Should You Buy A "Homage" Watch?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 ก.ย. 2024
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Are homage watches worth it? In this homage watches explained video, I answer the question "what is a homage watch?" I also compare homage vs fake watches and replicas. Should you buy one instead of a luxury watch like Rolex? Hopefully, this video will help you out.
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Ben's Watch Club tends to cover affordable watches like Seiko, Timex, Casio, Citizen, MVMT, Vincero, Bulova, Orient, Hamilton, and more. We rarely feature luxury watches like Rolex, Patek Philippe, Breitling, Tag Heuer, Tudor, Grand Seiko, Cartier, Omega, Audemars Piguet, or Hublot due to their price.
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bitly link is 404 for me currently
can you update your favorite affordable watches...
Hey Ben, do you know of an affordable watch that looks similar to the Cartier Santos?
+1 for broken link. Looks interesting and will have a look but wanted to follow your link. I'll just have to watch another bwc video and try there
@@neikimtv coming soon 👍
Counterfeit/fake example: A person signs someone else's name to a legal document, trying to pass as that other person. Homage example: A person closely imitates another person's appearance and/or behavior but makes no claim of being that other person and in fact openly maintains his or her actual identity. The first is illegal; the second is not.
Whatever you want to tell yourself justifying wearing a fake
Design patents exist.
@@mstcrow5429 Yes, but breaches of patent are quite easily avoided by making a few subtle changes. No breach of patent, no law broken. It doesn't matter what you or I think of this; the fact is the "homage" companies have good lawyers who know just how far they can go.
@@rangersmith4652 Wasn't trying to make a legal determination. Just OP seemed to be unaware of them.
@@williamwallace9427 If a watch clearly and boldly wears the brand name "Pagani Design" or "San Martin" and varies just a bit from some other watch's design, it's legally not a fake. Your opinion on this is irrelevant; what matters is the law. Morality being subjective, legality is the only criterion by which this can be objectively judged. A year ago I was gifted a fake Rolex Daytona, and not a very good one. It bears the Rolex logo, etc. but is clearly not a Rolex. I keep it around as a curiosity, but I never wear it because I know it is an illegal fake.
For those who look down their noses at Homage watches, I have this for them to consider: The Rolex Daytona is a homage of the Omega Speedmaster and the Rolex Submariner is a homage of the Blancain 50 fathoms.
I mean the video is about more 'questionable' homages also wasn't the speedy itself a rodania homage
🟥🟥🟥Indeed, Rolex registered the models of its brand, but the existing designs from other brands such as Blackpain, Omega, Tavannes among other brands. This video is the best example that a TH-camr does not know about watches, which is why he asks about demands from big brands, the reality is different. Greetings.🟥🟥🟥
The Nautilus is an Homage of the Piaget Polo
lmao the sub was the first dive watch blancplain’s marketing bs has everyone convinced otherwise apparently
@@fezzes428
The Rolex Submariner is from 1953 and other brands already had submariner watches before, such as Tudor, Seiko and the Omega Marine from 1932. Go study.
I own a pagani batman Rolex gmt homage and for around $120 it’s a hell of a watch. Good quality, good bracelet, clean markers, good sapphire, decent movement, bezel, solid end links, etc. Obviously I’d prefer the real deal but I can’t afford $10k. Good video
I as well own a couple of Pagani watches. I also have Rolex, Tudor, longlines, Omega. The Pagani has been as good a daily wear as any other. Any watch has its propose. I love em all. And have even turned fakes into decent daily wear watches and removed fake markers.
You'd feel even worse if that $10K watch was stolen off you in the street.
I most likely tells the time more dependable. I kept one of the "real " ones to remind me never to spend more than 1k on a watch.
Same I own homage watches because I can invest my money in better ways and also I don't mind getting the look without having to worry when i bang it all over the place.
Those cheap Chinese GMT movements are notorious for breaking, I’d steer clear of them.
Some of you guys care so much about what other people think of you it’s insane. Buy whatever you prefer and can afford instead of what you think makes you look cool or respectable. If that’s a Rolex, great; San Martin, fantastic. Buy watches because YOU love them, not to impress everyone else.
I buy watches because I like them, not because I have a chronic need to feel validated or an ego boost.
Well said!
fr watch geeks sometimes take things way too serious, at the end of the day its someone else's watch and theyre enjoying their purchase no need to shame them
True, I've got a pagani design (PD-1731) that was apparently a Grand Seiko homage or something. I had no idea at all, I just liked the smaller size and design and the price seemed good for the movement and materials involved. I did not want to flash I just liked it that's all. Do not overthink this too much...
These are people who primarily attach or base their personality on their material possession/s. It's kind of sad.
I agree. But my question is why buy an homage if you aren't looking for validation? There are an almost infinite number of affordable options that offer similar design elements, but are still original in their own right. Citizen, Seiko, Orient, Casio, Tissot, all have huge catalogs, and not one of their watches are a dimension by dimension copy of another more "famous" watch.
For the money I spend on a Pagani, I got a Seagull 1963 with a real life column wheel chronograph movement that is mesmerizing to watch.
It's not trying to be a Speedy, or a Royal Oak. And no one will mistake it for one. But seeing a column wheel chrono in action without spending $5,000 is a treat.
No one will mistake my 1963 with anything else, but I will tell you one thing. It has more in common with the actual Speedmaster that made it to the moon than a Pagani Design Fake Speedy does. Heck, it's closer to what went on the moon than my Bulova Lunar Pilot.
The difference between an Homage and a Fake, to me, is intent. A Pagani Design isn't trying to trick you into believing it's an ACTUAL Rolex. It's honest about what it is. Whereas a clone is trying to trick you into thinking it's the ACTUAL thing. It's the deception that makes the difference to me.
I have multiple paganis, but I would never buy an actual clone.
