Curious as you say "Lead" elder. Does that mean you agree that women could be what some would call a co/assoc pastor or a deacon? I stand by the truth that a woman is not supposed to be the head, therefore she cannot be the lead pastor of a church or be the main feeder of a congregation. But a woman who is submitted can teach on occasion as long as she is not usurping authority to do so, and even serve as a deacon like Pheobe in Romans 16.
@@beaberean3286 Yes. She can teach but it depends who and the context. Surely, she can teach women and kids at Church. As to outside of Church, she can share the Gospel to unbelievers. But that's pretty much it for women. Or maybe there's also exceptions that appeals to logic on rare occasions. Like she can rectify a man who makes an unbiblical statement if that's necessary. But even though, it's not truly 'teaching' as we mean it. At the end of the day, no. They can't teach. Saying the contrary would be defending a heresy that is unbiblical and have no historical support as there never was a female priest before the XIX century (except among heretics).
@@beaberean3286women are not to teach or preach to men, they can to children and women though. It's also unbiblical for women to have a position of authority over men
The start of the slide is men not stepping up to their God- given responsibility to be effective and godly preachers, teachers and shepherds in Christ's church. Women step up to fill the vacuum - and men are relieved of their responsibility. Nothing good comes from that.
The start of the slide is men not stepping up to their God- given responsibility to be effective and godly preachers, teachers and shepherds in Christ's church. Women step up to fill the vacuum - and men are relieved of their responsibility. Nothing good comes from that.
The Methodist church I went to had a woman pastor. She was the worst. We got into an argument because she told me I was wrong for not out dating after being freshly widowed. She also made fun of me for crying at communion. She told me I need to be happy and not depressed. She really needs a course in bereavement. I found a really good church now (though it’s non denominational 😮). May not be my ideal style of worship, but I’m feeling fed.
You've got THE Church (God's) and everything else. Denomination in a church is not required nor necessary. I'd say how well you know The Word of God is far more important. Reading or listening to Scripture outside of church is a must.
This particular situation is a difficult one. It would be wise to first try to address it as he explained. People these days seem to have zero commitment to the people with whom they worship. They change churches like they're changing their shoes. That's a problem in and of itself.
@@JC-sj2pd I agree Mt. 18 is the best approach. I do not know about membership in Penecostal churches, but I believe that if a person makes a vow or a covenant with his congregation to support its ministry, simply leaving is wrong. It is fair in a situation like this to try to help the pastor understand what the Bible says and let them know this is the reason for your departure and that your reason is a serious reason, not simply a personal issue you have with them. Furthermore, it is rude to just to leave without any explanation to the pastor, that is very discourteous. Pastors, or in this case a sister in Christ, are human too and should be treated with respect.
@@JC-sj2pd -- Matthew 18 has to do with one believer sinning against another; it has nothing to do with how to deal with false teaching by the congregation's leadership.
I attended a Baptist church for several months this year before I found out one of the pastors, a woman, never went to seminary or Bible college. Mrs Notapastor ran the childrens programs and womens programs and was one of two women the site pastor absolutely adored. She called herself pastor 'Linda' (not her real name), and most others at the church, including male pastors, referred to her verbally and in emails as pastor 'Linda'. She sat in on an extremely private counseling session with a male pastor and me _because I thought she was a pastor_ in which I discussed abuse within the church I suffered as a child, and I found out _after_ that appointment that she's not a pastor, had no counseling training, and she's a gossip. She wasn't a pastor's wife, either. Her husband helped run the children's ministry. I've never liked or trusted females in leadership, and this added to my many negative experiences. Of actual pastors and priests who are women, I also have nothing good to say. Not even one I've ever spoken with became a church leader because they felt God call them, for example, and not one of them produced good fruit, even over decades in "ministry".
At 84 plus years of age, my Mom was attending a small Methodist church. She wasn't too pleased that the pastor was a woman. But even better, she wrote a note to the pastor flat out telling her she had no clue what the gospel was about and had no business being a pastor. We're never too old to be used by the Lord.
I strongly suspect that "Linda" was present if you are a female who was being counseled by a male pastor. Especially over abuse issues. But putting a known gossip into a private counseling situation doesn't say a lot about the wisdom of the pastor. Although to be fair, I've known Women department leaders who seemed to have the pastor wrapped around their little fingers. People believe what they want to believe about people that they like just as much as they believe things about people that they don't like.
If you can make “I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet.” 1 Timothy 2:12 to mean “I DO permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain in active leadership.” then why stop there? If you can make that verse say the opposite of what it says, why not make any other verse say the opposite of what it says if you don't like it?
@@DerekCulpepper-vu3cd well, if this was the case, why does Priscilla teach Apollos regarding the Holy Spirit. Her name is mentioned first which establishes primacy. Also, Priscilla and her husband had a church together. You need to read the whole Bible in order to be a complete Christian and you need to see the things Jesus was doing that were different. Who was the first evangelist? A woman….
I attended a church that had a male lead pastor, male assistant pastor, and a woman pastor for woman only. She would pastor a class called, " help for hurting women". For woman who were emotionally hurting from abuse. She would teach the Bible courses, lead women to Jesus, pray and spiritually counsel them. Biblically that is acceptable. She didn't stand in for the male pastors.
That would not be a “Pastor/ Elder/Shepherd” role. That’s the role women should be doing, ministering to other women and children but women are NOT to be an office holder. All you need to do is read the qualifications for elders and deacons. There shouldn’t be separate pastors for men, women, children, singles, elderly, etc… The elders are shepherds of the whole congregation though some may be more gifted in preaching then others, all are to be teachers and shepherds of the flock. Churches are bringing in business models instead of being concerned with what the Bible has said on these matters of leadership and worship. We know women and men can be equal in intelligence and even giftings but God in His perfect sovereign all wise purpose and plan has instituted an order in the church and home. It may look strange to the world but we need to trust and obey our Lord and Savior in this. No. Women. Pastors.
- The pressure is going to increase. There are banks that are refusing to to make loans to organizations that are not following DEI recommendations. The church has some big decisions ahead: Obey Christ or follow culture.
1 Cor 11 also covers the authority of men over women as well. 11:10 "For this reason a woman should have a symbol of authority on her head, because of the angels" Women usurping the authority of men in the church is equivalent to man usurping the authority of God, since Christ is the head of every man, and husband is the head of the wife. If marriage symbolizes Christ and the church, then the woman usurping the authority of the church is the same.
This is why I've always felt that the Russian Orthodox Church (& others) got that point right. Modest head coverings for women need to be brought back in more western churches.
I found myself in a very similar situation. I’m a Baptist missionary in a mostly non Christian setting. The local church replaced their retiring pastor with a woman. She’s a great person, loves the Lord, and is not an activist. Still, i know what the Bible teaches. The hard part is there are not a lot of options nearby, and there are very few people who could be pastor.
When I was in China it was the same. I think it’s best to worship with other believers and be brave enough to disagree and let iron sharpen iron. If there was a choice for a more biblical pastor I would take it.
@@Sujowi I voiced my concerns from the beginning, but was ignored. Half the church was against it. The other half said they didn't like it but didn't have another option. We stepped out on as good of terms as possible. I miss that church a lot. It has been tricky to manage because we get residency documents through that church. There aren't many believers where I serve, either. It's not like the US where there are dozens of options. We've been focusing on a different church plant, but it's really small, mostly children from Muslim backgrounds, and we miss being with other Christians.
@@andyontheinternet5777uh, what about you??? Why were you not answering option? Was there absolutely no men in the church who knew the Bible and could teach?? I am very confused?? Who made the church pick a woman?? Are you all 6 years old??
Recently confronting this issue of women pastors. Looked into my denominations positions on female pastors. Shocked at the weakness of their argument. 1. Because we have a tradtion of fruitful pastoral women. 2. Because of a verse in Joel about the Holy Spirit working in both men and women's lives. 3. Because we have women being theologically trained and they need a place to pastor. 4. Because we have a bunch of scholarship we can cite to work around the Bible text. The argument is so weak, its sad! In my experience confronting any Pentecostal/Charismatic Pastor never ever goes well. "Dont touch the Lord's anointed." OR Church growth pragmatism "Look at how the church is growing! God supports my leadership!" Even worse if its a "Family run business." Its far easier to walk away than it is to fight out polity issues. Person becomes a trouble maker and "in rebellion".
@ Who taught Apollos? A woman. Who was the first Evangelist? A woman. Were there more men disciples or women? Priscilla and her husband had a church. All the early churches were home churches. With men and women co pastors or simply women pastors.
@Yesica1993, I don’t have to. I have studied this question for years. All the evidence shows there were women evangelists, pastoras, disciples, deacons until the 3rd century AD. Priscilla taught Apollos. I can direct you to numerous lectures on Women In Ministry. One by Dr. Sandra Richter is wonderful.
As a Pentecostal Charismatic, we don't operate where elders have higher authority than the pastor. Unfortunately, though, the ordination of female pastors isn't all that uncommon within our denomination. I'm one of the minority who doesn't promote it.
@caleb11b, while you may not promote women pastors, if you continue in a church that does deny Gods Word by allowing women to pastor, you’re also guilty of denying God’s Word.
@DerekCulpepper-vu3cd My specific church doesn't have female pastors. However, I wouldn't be able to follow a denomination that teaches Calvinism or cessationism.
@@caleb11b Its very hard in these end times to find a church that teaches truth. I too wouldnt follow a denomination that teaches Calvinism or cessationism, however , I also could not be part of the mainstream Charismatic Pentecostal church either. I attended that type of church as a young person and became confused, even walking away from GOD for a long while because of the false healings and fake speaking in tongues so common within the Charismatic Pentecostal churches. My father is involved ( 45 years) with the money gospel Charismatic Pentecostals who deceptively teach that coverting is Godly and that if you desire something that doesn't belong to you ( coverting) and tell GOD to give it to you, then HE will bless you. This is the original sin, where Satan lost his position after desiring GODS position ( covet) He then offers the same lie to Eve, offering her GODS position if she eats the fruit of the " tree who knows good and who knows evil". ie Satan knew good because he lived in the presence of GOD but he became evil after he became proud and covetous desiring GODS position. When I listen to charismatic pentecostal speakers, say, like Olstean, Copeland, Hinn etc, all I hear is the fruit of the tree who knew good but now knows evil, that is pride and covetousness, the congregation taught to praise themselves and therefore make for themselves another god. BTW, my father never received any blessings, only curses, losing eight sons to early death, his property, and businesses and marriage.
@matthewbeaman8315 Definitely not in the main stream Pentecostal movement. I do believe in healings and speaking in tongues because I've seen it and experienced the reality of it myself. I do, though, believe in what Paul instructed when he talks about proper order of speaking in tongues in service. I think that an issue with the Pentecostal movement is that, in several ways, we can go off how we feel rather than what the Bible actually says regarding something which is troubling.
Thank you so much for the message. God's providence is interesting. I just had a friendly debate with a Christian friend about this last night, suddenly this morning when I opened youtube I saw this live stream, and felt ministered. Praise God and thank you Matthew.
Had same issue after converting 7 years ago. Use to be a methodist, but based on the scriptures, it never sit well the high level of matriarchy in the church, not only the women pastors but the most of the church leaders were women, 90% of the gatherings were women as well. I tried steering the church towards the biblical guidance, but eventually I gave up because I realized it was all systemic and part of the core of the church. After some years of jumping from church to church, I found a baptist church and been there ever since. I also never supported the idea of leaving a church, I also believe we should stay and do our best correct what was wrong, but if it fails, then I agree we should make a decision that best honor the scriptures, even if it includes leaving.
I agree. Also followed a husbands desire to stay at a church long after it was clear that they were going in the wrong direction. Submitted to him, submitted to God that this was going to be my ministry for the foreseeable future. It wasn't long before the church pushed there a biblical envelope out too far For my husband to ignore it anymore. We talked it over with the pastor who was committed to these things that were unbiblical. We left on good terms, and found a church with excellent Bible teaching, adhering to scriptural principles of leader ship and conflict resolution. 25 years later, I am realizing that every church has a Blindspot and that the modern church has largely disobeyed Jesus because of the man-made doctrine of cessation. (Excesses in Pentecostal churches does not mean that the gifts are being faked, and that they stopped… It just means that there are churches that are disobeying Paul about how to run the church decently and in order). But I have no desire to cut and run for a "better" church. We have little pockets of "Woke Ness Monster," and fleeing is not the right answer to that either. Overall, people love the word of God and are hungry for more of it all the time. We have a lot of solid believers here still, the others have gone into the mission field, passed away, moved away, gone to start new churches. The leadership has been pretty healthy and there is a desire to maintain unity while letting people make their points of view known. I'm paying a lot more attention to what's going on here. The world has definitely affected us especially as a lot of young people are coming in to the church. They are bringing ideas from culture, and those need to be gently contrasted with what scripture says. Speaking the truth with love, kindness and enthusiasm - not divisive disrespect.
Used to be in an UMC church, and we got a woman pastor right before their liberal policies. She did not acknowledge the Bible as the source of spiritual authority or guidance. Her leadership would have quickly destroyed that church if they had not gotten rid of her and then separated from the UMC. She was a nice person but her theology was deeply flawed.
Thank you, for Speaking the TRUTH of GOD'S WORD! I have Spoken these Scriptures to people who have a Woman Pastor! They said, times have Changed ! I said, GOD WORD never Changes! They didn't Listen to me! The Bishop who or dained her used Galatians 3:28. I. Read abd Study GOD'S WORD, and this Scripture is about Justification! People do Not listen , so I Moved on!
Short answer- Who are you asking? God will tell you to stay or go according to his purpose. I went through this mess and God has me stick around long after I thought I should go, probably in hope that a certain man would step up.
I'm in the military deployed, and a new female Chaplain from a different country just arrived. 2 American male Chaplains are still here. They typically alternate services but announced today that she would be doing the next service. Do I ask her not to conduct service or just not attend the weeks that she speaks?
