Old Dragon Ball Names Confusing EVERYONE!
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 25 ส.ค. 2024
- In my lead-up to Dragon Ball Dissection December I tackle a couple of my favorite old fan terms that really caught on back in the day. What is a Senpyou? Is blonde Lunch really named Kushami? Where did these come from, and what logic are they based in? Some of this actually runs far deeper than I initially thought!
(Some material used with permission by Curtis Hoffmann)
Help support the channel for early access and other goodies!
/ mistarefusion
![ถามตรงๆ กับ อาจตุพร ทำไม ประเทศไทย ใครเป็นนายก ก็โดนด่า พอออกเเล้วคนคิดถึง!!?? l [Nickynachat]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/3YFLMXxBGAs/mqdefault.jpg)
![The Sympathetic Strawman - How Marvel Accidentally Created One of the Best MCU Characters [reupload]](/img/n.gif)
So proud of myself, with my 1.5 years of self-taught Japanese I managed to guess each problem just before it was explained. Feels like progress.
congrats, buddy! Keep up the good work
I cannot believe the harmony gold dub named him wiskers the wonder cat so senpyou is not that weird.
Yeah they went nuts on the name changes. My guess is that they didn't want to deal with all the wacky name puns so HG just threw them all out in favor names they came up with on their own. Plus this around the 80s/early 90s where this kind of practice was normal.
Now I’m imagining Karin flying off in a super suit while a hapless Yajirobe hanging from the cape.
@@Kolbatsu That's a story as old as anime dubs in the US. Everything's either an English pun or some goofy cartoony type name. I mean, Speed Racer? I'll just imagine that a family with the last name of "Racer" oh just happens to wind up having a family career in race car driving, but to name their kid Speed? A word that is in no way, shape, or form a name? And it just gets wackier from there, until today when fans can go online and complain to the dubbers' faces if they so much use the wrong Romanization or something.
Harmony Gold names were wild.
Imagine if they stuck. We would have Dragonball and the adventures of Zero and Bongo
@@tylercoon1791 Now that's a one hell of a timeline. If they put in as much elbow grease as they did with Robotech (initially), it might've worked but the names...
My favorite part was when Launch said "it's kushami time" and kushamied all over senpyou
0:43
Person A: Karin!
Person B: Korin!
Me: *Whiskers the Wonder Cat!*
i see you're a member of harmony gold culture as well
Matou Malí!
I want to find the cryogenically frozen person who will see the baseball episode of Super and say "hey it's Zedaki"
About the 'pyo' vs 'byo' thing. Herms is probably right about the mistake due to small font thing, but just to add a new wrinkle to this: rendaku. Because kanji is not confusing enough, the first consonant of a kanji o may change based in what come before by adding a dakuten (or handakuten). And, relevant here, the 'h' has two options, it usually becomes a 'b' but it can become a 'p', based on the previous kana. And the 'n' is exactly one cana that can change a 'h' to a 'p', for example, 'en' + 'hitsu' becomes 'enpitsu'. That is, I assume, what caused the confusion, the onyomi for 猫 is not too common, so he probably thought it was 'hyou', so 仙猫 would be 'sen'+'hyou' which would likely be 'senpyou'.
Yup, that was exactly my assumption too. It's worth noting that it's fairly rare for a kanji's "normal" on'yomi (without rendaku) to start with a "b" instead of a plain "h" in the first place if its structure is 'consonant + y + additional letters", though there are examples of course, such as "second" and "illness" ("byou" in both cases, like "neko"). Also, how many times do you encounter "cat" read as "byou"? Personally, not many, so I'd be lying if I said I didn't have to check my kanji dictionary for this one lol. AND, though I may be wrong, my natural tendency when seeing an "h" with a potential rendaku is to default to "p" rather than "b" (which is the opposite of what you said ig, ah well).
Very well explained! And it's interesting to note that if you put 仙猫 into Google Translate the Japanese voice will read it as "senbyou".
I'm clapping my feet and giggling right now. The absolutely tiny amount of Japanese I've learned made me at least vaguely familiar with this idea via "人々" or "Hitobito"
One thing of note: funimation changed ALMOST everything to Korin, except one. Upa and Boras tribe is the Karin-ga tribe, which Funimation seemed to not understand the connection with the name since they haven't changed it to Korin-ga
If they were going to localize it, would it not be better to go all the way with "Korin Fang"?
@@caejones2792It wouldn't fit the lip flaps.
@@mitchfletcher2386 Fang and ga are the same amount of syllables though
Koringa means Joker in portuguese
Why DID they change it to Korin? It's just one letter.
