@@sud1881 This isn't a decent argument. The mobility option provides a counter to projectiles. The counter to this is hitscan. The chute is only strong in 6v6 in HL or pubs it was mediocre. Valve needs to stop balancing around 6's, the game wasn't made for it. HL is a better gamemode to balance around as it fits the general theme's of TF2 when it was first made.
Multiple clips shown here show the subtle advantage interrupting your fall in a fight. Everyone you fight is trained to follow the arc of your jump to get a shot in, but they never expect you to just stop falling suddenly, throwing off their timing and tracking. I'd be happy if the base jumper got even 1 extra deploy as a buff, it's definitely one of its more versatile attributes.
And it wouldn't even be OP, because the extra deploy would do the same thing as the Atomizer's third jump - any player that isn't really good will feel _forced_ to use the extra charge, and that makes them predictable.
Yeah it should have 2 deploys. Helps with that, and allows you to fall faster without taking fall damage if you're caught in a bad situation in the air.
@@vyor8837 what???? WHAT???? the FUCK are you talking about??? it literally only invalidated solider and maybe demo. Sniper, Heavy, Scout, Engineer, Pyro, and spy literally had the exact same interactions with him before and after the nerf. You're stupid af.
@@kommu6114 Pretty sure he just did it for the funny moment lmao. As a clip for the video, and it was probably funny to the engineer that was staring at him.
That was some of the most beautiful carpet-bombing I've ever seen. That tip about opening the chute when you're closer to the enemy is something I've never personally tried, and it's actually tempting me to boot up the game for the first time in months.
Also, give it back the "Flames boost deployed players in the air". It's such a stupid meme thing, but considering how easy that would make it to hit one of them with the flare gun, or even worse, the reserve shooter, I think it would be a welcomed back change.
Yeah its very gimmicky lmao. Easier to hit in general, not just with things that get crits. I think the reason it got removed was solely because it was an unintended effect, not because it was too good or anything.
I think it was too strong. I'd be really glad when pyro hit me with a flaregun because then it was easy to retreat. It's quite unfair for pyro players to accidentally buff their enemies by getting a good shot on them. Also, it made no logical sense and looked stupid XD
Idea: You get a heat meter that goes up whenever your friends use fire on you (Be it from flaming huntsmann, CM6000 Supershot, Pyro, etc.). This meter can be consumed by pressing M3 Midair and would make you rise at 500 hu/s but consume 20%/s
It was such stupid serendipitous fun. There are no Pyros in Sixes. The fact this was removed proves just how vindictive the comp queers are that something changes the game's playstyle in ANY way, regardless of the mode.
A point you didn't mention, but was thinking it while you were talking about the scottish resistance is that, because you're firing stickies off from so high, not only does it mitigate the longer arm time, it also gives the enemy less time to realize what is happening because they won't see the stickies flying at them until they're already on the ground. This means you can get more stickies down before people start bolting to safety so you can get bigger multi-kills.
One thing I think you should add into these videos is Valve's original thoughts on a weapon, pre-nerf. On the blog post where the Jumper was teased, it was said that it's balanced as the increased movement options against Pyros and Demos is traded with the user's extended exposure to Snipers and Heavies. Obviously, in the competitive sixes meta, only one and a half of these classes matter, to no fault of the weapon itself. Even looking at Highlander, the weapon was unbanned despite all its pros in S16 UGC, two years before the JI nerf. It's really just the weapon's original vision and the sixes meta not being compatible, not so much as it being overpowered.
That's the thing: 6s in its current state excludes 5/9 classes from most play, most of the gamemodes, multiple strategies/loadouts, and restricts otherwise balanced weapons because they don't fit within the idiosyncratic, inflexible meta they've built for themselves. Currently, it's _not_ overpowered: you're right about that. 6s in its current form really is just incompatible with a lot of strategies and weapons. Edit: it's hard to say whether or not the BASE Jumper was overpowered before JI, but you make a good point in highlighting the disconnect between Highlander and Sixes. When you compare the latter format with the former, the latter's flaws become _very_ apparent. To me, it's pretty evident that Highlander is simply the more balanced, well-rounded and inclusive gamemode. Sixes in its current state is simply too limited to represent the competitive scene as a whole, and I hope that moving forward, Valve takes more inclusive formats into account while balancing weapons, loadouts and class functions. (sorry for the long comment)
it's more then the less valve fult for not trying to balance most of the weapons that were banned in 6s to make them still usable in casual , and also highlander matches are the worst
@@maildaemon Long comments are good. I love discussions. I don't think you can ever "fix" sixes in the sense that sixes isn't broken because the format is perfect... for sixes play. The lack of class variety is not a problem to be fixed in sixes, it's a 'feature' of the format which prides itself on fast paced action. Naturally, this gravitates on the 4/9 meta classes and leaves the others as offpicks at best, which again, isn't necessarily a problem for the format. In terms of the game in a larger sense, however, you can see how it is a problem. It's always frustrating when you see people saying that we should balance weapons for competitive, and yet what they mean is this one format of competitive when competitive itself have different formats. If the competitive players are aware that weapon balance and bans can be different between the formats, then we should also be open to the idea that maybe balancing is harder than just making it balanced to one format's playstyle. Especially so, when the format means that we are more restricted as to what can and should counter the weapon itself. The concept of "it's OP in sixes therefore it's OP in pubs/12v12" is flawed when you look at the banlist differences between sixes and HL. Sometimes, the problem is simply that the weapon isn't compatible to the format, instead of it being overpowered everywhere.
10:31 Notice how he crouches before swinging the Caber? Theres a source spaghetti glitch that makes the caber deal more damage when you're crouching, so now you can terrorize snipers!
trickle-down balance SOUNDS like a good concept, but when the competitive players are playing a fundamentally different game from the casuals (6v6 instead of 12v12), it turns out not to, um, work.
Sixes is the least fun, least creative, and least balanced Team Fortress 2 experience EVER...and it's the only thing Valve balanced around, back when the TF2 dev team...existed.
It works, you just have to focus balance discussions around formats that are more well-rounded, such as Highlander. If you take another look at Dane's discussion on the subject of trickle-down balance, he mentions some of the flaws inherent to the 5CP gamemode. If 6s simply broadened its gamemode selection and map pool, more classes, loadouts and strategies would become viable, and, due to the more balanced gamemodes, less loadouts would be overpowered, as they've been taken out of the narrow context of 5CP 6s and into a broader, more inclusive version of the format.
@@maildaemon the problem is that most weapons end up being balanced around 6's, and when someone complains that a weapon was or is "overpowered in competitive", half of the time they are referring to 6's, because it's just the more famous gamemode despite not even representing 80% of what the rest of the games is like or for what it was designed in mind
@@baneofthebread You're right, 6s does tend to be the primary focus for balance discussions. I'd like to change that, as there is much more to competitive TF2 than 6s, especially considering how limited it is in its current form.
You don't have to look at your Scottish resistance sticky to det it, demo has a small aura around him where right clicking causes any stickies in the radius to detonate, a sometimes helpful (usually not) mechanic.
I think it’s also worth mentioning that in Uncle Dane’s clip, he had two soldiers trying to hit directs on a base jumper, not exactly a rocket launcer’s intended purpose. Meanwhile hitscan weapons wouldnt be effected at all by a soldier redeployed his parachute other than having to aim a tiny bit harder.
Wasn't it three? I think another overlooked point is how you're supposed to shoot someone while dodging. Sure, it makes you harder to hit in this vacuum scenario, but it doesn't show how you're supposed to tie that with attacks in a real match.
He used soldiers to emphasize why it received a nerf: it was overpowered in 6v6. In that format, half of the standard generalist classes only use projectile-based weapons(both the roamer and now even the pocket soldiers are using the Gunboats). That leaves the 2 Scouts as your only hitscan class to deal with that Soldier 40 feet in the air, and they likely have enough to deal with already. If only 1/3 of your opponents can even pose a threat to you, you don't have a well-balanced weapon.
