Piano Accordionist Learns Chromatic
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 9 ก.ค. 2024
- Roxys Palmer-Hughes TH-cam Channel: / @roxypalmer-hughes4285
Chromatic Article: nydana.se/accordiontest.pdf
Recommended Chromatic Button Accordion Method Book: "Méthode D'Accordéon Débutants" by Manu Maugain.
If you are interested in learning more about Roland button accordions, you can find more information at www.roxys.com/roland-accordions/
Are you a piano accordionist and wonder if it is difficult for you to learn to play the chromatic button version of the instrument? In this video I answer two questions, "How did I convert from piano accordion to chromatic button accordion?", and "Was it difficult or easy?". - เพลง
In this video, as well as the "Chromatic Myths & Tips" series in this channel, Leon at Roxy's has provide the best advice I have ever seen for anyone contemplating learning the chromatic button accordion. In particular, he has made it very clear that it is not a 5 row instrument as most people think, but rather it is a 3 row instrument with some models having either 1 or 2 extra duplicate rows. Personally, I think those who begin by playing on all 5 rows, figuring out their own fingering by trial and error (mostly error), are making a serious mistake. I often wonder why they do it since every method book that I have seen introduces the instrument on 3 rows. I agree with Leon at Roxy's, the Manu Maugain and Palmer-Hughes books are the best way to learn the chromatic.
I greatly appreciate the fact that you don't waste my time in your videos. You speak very deliberately (even slowly) - and that's fine - but no word is wasted. I get very frustrated watching other people's vids which are 20 minutes long with 4 minutes of useful content. Thank you!
Thank You, Leon! I went from a two row diatonic (play harmonica) bought a student Piano accordion, and bought a Chromatic C-griff last June-and hit a wall. Oh, I could pick out the C-scale, but nothing made sense -until TODAY! Your videos explained lucidly and succinctly the similarities and differences in systems. I have a three row CGF Diatonic-which I thought would help, but now I know why. Again thanks for your presentations. And yes a Roland may be in my future! I live on the Island, you are not that far away!
Nice job.. I always wondered how those things were configured.. Makes sense.. Thanks for the video...
Glad I found your channel. Ben playing the PA for years on and off. Seriously considering the CBA. Thanks for your videos.
Nice presentation!
I went from piano to b-griff. It took me about 15 minutes and I was playing some of the tunes I knew from the PA on the B-griff box. In about a week, almost all of them had been "translated". That was on a 3 row b-griff box. Now I'm moving on to a 5 row box (basically the outer two rows are duplicated on the inner two rows). Makes certain passages much easier by adding the flexibility to play notes in a different position. Love it.
+splortz
Congratulations on your transition and thanks for reporting how easy it was. You did it faster than I did.
Leon
I expected it to be more difficult. I think it's got something to do with focusing on intervals over "notes".
Love you presentations - very understandable and useful
Thanks. I'm happy to help out. Leon
Thank you for the encouragement.
i play the accordion since i was 10 years old.I converted from piano-accordion to the chromatic at age 30 (that was in 1995) now i am 55...i wasn't sure at first what system should i follow between C griff and B griff...after many experimentation with both i found that Cgriff is closer to the mentality of the piano system...for someone who wants to convert from piano to buttons i would suggest the Cgriff system....However if i was a totally begginer on accordion i would probably had chosen the Bgriff system
The Maugein book is somewhat confusing for beginners.
