zero issue if you are forward about this, AND customer SIGNS a document acknowledging that you will lock the tune and only you will have access to the ECU after you work on it. However, if they leave your shop and then find out you locked their ECU... you are the bad guy. Personally, I'd advise anyone I know to stay away from your shop, or any other shop that wants lock their ECU.
The garden example is illogical and fundamentally incorrect. Firstly, when you provide a locked tune, it is locked. No amount of tuning-specific software and/or knowledge will enable one to defeat a form of software security. You need an insider, a cryptographer or a completely different type of software/tool at that point. And if tuners use those tools to unlock other's tunes - that's opening an entirely different can of worms that we shouldn't go into for very obvious reasons. Secondly, tuners do not provide tools to customers regardless of whether the tune is locked or unlocked. Tuners provide a service, and the tune file/bin itself. They do not provide customers with the software that generated the tune file. If a tuner was a gardener and the "garden" was a locked tune, he'd say something along the lines of "Here's your new garden. If you or someone else gets the tools that I used, it won't be physically possible to do anything to it unless you completely destroy your garden and start over from scratch. Yes, you will need the tools that I used if you want to do anything, but you won't be able to work with what is sitting in your yard right now. Enjoy your new garden that you can only use or destroy, because you agreed with me that it isn't your property".
@@AaronONeal1 no one owns the languages that programmers use these days, or at least the compiler gets licensed, but Oracle for example (Java makers) doesn't own the applications that used it for development. There's gotta be some lawyer out there that can tie that together to get it protected as IP, then when someone signs up for a tune, they automatically agree to sign the NDA or it doesn't get tuned.
@@GTisRule this just me spitballing, I know it can be registered as IP. I think maybe in the same way as clever organization of the English language, which no one owns, can be copyrighted or trademarked.
I totally disagree locking shit is unprofessional, if your only concern is covering up your self then keep the map as back up and if user fucks up do hash check. I dont know your knowledge base but a lot of tuners lock the shit up to hide their lack of tuning knowledge so no one else can go over it.
It's a shame integrity isn't more common in people. There are honest and dishonest customers as well as honest and dishonest tuners and shops. Unfortunately its hard to tell in either case until its too late. As a customer who likes to "tinker", I like access to the tune but I'm not a fool, I know how the world works and how bad people can get. So I don't blame anyone for locking a tune to protect themselves from dealing with less than trustworthy people. If a car owner wants access to the tune in their own car but wants someone else to do the tuning for them, seems to me they better work up a good relationship with that tuner and build a friendship of trust, not to mention pay for the tuner's time while you work with them. Ultimately if you're not willing to invest the time, effort and money it takes to learn your own car, then you are at the tuner's mercy. Pay them and let them do their job.
Theres nothing I enjoy more than unlocking a locked ECU from a "tooner". - New customer comes in because car has a fault or needs checking after being tuned at shop XYZ with a locked map. - Ask shop XZY for the password so we can check things over and help customer, not even to retune the car just sort out whatever small issue there is. Shop XYZ says no because "enter crying noises here". - Unlock the ECU with some clever methods developed by a clever man. Look at the locked map which is the basemap with some alterations, no safeties, very barebone lazy attempt at a tune. No wonder they dont want anyone to see it. - Send old tuner his old password in a message with a smiley face. I'm alright with the idea for tuners to lock stuff in order to save a customer from themselves or protect some special work they have done. Let's be real most of the time most tunes are done on engines and packages that are fairly mainstream and been done to death, just because a tuner can make it run well dosent mean hes discovered anything new normally and is certainly not "IP". Aside from writing your own Motec firmware, most aftermarket ECU's have all the hardwork done in the background by the developers who wrote the software, who I'd argue at the ones with any sort of claims on IP as they are the ones providing the framework and functionality for tuners to play with. I keep seeing situations where shops will armlock a customer into returning due to a locked shitty map or refusing to help if customers gets fed up and goes else where. The only loser in this situation is the customer who ends up paying for a service 2 or 3 times over which is never good. Personally I never lock any of my tunes unless there is an extreme reason for it, I support every tune I've ever done regardless of who owns the car or where it goes in future to get work done, I'm always happy to assist. I wish more people had this sort of attitude as we could collectively work better within the industry and everyone would profit., j
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Spot on my friend! You are one of the 1%ers in this industry. That is one of the main reasons i have so much respect for you! Brother from another!
zero issue if you are forward about this, AND customer SIGNS a document acknowledging that you will lock the tune and only you will have access to the ECU after you work on it. However, if they leave your shop and then find out you locked their ECU... you are the bad guy. Personally, I'd advise anyone I know to stay away from your shop, or any other shop that wants lock their ECU.