We had female preachers from time to time and just didn't attend those weeks. People notice and ask why. We used that as an opening to point to the Biblical position.
@@tylerthegrimm ehhh....idk if that's the right hill to die on. If this same woman is preaching false gospel and leading people astray then yes. But let's consider Jesus in the book of revelation. Jesus was angry and rebuked a church because a woman was teaching false doctrine, not that she was teaching in general. I think that at times we can get too concerned and angry with things that aren't supposed to be so elevated. Again, not vying for women pastors, but just making a valid point here.
Nay Settled at about 1100 B.C. The Christians of the first century had only the scriptures of the Old Testament. Many (I hope) knew the story of Deborah and the authority of a Judge. It was good enough for them. It should be good enough for us. ...the judges of Israel, whom I commanded to shepherd My people... In all places where I have walked with all Israel, have I spoken a word with any of the judges of Israel, whom I commanded to shepherd My people, saying, ‘Why have you not built Me a house of cedar?’ -excerpt 1 Chronicles 17 verse 6 NASB translation Full read time: 10 minutes postable here
@nancygermain6924, one shouldn’t change churches just because one verse is taught incorrectly. Nobody is perfect & all will make mistakes, in the pulpit & in the church as a whole. However, it’s when the pastor/church continually teaches incorrectly with no concern to teach God’s Word correctly, that it’s time to leave that church.
Excellent…but I don’t think modern Pentecostal churches have any kind of order or structure-- that’s why the woman ended up there. I grew up in one that was pretty Biblical, but 60 years later it’s very different.
Pontus Pilote was a decent man and he knew Jesus was a good Man. But if he set Jesus free he would have become unpopular with the people so he passed Jesus on. We have too many decent preachers scared to stand up for God and want to please the people and remain good in their sight. They need to pick a side. God's word or the people being satisfied. Take care
My sister has come to Christ after being in new age belief for a long time. She’s going to church regularly now and has invited me to go to hers. Unfortunately they have a female pastor. I pointed my sister to scripture on this but she doesn’t seem to care. The church website has about a 32 page document trying to justify (with crazy mental gymnastics) how scripture actually means that it’s ok for a female to be a pastor, just not the HEAD pastor. Yikes. We live in the Pittsburgh area. We really should just be going to your church.
The Christians of the first century had only the scriptures of the Old Testament. Many (I hope) knew the story of Deborah and the authority of a Judge. It was good enough for them. It should be good enough for us. ...the judges of Israel, whom I commanded to shepherd My people... In all places where I have walked with all Israel, have I spoken a word with any of the judges of Israel, whom I commanded to shepherd My people, saying, ‘Why have you not built Me a house of cedar?’ -excerpt 1 Chronicles 17 verse 6 NASB translation
@ Not even remotely the case that the early Christians only had that. They didn’t have female pastors. Paul’s letters were sent in that era. The early church fathers were absolutely 100% not condoning female pastors, if that’s what you’re trying to say.
@@Cortezuma I suggest my free informal postable essay on Deborah. This entire matter was settled at about 1100 B.C. Read time: 10 minutes Paul taught that he was a spiritual 'father'. Totally against what Jesus taught. Be careful of Paul's teachings.
@ So that’s what it boils down to. You’re someone who doesn’t believe the Bible and you’re here advocating female pastors based on something “settled” 1000 years after Paul. This is kind of exactly the argument this video addresses. Those who advocate female pastors tend to be anti-Bible. I trust the Bible, including the massive amount of it written by Paul.
@@Cortezuma 1100 years before Paul, the wife of Lappidoth, was judging Israel at that time. A woman could only be given the authority by God to execute a man for his sin, if women are spiritually equal to men. A Judge could judge homicide cases according to Deuteronomy. Therefore Deborah, as a Judge, could execute a man for his sin. A Judge's verdict could not be altered or appealed.
I have never found to be a problem to understand that Woman’s are not to preach in any church , they could teach some minor classes and to be the encouragement to young woman to help them to pure and if marriage to be submissive to the husband just like CHRIST IS TO THE FATHER.
God made His position clear through the Paul that women are not to possess ecclesiastical authority...period. Not over men, and not even over other ppl's children. God's government specifically forbids it. Men were created to be the leaders in society, not women. Women ruling is a sign that a nation is under a curse, and it's especially true with churches. It doesn't even matter if the woman is theologically correct. She is still rebelling against God's order!
We are all called to submit to God, whether men or women. The Bible describes several woman leaders, as they have been called. One of my pastors is a woman, and both she and I (and others) have struggled with it. It's clear that she was called to this service, and it shows in her fruits. Under the circumstances, there seems to be no reason to cause dissension. She is not woke or sliding by any means, after nearly 2 decades in her position. The Bible interprets the Bible - it is true in all. The discrepancies are a matter of context, intended audience, etc. You are correct - it is not up for debate. We are all growing in our walk, including my pastor. In the end, this is not a Salvation issue.
The Christians of the first century had only the scriptures of the Old Testament. Many (I hope) knew the story of Deborah and the authority of a Judge. It was good enough for them. It should be good enough for us. ...the judges of Israel, whom I commanded to shepherd My people... In all places where I have walked with all Israel, have I spoken a word with any of the judges of Israel, whom I commanded to shepherd My people, saying, ‘Why have you not built Me a house of cedar?’ -excerpt 1 Chronicles 17 verse 6 NASB translation
Even if the person going to this Pentecostal church was able to get the female pastor to step down it's still very bad for them to be in a church that upholds unbiblical soteriology. They should leave and find a strict confessional Reformed church.
I'm very supportive of girl bosses, but the church is where I too have to draw the line. As far as I'm concerned, God doesn't see the pastor as any more important than the women who cook the food for special meals.
Matthew what is your position on a divorced and remarried man being a deacon, elder or pastor? I know it says the husband of one wife. Or maybe you could do a video on that. Are there any instances where a divorced man can be in church leadership or ministry? My personal situation was an unbelieving wife initiated the divorce also with my wife now her ex husband did the same. So I would greatly appreciate your thoughts on this as we desire to serve in our church but do not want to step out of biblical authority. Thanks.
This topic can be so divisive, but also important. There are many scholars who interpret "husband of one wife" to be speaking of polygamy, not divorce and remarriage. Frankly, in my own study, I find that to make much more sense given the pagan normalcy of polygamy when these books were written by Paul. We know divorce is a sin, but is it so different that it is disqualifying when other sins are not? Tough question. When taken to its worst possible conclusions, you could legitimately have a situation where a man who lived as an unmarried homosexual prior to salvation qualifies for ministry when a man who got divorced before salvation cannot. Something not right about that. My church (of which I am an elder, not divorced) holds to the polygamy interpretation primarily, but out of respectful caution will not consider divorced elder/pastor candidates if said divorce happened while that couple were Christians.
He is an Unrepentant sinner living in Defiance of God and is to be Excommunicated, Ejected from the Church and Shunned until he Repents, cuts off the women whom he is in Adultery with, and returns to his First Wife!
@gregmcray yeah I would say that divorce and remarriage prior to salvation is *probably* different than post salvation. If an unbelieving spouse leaves you or you left an unbelieving spouse while you were also unbelieving and then get married and then convert you should probably remain as you are and if that's the case can probably be in the ministry. Not married to it but that's my take.
I had something happen like this in a different way. The main pastor was a man, but they started allowing a woman to baptize at our church. This is a non denominational church. I left immediately, especially since our children were at the time when they wanted to be baptized. We are now a completely different denomination.
@@ScribeAlicious In fairness and wisdom, consider this: 1Pe 3:1 Likewise, wives, be in subjection to your own husbands, so that if any do not obey the Word, they may also be won without the Word by the conduct of the wives, 1Pe 3:2 having witnessed your chaste behavior in the fear of God. 1Pe 3:3 Of whom let not be the adorning of garments, or outward braiding of hair and wearing of gold, or of putting on clothing, 1Pe 3:4 but let it be the hidden man of the heart, in that which is not corruptible, the meek and quiet spirit, which is of great price in the sight of God. 1Pe 3:5 For so once indeed the holy women hoping in God adorned themselves, being in subjection to their own husbands; 1Pe 3:6 as Sarah obeyed Abraham, calling him lord; whose children you became, doing good and fearing no terror. 1Pe 3:7 Likewise, husbands, live together according to knowledge, giving honor to the wife as to the weaker vessel, the female, as truly being co-heirs together of the grace of life, not cutting off your prayers.
I attended a Baptist church that called a non pastor woman a pastor, and they let her baptize, lead prayers, and more. I was extremely unhappy to learn she never attended seminary or Bible college, was a gossip, and believes false teachings. 😡👎 The male pastors seemed fine with it all. I walked away.
It’s a dangerous, slippery slope. The church I play the drums for has recently ordained female pastors. I’m passionate about using my gifts for His glory. Fortunately where my bride and I are actually members they’re biblical. I might be leaving the unbiblical congregation in 2025. 😢
I still have some questions regarding this issue: 1) Is 'leaving' the Church due to it going astray in this way Biblical? Do we find examples of this in Scripture, particularly in the New Testament? 2) When the Church was being taken over by false teachings in the Apostolic era, was this what the Apostles did or recommended? 3) If conservatives abandon the church, won't that lead to the church becoming even more liberal without any resistance? 4) Isn't this the strategy that has been adopted for decades and that has only led to the strengthening of liberalism within the churches and the weakening of historic Protestantism? I'm not talking about excommunication, I'm talking about voluntary departure.
I agree with Redeemed Zoomed on this subject. Though, I feel a bit of a hypocrite because I fled my United Methodist Church because the pastor was certified crazy. Then post covid the UMC a went off the rails. Meanwhile I found a Non Denomination church that I really like and feel at home in
The Christians being called to leave the synagogues that had once been their churches. Also, he’s not describing just walking out and leaving. He’s describing resistance until the only option to resist left is to leave.
@@daeuslamb8191 It is not the same. Early Christian separation in this case was due to a fundamental rejection of the core Christian faith, especially concerning the person and work of Jesus Christ. When churches or synagogues denied the divinity of Christ or His resurrection, for example, the early Christians had no choice but to separate, as such denials struck at the heart of the Gospel itself. In contrast, issues like women’s ordination or liberal theological tendencies within a church, while serious, often don't directly involve a rejection of the central tenets of the Christian faith. Many churches that adopt liberal practices, such as women in leadership or differing views on certain social issues, may still officially uphold orthodox doctrines like the Trinity, the deity of Christ, salvation by grace, and the authority of Scripture Even Matthew Everhard in one of his videos classified female ordination in the “false teaching” category and not in the “heresy” category.
@@daeuslamb8191 It is not the same. Early Christian separation in this case was due to a fundamental rejection of the core Christian faith, especially concerning the person and work of Jesus Christ. When churches or synagogues denied the divinity of Christ or His resurrection, for example, the early Christians had no choice but to separate, as such denials struck at the heart of the Gospel itself. In contrast, issues like women’s ordination or liberal theological tendencies within a church, while serious, often don't directly involve a rejection of the central tenets of the Christian faith. Many churches that adopt liberal practices, such as women in leadership or differing views on certain social issues, may still officially uphold orthodox doctrines like the Trinity, the deity of Christ, salvation by grace, and the authority of Scripture Even Matthew Everhard in one of his videos classified female ordination in the “false teaching” category and not in the “heresy” category.
@@daeuslamb8191 It’s important to note that early Christian separation often occurred due to the rejection of core Christian doctrines, especially regarding the person and work of Jesus Christ. When churches or synagogues denied His divinity or resurrection, the early Christians had no choice but to separate, as these were central to the Gospel. In contrast, issues like women’s ordination or certain liberal theological perspectives, while significant, don’t necessarily involve rejecting core Christian doctrines. Many churches that have these practices still uphold orthodox beliefs like the Trinity and the deity of Christ, As Matthew Everhard discusses in one of his videos, while female ordination may be a serious theological concern, it is not necessarily classified as a 'heresy' but rather a deviation from traditional teaching.
This is not difficult. I will not sit under a woman pastor. Nor will my wife. I’m not saying a woman cannot speak into my life but they will not be given the role of teacher of Gods word.
Thank you very much for that. I have two questions that came to my mind as I was listening to your advice. 1) With church membership, isn't a woman given authority in the local church with voting rights? Especially, where there is a majority of women. 2) When advising the woman to pursue the chain of actions you've recommended, when is the woman crossing the line concerning silence in the church. She is requesting the elders study something which is fair enough. Then she is attempting to get the congregation onside to overthrow the elders position (granted, that it is unbiblical) and also influence the members and their conscience (again, granted that her position is valid). Many thanks, Stephen
Didn't John Knox write about this sort of thing? I have shared a link to this video with some friends of mine, as the first steps toward this practice is starting to appear in my former denomination (I moved suburbs and could not bring myself to apply for membership in another congregation from that denomination.)
Great video Dr. Everhard! Just a bit of pushback as a complementarian who agrees with this video. How do you reconcile these verses with other passages about women prophesying (Joel 2:28; Acts 2:17, 21:9). I feel like more thoughtful egalitarian critics would not use Gal. 3:28, but would rather make a more nuanced case from these passages. Again, I completely agree with this video, I was just curious how you would respond to a more nuanced critique. I appreciate your insight on this subject!
Hello, I'm not Pastor Matt. :) I would think the Holy Spirit verses do explain God's grace/activity/power in both men and women's lives. As in: Prophesying/gift enabledment equals leadership. It could be however not necessarily about elders/teacher/leader roles. A person can function in a gift, but that doesn't provide them a leadership role in a church. Using a gift does not equal Leadership. I belong to a Denomination that justifies egalitarianism using many of those Holy Spirit verses. For whatever that is worth.
Gifting and Office are not necessarily tied together. Was not Deborah a prophetess, but Barak still commanded the army? And he was criticized for not being willing to go without Deborah. Phillip (I think, going off memory) had a bunch of daughters who prophesied, yet they did not run the church. Prophets never led the country of Israel, with the sole exception being Moses, and none would be raised up like him until Jesus. I am not a pastor, but those are the lines of argumentatioin I would develop against that suggestion.
