Fully agree Tommie, all of the manufacturers of clubs put in their marketing how they are offering premium grade Shafts then you see the TXG and wonder, why do they???? Good work guys this is why we watch your show :)
I put a Ventus Blue Velocore into a G410LST and it’s the most accurate and longest driver ever. I did not miss a fwy on my last round and as the round progressed I just swung harder as my confidence grew. This shaft is unreal. No duck hooks in last 2 rounds where 2 per was the norm. Duck hooks are my bad miss which just ruins a round. The Velocore was put into play because of the great numbers from your previous tests. Thanks guys and after watching this video no more stock shafts. This Velocore Blue that is currently in play won’t be leaving the bag for quite some time.
I really don't like companies that do this with their stock shafts, the Atmos range does it right in my opinion by completely changing the graphics. But rants over lol great video guys
Tried the Velocore version. Not a fan. Rigid and very stiff in the tip. Requires a higher end swing speed to load the shaft. For us mortals...stick switch the stock version and save yourself $175.
I got the oem Ventus on ebay, thinking it was the aftermarket, but I'm glad the difference is not so big. Will try it over the weekend, I am replacing a Fujikura Pro73.
Love the informative content. If theres one thing I would like to see different, is to always have the "tester" hit the driver without knowing which shaft is which. Eliminate placebo effect variable.
They did this before with iron shafts. Matt still could guess pretty closely which was which but as for a club as long as a driver, it’s gonna be pretty easy to tell which is which. The aftermarket shafts are so much more stable. You can tell just from waggling them
This proves what we've all expected. It's not center strikes, it's increasing the consistency of strikes on the face! With a small sample Matty proved that he would have cost himself a few strokes with the stock version. For a serious golfer who plays 50 rounds/yr on avg, it's 700 drives or so, of which a probably 50-75 drives would have worse outcomes in the year. Amortized across the few years you'll own the club (unless you're a Golfwrx member 😁) that's a small per driver premium. As Ian said, it WILL be reflected in your score
I think the most important statement was “is it even the same shaft”. I think they should not name aftermarket and stock shafts the same,it’s misleading to the consumer. Put a different paint job and call it something else cause that’s what it is. If you took the profile of both shafts without the name you never say they are both the same venture. Good explanation and video as usual!
They don't put a different paint job on ANY sporting goods. The fake NFL and NBA balls are IDENTICAL to the authentic ones. Same with Samba and Kangaroo Sambas. Same with Jerseys. Stop with this nonsense. You can buy a cheap synthetic leather MLB baseball for $3 and its IDENTICAL to the $30 authentic. Down to the letter. Industry standard.
@@MrAhuraMazda just because it's done with other merchandise doesn't mean it's right. Also why would you want a lower quality product having the same name and look as your premium product.
MrAhuraMazda187 I think you can have an alternative opinion without patronising someone by telling them to grow up. It’s a reasonable frustration to have, particularly when you’re looking at $850 AUD (or whatever it costs in other parts of the world). TM are clearly cashing in on the hype of the Ventus and for any uninformed person purchasing from a big box store, they’re not getting what they think they are. The comparison re baseballs isn’t really apt because they’re not marginally close in cost. The oem Ventus might be perfectly fine, but people should be properly informed. Btw I understand Titleist offer real deal shafts.
@@markwilliams21 your frustrations are unfounded and most certainly not reasonable. Literally, EVERY product in the sporting goods world does this. Every one. An authentic NFL ball isnt even sold on the market. The ones the pros play isnt even sold. The "authentic" is $135 and IDENTICAL to the $25 synthetic leather one. So stop crying about an industry standard. Youre obviously mad you can show off your expensive shaft cause it looks the same. Then its not for you. These shafts are for people who demand that level performance. Not show offs. And buyers arent "tricked." The aftermarket shafts are for buyers who know exactly what they want.
@@DanielRodrigues-hn8cx to establish a brand identity. Thats why the ENTIRE sporting good world does it. There are minor visual differences btw. They just look similar. And thats done in EVERY facet of sporting goods. Theres like 5 tiers of jerseys you can buy at escalating prices and they all looks 90% the same. Same as these shafts
Great video. I had apparently not seen it. Sold my "older" hybrid to my mate who needed it more than I. I excitedly bought a hybrid with the Ventus blue so how wrong can it go. ... grabbed it, paid and took off. yeah ... It was a stiff shaft but felt a wee soft and the ball landed within the distance I wanted but leaked left and right. Thought it was because was not used to the club. Then I saw something about the velcor and it struck me ... . D A. So club head is great. Shaft is not what I thought. And today ... this video popped up and laughed in my face ... when I saw the first drives from Iron Byron. A great disappointment. And even more a disappointment because I have watched TXG and instead of hitting a few balls ... I grabbed it and took off.
Very interesting video seeing the contrast between two shafts that are the “same”, but clearly not the same. Just goes to show even more importance on making sure your clubs are built to the tolerances of the ones you got fit into.
Whats the basic difference in stiffness between velicore and stock in the same designation i.e. stiff vs stiff. Half a flex ? Or is it so different that profiles are worlds apart.
