The Tobians have pro audio level power handling and a big horn-loaded compression driver, so it's no surprise that they can fill a room. I've recently gotten into pro audio, and I was floored to discover that the live rock'n'roll sound I've been seeking and not finding in my living room for 40 years can be had in a pair of $1200 Coda Audio HOPS8 point sources (paired with a sub, as they only go down to 60Hz.) The Codas are unique in that their speakers all feature compression drivers of their own design that utilize a pair of flat ring diaphragms instead of a 4" titanium dome. They're not as resolving or refined as the air motion transformers in my main system, but the way they fill a room with rock music is the crack cocaine of audio for me right now.
Man I went high efficiency horn ( Heresy IV’s) and tubes a few years ago and found what i didn’t know I was missing. I use a powerful sub and wow. I have Focals and many other speakers , but I found my jams. I think HiFi speakers today, trade excitement and that live sound for smooth and tinkly. I bet these are incredible. Cool review man
Powerfully positive review Michael. Loved every word. Good horns are noted for their great dynamics, both micro & macro. You mentioned dynamics with these speakers, but more in passing. Would you say dynamic differentiation is one of their comparative strengths? You mention you love horns. Wondering whether you’ve heard a Volti Audio model, or whether one is in your waiting list?? Many reviewers have given Voltis top ratings. They’re always three-way, so a clearly different approach. Would be SUPER curious to learn what you think of them. Thanks again, Kurt
Hi Kurt - thanks for the kind words. I've heard Volti's in show settings so I can't do a direct comparison that is fair or meaningful. The dynamics of the Tobian's are tremendous. On the Frank Sinatra song I use as a reference when the orchestra kicks in behind him it goes from 0 - 1000mph in a split second. It's fantastic. On opera music I find the singers seem much more effortless and powerful when they really belt out the music. And on vocal trance they make you feel like you are at the best club venue. The only think I have ever heard that I can even compare in terns of dynamics are the MUCH large and MUCH MUCH more expensive Avant Garde's. I can't get over how small these speaker are (relatively speaking) and how super large the sound is. Love is an understatement.
Great review Michael. Very powerfully positive. You mentioned several strengths, but I still wish I were clearer which acoustical qualities soooo emotionally connected with you. Am super glad to hear you’ll be reviewing several other pricey competitors and am very very much looking forward to comparisons. Will the Tobians still so clearly crown your list? You said you’re a fan of (well done) horns. Have you heard any of the Volti Audio models? Every review I’ve seen has been stellar. And Volti’s are always three-way, so a different approach than Tobian’s two-ways. Thnx again
Thanks Kurt for watching. I'm trying to find the right balance between video length and amount of detail. I could easily do a 20-25 minute video on the gear, but metrics show few actually watch a video that long. No worries - I have more videos coming on this and the other speakers as I will be doing more videos but shorter in length going forward.
I feel the same about my dipole open cone speakers with a woofer in the box. I would not change them for the most expensive speakers, cos I like the dipole open cone sound. The sounds come from nowhere! If there is any REVERB in a recording, you are going to hear it. 😅
Nice work, Michael. Just played with positioning of mine, again. About 9'8" apart, c2c, and ear-2-twitter of ~136". Interesting so far. Also using the 1:5 placement method.
Wait till you hear what I did to them which takes them next level. Hopefully that video will be coming next week. :) I also find using a digital level that I can easily hear 1/10 of a degree difference in their angle. Have you played with left/right level and angle yet?
@@GreekAudioGeek cool. Yes, have been playing with speaker pitch/angles. so many variables...ear height, seating distance, etc. oh...just ordered a set of carbide audio feet to demo. Should be very interesting.
Feet on these speakers will make a HUGE difference. I've tired four so far but not those. Let me know how you like them. Here is a tip from what I've discovered- if they are a bit bright they are aiming to high. If they are a bit dull and lifeless they are too low.
Did you hear a Cube Audio Loudspeakers from Poland? Both Nelson Pass uses one of the Cube drivers in a custom built cabinet and Peter Breuninger of AV Showrooms uses the Nenuphars Speakers as his reference and I believe it is still his reference.
Nice review. After buying a pair of JBL 4367 (15”/horn 2 way) I had similar feelings and doubt I will go back to traditional box speakers in the future. Have you happened to have head the JBL 4367, M2, or K2 S9000 to compare?
Hi James - you've got some nice speakers! I have. The JBL sound very good indeed, however they are not nearly as musical. I'd say they are more of a studio monitor sound and less of a musical sound. Neither is wrong - just very different.