@@gravity1537 and it's still banned in 6's. So what's your point idiot??? Balancing around competitive players ruins the fucking game bc of idiots like you
I never had any real issue with the B.A.S.E Jumper before the nerfs since all it takes to screw up the Soldier’s/Demo’s momentum is just a few shots from any hitscan weapon. I do hope they somewhat revert it in a future update but to not make it as abusable, they could make it so you can only redeploy it about 3 times and increasing the amount of air control from -50% to around -25%.
They gutted the Half-Zatoichi by toning down both the upsides and downsides to why-even-bother levels and removing its random crits which the soldier still has fair need of while leaving them on the Scotsman's Skullcutter, so the least they could do to make up for that disservice would be to repurpose the 50 damage on bloodless sheathe to somewhere around 10 damage per parachute retraction.
Content On the real though, This was a joy to watch and liked the sfm bits early on. It'd be interesting to see them integrated into the video more. This genuinely make me wanna fuck around the the base jumper again. It's been so long. And I like the idea for making it unban worthy in comp where taking more damage causes your fall speed to slowly return to normal. Like the parachute is having holes put in it. Great work as always fish.
The festivized version would be really cool of an idea tho. Just having the chute be a Christmas tree with bright colorful lights on it and the backpack itself as a sort of present. Very colorful and snazzy, while also being a lot easier to spot in the air; but who cares about that when you look festive! As long as you don't blast Christmas music
I can imagine dying, then the killcam focuses on a (Practical) Rave in the sky while a Scottish Resistance Demo with a plane on his waist gently falls like paper with a thumbs up lol (Just imagine the stupidity when you combine this with other cosmetics)
That'd be hilarous. Imagine a clip where it shows some soldier hearing "All I want tor Christmas is you", the camera panning up and shows an airstrike soldier shooting everyone. @KaaneDragonShinobi
As a sniper I do enjoy hesitating for a good moment so that as the reloading soilder slowly falls, he knows how screwed he really is. Then I'M GONNA TURN YA HEAD INTO COLOURED RAIN!
Base Jumper + Scotish Resistence = WW1 Air bomber Roleplay Base Jumper + Air Strike or Beggar's Bazooka = Jet Bomber Roleplay Base Jumper + Any other Rocket Launcher = Mortar Fire Roleplay Base Jumper + Rocket Jumper = Paratrooper about to assault a trench Roleplay
Base Jumper + Air strike = engy nest / sniper menace or juggle heavies lol Beggars = literal scatter bomb dive bombing Black box = doing what you did but now a bit easier in the air Direct hit = airborne sniper LL = carpet bombing with chinese water filled missiles Stock SBL =carpet bomb demo ScoRes = cloudy with a chance of stickies QBL = airborne sniper
The "bad, but fun" kind of weapon that isn't a weapon. Now excuse me while I prove the superiority of the Scottish Resistance against my enemies flying around like a US air strike.
The problem with the Base Jumper was that 6 v 6 is a joke. It’s watered down and only accommodates half the classes. Literally the counters to this tool, are just other classes. Hovering over mid? Heavy him down with Bullet Hell. That isn’t scout’s job because scout is a close range class! Like, the solution is so obvious but god forbid we “disrupt the holy 6’s meta”! Besides they banned it in 6’s anyway so literally any argument they’d have about it is irrelevant cause they weren’t even using it!
ah yes, the heavy needs to aim straight up and ignore literally every other thing-and he's dead because the scout shot him. Or a sniper. Or got backstabbed. Or was blown up by the rain of explosives.
@@MotorcycleCheetah except they do play heavy for last holds and pushing into second from last the point. They also run spy for pushing into last to sap the sentry, as engie is also used in last holds.
@@MotorcycleCheetah yeah, pyro is also run rarely as an off pick for offense, namely to counter toamer soldiers with airblast. Usee to be more common, but dual soldiers became meta because it was generally more effective.
Man I miss the old base jumper, the amount of mobility you got out of it before was so much fun to mess around with even if I all did with it was mess around with people pretending I was in the matrix lmao, now it's just kinda boring and not fun to use.
this is purely a pet peeve of mine but the distance achievement for this is insane. Especially when actively parachuting makes you so much more vulnerable, and even then it doesn't really feel like the game actually counts the full distance. And you have that grind on both classes.
Same, though I found it way harder on demoman since soldier could just get way more use out of it in my experience and sacrificing a shotgun/banner/pair of boots is not as big of a deal as the grenade launcher.
@@Psyche_TH yeah my progress is a lot more behind on demo. Feels like rocket jumping is just easier to get more out of for this purpose than grenade jumps, though that could just be me.
I just love the B.A.S.E. Jumper because casual still has random crits enabled so you technically have a higher chance of shooting one. If you shoot one, it's a "low" chance, but if you're firing eight, it's almost guaranteed, or it at least feels like you get one every time
You get to fire about 2-3 crits how fast it fires. Same with beggars if you shoot 3 last is a crit fire 1 more its usually a crit. Air strike usually it happens between 3rd and 5th rocket. It is also because even without kills it does so kuch collateral damage you reach limit. In between down times of ammo replenish and reloading the RC counter activates. Tried it out a lot and especially mvm happens ALOT
I think this your best weapon academy yet! The amount of depth you covered with each possible situation and the examples you provided left no question left unanswered. As well as having soldier for the second half of the video to keep the video feeling fresh made my interest keep focus through the whole video.
@@SpunkMayo Yeah right. Sure you would. Fish has said on stream that he's trying to save up to buy a house, so he needs all the money he can get. Plus getting sponsorships is part of being a youtuber. Most TH-camrs have done it at some point. I highly doubt that the moment you see a content creator you like a lot get a sponsor, you unsubscribe and have a hissy fit in the comments, complaining about how they should grow their channel "Organically" whatever the hell that means.
I unironically love the B.A.S.E. Jumper on Soldier, mostly because I suck at doing efficient Rocket Jumps, and like that it can extend Rocket Jump momentum a little bit (faster than walking as Soldier). I combine it with Liberty Launcher to reduce both blast damage and fall damage. I will admit almost every other Soldier Secondary is better for the slot, though.
I remember this weapon being extremely overpowered when use by a high level trolldier, now it's not even worth using it. Valve has this midas touch only any changes would either make it extremely op or very useless
@@DinnerForkTongue still though, back then if you were already good at market gardening then this item was literally a permanent 195 melee and being able to be faster than scout It's crutch for if you're casual, but you're an unstoppable force if you're a try hard sweaty competitive player
That also happened to a lot of weapons too even underwhelming weapons too , like the bison , the bison used to be just mediocre then it became pretty bad then again became terible and now it became arguably the worst tf2 weapon The bison makes me sad
I play TF2 really on and off these days, but your videos are always a joy to watch. I really feel like your style has matured over the years and I always look forward to the next one.
I wonder how that engi felt after seeing you leave the game after he took the health pack from you. Did he think you were overreacting or did he feel guilty?
*Base Jumper*: Gets nerfed because it was banned in competitive. *Also Base Jumper*: Still is banned in competitive after nerf. And people wonder why casual players are angry at comp players for this weapon.
It was nerfed due to being unbalanced, a demo could sit in the air raining down stickys and the only thing that could counter him was a heavy focusing him for like 15 seconds or most of the team focusing him down. Its still good on demo, just more counterable now, cant spam undeploy and deploy when a projectile is about to hit you to dodge it cant airstrafe super hard to counter snipers/scouts/pyros. still good on demo and as for soldier it was already bad on him and still is bad on him so nothing changed there. Its still banned because its still very good for demo
I once told a scout that fish sent me, so he whipped out the holy mackerel and slapped me to death. No, not really. I haven't played TF2 in years, I just thought the scenario was funny.
Imagine if pyro could replace their melee with the base-jumper so you can just be a Jetpack-Parachute idiot raining fire on everyone. It would totally be inviable but it would be funny as hell.
Damn, you're right, I mean it sure would make you look stupid if I killed one with this loadout in literally the very next clip, and several other clips throughout the video but you're right. Because Sniper can kill extremely slow moving targets with limited mobility that have projectiles as their only means of attack very easily, this makes him broken. I will hereby be deleting all of my Sniper items from my backpack.
