my art school teacher used to say: without all those people using film, making it a profitable industry, there would be no film for us. so let's hope many many people keep that industry alive. long live the hype, long live film.
Bravo! I spent my whole life working as a product photographer and pro photolab printer/processor. I am now 70, and listening to you made me smile. You hit the nail on the head with your discussion, so much ill informed opinions in photography today, so much nonsense. I now retired and have a nice big studio and darkroom, and my pleasure in life is teaching people to develop and print, from beginner to expert, and by expert I mean having the experience to understand how to get the most out of a negative. I have some younger clients who still have me do their portfolio prints, which is gratifying. Film is still relevant in modern photography, and many people shoot film and digitise for editing, which works well and gives a good result. We were shooting 10x8 ektachrome for high end automotive shoots way into the digital era because it made the cars look more desirable. I have subscribed, and look forward to viewing more of your work.
Wow, 8x10 auto. Legendary. I used to love to talk to the auto art directors who would go on location all over the world. Talking about sunrise in Morocco vs Spain, etc. Teaching is a gift. Glad to hear.
What a genius move of TH-cam to drop me this video after I watched the trillionth video about a youtuber with a beard talking about his new "these ones are getting harder to find" rare medium format camera and showing one of the most mediocre images ever. I was thinking like "Am I the only asshole in the room to see that TH-cam is full of this clones of hipsters sitting at their clean minimalistic 'Ow I better put that book in the background so they see" desk with the EXACT same lightning on their face and background, talking about cameras and not showing any above average images that would not even upstage your usual iPhone photo or even images at all?" Yes, I needed to get that of my chest. I can breath again. Thanks to you.
Well, they are catering to an audience and building following. That is what they know. The photography part takes too much time, typically, for anyone these days to really invest, especially those on YT. You simply can't produce good work a fast rate.
@@DANIELMILNOR505 I totally get that. And I absorb the (limited) tech info I occasionally get out of them. But it makes me giggle inside. Followers praising their images through the roof. Or fellow vloggers dropping by for a quick "You scratched my back, now I'll scratch your back" disguised as a genuine comment. It's gets bloated, styled and pretend. Which made your video such a breath (or storm) of fresh air. Can't wait for episode 002. Don't hold back.
I thoroughly loved this! You broke down the film v. digital debate to the true facts, with a unique and informed perspective as a pro in the industry for years. As an amateur/enthusiast photographer, I have been shooting film 90% of the time for the past few years, because 1) I love the end result (mostly a bnw shooter), and 2) I thoroughly enjoy the process. I love using all manual film cameras that I've bought off eBay for less than $100 that are often smaller, lighter, and easier to use compared to their digital counterpart, not to mention extremely less expensive. Taking my time, manually adjusting the dials to get a "right," or wrong exposure is so much more rewarding then auto everything because I feel like I'm actually making something, even if it comes out like trash. I took the time to learn the craft, something I will keep learning my entire life. Likewise, self-developing my negatives truly makes me feel like I'm contributing to the whole process from start to finish. I'm not a pro, I don't have clients to serve so I have no concerns about "sharpness" or the perceived costs of film, it's purely for my own joy. As someone in their early 30s, while I grew up with film end product, I didn't appreciate film cameras in their day, other than polaroids, in a sense I'm "revisiting" film, and I love it.
Just subscribed to your channel because of the blunt way you spoke about this. I am not a photographer, not even amateur level. I am just a family guy interested in learning about photography with no filters or ideology.
Wow! This is amazing information! Finally, a authentic, honest and transparent voice on Photography. A no B.S. guy. How refreshing. We've had our differences, but I have a tremendous amount of respect for Daniel.
Making me rethink my channel with that little talk. Haha refreshing take on the TH-cam world. I’m guilty of it for sure and I’m fresh enough where I can fix my ways before I’m lost forever. Looking forward to the next one of these!
This is exactly what I needed to hear. I've been caught in this Film-TH-cam-fueled rush to buy tons of different film cameras mostly motivated by mediocre photographers who happen to have high subscribers. But lately I've been sticking to one body and one lens it's allowed me to focus on what this is all supposed to be about, the images.
@@DANIELMILNOR505 No thank you. There are not many sources of actual photography knowledge on YT, it all gear reviews, affiliate links, and SquareSpace. Refreshing to hear someone just talk about the work.
I’m so glad a stumbled on this video. I’m now a subscriber. Please keep making content about film and film photography because it’s finally nice to listen and learn from someone who has actual experience and knowledge from years in the industry. Thank you!
I got alot out of this one Dan! Love the long rants.. packed with tips and truths! I've been shooting nothing but film for 2 yrs and sold my digital gear off. It was the best creative choice I have made for the work I like to make. I I especially found the 'box speed' info interesting. Look forward to the next one.
@@adamcook6396 Wow, this was 3 years ago! Really enjoyed the photos I took. But my camera gave big issues with my next two rolls and since I have not done anything since. A good reminder though. Either look to service my camera or check again for other options.
I felt like I was back in 1991 listening to my photography mentor. This is a refreshing video to find in the TH-cam photography ecosphere. Please keep making this kind of video!
Great Video as always Dan. I bought my first film camera 8 years ago to go with some Canon FD lenses I was using on mirrorless at the time. Figured why not have the option as I have the lenses? Messed up my first roll as I had no real knowledge. Got a second roll successfully shot, but put film aside for a while. Then after learning more on digital, I went back to try film about 5 years ago as an experiment, had a bit of fun but only shot a couple of rolls here and there. When I realized how easy it was, now that I knew more about exposure and photography, I've been shooting film exclusively in my own time for the last 3 and a half years. I've now shot about 110 rolls of film in many formats with a handful of cameras. I've narrowed down my preferred films to Ilford Delta and Kodak Ultramax and I mostly shoot just one camera and one lens (Canon P Rangefinder and a 35mm lens) on a daily basis. And I've been developing black and white for 2 years now. I've learnt a hell of a lot from my mistakes, but I'm still learning and having fun. Hopefully will put together a blurb zine soon. Looking forward to your next video!
Way to go. I would use WAY more film if I was spending my time working on my own projects but have very little time for that these days. And logistics are challenging. Zine is a good move.
Would be interested if you made another video around the idea of not shooting your film at box speed or if you could point us in a direction for some resources around this that would be very helpful
I wish I knew of a good resource. There is so much testing required with film if you want to find the nuance that allows you to get what you are after. In school I was shooting at box speed. When I started assisting my mind was blown by the range of what I saw.
@@DANIELMILNOR505 that makes sense. I'll keep testing stuff out and see what I can get. I really appreciate the content. It's all been very thought provoking as I continue my photography journey
Excellent rant. I'm not a photographer, but I repaired cameras for 25 years and met a lot of camera owners across the spectrum. The conclusion I came to was that amateur photographers cared mostly about the equipment, while the pro photographer cared mostly about the image. All that mattered was the image. And selling it, presumably.
I was just yesterday explaining to an older photographer I've had the fortune to assist and learn from, that I, as a kid (well, I'm 30) coming up with digital in this age, had interesting opportunities while I also missed out on some important things. I learned taking photos firing 2000 rounds on AV, then sifting through the photos in Lightroom to see if any of them turned out, celebrating myself when I found a decent photo. While that's a great way to develop a distinguishing eye for what looks good and what doesn't, it's not really image-making. I've felt happy to rediscover photography through film and learn a bunch of stuff that I wasn't really learning with digital. It's like you say, the charm is in the limitation. Thanks for a really entertaining and informative video, looking forward to more.
I did the same with digital. When it arrived it came with overshooting at epic levels. Good photographers have tappered off to some degree but you still see people coming back with 10,000's of images and think "why?"
Thanks! This was probably the most helpful film video I've encountered. I got into photography in high school and college, switched to film after dropping out of journalism school because I wasn't using my DSLR as much, and then picked the hobby back up 8 years later after losing bike racing as a hobby. It's been a weird world to get back into as film got back into style unbeknownst to me. There's definitely a lot of videos I've encountered on here that seem focused on chasing Instagram likes.
