The Winners and Losers of The Boys Season 4
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 5 ก.ย. 2024
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The supes are back. And so are the Boys. But which plotlines thrived in Season four and which missed the mark?
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Wait til Nando realizes her name is Grace Mallory.
I love a reviewer who can't be bothered to do a Google search
@@dairyking6514I mean clearly he kind of just discussed what was on his mind, so looking it up might ruin his train of thoughts
@@dairyking6514not in this channel, the other one is more well thought out
This channel is a lot more off the cuff and kind of stream of consciousness as opposed to his other channel where its scripted out and researched
@@dairyking6514 it doesn't matter that much
I really like the "Medusa" theory for Ashley. The metaphoric/actual face-off between "Medusa" and "Poseidon" would be fitting.
I’m all in on Ashley as Medusa . Its very fitting to the story and would be a great b side story
Yep!
I think she will be like a five head big brain character is more plausible.. the whole premise of her running off and taking v is because she has knowledge that can damage homelander and the 7
I really liked that theory too! It's possible Sage will map on to Athena as well. I've seen Homelander compared to Zeus a few times as well, maybe even that will be part of it.
@@camlop8635lol sounds cool but to make it out of that building she will need high offensive abilities plus it’s too much telekinesis and brains with sage going around lol
As far as Sage goes, the writers actually talked about how difficult it is to write the alleged smartest person in the world when you are fact, not nearly that smart yourself.
I think they did a decent job with her character, but I definitely agree they should have shown us a little more about how she impacted the events as they happened.
Was at least pleased to see that she left her book but it did do a lot of heavy lifting
I liked what we saw early on with Sage, with how she agitated at the protest and it was all a part of a plan to set up the Starlighters. I felt like this set up her character well, but I think a little more of this kind of thing later on in the season would've been good.
I believe while she's based on Margaery Tyrell (Game of Thrones) and Lex Luthor, I think the writer take notes from Light Yagami in Death Note.
But, I still believe her motivation is closer to Margaery Tyrell, as she wants power over people. While ruthless, she's not as destructive as HL.
I see that Sage is using HL by gaining his trust.
I won't be surprised if she becomes POTUS and Vought destroyed by the finale. This doesn't mean it's bad.
"it's difficult" so they didn't even try I guess.
@@rustinweiner2568 Spent all their time writing jokes about lobotomized butffucking I guess.
To Sage's credit in terms of her plan being visible to the audience, I feel it was pretty clear she knew A-Train was the leak when she told him "that footage didn't just run itself out of crime analytics".
that's foreshadowing at most, and without a plan reveal in the finale it is meaningless.
@rustinweiner2568 Well let's add the fact she hired the doppelganger as well, she instigated the first riot of the starlighters and hometeamers... everything she did was one the heir of subtlety. Would it have been easier to pick up in a montage sure... but Sage definitely orchestrated things this season
omg i didn’t catch that. so good!
@@aandrelogan3430and she repeated the same words as the guy who threw something at Ryan when she instigated that riot.
@@aandrelogan3430 you are making no sense, she instructed the shapeshifter to delete evidence and kill Singer both of which would have helped Vic survive and kill The Boys not the other way around, like she apparently planned for, the more you think about this the more holes you see in her "plans"
and let's not talk about subtlety, she was in person in that public protest that was being televised days before her joining The Seven.
despite the stupidity I kept hoping they would tie everything together in the finale but it got even more incoherent and totally shit the bed, this shit is so transparently bad y'all are delusional for defending it.
I feel like people keep forgetting that everything didn't go to plan for Sage. It just ended up where Sage wanted it.
the worst part of smart characters is:
if the character is written to be intelligent, they'll be too intelligent for most audience members to understand or see.
And if the character is written simple enough for normal audience members to understand or get her motives, the character will feel too simple and unintelligent for who they should be.
A smart person doesnt need to control every piece of the board. They just need to account for any possibilities, or things not going as plan. She didnt know how nueman would die, but she gave the boys the tools to destroy her(and nueman the tools to destroy them).
Nueman dying and the boys taking the fall(with singer), was the plan sage was feeding the boys the whole season.
Nueman dying by butcher's tumor powers, instead of the one dose of virus, would be considered a curveball. Still in her favor, but it works out still because that virus is only strong enough for nueman, not homelander.
Would have been good to have her plan in that book she purposefully left behind, and show Homelander reading it and realizing how her plans effected what happened with The Boys and The Seven.
@@Nehesi Yeah I was wondering where they were going with that. They shown her throw the book on the table and nothing came after it.
I hate when we have this super smart character, but most of the important things that they did is left off-screen, and then at the end they claimed "It's all according to my keikaku" (keikaku means plan in Japanese)
@@uzii6540 not yet at least. We gotta wait for phase 2
As a cancer patient, everything with Billy and Kessler worked for me. Knowing your time is limited does have this kind of nihilistic and misanthropic effect on you. Billy's "mission" got him to that point, and this is carrying him the rest of the way.