@@fishstickonastick-gaming Sorry man, everyone's got a hill. This is my hill. To speak a little more thoroughly on it, what I really think, I suppose, is that I don't think that it's acceptable for a class, regardless of how "good" its handler is, to be able to just look at somebody and say "No no, you have to stop playing until you respawn now." in one click from a range where any retaliation without being that same class is not feasible. Sniper just serves as being the Fun Police because there's no meaningful transaction between a Sniper and any other class aside from Spy other than "Just don't go where the Sniper can point at your head.". Now, I'm sure you're gonna think this sounds ridiculous, but I have a question. How would you personally feel if all Sniper Rifles were changed into projectile weapons? Fast projectiles, sure (maybe use it to tweak weapons, such as giving the Bazaar Bargain a slower projectile speed, at least until it has all its heads if it must remain a straight upgrade in its user's ideal circumstance for some reason), but now the complication of having to lead one's shot is thrown into the equation instead of it just being mindless hitscan. That Brass Beast Heavy standing in front of the cart is still easy pickings, but now it's much harder to just Alt+F4 a threat that's approaching rapidly. Also you forgot to Ed-it over the sign image in the bonus clip where it's showing the weapon and whatnot.
@@ThatguycalledJoe If Sniper Rifles were changed to projectile weapons, all that would mean is they turn into Huntsman equivalents. This means the dynamic of the fight changes from "I have seen the Sniper and he sees me" to "The Sniper has already ducked behind a corner and his projectile is in the process of coming towards my face" and when you mix that with the janky Huntsman headshot mechanics that ensure you can get headshots by visibly missing someone's head, what you have is a recipe for disaster. The counterplay doesn't change, the complaints don't change, the only thing that now changes is the Sniper no longer needs to be looking at you in order for you to die. It's called the Lucksman for a reason and that reason is not because it's any more or less fun to fight than the hitscan Sniper Rifles.
@@fishstickonastick-gaming Isn't the Huntsman like that because it's trying to mix headshots with using the target's bounding box to check for a hit? I would hope a projectile Sniper Rifle would be an exception to the rule and just use the actual hitboxes to determine if the shot connected or not. At the very least it'd probably be worth trying to make the Huntsman just.. not be the way it is, but TF2 has broken collision all over the place so that's hardly a unique problem.
“Hard to deal with a pre nerf base jumper” Aka, Comp Scunts got mad that they couldn’t do anything to a base jumper soldier. The poor things, my heart truly breaks for em.
It was nerfed due to being unbalanced, a demo could sit in the air raining down stickys and the only thing that could counter him was a heavy focusing him for like 15 seconds or most of the team focusing him down. Its still good on demo, just more counterable now, cant spam undeploy and deploy when a projectile is about to hit you to dodge it cant airstrafe super hard to counter snipers/scouts/pyros. still good on demo and as for soldier it was already bad on him and still is bad on him so nothing changed there. Its still banned because its still very good for demo
@@josephg1125 Then why nerf it if it's still going to be banned anyway? The game was never designed for 6v6 and gutting every weapon and rebalancing every mechanic around an alternate gamemode's banlist is stupid
@@MrCoolioPants I literally said it was nerfed due to being OP in any settings not just 6s and gave a detailed explanation as to why. Might want to actually read the comment your replying to before repeating the braindead nonsense zesty spewed as your reply.
Can't wait to see everyone and their grandma start using Airstrike, Base Jumper, Market Gardener together! I, meanwhile, am working on mastering the Dalokohs Bar.
Funnily enough, I already used both the air strike and the scottish resistance without the jumper before this. The air strike in particular is interesting enough without ever actually jumping with it with the clip snowball mechanic, and when you do the increased clip size and faster firing speed can let you do jumps other launchers just can't.
A Heavy Main's pro tip: Using the Dalokohs Bar with the Fists of Steel effectively gives you 575 health, and can allow you to survive a fully-charged Machina headshot. You can also use it with the Natascha or Brass Beast to trigger the 20% damage resistance earlier and then use that extra health to judge a situation better.
Haven’t watched the video but the best way to get kills with the parachute is to get the drop on enemies, or deploy right before hitting to throw them off.
Still don't quite understand why the weapon is still banned in 6s. Yeah demo can hover above a point but soldier can often one shot him with the direct hit which is not banned.
I feel like you didn't give the Liberty Launcher enough attention on this, I've had some pretty good luck with it. It has similar effects to the air strike (additional rockets, increased attack speed, and reduced damage) while still having proper splash damage, which can be devastating bombing into large groups. You can also get started right away, since it's always a 5 rocket clip.
"Constant Nuisance that just won't die" You could just pick sniper, or heavy, or engineer, or a pistol/revolver or even a medic if you really trust your crossbow aim since any amount of hitscan just fucking destroyed it.The base jumper was only OP in sixes where you *inexplicably* limit yourself to 4 of the 9 classes, 2 of those 4 classes have access to the base jumper and all four classes either use projectiles or shotguns. In literally every other circumstance you were just sniper fodder or free FJ crits so in literally every other circumstance it wasn't OP. Especially since of both classes that can use it, getting up in the air (and actually do something and not just memes) requires you hurt yourself so you were almost always below 150hp.
I love the whimsical old music in the first clip, sounds like something out of a silent comedy that perfectly reflects the sheer stupidity of the B.A.S.E jumper
The thing people need to realize the issue wasn't exactly that it was difficult to hit the person using it. For starters it's a jumping tool, so using it costs health to begin with, but at the same time costs pretty much all of your horizontal mobility, which pretty much cripples your jumps in return from unpredictable movement which doesn't really stop hitscan that much. Also keep in mind that the only tools you'd have would be rockets or stickies, so you're either at a distance where your damage is low due to falloff, or just waiting for stickies to travel, on top of being a target when you try to shoot. Why was it nerfed then? Apparently due to how dominant Scout was in the comp meta, there were so many complaints about how effectively it countered scout that Valve nerfed it. Which is why it's still banned. No one cared that you could avoid shots. They cared that Scout couldn't kill you. That's it. That's why it's still banned. That "hover over mid without retaliation" part. That part that makes no sense in any context. Yeah. That.
You could literally counter it hard by just playing sniper or heavy. But those classes are not meta in 6s so everything has to be changed. IMO, competitive players whining has ruined many of the fun weapons of tf2 and even when they have been catered too they still have the weapons disabled, effectively just changing it for causal players.
So it was nerfed because it position soldiers and demos outside of a scout's ranges.... I'm pretty sure a smart person know that changing classes is an option if they are a annoying, like a sniper or a heavy or hell even a spy can take care of a base jumper soldier and demos
this kind of balancing is nothing new, people will hate on a meta constantly, but they will dig there heels into the mud to make sure it stays alive, ranging from literally make a weapon that leaves the soldier exposed to easy damage from any hitscan weapon in the game, of which everyone except demo and medic has at least one
It was nerfed due to being unbalanced, a demo could sit in the air raining down stickys and the only thing that could counter him was a heavy focusing him for like 15 seconds or most of the team focusing him down. Its still good on demo, just more counterable now, cant spam undeploy and deploy when a projectile is about to hit you to dodge it cant airstrafe super hard to counter snipers/scouts/pyros. still good on demo and as for soldier it was already bad on him and still is bad on him so nothing changed there. Its still banned because its still very good for demo
People barging in, breaking my spawn door: We've got you surounded! Come rebalance all your weapons to fit niche competetive meta! Me, covering behind resuply locker, grasping my pan: I HATE THE TF2 COMPETETIVE COMMUNITY! I HATE THE TF2 COMPETETIVE COMMUNITY!!!
