If a honorbound stat will get added to the game, this theory would even make more sense. Like when he doesn't score a kill with it, the nature gods punish him for not committing to being a bear and so on.
I think it's impressive that there's an ENTIRE WEAPON SET that we can consider bad. Not even Pyro's grordbort set can manage that, since the Phlog is at least "good".
the brass beast is a sorely underrated piece of kit for defense. however i have no fucking clue why it's paired with the steak and warriors spirit. they all have terrible synergy with eachother
That Pyro set has: -Phlogistinator -Manmelter, helps the damn Phlog charge immensely if it can crit and deals with the "no airblast" shit. -Third Degree, a straight upgrade from the Fire Axe. Like, this set is REALLY not bad at all.
@@SyRose901 The "Third Degree" has a hidden downside: When equipped, the Pyro will experience a 35% reduction in peripheral vision upon seeing a medic healing someone. This further increases to a 70% reduction if the Pyro chooses to engage.
@@SyRose901 The Third Degree is only a straight upgrade in an _extremely_ niche situation that Pyro really shouldn't be using his melee in, anyways; if you're in breathing room of a combo, you should probably be bathing them in flames or airblasting them apart to help your team take them down, not taking out what is essentially a stock reskin with a gimmick stat. Not to mention pretty much _every_ Pyro melee but the Volcano Fragment and Hot Hand has a far more useful upside, anyways; why would I want a stock reskin with a gimmick that's hard to use well...when I can just use the Axtinguisher, Powerjack, Back Scratcher, Neon Annihilator or Homewrecker, weapons with very useful gimmicks that provide genuine upsides for the Pyro or his team in various capacities? If I'm attacking, I'm using the Powerjack for the mobility buff, the Back Scratcher for the extra damage and bonus healing from health kits, or the Axtinguisher for the combo with my flamethrowers. If I'm defending, then obviously I'm gonna use the Homewrecker to help my Engineers deal with Spies trying to sap their buildings. If I'm on a map with loads of water, then the Neon Annihilator is pretty useful for taking advantage of enemies coming out of that water and gives me a nice damage option if I'm using a flare gun. The Third Degree's upside of "hits both parts of a Medic beam" comes up short in comparison, especially since...well, if you're breathing up the neck of a Medic to take advantage of that, you're probably right around his team, who will generally not take kindly to you waltzing up to their Medic. In that situation, you'd be better off spraying as many people as you can before dying to soften the enemy up for a push. And the Manmelter is _severely_ outclassed as a Phlog secondary by the Scorch Shot, which builds Mmph even faster with much less effort on the Pyro's end; that's kinda the reason Phlog-Scorch Shot is one of the most reviled combos in TF2. If you constantly have crits, the lack of airblast isn't as problematic since you'll probably melt whatever doesn't kill you first.
Back then, the WS had a -20 hp instead of a 30% damage vulnerability, you were weaker if you played Heavy normally, but stronger if you decided to melee people, since -20 hp is far less punishing than a 30% damage vulnerability.
@@uberd3323 That's what I love about TF2. The "bad" weapons are still fun to use in niche ways. I can't punch people and fingergun them to death as Santa in COD or Overwatch.
The brass beast also doesn't work well with these weapons either since a bb heavy wants a reliable backup secondary like the shotgun or failing that the fists of steel to let heavy fall back more easily. The buffalo steak and warriors spirit are probably the worst weapons to pair with the brass beast which makes the entire hibernating bear set so badly thought out.
6:01 The fact that there are three people in this clip alone who dominated you prior is probably more of an indicator of how much warrior's spirit+steak sandvich erases the heavy's survivability than saying such through words could ever give.
It is really strange that the health recovered from the Warrior's Spirit is outclassed by small health kits. You know, those things that Scouts can drop for free by having the Candy Cane equipped. EDIT: Because no-one seems to know how to read things, I'm making an addendum here. This _isn't_ about the Candy Cane. It really doesn't matter whether it's good, bad, situational, or whatever. The point was Heavy recovers 60 HP from small health kits, on a weapon that gives you a damage vulnerability and 50 HP from kills. The healing you get from taking an enemy down with these things is 10 HP short of the worst healing option available on any given map, which is both sad and funny.
I misread this the first time lol. Yeah this part kinda sucks, and the scout doesn’t even need to use the melee and is super hard to hit with much less vulnerability. (Still deadly to the scout is they meet and explosive.)
candy cane has two subclasses for scout. ScoutKnight, and Discount Medic. i've made the scoutknight comment a lot so i'll let you find that on other melee related videos. the Discount Medic is scout that runs up to injured teammates and killbinds dropping a healthpack.
I definitely think that a lunge attack for the Warrior's Spirit could really help the weapon since one of the problems with Melee Heavy is that you're too slow to approch and hit anyone. That, or an idea I had a few years ago would be to double the effects of lunchbox items where the Sandvich gives you overheal, Dalokohs Bar gives you 200 health plus 100 extra health and the Buffalo Steak Sandvich gives you crits instead of mini-crits while probably having the downside of either less health from outside sources (e.g. Medics, Health Packs) or honorbounding you like the Half-Zatoichi.
Youd probably need to double make the honorbound damage like 80 to make it work, since the normal 50 isnt nearly as significant for heavy as it is for soldier and demo
Honourbound is a great idea, for the same percentage of course (-25%) so 75 health. This would even provide another use for it too, as another way for heavy to boost uber charge speeds that isnt the Fists of steel. The buffalo steak needs a ranged damage reduction instead of more vulnerability to all damage, as well a duration increase on melee kill
@@Buster_real That would be fuckin dope. It'd probably have a FoS-style damage reduction for most sources, with a downside of it being basically just "You exist to be shot at, and that's it." MAYBE a charge-type alt-fire to make it able to have an active use aside from being made into a super-punching-bag.
I think what could help it is if the BSS vulnerability didn't stack with it. That way with the warriors spirit it's only downside would be the melee lock, since it already has a vulnerability penalty. It's already part of the same set, so some synergy would make sense.
it used to not stack, at least not as bad. In the distant past, the Warrior's Spirit downside was that it removed 50 MAX HP, but the heal effect was I think 15 per hit rather than 50 per kill. So you had better survivability overall due to the damage vuln not stacking, and you have better short term survivability even if you don't get the kill. It still wasn't good, but it wasn't absolutely awful like it is now.
vulnerability on the warriors spirit is a fair downside, but on the steak its fucking stupid. the whole point of giving heavy a melee subclass is to have a *tanky* warrior who uses their high health pool to *tank* damage while they close the distance. so why does the steak have a damage vulnerability effect when its already hard enough for heavy to catch up to his targets? not healing and being locked to melee is a downside enough. the warriors spirit could use like, a 5% damage buff and/or a 5% vulnerability buff, just to meet those damage thresholds. that would take it a significant step up. or rather, maybe also make the health on kill like 100 so it isn't pathetically small.
Tbh even without a downside it would still be a bad weapon, any melee weapon that doesn't offer an instant close range kill with a near 100% reliability is inferior when you have a minigun that has near instant kill at close range and some range, if the melee traded out the medium distance in exchange for not having a windup time, which would be fair
But the irony was, the WS also had a -20 HP penalty back then. That meant that you’d likely still die from a critical sniper rifle headshot due to having less health. It rarely affected gameplay at all!
“It’s a perfectly serviceable sidegrade to the stock fists.” If I was the warriors spirit that would hurt more then just saying I’m one of the worst weapons in the game.
The holiday punch is actually useful for a lot more than just being a meme for hoovies. They're unironically kind of broken because of their stun mechanic, which even works on ubers. You may note that isn't much different from gen-1 sandman beyond the worse range and (sometimes) no damage.
I mean, sure, it can stop ubers, but for that to work you have to be lucky and get a random crit in *melee* range of a medic and his ubered mann, or, you have to sneak up behind them, while playing the slowest and largest class in the game, while no one spots you.