Man I really hope it goes into remission brother. Crying reading this.
Glad to see you resonated with parts of the show, really hope that you pull through bro
Hope everything turns out alright man ❤
Prayers for you 🙏
As a guy without cancer, your cancer doesn’t give you more insight on death. Kay thanks, bye
Laz Alonso didn't just shave his beard, he also lost a lot of weight for health reasons. That why they wrote him not eating enough into the show.
I need to rewatch this season cause his appearance threw me off the first few episodes, and by the end he was my favorite this season.
@@calebgonzalez599 he's my second favorite character on the show
I legit freaked out when Big Sausage attacked him I thought he was gonna die
@@Chuck_EL poor MM, that slap was crazy
Wish they had written aging by 15 years or so in Starlight 🙊
@@pearlosibu she didn't even look that bad in the show. Get over yourself
Things I was expecting:
1. Realising Mallory is Grace's last name
2. Spotting that the cancer in Butcher is an allegory about his attitude towards Supes, and him taking Compound V to come back at the end is all a part of that.
Wait he took v again at the end? I know frenchie said that but that's cause he doesn't know he just has a symbiote tentacle monster that's
he took V before the season, which is why he warned Hughie not use it on his father.
He didn’t take compound V this is the same compound V that he took to try to help himself after the temporary ruined his brain, and then that turned into a tumor which he’s now able to use the V from
that wasn’t V he was holding it was the virus syringe
@@ProjektTaku
I had a theory that the reason why Neuman was trying to be friends with Marie in Gen V was she was gonna use her as the scapegoat for all the head poppings.
Guess that's not happening.
I doubt it. I think she genuinely cared for Marie like a daughter as she was basically a mirror to Neuman’s life
@@peamut547 Bro she literally only saw her one time. WYM "cared for Marie like a daughter" ??
@@NewYorkLover22 Sorry. More like a sister I would say due to their similar circumstances in life.
@@peamut547 WYM by sister? Marie ended up imprisoned in a shady place with no Neuman in sight. Oh, wait, that's what sister does...
@@NewYorkLover22 I think the other commenter meant just as in sympathizing, not that she was literally her daughter. More like she reminded Vic of her daughter & herself, so she could have a soft spot.
I feel like the minor character acting MVP is Tilda Swinton as the octopus. I can't remember her name, but that death scene was absolutely brutal, I had a really hard time watching it, which feels like a crazy thing to say. Tilda Swinton voice acting as the Deep's lover octopus being suffocated from the other side of the door while the Deep listens. Just brutal, and so well acted for such a small part.
Tilda is ALWAYS the MVP!
I know right? I had the same impression of her acting too. Awesome work.
My girl and I were dying laughing to that scene it was so over the top lol
The Deep > The Peak > The Beak
Her voice acting was revolting in the best way possible
I think the dad plot line for hughie was actually supposed to mirror his relationship with butcher. Basically he is watching two male figures who act as role models (one for the better and the other for the worst) in his life dying. He isn't able to let go of either one, but when he tries to hold onto them it makes things worse for everyone. I think next season hughie is going to have to let go of butcher for good too.
I think the initial conversation between Sage and Homelander is the real set up to her plan. Homelander specifically mentions Julius Caesar when Sage talks about sweeping in to take power from chaos. Sage isn't just getting Homelander into power, she's also setting everything up to eventually take him down.
Ryan killed both of his mother figures, my boy gave himself mommy issues. I don't quite know how to feel about him, specially when we're in countdown to the finals.
I mean, his daddy has mommy issues and Butcher has dad issues too.
It's like poetry, it rhymes.
Cut him some slack. He loved his mom. He thought he was defending her. Didn't mean that one. And "Aunt Grace'?? He asked her nicely several times before he pushed datazz through a wall.
I feel like that blast didn’t even kill Becca, stormfront already dug her nails into her neck when she was choking her, and stormfront is the only one who’s burned but I get what you’re saying
Generational trauma fr fr
I think a big part of Sage’s plan at the end of the finale was just getting the speaker of the house on their side so that they didn’t even need Newman. Sage probably realized that Newman isn’t all in with Homelander, and she knew Homelander did not like that Newman kept her powers a secret, so Newman would be easy to throw under the bus, thus getting the speaker of the house on their side became the key fallback of her plan.
So it wasn’t like her setting the stones but instead she made key observations and was able to dip out the episode while the plan still worked out.
@nuvjoti it did look like in Tek Knight’s mansion that neuman and sage would team up
@@Seasonal-Shadow_4674 I think that’s where Sage realized that Newman needed to go. Sage isn’t ready to betray HL yet
her writing was Sherlock levels of bad, and I'm seeing Sherlock fandom levels of cope in the comments, I'm thinking sometimes audiences deserve the slop they get.