The base jumper actually works suprisingly well with the cow mangler, as it allows for much more speed and mobility using charge shots, and allows you to shoot one out of nowhere at the enemy team by floating around above them
I know your comment is 1 year old and that youve realized this now, but the enemy team might just see you floating in the air and shred you down so badly its worse than Jose Rizal's death
The base jumper wasn't broken. It was only "broken" in 6v6 competitive (the worst way to play the game) because the meta doesn't permit heavies and engineers to counter it. Once again something fun died in the name of "competitive balance." Most things that are "over powered" in 6v6 aren't in 12v12 simply because larger team sizes allows for more classes to be played. But hey, it's not like valve designed TF2 to be a 12v12 game from the ground up or anything :)
watch HiGPS' video showing the original base jumper in a pub. it definitely needed a nerf. the only reason people disagree is because they never saw someone actually abusing the insane air accel values and infinite redeploys back in the day
Competitive 6s "Use anything other than 2 scouts 2 soldiers 1 demo 1 medic 5 CP challenge" (impossible). It is really hard to hit someone with a lot of air mobility...when you exclusively use shotguns and projectiles. The base jumper never should have been nerfed.
Fun fact, for two main uses of this item, it can be replaced by source bugs. The fall damage? If you crouch at the perfect time, you don't take fall damage in normal gameplay because source gets confused. Extending a garden? Bunny hopping may not make you faster, but source still thinks you're never touched the floor.
No, I'm not going to play Raid: Shadow Legends. Don't ask me again until the game has a title that was written by an actual human being instead of that A.I. that Keaton Patti made.
The B.A.S.E Jumper is a great example of a weapon that didn't deserve a nerf, was still nerfed because "too good in competitive", then the weapon remains banned in competitive, and is mostly worthless in Casual. poggers
It was nerfed due to being unbalanced, a demo could sit in the air raining down stickys and the only thing that could counter him was a heavy focusing him for like 15 seconds or most of the team focusing him down. Its still good on demo, just more counterable now, cant spam undeploy and deploy when a projectile is about to hit you to dodge it cant airstrafe super hard to counter snipers/scouts/pyros. still good on demo and as for soldier it was already bad on him and still is bad on him so nothing changed there. Its still banned because its still very good for demo
where did comp players complain about the item at all? where did valve say they listened to their feedback at all? the nerf was in jungle inferno after valve comp was already abandoned. it's nerf was because of how insane your movement could be if you had half a brain and knew how to actually air strafe
![[TF2] Bad Weapon Academy: Back Scatter](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/DShCyi6CoRw/mqdefault.jpg)
![[TF2] Bad Weapon Academy: Back Scatter](/img/tr.png)
![[TF2] Bad Weapon Academy: Red Tape Recorder](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/v5JaFTnT2DQ/mqdefault.jpg)
![[TF2] Bad Weapon Academy: Warrior's Spirit](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/kXZwW4NuOOQ/mqdefault.jpg)
![[TF2] Bad Weapon Academy: Liberty Launcher](/img/n.gif)
Install Raid for Free ✅ IOS/ANDROID/PC: clik.cc/p1fTX and get a special starter pack 💥 Available only for the next 30 days
Hell no
nope
Not now, not ever
no u have fallen down a deep hole and now will take sponsors from as companyeds
“You were the chosen one.”
The BASE jumper was overpowered on one class, so they made it nearly unusable on two. Thanks Valve!
"Overpowered" like it was annoying when enemies kept spamming the space button, but there are counters to it
You say overpowered, I say haha Natascha go brrrr
Get back to work bright. Don't mind me also not working shhhhhhhhh
@I exist eh you’d be better off trying to pepper then witha pistol as scout then using a class with such low mobility in most cases.
@@sud1881 This isn't a decent argument. The mobility option provides a counter to projectiles.
The counter to this is hitscan. The chute is only strong in 6v6 in HL or pubs it was mediocre. Valve needs to stop balancing around 6's, the game wasn't made for it. HL is a better gamemode to balance around as it fits the general theme's of TF2 when it was first made.
Multiple clips shown here show the subtle advantage interrupting your fall in a fight. Everyone you fight is trained to follow the arc of your jump to get a shot in, but they never expect you to just stop falling suddenly, throwing off their timing and tracking. I'd be happy if the base jumper got even 1 extra deploy as a buff, it's definitely one of its more versatile attributes.
I'll would like it better if the deploy nerf was removed but this suggestion is a nive compromise
And it wouldn't even be OP, because the extra deploy would do the same thing as the Atomizer's third jump - any player that isn't really good will feel _forced_ to use the extra charge, and that makes them predictable.
Yeah it should have 2 deploys. Helps with that, and allows you to fall faster without taking fall damage if you're caught in a bad situation in the air.
@@memeking7273 the original version invalidated 8/9 classes
@@vyor8837 what???? WHAT???? the FUCK are you talking about??? it literally only invalidated solider and maybe demo. Sniper, Heavy, Scout, Engineer, Pyro, and spy literally had the exact same interactions with him before and after the nerf. You're stupid af.
8:18 I love how you leave when the engie picked the health
"nope, not gonna deal with this shit"
fantastic moment
The engi was low too tho.
That was kind of a chidish move
@@kommu6114 Pretty sure he just did it for the funny moment lmao. As a clip for the video, and it was probably funny to the engineer that was staring at him.
@@DaisiesTC Yeah, it was fun nonetheless, i didn't say it wasn't, but the situation still is kind of childish.
That was some of the most beautiful carpet-bombing I've ever seen. That tip about opening the chute when you're closer to the enemy is something I've never personally tried, and it's actually tempting me to boot up the game for the first time in months.
Yeah me too- would be fun launching Halloween spells from the skybox at enemies
DO IT
It's called the Airstrike, not the Carpet Bomber for a reason
@@daddysempaichan
But people carpet bomb with it...
Not that they always should or do, but it's not like they don't.
Also, give it back the "Flames boost deployed players in the air". It's such a stupid meme thing, but considering how easy that would make it to hit one of them with the flare gun, or even worse, the reserve shooter, I think it would be a welcomed back change.
Yeah its very gimmicky lmao. Easier to hit in general, not just with things that get crits. I think the reason it got removed was solely because it was an unintended effect, not because it was too good or anything.
I think it was too strong. I'd be really glad when pyro hit me with a flaregun because then it was easy to retreat. It's quite unfair for pyro players to accidentally buff their enemies by getting a good shot on them.
Also, it made no logical sense and looked stupid XD
@@TheRABIDdude hot air balloon
Idea: You get a heat meter that goes up whenever your friends use fire on you (Be it from flaming huntsmann, CM6000 Supershot, Pyro, etc.). This meter can be consumed by pressing M3 Midair and would make you rise at 500 hu/s but consume 20%/s
It was such stupid serendipitous fun.
There are no Pyros in Sixes. The fact this was removed proves just how vindictive the comp queers are that something changes the game's playstyle in ANY way, regardless of the mode.
Why does it feel so right if Demo and Soldier could taunt in mid-air with the B.A.S.E jumper
Or a unique taunt
"I am the America eagles,fear me!"
"yall are going to be sheded salads when I got down"
Imagine their upper body actually doing the taunt while their legs are dangling in the air
use the equalizer taunt to RP as a firework
what would the movable taunts do
A point you didn't mention, but was thinking it while you were talking about the scottish resistance is that, because you're firing stickies off from so high, not only does it mitigate the longer arm time, it also gives the enemy less time to realize what is happening because they won't see the stickies flying at them until they're already on the ground. This means you can get more stickies down before people start bolting to safety so you can get bigger multi-kills.
Didn't ya see the bloody bombs?
- paratrooper demoflower
@@TK-7193 Paraknight or SAS work
@@nguyenquyetthang1326 sus?!
@@thunderspark1536
Nah.
No.
@@ivoryas1696 >:(
One thing I think you should add into these videos is Valve's original thoughts on a weapon, pre-nerf. On the blog post where the Jumper was teased, it was said that it's balanced as the increased movement options against Pyros and Demos is traded with the user's extended exposure to Snipers and Heavies. Obviously, in the competitive sixes meta, only one and a half of these classes matter, to no fault of the weapon itself. Even looking at Highlander, the weapon was unbanned despite all its pros in S16 UGC, two years before the JI nerf. It's really just the weapon's original vision and the sixes meta not being compatible, not so much as it being overpowered.