@@GreekAudioGeek I run duel 18” subs with an active crossover which makes them more “musical” with just a touch of house tune. I looked up the 15” model of these and they are too expensive for me at $70k. Looks nice though.
I'm running the 12" version of the Tobians ($39K) and a 16" SVS sub and it will shake the walls down. I was afraid I'd need the 15" version as well but the 12's are fantastic. You could always look at the 15" coaxial horn version which is less money.
@@GreekAudioGeek I have no need for the 15”… just like them big lol. I am pretty happy with the JBL, enough that I am not sure where to go next. I will keep an eye out for these though.
Just as a matter of curiosity, and not picking on these speakers, but it would be interesting to know what the manufacturer's/dealer's profit margins are on luxury audio items like this.
Hi - Good question. As someone who has been in the corporate world for over 30 years, I would say there are two different numbers: The gross profit or what I call "on paper profit" which is the difference between dealer price (notice I didn't say cots) and retail price. Then there is actual DEALER PROFIT or net profit which is what exists after the dealer pays shipping, spends time paying their guys to set up the speakers for you, pays income tax, property taxes, utilities for his business, business computers and store maintenance, vehicle costs for delivering, social security taxes, payroll taxes, marketing of the gear and trade shows expenses, general staff payroll and having to pre-pay your business taxes ahead of any actual income. In talking with dealers that makes the "paper profit" end up being a very small number.
@@GreekAudioGeek The slightly larger 15 inch version of your speaker is almost twice the price ($70k vs $37k) so that's the kind of thing I'm curious about.
@@mkfmkf55FEASTREX a driver manufacturer have 8" field core FR drivers for like 80 grand a pair! 😅 Holy cow! I wonder what the transport and manufacturing costs etc. are for them, compared to the price? 😅
I was wondering the same thing. The mfg was explaining how it's exponentially more expensive than the 12" version from the crossover parts, to drive cost, to wood, crating, shipping - everything. It's an order of magnitude in expense.
Some of the items I borrow from others or sent for the purpose of letting me review so I don't have to buy everything. Some items I have bought up front with my own money.
I'd live to hear your take on how the mids and highs compare to the La Scala.. I am just going to presume bass is much lower in these. 4" compression driver is a big diameter driver. Did the build it in-house or outsource it?
My understanding is everything is either completely built in house or they bring in a shell of a driver (like the woofer) and them completely rebuild it to their specs (I base this off comments read on a forum bu the company owner but I may be mistaken). The La Scala has good upper mids and highs. I say good. It is let down by a horrible cabinet that has so much resonance that lower mids are very boxy and chesty sounding. The mids and highs from the Tobian's are MUCH smoother, clearer, more effortless and FULL of texture and emotion the La Scala's lacked. Same with the bass on the Tobains -full of texture and emotion the La Scala's lacked (as do many speakers to be honest). The La Scala's offer a lot of speaker for the money for sure. But they are really, really really let down by their cabinet and once you hear the Tobain's you realize (and I don't say this to be negative) how the La Scala's are mid-fi speakers. I will also say I thought the La Scala's sounded large, but the Tobian's are every bit as large sounding and maybe even more so. The Tobians are an other-worldly experience I was not prepared for.
@@GreekAudioGeekI really enjoy your channel despite the fact that I could never afford a system of the caliber of yours. It seems that we're both music lovers. That's all that really matters at the end of the day.
Thank you Marc. We do agree - it's always about music first. And I really do believe you don't have to spend a lot of money to get a very musically satisfying system.
It is strange every time you say you're Greek. You look like a spitting image of a Jordanian guy (from Jordan) who owns a restaurant in my town, i could have sworn you were middle-eastern.
The Tobians have pro audio level power handling and a big horn-loaded compression driver, so it's no surprise that they can fill a room. I've recently gotten into pro audio, and I was floored to discover that the live rock'n'roll sound I've been seeking and not finding in my living room for 40 years can be had in a pair of $1200 Coda Audio HOPS8 point sources (paired with a sub, as they only go down to 60Hz.) The Codas are unique in that their speakers all feature compression drivers of their own design that utilize a pair of flat ring diaphragms instead of a 4" titanium dome. They're not as resolving or refined as the air motion transformers in my main system, but the way they fill a room with rock music is the crack cocaine of audio for me right now.
I agree with you that pro audio gear can offer some real advantages.
Those speakers look great, love the style and form! Glad you found something you really like!