@@rustinweiner2568 they deserve it for other reasons too
@@nuvjoti I've been saying this. That read sage gave and talk made her understand that Vicky is shakey at best.
I want them to hire a game theorist to help write for Sage in the next season. Like, I want her actions to be above my head, but then be able to understand it once the pieces are laid out for me. Genius ish, yo.
Matpat coming out of retirement for Season 5 Sage writing
When Lobotomized, Sage has an unquenchable urge to solve FNAF
@@andrewmannson7543 a good theory. A film theory.
Shoutout Nando for making grace mallory 2 different people 😭
Do not mess with the boys fans, we do not watch the show
The thing that absolutely kills me about the war on Christmas musical was that they got legitimate Broadway stars to record that campy little song.
I absolutely loved A-train this season. The scene in front of the hospital with the kid is probably one of my favorites in the whole series. A-trains little smile, like he finally realized what being a hero means, just felt like a really special moment and I think it worked so well
I am annoyed that no one is talking about how Homelander didn't hear "Webweaver" when he snuck in with The Boys speaking in his ear and they kept showing how well his hearing is
His hearing is good when the plot demands it. He doesn't hear any of the A-Train and Ashley stuff in the tower, either, despite spending pretty much all his time there.
That’s something I noticed too. Honestly, there are a couple moments where Homelander misses things. You could def say it’s inconsistent, but I think a good explanation would be he’s too distracted with everything else going on. Just a few episodes prior he realized Hughie was in the vents bcuz a drop of his sweat landed on him, but at Tek Knight he missed the Boys entirely. I think it’s because he was too occupied with everything going on to pay attention
@@CJWproductions right!?
@@jaylanthompson yeah I thought of that too but I don't buy it. I think that was poor writing. Which, in all honesty, I love this season particularly
I feel like his super senses don't work all the time, like he has to actively use them, otherwise he will be hearing everyone and everything all at once and that's will definitely be useless and will drive him crazy.
i wasnt a huge fan of how annie reacted to the shapeshifter situation after she escaped. annie knows how the shapeshifter had access to her memories and her thoughts, and that makes it extremely hard for anyone to tell the difference, including hughie. not to mention that he was manipulated into bed under false pretenses, essentially a form of SA, and she's talking to him as if he willfully cheated on her. the shapeshifter stole the proposal from both of them, not just from annie, and it kind of sucks that her anger is seemingly only directed at hughie.
You gotta remember that ultimately hughie slept with the person who kept her locked up and tortured for 10 days. Was it hughies fault? Of course not, but does Annie have a right to be upset? Also yes, and I think even Hughie understands that
@@NC-jc8wj not really? the shape shifter assaulted him. he didn't consent to sleeping with her, he consented to sleeping with Annie. he's a victim here too, and I don't like how Annie doesn't seem to notice that
@@comp.lex4 She couldve been more considerate of hughie, but I still think she was justified in feeling how she felt.
It’s an outrageous situation that’d never happen but imagine if you’d been tortured by someone for 10 days straight, and after de-gloving yourself to get free of your torturer you find out the person you love had slept with them roughly 20 times. Whether intentional or not just the fact that it happened is painful. If I was in hughies shoes, id be upset that she was blaming me, but id still think she was justifiably upset. Both can be true. Relationships are learning to forgive 101 and that’s all that happened… she let it out on hughie and then quickly forgave him.
I'm glad she snapped out of it in the very next scene. Her shock is understandable but I would hate it if the drama carried on to the next season
Hugie knew there was a shape-shifting assassin out. Then, all of a sudden, his girlfriend starts behaving way out of character, being more sexually active, proposing, wearing the outfit she said she hated, wearing a ballroom style dress.
Annie is 100% justified that Hugie couldn't tell the difference.
Hugie is also justified to be hurt that he got SA again.
I don't think Sage knew how everything would go, but I think she was able to pivot easily. I also think since she is the smartest person, she has lost all hope in humanity so she doesn't have much (any) empathy.
She even mocks Homelander, Homelander realized "Oh shit, she's good" that explains his tears, no one really was able to break him without breaking him like her
Probably the funniest line in the entire show for me is when Noir says “what do you mean lobotomizing herself?” to The Deep 😂
"that man is in no condition to fuck a sheep!"
Agree, MM was defo best member of The Boys this season
I love that guy but his ex a bit toxic
She uses his love for him to control him to doing her favours then gaslights him to feel guilty
I believe there should have been a scene between Newman's death and Sage's return where Homelander takes Sage's notebook and realizes that the plan is unfolding as planned
@federicomatintuc It’s funny that the only person we know that read the notebook and was impressed by it was Tek Knight
@Seasonal-Shadow_4674 I bet that's why Tech Knight invited who he did, and why he said that "I smell a team-up" line in front of who he did
Homelander exposing Neuman was BAD but exactly what Sage needed to happen. Singer is hugely opposed to Supers, so Neuman dying hours after her reveal was the final nail on the coffin for him. What's really concerning is that Sage anticipated that.