(Edit: yooo, he noticed me) I really miss timestamps, so I made them: 0:00 Merch 0:26 Intro 2:01 Stats breakdown 4:12 Melee damage thresholds 5:45 Damage vulnerability 6:24 With the Buffalo Steak 7:27 Vs other Heavy melees 8:03 Mannpower 10:38 Normal Heavy gameplay 11:46 When the Warrior Spirit is worth using 13:09 Medieval Mode 14:30 MvM 16:12 Conclusion and potential rebalances 18:40 Outro
@@aleflippy1997 It doesn't drain fast enough to be a problem in most melee fights, which usually end in less than three seconds. Either you land two hits to kill (or a crit), or you're dead anyway. The GRU makes you fast enough to feasibly avoid attacks though, or run away if you decide it isn't worth it. Also the health comes back just as fast the moment you find a safe spot to switch back to your minigun or sandwich.
I’m so glad you covered this weapon! I run Brass Beast, Buffalo Steak, and Warrior’s Spirit at all times on heavy. It makes his rollout or sneak attacks amazing, and in open combat the brass beast just shreds people. Do I die, all the time? Yes. Is it super fun to annihilate people? Also yes.
the way i would tweak the hibernating bear set BB: make the damage resistance non conditional BSS:flip the vulnerablility into a resistance WS:same as the BSS, and make it switch in 2x slower NOW YOU HAVE A SET THAT AT LEAST SOMEWHAT MAKES SENSE TO USE TOGETHER AND A MAIN THEME THROUGHOUT THE WEAPONS SLOW TO START UP BUT DAMN NEAR IMPOSSIBLE TO STOP AFTERWARDS
If non-conditional means always active, then it would be broken, because if someone is attacking a brass beast heavy while the heavy isn't currently holding it, they won't know why 20% of their damage just got stuffed up.
@@-RandomStranger- actually it would only be about 470 when i said the BB's damage resist should be "non conditional" i meant that it would be active no matter what, *so long as the weapon is out* , not just a passive 20% damage reduction at all times
I'm certain that when they made the stats for it, the thought process was "He does 30% more damage, so it's only fair he TAKES 30% more damage. Throw the 50 HP boost on for lols" without actually thinking of how heavy plays.
Idea for a rebalance: every kill adds a whip speed boost like the KGB and for the same duration, will buff the entire hibernating bear set, also let it stack
Letting it stack will be a little insane, because with the Steak you can turn into a soldier (50% damage vulnerability gives you 200 effective health) who runs around the same speed as a demoman and maybe even faster if you get lucky, and deals 100 damage per swing
It would be interesting for you to quickly cover major patch changes when talking about design choices. The weapon was totally fine until the Tough Break update which made it unusable. December 17, 2015 Patch (Tough Break Update) Changed attributes: Now heals 50 health on kill. (from +10 health on hit) Damage received and dealt increased by 30%. Removed health penalty. (-20 health)
I still don't get the mentality behind the idea of giving the slowest class in the game a melee alternative that makes them more vulnerable to damage while giving them the smallest speed boost when demoman was given an infinitely more mobile alternative and damage output so much so that a heavy with the best possible melee option dueling a demoknight can still easily lose.
Demoknigt struggles with heavys, unless they have the fos or something. You are looking at 3 hits with the skullcutter if you guarantee the first hit is a crit.
I like the buff ideas of the custom server. Honor bound makes a lot more sense with a steak that won’t let you unequip it. The weaknesses compliment each other instead of exaggerate each other.
This has nothing to do with the video, I just found it funny that at 12:26 he forgot what team he was on for half a second and tried to walk in the blu spawn
The only change I'd make to the warrior's spirit would be to turn the 30% general damage vulnerability to a 30% bullet damage vulnerability, it would still be outclassed by other melees most of the time, but it would still certainly be usable. It would also have the effect of making it become a sort of opposite to the fists of steel.
I once had a dream where the Warrior’s Spirit was buffed so the health on kill applied to all weapons. No idea how broken that would be, but it definitely feels like something Valve would do
After playing some MVM with modded upgrades, I thought of some stats that would make The Warrior's Spirit an absolutely wacky Heavy melee choice. Those stats are: +25% Faster move speed on wearer (this is passive, not just when the weapon is out), +40% Greater jump height on wearer, +50% Knockback resistance (Heavy already has pretty high knockback resistance built-in, but with the added knockback resistance, airblast, and Direct Hit rockets won't push him around as much). This would come at a cost of halving The Heavy's minigun ammo to 100 (and maybe halving shotgun ammo to 16, maybe), and dropping The Heavy's base health to 200, and The Heavy would receive 50-75% less ammo from ammo boxes and dispensers, making the choice of pulling out the minigun much more important regarding timing. These stats would sort of let The Heavy tap into the more animalistic side of the weapon, with higher jumps and faster movement and more damage (assuming keeping the 30% damage bonus after all this is a remotely good idea), and would be a pretty interesting melee weapon for Fat Scout, while making the reduced minigun ammo more difficult to sustain in situations where you have to commit to using it, as well as the greatly reduced health, lowering Heavy's maximum overheal and sustainability, making him sort of a glass cannon, but the passive faster move speed and jump height does make things more interesting when roaming the map for flanks, or when getting into position. Still not the best at coming up with balance changes, so, I could once again be talking nonsense.
I just thought of an interesting rework for the Warrior Spirit. What if they removed one of its bonuses to instead make it grant melee resistance whilst equipped (whilst making the current vulnerability only apply to non-melee damage), effectively making it the reverse of the Fists of Steel?
@@CyrogenicNation I was mostly saying replace a bonus simply because it may be OP in medieval mode. Personally, I don't care about Medieval mode much, but I know some people do.
@@DrBlueHigh To be fair, you probably shouldn't be running at people with Heavy melee to begin with. If anything, it'd help for if someone jumps you with their own melee (mind you, the Minigun would likely still be a better option).
Ideas that come to mind for the Steak: remove the hidden stat for damage vulnerability. You got no gun. That's a hard nerf. Ideas for the Spirit: Why not just reduce the swing speed? Make it so the Spirit is more consistent than KGB but less burst damage.
Idea for lunging attack seems enticing, although i would place something like "if you miss your lunge, THEN the vulnerability applies." So at least spirit now allows you to whip out your BEAR ARMS without instantly regretting it.
can't remove damage vulnerability because it makes it too strong to use in a gamemode that has a different style of gameplay than the mode that the majority plays
My thoughts about how to buff heavy melee’s in general would be to give ‘em a sort of knock out ability. Warrior’s spirit would temporarily be able to flip it’s vulnerability to resistance.
The thing about the Eviction Notice is that you can actually travel further with it than with the GRU and at less max health lost, so while it's worse than the GRU at escaping situations or retreating (especially if you're already low-health with either melee), it's so much better as a general mobility tool. On top of that, it letting you approach enemies fast-ish but with more health than the GRU means you can do similar things to the Powerjack where you can rush in, close the distance and then abuse it with a Shotgun; the Panic Attack is very noticeable in this case with its higher threshold-breaking damage at close range and much quicker switch speed. IMO, the GRU is Heavy's Escape Plan while the Eviction Notice is his Powerjack.
Once I was in a game where there was a warrior spirit heavy, he kept appearing out of nowhere in the most obscure places and owning all the scout somehow
I'd say something to consider is to give it health on damage instead of health on kill (about a health per two damage), remove the damage vulnerability, and have the heavy marked for death while eating the steak (the steaks horrible downsides gone as well to counteract that). Sacrifice health during downtime in exchange for health in the fight, Blackbox style (other problems including covering the distance needed to attack fleeing enemies be altered if need be).
You know heal on hit and no vulnerability is basically just it pre nerf. It healed on hit and reduced max by 20. (Not in the snarky way, just like, they really borked it.)
I love how I got the Warrior’s Spirit the same day this video comes out because I was playing Medieval Mode. I managed to go on a decent killstreak before Huntsman Snipers killed me
16:56 Fish... bears don't pounce on things, they chase them down, pouncing is a cat thing... I 100% agree with the Honor Bound mechanic, fits with the theme perfectly
Usually corners, indoors, and approaching Pyros tend to be the easiest to beat. Then again, so did the stock Fists on Harvest, and I earned top score. Heavy on Melee has to be one on one, and done quickly before more rush in. I can see Melee Heavy as a reverse Demoknight, where instead of offensive, he's defensive and has to wait for enemies to approach him.
