, there's always exceptions and he might have more going on. He could be questioning why he is, trying to seem more and more like he isn't, and/or grieving over something (maybe even Stoic?) that causes that nack.
The fact they showed him being depressed in Homecoming and trying to make us laugh at it makes me angry though. I love his character, he's goofy, he's weird, but he's super, SUPER sweet when he's in the right moment. I adore him. So seeing that (even though I've never seen Homecoming and disliked the third movie), makes me so mad. He's so much better than that.
And with the other characters, I could always see Hiccup as pan, simply because of his mannerisms and how the other characters were. The twins being as they are I can always see, Ruffnut as aro/ace and Tuffnut being pan/don't remember what is wasss ahhh. Snotlout being Bi I can still see. The fact they didn't keep that in the movies (at least the third) makes me so sad.
I didn’t even know he was gay until literally now…
Why did they make gobber a creep? Couldn't they have given him a hubby that was the same age as him?
I didn't even realize that Gobber was supposed to be gay- probably didn't help that I only watched the third movie once.
I thought Gobber meant the love of his life was married or otherwise engaged with someone else- and that the person he loves is Stoic. I hold firm on this belief personally, especially with some of the tasty little sprinkles we get of his interactions with his childhood best friend chief in the series~
Sucks they never let us just have openly gay characters who can just. Be actually unambiguously gay.
I really didn’t like how the teammates somehow ended up with each other. Astrid and Hiccup of course, they were a thing since the beginning. Fishlegs and Heather was kinda sweet in RTTE. I loved Fishlegs and Snotlout because they were funny together and they could have have an arc after the Thor Bonecrusher incident. Come on, that was more than a crush and they brushed it under the rug. I really hated the Ruffnut, Fishlegs and Snotlout love triangle because where the hell did that come from. There was no indication except this one episode where Ruffnut and Fishlegs accidentally got married (or so they thought) but Snotlout and the twins were always just friends. The worst thing obviously is Snotlouds crush on Hiccup’s mom. Couldn’t they at least make a new side character so they wouldn’t be related. They were so desperate to give everyone a “happy ending” that they got lazy. If there were more girls in the group, they would all have been set up with each other
When talking about Gobber's ending, you mention something along the lines of "I know he's supposed to be a comedic relief character, but..."
...Well, that's kinda the thing. Our representation is more often comedic relief than anything else (unless you count all the gay-coded villains in media). Yeah, there were good things Gobber could've become as a mentor figure if not for being the comedic relief in the later half. Representation needs to be more spread out. When you have a narrow focus of representing roles, you create sterotypes, and no matter what the stereotype is (positive, negative, neutral, it doesn't matter), that's just a dangerous thing to do.
The sterotype here, like for most gay comedic relief characters is basically the gay aunt/uncle (or equivalent) who's funny when they pop in, but can come and go without really effecting anything important (except for maybe one profound moment of providing good wisdom to the main character, followed immediately by a joke).
He was set up early on to be more of a mentor than anything else, but happened to provide a little of the comedic relief. This could've led him to be a more complex and nuanced character if they hadn't shoved him more into the stereotype over time. It was like he devolved as a character from being a fully realized character on his own to becoming a one-note trait over time. That's the exact opposite of how character development is normally supposed to work...
When the second movie came out, I did actually read Gobber's line as meaning he was gay (and no, I didn't hear any buzz about it online first).
I haven't rewatched the third movie since I saw it in theaters and I've not been able to put a finger on why I was so turned off by it until you brought up the character interactions. Suddenly the repressed memories came back! I was seriously disturbed by Gobber and Snotloud and just found that the third movie completely lost what character interactions and dynamics we had enjoyed before, so I guess my brain just erased the memories and said "lets never watch this again".
I'm seriously saddened to hear that it just got worse for Gobber after that... He was a fun character in the first two movies.
Back when I first watched the _first_ movie I immediately went « yeah Gobber’s probably gay ». I know it’s not right to assume but like- he’s a fictional character and the gaydar was tingling too hard. x)
Anyways, my point is: they really didn’t need all of these ridiculous queerbaiting headlines, the man was obviously queercoded from day one! Just like you said: trying to use his supposed gayness as a selling point without actually going through with it made him go from a perfectly fine queercoded character to a blatant queerbait… Truly a loss. :’)
I’m late watching this but I do have a couple things to add. Going into this, none of my comments are meant in a harmful way and I realize that this franchise has its problems. This also might be a bit long.
