I'm 74, autistic and a retired plumbing contractor. I knew at an early age I didn't play well with others, so I chose a career that had me self-employed and working alone. I made bank, retired early and bought a small spread in Texas, where I spend my time happily alone, building windmills and steam engines for fun. I'm very creative and LOVE being autistic.
The issue for me is that workplaces are often so very competitive - i'm often not finding 'supportive' management, just demanding management who writes me off because i dont communicate with enough smooth confidence.
yeah, looking at skills? not so much a trend in the us as far as i can tell. they'd still rather leave positions open and make people work long hours than hire young people. and with the mass tech layoffs? ugg
I thought I was super good at interviews for decades. Then, after my late diagnosis, and after looking back on my life, I finally realized I have never had a job that someone else didn't help me get. LOL! Turns out, I'm terrible at interviews, but you'll love me once you get to know me! LOL!
Same the only jobs I’ve ever had were essentially entry levels jobs even though I was considered intelligent. The few advanced jobs were gotten for me by a friend. Which is fairly common I hear.
I didn’t know I was autistic until my late thirties and my career choices have been HILARIOUS in hindsight. I’ve been a waiter (WAY too social) a chef (extremely stressful), a sushi chef (waiter and chef simultaneously) and a musician who gets up in front of people and performs. (Both social and stressful) Now I do musical instrument repair and work from home 3/5ths of the week. It’s PERFECT because I’m still forced to interact socially two days a week so I don’t become a total recluse, but I’m at home enough to feel like I generally have control over my surroundings. I was always really happy working in recording studios, sound engineering at live shows, and doing video editing. Since childhood I’ve always been drawn towards the “behind the scenes” jobs. I LOVE art but I’m not a big fan of being the center of attention.
What fuel your passion to participate - as in be part of a team of creatives in order for a thing to be performed or expressed, enjoyed and shared? Do you sometimes feel like you know enough about the final value of the outcome of that which you are part in realising - that it itself render you a sense of acheivement? Or is it only for the money? ;) Finding a good balance between "good work" and "job" - payed while stimulated to do ones best for deeper reasons - is part of the challenge for many supremely excellent people. Participating in enabling a greater understanding of oneself - enables others to understand us - which leads to us participating in a future where those who are similar to us, doen't have to go through the struggles in the same way we did. That's happening in the sublime un-accounted for resolution of humanity identifying the strengths of a broader range of individual characteristics. We are all different - we all have something to contribute. All the best! ❤ PS. Play with it - or not - what will be, will be. :) th-cam.com/video/3zKaHp0zW7U/w-d-xo.html
@@toni2309 Just general repairs, maintenance, restoration, and customization for stringed instruments like guitars, basses, ukes, etc. It’s a little bit of everything from woodwork to electronics.
@@atomicbong7597 My passion for creativity is driven purely by my love of art. I did it for free for many, many years before I ever got paid for it. ..and my favorite projects are still the ones I do at home just for fun. If I had the chance to be a famous musician, I absolutely wouldn’t take it. I have no interest in getting all that attention or money. As long as I can be creative and my bills are paid, I’m a happy person. ☺️
Anyone preparing for a job interview.. it makes the whole world of difference to do a "test run". Check out the route, go inside the building. Research interview questions, practice responses in front of a mirror. Record yourself and play it back over and over so it sinks in. Ask a friend to interview you. Have everything ready in advance. Have a good night sleep, eat a nice breakfast, arrive 1 hr early, go for a coffee, listen to some nice music. The more relaxed and at ease you are the better you'll perform. Xxx
My issue is that working full time (which is 40 hours EXCLUDING lunch in Sweden) is absolutely impossible for me. I have worked those times before but it just makes me incredibly stressed and depressed. But NO ONE wants to hire someone that DOESN'T work full time, even with my experience and education (computer science with about 10 years of exp).
you've said my issue exactly. Like excuse me for actually having issues, but autistic people are disabled in more than just name... I burn out, no way i could go full time. Nobody wants me.
I think the greatest barrier for those on the spectrum who are seeking work is bullying. Knowing that you're slightly different from everyone else places huge challenges on anyone on the spectrum, therefore one feels left out & they know they won't last long in the workforce.
I can be extremely intimidating. I didn’t find out I was autistic until I was 67 years old. I thought I was the only one. Being harassed and bulled for 20 years made me tough.
@@camellia8625It took me 20 years to get really good at dealing with them. To this day, 'it still happens. Bullies are cowards, they look for the weaker people so that they can put them down to make them self’s feel bigger. It's really kind of pathetic. To fix this, you ignore them if you can. But if you can’t, you need to find a game that they absolutely do not want to play, then make them play it. Like; describe a bully to them. When they ask “are you calling me a coward”. Answer, "apparently, you’re stupid too". I do this for two reasons. 1) If you tell them "lets resolve this peacefully", they smell fear and the next thing the bully will do is break your nose. 2) They don’t scare me. Never fight a well-trained autistic person. This game almost always works, they walk away humiliated. If they don't, I never hit first; I never invite them to hit me, and I do only what I need to do. I feel really bad about it for a long time when I have to hurt someone. I normally hit them twice, then give them a chance to walk away. I hit them so hard, they all walk. This a TH-cam video of me playing with my favorite weapon. th-cam.com/video/TBI8fXWZmKw/w-d-xo.html As you can see, I'm real, and I am indeed autistic. Thanks for your reply.
Totally agree, at age 47 I was signed off for medical retirement on mental health grounds because of decades of being bullied in over a dozen different jobs as well as in education. I work no more than 10 hours a week to top up my small pension and social security benefits, this keeps stress levels down and means that my face doesn't get too familiar with those of malign intent in a job where I have limited interaction with management and co-workers.
There was a group interview I had almost 12 and half years ago and the woman in the group made a huge point about me being nervous. I ended up getting an offer but very quickly their was mutual frustration between myself and the job. I barely lasted three weeks at that job. A large problem is the process in order to get a job in the first place (interview, getting called for an interview, meeting experience requirements...etc...) and then sometimes you can also get surprised when on the job itself and it end up being a complete mismatch.
Just had a group interview last week, which was extremely nerve wracking. I was a bit surprised to hear that the interviewer decided that I was qualified to move to the next stage (given my nerves), however the lack of information as to when the second half will be is stressing greatly. Perhaps finding new hires is not as urgent, but I would feel a lot more prepared and confident if not so much was left up to guesswork.
Call a duck "a duck". Of course, I’m nervous. Why don’t you talk about your positive points, rather than bad mouthing other people. Doing this will made her look small and petty, and make you look like a leader.
I've worked many jobs in the past 35 of my 53 years. My favorite jobs I sort of fell in to out of desperation. First one was being an aid in a special needs contained classroom years ago. I don't care for children, just never really liked being around them, nothing against them, but that actually made me an ideal aid because I didn't get emotional, I stayed practical and the kids respected me because I didn't try to be their buddies. I was always kind though and when I'd get to know them as little humans I did really start loving them all. But when that job was phased out of the school system in my early thirties and then my car broke down I had to take a job I thought I'd never do, working in construction. I was the only woman in the company and I had no training or any clue what I was doing. Eight years later I was in charge of a crew myself. I loved almost every aspect of construction. We were a relaxed crew so I could work in my shorts and tanks and didn't have to deal with my sensory nightmare of pants and long sleeves. I love the order and structure of building but what made me happiest was fire damage restoration. A lot of it was older homes with a lot of character and we wouldn't go cheap on those jobs so it went from burned/smokey messes to beautifully restored homes. And that also meant I got to do demolition by sledgehammer! Really helps work out your aggression! I'd still be working there if I could, but I got pregnant and had a son with special needs so I stayed home with him.Now he's an adult and I'm too lazy for all that. NOW I work for myself from home doing data entry and making extra on Mturk and Prolific. Still wearing my shorts and tanks though!
Do you have challenges with acquiring benefits from the remote data entry job? I’ve been researching a lot of remote jobs lately but some want full time hours for part time pay with no benefits.
I would highly recommend not going into medicine if you are autistic. While the science and problem solving is enticing, modern medicine includes constant interruptions with phones and texting and the energy drain continues to worsen as the years go on. I’m exceptional at what I do, but it comes at a significant cost.
Really too bad, because wow, neurodivergent people could really use a doctor who gets them! But I can see how that would be really difficult for someone who hates interruptions and constant stress. Very difficult.
I for sure had an issue balancing the social and technical aspects of my last job. Granted, I did the equipment repair side of healthcare, but after 6 months with inefficient systems, frustrating vendors, and people who were willing to stay miserable rather than change the bad system-- getting fired was a relief. Chronic fatigue, time blindness, social anxiety, sensory issues, and dozens of other issues I didn't know were related to my undiagnosed neurodivergency were adding an overwhelming level of stress to an unnecessarily frustrating job. I loved helping the nurses and patients but it was sucking the life out of me mentally and physically.
Worked as a Medical Assistant for years, tried working in at least 3 different medical offices (2 were Dermatology, 1 was General Practice) - got completely burnt out of that line of work and wouldn't even consider going back (this was also years before I discovered that I was Autistic). WAY too draining for me - emotionally, mentally, even physically at times. Even at the best of times I was constantly stressed because of the demands/expectations that were put on me there... haven't looked back. Just wish I knew then what I know now... I never would've pursued my Associates degree in that field in the 1st place. Not sure what I would've done, but it definitely would've been different. ...You live and learn, I guess (doing much better now in a totally different field).
>good jobs for autistic people >doesn't mention any specific jobs I don't live in Australia. Employers in America can't even fathom paying their employees enough to pay rent, let alone accommodating neurodivergent needs. Wtf am I supposed to do?
I quit my previous job of over 10 years due to workplace micromanagent, harrestment and bullying. I was diagnosed with asd and ptsd recently and have absolutely no desire to return to a typical work environment. I work for myself and do enough to meet my cost of living needs.
@@zilaz I do an assortment of information technology stuff. From data recovery, p.c repairs to network installations and server builds. I also picked up some administrative work for a couple of small local businesses I've done i.t work for previously. Handy when I have a slow month and can do it from home. All and all its pretty good with no real pressure or deadlines. It's done wonders for my mental health.
@@imogenm5016 thank you for the kind words and empathy. I really do feel for anyone who has had to endure a similar experience. It's not easy but I hope you find your own light at the end and achieve a sense of balance for your own mental well being and sanity. All the best in your quest.
Excellent video. I am on the spectrum and have a chronic illness. I quit my job this past December due to severe bullying, my illness and not fitting in. I'm now building my own company
I am an ASD'er with OCD and ADHD. I found my passion to be very conflicting with my lack of ability to socialise and and my high fluctuations in sensory needs. However, I have learned to manage a lot of it by simply being honest with my employer and my co-workers. I have a social service worker background and switched to elementary school support. I love my job and feel burnt right out at the end of the day, but I enjoy getting up everyday to get to work. I take the city bus to work. Put my ear buds in and block out the world. It gives me a calm before the storm, my peers understand when I don't engage during breaks and if I am pacing, rocking, flapping, flicking or fidgeting I'm just self-regulating before going back into the classroom. I am able to understand and connect with the kids and support them in ways they need better than those who are NT.
I've held so many jobs over the years...oh gosh, the list literally takes two pages. Finally I went to school to learn massage therapy. I didn't know I was autistic, but set up my life working from a home office, one client at a time. Bonus...they just close their eyes and don't expect me to talk! Now, at age 65, just yesterday I self-diagnosed with autism, and I understand why this job worked so well for me, and why the other jobs were such a struggle! I realize touching people wouldn't work for everyone, but apparently I have talent for finding and releasing those tight muscles. It's like a kinesiology puzzle and pattern for me to solve as I figure out what is making them uncomfortable or sore. Now I get why I enjoy that! I've been doing this work now for about 18 years, made a few friends, and helped people physically function and feel better. Total win for everyone.
I've done a couple of the assessment puzzles and its kinda nice to see what my skills are. At the same time, its difficult for my adhd because of low self esteem. When I fail one of the questions I feel unemployable. I've been coping with ADHD all my life, but after my last job was incredibly stressful and high pressure, I wonder whether I will be able to bounce back. I know work isn't really enjoyable for most people and thats just a reality. But I would love to wake up and not be dreading my work day every single day, feeling like I'm underperforming and then come home so burnt out that i can't even keep on top of basic self care
Hello alrighttubbleweed! By the name, I love your name :0) That sounds awful how exist on a daily basis. Some people are clearly more affected than others. You sound trapped in a job that is not doing you any good, in fact, making your life difficult. It took some courage for me to try something different to working in hotels. Originally I aiming for lifetime career, or starting a business, but being an introvert, hospitality is not a good choice of career for me. Buying a restaurant would have been like buying my own place in hell! Have you looked at your transferable skills? You can possibly use those skills in a different environment, one where you at least have the energy to have more fulfilling and relaxing home time.
I was a pharmacy tech for a while and it theoretically should have been perfect for me and I genuinely enjoyed all the tasks. However it was an awful work environment because we were so understaffed and instead of having the pharmacy close earlier, they had all of us working 50+ hour weeks, and my coworkers were very judgemental and gossipy about each other, so it felt like I was always one "masking failure" away from having them be mad at me. It didn't help that another tech, who was also autistic, was judged and treated poorly for her social mistakes and needing specific directions. (And this autistic coworker was.... Unfortunately homophobic, so the two of us never really "teamed up" due to my queerness.) Autistic people can do absolutely any job, but the other people there and the management are what make or break it 😅 I'm glad this company also trains employers!
Neurotypicals are illogical and small minded. They are easy to outsmart. Use that fantastic brain of yours for something other than a hat rack. Plan the conversation. If they are mean to you, give them a hard time back every time. Make fun of them. Make them look bad and they will be more careful of how they talk to you. Getting mad is the worst thing we can do to ourselves. Have some fun, make it where everyone laughs at the bully. If you keep a level head, this is not difficult for us. You may get me the first time, but I will be ready to put you in your place the next time. Example: This coworker said, if you dont like it, why dont you quit. I ask her if she runs from her problems. She said no. I ask, why would you give me advice that you yourself would not follow.
I also used to be a pharmacy tech and had the same issues you describe. My workplaces were quite toxic to begin with, but got so much worse from being targeted and bullied by people who also had severe cluster b personality disorders. Never had so many people spend so much time undermining their own team just to have control that nothing would ever change near them. My ASD and BPD were a pretty compelling beacon.
I know you might not see this but I really hope you do 🙏🏽 This goes together with career, and burnout…but can you make a video on autism and fear of success because of the worry at how routines might become too much or too different to adjust to? Of course I have no idea if you even relate to that, seeing as you have created something so big and impactful. But you’ve made so many videos that relate to my exact life experience and I was hoping that if this was something you’ve ever faced, do you can help give some insight or advice to it. Im realizing more now than ever that I’m actually scared of the change to my life and my possible needs that succeeding in career might bring.
One problem I've had is seeing many things/everything that creates waste or inefficiency, then repeatedly telling the people in charge that it's happening and we could make things better with these seemingly small changes, then eventually that step or program was the big idea of someone higher up and they feel threatened. Another problem is having a boss that expects something different than you or your skills, and thinks you'll "grow into it," not understanding that it's actually a weakness or inability. This also happens with relationships.
The inefficiency one drives me crazy about the corporate world. Before I realized I was AuDHD, I just couldn’t understand why it didn’t bother other people so much. So much of our societal structure and work requirements are absurd. There are so many social norms and status signaling aspects to it that are so unappealing to me. What are we even working towards if not to be more efficient and more affluent? Yet, efficiencies never translate to less hours worked or higher pay. The “new feudalism” theory definitely aligns with a lot of what I’ve experienced in the corporate world. It starts to make more “sense” once you understand that the purpose of your job is to make your manager look and feel good. Perceived competence and perceived value trumps actual competence and value in most environments, unfortunately.