Equalizer: Let's give Soldier a weapon that gets stronger the closer he is to death. It'll be crap, but he'll have one, maybe two ways to use it in a pub-y kind of way. It'll have a taunt kill at least too. A good one, AOE. Warrior's Spirit: Let's give the slowest class with no real good ways to engage anyone in melee a melee weapon that makes all ranged options deal 30% more damage to them. And a secondary item that takes away his healing for mini-crits, but makes him take even MORE damage, and a small speed boost that might help him hit someone once before taking a point blank shotgun to the face. That makes sense. Oh and even with the Mini-Crits, still take two shots to drop any class short of a Kunai/Earner spy. THAT MAKES SENSE FOR REMOVING ALL GOOD OPTIONS OFF HEAVY.
Maybe a good buff to balance the warriors spirit could be to turn into a melee version of the panic attack, keep the stats but maybe half time to switch to the item, keeping the other stats or maybe making it take longer to switch from which would make it a potentially cool combo with the brass beast to compensate for slow ramp up. Maybe even do something like the spy and instead of the quicker switch time, make it so the heavy gets a small speed boost after each kill for a short time, though it might be a bit broken then with the health combo, so then add a 10% slower normal speed. Alternatively could just be a rebalance for the eviction however honestly heavy melee feels like a wasted opportunity for a lot of good ideas
I think the claws and the steak are supposed to partially neutralize his main strength, his health pool, in order to boost his speed and melee in order to shake up his main playstyle. The problem is that standard melee is basically useless for every class with a plural number of eyes.
my idea to change it would be to change its damage vulnerability from 30% to 15% and replace it's health on kill with a 50% health steal, then change the buffalo steak's 20% damage vulnerability to a 20% resistance and boost its movement speed buff to 50%.
I'm a Heavy main and i disagree. Warrior's Spirit isn't even that bad - you can just run up to enemy while holding primary or secondary and only whip out your melee when you're very close to cancel damage vulnerability debuff, +25% dmg is quite useful for finishing off wounded enemies, +50 health is also pretty good because it is the only melee to give Heavy any amount of healing. Heavy weapons that i genuinely consider "bad": Eviction Notice, Stock Fists and that's all. Everything else has its own uses
How about instead of the lunge costing health it just slows you if you don't hit an enemy. And if you do it gives you a speed boost. A little bit of skill testing and it really only increases heavy's mobility when he's doing dumb memey shit so it shouldnt impact competitive. I think it'd also be neat if the lunge reset on kill
The comp players only get angry at speed boosts for heavy when it makes him go to frontlines faster, but since your idea requires heavy to beat the ever living sht out of someone then yeah it has potential
Here's an idea: Fix all Heavy melees damage-wise. All of them. He can already shred you at close range, who cares? I say make it tied to the gimmick of punching left or right. The hands now have the same base stats as the bat, but the right hand as an extra .3 second delay on its attack, which is visible in its animation-effectively giving it the normal .8 second interval and deals normal damage. Each fist has a separate attack interval, letting you chain left and right punches together. The right fist is easier to see coming and dodge, it's 18 frames for you fighting game folk, plus not only will Heavy make a little audio cue when he's about to punch with right, but if you got hit by a left punch, you can react to the pain sound and dodge the right punch. That being said, both hitting is devastating. This means it only takes a little over half a second for a heavy to kill light classes with melee if he uses a left-right-left. At max melee range (48 hu), the minigun still kills a lot faster (.315 seconds), but the fists now do kill faster at that range than the shotgun. You'll be able to throw out 4 punches in .8 seconds, dealing 165 damage, killing Medics in the same time it would take a normal melee to kill a light class. In one second, you'll throw out 5, dealing 235 damage. This is half the damage than the minigun can do at that range, and at this point hitting them all is less reliable. Still, the damage is a 58 difference to two shotgun blasts at this rate. This massively buffs all melees, to the point where the KGB might need more of a nerf. The Warrior's Spirit at this rate kills a light class in just over .3 seconds, about matching the damage of the minigun. It kills Demos and Pyros in .5 seconds, slower now than the minigun, but still a lot quicker than any other melee. How this would affect every melee would have to be tested, but it wpuld let Heavy do something with melee and make the Warrior's Spirit a decent weapon.
Melee Heavy has always been mystifying to me. If you are in melee range with any enemy SHOOT THEM WITH THE MINIGUN. Heavy melee options need to do something special to even have a point. GRU are a good example of this concept, but a melee option that does a some more damage?? The Minigun does a lot more damage! A lot more damage than, like, everything.
Is it just me, or did anyone else think Fish did his a video on this before now? I guess the Warrior's Spirit was so bad I thought its video had already been made
After using the warrior spirit, I feel like the downside doesn't exist if you play shotgun heavy. The warrior spirit does about the amount of damage a meat shot does with the shotgun which gives you flexibility with your shotgun aim when gunning someone down. Now it may seem hard to get into melee range as the heavy, but if Uncle Dane has me anything, melee range is the most disorienting spot for the heavy to deal with, so having someone come to your melee range is much more common than you'd expect. But if the enemy avoids coming into melee range, congrats, they are staying in the effective range of your other weapons. I feel as the warrior spirit is best in koth maps as I believe it is a great skirmishing and flank weapon as you often find yourself not needing the utility of heavy's other melees as the map does require much mobility or utility to begin with. In competitive, soldiers use the market gardener to deal damage while saving rockets, so you should treat the warrior's spirit the same way. As shotgun heavy, every shot in the clip counts and having a way to do the same amount of damage without wasting a shell is great allowing you to be more flexible with your aim after you've managed to get your melee hit in.
I really like the idea of the lunge, and I know exactly how to implement it! In Dead by Daylight, every killer can perform a basic attack by tapping the attack button or a lunge by holding it. Lunging gives you a burst of speed as you are swinging but slows you down in the cool down after you hit.
Y'know the honor bound idea actually makes a lot of sense in perspective when looking at it from a design point of view, the bear costume and extra damage + vulnerability smells to me like Valve was thinking "berserker style" where you get the power to deal ludicrous damage in exchange for saying goodbye for self preservation, so a way that mad brawler effect could also be implemented (if you ever feel like trying it out) as a "fury/bloodlust timer" where the effects of the warrior's spirit count as without the marked for death for a short amount of time, of maybe 30 to 50 seconds, and unless you manage to kill someone within this timer you will be marked for death, but every time you kill an enemy a small bonus would be added to the timer with diminishing returns, representing the berserker frenzy wearing out, and to punish someone from just pulling them out without properly committing to the full frenzy, the mark for death would trigger instantly the moment you unequip the gloves.
An honor bound mechanic is definitely a good idea. With the increased damage your always expecting a kill when you pull these out, so failing to do so and punishing you accordingly is a good idea.
the WS had a broken base concept from the beginning my idea, as far too often I wrote in these comments, is a full on rework; a "bleed on hit" and a "minicrit on bleeding enemies" for a damage reduction from these, and the negativ eeffect unchanged (or somewhat reduced the damage vulnerability)and a reduced healing, but from every enemy that you caused bleed on on death. heavy doesn't really shine for support or status, but a bleeding enemy more often than not get surprised by the amount of damage they slowly suffer and also the removed knockback on the steack. THAT?S EXACTLY what the steack needs
One way I’d change the Warrior’s Spirit is by turning the “30% damage vulnerability” into the “Honorbound” stat the Half-Zatoichi has. I’d also buff the Buffalo Steak Sandvich to have a 20% damage resistance instead of a vulnerability as well as remove the invisible speed cap, but keep the “locked to melee” stat. That way, Heavy gets a fun subclass, the Heavy Boxer, in the same vein as something like Demoknight. Edit: Huh. I typed this before watching the video, by the way.