I really like how they continue to circumvent audience expectations of who is going to kill homelander. From Soldier Boy to Ryan to Butcher it always feels so natural and engaging. It almost reminds me of how no one ever really knew who A was in Pretty Little Liars but just wayyyyy more effective!
I guarantee the person to kill him will shock us. I still think starlight will be a key player and we haven't seen her completely come into play with her powers yet.
Perhaps Sage is playing the long game and will have a hand in his demise - perhaps putting the virus into Firecracker who then passes it to Homelander through breast milk. Possibly weakening him enough for someone else to finish him off.
@@CousinCreepy that’s such an interesting idea I didn’t even think of!!
@@CousinCreepy I was thinking that too what if she already put the virus in Firecracker and that's why she's sick ?
Also Sage told Vicky she has knowledge on viruses when trying to cure her grandmother of cancer
And after Sage was shot and she was basically acting high and drunk she playfully crack that table in half when she fist pumped to Homelander with the cake so she's capable of fighting a weakened Homelander
Perfectly make sense
@@Chuck_EL Exactly! I don't think Sage would be above it - she does seem to express contempt for all of them and does like a challenge. Maybe she's been working for her own self interests all along.
So I'm seeing the Sister Sage critique everywhere. The notion that she gets the "all a part of my plan" mustache twirl just cause-- Big Brain.
And yeah, that IS cheap and lazy.
But there is ONE critical detial that i honestly believe everyone missed-- >
- her notebook.
When Homie fired her, she threw down the notebook. They focused on that shot. And everyone thought it was Maeve that was being foreshadowed.
This is wrong. It's THE PLAN. Sage says "good luck without me" and tosses THE PLAN on the table.
Homelander was following the playbook. Everything he did in episode 8 was all a big set up. He was following the Sage's playbook.
And this is CONFIRMED in the finale because Sage picks up her book in Homie's trashed room.
Why was it in his room?
Because he took it after he fired her in the conference room.
She set up on the path of his "failure" so she could play out her Xanatos Gambit. And it's THAT part that she keeps to herself.
I am legit convinced that she may have even added a little extra something to Firecracker's titty meds JUST to weaken Homie's connection with her.
Now let's see where she takes Phase 2
Just like Nando in this video, people could only appreciate plot twists when they reveal how the seeds sown on the screen in like some kind of flashback montage.
Also people saying that Vicky's death is part of her plan is like overly simplifying things. She definitely has more than one plan or even if her plan is somehow ruined what makes her the smartest person on the planet is how she could turn the failure that she got into a new plan that works.
@@kanade_alter
We didn't see the specific parts Sage did that she kept to herself, is all. I'm saying that they were keen enough to make it established that highlighting the book was to heavily imply Homie was following it to the letter since last episode.
She said it herself last week "perfect misinformation."
That makes perfect sense because the only time Sage got most pissed off, was when Homelander acted off script, or she, herself, got taken out at Tek Knight's party. She started factoring those variables.
So when he fires her, she moves onto the next Xanatos Gambit almost instantly. By tossing her book at Homelander. THIS is how you manipulate the most powerful supe-- you make him feel like all these awesome ideas are his alone.
"Misinformation," see?
If Sage knows outing Neuman is Homelander's impulse, she will nudge him that way. Especially if she decides she wants Neuman out.
Now, I don't think she concocted Butcher killing Neuman-- that's a bridge too far. But i DO think outing her, forcing her into a desperste corner, getting half of Vought killed off as a result was EXACTLY what Sage was gunning for. She KNOWS the Boys are working on the virus thanks to the shifter. She KNOWS a desperate Vicky will reach out to the Boys. She was likely hoping they would use the virus eventually on Vicky. Butcher killing her so quickly was a wonderful play of convenience.
And even so, Sage had the recording of President Bobby, ready as her other back up. Her contingency became her main play once Vicky died.
For season 5, it can't be this neat of a resolution, but for THIS finale, I'm on the opinion that the notebook was the what we were meant to pay attention to-- NOT Maeve being on it. Or Maeve at all.
@@CERap22 all of this stuff really didn't feel as significant as you are making it out to be.. it's just decently written characters and plots coming together, with an eventual payoff or failure.
try not to over-complicate or overthink it to be honest
I am SURE she has SOMETHING to do with Firecracker’s illness. Letting someone she LOATHES and can’t control have so much power over the nation and HL? No, she’d want FC gone.
I love your theory, it is also why I have a problem with this season's writing. They say Sage is a mastermind, but will use FREE internet commentaries to flesh out her plan, out of the best theories they'll craft season 5, and no doubt it'll be great, but because they've outsourced the plot twist to millions of viewers. Making this season seem better in hindsight.
