Don't do this! Learn from my MOST expensive mistake
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 2 พ.ย. 2023
- Check out today's video to learn about something that could wind up costing you some money.
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If I remember correctly the guy behind this is a registered sex offender. Who’s income comes from suing other companies that people like. I believe Toxic NATO had to rebrand as UTE because of this guy. Crown and buckle had to pay a fee to him to use the term. Cheapest NATO had to change their name. This guy has done everything in his power professionally and personally to be unlikeable.
you said it, not me. . .pinned
you're a more straightforward man than I!
CheapNatoStraps had to change their name as they were getting 5hit from these morons aswell!
There's several companies based out of UPS Store type addresses that buy trademarks or patents with the intent of earning profit via lawsuits.
He is apparently getting countersued for submitted false applications to obtain the trademarks by, in part, intentionally withholding that "NATO" was a generic name for watch strap product (he wouldn't have received his trademark if they knew it). Hopefully he will get countersued out of existence, and then sued for compensation and bankrupt.
Marc thanks for putting this out. Us watch guys ain't ever buying an official nato strap again. Like if you agree. 😊
;)
I don't have one but it doesn't compare (from what I can tell from the video) to a couple of very similar ones that I do have.
ain't ever?
We, not ‘us’
Lucky for us, there are plenty of others out there as good as or better than the trademark holder’s product. In this case the brand is trash.
This was the nicest FU video I’ve ever seen. Marc is a true gentleman.
It's a bit ridiculous that the trademark holder would go straight to a lawsuit instead of a simple cease and desist letter. It seems like an intentional cash grab in the same way that some slightly shady folks buy up web domains.
I think the cash grab thought is valid.
It should be illegal to trademark something that you didn't come up on yourself.
They are a trademark squatter, This is their business model.
well --- he's a scumbag -- so there's that
Wow! That’s the definition of a cash grab.
You should call your straps "Neato Straps" because they are so damn neat.
I’ll say it. International Watchman inc (Ron sabo) is the one. Don’t buy from him if he’s suing as opposed to asking to rename.
noted!
@@islandwatch Peter Michael in Australia owns the NATO patent in Australia and is going around removing NATO strap listings on ebay that ship to Oz or are sold within Oz. There, NATO with trademark number 1542517 was lodged on 22/02/2013 . Him & Sabo just look for companies that sell watch straps called NATO
thats the pillock!!
Damn, bought from him many times years ago. Thanks for the heads up! Never again!
That's the guy... better hide your kids from this guy!
In the tech world, this kind of company would be called a "patent troll"....so I guess they figured out how to become a "trademark troll". They simply were successful in trademarking a common term because NOBODY thought to do it.
yup
I had a similar encounter with this "NATO" guy, on eBay as well. So I also purchased one of his straps and relisted the item i was selling on eBay with now a "genuine ""NATO" strap , this guy still had a problem with that, in my listing i even showed pictures of the nato name on the buckle. BTW the official NATO $12 straps are no better than the $7 chinese nylon straps ,in my opinion, and believe there is nowhere on the NATO packaging where this product is made. I think that they make more money from lawsuits than selling CHEAP watch straps !
indeed
The actual UK MOD issued NATO G10 straps from Phoenix, are a cool accessory, but aren't very good quality compared to even the cheapest knock-offs. There was an eBay seller from the UK offering those, and even he had to reverse the spelling to OTAN on his listings, ostensibly because IW got to him too.
Well, now I know exactly who I will never buy a nylon strap from again, NATO International! I hope it didn't cost you too much, Marc. Guys like that are colloquially referred to as 'Patent Trolls'. The show Silicon Valley (excellent, by the way) had a whole episode dedicated to explaining how these people work.
When I was in a combined military assignment in Europe, we had shelves full of plans and guidance issued by the North Atlantic Treaty Organization, chock full of the acronym for their full name. But it is their name, and hence, their acronym. Let’s start a campaign to have their headquarters in Brussels send a cease-and-desist letter to the guy who sued Marc!
My most expensive mistake was putting all my savings into pumpkin futures on Oct 30.