I just got a job after 2 years of searching. I'm legally blind and can't drive due to a nerve defect that particularly affects the optic nerve. Somehow in 2 years I haven't even gotten to the interview until the company my mom works at had a customer service position. I have a master's degree and I couldn't even get to an interview. Honestly, given how I interviewed, I'm surprised they didn't turn me down but they've accepted me. I don't start until monday but here's hoping it works out. First job in six years and second job ever.
Congratulations on the job! Don't worry about the interviews- I've been terrible in interviews (REALLY terrible), gotten the job and been good at it. Good luck and have fun!
I like the point Aron made about how an employer can't accommodate us unless they know we're neurodivergent. I keep hearing, "Don't disclose to an employer unless you want to lose your job." But the fact is, I've lost jobs anyway because of communication problems that always rear their head, even though autism wasn't part of the discussion (because I didn't know I'm autistic). I think it makes a lot of sense to disclose. But I am new to knowing I'm autistic (less than two years) and haven't worked since knowing (I have a very young daughter who I'm home with), so I haven't been burned by disclosing yet, not in that way.
my mom always says that, with meeting women as well, "don't disclose unless you want to lose the opportunity right away", what kind of message does this send... So it's not OK to be me to begin with? And why would I want that job/woman then? Shouldn't you champion me, and support me in championing myself, as who I am, that this has value to others? I get it's about a realistic perspective and wanting you to succeed but it's still upside down logic that isn't logical. As you said, you'd lose it eventually, that's what this mindset is already betraying by saying "you can't keep something as long as you are you", well then that's the problem, not me. We need to change that then. How can we do that by partaking in this non sense. We need to promote self acceptance and for others to also accept us, then and only then can we have true lasting success in life's endeavours. I've accepted myself and approach life with the mindset of who I am, if something doesn't work out that's just a confirmation of what not to engage with anyway, and encourage you to seek out the right things, which will work out. At least you get to be you and you come from a honest standpoint of this is how it is, what other way can you live truly.
I'm 73, and I'm a retired medical IT specialist, most of which was clinical transcription. I loved my job. Medical texts were very interesting to me and I loved learning the terminology.
I have a different take on this in that I am older and retired. I am extremely grateful that I did not live in the age of labeling. It would have created limitations on my life, and I would not have had the boldness or probably the opportunity to do what I did for a living. My job was extremely stressful, I suffered burnout 3 times, I was thrilled when I was able to retire, but I survived. It was terribly hard. But that is what life is about. I accomplished amazing, unimaginable things far over and above my abilities. I coped the best I could. I didn't even know I was autistic until 12 years after I retired. I taught school for 34 years, 3 years high school and 31 years middle school. That is one tough job.
I’m glad i haven’t been forced into a more difficult life than what I already lead. What better sign of progress is there than future generations not having to go through the same hardships as you did?
Anyone else ASC in their 30s struggling to cope with the emotional toll of re-entering work after a while away (reclusive or otherwise), to cover up big CV/resume gaps and compensate for lack of skills, and with picking how/where to retrain? Also, is anyone having trouble motivating themselves to work in general, when you know it's inevitably going to set off ASC burnout, as well as incur constant high stress or attract bullying? I've worked on-off at awful jobs I was forced into from age 15-29, and after a couple of years out for illness I can't face it anymore...
Im now 53 and dont give a f. about how my resume looks to someone who i have no idea what theyre looking for. this is what ive done. this is what i can do. this is what i will do. and yeah. i am poor, but not broke or broken.
The CV should not be a chronological life story. It is a sales document telling prospective employers what you can do. The idea of the CV (resume), and cover letter if required, is to get you to an interview. Target the employer's needs, study the company values on their website, make sure their values match your values, and be certain that you can support what is on your CV and cover letter with evidence, anecdotes and examples for your own lived experience. Generally speaking, if you support and believe in the company's product or services, it is easier to talk about the potential job, yourself and how you would fit in in the work place. Disclosing autism or any kind of health issue would only be required if you think it will affect you in the workplace. You can say you like to be alone in your free time, and you can ask about situations that you know make you uncomfortable without disclosing your autism or Asperger's. 95% of NTs would not know what Autism and will invariably misunderstand it. Best to send out your scouts before sending in the whole battalion!
@@skog44 That's just the problem--marketing yourself is the whole point, and believe me, even if you just say/imply/show that you're generally a quiet or slightly sensitive type (without saying a word about ASC/ASD) almost no-one will want to hire you. Unless the field is highly-specialised and the workplace demands silence or low interaction (lmk what kind of jobs demand this). And that's not even getting into the CV gaps, if like me you've taken jobs with sketchy employers unwittingly (ASC people can be naive), been made redundant (ASC people aren't often social enough with colleagues or good self-advocates), or had to step away due to illness and burnout. My original comment is asking how to cover up or make plausible excuses for these things that employers will actually accept or buy, because most people are sadly still intolerant and judgemental when it comes to our needs.
@@pendafen7405 I have disclosed my stutter in job interviews (even though I can hide it quite well). Most people understand what a stutter is, so it is not so intimidating for employers. Until I started working with Autistic people I had no real concept of what it is and how people are affected. Paul's you-tube videos have helped me understand it a lot better, and even though I have been able to get jobs and work in teams, even lead at times, the situations that affect me the worst, are when I have absolutely no control. That is when I sometimes lose self control (executive function), leading to the occasional meltdown that affects everyone around me. It really resonates for a long time. That is what I am really afraid of..not having self control. Learning to managing that has taken me a long time, but it has been trial and error. I think one of the key issues is being able to predict the environments that cause lack of executive function. Learning how to navigate discussing this at a job interview is a skill that can be learned.
I have been struggling to find a job, particularly in my field of study. I've gotten to the point where I no longer want to even look at jobs, and don't want to do any of the ones I find. I imagine there may be many jobs out there that would be a great fit, but I have no way of finding them without wading through the massive number that are out there (not to mention somehow making it through the screening process, which seems to be impossible, even after working with professional employment coaches). And self-employment is a no-go, as I would have to do even MORE self-promoting to try and drum up clients, not to mention handle the business side of things... The future feels very bleak.
i have been chronically underemployed for several years, working retail and other jobs that are exhausting despite having a master's degree. and while i think my awkwardness and different communication style in interviews definitely doesn't help, i've barely gotten to that stage in more than a handful of positions when i've applied to well over a hundred jobs in the past year or two alone. so i really think it's likely more due to the gaps in my CV. but i just don't have the energy or the resources to fill those gaps, and nobody has offered me any chances.
I retired from the Military, as an engineer. Every few years I was transferred to a new job and as I was advanced, there was less personal social interaction. Also, being female and the rules against fraternization, kept me isolated, although I worked along side hundreds of people on ships. Being Autistic still eventually caught up with me, my being "off", which put people off and suspectful. I was always soon transferred to a different job and location. I did well overseas, in Japan, where I was considered a "Normal" Gaijin. I've become a recluse, since I retired from another job. I didn't fit in there at all, I was well-hated, but they kept me on because of my skills.
@@jennifercollinsbrever4898 Nice of you to ask...I clean. I clean after my animals, my garden, my house...I even dream about cleaning. I hate cleaning, but I hate messes more. What do you do, Jennifer?
@@jennifercollinsbrever4898 Do you ride on the Anxiety and Depression cycle? I get skinny and anxious when it's warm out and then fat and depressed when it's cold. One or the other, my brain is only equipped with First and Fourth gears. I move and think either too slow or too fast. Noise and smells and liars are my triggers.
@@judylandry302 I don’t know entirely? I have felt anxiety, especially when I don’t get outside enough. And I have experienced depression, normally when I’m not doing an outlet or creative enough. Your experience is interesting to me. I’m always curious about body systems and different people’s experiences.
Funny to compare this to my southamerican reality, where neurodivergence isn't even a thing yet. We don't legally exist and we're still expected to conform to a neurotypical work environment .😥
I know every situation is different, but I want to share my personal experience. I’m an autistic expat and I’ve worked in Ecuador, México, and Belize. In my experience with small villages, communities integrated autistic folks more readily than what I experienced in the United States. Since there’s no government assistance for disabled people, families seem more helpful than what I experienced in the US. Often, American families expect the government to do everything for disabled relatives, so they don’t do anything to help out. In the villages where I lived, all of the community members participate in work activities to the best of their abilities. However, in the US those disabled folks are separated from the community and they just watch from the sidelines or they stay home, because nobody thinks to include them.
Wow, yes… we need MAXIMUM PRODUCTIVITY in the west! Why employ someone whose even a bit less productive? So we just throw that person in the trash haha
Same here! I live in Switzerland and my work manager answered to my question "do we have neurodivergent managers or leaders at our company that I could get as a mentor?" first "What is that?" then I gave him some examples (ADHS, Autism spectrum, Dislexia, ...) and he then he answered "I am not aware of people's diagnosed mental states". I was taken aback and shocked by his ignorance and blunt stigmatising answer. Therefore I am currently looking for a new manager... and now also for a new job after seeing this video and checking out Xceptional 🙂
I don't know how to describe it in short, but my work efficiency dropped 90% when my responsibilities shifted during my career. Story time: I had formal education as a software developer, which was already not to my standard but in germany IT is often describe as a "new" technology. I started full time employment at a company in their software department. It was pretty nice in the beginning, since I could focus all my attention to the code, because the program was for the IT department itself. But slowly over time it turned from writing code to manage (internal) customers. This is a very dangerous step for any company to take imo, since it is already hard to quantify the usefulness of an IT department, giving a single non-technical employee full control over a technical employee hides costs even more. You can get stuck in an eternal development loop and high waiting times for both sides are very common. You need professional oversight to manage communication and expectations. Both sworn enemies of mine. Exhibit A: High prio ticket, that only contains an email from someone somewhere in the company that reads "that thingy thing button not working". That might be the language neurotypicals use and might be incredibely descriptive, but in my eyes is just garbage. But since I'm responsible for that software and everybody else is "busy with themselves" (sounds awefully familiar) it is my job to schedule meetings, write emails, be polite, accomodate people, lead meetings, write agendas... I'm basically a whole sub-company, while paying paid less, than a carpenter. Nothing against carpenters. High skilled job and very useful. But a carpenter doesn't replace whole departments. Software devs can and do. Oh, and all that talk about labour shortage. Nonesense. There are only one fact, companies don't want to hire for appropriate wages which in turn scares away potential students. A high-skill, high-stress job shouldn't pay so low, that you HAVE to share an flat with other people just to pay rent. That doesn't instill confidence or pride in a profession. A carpenter can at least save money by making their own furniture or even the entire house. All I can do is push data around and make funny colors blink on a piece of glass.
@@kutay8421 "Taking a different path" would require you to have any inkling as to what sort of skills you actually have. If you've spent all you have on one career because it's the one thing that it looks like you can do somewhat acceptably, suddenly having it ripped apart or otherwise taken from you can leave you without any clue on what to do next. Hence, if you have a career, but it has changed and is becoming painful, it's very hard to find the strength and courage to just quit and "take a different path", because what the Hell would that be and how do you know, that other path wouldn't end up even worse? You don't, and gambling with your own Fate is stressful and terrifying, especially when there are only vague, imprecise descriptions of what goes into a given career choice. Alternatively, you could find more info by socializing with people within a given career, but as the whole "socializing" is one of the major problems for Neurodivergent people, that is not a particularly good option either.
I tried everything but nothing worked to secure decent employment. Like bachelor's degree, electronics training going through Department of Rehab programs. Only work I did figure out was mobile mechanic work out of a truck. This was not real good because of back and knee problems. Three back surgeries and two knee surgeries with additional injuries that put me out of commission for multiple months at a time. 68 now living in a van on $400 SS, $400 supplemental and 102 food stamps. Like college and all the quote placement help simply did not work. Have no answers.
@@leahstaub1874 not disabled enough for goodwill. Like I got through one of the toughest universities in California. I did have some extreme academic weaknesses which actually became more of a problem towards the end of the program particularly since I was in constant pain from a back injury. Most of my professors thought that my academic difficulties were a result of character flaws. I was quite beaten down and in clinical depression by the time I graduated. Wasn't like I was enjoying much social success at the school. I did accomplish some things including help design a new computer registration system that made it fairer and easier to get the classes students needed to get through the school.
This was such a great vid! And awesome to hear about Xceptional, what a wonderful organisation! Currently self-employed as a gardener (great in terms of minimal/choosing my level of social interaction to a degree, physical work, and lots of outside time) but not really quite earning enough (very weather dependent in some cases). I keep thinking about taking on "formal" employment to earn more money/have more stable income to actually get a chance a living on my own but... I was basically forced out of my last job via bullying (had no idea I was autistic then - only self-dx) and I'm honestly crippled by the idea of it happening again - getting stuck somewhere horrific or "doing a bad job" bc how freaking confusing NTs are at "communicating" (as they seem to call it) or getting turned back into a lifeless zombie again; at the same time: I cannot stand where I live now. So... kind of dithering on the line of what to do, really... or even how to make to make the right decision! @_@
I have a PhD and 5 publications and can't find a job because I can't work full time. The public LIBRARY said I was not qualified to reshelve books.... I DEFENDED A PHD IN GEOLOGY. My struggle is a lack of flexibility on the employers side, I can't even get in the door because I don't fit the cookie cutter. I'm shocked at how LITTLE movement there has been on the side of employers, it seems they would rather go broke!
My largest obstacles I foresee for myself in the future are bad/indirect/not in writing communication, overwhelming work environment, navigating the people there, and flexible work place/hours.
Thank you! I was asked to send a CV to a neurodivergent based business recently, after I'd approached them to see if they had anything available. I haven't had any response at all though and it's been a week. My CV wasn't in the traditional format with a layout of dates attached to each organisation. I focused on my skills and experience. I've followed up this morning and hope to hear back. I'll definitely be checking out Xceptional ❤
@@Angel-se4zm it wasn't an interview. They asked for my CV. I sent it and didn't get any reply. They replied yesterday after I messaged to check that they're flat out with school holiday activities. So it's all good. I'll just wait another week or so until they're able to respond. My brain was having a hard time of relaxing about it.