Just got sent home from work for shitting my pants, and arrive to a 40 minute Nando vid! Gonna prop this up on my Sink while I clean up!
👑
Nothing better than that!
Real
Here's your crown, king 👑
Hell yeah
Antony star’s next role should be some neurotic mousy nerdy guy or something, total opposite of homelander. The iconicness of the homelander role imo puts him in danger of being typecast as the love to hate him smarmy embodiment of white privilege just like Esposito is now type cast as scary authoritarian businessman
He didn't reset Billy. Billy gave the super cancer control of his body.
first time that sentence has ever been said
@@EricDillingham I don’t think it was complete control, otherwise butcher would’ve killed Zoe
@@Seasonal-Shadow_4674He probably didn’t see her as an immediate threat tbh. Victoria HAD to go
@@SuperPianogirl123 the whole point is people are whining butcher is gone and completely lost his humanity when he killed neuman which is bs
@@Seasonal-Shadow_4674true Victoria was an indecisive sociopath she was a loose canon also realistically would you trust her after everything she's done
She also kills with no to little remorse ppl forget what she did in the parliament
That scene with Mallory was contrived because they had all the time in the world I don't know why she was rushing. It's not like they were going to have him go fight homelander after they got out the bunker. What was happening outside was going to happen regardless
100% felt like it was written in last minute
She thought the country was about to end. Her reasons are all there in the show if you watch
@@crudleydrawn you're right plus she's a CIA agent through and through no matter what
Yes she cares for Ryan and Billy but her job comes first
Just like despite she clearly was pissed at Soldier boy for crushing half of Black Noir's skull and even teared up she still killed every non supe to cover that up as that would of been a huge scandal
Yhh bu u don't want him further getting manipulated by homelanders influence.... he was already starting to change nd they were noticing that
In retrospect and as a viewer, it feels easy to view it that way. I think the idea is that Grace thought that if they let Ryan go that he wouldn't come back and that she wasn't willing to take that risk.
From what they've set up, it feels like:
Ryan will super-fight Homelander (probably helped by the rest of the Seven who've become jaded with him)
Solider Boy will depower him (and then probably be the one to recieve the supe virus bullet)
Followed by a big regular person fist fight between Butcher and Homey, with Hughie stopping Butcher before he kills him (probably by bringing up Lennie).
I don't think the rest of the Seven will help Ryan, the Deep is just way too invested in Homelander, Black Noir also just seems to do whatever the Deep's wants to do and Firecracker will be useless. I can see Homelander getting the Supe virus bullet that makes him weak enough that Ryan can fight him, and eventually being depowered.
> with Hughie stopping Butcher before he kills him
I really hope they never do this anime bullshit of "you will become just like him if you kill him".
It is dumb in the DC/Marvel comics, it is dumb in half the anime out there - and it will be braindead dumb in this show considering they have killed random supes/people for even less.
@@thisBrian i think its bette rif he doesnt kill him, a de-powered homelander would be increadibly fun to watch onscreen
@@thisBrianHomelanders entire identity is his power, without it he would be nothing and have nothing, that is a fate much worse than death. So i would be surprised if they DIDNT do that honestly
@@ProjektTaku here me out: 3v3. Ryan, Starlight, A-Train vs Homelander, Deep, Black Noir
I wish we got some line from Sage to help make her plan more plausible. Like something along the lines of, "I didn't know EXACTLY Butcher would kill Neuman, but I predicted that Neuman would want out, and one of the boys would probably kill her." I feel like that would've made the scene more tragic.
when did she say that she knew exactly that butcher would kill her
@@ferdricks9361 she didn't, but it feels like EVERYTHING worked out according to plan, and I wish the writers lampshaded it.
Yeah, even an average joe could gather info that The Boys were trying to get rid of Neuman. I wish Sage elaborated that one of her plans was for them to kill her
Annie should absolutely be the one killing The Deep
Justice for MM, he stays getting weird secctual stuff happening to him against his will.
Glad someone else sees it.
What I didn't understand was that Newman was able to withstand a bullet to the head, acid in the face, and heat vision from homelander, but not Butcher's tentacles? Idk, it bothered me for some reason.
19:15 you missed the main point of Sage then - she might be the worlds “smartest person” (whatever that even means) but her true genius lies in how she is able to manipulate people - she figures out what makes them tick and uses that knowledge as leverage to have power and control over them.
this scene where she comes back is how she manipulated Homelander and made sure that he will never make another move from now on without consulting her first - it cemented her complete control over Homelander bc she figured out how to emotionally manipulate him the right way bc keep in mind, Homelander hates people who manipulate him.
Every season, Homelander constantly feels angry that there’s no one he can rely on or depend on in the 7 to get shit done, especially when everything goes wrong (he’ll say things like “fine i guess ill have to do it myself”).