LOL
As an intellectual property attorney that frequently deals with these disputes (and as a longtime fan of Marc, the channel, and his watches), take note that nothing in this video is intended as legal advice, and you should not rely on it as such. Consult a licensed attorney if you find yourself involved in any intellectual property dispute. That said, excellent video!
thank you, sir!
Marc's only "advice" was to be cautious. Perhaps re-watching the video again would help.
@@thenexthobby this guy is doing Marc a favor by saying what he said.
Please explain the risk Marc took in publishing this video without Morgan's disclaimer. What is the "favor," especially since Marc listed caveats and never gave legal advice. At best, Morgan gave advice to _viewers_ despite him not being hired by them. Ironic.
It is nice to see people offer support and professional advice.
It is also to see other people give advice that are not lawyers/attorneys that have zero skin in the game.
This comment thread tells me that there is a massive amount of free advice out there but only one way to get representation in a court of law; GET A LAWYER!
That's some weird stuff, not giving you a chance to re-name the products you sell before suing you. If a company wants to become unpopular, that's the way to go!
Hope things worked out well for you Marc! You're a good dude!
there was no C&D, I spoke about this in the video
Straight to suit without C&D is a common practice for a certain type of.... business...
Buying a product from the company that sued you... and doing a quick review. Priceless.
:)
I'm so sorry to hear about this legal drama. I hope he didn't bankrupt you. Family owned businesses are really vulnerable to this. I did some research quickly and "the company" has a long history of sureing people.
I will NEVER buy that guys straps, I'll tell you that.
I had no idea this company existed. After watching this video I went to some of my favorite strap providers and found that many use generic terminology like double-pass and single-pass, some use the term NATO without the trademark, and some use the term NATO with the trademark. It seems like this company may be selectively enforcing the trademark and will also let you use the term NATO if you pay them a license fee. Crazy stuff.
I'm guessing that's correct.
Marc, thank you for this video. I purchased one of these a while ago and didn’t realize I gave money to a company that has no respect or decency. So sorry to see that they chose to go after small businesses like yourself. I am still proud to always support your business and sorry to hear you went through a lawsuit versus them sending you a letter first. Thank you for this educational video!
Either way, appreciated the comparison and education and love your company!
Thank you Marc, fine vid as always!
Marc, you are amazing for putting this warning out there to try to help others getting caught out.
Really clear explanation of the differences between the various terms and what they apply to.
I guess I have to accept that I have never worn a Nato strap, despite the fact that I was wearing them long before this trademark nato guy came along. Can he sue me for thinking they were nato straps? I told my wife they were nato straps… damn, he’s made a liar of me!
Very interesting. Thanks for sharing, Marc.
Once again, thanks for sharing. Your experiences are very educational for everybody.
I appreciate that!
That sucks Marc, an unfortunate event. Glad to hear business is still well after the lawsuit. I am surprised that You’ve never heard of G10 NATO’s Brand from any discussions with TGV.
I love My NATO’s and Islander’s. Digging the new releases as well.
Well, that's a company I won't deal with. Thanks for the always informative video and your sensible reaction.
I'm surprised the name "Nato strap" is trademarked, I see the term used for one-piece straps everywhere.
me too
Ron Sabo can't completely protect his trademark everywhere. His goal is to attack the low-hanging fruit (established online sellers). It's about getting easy money, not any sort of moral imperative.
@@thenexthobby I believe that if you do not enforce your trademark, you lose it, so he may lose his.
Before it was J and O bracelets....now Marc has added the N-Strap. Are there any issues with ZULU STRAPS? 😆
actually Zulu is a registered trademark of Maratac (last I checked)
My issue with Zulu straps is the insane price and shipping cost 😅
Thanks for sharing as always my friend Wheels Up and Be well 👍
will do, thank you!
Very interesting Marc.
Love the candidness here! But more importantly, are those hoodies landing in the shop anytime soon? Looks awesome!
LOL, just for us over here. They are too big to stock.
Man you really have to walk a tight rope out here in the watch game you must have the patience of a saint to deal with this type of nonsense love your STAP you always have high quality stuff and I appreciate that.
Thanks for the heads up Marc! I'll be sure never to buy the trademarked N-strap.
noted!