IG and the rest of social are nothing but pure poison in my mind. Designed to addict, designed to exploit human vulnerability, designed to destroy free will, designed to manipulate and yet pretty much every single photographer I know makes excuse after excuse for why they continue to use the platforms. WE are the problem. Yet another reason why I have little interest in the photography world.
Dan, I've been following your channel for a while but for whatever reason, this video passed me by but showed up at the right time. Like you, I shoot Fujifilm digitally and film from time-to-time for personal artistic work. I've been having this conversation, not to the detail you did in this video, with some fellow photographers who started with digital, got interested in film but know nothing about film other than what they've learned on TH-cam. I sent this video to all of them today. Thanks for your insight and the "films" you load on TH-cam sir.
thanks Dan, been waiting to hear your talk on this for a while ....great knowledge and thoughts it was fascinating to me .to listen you .. ... some food thought for sure ...
I feel like I get so much more from Dan’s interviews and films than I do from other photography channels that are so hyper-focused on gear and gear reviews. Gear reviews have their place but you can only watch so many reviews of a $5,000 camera you don’t ever plan to buy. None of that stuff inspires action. They’re done by TH-cam vloggers for other TH-cam vloggers. It’s these videos that inspire me to get moving on my projects, take them seriously, and go shoot another roll.
Hope you will have more episodes. I being a film shooter, not professional but I do for fun. But I never put my film images in instagram or online. I print it, put it in a album enjoy them with myself and my friends.
Great plan! I love photobooks but I also love the old school albums. In fact, we had friends over last night, friends we traveled with in 1998, and within seconds we had the album out looking at the images.
This is pure inspiration. Thanks! I am an old man (well, 45) getting into photography. Just bought myself a Fujifilm X-T4, not to have any gear excused. If my photos are poor, I cannot blame the gear, only myself. I will try to implement your ideas to digital, e.g. sticking to one film simulation at a specific ISO. I think that is bound to be a wise limitation. Keep rocking!
It goes against what the photo forums and reviewers say, but you’ll get the best colours, tonality and noise if you use the lowest possible ISO and try to get the exposure right in camera (as much as the highlight latitude allows you to)
@@DANIELMILNOR505 Hah, I'm 32! Old enough to shoot film on vacations as a kid, young enough to rediscover it as an adult. I know a lot of people obsessing over gear & fetishizing film without a real project in mind.
One of your most interesting video. Been shooting film for about three years, and you are right you mentioned stuff no-one mentions. Please do more film videos, on anything, I don’t care.
As a millennial who got roped into film with the hipster/nostalgic youtubers, this was a fascinating listen and I can't wait to hear more from a legitimate professional. I myself have really paired down my fascination on gear and am currently committed to exclusively shooting with the 40mm lens I have on my Leica M4-2. Improvement is coming slowly but I believe my ability to compose an image will better for it in the long run
Thank you Daniel, you hit the nail on the head! Great memories, too. Do you remember a small bottle product known as "Push 8000"? We used to add that to Microdol X 1:4, chemistry around 100f, and processed for 32 minutes for our 35mm Tri-X or HP-5 when i was a freelancer with the Miami Herald back in the late 1970's. Needed to do this when shooting professional football or soccer at the night games! I vaguely remember you showing the digital Kodak cameras to some shooters in Denver back when I was with Reed Photo Imaging, but most of my dealings were with Tom Hissong, our sales guy from Kodak. I've often said we had shot ourselves in the foot by going digital, as we could no longer drop off the film and grab a cup of coffee or lunch, and then come back check the clip tests to see if we needed a little more "oomph". Oh, and I still remember all of my notch codes... That being said, it almost feels like cheating when I grab one of my Olympus digital cameras (and this goes with just about any modern digital camera) and just have fun in composing & shooting. All the best, sir!
Holy crap. I've never heard of that but when you mention high school football all I can think about is the paper having a 300mm F/2 and TMZ for JUST his purpose. It was the only time anyone used that lens. Olympus RIP. What a bummer. The Microdol reference....so good.
Saw this back in late 90’s while I was using 810 Polaroid and 120 b&w & positive stock. Have now moved to digital and like the poster mentioned use it as I have any camera - making sure it’s in the can .. with my past film photography it was not always 100% guaranteed to have the image but as long as the kit was in working order the photograph was there after processing. Now digital allows for checking if you’re unsure but I don’t feel comfortable with the idea of is it there is it not. Just a way of thinking over a very long time in a varied career and life. Digital or film or wet plates whichever you feel is suitable for your practice, art or hobby.
fantastic Daniel, i have been itching to get back to film photography, the only thing holding me back is the cost of processing.I may look into learning the basics of black and white processing as i mainly shoot black and white with my nikon d3 and 50mm lens, i think you put your arguments over very well and thank you ,very imformative, best wishes and be safe. Jeff
The best I took away from this is "It just doesn't matter". I am keen on film and digital having started photography in 1975 reasonably seriously. All the things you say about film are true but I am just happy to see people embracing photography whether it's film,digital, iphone,pinhole,holga,polaroid etc.. In reality the best negatives are arguably the old glass plate ones.The detail in those pics is amazing.That would slow us down a bit.Almost to meditation speed.Thanks for creating content. It does stimulate thinking.
@@DANIELMILNOR505 thanks Daniel. I particularly am a big fan of Darius and Tabitha Kinsey. I have a big coffee table book of their work which is amazing.I think I will do a book review on it soon.The technology they used was mainly glass plates with massive cameras and tripods.
I’m new to photography been a about a year now. Bought a sony a6000 then got hooked. So down the rabbit hole of photography ordering books buying every documentary i could get my hands on. Even pulled up old courses and class lessons i could find on google. With that being said i bought 3 35mm film cameras just got a rangefinder. I bought them for learning experience in the sense you got to know your roots. I do enjoy shooting the film portra 400 for me . But lol the hipster film culture is to insane for me all them flannels and beanies and deep Confucius quotes..love the video subbed , it will be good ganing some knowledge from you .
No Confucius quotes from me. And it's too hot for a beanie. And I have no tattoos and no drone so no chance I'm gonna fit in that crowd. I do have a van however...
One of the best nostalgia trips I'll go on this year... Twenty years since I shot film daily (on a newspaper), and now Mr Milnor tells me why Tmax3200 was rubbish shooting dimly lit football night games in Northern England. I believed the box...& got thin negs. Y'see, always learning. Excellent video Mr M.
Kodak DCS... wow! When I worked for The Palm Beach Post we had an original model Kodak DCS with the Data Storage Unit. It was... different. The only time I know we used it was for the fireworks/demolition on New Year's Eve of the old county courthouse. We had to extend the paper's deadline to get the pictures in. The DCS images weren't usable - the fireworks were all purple from what I remember (not blaming the camera - digital was still a strange, new frontier) but the rolls of film dropped to me on the roof of the newspaper building from the photographer in the helicopter that was hovering over me were fine. Now it's "Stand by, I'll FTP these to you from my cell phone's hot spot and you'll have them before we land." Man, I miss the newspaper days. Still in the middle of watching your video. Fujichrome 100, we shot that at The Post (with a little hand-processed C-41 film from what I remember) until we eventually switched to Ektapress C-41 films, nice because the processing was so fast, not an hour like with the E-6, which a more user-friendly loading process and even the chemical mixing process. The Ektapress films were pretty nice but no comparison to RDP though. And of course it's all digital there now. (And never mind the layoffs, very sad.) nikonrumors.com/2013/04/09/interview-with-kodaks-lead-engineer-on-the-early-nikon-based-kodak-dcs-cameras.aspx/
Oh my GOD. The helicopter story, to normal people, would seem crazy but to US it just seems like a Tuesday. The news industry in general was so interesting, so much madness. My press pass got me into so many places I should never have been. And got me shot at, got me rammed by a car and get me held at gunpoint. Such fun. I remember the Ektapress ads. The glory years!