It ties into his childhood trauma where he never had anyone to rely on but himself (hence him always looking for a parental figure - a mommy OR a daddy like Stan Edgar). This is what Sage picks up on with her intelligence and has the sage insight that using this fact is her best bet to manipulating Homelander without him rebelling against her or resenting her - by fulfilling one of his his deepest desire and emotional needs.
Sage showed Homelander that he can rely on her to fix his messes and that he doesn’t have to always do everything all by himself bc right at his lowest moment, Sage managed to convince the government aka the president why endorsing Homelander is in their best interest and how everything that was happening was according to the plan. Hence her handing Homelander the phone with the speaker of the house aka congress on the other line is tangible proof to Homelander that Sage is who he has been looking for all these seasons.
At all his worst moments and when he f*cks up the most - people either leave him, turn on him, fear him and thus try to manipulate him (whether thru compliments, threats, booby milk or s*x) or they just criticize and berate him but they don’t give him a good solution or help him figure out how to fix (except Stormfront such as when she helped him fix his public image which was why he “loved” her)
So Sage doing the complete opposite ensures that from now on, whether he loves it or hates it, Homelander will do his best to obey and listen to Sage. she got him in the palm of her hand - well as much as that can be possible when it comes to a narcissistic sociopath like Homelander.
So yeah sages true brilliance is her ability to manipulate others and her showing up telling Homelander that not only did she still honored the terms of their deal even tho he turned his back on her but also, while he was hopeless and had given up, she had fixed his mess and came up with an even better solution than anything he could have imagined.
Idk how I feel about sage being the “smartest” person in the world (bc there’s so many types of intelligence and metrics to measure it) at least this episode, she managed to outsmart Homelander and get control over him which most people end up dead or in hiding by the end of the season when they try to do that.
This was a brilliant summation of the interpersonal dynamics between these two characters! 👏🏿
I really like how the Sage character insists on being called the smartest person alive. It gives great insight into her character. She is arrogant and racist. She's also very adept at maneuvering through changing landscapes.
I think the writers were a little too subtle with Sage's REAL powers because so many think she's some mastermind who can predict the future. No. I honestly feel like a lot of stuff happened without her say-so and she had the audacity to claim it as part of her plans while capitalizing on key opportunities to progress her final goal. If that's true, I love that they made her devious and opportunistic.
It's also interesting that they haven't made her character into a parody. I wonder which superhero she's meant to mirror.
I really wish they explained why Vought didn't just kill the Boys at the very end. It's always been some kind of mutually assured destruction from Season 1-3, but at the end of Season 4, they've got nothing. What's stopping them from just removing the Boys from the equation?
Intel. The only boy they didn’t catch was Butcher, the only one who Homelander truly cares about. He learned his lesson last time from killing someone before he could squeeze all the valuable data out of them, I doubt he’ll make the same mistake again.
There are basically two ways to play a character like Sage:
(1) Bend the fictional world to fulfill her will leaps of logic and to make Rube Goldbergian plans work.
(2) Make the character bend to an internally consistent world, doing mental judo in a way that requires them to have brilliant insight.
I think 2 is way more compelling, but unfortunately I think Sage is a clear example of 1. She's really under-developed, and her plan kind of "just works." It could easily have not worked if, for example, Butcher just didn't assassinate Victoria. She feels convenient and lucky, not smart.
Even her dialogue is pretty bad. She's supposed to be a 30 year old woman and also the smartest person on the planet but talks like some 14 year old edgelord who just got into politics on reddit. The best way to write smart characters is to make them really good opportunists who are smart enough to turn bad situation into an opportunity. Ironically enough, they did this really well with Homelander in season 1 where he turns the flight crash into an opportunity to get supes into the military.
If butcher doesn't kill Victoria they kill her and the speaker takes over anyway. Its a win win.
Did anyone else notice that MM was wearing a “Dead Prez” shirt in an episode about assassinating the president?
every tshirt that he wore, all season was like totally brand new out of the box. seemed like they just bought a ton of hiphop shirts and were like "yeah put this on"
but yeah you have a point on that one for sure ^^
Two Americas
I’m calling it now, Ashley is going to have a hair related power, and maybe become this shows version of the Hulk, so she’ll be a big Harry Hulk lol
She'll be this universe's The Leader. She's already the figurehead of Vought, she lost her hair and her head was bulging.
I saw a theory that's she's going to become a Gorgon like Medusa. You could say The Deep is Poseidon and Sage is Athena as well, so that may figure into things later.
@@levischorpioen you also saw green skin started to show up too
Maybe she kills Homelander 😂
Idk i bought what Sage was selling. She set up the starlight riot. She gives firecracker extremely personal information about annie, knowing it would push her over the edge. She knew atrain was the leak like when she talked to him in the expo episode. She hired the shape shifter, giving them what seemed to be the assassination attempt. But im like 100% sure was a red haring to get singer into the bunker. She gets fake annie to record the whole time she's in the bunker. And she knew that homelander would do what he does without her and fuck everything up. Its also not unreasonable for her to realize neuman was all in with homelanders plan in the slightest. Butcher killing Neuman expidited what was probably going to happen anyway. Hell at the end, they knew where the boys would meet up. She was in control at most parts of the story until the very end. And she showed that she could read people pretty well.