I see what you did here, Marc. Well done.😉
So sorry this happened, Marc. Sheesh.
Great video response, though. Props to you.
thanks so much
In the UK military they aren’t listed as NATO straps either, but as ‘ strap, wrist watch, nylon’. They are supplied by the thousand in military grey from a company called CWC. So really the title’NATO strap’ is just an invention and not the original name. The company that gave you a hard time certainly doesn’t supply the UK forces anyway and are kinda pretenders themselves to an extent. Wise words from you all the same 🙌
Bummer to hear man and thanks for the heads-up! I see a lot of places using "nylon" instead of "NATO". Maybe they had the same thing happen. I guess the revenue they might get after the legal cost is worth it. Business must be slow selling these. I'll make a note to never patronize them. Just because of their nasty way of dealing with someone unknowingly infringing on the name. They must get a kick out of playing the Monopoly game and someone landing in jail.
thanks!
One that always tickles me is when people say "hear it over the tannoy" for a public address system. Tannoy was just a particular manufacturer, or "do the hoovering" for vacuum cleaning. Glad you got everything sorted Marc.
one way to mess this guys' case up is for average consumers and public to use the nato term so much it's commonplace use and cannot be trademarked. like xerox/photocopy, kleenex, and a few others if I recall.
interesting, thanks.
Surprised they started with you as almost every watch accessory company in the world sells a “NATO” strap. As always, thanks for sharing your experience.
I'm not quite sure they "started" with me, seems this has been going around.
Seems like they could lose that trademark if someone had the wherewithal to challenge them. The term NATO strap is ubiquitous and hardly anyone knows of this "official" brand. This may be a case of someone using litigious means to bully others hoping no one will go through the expense and trouble to fight them in court.
Challenge them on what grounds? Just curious what your legal basis for that challenge would be, given that they applied for and were granted the registered trademark as it relates to watch straps.
it's being challenged, actually. Has been for years, just takes alot of money and time, neither of which I desire to spend for an ancillary product I do not sell in bulk and has no impact to my bottom line.
@@waltwearswatches3056 Generic terms are not supposed to be trademark-able. It's entirely possible the part of the government responsible for granting the trademark did not know a NATO strap is a generic term for a type of watch strap.
It would be like someone trademarking "Ball Peen Hammer" or in more watch related terms someone trademarking "Deployant Clasp" or "Sliding Buckle" and threatening to sue anyone selling those types of products under those names.
@@islandwatch Good to hear. I didn't mean to imply it should be you personally who puts up a legal fight. You must pick your battles after all and this hardly seems worth it unless you're a big NATO strap seller.
@@waltwearswatches3056 Marc, Yes! In fact I was under the impression that this had already been successfully challenged! 😮
My understanding is that you can't trademark a term that's already a common term. If you could then people would be copywriting everything.
I'm surprised you were unaware of this situation as I've heard Tristan mention it on several occasions.
Not sure how much it cost you? But, maybe you could challenge the trademark?
I find it kind of hard to believe that someone could trademark it in the first place? Sounds like some government sludge didn't do his due diligence! 😢
If NATO was a term the guy had made up, that would be one thing, but he clearly trademarked a common use term. He really doesn't have a legal leg to stand on! 😢
Marc sorry this axehole sued you instead of asking nicely. But in my years online this is his M.O. The NATO Strap guy is a real axehat. YOU on the other hand are not. You rock! Thanks for getting more of this info out there. PS for everyone else the BEST NATO straps I have ever seen were NOT from the NATO axehat, but rather from Bertucci. Sheck them out. Real quality there. (And yes I am using the term NATO strap because I am a person, not a seller, who uses the common terminology for my kleenex, xerox copies and NATO straps.)
Thanks for the recommendation for Bertucci. Will give them a try.
Suing my boy Marc first without issuing a cease and desist letter makes me for sure not want to ever buy their official nato strap.
LOL
Sincere apologies for my misspelling of your name in the past, Marc. Thank you for the information presented in this video. Be well
Wonder if this company have gone after omega, for selling a n*t* strap....... doubt it what a lousy horrible thing to go through, i will be buying seat belt straps from now on. Cheers Marc as always a great video without being to down on a bad situation a true Gent.