@@DANIELMILNOR505 Incidental to all this, I just got my first MagCloud magazine test about 15 minutes ago. Not a test of an actual publication, just color charts, a few photos, etc. so I can work out settings in Photoshop. I'm impressed with the quality and the price. I'd never thought of doing any kind of self-published magazine until I saw your video about it. Good inspiration!
I really enjoyed hearing your perspective, thanks. It's really interesting to hear from someone with your experience in the industry, especially as someone who went through the huge changes of the last couple of decades. Fwiw I don't think there's anything to be ashamed in being an amateur. I don't think that's what you meant, I am just saying that a lot of us hobbyists know full well that is what we are and are fine with it. I would even go so far as to say that being a hobbyist doesn't mean you can't produce work that matters, it's just that our audience is going to be tiny! I also wouldn't be too down on TH-camrs who don't know all the details of film. If you grew up photographically in the age of digital and didn't have the funds to study photography at uni; or you're making TH-cam videos about your hobby, there's no reason you would know everything. I grew up in the film era but didn't get serious about photography until a few years ago,so everything - film and digital - is a huge learning curve for me. But I also love my day job and have no desire to chuck it all in to work client briefs as a pro. Hipster is such a vague term that I don't know if the people I follow on TH-cam are the same people you refer to, but one of the lovely things about photography is how accessible it is, and therefore the variety of people who can talk about it on TH-cam. For example, box speed. I have heard old hands on Photrio and FADU say similar things to you about it, but also plenty of people who just use box speed. If you are buying a film that says ISO 400 on it, are you going to take a gamble that one of the dozens of disagreeing people on fora are right, or trust the company who engineered it? I suppose what I am getting at is that people have all sorts of rational reasons for different approaches. That got very rambly, thanks for reading all the way to the end!
Thanks Daniel! From a digital photographer that transitioned into film 2 years ago then back to digital due to quarantine and the inability to access labs in my area, I gotta say that learning the ropes of film has totally changed my digital process and workflow. Regardless of the medium, photography is amazing and I love both (though my Bessa R is glaring at me right now).
I think a lot of the film experts transitioned to digital really well. Not all but many. There was a multi-year period of wild overshooting, even the celebration of that overshooting. It was odd but has since tapered off.
Got into photography a few years ago, Bought a digital camera ,then the stumbling block, invest my time in learning photography or spend it learning another software package. Ended up with a Nikon F2 some chemistry and a scanner. Learned photography basics first. I take the photo, I process the photo and I view the photo if someone else happens to see it and like it all the better.
Most (or all) of the corrections for digital shots you've mentioned are part of what ACR/Lightroom and C1 do nowadays, so it should no longer be a problem. Bur very interesting story, and it shows how much know-how was actually present in professional film processing labs (and luckily still is), that people weren't aware of "back then".
so many truths within. i went film to digital and back to film again (gutted I sold my M6/50cron/35lux in 2002 i shot my kids birth with). happy to have a MP and pentax67 for life...well as long as film is still available. I love shooting film and even really enjoy dev at home but just hated the scanning process. now using a mirrorless+macro to digitize with a Negative Supply 35mm holder which feeds a full uncut roll. love it! yes, i still have a digital SL for projects that require a faster turn around and even an x100v that i use like a sketch book for ideas but the passion is still the organic feel of film. subscribed and looking forward to more long form rants
Ya, that's a smart move. I've not yet copied digi cam but it makes sense. Great scanners are SO expensive, hard to find, slow and very difficult to get repaired.
Daniel Milnor totally. Had a pakon when they first got to consumers in maybe 6 or 7 years ago for $200 and sold it a few years later when they were going for $1500-2000 mainly cuz I was afraid of when not if it would die. With this feeder/holder, I just upgrade the digital camera ;)
as a younger film photographer who cannot personally relate to a lot of the history/transition youre talking about -- thank you. I really needed to hear this and it has definitely aided in my thought process and overall creative workflow
Every time I watch this video, I not only get inspired to shoot, but learn more. I first developed film in 1960 and to this day, the smell of fix reminds me of those days. You are so right, it is not just the look I get from film, portra and 3200 in 645, I love the process and making every shot count. It makes me craft every image, not just blast away and chimp. My question is with portra you indicate shoot at 100 and push process 2 stops. Do you mean meter at 100 and develop for 400, 2 stops higher, ie, normal? With 3200 film, would you meter at 1250 and process at 3200?
I don't shoot Portra that way but many of the photogs in Los Angeles did that. This was during my time at Kodak Professional. Nobody seemed to shoot Portra at box speed, and I mean nobody. I rate it at 250 and process normal. And yes, I rate TMAX 3200 at 1250-2000 range and then process for 3200.
I needed to hear that! I shot all those films you mentioned in the 80s and 90s. After that I focused on life as an art director. Now I'm returning to my passion, still have many of those in the freezer, including Panatomic-X (my BW passion). It was so nice to hear you, brought SO MANY good memories back, man! Thanks!! Stimulating! I'm having a hard time finding the right things to rebuild my darkroom, but things are on the right track, My F2 and F3 are ready. You've no idea how much it was stimulating to hear this. My best!!
Just left you a comment but it didn't go through for some reason....hmm. Careers were made on Panatomic X. Also amazing were the papers available which all had heavy metals so it was an environmental tradeoff. Glad you found something worthy.
@@DANIELMILNOR505 sure! That was incredible. A 32 ASA film that had grain and tones not competing with each other. How I loved it. Hope the ones on the freezer do well when I decide to use them. I'm from Brazil, darkroom materials are hard to find but I'm working on rebuilding my home lab with quality materials. I'm impressed by how many things vanished! Well, we have to deal with whaat we have and do our best to take the most of it. I've the same vision on many points. I see people today don't know what they're doing. They don't undestand liight, they shoot 1000 pictures on a day and believe that's photography. In my opinion that's editing, no photography. I'm an Art Director, I've heard many times "photographers" say "later we fix that on Photoshop" - whatever it is, from bokeh to background colors, composition, focus, you name it. ABSURD! As you said it's much easier to take three shots right. But you have to KNOW what you're doing. And many know the equipment, the techniques, but lack the vision. I follow thw Ansel Adams school: visualiza what you want and work to get to it. Daniel, pleased to meet you! I've already subscribed to your channel. I'll watch you videos and sometimes hope to have the pleasure to exchange ideas, vision, concepts with you again, ok? My best!
Daniel Milnor a note: Fuji RDP is still relatively widely available, in its third revision, known as Provia 100F. It’s pushing abilities are, I assume, even better now with the technological advancements. I’ve pushed it two stops and indeed it looks amazing, clean shadows with no shifts
Awesome vid! Just bought myself a film camera and it has completely rejuvenated my love for photography. I have been playing around with all sorts of film just to see which I like the best... but you recommend just sticking with one eh? Or maybe once I find a film that I like?
Hot Damn! I learned sooo much from your video, especially the actual film speed. I would say I am an educated photographer, not a pro tho. It my extreme hobby now that I'm fully retired. I have a website, but it is mostly a travel site I keep. I grew up in film in the 70s. Then got out of photography totally. Bought my first DSLR in 2005. And now I have going back to film. It is so fun! I have 6 digital cams, 3 35mm film cams, and 2 TLRs. What I pick to shoot with is pretty much my mood, and what I am going to shoot. I am going TLR for sure now, and I would say each photo I make takes me about 5 minutes. From figuring exposure, composing, shooting, and then I record in a journal each shot and the exposure values as I have never shot FULLY analog manual TLRs before, and not using a single battery for the shot! I never talk camera specs, that's boring. I am also a retired Navy Chief, I have thick skin, you can't hurt my feelings :) I post on Flickr for fun, and never get any comments, that is OK, what somebody thinks about a photo is completely different what another would think. Cheers!