@@thinktank8286 The Pulpit Commentary: 1Co_14:34 Let your women keep silence in the Churches. St. Paul evidently meant this to be a general rule, and one which ought to be normally observed; for he repeats it in 1Ti_2:11, 1Ti_2:12. At the same time, it is fair to interpret it as a rule made with special reference to time and circumstances, and obviously admitting of exceptions in both dispensations (Jdg_4:4; 2Ki_22:14; Neh_6:14; Luk_2:36; Act_2:17; Act_21:9), as is perhaps tacitly implied in 1Co_11:5. But… to be under obedience (Eph_5:22; Col_2:18; Tit_2:5; 1Pe_3:1). Christianity emancipated women, but did not place them on an equality with men. As also saith the Law (Gen_3:16; Num_30:3-12).
It says in 1 Corinthians 14 that all are eligible to prophesy but in James 3 let not many of you be teachers. That pretty effectively rebuts the canard that prophesying verses justify preaching and teaching.
The one push back i have here is the idea that egalitarianism is the slippery slope to much worse things. Mainly, because in the pentecostal world a great many church ordain women that have remained conservative .. AOG for instance has ordained women. I note too that your former church, the EPC, ordains women!
My former Church, I attended for 4 years before my family and I moved to another town. I came to Christ in that church and although I attend a different church, I consider it one of my spiritual homes.The situation there was unique, there was a lead male pastor and female assistant pastor. Before the male pastor retired, he caused alot of strife and division in the church by introducing progressive teaching and it was the female Pastor whose teaching remained Biblically sound.The male pastor retired and the female leads the church now and there had been a restoration. So I do not care who leads the church as long as the teaching is focused on Christ.
It’s so sad to see Christians try to interpret this verse in the way they want it to say for the sake of feminism. I live with my parents and I’m a young adult. I left the charismatic church my parents started going to because growing up (not southern) baptist it didn’t seem right, and I hadn’t even heard this before until I asked a fellow Christian about it and they lead me to the verse in 1 Timothy. I was shocked a “Bible believing” church blatantly disobeyed Scripture. I struggled a lot at the same time learning the doctrines of grace after being raised in Arminianism. I’m now going to a very excellent church which preaches the doctrines of grace with a close friend (baptist because that’s what I grew up with and I do confess I have strong convictions on immersion and baptism like Jesus had but otherwise I greatly benefit from “true” reformed teachings). Unfortunately my mother doesn’t like to have controversial biblical discussions and my father (who led us to the charismatic church) is greatly deceived. He thinks these passages mean back then women weren’t “intelligent enough” to preach. The main pastor isn’t a woman at their church but they do have a woman preach on Mother’s Day and have a woman “children’s pastor”. I’ve tried to show my father the truth of Scripture and send him resources from Ligonier and other sermons, but I believe his heart is hardened. Please pray for my parents who are under this deception, especially my father who is my spiritual leader. The fruit of his life has become sparse since we left my childhood church and I now question his salvation at times, wondering if it was all a show when I was a child. I’m so genuinely worried most of all for his salvation. His view of Scripture and even Christ is lower than “dreams and visions and prophetic words” falsely claimed to be from the Lord. I fear he offers strange fire and even if he has genuine saving faith, he is weak spiritually and deeply in need of sound doctrine. Please Pastor Everhard and fellow brothers and sisters in Christ, pray for my father. Pray his eyes are opened to the truth of Scripture, not only on this issue but also on the false teachings of the charismatic church and speaking new “words from the Lord.” Pray if he does not truly trust Christ for his salvation God will bring him to repentance and faith with a new, regenerated heart. I love my father deeply. Also please pray my parents come to see the truth of the doctrines of grace. My mom is very against election and predestination, and it is only my boyfriend and his God-fearing family who taught me these great truths. Thank you 😊 In Christ, Sylvia
I think Matthew's advice is solid, esp. the part about verifying your Church's bylaws, rules, etc., regarding this issue. You have Holy Scripture on your side. What do they have on theirs?
Thank you for the Biblical views. I am what is called a baby Christian and looking for a church. A couple of the churches in my area have female pastors. Now I have the scriptural basis for ruling out these churches.
you wrote: Now I have the scriptural basis for ruling out these churches. No you don't. The Christians of the first century had only the scriptures of the Old Testament. Many (I hope) knew the story of Deborah and the authority of a Judge. It was good enough for them. It should be good enough for us. ...the judges of Israel, whom I commanded to shepherd My people... In all places where I have walked with all Israel, have I spoken a word with any of the judges of Israel, whom I commanded to shepherd My people, saying, ‘Why have you not built Me a house of cedar?’ -excerpt 1 Chronicles 17 verse 6 NASB translation Full read time: 10 minutes postable here
I personally don't believe that God can't give the gift of teaching and leadership to women. I have had to leave a church once due to a pastor who was a man. I have also experienced a wonderful pastor who was a woman. If you have the gift, you have the gift. ❤ There were many women who were leaders in the Bible.
@amcall, God can & does give the gift of teaching & leadership to women, however, he/God forbids women to pastor/preach or have any other leadership position over men in the church.
@@tanner5658 actually I was just joking. I’d NEVER go to a church that had a female pastor or any type of Bible class that has a female teacher. If they want to teach women or kids, great.
Can I just ask a side question? In 1 Timothy 3:2 where it says "the husband of one wife", can I take that to mean "a man who has only ever had one wife"? As in never been divorced and remarried?
God not congregation calls people to ministry and can and do call who ever God dam well wants to call. We have no right to tell God who can call. Men,women, rich,poor, young, old, homosexual,heterosexual, all people can be called to ministry
(2:25) “Normally I really hesitate to tell somebody to leave their church; in fact, that’s not my gut instinct. . . I typically don’t recommend that because I have a very covenantal view of what it means to be a believe as well as a covenantal view of what it means to be a church member in general.” Okay, forgive my ignorance, but what does that mean, exactly? What’s the relationship between being “covenantal,” and being less likely to encourage people to leave their church?
Although I respect Pastor Everhard's advice on this issue, my gut sense is that it's not going to work out. My gut sense is that you should find a more Biblical church. However, here is a compromise: I would test the waters by trying out step #1 of what Pastor Everhard recommends. The response to that step will show how the rest of the process would go. If I got a negative response to the first step, I would start looking for a new church.
I think his point is that it's honorable to do everything within your power as a church member to help the church that you covenanted to be a part of. Even if it's unlikely to work out
Compromising with God's government has NEVER yielded positive results. Go ahead and look in the Bible, see if you can point out a single instance where the Israelites or members of God's Church abandoned His government and got positive results. I would not wait, especially with the stakes being as serious as they are.
@@tbrickman No, the honorable thing to do would be to leave. A professing Christian's loyalty is supposed to be to God, not a church. A person who gives their loyalty to a church is not following God. What good is it to be that loyal to a church that isn't being led by God or is even getting any revelation from God? So many "Christians" like Matthew give their loyalty to ppl instead of the truth, and it's exactly why they're deceived.
Matthew 28:19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit The great commission here applies to both men and women. It involves women preaching and baptizing. This conflict with Paul on 1 Timothy 2 and Jesus is greater than Paul. Hence we choose Jesus over Paul in this case.
Our problem in our church is it has lost a lot of members to churches that tech non Biblically in our area. And right now give men to twenty women. They are being allowed to run the show because of their majority. I can't just leave the church as I'm still in a place of authority and am trying to work through to get more congregants in our church. But they are stuck in the ways that are the reason many left and a lot of our was COVID as well. 😮
I totally agree with you that advocating female pastors is the first step toward theological progressivism. My approach toward the situation you described, however, would be different. After advising the person to discuss the matter with the leaders, if there was little hope of a change, then the person should quietly leave the church. My thought is that it would be better to quietly leave than to openly fight. Thank you for addressing this issue. This Baptist pastor appreciates your Presbyterian ministry!
I respectfully submit that the first step is a female worship leader, missions leader, or a Christian women’s author who believes it’s ok to speak to an audience that includes men. Didn’t this begin by making excuses for those things? By the time a woman is in the role of pastor, it’s obvious that the good men around her dropped the ball long before.
I've spoken to ethical ladies in various bible studies groups and they all disagree with women having to be silent in a church etc. I always asked if this is their sin nature and they didn't think it was at all. So I just don't know about it.
It depends on the Pentecostal church's affiliation, for example, Foursquare Pentecostals have always allowed a woman Senior Pastors. Assembly of God and COGIC used to not allow it, yet they are now. Holiness Pentecostals would not allow a woman to be in this position. It also depends on the Presbyterian church's affiliation, Pastor Everhard is Presbyterian PCA, Presbyterian USA has women Pastors, and Senior woman Pastors, with their Liberal Full Communion with other Liberal denominations, (ECLA etc.). Pastor Everhard hit this on the head near the end!! Also, Pastor Everhard did not mention whether the woman is married or not!!! That changes the whole idea.
There is a lot of pastor worship going on in churches, they don't read the bible or care to follow what it says. Jesus said in John 14, If you love me keep my commandments. Then in John 15, you are my friends if you do whatsoever I command you.
Sadly financial realities are a huge contributing factor. My small village has 3 major denomination churches(Lutheran, Methodist, UCC) made of up elderly congregants. They can pay a single female a much smaller salary than a man with a wife and children. Doesn't make it Biblically correct, but this is mostly why it is tolerated.
Great video. Any thoughts on Jentezen Franklin out of Gainesville, GA? Seems like a good candidate for your next compilation of worshiptainment churches.
So the wife of the founding pastor became the de facto pastor without a due call process, and then she tried to install her son as the next pastor? This church has bigger issues than the gender of the one in the pulpit.
Does the woman who wrote the letter to you have a believing husband? If so, should she speak with him first and ask him to take the lead to handle this difficult situation? Like you read, let her ask her husband at home.
Hi Matthew, I have a question. I think the steps you described for this situation are really good. Whilst the process is happening, assuming it will take some weeks, would you say that the person involved here should continue to attend Sunday service when the female is preaching? I would love to hear more teaching from you in what exactly women can do in a church service and how you back it up biblically. This is something I have really struggled to understand. I have a very clear understanding that women cannot be a pastor or preach. However in our church (Presbyterian in Australia) the women will pray, read the Bible and sing all from the ‘stage’. How do I really know for sure if these are ok for women to do?
(not this channel) Settled at about 1100 B.C. The Christians of the first century had only the scriptures of the Old Testament. Many (I hope) knew the story of Deborah and the authority of a Judge. It was good enough for them. It should be good enough for us. ...the judges of Israel, whom I commanded to shepherd My people... In all places where I have walked with all Israel, have I spoken a word with any of the judges of Israel, whom I commanded to shepherd My people, saying, ‘Why have you not built Me a house of cedar?’ -excerpt 1 Chronicles 17 verse 6 NASB translation Full essay read time: 10 minutes postable here
AMEN ON ALL THAT!! But 13:00 minutes in has been proven true time and time again. Thank you for this Biblically correct video! Thank you also for your comment starting at 15:48. Understood. 🙌🏼 TO GOD BE THE GLORY 🙌🏼
I agree with the stance of Pastor Matt, and everything he recommends is based on solid Biblical principles. But it strikes me as a little naive. Churches like this typically do not have any elders; if they even have deacons or board members, these people have almost zero authority, and the only reason they are there is that they have already bought into this kind of thing. Any appeal to these, or any authorities in the denomination, will face a well-established rationale for this practice (however unbiblical it may be). Your chances of success (getting the pastor to resign) are practically nil. Your chances for introducing strife into this body are pretty strong. Is it worth it? Maybe it is. I don't know.
Really appreciated your advice for how to handle corruption in the church. I was recently talking with my wife about women teaching bible-related classes. For example, Bible studies, Christian book studies, parenting classes, etc. Wondering what you would think of that? While it could lead to acting or posturing as an unofficial pastor, it wouldn’t need to (and you could have that problem with a man too.) I think there’s some legitimate biblical precedent for that, but possibly biblical precedent to be cautious too??? I’d like to think biblically about this, but aware that my instincts are heavily trained by the various and often contradictory subcultures I’m a part of.
I suggest my free scripturally-based essay on Deborah. Men and women are perfectly equal spiritually. She was a pastor, according to the scriptures. This is how the Judges are described in Chronicles, by God. ...the judges of Israel, whom I commanded to shepherd My people... In all places where I have walked with all Israel, have I spoken a word with any of the judges of Israel, whom I commanded to shepherd My people, saying, ‘Why have you not built Me a house of cedar?’ -excerpt 1 Chronicles 17 verse 6 NASB translation
I see you have thought this through very well and I agree with you. However, I have a question you didn’t address. Apparently, there are no men in the church who will step up to fill the pulpit, what do you do in the interim of the woman stepping down and the church calling a new pastor? Apparently, the church does not want to ask other churches for help, or they would have done so already. Does the church discontinue meeting until a new pastor is called?
No. They could follow the early church example of simply having shorter services where men read a passage of scripture to the church. There is no reason to A: appoint a female pastor or B: Stop church for the lack of a man to preach. Trust God and that church will stand or fall according to His will. We don’t make excuses or seek means to justify disobeying a command of God
Interesting! I once attended a church on one of the smaller Hawaiian islands; it was run by women as there were no males in the congregation. They did the evangelizing, administration, teaching, preaching and Bible study. If ANY male showed up for worship he was immediately propelled to the pulpit!!
The Bible says that _God_ is supposed to appoint the ministers. If an organization appoints its own ministers, that is a dead giveaway that said organization is not being led by God. That's why the "men won't step up" arguments are highly illogical. God _always_ ordains men, and He _always_ prepare them for the task first. We see this throughout scripture with Moses, Aaron, Samuel, Elisha, the original apostles, and Jesus Himself.