No. They absolutely are trying to fool people. Unless you are less than 12 inches away you aren’t going to see the different logo
@@williamwallace9427 they arent fooling anyone that can read. If someone is honestly stupid enough to think that they are getting the genuine article for what Pagani gets for a watch than that is on them!
Honest ? They call themselves Pagani Design. But don't design anything themselves. Just stealing design's from other more famous brands.
@@MrPleers 100% true
@@williamwallace9427 He meant Pagani isn't trying to fool the buyer. But honestly, do you really care if strangers will recognize that you have a Rolex (or a fake one) from a distance? Many people can't even read an analog watch or list more than 3 watch brands, let alone recognize a submariner.
"Many people will see the difference?" I don't think so!😂
Wearing an homage shows u truly appreciate Watch design in my eyes
Overpriced watches are scams. "Stealing" overpriced watch designs is always ethical.
There's a similar thing in the fashion business, too, I think, with the cheaper end of the market selling copies of designs by exclusive brands. As with Rolex copies, this doesn't seem to make those who want the real thing feel that they're getting something less exclusive (you might have imagined it could "cheapen" a design to see it being worn by loads of people). Collectors may well have watches that straddle multiple price ranges, so possibly feel more conflicted than the majority of buyers. If you might someday get the real thing, do you really want a cheap copy? Probably not.
Actually wearing my Invicta Pro Diver while watching this. I've had it for nearly 2 years and never misses a beat.
I got it precisely because I like the Submariner look but I refuse to spend thousands on a watch.
Plus, Invicta has legit heritage of it's own, along with the reputable Seiko movement.
Yeah nice watch i have one , and a big grand diver .Good price for a well made watch . And the steeldive capt willard is a classic.
The problem for me is that there are just no alternatives for 40mm divers at the sub 300 dollar market. I tried the Orient Kamasu, but I found that the 42mm diameter is still too big for my wrist.
I ended up buying the Invicta Pro Diver. While I would have prefered, if they chose to go for different clock hands, a different bezel and mybe a smaller l2l distance, it is still the best option at that pricepoint.
However, I went for a chocolate brown dial. A color that you cannot get at a Rolex sub (yes, there are a few vintage watches, but really rare). Because of that, Rolex experts know from a distance that I do not wear a real Submariner. I mainly wear it as a fashion piece because the combination of a brown dial with a beige nato strap just looks really nice.
I can recommend this watch for what it is. Although if you have the choice, go for the Invicta Pro Diver with the Omega bezel because that version is not a 1:1 knockoff as it combines features of the Rolex Submariner and the Omega Seamaster.
Save a tiny bit more than $300 and get a 39mm Steinhart Ocean One. Or try and find one second hand for less.
They have a wide variety of colors and dial/bezel variants. If you're into vintage looking divers, also check out Gnomon's "exclusive" Steinharts which are all in 39mm and offer designs that Steinhart themselves don't sell. The quality and value for money of these watches are pretty much unbeatable. My wrist is also too small for 42mm divers, but those 39mm Ocean Ones look pretty much perfect on me (17cm wrist).
When I was 12 years old I wore one of my dads old watches to school and broke it. He wasn't too mad, it had been in his watch box for 30 years and he never wore it. However, it was a mid-50's Blancpain that he bought brand new in Miami when he had a boat down there.
Two years ago I told a friend that story and he suggested I could find one online. That particular model is listing for about $30K so thank you very much STEELDIVE- I'll have that one, please.
Almost two years on and that little 'homage' is running great. It's one of the only watches I own that draws an occasional compliment too. We all know how nice THAT is! It's not an exact copy either. It's probably better than the original... sapphire, ceramic etc. It keeps to around +2 per day
Finally, regardless of what a vintage "FF" goes for today those watches were $65 US dollars when they sold brand new. I paid 4X that for a Chinese made "homage."
I wonder if a channel like Wristwatch Revival would feature something like this on his channel. He does do people’s watches from time to time, but I’m not sure if it’s exclusive to Patrions. You could also try to find a watch maker to see if that watch is repairable and for how much.
@@tinyman392
Not for anything even close to the price of even an excellent homage.
@@tinyman392 -I did not inherit that watch because my dad sold it at a yard sale in the 1980's. I hope whoever bought it brought it back to life, but the closest i am going to get is a homage.
I have a local watchmaker I've taken a few pieces to for repair. I got a good deal a year or so ago on an old Rolex that wasn't running and he brought it back for $150.00 but he told me the '3rd. wheel' might be a problem in the future. besides the fact it's radioactive.
@@swilkobarfingtoniii1642 Oof, that's too bad; I was still hoping that either your dad or you still had the watch. Glad you found a watch maker that gives you a good deal though :) As long as you don't lick the dial, I think you'll be fine from the radioactivity :p
@@tinyman392 Now you tell me? Watchlicker sounds like an Aphex Twin track! Or maybe a TH-cam channel... :P
Watch nerds who might spot a clone at the drop of a hat are rife here on the internet but not in real life. Not long ago at a party I was talking to a watch enthusiast who sported a rose gold IWC and professed to know a lot about watches (he did). Then he looked at my watch and said, quite confidently, "you're wearing a Rolex aren't you?". It was a quartz Tissot PRX with mint green dial......
Great topic! Lots of “interesting” comments. I bought a Ginault Silent Service about a year ago because I wanted the look, the feel and the dimensions of a sub, and it’s really satisfied that need. And by the way, in all the years I’ve been into watches, not one person has ever commented on one, unless I directly ask them what they think. But it IS important to me that people like the look of what I’m wearing (like my clothes and appearance in general) and I suppose that’s my problem. But impressing people is honestly the farthest thing from my mind.