Here's an idea: make it so either the steak or the Warrior's Spirit grants knockback immunity. Make it so that the melee side of things is facilitated, while also providing some gimmick that works outside of just melee combat
To note, the Bear/Steak combo on the Reblanace server is genuinely threatening. Seeing a Heavy running at you with resistances with the Warrior’s Spirit will put the fear of God into you. It’s scary shit.
makes sense that the hibernating bear set only works in mvm, you’re a big grizzly man and you’re tearing down the robots who want to take over the world
tbh a Honorbound effect on the Warrior Spirit probally was the smart move. it encourages you to to utilize it without it crippling you, in instead makes sure your committing to it.
One thing I'll add is that it pairs well with the Tomislav, as it can be revv'd an unrevv'd faster (to go for melee swings), and they both fulfill the other's range problems.
Any damage vulnerability stat usually kills a weapon. There is also the problem that the melee heavy idea just suck in general. I don't consider not using your primary weapon a subclass. A subclass is something that should involve all inventroy slots. The steak having a damage vulnerability is utterly ridiculous. The only downside for eating it should be not being able to swap weapons. Not having the sandwich or banana is a big enough downside by itself. I don't know why Valve shits the bed so hard on stuff like this. Is it because heavy would be OP in competitive or something?
I like to use the warrior's spirit in my fat scout loadout, using the family business to get most of the kills or softening an enemy up so i can easily one or two shot them with the bear claws, the 50hp on kill, while not much does really benefit your survivability, and generally most people expect a fat scout to be using the KGB, so when they pull out the warriors spirit they're in for a surprise. Really fun loadout to use, even if its nowhere near as effective as the KGB.
I think the weapon need not just an number fix, but some rework: - by pressing the left and right mouse buttons together would be performed an atack that can grab the enemy and then throw him, the distance would be determined by the class weight. - you can aim the enemy into other player to damage the two, or in a wall, or in a pitch, maybe 90 or 70 maximun damage - yeeted enemies will cause a huge knockback on the target - this type of atack can have an cooldown of 5 or 3 seconds - aplying an extended reach just like demoman swords Also, an geral change: when alterning left and right buttons the swimg speed increases on all heavy melees minus the KGB, make the punchs feel like an minigun shooting, it suits the class
As someone who plays a lot of hybrid knight, I can tell you that using warrior's spirit should be a lot like using the claidheamh mor: Instead of having it pulled out and charging at people, you pull it out in a pinch to guarantee that you survive. In case of demo, he can charge out of the place, or charge in and finish a low health oponent. In case of heavy, if the enemy is close enough and is low on health, finishing them with the warrior spirits will heal you, and 50 health is nothing to scoff at, even if Heavy's total health is 300. Enemies will be expecting you to use the minigun so they'll walk as close to you as they can to mess up your tracking, so it's a good situation to slap the stupid out of their faces.
17:59 THIS IS SO SMART CUZ IT'S LIKE A BEAR NOT BEING ABLE TO HIBERNATE UNTIL IT GETS A KILL IT MAKES HEAVY INTO AN ACTUAL HIBERNATING BEAR OH MY GOOOOOOOOOOOD
Me personally, I'd give the WS a sort of snowball effect that after kill with it gives you an added 5 health on top of the 50 you already get, totaling up to 75 hp back per kill and can overheal you, allowing you to go on similar rampages like the KGB but with health instead of kritz
Balance idea -30 max health -20% deploy speed 30% damage bonus 20% slower speed swing + speed boost on each kill (not a speed increase) +faster swing speed on each kill + 70 health on kill Have it as a heavy’s version of the eyelander that snowballs enemies that gets too close to heavy but instead of movement speed it’s a swing speed
![[TF2] Bad Weapon Academy: Sun-on-a-Stick](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/2nNjL5XCdeI/mqdefault.jpg)
![[TF2] Bad Weapon Academy: Sun-on-a-Stick](/img/tr.png)
![[TF2] Bad Weapon Academy: Sandman](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/cWkZP-V2oEw/mqdefault.jpg)
![[TF2] Bad Weapon Academy: B.A.S.E. Jumper](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/F-dffuz3sRI/mqdefault.jpg)
The warrior's spirit:
Heavy ripped a bears hands off and was cursed by the nature gods for it.
Of all the bears out there, he picked the one that sucked at being a bear
Mononoke style
If a honorbound stat will get added to the game, this theory would even make more sense. Like when he doesn't score a kill with it, the nature gods punish him for not committing to being a bear and so on.
@@davidhong1934 Well a good bear might kill him
I think he literally does this in the comics lol.
I think it's impressive that there's an ENTIRE WEAPON SET that we can consider bad. Not even Pyro's grordbort set can manage that, since the Phlog is at least "good".
the brass beast is a sorely underrated piece of kit for defense. however i have no fucking clue why it's paired with the steak and warriors spirit. they all have terrible synergy with eachother
@@sweetypuss
Apparently, the set used to have 5% crit resistance
_(Source: TF2 wiki entry on "Hibernating Bear)_
That Pyro set has:
-Phlogistinator
-Manmelter, helps the damn Phlog charge immensely if it can crit and deals with the "no airblast" shit.
-Third Degree, a straight upgrade from the Fire Axe.
Like, this set is REALLY not bad at all.
@@SyRose901
The "Third Degree" has a hidden downside:
When equipped, the Pyro will experience a 35% reduction in peripheral vision upon seeing a medic healing someone. This further increases to a 70% reduction if the Pyro chooses to engage.
@@SyRose901 The Third Degree is only a straight upgrade in an _extremely_ niche situation that Pyro really shouldn't be using his melee in, anyways; if you're in breathing room of a combo, you should probably be bathing them in flames or airblasting them apart to help your team take them down, not taking out what is essentially a stock reskin with a gimmick stat.
Not to mention pretty much _every_ Pyro melee but the Volcano Fragment and Hot Hand has a far more useful upside, anyways; why would I want a stock reskin with a gimmick that's hard to use well...when I can just use the Axtinguisher, Powerjack, Back Scratcher, Neon Annihilator or Homewrecker, weapons with very useful gimmicks that provide genuine upsides for the Pyro or his team in various capacities?
If I'm attacking, I'm using the Powerjack for the mobility buff, the Back Scratcher for the extra damage and bonus healing from health kits, or the Axtinguisher for the combo with my flamethrowers. If I'm defending, then obviously I'm gonna use the Homewrecker to help my Engineers deal with Spies trying to sap their buildings. If I'm on a map with loads of water, then the Neon Annihilator is pretty useful for taking advantage of enemies coming out of that water and gives me a nice damage option if I'm using a flare gun.
The Third Degree's upside of "hits both parts of a Medic beam" comes up short in comparison, especially since...well, if you're breathing up the neck of a Medic to take advantage of that, you're probably right around his team, who will generally not take kindly to you waltzing up to their Medic. In that situation, you'd be better off spraying as many people as you can before dying to soften the enemy up for a push.
And the Manmelter is _severely_ outclassed as a Phlog secondary by the Scorch Shot, which builds Mmph even faster with much less effort on the Pyro's end; that's kinda the reason Phlog-Scorch Shot is one of the most reviled combos in TF2. If you constantly have crits, the lack of airblast isn't as problematic since you'll probably melt whatever doesn't kill you first.
It's almost comical how awful this and the Buffalo Steak are together, given that Valve literally designed them to be used together.
Back then, the WS had a -20 hp instead of a 30% damage vulnerability, you were weaker if you played Heavy normally, but stronger if you decided to melee people, since -20 hp is far less punishing than a 30% damage vulnerability.
@@vivelespatat2670 Tbh,i rather have that health penalty downside instead of this
Its pretty fun though ngl. Even if you’re not super effective, those minicrits hit for a LOT of damage.
@@uberd3323 That's what I love about TF2. The "bad" weapons are still fun to use in niche ways. I can't punch people and fingergun them to death as Santa in COD or Overwatch.
The brass beast also doesn't work well with these weapons either since a bb heavy wants a reliable backup secondary like the shotgun or failing that the fists of steel to let heavy fall back more easily. The buffalo steak and warriors spirit are probably the worst weapons to pair with the brass beast which makes the entire hibernating bear set so badly thought out.
Namedrop caught me off guard lmao, great content as always my man.
Why is no one replying?