Clearly the correct translation is Whiskers the Wonder Cat
Ah the wacky world of DragonBall nomenclature. The world where one character has 5 different names and they're all right and wrong at the same time. Where video game names and terminology are real. Where Whiskers the Wonder Cat is also named Senpyou
I get that Lunch was sort of "the girl" stand-in for Blooma during the next chapter of Goku's journey, but other than the gag Toriyama came up with, I wonder if he had any sort of plans for her. I mean, her design is probably one of the best in all of Dragon Ball and it seems a waste that he went through the effort to make such a great character design only to not use it. I wonder if the gag just killed the "new Blooma" aspect she was supposed to fill or if Toriyama just got bored with that because he was more interested in wacky training and doing inventive fight scenes.
Lunch feels like a relic of Toriyama’s gag manga era. Look at these four people living together, how wacky! And you can kinda see how he wanted the gag dynamics to go, with Roshi’s lecherousness and Goku’s innocence playing off her. The issue is that… yeah, he found the martial arts more interesting, so Dragon Ball pivoted pretty hard away from just gags. Same reason why Oolong never really did anything again, his dynamic with Bulma was fun for a comedy but didn’t fit with martial arts.
I feel like Toriyama still could have done something more interesting with her, like Pilaf turned from a punchline into a major story element of the King Piccolo saga. Would be interesting to see a reboot of Dragon Ball that tries to rewrite around the sudden shifts (more interesting than trying to recapture Dragon Ball’s whimsical adventurous spirit by turning Goku into a kid, again, lol)
I always liked Lunch from a design point of view. I like her as a character, too, but there isn't a whole lot you can do with her, without moving on from her main/only gimmick.
Mistare i really like your videos because Dragon Ball is a series that has been talked about to death, and you delve into deep cut aspects and minutiae that is so fascinating and refreshing to hear about
Wistars the wonder cat
It was really awkward
I kinda dig Kushami as a fandom-assigned name for blonde Lunch. As you said, it fits with Dragon Ball, where characters are named after weird things, someone being called "Sneeze" isn't that strange, and it fits the character.
Yeah the Hoffman summaries are the reason why I love GT. I read the summaries back when we were still getting the Cell saga on Toonami. I felt like I was far ahead of everyone else, and that’s why I like the series to this day.
Oh come on, we all know his real name is Whiskers the Wonder Cat!
Reminds me of Ted Woolsey's original localization of Final Fantasy VI, where he misread 「ビッグス」("Bii-gu-su", or "Biggs", whom together with Wedge are an obvious Star Wars reference) as 「ビックス」("Bii-ku-su"), leading to him romanizing it as "Vicks".
Still not as bad as his Super Mario RPG localization, though.
What do you think about the remake
@@agentpaint What remake? FFVI hasn't received any remakes, only ports and graphical updates.
@otaking3582 Pretty sure they meant SMRPG
Also the original SMRPG localization doesn't bother me as much since it was a comedy RPG and character limits were a real concern, I give it a pass there and only there.
@@dekufiremage7808 I don't give it a pass. Even with comedy and character limits, the original SMRPG localization couldn't even do something as simple as getting established Mario names right. "Nokonoko Sheru" got turned into "Noknok Shell" instead of the far more obvious "Koopa Shell" ("Nokonoko" being the original Japanese name for Koopa Troopas), and the latter takes less characters to spell!
Having a new localization is pretty much the only reason I would buy the SMRPG remake, since otherwise it's a pointless remake with bland graphics.
@@otaking3582 Yeah there's definitely a lot of bizarrely and flat out incorrect name localizations. Some like Neosquid and Megasmilax seem like weird jokes but there's a lot that are just wrong.
But the reason I say I give it a pass over his other works is that at least the plot and overall dialogue weren't completely butchered. The major factor being that it's already a comedy game and there wasn't much plot to butcher to begin with, but still. Those FF games were practically turned into parodies of themselves.
DBD December is going to be bigger than Christmas in 100 years.
From what ive heard, a lot of the name mistakes in the dub were cuz in the very early days of Funimation, they got a bunch of very poorly translated scripts and notes faxed to them from Toei in Japan. That's supposedly why Tenshinhan became Tien Shinhan, Shenlong became Shenron, and yes, even the Karin/Korin thing. Since most American fans quickly latched onto those names, Funimation just stuck with them for consistency sake. They actually did try changing some names to be closer to the Japanese version in the Kai dub, but the higher ups eventually put a stop to it cuz of marketing shit.
This is correct.
Imagine the cat's name being "Karen", lol.
Anyway, a bit of trivia from this side of the world; in the latín american dub (which is regarded as one of the bests), the character's name is, Indeed, "Karin", however, the senzu beans, since they were introduced by him, are called "sage's beans", and they used that name for the entirety of the series, Z, GT, and Super included.