1. IP have time limits, you dont need to pay Beethoven for playing his song in public, 2. Pagani stole from Tudor, Tudor stole from Rolex, Rolex stole from Blancpain, who owns what is hard to prove. In any case they all copied the design of a round dial, 3 hands and 12 markers. Rolex have done very well with 'borrowed' design ideas without paying anything, why should anyone be concerned with Pagani Design? The bottom line is that homages are legit. I have yet to see a watch that does not copy design elements from another watch.
I love them simply because they fit my philosophy of wearing the homage/ripoff on a daily basis without having to worry about nonsense like it getting dinged up, stolen, etc. then wearing the real thing when it suits the occasion.
My own opinion of why I love pagani design watches & it is now my favorite brand than my seiko is that they are a joy to purchase because the price is outstanding & unbeatable... Even if I have the money to purchase the rolex I will still buy pagani design & seiko.. I love the look & design of rolex & other crazy expensive brands but I hate the price even if the time comes that I can afford to buy one I will still not... With seiko & pagani design I will enjoy wearing it & looking at it without feeling guilty of spending a fortune & without feeling scared of scratching it, losing it or braking it all the time... I want to wear things with peace of mind & just enjoy it...
Simple answer: Why not?
I would stick with higher end ones (San Martin, Steinhart, etc) because you'll be getting a very nice watch in its own right - not just a look-alike to the unobtainium original you want.
Personally, I prefer homages to historical designs like, say, the Rolex Milsub. That thing is so rare and has been out of production for so long and there hasn't been anything in the Rolex line-up resembling it for literally decades. So if you want that design on your wrist, your only options are homages or a real one - if you can afford to spend $100,000+ on an old wrist-watch.
Sadly, with Rolex prices and availability being what they have been for the last 10 or 20 years, I can totally understand someone wanting an homage to a current Submariner. Heck, I own both a Steinhart OVM 39 and their O1 Ceramic Green 39 and I'm very happy with both of them. I could probably have gotten pretty decent fake Rolex watches for the money, but I simply couldn't live with wearing a fake. At least with an homage, you're not pretending to have the genuine article on your wrist.
I love what Lorier does as a micro brand. I ordered a falcon 3 from Lorier because it is a true homage of 3 vintage references, the Omega Railmaster, Seiko Aplinist, and Rolex Explorer. For me if I am going to buy a homage, it has to be referencing multiple watches and watches that cannot be obtained anymore.
I get your point and I agree, but...I found a Tisell Explorer...with tolless bracelet adjustment...and it's so thin and well-fitting...I just couldn't resist. I would have gone for it even if it wasn't a current Rolex Explorer copy, but there's no denying that the first step on my purchase was an Epxlorer video by Adrian Barker...
👍👍👍
@@vaclav_fejt I just can’t bring myself to buy a full on copy homage of an explorer. I’d rather save the money to get a 114270 or buy a Smiths Everest. Also, Traska has a super good looking Explorer type watch in both 36mm and 39mm that’s pretty unique compared to most homages.
@@Dialandhands Interesting options. If the Smiths was available with my local retailers, I would have considered it. Traska has just one thing that puts me off - that hour hand.
We'll see. If I ever go for something better, I'll get a Seiko or a Christopher Ward...maybe...
For that money you can get an actual alpinist
I would think Casio G shock is the most "hommaged" watch brand, since I was a kid in the 80's you had a ton of ripoffs at the drugstore or every 7 eleven counter stand of 5$ watches...
One reason I would consider a homage watch despite being able to afford the real thing is the way you are treated at ADs or boutiques. You can register build a relationship, your contact leaves, you are added to someone else's list who is more interested in her phone than you, criteria later change and you are looked down at by a salesperson. Its killing the luxury experience you have worked for. If you want to buy to wear and have the look then homage is the way and use the money elsewhere more important than watches. Another reason are some of the grotesque prices for things that have a cost of production significantly lower. The above is not Rolex - as we all know the score there
When the San Martin AliExpress store gives you are more dignified buying experience than Rolex, THE watch brand, then it's no wonder people make fun of those buying luxury watches,
@@Alias_Anybody Let's be real here, luxury watch high horsee here are just masking their monetary superiority with appreciation of horology and blah blah, not they actually appreciate paying 100x for a 99% similarity thing.
“Proud” Pagani Design GMT Master II owner here. I bought it to test the waters, to know how it would feel to wear my grail watch. The novelty wore out quickly, and every time I looked at it, it reminded me that I’m not wealthy enough to afford a Rolex GMT Master II. On paper, the specs are good (GMT, threaded crown, sapphire crystal…) but the whole package is an absolute disaster: the movement is a Chinese Pearl whatever that stopped ticking when the watch was face down a few months down the line. The bezel, loose and rackety. Misaligned cyclops. The jubilee bracelet links bound. The lugs and the clasp had dangerously sharp corners to the point that I didn’t let a friends daughter play with it (she played with my Casios). The springbars were borderline inoperable and of course there’s no drilled lugs. They took my 100-120€, but they won’t again. All in all, not worth the money.
You have nothing to be proud about wearing a knock off
@@williamwallace9427 keep malding
Keep wishing you could buy a real one
@@williamwallace9427 how is that a bad thing ?
I have owned so many homage watches it the past 10 years I just can't keep track. I know what I like and if I am not sure it will fit have bought a homage to see what is what. It have saved me a fortune! Lots of great watches won't fit my wrist and in the case of Zenith, links are impossible to find!
I think the clomage brands are really great for people just getting into the hobby who haven't yet experienced "high end" features like sapphire crystal, solid end links, milled clasps, and screwed endlinks. I don't buy clomages anymore, but I started my watch journey with Pagani Design and understand just how nice those things are!
I can only explain my own feeling. In 1966 my brother bought an Omega watch & I envied him. Now I see Pagani watches online & I now see the most wonderful watches with very good Mechanical and Quartz movements. I believe that I should try to forget that there usually is a similar watch to each one. Might I add they are usualy expensive. That way I'II enjoy each watch I buy.