Basically the sixes community ruined things as usual for everyone who actually finds the game "fun"
That's the thing: 6s in its current state excludes 5/9 classes from most play, most of the gamemodes, multiple strategies/loadouts, and restricts otherwise balanced weapons because they don't fit within the idiosyncratic, inflexible meta they've built for themselves.
Currently, it's _not_ overpowered: you're right about that. 6s in its current form really is just incompatible with a lot of strategies and weapons.
Edit: it's hard to say whether or not the BASE Jumper was overpowered before JI, but you make a good point in highlighting the disconnect between Highlander and Sixes. When you compare the latter format with the former, the latter's flaws become _very_ apparent. To me, it's pretty evident that Highlander is simply the more balanced, well-rounded and inclusive gamemode. Sixes in its current state is simply too limited to represent the competitive scene as a whole, and I hope that moving forward, Valve takes more inclusive formats into account while balancing weapons, loadouts and class functions.
(sorry for the long comment)
@@SnivyTries Pretty bad take, maybe try using a little more nuance next time
it's more then the less valve fult for not trying to balance most of the weapons that were banned in 6s to make them still usable in casual , and also highlander matches are the worst
@@maildaemon Long comments are good. I love discussions.
I don't think you can ever "fix" sixes in the sense that sixes isn't broken because the format is perfect... for sixes play. The lack of class variety is not a problem to be fixed in sixes, it's a 'feature' of the format which prides itself on fast paced action. Naturally, this gravitates on the 4/9 meta classes and leaves the others as offpicks at best, which again, isn't necessarily a problem for the format. In terms of the game in a larger sense, however, you can see how it is a problem.
It's always frustrating when you see people saying that we should balance weapons for competitive, and yet what they mean is this one format of competitive when competitive itself have different formats. If the competitive players are aware that weapon balance and bans can be different between the formats, then we should also be open to the idea that maybe balancing is harder than just making it balanced to one format's playstyle. Especially so, when the format means that we are more restricted as to what can and should counter the weapon itself.
The concept of "it's OP in sixes therefore it's OP in pubs/12v12" is flawed when you look at the banlist differences between sixes and HL. Sometimes, the problem is simply that the weapon isn't compatible to the format, instead of it being overpowered everywhere.
3:20 if the base jumper is a crutch for trolldiers who cant garden, then the manntreads are a crutch for trolldiers who can't strafe.
So true bestie
Trolldiers who use the MG are crutches for people who can't stomp on enemies as the jetpack pyros
That doesn't really make sense.. the treads help you keep momentum from inevitably getting hit with any knock back
10:31 Notice how he crouches before swinging the Caber? Theres a source spaghetti glitch that makes the caber deal more damage when you're crouching, so now you can terrorize snipers!
>:)
I think it's because it spawns the explosion a little above, so by crouching, it becomes more center mass.
trickle-down balance SOUNDS like a good concept, but when the competitive players are playing a fundamentally different game from the casuals (6v6 instead of 12v12), it turns out not to, um, work.
Sixes is the least fun, least creative, and least balanced Team Fortress 2 experience EVER...and it's the only thing Valve balanced around, back when the TF2 dev team...existed.
@@SnivyTries Pretty bold take you've got there, would you mind elaborating with a little more detail?
It works, you just have to focus balance discussions around formats that are more well-rounded, such as Highlander.
If you take another look at Dane's discussion on the subject of trickle-down balance, he mentions some of the flaws inherent to the 5CP gamemode. If 6s simply broadened its gamemode selection and map pool, more classes, loadouts and strategies would become viable, and, due to the more balanced gamemodes, less loadouts would be overpowered, as they've been taken out of the narrow context of 5CP 6s and into a broader, more inclusive version of the format.
@@maildaemon the problem is that most weapons end up being balanced around 6's, and when someone complains that a weapon was or is "overpowered in competitive", half of the time they are referring to 6's, because it's just the more famous gamemode despite not even representing 80% of what the rest of the games is like or for what it was designed in mind
@@baneofthebread You're right, 6s does tend to be the primary focus for balance discussions. I'd like to change that, as there is much more to competitive TF2 than 6s, especially considering how limited it is in its current form.
You don't have to look at your Scottish resistance sticky to det it, demo has a small aura around him where right clicking causes any stickies in the radius to detonate, a sometimes helpful (usually not) mechanic.
How far
@@plummeted
Not very. It is more ment to let you contnue doing your sticky jumps without having to look at them.
Gotten got by my own traps a fair few times thanks to that POS mechanic.
@@doubledee8677
Then again, that would have happen even with the normal sticky launcher with a split up trap.
pretty sure he has a video on this channel where he says this, yeah
Can we all just appreciate the cold clip at 8:20? That was iconic
"Bad weapon"
*Laughs in orbital bombardmemt with demoman*
Sniper:
Give sniper the B.A.S.E. jumper for an Air-born power turret
I think it’s also worth mentioning that in Uncle Dane’s clip, he had two soldiers trying to hit directs on a base jumper, not exactly a rocket launcer’s intended purpose. Meanwhile hitscan weapons wouldnt be effected at all by a soldier redeployed his parachute other than having to aim a tiny bit harder.
Wasn't it three? I think another overlooked point is how you're supposed to shoot someone while dodging. Sure, it makes you harder to hit in this vacuum scenario, but it doesn't show how you're supposed to tie that with attacks in a real match.
Actually, that's the *exact* intended purpose of the Direct Hit: hitting airshots.
He used soldiers to emphasize why it received a nerf: it was overpowered in 6v6. In that format, half of the standard generalist classes only use projectile-based weapons(both the roamer and now even the pocket soldiers are using the Gunboats). That leaves the 2 Scouts as your only hitscan class to deal with that Soldier 40 feet in the air, and they likely have enough to deal with already. If only 1/3 of your opponents can even pose a threat to you, you don't have a well-balanced weapon.
@@gravity1537 and it's still banned in 6's. So what's your point idiot??? Balancing around competitive players ruins the fucking game bc of idiots like you
@@blueyandicy Maybe try being a little nicer, and bring a little more nuance to the table?
This is truly the strongest weapon, it deals so much damage
No wonder I haven't unlocked it! Must be late game.
@@cooldude8570 it is. You have to have 999999 hours to unlock it.
@@gull4564 or you can get it sooner by buying it off of the mannco store!
don't. don't buy it off the mannco store.
@@cozzalozza9089 it costs 5 trillion dollars, definitely worth it
Fr bro they really need to nerf the medigun
I never had any real issue with the B.A.S.E Jumper before the nerfs since all it takes to screw up the Soldier’s/Demo’s momentum is just a few shots from any hitscan weapon.
I do hope they somewhat revert it in a future update but to not make it as abusable, they could make it so you can only redeploy it about 3 times and increasing the amount of air control from -50% to around -25%.
Hi Sitck. Or Maybe just add some passive benefits, like two of the banners or the boots
i think having the full air control but no redeploy is fine tbh
Wth you here, and where is vid?
balls
They gutted the Half-Zatoichi by toning down both the upsides and downsides to why-even-bother levels and removing its random crits which the soldier still has fair need of while leaving them on the Scotsman's Skullcutter, so the least they could do to make up for that disservice would be to repurpose the 50 damage on bloodless sheathe to somewhere around 10 damage per parachute retraction.
Our boy finally got sponsored by Raid. He’s moving on up. I remember when you were just a little guppie reviewing JTK, and now you’re all grown up.
Itsjoever
Tbh, that was the most interesting raid sponsorship I’ve ever seen
that's adorable
He's a shill now. Sad to see decent TH-camrs lose all dignity for a few bucks.
@@SpunkMayo everyone has to make money somehow, tbh he deserves it anyways with how high effort and high quality his videos are
Content
On the real though, This was a joy to watch and liked the sfm bits early on. It'd be interesting to see them integrated into the video more. This genuinely make me wanna fuck around the the base jumper again. It's been so long. And I like the idea for making it unban worthy in comp where taking more damage causes your fall speed to slowly return to normal. Like the parachute is having holes put in it. Great work as always fish.