Firecracker’s breast milk will play a part in killing Homelander. Somehow she’ll get the virus and pass it on to him.
What Nano's pitching for Sage is exactly what they did with Ultra-Humanite at the end of the last season of Stargirl
It feels like the Gen V cast and the Boys cast both ended up being kidnapped by Vought and they'll likely end up in the same holding facility the next time we see any of the characters.
I think people are overplaying sages plan. All she needed was to destroy starlight support (which they show well), get evidence of the president elect giving the order to kill nueman (not impossible) let the boys kill nueman (which was thier goal grom the start if the season), and get support of the speaker, which they did. Plan B was have numan as president.
None of that really involves ryan, the cia or even homelander. The onky thing that would have saved them is hughies idea of doing something completely different, which sage wouldn't have expected, and get nueman on side
8:50 I don't mind where characters regress, ideally we would like people to get better, but sometimes they just get worse
This is so important to remember, especially with Frenchie’s plot line.
I’ve seen many people criticise it for being “repetitive” or “character regression” but progress is not a straight line; you’re going to experience set backs and challenges.
@TheBestSam42 I can definitely understand why people would feel like nothing is happening or we're recycling stuff but I feel this stuff is much more true to life
@@juanperret7044 it does seem hypocritical when people want characters to be human, realistic, and relatable, but get mad when characters regress as humans do regress too
@Seasonal-Shadow_4674 I think that a slight problem with critique is when people only understand things half way. We use character development and progression as compliments too often without really going into the merits of how it was done and if it elicited an interesting emotional response. Like in this case Butcher's return to form stings all the much more because like Hughie we wanted to believe he could be better. I actually think this is what Hughie's dad dying was about. He needs to learn how to let go if he should need to not be loyal to Butcher in the future
@@juanperret7044 if butcher was that far gone he would have killed Zoe
A-train's scenes with MM were the peak for me. It felt like they were mutually pushing each other forward. I hope we get more of it and MM saying he's proud of A-train at least once before the writers kill one or both of them.
Yes, not really elaborating on Sage's plan is an example off screen writring. The correct way to present how something was execuated after the fact is presented in BCS, where the detective that Saul and Kim managed to replace and, who then manipuated Howard. "Plan and Execuation" is the name of that episode, a perfectly named episode.
Or you could use the example of Kaiser Soze - after the plan is revealed, then you can see all the pieces you missed along the way, when they were in plain sight.
Hughie was treated absolutely awfully by the writers this season. SA of men played for laughs yet again. You'd think the Boy's writers would know better
Especially how mature they were about the Starlight/Deep situation in S1. I'm not against the Tek Cave scene, I just wish the writers gave the same care for Hughie. In fact, after the episode, Hughie, the characters and the show itself immediately forget it even happened.
SA is okay when it happens to Men
Apparently
🙄
I agree. This is the thing I think that bothered me the most.I really would have expected some glimpse of an arc for hughie at least in the end of the finale where he's ready to call it all quits after being SAd multiple times this season.
It's even more ironic considering they had a whole scene in the season pointing out how right-wingers don't care about Firecracker being a pedo because she's attractive and SA against men isn't taken as seriously sometimes, yet the writers thought Hughie getting SA'd was hilarious and Annie, a SA victim herself, blames Hughie for getting r*ped and Hughie has to be forgiven by her.
I felt like MM’s actor losing a lot of weight actually made sense for MM. the amount of anxiety and stress he was under can cause people to either overeat, drink, or lose their appetite causing them to lose weight. With MM’s panic attacks, it makes sense.
I like the Butcher stuff. He tried to do the best thing possible. He was looking out for Ryan in season 3, the Boys didn't really forgive him for it. He found out about the virus (and its genocidal properties) and they assumed the worst of him even when he came clean about it. He tried to go easy on Ryan, but Mallory ruined it. Nothing he tried worked out, in no small part due to the actions of Season 1 Butcher. So, since no one can really shake off S1 Butcher from their heads when they look at him, he might as well be S1 Butcher and save himself the trouble of trying to be someone different.
It's not that Sage predicted everything in advance or made everything happen, it's that she has backup plans and can easily adapt to new situations.
Thank you! People are so used to mega geniuses who consistently jump the shark, they don't know how to recognize someone who actually knows how to manipulate any given situation to make it work for them
This is going to be one of those seasons where the more time passes, the more people will come to love it.
That’s because it’s necessary set-up for the endgame. I’m guessing seasons four and five (and Gen V) will make a cohesive whole.
Season 5 will make it better
Makes me feel guilty that I think Firecracker is so hot.