Another evergreen video Ben - brilliant move there is no one I would rather have doing this !
Great video as always Ben! A quick note on the legal aspect of homages (at least in the U.S.). Under trademark law you cannot trademark "fashion designs" since trademarks only protect brand names, logos, and phrases. Fashion design is also not copyrightable. So it's not necessarily a grey area, designs are just not protected under the law. Same goes for clothing brands that copy the style of luxury brands (except the name/logo).
How about car designs? I was wondering why we don’t see Ferrari homage cars.
@@victorvelazquez I believe a car's design can be protected through design patents. A design patent covers the ornamental aspects of a useful object. So these design patents are meant to protect aesthetic and not functional elements; in regards to watches I believe shape, size, crowns, etc. can all be considered "functional" which is why I don't think many (if any) watches have design patents.
@@ceja1500 Thanks. That makes sense!
Exactly. Even with a little wiggle room, it would be a civil trial which means ALL Rolex business practices would be fair game - they’d get embarrassed.
99% of people don’t care nor do they have a clue what is on your wrist. If the guts are good, feels good and looks good?! Who cares who’s coat tail.
Homage watches are a good way to develop taste and try variety, especially in the early stages of watch collecting.
How many of us really get the chance to try check out, let alone living with, a Rolex Daytona on wrist and see what it would be like. Even if you can't afford it, it's sometimes good to get an idea of what you're missing out on. Sometimes we hold certain watches in such high regard that we overromantize the whole thing and forget that in the end 'it's just a watch'. There is times that I couldn't wait for a certain watch to arrive (mostly original designs) only to not actually be that enamored by it and it ends up at the back of the drawer. I've learned a lot of things about my preferences by purchasing many many watches. And you can't really do that if you use all of your watch budget on a single Rolex watch. And one of the most fun things about watch collecting, if you ask me, is the journey. I might have had my shared fun of reps and homages, but now I'm at a stage where I just mostly prefer Micro Brands (e.g. Baltic, Zelos, RZE, etc).
How about wearing original designs from affordable brands?? I don’t believe you need to buy a copy Daytona to find out if you like chronographs or a copy submariner to see if you like divers, there are so many options available that for me it is not justifiable to wear a clone watch, since I started collecting watches I wanted a Rolex sub but started buying Seiko, orient, Tissot, mido, longines, Oris, Hamilton, Tudor and finally arrived at a point where I can afford Rolex and own 5 at the moment, no matter how anyone tries to spin it wearing “homages (straight up copies)” is never justifiable.
@@sergiogarcia9822 for me homages are a novelty. A fun gag item. And they're sorta priced accordingly. It's like dressing up at halloween. Maybe you're pretending to be Zombie Elvis. Are you actually Zombie Elvis? No, that would be ridiculous. But you're having fun with the idea of it. To me it is similar and I didn't end up wearing most Pagani Design watches more than once even. One could argue my Seiko Prospex Speedtimer is a Daytona rip-off, it doesn't take a Pagani Design to do evoke that sorta response. Probably most watches from the same make in my like 40, 50... (+?) collection are from Seiko or Casio and I did say I like Micro Brands, which mostly are pretty unique designs.
One of my favourite watches to wear on the daily is the Nodus Sector Pilot Phantom as I found out due to my irregular work I really have come to appreciate a day-date complication and the jubilee style bracelet which I had my reservations about turned out very classy and comfortable (something I also appreciate on my Seiko SSK GMT). I like different watches for different occasions, moods, outfits etc. I love my Seiko Presage Houjou Star Bar dress watch. I like the exotic dials on my Zelos watches. I love Titanium watches (etc the new Baltic Aquascaphe or various RZE models). In the summer I wore my yellow BT version of the G-SHOCK GA-B2100 a lot because I'm not afraid of ruining it during various watersport activities and I don't ever have to set it, because it's always 'go time!' when I grab it. That's what I meant... enjoy the journey.
That might include homages. In my case homages can be regarded as a 'phase'. There's a very low threshold to get into. The designs are proven (albeit by other brands) with global recognition and appreciation. They're just sooo affordable. It's a good accelerator for anyone's watch journey to develop the tastebuds, get a feel for watch sizes, different styles (visually, not 'well dúh it's a chronograph (or diver), what did you expect') etc which I'm sure in most cases leads down a path far away from homages.
In my case I now like things I haven't really seen before. An actual Rolex Submariner would bore me to death (in general I don't care much for Rolex; I only really like the reverse Panda Daytona and the early 50's Milgauss). My latest and biggest purchase to date was a close to $3k Ball Watch Co. 00RED limited edition (1 of 91). Which such a vast collection I probably could've had a small collection of luxury watches as well, but I honestly don't think I can argue I need a watch that is much more expensive than a Tudor BB58. Especially in this day and age where it gets dangerous actually wearing your luxury timepieces like you ought and should be able to. I get far more enjoyment from the vast variety and if getting a couple of homage watches in the beginning all lead to that, then great. Would I recommend people to skip that phase altogether? Probably. For me they've served their purpose and I now have no use for them. But I don't think it's tabu if someone still goes that route.
@@sergiogarcia9822 And I personally think the price of a Rolex isn't justifiable. And I think a homage watch is as harmless as a cover song. Luckily for both of us, we don't owe each other any justifications. No matter how anyone tries to spin it.
@@shiznuts Well, all the brands you mentioned are too expensive for what I would like to spend on a watch; they're all over 150€! IN my "fun" collection of around 15 watches, half of them homage watches, I have nothing over 100€.
J’en ai achète une et franchement rien à redire. Pour le prix la qualité est là, question rendu au poignet, aucune différence avec l’original, le fonctionnement est tout à fait correct… en plus pas besoin d’être sur une liste d’attente pendant des années et de dépenser une fortune. Moi je dis un grand merci à Pagani.