Sorry for being a bit random and long here 😁that's my specialty 😅...anyhow on a serious note....I have been doing a lot of research on ASD/ ADHD etc combos in many of us....now one thing that JUMPED OUT AT ME ,besides annoyance at the insistence of a badly stereotyped profile of ADHD as being mainly of males who are semi criminal borderline addicts who are right off the wall, over represented in prison ,in addictions, anti social behaviour, defiance, oppositional , all things etc...worst of worse of zero impulse control etc etc etc 🙄typical public perception ( as that is how it's described online) .This stereotype is really really damaging, and may be a huge reflection of reality for employers and employment seekers. Employers who thought they were getting a slightly hyperfocused bouncy distractable earnest genius,but got something totally totally different. As a woman with ADHD /ASD I find this very frustrating this common borderline impulsive addict criminal stereotype conflation so dangerous and rife, it erases a huge chunk of us who are pedantic rule followers,very well behaved, extremely pro social ,higher than average empathy and higher than average tendencies towards civic duty ,fighting injustice etc. Those are things unique to many of our cores and are really over represented amoung us ...we tend to be de facto altruists because we really can't do dissonance so much. Not well.Its very tough. However I see that there is a huge AMOUNT of lack of care, resources,advocacy for people who aren't genetically ADHD, aren't ASD, have no strong family links to it. The poor victims who are deeply and permanently disabled by FAS. Foetal Alcohol Disorder. It probably takes the lion's share of misdiagnosis as ADHD ,however it plays on similar presentations on the severe end of behavioural challenges,cognitive and authority challenges. It's epidemic amoung so many populations exposed to pre natal 🍷drinking ( no safe limits exist) and is also a spectrum.... It seems rife in the UK in disparate populations..as some pre natal drinking is the norm, as a result you have greater anti social and severe behaviour problems in that population. For example in huge cultural drinking populations pre natal alcohol avoidance isn't taught as something very serious and to avoid all costs...women are shockingly told best to TRY to avoid alcohol...but lots of pregnancies are ones where mild to severe sustained substance use exists. In countries like Canada, Australia NZ where indigenous were grotesquely treated under colonialism and residential schools from hell caused huge epidemics of alcohol and substance misuse on vulnerable reserves , traumatised populations ...from that poverty,substance, vulnerability, a huge over representation of prisoners who are indigenous and likely suffering from the effects of FAS undiagnosed as they don't have exterior appearances that indicate severe FAS. This would be similar for at risk impoverished heavy 🍷 drinking populations in Britain, or anywhere where it's rife. ADHD mimicking behaviours ,PTSD, anxiety, deprivation and ASPD will be rife in these communities leading to tragedy and incarnation. Now to me, blending a lot of undiagnosed FAS victims into Neurodiversity is really really damaging, both ways.FAS is grossly ignored, underserved, untreated,under recognised and this is really serious as it's probably far far more common than us who inherit genes or had genes activated early on. There may be 100% symptom , behaviour overlaps, but vast differences too .(unless there is already neurodiverse genetic pre disposition in family of non 🍷drinking mother's, then you can have the full gamut. ) So my fear is that without raising the profile of FAS victims separately , the most severe profiles of FAS victims struggle badly undiagnosed or were likely misdiagnosed as neurodiverse. FAS victims are brutally underserved,need huge advocacy. PR etc. But careless diagnosis and lazy misdiagnosis would be putting the fear into employers who may have employed someone who has intense FAS but was improperly diagnosed ADHD,ASD and really wasn't fit to work without really specialised FAS support. This is where things have a huge potential to backfire around employers getting nervous. In summary I really hope someone can run with FAS victims and start equal advocacy and support services...as it's really a serious tragic injury during foetal development, like a head trauma is, that creates their awful symptoms and poor life chances. They need a huge uplift and some really bespoke care, justice!
I had no idea I was ASD+iADHD until last year. I had a special interest growing up (history) which I wanted to pursue in college, but was denied being able to do so because I couldn't explain how I could use the degree to directly find gainful full-time employment. I didn't have enough experience with the field to know what kind of careers were available. I was already apathetic about school so this didn't help. I dutifully went to college in pursuit a field that kind of interested me, but which I was not passionate about and which required lots of prerequisites I struggled with (probably in no small part due to what I only learned much later is probably dyscalculia). I worked at a library because I liked books. I was okay at it, but I didn't like the customer service aspect. I worked for a small business where I was the only full-time employee and I could often listen to music while working. My attention to detail was useful for parts of the job, but some of the work was tediously repetitive. I can't compartmentalize so I found myself often mentally taking projects home with me, despite the fact that I couldn't actually do any of the work at home even if I wanted to. I finally went back to college in pursuit of my special interest, not quite sure what I would do with the degree. I excelled at the classes, graduated with honors, and stumbled into a job that is a great fit for me (museum archives). It fits both my talents and my interests, I don't mind taking work home with me because I love most of what I do, and I am well-respected by professional peers. I feel that "follow your passion" is particularly important for ASD. (The fact that my three main jobs lasted about 7 years, 6 years, and 10+ years are one of the reasons people insisted I couldn't possible have any mental conditions.)
I had a similar experience to yours. I even worked in a library for awhile. My passion is really archeology, not the stuff I was encourage to go to school for so that I could get a job. I didn't actually graduate because of various problems I now see were related to my then unknown AuDHD. I wish I had the money to go back to school now, but am not able to find employment.
The longest I worked anywhere was 4 years, and that was because it was a family run hotel and I was treated like family. When I broke away from there my longest full time role was again 4 years, working with troubled youth on a night shift while I studied in the day. Nearly retired now so I can't even count the number of jobs I have had, let alone the different industries and sectors I worked in. My attitude developed into thinking that the world of work is like a forest of fruit, so I have been foraging my way through life, while becoming skilled at writing cvs and doing interviews.
That's good. I think any kind of degree teaches academic writing, how to organise your free time and how to present. It doesn't really matter what you study, but ideally it will be something that interests you. I paid for each paper before I started it, and only had a small loan towards the end. Anthropology introduced me to Joseph Campbell. His catch phrase was "Follow your Bliss". I agree, it is important for anyone to do that, but especially for autistic people.
I never understood why i could not keep a job. The jobs i was able to keep were security jobs where my schedule was 11-7am, overnight shift. I have 2 degrees and left multiple high paying managerial jobs. sitting in cubicles, busy offices, sitting in meetings all day, report deadlines, supervising staff and coordinating with other departments was nightmarish for me. I walked off of a 110K job because my boss humiliated me in front of my subordinates. I am a professional organist on the side and never had a problem making money. I know now that I am neuro-divergent, possibly functioning autistic. I work multiple security jobs where i have little to NO human interaction. I wish I could work the jobs that i want, and have the career that I dreamed of having, but i am who i am.
Thank you Paul, I have been watching you for some time now. I used to work as an employment consultant for people with disabilities. It was government funded work but with KPIs. It used to be not for profit, but shortly after I joined the organisation, it changed to profit oriented (supposedly to improve efficiency and refine competition between similar organisations). The unrealistic goals (kpis) and narcissism among management who kept looking at themselves instead of listening to the needs of consultants and of course their clients, is what finally drove me to edge. 8nhad a minor meltdown myself and have resorted to driving a truck, where I have more control over my daily situations. Road rules are a good structure. I had some successes in finding work for autistic people. It involved taking time to get to know the individuals and discovering their strengths and weaknesses, like you would for any other person. I took a holistic approach by looking at the clients situation on the home front, what factors affect him or her, whether the person has a licence (which is always a huge factor), what the person's triggers are, the environments where the person feels most comfortable or uncomfortable and of course why the person is passionate about. I also asked what difficulties the person would like to overcome and we discussed how to do that and how far we could push that boundary. We naturally had to be transparent with prospective employers and I would also check the company website and company policies to determine whether the company values match or are similar to the clients own values. If they don't match, there is a good chance the employment will not be sustainable. With regards to tests and puzzles, I did not use that methodology. Instead I would tailor the CV to amalgamate the job description and the applicants abilities and interests. The cover letter is based on the job description and the CV so when at interview the applicant can framework to support questions and answers at interview. With regards to gaps in the CV, I would not create chronological CVs and would focus on skills, experiences and time spent in different roles, no dates, no date of births and no photographs of the client. I would never put clients exact address, just the area where the person lives. The employer does not need to know any of that information. So, in my view, the CV is a way to filter employers. If the employer wants to know about dates and gaps in the CV, then it is probably not the right employer. I taught my clients to be active and critical job hunters when looking for work, not to be passive recipients of the employers scrutiny. The CV, cover letter and interview prep is the foundation for whether or not the person gets the right job and the employer gets the right employee. Employers will want their interests spiked and the will also want to be challenged (politely) when at interview. So my approach was to help the client identify his or her strengths and abilities, recognize their weaker points, get them to challenge themselves on those weaker points and teach them to challenge the employer by asking the right questions when at interview. That all takes a lot of time, but I think for long term success and stability for both client and employer, it is the best way. Government KPIs are not a good motivator, employment consultant and their manager's are not what is important, the client's goals and helping them reach those goals are what really counts.
Yes, the approach you describe definitely works! I used to have a similar role helping long term unemployed folks access the labour market. Found that the '3rd sector ' (non profit organizations) was the most welcoming for my clients as mainstream capitalist employers seemed so inflexible, unwilling even to offer a work trial to a person who seems a little eccentric.
I was pushed for years to customer service although I have panic attacks and depressive episodes I was always told I’m too dramatic and too sensitive. I often have heart palpitations and stomach pains when having to interact with a customer. Others seem to not take things this way. Now I’m not sure what to do. I have a degree from logistics and experience as a warehouse manager which was a really great job for me! I loved it and I didn’t even feel much tired after a working day and the boss was satisfied. I know I need something like this without telling anyone in the family or at work I could be on the spectrum.
Talking about accommodations, my biggest complaint with my jobs is not having a quiet place to go while on break. A 15 minute Power Nap (head on the table) can work wonders. But in most cases every room has a loud tv on, or music piped through speakers, etc.
I'll never get why a radio or TV needs to be on in every damn place you go in society lol, what's the deal here... people want that? I've figured it's something about people having a need for stimulation and needing it amped up more so than lowered down, as if they are lacking in it, while for us it might be too high already so we'd prefer to have it lowered, so no radio/TV which only adds to a stimulation already too high
Oh em gee. That’s me . I love my job nursing in operating room because it’s challenging but I don’t like the chit chat with people especially at lunch break and I wished I could just have a quick nap even 15 mins i could sustain a 12 hour shifts. I get burnt out daily from my job I am now looking for a more flying solo type of nursing job.
Great interview. I'm particularly glad he made clear that we can do anything - including management. I'm retired now but had many years as a senior manager. I found autism actually helped me. So bravo, and thanks for your always excellent content!
I found my dream job as a UX Researcher. I get to learn things and then infodump about all the things I learned. As an autistic person I’m hyper detail oriented. I am very creative and love solving problems and helping others. I get to work from home too. While I do work in tech, my job is still very much a people job. I love learning about psychology and how people make decisions! I had a slew of jobs and I hated most of them and bombed them miserably even though I am the stereotypical “so intelligent and so much potential, straight As but can’t do basic jobs.”
It helps if employers are actually honest about what they are willing to do. However much I explain, however minimal the adjustments, and however many promises are made, they invariably change their minds the moment they realise that a little actual effort is required. I've applied to a lot of places too that are a part of guaranteed interview schemes and I've never been offered one.
I've been out of work for 4 months. I recently discovered that I was autistic about 6 months ago. I've had a lot of interviews but no offers yet. It is extremely frustrating.
I am so glad that people are starting to shed their misunderstandings about autism and adhd, while also being supremely frustrated with the fact it took so long to get here, and how much further there is to go.
Great interview and advocacy, Paul & Aron. 👏🏼 Seriously would love to see you have a platform to parliament! This country needs major reforms to recruitment processes to better accommodate neurodivergent people.
The hardest part is to get an autism medical diagnosis certified tested by a professional doctor resulting in a lack of medical autism resources here in the USA.
I'm glad you're referring to non-neurotypicals as neurodivergent. I haaaate when people use "neurodiverse" for that - that's a good word, but it means a mix of different neurotypes, not non-neurotypical people! A single person cannot be neurodiverse! Everyone has only one neurotype (even if they have multiple abnormalities, a hybrid type is still only one type)! A lot of people seem afraid to use "divergent", as if diverging from the norm is something shameful that needs to be denied or hidden behind a deceptive word.
I'm fairly sure I landed on my perfect job. I'm a software consultant specialising in GIS and Civil Engineering. I've been trying to get my company to set up a Neurodivergance Council so we can help my fellow ND's and also look for more NDs to work for us. No joy yet, but I'll keep pushing
The division of vocational rehabilitation helped me get my bachelors degree and TEFL certificate. Now I can organize my own schedule. It took time to get my own private students, but now I’m really grateful. I don’t get any government assistance anymore. I’m independent.
I’ve also worked abroad at times, and while it was very difficult in some ways… in other ways it was nice to be in a community where everyone was so different from me. Locals overlook my weirdness because they already expect foreigners to be weird.
Thank you so much for your interview! I live in Switzerland and my work manager answered to my question "do we have neurodivergent managers or leaders at our company that I could get as a mentor?" first "What is neurodivergent?" and then, after I gave him some examples (ADHS, Autism spectrum, Dislexia, ...), he said "I am not aware of people's diagnosed mental states at our company". I was taken aback and shocked by his ignorance and stigmatising answer. Therefore I am currently looking for a new manager... and now also for a new job after seeing this video and checking out Xceptional 🙂
Jobs, yes… The bottom line is your there to make bosses money in a timely and efficient manner and to fit in socially. I find they rarely care about the struggles I have. There is a massive lack of support, especially from Centrelink when trying to navigate the difficulties of employment.
Some of the jobs I have personally enjoyed are tutor, pizza, delivery driver, DoorDash driver, and shelf stocking. With the delivery jobs it does take a toll on your car though so weight that in your decision if you go this route. Try to have some money set aside for repairs.
His work is very valuable. I often thought why not employ ourselves more, I was not successful in building a profitable gig for myself. The work for me is actually often doable apart from learning, focus and speed issues, but all the rest leaves me in either burnout or panic, particularly the social misunderstanding. Thanks for the information, this is hope.
As long as employers rely on AI and examinations that restrict time - with questions that are designed to trick you as a way to detect your analytical skills - many creative and intelligent candidates will be screened out. I applaud what this man is trying to accomplish, but we are a long way from what he is talking about here, at least in technology and finance. My take away from this video is that not much is new and government is the largest, perhaps only, employer of neurodiverse people.
I used to be a hiring manager and I loved being able to defend neurodivergent candidates. When the other people on the panel would say things like “she didn’t give much eye contact” I’d say “I don’t think that matters too much for this role. She seems to have a lot of skills that we need for this” etc. etc. The neurodivergent candidates weren’t always the ones I hired. But I made sure to speak up when potentially autistic traits were seen as a “con”.
I recently worked out that indeed I am more than likely to be in the autism spectrum; although I have had symptoms of autism my whole life; I currently drive a maxi cab in regional NSW and also work at a local servo for more than 30 hours per week……my boss at the servo knows I have some issues and is accepting of it; wonderful to see more neurodiverse people attaining and maintaining employment; on the flip side it’s awesome to know employers are accommodating towards people that may have differences….love my current role but would switch into banking and finance if given the opportunity given my strong ability to learn and retain information, ability to relate and communicate with people from all backgrounds, and willingness to complete formal qualifications and train within different areas of a business to expand my skill set. Mitch, Casino NSW
Some thoughts: 1. Most of the time, even I don't know what accommodations I need. I just know it helps to have a helper who can work with me in accordance with my pace and thoroughness, and that I do not do well with confrontational people or conflicting/vague information. Please be specific, and forgive me if I do not have nerves of steel or if I take awhile to get my thoughts together. 2. Working from home is not that viable for me because I live with roommates and sometimes/often have visitors, and roommates and visitors are noisy and tend to interrupt. I need something that gets me AWAY from the apartment. At least at a workplace I have to commute to, the noise and interruptions tend to be related to the work at hand.