Yo mvm banana daddy
@@JansonisDEADyeah, not sure
6:01 The fact that there are three people in this clip alone who dominated you prior is probably more of an indicator of how much warrior's spirit+steak sandvich erases the heavy's survivability than saying such through words could ever give.
Hello bright.
It is really strange that the health recovered from the Warrior's Spirit is outclassed by small health kits. You know, those things that Scouts can drop for free by having the Candy Cane equipped.
EDIT: Because no-one seems to know how to read things, I'm making an addendum here. This _isn't_ about the Candy Cane. It really doesn't matter whether it's good, bad, situational, or whatever. The point was Heavy recovers 60 HP from small health kits, on a weapon that gives you a damage vulnerability and 50 HP from kills.
The healing you get from taking an enemy down with these things is 10 HP short of the worst healing option available on any given map, which is both sad and funny.
I misread this the first time lol. Yeah this part kinda sucks, and the scout doesn’t even need to use the melee and is super hard to hit with much less vulnerability. (Still deadly to the scout is they meet and explosive.)
ok time traveler
"For free" is pretty far from objective truth, you get evaporated by explosive classes.
But yeah, its still awful.
pyros that use the powerjack: first time?
candy cane has two subclasses for scout. ScoutKnight, and Discount Medic. i've made the scoutknight comment a lot so i'll let you find that on other melee related videos. the Discount Medic is scout that runs up to injured teammates and killbinds dropping a healthpack.
I definitely think that a lunge attack for the Warrior's Spirit could really help the weapon since one of the problems with Melee Heavy is that you're too slow to approch and hit anyone.
That, or an idea I had a few years ago would be to double the effects of lunchbox items where the Sandvich gives you overheal, Dalokohs Bar gives you 200 health plus 100 extra health and the Buffalo Steak Sandvich gives you crits instead of mini-crits while probably having the downside of either less health from outside sources (e.g. Medics, Health Packs) or honorbounding you like the Half-Zatoichi.
Youd probably need to double make the honorbound damage like 80 to make it work, since the normal 50 isnt nearly as significant for heavy as it is for soldier and demo
Personally, I'd rather a riot shield item for the minigun slot that's basically just Chargin' Targe.
Honourbound is a great idea, for the same percentage of course (-25%) so 75 health. This would even provide another use for it too, as another way for heavy to boost uber charge speeds that isnt the Fists of steel. The buffalo steak needs a ranged damage reduction instead of more vulnerability to all damage, as well a duration increase on melee kill
@@Buster_real That would be fuckin dope. It'd probably have a FoS-style damage reduction for most sources, with a downside of it being basically just "You exist to be shot at, and that's it." MAYBE a charge-type alt-fire to make it able to have an active use aside from being made into a super-punching-bag.
Why not have a lunge attack on right hooks with any melee under the steak's effects?
I think what could help it is if the BSS vulnerability didn't stack with it. That way with the warriors spirit it's only downside would be the melee lock, since it already has a vulnerability penalty. It's already part of the same set, so some synergy would make sense.
it used to not stack, at least not as bad. In the distant past, the Warrior's Spirit downside was that it removed 50 MAX HP, but the heal effect was I think 15 per hit rather than 50 per kill. So you had better survivability overall due to the damage vuln not stacking, and you have better short term survivability even if you don't get the kill. It still wasn't good, but it wasn't absolutely awful like it is now.
@@__psychobilly it was 20/30 max health lost when using it.
the vulnerability shouldn't exist on it anyway
vulnerability on the warriors spirit is a fair downside, but on the steak its fucking stupid. the whole point of giving heavy a melee subclass is to have a *tanky* warrior who uses their high health pool to *tank* damage while they close the distance.
so why does the steak have a damage vulnerability effect when its already hard enough for heavy to catch up to his targets? not healing and being locked to melee is a downside enough.
the warriors spirit could use like, a 5% damage buff and/or a 5% vulnerability buff, just to meet those damage thresholds. that would take it a significant step up. or rather, maybe also make the health on kill like 100 so it isn't pathetically small.
Tbh even without a downside it would still be a bad weapon, any melee weapon that doesn't offer an instant close range kill with a near 100% reliability is inferior when you have a minigun that has near instant kill at close range and some range, if the melee traded out the medium distance in exchange for not having a windup time, which would be fair
Virgin heavy:uses warrior spirit for "extra damage"
Chad heavy:uses warrior spirit because it looks cool
Random guy heavy: uses warrior spirit for health on kill
Crackhead heavy: uses warrior spirit for damage vulnerability
@@cristinagomez3283 I think you mean
masochist heavy: uses warrior spirit for damage vulnerability
@@airplanemaniacgaming7877 yes
@@airplanemaniacgaming7877 also:
Hoarder heavy: uses warriors spirit to complete the set
Brad Heavy: Doesn't use the Warrior's Spirit
Thad Heavy: Uses the entire bear kit as a challenge
Blast from the TF2 past: Back when equipping item sets gave a separate boost, the Hibernating Bear gave +5% critical hit damage resistance.
But the irony was, the WS also had a -20 HP penalty back then. That meant that you’d likely still die from a critical sniper rifle headshot due to having less health. It rarely affected gameplay at all!
Oh,thank God! I am glad that the set where two weapons have massive damage vulnerabilities(which stack) has a tiny crit res
A 5% resistance is so tiny that it's basically fucking useless let's be honest
Pfff like that wouldve helped
Crit damage resistance? And only 5%? USELESS.
“It’s a perfectly serviceable sidegrade to the stock fists.” If I was the warriors spirit that would hurt more then just saying I’m one of the worst weapons in the game.
it's still kinda cool.
The holiday punch is actually useful for a lot more than just being a meme for hoovies. They're unironically kind of broken because of their stun mechanic, which even works on ubers. You may note that isn't much different from gen-1 sandman beyond the worse range and (sometimes) no damage.
he notes that in the video
It even works on quick-fix ubers.
It’s a weapon that conceptually could only ever really work on Heavy.
I mean, sure, it can stop ubers, but for that to work you have to be lucky and get a random crit in *melee* range of a medic and his ubered mann, or, you have to sneak up behind them, while playing the slowest and largest class in the game, while no one spots you.
@@davisdf3064 I’m aware. I was saying that the holiday punch as a concept could only ever work as a Heavy weapon.
When you die to the Warriors Spirit, you don’t deserve to be mad about it. That Heavy just outplayed you, and you can just accept.
i thought you meant as in you die as the heavy using the warriors spirit
(Edit: yooo, he noticed me) I really miss timestamps, so I made them:
0:00 Merch
0:26 Intro
2:01 Stats breakdown
4:12 Melee damage thresholds
5:45 Damage vulnerability
6:24 With the Buffalo Steak
7:27 Vs other Heavy melees
8:03 Mannpower
10:38 Normal Heavy gameplay
11:46 When the Warrior Spirit is worth using
13:09 Medieval Mode
14:30 MvM
16:12 Conclusion and potential rebalances
18:40 Outro
I think he got rid of timestamps because people said they used them to skip sponsors, which was kind of shitty of them.
@@nicholasho1595 then I will not skip the sponsor again
no there's timestamps
@@jknifgijdfui Fish added them later
19:42 double telefrag (gotta timestamp that lmao)
I feel like even the G.R.U. is more effective at melee combat than the Warrior's Spirit, damage vulnerability for a slow class is a death certificate.
How are you everywhere
yeah at least u can get closer to the other guy with the GRU. WS is just a plain downgrade
Ah yes, the weapon that drains your health at galeforce ten
@@aleflippy1997 It doesn't drain fast enough to be a problem in most melee fights, which usually end in less than three seconds. Either you land two hits to kill (or a crit), or you're dead anyway. The GRU makes you fast enough to feasibly avoid attacks though, or run away if you decide it isn't worth it. Also the health comes back just as fast the moment you find a safe spot to switch back to your minigun or sandwich.
I think Heavy may have misunderstood the 2nd amendment… or did he improve it?
He's Russian, I don't think he even knows about the American Constitution
Idk.
m.th-cam.com/video/sRGp0S7qZLw/w-d-xo.html
I'd say he improved it.