Also "Dryden Assault"
I tried. Blame my dyslexia.
@@fishstickonastick-gaming lol i dont blame you + it’s funny
The festivized version would be really cool of an idea tho. Just having the chute be a Christmas tree with bright colorful lights on it and the backpack itself as a sort of present. Very colorful and snazzy, while also being a lot easier to spot in the air; but who cares about that when you look festive! As long as you don't blast Christmas music
"All I Want for Christmas is You" blaring from the skies while soldier/demo rains down festive hell
I can imagine dying, then the killcam focuses on a (Practical) Rave in the sky while a Scottish Resistance Demo with a plane on his waist gently falls like paper with a thumbs up lol (Just imagine the stupidity when you combine this with other cosmetics)
That'd be hilarous. Imagine a clip where it shows some soldier hearing "All I want tor Christmas is you", the camera panning up and shows an airstrike soldier shooting everyone. @KaaneDragonShinobi
As a sniper I do enjoy hesitating for a good moment so that as the reloading soilder slowly falls, he knows how screwed he really is. Then I'M GONNA TURN YA HEAD INTO COLOURED RAIN!
“THAT HELMETS GONNA MAKE A NICE BOWL FOR YA BRAINS.”
*misses the shot*
@@alexanderraz.
(Soldier lands and proceeds to miss multiple Direct Hit rockets at point-blank range)
Base Jumper + Scotish Resistence = WW1 Air bomber Roleplay
Base Jumper + Air Strike or Beggar's Bazooka = Jet Bomber Roleplay
Base Jumper + Any other Rocket Launcher = Mortar Fire Roleplay
Base Jumper + Rocket Jumper = Paratrooper about to assault a trench Roleplay
Randomizer mode: Heavy + Base Jumper + Family Bussiness + Fist of Steel = Heavy Airborne Assault.
Base Jumper +
Air strike = engy nest / sniper menace or juggle heavies lol
Beggars = literal scatter bomb dive bombing
Black box = doing what you did but now a bit easier in the air
Direct hit = airborne sniper
LL = carpet bombing with chinese water filled missiles
Stock SBL =carpet bomb demo
ScoRes = cloudy with a chance of stickies
QBL = airborne sniper
When you miss your market garden so bad that even the enemy feels pity.
Also worth to note that base jumper + airstrike is a monster in mvm, especially with crit canteens.
I used the buff banner, but yeah the only rocket launcher where i don't need to be crazy coordinated or good to defeat Wave 666
yeah but beggars conch does the same thing for cheaper
literally used just this with friends once and beat wave 666. everyone, air strike and base jumper, shredded tanks faster than we expected
Enemy team (exists)
Air Strike+BASE Jumper Soldier with a full clip and a Kritz medic: DELET THIS.
Tbh, Air Strike is a monster in general, with or without the base jumper.
13:19 That poor heavy was forced to go a space trip thanks to your direct hit lmao
7:28 "you will not have any fun" I say nay to that good sir! You will have so much fun! Especially with the Ullapool Caber!
The "bad, but fun" kind of weapon that isn't a weapon. Now excuse me while I prove the superiority of the Scottish Resistance against my enemies flying around like a US air strike.
Turn your self into a predator drone and carpet bomb entire area. Or an infantry killer in randomizer mode with heavy.
8:22 understandable man
The problem with the Base Jumper was that 6 v 6 is a joke. It’s watered down and only accommodates half the classes. Literally the counters to this tool, are just other classes. Hovering over mid? Heavy him down with Bullet Hell. That isn’t scout’s job because scout is a close range class! Like, the solution is so obvious but god forbid we “disrupt the holy 6’s meta”!
Besides they banned it in 6’s anyway so literally any argument they’d have about it is irrelevant cause they weren’t even using it!
ah yes, the heavy needs to aim straight up and ignore literally every other thing-and he's dead because the scout shot him. Or a sniper. Or got backstabbed. Or was blown up by the rain of explosives.
@@vyor8837 Except none of that would happen cause no one plays Heavy in these.
@@MotorcycleCheetah except they do play heavy for last holds and pushing into second from last the point. They also run spy for pushing into last to sap the sentry, as engie is also used in last holds.
@@vyor8837 First I’ve heard of it. It’s always “Generalist this, Generalist that”. Honestly if that is true, that’s actually really nice to hear.
@@MotorcycleCheetah yeah, pyro is also run rarely as an off pick for offense, namely to counter toamer soldiers with airblast. Usee to be more common, but dual soldiers became meta because it was generally more effective.
I can see the regret in that engi’s goggles when they took your healthpack.
Man I miss the old base jumper, the amount of mobility you got out of it before was so much fun to mess around with even if I all did with it was mess around with people pretending I was in the matrix lmao, now it's just kinda boring and not fun to use.
or the Caber chaos...........that looked fun.
12:30 - screen name is Barry B. Benson. I guess he was using . . . *stinger* missiles.
this is purely a pet peeve of mine but the distance achievement for this is insane. Especially when actively parachuting makes you so much more vulnerable, and even then it doesn't really feel like the game actually counts the full distance. And you have that grind on both classes.
Same, though I found it way harder on demoman since soldier could just get way more use out of it in my experience and sacrificing a shotgun/banner/pair of boots is not as big of a deal as the grenade launcher.
@@Psyche_TH yeah my progress is a lot more behind on demo. Feels like rocket jumping is just easier to get more out of for this purpose than grenade jumps, though that could just be me.
Try hightower X100 😂
Youll get it in a single day
Everything Comp ever touches turns good - okay weapons into shit weapons nobody will ever use again.
The raid shadow legend sponsor segment literally made me cringe and yell out “NOO! FISH ON A STICK NOOOOO!!”
Just skip. Also, he need to live too u know
10:18 HOW DARE THEE CHALLENGE THE MIGHT OF THE ETERNAL HAM WITH A WEAPON AS PITIFUL AS AS THE LIMP PAN.
I just love the B.A.S.E. Jumper because casual still has random crits enabled so you technically have a higher chance of shooting one. If you shoot one, it's a "low" chance, but if you're firing eight, it's almost guaranteed, or it at least feels like you get one every time
You get to fire about 2-3 crits how fast it fires. Same with beggars if you shoot 3 last is a crit fire 1 more its usually a crit.
Air strike usually it happens between 3rd and 5th rocket.
It is also because even without kills it does so kuch collateral damage you reach limit. In between down times of ammo replenish and reloading the RC counter activates.
Tried it out a lot and especially mvm happens ALOT
14:21 Pyro wins the video game, 2021, colorized
I think this your best weapon academy yet! The amount of depth you covered with each possible situation and the examples you provided left no question left unanswered. As well as having soldier for the second half of the video to keep the video feeling fresh made my interest keep focus through the whole video.
2:40 The parachute literally saved you from utter annihilation
A Raid: Shadow Legends sponsor is the rite of passage from small TH-camr to less small TH-camr. Congrats
It's a scammy, pay to win title. Disgusting to see people take their money.
@@SpunkMayo He needs like... food to live. You would definitely take the money if you were in his position.
@@aperson4287 sure wouldn't, I'd get a job and grow the channel organically
@@SpunkMayo Yeah right. Sure you would. Fish has said on stream that he's trying to save up to buy a house, so he needs all the money he can get. Plus getting sponsorships is part of being a youtuber. Most TH-camrs have done it at some point. I highly doubt that the moment you see a content creator you like a lot get a sponsor, you unsubscribe and have a hissy fit in the comments, complaining about how they should grow their channel "Organically" whatever the hell that means.
@@aperson4287 imagine writing a paragraph defending RSL in 2021 lmao
this guy is a chad. making the sponsor a chapter so that you can skip it conveniently
Literally the only time I used this was to get under Wutville with the Scottish resistance to spawn camp
8:21 that was the most relatable clip I've ever seen
The only thing that inspires me to equip the reserve shooter is seeing an enemy solly constantly floating around with his lil parachute.