I’m still undiagnosed autistic, but on all the tests I’ve taken, I score very far into the likely autistic end of the scores, and hearing other autistic people talk about their experiences, it’s the only time in my life where I feel like I’m understood and that they must be talking about my life and not theirs, so I’m 99.9% sure. Most of my life I’ve worked at minimum wage jobs, mostly in the service industry. A few jobs I’ve worked for under minimum wage, either because I was too young or because it was interesting and I was being exploited without really realizing it or doing anything about it. I’ve spent years doing things like delivering pizza, delivering tires, or being a chauffeur. I was excellent at all of them, but some employers didn’t always recognize it or took it for granted (and at least one even went out of business after I left because no one else could do what I did to bring in business). I just turned 50 this year, and 5.5 years ago I started working in cybersecurity after a chance encounter working with someone in the industry while helping someone recover their hacked website. It took me just a few minutes to identify how it was hacked and where all the files they used were on the system, and the person I was working with asked if I ever wanted to work in the field because the things I was doing were things you can’t really teach someone how to do, and he thought I was very good - so he would open some doors if I ever wanted to move to his region and enter the industry. I never knew that was an option, so I’d never considered it before, but it sounded interesting so I decided to pursue it. I spent a few years sending out resumes/CV’s and getting no responses from anyone. I finally got a friend who’d known me since high school to get my resume in front of someone at his company, bypassing the normal initial review process, and after an initial phone interview, they requested a different resume that was more traditionally formatted, and after I sent that in, they set up a group interview with the team minus my friend because he wouldn’t be involved in the process since he knew me. Everyone liked me in the interview, so they made an offer and I took it. I’ve had several substantial raises and a promotion since then and I still get among the most positive feedback from everyone at the company of anyone in the department. I was even nominated for the highest annual award at the company in my 3rd year - only one person gets that award each year and only a dozen or so out of our ~2,800 employees get nominated. I also regularly receive the highest evaluations in my quarterly and annual reviews, so it seems like they’re happy with me, and I mostly enjoy the work and like the company and enjoy almost all the people I work with, so it’s been a pretty good match. I wonder if now I would be able to get interviewed by anyone else or if I’d still find myself ignored by all the AI pre-screening software everyone seems to use these days and not be able to get my resume even seen by human eyes. I seem to really struggle with that initial part - getting noticed and being selected for an interview, but once I work for someone, it’s almost always universally positive and glowing reviews. So I must really suck at first impressions or conveying what I bring to the table. I suspect that’s probably because I don’t know what I bring to the table, or I don’t think I bring anything to the table. I can tell you what my work history has been, but I can’t tell you what I can do because I don’t know what will be needed until I’m working. I just look at what my job is, what the company needs, and try to think of better or more efficient ways to do the things I’m asked to do, or smarter ways to do things that will improve the business, give the customers a better experience, or make better products, and look for the best and most efficient ways to do those things. To me that isn’t “value” that I’m bringing to the table, though. From my point of view, I’m just doing my job and working. It’s nothing fancy and there aren’t any frills, I just put a lot of effort into finding ways to be exceptional and how to excel at what I do and make my company excel in what it does. But it seems to me that that should basically describe everyone who works somewhere, so it’s nothing to call out or draw attention to or highlight. It’s just doing my job. The feedback I get seems to suggest that it’s not, but since I can’t really see it any other way, I don’t know how to sell myself or show someone what they’d get if they hired me until they do and see it for themselves. At least that’s been my experience.
Seems like your perseverence and natural (social and mental) defence reflexes pushed you to the path of cybersecurity. For most ASD this is the outcome. In IT engineering software or etc. We stregthen to COPE UP. And the jobs we excel mostly are the ones in which we use our natural surviving techniques. The techniques which we may not like to do, but need to survive.
Going through these responses to see if I am the only one to post something this long. The length of your post has me deciding to post my story. As to yours, you can clearly write very well. It may or may not be common in the neurodivergent, but it is an ability I have too.
That is amazing! Here in Brazil there a new company with the same purpose that presented in this video, the name is aTip, they focus in neurodivergent people.
recently figured out i am probably autistic and am on a (SIX MONTH) waitlist for a proper diagnosis. my psychologist and i have gone through the criteria and i meet it strongly, as well as OCD. it has shaken my world. growing up, i could never imagine myself with a job because it was just Too Much. i am currently going to university and hope to become a history professor :) i was told by my psychologist that i should change my psychiatrist because he said i "don't act like the autistic people he knows and am too well spoken so i cannot have autism or ocd." it sent me into a spiral and i shut down for days. i wish more people educated themselves, especially medical professionals whose jobs are to help us. it hurt so much.
One thing I’ve found really helpful for job interviews is having a trial of the job for an hour before the interview. You get to try the job, see if you like it and the people and I’ve found I’m much less nervous after. I found out I was autistic at 20 but I still had bad job experiences like having multiple meltdowns in my waitressing job and having to quit from being burnt out.
Thank you for sharing this video. I thank you Aron for developing a company for autistic people because you are saying people a life of job heart ache.
I thought theater and performing arts would be good for autistic persons, and although they have given me more confidence, making a living way that is not reliable.
Yeah, it's sad that the more creative & artistic ASC/ASD people usually struggle even more than an NT to find work that is fulfilling, because the field is so unstable, competitive, demanding and low-paid. Autistic people often can't deal well with intense stress, social scrutiny, hustling to make a dime or unsafe/unpleasant living conditions at the best of times, and that is what performing arts entails for most.
There are 3 autistic men in my immediate family, me and my two sons. All of us are among the best at any job you throw at us. Two of us are under employed working as skilled labor.
In Ontario, Canada... my brother... talented and would love to find the right group and employment for him to enjoy and contribute with. 😊 Hope a network evolves out of this and I believe it will grow to that.
I'm 37 and have had engineering jobs and excel at focusing on tasks on the computer. Just got diagnosed with autism (level 1), ADHD, and anxiety a few months ago. My main issues have been avoiding going down rabbit holes, not communicating verbally enough to coworkers (prefer chat and email), and have been hesitant to take on managerial roles because I don't think I'd like it or be good at it.
It always makes me uncomfortable to think that I will be judged by other people before getting a job and that their impression of me is really important. I'm a medical student and the final exam only consists of three orals that aren't related to what I learned during my studies. One I have to present an image (for example a painting), one a current event by annalysing a text and the last one is a discussion with the professors. It reminds me that in the future even after this exam others will always take those skills as granted and think that I'm not doing my job well enough.
I’ve given up - after a decade in the UK jumping through hoops of application writing (exhausts my executive functioning and exposes my Swiss cheese of a cv) rejections (that drove me to suicidal thoughts and expressions ) occasional interview (un-imitgated disaster when a random question made worse by zoom or if i dare ask for accommodations they are dismissed or I am verbal threatened) i have put myself through multiply employment agencies proporting to help me but all they do is lecture me - i was told at the age of 40+ at my ASD assessment to give up and after months I did - i am now homeless and living illegally(because my passport renewal has been delayed by almost a year) in a foreign country (still better than the UK!) trying to put off returning to a situation will kill me - re-writing my CV for the thousandth time isn’t a solution
Frankly I get it I used to do hundred mile marches have disability knees spine etc and 53 and they were bullying me using CBT and saying I needed work ethics. I was in winning uk military endurance competitions. They are viscius toxic people mine was reeds partnership and they infantalised me. I’m more Intelligent than their middle class psych abuse . I’ve been suicidal ended up sectioned and was denied pip on multiple misdiagnosis and discriminations. I want out of UK too but got nowhere to run and with disability no money if I need medical help
UK gov were pulled for gravely violating the human rights of the dick and disabled by both UN and ECHR but no one’s protecting us and nothing is changing . I use my spare time as an activist but they are trolling my fb getting me silenced FB has no disability protections re disability discrimination and allows blatant trolling and abuse by narcissists and fascists and outright Nazis. We need help in UK they pretend to help us but it’s psych bullying and punishment snd beaurocracy
And no I have no family support they abused me too. Autism in UK is appalling if you are working class. Cruel bullying and hanging up and fog piling ulus encouraged and the mainstream media and MPs actively encourage it . Though mine has supported me on some issues
I am a cafeteria lady in headstart. Thinking about runnin an icecream truck during summer break. Perfect! (i was a paralegal :], librarian :), bartender& waitress :#, and construction worker :). Being 'ma' is best.)
Thanks so much for doing this interview, it's great to know that Australia has something like this. In the U.S. the government combined with academia is actively complicit in harming professional opportunities for those who are differently abled in general- and especially those who are neurodiverse. That's my experience... Repeatedly. And at a variety of positions. It's rather horrifying. I have no idea what CV's are- I've never heard this term. Also, there's a HUGE difference between "jobs", and careers. I was once involved with a government care organization which involved adults. When they didn't keep the majority doing the thorzine shuffle in the general equivalent of adult day care, they made a habit of boasting about procuring "jobs" of the most menial and meaningless capacity. Drive through worker, janitor, etc. For my part I am state licensed in my career field currently, and have experience; though labor and employment systems are so corrupt and exploitive, that I'm currently working retail in the very rural wilderness desert area where I stay after experiencing a hostile work environment, bullying, and what essentially amounts to constructive discharge (technically illegal). Essentially: only the wicked, violent, and deliberately negligent prevail. The only way to not be killed (literally starved to death) by this majority is to become it yourself... And if you cannot do that convincingly enough- to stay well away from this majority (in my experience). Thank you for sharing, this is a beacon in a very dismal social reality.
Most of the time, when talking about jobs for autistic people, it seems like it's about people with the asperger kind of presentation. I have yet to find good and extensive info for people who have more of a PDA kind of presentation or people with both autism and ADHD.
Thanks for this very positive video - I have reasonable adjustments at work to help my productively and sanity as a busy Work Coach! I have noise cancelling headphones, sometimes the benefit of a private office plus longer appointments with my customers.
im not sure I agree that employers need to be told to accommodate, they could give choices to everyone but they rarely bother unless you jump up and down about it, then you become "difficult"
This is important but before even talking about this I'll say that I find the idea of having a job unrealistic to begin with, despite having worked for many years of my life prior. I burned out eventually and my autistic challenges have only grown since, add in age and it doesn't get easier. Starting a business would be a step further, so that's a total fantasy. With social challenges, and making breakfast being a legit challenge, that's not something I can wrap my head around, and I'm so confused on how Neurodivergent people would do this, to even get beyond the point of self-care and basic survival taking all your resources and time. I have had success, don't get me wrong I know there's a way to achieve that, but long-term is another thing. Having the stability to function and keep that up in the long run would require a lot of support and accommodation in both private and professional life, and while I've had that to some degree at certain times in life, it never lasts. Things change, environments change, people come and go, and the support doesn't necessarily carry over. Even in stable situations people think after a while you no longer need it, as if I'm suddenly not Autistic or became normal. The better you perform the more it will seem that way, and with the stability and support in place you will perform well, and better with time, but only because it is there. Then there's the lack of knowledge which means they might not really understand what or why you need to begin with, or even believe it. My focus has shifted from a success perspective to a survival perspective, and it's gonna stay that way until I am shown that people have the mentality and knowledge to make it safe and worth going back "out there". Whether that be private aspects or sociopolitical aspects, it's all the same issue, Autism is not understood and supported, let alone valued.
I'm an embedded systems engineer with a strong focus on the software side of things. My specialty is in making sure that all of the choices made when creating a product, be it a physical product or not, serve to progress the team towards the clearly defined goals and expectations of the product within its expected lifetime, including the R&D side. Is this choice going to be beneficial to us as we develop? What are the costs/trade-offs of that choice? If the choice hurts the product as a commercial endeavor but makes it more feasible to develop, is that worth it? Do we need to find something else or do we need to scrap the project early on as a result of a lack of viable options? I also am quite adept at embedded software development, knowing how to identify potential problem areas before problems arise, as well as diagnose problems when issues do occur. I've been unemployed for a while now, seeking jobs as my job currently. The biggest hurdle I've got is getting my foot in the door. It seems no matter how qualified I am for a job, nobody will really give me a chance. The moment I have an interview with them though, they seem to love me and want me, it just turns out that they want someone else instead. I understand, that's part of the process, I just wish I could get into more interviews instead of not being able to get past the resume stage (step 0, if you will). I've gotten nothing but positive feedback from interviewers and technical recruiters, so I don't know where I'm going wrong, and I'm starting to get the feeling it has to do with my neurodivergence as a result of the pretty strong difference in communication styles. Maybe it doesn't though, who knows?
Any experience on autistics with no particular fixations/obsessions? I do have interests, yes. But i wouldn't call myself obessed or particularily very knowledgeable about my interests. A neurotyoical sharing the same interest would know more than me
Hey, can you do a video on non-sexual physical intimacy and kissing? I'm 9 months sober of alcohol and so even though I'm married with a kid, we are starting to get intimate again and that kissing anxiety is back in full force. I have also thought about writing a blog article about kissing for autistics, but we've been together 12 years and I feel like I've literally forgotten what a "first kiss" is like. Thanks.
Then add chronic illness and disability to autism especially when you “look fine” and now I have no idea what to do. When there’s not enough jobs for healthy, able bodies, NT people then my son and I don’t have a chance.
I'm autistic and a welder/fabricator, I will say it's got its upside and downs for autistic people, recommendation is bring earbuds to listen to stuff if your allowed to as it is noisy in metal shops, also it's blue collar so sometimes you need to ignore some comments from coworkers, honestly though the good side is if 6ou become a well trusted employee your mostly left alone, I spend many days in my booth helmet down the whole day welding and fab work, if your employer knows your not slacking they won't bother you and you can focus on tasks, plus a lot of other welders are also antisocial, they won't go out of there way to come bother you, biggest hill I will say for some autistic people, it's a never work from home job and not the most flexible hours, like my job let's me take time off if I need it but by flexible I mean like I'm a night owl but my shift starts at 7am no change can be made, it's a small annoyance to me but might cause more problems for other autistic people
For my profession it is expected to be flexible and to be able to be burdened (in german: belastbar), both is a problem for neurodiverse people. If there are comorbidities, it's even not possible to work 40 or 20 hours, but there are no jobs with less hours. So, sometimes it's not the job, but the circumstances that make employment difficult.
well said, often they come hand in hand, like we could potentially do the job itself, but it's everything that comes with it as a default rule that is the problem. Like in schools you could learn well but because of the structure of it all it doesn't suit you so you don't get to focus and excel as easily on the learning part. This structure is not made for you, then that's a problem. I used to be a chef and I'm super talented and effective at the tasks themselves, but it's everything else that is not suited for me at all
@Dezzyx: Yes and the communication with neurotypical colleagues is often difficult as well. Paul mentioned this too in a video about his job as an engineer. If there would be more (or even some) knowledge about what neurodivers meens and needs, it would be better. But that's not how business works. But perhaps the community itself has to start to clear up about our needs and our talents!
My nephew is has aspergers high functioning. Hes 24 never worked and has no social skills. I worry about him. I think he's been bullied before at school & college. He sits in his bedroom all day reading books. Mum and Dad seem to think he's unemployable and has no chance of meeting a nice partner.
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I'm 74, autistic and a retired plumbing contractor. I knew at an early age I didn't play well with others, so I chose a career that had me self-employed and working alone. I made bank, retired early and bought a small spread in Texas, where I spend my time happily alone, building windmills and steam engines for fun. I'm very creative and LOVE being autistic.
Sounds very good!
Wish me luck, brother!
Can we see them? Start filming some of it! Only if you are comfortable with it.
Oh wait, you do! Going to watch some now.
@@ssocar96 😊
The issue for me is that workplaces are often so very competitive - i'm often not finding 'supportive' management, just demanding management who writes me off because i dont communicate with enough smooth confidence.
yeah, looking at skills? not so much a trend in the us as far as i can tell. they'd still rather leave positions open and make people work long hours than hire young people. and with the mass tech layoffs? ugg
I thought I was super good at interviews for decades. Then, after my late diagnosis, and after looking back on my life, I finally realized I have never had a job that someone else didn't help me get. LOL! Turns out, I'm terrible at interviews, but you'll love me once you get to know me! LOL!
Are you me?
Same the only jobs I’ve ever had were essentially entry levels jobs even though I was considered intelligent. The few advanced jobs were gotten for me by a friend. Which is fairly common I hear.
I didn’t know I was autistic until my late thirties and my career choices have been HILARIOUS in hindsight.
I’ve been a waiter (WAY too social) a chef (extremely stressful), a sushi chef (waiter and chef simultaneously) and a musician who gets up in front of people and performs. (Both social and stressful)
Now I do musical instrument repair and work from home 3/5ths of the week. It’s PERFECT because I’m still forced to interact socially two days a week so I don’t become a total recluse, but I’m at home enough to feel like I generally have control over my surroundings.
I was always really happy working in recording studios, sound engineering at live shows, and doing video editing. Since childhood I’ve always been drawn towards the “behind the scenes” jobs. I LOVE art but I’m not a big fan of being the center of attention.
What are the tasks you do at home when it comes to music repair?
What fuel your passion to participate - as in be part of a team of creatives in order for a thing to be performed or expressed, enjoyed and shared?