1.The doh-re-me system (in lieu of C-G) which is prevalent in France is not used elsewhere
2. The illustrations show a Bass buttonboard with "French Sradella" (3 Bass Rows, no Dim row). Largely unknown outside France
3. Most C System CBAs have 5 Row Treble
At Roxy's we solidly stand behind our advice in this video to use the Manu Maugain book together with the famous Palmer-Hughes piano accordion course. In our opinion the Maugain book contains the best series of progressive practice exercises with very good fingering advice to allow anyone to learn the chromatic keyboard from the ground up, slowly expanding their tonal range, as one should learn any musical instrument. The Palmer-Hughes series (main course, prep course, and recital books) provides more than enough progressive practice repertoire to encourage a beginner to master what Manu Maugain presents on the chromatic keyboard. It's the same practice repertoire (originated by Dr Bill Palmer) that Alfred uses in their famous piano method books, which are by far the most popular for the reason that history has shown them to be the most effective. Working with the practice repertoire in Palmer-Hughes removes all confusion over the Solfege (doh-re-me as you call it) of the Maugain book. Besides, knowledge of Solfege is valuable background for any musician. As far as most CBAs having 5 rows, all good method books advise complete mastery of the bottom 3 rows before ever using the 4th and 5th rows. In short, no beginner or intermediate level student (including myself) should be playing on the 4th or 5th rows. One should first master the bottom 3, which of course is the basic instrument. The 4th and 5th rows are just duplicates that facilitate certain fingerings in certain situations. In any progressive education there is a time and place for everything. Finally, we see no conflict with the French Stradella and regular Stradella systems at the beginner and intermediate levels. Besides, the Palmer-Hughes accordion course that is part of our recommendation provides all the information and training anyone would want on the regular Stradella system consisting of two rows of bass notes and 4 rows of chords, including the "dim" row. Hence, we continue to solidly stand behind our advice to use the Manu Maugain and Palmer-Hughes books for learning the C-Griff chromatic button accordion. Of course there are other method books, although you did not recommend one. For example, there is the Richard Galliano book, as well as others. By the way, the Galliano book also recommends mastery of the first 3 rows for the beginner and intermediate level students. And there are some people who prefer to use no book at all. They simply learn the location of the notes from a chart and then proceed on their own by playing music from various song books, figuring out the fingering by trial and error as they go along, without any professional guidance. However, our experience is that few people succeed using that learning strategy. In the end, we at Roxy's prefer the Manu Maugain book, mostly because of its many progressive fingering exercises. Our experience is that combined with the Palmer-Hughes piano accordion course, for most of our customers the Manu Maugain represents the best path to learning the C-Griff chromatic button system.
Mike O'Regan. I'll have you know that I was a beginning accordionist, I followed Leon's at Roxy's advice in learning the CBA, and it has worked out beautifully. Despite you being an accomplished CBA and piano accordion player, your comment shows lack of knowledge of how an average person might learn the instrument. It goes to show, the best players are often the worst teachers. You even spelled Maugain's name wrong. It's Maugain, not Maugein, LOL. Maugein is a line of instruments, Maugain is the person who wrote the CBA method method book that Roxy's recommends. And most importantly, as explicitly stated in this video, I also used the Palmer-Hughes piano accordion course. The Maugain book was my source of information on fingering technique for the treble side chromatic keyboard, Palmer-Hughes was my practice material where I spent the majority of my time developing my playing skill. And yes, that is where I also developed skill on the Stradella bass, as Roxy's recommends. Actually I'm surprised that Roxy's officially replied to your criticisms. It shows their good nature and honest desire to help all accordionists. I would have simply deleted your comment. It's rather disrespectful in my opinion. What do you think this channel is? A blog like your "rolandv-accordions" where you can espouse your outdated opinions? It's a music store, and what appears here is part of their business. Would you do the same at Sud Claviers in France? Or, "The Accordion Shop" in your UK? It might have been appropriate if your comment had been a real contribution, but as Roxy's reply shows, it was not.
It's interesting how this comment went unnoticed for a month, and then suddenly a lot of people are trading the link saying, "Oh, look what Mike O'Regan posted at Roxy's." Thank you Brian for the link. That's what happens when you're the moderator of an online forum like "rolandv-accordions". Eventually people notice your activity at other sites. Personally Mike, I'd take the comment down. It doesn't put you in a good light. You cite the French Stradella system as one of the Maugain Book's difficulties, but Roxy's never recommended that people play that. This video mentions Maugain for the treble side chromatic keyboard, but it doesn't even address the bass issue. If, like you, people want to learn the usual Stradella system with 2 note rows and 4 chord rows, then the Palmer-Hughes course that Roxy's does recommend provides all the training they need, and fine training it is. So obviously Roxy's has addressed your complaint before you even posted it. But did you ever consider that despite you being correct that the French Stradella system is not the most popular internationally, that there may be people who would like to use it? Hopefully some kind person will notice this thread and post some of the advantages of the French Stradella bass system. And of course, other people might want to play a free bass system in one of its many forms. This video doesn't address any of that. Anyway Mike, the bottom line is you obviously did what most people at "rolandv-accordions" do, you prematurely and impulsively shot from the hip without taking the time to reflect on whether or not what you were saying had anything to do with the video presentation. I agree with Michael Cast, such comments from you are inappropriate in the official channel of a music store, a music store that is not even in your own country for that matter. Have you no principles? It would be different if you had purchased an instrument from them and were enquiring about the best way to learn to play it. In that case your comment would be a legitimate request for product support. And chances are you'd get an immediate phone call from Leon himself to help you consider your various options. But you didn't purchase from Roxy's, and you already know how to play CBA. So what the heck are you doing here, besides causing trouble and making a bad name for yourself.