18:20 I like the way you said "poop" there.
mad respect to the guy saying gj once he finally got him
TH-camr : *gets a subscriber*
Raid Shadow Legends : I SAY I SPONSOR YOU TODAY
I unironically love the B.A.S.E. Jumper on Soldier, mostly because I suck at doing efficient Rocket Jumps, and like that it can extend Rocket Jump momentum a little bit (faster than walking as Soldier). I combine it with Liberty Launcher to reduce both blast damage and fall damage. I will admit almost every other Soldier Secondary is better for the slot, though.
2:41 The ABSOLUTE outplay, the absolute BALLS, the absolute... uh... ABSOLUTE.
My jaw literally drop at the way you avoided that crocket XD
I remember this weapon being extremely overpowered when use by a high level trolldier, now it's not even worth using it.
Valve has this midas touch only any changes would either make it extremely op or very useless
If the trolldier was using the BASE Jumper, he needed a crutch to land MGs and that automatically disqualifies him from being high level.
@@DinnerForkTongue still though, back then if you were already good at market gardening then this item was literally a permanent 195 melee and being able to be faster than scout
It's crutch for if you're casual, but you're an unstoppable force if you're a try hard sweaty competitive player
Have you ever played tf2? How can you come to this stupidest conclusion?
That also happened to a lot of weapons too even underwhelming weapons too , like the bison , the bison used to be just mediocre then it became pretty bad then again became terible and now it became arguably the worst tf2 weapon
The bison makes me sad
@@hardpipedman I stopped playing at around 2016, I still remember how broken this thing was.
I miss ruining the other team's fun with this weapon
I play TF2 really on and off these days, but your videos are always a joy to watch. I really feel like your style has matured over the years and I always look forward to the next one.
I wonder how that engi felt after seeing you leave the game after he took the health pack from you.
Did he think you were overreacting or did he feel guilty?
A bit guilty I guess, especially if his health wasn't low
8:20
FSOAS: Oh man, I'm really low on health. I could use a...
Engineer: mine
FSOAS:...
Engineer:...
FSOAS: rage quit.
*"Fly high son, we've got sentries to destroy"*
I have seen only 20seconds of the video and I already could relate
The cow mangler super shot while floating with the base jumper is actually a good start
*Base Jumper*: Gets nerfed because it was banned in competitive.
*Also Base Jumper*: Still is banned in competitive after nerf.
And people wonder why casual players are angry at comp players for this weapon.
For REAL! THE COMPETITIVE SHILLS LITERALLY NEVER MENTION THIS
@@blueyandicy and yet casual players dont blame valve for the nerfs made for competitve
Because it's valve's fault? Nobody's wanted it to end up how it is now. Valve is just incompetent
It was nerfed due to being unbalanced, a demo could sit in the air raining down stickys and the only thing that could counter him was a heavy focusing him for like 15 seconds or most of the team focusing him down. Its still good on demo, just more counterable now, cant spam undeploy and deploy when a projectile is about to hit you to dodge it cant airstrafe super hard to counter snipers/scouts/pyros.
still good on demo and as for soldier it was already bad on him and still is bad on him so nothing changed there. Its still banned because its still very good for demo
I once told a scout that fish sent me, so he whipped out the holy mackerel and slapped me to death.
No, not really. I haven't played TF2 in years, I just thought the scenario was funny.
Imagine if pyro could replace their melee with the base-jumper so you can just be a Jetpack-Parachute idiot raining fire on everyone. It would totally be inviable but it would be funny as hell.
If you asked Vavle to fix a PC, they would smash it with a hammer & then plug it into the wall and say “I fixed it”
I felt that opening clip holy shit
8:20 this scene speak it's own story
this was painful because of stream chat and the weapon, i cant wait to do the orbital strike thing
11:47 Golly gee, it's almost like Sniper is a broken-ass class or something, huh?
Damn, you're right, I mean it sure would make you look stupid if I killed one with this loadout in literally the very next clip, and several other clips throughout the video but you're right. Because Sniper can kill extremely slow moving targets with limited mobility that have projectiles as their only means of attack very easily, this makes him broken. I will hereby be deleting all of my Sniper items from my backpack.
@@fishstickonastick-gaming Sorry man, everyone's got a hill. This is my hill.
To speak a little more thoroughly on it, what I really think, I suppose, is that I don't think that it's acceptable for a class, regardless of how "good" its handler is, to be able to just look at somebody and say "No no, you have to stop playing until you respawn now." in one click from a range where any retaliation without being that same class is not feasible. Sniper just serves as being the Fun Police because there's no meaningful transaction between a Sniper and any other class aside from Spy other than "Just don't go where the Sniper can point at your head.".
Now, I'm sure you're gonna think this sounds ridiculous, but I have a question. How would you personally feel if all Sniper Rifles were changed into projectile weapons? Fast projectiles, sure (maybe use it to tweak weapons, such as giving the Bazaar Bargain a slower projectile speed, at least until it has all its heads if it must remain a straight upgrade in its user's ideal circumstance for some reason), but now the complication of having to lead one's shot is thrown into the equation instead of it just being mindless hitscan. That Brass Beast Heavy standing in front of the cart is still easy pickings, but now it's much harder to just Alt+F4 a threat that's approaching rapidly.
Also you forgot to Ed-it over the sign image in the bonus clip where it's showing the weapon and whatnot.
@@ThatguycalledJoe If Sniper Rifles were changed to projectile weapons, all that would mean is they turn into Huntsman equivalents. This means the dynamic of the fight changes from "I have seen the Sniper and he sees me" to "The Sniper has already ducked behind a corner and his projectile is in the process of coming towards my face" and when you mix that with the janky Huntsman headshot mechanics that ensure you can get headshots by visibly missing someone's head, what you have is a recipe for disaster. The counterplay doesn't change, the complaints don't change, the only thing that now changes is the Sniper no longer needs to be looking at you in order for you to die. It's called the Lucksman for a reason and that reason is not because it's any more or less fun to fight than the hitscan Sniper Rifles.
@@fishstickonastick-gaming Isn't the Huntsman like that because it's trying to mix headshots with using the target's bounding box to check for a hit? I would hope a projectile Sniper Rifle would be an exception to the rule and just use the actual hitboxes to determine if the shot connected or not.
At the very least it'd probably be worth trying to make the Huntsman just.. not be the way it is, but TF2 has broken collision all over the place so that's hardly a unique problem.
“Hard to deal with a pre nerf base jumper”
Aka, Comp Scunts got mad that they couldn’t do anything to a base jumper soldier. The poor things, my heart truly breaks for em.
More like the sixes morons in general who think it's the most balanced gamemode in the game. (Highlander is still better)
It was nerfed due to being unbalanced, a demo could sit in the air raining down stickys and the only thing that could counter him was a heavy focusing him for like 15 seconds or most of the team focusing him down. Its still good on demo, just more counterable now, cant spam undeploy and deploy when a projectile is about to hit you to dodge it cant airstrafe super hard to counter snipers/scouts/pyros.
still good on demo and as for soldier it was already bad on him and still is bad on him so nothing changed there. Its still banned because its still very good for demo
@@josephg1125 Then why nerf it if it's still going to be banned anyway? The game was never designed for 6v6 and gutting every weapon and rebalancing every mechanic around an alternate gamemode's banlist is stupid
@@MrCoolioPants I literally said it was nerfed due to being OP in any settings not just 6s and gave a detailed explanation as to why.
Might want to actually read the comment your replying to before repeating the braindead nonsense zesty spewed as your reply.
@@MrCoolioPants almost like... valve didn't nerf it for comp and that strawman is completely made up?
the mangler float was by far the most fun and interesting feature of the base jumper and i really want it back
This is why valve shouldn't listen to competitive players when balancing because they will nerf fun weapons like this
Let us pray for the 70 years of getting footage of clips from fishstickonastick gaming
Can't wait to see everyone and their grandma start using Airstrike, Base Jumper, Market Gardener together! I, meanwhile, am working on mastering the Dalokohs Bar.