Very strangely, in the German dub, Karin is named Meister (master) Quitte (quince)
Not only that but they called the Kintoun cloud "Jindojun". After I did some very light research it seems that the origin lies in... french? French was one of the first to ever localize the Dragon Ball series into their language. Apparently it was cheaper to buy the license from french instead of japan and so many localizations are based on it. Yes... you get a translated version from a translated version. I wonder how many things got lost in translation because of that. If that's true you have to ask the french translators where the weird names come from. Also, it seems that "Jindojun" is the chinese pronunciation of Kintoun.
Its in the German manga too!
The basis for the German-language anime adaptation was a pre-edited French version, the dialogue translation, however, was based on the German manga series, or the original Japanese dub. Jürgen Seebeck (The German Translater of the Dragon Ball Manga) said that it was usually a case by case Basis what Kind of Name was appropiate for a charakter.
In this Podcast (its in german) th-cam.com/video/xB2sTqHmyjk/w-d-xo.htmlsi=893iuW60vwYuI2qS around 33:13 he says this and names "Meister Quitte" as one of the names that was germanized. (My best guess is that it is a reference to Warrior Cats because it has a cat named Quitte and as a pun for the fruit to keep with Toriyama's naming scheme for food related puns) Jindujun also confused me, but in the same interview Seebeck talked about his love for Eastern Stories, martial Arts etc. So I can see him putting the original Chinese pronunciation to make the Journey To West reference clearer, since the manga was also translated from the original japanese ^^ (also the first manga in Germany to be published in the right-to-left reading direction)
Not strange at all, actually. The Japanese word for quince is "karin", so the translator simply missed the entire "Karin-to is a pun on Karinto" thing and assumed the land, the tower and the cat were all simply named after the word karin. It's understandable, especially if you haven't caught on to Toriyama's fondness for pun names. Karin is one of the more complicated puns in the series.
Based on that podcast, it seems he never figured out what the character's name was actually supposed to be a pun on. Germanizing "karin" to "Quitte" makes sense if the character is actually named after karin, but it's straight up wrong when he's named after karinto.
@@MariaYuri-qo8jyThat parses. I remember in Puerto rico, spanish dubs were sometimes based on simply translating the US dub of a show, even if a seperate Spanish-language dub already existed for the rest of the world.
Hey now, the Makankosappo was still being perfected when Raditz landed; that's why it took so long to charge (in my anime head-canon).
That's what I always thought.
Here's a fun anecdote about Dragon Ball misinformation. I live in Peru and I remember it being almost the end of the Freeza saga.
I found a strange poster with some Dragon Ball characters and their names, with artwork from the Cell and Buu sagas but zero context. I don't know if whoever made it had any access to the Japanese material or was just guessing, but many names were completely wrong. Perfect Cell was "Freezer", final-form Freezer was "Krillin" and SSJ3 Gotenks was "Gohan". Now, other than some promotional material (and the opening) spoiling that Super Saiyans were blonde, we really had no other information about the future, nor any reason to think the poster was wrong.
This means that for some time, I thought the foreshadowed Freeza final transformation was Perfect Cell, which made sense because of the turquoise skin. I thought Krillin would maybe have some sort of body reconstruction that made him look like final-form Freeza, and they are both bald so, again, total sense. And I thought Gohan would become a Super Saiyan, stay short, and grow his hair long again like in the fight against Vegeta. I never questioned any of it, and it's hilarious how much sense it made.
Proof im old is that I remember these
On the whole "Pyo/Byo" thing, there is one other example I can think of for stuff like this... kinda. In Digimon one of the titular Digital Monsters is called "Piyomon", its name a reference to how Japanese renders the sound birds make (ピヨピヨ). However when the series was brought over I guess they misread that first kana since all sudden Piyomon became "Biyomon".
Given how they also misread Taichi's last name (八神, which is supposed to be read as "Yagami" but somehow got turned into "Kamiya") I guess this is proof even profesionals screw up sometimes.
Huh, I was gonna comment something of this nature myself.
I thought of Piyomon/Biyomon as well... though, Digimon in general is a kind of Interesting case with how it's a mix bag of preserved names(Sora, Mimi, ken), anglicized names(Hikari to Kari, Jou to Joe, Yamato to Matt, Daisuke to Davis), completely different names(Koushirou to Izzy, Miyako to Yolei, Iori to Cody), and whatever you want to call changes like Taichi to Tai and Takeru to TK. Best I can remember most old dubs where more consistent about either keeping original names(aside from the usual transcription issues, especially with characters who don't have natively Japanese names) or change nearly everything.
@@JefferyMewtamer I'm pretty sure Koushiro gets Izzy from Izumi which is the character's family name.
@@JefferyMewtamer I think "Izzy" just came from Koshiro's last name (Izumi) but yeah.
Miyako having her name changed to Yolei ironically wasn't even the first choice apparently! Originally she was gonna be called "Kyo" which I assume happened because someone misread the second Kanji in her name. They changed it because "It was too hard to pronounce".