The garden example is illogical and fundamentally incorrect. Firstly, when you provide a locked tune, it is locked. No amount of tuning-specific software and/or knowledge will enable one to defeat a form of software security. You need an insider, a cryptographer or a completely different type of software/tool at that point. And if tuners use those tools to unlock other's tunes - that's opening an entirely different can of worms that we shouldn't go into for very obvious reasons.
Secondly, tuners do not provide tools to customers regardless of whether the tune is locked or unlocked. Tuners provide a service, and the tune file/bin itself. They do not provide customers with the software that generated the tune file.
If a tuner was a gardener and the "garden" was a locked tune, he'd say something along the lines of "Here's your new garden. If you or someone else gets the tools that I used, it won't be physically possible to do anything to it unless you completely destroy your garden and start over from scratch. Yes, you will need the tools that I used if you want to do anything, but you won't be able to work with what is sitting in your yard right now. Enjoy your new garden that you can only use or destroy, because you agreed with me that it isn't your property".
Your absolutely right brother keep it up.
This is oh so true. Be great sir! Stay honest and stay real.
How can you lock Mitsubishi maps?
Is it considered Intellectual property? "Programming code" is, which is what ECU 'tuning' is.
Great question, I do not own the code. I guess maybe there are other things to look at
@@AaronONeal1 no one owns the languages that programmers use these days, or at least the compiler gets licensed, but Oracle for example (Java makers) doesn't own the applications that used it for development. There's gotta be some lawyer out there that can tie that together to get it protected as IP, then when someone signs up for a tune, they automatically agree to sign the NDA or it doesn't get tuned.
@@GTisRule this just me spitballing, I know it can be registered as IP. I think maybe in the same way as clever organization of the English language, which no one owns, can be copyrighted or trademarked.
@@AaronONeal1 it sucks you can't just rely on honesty and integrity with people anymore.
I totally disagree locking shit is unprofessional, if your only concern is covering up your self then keep the map as back up and if user fucks up do hash check. I dont know your knowledge base but a lot of tuners lock the shit up to hide their lack of tuning knowledge so no one else can go over it.
If a tuner wants to lock a map it should disclose that first, I would deny the service and look for someone else.
It's a shame integrity isn't more common in people. There are honest and dishonest customers as well as honest and dishonest tuners and shops. Unfortunately its hard to tell in either case until its too late. As a customer who likes to "tinker", I like access to the tune but I'm not a fool, I know how the world works and how bad people can get. So I don't blame anyone for locking a tune to protect themselves from dealing with less than trustworthy people.
If a car owner wants access to the tune in their own car but wants someone else to do the tuning for them, seems to me they better work up a good relationship with that tuner and build a friendship of trust, not to mention pay for the tuner's time while you work with them. Ultimately if you're not willing to invest the time, effort and money it takes to learn your own car, then you are at the tuner's mercy. Pay them and let them do their job.
Theres nothing I enjoy more than unlocking a locked ECU from a "tooner".
- New customer comes in because car has a fault or needs checking after being tuned at shop XYZ with a locked map.
- Ask shop XZY for the password so we can check things over and help customer, not even to retune the car just sort out whatever small issue there is. Shop XYZ says no because "enter crying noises here".
- Unlock the ECU with some clever methods developed by a clever man. Look at the locked map which is the basemap with some alterations, no safeties, very barebone lazy attempt at a tune. No wonder they dont want anyone to see it.
- Send old tuner his old password in a message with a smiley face.
I'm alright with the idea for tuners to lock stuff in order to save a customer from themselves or protect some special work they have done. Let's be real most of the time most tunes are done on engines and packages that are fairly mainstream and been done to death, just because a tuner can make it run well dosent mean hes discovered anything new normally and is certainly not "IP". Aside from writing your own Motec firmware, most aftermarket ECU's have all the hardwork done in the background by the developers who wrote the software, who I'd argue at the ones with any sort of claims on IP as they are the ones providing the framework and functionality for tuners to play with.
I keep seeing situations where shops will armlock a customer into returning due to a locked shitty map or refusing to help if customers gets fed up and goes else where. The only loser in this situation is the customer who ends up paying for a service 2 or 3 times over which is never good. Personally I never lock any of my tunes unless there is an extreme reason for it, I support every tune I've ever done regardless of who owns the car or where it goes in future to get work done, I'm always happy to assist. I wish more people had this sort of attitude as we could collectively work better within the industry and everyone would profit., j
I just subscribed to you based on your comment here.