Matthew, what are your thoughts on the "of the Nazarene" church? We found one we may want to go to, but before I bring my family there, I'd appreciate your insight. Is their theology solid?
I went to a Nazarene Church many years. I like fact that they believe you can lose your salvation. But them allowing a women to preach I am against. I finally left the church because they were doing nothing about transgenders. i got tired of seeing women in the men's bathroom. They also allow divorce and remarriage which is adultery in the church. It was so bad I could not invite people to the church. The messages were becoming more and more watered down. It is extremely difficult to find a good church. I can not find any. They will not change. Remember a bad can affect your children. Our time here is very short. Many Christians will fall away. I feel I have lost 6 out 7 of my kids. 3 are atheist. Why? Because a lot of church doesn't believe the word of God.
Hold on, you are telling a woman to go to the elders and give them instruction? How is that different than a female pastor? Would she not be usurping the authority of the elders by instructing them?
If your elders were affirming sin, will it not be biblical to bring the offense according to Matthew 18? It is a fault which should be brought to the brother, the bible does not forbid women from doing this.
@@emmanuellaford5868 If you gave this advise to me, maybe... but would you give this advise to a Christian who was not firmly rooted in the Bible? Could be dangerous.
I think my first question would be why when the SR Pastor died the successor had to be within the family? I do not know if the SR Pastor had more than one son but perhaps the son did not want it or was not qualified therefore it fell back on the wife. BUT if that is the case that church leadership can not consider anyone else because of being confined to only the founding Pastors immediate family as successors which is a problem in itself but if that is the case then you have your answer. Its more less keeping it within the family, boxed into that family dynamic that they can not consider anyone else to take on that Pastoral role in which I would gracefully leave.
I agree that women should not be called to be pastors or priests. However, any applied theology of women in ministry, even teaching roles, must take all of the New Testament into account. Consider this verse from Acts 18:26 - "He [Apollos] began to speak boldly in the synagogue, but when *_Priscilla_* and Aquila heard him, *_they_* took him aside and explained to him the way of God more accurately." So here you have Priscilla, a woman, listed before her husband and instructing a man. As for the advice, I find it is idealistic. Not many people could follow all those steps. The best advice may be to pray about what she should do, and then follow her conscience and God's leading.
@CaroleRubano I did not claim that Priscilla was a pastor. Did you read my whole comment? I started by saying that I am opposed to women as pastors. If I thought that Priscilla was a pastor, why would I still be opposed to female pastors?
None of what you showed authorizes women to be teachers. Priscilla was NOT instructing Apollos. The account clearly says that _she assisted her husband_ in explaining doctrines to Apollos. Your advice is woefully dangerous because the Bible consistently warn against relying on human reasoning. Praying before making a conscience based decision won't make it a bible based decision!
@theeternalsbeliever1779 no, it doesn't clearly say that Priscilla _assisted_ her husband! And the only "advice" I gave was to consider the whole New Testament and to pray about what the person should do. As I began in my original comment with saying that I am opposed to female pastors, I would assume that people would understand that the remaining options would be to take steps like Pastor Matthew is recommending or leave a situation that is unlikely to change. Nor did I suggest that she base her decision on human reasoning.
People are going to get upset because it smacks of the whole approach of using questionable microdata to overturn clear macrodata. You cannot base doctrine on something as wispy as Priscilla's name being mentioned before her husband's name. Having said that, what this verse really demonstrates is that the Biblical sex role principles involved do not restrict private communications.
Can you address the question about female deacons? I have a translation (Nasb I think) that uses the term deaconess. The context was a deacon and his wife. Like when a deacon is ordained that the wife is included. Your thoughts?
Their is no greek word that translates as “deaconess” that is completely made up by some goofy translator who was interpreting the text rather than translating. But to keep it clear we have no example of a female deacon in all of scripture. Some say Pheobe was in Romans 16:1 but the fact is “diakonos” (which is the greek word we translate as “deacon” and means “servant”) is used elsewhere to identify the Apostles and Jesus Himself. Other than that, in 1 Timothy 3 the standards of deaconship are given and it is almost entirely referring to men. I say almost because there is a single verse that says “women should likewise be….” In fairness the greek does not say “wives” it just says “women.” If Paul wanted to say “wives” or “deacon’s wives” then the greek would be literally “their women” showing ownership but he doesn’t… he just says “women” but simultaneously it seems a bit out of place in the fuller context if he isn’t talking about the deacon’s wives. I would conclude that it is a conscience issue but I personally believe the argument is stronger on the side of no female deacons. Deacon’s wives do serve with their husbands, but they themselves are not deacons, they are simply their husband’s helper
I then thought it the more needful to get at the facts behind their statements. Therefore I placed two women, called “deaconesses,” under torture, but I found only a debased superstition carried to great lengths, so I postponed my examination, and immediately consulted you. -excerpt Pliny the Younger’s Letter to Emperor Trajan Regarding the Christians about 111 A.D.
I occasionally go to a Wesleyan church which has women pastors. They are really nice people, but I disagree on the scriptural basis for women pastors. Still, the church and their music are beautiful. They don't seem to give expository sermons at all. I tend to lean toward trying to work on these people from the inside. I'm certainly not going to just never see them again because we disagree on this.
The modern idea of pastors is so far removed from the New Testament anyway. Pastors (shepherds) are listed as a separate spiritual gift to teaching - yet the vast majority of pastors are primarily teachers in the modern church. They're also often leaders, and in many churches, unfortunately they're the highest authority (which according to the New Testament, lies with the elder/presbytos or overseer/episkopos). I have argued fairly successfully in my local congregation that the role of a Pastor is more like a Christian counsellor - one to one conversations with members of the flock who need gentle guidance and to help those who are grieving, dealing with marital or familial/friendship relationship issues, etc. etc... but not making decisions with regard to church discipline. I don't see any reason why this person could not be female (though our guy is male). The elders are the true church leadership, should always exist in plurality (best to have at least three, though one may become considered a "first among equals" - my grandfather became like this in his church, because of his experience and the way he operated - always Scripture first, always gentle yet firm in his decisions). They must always be male. Teachers - I am from the Open Brethren tradition, so we don't have a Teaching Pastor (we don't have the same guy preaching every week or even every second week). We have a small team, guided by the elders, who arrange the topics/passages into series and approach appropriate people to deliver sermons. My particular congregation allows women to preach - because it is considered to be under the authority of the male eldership, who bear full responsibility for everything that is preached in our building, whether that is delivered by a male or female. We also don't consider the person in the pulpit on a Sunday morning to have any authority over the congregation - when was the last time someone told you, from the pulpit, to directly do something? There are plenty of Open Brethren congregations who don't allow women to preach - and we don't consider ourselves in any way to be in schism with them. One of the core aspects of the Open Brethren tradition is that our congregations are entirely separate in their governance - the highest authority is the elders, and they only "have jurisdiction" over their local assembly/congregation. We do have an overarching administration organization, but this has no say on our local practices, rather, it's so we can fund students (like me) to do higher level biblical studies to enrich our preaching, and it's also the entity that operates several camps for both church community use and as an evangelical tool (a cheap place for anyone to send their child for a week in school holidays for fun and gospel). Personally, I'd be just as comfortable in an Open Brethren assembly that doesn't allow female preaching as I would in the one I am in that does - though I am a man, so it's pretty easy for me to say that. To me, it's a case of submitting to the decision of the leaders God placed over the assembly in Christ, and it's a very non-core issue. If they brought in female eldership, I'd be much less comfortable though (as every Open Brethren assembly where that's happened in NZ has gone strange really quick).
Brother, I agree with your sound council to this woman. Reasoned, biblical, orthodox, kind, and loving. I do have a rub…Why did you switch between the NKJV to the ESV to make two points without disclosing that you had to switch versions to support those points? My concern is if she tries to lift these exact verses and bring them to her “pastor” she can be set up for having to cherry pick versions to make the point. That’s okay as long as she is equipped to say the NKJV renders this verse better and the ESV this one. Why didn’t you disclose the version switch-a-roo?
She's just going to need to leave the church. The female "pastor" isn't even the biggest issue; the other false teachings of Charismatic churches are a bigger problem. But if she does confront the "pastor", she needs to take 1 or 2 witnesses with her.
@@conceptualclarityas bad as that is, I'm personally troubled with their obsession with "sign" gifts, to the point that many claim you can't really be saved unless you speak in tongues. I'm not a cessationist as such, but I don't believe I've ever witnessed real supernatural gifts in a charismatic church. I've seen chaotic services with many of the congregation speaking gibberish at once (with no one to "translate"), and I've even seen "healers" perform sleazy parlor tricks (such as "leg lengthening"). I've seen churches so obsessed with "gifts" that the name of Jesus is barely mentioned, and barely a Bible verse read in services.
@@michaelnoble2432 my experience among charismatics and Pentecostals has been that the idea that people who don't speak in tongues are not saved is an aberrant viewpoint. I have experienced real supernatural gifts in my Church of God including true prophecies and receiving a really powerful and crucial physical healing. There's no doubt that there is a lot of crap Christianity and charismatics definitely have their share. My concern is on the basis of 1 Corinthians 14:37 I think that women pastors and those who are personally implicated in that practice have put themselves on very shaky ground to be prophets. When prophets are directly addressed in the scripture in a "hey you" fashion and that passage is reasoned away with third-rate exegesis (such as all the mining of the final chapters of Paul's epistles for imaginary women preachers) I think that's a really serious spiritual problem.
I wonder what you think about the position that male leadership is a result of a fall that should be redeemed? 1 Tim 2 is obviously not a cultural statement, but it does mention both creation and the fall.
@ My question specifically involves 1 Tim 2:14. Citing 2:13 is literally the worst answer to the question. For the record I do not think female elders are biblical.
The Fall is irrelevant. A woman could only be given the authority by God to execute a man for his sin, if women are spiritually equal to men. A Judge could judge homicide cases according to Deuteronomy. Therefore Deborah, as a Judge, could execute a man for his sin. A Judge's verdict could not be altered or appealed. A Judge was REQUIRED in scripture to judge only the hardest of cases. Refusal to accept a Judge's verdict on any matter, resulted in execution, according to Deuteronomy. A Judge was cleared to teach from scripture as he/she gave a verdict, according to Deuteronomy. Since in Judges 4, men went to Deborah to be judged, a woman could teach men, even in the Old Covenant in a public setting. Full read time: 10 minutes postable here
As a Christian man, I would not be a member of a church with a female pastor. Not out of sexism or anything like that. Soley from what is taught in scripture.
a woman taking the role of Lead Elder in any church is a sure indication of their disregard for God's Word...run as fast as you can...
Curious as you say "Lead" elder. Does that mean you agree that women could be what some would call a co/assoc pastor or a deacon?
I stand by the truth that a woman is not supposed to be the head, therefore she cannot be the lead pastor of a church or be the main feeder of a congregation. But a woman who is submitted can teach on occasion as long as she is not usurping authority to do so, and even serve as a deacon like Pheobe in Romans 16.
@@beaberean3286 Yes. She can teach but it depends who and the context. Surely, she can teach women and kids at Church. As to outside of Church, she can share the Gospel to unbelievers. But that's pretty much it for women. Or maybe there's also exceptions that appeals to logic on rare occasions. Like she can rectify a man who makes an unbiblical statement if that's necessary. But even though, it's not truly 'teaching' as we mean it. At the end of the day, no. They can't teach. Saying the contrary would be defending a heresy that is unbiblical and have no historical support as there never was a female priest before the XIX century (except among heretics).
@@beaberean3286women are not to teach or preach to men, they can to children and women though. It's also unbiblical for women to have a position of authority over men
I went to a church that eventually ended up with three women pastors. It was a dumpster fire so I left.
I too left a church that all of a sudden had 2 lady preachers. I fought for truth for so long until I eventually gave up on it.
@@michaelclark2458don’t hide up you can still pray!
You’re bang on here, female leadership is the start of the slide
The start of the slide is men not stepping up to their God- given responsibility to be effective and godly preachers, teachers and shepherds in Christ's church. Women step up to fill the vacuum - and men are relieved of their responsibility. Nothing good comes from that.
Except in all those fruitful ministries they lead.
The start of the slide is men not stepping up to their God- given responsibility to be effective and godly preachers, teachers and shepherds in Christ's church. Women step up to fill the vacuum - and men are relieved of their responsibility. Nothing good comes from that.
Yes next thing you know it's homosexuality being promoted
@@revsolutionWhich would be who and where ?
The Methodist church I went to had a woman pastor. She was the worst. We got into an argument because she told me I was wrong for not out dating after being freshly widowed. She also made fun of me for crying at communion. She told me I need to be happy and not depressed. She really needs a course in bereavement.
I found a really good church now (though it’s non denominational 😮). May not be my ideal style of worship, but I’m feeling fed.
My brother run away, better go to the mountains seeking the Lord😂!
You've got THE Church (God's) and everything else. Denomination in a church is not required nor necessary. I'd say how well you know The Word of God is far more important. Reading or listening to Scripture outside of church is a must.
AME church ordain women pastor, bishop,elder,shepherd,
overseer😢😢😢 judgment start at the house of God😢
Proverbs 21:19 It is better to dwell in the wilderness, than with a contentious and an angry woman.
Break away from a Church with a woman preacher
Female preacher aside, I don’t think this is the correct way to go about choosing your next teaching elder. It is not a dynasty.
@shazzer1976, exactly. Pastor is not an inherited position.
Short answer, leave that church asap.
This particular situation is a difficult one. It would be wise to first try to address it as he explained. People these days seem to have zero commitment to the people with whom they worship. They change churches like they're changing their shoes. That's a problem in and of itself.
But first use the Matthew 18 approach to conflict resolution that way you’ve covered your bases biblically
@@Yesica1993confront the pastor and hope she steps down so you can stay? No. That won’t work 😂
@@JC-sj2pd I agree Mt. 18 is the best approach. I do not know about membership in Penecostal churches, but I believe that if a person makes a vow or a covenant with his congregation to support its ministry, simply leaving is wrong. It is fair in a situation like this to try to help the pastor understand what the Bible says and let them know this is the reason for your departure and that your reason is a serious reason, not simply a personal issue you have with them. Furthermore, it is rude to just to leave without any explanation to the pastor, that is very discourteous. Pastors, or in this case a sister in Christ, are human too and should be treated with respect.