I claim that I have the ultimate homage...A SKMEI Nautilus homage...ten bucks and surprisingly handsome and cleanly made...only several hundred thousand dollars cheaper than a Patek Phillipe original.
Homages are better than the originals and bring back styles not readily nor affordably available from the original maker. I just bought a Steeldive 1972 for $95 after rebates from AliExpress. It has superior lume, Seiko NH36 movement, sapphire crystal, looks nice, and is extremely accurate. Why buy a name brand like the Seiko that is nearly identical but costs 5 times more and does not have as good lume so it offers less? Or a Sinn for 25 times more? Or an Omega for 50 times more? Or a Rolex for possibly 200 times more? These more famous watch brands charge too much for what they offer. Not too many people care what watch is on your wrist. And here I sit with a superior watch that cost $95. Buy whatever makes you feel good reader. To me, watches are a tool to know the day, date, and time and I do enjoy that it looks nice. The Steeldive 1972 has everything I need and want.
Agree 100% ... I just bought the SD 1970 for $106 from Ali and love it.
I think that Pagani Design Explorer looks great, and I don't mind admitting that I'm never going to be able to afford a Rolex. I'd have no problem telling people that it isn't a Rolex (no one would expect me to have a Rolex). Name me a watch that looks something like that, at that kind of price, that isn't a direct clone and I might consider it, but I'm really thinking of getting one of those Pagani's.
Last I checked, I haven’t won the lottery or came into a lot of money so original watch brands are out of my wheel house. I have a Heimdallr Captain Willard homage. I was very impressed with how well it’s made. I also have good experience with their customer service.
I would never get a fake watch. But I have a few homages. San Martin and Steinhart.
And I consider to get a Pagani.
The quality is very high for the price and an option for those who cannot afford the price of a car to get a watch, but still get a feeling of carrying a luxuary model.
I love my Steinhart 39 almost solely because I hate the case shape of the modern Submariner, both the current and the previous. The 39mm case to me is perfect, the lugs are nice and skinny, and the lume triangle is a lot more legible in the dark than the pip on the Rolex. It does enough unique things to be proud of itself, and I feel confident wearing it.
I feel the same about my Certina DS action diver 38. Although some people have mistaken it for an actual submariner, I like to believe mine is unique
I'm not a fan of "homage"-watches. They just feel like cheap rip-offs. I rather don't own a design i like, than knowing i own a copy. It just does not feel right. But people collecting these homages rather buy 10 of these than getting 2 proper watches with an original design.
And the excuse of "The real one is too expensive".... Yes, it is if you want one tomorrow. But I just save up for my grailwatch. Knowing very well that it will take me years. But in the end, I got the watch I really want. Instead of wearing a clone that reminds me all the time of that watch I would rather be wearing.
@@MrPleers Couldn't agree more. It's also beter for your money.. It is better to invest in stuff that holds it's value than buying a bunch of ripoff-watches that are just wasted money because nobody will ever give you a dollar for it. So the "The real one is too expensive" is actually not just an excuse for poor buying-habits it's also a real waste of money. I stopped buying garbage a few years ago. Clothing, Accessory... (hell i even buy books in their hardcover-format or limited editions) because when i spend my money i want some worth in exchange. Now when i'm getting rid of something i sell it ob eBay and i usually get more money back than i invested for the product i enjoyed for long enough. (Except Clothing but it's better to get a few dollars back from a quality product than throwing away your stuff for nothing)
Imo the invicta pro diver is a good example of how a homage watch should be. Its both distinctly a submariner and also proudly its own thing
The logo on the side is atrocious tho. I have one and I itch to sand off that logo to make it look less jarring
Oddly enough, it was a submariner homage that got me interested in watches again. So, in that respect, I can't knock'em too much.
Homages are not something new, you can find a lot of Rolex lookalikes from well known brands from the 60s and so on.
You touched this point and that's the case when the homage is of a watch that is no longer in production for a long time and which design is not used anymore by the original manufacturer. In this case I prefer to use the term re-creation instead of homage and I own three such watches: An Air King 5500 Explorer from Mathey -Tissot, a 1016 from Smiths and a 37mm 62MAS from San Martin. I don't have a problem with buying and wearing re-creations of abandoned models. I do however feel uncomfortable buying copies of current watches.
When I wear my now vintage Tudor prince oysterdate submariner most people think it's a cheap Rolex hommage and don't know ish about Tudor's history or name 😂
It is the most perfect hommage "no-flex" piece...
the reason why I will never crap on replicas or homage watches, is because I grew up in a dangerous part of the world where, you would end up dead if you had an expensive watch on your wrist, but it was also the fact that most luxury watches cost more than a car or even a house in some cases. So my mum would buy me replicas or fake watches for 100ksh( around a dollar) and I still remember the smile on her face when she would see me wear my Adididas or Radid watches to school or social functions. we all knew it was fake and a cheap replica, but it was all she could afford and to me they were like the real deal, and in turn made me love watches. And for that reason they will always hold a special place in my heart.
It is a subject of where any of us drows the line really. I personally would not wear a watch than mimics a luxury watch that is on sale today. Wearing a rolex homage would make me feel cheap. I own an air king and i can appreciate its overall greatness and originality. But i am on the verge to buy a steeldive sd1970 and use it as a daily beater . I mean its a great watch for the price specwise and on the finishing part and it mimics an old 70's seiko which was a beater watch itshelf. The new seiko costs 1200 euros which are a hell lot of money for a turtle. Even the lowest turtle seiko is at 400 euros, give me a break! If i want to spend that money on a watch it would be something more special like a PRX or a Hamilton, not a turtle diver - beater. I'm not saying these are bad watches but if they would charge 250 - 300 euros i would consider it, but 400 for the cheapest one feels like a scam. In that instance i prefer the 100 euros steeldive.