But Mystic Gohan sounds so cool, though!
Honestly it just brings me back to Gozar's ARDBZ parody, if anyone remembers. Those were simpler times.
Ah, on the topic of misreading kanji, that reminds me of another shounen series. I'm not sure how familiar with JoJo's Bizarre Adventure you are, but there's a character in that series named Noriaki Kakyoin. At one point in the series, though, he signs his name as Tenmei Kakyoin. Within the context that it pops up where another party member also signs a fake name to catch an enemy in a trick, it might come across as reasonable. But the reality was that his name was actually meant to be Tenmei originally and it was misread and kept as Noriaki!
His name is Whiskers the wonder-cat and I'll hear no arguments!
Things like this make me really glad I just barely missed this era of the fandom by a few years getting my start during the time of the Funimation Toonami dub (The actual Funi dub not Ocean) which also had Original DB air around the same time here so I watched both. Later on got into the manga, GT, and even switching from dubs to subs.
I remember calling her actually sneeze aswell but not I am really unsure where that came from. Anyways great video thank you thank you
Carful Fusion, my OC in XENOVERSE is Mystic Zenkai Shenron.
From what I recall, my first introduction to "Dragonball" was Psyguy's sonic fanfics, followed by "dablackgoku" who had real media versions of the japanese episodes (which is still the only way I have actually seen the full series)
My guess for why 兎人参化 was changed from と to うさぎ is that it was to make it more comprehensible to viewers at home. The onyomi of 兎, と, doesn't really appear in any common words that aren't metaphors, and so just hearing と wouldn't be enough for someone to make the connection to it being rabbit. In the manga, you have the kanji clearly there, so it's fine, but to make it more obvious to people just hearing the audio, the reading was changed. (In regards to cat, there are a few common words that have it read as びょう, like 愛猫, あいびょう, pet cat, or 怪猫かいびょう, cat monsters in Japanese folklore, so it would probably easier for a viewer to make the connection.) Maybe similar to how most English speakers would understand a pun on the words "canine" and "feline" but would struggle with "ursine" (related to bears), even though they've most definitely heard the root, in words like Ursa Major.
A bit of speculation on my part but I also think that for manga readers, と would probably conjure up bigger feelings of Journey to the West-style Chinese fantasy.
This video was awesome. I love your channel and how you really get into the weeds of Dragon Ball translations. As a late 90s kid, this is a problem I never experienced. It’s really awesome to learn about the trials and tribulations of the DB fandom before my time. Keep up the great work!!
In Brazil, there's and older dub of the Trunks' special where Vegeta and Yamcha were renamed to "Sudi" and "Niten", Senpyou got nothing on those two!
MAS O QUE RAIOS
@@justbny9278 Minha exata reação ao descobrir isso
Do those names mean anything? Strange decision
@@dekufiremage7808 No, not in portuguese at least, I have no idea where those names came from. The original dubs for the Bardock and Trunks specials here in Brazil where particularly weird. The main series was already being dubbed and had a mosty decent translation, but for some reason those two specials are PACKED with bizarre choices and mistakes, like Planet Vegeta being mistakenly called "Belita"
Excellent video as usual
11:39 That´s heavy, Doc.
Thank you for the lesson. Your videos are always interesting on the different parts of Dragon Ball history, in universe and real life.
This is also an important lesson on scrutinizing sources. Even 300+ year old encyclopedias and manuscripts that are cited 1000s of times often end up originally citing 2nd hand accounts or similar mistranslations.
In the italian adaptation it's Balzar for Karin/Korin
This was so deeply interesting. Definitely would watch more of these but I imagine they aren't as easy to make/come by
Karin, Korin, Senpo, all too confusing. I'll stick to Wiskers the wonder can.
I'll also call Goku "Zero" and Vegita "Beta" because those are easier to spell. Or technically if I want to be accurate to the dub Vegita should be called "Betuh" but I will ignore that
Krillin will be "Clearin" and what Piccolo will be everyone already knows so I don't need to say it.
Waah! Its beeg green!
@@lexzeyfercronus it's Uncle Motong
Just when you think you know all the DB trivia there is to know, here comes MistareFusion to prove you wrong again 😆
I've been watching your videos since the Freeza arc, for years I would think "wow, he uses the original Japanese pages, I wish I could read them!" and now, as a new Japanese learner, being able to read and decipher the issue just by looking at the page feels so rewarding!
Fascinating stuff!
Why isn't this a db dissection?
Love these videos!
Don’t forget beerus used to be called “bills”
I know a paltry 2013 is nothing to early 90s In lack of name info
But hey I’m nostalgic for the battle of gods era.
Wait... Beerus announcement is 10 years old????