Do you sometimes feel like you know enough about the final value of the outcome of that which you are part in realising - that it itself render you a sense of acheivement?
Or is it only for the money? ;)
Finding a good balance between "good work" and "job" - payed while stimulated to do ones best for deeper reasons - is part of the challenge for many supremely excellent people.
Participating in enabling a greater understanding of oneself - enables others to understand us - which leads to us participating in a future where those who are similar to us, doen't have to go through the struggles in the same way we did.
That's happening in the sublime un-accounted for resolution of humanity identifying the strengths of a broader range of individual characteristics.
We are all different - we all have something to contribute.
All the best!
❤
PS. Play with it - or not - what will be, will be. :) th-cam.com/video/3zKaHp0zW7U/w-d-xo.html
@@toni2309 Just general repairs, maintenance, restoration, and customization for stringed instruments like guitars, basses, ukes, etc. It’s a little bit of everything from woodwork to electronics.
@@atomicbong7597 My passion for creativity is driven purely by my love of art. I did it for free for many, many years before I ever got paid for it. ..and my favorite projects are still the ones I do at home just for fun.
If I had the chance to be a famous musician, I absolutely wouldn’t take it. I have no interest in getting all that attention or money. As long as I can be creative and my bills are paid, I’m a happy person. ☺️
@@clicheguevara5282 👍
Anyone preparing for a job interview.. it makes the whole world of difference to do a "test run". Check out the route, go inside the building. Research interview questions, practice responses in front of a mirror. Record yourself and play it back over and over so it sinks in. Ask a friend to interview you. Have everything ready in advance. Have a good night sleep, eat a nice breakfast, arrive 1 hr early, go for a coffee, listen to some nice music. The more relaxed and at ease you are the better you'll perform. Xxx
Add to the List : Read some good stuff in the morning. This will Oil up your verbal engine.
I can't do ANYTHING without a test run, or 10 😅
My issue is that working full time (which is 40 hours EXCLUDING lunch in Sweden) is absolutely impossible for me. I have worked those times before but it just makes me incredibly stressed and depressed. But NO ONE wants to hire someone that DOESN'T work full time, even with my experience and education (computer science with about 10 years of exp).
you've said my issue exactly. Like excuse me for actually having issues, but autistic people are disabled in more than just name... I burn out, no way i could go full time. Nobody wants me.
I think the greatest barrier for those on the spectrum who are seeking work is bullying. Knowing that you're slightly different from everyone else places huge challenges on anyone on the spectrum, therefore one feels left out & they know they won't last long in the workforce.
I can be extremely intimidating. I didn’t find out I was autistic until I was 67 years old. I thought I was the only one. Being harassed and bulled for 20 years made me tough.
@@WesLott3rd not a way to live though; nobody should have to cope with bullying for 20 years
@@camellia8625It took me 20 years to get really good at dealing with them. To this day, 'it still happens. Bullies are cowards, they look for the weaker people so that they can put them down to make them self’s feel bigger. It's really kind of pathetic. To fix this, you ignore them if you can. But if you can’t, you need to find a game that they absolutely do not want to play, then make them play it. Like; describe a bully to them. When they ask “are you calling me a coward”. Answer, "apparently, you’re stupid too". I do this for two reasons. 1) If you tell them "lets resolve this peacefully", they smell fear and the next thing the bully will do is break your nose. 2) They don’t scare me. Never fight a well-trained autistic person. This game almost always works, they walk away humiliated. If they don't, I never hit first; I never invite them to hit me, and I do only what I need to do. I feel really bad about it for a long time when I have to hurt someone. I normally hit them twice, then give them a chance to walk away. I hit them so hard, they all walk. This a TH-cam video of me playing with my favorite weapon. th-cam.com/video/TBI8fXWZmKw/w-d-xo.html As you can see, I'm real, and I am indeed autistic. Thanks for your reply.
true this happens to me everytime i work
Totally agree, at age 47 I was signed off for medical retirement on mental health grounds because of decades of being bullied in over a dozen different jobs as well as in education. I work no more than 10 hours a week to top up my small pension and social security benefits, this keeps stress levels down and means that my face doesn't get too familiar with those of malign intent in a job where I have limited interaction with management and co-workers.
There was a group interview I had almost 12 and half years ago and the woman in the group made a huge point about me being nervous. I ended up getting an offer but very quickly their was mutual frustration between myself and the job. I barely lasted three weeks at that job. A large problem is the process in order to get a job in the first place (interview, getting called for an interview, meeting experience requirements...etc...) and then sometimes you can also get surprised when on the job itself and it end up being a complete mismatch.
Agreed. The process is definitely a huge part of the issue. I'm sorry that job didn't work out for you. And I absolutely HATE group interviews.
Just had a group interview last week, which was extremely nerve wracking. I was a bit surprised to hear that the interviewer decided that I was qualified to move to the next stage (given my nerves), however the lack of information as to when the second half will be is stressing greatly. Perhaps finding new hires is not as urgent, but I would feel a lot more prepared and confident if not so much was left up to guesswork.
Call a duck "a duck". Of course, I’m nervous. Why don’t you talk about your positive points, rather than bad mouthing other people. Doing this will made her look small and petty, and make you look like a leader.
I've worked many jobs in the past 35 of my 53 years. My favorite jobs I sort of fell in to out of desperation. First one was being an aid in a special needs contained classroom years ago. I don't care for children, just never really liked being around them, nothing against them, but that actually made me an ideal aid because I didn't get emotional, I stayed practical and the kids respected me because I didn't try to be their buddies. I was always kind though and when I'd get to know them as little humans I did really start loving them all.
But when that job was phased out of the school system in my early thirties and then my car broke down I had to take a job I thought I'd never do, working in construction. I was the only woman in the company and I had no training or any clue what I was doing. Eight years later I was in charge of a crew myself. I loved almost every aspect of construction. We were a relaxed crew so I could work in my shorts and tanks and didn't have to deal with my sensory nightmare of pants and long sleeves. I love the order and structure of building but what made me happiest was fire damage restoration. A lot of it was older homes with a lot of character and we wouldn't go cheap on those jobs so it went from burned/smokey messes to beautifully restored homes. And that also meant I got to do demolition by sledgehammer! Really helps work out your aggression!
I'd still be working there if I could, but I got pregnant and had a son with special needs so I stayed home with him.Now he's an adult and I'm too lazy for all that. NOW I work for myself from home doing data entry and making extra on Mturk and Prolific. Still wearing my shorts and tanks though!
Do you have challenges with acquiring benefits from the remote data entry job? I’ve been researching a lot of remote jobs lately but some want full time hours for part time pay with no benefits.
I loved your comment. I work in construction too and understand You so well. Greetings from Mexico
I would highly recommend not going into medicine if you are autistic. While the science and problem solving is enticing, modern medicine includes constant interruptions with phones and texting and the energy drain continues to worsen as the years go on. I’m exceptional at what I do, but it comes at a significant cost.
Really too bad, because wow, neurodivergent people could really use a doctor who gets them! But I can see how that would be really difficult for someone who hates interruptions and constant stress. Very difficult.
I for sure had an issue balancing the social and technical aspects of my last job. Granted, I did the equipment repair side of healthcare, but after 6 months with inefficient systems, frustrating vendors, and people who were willing to stay miserable rather than change the bad system-- getting fired was a relief. Chronic fatigue, time blindness, social anxiety, sensory issues, and dozens of other issues I didn't know were related to my undiagnosed neurodivergency were adding an overwhelming level of stress to an unnecessarily frustrating job. I loved helping the nurses and patients but it was sucking the life out of me mentally and physically.
Worked as a Medical Assistant for years, tried working in at least 3 different medical offices (2 were Dermatology, 1 was General Practice) - got completely burnt out of that line of work and wouldn't even consider going back (this was also years before I discovered that I was Autistic). WAY too draining for me - emotionally, mentally, even physically at times. Even at the best of times I was constantly stressed because of the demands/expectations that were put on me there... haven't looked back. Just wish I knew then what I know now... I never would've pursued my Associates degree in that field in the 1st place. Not sure what I would've done, but it definitely would've been different. ...You live and learn, I guess (doing much better now in a totally different field).
Then be a B-cell, not a T-cell.
Advice I wish I’d had when I started 👍
>good jobs for autistic people
>doesn't mention any specific jobs
I don't live in Australia. Employers in America can't even fathom paying their employees enough to pay rent, let alone accommodating neurodivergent needs. Wtf am I supposed to do?
If you find out, let me know, even if you have to reply to me in a decade. I'm so tired, man.
Good point
I quit my previous job of over 10 years due to workplace micromanagent, harrestment and bullying.
I was diagnosed with asd and ptsd recently and have absolutely no desire to return to a typical work environment.
I work for myself and do enough to meet my cost of living needs.
May i ask hat you work im as of now?
@@zilaz I do an assortment of information technology stuff. From data recovery, p.c repairs to network installations and server builds.
I also picked up some administrative work for a couple of small local businesses I've done i.t work for previously. Handy when I have a slow month and can do it from home.
All and all its pretty good with no real pressure or deadlines. It's done wonders for my mental health.
@@Ravenx217 all the best going forward mate. With a bit of luck you'll find something that strikes a balance and be in a far better place.
I’m sorry your employers put you through this. 😢 your experience echos mine so much! I’m pleased you found a way out.
@@imogenm5016 thank you for the kind words and empathy. I really do feel for anyone who has had to endure a similar experience.
It's not easy but I hope you find your own light at the end and achieve a sense of balance for your own mental well being and sanity.
All the best in your quest.
Excellent video. I am on the spectrum and have a chronic illness. I quit my job this past December due to severe bullying, my illness and not fitting in. I'm now building my own company
I am an ASD'er with OCD and ADHD. I found my passion to be very conflicting with my lack of ability to socialise and and my high fluctuations in sensory needs. However, I have learned to manage a lot of it by simply being honest with my employer and my co-workers. I have a social service worker background and switched to elementary school support. I love my job and feel burnt right out at the end of the day, but I enjoy getting up everyday to get to work.
I take the city bus to work. Put my ear buds in and block out the world. It gives me a calm before the storm, my peers understand when I don't engage during breaks and if I am pacing, rocking, flapping, flicking or fidgeting I'm just self-regulating before going back into the classroom. I am able to understand and connect with the kids and support them in ways they need better than those who are NT.
Are you a teacher aide?
Yes. I am an education assistant.
I've held so many jobs over the years...oh gosh, the list literally takes two pages. Finally I went to school to learn massage therapy. I didn't know I was autistic, but set up my life working from a home office, one client at a time. Bonus...they just close their eyes and don't expect me to talk!
Now, at age 65, just yesterday I self-diagnosed with autism, and I understand why this job worked so well for me, and why the other jobs were such a struggle!
I realize touching people wouldn't work for everyone, but apparently I have talent for finding and releasing those tight muscles. It's like a kinesiology puzzle and pattern for me to solve as I figure out what is making them uncomfortable or sore. Now I get why I enjoy that!
I've been doing this work now for about 18 years, made a few friends, and helped people physically function and feel better. Total win for everyone.
I've done a couple of the assessment puzzles and its kinda nice to see what my skills are.
At the same time, its difficult for my adhd because of low self esteem.
When I fail one of the questions I feel unemployable.
I've been coping with ADHD all my life, but after my last job was incredibly stressful and high pressure, I wonder whether I will be able to bounce back.
I know work isn't really enjoyable for most people and thats just a reality. But I would love to wake up and not be dreading my work day every single day, feeling like I'm underperforming and then come home so burnt out that i can't even keep on top of basic self care
Hello alrighttubbleweed! By the name, I love your name :0)
That sounds awful how exist on a daily basis. Some people are clearly more affected than others. You sound trapped in a job that is not doing you any good, in fact, making your life difficult.
It took some courage for me to try something different to working in hotels. Originally I aiming for lifetime career, or starting a business, but being an introvert, hospitality is not a good choice of career for me. Buying a restaurant would have been like buying my own place in hell!
Have you looked at your transferable skills? You can possibly use those skills in a different environment, one where you at least have the energy to have more fulfilling and relaxing home time.
I was a pharmacy tech for a while and it theoretically should have been perfect for me and I genuinely enjoyed all the tasks. However it was an awful work environment because we were so understaffed and instead of having the pharmacy close earlier, they had all of us working 50+ hour weeks, and my coworkers were very judgemental and gossipy about each other, so it felt like I was always one "masking failure" away from having them be mad at me. It didn't help that another tech, who was also autistic, was judged and treated poorly for her social mistakes and needing specific directions. (And this autistic coworker was.... Unfortunately homophobic, so the two of us never really "teamed up" due to my queerness.)
Autistic people can do absolutely any job, but the other people there and the management are what make or break it 😅 I'm glad this company also trains employers!
Neurotypicals are illogical and small minded. They are easy to outsmart. Use that fantastic brain of yours for something other than a hat rack. Plan the conversation. If they are mean to you, give them a hard time back every time. Make fun of them. Make them look bad and they will be more careful of how they talk to you. Getting mad is the worst thing we can do to ourselves. Have some fun, make it where everyone laughs at the bully. If you keep a level head, this is not difficult for us. You may get me the first time, but I will be ready to put you in your place the next time. Example: This coworker said, if you dont like it, why dont you quit. I ask her if she runs from her problems. She said no. I ask, why would you give me advice that you yourself would not follow.
I also used to be a pharmacy tech and had the same issues you describe. My workplaces were quite toxic to begin with, but got so much worse from being targeted and bullied by people who also had severe cluster b personality disorders. Never had so many people spend so much time undermining their own team just to have control that nothing would ever change near them. My ASD and BPD were a pretty compelling beacon.
I'd be super happy if a program like this would exist in my country.
I know you might not see this but I really hope you do 🙏🏽
This goes together with career, and burnout…but can you make a video on autism and fear of success because of the worry at how routines might become too much or too different to adjust to? Of course I have no idea if you even relate to that, seeing as you have created something so big and impactful. But you’ve made so many videos that relate to my exact life experience and I was hoping that if this was something you’ve ever faced, do you can help give some insight or advice to it. Im realizing more now than ever that I’m actually scared of the change to my life and my possible needs that succeeding in career might bring.
One problem I've had is seeing many things/everything that creates waste or inefficiency, then repeatedly telling the people in charge that it's happening and we could make things better with these seemingly small changes, then eventually that step or program was the big idea of someone higher up and they feel threatened.
Another problem is having a boss that expects something different than you or your skills, and thinks you'll "grow into it," not understanding that it's actually a weakness or inability. This also happens with relationships.
The inefficiency one drives me crazy about the corporate world. Before I realized I was AuDHD, I just couldn’t understand why it didn’t bother other people so much. So much of our societal structure and work requirements are absurd. There are so many social norms and status signaling aspects to it that are so unappealing to me. What are we even working towards if not to be more efficient and more affluent? Yet, efficiencies never translate to less hours worked or higher pay. The “new feudalism” theory definitely aligns with a lot of what I’ve experienced in the corporate world. It starts to make more “sense” once you understand that the purpose of your job is to make your manager look and feel good. Perceived competence and perceived value trumps actual competence and value in most environments, unfortunately.
I just got a job after 2 years of searching. I'm legally blind and can't drive due to a nerve defect that particularly affects the optic nerve. Somehow in 2 years I haven't even gotten to the interview until the company my mom works at had a customer service position. I have a master's degree and I couldn't even get to an interview.
Honestly, given how I interviewed, I'm surprised they didn't turn me down but they've accepted me. I don't start until monday but here's hoping it works out. First job in six years and second job ever.
Congratulations on the job! Don't worry about the interviews- I've been terrible in interviews (REALLY terrible), gotten the job and been good at it. Good luck and have fun!