Steeldive Willard FTW!
I have a Steeldive Captain Willard and a Addiesdive " tuna can ".... They're so cool. 😊
Had a few cheapo homages in the past but inevitably I ended up selling them on. Fortunately I've always got back what I paid. Pretty much done with them now but I still have a couple of San Martins that I'll hang onto as the quality is pretty decent.
san martin, heimdallr and helm make great homage watches. zelos are good in a way that its their own design
Agreed
what about hand made homage watches like SEIKOTONAs and all the other modded seikos made as a tribute to the original model ?
So I have a 'Root Beer' homage watch from Pagani, not because I want to just rip from Rolex, but it's my grail watch and as a 22yr old Kitchen hand, probably never going to be inside my reach. The difference to a counterfit is that those make it harder to find the original's and ensure yours is real, so they actually negatively impact the watch community. At least, as a new watch guy, that's my take. Great video though!
I couldn’t decide between a Submariner, a Yachtmaster, Explorer 1, GMT Master 2, Explorer 2 and didn’t have 70 grand spare to try them all out, but managed to get close enough for £600 for the lot. Now I can spend a bit of time deciding which I like best and whether I really want to buy one.
Some counterpoints:
-I've got a very good idea of how much wear my watches take and I'm uncomfortable with subjecting a $5000 to what I regard as everyday wear, also I'd never buy any watch to be a safe queen
-There are a lot of microbrands that offer original designs with great specs but they do intentionally low volume runs to drive up demand and brand value even if they tend to competitively priced
-Seiko, Orient and even some original microbrands are very slow to catch on to the demand for smaller watches. A few models that's heavily copied just fall into this sweet spot. But imagine the hype if seiko brings out a 5kx but in a SKX013 size.
The usage of "Homage" within watch culture is entirely cynical and is used to normalize the sale of cheap copies of original designs. Homage within other medium(film, poetry, photography, literature) is a reference to a past work and is done as a sign of respect. Very often deploying homage is only for those who are deeply invested in a body of work and knows it's history. What is often called homage in watch culture is just a blatant copy and is done solely for profit.
Depends. I think the Casioak has a certain homage to the Royal Oak but remains very much unique. We need to call clone homages for what they are: Rebadged replicas.
Homage watches are great vacation watches. 👌
Homages are always lame.. as are the people that wear them
@williamwallace9427 only an uncool wanna be snob would say such a thing.
Ben, thanks for posting a really uesfull video. I would really like an origanal Dirty Dozen WWW but for now its a bit more of a dream and so i have been looking for a homage. Im trying to decied if the Baltany is the way to go or if there is anything else that I should consider. I have been finding it a bit of a minefield as there are so many homages its somwhat hard to know where its worth spending the your money.
I would love to see a video talking about affordable alternative historical (perticuaerly ww2) watches next from Bens Watch Club!
Got a pagani design speedmaster in the new swatchcolorways, steel construxeand a better crystal bracelet and movement all for less than half the price of a moonswatch
Big middle finger to swatch on this
I love homage watches. Because it gives the look you like and the price you love.
If homage companies like PD San Martin were copying 100 percent i would think a rolex or any other company would sue for counterfeiting.
If they sue for counterfeiting that would be kind of like acknowledging that the homages are good enough to convince people not to buy the real thing. I think companies like Rolex which makes a great product that certainly costs more to make market and sell than a San Martin does not want to let the thought creep into people’s minds that maybe just maybe the cost of making a Rolex is closer to the price of a San Martin than to its MSRP, and a lawsuit would basically have to argue just that, because if Rolex is doing something magically with stainless steel (which is what they want you to believe) then San Martin or whoever should be no threat to them so long as they don’t use their logo because it should be obviously inferior because you couldn’t possibly make a Rolex for that price.
I have a steinhart ocean one a it looks like a submariner but has its own case shape ETA 2824 -2 movement sapphire glass solid link bracelet is Swiss made a bargain at 460 euro all the looks of a rolex but I can wear it instead of locking it in a safe
I once for a modding project ordered from AliExpress one "Clone Homage" as You put it. According to the images it was supposed to be "Sterile", ie. with no markings of the manufacturer, but the watch I received was a full blown fake!
I was screwed royally as nowhere in the sales text they used even the "codewords" for a fake, like "With LOGO". The fake logo was everywhere: on the Dial, Case and the Bracelet. Even the Crown had fake logo.
Quite a bust.
I own over 230 watches ranging in price from 15 to 200k dollars. With that said, I bought a bunch of these Pagani watches. I wear them to work, the beach, the pool, to the gym and all have held up great and the best part is if you lose it or break it, you toss it in the trash and get a new one!!!
I’ve bought two homages from Ali Express, a submariner and the captain Willard. I couldn’t fault the watches to be honest, great quality and great value but I just don’t enjoy wearing them. They sit in my collection and I never wear them. It’s a hollow feeling to be honest. Compared to when I wear my Seikos, citizen vostoks or Gshock (which are not high end watches) I really enjoy them. They’ve got character, just something about them. The homages are just pale shadows of the real thing but it’s each to their own,
i kinda get you, i abolutely love my Casio, but i'm not as attached to the homage watches, i have a pagani daytona that i think will sell. tho i still like my steeldive submariner mainly for the lume.
an advice i could give you is to change the straps. i put my submariner homage on a leather strap and it felt like a completely different watch. maybe that can make you see them as their own thing and less as a copy of another watch
I totally understand. People are different. I own a SD1953 Starbucks and SD1993 GMT Batman, but I always feel good when I wear them.That's it, I wear them to feel good and not for validation or to show off because in Uganda 99℅ of the people don't care what watch you're wearing even if it costs thousands of dollars. When you mention Rolex everyone here thinks you're talking about a local delicacy made of chapatti and eggs
This happens every where... Fashion for instance... We aren't all running about in Prada etc but most other fashion brands take there ques from them
You'll never get true satisfaction from owning a homage.