Bear arms
BEAR ARMS
B E A R. A R M S!
Reminds me of new vegas honestly
I'm happy with that "Bear is on a tear" quip, and that the Spirit is in a good place on the rebalance server.
when I first got into tf2 I thought these things were the best melee in the game, even ahead of the eyelander for some dumb reason
Brain goes Unga bunga when it sees more damage
@@bialex8083 I mean to be fair I mostly played mvm
Bruh
16:19
the 3 people dominating fsoas shows how much effort went in to this
I’m so glad you covered this weapon! I run Brass Beast, Buffalo Steak, and Warrior’s Spirit at all times on heavy. It makes his rollout or sneak attacks amazing, and in open combat the brass beast just shreds people. Do I die, all the time? Yes. Is it super fun to annihilate people? Also yes.
Not a single bear arms joke, 10/10, your perseverance is noted
Warrior's spirit gives Heavy the right to bear arms
the way i would tweak the hibernating bear set
BB: make the damage resistance non conditional
BSS:flip the vulnerablility into a resistance
WS:same as the BSS, and make it switch in 2x slower
NOW YOU HAVE A SET THAT AT LEAST SOMEWHAT MAKES SENSE TO USE TOGETHER AND A MAIN THEME THROUGHOUT THE WEAPONS
SLOW TO START UP
BUT DAMN NEAR IMPOSSIBLE TO STOP AFTERWARDS
If non-conditional means always active, then it would be broken, because if someone is attacking a brass beast heavy while the heavy isn't currently holding it, they won't know why 20% of their damage just got stuffed up.
@@zizo5349 by non conditional i mean without the health drain requirement
Oh... Well, if that's the case, then yeah, sure. =)
Pairing the BSS with the WS would give you like 600 effective health
@@-RandomStranger- actually it would only be about 470
when i said the BB's damage resist should be "non conditional" i meant that it would be active no matter what, *so long as the weapon is out* , not just a passive 20% damage reduction at all times
I'm certain that when they made the stats for it, the thought process was "He does 30% more damage, so it's only fair he TAKES 30% more damage. Throw the 50 HP boost on for lols" without actually thinking of how heavy plays.
16:17 it' hilarious how all the enemies have domination marks on them
Idea for a rebalance: every kill adds a whip speed boost like the KGB and for the same duration, will buff the entire hibernating bear set, also let it stack
Letting it stack will be a little insane, because with the Steak you can turn into a soldier (50% damage vulnerability gives you 200 effective health) who runs around the same speed as a demoman and maybe even faster if you get lucky, and deals 100 damage per swing
It would be interesting for you to quickly cover major patch changes when talking about design choices. The weapon was totally fine until the Tough Break update which made it unusable.
December 17, 2015 Patch (Tough Break Update)
Changed attributes:
Now heals 50 health on kill. (from +10 health on hit)
Damage received and dealt increased by 30%.
Removed health penalty. (-20 health)
I still don't get the mentality behind the idea of giving the slowest class in the game a melee alternative that makes them more vulnerable to damage while giving them the smallest speed boost when demoman was given an infinitely more mobile alternative and damage output so much so that a heavy with the best possible melee option dueling a demoknight can still easily lose.
Demoknigt struggles with heavys, unless they have the fos or something. You are looking at 3 hits with the skullcutter if you guarantee the first hit is a crit.
I like the buff ideas of the custom server. Honor bound makes a lot more sense with a steak that won’t let you unequip it. The weaknesses compliment each other instead of exaggerate each other.
The warrior's spirit's best situation is when fighting an enemy that doesn't fight back and takes less than half damage from your gun
At that point your basically fighting a friendly hoovy with a friendly medic pocket
This has nothing to do with the video, I just found it funny that at 12:26 he forgot what team he was on for half a second and tried to walk in the blu spawn
The only change I'd make to the warrior's spirit would be to turn the 30% general damage vulnerability to a 30% bullet damage vulnerability, it would still be outclassed by other melees most of the time, but it would still certainly be usable. It would also have the effect of making it become a sort of opposite to the fists of steel.
I once had a dream where the Warrior’s Spirit was buffed so the health on kill applied to all weapons. No idea how broken that would be, but it definitely feels like something Valve would do
After playing some MVM with modded upgrades, I thought of some stats that would make The Warrior's Spirit an absolutely wacky Heavy melee choice.
Those stats are: +25% Faster move speed on wearer (this is passive, not just when the weapon is out), +40% Greater jump height on wearer, +50% Knockback resistance (Heavy already has pretty high knockback resistance built-in, but with the added knockback resistance, airblast, and Direct Hit rockets won't push him around as much).
This would come at a cost of halving The Heavy's minigun ammo to 100 (and maybe halving shotgun ammo to 16, maybe), and dropping The Heavy's base health to 200, and The Heavy would receive 50-75% less ammo from ammo boxes and dispensers, making the choice of pulling out the minigun much more important regarding timing.
These stats would sort of let The Heavy tap into the more animalistic side of the weapon, with higher jumps and faster movement and more damage (assuming keeping the 30% damage bonus after all this is a remotely good idea), and would be a pretty interesting melee weapon for Fat Scout, while making the reduced minigun ammo more difficult to sustain in situations where you have to commit to using it, as well as the greatly reduced health, lowering Heavy's maximum overheal and sustainability, making him sort of a glass cannon, but the passive faster move speed and jump height does make things more interesting when roaming the map for flanks, or when getting into position. Still not the best at coming up with balance changes, so, I could once again be talking nonsense.
9:43 Jumping Spider? Man, the "Drop Bear" joke was right there, that was a freebie!"
I just thought of an interesting rework for the Warrior Spirit.
What if they removed one of its bonuses to instead make it grant melee resistance whilst equipped (whilst making the current vulnerability only apply to non-melee damage), effectively making it the reverse of the Fists of Steel?
Busted in Medieval
Terrible in normal gameplay. Just encourages people to shoot you more, like how the fists of steel encourages people to melee you.
Effectively changes nothing because everyone is shooting at you anyways, and a straight-up nerf if you remove one of its bonuses for that
@@CyrogenicNation I was mostly saying replace a bonus simply because it may be OP in medieval mode. Personally, I don't care about Medieval mode much, but I know some people do.
@@DrBlueHigh To be fair, you probably shouldn't be running at people with Heavy melee to begin with. If anything, it'd help for if someone jumps you with their own melee (mind you, the Minigun would likely still be a better option).
Ideas that come to mind for the Steak: remove the hidden stat for damage vulnerability. You got no gun. That's a hard nerf.
Ideas for the Spirit:
Why not just reduce the swing speed? Make it so the Spirit is more consistent than KGB but less burst damage.
Idea for lunging attack seems enticing, although i would place something like "if you miss your lunge, THEN the vulnerability applies." So at least spirit now allows you to whip out your BEAR ARMS without instantly regretting it.
@@quint3ssent1a
So for how long do you remain vulnerable?
@@TheKing-qz9wd err... Maybe for 3-4 seconds? To encourage you not to miss lunges.
@@quint3ssent1a
Sounds okay.
can't remove damage vulnerability because it makes it too strong to use in a gamemode that has a different style of gameplay than the mode that the majority plays
My thoughts about how to buff heavy melee’s in general would be to give ‘em a sort of knock out ability. Warrior’s spirit would temporarily be able to flip it’s vulnerability to resistance.
The thing about the Eviction Notice is that you can actually travel further with it than with the GRU and at less max health lost, so while it's worse than the GRU at escaping situations or retreating (especially if you're already low-health with either melee), it's so much better as a general mobility tool.
On top of that, it letting you approach enemies fast-ish but with more health than the GRU means you can do similar things to the Powerjack where you can rush in, close the distance and then abuse it with a Shotgun; the Panic Attack is very noticeable in this case with its higher threshold-breaking damage at close range and much quicker switch speed.
IMO, the GRU is Heavy's Escape Plan while the Eviction Notice is his Powerjack.