I would love to intern or work for you! 10+ years of video production experience and 20 years of playing golf. Too bad immigrating to Canada is difficult. Although Toronto is one of the best cities I have ever visited, I don't think it's in the cards UNLESS it was just post. Is this happening? I think this is happening. #DreamJob :) Keep it up!
Sooo question, thoughts on say older version of premium shafts vs stock shafts? Say like Fujikura speeder evo 2 vs stock shafts of today ? Have stock shafts surpassed these older premium/exotic shafts ? Anyway thanks for the top quality content as always!
Alex Rankin I don’t think that is true. I think your paying for the timing. When I buy a driver 2-3 years later price is super low. You’re not paying for the head, you are paying for the timing and marketing.
Chris fit me into Ventus Blue with my F9 last year and you can feel toe strikes that end up in the fairway due to the quality of the shaft...wasn't sure a shaft could be high MOI but I've seen it play out exactly that way
I'd like to see you repeat this perhaps 30 times, using different participants and also blind testing (i.e. remove psychological bias where they don't know which shaft they are using). At that point you might start to have some reliable data
I'm so glad you guys went and did this. I've been telling players - ever since the whole Stock vs aftermarket versions started being made that there were differences. we even saw them most times in the fitting, but players didn't listen because manufacturers continued to say that "there was no difference" just to impress the OEMs. Finally they're onboard with it. Aftermarket is just a better investment in performance.
@@joey5picks depends. Some get a big difference between the two and some dont, but there are differeces for some players. If the lower cost option works the best for you, go with it! That's more golf!
Playing a TM SIM Max 10.5* with Ventus Red S stock shaft. Bought it at 44”, so its frequency analysis is 275, so just about “X” flex for that length. I like the length, being 65, long arm reach, and grew up playing shorter shafts....last club fitting I did showed 44” gave me 4-5 mph more ball speed than the standard.....44.5” is about as long as I have swung the driver and had consistent ball strikes & control. Question, in an effort to get a little more peak height & carry distance, am I better off putting a 1/2” plug in this existing shaft, or buying a Ventus Red Velocore at 44.5”? Would a 60R vs 50S help at all? Clubhead speed is 92-95mph.
Much anticipated video here! I play with some golfers who believe their stock Ventus has the velocore. They need to watch this. That center strike deviation is the ticket! This exact thing happened to me in a fit when I went to a high end shaft fit for me. Key words “fit for me”, not just grabbed off the shelf
Great video as ever gents, I did this test myself earlier this year and had the same findings. Curiously i also found the cpm of the non velocore shaft was higher than the velocore shaft in the same flex almost as if they made the standard version stiffer to attempt to mimic the velocore materials. That was comparing a blue 6s velocore to a 6s standard. The standard was good but the velocore was just plain awesome and for me a real game changer. Thanks
Thx- I got fit ( hit about 25 shafts ) the Velcro Black - S was good margin best for ball speed etc . I put on a Taylor Made M5. Longest , straightest . Was told hand made ! I looked at 3- wood TM with stock ( blue ) g
Great video guys... unfortunately the SIM family in Asia is sold with a "Exclusively for" Tensei Blue, at 50 grams... I wonder if a similar comparison between the Stock Tensei vs Aftermarket Tensei would yield similar results like the Ventus?
Mistubishi is better about keeping it clear. The 50g only comes one way. The Tensei Pro series is analogous to the Fuji velocore version of Ventus. It's laid out clearly on their website.
For the first time in a long time the Ventus shaft is perfect for measuring stock vs aftermarket, this vid and the F1 Vs driving to dinner analogy is perfecto, love it lads
At what clubhead speed would this begin to make a significant difference? Would someone who swings 95-100 mph notice the same difference or would there be less deflection?
Another great one! I really like how you described considering the value, specifically mentioning the view over ~5years. I think that is an important point for customers to consider when making a purchase.
Impressive display of highlighting the differences and what to look for between OEM shaft and aftermarket. The consistency and dispersion of aftermarket shaft in Matt’s hands were impressive. Well done TXG.
Matty hammered those!!! Put it in the bag! Did Matty's swing change? Looks like he got the club alittle more horizontal at the top of his backswing than in some previous videos I watched. Great info guys..... thanks!!!!
I play the f9 with blue atmos shaft..I feel like its behind me and have to swing it easy. Would you swap it for the hazardous smoke 6.0 my speed is around 112 mph thanks gaz
Any chance you could do a video on shaft spine angles and how it effects performance? Seen a few videos regarding it but you guys are the professionals. Also is it something you do before building someone their set? Obviously most OEMs don't do it when bulk making sets so would it make much of a difference to the amateur golfer if they weren't properly aligned?
I’m assuming from this analysis that if I go from a stock Ventus 5r to a Velocore 5r, I’ll probably need to adjust my loft up a bit to keep them roughly the same.
Great information as usual fellas. The Velocore model is a different shaft all together. Different specs for sure but it was interesting how Matty noticed the actual diameter of the shaft and taper was different. Other than paint colour and the manufacturer being the same - two different shafts. Thanks again for the excellent sharing of knowledge and results!