Some of these designs are really old. If any kind of design protection has expired, the original designers are long dead and buried and even ownership of the brand has changed hands any modern reissue is arguably just as much of a homage, but with the old logo stamped on it.
That's even more apparent with watches made for and issued by institutions like the military. I mean, how are you supposed to make an "authentic" Flieger these days? The Luftwaffe isn't going to commission any more. 😛
I bought a Pagani daytona homage for 60bucks even though I have nice watches. Mainly to satisfy myself while not breaking the bank. You guys have a problem with that, that's your problem not mine. It functions like a seiko because of its vk63.
I own seiko homages. They're somewhat aspirational for me but when i took my SteelDive willard in yo compare it to the seiko i couldn't explain why it was over 1k more.
Aren’t a lot of major brands guilty of this also? There is a kind of copy of the No Time To Die Omega watch done by Seiko and their dive watches, while have some differences, do look rather similar to Rolex’s. The list does seem endless.
Yep. Seiko's 62MAS is a straight copy of the 1950s Blancpain Bathyscaphe
Thanks for the reminder on the San Martin.
Homages (clones) are actually generally not in a grey area, legally. This is because very few watch brands actually patent their designs due to feasibility. They certainly Trademark their name and logos, which makes replicas open to litigation, but filing patents for subtle design changes simply isn't realistic: a patent office wouldn't even be able to distinguish patent differences even between various revisions of a Rolex Submariner. Further, remember, while trademarks do not expire, patents do, after 20 years.
This basically makes trying to protect a watch design, particularly one that has been around for awhile, effectively impossible. Now AP did indeed sue, and win, one case regarding their 1975 Royal Oak design, however, they did so under the protection of trademark, not patent. AP argued that the royal oak design is so ingrained in their brand, that it is effectively part of their trademark. This is a legally dubious claim, as trademarks are pretty specific, and AP holds no actual specific trademark for the royal oak design, as a design is not really something you can trademark. But they did win the case regardless. Nevertheless, it was a tough case, and likely cannot be replicated for something as generic as the submariner.
Look every time I buy a homage I might like the design but I dont like how I feel like people are trying to eye it up. The closest I have to a homage now is a Tudor Date-Day... I guess because of the brand linkage I don't mind it.
I have a couple homage sports watches. I like that they have movements made by Seiko and Miyota. Similar to the couple microbrand watches that I own and love. 2 are quartz, and 2 automatic mechanicals. They have lasted over 2 years and continue to run just fine. I have no complaints whatsoever. My final and 5th watch is a Casio Royale World Traveler. I religiously use it for travels, and when I just want to grab and go, for anything.
one of my first automatic watches was a homage, but I had no idea it was a homage of a pre-existing watch, I just wanted a smaller version of a Seiko 5 sport and ended up with an SKX homage, still wear it and love it every day 😂
If all these watch brands such as Rolex, AP, patek etc didn’t charge extortionate prices for their watches then counterfeiting wouldn’t be such a big problem since the original would be more accessible to a wider audience . Since when should a watch cost more than a house and I’m quite sure that it costs no where near that amount to produce take Rolex for example , they charge tens of thousands for some of their watches which quite honestly aren’t that impressive , performance isn’t that great and service prices are extortionate and let’s not forget the never ending waiting list which enables Watch flippers to charge more than the original retail price. I can go to Tudor , Hamilton , tissot , seiko etc and get a watch that may or may not have an in-house movement and it will still tell the time the same and in most instances better than a Rolex or an AP and will also look just as nice and sometimes be made from Preciouse metals and the Watch will be a fraction of the price so I say if these big powerhouse brands are losing sales to homages and counterfeits then it’s of their own doing and I have no sympathy , they say they are losing out as a genuine company but how genuine are they if they are happy to rip us off with extortionate pricing ???
"western brands like Seiko". That aside, good video.Usually, any clomage watches I get always end up as beaters and I then endevour to get the real "inspiration" watch, much to my wife''s confusion...
Geographically Japan is obviously in the east, however politically it is considered a westen democracy as it has a lot of links to actually westen countries & is in the G7 for example. Australia is also considered westen politically as well for example
Valid points on a lot of what you're saying here. But calling them out on water resistance is a bit nuts, since water resistance for anything that isn't ISO certified is always suspect. Tons of brands, homage or not can slap whatever they want on the dial as a claimed WR as long as they don't have that ever important apostrophe in the word Diver's on the dial.
Some brands are big enough that they do homages to their own more expensive watches; Seiko being the best example with the massive Seiko 5 range with models like the SNLK41
I like these homage brands for Fliegers, type A looks the same even if it isnt an IWC :D
There is actually at least one case of counterfeits that are absolutely legal. That is for movies. They do not hide what they are, but marked it in less visible places, like on the back or even on the indside of the backplate. Those watches are generally very accurate on the face and the visible parts like the (outside) links. They could be considered superclones in many aspects. They are especially made to look nearly undistinguishable, even for those who know about watches, in closeups. Those are only sold to registered media/film companies, often even needing proof that they are actually active and legit companies. They often run not that cheap. Patek Nautilus motion picture superclones can cost easily 1000-2500. That is still much cheaper than getting an original especially when they are at risk of being damaged. They are marked on the backside that they are for motion pictures only and internally 100% distinguishable from the original.
i own a clone homage but with never own a replica. simply because if its not the real thing i want it to be visible and not try to fool myself or others, and the change of the logo jumps to the eye when someone goes "ohhh, love your Patek"
San Martin's quality is increasing all the time and has now reached exceptional levels. They are now moving towards their own designs and away from homages.