I don’t think it was meant as queer-baiting by any means. Dean DeBlois, one of the directors of the Httyd films, is openly gay and has a husband. I doubt he intended to make a bad gay character, purposely or not.
Nobody else in the series has been confirmed as LGBTQ+ representation but Snotlout isn’t the only queercoded character in the series. Hiccup, Dagur and Heather are some big ones too! Possibly even Viggo in season 6 if you look hard enough. Hiccup is heavily coded as trans (the third movie kind of ruined that but it was strong earlier, especially that the Dreamworks Instagram was open to him being trans by reposting a picture of Hiccup with a trans flag (now deleted) ), Dagur could have been gay and Heather could have been a lesbian.
Gobber did get to spend time with the Haddock’s at the end of Homecoming so he wasn’t completely ignored. I do agree that that specific plot point could have been handled better but it wasn’t all for laughs. A lot of what it was, at least what I picked up from it, was grieve. Stoick was his best friend, frankly one of his only friends and he is gone. It can be hard when you constantly see things that remind you of a lost loved one, especially with Stoick having been the chief. Hiccup was also aware that Gobber misses Stoick, he made several comments in that special.
Just wanted to put these down, hope that’s ok :)
Let’s not forget aro/ace Tuffnut too
@@IceFireofVoid Mhm!
And Pan/Bi Ruffnut!!
Listen, I'm done crying about Heather and Astrid's romance.. It's time to cry about Lihn Song and Marella Redek.
(I also didn't know about Hiccup, I'm glad I wasn't the only one to see it)
Wasn’t there a thing between fishlegs and heather?
Snotlout is bisexual in Race To The Edge, it sucks they didn't keep that in the movies
I always thought the "other reason" was either he wasn't interested in having a relationship or that he didn't want kids with how he side eyed Hiccup when he said it
Thanks for venturing into hygiene stuff tbh. Feels somehow a bit... Relieving? To know that it's not just me being worse than everyone around, but that it's a normal human struggle that I'm not alone in. Yeah, loneliness is what this video exorcised from me. At least a little bit.
I hated the third film, but I found Gobber's treatment in Homecoming genuinely revolting. None of the characters would have treated him like that.
I had some issues about this, and there is the fact that i think some racism exists in the series too. I don't like how they made Gobber's story end when it came to homecoming. He needs help, and nobody is helping him, like you said. Then there is the fact that colored people tend to be the villains, and then there is one more thing i really don't like. The Night Lights in School of Dragons. They gave Pouncer the strongest ability out of his siblings as well as the most speed out of them, and they are using him as the lab dragon if you have any NLs equipped when doing an experiment. That's why I don't like Pouncer that much. He's not a bad dragon, but the other two were done a bit dirty in my opinion..
@Amy Holland Ruffrunner is the second fastest night light. He's faster than Dart, and he even has a more bulky build. He is still the strongest out of them in dragon tactics, which makes sense, but he is the weakest when it comes to firepower outside dragon tactics, like for example in battle events. Also, Ruffrunner has a blue blast.
Also in Dragon tactics, this is where i kinda have the most issue with Pouncer. He has the most overpowered ability out of the night lights. That blinding flash of his not only hits multiple targets, but also guarantees a stun on all of them if it doesn't end them, and if he has his dragon tactics active, it does that much more damage. (He can actually clear an entire tactics level with just one of those if all enemies are within range, and their health is under his damage) Compared to Dart, and Ruffrunner, Dart has 2 attack abilities, but Ruffrunner only has 1, the rest of his are defensive abilities which makes sense, he's supposed to be the tank out of them. Neither have an attack like Pouncer's. I don't hate Pouncer, he is just my least favorite because of how the devs seemed to pamper him a bit more than the others.