Some countries still use Bills to this day lol
@@kamatariedgar3603 …… yup
@@YourGuyAlex * turning into dust *
And let's not forget how it was originally meant to be "Virus"!
A bit of entomology. Good stuff sir.👌🏽
"This term appears in Dragon Ball" is the new "This word appears in the bible"
7:27 you accidentally summarized Dragon Ball Dissection in nutshell ;)
This was very interesting. Thank you!
Hell yea DBD December/November
Loved the plutonium reference!
Time to break out the Danish translation of the manga: "Ranchi's Sneeze" is named the Danish for "Gesundheit!" or "Bless you!" and Mester Kvæde as we call him is named "The magic man" to make the joke work. He says "But you may call me magic cat, hehehe!" Kvæde is a type of plant. I've never seen it used in Danish outside of Dragon Ball.
I never thought he was called mystic gohan, I looked it up back then and realized there's no such thing and it was actually Ultimate Gohan
It's kinda cool. I got my Dragon Ball story summary from you just like you did from Hoffmann. The whole of Dragonball was described to me by watching DBD. The Piccolo 5-minute mistake is like my equivalent of when Hofman called Karin "Senpyou". You made a mistake and then I took it as fact because I didn't know any better. Except I have the manga so I have no excuse.
Didn't know these were a thing. I misread bi as pi and the other way around all the time even with scans that are pretty clear. Easy mistake to make. I don't have the drive with my scans plugged in right now, but they're probably not any better, but from zooming in on yours... that looks more like び than ぴ to me (even looking at these at my monitor right now, it's not super easy to see the difference).
Anyway, I did think of Karin as being the Cat Hermit, since I first saw the Japanese version of that scene. Makes sense to me. Turtle Hermit, Cat Hermit, Crane Hermit. But in his case there's the twist of him actually being the animal. Which is unexpected because of Kamesennin being an old man (instead of Umigame), but also exactly what you would expect if you ignore the precedent.
You should have also talked about how fan translators were calling Beerus "Bills" for a long time. Also, what about names like "Gokuu" "Gokuh" and "Gokou?"
I've seen Gokou in a few Japanese games from the 90s, so it wasn't just translators.
@@fernandobanda5734 Much like "Bulma," these were actually bad attempts to render a Dragon Ball character name with English letters. You'll actually find some fans that swear that "Gokuh" is the "right" way to spell that name and you'll see it sometimes in fansubs. The way Manga and Anime makers write their character's names in English letters should be taken as a suggestion rather than a rule.
@@therealhardrock Yep. Can't forget the KULILIN hat.
my fav is Bardock's name being spelled as Barduck on some japanese merch.
I know you talked about why Zenkai became popularized as a term, but did you ever talk about how Mystic Gohan became a thing?
Where did he talked about the zenkai term? I forgot.
Wasn't that from a Budokai game?
@@zEr-ne5ri In the first episode of his Dissection of the Animated Boo arc, he mentions it, referring to a forum thread where its origins are investigated. TLDR it came from an Italian (with the english language though) fan-DB website in 2003. It's likely not where the term itself first originated (could have been used in discussions amongst italian fans prior), but it's most likely that source that popularized it.
@@Kolbatsu I think Geekdom101 talked about it once, and the very first instance came from a plastic card game, then again it's been years since I've watched it.
@@succubastard1019 first off. Thanks for the help. second off no wonder I forgot about it. He only talks it about a few seconds. I mean hey he at least mostly kept his word on not talking about it.
7:23 Yeah, I figured this was gonna be a Japanese lesson when that hell spawn concept known as the on'yomi and kun'yomi readings was mentioned.
Not that I'm complaining, though. It's never a bad time to go through the basics again.
Darn, my ears! I've been hearing Karin as Cardian all these years watching these videos. Don't know how that happened.
12:03 Actually, I don't think you addressed that misnomer I've seen in the past: where _DID_ the title 'Mystic Gohan' come from when referring to his 'Ultimate' state? Obviously it's being treated as a transformation there, and I've seen it in a few places (even a character in M.U.G.E.N, Mystic Ken), but where's the source for that?
Possibly a fan/merchandise-ism that just never died out. "Ultimate Gohan" as a literal trademarked name vs just a description definitely came from the videogames.
It doesn't help some of the earliest translated merchandise in 90s anime could be pretty... free with translation and "canon"; if you told me it showed up on some trading card by accident Id totally believe you.
I actually came across a Gohan toy at a pawn shop that had the Mystic Gohan name on the package, so someone official must've used it. Hell, I never even knew people called him Mystic Gohan until I watched ARDBZ.
Thinking on that last point, on a long-term project like this, must be tricky to fight the feeling of wishing it was all up to whatever your current standards are as you improve over time.
in german, korins name is quince (the fruit), so they call the region quince-forrest, the tower quince-tower and him master quince.