Man I went high efficiency horn ( Heresy IV’s) and tubes a few years ago and found what i didn’t know I was missing. I use a powerful sub and wow. I have Focals and many other speakers , but I found my jams. I think HiFi speakers today, trade excitement and that live sound for smooth and tinkly.
I bet these are incredible. Cool review man
Thanks for watching. I agree with you - many new gear trades "detail" and "accuracy" for musical flow and engagement.
M, We have "very" different systems. I too have my end game speakers. The SoundArtist LS35A's, with my mid-fi gear they are glorious. Best, D.
Powerfully positive review Michael. Loved every word. Good horns are noted for their great dynamics, both micro & macro. You mentioned dynamics with these speakers, but more in passing. Would you say dynamic differentiation is one of their comparative strengths? You mention you love horns. Wondering whether you’ve heard a Volti Audio model, or whether one is in your waiting list?? Many reviewers have given Voltis top ratings. They’re always three-way, so a clearly different approach. Would be SUPER curious to learn what you think of them. Thanks again, Kurt
Hi Kurt - thanks for the kind words.
I've heard Volti's in show settings so I can't do a direct comparison that is fair or meaningful.
The dynamics of the Tobian's are tremendous. On the Frank Sinatra song I use as a reference when the orchestra kicks in behind him it goes from 0 - 1000mph in a split second. It's fantastic.
On opera music I find the singers seem much more effortless and powerful when they really belt out the music.
And on vocal trance they make you feel like you are at the best club venue.
The only think I have ever heard that I can even compare in terns of dynamics are the MUCH large and MUCH MUCH more expensive Avant Garde's.
I can't get over how small these speaker are (relatively speaking) and how super large the sound is.
Love is an understatement.
Great review Michael. Very powerfully positive. You mentioned several strengths, but I still wish I were clearer which acoustical qualities soooo emotionally connected with you. Am super glad to hear you’ll be reviewing several other pricey competitors and am very very much looking forward to comparisons. Will the Tobians still so clearly crown your list? You said you’re a fan of (well done) horns. Have you heard any of the Volti Audio models? Every review I’ve seen has been stellar. And Volti’s are always three-way, so a different approach than Tobian’s two-ways. Thnx again
Thanks Kurt for watching. I'm trying to find the right balance between video length and amount of detail. I could easily do a 20-25 minute video on the gear, but metrics show few actually watch a video that long.
No worries - I have more videos coming on this and the other speakers as I will be doing more videos but shorter in length going forward.
I feel the same about my dipole open cone speakers with a woofer in the box. I would not change them for the most expensive speakers, cos I like the dipole open cone sound. The sounds come from nowhere! If there is any REVERB in a recording, you are going to hear it. 😅
Thanks for sharing!
Nice work, Michael. Just played with positioning of mine, again. About 9'8" apart, c2c, and ear-2-twitter of ~136". Interesting so far. Also using the 1:5 placement method.
Wait till you hear what I did to them which takes them next level. Hopefully that video will be coming next week. :)
I also find using a digital level that I can easily hear 1/10 of a degree difference in their angle.
Have you played with left/right level and angle yet?
@@GreekAudioGeek cool. Yes, have been playing with speaker pitch/angles. so many variables...ear height, seating distance, etc. oh...just ordered a set of carbide audio feet to demo. Should be very interesting.
Feet on these speakers will make a HUGE difference. I've tired four so far but not those. Let me know how you like them.
Here is a tip from what I've discovered- if they are a bit bright they are aiming to high. If they are a bit dull and lifeless they are too low.
@@GreekAudioGeek very nice. Look forward to watching and learning about what you've done.
Did you hear a Cube Audio Loudspeakers from Poland? Both Nelson Pass uses one of the Cube drivers in a custom built cabinet and Peter Breuninger of AV Showrooms uses the Nenuphars Speakers as his reference and I believe it is still his reference.
Hi - I have not heard them in person that I can recall.
Nice review. After buying a pair of JBL 4367 (15”/horn 2 way) I had similar feelings and doubt I will go back to traditional box speakers in the future.
Have you happened to have head the JBL 4367, M2, or K2 S9000 to compare?
Hi James - you've got some nice speakers!
I have. The JBL sound very good indeed, however they are not nearly as musical. I'd say they are more of a studio monitor sound and less of a musical sound. Neither is wrong - just very different.
@@GreekAudioGeek I run duel 18” subs with an active crossover which makes them more “musical” with just a touch of house tune.