Personally, i think Dart needs to be faster than Ruffrunner, their speeds could be swapped because Ruffrunner is a more bulky kind of dragon. He isn't as streamlined as Dart, and Pouncer. Dart doesn't need to be faster than Pouncer, but i do think Ruff should be the slowest considering how he's built.
Here are the night-lights' dragon tactics abilities, and what they do, also their stats at level 50
Dart
Plasma Blast: basic attack, reduces target's strength by 50%. Mid Range 900 damage
Long Shot: Secondary attack, deals burn damage for 3 turns on target. Long Range 1575 damage 455 burn.
Inspire: Increases critical chance for 1 turn, removes all negative effects. Long Range, All allies within range
Stealth: makes her invisible for 3 turns or until she attacks. Cannot be dodged while invisible. Self only.
Ruffrunner
Plasma Blast: Same as above 1200 damage
Defender: He makes all nearby enemies focus on him for 3 turns. (Is very good when combined with Pouncer's blinding)
Dragon Tactics: Heals Ruffrunner for 4 turns, increases dodge rate, adds 2 to his movement for 4 turns
Stealth: same as above
Pouncer
Plasma Blast: same as above 900 base damage (1124 with dragon tactics active)
Blind: Blinds all targets it hits, and stuns them, while also dealing damage to them. Mid Range 1912 base damage (2388 with dragon tactics ability active)
Dragon Tactics: Increases firepower for 3 turns, increases dodge rate, adds 3 to his movement for 3 turns
Stealth: Same as above
See how overpowered Pouncer is? They all do have good abilities, he just has the most overpowered one out of them when it comes to offence. Again, he isn't a bad dragon, just a little too strong in my opinion.
@Amy Holland i agree that all the night lights need speed over 9. Maybe not quite that close to their parents, but maybe more along the 9.2-9.6 range. Since the night lights are not member only dragons like their parents, but they're still furies, so yes, i think they need more speed.
A small thing i will also correct is the night light that shot the blast in Hidden World was Ruffrunner. I'll admit though that with the adult night lights in SoD, they gave them pretty cool blasts, and very neat Hidden World glows. Their stats just need a bit of a rework.
I, also a queer and disabled person, definitely thought he was hinting that a dragon bit off his genitals when he lost his leg, not that he was queer. Oof
I've only kinda watched the Homecoming short once, and I remember thinking that all of the characters seemed out of character
Ngl "this and because I'm gay" would've been a lot funnier of a line
Personally I hc Eret as gay and Snotlout as bi and he was just in denial of being in love with Eret. And Hiccup as nb bi Ruffnut as trans Astrid as pan Tuffnut as ace
Didn’t catch that until now… it’s 2022… i just thought I was crazy…
Things we love can have problems, and it's really important to dig into them and analyze em.
The reason for the wasted potential in my opinion was due to highers. In my opinion. Also him coming out gay in 2014 was a game changer at that time and basically was the precursor for things today. Unfortunately, I'm disappointed the writers squander everything with the tv series and 3rd movie
When i first saw that scene it flew right over my head, and the second time. . . And the third . . . . And every time after that
I’m a firm believer that if the httyd franchise was made nowadays where queer rep in kid shows is more normalized there would’ve been a lot more (good) queer characters. Especially considering that dreamworks produced the “it” lgbtq+ kids show.
Oh damn, this made me pretty sad to see how badly Gobber was fumbled.
1:39 This isn't the most important part of the video or anything, but it just hit me so hard. Because, "am I imagining things???" is so often my experience with media and queer elements, especially as a nonbinary person who could really use more nb representation. Ouch. Struck right to my heart.
i like gobber but now knowing his fate it makes me feel bad for him
what if Gobber was in love with Stoick and when he dead because Eret got Stoick dragon, he move is love to Eret. and when he realized that Eret is not Stoick, he got really depressed.