Which would you recommend for a newbie? I’m not a pianist.
did you have the metod book for Csystem chromatic or B. ?thanks
can anyone tell me which exact model this accordian is?
You've just answered most of the questions I've had for years about the button accordion in a few minutes. Thanks. I do have one more question....are 3 or 4 note (right hand) chords more difficult on the button models? Although I do see some players forming chords, most seem to play single notes, but maybe that's because of the European style of music that is more consistent with the button models.
Although I don't often use chords on the treble side, in my opinion, chords on the chromatic are easy to play. One advantage (if you take advantage of all five rows) is you can play similar types of chords using the exact same fingering. So, for example, all Major chords use the same fingering. Of course, if you play on the bottom three rows exclusively, as some people do, then the fingering is different for each chord, exactly as on the piano keyboard. A second advantage is that you can easily play chords stretching over two octaves.
Leon
RoxysMusicStore I know this comes 11 months late, but just a clarification. Using the bottom three rows the chord and scale fingering is different for each row, but it is the same for each of the four different keys within that row. Therefore one only has to learn three different fingerings, not twelve as on the piano keyboard.
MrTrashcan1 Thanks. I decided to stay with the familiar piano keyboard with an option for free bass. The FR8X will keep me busy for years and now I'm on a quest to find the fingering sequences for a C griff bass layout. There's not much info available but it's on my projects list for sure.
One of my questions, which you answered, was whether you can go back and forth between the piano and chromatic accordions.
Some people have a knack for learning different locations of notes and hence are adaptable to playing different versions of an instrument. One example is Michael Bridge. Most of his videos on TH-cam show him playing a chromatic, which I believe is his primary instrument. Yet a few show him playing the piano version, and he is very good at it, as in the following:
th-cam.com/video/8rClgZSg0KA/w-d-xo.html
When you think about it, it's not such a big deal. Both instruments are the same in every other respect. The bottom line is, an accordion is an accordion. And of course there also exists the diatonic accordion, which again has notes in different locations. Yet again, some people are able to play both diatonic and piano models.
Thanks for your helpful answer. I’ll just dedicate time to each method then. I ordered the Maugin books and Palmer Hughes.
Hi Leon, thanks to this video I have bought a Roland button accordion almost a year ago. Previously I had stop playing my father’s piano accordion due to its weight and size. I use all the digits of my right hand when playing it. However, I’ve noticed some players do not use the thumb at all. Why is this? What do you consider is best practise?
Can't get to your website.
What's the difference between the FR-1xB and the FR-2B? The 2B is what's listed on your website.
You can look at Roland's website for very detailed descriptions and specifications. You can purchase either at Roxy's. The FR-2B is a special deal because that model is now discontinued. It will save you a lot. But the FR-1xb has more recent features, like USB memory support. It also comes with a free instructional DVD. Why don't you call Rose at the store? 585-343-7222 To talk to me, ask Rose and she'll give you my number.
I was playing piano accordeon for years,now a try to play the button(Bgriff)it is difficult to learn but you can play much and much faster)an oktaaf is 9cm)
and evrye chord is the same figur
So if you went a master of the accordeon ,you need to play the button(The best accordeonplayer ever ever was Jhonny Meijer he play the button accordeon(B griff)
If it were not for Roland , I wonder if accordion would soon be forgotten in USA.
It is amazing how complex hand built accordions sell for pennies on Ebay.
I agree with you. Were it not for Roland, the accordion as an instrument may have sunk deeper into obscurity. That's why we feel it important that people take full advantage of the V-Accordion's orchestral variety in their performances. The more the general public sees and hears what a modern accordion can do, the better the chances of attracting new players.
Hi there I have bought a Roland Fr3-X recently. I do have your DVDs. The Roland BK7_M is not available. Can I use any other drum machine. Do you sell backing tracks.
