I like the phrase “the gift of pastor/teacher”. It begs the question, if you are given the gift of pastor/teacher, why do you have to go to a college and learn it? The qualifications in 1 Timothy specify the OJT training which substantiates your gift, God gives you what you need. Also, going to college locks you into a denomination and teaches you knowledge is inspired by man.
Yes, God does give you what you need. Could you consider this: There would be no need for Peter, John, Paul, James, and other Gospel (OT) writers. Everything would be done by the Lord God. God uses people. When He spoke the Word, everything came into existence. No man was around. But then, He said, "Let Us make man in Our image." From there, the Lord God will use man to bring His message to humanity.
It has nothing to do with a woman's ability at all. It's about obedience to Him. It has to do with how God ordered things, as in the marriage. It is more about trusting in Who He is rather than the qualifications of the person to do it. God is a God of order. Someone may be good at killing but it doesn't make it right to do so. I have had to and continue to learn that submitting to The Lord in each and every circumstance, and to die to myself trusting in Who He is, rather myself and what I feel or want. I am not my own and have been bought with a price. I will be forever maturing in this until I graduate from this world, or He returns. I am to be dependent upon Him in all.
It has to do with the fact that in the Bible the words devil/satan are references to women. There of course is no such thing as the devil/satan. These words only describe women, and additionally all mankind that has come from women.
@seedsower678 . Thank you for your input, though I highly disagree with the devil being real part. Since God and Jesus speak alot about him, I believe them because they cannot lie like we can ,nor can they be decieved as we can be. But if you were right and I was wrong, I'm still ok. But if God's telling the truth, that's not looking so good for ya. I pray that He grants you repentance and opens up the eyes of your understanding to the acknowledging of the truth according to His word, for His word is truth ,and He exalts it above His own name. As far as the woman thing, before I came to Christ, I can guarantee that discription fit me to a tee, but The Lord says this of all unbelievers. I'm so incredibly grateful He had mercy on me and changed me.
@@michellesiegmund6657 ,...You are very welcome. All that I state is only for the edification of the lost and deceived. The 100% apostate church has deceived everyone. The entire church teaches (sells) a 100% counterfeit (antichrist) christianity. It is all unbiblical, science fiction nonsense. The truth is, there absolutely is no such thing as the devil/satan. Again, these words refer only to women and to all mankind that women have produced. Please take a very good look through the Bible and especially Genesis Ch. 1 and 2. You will find that there is nowhere in the Bible where we are told that God created a non human spirit being that is the devil/satan. The 100% false manmade (churchmade) idea of there being a devil/satan has only come from the 100% apostate church. This idea does NOT come from the Bible as you WILL find out if you look. When the people of the church are so absolutely Biblically illiterate that they don't even know who/what the devil/satan is, we can easily see how lost and deceived all the people of the church really are. Gods people are NOT lost, and they are NOT deceived! Did God change you? Or are you just another totally blind, lost, and deceived person snared into the 100% apostate church and into its antichrist christianity? Do you understand that the entire 100% apostate church is filled with those who will say all the things you have said?
Dear Father, my prayer for @al-lv1no is for your covering protection from the narcissistic abuse being experienced. Lord Father, you see all and hear all, please provide safe refuge, peace of mind beyond human comprehension and engulf this person with your unfailing love, in the name of Jesus Christ.
Nice succinct presentation. The book “Biblical Eldership” by Alexander Strauch does a nice job of covering all the church offices. The one gap in the book in my opinion is the topic of “calling”. Which is a very important element as many turn this into a mystical experience leveraging “ Hearing the voice of God” apart from Scripture.
It’s interesting how God used George Mueller even though he started out as a drunken womanizer whose father sent him to divinity school to become a state ordained pastor that could support his father in his old age. More of a dad calling than one from God but God still used this man mightily after he attended a unsponsored, illegal, house church and gave his life to Jesus Christ. He and his wife had a policy that began with their first church that would be good for all of us to put in practice today, especially churches and church related ministries, that of making his needs known to no man but to God only through prayer. It was so effective that he was able to start orphanages that peaked at serving over 2000 children in England with Bible training, an education, training in a serviceable trade, housing, and clothing at a time when their countrymen regarded them as the next lowest thing to a snake’s belly without ever making his needs known to man. We have lost sight of how powerful prayer is in our society.
It’s interesting how God used George Mueller in the 1800’s even though he started out as a drunken womanizer whose father sent him to the state church divinity school to become a state ordained pastor that could support his father in his old age. More of a dad calling than one from God but God still used this man mightily after he attended a unsponsored, illegal, house church that led to his giving his life to Jesus Christ. He and his wife had a strict policy that began with their first church that would be good for all of us to put in practice today, especially churches and church related ministries, that of making his needs known to no man but to God only through prayer. It was so effective that he was able to start orphanages that peaked at serving over 2000 children in England with Bible training, a basic education, training in a serviceable trade, housing, and clothing during a time when their countrymen regarded them as the next lowest thing to a snake’s belly without ever making his needs known to any man. We have lost sight of how powerful prayer is to Jehovah-Jireh, our provider, in our society.
Another principle that has recently dawned on me. If one simply wants to believe and obey God without getting bogged down with human input. Maybe, rather than analyzing details of scripture to "figure it out," we could ask "what does God prescribe as the duties of a person?" For example, we should ask "what does God say in His Word about what a woman should be doing?" Rather than "is it OK for a woman to fill such or such a role?"
Ok, so Deborah was a Judge over Israel. Her husband was not. ...the judges of Israel, whom I commanded to shepherd My people... In all places where I have walked with all Israel, have I spoken a word with any of the judges of Israel, whom I commanded to shepherd My people, saying, ‘Why have you not built Me a house of cedar?’ -excerpt 1 Chronicles 17 verse 6 NASB translation
Crystal clear. It's the exact same thing with the office of deacon. All Christians are called to have "diakonos" or the spirit of serving or ministry's, but the office of deacon in the church in 1 Timothy 3:12 clearly says let the deacons be the husbands of one wife. I love the emphatic clear pace and sincerity. Thank you for rightly dividing the truth.
Written by Paul. The qualifications he put forward bar him from being a deacon or elder. So he gave himself the forbidden title/position of 'father'. This was settled at about 1100 B.C. Judges 4 and 5, else my free essay on Deborah.
I do not suffer a woman to teach...or have authority over a man...HOW CLEAR DO YOU WANT IT😅? That's crystal to me. Preaching is teaching however you rework it it's the truth. You really have to deceive yourself to believe otherwise. Teaching also comes with authority automatically, it's literally part of the word description. How can you teach without having authority? Who would truly listen? Also the fact that it's clearly stated, BECAUSE EVE WAS DECEIVED... women should show the utmost submission in a biblical church. The Bible also provides many ways woman SHOULD be. And leadership is not in those examples. We're so obsessed with being equal and socially relevant, we're giving up clearly stated direction for the entire church. We must repent and pray for true revival and not surface cultural Christianity. It's very dangerous to misinterpret the scriptures and it's leading many to a false gospel with false salvation and a false idea of the messiah Yeshua the LORD Jesus Christ. GOD will not be mocked. Play time is over and time is short. We must tell the truth.
@@Szpak-123 Exceptions are not the standard. Some women are indeed good teachers, but if they are put in the position of pastor/elder, it is setting a new precedent, that is against the order that God has ordained. That is how the whole problem got started back in Genesis 3. "Did God really say..... Yes He said it and He meant it, you will surely die. Nothing new under the sun, unless you are under the Son. We cannot disagree with what God said, for doing so is sin.
@@gordoncrawley5826 Since a woman could be a pastor in the Old Covenant, a woman can be a pastor in the New Covenant. Simple really. I suggest my free scripturally-based essay on Deborah. Men and women are perfectly equal spiritually. She was a pastor, according to the scriptures. This is how the Judges are described in Chronicles, by God. ...the judges of Israel, whom I commanded to shepherd My people... In all places where I have walked with all Israel, have I spoken a word with any of the judges of Israel, whom I commanded to shepherd My people, saying, ‘Why have you not built Me a house of cedar?’ -excerpt 1 Chronicles 17 verse 6 NASB translation A woman could only be given the authority by God to execute a man for his sin, if women are spiritually equal to men. A Judge could judge homicide cases according to Deuteronomy. Therefore Deborah, as a Judge, could execute a man for his sin. A Judge's verdict could not be altered or appealed. A Judge was REQUIRED in scripture to judge only the hardest of cases. Refusal to accept a Judge's verdict on any matter, resulted in execution, according to Deuteronomy. A Judge was cleared to teach from scripture as he/she gave a verdict, according to Deuteronomy. Since in Judges 4, men went to Deborah to be judged, a woman could teach men, even in the Old Covenant in a public setting. If your beliefs can't explain all this, they must be false. Full read time: 10 minutes postable here
@@Szpak-123 In the Bible there are prescriptive and descriptive passages… Yes, Deborah was described as the Judge over Israel, but God has prescribed (ordered) the church through Paul or how the order of the church shall be here on Earth. Henceforth, we are to listen to God’s ordained order in the church. Let’s all just take heed to God’s word and work together, and love one another🙏🏽 Forever and always.
Thank you for trying to bring clarity to a hotly disputed topic with a short teaching based on scripture. The NT church of the first century bears little resemblance to the way most modern-day churches are run. I think some things have become distorted and corrupted (probably a strategy of satan to destroy the church). I have followed some excellent teachings by (gifted) women teachers who clearly know the bible and have done their homework. At the same time, I used to attend a church run by a husband/wife pastoral team (senior and associate pastors). The husband could preach a good sermon but often his teachings were peppered with untruths. The wife pastor was a pulpit bully and some of her sermons were really toxic.
You, like EVERYONE else here have spoken in absolute unbiblical ignorance! All of you completely Biblically illiterate people only expose how the entire church is all 100% apostate. There are NO Christians in ANY church!
After spending a few years in the ministry of Bible translation, I realized the profound challenges with languages and that everything involves choices. Choices that are made by people from different backgrounds, bringing some bias to the table. That impacts even our translations. We also pick and choose what to enforce. You cite the passage that requires an elder to be the husband of one wife. Some choose to make that all about being male but few argue that an elder must be married, not single. We can also raise the question about who decides what gifts are bestowed. Is it not the Holy Spirit that does the gifting?
Taking those passages as literally requiring a male, would, as you say, also require marriage -- AND children (plural). The CEB and CEV translations are relevant here.