@@JC-sj2pd -- Matthew 18 has to do with one believer sinning against another; it has nothing to do with how to deal with false teaching by the congregation's leadership.
Methodist in worldwide is one of the aggressive denomination in promoting women pastor to serve as church leaders.
I attended a Baptist church for several months this year before I found out one of the pastors, a woman, never went to seminary or Bible college.
Mrs Notapastor ran the childrens programs and womens programs and was one of two women the site pastor absolutely adored.
She called herself pastor 'Linda' (not her real name), and most others at the church, including male pastors, referred to her verbally and in emails as pastor 'Linda'.
She sat in on an extremely private counseling session with a male pastor and me _because I thought she was a pastor_ in which I discussed abuse within the church I suffered as a child, and I found out _after_ that appointment that she's not a pastor, had no counseling training, and she's a gossip.
She wasn't a pastor's wife, either. Her husband helped run the children's ministry.
I've never liked or trusted females in leadership, and this added to my many negative experiences.
Of actual pastors and priests who are women, I also have nothing good to say.
Not even one I've ever spoken with became a church leader because they felt God call them, for example, and not one of them produced good fruit, even over decades in "ministry".
At 84 plus years of age, my Mom was attending a small Methodist church. She wasn't too pleased that the pastor was a woman. But even better, she wrote a note to the pastor flat out telling her she had no clue what the gospel was about and had no business being a pastor. We're never too old to be used by the Lord.
I strongly suspect that "Linda" was present if you are a female who was being counseled by a male pastor. Especially over abuse issues. But putting a known gossip into a private counseling situation doesn't say a lot about the wisdom of the pastor. Although to be fair, I've known Women department leaders who seemed to have the pastor wrapped around their little fingers. People believe what they want to believe about people that they like just as much as they believe things about people that they don't like.
If you can make “I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet.” 1 Timothy 2:12 to mean “I DO permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain in active leadership.” then why stop there? If you can make that verse say the opposite of what it says, why not make any other verse say the opposite of what it says if you don't like it?
I mean, Calvinists already do this with “whosoever will” but we’re not going to talk about that huh🤷♂️
@parksideevangelicalchurch2886, unfortunately many preachers/pastors try & make the Bible say something that it actually doesn’t say.
@@DerekCulpepper-vu3cd well, if this was the case, why does Priscilla teach Apollos regarding the Holy Spirit. Her name is mentioned first which establishes primacy. Also, Priscilla and her husband had a church together. You need to read the whole Bible in order to be a complete Christian and you need to see the things Jesus was doing that were different. Who was the first evangelist? A woman….
@@michaelbrickley2443 Are you stating that women should be Pastors?
@matthewperry2767, women CAN BE pastors and were until the 3rd century.
Sounds like a mess. I'd just leave that Church.
I attended a church that had a male lead pastor, male assistant pastor, and a woman pastor for woman only. She would pastor a class called, " help for hurting women". For woman who were emotionally hurting from abuse. She would teach the Bible courses, lead women to Jesus, pray and spiritually counsel them. Biblically that is acceptable. She didn't stand in for the male pastors.
That would not be a “Pastor/ Elder/Shepherd” role. That’s the role women should be doing, ministering to other women and children but women are NOT to be an office holder. All you need to do is read the qualifications for elders and deacons. There shouldn’t be separate pastors for men, women, children, singles, elderly, etc… The elders are shepherds of the whole congregation though some may be more gifted in preaching then others, all are to be teachers and shepherds of the flock. Churches are bringing in business models instead of being concerned with what the Bible has said on these matters of leadership and worship. We know women and men can be equal in intelligence and even giftings but God in His perfect sovereign all wise purpose and plan has instituted an order in the church and home. It may look strange to the world but we need to trust and obey our Lord and Savior in this. No. Women. Pastors.
- The pressure is going to increase. There are banks that are refusing to to make loans to organizations that are not following DEI recommendations. The church has some big decisions ahead: Obey Christ or follow culture.
Exactly right on the Scriptures! The temporary wisdom of our culture is not truth - the Scriptures are the truth.
Thank you for taking on such a difficult issue from a sound biblical view.
1 Cor 11 also covers the authority of men over women as well. 11:10 "For this reason a woman should have a symbol of authority on her head, because of the angels"
Women usurping the authority of men in the church is equivalent to man usurping the authority of God, since Christ is the head of every man, and husband is the head of the wife. If marriage symbolizes Christ and the church, then the woman usurping the authority of the church is the same.
Not the same.
This is why I've always felt that the Russian Orthodox Church (& others) got that point right. Modest head coverings for women need to be brought back in more western churches.
I found myself in a very similar situation. I’m a Baptist missionary in a mostly non Christian setting. The local church replaced their retiring pastor with a woman. She’s a great person, loves the Lord, and is not an activist. Still, i know what the Bible teaches. The hard part is there are not a lot of options nearby, and there are very few people who could be pastor.
So you left and study The Word of God at home or you remain and excuse it?
So you stayed and learned from her?
When I was in China it was the same. I think it’s best to worship with other believers and be brave enough to disagree and let iron sharpen iron. If there was a choice for a more biblical pastor I would take it.
@@Sujowi I voiced my concerns from the beginning, but was ignored. Half the church was against it. The other half said they didn't like it but didn't have another option. We stepped out on as good of terms as possible. I miss that church a lot. It has been tricky to manage because we get residency documents through that church. There aren't many believers where I serve, either. It's not like the US where there are dozens of options. We've been focusing on a different church plant, but it's really small, mostly children from Muslim backgrounds, and we miss being with other Christians.
@@andyontheinternet5777uh, what about you??? Why were you not answering option? Was there absolutely no men in the church who knew the Bible and could teach?? I am very confused?? Who made the church pick a woman?? Are you all 6 years old??
Recently confronting this issue of women pastors. Looked into my denominations positions on female pastors. Shocked at the weakness of their argument.
1. Because we have a tradtion of fruitful pastoral women.
2. Because of a verse in Joel about the Holy Spirit working in both men and women's lives.
3. Because we have women being theologically trained and they need a place to pastor.
4. Because we have a bunch of scholarship we can cite to work around the Bible text.
The argument is so weak, its sad!
In my experience confronting any Pentecostal/Charismatic Pastor never ever goes well. "Dont touch the Lord's anointed." OR Church growth pragmatism "Look at how the church is growing! God supports my leadership!"
Even worse if its a "Family run business."
Its far easier to walk away than it is to fight out polity issues. Person becomes a trouble maker and "in rebellion".
Disobedience is not just in that church congregation but throughout the Denomination. John 14:15
Accurate summary, in my experience.
Thank you for unapologetically standing on what scripture actually says even though it is largely rejected and even demonized by the western world.
Scripture doesn’t actually say women can’t be a pastor
@@michaelbrickley2443 Did you even watch this? Good grief.
@@michaelbrickley2443 LOL
@ Who taught Apollos? A woman. Who was the first Evangelist? A woman. Were there more men disciples or women? Priscilla and her husband had a church. All the early churches were home churches. With men and women co pastors or simply women pastors.
@Yesica1993, I don’t have to. I have studied this question for years. All the evidence shows there were women evangelists, pastoras, disciples, deacons until the 3rd century AD. Priscilla taught Apollos. I can direct you to numerous lectures on Women In Ministry. One by Dr. Sandra Richter is wonderful.
As a Pentecostal Charismatic, we don't operate where elders have higher authority than the pastor. Unfortunately, though, the ordination of female pastors isn't all that uncommon within our denomination. I'm one of the minority who doesn't promote it.
@caleb11b, while you may not promote women pastors, if you continue in a church that does deny Gods Word by allowing women to pastor, you’re also guilty of denying God’s Word.
@DerekCulpepper-vu3cd My specific church doesn't have female pastors. However, I wouldn't be able to follow a denomination that teaches Calvinism or cessationism.
@@caleb11b Its very hard in these end times to find a church that teaches truth. I too wouldnt follow a denomination that teaches Calvinism or cessationism, however , I also could not be part of the mainstream Charismatic Pentecostal church either. I attended that type of church as a young person and became confused, even walking away from GOD for a long while because of the false healings and fake speaking in tongues so common within the Charismatic Pentecostal churches. My father is involved ( 45 years) with the money gospel Charismatic Pentecostals who deceptively teach that coverting is Godly and that if you desire something that doesn't belong to you ( coverting) and tell GOD to give it to you, then HE will bless you. This is the original sin, where Satan lost his position after desiring GODS position ( covet) He then offers the same lie to Eve, offering her GODS position if she eats the fruit of the " tree who knows good and who knows evil". ie Satan knew good because he lived in the presence of GOD but he became evil after he became proud and covetous desiring GODS position. When I listen to charismatic pentecostal speakers, say, like Olstean, Copeland, Hinn etc, all I hear is the fruit of the tree who knew good but now knows evil, that is pride and covetousness, the congregation taught to praise themselves and therefore make for themselves another god. BTW, my father never received any blessings, only curses, losing eight sons to early death, his property, and businesses and marriage.
@matthewbeaman8315 Definitely not in the main stream Pentecostal movement. I do believe in healings and speaking in tongues because I've seen it and experienced the reality of it myself. I do, though, believe in what Paul instructed when he talks about proper order of speaking in tongues in service. I think that an issue with the Pentecostal movement is that, in several ways, we can go off how we feel rather than what the Bible actually says regarding something which is troubling.
Thank you so much for the message. God's providence is interesting. I just had a friendly debate with a Christian friend about this last night, suddenly this morning when I opened youtube I saw this live stream, and felt ministered. Praise God and thank you Matthew.
first off , she isn't your 'pastor' since a woman can't preach and is , How can I classify it as anything other than a false teacher
Had same issue after converting 7 years ago. Use to be a methodist, but based on the scriptures, it never sit well the high level of matriarchy in the church, not only the women pastors but the most of the church leaders were women, 90% of the gatherings were women as well. I tried steering the church towards the biblical guidance, but eventually I gave up because I realized it was all systemic and part of the core of the church. After some years of jumping from church to church, I found a baptist church and been there ever since. I also never supported the idea of leaving a church, I also believe we should stay and do our best correct what was wrong, but if it fails, then I agree we should make a decision that best honor the scriptures, even if it includes leaving.
I agree. Also followed a husbands desire to stay at a church long after it was clear that they were going in the wrong direction. Submitted to him, submitted to God that this was going to be my ministry for the foreseeable future. It wasn't long before the church pushed there a biblical envelope out too far For my husband to ignore it anymore. We talked it over with the pastor who was committed to these things that were unbiblical. We left on good terms, and found a church with excellent Bible teaching, adhering to scriptural principles of leader ship and conflict resolution. 25 years later, I am realizing that every church has a Blindspot and that the modern church has largely disobeyed Jesus because of the man-made doctrine of cessation. (Excesses in Pentecostal churches does not mean that the gifts are being faked, and that they stopped… It just means that there are churches that are disobeying Paul about how to run the church decently and in order).
But I have no desire to cut and run for a "better" church. We have little pockets of "Woke Ness Monster," and fleeing is not the right answer to that either.
Overall, people love the word of God and are hungry for more of it all the time. We have a lot of solid believers here still, the others have gone into the mission field, passed away, moved away, gone to start new churches. The leadership has been pretty healthy and there is a desire to maintain unity while letting people make their points of view known. I'm paying a lot more attention to what's going on here. The world has definitely affected us especially as a lot of young people are coming in to the church. They are bringing ideas from culture, and those need to be gently contrasted with what scripture says. Speaking the truth with love, kindness and enthusiasm - not divisive disrespect.
Used to be in an UMC church, and we got a woman pastor right before their liberal policies. She did not acknowledge the Bible as the source of spiritual authority or guidance. Her leadership would have quickly destroyed that church if they had not gotten rid of her and then separated from the UMC. She was a nice person but her theology was deeply flawed.
Thank you, for Speaking the TRUTH of GOD'S WORD! I have Spoken these Scriptures to people who have a Woman Pastor! They said, times have Changed ! I said, GOD WORD never Changes! They didn't Listen to me! The Bishop who or dained her used Galatians 3:28. I. Read abd Study GOD'S WORD, and this Scripture is about Justification! People do Not listen , so I Moved on!
Nope. Just walk away.
"The silence is with respect to teaching."
Nope. Shes not even to ASK QUESTIONS.
Short answer- Who are you asking? God will tell you to stay or go according to his purpose. I went through this mess and God has me stick around long after I thought I should go, probably in hope that a certain man would step up.
I'm in the military deployed, and a new female Chaplain from a different country just arrived. 2 American male Chaplains are still here. They typically alternate services but announced today that she would be doing the next service. Do I ask her not to conduct service or just not attend the weeks that she speaks?
We had female preachers from time to time and just didn't attend those weeks. People notice and ask why. We used that as an opening to point to the Biblical position.
@christinebarnes899 thank you I will probably do this.
Ask her not to conduct services. This will get you in trouble with the world and the military. But you will be obeying God
@@tylerthegrimm ehhh....idk if that's the right hill to die on. If this same woman is preaching false gospel and leading people astray then yes. But let's consider Jesus in the book of revelation. Jesus was angry and rebuked a church because a woman was teaching false doctrine, not that she was teaching in general. I think that at times we can get too concerned and angry with things that aren't supposed to be so elevated. Again, not vying for women pastors, but just making a valid point here.
Nay
Settled at about 1100 B.C.
The Christians of the first century had only the scriptures of the Old Testament. Many (I hope) knew the story of Deborah and the authority of a Judge. It was good enough for them. It should be good enough for us.
...the judges of Israel, whom I commanded to shepherd My people...