Once I was in a game where there was a warrior spirit heavy, he kept appearing out of nowhere in the most obscure places and owning all the scout somehow
8:48 The soldier's Direct Instant Rocket Ejector that Carries Teammates by Harming Irritating Turrets was called Scout-B-Gone
I'd say something to consider is to give it health on damage instead of health on kill (about a health per two damage), remove the damage vulnerability, and have the heavy marked for death while eating the steak (the steaks horrible downsides gone as well to counteract that). Sacrifice health during downtime in exchange for health in the fight, Blackbox style (other problems including covering the distance needed to attack fleeing enemies be altered if need be).
You know heal on hit and no vulnerability is basically just it pre nerf. It healed on hit and reduced max by 20. (Not in the snarky way, just like, they really borked it.)
@@The_Bird_Bird_Harder actually didn't know that. Thanks for the info! But yeah regardless that sounds way better than having to get it on kill.
16:18 I wonder why there were three players dominating him?
This weapon seriously missed an opportunity by not being named "the bear hands". Am I the only one to whom that thought occurred?
yes you are alone
Doesn't the description for the Officer's Ushanka use this exact joke?
Aah yes, bears. Known for their inability to take damage and general vulnerability. Just like nature intended.
The Terminator 2 clip was a nice touch.
I love how I got the Warrior’s Spirit the same day this video comes out because I was playing Medieval Mode. I managed to go on a decent killstreak before Huntsman Snipers killed me
16:56 Fish... bears don't pounce on things, they chase them down, pouncing is a cat thing...
I 100% agree with the Honor Bound mechanic, fits with the theme perfectly
Usually corners, indoors, and approaching Pyros tend to be the easiest to beat.
Then again, so did the stock Fists on Harvest, and I earned top score.
Heavy on Melee has to be one on one, and done quickly before more rush in.
I can see Melee Heavy as a reverse Demoknight, where instead of offensive, he's defensive and has to wait for enemies to approach him.
The lunge idea is particularly interesting, since it also helps with one of The Brass Beast's weaknesses: Getting into position.
0:01-0:04 was great. Original and wasn't expecting it.
6:22 was just hilarious. That could fit so many memes.
This episode was nice.
Warrior's Spirit is yet another one of those weapons that have a very situational use. (MEDIEVAL MODE)
Yeah but it's still pretty outclassed by the KGB.
@@evilyoshimaster Agreed. I use KGB when on medieval mode EXCLUSIVELY. Sometimes I use fists for haha funny taunt kill.
And tank busting in MVM.
Equalizer: Let's give Soldier a weapon that gets stronger the closer he is to death. It'll be crap, but he'll have one, maybe two ways to use it in a pub-y kind of way. It'll have a taunt kill at least too. A good one, AOE.
Warrior's Spirit: Let's give the slowest class with no real good ways to engage anyone in melee a melee weapon that makes all ranged options deal 30% more damage to them. And a secondary item that takes away his healing for mini-crits, but makes him take even MORE damage, and a small speed boost that might help him hit someone once before taking a point blank shotgun to the face. That makes sense. Oh and even with the Mini-Crits, still take two shots to drop any class short of a Kunai/Earner spy. THAT MAKES SENSE FOR REMOVING ALL GOOD OPTIONS OFF HEAVY.
Maybe a good buff to balance the warriors spirit could be to turn into a melee version of the panic attack, keep the stats but maybe half time to switch to the item, keeping the other stats or maybe making it take longer to switch from which would make it a potentially cool combo with the brass beast to compensate for slow ramp up.
Maybe even do something like the spy and instead of the quicker switch time, make it so the heavy gets a small speed boost after each kill for a short time, though it might be a bit broken then with the health combo, so then add a 10% slower normal speed. Alternatively could just be a rebalance for the eviction however
honestly heavy melee feels like a wasted opportunity for a lot of good ideas
I think the claws and the steak are supposed to partially neutralize his main strength, his health pool, in order to boost his speed and melee in order to shake up his main playstyle. The problem is that standard melee is basically useless for every class with a plural number of eyes.
my idea to change it would be to change its damage vulnerability from 30% to 15% and replace it's health on kill with a 50% health steal, then change the buffalo steak's 20% damage vulnerability to a 20% resistance and boost its movement speed buff to 50%.
You know your weapon is in dire straits when one of the positives is "it's alright in MANNPOWER"
I can't believe that this guy once was a promising creepypasta youtuber. Now he is a big boy TF2 enjoyer.
I'm a Heavy main and i disagree.
Warrior's Spirit isn't even that bad - you can just run up to enemy while holding primary or secondary and only whip out your melee when you're very close to cancel damage vulnerability debuff, +25% dmg is quite useful for finishing off wounded enemies, +50 health is also pretty good because it is the only melee to give Heavy any amount of healing.
Heavy weapons that i genuinely consider "bad": Eviction Notice, Stock Fists and that's all. Everything else has its own uses
Totally agree. Using the Warrior's spirit as a primary instead of a backup is probably the worst way to use it.
Also eviction notice is trash
Congrats having your start of video ad be less then 30 seconds, you're doing better then 99% of TH-cam
How about instead of the lunge costing health it just slows you if you don't hit an enemy. And if you do it gives you a speed boost. A little bit of skill testing and it really only increases heavy's mobility when he's doing dumb memey shit so it shouldnt impact competitive. I think it'd also be neat if the lunge reset on kill
The comp players only get angry at speed boosts for heavy when it makes him go to frontlines faster, but since your idea requires heavy to beat the ever living sht out of someone then yeah it has potential
Here's an idea: Fix all Heavy melees damage-wise. All of them. He can already shred you at close range, who cares?
I say make it tied to the gimmick of punching left or right. The hands now have the same base stats as the bat, but the right hand as an extra .3 second delay on its attack, which is visible in its animation-effectively giving it the normal .8 second interval and deals normal damage. Each fist has a separate attack interval, letting you chain left and right punches together. The right fist is easier to see coming and dodge, it's 18 frames for you fighting game folk, plus not only will Heavy make a little audio cue when he's about to punch with right, but if you got hit by a left punch, you can react to the pain sound and dodge the right punch. That being said, both hitting is devastating.
This means it only takes a little over half a second for a heavy to kill light classes with melee if he uses a left-right-left. At max melee range (48 hu), the minigun still kills a lot faster (.315 seconds), but the fists now do kill faster at that range than the shotgun.
You'll be able to throw out 4 punches in .8 seconds, dealing 165 damage, killing Medics in the same time it would take a normal melee to kill a light class.
In one second, you'll throw out 5, dealing 235 damage. This is half the damage than the minigun can do at that range, and at this point hitting them all is less reliable. Still, the damage is a 58 difference to two shotgun blasts at this rate.
This massively buffs all melees, to the point where the KGB might need more of a nerf. The Warrior's Spirit at this rate kills a light class in just over .3 seconds, about matching the damage of the minigun. It kills Demos and Pyros in .5 seconds, slower now than the minigun, but still a lot quicker than any other melee.
How this would affect every melee would have to be tested, but it wpuld let Heavy do something with melee and make the Warrior's Spirit a decent weapon.
Fuck you and your dumb artsy I'm special profile picture
Awesome idea
I think what would also be cool is if the right fist has a bit of upward knockback and stun, that would make it feel more like an uppercut
This is a nice coincidence
I unboxed a Strange Warrior's Spirit just this morning
Ah mannpower, where all weapons are good except all demoknight weapons (thanks solarlight)
5:56 that is incorrect the damage vulnerabilities do not stack
Yes they do
I played a bit of the rebalanced server and its amazing definitely worth making a patreon for this
Melee Heavy has always been mystifying to me. If you are in melee range with any enemy SHOOT THEM WITH THE MINIGUN. Heavy melee options need to do something special to even have a point. GRU are a good example of this concept, but a melee option that does a some more damage?? The Minigun does a lot more damage! A lot more damage than, like, everything.
The amount of blood, sweat and tears to make this video is far more than you would expect
You could say the process was
Unbearable
Is it just me, or did anyone else think Fish did his a video on this before now?