Male headship is seen all through the bible from the very beginning to the very end. Man was created first and God gave him authority. Woman was made from man as a helper for man. She is not inferior to man, but God gave her a different role in life. The role of mother is to be highly honored as she alone can bring life into the world. She is the homemaker and sets the course of her children's lives. Men are to be the head both in the family and the church to keep the order of God consistent in human life. To offset the danger of the abuse of women, God gave the command to love them. The three persons of the trinity are deemed as male and so to the angels. Christ, the second Adam, will rule as King forever. Keeping the Creation Order of male headship is much more important than we may think, and it is God ordained and is evident in the scriptures. For example, transgressing the Creation Order is how we got to SSM, a serious abomination.
Deborah was a mother, FYI. A woman could only be given the authority by God to execute a man for his sin, if women are spiritually equal to men. A Judge could judge homicide cases according to Deuteronomy. Therefore Deborah, as a Judge, could execute a man for his sin. A Judge's verdict could not be altered or appealed. A Judge was REQUIRED in scripture to judge only the hardest of cases. Refusal to accept a Judge's verdict on any matter, resulted in execution, according to Deuteronomy.
An amendment from 1 Corinthians 15 verse 45 and 47. Christ is the LAST Adam and the SECOND Man. He ended the spiral of death from Adam by His death and brought about a new order of everlasting life by His resurrection. If any man be in Christ, he is a new creature 2 Cor 5v17. It shows that we can have our theology tainted even by good hymnwriters such as John Henry Newman who wrote in "Praise to the holiest in the height" "a second Adam to the fight and to the rescue came"!
There is no "office" called pastor/teacher. That is an interpretive stretch without scriptural support. Elder/overseer is the office and they must have the ability to teach or they fail the test. Paul says to elders that they must shepherd the flock. Again, teaching and shepherding are the work -- not the office.
@@Szpak-123 One must wonder if you are truly saved by the grace of God! If Paul is even ALMOST a false teacher, you are denying the truth of the Word of God about the Gospel as taught by Paul. Then the New Testament churches also have at best a shaky foundation since it is built upon the apostles and prophets, Paul being the key apostle in this regard.
@@danc1579 I've been a Christian a long time. I used to just accept everything by Paul, but those days are long gone. Top suggestions if any reader should wish a study: Part 10 The most serious false teaching of Paul. Part 6 Another serious false teaching of Paul (This entire informal essay is too long to be pasted up all at once.) TABLE OF CONTENTS OF: PAUL HIS FALSE, CONTRADICTORY, AND CONFUSING TEACHINGS -S. Szpak INTRODUCTION Part 1 PAUL'S CONVERSION STORY Part 2 PAUL INSTRUCTS/ORDERS TIMOTHY TO BE CIRCUMCISED Part 3 PAUL CONTRADICTS HIS OWN TEACHING ON TONGUES AND PROPHECY Part 4 PAUL STATES IT IS ACCEPTABLE TO EAT FOOD SACRIFICED TO IDOLS AS LONG AS NO ONE SEES YOU DOING SO Part 5 PAUL SEEMS TO ALTER HIS BELIEFS AND WHATEVER ELSE IS NECESSARY FOR THE "SAKE OF THE GOSPEL". Part 6 PAUL TEACHES THAT A HUSBAND RULES OVER HIS WIFE Part 7 PAUL'S SUPPORT FOR MARRIAGE IS WEAK Part 8 PAUL WRITES OF HEARING DIVISIONS WITHIN THE CHURCH AND HOW THIS WAS NOT PROPER AND SHOULD STOP YET STATES THAT CHRISTAINS SHOULD FOLLOW PAUL Part 9 PAUL WAS OK WITH THE UNSAVED PREACHING THE GOSPEL Part 10 PAUL REFERS TO HIMSELF AS A SPIRITUAL FATHER THE MOST SERIOUS FALSE TEACHING OF PAUL Part 11 PAUL STATES THAT WOMEN SHOULD BE SILENT Part 12 PAUL IS OPPOSED TO WOMEN BEING ELDERS. THEREFORE HE IS OPPOSED TO WOMEN BEING SHEPHERDS/PASTORS. PART 13 PAUL'S FALSE BELIEF THAT THE RETURN OF JESUS WOULD TAKE PLACE WITHIN A HUMAN LIFETIME RESULTS IN HIM TEACHING AGAINST MARITAL SEX AND NORMAL EMOTIONS PART 14 PAUL STATES THAT HE IS A PERFECT CHRISTIAN Part 15 PAUL TEACHES THAT CHRISTIANITY IS HIERARCHICAL CONCLUSION AND FINAL THOUGHTS
Paul was not married. He states that in his letters. Paul's instruction that only men can pastor and teach in the church doesn't mean that women have no place in ministry. Jesus had women follow him and provide for him out of their abundance. He never sent them out to teach or preach but they certainly did share what they had learned with people they spoke to but no from a position of authority as a Disciple/Apostle or Pastor/Teacher. Think of it like this, because a husband is the head of his house and he is the head of his wife, does that mean she has no place in the home, or no work to do, and that she cannot participate in any valuable way. Certainly not, she is very valuable. A good wife is a treasure and a crown on her husbands head. But when she wants to be the head, she usurps the authority of her husband and rebels against God's will.
@@Jehosaphat-xf4bx Paul taught a hierarchical and false view of Christianity. Men over women. Even men over men. The scriptures available to the Christians of the first century were only those of the Old Testament. It was good enough for them. It should be good enough for us. If one understands the authority of a Judge over Israel (covered in my informal essay) one has to explain what exactly changed when the New Covenant came to be. Paul said Paul said, is not an explanation. A Judge could be a man or woman. A Judge, according to Deuteronomy, could teach scripture. A Judge was the primary pastor/shepherd of God's people. To say a woman can't be an elder in the smallest of Christian churches is ALL Paul. Also an insult to all women, since women were made in the image of God, as well as men.
Some observations: -- Given the active debates about the proper translation of several words in 1 Tim. 2:11-12, especially "authenteo," it seems odd to view it as one of the "clear" passages. -- Given that Scripture never uses the word "office" in regard to "pastor" or "elder" any other ministry, it seems odd to try to delineate a distinction on that basis. Certainly it does not occur in Eph. 4, which makes your emphasis on it there odd. -- It seems odd and careless to interpret Eph. 4:10-11 without considering the "charis" and "gifts" terminology in v. 7-8 of the passage. Likewise, it seems odd and careless to interpret the passage in isolation from 1 Cor. 12-13 and Rom. 12, where similar words and concepts occur. -- The idea that the listings in 1 Tim. 3 and Tit. 1 are to be universal rules rather than ad hoc guidelines is of course a hermeneutical presupposition. Even assuming that to be true, there is no justification to focus on the "maleness" as opposed to the equal "necessity" to be *married* AND to have *multiple* children. Finally, the proper translation of "mias guniakos andra" and of the various (and always ungendered) pronouns are debated; see CEB and CEV translations. Ultimately, whatever the Bible "REALLY" teaches about women in the church, it is not at all clear that your view is correct.
Exactly. It seems like he is using really spurious arguments with a very poor knowledge of Greek, hermeneutics and the cultural context, especially how to interpret letters versus stories and commands. Oh dear!
The early disciples' model for the congregations was what they knew: the synagogue. Men as elders and teachers was the norm. It coincided with the larger culture in the Roman world. (That is what is documented in the New Testament.) But they also understood that the Spirit knew no distinction between Jew and Greek, men and women, slave and free. All were one in Christ. Today, in lands where it is culturally acceptable, the evidence is that the Spirit is making use of women to teach the gospel. Both to women and to men. And why not? Why would he not use half of his workforce?
You are taking "their is neither Jew nor Greek, Slave nor Free, Male nor Female" out of context. The same Paul that wrote this, also wrote that women should not teach in the church and should remain silent. I don't think Paul was mistaken in his understanding, or that he was teaching opposing views to different bodies.. We must look at the whole of scripture. But in regards to the scripture you reference out of Galatians, it is in regards to inheritance. Directly before your quoted scripture Paul says "For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus." And directly after your stated scripture Paul says "and if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise." So there is no more distinction based on the flesh as to who is the heirs of the promise given to Abraham and his seed, because we are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. But this doesn't go as far as to say that there is absolutely no difference between men and women in regards to calling and appointment to serve. You need to take into account authority given by God when considering appointment by Christ to serve in the Body. And a women is not to be in authority over a man. I used to think different but the Holy Spirit teaches us truth and through prayer and study I have come to change my mind and believe the truth. This doesn't cast woman off or demean them, that is the mistake people make, it is us simply following scripture.
@@Jehosaphat-xf4bx This is the eternal reality, that all are equal and one in Christ. The other is the pragmatic choices made in the church within specific cultural contexts. Those contexts are different today. And the evidence around the world is that the Spirit is using women to get his work done.
@@stephenbailey9969 You mean to say that the same Spirit that taught Paul and by which Paul wrote his letters has changed his mind. I think not. God having placed women under the authority of a man is in no way a cultural context. God told Eve that she would experience pain in child birth and that her husband would rule over her. Was pain in child birth a cultural context. I jest a bit to prove a point. The cultural context today is for Men to be cowardly followers, drowning in sin, not leading their families and not taking responsibility, and for women to reject the authority that God has placed over them. The lack of Godly fathers in the home, massive divorce rates and remarriage and feminism in Christian homes is the issue. Was the Holy Spirit attempting to use women in positions of Authority for the last 6000 and just now finally succeeded. I think not.
@@stephenbailey9969 This scripture is not saying that either. It is about inheritance. Greeks, Slave, and women could not inherit the land. Through Christ though we are 'Sons of God.' Notice how he calls us all 'Sons'. We all as 'sons' are going to inherit the kingdom. Slaves didn't have a right to inheritance, Greeks didn't have a right to inheritance, woman didn't have a right to inheritance. You sound like you are quoting the American constitution when you say that 'all are equal.' God said to Eve that she would have pain in Child birth and that her husband would rule over her. God put women under authority to men. It is in no way just a cultural context. what was the culture of the garden of Eden? Paul wrote his letter by inspiration of the Holy Spirit and you say, the same Holy Spirit who was against women in authority over men has changed his mind and is now doing the opposite. And the same God who put women under authority of men is now doing just the opposite after 6000 years. Why didn't Jesus change it when He was on the earth. But you say it must have been God because, look it is happening. Not a great argument for believing and walking in the truth of scripture.