First let me say that I noticed two comments from you. Sorry, but I accidentally deleted your other comment. I didn't intend to. I did it accidentally. I remember that it said you have Roxy's FR-3x Getting Started DVDs. That's great. Yes, you can use any MIDI drum machine or external arranger with your FR-3x. What you can do and how you do it depends on which you purchase, as well as which model. There are many to choose from. Such products can enhance your own performances as well as allow you to create your own backing tracks. As an example, I made the following video to show how backing tracks can be done using the BK-7m:
th-cam.com/video/m1-C9uivS_E/w-d-xo.html
You can also use multi track recording systems, such as Pro Tools, Ableton, or Reaper to create backing tracks. Indeed, you can include a track containing your FR-3x, thus producing accordion duet performances. I don't know of anyone in the accordion community making backing tracks for purchase. You might look around for songbooks in the keyboard community that provide backing tracks. I recommend that you search in Google for "Backing Tracks". Still, since the backing track is part of your performance, and since you are a musician, it makes sense that you should make your own backing tracks.
For someone interested to get into playing the instrument, which one of the two versions would you advise choosing?
If you are wondering about either "piano" or "chromatic", I personally prefer chromatic. If you are wondering about which chromatic system, C-Griff or B-Griff, my preference is C-Griff because of the availability of method books, like the Manu Maugain book that I show in the video. Best of luck.
@@RoxysMusicStore thank you sir
I am a diatonic player, thinking about to switch to a cba once in a while. Does it make a difference from a diatonic player‘s point of view, if I choose C griff or B griff? or is any of the griff systems more suitable or familiar to diatonic players?
Honestly it's going to be pretty different either way so I don't think it really matters
hi , the entire series is excellent, but there is one area where the choice to be made gets difficult. to Play the v accordion you need it to be connected to a power source and how long does the battery last? portability is there but will every place we play have a power source?
In today's world, AC power is usually available. Still, for strolling and for when no AC power is available, a fully charged set of batteries will get you through most gigs. It helps to have an extra charged set on hand.
They say it last around 8 hours. I don't know if that is full volume or not.
If you must use batteries, we recommend high quality ones, as well as a smart charger that allows you to select charge rate, like a La Cross charger. Charging at 500 milliAmperes will give you most charge as well as longest battery life.
Hi, do you recommend a chromatic accordion to someone with big fingers, I'm currently playing a piano accordion with full size keys, thanks
I also have big fingers and prefer full size keys on a piano accordion. The spacing between adjacent buttons along one row on the treble side of my FR-4xb (chromatic version) are exactly the same as the width of keys on my FR-4x (piano version). Also consider this. The treble side buttons on the chromatic are larger and slightly wider spaced than the bass side buttons. So, if your fingers are able to play the bass side of a piano accordion, they are able to play the treble side of a chromatic accordion. Still, because the notes on a chromatic are distributed over three rows, the octaves occupy less horizontal distance. At first this will cause you to feel more cramped than when playing a piano. However, it did not take me long to view this as an advantage. Intervals are easier to play because the notes are closer in horizontal distance. I can press the same note in three octaves simultaneously. No one can do that on a piano.
RoxysMusicStore
Hi, I currently own a German Weltmeister 32 bass, 26 key accordion and I was leaning towards switching to a Diatonic Hohner Panther, do you think the layout is too small for big fingers? The layout has three rows of buttons? I don't know if I should buy the GCF or FBbEb model, I want something that sounds similar to my Weltmeister,
Best Regards,
Thank You
Sorry. I have no experience with diatonic accordions. As I explain in my videos about the chromatic, the diatonic not only had different note locations, each note works in only one direction of the bellows. Hence the playing technique is completely different from a chromatic. I'm not saying that the diatonic is a bad instrument. I just don't have any experience with it and cannot give advice. Many people do play the diatonic. I recommend visiting an accordion store and trying one out.
As a German speaker, I always assumed that "C-Griff" and "B-Griff" would naturally be called "c-grip" and "b-grip" in English, since it's such a non-sophisticated word. Funny to hear "griff" in English.
Hi Where’s your shop located? Do you sale the chromatic button accordion? Do you have an email address or phone number that I could contact you? Thank you.
What beginner books to you recommend that are in English?
As we state in the video, the Palmer-Hughes Accordion Course in combination with the Manu Maugain.
it seems the Palmer-Hughes books are for piano Accordions. What if I want to play the button accordion?