In all places where I have walked with all Israel, have I spoken a word with any of the judges of Israel, whom I commanded to shepherd My people, saying, ‘Why have you not built Me a house of cedar?’
-excerpt 1 Chronicles 17 verse 6 NASB translation
Full read time: 10 minutes postable here
Change churches, if they will break one scripture they will probably break other scriptures.
@nancygermain6924, one shouldn’t change churches just because one verse is taught incorrectly. Nobody is perfect & all will make mistakes, in the pulpit & in the church as a whole. However, it’s when the pastor/church continually teaches incorrectly with no concern to teach God’s Word correctly, that it’s time to leave that church.
Excellent…but I don’t think modern Pentecostal churches have any kind of order or structure-- that’s why the woman ended up there. I grew up in one that was pretty Biblical, but 60 years later it’s very different.
Pentecostal churches have never had any proper order or biblical theology to begin with.
Pontus Pilote was a decent man and he knew Jesus was a good Man. But if he set Jesus free he would have become unpopular with the people so he passed Jesus on. We have too many decent preachers scared to stand up for God and want to please the people and remain good in their sight. They need to pick a side. God's word or the people being satisfied. Take care
Weak men have turned their backs on Gods Holy Word. 1Timothy 2:12
Rev. Everhard,
I am amazed at the depth of wisdom you have. Congratulations to your church.
My sister has come to Christ after being in new age belief for a long time. She’s going to church regularly now and has invited me to go to hers. Unfortunately they have a female pastor. I pointed my sister to scripture on this but she doesn’t seem to care. The church website has about a 32 page document trying to justify (with crazy mental gymnastics) how scripture actually means that it’s ok for a female to be a pastor, just not the HEAD pastor. Yikes.
We live in the Pittsburgh area. We really should just be going to your church.
The Christians of the first century had only the scriptures of the Old Testament. Many (I hope) knew the story of Deborah and the authority of a Judge. It was good enough for them. It should be good enough for us.
...the judges of Israel, whom I commanded to shepherd My people...
In all places where I have walked with all Israel, have I spoken a word with any of the judges of Israel, whom I commanded to shepherd My people, saying, ‘Why have you not built Me a house of cedar?’
-excerpt 1 Chronicles 17 verse 6 NASB translation
@ Not even remotely the case that the early Christians only had that. They didn’t have female pastors. Paul’s letters were sent in that era. The early church fathers were absolutely 100% not condoning female pastors, if that’s what you’re trying to say.
@@Cortezuma
I suggest my free informal postable essay on Deborah.
This entire matter was settled at about 1100 B.C.
Read time: 10 minutes
Paul taught that he was a spiritual 'father'. Totally against
what Jesus taught. Be careful of Paul's teachings.
@ So that’s what it boils down to. You’re someone who doesn’t believe the Bible and you’re here advocating female pastors based on something “settled” 1000 years after Paul. This is kind of exactly the argument this video addresses. Those who advocate female pastors tend to be anti-Bible. I trust the Bible, including the massive amount of it written by Paul.
@@Cortezuma
1100 years before Paul, the wife of Lappidoth, was judging Israel at that time.
A woman could only be given the authority by God to execute a man for his sin, if women are spiritually equal to men. A Judge could judge homicide cases according to Deuteronomy. Therefore Deborah, as a Judge, could execute a man for his sin. A Judge's verdict could not be altered or appealed.
I have never found to be a problem to understand that Woman’s are not to preach in any church , they could teach some minor classes and to be the encouragement to young woman to help them to pure and if marriage to be submissive to the husband just like CHRIST IS TO THE FATHER.
God made His position clear through the Paul that women are not to possess ecclesiastical authority...period. Not over men, and not even over other ppl's children. God's government specifically forbids it. Men were created to be the leaders in society, not women. Women ruling is a sign that a nation is under a curse, and it's especially true with churches. It doesn't even matter if the woman is theologically correct. She is still rebelling against God's order!
If these steps work for a local congregation I wonder if they would also for an entire denomination.
Brilliant and very biblical video. Thanks Matthew.
We are all called to submit to God, whether men or women. The Bible describes several woman leaders, as they have been called. One of my pastors is a woman, and both she and I (and others) have struggled with it. It's clear that she was called to this service, and it shows in her fruits. Under the circumstances, there seems to be no reason to cause dissension. She is not woke or sliding by any means, after nearly 2 decades in her position. The Bible interprets the Bible - it is true in all. The discrepancies are a matter of context, intended audience, etc. You are correct - it is not up for debate. We are all growing in our walk, including my pastor. In the end, this is not a Salvation issue.
The Christians of the first century had only the scriptures of the Old Testament. Many (I hope) knew the story of Deborah and the authority of a Judge. It was good enough for them. It should be good enough for us.
...the judges of Israel, whom I commanded to shepherd My people...
In all places where I have walked with all Israel, have I spoken a word with any of the judges of Israel, whom I commanded to shepherd My people, saying, ‘Why have you not built Me a house of cedar?’
-excerpt 1 Chronicles 17 verse 6 NASB translation
Even if the person going to this Pentecostal church was able to get the female pastor to step down it's still very bad for them to be in a church that upholds unbiblical soteriology.
They should leave and find a strict confessional Reformed church.
I don't think confessional Reformed is the way to go.
@jimmu2008 Confessional reformed/original Westminster standards is the biblical position.
@@innovationhq8230 I disagree. Why did it show up so late in history, then?
@@jimmu2008 It's the teaching of the bible so it's the earliest thing in history.
@@innovationhq8230 I disagree. It's not the same as taught by the Bible.
I'm very supportive of girl bosses, but the church is where I too have to draw the line. As far as I'm concerned, God doesn't see the pastor as any more important than the women who cook the food for special meals.
Lol most women don't even want to follow women. My wife didn't want to go to church anymore when they started having female pastors
Matthew what is your position on a divorced and remarried man being a deacon, elder or pastor? I know it says the husband of one wife. Or maybe you could do a video on that. Are there any instances where a divorced man can be in church leadership or ministry? My personal situation was an unbelieving wife initiated the divorce also with my wife now her ex husband did the same. So I would greatly appreciate your thoughts on this as we desire to serve in our church but do not want to step out of biblical authority. Thanks.
What does Scripture say? There's your answer.
This topic can be so divisive, but also important. There are many scholars who interpret "husband of one wife" to be speaking of polygamy, not divorce and remarriage.
Frankly, in my own study, I find that to make much more sense given the pagan normalcy of polygamy when these books were written by Paul. We know divorce is a sin, but is it so different that it is disqualifying when other sins are not? Tough question. When taken to its worst possible conclusions, you could legitimately have a situation where a man who lived as an unmarried homosexual prior to salvation qualifies for ministry when a man who got divorced before salvation cannot. Something not right about that. My church (of which I am an elder, not divorced) holds to the polygamy interpretation primarily, but out of respectful caution will not consider divorced elder/pastor candidates if said divorce happened while that couple were Christians.
He is an Unrepentant sinner living in Defiance of God and is to be Excommunicated, Ejected from the Church and Shunned until he Repents, cuts off the women whom he is in Adultery with, and returns to his First Wife!
@gregmcray yeah I would say that divorce and remarriage prior to salvation is *probably* different than post salvation. If an unbelieving spouse leaves you or you left an unbelieving spouse while you were also unbelieving and then get married and then convert you should probably remain as you are and if that's the case can probably be in the ministry. Not married to it but that's my take.
@@teresafarrell6457are you Matthew or Teresa the troll? Probably best you stay silent
I had something happen like this in a different way. The main pastor was a man, but they started allowing a woman to baptize at our church. This is a non denominational church. I left immediately, especially since our children were at the time when they wanted to be baptized. We are now a completely different denomination.
In fairness, women are not biblically excluded from evangelism or baptism. Scripture actually commands ALL believers to evangelize and to baptize.
@@ScribeAlicious In fairness and wisdom, consider this:
1Pe 3:1 Likewise, wives, be in subjection to your own husbands, so that if any do not obey the Word, they may also be won without the Word by the conduct of the wives,
1Pe 3:2 having witnessed your chaste behavior in the fear of God.
1Pe 3:3 Of whom let not be the adorning of garments, or outward braiding of hair and wearing of gold, or of putting on clothing,
1Pe 3:4 but let it be the hidden man of the heart, in that which is not corruptible, the meek and quiet spirit, which is of great price in the sight of God.
1Pe 3:5 For so once indeed the holy women hoping in God adorned themselves, being in subjection to their own husbands;
1Pe 3:6 as Sarah obeyed Abraham, calling him lord; whose children you became, doing good and fearing no terror.
1Pe 3:7 Likewise, husbands, live together according to knowledge, giving honor to the wife as to the weaker vessel, the female, as truly being co-heirs together of the grace of life, not cutting off your prayers.
I attended a Baptist church that called a non pastor woman a pastor, and they let her baptize, lead prayers, and more. I was extremely unhappy to learn she never attended seminary or Bible college, was a gossip, and believes false teachings. 😡👎
The male pastors seemed fine with it all.
I walked away.
You’re wrong
@ScribeAlicious, give the passage of scripture that says all believers are to evangelize & baptize
It’s a dangerous, slippery slope. The church I play the drums for has recently ordained female pastors. I’m passionate about using my gifts for His glory. Fortunately where my bride and I are actually members they’re biblical. I might be leaving the unbiblical congregation in 2025. 😢
I still have some questions regarding this issue:
1) Is 'leaving' the Church due to it going astray in this way Biblical? Do we find examples of this in Scripture, particularly in the New Testament?
2) When the Church was being taken over by false teachings in the Apostolic era, was this what the Apostles did or recommended?
3) If conservatives abandon the church, won't that lead to the church becoming even more liberal without any resistance?
4) Isn't this the strategy that has been adopted for decades and that has only led to the strengthening of liberalism within the churches and the weakening of historic Protestantism?
I'm not talking about excommunication, I'm talking about voluntary departure.
I agree with Redeemed Zoomed on this subject. Though, I feel a bit of a hypocrite because I fled my United Methodist Church because the pastor was certified crazy. Then post covid the UMC a went off the rails. Meanwhile I found a Non Denomination church that I really like and feel at home in
The Christians being called to leave the synagogues that had once been their churches. Also, he’s not describing just walking out and leaving. He’s describing resistance until the only option to resist left is to leave.
@@daeuslamb8191 It is not the same. Early Christian separation in this case was due to a fundamental rejection of the core Christian faith, especially concerning the person and work of Jesus Christ. When churches or synagogues denied the divinity of Christ or His resurrection, for example, the early Christians had no choice but to separate, as such denials struck at the heart of the Gospel itself.
In contrast, issues like women’s ordination or liberal theological tendencies within a church, while serious, often don't directly involve a rejection of the central tenets of the Christian faith. Many churches that adopt liberal practices, such as women in leadership or differing views on certain social issues, may still officially uphold orthodox doctrines like the Trinity, the deity of Christ, salvation by grace, and the authority of Scripture
Even Matthew Everhard in one of his videos classified female ordination in the “false teaching” category and not in the “heresy” category.
@@daeuslamb8191 It is not the same. Early Christian separation in this case was due to a fundamental rejection of the core Christian faith, especially concerning the person and work of Jesus Christ. When churches or synagogues denied the divinity of Christ or His resurrection, for example, the early Christians had no choice but to separate, as such denials struck at the heart of the Gospel itself.
In contrast, issues like women’s ordination or liberal theological tendencies within a church, while serious, often don't directly involve a rejection of the central tenets of the Christian faith. Many churches that adopt liberal practices, such as women in leadership or differing views on certain social issues, may still officially uphold orthodox doctrines like the Trinity, the deity of Christ, salvation by grace, and the authority of Scripture
Even Matthew Everhard in one of his videos classified female ordination in the “false teaching” category and not in the “heresy” category.
@@daeuslamb8191 It’s important to note that early Christian separation often occurred due to the rejection of core Christian doctrines, especially regarding the person and work of Jesus Christ. When churches or synagogues denied His divinity or resurrection, the early Christians had no choice but to separate, as these were central to the Gospel.
In contrast, issues like women’s ordination or certain liberal theological perspectives, while significant, don’t necessarily involve rejecting core Christian doctrines. Many churches that have these practices still uphold orthodox beliefs like the Trinity and the deity of Christ,
As Matthew Everhard discusses in one of his videos, while female ordination may be a serious theological concern, it is not necessarily classified as a 'heresy' but rather a deviation from traditional teaching.
This is not difficult. I will not sit under a woman pastor. Nor will my wife. I’m not saying a woman cannot speak into my life but they will not be given the role of teacher of Gods word.
Thank you very much for that. I have two questions that came to my mind as I was listening to your advice.
1) With church membership, isn't a woman given authority in the local church with voting rights? Especially, where there is a majority of women.
2) When advising the woman to pursue the chain of actions you've recommended, when is the woman crossing the line concerning silence in the church. She is requesting the elders study something which is fair enough. Then she is attempting to get the congregation onside to overthrow the elders position (granted, that it is unbiblical) and also influence the members and their conscience (again, granted that her position is valid).
Many thanks,
Stephen
Didn't John Knox write about this sort of thing? I have shared a link to this video with some friends of mine, as the first steps toward this practice is starting to appear in my former denomination (I moved suburbs and could not bring myself to apply for membership in another congregation from that denomination.)
Excellent, Excellent response!!!!!..
Exactly no debate!! Simple. ✝️
By far the most life changing deliverances on me were in a non denominational church healing centre set up and run by a woman.
Great video Dr. Everhard! Just a bit of pushback as a complementarian who agrees with this video. How do you reconcile these verses with other passages about women prophesying (Joel 2:28; Acts 2:17, 21:9). I feel like more thoughtful egalitarian critics would not use Gal. 3:28, but would rather make a more nuanced case from these passages. Again, I completely agree with this video, I was just curious how you would respond to a more nuanced critique. I appreciate your insight on this subject!
Hello, I'm not Pastor Matt. :)
I would think the Holy Spirit verses do explain God's grace/activity/power in both men and women's lives.