i know this doesn't excuse any of this, but i'd like to point out that the director of all three movies is gay himself and approved both the ad-libbed "this and one other reason" line and the eret/gobber romance. speaking of the latter, i messaged an animator who worked on the 3rd film about it back when it released and they told me it was meant to be, in fact, a romance, only seen through animations more so than dialogue. an example of it not being one-sided is when gobber throws the wedding bouquet and eret catches it (along with his prosthetic hand) and flashes a genuine smile. also the animator told me that party scene when eret passes by hiccup and gobber and takes a bite out of the turkey leg while looking at gobber was flirting which.. sure. good for them? anyway i just wanted to clarify that whatever those two had going on in httyd3 was not the harmful trope explained in the video. romances with such a big age gap in media have never been my cup of tea either but with the gay director and outright confirmation from behind the scenes that eret/gobber was a thing that they were implying, i strongly believe that was their way to give gobber a happy ending. obviously not perfect but none of it could've been done in disservice of gobber's character.
also i would honestly say the httyd3 christmas short isnt really canon as it clashes continuity with the epilogue (and is generally not good but that's subjective). it doesnt even mention valka or eret either, it's hard to take it seriously, not to mention the weird tone it has.
I love how you use the dyslexia font! It’s so helpful :)
Why is gay representation so hard? I mean literally as gay man/idk, I can relate to media and straight the whole time, so gay or any representation would also be a fresh breeze in any form of media. You literally dont have to queerbait and it can be enjoyable for literally everyone, if its not treated like a chore. I mean by itself, romance is so overused, that almost every relationship is predictible, like idk ross and Rachel. I dont know if this statement may be hurtful for people, but at least bi representation should always be possible, since the writers can always say, that these characters are just interested in the same gender but also do nothing about it. This wouldnt be awesome, but at least it would be easier for the writers who wouldnt want to include these things.
If I remember correctly, in the episode where Hiccup imagines what would have happened if he didn't shot down Toothless, it's somewhat implied that he was revoked from his position as heir and replaced by Snotlout for not being "viking" enough, maybe this would confirm that they're cousins
The funniest thing about all this is that the director of the movies, who also wrote the script and the story for httyd2 and 3 is an openly gay man.
I always get upset when I think about Gobber as the series goes on. I have chronic pain, chronic illness, so on. I also know that feeling, like you do, of oily hair on the nape of my neck and of wrinkled clothes that have been on my body for just too long.
I also suffer from my mental health. I can't laugh at those scenes. They make me want to start sobbing my *heart* out, he's not okay! He's never been shown how to grieve and no one gives a damn about him anymore and it KILLS ME!
Damn, I really feel bad for Gobber now :'(
How to Train Your Dragon series is my favorite movies, but I completely agree.
Wow this is just... Wow I didn't even know about the Queer baiting or the Homecoming show (didn't watch it) but hearing about it... Makes me feel like throwing up... I have my own mental health issues and honestly to hear that a company made a show for people to laugh at a character because he's going through something... That just hurts... It's so wrong and just horrible....
I always saw that line as him not wanting kids
The main thing that got be about Gobber in the future is the thing about hygiene, because that is one of the most ostracized thing for people with physical or mental illnesses that make it hard or impossible, and they play it as a joke when people irl are struggling with hygiene and get so much shit about it. You're already depressed so you dont shower but then even if you want to leave the house you feel you cant because of your hygiene. I have skipped college classes because my hair has been plastered to my scalp because I couldn't shower
Gobber is one of the best characters. He deserved a good ending of some sort, extremely sad how they made it end for him.
Yeah deifnitely not queer-baiting, unfortunately if even a tiny smidge of a possibility that some animated character is LGBT, especially a popular franchise like this one, the news is gonna blow it out of proportion. This isn't meant to be harmful in any way but I feel like you misinterpreted how this was spread, I don't think dreamworks reached out to news stations to spread this. Heck, my partner is the biggest httyd nerd I know and they never heard about this, they just assumed gobber was gay just from what they knew and saw (not the scene you showed, just across the series.) I think it's unfair to downplay the movie because of something they didn't intend, and I don't think the large majority of people going to see httyd went because of this. I dunno just thought it was a weird thing to target, news will be news my guy
9:50 i dont think ive ever heard anyone else talk about that.. it is good to know that youre not alone ig..
This subject doesn't amuse me, but the presentation of it in this video leaves me smiling. Some very solid humor and editing make things go down easier. Great summarization and points made throughout.