Same paint jobs are the industry standard in sporting goods across the board. You can buy a synthetic leather MLB baseball for $3 that is IDENTICAL to the $35 authentic one and it is the same down to a T. Same with NFL, NBA equipment, balls jerseys etc. So demanding a different paint job is nothing more than being butt hurt you can't show off. The industry doesnt support this cry.
I would love to see this with Ian putting some fitting magic in the stock shaft...What would the stock shaft play like if it was tipped a bit and built for someone?
By the way - The TM stock (non-Velocore), as well as the made-for Tour Edge Exotics Ventus shafts are of decent quality, and they work well for many average golfers, as long as you get the correct version of those made-for shafts ... AND DON’T PLAY THEM AT THE CRAZY-LONG 45.5” TO 45.75” LENGTHS THAT THE OEMS BUILD THEIR DRIVERS TO WITH THOSE SHAFTS! For a slower-swinging non-aggressive tempo golfer who can control the driver and hit the ball on or near the sweet spot, the OEM Ventus shafts have shown some very good results with golfers that I have fitted. However, if you put a hard-swinging, aggressive tempo golfer in a driver with the non-Velocore Ventus shaft, you can get some distastrous results.
I'd love to see Ronnie do this test (with the appropriate flex), to see what differences a slower swing speed and, dare I say (no offense Ronnie), a less consistent strike may make. Would the benefits of the after-market shaft be as pronounced as they were for Matt?
I could see it going both ways. Either Matt’s speed will accentuate the difference in shafts, or the the better shaft can make it more consistent for the inconsistent golfer.
I’ve noticed a lot of live questions about Ping tour shafts. Can you get your hands on a 70 x flex for Matt to compare to his old gamer in g410 LST. Just wondering cause I got one the way.
This video just inspired my $758 driver purchase from TM, I hope you guys earn a commission LOL! Really though, you should. Purchased the Sim 9 degree with Ventus Black 6x W/ VeloCore. Thanks for all of the amazing videos! You guys are the ONLY youtube I actually 'rang' the bell for haha.
There is definitely a difference. To the causal golfer, the shaft upcharge will not be worth it. I was recently fit for the SIM Max and didn’t even hit one shot with the stock shaft. I was fit into the LA Golf shaft which is an investment to say the least. It was almost the same cost as the club head. However, the stability of the shaft matched with the twist face technology eliminated the right side of the fairway and straightened my ball flight as well as lowered my spin to an impressive level. This end of the market is not for everyone. I play in am tournaments and need something I can rely on to manage my misses so the investment is justifiable to me. If the goal is to have fun only with your buddies, save the cash.
As ever Guys, thanks for a brilliant, informative and inciteful vid. I really don't understand how TM get away with this, in any other industry "passing off" is an offence. But in the golf industry, it's accepted practice! PS Can I please ask that the next time you are launching TXG merchandise that you do it quietly. MrsBandit was passing through when Matty was holding the white stand Bag up to the camera and I got the (buy that and I'm wearing your goolies as Earrings) look.!!!!!! PPS But if any TXG member wants to gift me one as a Birthday Present, I might just keep my danglers 😜
The car analogy is interesting in terms of swing speed. At what swing speed does this have an impact? For a slower swing speed is there less difference/benefit? Be an interesting one to look at. Very interesting 👍🏻
Question? If talking about MOI in shafts and dropping how does a heavier weighted shaft impact this in fairway and driver shafts? On the extreme side if the driver shaft is 90g and the fairway shaft is 100g. Fx2.0 380 m5 or the a tour limited 90.
I think unless you play at a tour level its fine to get upgrade. For us weekend players stock will be perfect. No need to have all the bling if you only hit it 240 and shoot over 90.
Go back and look at your testing of Ventus red, blue, and black. Same results you had today. Ian even commented that you were wearing the middle out. I remember it vividly because I want that Ventus Blue.
I got my self m5 in lock down at great price with a atmos black shaft. I have cobra f9 with a atmos ts black which I fitted for. The shafts are night and day.
for the same price i can get a tensei av blue 65 stiff or i can get a ventus non velo core shaft? which one should i get someone plz help or hzrdus smoke blue?
I bought an after market driver shaft because of your review ( VA Vylyn 55 gram stiff ) and it was the best money ever spent on golf stuff for me by me. There are a few people that have spent more money on golf toys than me, just a few. But the after market shaft I bought was oh so worth it. Good video guys, you two are keeping me going during the Global pandemic with stuff to watch.