I can’t believe that someone could trademark “Nato”. It is similar to trademarking “Shakespeare”. It boggles the brain.
Ugh! Well I know where my next “one piece nylon strap” is coming from, Long Island!!! Better deal, better people!
Good video, Marc. I'm more of a fan of the James Bond-style single-pass nylon straps in any case. To me, the single thickness is more comfortable than the double thickness of the NATO-type straps, which makes the whole watch too thick.
I've never understood what the double thickness of the NATO-type strap adds to the security of the watch. If the spring bars break, the watch is still going to fall off the strap.
I would like to see you increase your inventory of single-pass nylon straps instead of these.
The single pass straps are referred to as “Zulu”.
and I think that might also be trademarked. 😂
having a 2 layer strap, puts less tension on the upper layer to which the watch is on. I think that's one of the reasons.
@@comyf5986the second layer strap is to keep the watch head in place from sliding on the strap when the strap is worn loose, or when worn over a sleeve (which is why nato's tend to be longer than regular straps)
LOL, Marc! Well played, sir. I propose renaming your straps, "Ney-tow."
Very interesting. Two of my favorite watch strap companies, crown and buckle, and clockwork synergy, advertise them as N@TOs. They must pay a royalty for that.
Marc, sorry to hear this happened to you. This is very unfortunate and sounds more like this individual is trying to make money the wrong way! Pathetic.
Classy.
stay classy!
@@islandwatch You certainly did. You have a good ethos going on there.
I like that you add a dramatic pause when you say it 😂
OMG 🤣 lesson learned.
So sad that they went straight to lawsuit. No wonder I see so many videos mentioning how they can't use the name when describing the band.
Thanks for the clarification.
Oh, and so sorry for misspelling your name in past comments, Marc. 😮
Good video, thanks.
In videos, can you call it a Nylon NATO-style strap? Or a a 3-link Oyster-style bracelet?
no, cannot use the word at all
@@islandwatch Bollxx! I just made a video for a Seiko Mod, where I called it an Oysterflex-style rubber strap with foldover clasp.
Yeah I’m guessing his business isn’t doing too well so he’s gotta make money by lawsuits. That’s trash imo. I think Marc has done wonders for the watch community as a whole by offering quality at an affordable level so I have so much respect for him.
Well, that entity just lost another customer. I've been buying from them for a few years - for the same reason as others have noted: I have a larger wrist & I want more than 2 adjustment holes left + enough strap left to fold over.
I'll just start buying more leather straps and other materials/styles elsewhere.
That was a completely classless BS move. Clearly, ethics is NOT a part of their business model.
Surely they should serve a cease and desist letter. I appreciate that you may not want to talk about it but to me the name Nato strap is so ubiquitous that surely such a trademark should expire.
didn't happen unfortunately.
Do actual quality difference exist between the various "single piece nylon straps" out there? Where can I buy the good ones?
'Nato straps' as we know them were created created in the 1970's; around 72/73 by the British armed forces. There were canvas straps before then but they weren't natos.
Call them “N Word” straps and watch all the drama that starts 😂
Just call them “North American Treaty Organization straps”. I hate trademark trolls.
I love that idea.
same issue. . . trademark is a funny area
Well, I'll not be buying any International Watchman, Inc. NATO straps, that's for sure.
noted!
He might earn some money from suing you, but he just lost a lot of customers. I tip my hat to you, Marc. Nicely played.
seems like the guy is dirty enough to be friends with dirty enough lawyers to do this kind of legal scam.
That hoodie you're wearing. You should sell it. Id buy one
Oh hell nah. I do not support companies like that. I do however support your company and the awesome bracelets you make for the Duro, Orients, and Seikos 🤘
I wonder if there is a Natow strap?
Marc - any plans to sell swatch corp brands like Hamilton, Longines and Tissot?
Was I the only one who tried to wipe my phone screen from the speck on the video? 😅 Great video and very informative. If I'm looking for NATO straps in the future, I know which company to stay away from.
I was wondering why most of the nylon straps were nowhere to be found 🤔 pretty slimy move on the trademark holder.