As in: Prophesying/gift enabledment equals leadership.
It could be however not necessarily about elders/teacher/leader roles. A person can function in a gift, but that doesn't provide them a leadership role in a church.
Using a gift does not equal Leadership.
I belong to a Denomination that justifies egalitarianism using many of those Holy Spirit verses. For whatever that is worth.
Gifting and Office are not necessarily tied together. Was not Deborah a prophetess, but Barak still commanded the army? And he was criticized for not being willing to go without Deborah. Phillip (I think, going off memory) had a bunch of daughters who prophesied, yet they did not run the church. Prophets never led the country of Israel, with the sole exception being Moses, and none would be raised up like him until Jesus. I am not a pastor, but those are the lines of argumentatioin I would develop against that suggestion.
@@thinktank8286 The Pulpit Commentary:
1Co_14:34
Let your women keep silence in the Churches. St. Paul evidently meant this to be a general rule, and one which ought to be normally observed; for he repeats it in 1Ti_2:11, 1Ti_2:12. At the same time, it is fair to interpret it as a rule made with special reference to time and circumstances, and obviously admitting of exceptions in both dispensations (Jdg_4:4; 2Ki_22:14; Neh_6:14; Luk_2:36; Act_2:17; Act_21:9), as is perhaps tacitly implied in 1Co_11:5. But… to be under obedience (Eph_5:22; Col_2:18; Tit_2:5; 1Pe_3:1). Christianity emancipated women, but did not place them on an equality with men. As also saith the Law (Gen_3:16; Num_30:3-12).
It says in 1 Corinthians 14 that all are eligible to prophesy but in James 3 let not many of you be teachers. That pretty effectively rebuts the canard that prophesying verses justify preaching and teaching.
The one push back i have here is the idea that egalitarianism is the slippery slope to much worse things. Mainly, because in the pentecostal world a great many church ordain women that have remained conservative .. AOG for instance has ordained women. I note too that your former church, the EPC, ordains women!
What does God say?
@@tanner5658 What does God say about what ?
@@Presbyterians What does God say about ordaining women, and why does He say it? What is Paul’s reasoning for non-authoritative women?
My former Church, I attended for 4 years before my family and I moved to another town. I came to Christ in that church and although I attend a different church, I consider it one of my spiritual homes.The situation there was unique, there was a lead male pastor and female assistant pastor. Before the male pastor retired, he caused alot of strife and division in the church by introducing progressive teaching and it was the female Pastor whose teaching remained Biblically sound.The male pastor retired and the female leads the church now and there had been a restoration. So I do not care who leads the church as long as the teaching is focused on Christ.
With all due respect we should all still pay attention to what the Bible tells us is correct. No matter how we feel
It’s so sad to see Christians try to interpret this verse in the way they want it to say for the sake of feminism.
I live with my parents and I’m a young adult. I left the charismatic church my parents started going to because growing up (not southern) baptist it didn’t seem right, and I hadn’t even heard this before until I asked a fellow Christian about it and they lead me to the verse in 1 Timothy. I was shocked a “Bible believing” church blatantly disobeyed Scripture. I struggled a lot at the same time learning the doctrines of grace after being raised in Arminianism.
I’m now going to a very excellent church which preaches the doctrines of grace with a close friend (baptist because that’s what I grew up with and I do confess I have strong convictions on immersion and baptism like Jesus had but otherwise I greatly benefit from “true” reformed teachings).
Unfortunately my mother doesn’t like to have controversial biblical discussions and my father (who led us to the charismatic church) is greatly deceived. He thinks these passages mean back then women weren’t “intelligent enough” to preach. The main pastor isn’t a woman at their church but they do have a woman preach on Mother’s Day and have a woman “children’s pastor”. I’ve tried to show my father the truth of Scripture and send him resources from Ligonier and other sermons, but I believe his heart is hardened.
Please pray for my parents who are under this deception, especially my father who is my spiritual leader. The fruit of his life has become sparse since we left my childhood church and I now question his salvation at times, wondering if it was all a show when I was a child. I’m so genuinely worried most of all for his salvation. His view of Scripture and even Christ is lower than “dreams and visions and prophetic words” falsely claimed to be from the Lord. I fear he offers strange fire and even if he has genuine saving faith, he is weak spiritually and deeply in need of sound doctrine.
Please Pastor Everhard and fellow brothers and sisters in Christ, pray for my father. Pray his eyes are opened to the truth of Scripture, not only on this issue but also on the false teachings of the charismatic church and speaking new “words from the Lord.” Pray if he does not truly trust Christ for his salvation God will bring him to repentance and faith with a new, regenerated heart. I love my father deeply. Also please pray my parents come to see the truth of the doctrines of grace. My mom is very against election and predestination, and it is only my boyfriend and his God-fearing family who taught me these great truths.
Thank you 😊
In Christ,
Sylvia
I think Matthew's advice is solid, esp. the part about verifying your Church's bylaws, rules, etc., regarding this issue. You have Holy Scripture on your side. What do they have on theirs?
Thank you for the Biblical views. I am what is called a baby Christian and looking for a church. A couple of the churches in my area have female pastors. Now I have the scriptural basis for ruling out these churches.
you wrote:
Now I have the scriptural basis for ruling out these churches.
No you don't.
The Christians of the first century had only the scriptures of the Old Testament. Many (I hope) knew the story of Deborah and the authority of a Judge. It was good enough for them. It should be good enough for us.
...the judges of Israel, whom I commanded to shepherd My people...
In all places where I have walked with all Israel, have I spoken a word with any of the judges of Israel, whom I commanded to shepherd My people, saying, ‘Why have you not built Me a house of cedar?’
-excerpt 1 Chronicles 17 verse 6 NASB translation
Full read time: 10 minutes postable here
I personally don't believe that God can't give the gift of teaching and leadership to women. I have had to leave a church once due to a pastor who was a man. I have also experienced a wonderful pastor who was a woman. If you have the gift, you have the gift. ❤ There were many women who were leaders in the Bible.
@amcall, God can & does give the gift of teaching & leadership to women, however, he/God forbids women to pastor/preach or have any other leadership position over men in the church.
@@DerekCulpepper-vu3cdbut isn’t that concept outdated? C’mon we’re going into 2025, catch up with the times dude!
@@Allen-a-tor no
@@tanner5658 actually I was just joking. I’d NEVER go to a church that had a female pastor or any type of Bible class that has a female teacher. If they want to teach women or kids, great.
Can I just ask a side question? In 1 Timothy 3:2 where it says "the husband of one wife", can I take that to mean "a man who has only ever had one wife"? As in never been divorced and remarried?
Be careful of Christian legalism.
13:12 amen! May God bless you brother! You're very correct.
God not congregation calls people to ministry and can and do call who ever God dam well wants to call. We have no right to tell God who can call. Men,women, rich,poor, young, old, homosexual,heterosexual, all people can be called to ministry
A man is not going to open up to a female pastor for spiritual advice as he would a man. Especially if he is dealing with certain temptations.
Well, a male pastor cannot give women advice when it come to certain female things.
(2:25) “Normally I really hesitate to tell somebody to leave their church; in fact, that’s not my gut instinct. . . I typically don’t recommend that because I have a very covenantal view of what it means to be a believe as well as a covenantal view of what it means to be a church member in general.” Okay, forgive my ignorance, but what does that mean, exactly? What’s the relationship between being “covenantal,” and being less likely to encourage people to leave their church?
Although I respect Pastor Everhard's advice on this issue, my gut sense is that it's not going to work out. My gut sense is that you should find a more Biblical church. However, here is a compromise: I would test the waters by trying out step #1 of what Pastor Everhard recommends. The response to that step will show how the rest of the process would go. If I got a negative response to the first step, I would start looking for a new church.
I think his point is that it's honorable to do everything within your power as a church member to help the church that you covenanted to be a part of. Even if it's unlikely to work out
Compromising with God's government has NEVER yielded positive results. Go ahead and look in the Bible, see if you can point out a single instance where the Israelites or members of God's Church abandoned His government and got positive results. I would not wait, especially with the stakes being as serious as they are.
@@tbrickman No, the honorable thing to do would be to leave. A professing Christian's loyalty is supposed to be to God, not a church. A person who gives their loyalty to a church is not following God. What good is it to be that loyal to a church that isn't being led by God or is even getting any revelation from God? So many "Christians" like Matthew give their loyalty to ppl instead of the truth, and it's exactly why they're deceived.
Matthew 28:19
Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit
The great commission here applies to both men and women. It involves women preaching and baptizing.
This conflict with Paul on 1 Timothy 2
and Jesus is greater than Paul. Hence we choose Jesus over Paul in this case.
Our problem in our church is it has lost a lot of members to churches that tech non Biblically in our area. And right now give men to twenty women. They are being allowed to run the show because of their majority. I can't just leave the church as I'm still in a place of authority and am trying to work through to get more congregants in our church. But they are stuck in the ways that are the reason many left and a lot of our was COVID as well. 😮
This is a very similar thing that happened to me before I became reformed
Do you allow non reformed people to attend your Church services? I'm not reformed or Armenian as I struggle to come to a conclusion on the topic.
If it's a woman pastor then you nether have a pastor or a church
I totally agree with you that advocating female pastors is the first step toward theological progressivism. My approach toward the situation you described, however, would be different. After advising the person to discuss the matter with the leaders, if there was little hope of a change, then the person should quietly leave the church. My thought is that it would be better to quietly leave than to openly fight. Thank you for addressing this issue. This Baptist pastor appreciates your Presbyterian ministry!
I respectfully submit that the first step is a female worship leader, missions leader, or a Christian women’s author who believes it’s ok to speak to an audience that includes men. Didn’t this begin by making excuses for those things? By the time a woman is in the role of pastor, it’s obvious that the good men around her dropped the ball long before.
I've spoken to ethical ladies in various bible studies groups and they all disagree with women having to be silent in a church etc. I always asked if this is their sin nature and they didn't think it was at all. So I just don't know about it.
Does it state in Genesis that women were made in God's image?
When you know the answer to that, all such related questions will disappear.
It's a Pentecostal church. If they expel a pastor for being a woman the church will be disaffilated from the denomination.
It depends on the Pentecostal church's affiliation, for example, Foursquare Pentecostals have always allowed a woman Senior Pastors. Assembly of God and COGIC used to not allow it, yet they are now. Holiness Pentecostals would not allow a woman to be in this position.
It also depends on the Presbyterian church's affiliation, Pastor Everhard is Presbyterian PCA, Presbyterian USA has women Pastors, and Senior woman Pastors, with their Liberal Full Communion with other Liberal denominations, (ECLA etc.). Pastor Everhard hit this on the head near the end!!
Also, Pastor Everhard did not mention whether the woman is married or not!!! That changes the whole idea.
@@TruthLivesNow he clearly said she became pastor on the death of her husband.
@@TruthLivesNowwhen did COGIC begin to allow women pastors?
Leave, immediately. This should be obvious.
There is a lot of pastor worship going on in churches, they don't read the bible or care to follow what it says. Jesus said in John 14, If you love me keep my commandments. Then in John 15, you are my friends if you do whatsoever I command you.
Our church doesn't have elders or deacon and we don't exercise church discipline
Sadly financial realities are a huge contributing factor. My small village has 3 major denomination churches(Lutheran, Methodist, UCC) made of up elderly congregants. They can pay a single female a much smaller salary than a man with a wife and children. Doesn't make it Biblically correct, but this is mostly why it is tolerated.
There is no excuse for disobedience. John 14:15
Great video. Any thoughts on Jentezen Franklin out of Gainesville, GA? Seems like a good candidate for your next compilation of worshiptainment churches.
So the wife of the founding pastor became the de facto pastor without a due call process, and then she tried to install her son as the next pastor?
This church has bigger issues than the gender of the one in the pulpit.
Does the woman who wrote the letter to you have a believing husband? If so, should she speak with him first and ask him to take the lead to handle this difficult situation? Like you read, let her ask her husband at home.
Hi Matthew, I have a question. I think the steps you described for this situation are really good. Whilst the process is happening, assuming it will take some weeks, would you say that the person involved here should continue to attend Sunday service when the female is preaching?
I would love to hear more teaching from you in what exactly women can do in a church service and how you back it up biblically. This is something I have really struggled to understand. I have a very clear understanding that women cannot be a pastor or preach. However in our church (Presbyterian in Australia) the women will pray, read the Bible and sing all from the ‘stage’. How do I really know for sure if these are ok for women to do?
(not this channel)
Settled at about 1100 B.C.
The Christians of the first century had only the scriptures of the Old Testament. Many (I hope) knew the story of Deborah and the authority of a Judge. It was good enough for them. It should be good enough for us.
...the judges of Israel, whom I commanded to shepherd My people...
In all places where I have walked with all Israel, have I spoken a word with any of the judges of Israel, whom I commanded to shepherd My people, saying, ‘Why have you not built Me a house of cedar?’
-excerpt 1 Chronicles 17 verse 6 NASB translation
Full essay read time: 10 minutes postable here
AMEN ON ALL THAT!! But 13:00 minutes in has been proven true time and time again.
Thank you for this Biblically correct video!
Thank you also for your comment starting at 15:48. Understood.
🙌🏼 TO GOD BE THE GLORY 🙌🏼
I would trust my child with a female pastor before I would trust my child with a male pastor or youth minister.
Do you pay attention to the news? Women do these horrible things, too.
I agree with the stance of Pastor Matt, and everything he recommends is based on solid Biblical principles. But it strikes me as a little naive. Churches like this typically do not have any elders; if they even have deacons or board members, these people have almost zero authority, and the only reason they are there is that they have already bought into this kind of thing. Any appeal to these, or any authorities in the denomination, will face a well-established rationale for this practice (however unbiblical it may be).
Your chances of success (getting the pastor to resign) are practically nil. Your chances for introducing strife into this body are pretty strong.
Is it worth it? Maybe it is. I don't know.