I'm seriously looking at the Fujikura Ventus Black Velcore shaft but no club fitters around here have it to test. Will it generally lower the spin rate?? Club head speed is in the 105 range and concerned it's too much shaft for my club head speed..... Any advice would be very helpful. Currently playing the stock Ventus Blue 6s stiff and spin rate is around 4000
Some of the Spin Axis Tilts (27.8 Degrees R) with the Stock Shaft were appalling. This stuff is really hitting home with me, combined with your episode on reshafting Matt's old Callaway Driver and making it significantly better, is that the Shaft on a Driver Head is just way, way more important that I think people understand and want to believe - and might even be more important than the head in many aspects because curvature is such a huge issue to get in control with a Driver and between making Matt's old uncontrollable Callaway into a hittable driver and now this, a $700 Canadian Driver with a stock Shaft that can be that out of control just cements this idea permanently now in my mind. I also think your recent X100 fitting (a 30 year old shaft) also shows this to be again 100% true.
X100 is still played by a TON of tour players. Doesn't matter how old it is. Their timing is built around it & they don't want to change. I wouldn't either.
I have had both versions, the Velocore Ventus is so much better.. Stable, forgiving and low launch. You guys forgot to mention the paint has a bit of a different colour.
torque isn't the metric to worry about, the effect of torque tends to be misunderstood and exaggerated a lot of the time. For example look at a very stiff stable shaft like the Accra RPG, with torque rating of 3.9
Was fitted for Ventus 6S aftermarket version with SIM max driver...flat out best driver ever hit. Never been huge fan of TMag drivers. Big shoutout to Victory Custom golf @ Lake Wylie SC
There's absolutely no doubt in my mind that aftermarket shafts are far superior and can totally transform a golf club. If you're prepared to pay the extra cash you won't be disappointed. Enjoyed the vid, great work as always guys!⛳🏌️👍🏼
I just got fitted for a Taylormade SIM Max with a Ventus Red shaft (stock). Seems to really suit my swing really well. Interesting to see you swing this combo so well, Matt. I had been thinking during your driver bracket that I was surprised SIM went down in the first round.
I play the Ventus Blue (after market) R2 flex. Even with my slower swing speed I believe the tech is working for me. I was a believer after a couple of swings. Great investment for me.
I have been waiting soooo long to see someone do this test and you boys went and filmed it and smashed it. Awesome awesome awesome 👏👏
Fully agree Tommie, all of the manufacturers of clubs put in their marketing how they are offering premium grade Shafts then you see the TXG and wonder, why do they???? Good work guys this is why we watch your show :)
Especially from one who has a beautiful swing to start, and from what I witnessed not far off on the lines on the screen.
I put a Ventus Blue Velocore into a G410LST and it’s the most accurate and longest driver ever. I did not miss a fwy on my last round and as the round progressed I just swung harder as my confidence grew. This shaft is unreal. No duck hooks in last 2 rounds where 2 per was the norm. Duck hooks are my bad miss which just ruins a round. The Velocore was put into play because of the great numbers from your previous tests. Thanks guys and after watching this video no more stock shafts. This Velocore Blue that is currently in play won’t be leaving the bag for quite some time.
You guy are killing it on the videos right. Love the information you guys are giving rn. It’s awesome
Is it even a txg video if Ian doesn’t start with a clap😅
👏🏻
@@ianfrasergolf Is this the first video where the progress bar shows the various segments within the video? Looks great, super helpful !
I really don't like companies that do this with their stock shafts, the Atmos range does it right in my opinion by completely changing the graphics. But rants over lol great video guys
Tried the Velocore version. Not a fan. Rigid and very stiff in the tip. Requires a higher end swing speed to load the shaft. For us mortals...stick switch the stock version and save yourself $175.
Same quality as always guys. Honest and open. So good. Thanks
I got the oem Ventus on ebay, thinking it was the aftermarket, but I'm glad the difference is not so big. Will try it over the weekend, I am replacing a Fujikura Pro73.
SIM really has to be one of the best sounding drivers ever made.
Love the informative content. If theres one thing I would like to see different, is to always have the "tester" hit the driver without knowing which shaft is which. Eliminate placebo effect variable.
They did this before with iron shafts. Matt still could guess pretty closely which was which but as for a club as long as a driver, it’s gonna be pretty easy to tell which is which. The aftermarket shafts are so much more stable. You can tell just from waggling them
Such a relevant topic. Thanks for revisiting this guys!
This proves what we've all expected. It's not center strikes, it's increasing the consistency of strikes on the face! With a small sample Matty proved that he would have cost himself a few strokes with the stock version. For a serious golfer who plays 50 rounds/yr on avg, it's 700 drives or so, of which a probably 50-75 drives would have worse outcomes in the year. Amortized across the few years you'll own the club (unless you're a Golfwrx member 😁) that's a small per driver premium. As Ian said, it WILL be reflected in your score
I think the most important statement was “is it even the same shaft”. I think they should not name aftermarket and stock shafts the same,it’s misleading to the consumer. Put a different paint job and call it something else cause that’s what it is. If you took the profile of both shafts without the name you never say they are both the same venture. Good explanation and video as usual!
They don't put a different paint job on ANY sporting goods. The fake NFL and NBA balls are IDENTICAL to the authentic ones. Same with Samba and Kangaroo Sambas. Same with Jerseys. Stop with this nonsense. You can buy a cheap synthetic leather MLB baseball for $3 and its IDENTICAL to the $30 authentic. Down to the letter. Industry standard.