Perhaps it's some bad timing, but any news on when the rebranded nylon straps will be up on the site?
That NATO strap is okay but I sure prefer your one piece nylon strap that definitely isn’t a NATO strap
thank you
Hi, on another subject, can normal public purchase one of those kewl hoodies that you have on in this video? I'd be interested!
We had them specially made for us. The problem with hoodies is they are so large and take up space.
K... Fingers crossed for sometime in the future 😊
Yea I sold some natos on Etsy and this guy reported me. I’m sure he has a very sad life. Honestly I feel sorry for him
I love that the video is REALLY about what jerks NATO International are.... WOW :D - I like Leather Zulu's, so much so I taught myself how to make my own which then led to coming up with The Gladiator Watch Cuff... Not for everyone but pretty bitchin'.
Love Marc's videos....!
No wonder lots of sites are saying ballistic or nylon strap instead.
yup
You know what Marc I'm going to order a whole lot of straps from you brother. I hope it covers the cost. And I don't even use straps on my watches. 🤣
This is ridiculous. If there were to be someone owning the trademark it should be NATO itself, as in the military alliance. I am sorry you had to go through that.
no worries, all part of business.
Could we call it a G10 style strap without legal issues?
not legal advice, but "style" doesn't save you
They won’t see any money from me, that’s for sure!
Gary from 'I like watches' has been warning people about this for a long time after he had his TH-cam channel deleted.
That’s a shame he went straight to a lawsuit. Oh well. People will be people. Glad it was worked out!
So if I’m reading things right although the term NATO has been used for 50+ years this particular company decided to trademark the names for themselves in 2015. As the term was first used with British MOD were they recipients of payment for the consequent use of the term ?
That is upsetting enough not to spend my money with that company if they didn't even give you the opportunity to comply to a Cease and decess letter.
I had caught wind of this from a lady who was marketing her watch straps using NATO as well. The guy basically sued her out of business. I’m sorry he caught up to you Marc. He’s suing anyone directly who uses his “trademarked”name.
OTAN is a spanish acronym of NATO.
Island N4t0 Strap, LNS™ 😂
LOL
Faith in humanity is really hard to maintain...
you may want to use the term OTAN strap. Same meaning but in French...
They can shine my Zulu's buckles.
This guy may have trademarked the name but the straps known as Nato were originally made to specification for the British Ministry of Defence in 1973. They became known as Nato straps because like all items used by military forces of the North Atlantic Treaty Organisation they had (and still have) a stock number used by those wonderful guys in the military stores who supply all the needs of the operational forces. Every item from a toilet roll, a watch strap, a rifle, an item of uniform, or whatever else has such a number. I'm amazed that NATO or the trademarking authorities let this pass. Guys sounds like a real snake!! I'll make sure that whatever Nato straps I buy in future won't be "official" ones. Thanks for the heads up!!
I now see Marc hands!!!
So what happened to the North Atlantic Treaty Organization?
I have several of their straps that I ordered years ago off ebay, mostly 18 mm for my SNK807. They were cheap, nothing spectacular. Now that I know what big DBs they are, I will never order anything from them again. I hope they didn't take you for too much.
don't worry, I'm just interested in doing the public service message
I'm not a lawyer, but it amazes me you can squat on a name that has been used for a long time in that specific purpose. I wonder if you can trademark Oxygen?
Thanks Marc. Perhaps spell it N.A.T.O from now on?
What a fantastic way to jab at the guy that sued you. What reputable company doesn’t sell all their product on eBay vs a regular storefront!😂
not a jab, just an observation.
Sounds like the "nato" person found a legal loophole and is doing a shakedown.
seems so
I find it ridiculous that somebody has trademarked "Nato strap" for such an old product that everybody use that term for. Its like me registering "Rally Car", now nobody can call their rally car a rally car...
you got it
Ha! From the thumbnail, I thought it had something to do with a water hose. Wishing that was actually the case!
LOL
This is insane. Could you just use G10 or MOD? NOTO?
Wow, I thought it would have been a better strap. There are some nylon bands out there that are better quality and have better holders than that “original nato” band