One of the first things I thought about when you brought the chapter title name Ranchi no Kushami was if someone had thought it was Ranchi to Kushami, as that's a pretty obvious mistake to make.
In some European dubs Karin was known as.... Matou Malí. Probably because of the French dub or something. Spain in particular kept that name for the whole original run and only reverted to Karin for Super.
Ah yes, dakuten and handakuten in manga speech bubble furigana, a thorn in the sides of manga readers throughout the generations.
Interesting about this old lore
“Basic Japanese lesson disguised as a TH-cam video.”
Slowly morphing into the jan Misali of Dragon Ball
If I didn't know they dubbed Z before Dragon Ball, I'd think they changed his name to Korin to sound like corn so they could translate the karinto snacks line
they dubbed the first 13 episodes + blood rubies first then went to dbz
@@toastrave7820 Well, yeah but when people talk about FUNimation they normally mean the second dub, besides, it's a moot point because Karin doesn't appear in those 13 episodes, so the rename still would've taken place while dubbing Z
I always suspected the change was mostly cause Karen sounds like a woman's name in English (tbh "Karin" IS a viable Japanese girl name too) and Korin had too much of the "old sage" personality around him to just make him a female character.
Never grew up in those wild times, with funny fansites, incorrect translations, bootleg subbed anime, Sub vs Dub comparisons, but I still see those garbage manga scans from 25 years ago with the loss of detail, Comic Sans font and so many"un-trans" speech bubbles still floating around to this day.
11:32
"Why don't you just buy a house with Ox-King's money?!"
This video makes me wonder what causes On'yomi to have B & P becoming flipped as I know of another instance as one of my favorite songs from Japan is written out as 小白竜 is called Xiao Bai Ron when read in On'yomi while also being sung as such while Shou Haku Ryuu is it's name in Kun'yomi but is never used by fans or official releases but all western releases is called Shao Pai Long.
This is called Rendaku. It's very common when combining two words to form a compound in Japanese. Like "Oozaru", which is formed from oo and saru.
There are a few things going on here:
1) "b" in Mandarin Pinyin represents the sound "p" unaspirated (as in "space"). No, really. They write it as B but don't pronounce it /b/. This is to contrast with P which is aspirated (as in "pace"). So, when you see "Xiao Bai Ron" it doesn't mean that the sound isn't "pai".
2) There are many kinds of on'yomi depending on how long ago the borrowing happened. For example, the same character was historically baek in Chinese, so it was "byaku" in Japanese. But a later borrowing of the same word is "haku". And a LATER borrowing is "pai" (closer to how it's pronounced today). So, there are certain correlations between what sounds were made in Chinese and how they translated to Japanese, BUT it's extremely important to know the era in which the borrowing happened to really make sense of those patterns.
Hope this helps!
why senbyou when sen'NYAN is right the fuck there
Got to love Master Korin ❤
btw, before an ん, there are many times when a び gets converted to a ぴ, and since 仙猫 is not a real Japanese word but a Toriyama joke, how to spell it is kinda arbitrary, the on-yomi can change if it's easier to pronounced just based on convenience
Edit: for example, 発表 is pronounced はっぴょう, even though the on-yomi of 発 is はつ and the on-yomi of 表 is ひょう
12:22 I always thought it was 5 minutes too
But is it TURBO glue?
What is the correct way to refer to a Zenkai Boost, and what is its etymology? Saiyan Power like the wiki seems to use, or the near death power up like you used? How did we get Zenkai from this part of Saiyan biology? Honestly I'm still going to use Zenkai because it's a good fandom short hand.
It doesn't have a name. It's just a thing that happens, just like "getting stronger" doesn't have a specific name or "training" doesn't have a special term. Never follow what the wiki does. The wiki is usually not good. If you're interested in the etymology, I talk about that term (very) briefly in this video, but more importantly, I link to a thread where a very knowledgeable friend of mine does a lot of the digging to uncover when and where it came from to be used as such by fans. th-cam.com/video/A8HgKB9iqwc/w-d-xo.html
Wait Lunch and Launch are contested localitions?
I always thought it was a clever wordplay with Lunch being the name of her good half and Launch being the name of her bad half.😅
The dub that aired on Toonami back in the day consistantly called both of them Launch, and the fansites of that era consistantly gave her original name as Lunch.
That said, I've seen the Lunch = Blunette, Launch = blonde convention used in a few recent fanfics, and it's now my head canon, especially since it fits with their respective personalities(Lunch being a cook and housekeeper, Launch being likely to pull out a rocket launcher if she gets serious). Would be pretty epic word play on Toriyama's part if he deliberately picked a pair of names for the twins that are similar in English and have identical Japanization though.