Best of luck to you 🤞
I like the point Aron made about how an employer can't accommodate us unless they know we're neurodivergent. I keep hearing, "Don't disclose to an employer unless you want to lose your job." But the fact is, I've lost jobs anyway because of communication problems that always rear their head, even though autism wasn't part of the discussion (because I didn't know I'm autistic). I think it makes a lot of sense to disclose. But I am new to knowing I'm autistic (less than two years) and haven't worked since knowing (I have a very young daughter who I'm home with), so I haven't been burned by disclosing yet, not in that way.
my mom always says that, with meeting women as well, "don't disclose unless you want to lose the opportunity right away", what kind of message does this send... So it's not OK to be me to begin with? And why would I want that job/woman then? Shouldn't you champion me, and support me in championing myself, as who I am, that this has value to others? I get it's about a realistic perspective and wanting you to succeed but it's still upside down logic that isn't logical. As you said, you'd lose it eventually, that's what this mindset is already betraying by saying "you can't keep something as long as you are you", well then that's the problem, not me. We need to change that then. How can we do that by partaking in this non sense. We need to promote self acceptance and for others to also accept us, then and only then can we have true lasting success in life's endeavours. I've accepted myself and approach life with the mindset of who I am, if something doesn't work out that's just a confirmation of what not to engage with anyway, and encourage you to seek out the right things, which will work out. At least you get to be you and you come from a honest standpoint of this is how it is, what other way can you live truly.
@@Dezzyyx 🤗
I'm 73, and I'm a retired medical IT specialist, most of which was clinical transcription. I loved my job. Medical texts were very interesting to me and I loved learning the terminology.
Would greatly appreciate if you would expand on this area; clinical transcription. Best path for someone starting out at age 32.
I have a different take on this in that I am older and retired. I am extremely grateful that I did not live in the age of labeling. It would have created limitations on my life, and I would not have had the boldness or probably the opportunity to do what I did for a living. My job was extremely stressful, I suffered burnout 3 times, I was thrilled when I was able to retire, but I survived. It was terribly hard. But that is what life is about. I accomplished amazing, unimaginable things far over and above my abilities. I coped the best I could. I didn't even know I was autistic until 12 years after I retired. I taught school for 34 years, 3 years high school and 31 years middle school. That is one tough job.
I’m glad i haven’t been forced into a more difficult life than what I already lead. What better sign of progress is there than future generations not having to go through the same hardships as you did?
Anyone else ASC in their 30s struggling to cope with the emotional toll of re-entering work after a while away (reclusive or otherwise), to cover up big CV/resume gaps and compensate for lack of skills, and with picking how/where to retrain? Also, is anyone having trouble motivating themselves to work in general, when you know it's inevitably going to set off ASC burnout, as well as incur constant high stress or attract bullying? I've worked on-off at awful jobs I was forced into from age 15-29, and after a couple of years out for illness I can't face it anymore...
Im now 53 and dont give a f. about how my resume looks to someone who i have no idea what theyre looking for. this is what ive done. this is what i can do. this is what i will do. and yeah. i am poor, but not broke or broken.
I only put details relevant to the job and in the past 5 years and so they can't guess how old I actually am and if there are any gaps
The CV should not be a chronological life story. It is a sales document telling prospective employers what you can do. The idea of the CV (resume), and cover letter if required, is to get you to an interview. Target the employer's needs, study the company values on their website, make sure their values match your values, and be certain that you can support what is on your CV and cover letter with evidence, anecdotes and examples for your own lived experience. Generally speaking, if you support and believe in the company's product or services, it is easier to talk about the potential job, yourself and how you would fit in in the work place.
Disclosing autism or any kind of health issue would only be required if you think it will affect you in the workplace. You can say you like to be alone in your free time, and you can ask about situations that you know make you uncomfortable without disclosing your autism or Asperger's. 95% of NTs would not know what Autism and will invariably misunderstand it. Best to send out your scouts before sending in the whole battalion!
@@skog44 That's just the problem--marketing yourself is the whole point, and believe me, even if you just say/imply/show that you're generally a quiet or slightly sensitive type (without saying a word about ASC/ASD) almost no-one will want to hire you. Unless the field is highly-specialised and the workplace demands silence or low interaction (lmk what kind of jobs demand this).
And that's not even getting into the CV gaps, if like me you've taken jobs with sketchy employers unwittingly (ASC people can be naive), been made redundant (ASC people aren't often social enough with colleagues or good self-advocates), or had to step away due to illness and burnout. My original comment is asking how to cover up or make plausible excuses for these things that employers will actually accept or buy, because most people are sadly still intolerant and judgemental when it comes to our needs.
@@pendafen7405 I have disclosed my stutter in job interviews (even though I can hide it quite well). Most people understand what a stutter is, so it is not so intimidating for employers. Until I started working with Autistic people I had no real concept of what it is and how people are affected. Paul's you-tube videos have helped me understand it a lot better, and even though I have been able to get jobs and work in teams, even lead at times, the situations that affect me the worst, are when I have absolutely no control. That is when I sometimes lose self control (executive function), leading to the occasional meltdown that affects everyone around me. It really resonates for a long time. That is what I am really afraid of..not having self control.
Learning to managing that has taken me a long time, but it has been trial and error. I think one of the key issues is being able to predict the environments that cause lack of executive function. Learning how to navigate discussing this at a job interview is a skill that can be learned.
I have been struggling to find a job, particularly in my field of study. I've gotten to the point where I no longer want to even look at jobs, and don't want to do any of the ones I find. I imagine there may be many jobs out there that would be a great fit, but I have no way of finding them without wading through the massive number that are out there (not to mention somehow making it through the screening process, which seems to be impossible, even after working with professional employment coaches). And self-employment is a no-go, as I would have to do even MORE self-promoting to try and drum up clients, not to mention handle the business side of things... The future feels very bleak.
i have been chronically underemployed for several years, working retail and other jobs that are exhausting despite having a master's degree. and while i think my awkwardness and different communication style in interviews definitely doesn't help, i've barely gotten to that stage in more than a handful of positions when i've applied to well over a hundred jobs in the past year or two alone. so i really think it's likely more due to the gaps in my CV. but i just don't have the energy or the resources to fill those gaps, and nobody has offered me any chances.
I retired from the Military, as an engineer. Every few years I was transferred to a new job and as I was advanced, there was less personal social interaction. Also, being female and the rules against fraternization, kept me isolated, although I worked along side hundreds of people on ships.
Being Autistic still eventually caught up with me, my being "off", which put people off and suspectful. I was always soon transferred to a different job and location. I did well overseas, in Japan, where I was considered a "Normal" Gaijin.
I've become a recluse, since I retired from another job. I didn't fit in there at all, I was well-hated, but they kept me on because of my skills.
What do you like to do in your spare time?
@@jennifercollinsbrever4898 Nice of you to ask...I clean. I clean after my animals, my garden, my house...I even dream about cleaning. I hate cleaning, but I hate messes more.
What do you do, Jennifer?
I organize. I paint walls. I rearrange furniture. I declutter.
@@jennifercollinsbrever4898 Do you ride on the Anxiety and Depression cycle?
I get skinny and anxious when it's warm out and then fat and depressed when it's cold.
One or the other, my brain is only equipped with First and Fourth gears. I move and think either too slow or too fast.
Noise and smells and liars are my triggers.
@@judylandry302 I don’t know entirely? I have felt anxiety, especially when I don’t get outside enough. And I have experienced depression, normally when I’m not doing an outlet or creative enough.
Your experience is interesting to me. I’m always curious about body systems and different people’s experiences.
Funny to compare this to my southamerican reality, where neurodivergence isn't even a thing yet. We don't legally exist and we're still expected to conform to a neurotypical work environment .😥
Dw, in my life at least, i legally exist where i live, but im still expected to conform them. Being understood is a luxury to me.
I know every situation is different, but I want to share my personal experience. I’m an autistic expat and I’ve worked in Ecuador, México, and Belize. In my experience with small villages, communities integrated autistic folks more readily than what I experienced in the United States. Since there’s no government assistance for disabled people, families seem more helpful than what I experienced in the US. Often, American families expect the government to do everything for disabled relatives, so they don’t do anything to help out. In the villages where I lived, all of the community members participate in work activities to the best of their abilities. However, in the US those disabled folks are separated from the community and they just watch from the sidelines or they stay home, because nobody thinks to include them.
Wow, yes… we need MAXIMUM PRODUCTIVITY in the west! Why employ someone whose even a bit less productive?
So we just throw that person in the trash haha
Same here! I live in Switzerland and my work manager answered to my question "do we have neurodivergent managers or leaders at our company that I could get as a mentor?" first "What is that?" then I gave him some examples (ADHS, Autism spectrum, Dislexia, ...) and he then he answered "I am not aware of people's diagnosed mental states". I was taken aback and shocked by his ignorance and blunt stigmatising answer. Therefore I am currently looking for a new manager... and now also for a new job after seeing this video and checking out Xceptional 🙂
I don't know how the neurodivergent do in these uninformed environments. Mad respect because I can imagine it being even more alienating for some!
I will have a job interview next week as a high-functioning autistic man, wish me luck!
I don't know how to describe it in short, but my work efficiency dropped 90% when my responsibilities shifted during my career.
Story time:
I had formal education as a software developer, which was already not to my standard but in germany IT is often describe as a "new" technology. I started full time employment at a company in their software department. It was pretty nice in the beginning, since I could focus all my attention to the code, because the program was for the IT department itself. But slowly over time it turned from writing code to manage (internal) customers. This is a very dangerous step for any company to take imo, since it is already hard to quantify the usefulness of an IT department, giving a single non-technical employee full control over a technical employee hides costs even more. You can get stuck in an eternal development loop and high waiting times for both sides are very common. You need professional oversight to manage communication and expectations. Both sworn enemies of mine. Exhibit A: High prio ticket, that only contains an email from someone somewhere in the company that reads "that thingy thing button not working". That might be the language neurotypicals use and might be incredibely descriptive, but in my eyes is just garbage. But since I'm responsible for that software and everybody else is "busy with themselves" (sounds awefully familiar) it is my job to schedule meetings, write emails, be polite, accomodate people, lead meetings, write agendas... I'm basically a whole sub-company, while paying paid less, than a carpenter. Nothing against carpenters. High skilled job and very useful. But a carpenter doesn't replace whole departments. Software devs can and do.
Oh, and all that talk about labour shortage. Nonesense. There are only one fact, companies don't want to hire for appropriate wages which in turn scares away potential students. A high-skill, high-stress job shouldn't pay so low, that you HAVE to share an flat with other people just to pay rent. That doesn't instill confidence or pride in a profession. A carpenter can at least save money by making their own furniture or even the entire house. All I can do is push data around and make funny colors blink on a piece of glass.
So . . ? Why don't you take a different path or quit alltogether. Whims will get nothing changed.
@@kutay8421
"Taking a different path" would require you to have any inkling as to what sort of skills you actually have.
If you've spent all you have on one career because it's the one thing that it looks like you can do somewhat acceptably, suddenly having it ripped apart or otherwise taken from you can leave you without any clue on what to do next.
Hence, if you have a career, but it has changed and is becoming painful, it's very hard to find the strength and courage to just quit and "take a different path", because what the Hell would that be and how do you know, that other path wouldn't end up even worse? You don't, and gambling with your own Fate is stressful and terrifying, especially when there are only vague, imprecise descriptions of what goes into a given career choice.
Alternatively, you could find more info by socializing with people within a given career, but as the whole "socializing" is one of the major problems for Neurodivergent people, that is not a particularly good option either.
I tried everything but nothing worked to secure decent employment. Like bachelor's degree, electronics training going through Department of Rehab programs. Only work I did figure out was mobile mechanic work out of a truck. This was not real good because of back and knee problems. Three back surgeries and two knee surgeries with additional injuries that put me out of commission for multiple months at a time. 68 now living in a van on $400 SS, $400 supplemental and 102 food stamps. Like college and all the quote placement help simply did not work. Have no answers.
Do you live in the US or Australia? Have you ever looked into Goodwill's employment programs?
I'd adopt you.
😢
@@leahstaub1874 not disabled enough for goodwill. Like I got through one of the toughest universities in California. I did have some extreme academic weaknesses which actually became more of a problem towards the end of the program particularly since I was in constant pain from a back injury. Most of my professors thought that my academic difficulties were a result of character flaws. I was quite beaten down and in clinical depression by the time I graduated. Wasn't like I was enjoying much social success at the school. I did accomplish some things including help design a new computer registration system that made it fairer and easier to get the classes students needed to get through the school.
Have you applied for disability
This was such a great vid! And awesome to hear about Xceptional, what a wonderful organisation!
Currently self-employed as a gardener (great in terms of minimal/choosing my level of social interaction to a degree, physical work, and lots of outside time) but not really quite earning enough (very weather dependent in some cases). I keep thinking about taking on "formal" employment to earn more money/have more stable income to actually get a chance a living on my own but... I was basically forced out of my last job via bullying (had no idea I was autistic then - only self-dx) and I'm honestly crippled by the idea of it happening again - getting stuck somewhere horrific or "doing a bad job" bc how freaking confusing NTs are at "communicating" (as they seem to call it) or getting turned back into a lifeless zombie again; at the same time: I cannot stand where I live now. So... kind of dithering on the line of what to do, really... or even how to make to make the right decision! @_@
I love that he said, "They can do just about any job." I feel that's definitely true, especially with accommodations and support.
I have a PhD and 5 publications and can't find a job because I can't work full time. The public LIBRARY said I was not qualified to reshelve books.... I DEFENDED A PHD IN GEOLOGY. My struggle is a lack of flexibility on the employers side, I can't even get in the door because I don't fit the cookie cutter. I'm shocked at how LITTLE movement there has been on the side of employers, it seems they would rather go broke!
My largest obstacles I foresee for myself in the future are bad/indirect/not in writing communication, overwhelming work environment, navigating the people there, and flexible work place/hours.
Thank you! I was asked to send a CV to a neurodivergent based business recently, after I'd approached them to see if they had anything available.
I haven't had any response at all though and it's been a week. My CV wasn't in the traditional format with a layout of dates attached to each organisation. I focused on my skills and experience.
I've followed up this morning and hope to hear back.
I'll definitely be checking out Xceptional ❤
Should one always follow up after an interview? Is it the “norm”?
@@Angel-se4zm it wasn't an interview. They asked for my CV. I sent it and didn't get any reply.
They replied yesterday after I messaged to check that they're flat out with school holiday activities. So it's all good. I'll just wait another week or so until they're able to respond.
My brain was having a hard time of relaxing about it.
Sorry for being a bit random and long here 😁that's my specialty 😅...anyhow on a serious note....I have been doing a lot of research on ASD/ ADHD etc combos in many of us....now one thing that JUMPED OUT AT ME ,besides annoyance at the insistence of a badly stereotyped profile of ADHD as being mainly of males who are semi criminal borderline addicts who are right off the wall, over represented in prison ,in addictions, anti social behaviour, defiance, oppositional , all things etc...worst of worse of zero impulse control etc etc etc 🙄typical public perception ( as that is how it's described online) .This stereotype is really really damaging, and may be a huge reflection of reality for employers and employment seekers. Employers who thought they were getting a slightly hyperfocused bouncy distractable earnest genius,but got something totally totally different. As a woman with ADHD /ASD I find this very frustrating this common borderline impulsive addict criminal stereotype conflation so dangerous and rife, it erases a huge chunk of us who are pedantic rule followers,very well behaved, extremely pro social ,higher than average empathy and higher than average tendencies towards civic duty ,fighting injustice etc. Those are things unique to many of our cores and are really over represented amoung us ...we tend to be de facto altruists because we really can't do dissonance so much. Not well.Its very tough.
However I see that there is a huge AMOUNT of lack of care, resources,advocacy for people who aren't genetically ADHD, aren't ASD, have no strong family links to it.