Make a magazine, leave lined pages then hand the magazine to someone you know and ask them to write their thoughts about the images on the lined pages. Then do it with a stranger. See what happens. Navy Chief. That sounds like a real job. I would have joined the Navy but it was the fortitude, strength, courage and aptitude I lacked. And I would have probably failed the drug test. Film is a blast. It really is. I wish I had better logistics because I'd be using it all the time. I am, finally, learning to love the digital side of things but it's a different experience.
@@DANIELMILNOR505 believe me, I was sweating the urinalysis test ... I went in when I was 31, very long hair, bell bottoms, and big ol boots. They had fun with me.
So much sense in all that Dan, I started when there was only film and have been through digital and come back to film but will use either depending on what I am shooting and why. Great post.
Oh ya. Both the baggage machine, a CTX5000 which will fry your film on first pass and the inside scanners which will gradually begin to base fog your film. Lead bags, hand inspection and be polite. Also know TSA is untrained in any of this and will tell you all kinds of misinformation.
I worked in the CTX Vault in ATL ... 12 machines .. batteries will trigger a “Fail Safe” more than anything.This was before I new anything about photography. (Still clueless)...I’m considering 4x5 ... scary .Thanks!. The long term project would be to photograph ladies over the age of 40 in South America. It’s amazing how good they look. I think Blurb would be a good start for a test mag... 40+ Magazine. I apologize for the barrage of questions... Thanks for your contribution. May I share your video to a few groups... ? I will bug you later about fly fishing... my Oyster rod is ready...peace.
I was talking to a landscape photographer selling his over saturated colour prints at a market. I told him I shot black and white film. He said ' so you use your phone??' Not phone -FILM!!! He had no idea what I was taking about....
Ya, it takes all kinds to create this photo world of ours. If I had a dollar for every time another photographer or industry person tried to tell me what I had to shoot...with film, keep it up!
Thank you for this video, Daniel. I shot film since my childhood in 80th. But since 2007 shot digital. In 2018, I returned to shot film again, as I could not find a digital camera that would meet my needs. And agree with you. Now I just shoot roll of film and most of the shots are ready to go as is or just after little correction in Photoshop. But I have not lost hope that I will still find a digital camera that will match what I need))
@@DANIELMILNOR505 Dear Dan, thank you for your kind words. I'm to far from finding my way, just shoting film. And thanks for your ideas and inspiration once again.
Man can I say as an artist who studied fine arts from 2000 - 2004 ... I learnt the beautiful zen of processing BW (and colour) and the endless frustration of the darkroom (for me)... Now as an artist who has done global Shows and books I can only continue to create if I’m shooting film ... I need the organic nature of creativity (for me). I understand light with film , can pre vis the print with film , the organic nature links to my meditation and spiritual practice... Your a good soul Daniel (love your glasses as well) , a real soul and one who understands that we are all just vibrational energy moving from one state to the next ! NB; Plus I Was the guy long ago who told you about ticks on northern beaches of Sydney, AU 🙏 Lyme disease is a dirty little secret that Australian doctor say..”it doesn’t exist here”... it does exist here in Australia
Markus, I REMEMBER you and I remember that conversation. And yes, the Oz medical world tries to downplay Lyme and has from the beginning. I've spoken to many folks who are suffering and apparently they made it difficult on doctors if they even admit Lyme patients. I too love film. But much of what i shoot today isn't really worthy of the time and logistics of film. I rarely ever get to work on projects these days, so mosts of what I shoot is filler or just valuable for my other work purposes.
Thanks for this video - really enjoyed watching it. I fell in love with photography as a teenager and it was never about the film or the lens or the camera. It was about the feeling of imagining how a scene/subject would look and trying to capture that... and that feeling of seeing if I had done it or not when I saw the resulting image. Somewhere along the way it became more about the stuff I was using to capture images (it was never 100% about that but there were periods where I definitely became distracted by it). In those times the joy I experienced from photography waned. Digital definitely hurt my love of photography. In fact it's been 20 years since I shot film and I so wish I'd seen this video before I made the switch. It's only in the last few months that I've swung back and have begun to reconnect with what I loved about it back as a teen. Running my first roll of Tri-X through my camera at the moment and immediately switched it to 250 :-)
It's like assembling a puzzle. Things that trigger our creativity or brain paths. It can come and go, like film, but whatever you need....keep looking for it.
34:05 so true! :D I happened to buy a Bessa L with the 15mm about a month ago. The camera arrived and boy was fas it fun looking thorugh that viewfinder! Immediately out to shoot some pictures. It was fun for the first half a dozen frames or so. Several weeks later and I’m still on frame 8. I’m gonna bang my head to the wall and finish the roll eventually, but I’m damn sure to sell that kit the same day. I don’t know....probably there’s someone out there building an amazing career purely based on super wide angle photography, but it’s definitely not for me. They don’t call certain focal lengths the ”classics” for nothing.
my art school teacher used to say: without all those people using film, making it a profitable industry, there would be no film for us. so let's hope many many people keep that industry alive. long live the hype, long live film.
"Nobody knows anything" the truest statement on TH-cam.
Me especially.....
@@DANIELMILNOR505 I feel like Uncle Dano knows a few things.
Bravo! I spent my whole life working as a product photographer and pro photolab printer/processor. I am now 70, and listening to you made me smile. You hit the nail on the head with your discussion, so much ill informed opinions in photography today, so much nonsense. I now retired and have a nice big studio and darkroom, and my pleasure in life is teaching people to develop and print, from beginner to expert, and by expert I mean having the experience to understand how to get the most out of a negative. I have some younger clients who still have me do their portfolio prints, which is gratifying. Film is still relevant in modern photography, and many people shoot film and digitise for editing, which works well and gives a good result. We were shooting 10x8 ektachrome for high end automotive shoots way into the digital era because it made the cars look more desirable. I have subscribed, and look forward to viewing more of your work.
Wow, 8x10 auto. Legendary. I used to love to talk to the auto art directors who would go on location all over the world. Talking about sunrise in Morocco vs Spain, etc. Teaching is a gift. Glad to hear.
8 minutes plus in -- I love it. I'll subscribe. Looking forward to following. Best wishes.
Ha, thank you. Good old film.
Hey, I went to UT at Austin as well!
Clearly, two geniuses....
What a genius move of TH-cam to drop me this video after I watched the trillionth video about a youtuber with a beard talking about his new "these ones are getting harder to find" rare medium format camera and showing one of the most mediocre images ever. I was thinking like "Am I the only asshole in the room to see that TH-cam is full of this clones of hipsters sitting at their clean minimalistic 'Ow I better put that book in the background so they see" desk with the EXACT same lightning on their face and background, talking about cameras and not showing any above average images that would not even upstage your usual iPhone photo or even images at all?" Yes, I needed to get that of my chest. I can breath again. Thanks to you.
Well, they are catering to an audience and building following. That is what they know. The photography part takes too much time, typically, for anyone these days to really invest, especially those on YT. You simply can't produce good work a fast rate.
@@DANIELMILNOR505 I totally get that. And I absorb the (limited) tech info I occasionally get out of them. But it makes me giggle inside. Followers praising their images through the roof. Or fellow vloggers dropping by for a quick "You scratched my back, now I'll scratch your back" disguised as a genuine comment. It's gets bloated, styled and pretend. Which made your video such a breath (or storm) of fresh air. Can't wait for episode 002. Don't hold back.
I thoroughly loved this! You broke down the film v. digital debate to the true facts, with a unique and informed perspective as a pro in the industry for years. As an amateur/enthusiast photographer, I have been shooting film 90% of the time for the past few years, because 1) I love the end result (mostly a bnw shooter), and 2) I thoroughly enjoy the process. I love using all manual film cameras that I've bought off eBay for less than $100 that are often smaller, lighter, and easier to use compared to their digital counterpart, not to mention extremely less expensive. Taking my time, manually adjusting the dials to get a "right," or wrong exposure is so much more rewarding then auto everything because I feel like I'm actually making something, even if it comes out like trash. I took the time to learn the craft, something I will keep learning my entire life. Likewise, self-developing my negatives truly makes me feel like I'm contributing to the whole process from start to finish. I'm not a pro, I don't have clients to serve so I have no concerns about "sharpness" or the perceived costs of film, it's purely for my own joy. As someone in their early 30s, while I grew up with film end product, I didn't appreciate film cameras in their day, other than polaroids, in a sense I'm "revisiting" film, and I love it.