6:50 My guess is they assumed a rendaku would occur after sen, because there's many cases of rendaku occur after san. Not sure how proficient they were in Japanese at the time, especially without the luxury of numerous online resources. Either that or simple brain fart.
I kushami on senpyous because i'm super alergic to them xD
Did you pitch up that archive audio of your commentary so it's easily distinguished from your present self?
Yep. Usually the difference is notable enough that I've never had to do that before. But I was in a hurry, I didn't have time to record a new line to make it obvious I was about to jump into a different piece of audio, so that was the fastest way I could think of to separate them.
Japanese be whack yo. It is so easy to mis interpret or mistranslate things. Literally everyone got the name of the final island in One Piece wrong for 20 years until new context revealed the actual meaning of the name and how it should have been translated the entire time.
My Japanese isn't fantastic, but from what I understand, a word's writing/pronunciaton can change when it's tacked on to another word, and that's how _byou_ might become _pyou_ in "senpyou", just like _kame_ becomes _game_ in "umigame".
That is definitely true. That very well can happen. You are absolutely right (see also oozaru). But apparently it does not happen here, given how the anime pronounces this, and how every fluent Japanese speaker I've since consulted about this has said they've not heard of and can find no evidence of byou ever becoming pyou. As you can see in the video, I'm still hesitant to ever say never, but it sure doesn't seem like it's the case here.
@@MistareFusion Fair enough! I just double-checked how it's pronounced in the anime and it does indeed sound like "byou".
Yeah I think the translator might have just assumed rendaku would occur after Sen or simply marked it down wrong in his notes
@@MistareFusion Fun fact, though, the anime scripts don't use furigana, so to play devil's advocate, it's totally plausible that Nagai just figured it was read senbyou even if Toriyama intended "senpyou". We did end up with Freeza talking about a "Chou Saiya-jin" in the Z anime the first time the term got brought up because nobody told Nakao that 超 was supposed to be read "suupaa" in that line.
@@Pikachu132 Also a very good point!
planet namek and DBU lmao DBZSC 4 life
3:15 who tf is him??
I literally say who tf him is at that timestamp.
meister quitte vom quitten turm
Wenn du Tao Bai Bai besiegen willst, kletter ihn hoch, ne!
Ich habe immer noch keine Ahnung wie die Übersetzer auf dem Namen gekommen sind. (vor allem da um die selbe zeit rum angefangen haben das Kamehameha auch Kamehameha zu nennen)
@@rynobehnke8289 Karin is the Japanese word for Quitte, that's where he got it from. He failed to realize the name is actually a pun on karinto.
(sorry for the English, I can read German okay, but I'm awful at writing it)
So he's not gonna review Dragonball GT?
It’ll continue next video.
@@ryanbrodsky5488 I was referencing the old joke about Mistare Fusion not reviewing GT, while he had already annouced it many times.
Can you elaborate on the zenkai. Maybe you talked about it in another episode but I can't remember what the confusion was about
It's a fan term, Vegeta talked about it a couple of times but both him nor any official media never gave it a name.
Ted Woolsey 🤝 Curtis Hoffmann
doing their best honestly translating is hard
that makes me curious actually as to what mistarefusion thinks about the SMRPG remake, because a lot of wooleyisms were actually kept intact
I will use "Zenkai" as a description of Sayians power boost till I die.
What is the official term? None? Something like "Saiyan Power"? This sucks and you know it.
By the way you can't say "Saiyajin power" ether as that is what Baby calls all of the Saiyajin KI already meaning that phrase is already in use elsewhere.
Yeah, it doesn't have an official name. I think it's okay to use it when talking about it with fans, but I think using something like "recovering power up" is better than a random Japanese word.
Isn't Kushami pronounced with the emphasis on the KU rather than the SHA? kuSHAmi just sounds really weird to me 😅
There is no syllable stress in Japanese. Every syllable should get roughly equal length and emphasis.
@@themrdoggo The middle one of the three doesn't though, right? Take Naruto, Sasuke and Sakura for instance. I've never heard them pronounced with equal emphasis per syllable
@@Adonis.D.Prince They all have equal stress in Japanese. There might be vowel reduction, pronouncing Naruto or Sasuke closer to Narto/Saske, but that's a different concept from actual syllable stress.
In English for example, you have a word like "Enemy". We spend much more time pronouncing the first syllable, and give it a stronger pronunciation. Japanese would spend roughly the same amount of time on all three syllables of a similar word, and pronounce them all with similar force.