@@Jehosaphat-xf4bx We are not under the Law. We are under grace. That was the importance of Paul's statement, "There is neither Jew nor Greek, male nor female, slave nor free." This is the eternal reality. In this age of men, on the other hand, there are other rules that we live by here on earth, according to God's permissive will. The importance is to take the gospel to the people, no matter the cultural norms. For one day the eternal shall come in power and replace this age and its oppressions. In some lands today, those norms have changed, and women are no longer seen as property. In those lands, denominations can make use of women to teach, and they do. The Spirit is rewarding their work. Is the Holy Spirit inconsistent? No. He is of the eternal. But God has always delegated some decisions to men to deal with. Paul's instructions to his churches are practical matters within the context of his day. They do not deal with matters of sin or salvation. They are not Law for us.
@@Ricksbookshelf Full essay read time: 10 minutes free postable here The Judge was the primary/senior pastor/shepherd at that time period. (In case the reader in unaware, the word pastor and the word shepherd are the same word. I prefer shepherd, because it has obvious meaning to the average person.) Major modern English translations like the NASB use the phrasing ...whom I commanded to shepherd My people... In all places where I have walked with all Israel, have I spoken a word with any of the judges of Israel, whom I commanded to shepherd My people, saying, ‘Why have you not built Me a house of cedar?’ -excerpt 1 Chronicles 17 verse 6 NASB translation Some believe that pastor (or shepherd), is a position that was created in the New Covenant. This is not true. In the Old Testament shepherds are mentioned multiple times. Often in a negative way. “My people have become lost sheep; Their shepherds have led them astray. -excerpt Jeremiah 50 For an entire chapter on worthless shepherds, the reader may check out Ezekiel 34. When the shepherd over Israel died, the people went back into sin. That is because the Judge was the most important spiritual leader of this time period. But it came about, when the judge died, that they would turn back and act more corruptly than their fathers, in following other gods to serve them and bow down to them; they did not abandon their practices or their obstinate ways. -excerpt Judges 2
Do not wear a crew cut white t-shirt under a polo. Just go straight polo or v-neck so the t-shirt doesn’t show. Try it. The neck lines will look so much better.
We need to read scripture and pay attention to the Jewish thought of the day, looking at the audience and what problems Paul was addressing. Reading/interpreting scripture from a western mindset gives a wrong picture.
Excellent teaching. I noticed that you mentioned head covering for Christian women and then did not discuss it. Everybody is avoiding the elephant in the room!
When I was a pastor in a conservative church our denomination taught that only THAT part of the verse was cultural. A consistent interpretation would require women to wear a head covering. Also I see a lot internet Christians quote from Deuteronomy to smite the sinner. So I leave you this reminder for women in the church Deuteronomy 25 :11 “When men fight with one another and the wife of the one draws near to rescue her husband from the hand of him who is beating him and puts out her hand and seizes him by the private parts, 12 then you shall cut off her hand. Your eye shall have no pity. ESV
There seem to be two different types of headcoverings discussed in that passage- long hair which is her everyday covering and an additional fabric covering for when she prays or prophesies in the church. It seems the purpose of the head covering was a ststement- not a statement to angels, but to messengers (same word) or visitors to the church who might get the wrong impression and think it was ok for a woman to be in a teaching or leadership position. I believe the fabric covering makes the statement that the woman praying or prophesying in a public church gathering is an out-of-the-ordinary event and that she is still under male authority and not in a leadership position.
@@dianeschrimsher9984 Thank you! That the word is simply “messengers” is rarely (if ever) a part of the discussion on head covering, though it’s a key component to understanding the text. Defining what it means to prophesy, as the command for her to cover is connected to her prophesying, is probably the most important to understanding whether women are required to cover today and where people will differ on the subject.
I'm praying for the Lord to call his church to equal weights in handling the Scripture! The way that text has been dismissed as a cultural issue is appalling in light of all the other instructions to the New Testament church that people can clearly see have no basis in culture. Likewise the apostle did not base his analysis in 1 Cor 11 in culture but in the creation order and male headship. I guess it's not so important to the male pastors so they don't hold it as firmly as women pastoring but it will be important to the women in discipleship if they are not encouraged to hold Scripture authoratitively.
The Bible clearly says that Paul was under the direct authority of Jesus to teach and correct. His life was specifically chosen to be a direct piece in the word of God. Jesus is the word of God. Since Paul is under direct authority, his teaching comes directly from Jesus. This means if Paul didn't permit something in the church, then Jesus doesn't permit it either. The word of God is not divided. Jesus is not divided. There should be no division of this in the church either. We don't dismiss the book of Revelations because Jesus didn't physically write it. We don't cast off the book as simply John's personal opinions. No, we know this is the Holy Spirit of Christ working and revealing these things to John for us. We can be sure it comes from Jesus, not John's "feelings". So then, why would we ever do this to Paul's teachings.
you wrote: Since Paul is under direct authority, his teaching comes directly from Jesus. Paul's teachings on multiple subjects are all over the place. Part 3 PAUL CONTRADICTS HIS OWN TEACHING ON TONGUES AND PROPHECY So then, tongues are for a sign, ..to unbelievers; ...and all the people speak in tongues, and ...unbelievers enter, will they not say that you are insane? ...but prophecy is not for unbelievers, but for those who believe. But if all prophesy, and an unbeliever ...enters...so he will fall on his face and worship God... In the Law it is written: “By men of strange tongues and by the lips of strangers I will speak to this people, and even so they will not listen to Me,” says the Lord. So then, tongues are for a sign, not to those who believe but to unbelievers; but prophecy is not for unbelievers, but for those who believe. Therefore if the whole church gathers together and all the people speak in tongues, and outsiders or unbelievers enter, will they not say that you are insane? But if all prophesy, and an unbeliever or an outsider enters, he is convicted by all, he is called to account by all; the secrets of his heart are disclosed; and so he will fall on his face and worship God, declaring that God is certainly among you. -excerpt 1 Corinthians 14 NASB Paul states that "prophecy is not for unbelievers" but then states that prophesying will cause an unbeliever to "fall on his face and worship God".
@Szpak-123 prophesy is not for unbelivers. Paul means exactly that. Unbelivers will NOT prophesy. Meaning it will not be a true prophesy from the Holy Spirit. This does not mean that a true prophesy from a believer will not cause an unbeliver to fall on his face in astonishment. So pauls says this as well. Have you not read the scriptures that every knee will fall when they see Jesus. Even the unbeliever will fall to their knees.
@@jessebaker9011 So then, tongues are for a sign, ..to unbelievers; ...and all the people speak in tongues, and ...unbelievers enter, will they not say that you are insane? As I wrote: Paul's teachings on multiple subjects are all over the place. This example above is just one (Part 3). I have several more. At least two are serious false teachings. you wrote: Since Paul is under direct authority, his teaching comes directly from Jesus. Every man Jesus chose, whether Judas, Peter, Thomas, or myself is flawed. Flawed men don't become perfect teachers. Only Jesus is a perfect teacher. Paul was heavily influenced by the culture of his day. Jesus taught against a hierarchical view of what would soon be known as the Way (now called Christianity). But I confess this to you, that in accordance with the Way, which they call a sect, I do serve the God of our fathers,... -excerpt Acts 24 Paul taught that in Christianity men were over women. Even that men were over men. This entire subject regarding 'women in ministry' was settled at about 1100 B.C The Judge was the primary pastor/shepherd of God's people at that time period. Deborah. Judges 4 and 5, else my free informal postable essay on her. Read time: 10 minutes
@Your_Uncle_is_watching Blessed are those who have been persecuted for the sake of righteousness, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. “Blessed are you when people insult you and persecute you, and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of Me. Rejoice and be glad, for your reward in heaven is great; for in this same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you. -excerpt Matthew 5 -words of Jesus Indeed, all who want to live in a godly way in Christ Jesus will be persecuted. -excerpt 2 Timothy 3 I then thought it the more needful to get at the facts behind their statements. Therefore I placed two women, called “deaconesses,” under torture, but I found only a debased superstition carried to great lengths, so I postponed my examination, and immediately consulted you. -excerpt Pliny the Younger’s Letter to Emperor Trajan Regarding the Christians about 111 A.D.
A methodological comment.. There is no principle to interpret unclear passages in the light of more clear passages IF it involves ignoring the principle of Authors intent. We must assume the authors of scripture knew how to effectively communicate to their own audiences. We need be cautious of interpreting one authors meaning by another's .. the scriptures are not a reference book or flat meanings . They all have a specific context. Comparing scripture with scripture is a often abused hermeneutic..
Good grief man, don’t you ever believe in taking scripture in a cultural context rather than thinking that Paul was just sitting in an office writing theology? You say you shouldn’t build doctrine on difficult passages, yet you do without taking into account of the passages like Romans 16 when Paul tells us some of his fellow workers, i.e. ministers are women. Now I have known several women who have gone into places, and pastored churches where men have failed and raised up a great church. Souls have been saved a new buildings have been built and a missionary outreach established. Yet you are saying they shouldn’t of done it because they are out of the will of God? And don’t get me going on the many women who go to the mission field where men don’t go. They don’t sit in a chair pontificating on TH-cam, they just get on with the job.
You have only exposed your completely Biblically illiterate, spiritually dead, blind, lost, unsaved, and deceived condition. You know nothing of the truth of the Bible and remain 100% outside of the kingdom of God. You are accursed of God, and are Gods enemy. Repent!
So you have known women who walk contrary to scripture and have succeeded in winning souls. Thus we should follow the result, instead of scripture. Could they have won the same souls outside of the church setting? Women can witness, right?, or can they only do it from the pulpit. I am not a pastor, can I win souls, should I share my faith with my work mates, my family, my friends, my neighbors. Or do I need to take a position that Christ hasn't called me to, to be able to accomplish something. Does God cast aside obedience to scripture because something good is coming out of it?
@@Jehosaphat-xf4bx the problem is that they only walk contrary to your misreading of scripture. Look at Romans 16 and Paul names fellow ministers who are women! Of course, I do realise that the Almighty has to walk in a straight jacket of man-ordained dogma. The fact is that where there are willing hearts God does what He likes - ‘In the Messiah there is neither male nor female…’
I think it is a mistake to ground the argument against women's ordination in the two office argument, since it is not so obvious that the three and four office views are false, but women would still be disqualified anyway. If every pastor is an elder but not every elder is a pastor, and if all elders must be male, then a woman may serve neither as elder nor pastor.
@@Jehosaphat-xf4bx (N.N. personal note) I wrote an informal free postable essay on Deborah. I go to multiple Old Testament books to explain her story AND what a Judge was. There is little opinion in the essay. There is much scripture. Old Testament scripture, all the people of the first century had to go by.