If you are happy and making pictures then that is what matters. Film and digital are both great but require different skills and different lifestyles.
Hope to see lot's more of Thoughts on Film Photography, totally love this, you are a great speaker! Cheers!
Amazing thanks for sharing
I have followed years since the Leica File thanks for being real
At some point I will hopefully do those again...
Just subscribed to your channel because of the blunt way you spoke about this. I am not a photographer, not even amateur level. I am just a family guy interested in learning about photography with no filters or ideology.
Wow! This is amazing information! Finally, a authentic, honest and transparent voice on Photography. A no B.S. guy. How refreshing. We've had our differences, but I have a tremendous amount of respect for Daniel.
So much knowledge in one video. I learned a lot of valuable information from this one video. Thank you so much!
Dainel. Loved your presentation. I can tell your heart is in it. The best 35 minutes I have spent on TH-cam in a long time. Thank you.
Absolute gold.
Holy cow. You've just convinced me to pull my film camera off the dusty shelf. I appreciate the film processing suggestions.
I really enjoy these. I can’t stick with most people on TH-cam more than about 5 minutes. I’ll take the long form ramble any day
amen
Making me rethink my channel with that little talk. Haha refreshing take on the TH-cam world. I’m guilty of it for sure and I’m fresh enough where I can fix my ways before I’m lost forever. Looking forward to the next one of these!
This is exactly what I needed to hear. I've been caught in this Film-TH-cam-fueled rush to buy tons of different film cameras mostly motivated by mediocre photographers who happen to have high subscribers. But lately I've been sticking to one body and one lens it's allowed me to focus on what this is all supposed to be about, the images.
Once you start making solid imagery and then printing those images the YT conversation will fade. My guess anyway.
THANK YOU !!!!!!!!
You are a breath of fresh air in this industry.
ok, you win, I subscribed. Excellent points.
Great video !!!
Not even 1/8 into this video and I just became a huge fan. Preach on.
Thanks Jose. Glad you like.
@@DANIELMILNOR505 No thank you. There are not many sources of actual photography knowledge on YT, it all gear reviews, affiliate links, and SquareSpace. Refreshing to hear someone just talk about the work.
On fire 🔥 Solid points and great insights
Finally someone with real experience to learn from.
I’m so glad a stumbled on this video. I’m now a subscriber. Please keep making content about film and film photography because it’s finally nice to listen and learn from someone who has actual experience and knowledge from years in the industry. Thank you!
More on the way. Not sure when but it's coming.
@@DANIELMILNOR505 Please sir, more film content... More info about box speed vs real speed would be great. I'm doing my own research though.
I could listen to you allllllll week!!!!
Great video, I think perhaps one of your best yet. 👍😺✅
I got alot out of this one Dan! Love the long rants.. packed with tips and truths! I've been shooting nothing but film for 2 yrs and sold my digital gear off. It was the best creative choice I have made for the work I like to make. I I especially found the 'box speed' info interesting. Look forward to the next one.
Hey Thomas, I would sell my digital but still using it all the time for work and mine is probably not worth much anymore...
Just shot my first ever roll of film. Sent it off for developing and scanning. Exciting to see what comes back.
Amazing. Fingers crossed for you.
Three years later, how'd it go?
@@adamcook6396 Wow, this was 3 years ago! Really enjoyed the photos I took. But my camera gave big issues with my next two rolls and since I have not done anything since.
A good reminder though. Either look to service my camera or check again for other options.
Hey Daniel, thanks for all of this, so much valuable information. I plan to watch this again many times!
I felt like I was back in 1991 listening to my photography mentor. This is a refreshing video to find in the TH-cam photography ecosphere. Please keep making this kind of video!
That was a good year....
@@DANIELMILNOR505 I was 14 that year...anyways, yes, more film content please!
Thanks Dan, that's a great piece.
Great Video as always Dan. I bought my first film camera 8 years ago to go with some Canon FD lenses I was using on mirrorless at the time. Figured why not have the option as I have the lenses? Messed up my first roll as I had no real knowledge. Got a second roll successfully shot, but put film aside for a while. Then after learning more on digital, I went back to try film about 5 years ago as an experiment, had a bit of fun but only shot a couple of rolls here and there. When I realized how easy it was, now that I knew more about exposure and photography, I've been shooting film exclusively in my own time for the last 3 and a half years. I've now shot about 110 rolls of film in many formats with a handful of cameras.
I've narrowed down my preferred films to Ilford Delta and Kodak Ultramax and I mostly shoot just one camera and one lens (Canon P Rangefinder and a 35mm lens) on a daily basis. And I've been developing black and white for 2 years now. I've learnt a hell of a lot from my mistakes, but I'm still learning and having fun. Hopefully will put together a blurb zine soon.
Looking forward to your next video!
Way to go. I would use WAY more film if I was spending my time working on my own projects but have very little time for that these days. And logistics are challenging. Zine is a good move.
Really good talk. Still use and love film.
Would be interested if you made another video around the idea of not shooting your film at box speed or if you could point us in a direction for some resources around this that would be very helpful
I wish I knew of a good resource. There is so much testing required with film if you want to find the nuance that allows you to get what you are after. In school I was shooting at box speed. When I started assisting my mind was blown by the range of what I saw.
@@DANIELMILNOR505 that makes sense. I'll keep testing stuff out and see what I can get. I really appreciate the content. It's all been very thought provoking as I continue my photography journey
Excellent rant. I'm not a photographer, but I repaired cameras for 25 years and met a lot of camera owners across the spectrum. The conclusion I came to was that amateur photographers cared mostly about the equipment, while the pro photographer cared mostly about the image. All that mattered was the image. And selling it, presumably.
My experience too. Same for truck guys, fishing guys, etc. Gear heads vs people who catch fish.
All great stuff, I am LA guy TriX at 100 works for me! Great stories!
Hmm, I like that. One of the things I love about film is the range of manipulation.
I was just yesterday explaining to an older photographer I've had the fortune to assist and learn from, that I, as a kid (well, I'm 30) coming up with digital in this age, had interesting opportunities while I also missed out on some important things. I learned taking photos firing 2000 rounds on AV, then sifting through the photos in Lightroom to see if any of them turned out, celebrating myself when I found a decent photo. While that's a great way to develop a distinguishing eye for what looks good and what doesn't, it's not really image-making. I've felt happy to rediscover photography through film and learn a bunch of stuff that I wasn't really learning with digital. It's like you say, the charm is in the limitation. Thanks for a really entertaining and informative video, looking forward to more.
I did the same with digital. When it arrived it came with overshooting at epic levels. Good photographers have tappered off to some degree but you still see people coming back with 10,000's of images and think "why?"
Great speech, I really appreciate your statements. I am a true film user. Looking forward to such open thoughts...
Just fantastic, thank you very much sir! Greatings from Cologne, best of luck to you.
used to love the kodak e100sw for beauty editorial
A good film. But a long and funny history. I'm compiling a film about strange film facts and ideas.
EPP was great! used it for all my studio portraits.
It was, and it was........80speed.
Thanks! This was probably the most helpful film video I've encountered. I got into photography in high school and college, switched to film after dropping out of journalism school because I wasn't using my DSLR as much, and then picked the hobby back up 8 years later after losing bike racing as a hobby. It's been a weird world to get back into as film got back into style unbeknownst to me. There's definitely a lot of videos I've encountered on here that seem focused on chasing Instagram likes.
IG and the rest of social are nothing but pure poison in my mind. Designed to addict, designed to exploit human vulnerability, designed to destroy free will, designed to manipulate and yet pretty much every single photographer I know makes excuse after excuse for why they continue to use the platforms. WE are the problem. Yet another reason why I have little interest in the photography world.