@@MrAhuraMazda just because it's done with other merchandise doesn't mean it's right. Also why would you want a lower quality product having the same name and look as your premium product.
MrAhuraMazda187 I think you can have an alternative opinion without patronising someone by telling them to grow up. It’s a reasonable frustration to have, particularly when you’re looking at $850 AUD (or whatever it costs in other parts of the world). TM are clearly cashing in on the hype of the Ventus and for any uninformed person purchasing from a big box store, they’re not getting what they think they are. The comparison re baseballs isn’t really apt because they’re not marginally close in cost. The oem Ventus might be perfectly fine, but people should be properly informed. Btw I understand Titleist offer real deal shafts.
@@markwilliams21 your frustrations are unfounded and most certainly not reasonable. Literally, EVERY product in the sporting goods world does this. Every one. An authentic NFL ball isnt even sold on the market. The ones the pros play isnt even sold. The "authentic" is $135 and IDENTICAL to the $25 synthetic leather one. So stop crying about an industry standard. Youre obviously mad you can show off your expensive shaft cause it looks the same. Then its not for you. These shafts are for people who demand that level performance. Not show offs. And buyers arent "tricked." The aftermarket shafts are for buyers who know exactly what they want.
@@DanielRodrigues-hn8cx to establish a brand identity. Thats why the ENTIRE sporting good world does it. There are minor visual differences btw. They just look similar. And thats done in EVERY facet of sporting goods. Theres like 5 tiers of jerseys you can buy at escalating prices and they all looks 90% the same. Same as these shafts
Great video. I had apparently not seen it.
Sold my "older" hybrid to my mate who needed it more than I.
I excitedly bought a hybrid with the Ventus blue so how wrong can it go. ... grabbed it, paid and took off. yeah ...
It was a stiff shaft but felt a wee soft and the ball landed within the distance I wanted but leaked left and right.
Thought it was because was not used to the club. Then I saw something about the velcor and it struck me ... . D A.
So club head is great. Shaft is not what I thought.
And today ... this video popped up and laughed in my face ... when I saw the first drives from Iron Byron.
A great disappointment.
And even more a disappointment because I have watched TXG and instead of hitting a few balls ... I grabbed it and took off.
would spine alignment help the club flex and return more tightly into the same place each time, of have shafts moved on since those days
Any update on Dave peltz green reading thing he mentioned on the podcast? I know he said look for it end of May but I haven't seen anything.
Very interesting video seeing the contrast between two shafts that are the “same”, but clearly not the same. Just goes to show even more importance on making sure your clubs are built to the tolerances of the ones you got fit into.
Whats the basic difference in stiffness between velicore and stock in the same designation i.e. stiff vs stiff. Half a flex ? Or is it so different that profiles are worlds apart.
This is why you’re the best channel on TH-cam. This is the stuff we actually want to see. Thank you so much. I gotta come to Canada and meet y’all.
Its b.s. that fujikura names it the same as an aftermarket shaft that is much more expensive. It is b.s. on taylormades behalf also.
I've been playing with my Ventus Red with Velocore for 6 rounds. It's made a difference over my evenflow. Longer and straighter.
Uh-oh... May need to revisit the bracket after that performance!
I would love to intern or work for you! 10+ years of video production experience and 20 years of playing golf. Too bad immigrating to Canada is difficult. Although Toronto is one of the best cities I have ever visited, I don't think it's in the cards UNLESS it was just post. Is this happening? I think this is happening. #DreamJob :) Keep it up!
I saw the title of the video and instantly clicked like! MyGolfSpy was just talking about how confusing so thank you guys for doing this video!!!
250 bucks thats only going to get me 3 more yards not worth it!!!
Sooo question, thoughts on say older version of premium shafts vs stock shafts? Say like Fujikura speeder evo 2 vs stock shafts of today ? Have stock shafts surpassed these older premium/exotic shafts ? Anyway thanks for the top quality content as always!
Kind of frustrating. You pay $540 with tax for a driver only to feel like it is second rate.
You can find these aftermarket shafts for 2-300 on Facebook groups. Sell your stock shaft for 50-100 and you’re good to go
ryan g You're paying for the head more than anything
Alex Rankin I don’t think that is true. I think your paying for the timing. When I buy a driver 2-3 years later price is super low. You’re not paying for the head, you are paying for the timing and marketing.
How is this any different from any other OEM stock shaft offering for the past 15 years?
Ya buy driver heads from two years ago with better shafts. Can’t go wrong
By far the most deep diving channel I am following. Love the content boys, keep it coming!
Chris fit me into Ventus Blue with my F9 last year and you can feel toe strikes that end up in the fairway due to the quality of the shaft...wasn't sure a shaft could be high MOI but I've seen it play out exactly that way
I'd like to see you repeat this perhaps 30 times, using different participants and also blind testing (i.e. remove psychological bias where they don't know which shaft they are using). At that point you might start to have some reliable data
“It’s not the same shaft”
PREACH
You guys are talking about a 700+ dollar and I’m thinking I should get this, also me swings at 105 and only has a 275 dollar budget
And if that’s the case honestly the non velocity very is a good choice. Just perhaps takes the steps we talked about to tighten up the shaft.