P.S. a couple of notes from someone who just watched some of the Netlfix show. In it, the fact that Hiccup and Snoutlout are cousins is brought up in multiple episodes so its definitely not just the books, and Gobber is made to bring up his first love in one episode who has a traditionally feminine name. Also, yeah, in the show there is definitely evidence that could be used to argue towards Snoutlout not being heterosexual.
WHAT?! I completely missed the Gobber liking Eret part
Me too!
I loved the first two movies, but for some reason every time I thought about watching the third one I had a weird gut feeling that talked me out of it. I think I was scared it would disappoint me in ways that tarnished the memories of the first two in retrospect for me. I still don’t know if that’s a solid enough reason to avoid it even now, but... man, I can definitely tell it’s not gonna hit me the same way.
Honestly, thank you for breaking down these issues. Knowing what to expect to disappoint me going in makes it easier to compartmentalize those bits and keep them from pulling me out of the parts I enjoy. But... damn, dude, they didn’t have to do gobber dirty like that
I saw "one other reason" as some sort of past trauma and trying to stay faithful to a dead partner. The internet can take things a long way.
Holy frick, this IS depressing. 😰 I can totally relate to the whole not taking care of myself thing.
Gobber isn't gay. I honestly thought he was aro-ace, if anything.
4:06
“They can have a little gay marriage, as a treat.”
Thank you for making me smile, even though the subject is pretty upsetting on the whole.
Honestly I never though of Gobber to swing that way. Come to think of it never thought of him to be in any relationship of any kind cuz of his usual duties.
I wouldnt say Gobber's fallen for Erit?? I think he was just casually throwing compliments lol. Like chicks who see a dude that's hot and make comments to each other. Gobber's comfortable with who he is and found Erit to be attractive, nothing else to it really. I wouldnt expect Erit to respond back or anything 'cause he's probably just accepted the compliments and there's probably a mutual understanding that Erit isnt looking to be with someone.
Idk man, I just never found it weird. I saw a dude complimenting another dude, it's not like he was desperate or all over Erit like Snotlout was with Valka.
Edit: I will agree they could have written it better though. If theyre gonna have Gobber be gay in this recent day and age, they couldved done better with it.
Maybe have him admit he loved Stoic during an emotional scene where Hiccup remembers his father in Gobber's presence or something. Like, he always loved Stoic, but he understood he loved Valka. Because he loved Stoic, he was willing to give Hiccup a chance at dragon training, and risk his life alongside Stoic himself in the movies we see them together.
Gobber holding in attractions to his best friend we've seen numerous times interact with him wouldve made more sense than the sudden attractions to Erit
I respectfully disagree. maybe not with the observations in the 3rd film but in the second film. Nothing about what Gobber says in the second film really has any queer connotations. Yeah you could have taken that line as he is possible gay but he's a gross and overs character so it could have just as easily been he had some really grose bad habits. The reason his character is classified as queer bating now is becasue of the media. They pushed it way out of proportion into something that was possible never true in the first place. i see a lot of the things your saying about the 3rd film are true and i agree they really arnt great. IN saying that, ultimatly is has nothing to do with what the film is about. its clearly a bad pull at inclusion that was done incredibly badly if thats how you interpret those choices but the whole franchised is so far removed from queer representation (sadly) that everything about Gobber can be interpreted in a completelty differnt way that really has nothing to do him being Gay or not. He can definatly be interpreted eaither way and this showed me that if you look at Gobber through a queer bating lense then yeah they did. And they did it badly but ultimatly it really isnt that important as it just isnt the point of the franchise.
I believe Gobber's voice actor confirmed that Gobber is gay. It was years ago, but i remember hearing that. I like Gobber as a character, he's one of my favorites, but i don't like where they put him mentally.
@@Bonniethebunny oh interesting i didn't know that. That's cool! Yeah how they developed his story was not good. It wasn't even a good story line for anyone, nevermind that Gobber is also gay. It just doesn't reflect well at all.
If you want a good queer rep show watch OUR FLAG MEANS DEATH! So much rep. It has a bit of everything.
Brain fuckery put me out of commission for about two weeks once (before I got my medication to regulate my moods). Depression ain’t something to be laughed at.