Dan, I've been following your channel for a while but for whatever reason, this video passed me by but showed up at the right time. Like you, I shoot Fujifilm digitally and film from time-to-time for personal artistic work. I've been having this conversation, not to the detail you did in this video, with some fellow photographers who started with digital, got interested in film but know nothing about film other than what they've learned on TH-cam. I sent this video to all of them today. Thanks for your insight and the "films" you load on TH-cam sir.
Poor guys. I hope it does them good. Film and digital are lifestyles in my mind. I like both, like you.
@@DANIELMILNOR505 agreed!
thanks Dan, been waiting to hear your talk on this for a while ....great knowledge and thoughts it was fascinating to me .to listen you .. ... some food thought for sure ...
I feel like I get so much more from Dan’s interviews and films than I do from other photography channels that are so hyper-focused on gear and gear reviews. Gear reviews have their place but you can only watch so many reviews of a $5,000 camera you don’t ever plan to buy. None of that stuff inspires action. They’re done by TH-cam vloggers for other TH-cam vloggers. It’s these videos that inspire me to get moving on my projects, take them seriously, and go shoot another roll.
Thanks B. I suck at gear reviews and my two fav cams are fifty years old. Not great for getting subscriptions I'm sure.
Because Dan is a PHOTOGRAPHER, not a gear collector.
I need more videos like this!!!!
High school first roll I developed in black and white and was done. I knew what held my passion from that day forward
That seems to be a common affliction. Same for me.
Hope you will have more episodes. I being a film shooter, not professional but I do for fun. But I never put my film images in instagram or online. I print it, put it in a album enjoy them with myself and my friends.
Great plan! I love photobooks but I also love the old school albums. In fact, we had friends over last night, friends we traveled with in 1998, and within seconds we had the album out looking at the images.
This is pure inspiration. Thanks! I am an old man (well, 45) getting into photography. Just bought myself a Fujifilm X-T4, not to have any gear excused. If my photos are poor, I cannot blame the gear, only myself. I will try to implement your ideas to digital, e.g. sticking to one film simulation at a specific ISO. I think that is bound to be a wise limitation. Keep rocking!
It goes against what the photo forums and reviewers say, but you’ll get the best colours, tonality and noise if you use the lowest possible ISO and try to get the exposure right in camera (as much as the highlight latitude allows you to)
This is EXACTLY what photographers under 37 need to hear. Cheers, Milnor!
Didn't all those famous people die at 37? No, wait, that was 27. Dude, you are free and clear!
@@DANIELMILNOR505 Hah, I'm 32! Old enough to shoot film on vacations as a kid, young enough to rediscover it as an adult. I know a lot of people obsessing over gear & fetishizing film without a real project in mind.
I’m so glad I found your channel. This is so underrated
One of your most interesting video. Been shooting film for about three years, and you are right you mentioned stuff no-one mentions. Please do more film videos, on anything, I don’t care.
On the way...
As a millennial who got roped into film with the hipster/nostalgic youtubers, this was a fascinating listen and I can't wait to hear more from a legitimate professional. I myself have really paired down my fascination on gear and am currently committed to exclusively shooting with the 40mm lens I have on my Leica M4-2. Improvement is coming slowly but I believe my ability to compose an image will better for it in the long run
Little gear is a relief. Never have to think about it. Just shoot, edit, sequence and print.
Really interesting video. Keep them coming
Please more thoughts about film photography. Always embrace learning
Straight forward! Love or hate 2020, but so much is being revealed. Great video, subscribed!
Thank you Daniel, you hit the nail on the head! Great memories, too. Do you remember a small bottle product known as "Push 8000"? We used to add that to Microdol X 1:4, chemistry around 100f, and processed for 32 minutes for our 35mm Tri-X or HP-5 when i was a freelancer with the Miami Herald back in the late 1970's. Needed to do this when shooting professional football or soccer at the night games! I vaguely remember you showing the digital Kodak cameras to some shooters in Denver back when I was with Reed Photo Imaging, but most of my dealings were with Tom Hissong, our sales guy from Kodak. I've often said we had shot ourselves in the foot by going digital, as we could no longer drop off the film and grab a cup of coffee or lunch, and then come back check the clip tests to see if we needed a little more "oomph". Oh, and I still remember all of my notch codes... That being said, it almost feels like cheating when I grab one of my Olympus digital cameras (and this goes with just about any modern digital camera) and just have fun in composing & shooting. All the best, sir!
Holy crap. I've never heard of that but when you mention high school football all I can think about is the paper having a 300mm F/2 and TMZ for JUST his purpose. It was the only time anyone used that lens. Olympus RIP. What a bummer. The Microdol reference....so good.
could‘ve listened for another 3 hrs. awesome.
Saw this back in late 90’s while I was using 810 Polaroid and 120 b&w & positive stock. Have now moved to digital and like the poster mentioned use it as I have any camera - making sure it’s in the can .. with my past film photography it was not always 100% guaranteed to have the image but as long as the kit was in working order the photograph was there after processing. Now digital allows for checking if you’re unsure but I don’t feel comfortable with the idea of is it there is it not. Just a way of thinking over a very long time in a varied career and life. Digital or film or wet plates whichever you feel is suitable for your practice, art or hobby.
Yes, it's all good and worthy and valid and entertaining.
More like this please.
So good! All interesting and definitely refreshing. I'll be following you along for sure. 😊
Your best video EVER! Thank you!
fantastic Daniel, i have been itching to get back to film photography, the only thing holding me back is the cost of processing.I may look into learning the basics of black and white processing as i mainly shoot black and white with my nikon d3 and 50mm lens, i think you put your arguments over very well and thank you ,very imformative, best wishes and be safe. Jeff
Processing film is SUPER cheap. And it's easy and fun and offers endless variety.
Love hearing from photographers who know what they're talking about. Subscription earned 👌
The best I took away from this is "It just doesn't matter". I am keen on film and digital having started photography in 1975 reasonably seriously. All the things you say about film are true but I am just happy to see people embracing photography whether it's film,digital, iphone,pinhole,holga,polaroid etc.. In reality the best negatives are arguably the old glass plate ones.The detail in those pics is amazing.That would slow us down a bit.Almost to meditation speed.Thanks for creating content. It does stimulate thinking.
Geoff Thompson I’m about to do something in regard to glass plates
@@DANIELMILNOR505 thanks Daniel. I particularly am a big fan of Darius and Tabitha Kinsey. I have a big coffee table book of their work which is amazing.I think I will do a book review on it soon.The technology they used was mainly glass plates with massive cameras and tripods.
That was fun! And inspiring.
I’m new to photography been a about a year now. Bought a sony a6000 then got hooked. So down the rabbit hole of photography ordering books buying every documentary i could get my hands on. Even pulled up old courses and class lessons i could find on google. With that being said i bought 3 35mm film cameras just got a rangefinder. I bought them for learning experience in the sense you got to know your roots. I do enjoy shooting the film portra 400 for me . But lol the hipster film culture is to insane for me all them flannels and beanies and deep Confucius quotes..love the video subbed , it will be good ganing some knowledge from you .
No Confucius quotes from me. And it's too hot for a beanie. And I have no tattoos and no drone so no chance I'm gonna fit in that crowd. I do have a van however...
@@DANIELMILNOR505 re: Tattoos - I'm playing the long game and waiting for not having a single tattoo to be the "edgy" trend.
Holy shit Daniel! Can i spam this video everywhere? So true! Nice words. Keep going on with this topics, we need it!
More!
this was glorious
One of the best nostalgia trips I'll go on this year... Twenty years since I shot film daily (on a newspaper), and now Mr Milnor tells me why Tmax3200 was rubbish shooting dimly lit football night games in Northern England. I believed the box...& got thin negs. Y'see, always learning. Excellent video Mr M.
That film is magic but it's nowhere near a real 3200. Getting it right can be tricky because every lab seemed to have a different strategy.