@@Szpak-123 I read the Story of Deborah this morning. You reject potions of the bible as being true, so how can you stand on any part of it? How many Deborah's do you see? One. How many Men do you see in these positions. All of them except the one time of Deborah. Prophetess have always been around. But a woman being a judge, well that is different. How many women priests do you see, how many women served in the temple or in any of the Levitical duties before God. How many women did Jesus send out when he sent the 12 and the 70. How many women were appointed by God to early Church positions of Authority. If you want to use any of the account of Deborah to support woman ministry then lets weigh it apples for apples. God will use one woman every 3000-4000 years to lead in a position of authority within a God called congregation, is that fair. I just turned my TV on and seen the one woman pastor, so I guess the rest are not called. I still have to work to feed myself and my family, why?
@@Jehosaphat-xf4bx (N.N. personal note) Sorry for the delay. I'm not getting notifications from this thread. you wrote: I read the Story of Deborah this morning. That's a start, but Judges 4 and 5 is only the beginning. My informal essay goes to multiple Old Testament books. Read time: 10 minutes postable here you wrote: How many women priests do you see... In the Old Covenant, now gone never to come back, the priests had to have a certain genetic code. They had to be from the line of Levi and male. Also perfect physically. If a priest broke his foot and it didn't heal properly he was no longer to be a priest. His heart toward God was irrelevant, as his body was permanently damaged. The Old Covenant has passed away, so the new priesthood is no longer based on genetic code plus a perfect body. It isn't based on birthright. So it isn't based on the male gender. If it was still based on the male gender, then it would still have to be based on birthright. And coming to Him as to a living stone which has been rejected by people, but is choice and precious in the sight of God, you also, as living stones, are being built up as a spiritual house for a holy priesthood, to offer spiritual sacrifices that are acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for God’s own possession, so that you may proclaim the excellencies of Him who has called you out of darkness into His marvelous light; for you once were not a people, but now you are the people of God; you had not received mercy, but now you have received mercy. -excerpts 1 Peter 2
It's a very sad thing, because the church has decided it will follow the standards of the world more than keep and obey the commands of God and his words ,the church and it's leaders would rather try to defend rather than comply with the authoritative instructions we are supposed to be be following. Satan has used his influence over the church and that's why we are in the position but we can change that by getting back to what the word teaches us and stand firm on that. Martin Luther was one man ,but God used him to cause the reformation that brought about change and freedom for people, all because he stood by his conviction on the basis of scripture although many died for the defiance ,today we are free to worship God without any big shots over the church, It's God's church, God's creation, He is in charge and to him we must give praise and glory not to any man no matter who he is or how rich Powerful and popular he is .
What you, and everyone else snared into the 100% apostate church have failed to understand is, the entire church 100% of it, is apostate and has been from the very beginning. There are NO Christians in any church, only the spiritually dead, blind, lost, unsaved, and the completely deceived. Repent!
A question I ask which often creates discomfort in men is, who knows the heart of the Father better or more, the son or the daughter? This is a rhetorical question with only one obvious answer. A question if one answers honestly will have to come to the obvious and definitive answer concerning mans calling and function in the church and his duty to exercise righteous authority over the women in the body. If one just examines the fruit that comes from women pastors, you will find that most, if not all women pastors who govern a church govern with a compassion that is always soft and even protective of those in sin, often perceiving them as marginalized people or victims who need to be protected. The need to protect from the bullies, from those who are orthodox, becomes a women’s first instinct, being compelled by her motherly compassion to protect the perceived victim and not by the Holy Spirit.
We know that's what you think and what you think is the solution to problems - but what does God say? Could what He says about His solution be good and sufficient for the church and the care of the flock/His people?
@@daveyo8221 I am not sure what you are arguing, for women pastors or against. You say, “We know that’s what you think and what you think is the solution to problems”. Who is we? Refute what “I think”. I will ask you, who knows the heart of the Father better, the Son or the daughter? There is only one right answer. Can you or will you answer it?
@robertknox7050 - the qualification for Elders / Pastors outlined in the Bible is not "who knows the heart of the Father better." So what are the qualifications - do you know where these are found in the Bible? I understand you saying that you *think* the solution for victimised people is women pastors - could it be that the qualifications for a Pastor/Elder from Scripture is God's design, good, and protects women, children (and men)?
@robertknox7050 - your question about knowing the heart of the Father is not the right question: "What has God said" IS the RIGHT question. The OT and NT is littered with examples of Israel / God's people being rebuked for their so-called logical deducing of how they should worship and/or lead his people, rather than obeying what He clearly said to them.
@robertknox7050 unless... did I understand you incorrectly, and you are perhaps NOT for women pastors and were wanting to show that the fruit from women Pastors is negative? Even so, I would still ask the better question "what has God said" which is clearer and less subjective about what is good and bad fruit from a humanistic sense, and indeed God's Word says clearly what good and bad fruit actually is, and His design for men and women.
Have you ever considered that you aren’t a Christian at all? It seems more like you are teaching a “Paul Cult” theology and not the teachings of Jesus.
Paul said that he got revelation directly from Jesus Christ so his teachings are authoritative. If that is not true, then his Gospel is suspect, and if the Gospel is the power unto salvation (Romans 1:16) then we all have a defective faith, for how can we know what is truth and what is not in the scriptures? It is all or it is nothing at all, just another man made religion. Either you believe it or you don't.
So the words of Jesus are inadequate? So Paul received an Anointing greater than the cleaning lady? I think NOT! The words of Moses were God’s words and your predecessors the Pharisees, Scribes, and Sadducees perverted them just like you do the words of Paul. They tore apart Judaism the way this guy is tearing apart the Church of Jesus by teaching their own stupidity and not the words of Jesus. G3 is the modern pharisaical movement and Jesus decried woe unto the first batch. The problem wasn’t Moses then, and its not Paul now, the problem is the modern reformed Pharisee.
You are confusing preaching with sermons. Preaching can be done by any believer, it’s proclaiming good news. Patriarchal arrogance renames preaching as witnessing. European biblical misunderstanding is a major quirk in the worldwide body of Christ.
Many new believers haven't yet had the opportunity to read through the entire Bible yet, and certainly not study its context. Discernment videos will always be not only necessary, but also a benefit to those who may be new in the faith, and also those who may be weak due to weak leadership. Praise God and thank him for your ability to understand without it. But I wouldn't discourage the making of the video for those who don't. It may cause them to open that Bible and take a deeper look to see if what he says is true.
@@briannehill7583 Paul never walked with Jesus. Paul taught a hierarchical and false view of Christianity. Men over women. Men over men. I've looked and written informally on this. Once you see it, you can't un-see it. Regardless, there still is Deborah. The Christians of the first century that knew her story AND the authority of a Judge over Israel knew this entire 'women in ministry' matter was settled with her centuries earlier. The scriptures of the Old Testament was all that they had to go by. It was good enough for them. It should be good enough for us.
I would argue that the doctrine of Calvinism is 💯 Biblical. Its NOT John Calvin's doctrine, its Biblical. Those who speak against Calvinism, dont truly understand it. Theyve only heard garbage lies taught from someone who is Biblically ignorant.
@@SolusChristus76 I think your claim non Calvinists have never understood doesn't withstand scrutiny. I left it behind by reading the bible more carefully and not making it conform to an external interpretative grid.
@@SolusChristus76 I think your claim non Calvinists have never understood won't withstand scrutiny. There are those of us who left it behind by _reading the bible more carefully_ and not making it conform to an external interpretative grid set out in confessions and systematic theology.
We need a Pentecostal tongue talking holy rolling fire baptized Holy Ghost revival in the United States today we need a second azusa street revival now 🔥🔥⛪🔥🔥
G3, there's no Biblical restrictions on women teaching in Church. But that aside, you really need to get your facts right about the Biblical God and His teachings on salvation and other teachings that you oppose.
@@Andy-m8b ,...What the spiritually dead and blind call "Calvinism" is the truth, the gospel, and the Christianity of the Bible. The reason you fail to understand the truth of the Bible and how "Calvinism" is in fact 100% correct Biblical doctrine is because you are accursed of God and are Gods enemy. All those who are against the truth, the gospel, and the Christianity of the Bible that they refer to as "Calvinism" are vessels of wrath, and brute beasts made only to be destroyed,...... 2 Peter 2:12 "But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;" Jude 1:10 "But these speak evil of those things which they know not: but what they know naturally, as brute beasts, in those things they corrupt themselves." Romans 9:22 "What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:"
I like the phrase “the gift of pastor/teacher”. It begs the question, if you are given the gift of pastor/teacher, why do you have to go to a college and learn it? The qualifications in 1 Timothy specify the OJT training which substantiates your gift, God gives you what you need. Also, going to college locks you into a denomination and teaches you knowledge is inspired by man.
Yes, God does give you what you need. Could you consider this: There would be no need for Peter, John, Paul, James, and other Gospel (OT) writers. Everything would be done by the Lord God. God uses people. When He spoke the Word, everything came into existence. No man was around. But then, He said, "Let Us make man in Our image." From there, the Lord God will use man to bring His message to humanity.
wrong! Read Scripture better
@ cute name, would love to correct you, but I should not have a battle of the wits with an unarmed individual
It has nothing to do with a woman's ability at all. It's about obedience to Him. It has to do with how God ordered things, as in the marriage. It is more about trusting in Who He is rather than the qualifications of the person to do it. God is a God of order. Someone may be good at killing but it doesn't make it right to do so.
I have had to and continue to learn that submitting to The Lord in each and every circumstance, and to die to myself trusting in Who He is, rather myself and what I feel or want. I am not my own and have been bought with a price. I will be forever maturing in this until I graduate from this world, or He returns. I am to be dependent upon Him in all.
Well said. Yes, its that simple.
It has to do with the fact that in the Bible the words devil/satan are references to women. There of course is no such thing as the devil/satan. These words only describe women, and additionally all mankind that has come from women.
@seedsower678 . Thank you for your input, though I highly disagree with the devil being real part. Since God and Jesus speak alot about him, I believe them because they cannot lie like we can ,nor can they be decieved as we can be. But if you were right and I was wrong, I'm still ok. But if God's telling the truth, that's not looking so good for ya. I pray that He grants you repentance and opens up the eyes of your understanding to the acknowledging of the truth according to His word, for His word is truth ,and He exalts it above His own name.
As far as the woman thing, before I came to Christ, I can guarantee that discription fit me to a tee, but The Lord says this of all unbelievers. I'm so incredibly grateful He had mercy on me and changed me.
@@michellesiegmund6657 ,...You are very welcome. All that I state is only for the edification of the lost and deceived. The 100% apostate church has deceived everyone. The entire church teaches (sells) a 100% counterfeit (antichrist) christianity. It is all unbiblical, science fiction nonsense.