Ventus Blue in a 60 maybe the better choice
I'm so glad you guys went and did this. I've been telling players - ever since the whole Stock vs aftermarket versions started being made that there were differences. we even saw them most times in the fitting, but players didn't listen because manufacturers continued to say that "there was no difference" just to impress the OEMs. Finally they're onboard with it. Aftermarket is just a better investment in performance.
They were way to close for me to pay 200 or 300 more, not worth it in my book.
But does the $300 upgrade result in lower scores? If not, What's the point?
@@joey5picks depends. Some get a big difference between the two and some dont, but there are differeces for some players. If the lower cost option works the best for you, go with it! That's more golf!
Playing a TM SIM Max 10.5* with Ventus Red S stock shaft. Bought it at 44”, so its frequency analysis is 275, so just about “X” flex for that length. I like the length, being 65, long arm reach, and grew up playing shorter shafts....last club fitting I did showed 44” gave me 4-5 mph more ball speed than the standard.....44.5” is about as long as I have swung the driver and had consistent ball strikes & control. Question, in an effort to get a little more peak height & carry distance, am I better off putting a 1/2” plug in this existing shaft, or buying a Ventus Red Velocore at 44.5”? Would a 60R vs 50S help at all? Clubhead speed is 92-95mph.
Much anticipated video here! I play with some golfers who believe their stock Ventus has the velocore. They need to watch this. That center strike deviation is the ticket! This exact thing happened to me in a fit when I went to a high end shaft fit for me. Key words “fit for me”, not just grabbed off the shelf
Great video as ever gents, I did this test myself earlier this year and had the same findings. Curiously i also found the cpm of the non velocore shaft was higher than the velocore shaft in the same flex almost as if they made the standard version stiffer to attempt to mimic the velocore materials. That was comparing a blue 6s velocore to a 6s standard. The standard was good but the velocore was just plain awesome and for me a real game changer. Thanks
Thx- I got fit ( hit about 25 shafts ) the Velcro Black - S was good margin best for ball speed etc . I put on a Taylor Made M5. Longest , straightest . Was told hand made ! I looked at 3- wood TM with stock ( blue ) g
Great video guys... unfortunately the SIM family in Asia is sold with a "Exclusively for" Tensei Blue, at 50 grams... I wonder if a similar comparison between the Stock Tensei vs Aftermarket Tensei would yield similar results like the Ventus?
Mistubishi is better about keeping it clear. The 50g only comes one way. The Tensei Pro series is analogous to the Fuji velocore version of Ventus. It's laid out clearly on their website.
For the first time in a long time the Ventus shaft is perfect for measuring stock vs aftermarket, this vid and the F1 Vs driving to dinner analogy is perfecto, love it lads
I like how Matty is so consistent that they have to tell us shots were consecutive 😂😂👍
At what clubhead speed would this begin to make a significant difference? Would someone who swings 95-100 mph notice the same difference or would there be less deflection?
Another great one! I really like how you described considering the value, specifically mentioning the view over ~5years. I think that is an important point for customers to consider when making a purchase.
This place is the best WITHOUT A DOUBT to gain real knowledge on golf equipment on TH-cam. Heck the web. Keep up the great work gentlemen.
Awesome video! What do you guys think about the stock Callaway shafts? Riptide and Aldila Rogus 130MSI...
Impressive display of highlighting the differences and what to look for between OEM shaft and aftermarket. The consistency and dispersion of aftermarket shaft in Matt’s hands were impressive. Well done TXG.
Matty hammered those!!! Put it in the bag! Did Matty's swing change? Looks like he got the club alittle more horizontal at the top of his backswing than in some previous videos I watched. Great info guys..... thanks!!!!
I play the f9 with blue atmos shaft..I feel like its behind me and have to swing it easy. Would you swap it for the hazardous smoke 6.0 my speed is around 112 mph thanks gaz
I would go get fit to make sure the shaft profile matches your swing. On paper I would say go 6.5 on the hzrdus.
With that speed, I would say make sure you try the Smoke 70g version and not the Smoke 60g.
I got fit for the F9, I was only 2mph faster and the Smoke 6.5 was perfect for me, was tight between that and the Atmos Black TS 7X
With matts swing speed it’s too Whippy but for some1 with 95-100mph speed I’d see no difference 🏌🏻♀️
Any chance you could do a video on shaft spine angles and how it effects performance? Seen a few videos regarding it but you guys are the professionals. Also is it something you do before building someone their set? Obviously most OEMs don't do it when bulk making sets so would it make much of a difference to the amateur golfer if they weren't properly aligned?
I’m assuming from this analysis that if I go from a stock Ventus 5r to a Velocore 5r, I’ll probably need to adjust my loft up a bit to keep them roughly the same.
Great information as usual fellas. The Velocore model is a different shaft all together. Different specs for sure but it was interesting how Matty noticed the actual diameter of the shaft and taper was different. Other than paint colour and the manufacturer being the same - two different shafts. Thanks again for the excellent sharing of knowledge and results!