Um, most Pentecostal churches I've been to have elders and the boards have more authority than you think.
@@CenterPorchNP Thanks for the feedback. My comments were based on the ones I've seen.
Kenneth E Hagin has a book on this subject. The Woman Question. if you would like to read it.
Really appreciated your advice for how to handle corruption in the church.
I was recently talking with my wife about women teaching bible-related classes. For example, Bible studies, Christian book studies, parenting classes, etc.
Wondering what you would think of that? While it could lead to acting or posturing as an unofficial pastor, it wouldn’t need to (and you could have that problem with a man too.)
I think there’s some legitimate biblical precedent for that, but possibly biblical precedent to be cautious too??? I’d like to think biblically about this, but aware that my instincts are heavily trained by the various and often contradictory subcultures I’m a part of.
I suggest my free scripturally-based essay on Deborah.
Men and women are perfectly equal spiritually. She was a pastor, according to the scriptures. This is how the Judges are described in Chronicles, by God.
...the judges of Israel, whom I commanded to shepherd My people...
In all places where I have walked with all Israel, have I spoken a word with any of the judges of Israel, whom I commanded to shepherd My people, saying, ‘Why have you not built Me a house of cedar?’
-excerpt 1 Chronicles 17 verse 6 NASB translation
Help, my dog is a cat…
I see you have thought this through very well and I agree with you. However, I have a question you didn’t address.
Apparently, there are no men in the church who will step up to fill the pulpit, what do you do in the interim of the woman stepping down and the church calling a new pastor? Apparently, the church does not want to ask other churches for help, or they would have done so already.
Does the church discontinue meeting until a new pastor is called?
No. They could follow the early church example of simply having shorter services where men read a passage of scripture to the church. There is no reason to A: appoint a female pastor or B: Stop church for the lack of a man to preach. Trust God and that church will stand or fall according to His will.
We don’t make excuses or seek means to justify disobeying a command of God
Interesting! I once attended a church on one of the smaller Hawaiian islands; it was run by women as there were no males in the congregation. They did the evangelizing, administration, teaching, preaching and Bible study. If ANY male showed up for worship he was immediately propelled to the pulpit!!
The Bible says that _God_ is supposed to appoint the ministers. If an organization appoints its own ministers, that is a dead giveaway that said organization is not being led by God. That's why the "men won't step up" arguments are highly illogical. God _always_ ordains men, and He _always_ prepare them for the task first. We see this throughout scripture with Moses, Aaron, Samuel, Elisha, the original apostles, and Jesus Himself.
Do you believe it is biblical for a woman serve in other leadership roles like Women'S ministries, children ministries, music leader etc
well done! Love you lots!
Ordained office/leadership? I don't see that in my bible... 😮
Matthew, what are your thoughts on the "of the Nazarene" church? We found one we may want to go to, but before I bring my family there, I'd appreciate your insight. Is their theology solid?
I went to a Nazarene Church many years. I like fact that they believe you can lose your salvation. But them allowing a women to preach I am against. I finally left the church because they were doing nothing about transgenders. i got tired of seeing women in the men's bathroom. They also allow divorce and remarriage which is adultery in the church. It was so bad I could not invite people to the church. The messages were becoming more and more watered down. It is extremely difficult to find a good church. I can not find any. They will not change. Remember a bad can affect your children. Our time here is very short. Many Christians will fall away. I feel I have lost 6 out 7 of my kids. 3 are atheist. Why? Because a lot of church doesn't believe the word of God.
Nazarene churches are Arminian in their theology which would differ greatly with Matthew's Reformed or Calvinist theology!
@normgardner4560 makes sense. Thank you for the response
Hold on, you are telling a woman to go to the elders and give them instruction? How is that different than a female pastor? Would she not be usurping the authority of the elders by instructing them?
If your elders were affirming sin, will it not be biblical to bring the offense according to Matthew 18? It is a fault which should be brought to the brother, the bible does not forbid women from doing this.
@@emmanuellaford5868 if the elders & pastor are affirming sin.... time to leave
@casey1167 I agree but I think it is fair to bring the issue to them first in case they change, you would have gained a brother.
@@emmanuellaford5868 If you gave this advise to me, maybe... but would you give this advise to a Christian who was not firmly rooted in the Bible? Could be dangerous.
I think my first question would be why when the SR Pastor died the successor had to be within the family? I do not know if the SR Pastor had more than one son but perhaps the son did not want it or was not qualified therefore it fell back on the wife. BUT if that is the case that church leadership can not consider anyone else because of being confined to only the founding Pastors immediate family as successors which is a problem in itself but if that is the case then you have your answer. Its more less keeping it within the family, boxed into that family dynamic that they can not consider anyone else to take on that Pastoral role in which I would gracefully leave.
I agree that women should not be called to be pastors or priests.
However, any applied theology of women in ministry, even teaching roles, must take all of the New Testament into account.
Consider this verse from Acts 18:26 - "He [Apollos] began to speak boldly in the synagogue, but when *_Priscilla_* and Aquila heard him, *_they_* took him aside and explained to him the way of God more accurately."
So here you have Priscilla, a woman, listed before her husband and instructing a man.
As for the advice, I find it is idealistic. Not many people could follow all those steps. The best advice may be to pray about what she should do, and then follow her conscience and God's leading.
Priscilla was not a pastor
@CaroleRubano I did not claim that Priscilla was a pastor. Did you read my whole comment? I started by saying that I am opposed to women as pastors. If I thought that Priscilla was a pastor, why would I still be opposed to female pastors?
None of what you showed authorizes women to be teachers. Priscilla was NOT instructing Apollos. The account clearly says that _she assisted her husband_ in explaining doctrines to Apollos. Your advice is woefully dangerous because the Bible consistently warn against relying on human reasoning. Praying before making a conscience based decision won't make it a bible based decision!
@theeternalsbeliever1779 no, it doesn't clearly say that Priscilla _assisted_ her husband!
And the only "advice" I gave was to consider the whole New Testament and to pray about what the person should do. As I began in my original comment with saying that I am opposed to female pastors, I would assume that people would understand that the remaining options would be to take steps like Pastor Matthew is recommending or leave a situation that is unlikely to change. Nor did I suggest that she base her decision on human reasoning.
People are going to get upset because it smacks of the whole approach of using questionable microdata to overturn clear macrodata. You cannot base doctrine on something as wispy as Priscilla's name being mentioned before her husband's name. Having said that, what this verse really demonstrates is that the Biblical sex role principles involved do not restrict private communications.
Can you address the question about female deacons? I have a translation (Nasb I think) that uses the term deaconess. The context was a deacon and his wife. Like when a deacon is ordained that the wife is included. Your thoughts?
Their is no greek word that translates as “deaconess” that is completely made up by some goofy translator who was interpreting the text rather than translating.
But to keep it clear we have no example of a female deacon in all of scripture. Some say Pheobe was in Romans 16:1 but the fact is “diakonos” (which is the greek word we translate as “deacon” and means “servant”) is used elsewhere to identify the Apostles and Jesus Himself.
Other than that, in 1 Timothy 3 the standards of deaconship are given and it is almost entirely referring to men. I say almost because there is a single verse that says “women should likewise be….” In fairness the greek does not say “wives” it just says “women.” If Paul wanted to say “wives” or “deacon’s wives” then the greek would be literally “their women” showing ownership but he doesn’t… he just says “women” but simultaneously it seems a bit out of place in the fuller context if he isn’t talking about the deacon’s wives.
I would conclude that it is a conscience issue but I personally believe the argument is stronger on the side of no female deacons.
Deacon’s wives do serve with their husbands, but they themselves are not deacons, they are simply their husband’s helper
The same Greek word is used to describe ordained deacons and servants in general.
I then thought it the more needful to get at the
facts behind their statements. Therefore I placed two
women, called “deaconesses,” under torture, but I
found only a debased superstition carried to great
lengths, so I postponed my examination, and
immediately consulted you.
-excerpt Pliny the Younger’s Letter to Emperor Trajan Regarding the Christians
about 111 A.D.
I occasionally go to a Wesleyan church which has women pastors. They are really nice people, but I disagree on the scriptural basis for women pastors.
Still, the church and their music are beautiful. They don't seem to give expository sermons at all.
I tend to lean toward trying to work on these people from the inside. I'm certainly not going to just never see them again because we disagree on this.
The modern idea of pastors is so far removed from the New Testament anyway. Pastors (shepherds) are listed as a separate spiritual gift to teaching - yet the vast majority of pastors are primarily teachers in the modern church. They're also often leaders, and in many churches, unfortunately they're the highest authority (which according to the New Testament, lies with the elder/presbytos or overseer/episkopos).
I have argued fairly successfully in my local congregation that the role of a Pastor is more like a Christian counsellor - one to one conversations with members of the flock who need gentle guidance and to help those who are grieving, dealing with marital or familial/friendship relationship issues, etc. etc... but not making decisions with regard to church discipline. I don't see any reason why this person could not be female (though our guy is male).
The elders are the true church leadership, should always exist in plurality (best to have at least three, though one may become considered a "first among equals" - my grandfather became like this in his church, because of his experience and the way he operated - always Scripture first, always gentle yet firm in his decisions). They must always be male.
Teachers - I am from the Open Brethren tradition, so we don't have a Teaching Pastor (we don't have the same guy preaching every week or even every second week). We have a small team, guided by the elders, who arrange the topics/passages into series and approach appropriate people to deliver sermons. My particular congregation allows women to preach - because it is considered to be under the authority of the male eldership, who bear full responsibility for everything that is preached in our building, whether that is delivered by a male or female. We also don't consider the person in the pulpit on a Sunday morning to have any authority over the congregation - when was the last time someone told you, from the pulpit, to directly do something? There are plenty of Open Brethren congregations who don't allow women to preach - and we don't consider ourselves in any way to be in schism with them. One of the core aspects of the Open Brethren tradition is that our congregations are entirely separate in their governance - the highest authority is the elders, and they only "have jurisdiction" over their local assembly/congregation. We do have an overarching administration organization, but this has no say on our local practices, rather, it's so we can fund students (like me) to do higher level biblical studies to enrich our preaching, and it's also the entity that operates several camps for both church community use and as an evangelical tool (a cheap place for anyone to send their child for a week in school holidays for fun and gospel).
Personally, I'd be just as comfortable in an Open Brethren assembly that doesn't allow female preaching as I would in the one I am in that does - though I am a man, so it's pretty easy for me to say that. To me, it's a case of submitting to the decision of the leaders God placed over the assembly in Christ, and it's a very non-core issue. If they brought in female eldership, I'd be much less comfortable though (as every Open Brethren assembly where that's happened in NZ has gone strange really quick).
Brother, I agree with your sound council to this woman. Reasoned, biblical, orthodox, kind, and loving.
I do have a rub…Why did you switch between the NKJV to the ESV to make two points without disclosing that you had to switch versions to support those points?
My concern is if she tries to lift these exact verses and bring them to her “pastor” she can be set up for having to cherry pick versions to make the point. That’s okay as long as she is equipped to say the NKJV renders this verse better and the ESV this one.
Why didn’t you disclose the version switch-a-roo?
She's just going to need to leave the church. The female "pastor" isn't even the biggest issue; the other false teachings of Charismatic churches are a bigger problem.
But if she does confront the "pastor", she needs to take 1 or 2 witnesses with her.
The woman pastor thing is indeed the worst sin in the charismatic churches at large, if perhaps not in every specific instance.
@@conceptualclarityas bad as that is, I'm personally troubled with their obsession with "sign" gifts, to the point that many claim you can't really be saved unless you speak in tongues.
I'm not a cessationist as such, but I don't believe I've ever witnessed real supernatural gifts in a charismatic church.
I've seen chaotic services with many of the congregation speaking gibberish at once (with no one to "translate"), and I've even seen "healers" perform sleazy parlor tricks (such as "leg lengthening").
I've seen churches so obsessed with "gifts" that the name of Jesus is barely mentioned, and barely a Bible verse read in services.
@@michaelnoble2432 my experience among charismatics and Pentecostals has been that the idea that people who don't speak in tongues are not saved is an aberrant viewpoint.
I have experienced real supernatural gifts in my Church of God including true prophecies and receiving a really powerful and crucial physical healing.
There's no doubt that there is a lot of crap Christianity and charismatics definitely have their share. My concern is on the basis of 1 Corinthians 14:37 I think that women pastors and those who are personally implicated in that practice have put themselves on very shaky ground to be prophets. When prophets are directly addressed in the scripture in a "hey you" fashion and that passage is reasoned away with third-rate exegesis (such as all the mining of the final chapters of Paul's epistles for imaginary women preachers) I think that's a really serious spiritual problem.
I wonder what you think about the position that male leadership is a result of a fall that should be redeemed? 1 Tim 2 is obviously not a cultural statement, but it does mention both creation and the fall.
It is pre-fall, I Tim. 2:13, I Cor. 11
@ My question specifically involves 1 Tim 2:14. Citing 2:13 is literally the worst answer to the question. For the record I do not think female elders are biblical.
The Fall is irrelevant.
A woman could only be given the authority by God to execute a man for his sin, if women are spiritually equal to men. A Judge could judge homicide cases according to Deuteronomy. Therefore Deborah, as a Judge, could execute a man for his sin. A Judge's verdict could not be altered or appealed.
A Judge was REQUIRED in scripture to judge only the hardest of cases.
Refusal to accept a Judge's verdict on any matter,
resulted in execution, according to Deuteronomy.
A Judge was cleared to teach from scripture as he/she gave a verdict, according to Deuteronomy. Since in Judges 4, men went to Deborah to be judged, a woman could teach men, even in the Old Covenant in a public setting.
Full read time: 10 minutes postable here
As a Christian man, I would not be a member of a church with a female pastor. Not out of sexism or anything like that. Soley from what is taught in scripture.
Judges 4 and 5, else my essay on Deborah.
100% Correct in your analysis. Thats because you were using the bible as constant reference (exegesic referencing).