The truth is, there absolutely is no such thing as the devil/satan. Again, these words refer only to women and to all mankind that women have produced. Please take a very good look through the Bible and especially Genesis Ch. 1 and 2. You will find that there is nowhere in the Bible where we are told that God created a non human spirit being that is the devil/satan.
The 100% false manmade (churchmade) idea of there being a devil/satan has only come from the 100% apostate church. This idea does NOT come from the Bible as you WILL find out if you look.
When the people of the church are so absolutely Biblically illiterate that they don't even know who/what the devil/satan is, we can easily see how lost and deceived all the people of the church really are. Gods people are NOT lost, and they are NOT deceived!
Did God change you? Or are you just another totally blind, lost, and deceived person snared into the 100% apostate church and into its antichrist christianity? Do you understand that the entire 100% apostate church is filled with those who will say all the things you have said?
You're in a cult.
It’s not about a perceived ‘gift’, it’s about God’s calling.
Amen. The Church needs to have the right men in the correct offices . Women need to obey the Lord
do men need to obey the Lord?
Absolutely, men need to obey the Lord , just as women need too. I just assumed men needed to also.
Thank you for presenting a clear message from Scripture on this matter.
Please pray for me about narcissistic abuse I have been experiencing especially from one person in my life in particular. Thank you.
Dear Father, my prayer for @al-lv1no is for your covering protection from the narcissistic abuse being experienced. Lord Father, you see all and hear all, please provide safe refuge, peace of mind beyond human comprehension and engulf this person with your unfailing love, in the name of Jesus Christ.
Nice succinct presentation. The book “Biblical Eldership” by Alexander Strauch does a nice job of covering all the church offices. The one gap in the book in my opinion is the topic of “calling”. Which is a very important element as many turn this into a mystical experience leveraging “ Hearing the voice of God” apart from Scripture.
The best book I ever read on eldership
It’s interesting how God used George Mueller even though he started out as a drunken womanizer whose father sent him to divinity school to become a state ordained pastor that could support his father in his old age. More of a dad calling than one from God but God still used this man mightily after he attended a unsponsored, illegal, house church and gave his life to Jesus Christ. He and his wife had a policy that began with their first church that would be good for all of us to put in practice today, especially churches and church related ministries, that of making his needs known to no man but to God only through prayer. It was so effective that he was able to start orphanages that peaked at serving over 2000 children in England with Bible training, an education, training in a serviceable trade, housing, and clothing at a time when their countrymen regarded them as the next lowest thing to a snake’s belly without ever making his needs known to man. We have lost sight of how powerful prayer is in our society.
It’s interesting how God used George Mueller in the 1800’s even though he started out as a drunken womanizer whose father sent him to the state church divinity school to become a state ordained pastor that could support his father in his old age. More of a dad calling than one from God but God still used this man mightily after he attended a unsponsored, illegal, house church that led to his giving his life to Jesus Christ. He and his wife had a strict policy that began with their first church that would be good for all of us to put in practice today, especially churches and church related ministries, that of making his needs known to no man but to God only through prayer. It was so effective that he was able to start orphanages that peaked at serving over 2000 children in England with Bible training, a basic education, training in a serviceable trade, housing, and clothing during a time when their countrymen regarded them as the next lowest thing to a snake’s belly without ever making his needs known to any man. We have lost sight of how powerful prayer is to Jehovah-Jireh, our provider, in our society.
Another principle that has recently dawned on me. If one simply wants to believe and obey God without getting bogged down with human input. Maybe, rather than analyzing details of scripture to "figure it out," we could ask "what does God prescribe as the duties of a person?" For example, we should ask "what does God say in His Word about what a woman should be doing?" Rather than "is it OK for a woman to fill such or such a role?"
Ok, so Deborah was a Judge over Israel. Her husband was not.
...the judges of Israel, whom I commanded to shepherd My people...
In all places where I have walked with all Israel, have I spoken a word with any of the judges of Israel, whom I commanded to shepherd My people, saying, ‘Why have you not built Me a house of cedar?’
-excerpt 1 Chronicles 17 verse 6 NASB translation
Crystal clear. It's the exact same thing with the office of deacon. All Christians are called to have "diakonos" or the spirit of serving or ministry's, but the office of deacon in the church in 1 Timothy 3:12 clearly says let the deacons be the husbands of one wife. I love the emphatic clear pace and sincerity. Thank you for rightly dividing the truth.
Written by Paul. The qualifications he put forward bar him from being a deacon
or elder. So he gave himself the forbidden title/position of 'father'.
This was settled at about 1100 B.C. Judges 4 and 5, else
my free essay on Deborah.
I do not suffer a woman to teach...or have authority over a man...HOW CLEAR DO YOU WANT IT😅? That's crystal to me. Preaching is teaching however you rework it it's the truth. You really have to deceive yourself to believe otherwise. Teaching also comes with authority automatically, it's literally part of the word description. How can you teach without having authority? Who would truly listen? Also the fact that it's clearly stated, BECAUSE EVE WAS DECEIVED... women should show the utmost submission in a biblical church. The Bible also provides many ways woman SHOULD be. And leadership is not in those examples. We're so obsessed with being equal and socially relevant, we're giving up clearly stated direction for the entire church. We must repent and pray for true revival and not surface cultural Christianity. It's very dangerous to misinterpret the scriptures and it's leading many to a false gospel with false salvation and a false idea of the messiah Yeshua the LORD Jesus Christ. GOD will not be mocked. Play time is over and time is short. We must tell the truth.
💯 I wonder what God will do to the women pastors. Can they be considered saved if they are aware of the instruction and chose lawlessness?
Deborah was the Judge over Israel. Her husband was not.
A Judge was cleared to teach scripture when judging men.
@@Szpak-123 Exceptions are not the standard. Some women are indeed good teachers, but if they are put in the position of pastor/elder, it is setting a new precedent, that is against the order that God has ordained. That is how the whole problem got started back in Genesis 3. "Did God really say..... Yes He said it and He meant it, you will surely die. Nothing new under the sun, unless you are under the Son. We cannot disagree with what God said, for doing so is sin.
@@gordoncrawley5826
Since a woman could be a pastor in the Old Covenant, a woman
can be a pastor in the New Covenant. Simple really.
I suggest my free scripturally-based essay on Deborah.
Men and women are perfectly equal spiritually. She was a pastor, according to the scriptures. This is how the Judges are described in Chronicles, by God.
...the judges of Israel, whom I commanded to shepherd My people...
In all places where I have walked with all Israel, have I spoken a word with any of the judges of Israel, whom I commanded to shepherd My people, saying, ‘Why have you not built Me a house of cedar?’
-excerpt 1 Chronicles 17 verse 6 NASB translation
A woman could only be given the authority by God to execute a man for his sin, if women are spiritually equal to men. A Judge could judge homicide cases according to Deuteronomy. Therefore Deborah, as a Judge, could execute a man for his sin. A Judge's verdict could not be altered or appealed.
A Judge was REQUIRED in scripture to judge only the hardest of cases.
Refusal to accept a Judge's verdict on any matter,
resulted in execution, according to Deuteronomy.
A Judge was cleared to teach from scripture as he/she gave a verdict, according to Deuteronomy. Since in Judges 4, men went to Deborah to be judged, a woman could teach men, even in the Old Covenant in a public setting.
If your beliefs can't explain all this, they must be false.
Full read time: 10 minutes postable here
@@Szpak-123 In the Bible there are prescriptive and descriptive passages… Yes, Deborah was described as the Judge over Israel, but God has prescribed (ordered) the church through Paul or how the order of the church shall be here on Earth. Henceforth, we are to listen to God’s ordained order in the church.
Let’s all just take heed to God’s word and work together, and love one another🙏🏽 Forever and always.
Look at me straight face to face and tell me this man has joy in his eyes. How do the producers not see this?
Your comment is completely ignorant! Repent of your fake christianity!
Because they're all the same way.
Fantastic 👏 unfortunately a lot of churches are teaching, unfortunately, unbiblical theology.
Thank you for trying to bring clarity to a hotly disputed topic with a short teaching based on scripture. The NT church of the first century bears little resemblance to the way most modern-day churches are run. I think some things have become distorted and corrupted (probably a strategy of satan to destroy the church). I have followed some excellent teachings by (gifted) women teachers who clearly know the bible and have done their homework. At the same time, I used to attend a church run by a husband/wife pastoral team (senior and associate pastors). The husband could preach a good sermon but often his teachings were peppered with untruths. The wife pastor was a pulpit bully and some of her sermons were really toxic.
You, like EVERYONE else here have spoken in absolute unbiblical ignorance! All of you completely Biblically illiterate people only expose how the entire church is all 100% apostate. There are NO Christians in ANY church!
Bookmarking. Thank you.
The verses are not difficult. Men and women are hard hearted and refuse to accept them.
After spending a few years in the ministry of Bible translation, I realized the profound challenges with languages and that everything involves choices. Choices that are made by people from different backgrounds, bringing some bias to the table. That impacts even our translations. We also pick and choose what to enforce. You cite the passage that requires an elder to be the husband of one wife. Some choose to make that all about being male but few argue that an elder must be married, not single. We can also raise the question about who decides what gifts are bestowed. Is it not the Holy Spirit that does the gifting?
Taking those passages as literally requiring a male, would, as you say, also require marriage -- AND children (plural). The CEB and CEV translations are relevant here.
@@Norrin777Radd Agreed. Everyone chooses what to take literally or not, depends on one's agenda?
💯
Male headship is seen all through the bible from the very beginning to the very end. Man was created first and God gave him authority. Woman was made from man as a helper for man. She is not inferior to man, but God gave her a different role in life. The role of mother is to be highly honored as she alone can bring life into the world. She is the homemaker and sets the course of her children's lives. Men are to be the head both in the family and the church to keep the order of God consistent in human life. To offset the danger of the abuse of women, God gave the command to love them. The three persons of the trinity are deemed as male and so to the angels. Christ, the second Adam, will rule as King forever. Keeping the Creation Order of male headship is much more important than we may think, and it is God ordained and is evident in the scriptures. For example, transgressing the Creation Order is how we got to SSM, a serious abomination.
Deborah was a mother, FYI.
A woman could only be given the authority by God to execute a man for his sin, if women are spiritually equal to men. A Judge could judge homicide cases according to Deuteronomy. Therefore Deborah, as a Judge, could execute a man for his sin. A Judge's verdict could not be altered or appealed.
A Judge was REQUIRED in scripture to judge only the hardest of cases.
Refusal to accept a Judge's verdict on any matter,
resulted in execution, according to Deuteronomy.