Got mine today 🤗
Same paint jobs are the industry standard in sporting goods across the board. You can buy a synthetic leather MLB baseball for $3 that is IDENTICAL to the $35 authentic one and it is the same down to a T. Same with NFL, NBA equipment, balls jerseys etc. So demanding a different paint job is nothing more than being butt hurt you can't show off. The industry doesnt support this cry.
I don't think it's worth the $400+ cost.
I would love to see this with Ian putting some fitting magic in the stock shaft...What would the stock shaft play like if it was tipped a bit and built for someone?
By the way - The TM stock (non-Velocore), as well as the made-for Tour Edge Exotics Ventus shafts are of decent quality, and they work well for many average golfers, as long as you get the correct version of those made-for shafts ... AND DON’T PLAY THEM AT THE CRAZY-LONG 45.5” TO 45.75” LENGTHS THAT THE OEMS BUILD THEIR DRIVERS TO WITH THOSE SHAFTS! For a slower-swinging non-aggressive tempo golfer who can control the driver and hit the ball on or near the sweet spot, the OEM Ventus shafts have shown some very good results with golfers that I have fitted. However, if you put a hard-swinging, aggressive tempo golfer in a driver with the non-Velocore Ventus shaft, you can get some distastrous results.
Your previous words " it's a timing device " .. absolutely spot on.. great example as ever. Great vid guys xx
I am getting good results with the stock TM version ventus blue shaft. Will I like the velocore version?
Please test the Aldila Rogue White MSI 130!!! And try to use a mortal.
I would like to see this as well. Also is the Aldila white considered after market or stock?
Is the ATMOS Blue or Black tour spec shaft that comes with Cobra F9 an after market shaft or is it a made for shaft ?
Good question I would also like to know that
I'd love to see Ronnie do this test (with the appropriate flex), to see what differences a slower swing speed and, dare I say (no offense Ronnie), a less consistent strike may make. Would the benefits of the after-market shaft be as pronounced as they were for Matt?
I could see it going both ways. Either Matt’s speed will accentuate the difference in shafts, or the the better shaft can make it more consistent for the inconsistent golfer.
I got the aftermarket version a yr ago and paired it with my epic flash. Love it and hit 70% fairways at 260 -270 yrds.
Can you please show a comparison of the PING G410 Plus with stock Alta CB shaft versus PING aftermarket ones ?
I’ve noticed a lot of live questions about Ping tour shafts. Can you get your hands on a 70 x flex for Matt to compare to his old gamer in g410 LST. Just wondering cause I got one the way.
This video just inspired my $758 driver purchase from TM, I hope you guys earn a commission LOL! Really though, you should. Purchased the Sim 9 degree with Ventus Black 6x W/ VeloCore. Thanks for all of the amazing videos! You guys are the ONLY youtube I actually 'rang' the bell for haha.
There is definitely a difference. To the causal golfer, the shaft upcharge will not be worth it. I was recently fit for the SIM Max and didn’t even hit one shot with the stock shaft. I was fit into the LA Golf shaft which is an investment to say the least. It was almost the same cost as the club head. However, the stability of the shaft matched with the twist face technology eliminated the right side of the fairway and straightened my ball flight as well as lowered my spin to an impressive level. This end of the market is not for everyone. I play in am tournaments and need something I can rely on to manage my misses so the investment is justifiable to me. If the goal is to have fun only with your buddies, save the cash.
As ever Guys, thanks for a brilliant, informative and inciteful vid.
I really don't understand how TM get away with this, in any other industry "passing off" is an offence. But in the golf industry, it's accepted practice!
PS Can I please ask that the next time you are launching TXG merchandise that you do it quietly. MrsBandit was passing through when Matty was holding the white stand Bag up to the camera and I got the (buy that and I'm wearing your goolies as Earrings) look.!!!!!!
PPS But if any TXG member wants to gift me one as a Birthday Present, I might just keep my danglers 😜
The car analogy is interesting in terms of swing speed. At what swing speed does this have an impact? For a slower swing speed is there less difference/benefit? Be an interesting one to look at. Very interesting 👍🏻
Question? If talking about MOI in shafts and dropping how does a heavier weighted shaft impact this in fairway and driver shafts? On the extreme side if the driver shaft is 90g and the fairway shaft is 100g. Fx2.0 380 m5 or the a tour limited 90.
I think unless you play at a tour level its fine to get upgrade. For us weekend players stock will be perfect. No need to have all the bling if you only hit it 240 and shoot over 90.
Wondering if you can test a shaft that has been flo checked vs a shaft that has not been flo checked
Were those Ventus Black's or Blue's? 6X 7X??
Blue, 6X
Go back and look at your testing of Ventus red, blue, and black. Same results you had today. Ian even commented that you were wearing the middle out. I remember it vividly because I want that Ventus Blue.