The poor victims who are deeply and permanently disabled by FAS. Foetal Alcohol Disorder. It probably takes the lion's share of misdiagnosis as ADHD ,however it plays on similar presentations on the severe end of behavioural challenges,cognitive and authority challenges. It's epidemic amoung so many populations exposed to pre natal 🍷drinking ( no safe limits exist) and is also a spectrum....
It seems rife in the UK in disparate populations..as some pre natal drinking is the norm, as a result you have greater anti social and severe behaviour problems in that population. For example in huge cultural drinking populations pre natal alcohol avoidance isn't taught as something very serious and to avoid all costs...women are shockingly told best to TRY to avoid alcohol...but lots of pregnancies are ones where mild to severe sustained substance use exists.
In countries like Canada, Australia NZ where indigenous were grotesquely treated under colonialism and residential schools from hell caused huge epidemics of alcohol and substance misuse on vulnerable reserves , traumatised populations ...from that poverty,substance, vulnerability, a huge over representation of prisoners who are indigenous and likely suffering from the effects of FAS undiagnosed as they don't have exterior appearances that indicate severe FAS. This would be similar for at risk impoverished heavy 🍷 drinking populations in Britain, or anywhere where it's rife. ADHD mimicking behaviours ,PTSD, anxiety, deprivation and ASPD will be rife in these communities leading to tragedy and incarnation.
Now to me, blending a lot of undiagnosed FAS victims into Neurodiversity is really really damaging, both ways.FAS is grossly ignored, underserved, untreated,under recognised and this is really serious as it's probably far far more common than us who inherit genes or had genes activated early on.
There may be 100% symptom , behaviour overlaps, but vast differences too .(unless there is already neurodiverse genetic pre disposition in family of non 🍷drinking mother's, then you can have the full gamut. )
So my fear is that without raising the profile of FAS victims separately , the most severe profiles of FAS victims struggle badly undiagnosed or were likely misdiagnosed as neurodiverse.
FAS victims are brutally underserved,need huge advocacy. PR etc.
But careless diagnosis and lazy misdiagnosis would be putting the fear into employers who may have employed someone who has intense FAS but was improperly diagnosed ADHD,ASD and really wasn't fit to work without really specialised FAS support. This is where things have a huge potential to backfire around employers getting nervous.
In summary I really hope someone can run with FAS victims and start equal advocacy and support services...as it's really a serious tragic injury during foetal development, like a head trauma is, that creates their awful symptoms and poor life chances. They need a huge uplift and some really bespoke care, justice!
I had no idea I was ASD+iADHD until last year.
I had a special interest growing up (history) which I wanted to pursue in college, but was denied being able to do so because I couldn't explain how I could use the degree to directly find gainful full-time employment. I didn't have enough experience with the field to know what kind of careers were available. I was already apathetic about school so this didn't help. I dutifully went to college in pursuit a field that kind of interested me, but which I was not passionate about and which required lots of prerequisites I struggled with (probably in no small part due to what I only learned much later is probably dyscalculia).
I worked at a library because I liked books. I was okay at it, but I didn't like the customer service aspect.
I worked for a small business where I was the only full-time employee and I could often listen to music while working. My attention to detail was useful for parts of the job, but some of the work was tediously repetitive. I can't compartmentalize so I found myself often mentally taking projects home with me, despite the fact that I couldn't actually do any of the work at home even if I wanted to.
I finally went back to college in pursuit of my special interest, not quite sure what I would do with the degree. I excelled at the classes, graduated with honors, and stumbled into a job that is a great fit for me (museum archives). It fits both my talents and my interests, I don't mind taking work home with me because I love most of what I do, and I am well-respected by professional peers.
I feel that "follow your passion" is particularly important for ASD.
(The fact that my three main jobs lasted about 7 years, 6 years, and 10+ years are one of the reasons people insisted I couldn't possible have any mental conditions.)
I had a similar experience to yours. I even worked in a library for awhile. My passion is really archeology, not the stuff I was encourage to go to school for so that I could get a job. I didn't actually graduate because of various problems I now see were related to my then unknown AuDHD. I wish I had the money to go back to school now, but am not able to find employment.
The longest I worked anywhere was 4 years, and that was because it was a family run hotel and I was treated like family. When I broke away from there my longest full time role was again 4 years, working with troubled youth on a night shift while I studied in the day. Nearly retired now so I can't even count the number of jobs I have had, let alone the different industries and sectors I worked in.
My attitude developed into thinking that the world of work is like a forest of fruit, so I have been foraging my way through life, while becoming skilled at writing cvs and doing interviews.
That's good. I think any kind of degree teaches academic writing, how to organise your free time and how to present. It doesn't really matter what you study, but ideally it will be something that interests you.
I paid for each paper before I started it, and only had a small loan towards the end.
Anthropology introduced me to Joseph Campbell. His catch phrase was "Follow your Bliss". I agree, it is important for anyone to do that, but especially for autistic people.
I never understood why i could not keep a job. The jobs i was able to keep were security jobs where my schedule was 11-7am, overnight shift. I have 2 degrees and left multiple high paying managerial jobs. sitting in cubicles, busy offices, sitting in meetings all day, report deadlines, supervising staff and coordinating with other departments was nightmarish for me. I walked off of a 110K job because my boss humiliated me in front of my subordinates. I am a professional organist on the side and never had a problem making money. I know now that I am neuro-divergent, possibly functioning autistic. I work multiple security jobs where i have little to NO human interaction. I wish I could work the jobs that i want, and have the career that I dreamed of having, but i am who i am.
Thank you Paul, I have been watching you for some time now. I used to work as an employment consultant for people with disabilities. It was government funded work but with KPIs. It used to be not for profit, but shortly after I joined the organisation, it changed to profit oriented (supposedly to improve efficiency and refine competition between similar organisations). The unrealistic goals (kpis) and narcissism among management who kept looking at themselves instead of listening to the needs of consultants and of course their clients, is what finally drove me to edge. 8nhad a minor meltdown myself and have resorted to driving a truck, where I have more control over my daily situations. Road rules are a good structure.
I had some successes in finding work for autistic people. It involved taking time to get to know the individuals and discovering their strengths and weaknesses, like you would for any other person.
I took a holistic approach by looking at the clients situation on the home front, what factors affect him or her, whether the person has a licence (which is always a huge factor), what the person's triggers are, the environments where the person feels most comfortable or uncomfortable and of course why the person is passionate about. I also asked what difficulties the person would like to overcome and we discussed how to do that and how far we could push that boundary.
We naturally had to be transparent with prospective employers and I would also check the company website and company policies to determine whether the company values match or are similar to the clients own values. If they don't match, there is a good chance the employment will not be sustainable.
With regards to tests and puzzles, I did not use that methodology. Instead I would tailor the CV to amalgamate the job description and the applicants abilities and interests. The cover letter is based on the job description and the CV so when at interview the applicant can framework to support questions and answers at interview.
With regards to gaps in the CV, I would not create chronological CVs and would focus on skills, experiences and time spent in different roles, no dates, no date of births and no photographs of the client. I would never put clients exact address, just the area where the person lives. The employer does not need to know any of that information.
So, in my view, the CV is a way to filter employers. If the employer wants to know about dates and gaps in the CV, then it is probably not the right employer. I taught my clients to be active and critical job hunters when looking for work, not to be passive recipients of the employers scrutiny. The CV, cover letter and interview prep is the foundation for whether or not the person gets the right job and the employer gets the right employee. Employers will want their interests spiked and the will also want to be challenged (politely) when at interview. So my approach was to help the client identify his or her strengths and abilities, recognize their weaker points, get them to challenge themselves on those weaker points and teach them to challenge the employer by asking the right questions when at interview.
That all takes a lot of time, but I think for long term success and stability for both client and employer, it is the best way. Government KPIs are not a good motivator, employment consultant and their manager's are not what is important, the client's goals and helping them reach those goals are what really counts.
Yes, the approach you describe definitely works! I used to have a similar role helping long term unemployed folks access the labour market. Found that the '3rd sector ' (non profit organizations) was the most welcoming for my clients as mainstream capitalist employers seemed so inflexible, unwilling even to offer a work trial to a person who seems a little eccentric.
I was pushed for years to customer service although I have panic attacks and depressive episodes I was always told I’m too dramatic and too sensitive. I often have heart palpitations and stomach pains when having to interact with a customer. Others seem to not take things this way. Now I’m not sure what to do. I have a degree from logistics and experience as a warehouse manager which was a really great job for me! I loved it and I didn’t even feel much tired after a working day and the boss was satisfied. I know I need something like this without telling anyone in the family or at work I could be on the spectrum.
Talking about accommodations, my biggest complaint with my jobs is not having a quiet place to go while on break.
A 15 minute Power Nap (head on the table) can work wonders. But in most cases every room has a loud tv on, or music piped through speakers, etc.
I'll never get why a radio or TV needs to be on in every damn place you go in society lol, what's the deal here... people want that? I've figured it's something about people having a need for stimulation and needing it amped up more so than lowered down, as if they are lacking in it, while for us it might be too high already so we'd prefer to have it lowered, so no radio/TV which only adds to a stimulation already too high
Oh em gee. That’s me . I love my job nursing in operating room because it’s challenging but I don’t like the chit chat with people especially at lunch break and I wished I could just have a quick nap even 15 mins i could sustain a 12 hour shifts. I get burnt out daily from my job I am now looking for a more flying solo type of nursing job.
Great interview. I'm particularly glad he made clear that we can do anything - including management. I'm retired now but had many years as a senior manager. I found autism actually helped me. So bravo, and thanks for your always excellent content!
I found my dream job as a UX Researcher. I get to learn things and then infodump about all the things I learned. As an autistic person I’m hyper detail oriented. I am very creative and love solving problems and helping others. I get to work from home too. While I do work in tech, my job is still very much a people job. I love learning about psychology and how people make decisions!
I had a slew of jobs and I hated most of them and bombed them miserably even though I am the stereotypical “so intelligent and so much potential, straight As but can’t do basic jobs.”
Great work guys! Australia is way ahead of the curve on so many things. Wish I'd stayed!
It helps if employers are actually honest about what they are willing to do. However much I explain, however minimal the adjustments, and however many promises are made, they invariably change their minds the moment they realise that a little actual effort is required. I've applied to a lot of places too that are a part of guaranteed interview schemes and I've never been offered one.
I've been out of work for 4 months. I recently discovered that I was autistic about 6 months ago. I've had a lot of interviews but no offers yet. It is extremely frustrating.
I am so glad that people are starting to shed their misunderstandings about autism and adhd, while also being supremely frustrated with the fact it took so long to get here, and how much further there is to go.
Great interview and advocacy, Paul & Aron. 👏🏼 Seriously would love to see you have a platform to parliament! This country needs major reforms to recruitment processes to better accommodate neurodivergent people.
The hardest part is to get an autism medical diagnosis certified tested by a professional doctor resulting in a lack of medical autism resources here in the USA.
I'm glad you're referring to non-neurotypicals as neurodivergent. I haaaate when people use "neurodiverse" for that - that's a good word, but it means a mix of different neurotypes, not non-neurotypical people! A single person cannot be neurodiverse! Everyone has only one neurotype (even if they have multiple abnormalities, a hybrid type is still only one type)!
A lot of people seem afraid to use "divergent", as if diverging from the norm is something shameful that needs to be denied or hidden behind a deceptive word.
I'm fairly sure I landed on my perfect job. I'm a software consultant specialising in GIS and Civil Engineering. I've been trying to get my company to set up a Neurodivergance Council so we can help my fellow ND's and also look for more NDs to work for us. No joy yet, but I'll keep pushing
I’m an online English teacher and it works great for me!
The division of vocational rehabilitation helped me get my bachelors degree and TEFL certificate. Now I can organize my own schedule. It took time to get my own private students, but now I’m really grateful. I don’t get any government assistance anymore. I’m independent.
I’ve also worked abroad at times, and while it was very difficult in some ways… in other ways it was nice to be in a community where everyone was so different from me. Locals overlook my weirdness because they already expect foreigners to be weird.
Do you get medical benefits included? Is it full time?
Well, well, well
This video dropped when I'm thinking about quitting my job
I work in IT from home. I make enough to support myself, and I have a lot of autonomy.
I’m highly creative.
Musician. Writing. Videos. Story telling. Podcasts.
Maybe I could work in those fields.
Thank you so much for your interview!
I live in Switzerland and my work manager answered to my question "do we have neurodivergent managers or leaders at our company that I could get as a mentor?" first "What is neurodivergent?" and then, after I gave him some examples (ADHS, Autism spectrum, Dislexia, ...), he said "I am not aware of people's diagnosed mental states at our company". I was taken aback and shocked by his ignorance and stigmatising answer. Therefore I am currently looking for a new manager... and now also for a new job after seeing this video and checking out Xceptional 🙂
Jobs, yes… The bottom line is your there to make bosses money in a timely and efficient manner and to fit in socially.
I find they rarely care about the struggles I have.
There is a massive lack of support, especially from Centrelink when trying to navigate the difficulties of employment.
Some of the jobs I have personally enjoyed are tutor, pizza, delivery driver, DoorDash driver, and shelf stocking. With the delivery jobs it does take a toll on your car though so weight that in your decision if you go this route. Try to have some money set aside for repairs.
What is this the only way? Why so stubborn. No trust in trusting. Someone will always do their best. Keep the honesty coming, I appreciate it.
Thank you for talking about unemployment and especially underemployment.
His work is very valuable. I often thought why not employ ourselves more, I was not successful in building a profitable gig for myself. The work for me is actually often doable apart from learning, focus and speed issues, but all the rest leaves me in either burnout or panic, particularly the social misunderstanding. Thanks for the information, this is hope.
As long as employers rely on AI and examinations that restrict time - with questions that are designed to trick you as a way to detect your analytical skills - many creative and intelligent candidates will be screened out.
I applaud what this man is trying to accomplish, but we are a long way from what he is talking about here, at least in technology and finance. My take away from this video is that not much is new and government is the largest, perhaps only, employer of neurodiverse people.
I used to be a hiring manager and I loved being able to defend neurodivergent candidates.
When the other people on the panel would say things like “she didn’t give much eye contact” I’d say “I don’t think that matters too much for this role. She seems to have a lot of skills that we need for this” etc. etc.
The neurodivergent candidates weren’t always the ones I hired. But I made sure to speak up when potentially autistic traits were seen as a “con”.
I recently worked out that indeed I am more than likely to be in the autism spectrum; although I have had symptoms of autism my whole life; I currently drive a maxi cab in regional NSW and also work at a local servo for more than 30 hours per week……my boss at the servo knows I have some issues and is accepting of it; wonderful to see more neurodiverse people attaining and maintaining employment; on the flip side it’s awesome to know employers are accommodating towards people that may have differences….love my current role but would switch into banking and finance if given the opportunity given my strong ability to learn and retain information, ability to relate and communicate with people from all backgrounds, and willingness to complete formal qualifications and train within different areas of a business to expand my skill set. Mitch, Casino NSW
Some thoughts:
1. Most of the time, even I don't know what accommodations I need. I just know it helps to have a helper who can work with me in accordance with my pace and thoroughness, and that I do not do well with confrontational people or conflicting/vague information. Please be specific, and forgive me if I do not have nerves of steel or if I take awhile to get my thoughts together.
2. Working from home is not that viable for me because I live with roommates and sometimes/often have visitors, and roommates and visitors are noisy and tend to interrupt. I need something that gets me AWAY from the apartment. At least at a workplace I have to commute to, the noise and interruptions tend to be related to the work at hand.
I’m still undiagnosed autistic, but on all the tests I’ve taken, I score very far into the likely autistic end of the scores, and hearing other autistic people talk about their experiences, it’s the only time in my life where I feel like I’m understood and that they must be talking about my life and not theirs, so I’m 99.9% sure.