An amendment from 1 Corinthians 15 verse 45 and 47. Christ is the LAST Adam and the SECOND Man. He ended the spiral of death from Adam by His death and brought about a new order of everlasting life by His resurrection. If any man be in Christ, he is a new creature 2 Cor 5v17.
It shows that we can have our theology tainted even by good hymnwriters such as John Henry Newman who wrote in "Praise to the holiest in the height" "a second Adam to the fight and to the rescue came"!
Amen
Excellent 🙏
EXCELLENT 🙏✝️
There is no "office" called pastor/teacher. That is an interpretive stretch without scriptural support. Elder/overseer is the office and they must have the ability to teach or they fail the test. Paul says to elders that they must shepherd the flock. Again, teaching and shepherding are the work -- not the office.
One who can teach is a teacher. One who can prophesy is a prophet. One who evangelizes is an Evangelist. One who shepherds is a teaching shepherd.
EXCELLENT!!!!!
What about the women traveling with Paul. Also was Paul married this begs more more questions.
I regard Paul as almost a false teacher. I've looked
and written about a number of his teachings.
@@Szpak-123 One must wonder if you are truly saved by the grace of God! If Paul is even ALMOST a false teacher, you are denying the truth of the Word of God about the Gospel as taught by Paul. Then the New Testament churches also have at best a shaky foundation since it is built upon the apostles and prophets, Paul being the key apostle in this regard.
@@danc1579
I've been a Christian a long time. I used to just accept everything
by Paul, but those days are long gone.
Top suggestions if any reader should wish a study:
Part 10 The most serious false teaching of Paul.
Part 6 Another serious false teaching of Paul
(This entire informal essay is too long to be pasted
up all at once.)
TABLE OF CONTENTS OF:
PAUL
HIS FALSE, CONTRADICTORY, AND CONFUSING TEACHINGS
-S. Szpak
INTRODUCTION
Part 1 PAUL'S CONVERSION STORY
Part 2 PAUL INSTRUCTS/ORDERS TIMOTHY TO BE CIRCUMCISED
Part 3 PAUL CONTRADICTS HIS OWN TEACHING ON TONGUES AND PROPHECY
Part 4 PAUL STATES IT IS ACCEPTABLE TO EAT FOOD SACRIFICED TO IDOLS
AS LONG AS NO ONE SEES YOU DOING SO
Part 5 PAUL SEEMS TO ALTER HIS BELIEFS AND WHATEVER ELSE IS
NECESSARY FOR THE "SAKE OF THE GOSPEL".
Part 6 PAUL TEACHES THAT A HUSBAND RULES OVER HIS WIFE
Part 7 PAUL'S SUPPORT FOR MARRIAGE IS WEAK
Part 8 PAUL WRITES OF HEARING DIVISIONS WITHIN THE CHURCH
AND HOW THIS WAS NOT PROPER AND SHOULD STOP
YET STATES THAT CHRISTAINS SHOULD FOLLOW PAUL
Part 9 PAUL WAS OK WITH THE UNSAVED PREACHING THE GOSPEL
Part 10 PAUL REFERS TO HIMSELF AS A SPIRITUAL FATHER
THE MOST SERIOUS FALSE TEACHING OF PAUL
Part 11 PAUL STATES THAT WOMEN SHOULD BE SILENT
Part 12 PAUL IS OPPOSED TO WOMEN BEING ELDERS.
THEREFORE HE IS OPPOSED TO WOMEN BEING
SHEPHERDS/PASTORS.
PART 13 PAUL'S FALSE BELIEF THAT THE RETURN OF JESUS WOULD TAKE
PLACE WITHIN A HUMAN LIFETIME RESULTS IN HIM TEACHING
AGAINST MARITAL SEX AND NORMAL EMOTIONS
PART 14 PAUL STATES THAT HE IS A PERFECT CHRISTIAN
Part 15 PAUL TEACHES THAT CHRISTIANITY IS HIERARCHICAL
CONCLUSION AND FINAL THOUGHTS
Paul was not married. He states that in his letters. Paul's instruction that only men can pastor and teach in the church doesn't mean that women have no place in ministry. Jesus had women follow him and provide for him out of their abundance. He never sent them out to teach or preach but they certainly did share what they had learned with people they spoke to but no from a position of authority as a Disciple/Apostle or Pastor/Teacher. Think of it like this, because a husband is the head of his house and he is the head of his wife, does that mean she has no place in the home, or no work to do, and that she cannot participate in any valuable way. Certainly not, she is very valuable. A good wife is a treasure and a crown on her husbands head. But when she wants to be the head, she usurps the authority of her husband and rebels against God's will.
@@Jehosaphat-xf4bx
Paul taught a hierarchical and false view of Christianity. Men over women. Even men over men.
The scriptures available to the Christians of the first century were
only those of the Old Testament. It was good enough for them. It
should be good enough for us. If one understands the authority of
a Judge over Israel (covered in my informal essay) one has to
explain what exactly changed when the New Covenant came to be.
Paul said Paul said, is not an explanation.
A Judge could be a man or woman.
A Judge, according to Deuteronomy, could teach scripture.
A Judge was the primary pastor/shepherd of God's people.
To say a woman can't be an elder in the smallest of Christian
churches is ALL Paul. Also an insult to all women, since women
were made in the image of God, as well as men.
Some observations:
-- Given the active debates about the proper translation of several words in 1 Tim. 2:11-12, especially "authenteo," it seems odd to view it as one of the "clear" passages.
-- Given that Scripture never uses the word "office" in regard to "pastor" or "elder" any other ministry, it seems odd to try to delineate a distinction on that basis. Certainly it does not occur in Eph. 4, which makes your emphasis on it there odd.
-- It seems odd and careless to interpret Eph. 4:10-11 without considering the "charis" and "gifts" terminology in v. 7-8 of the passage. Likewise, it seems odd and careless to interpret the passage in isolation from 1 Cor. 12-13 and Rom. 12, where similar words and concepts occur.
-- The idea that the listings in 1 Tim. 3 and Tit. 1 are to be universal rules rather than ad hoc guidelines is of course a hermeneutical presupposition. Even assuming that to be true, there is no justification to focus on the "maleness" as opposed to the equal "necessity" to be *married* AND to have *multiple* children. Finally, the proper translation of "mias guniakos andra" and of the various (and always ungendered) pronouns are debated; see CEB and CEV translations.
Ultimately, whatever the Bible "REALLY" teaches about women in the church, it is not at all clear that your view is correct.
Exactly. It seems like he is using really spurious arguments with a very poor knowledge of Greek, hermeneutics and the cultural context, especially how to interpret letters versus stories and commands.
Oh dear!
The early disciples' model for the congregations was what they knew: the synagogue. Men as elders and teachers was the norm. It coincided with the larger culture in the Roman world. (That is what is documented in the New Testament.)
But they also understood that the Spirit knew no distinction between Jew and Greek, men and women, slave and free. All were one in Christ.
Today, in lands where it is culturally acceptable, the evidence is that the Spirit is making use of women to teach the gospel. Both to women and to men.
And why not? Why would he not use half of his workforce?
You are taking "their is neither Jew nor Greek, Slave nor Free, Male nor Female" out of context. The same Paul that wrote this, also wrote that women should not teach in the church and should remain silent. I don't think Paul was mistaken in his understanding, or that he was teaching opposing views to different bodies.. We must look at the whole of scripture.
But in regards to the scripture you reference out of Galatians, it is in regards to inheritance. Directly before your quoted scripture Paul says "For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus." And directly after your stated scripture Paul says "and if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise."
So there is no more distinction based on the flesh as to who is the heirs of the promise given to Abraham and his seed, because we are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. But this doesn't go as far as to say that there is absolutely no difference between men and women in regards to calling and appointment to serve. You need to take into account authority given by God when considering appointment by Christ to serve in the Body. And a women is not to be in authority over a man. I used to think different but the Holy Spirit teaches us truth and through prayer and study I have come to change my mind and believe the truth. This doesn't cast woman off or demean them, that is the mistake people make, it is us simply following scripture.
@@Jehosaphat-xf4bx This is the eternal reality, that all are equal and one in Christ.
The other is the pragmatic choices made in the church within specific cultural contexts.
Those contexts are different today.
And the evidence around the world is that the Spirit is using women to get his work done.
@@stephenbailey9969 You mean to say that the same Spirit that taught Paul and by which Paul wrote his letters has changed his mind. I think not. God having placed women under the authority of a man is in no way a cultural context. God told Eve that she would experience pain in child birth and that her husband would rule over her. Was pain in child birth a cultural context. I jest a bit to prove a point. The cultural context today is for Men to be cowardly followers, drowning in sin, not leading their families and not taking responsibility, and for women to reject the authority that God has placed over them. The lack of Godly fathers in the home, massive divorce rates and remarriage and feminism in Christian homes is the issue. Was the Holy Spirit attempting to use women in positions of Authority for the last 6000 and just now finally succeeded. I think not.
@@stephenbailey9969 This scripture is not saying that either. It is about inheritance. Greeks, Slave, and women could not inherit the land. Through Christ though we are 'Sons of God.' Notice how he calls us all 'Sons'. We all as 'sons' are going to inherit the kingdom. Slaves didn't have a right to inheritance, Greeks didn't have a right to inheritance, woman didn't have a right to inheritance. You sound like you are quoting the American constitution when you say that 'all are equal.'
God said to Eve that she would have pain in Child birth and that her husband would rule over her. God put women under authority to men. It is in no way just a cultural context. what was the culture of the garden of Eden?
Paul wrote his letter by inspiration of the Holy Spirit and you say, the same Holy Spirit who was against women in authority over men has changed his mind and is now doing the opposite. And the same God who put women under authority of men is now doing just the opposite after 6000 years. Why didn't Jesus change it when He was on the earth. But you say it must have been God because, look it is happening. Not a great argument for believing and walking in the truth of scripture.
@@Jehosaphat-xf4bx We are not under the Law.
We are under grace.
That was the importance of Paul's statement, "There is neither Jew nor Greek, male nor female, slave nor free."
This is the eternal reality.
In this age of men, on the other hand, there are other rules that we live by here on earth, according to God's permissive will. The importance is to take the gospel to the people, no matter the cultural norms. For one day the eternal shall come in power and replace this age and its oppressions.
In some lands today, those norms have changed, and women are no longer seen as property. In those lands, denominations can make use of women to teach, and they do. The Spirit is rewarding their work.
Is the Holy Spirit inconsistent? No. He is of the eternal. But God has always delegated some decisions to men to deal with. Paul's instructions to his churches are practical matters within the context of his day. They do not deal with matters of sin or salvation. They are not Law for us.