From the Japanese phonetics wiki, "In English, stressed syllables in a word are pronounced louder, longer, and with higher pitch, while unstressed syllables are relatively shorter in duration. Japanese is often considered a mora-timed language, as each mora tends to be of the same length,[62] though not strictly: geminate consonants and moras with devoiced vowels may be shorter than other moras.[63] Factors such as pitch have negligible influence on mora length.[64]"
@@themrdoggo Thanks for your detailed explanation. So, if I'm understanding you correctly, the difference I'm hearing is a vowel reduction, and not an emphasis on a syllable like we use in the west? It sure sounds like the first syllable get s a lot more stress in three syllable words, but it could be I'm imagining it since I'm used to European languages
@@Adonis.D.Prince yeah it's mostly just hard to tell coming from the perspective of a language that does have syllable stress.
In a word like Sasuke, the U is usually not pronounced, this is vowel reduction. But the actual timing, SA-S(U)-KE is going to be roughly identical between all three syllables in normal speech, both in the length between syllables and the length that each syllable lasts.
Ya can't say zankai boosts aren't called that or don't exist without educating us about that truth.... I'm too curious and my brains in Chaos now.
Well, I didn't in this video partly because I'd already kinda talked about it in another one. I hope this points in the right direction, and that with the knowledge spreading we can eventually eradicate this nonsense fan term. th-cam.com/video/A8HgKB9iqwc/w-d-xo.html
@MistareFusion Ah... Thank you for pointing me in the right direction... Often, it feels like the TH-cam comment sections are just yelling into the void, so I appreciate you taking the time to help. Watched the video... Lady Red.... Yikes!
Of course! And I'm glad you enjoyed the video. I hope you followed the link in the description of that video because that's really what breaks down where the term came from.
@@MistareFusion I doubt the term would be eliminated even if everyone knew it was a fan term. Fans clearly want a name for it, if only to be able to discuss it, or the name wouldn't have spread. Absent any official name, they'll probably just keep on using the unofficial one.
I've never seen something being known to be unofficial to stop fans from using it.
It's not going to stop me from trying, though. :-D
Yeaaaah
Let's get this video to a lot of views in the first hour so that it gets love from youtube
Algorithm bless this video which i liked even before watching it because it's that good
Seriously, sometimes i end up pissed off because i can't like it again after watching it, fix that youtube
Lots of words lots of engagement, yadda yadda
"You guys still believe that a near death power up is called a Zenkai."
Now look who's being smug. 😑 What would you called then Mr. Pretentious?
Doesn't have a name!
@@someoneelse2384 Which is exactly why Zenkai became such a big thing because no one wants in there fan debate to keep having to write "A Sayiajin becomes stronger after surviving a near death situation (that can't knowingly be self inflected)"
@@someoneelse2384then what would you call it?
Why is it so important for it to be called anything? Why does every last thing have to have a specific name to be cataloged? Toriyama didn’t seem to think it needed a name since he wrote a whole story around it without calling it anything, and that worked just fine. If I say that Goku spent seven years training, does that need a name too? Or is it fine to simply refer to it as “those seven years he spent training”?
Honestly, my issues with the proliferation of the term are twofold: it spreads misinformation because people genuinely believe that it has a specific term and that zenkai is that term; and that it’s just not a very good way to describe what is actually being talked about. It’s catchy, I’ll give you that, and easy to say. Is “near death power-up” really that much more awkward as a shorthand? Eh, maybe marginally so. Why not take a page out of speedrunners’ playbooks and call it damage boosting? Those at least manage to describe what the thing actually is, as opposed to a random Japanese word that is only very tangentially-related to the concept.
It would be as if fans called Goku’s time with Kaio “apple training.” After all, there’s an apple involved. Bubbles picked an apple that one time, remember? And Goku’s main objective was to overcome the gravity and the apple smashed through the ground because of the heavy gravity so we should call it apple training. That’s what applying zenkai here is equivalent to.
@@MistareFusion
I would first of all like to say that you are and have made clear so in parts of this series yourself first and for most interested in characters and story as is.
However many people do have other or just more things about a work of fiction that interest them or other ways in which they want to consume it.
So when saying "its not need because the story never needed to name it anything" do you miss the point entirely as its almost exclusively used by people that already use a ton of words for debating speculative over the series to the point were they often fall back to what official Guide say which are always filled to the brim with for the story useless information like Super Saiyajing Multiplier or what Goku's Battle power was when he fought Freezer.
So while in no means important to the story does it for the people that do engage in such debate so much easier to have a single word to describe the phenomenon.
To give an example of Toriyama doing the same thing would be giving the Scouter its name so he doesn't have to always describe the device when talking about it but can just drop its unique name any everyone know what is mend. He could always have just called it "Battle power tracking device" and it wouldn't have made a difference but he gave it a name to make talking about it easier.
For people that are deep into world building is it also always good to have actual names for things in the world as we in our real world also name just about everything and don't just describe its function.
So while I entirely understand why you disagree with using the word Zenkai for it so is there absolutely a reason why so many people want a name for it.