Before the explosion in Ali Express copies an homage watch was one that took cues from another. it was never a copy and paste job. Nothing against copies, I own several Seestern Doxalikes and a Steeldive "Willard" which is an amazing watch for the money. Let's have the good grace to call them what they are. When they appear identical, or nearly so, to a much more expensive watch, homages they are not!!
Are we really ignoring the Invicta Pro Diver and all those Steinhardts?
@@Alias_Anybody Two that existed before the deluge. Noah still had years to build The Ark when these two held sway. 😉
Meh I have a Sea Dweller 126600 and a Pagani Design PD-1661 which is a Submariner clone homage, and I much prefer to wear the PD. Less stress about damaging the watch and most people will compliment any watch that looks good on the wrist anyway lol.
Davosa makes Rolex Sub/GMT Homages for 1000-1,500 which is DAMN sight more reasonable from 10 to 25 Grand for the Rolex Sub/GMT.
I couldn't imagine the legal mess that would arise if the legal system truly went after brands copying original designs from the larger brands. Furthermore, a monopoly would most likely arise for specific designs depending on how far a company wanted to protect their original design. That would certainly help watches hold their value if one considered reselling the watch but it would also make them far more difficult to obtain, theoretically. My personal opinion is that everything devalues in time so why not the design of a watch as well? I'm sure my opinion is not a popular one but with that said I believe a company's original design should be protected as much as possible since the company creating the design took the risk to make the watch, market therefore mentioned watch, with no guarentee the watch would be successful.
As usual this was a great video and I remain another long term fan of the channel. I hope your channel continues to grow.
This is my opinion if someone is not that into watches and just wants a great looking watch with good specs homage is a way to go, however if you are a watch enthusiast it is very hard to wear something you know it is a rip off design.
I just can't afford the real thing. Buying a copy for my own pleasure without any pretense of owning the original is okay for me. It's also a good practice base for modding watches.
very much the same for me. Im not against buying authentic affordable watches, but i often find the best bang for my buck from straight up counterfeit clones. I personally enjoy the shit out of them and no ones opinions really concern me in that regard. I sleep like a baby.
I own a Speedmaster Tintin, but I wear a Seiko Speedmaster Tintin mod.
most of my watches are homages, because i like watches but i see no point in going broke tryng to afford one single original while i could have many homages that are good enough and i dont have to worry about scratching while doing all the random stuff my line of work has me doing.
Let's be frank. I can afford a Rolex. If I would wanted to. So I went to my "local" Rolex dealer 250 km away (small country, we don't have too many Rolex dealers... and asked for a Daytona. Got the spiel of "demand outstripping suppy", waiting lists and if they could sell me watches (that I don't have interest in) to cover the waiting time. I respectfully declined. Then I was told that I could visit a "friend" that specialises in selling pre-owned Rolexes... So I said "pre-owned means it's cheaper?" and they laughed me out of their shop.
Not playing their games. Not paying premiums on top of the alreeady inflated price. Not waiting until forever to get one "assigned". So I left and took my money to another shop, bought me a Omega Speedy and my wife a Constellation and saved money over the Rolex extortion.
I think homage brands are useful to the genuine manufacturers. My Pagani just made me want the real thing even more. By the way in the UK, yes replica watches are illegal but buying them isn't. Only selling. Weird I agree
Was waiting for this topic:)
Even the "clone homage" watches are in a gray area because a number of well respected brands have made them- consider how many brands have used Mercedes hands.
A recognized brand that makes homages at least provides you with a known quantity. A fake watch may be pure junk inside, you have no way of knowing.
The biggest downside to me regarding Homages is how do you explain to your friend that it isn't a fake watch? I prefer not to own a homage of a well known design for that problem, but a homage of a watch that the general public wouldn't recognize might be a different story.
Love Steinhart, nothing wrong with homage.
Not everyone likes to pay 10x and wear with rest of mind.
I could easily buy a rolex instead of the steinhart, but i could not wear it as carelessly as i would with the steinhart...i am not Edd Sheeran rich..none of us are..and i do not want to baby my watches.
I can't speak for other luxury watch brands, and a quick internet search hasn't immediately uncovered a reliable secondary source for what I'm about to say, so take it with a pinch of salt. But apparently Rolex sold the Submariner design, or permission to use it, to other watch companies who put their own logos and design twists on them. This indicates that at least some clone homage watches are unambiguously legal. And I guess it makes financial sense, too: if you know other companies will clone your design anyway, you might as well make some money from it.
I think the only reason why "homage watches" are even in business is because Rolex prices on the grey market are ridiculous and many non-watch-enthusiast will simply be denied the chance to buy a Rolex (unless they suck off the dealer and buy five Tudors).
You seem to live in a world where Rolex is the only watch manufacturer
@@Jabber-ig3iw But they are certainly the most "homage'd" watch! Other brands (i.e. Omega) are also super hard to get and as a result we see many homages.
There’s some interesting and complex copy law. Basically you can have an aesthetic or a technical copyright but usually not both. You have to prove the design is technically unique and provides some sort of added value. ( I’m not doing this justice, there’s some extremely long articles online by lawyers explaining international laws about watch designs). This is very hard to prove vis a vis fonts and design language.
Basically companies have the legal right to make watches that look like other watches, and some big billion dollar international brands do. AP was able to sue because they own a patent on 8 screws on a bezel.
Bad investments? Who thinks of anything that costs $100 as an investment?
Don’t buy a homage unless you like it. Otherwise you will always think about the expensive
real watch. I actually like my $49 Two tone blue 37mm quartz Invicta. To me it very attractive. It keeps great time. I accept it for what it is. If you are always comparing it to
the watch it copies you will never be happy with it. I marvel at the Invicta for making such
A solid watch for so little money. The last watch I bought was a Seiko green Alpinist with a leather band. It is also a good running watch. My other watches are vintage Omega watches.
They are in a class by themselves.
my PD works perfectly, beautiful watch, good material and construction. Nothing to complain