I looked up the 15” model of these and they are too expensive for me at $70k. Looks nice though.
I'm running the 12" version of the Tobians ($39K) and a 16" SVS sub and it will shake the walls down. I was afraid I'd need the 15" version as well but the 12's are fantastic. You could always look at the 15" coaxial horn version which is less money.
@@GreekAudioGeek I have no need for the 15”… just like them big lol.
I am pretty happy with the JBL, enough that I am not sure where to go next. I will keep an eye out for these though.
I have several exciting speakers coming in for review in the coming months. Maybe one of them will be right for you.
Might you put a couple of audio videos up that we might consider these horns for ourselves ?
Working on it.
Just as a matter of curiosity, and not picking on these speakers, but it would be interesting to know what the manufacturer's/dealer's profit margins are on luxury audio items like this.
Hi - Good question.
As someone who has been in the corporate world for over 30 years, I would say there are two different numbers: The gross profit or what I call "on paper profit" which is the difference between dealer price (notice I didn't say cots) and retail price.
Then there is actual DEALER PROFIT or net profit which is what exists after the dealer pays shipping, spends time paying their guys to set up the speakers for you, pays income tax, property taxes, utilities for his business, business computers and store maintenance, vehicle costs for delivering, social security taxes, payroll taxes, marketing of the gear and trade shows expenses, general staff payroll and having to pre-pay your business taxes ahead of any actual income.
In talking with dealers that makes the "paper profit" end up being a very small number.
@@GreekAudioGeek The slightly larger 15 inch version of your speaker is almost twice the price ($70k vs $37k) so that's the kind of thing I'm curious about.
@@mkfmkf55FEASTREX a driver manufacturer have 8" field core FR drivers for like 80 grand a pair! 😅 Holy cow! I wonder what the transport and manufacturing costs etc. are for them, compared to the price? 😅
I was wondering the same thing. The mfg was explaining how it's exponentially more expensive than the 12" version from the crossover parts, to drive cost, to wood, crating, shipping - everything. It's an order of magnitude in expense.
I'm amazed at your budget.
Some of the items I borrow from others or sent for the purpose of letting me review so I don't have to buy everything. Some items I have bought up front with my own money.
Any good with electronic music?
Fantastic.
Hi Michael, have you heard their co-axials? I think Thobian demo room has the co-axials.
Hi - I have not heard the co-axials myself but from what people tell me they are very good.
Where do you live? I would love to hear those.
Contact Suncoast Audio here as they have several models in the showroom: www.suncoastaudio.com/collections/tobian-sound-systems-1
I'd live to hear your take on how the mids and highs compare to the La Scala.. I am just going to presume bass is much lower in these. 4" compression driver is a big diameter driver. Did the build it in-house or outsource it?
My understanding is everything is either completely built in house or they bring in a shell of a driver (like the woofer) and them completely rebuild it to their specs (I base this off comments read on a forum bu the company owner but I may be mistaken).
The La Scala has good upper mids and highs. I say good. It is let down by a horrible cabinet that has so much resonance that lower mids are very boxy and chesty sounding.
The mids and highs from the Tobian's are MUCH smoother, clearer, more effortless and FULL of texture and emotion the La Scala's lacked. Same with the bass on the Tobains -full of texture and emotion the La Scala's lacked (as do many speakers to be honest).
The La Scala's offer a lot of speaker for the money for sure. But they are really, really really let down by their cabinet and once you hear the Tobain's you realize (and I don't say this to be negative) how the La Scala's are mid-fi speakers.
I will also say I thought the La Scala's sounded large, but the Tobian's are every bit as large sounding and maybe even more so. The Tobians are an other-worldly experience I was not prepared for.
@@GreekAudioGeek Very interesting!!
Not a whisk, they're called brushes. FYI They seem to be amazing speakers.
Ah - good to know. Thank you. And thanks for watching!
@@GreekAudioGeekI really enjoy your channel despite the fact that I could never afford a system of the caliber of yours. It seems that we're both music lovers. That's all that really matters at the end of the day.
Thank you Marc. We do agree - it's always about music first. And I really do believe you don't have to spend a lot of money to get a very musically satisfying system.
It is strange every time you say you're Greek. You look like a spitting image of a Jordanian guy (from Jordan) who owns a restaurant in my town, i could have sworn you were middle-eastern.
Ummm...I'm sorry I guess.
Like all things hifi related, it's all subjective.
Yup - Which I repeatedly stated in my video. That's what makes this hobby so great.