Daniel Milnor even Kodak themselves in their data sheet state it’s 800-1000 ISO speed
Kodak DCS... wow! When I worked for The Palm Beach Post we had an original model Kodak DCS with the Data Storage Unit. It was... different. The only time I know we used it was for the fireworks/demolition on New Year's Eve of the old county courthouse. We had to extend the paper's deadline to get the pictures in. The DCS images weren't usable - the fireworks were all purple from what I remember (not blaming the camera - digital was still a strange, new frontier) but the rolls of film dropped to me on the roof of the newspaper building from the photographer in the helicopter that was hovering over me were fine. Now it's "Stand by, I'll FTP these to you from my cell phone's hot spot and you'll have them before we land." Man, I miss the newspaper days.
Still in the middle of watching your video. Fujichrome 100, we shot that at The Post (with a little hand-processed C-41 film from what I remember) until we eventually switched to Ektapress C-41 films, nice because the processing was so fast, not an hour like with the E-6, which a more user-friendly loading process and even the chemical mixing process. The Ektapress films were pretty nice but no comparison to RDP though. And of course it's all digital there now. (And never mind the layoffs, very sad.)
nikonrumors.com/2013/04/09/interview-with-kodaks-lead-engineer-on-the-early-nikon-based-kodak-dcs-cameras.aspx/
Oh my GOD. The helicopter story, to normal people, would seem crazy but to US it just seems like a Tuesday. The news industry in general was so interesting, so much madness. My press pass got me into so many places I should never have been. And got me shot at, got me rammed by a car and get me held at gunpoint. Such fun. I remember the Ektapress ads. The glory years!
@@DANIELMILNOR505 Incidental to all this, I just got my first MagCloud magazine test about 15 minutes ago. Not a test of an actual publication, just color charts, a few photos, etc. so I can work out settings in Photoshop. I'm impressed with the quality and the price. I'd never thought of doing any kind of self-published magazine until I saw your video about it. Good inspiration!
Love it! What a crazy ride it's been for the Foto world. You need to make a whole clip on crazy stories alone! Entitled "It just doesn't matter"...
I really enjoyed hearing your perspective, thanks. It's really interesting to hear from someone with your experience in the industry, especially as someone who went through the huge changes of the last couple of decades.
Fwiw I don't think there's anything to be ashamed in being an amateur. I don't think that's what you meant, I am just saying that a lot of us hobbyists know full well that is what we are and are fine with it. I would even go so far as to say that being a hobbyist doesn't mean you can't produce work that matters, it's just that our audience is going to be tiny!
I also wouldn't be too down on TH-camrs who don't know all the details of film. If you grew up photographically in the age of digital and didn't have the funds to study photography at uni; or you're making TH-cam videos about your hobby, there's no reason you would know everything. I grew up in the film era but didn't get serious about photography until a few years ago,so everything - film and digital - is a huge learning curve for me. But I also love my day job and have no desire to chuck it all in to work client briefs as a pro. Hipster is such a vague term that I don't know if the people I follow on TH-cam are the same people you refer to, but one of the lovely things about photography is how accessible it is, and therefore the variety of people who can talk about it on TH-cam. For example, box speed. I have heard old hands on Photrio and FADU say similar things to you about it, but also plenty of people who just use box speed. If you are buying a film that says ISO 400 on it, are you going to take a gamble that one of the dozens of disagreeing people on fora are right, or trust the company who engineered it? I suppose what I am getting at is that people have all sorts of rational reasons for different approaches.
That got very rambly, thanks for reading all the way to the end!
I think being an amateur is the best way. I really do. Have felt this way for over a decade.
Thanks Daniel! From a digital photographer that transitioned into film 2 years ago then back to digital due to quarantine and the inability to access labs in my area, I gotta say that learning the ropes of film has totally changed my digital process and workflow. Regardless of the medium, photography is amazing and I love both (though my Bessa R is glaring at me right now).
I think a lot of the film experts transitioned to digital really well. Not all but many. There was a multi-year period of wild overshooting, even the celebration of that overshooting. It was odd but has since tapered off.
When I was in school, we learned to develop and print film. That was in the 90s and early 2000s. Was a lot of fun.
Great video. Great content. I think you are my favorite person on youtube. Keep this videos comming. Very inspiring :)
That transition era is so interesting, love to heard your story
Got into photography a few years ago, Bought a digital camera ,then the stumbling block, invest my time in learning photography or spend it learning another software package. Ended up with a Nikon F2 some chemistry and a scanner. Learned photography basics first. I take the photo, I process the photo and I view the photo if someone else happens to see it and like it all the better.
That's a good move. A great way to learn.
Most (or all) of the corrections for digital shots you've mentioned are part of what ACR/Lightroom and C1 do nowadays, so it should no longer be a problem. Bur very interesting story, and it shows how much know-how was actually present in professional film processing labs (and luckily still is), that people weren't aware of "back then".
All the analog masters, labs, retouchers, etc. are the ones who are the best at digital. Go figure.
so many truths within. i went film to digital and back to film again (gutted I sold my M6/50cron/35lux in 2002 i shot my kids birth with). happy to have a MP and pentax67 for life...well as long as film is still available. I love shooting film and even really enjoy dev at home but just hated the scanning process. now using a mirrorless+macro to digitize with a Negative Supply 35mm holder which feeds a full uncut roll. love it! yes, i still have a digital SL for projects that require a faster turn around and even an x100v that i use like a sketch book for ideas but the passion is still the organic feel of film. subscribed and looking forward to more long form rants
Ya, that's a smart move. I've not yet copied digi cam but it makes sense. Great scanners are SO expensive, hard to find, slow and very difficult to get repaired.
Daniel Milnor totally. Had a pakon when they first got to consumers in maybe 6 or 7 years ago for $200 and sold it a few years later when they were going for $1500-2000 mainly cuz I was afraid of when not if it would die. With this feeder/holder, I just upgrade the digital camera ;)
as a younger film photographer who cannot personally relate to a lot of the history/transition youre talking about -- thank you. I really needed to hear this and it has definitely aided in my thought process and overall creative workflow
Matthew, you might find some of it useful. Always fun to know odd things about this world.
Every time I watch this video, I not only get inspired to shoot, but learn more. I first developed film in 1960 and to this day, the smell of fix reminds me of those days. You are so right, it is not just the look I get from film, portra and 3200 in 645, I love the process and making every shot count. It makes me craft every image, not just blast away and chimp.
My question is with portra you indicate shoot at 100 and push process 2 stops. Do you mean meter at 100 and develop for 400, 2 stops higher, ie, normal? With 3200 film, would you meter at 1250 and process at 3200?
I don't shoot Portra that way but many of the photogs in Los Angeles did that. This was during my time at Kodak Professional. Nobody seemed to shoot Portra at box speed, and I mean nobody. I rate it at 250 and process normal. And yes, I rate TMAX 3200 at 1250-2000 range and then process for 3200.
@@DANIELMILNOR505 Thanks for the reply.
I enjoyed this ramble! I gotta say I am totally in love with the E100 and it's what I am mostly shooting now.
As long as your shooting, you're shooting. Keep it up.
I loved every minute of this. 👊🏼
Thanks Craig.
I needed to hear that! I shot all those films you mentioned in the 80s and 90s. After that I focused on life as an art director. Now I'm returning to my passion, still have many of those in the freezer, including Panatomic-X (my BW passion). It was so nice to hear you, brought SO MANY good memories back, man! Thanks!! Stimulating!
I'm having a hard time finding the right things to rebuild my darkroom, but things are on the right track, My F2 and F3 are ready.
You've no idea how much it was stimulating to hear this. My best!!
Just left you a comment but it didn't go through for some reason....hmm. Careers were made on Panatomic X. Also amazing were the papers available which all had heavy metals so it was an environmental tradeoff. Glad you found something worthy.