The bad rep in this film franchise is really sad considering director Dean Debloid is gay himself
Anybody: mentions queerbait
Monster High: hello
Um, what? Huh? When? How, how did I miss that? Did Gobber actually show real interest in Erit or did he just kinda look like it, how did I completely miss it? Do I need to rewatch this movie to figure out what’s going on? I’m so confused
Thank you for saying you can love something and still critizise it i struggle with that a lot
I always thought the ending of httyd 3 as well as homecoming meant that Snotlout and Tuffnut ended up together. Like, they did get along really well in the series and hung out. I mean Snotlout had to be bi with his crushes on Astrid, heather, fishlegs, Hiccup's mother and then what I assumed was Tuffnut. But yeah, that thing with Hiccup's mother was just really weird and wrong on so many levels. There was no reason to do it. They could've just left it, and we'd all be happier for it. I'm pretty sure no one wanted it or was grateful for it when it happened.
I am so confused when all this happened in the movie, it flew over my head
I'm kinda glad I never watched the third movie because Gobber is my favorite character and having to see him like that would have ruined the movie for me.
I like how his hair gets shinier the angrier he gets. Watch him go super saiyan. XD
9:52 Do you have any suggestions for getting out of the “I don’t deserve to be nice to myself” mindset? I just recently realized my self thought process does not represent reality, and that it became like that because of gaslighting from one of my family members. I know it’s a problem, but I don’t know how best to combat it.
The first step is to accept that it's not gonna be something that happens overnight, and it's ok, because changing thought patterns that have been reinforced for your whole life isn't easy. It's a process that takes time and a support group. I'm currently going through this myself, and finding the right people is so important. It can be friends, other family, or even a therapist. It's also very important to start reinforcing positive beliefs from inside. Whatever things you do for the people that you love, do them for yourself too, especially when you're being hard on yourself. It's always hard at the beginning because it's going against your habits of being mean to yourself, but that's how the brain works. If you're kind to yourself and are surrounded by people who are good to you...with enough time, you'll unlearn all those nasty thought patterns and have newer, better ones in place. It's all about unlearning bad habits and thought processes, and like breaking any bad habit, it'll take time, effort, and probably a lot of days where you're frustrated and afraid you'll never change...but keep working at it and trust you'll get there eventually. It takes YEARS to break out of, but itll be worth it in the end for a happier you.
@@josephinewen4628 Thank you so much for the advice. I promise I’ll use it to get better!
@@josephinewen4628 Could you please edit your comment to add paragraph breaks? I am dyslexic (and hyperlexic, but that doesn’t help with this problem) and would like to understand what you wrote, but I cannot process a continuous "wall" of text.
20-50 words per paragraph, an empty row between paragraphs and varied paragraph length should make it possible for dyslexics who have this same problem to read your comment. With the current number of subscribers on this channel (around 14k), there likely are at least 700 of us here already.
Thanks in advance!
I dealt with a lot of abuse and gaslighting growing up. One of the things that has eased me into being nicer to myself has been imagining I'm talking to a friend who has my story and all my issues.
What would I tell this friend? Well, I would encourage and empathize with them, I'd give them a hug and tell them it was gonna be okay. Tell them that all the ways they were put down by others isn't true and wasn't their fault. Tell yourself all the kind things you'd say to a friend, that you deserve to be loved, and you deserve to be happy.
Thinking of myself from an outside perspective as if I were a separate person has really helped me be kinder to myself. I'm still not the best at it, but it's gotten a lot better in the past few years. 💜
This reminds me of another character who feels like he isn't allowed to be happy. That being teddy from Bob's burgers. I don't know what the trope is for having a comic relief character that is supposed to be pathetic for laughs but at some point it stops being funny. It even stops being sad. It moves into frustration Because you look at a character like that and think. "Why should I even care about this character anymore if I know they will never be allowed to grow and be truly happy.
Gobbler is canonically gay
At least we will always have our ROTBTD amd Hijack fanfics
i never thought it was queerbaiting cause as far as i know dreamworks never said that gobber would come out and i always thought that line was kinda a joke you could read as you wanted to
Im pretty sure that a producer of httyd 3 said that snotlout isn't trying to get in a relationship with hiccups mom.