Most of my life I’ve worked at minimum wage jobs, mostly in the service industry. A few jobs I’ve worked for under minimum wage, either because I was too young or because it was interesting and I was being exploited without really realizing it or doing anything about it. I’ve spent years doing things like delivering pizza, delivering tires, or being a chauffeur. I was excellent at all of them, but some employers didn’t always recognize it or took it for granted (and at least one even went out of business after I left because no one else could do what I did to bring in business).
I just turned 50 this year, and 5.5 years ago I started working in cybersecurity after a chance encounter working with someone in the industry while helping someone recover their hacked website. It took me just a few minutes to identify how it was hacked and where all the files they used were on the system, and the person I was working with asked if I ever wanted to work in the field because the things I was doing were things you can’t really teach someone how to do, and he thought I was very good - so he would open some doors if I ever wanted to move to his region and enter the industry. I never knew that was an option, so I’d never considered it before, but it sounded interesting so I decided to pursue it. I spent a few years sending out resumes/CV’s and getting no responses from anyone. I finally got a friend who’d known me since high school to get my resume in front of someone at his company, bypassing the normal initial review process, and after an initial phone interview, they requested a different resume that was more traditionally formatted, and after I sent that in, they set up a group interview with the team minus my friend because he wouldn’t be involved in the process since he knew me.
Everyone liked me in the interview, so they made an offer and I took it. I’ve had several substantial raises and a promotion since then and I still get among the most positive feedback from everyone at the company of anyone in the department. I was even nominated for the highest annual award at the company in my 3rd year - only one person gets that award each year and only a dozen or so out of our ~2,800 employees get nominated. I also regularly receive the highest evaluations in my quarterly and annual reviews, so it seems like they’re happy with me, and I mostly enjoy the work and like the company and enjoy almost all the people I work with, so it’s been a pretty good match. I wonder if now I would be able to get interviewed by anyone else or if I’d still find myself ignored by all the AI pre-screening software everyone seems to use these days and not be able to get my resume even seen by human eyes. I seem to really struggle with that initial part - getting noticed and being selected for an interview, but once I work for someone, it’s almost always universally positive and glowing reviews. So I must really suck at first impressions or conveying what I bring to the table.
I suspect that’s probably because I don’t know what I bring to the table, or I don’t think I bring anything to the table. I can tell you what my work history has been, but I can’t tell you what I can do because I don’t know what will be needed until I’m working. I just look at what my job is, what the company needs, and try to think of better or more efficient ways to do the things I’m asked to do, or smarter ways to do things that will improve the business, give the customers a better experience, or make better products, and look for the best and most efficient ways to do those things. To me that isn’t “value” that I’m bringing to the table, though. From my point of view, I’m just doing my job and working. It’s nothing fancy and there aren’t any frills, I just put a lot of effort into finding ways to be exceptional and how to excel at what I do and make my company excel in what it does. But it seems to me that that should basically describe everyone who works somewhere, so it’s nothing to call out or draw attention to or highlight. It’s just doing my job. The feedback I get seems to suggest that it’s not, but since I can’t really see it any other way, I don’t know how to sell myself or show someone what they’d get if they hired me until they do and see it for themselves.
At least that’s been my experience.
Seems like your perseverence and natural (social and mental) defence reflexes pushed you to the path of cybersecurity. For most ASD this is the outcome. In IT engineering software or etc. We stregthen to COPE UP. And the jobs we excel mostly are the ones in which we use our natural surviving techniques. The techniques which we may not like to do, but need to survive.
Going through these responses to see if I am the only one to post something this long. The length of your post has me deciding to post my story. As to yours, you can clearly write very well. It may or may not be common in the neurodivergent, but it is an ability I have too.
Thanks for this video. It confirms that self-employment is a viable option for me. 😊
Congratulations, Aron, it looks like you are thriving. I hope this type of service will become more available in the U.S.
Love this! Seeing these changes happening in the world makes me very happy.
That is amazing! Here in Brazil there a new company with the same purpose that presented in this video, the name is aTip, they focus in neurodivergent people.
recently figured out i am probably autistic and am on a (SIX MONTH) waitlist for a proper diagnosis. my psychologist and i have gone through the criteria and i meet it strongly, as well as OCD. it has shaken my world. growing up, i could never imagine myself with a job because it was just Too Much. i am currently going to university and hope to become a history professor :)
i was told by my psychologist that i should change my psychiatrist because he said i "don't act like the autistic people he knows and am too well spoken so i cannot have autism or ocd." it sent me into a spiral and i shut down for days. i wish more people educated themselves, especially medical professionals whose jobs are to help us. it hurt so much.
Sounds fantastic, we need more places like this! Thanks for sharing this Paul 🙏🏼🙂👍👍
One thing I’ve found really helpful for job interviews is having a trial of the job for an hour before the interview. You get to try the job, see if you like it and the people and I’ve found I’m much less nervous after. I found out I was autistic at 20 but I still had bad job experiences like having multiple meltdowns in my waitressing job and having to quit from being burnt out.
Thank you for sharing this video. I thank you Aron for developing a company for autistic people because you are saying people a life of job heart ache.
I thought theater and performing arts would be good for autistic persons, and although they have given me more confidence, making a living way that is not reliable.
Yeah, it's sad that the more creative & artistic ASC/ASD people usually struggle even more than an NT to find work that is fulfilling, because the field is so unstable, competitive, demanding and low-paid. Autistic people often can't deal well with intense stress, social scrutiny, hustling to make a dime or unsafe/unpleasant living conditions at the best of times, and that is what performing arts entails for most.
There are 3 autistic men in my immediate family, me and my two sons. All of us are among the best at any job you throw at us. Two of us are under employed working as skilled labor.
In Ontario, Canada... my brother... talented and would love to find the right group and employment for him to enjoy and contribute with. 😊
Hope a network evolves out of this and I believe it will grow to that.
I'm 37 and have had engineering jobs and excel at focusing on tasks on the computer. Just got diagnosed with autism (level 1), ADHD, and anxiety a few months ago. My main issues have been avoiding going down rabbit holes, not communicating verbally enough to coworkers (prefer chat and email), and have been hesitant to take on managerial roles because I don't think I'd like it or be good at it.
It always makes me uncomfortable to think that I will be judged by other people before getting a job and that their impression of me is really important. I'm a medical student and the final exam only consists of three orals that aren't related to what I learned during my studies. One I have to present an image (for example a painting), one a current event by annalysing a text and the last one is a discussion with the professors. It reminds me that in the future even after this exam others will always take those skills as granted and think that I'm not doing my job well enough.
I’ve given up - after a decade in the UK jumping through hoops of application writing (exhausts my executive functioning and exposes my Swiss cheese of a cv) rejections (that drove me to suicidal thoughts and expressions ) occasional interview (un-imitgated disaster when a random question made worse by zoom or if i dare ask for accommodations they are dismissed or I am verbal threatened) i have put myself through multiply employment agencies proporting to help me but all they do is lecture me - i was told at the age of 40+ at my ASD assessment to give up and after months I did - i am now homeless and living illegally(because my passport renewal has been delayed by almost a year) in a foreign country (still better than the UK!) trying to put off returning to a situation will kill me - re-writing my CV for the thousandth time isn’t a solution
Wtf, this sounds serious, reminds me of my own situation. Hope you are ok, and have family&friends to help if needed. Stay strong!🙏🏽
I hope things get better for you I can't imagine what you must be going through. Take care
Frankly I get it I used to do hundred mile marches have disability knees spine etc and 53 and they were bullying me using CBT and saying I needed work ethics. I was in winning uk military endurance competitions. They are viscius toxic people mine was reeds partnership and they infantalised me. I’m more Intelligent than their middle class psych abuse . I’ve been suicidal ended up sectioned and was denied pip on multiple misdiagnosis and discriminations. I want out of UK too but got nowhere to run and with disability no money if I need medical help
UK gov were pulled for gravely violating the human rights of the dick and disabled by both UN and ECHR but no one’s protecting us and nothing is changing . I use my spare time as an activist but they are trolling my fb getting me silenced FB has no disability protections re disability discrimination and allows blatant trolling and abuse by narcissists and fascists and outright Nazis. We need help in UK they pretend to help us but it’s psych bullying and punishment snd beaurocracy
And no I have no family support they abused me too. Autism in UK is appalling if you are working class. Cruel bullying and hanging up and fog piling ulus encouraged and the mainstream media and MPs actively encourage it . Though mine has supported me on some issues
I am a cafeteria lady in headstart. Thinking about runnin an icecream truck during summer break. Perfect!
(i was a paralegal :], librarian :), bartender& waitress :#, and construction worker :). Being 'ma' is best.)
Thanks so much for doing this interview, it's great to know that Australia has something like this.
In the U.S. the government combined with academia is actively complicit in harming professional opportunities for those who are differently abled in general- and especially those who are neurodiverse. That's my experience... Repeatedly. And at a variety of positions. It's rather horrifying.
I have no idea what CV's are- I've never heard this term. Also, there's a HUGE difference between "jobs", and careers. I was once involved with a government care organization which involved adults. When they didn't keep the majority doing the thorzine shuffle in the general equivalent of adult day care, they made a habit of boasting about procuring "jobs" of the most menial and meaningless capacity.
Drive through worker, janitor, etc.
For my part I am state licensed in my career field currently, and have experience; though labor and employment systems are so corrupt and exploitive, that I'm currently working retail in the very rural wilderness desert area where I stay after experiencing a hostile work environment, bullying, and what essentially amounts to constructive discharge (technically illegal).
Essentially: only the wicked, violent, and deliberately negligent prevail.
The only way to not be killed (literally starved to death) by this majority is to become it yourself... And if you cannot do that convincingly enough- to stay well away from this majority (in my experience). Thank you for sharing, this is a beacon in a very dismal social reality.
@@traceyc2106 thank you👍
Most of the time, when talking about jobs for autistic people, it seems like it's about people with the asperger kind of presentation. I have yet to find good and extensive info for people who have more of a PDA kind of presentation or people with both autism and ADHD.
🌱🌏💚 KiaOra Paul and friends. My apologies, wasn't able to make this livestream, watching on replay.
Thanks for this very positive video - I have reasonable adjustments at work to help my productively and sanity as a busy Work Coach! I have noise cancelling headphones, sometimes the benefit of a private office plus longer appointments with my customers.
Hi Paul I have endured four years of bulling in the work place got expelled also as last design part of bulling. Now I am doing short term investment.
Can confirm, open office plan is destructive to my workflow
im not sure I agree that employers need to be told to accommodate, they could give choices to everyone but they rarely bother unless you jump up and down about it, then you become "difficult"
Great video as always, do you know if there is an equivalent of Exceptional in the UK please? 😊
This is important but before even talking about this I'll say that I find the idea of having a job unrealistic to begin with, despite having worked for many years of my life prior. I burned out eventually and my autistic challenges have only grown since, add in age and it doesn't get easier. Starting a business would be a step further, so that's a total fantasy. With social challenges, and making breakfast being a legit challenge, that's not something I can wrap my head around, and I'm so confused on how Neurodivergent people would do this, to even get beyond the point of self-care and basic survival taking all your resources and time. I have had success, don't get me wrong I know there's a way to achieve that, but long-term is another thing. Having the stability to function and keep that up in the long run would require a lot of support and accommodation in both private and professional life, and while I've had that to some degree at certain times in life, it never lasts. Things change, environments change, people come and go, and the support doesn't necessarily carry over. Even in stable situations people think after a while you no longer need it, as if I'm suddenly not Autistic or became normal. The better you perform the more it will seem that way, and with the stability and support in place you will perform well, and better with time, but only because it is there. Then there's the lack of knowledge which means they might not really understand what or why you need to begin with, or even believe it. My focus has shifted from a success perspective to a survival perspective, and it's gonna stay that way until I am shown that people have the mentality and knowledge to make it safe and worth going back "out there". Whether that be private aspects or sociopolitical aspects, it's all the same issue, Autism is not understood and supported, let alone valued.
I'm an embedded systems engineer with a strong focus on the software side of things. My specialty is in making sure that all of the choices made when creating a product, be it a physical product or not, serve to progress the team towards the clearly defined goals and expectations of the product within its expected lifetime, including the R&D side. Is this choice going to be beneficial to us as we develop? What are the costs/trade-offs of that choice? If the choice hurts the product as a commercial endeavor but makes it more feasible to develop, is that worth it? Do we need to find something else or do we need to scrap the project early on as a result of a lack of viable options? I also am quite adept at embedded software development, knowing how to identify potential problem areas before problems arise, as well as diagnose problems when issues do occur.
I've been unemployed for a while now, seeking jobs as my job currently. The biggest hurdle I've got is getting my foot in the door. It seems no matter how qualified I am for a job, nobody will really give me a chance. The moment I have an interview with them though, they seem to love me and want me, it just turns out that they want someone else instead. I understand, that's part of the process, I just wish I could get into more interviews instead of not being able to get past the resume stage (step 0, if you will).
I've gotten nothing but positive feedback from interviewers and technical recruiters, so I don't know where I'm going wrong, and I'm starting to get the feeling it has to do with my neurodivergence as a result of the pretty strong difference in communication styles. Maybe it doesn't though, who knows?
Any experience on autistics with no particular fixations/obsessions? I do have interests, yes. But i wouldn't call myself obessed or particularily very knowledgeable about my interests. A neurotyoical sharing the same interest would know more than me
I’m Asperger’s and ADHD. Nursing is a good environment I’ve found first hand. Especially with dexamfetamine. 😅
I decide what careers fit me.
Hey, can you do a video on non-sexual physical intimacy and kissing? I'm 9 months sober of alcohol and so even though I'm married with a kid, we are starting to get intimate again and that kissing anxiety is back in full force. I have also thought about writing a blog article about kissing for autistics, but we've been together 12 years and I feel like I've literally forgotten what a "first kiss" is like. Thanks.
Then add chronic illness and disability to autism especially when you “look fine” and now I have no idea what to do. When there’s not enough jobs for healthy, able bodies, NT people then my son and I don’t have a chance.
I'm autistic and a welder/fabricator, I will say it's got its upside and downs for autistic people, recommendation is bring earbuds to listen to stuff if your allowed to as it is noisy in metal shops, also it's blue collar so sometimes you need to ignore some comments from coworkers, honestly though the good side is if 6ou become a well trusted employee your mostly left alone, I spend many days in my booth helmet down the whole day welding and fab work, if your employer knows your not slacking they won't bother you and you can focus on tasks, plus a lot of other welders are also antisocial, they won't go out of there way to come bother you, biggest hill I will say for some autistic people, it's a never work from home job and not the most flexible hours, like my job let's me take time off if I need it but by flexible I mean like I'm a night owl but my shift starts at 7am no change can be made, it's a small annoyance to me but might cause more problems for other autistic people
For my profession it is expected to be flexible and to be able to be burdened (in german: belastbar), both is a problem for neurodiverse people. If there are comorbidities, it's even not possible to work 40 or 20 hours, but there are no jobs with less hours. So, sometimes it's not the job, but the circumstances that make employment difficult.
well said, often they come hand in hand, like we could potentially do the job itself, but it's everything that comes with it as a default rule that is the problem. Like in schools you could learn well but because of the structure of it all it doesn't suit you so you don't get to focus and excel as easily on the learning part. This structure is not made for you, then that's a problem. I used to be a chef and I'm super talented and effective at the tasks themselves, but it's everything else that is not suited for me at all
@Dezzyx: Yes and the communication with neurotypical colleagues is often difficult as well. Paul mentioned this too in a video about his job as an engineer. If there would be more (or even some) knowledge about what neurodivers meens and needs, it would be better. But that's not how business works. But perhaps the community itself has to start to clear up about our needs and our talents!
My nephew is has aspergers high functioning. Hes 24 never worked and has no social skills. I worry about him. I think he's been bullied before at school & college. He sits in his bedroom all day reading books. Mum and Dad seem to think he's unemployable and has no chance of meeting a nice partner.