@@DANIELMILNOR505 sure! That was incredible. A 32 ASA film that had grain and tones not competing with each other. How I loved it. Hope the ones on the freezer do well when I decide to use them. I'm from Brazil, darkroom materials are hard to find but I'm working on rebuilding my home lab with quality materials. I'm impressed by how many things vanished! Well, we have to deal with whaat we have and do our best to take the most of it.
I've the same vision on many points. I see people today don't know what they're doing. They don't undestand liight, they shoot 1000 pictures on a day and believe that's photography. In my opinion that's editing, no photography. I'm an Art Director, I've heard many times "photographers" say "later we fix that on Photoshop" - whatever it is, from bokeh to background colors, composition, focus, you name it. ABSURD!
As you said it's much easier to take three shots right. But you have to KNOW what you're doing. And many know the equipment, the techniques, but lack the vision. I follow thw Ansel Adams school: visualiza what you want and work to get to it.
Daniel, pleased to meet you! I've already subscribed to your channel. I'll watch you videos and sometimes hope to have the pleasure to exchange ideas, vision, concepts with you again, ok? My best!
Daniel Milnor a note: Fuji RDP is still relatively widely available, in its third revision, known as Provia 100F. It’s pushing abilities are, I assume, even better now with the technological advancements. I’ve pushed it two stops and indeed it looks amazing, clean shadows with no shifts
Awesome vid! Just bought myself a film camera and it has completely rejuvenated my love for photography. I have been playing around with all sorts of film just to see which I like the best... but you recommend just sticking with one eh? Or maybe once I find a film that I like?
Don't lose that feeling. That's why we all started this in the first place. Now...for the darkroom.
Tri-x
@@DANIELMILNOR505 I just watched your video on this. Definitely going to check it out. Thanks.
Hot Damn! I learned sooo much from your video, especially the actual film speed. I would say I am an educated photographer, not a pro tho. It my extreme hobby now that I'm fully retired. I have a website, but it is mostly a travel site I keep. I grew up in film in the 70s. Then got out of photography totally. Bought my first DSLR in 2005. And now I have going back to film. It is so fun! I have 6 digital cams, 3 35mm film cams, and 2 TLRs. What I pick to shoot with is pretty much my mood, and what I am going to shoot. I am going TLR for sure now, and I would say each photo I make takes me about 5 minutes. From figuring exposure, composing, shooting, and then I record in a journal each shot and the exposure values as I have never shot FULLY analog manual TLRs before, and not using a single battery for the shot! I never talk camera specs, that's boring. I am also a retired Navy Chief, I have thick skin, you can't hurt my feelings :) I post on Flickr for fun, and never get any comments, that is OK, what somebody thinks about a photo is completely different what another would think. Cheers!
Make a magazine, leave lined pages then hand the magazine to someone you know and ask them to write their thoughts about the images on the lined pages. Then do it with a stranger. See what happens. Navy Chief. That sounds like a real job. I would have joined the Navy but it was the fortitude, strength, courage and aptitude I lacked. And I would have probably failed the drug test. Film is a blast. It really is. I wish I had better logistics because I'd be using it all the time. I am, finally, learning to love the digital side of things but it's a different experience.
@@DANIELMILNOR505 believe me, I was sweating the urinalysis test ... I went in when I was 31, very long hair, bell bottoms, and big ol boots. They had fun with me.
Thank you for this message sir.
So much sense in all that Dan, I started when there was only film and have been through digital and come back to film but will use either depending on what I am shooting and why. Great post.
Ya, it's a decision made at the front end of a project and then forgotten about.
Superb brother... quick question... Does airport X-ray machines have any effect on film? Preferred canisters? Etc...
Oh ya. Both the baggage machine, a CTX5000 which will fry your film on first pass and the inside scanners which will gradually begin to base fog your film. Lead bags, hand inspection and be polite. Also know TSA is untrained in any of this and will tell you all kinds of misinformation.
I worked in the CTX Vault in ATL ... 12 machines .. batteries will trigger a “Fail Safe” more than anything.This was before I new anything about photography. (Still clueless)...I’m considering 4x5 ... scary .Thanks!. The long term project would be to photograph ladies over the age of 40 in South America. It’s amazing how good they look. I think Blurb would be a good start for a test mag... 40+ Magazine. I apologize for the barrage of questions... Thanks for your contribution. May I share your video to a few groups... ? I will bug you later about fly fishing... my Oyster rod is ready...peace.
Finally, finally the pure truth!!
Daniel, thanks!
I was talking to a landscape photographer selling his over saturated colour prints at a market. I told him I shot black and white film. He said ' so you use your phone??' Not phone -FILM!!! He had no idea what I was taking about....
Ya, it takes all kinds to create this photo world of ours. If I had a dollar for every time another photographer or industry person tried to tell me what I had to shoot...with film, keep it up!
Thank you for this video, Daniel. I shot film since my childhood in 80th. But since 2007 shot digital. In 2018, I returned to shot film again, as I could not find a digital camera that would meet my needs. And agree with you. Now I just shoot roll of film and most of the shots are ready to go as is or just after little correction in Photoshop. But I have not lost hope that I will still find a digital camera that will match what I need))
Film is a different post, that's for sure. Glad you are finding your way.
@@DANIELMILNOR505 Dear Dan, thank you for your kind words. I'm to far from finding my way, just shoting film. And thanks for your ideas and inspiration once again.
Man can I say as an artist who studied fine arts from 2000 - 2004 ...
I learnt the beautiful zen of processing BW (and colour) and the endless frustration of the darkroom (for me)...
Now as an artist who has done global
Shows and books I can only continue to create if I’m shooting film ... I need the organic nature of creativity (for me).
I understand light with film , can pre vis the print with film , the organic nature links to my meditation and spiritual practice...
Your a good soul Daniel (love your glasses as well) , a real soul and one who understands that we are all just vibrational energy moving from one state to the next !
NB; Plus I
Was the guy long ago who told you about ticks on northern beaches of Sydney, AU 🙏 Lyme disease is a dirty little secret that Australian doctor say..”it doesn’t exist here”... it does exist here in Australia
Markus, I REMEMBER you and I remember that conversation. And yes, the Oz medical world tries to downplay Lyme and has from the beginning. I've spoken to many folks who are suffering and apparently they made it difficult on doctors if they even admit Lyme patients. I too love film. But much of what i shoot today isn't really worthy of the time and logistics of film. I rarely ever get to work on projects these days, so mosts of what I shoot is filler or just valuable for my other work purposes.
Daniel Milnor purchased Lab 257 a while back , terrifying stuff.
Thanks for this video - really enjoyed watching it.
I fell in love with photography as a teenager and it was never about the film or the lens or the camera. It was about the feeling of imagining how a scene/subject would look and trying to capture that... and that feeling of seeing if I had done it or not when I saw the resulting image.
Somewhere along the way it became more about the stuff I was using to capture images (it was never 100% about that but there were periods where I definitely became distracted by it). In those times the joy I experienced from photography waned.
Digital definitely hurt my love of photography. In fact it's been 20 years since I shot film and I so wish I'd seen this video before I made the switch. It's only in the last few months that I've swung back and have begun to reconnect with what I loved about it back as a teen.
Running my first roll of Tri-X through my camera at the moment and immediately switched it to 250 :-)
It's like assembling a puzzle. Things that trigger our creativity or brain paths. It can come and go, like film, but whatever you need....keep looking for it.
34:05 so true! :D I happened to buy a Bessa L with the 15mm about a month ago. The camera arrived and boy was fas it fun looking thorugh that viewfinder! Immediately out to shoot some pictures. It was fun for the first half a dozen frames or so. Several weeks later and I’m still on frame 8. I’m gonna bang my head to the wall and finish the roll eventually, but I’m damn sure to sell that kit the same day. I don’t know....probably there’s someone out there building an amazing career purely based on super wide angle photography, but it’s definitely not for me. They don’t call certain focal lengths the ”classics” for nothing.
Mine are for an underwater housing. I've not used them above water. But to your point, very limited use for something that wide.
Ah, OK, underwater, surely makes a lot more sense.