I guess the Warrior's Spirit was so bad I thought its video had already been made
Deadass every time I see a new one of these I get such a dopamine hit
After using the warrior spirit, I feel like the downside doesn't exist if you play shotgun heavy. The warrior spirit does about the amount of damage a meat shot does with the shotgun which gives you flexibility with your shotgun aim when gunning someone down. Now it may seem hard to get into melee range as the heavy, but if Uncle Dane has me anything, melee range is the most disorienting spot for the heavy to deal with, so having someone come to your melee range is much more common than you'd expect. But if the enemy avoids coming into melee range, congrats, they are staying in the effective range of your other weapons.
I feel as the warrior spirit is best in koth maps as I believe it is a great skirmishing and flank weapon as you often find yourself not needing the utility of heavy's other melees as the map does require much mobility or utility to begin with.
In competitive, soldiers use the market gardener to deal damage while saving rockets, so you should treat the warrior's spirit the same way. As shotgun heavy, every shot in the clip counts and having a way to do the same amount of damage without wasting a shell is great allowing you to be more flexible with your aim after you've managed to get your melee hit in.
No idea why this is paired with the buffalo steak sandvic-
*one hits a soldier*
Oh
I think we should double down on that stats, make it an absolute glass cannon , increase the damage it does and increase damage it takes
I really like the idea of the lunge, and I know exactly how to implement it! In Dead by Daylight, every killer can perform a basic attack by tapping the attack button or a lunge by holding it. Lunging gives you a burst of speed as you are swinging but slows you down in the cool down after you hit.
It was immensely satisfying to see you tickle a bot. I can only hear the muffled cries of it's motherboard as it tries so hard to quicksnipe you.
The Honorbound drawbask seems perfect for the Warrior's Spirit.
Y'know the honor bound idea actually makes a lot of sense in perspective when looking at it from a design point of view, the bear costume and extra damage + vulnerability smells to me like Valve was thinking "berserker style" where you get the power to deal ludicrous damage in exchange for saying goodbye for self preservation, so a way that mad brawler effect could also be implemented (if you ever feel like trying it out) as a "fury/bloodlust timer" where the effects of the warrior's spirit count as without the marked for death for a short amount of time, of maybe 30 to 50 seconds, and unless you manage to kill someone within this timer you will be marked for death, but every time you kill an enemy a small bonus would be added to the timer with diminishing returns, representing the berserker frenzy wearing out, and to punish someone from just pulling them out without properly committing to the full frenzy, the mark for death would trigger instantly the moment you unequip the gloves.
An honor bound mechanic is definitely a good idea. With the increased damage your always expecting a kill when you pull these out, so failing to do so and punishing you accordingly is a good idea.
the WS had a broken base concept from the beginning
my idea, as far too often I wrote in these comments, is a full on rework; a "bleed on hit" and a "minicrit on bleeding enemies" for a damage reduction from these, and the negativ eeffect unchanged (or somewhat reduced the damage vulnerability)and a reduced healing, but from every enemy that you caused bleed on on death. heavy doesn't really shine for support or status, but a bleeding enemy more often than not get surprised by the amount of damage they slowly suffer
and also the removed knockback on the steack. THAT?S EXACTLY what the steack needs
How would knock back make the steak better?you'd just spend more time chasing people you knocked out of your melee range
@@CAMSLAYER13 LESS knockback on the heavy, not "add knockback to hit"
@@serPomiz yea, that'd make much more sense
One way I’d change the Warrior’s Spirit is by turning the “30% damage vulnerability” into the “Honorbound” stat the Half-Zatoichi has.
I’d also buff the Buffalo Steak Sandvich to have a 20% damage resistance instead of a vulnerability as well as remove the invisible speed cap, but keep the “locked to melee” stat.
That way, Heavy gets a fun subclass, the Heavy Boxer, in the same vein as something like Demoknight.
Edit: Huh. I typed this before watching the video, by the way.
Here's an idea: make it so either the steak or the Warrior's Spirit grants knockback immunity. Make it so that the melee side of things is facilitated, while also providing some gimmick that works outside of just melee combat
To note, the Bear/Steak combo on the Reblanace server is genuinely threatening. Seeing a Heavy running at you with resistances with the Warrior’s Spirit will put the fear of God into you. It’s scary shit.
makes sense that the hibernating bear set only works in mvm, you’re a big grizzly man and you’re tearing down the robots who want to take over the world
Also I just wanna add to the holiday punch: you can kill the aimbotters with it to pour some extra salt in the wound.
9:38 Day #139 of playing Rainworld: A moderate episode has been triggered by dropping on enemies, similar to dropwigs.
I've started using this weapon recently and i've been having a blast
so i wanted this episode a lot
All that can be said in this weapon's defence is that if you don't pull it out you aren't entirely gimping yourself
12:04 you jumped down and knew, it was your time to shine
Steak and Warriors spirit is heavy’s best tankbusting option in Mvm that’s pretty funny
tbh a Honorbound effect on the Warrior Spirit probally was the smart move. it encourages you to to utilize it without it crippling you, in instead makes sure your committing to it.
One thing I'll add is that it pairs well with the Tomislav, as it can be revv'd an unrevv'd faster (to go for melee swings), and they both fulfill the other's range problems.
Any damage vulnerability stat usually kills a weapon.
There is also the problem that the melee heavy idea just suck in general. I don't consider not using your primary weapon a subclass. A subclass is something that should involve all inventroy slots.
The steak having a damage vulnerability is utterly ridiculous. The only downside for eating it should be not being able to swap weapons. Not having the sandwich or banana is a big enough downside by itself. I don't know why Valve shits the bed so hard on stuff like this. Is it because heavy would be OP in competitive or something?
I like to use the warrior's spirit in my fat scout loadout, using the family business to get most of the kills or softening an enemy up so i can easily one or two shot them with the bear claws, the 50hp on kill, while not much does really benefit your survivability, and generally most people expect a fat scout to be using the KGB, so when they pull out the warriors spirit they're in for a surprise.
Really fun loadout to use, even if its nowhere near as effective as the KGB.
And this is in the same set as the Brass Beast, and the Buffalo Steak... THREE BAD WEAPONS IN THE SAME SET
I think the weapon need not just an number fix, but some rework:
- by pressing the left and right mouse buttons together would be performed an atack that can grab the enemy and then throw him, the distance would be determined by the class weight.
- you can aim the enemy into other player to damage the two, or in a wall, or in a pitch, maybe 90 or 70 maximun damage
- yeeted enemies will cause a huge knockback on the target
- this type of atack can have an cooldown of 5 or 3 seconds
- aplying an extended reach just like demoman swords
Also, an geral change: when alterning left and right buttons the swimg speed increases on all heavy melees minus the KGB, make the punchs feel like an minigun shooting, it suits the class
As someone who plays a lot of hybrid knight, I can tell you that using warrior's spirit should be a lot like using the claidheamh mor: Instead of having it pulled out and charging at people, you pull it out in a pinch to guarantee that you survive. In case of demo, he can charge out of the place, or charge in and finish a low health oponent. In case of heavy, if the enemy is close enough and is low on health, finishing them with the warrior spirits will heal you, and 50 health is nothing to scoff at, even if Heavy's total health is 300. Enemies will be expecting you to use the minigun so they'll walk as close to you as they can to mess up your tracking, so it's a good situation to slap the stupid out of their faces.
17:59 THIS IS SO SMART CUZ IT'S LIKE A BEAR NOT BEING ABLE TO HIBERNATE UNTIL IT GETS A KILL IT MAKES HEAVY INTO AN ACTUAL HIBERNATING BEAR OH MY GOOOOOOOOOOOD
Me personally, I'd give the WS a sort of snowball effect that after kill with it gives you an added 5 health on top of the 50 you already get, totaling up to 75 hp back per kill and can overheal you, allowing you to go on similar rampages like the KGB but with health instead of kritz
Balance idea
-30 max health
-20% deploy speed
30% damage bonus
20% slower speed swing
+ speed boost on each kill
(not a speed increase)
+faster swing speed on each kill
+ 70 health on kill
Have it as a heavy’s version of the eyelander that snowballs enemies that gets too close to heavy but instead of movement speed it’s a swing speed
What warpaint is that on fosoas’ minigun and shotgun?
18:44 "By the evil arm of the thunderous montezuma, :("