Funnily enough, I already used both the air strike and the scottish resistance without the jumper before this. The air strike in particular is interesting enough without ever actually jumping with it with the clip snowball mechanic, and when you do the increased clip size and faster firing speed can let you do jumps other launchers just can't.
A Heavy Main's pro tip: Using the Dalokohs Bar with the Fists of Steel effectively gives you 575 health, and can allow you to survive a fully-charged Machina headshot.
You can also use it with the Natascha or Brass Beast to trigger the 20% damage resistance earlier and then use that extra health to judge a situation better.
Anyone who timestamps the end of a sponsor segment deserves person of the century award
Haven’t watched the video but the best way to get kills with the parachute is to get the drop on enemies, or deploy right before hitting to throw them off.
YOU'RE TELLING ME THAT BASE CAN JUMP?
You're getting really good at making the ads entertaining, I watched this one all the way through
Ah yes, the B. A. S. E. jumper, one of the items to get valves special nerf into the ground treatment
Still don't quite understand why the weapon is still banned in 6s. Yeah demo can hover above a point but soldier can often one shot him with the direct hit which is not banned.
I legit had no idea Demo can use the Base jumper...
I feel like you didn't give the Liberty Launcher enough attention on this, I've had some pretty good luck with it. It has similar effects to the air strike (additional rockets, increased attack speed, and reduced damage) while still having proper splash damage, which can be devastating bombing into large groups. You can also get started right away, since it's always a 5 rocket clip.
0:05 "not a design issue, a skill issue"
"Constant Nuisance that just won't die"
You could just pick sniper, or heavy, or engineer, or a pistol/revolver or even a medic if you really trust your crossbow aim since any amount of hitscan just fucking destroyed it.The base jumper was only OP in sixes where you *inexplicably* limit yourself to 4 of the 9 classes, 2 of those 4 classes have access to the base jumper and all four classes either use projectiles or shotguns. In literally every other circumstance you were just sniper fodder or free FJ crits so in literally every other circumstance it wasn't OP. Especially since of both classes that can use it, getting up in the air (and actually do something and not just memes) requires you hurt yourself so you were almost always below 150hp.
Someone talking about the Black Box positively? A miracle!
Comp players banned the parachute because they cant aim upwards at an obvious flying target at mid. What a bunch of clowns.
Bro didn't watch the video
@@cinquine1 This still applies
You could still just shoot the jumper with hitscan
I love the whimsical old music in the first clip, sounds like something out of a silent comedy that perfectly reflects the sheer stupidity of the B.A.S.E jumper
The thing people need to realize the issue wasn't exactly that it was difficult to hit the person using it.
For starters it's a jumping tool, so using it costs health to begin with, but at the same time costs pretty much all of your horizontal mobility, which pretty much cripples your jumps in return from unpredictable movement which doesn't really stop hitscan that much. Also keep in mind that the only tools you'd have would be rockets or stickies, so you're either at a distance where your damage is low due to falloff, or just waiting for stickies to travel, on top of being a target when you try to shoot.
Why was it nerfed then?
Apparently due to how dominant Scout was in the comp meta, there were so many complaints about how effectively it countered scout that Valve nerfed it. Which is why it's still banned. No one cared that you could avoid shots. They cared that Scout couldn't kill you. That's it. That's why it's still banned. That "hover over mid without retaliation" part. That part that makes no sense in any context. Yeah. That.
You could literally counter it hard by just playing sniper or heavy. But those classes are not meta in 6s so everything has to be changed. IMO, competitive players whining has ruined many of the fun weapons of tf2 and even when they have been catered too they still have the weapons disabled, effectively just changing it for causal players.
So it was nerfed because it position soldiers and demos outside of a scout's ranges.... I'm pretty sure a smart person know that changing classes is an option if they are a annoying, like a sniper or a heavy or hell even a spy can take care of a base jumper soldier and demos
Sixes...ruins...everything
this kind of balancing is nothing new, people will hate on a meta constantly, but they will dig there heels into the mud to make sure it stays alive, ranging from literally make a weapon that leaves the soldier exposed to easy damage from any hitscan weapon in the game, of which everyone except demo and medic has at least one
It was nerfed due to being unbalanced, a demo could sit in the air raining down stickys and the only thing that could counter him was a heavy focusing him for like 15 seconds or most of the team focusing him down. Its still good on demo, just more counterable now, cant spam undeploy and deploy when a projectile is about to hit you to dodge it cant airstrafe super hard to counter snipers/scouts/pyros.
still good on demo and as for soldier it was already bad on him and still is bad on him so nothing changed there. Its still banned because its still very good for demo
Adorable and heartwarming video. Starlight has learned a lot from Twilight and her friends. We’re all proud of her.
People barging in, breaking my spawn door: We've got you surounded! Come rebalance all your weapons to fit niche competetive meta!
Me, covering behind resuply locker, grasping my pan: I HATE THE TF2 COMPETETIVE COMMUNITY! I HATE THE TF2 COMPETETIVE COMMUNITY!!!
The base jumper actually works suprisingly well with the cow mangler, as it allows for much more speed and mobility using charge shots, and allows you to shoot one out of nowhere at the enemy team by floating around above them
I know your comment is 1 year old and that youve realized this now, but the enemy team might just see you floating in the air and shred you down so badly its worse than Jose Rizal's death
The base jumper wasn't broken. It was only "broken" in 6v6 competitive (the worst way to play the game) because the meta doesn't permit heavies and engineers to counter it. Once again something fun died in the name of "competitive balance."
Most things that are "over powered" in 6v6 aren't in 12v12 simply because larger team sizes allows for more classes to be played. But hey, it's not like valve designed TF2 to be a 12v12 game from the ground up or anything :)
watch HiGPS' video showing the original base jumper in a pub. it definitely needed a nerf. the only reason people disagree is because they never saw someone actually abusing the insane air accel values and infinite redeploys back in the day
i like how he just quits after the engie takes the health pack
Who honestly cares about comp balancing? Fuck comp.
Competitive 6s "Use anything other than 2 scouts 2 soldiers 1 demo 1 medic 5 CP challenge" (impossible).
It is really hard to hit someone with a lot of air mobility...when you exclusively use shotguns and projectiles. The base jumper never should have been nerfed.
They actually run sniper somewhat frequently and engi heavy can be seen on last. Also pyro is sometimes used to stop ubers
nah, Raid Shadow Maggots is better
The ragequit when the engie stole your health pack... priceless
Fun fact, for two main uses of this item, it can be replaced by source bugs.
The fall damage? If you crouch at the perfect time, you don't take fall damage in normal gameplay because source gets confused.
Extending a garden? Bunny hopping may not make you faster, but source still thinks you're never touched the floor.
If there is anything that bad weapon academy thought me, it's that we should abandon all special weapons and use stock instead
No, I'm not going to play Raid: Shadow Legends. Don't ask me again until the game has a title that was written by an actual human being instead of that A.I. that Keaton Patti made.
8:21 best interaction ever
The B.A.S.E Jumper is a great example of a weapon that didn't deserve a nerf, was still nerfed because "too good in competitive", then the weapon remains banned in competitive, and is mostly worthless in Casual. poggers
reddit
It was nerfed due to being unbalanced, a demo could sit in the air raining down stickys and the only thing that could counter him was a heavy focusing him for like 15 seconds or most of the team focusing him down. Its still good on demo, just more counterable now, cant spam undeploy and deploy when a projectile is about to hit you to dodge it cant airstrafe super hard to counter snipers/scouts/pyros.
still good on demo and as for soldier it was already bad on him and still is bad on him so nothing changed there. Its still banned because its still very good for demo
where did comp players complain about the item at all? where did valve say they listened to their feedback at all? the nerf was in jungle inferno after valve comp was already abandoned. it's nerf was because of how insane your movement could be if you had half a brain and knew how to actually air strafe
@@josephg1125 it's unbanned now in etf2l lol
The base jumper and the airstrike will always make me feel like a hacker, floating in the air firing a million rockets at clueless people