Well done boys! This may be your most viewed video ever
What if you Pured the stock shaft and test it against an aftermarket shaft
Been waiting for this one. Thanks boys!! Keep it on the short grass playas!
i just bought the 6x blue....after seeing this im wondering if too stiff. i tried the 6s black and it felt a bit weak when i went after it.. 108-114ss
jergernice1 did you answer your one question ? I’m wondering same thing. I believe we have around the same swing speed is why I ask
Eric Mez so blue even in x felt loose. And left. The black s or x better for me...
I think for most golfers that go once a week, and are mid-high handicaper would not notice much difference
I got my self m5 in lock down at great price with a atmos black shaft. I have cobra f9 with a atmos ts black which I fitted for. The shafts are night and day.
for the same price i can get a tensei av blue 65 stiff or i can get a ventus non velo core shaft? which one should i get someone plz help or hzrdus smoke blue?
How much more would it cost TM to put the real deal in there and put out a better stock driver? Probably not much and they would sell more.
I bought an after market driver shaft because of your review ( VA Vylyn 55 gram stiff ) and it was the best money ever spent on golf stuff for me by me. There are a few people that have spent more money on golf toys than me, just a few. But the after market shaft I bought was oh so worth it. Good video guys, you two are keeping me going during the Global pandemic with stuff to watch.
I'm seriously looking at the Fujikura Ventus Black Velcore shaft but no club fitters around here have it to test. Will it generally lower the spin rate?? Club head speed is in the 105 range and concerned it's too much shaft for my club head speed..... Any advice would be very helpful. Currently playing the stock Ventus Blue 6s stiff and spin rate is around 4000
Would love to see you and Mark Crossfield have a conversation on this Topic.
Oh wise ones Matt and Ian, please teach me the ways of the driver. The fairway seems to be a destination I can not reach without your help.😂
Some of the Spin Axis Tilts (27.8 Degrees R) with the Stock Shaft were appalling. This stuff is really hitting home with me, combined with your episode on reshafting Matt's old Callaway Driver and making it significantly better, is that the Shaft on a Driver Head is just way, way more important that I think people understand and want to believe - and might even be more important than the head in many aspects because curvature is such a huge issue to get in control with a Driver and between making Matt's old uncontrollable Callaway into a hittable driver and now this, a $700 Canadian Driver with a stock Shaft that can be that out of control just cements this idea permanently now in my mind. I also think your recent X100 fitting (a 30 year old shaft) also shows this to be again 100% true.
X100 is still played by a TON of tour players. Doesn't matter how old it is. Their timing is built around it & they don't want to change. I wouldn't either.
I have had both versions, the Velocore Ventus is so much better.. Stable, forgiving and low launch.
You guys forgot to mention the paint has a bit of a different colour.
It’s not really noticeable so we left it out. #50shadesofblue
@@ianfrasergolf What flex were the shafts? Matty is a good fit for 7X? But I think the stock Ventus doesn't come in that?
both were 6X
You guys will have twice as many subscribers by the end of the year. Best golf channel on yt consistently
Surely lower torque in the expensive version explains the tigher control? What's the actual torque delta between the two?
torque isn't the metric to worry about, the effect of torque tends to be misunderstood and exaggerated a lot of the time. For example look at a very stiff stable shaft like the Accra RPG, with torque rating of 3.9
That is a very interesting video. I wonder if the contrast will be as big for a slower swing speed.
Was fitted for Ventus 6S aftermarket version with SIM max driver...flat out best driver ever hit. Never been huge fan of TMag drivers.
Big shoutout to Victory Custom golf @ Lake Wylie SC
may I ask what your club head speed is? I play the red 5s and not sure if blue 6s would fit better?
@@thomasrigert At time when fitted swing speed was 108 to 110mph
Would love to see a video on your opinion of puring shafts or finding the spine of the shaft and if it is necessary or beneficial
Great video as always. Been waiting for this one Matty put it in the bag! Thanks gentlemen
There's absolutely no doubt in my mind that aftermarket shafts are far superior and can totally transform a golf club. If you're prepared to pay the extra cash you won't be disappointed. Enjoyed the vid, great work as always guys!⛳🏌️👍🏼
Yeah. Hard to tel the wife I spent $800+ on a new driver....😬
Love the ventus stock shaft I have in everything
I just got fitted for a Taylormade SIM Max with a Ventus Red shaft (stock). Seems to really suit my swing really well.
Interesting to see you swing this combo so well, Matt. I had been thinking during your driver bracket that I was surprised SIM went down in the first round.
Sims a great driver.
Was the stock shaft retail length and the after market a touch shorter?
I play the Ventus Blue (after market) R2 flex. Even with my slower swing speed I believe the tech is working for me. I was a believer after a couple of swings. Great investment for me.
what is your driver swing speed, if i may ask?
@@ljigga mid 80s.
Really good contents. I have to say this to Mat when I see the way he hit the driver: I hate you !!!
;)
You guys post A+ golf equipment videos. Love the content and Matt is a beast.
Thank you for sharing. I ordered a TM Sim with Ventus Blue stiff with Velacore over a week ago. It should arrive Thursday. Can't wait!
how much it cost you?