Paul had Women that taught men in the church gathering. 1st Corinthians. Ch 14. read it when it says ALL have a teaching, etc. and yes Preaching.
I would simply say that we MUST follow Godly order! God-Man-Woman-children. We women are NOT to teach or hold any office over a man.
Deborah. Judges 4 and 5.
@Szpak-123 Deborah was a Judge. Not a pastor. Totally different situation. Same with Esther. She was a queen.
@@Ricksbookshelf
Full essay read time: 10 minutes free postable here
The Judge was the primary/senior pastor/shepherd
at that time period.
(In case the reader in unaware, the word pastor and the word
shepherd are the same word. I prefer shepherd, because it has
obvious meaning to the average person.)
Major modern English translations like the NASB use
the phrasing ...whom I commanded to shepherd My people...
In all places where I have walked with all Israel, have I spoken a word with any of the judges of Israel, whom I commanded to shepherd My people, saying, ‘Why have you not built Me a house of cedar?’
-excerpt 1 Chronicles 17 verse 6 NASB translation
Some believe that pastor (or shepherd), is a position that
was created in the New Covenant. This is not true. In the Old Testament
shepherds are mentioned multiple times. Often in a negative way.
“My people have become lost sheep;
Their shepherds have led them astray.
-excerpt Jeremiah 50
For an entire chapter on worthless shepherds, the reader may
check out Ezekiel 34.
When the shepherd over Israel died, the people went back into sin. That is because the Judge was the most important spiritual leader of this time period.
But it came about, when the judge died, that they would turn back and act more corruptly than their fathers, in following other gods to serve them and bow down to them; they did not abandon their practices or their obstinate ways.
-excerpt Judges 2
Do not wear a crew cut white t-shirt under a polo. Just go straight polo or v-neck so the t-shirt doesn’t show. Try it. The neck lines will look so much better.
We need to read scripture and pay attention to the Jewish thought of the day, looking at the audience and what problems Paul was addressing.
Reading/interpreting scripture from a western mindset gives a wrong picture.
You have spoken in absolute unbiblical ignorance! Repent of your fake christianity!
Excellent teaching. I noticed that you mentioned head covering for Christian women and then did not discuss it. Everybody is avoiding the elephant in the room!
When I was a pastor in a conservative church our denomination taught that only THAT part of the verse was cultural. A consistent interpretation would require women to wear a head covering. Also I see a lot internet Christians quote from Deuteronomy to smite the sinner. So I leave you this reminder for women in the church
Deuteronomy 25 :11 “When men fight with one another and the wife of the one draws near to rescue her husband from the hand of him who is beating him and puts out her hand and seizes him by the private parts, 12 then you shall cut off her hand. Your eye shall have no pity. ESV
There seem to be two different types of headcoverings discussed in that passage- long hair which is her everyday covering and an additional fabric covering for when she prays or prophesies in the church.
It seems the purpose of the head covering was a ststement- not a statement to angels, but to messengers (same word) or visitors to the church who might get the wrong impression and think it was ok for a woman to be in a teaching or leadership position. I believe the fabric covering makes the statement that the woman praying or prophesying in a public church gathering is an out-of-the-ordinary event and that she is still under male authority and not in a leadership position.
he was giving examples of things difficult to understand in Scripture, but the point of the video was specifically for women's role in the Church.
@@dianeschrimsher9984 Thank you! That the word is simply “messengers” is rarely (if ever) a part of the discussion on head covering, though it’s a key component to understanding the text. Defining what it means to prophesy, as the command for her to cover is connected to her prophesying, is probably the most important to understanding whether women are required to cover today and where people will differ on the subject.
I'm praying for the Lord to call his church to equal weights in handling the Scripture! The way that text has been dismissed as a cultural issue is appalling in light of all the other instructions to the New Testament church that people can clearly see have no basis in culture. Likewise the apostle did not base his analysis in 1 Cor 11 in culture but in the creation order and male headship. I guess it's not so important to the male pastors so they don't hold it as firmly as women pastoring but it will be important to the women in discipleship if they are not encouraged to hold Scripture authoratitively.
Galations 3:28. As if these difficult passages could not be read and understood by all. These are man made constructs, not Gods. Render unto ceasar...
The Bible clearly says that Paul was under the direct authority of Jesus to teach and correct. His life was specifically chosen to be a direct piece in the word of God. Jesus is the word of God.
Since Paul is under direct authority, his teaching comes directly from Jesus. This means if Paul didn't permit something in the church, then Jesus doesn't permit it either. The word of God is not divided. Jesus is not divided. There should be no division of this in the church either.
We don't dismiss the book of Revelations because Jesus didn't physically write it. We don't cast off the book as simply John's personal opinions. No, we know this is the Holy Spirit of Christ working and revealing these things to John for us. We can be sure it comes from Jesus, not John's "feelings". So then, why would we ever do this to Paul's teachings.
you wrote:
Since Paul is under direct authority, his teaching comes directly from Jesus.
Paul's teachings on multiple subjects are all over the place.
Part 3
PAUL CONTRADICTS HIS OWN TEACHING ON TONGUES AND PROPHECY
So then, tongues are for a sign, ..to unbelievers;
...and all the people speak in tongues, and ...unbelievers enter, will they not say that you are insane?
...but prophecy is not for unbelievers, but for those who believe.
But if all prophesy, and an unbeliever ...enters...so he will fall on his face and worship God...
In the Law it is written: “By men of strange tongues and by the lips of strangers I will speak to this people, and even so they will not listen to Me,” says the Lord. So then, tongues are for a sign, not to those who believe but to unbelievers; but prophecy is not for unbelievers, but for those who believe. Therefore if the whole church gathers together and all the people speak in tongues, and outsiders or unbelievers enter, will they not say that you are insane? But if all prophesy, and an unbeliever or an outsider enters, he is convicted by all, he is called to account by all; the secrets of his heart are disclosed; and so he will fall on his face and worship God, declaring that God is certainly among you.
-excerpt 1 Corinthians 14 NASB
Paul states that "prophecy is not for unbelievers" but then states that
prophesying will cause an unbeliever to "fall on his face and worship God".
@Szpak-123 prophesy is not for unbelivers. Paul means exactly that. Unbelivers will NOT prophesy. Meaning it will not be a true prophesy from the Holy Spirit. This does not mean that a true prophesy from a believer will not cause an unbeliver to fall on his face in astonishment. So pauls says this as well.
Have you not read the scriptures that every knee will fall when they see Jesus. Even the unbeliever will fall to their knees.
@@jessebaker9011
So then, tongues are for a sign, ..to unbelievers;
...and all the people speak in tongues, and ...unbelievers enter, will they not say that you are insane?
As I wrote:
Paul's teachings on multiple subjects are all over the place.
This example above is just one (Part 3). I have several more.
At least two are serious false teachings.
you wrote:
Since Paul is under direct authority, his teaching comes directly from Jesus.
Every man Jesus chose, whether Judas, Peter, Thomas, or myself
is flawed. Flawed men don't become perfect teachers. Only Jesus
is a perfect teacher.
Paul was heavily influenced by the culture of his day. Jesus
taught against a hierarchical view of what would soon be known
as the Way (now called Christianity).
But I confess this to you, that in accordance with the Way, which they call a sect, I do serve the God of our fathers,...
-excerpt Acts 24
Paul taught that in Christianity men were over women.
Even that men were over men.
This entire subject regarding 'women in ministry' was settled at
about 1100 B.C The Judge was the primary pastor/shepherd
of God's people at that time period.
Deborah. Judges 4 and 5, else my free informal postable
essay on her. Read time: 10 minutes
And what of "Deacon"?
The same principle for pastor applies to deacons.
Phoebe was clearly a deacon, Rom. 16:1 and the qualifications of female deacons are listed in I Tim. 3:11.
Women can’t be decons, same principle applies.
@@warrenroby6907 Yes Strong's G 1249 male / female deacons both exist.
@Your_Uncle_is_watching
Blessed are those who have been persecuted for the sake of righteousness,
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. “Blessed are you when people insult you
and persecute you, and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of Me.
Rejoice and be glad, for your reward in heaven is great; for in this same way
they persecuted the prophets who were before you.
-excerpt Matthew 5
-words of Jesus
Indeed, all who want to live in a godly way in Christ Jesus will be persecuted.
-excerpt 2 Timothy 3
I then thought it the more needful to get at the
facts behind their statements. Therefore I placed two
women, called “deaconesses,” under torture, but I
found only a debased superstition carried to great
lengths, so I postponed my examination, and
immediately consulted you.
-excerpt Pliny the Younger’s Letter to Emperor Trajan Regarding the Christians
about 111 A.D.
Amen 🙏🏽
A methodological comment..
There is no principle to interpret unclear passages in the light of more clear passages IF it involves ignoring the principle of Authors intent. We must assume the authors of scripture knew how to effectively communicate to their own audiences. We need be cautious of interpreting one authors meaning by another's .. the scriptures are not a reference book or flat meanings . They all have a specific context. Comparing scripture with scripture is a often abused hermeneutic..
Good grief man, don’t you ever believe in taking scripture in a cultural context rather than thinking that Paul was just sitting in an office writing theology? You say you shouldn’t build doctrine on difficult passages, yet you do without taking into account of the passages like Romans 16 when Paul tells us some of his fellow workers, i.e. ministers are women. Now I have known several women who have gone into places, and pastored churches where men have failed and raised up a great church. Souls have been saved a new buildings have been built and a missionary outreach established. Yet you are saying they shouldn’t of done it because they are out of the will of God? And don’t get me going on the many women who go to the mission field where men don’t go. They don’t sit in a chair pontificating on TH-cam, they just get on with the job.
You have only exposed your completely Biblically illiterate, spiritually dead, blind, lost, unsaved, and deceived condition. You know nothing of the truth of the Bible and remain 100% outside of the kingdom of God. You are accursed of God, and are Gods enemy. Repent!
So you have known women who walk contrary to scripture and have succeeded in winning souls. Thus we should follow the result, instead of scripture. Could they have won the same souls outside of the church setting? Women can witness, right?, or can they only do it from the pulpit. I am not a pastor, can I win souls, should I share my faith with my work mates, my family, my friends, my neighbors. Or do I need to take a position that Christ hasn't called me to, to be able to accomplish something. Does God cast aside obedience to scripture because something good is coming out of it?
@@Jehosaphat-xf4bx the problem is that they only walk contrary to your misreading of scripture. Look at Romans 16 and Paul names fellow ministers who are women! Of course, I do realise that the Almighty has to walk in a straight jacket of man-ordained dogma. The fact is that where there are willing hearts God does what He likes - ‘In the Messiah there is neither male nor female…’
God will use anymore he chooses 😂
I think it is a mistake to ground the argument against women's ordination in the two office argument, since it is not so obvious that the three and four office views are false, but women would still be disqualified anyway.