Listen to what I say in the video. Yes, the Maugain books are written in French. But the Maugain books have diagrams that will teach you where the notes are located on the chromatic accordion with no translation required. A diagram is a diagram. It requires no translation. The Maugain books also have fingering exercises that will teach you how to play different ranges of notes most efficiently on the chromatic accordion. Again no translation required. Maugain also contains music practice pieces for you to play. Again, no translation is required. The Palmer-Hughes book will give you the main body of practice music that will make you an accomplished accordionist. These are practice pieces that have been proven over many years to be most effective in teaching anyone to play any instrument. They will teach you to play music. Music is music. So you see, once you learn the location of a few notes and how to finger them from Maugain, you are ready to play some music using those same notes from Palmer-Hughes, and from a lot of different books as well. Follow that strategy and you will successfully learn to play the chromatic accordion. The greatest lesson that I can teach you is that it doesn't matter that the Palmer-Hughes book says "piano accordion". Indeed, get that foolish idea out of your head. Let's be practical here. Any music that is written for a piano accordion can be played on a chromatic accordion. In fact, it usually can be played more easily on the chromatic accordion than on the piano accordion, as you will eventually realize. The bottom line is, an accordion is an accordion and music is music. All the music that is in the Palmer-Hughes books can be played on a chromatic accordion, and if you practice all the fingering exercises and music in the Maugain books as well as all the music examples in the Palmer-Hughes books, you will become an expert accordionist. If you wait around for a special book that is written in English for the chromatic accordion, you will probably never learn to play the chromatic accordion. The few books written in English for the chromatic that do exist are of very poor quality. They are written by people who are poor music teachers. The best books for learning the chromatic accordion are the Maugain books in combination with the Palmer-Hughes books. That combination of books has worked very well for a great number of people. I wish you success with it.
To prove to yourself that the Palmer-Hughes books are excellent for learning to play the chromatic accordion, take a look at the following TH-cam channel. You will see all the practice pieces from Book #1 of Palmer-Hughes played on both the piano accordion and the chromatic accordion. Every piece can be played just as easily on either instrument.
th-cam.com/channels/WtzjbTJO_z0PxzaZjuxDTw.htmlvideos
What more proof do you need? Follow Leon's advice and you will succeed.
Perfect! Thanks.
For people with smaller hands or shorter fingers, the chromatic is better choice, i guess
You are correct.
Is it true, that you can cover with one hand much more notes, than on a piano keyboard?
Yes it is true. On the chromatic button accordion you fingers can easily stretch across two octaves.
Fala muito
Looks far, far better than piano accordion.
I'm pretty used to it. I'm not a very advanced musician. I'm more a technician. But I have to admit, the chromatic has served me well.
I WANT TO PLAY, AND PLAY IN THE FINNISH STYLE!.... SO, I TAKE IT THAT YOU RECOMMEND THE ROLAND ACCORDION?!.... [IS IT ALSO A "MIDI" INSTRUMENT?!....]
Of course it's a MIDI accordion. It's electronic. All electronic accordions are based on MIDI. Download the owner's manual of any model of Roland V-Accordion at Roland's website and see for yourself. They all provide a MIDI receptacle.
All Roland chromatic button V-Accordions are configurable to any chromatic system, French, Russian, or Finnish. Indeed, they even provide variations of each.
This must be somebodys grandpa!
The piano accordion is also chromatic... I don't understand why you say "chromatic" for "button", piano is also chromatic (even think there are diatonic panio too)
"chromatic" referes to the chromatic arrangement of the Keys (do-re-mi-fa-sol-la-si-do)
I agree that it seems silly to a pianist or piano accordionist that we use the term "Chromatic Button Accordion". Of course, you are correct. The piano is fully chromatic as well, and yet we never say "Chromatic Piano Accordion". Ha ha. But there is a reason why we say "Chromatic Button Accordion", and it is historic. You see, if we were to say simply "Button Accordion", people would think we are talking about a "Diatonic Button Accordion", which is a very popular instrument, which is often referred to simply as a "Button Accordion", but which is a completely different instrument. So to make sure people know what we are talking about, we say "Chromatic Button Accordion". It is not meant to imply that the piano accordion is not chromatic. It is because the very popular diatonic button accordion, which is popularly referred to as a "Button Accordion" is NOT chromatic. How else could we make sure people really know what we are talking about?