If every pastor is an elder but not every elder is a pastor, and if all elders must be male, then a woman may serve neither as elder nor pastor.
The Judges were pastors/shepherds. So, Deborah.
@@Szpak-123 Buds you don't even believe scripture to be true, so how could we expect that your understanding of Deborah as a judges would be accurate.
@@Jehosaphat-xf4bx
(N.N. personal note)
I wrote an informal free postable essay on Deborah. I go to
multiple Old Testament books to explain her story AND what
a Judge was. There is little opinion in the essay. There is
much scripture. Old Testament scripture, all the people of the
first century had to go by.
@@Szpak-123 I read the Story of Deborah this morning. You reject potions of the bible as being true, so how can you stand on any part of it? How many Deborah's do you see? One. How many Men do you see in these positions. All of them except the one time of Deborah. Prophetess have always been around. But a woman being a judge, well that is different. How many women priests do you see, how many women served in the temple or in any of the Levitical duties before God. How many women did Jesus send out when he sent the 12 and the 70. How many women were appointed by God to early Church positions of Authority. If you want to use any of the account of Deborah to support woman ministry then lets weigh it apples for apples. God will use one woman every 3000-4000 years to lead in a position of authority within a God called congregation, is that fair. I just turned my TV on and seen the one woman pastor, so I guess the rest are not called. I still have to work to feed myself and my family, why?
@@Jehosaphat-xf4bx
(N.N. personal note)
Sorry for the delay. I'm not getting notifications from this thread.
you wrote:
I read the Story of Deborah this morning.
That's a start, but Judges 4 and 5 is only the beginning.
My informal essay goes to multiple Old Testament books.
Read time: 10 minutes postable here
you wrote:
How many women priests do you see...
In the Old Covenant, now gone never to come back, the priests
had to have a certain genetic code. They had to be from the line
of Levi and male. Also perfect physically. If a priest broke his foot
and it didn't heal properly he was no longer to be a priest. His heart
toward God was irrelevant, as his body was permanently damaged.
The Old Covenant has passed away, so the new priesthood is no longer
based on genetic code plus a perfect body. It isn't based on birthright.
So it isn't based on the male gender. If it was still based on the male
gender, then it would still have to be based on birthright.
And coming to Him as to a living stone which has been rejected by people, but is choice and precious in the sight of God, you also, as living stones, are being built up as a spiritual house for a holy priesthood, to offer spiritual sacrifices that are acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.
But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for God’s own possession, so that you may proclaim the excellencies of Him who has called you out of darkness into His marvelous light; for you once were not a people, but now you are the people of God; you had not received mercy, but now you have received mercy.
-excerpts 1 Peter 2
It's a very sad thing, because the church has decided it will follow the standards of the world more than keep and obey the commands of God and his words ,the church and it's leaders would rather try to defend rather than comply with the authoritative instructions we are supposed to be be following. Satan has used his influence over the church and that's why we are in the position but we can change that by getting back to what the word teaches us and stand firm on that. Martin Luther was one man ,but God used him to cause the reformation that brought about change and freedom for people, all because he stood by his conviction on the basis of scripture although many died for the defiance ,today we are free to worship God without any big shots over the church, It's God's church, God's creation, He is in charge and to him we must give praise and glory not to any man no matter who he is or how rich Powerful and popular he is .
What you, and everyone else snared into the 100% apostate church have failed to understand is, the entire church 100% of it, is apostate and has been from the very beginning. There are NO Christians in any church, only the spiritually dead, blind, lost, unsaved, and the completely deceived. Repent!
A question I ask which often creates discomfort in men is, who knows the heart of the Father better or more, the son or the daughter? This is a rhetorical question with only one obvious answer. A question if one answers honestly will have to come to the obvious and definitive answer concerning mans calling and function in the church and his duty to exercise righteous authority over the women in the body. If one just examines the fruit that comes from women pastors, you will find that most, if not all women pastors who govern a church govern with a compassion that is always soft and even protective of those in sin, often perceiving them as marginalized people or victims who need to be protected. The need to protect from the bullies, from those who are orthodox, becomes a women’s first instinct, being compelled by her motherly compassion to protect the perceived victim and not by the Holy Spirit.
We know that's what you think and what you think is the solution to problems - but what does God say? Could what He says about His solution be good and sufficient for the church and the care of the flock/His people?
@@daveyo8221 I am not sure what you are arguing, for women pastors or against. You say, “We know that’s what you think and what you think is the solution to problems”. Who is we? Refute what “I think”. I will ask you, who knows the heart of the Father better, the Son or the daughter? There is only one right answer. Can you or will you answer it?
@robertknox7050 - the qualification for Elders / Pastors outlined in the Bible is not "who knows the heart of the Father better." So what are the qualifications - do you know where these are found in the Bible?
I understand you saying that you *think* the solution for victimised people is women pastors - could it be that the qualifications for a Pastor/Elder from Scripture is God's design, good, and protects women, children (and men)?
@robertknox7050 - your question about knowing the heart of the Father is not the right question: "What has God said" IS the RIGHT question. The OT and NT is littered with examples of Israel / God's people being rebuked for their so-called logical deducing of how they should worship and/or lead his people, rather than obeying what He clearly said to them.
@robertknox7050 unless... did I understand you incorrectly, and you are perhaps NOT for women pastors and were wanting to show that the fruit from women Pastors is negative?
Even so, I would still ask the better question "what has God said" which is clearer and less subjective about what is good and bad fruit from a humanistic sense, and indeed God's Word says clearly what good and bad fruit actually is, and His design for men and women.
Have you ever considered that you aren’t a Christian at all? It seems more like you are teaching a “Paul Cult” theology and not the teachings of Jesus.
Paul said that he got revelation directly from Jesus Christ so his teachings are authoritative. If that is not true, then his Gospel is suspect, and if the Gospel is the power unto salvation (Romans 1:16) then we all have a defective faith, for how can we know what is truth and what is not in the scriptures? It is all or it is nothing at all, just another man made religion. Either you believe it or you don't.
So the words of Jesus are inadequate? So Paul received an Anointing greater than the cleaning lady? I think NOT! The words of Moses were God’s words and your predecessors the Pharisees, Scribes, and Sadducees perverted them just like you do the words of Paul. They tore apart Judaism the way this guy is tearing apart the Church of Jesus by teaching their own stupidity and not the words of Jesus. G3 is the modern pharisaical movement and Jesus decried woe unto the first batch.
The problem wasn’t Moses then, and its not Paul now, the problem is the modern reformed Pharisee.
You are confusing preaching with sermons. Preaching can be done by any believer, it’s proclaiming good news.
Patriarchal arrogance renames preaching as witnessing.
European biblical misunderstanding is a major quirk in the worldwide body of Christ.
We don't need this video. The bible makes it clear and defines the women's role in the church.
We do need this video because women's role in the Church is no longer clear
@@HearGodsWordTo those who don’t study or who don’t understand the Bible
Many new believers haven't yet had the opportunity to read through the entire Bible yet, and certainly not study its context. Discernment videos will always be not only necessary, but also a benefit to those who may be new in the faith, and also those who may be weak due to weak leadership. Praise God and thank him for your ability to understand without it. But I wouldn't discourage the making of the video for those who don't. It may cause them to open that Bible and take a deeper look to see if what he says is true.
Personally, you may not. However, there are many out there still struggling with this. Videos like this help them see what Scripture clearly teaches.
@@briannehill7583
Paul never walked with Jesus. Paul taught a hierarchical
and false view of Christianity. Men over women. Men over men.
I've looked and written informally on this. Once you see it,
you can't un-see it.
Regardless, there still is Deborah. The Christians of the first
century that knew her story AND the authority of a Judge over
Israel knew this entire 'women in ministry' matter was settled
with her centuries earlier.
The scriptures of the Old Testament was all that they had to
go by. It was good enough for them. It should be good
enough for us.
This video was good, bad and confusing. That’s three different words to mean the video is sad. Be my friend. Come believe in Jesus! 🤪❤️😇
Very good. It's a pity you're a Calvinist though!
I would argue that the doctrine of Calvinism is 💯 Biblical. Its NOT John Calvin's doctrine, its Biblical. Those who speak against Calvinism, dont truly understand it. Theyve only heard garbage lies taught from someone who is Biblically ignorant.
@@SolusChristus76 I think your claim non Calvinists have never understood doesn't withstand scrutiny. I left it behind by reading the bible more carefully and not making it conform to an external interpretative grid.
@@SolusChristus76 Isn't there different forms of Calvinism that disagree with each other? Are they all 100% correct then?
@ there are different forms yes, but only slightly
@@SolusChristus76 I think your claim non Calvinists have never understood won't withstand scrutiny. There are those of us who left it behind by _reading the bible more carefully_ and not making it conform to an external interpretative grid set out in confessions and systematic theology.
We need a Pentecostal tongue talking holy rolling fire baptized Holy Ghost revival in the United States today we need a second azusa street revival now 🔥🔥⛪🔥🔥
G3, there's no Biblical restrictions on women teaching in Church. But that aside, you really need to get your facts right about the Biblical God and His teachings on salvation and other teachings that you oppose.
1 Timothy 2 v 12-14
@louisekord9790 1 Tim 12--14 doesn't stop a woman teaching in church. It's talking about the wife not taking authority over her husband.
Need to get rid of Calvinism.
Need to get a hold of Calvinism. I did and after I really understood the teaching I grew closer to this great God of Creation.
@gordoncrawley5826 You're on the wrong track wasting your time with unbibical calvinist evil doctrines.
Translation- “need to get rid of God’s word.”
@@Andy-m8b ,...What the spiritually dead and blind call "Calvinism" is the truth, the gospel, and the Christianity of the Bible. The reason you fail to understand the truth of the Bible and how "Calvinism" is in fact 100% correct Biblical doctrine is because you are accursed of God and are Gods enemy.
All those who are against the truth, the gospel, and the Christianity of the Bible that they refer to as "Calvinism" are vessels of wrath, and brute beasts made only to be destroyed,......
2 Peter 2:12
"But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;"
Jude 1:10
"But these speak evil of those things which they know not: but what they know naturally, as brute beasts, in those things they corrupt themselves."
Romans 9:22
"What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:"
your KJV - which God hates - is so corrupt that you just as well could 'explain' that [non-theme] with a toaster manual .
you became the Lord's counselor and advised him to hate the KJV? When did that happen?