The actress is a very beautiful woman
@DylanMadd I mean it’s the same thing with Soldier Boy, having an attractive/likable actor or actress portray despicable, abusive and bigoted characters can make a difference
Don’t be. Was can be attracted to someone we KNOW is awful, just focus on how hot the ACTRESS is, not the character.
@@jonbodhi i agree i find the actresses that play Ashley, Victoria, Sage and Firecracker hot
@@jonbodhi Hell I'm still attracted to Amber Heard
It wasn't about him letting go, it was about him learning forgiveness. Hughes arc was realizing that A-Train and Neuman aren't monsters just messed up people with powers, which was a good arc for him considering him and Butcher's temp V shenanigans.
This was a filler season, but for all the good reasons. They finishsd up all the character arcs for the final season to be distraction free. They eliminated loose ends, entrenched character motivations and locked in the trajectory of plot.
I was so bummed when the initial upload got taken down, glad you got it back up so fast!
Its Grace Mallory. You were right both times 💀💀
The showrunner was asked in an interview if he'd consider The Boys a hopeful show and he said yes, followed by something along the lines of "it'll make sense in the future."
For more Gen V tie in I think it could be neat if Kimiko or any of the other Boys end up being held in the same prison as the Gen V characters and they have to team up to break out. Kimiko makes the most sense bc I doubt they would house supe and non-supe prisoners together
Butchers story made alot of sense. He has always been wishy washy. Through the first 3 seasons we always do something good and then he follows it up with something bad like an episode later and I think that was cranked up to 10 this season.
I also think it intertwines with Hughies plot line of learning to let go and make hard choices because he’s definitely going to kill Butcher next season.
I get the feeling Ryan is gonna mainly be on his own not being with Homelander or The Boy's in season 5
I geel like they should have had the shapeshifter turn into Annie way earlier and we just get really subtle scenes of Annie being 'off'. They would have to be really subtle (because we all saw through Kessler) but that could have been part of a Sage's super plan montage, as we get to see previously seen moments with Annie now re-contextualised as we know it isn't her. This would work particularly well if the shapeshifter didn't automatically gain their copy's memories. Fake Annie would have been on recon to learn not only about the boys and their plan but also learn who Annie is to best hide as her.
Billy's met and allied with so many supes that it felt really weird that it reset him, especially when he's sort of a supe himself. And it's especially weird that he killed Neumann because he MUST have known that would have made the country take a turn for the worse.
The cat tail being immediately after mentioning Love Sausage was perfect
30:23
i think i sort of agree with him not doing other superhero roles, going out on top.
i hope he can spread his wings after they take out Homelander when The Boys ends. I wouldn't want him to get type casted and not get to do stuff outside the crazed corrupted superhero role.
I think of Sage as this universe's Sherlock Holmes with superpowers and it works for me. I do think a flashback would've been beneficial.
Something I didn’t realize until watching this video.
The Shapeshifter ripping its skin off to change forms is likely a reference to the show runners past show, supernatural, as the Shapeshifter monsters in that show also transformed by ripping off their skin
Nando is spot on about the need to show Sage putting the pieces in place for her plan even if just in flashback. It's such a lazy villain cliche for her to turn up at the end and claim "it was all part of my plan". It's a cop out on the part of the writers because they can have anything happen as part of the storyline but don't have to justify how the pieces fit together.
Sage literally explained that she couldn't tell Homelander everything cause he would fuck it all up cause hes dumb
, she told him just enough for her plan to fall into place cause she knew everything that would happen. What's confusing about that?. People are just looking for a reason to hate he show now.
@@Ash38122it’s not confusing but it is lazy writing, they didn’t put in the groundwork to justify the reveal. They need to do more than just ‘it was my plan the whole time’
@@Ash38122That is literally the writers saying that to the audience. That’s telling, not showing. If they had shown her making contingencies against Homelanders fuck-ups, then it would have felt earned. You could say her chatting with Newman was a contingency but it didn’t read that way? It felt more like a genuine moment of relation, rather than covertly convincing Newman to take the reigns of the speech in tek-knights party.
Really weird to have Huey SA'd and graped and make him the one to have to apologize for it lol.
Not to mention, Annie, out of all people, just assumes in their discussion afterwards that Hughie could not have felt like he was violated.
He almost died and didn't even have time to process how he felt about the past 2 weeks, but let's all just assume Hughies views on sex are as shallow as The Deep's, because men trash or something.
I can accept the possibility that Hughie doesn't view it as being SA'ed, but for Annie to just assume that without Hughie even bringing up the possibility seemed like a huge straw man, so that they can shove in yet another woke trope that "men only want one thing".
I’m lowkey believing at this point that Sage is going to end up on top somehow at the end of this series. Everyone will be dead, and she will have all the control behind the scenes.
For anyone else who loved Derek Wilson (Tek knight) I can’t recommend the show “Future Man” any harder. I saw him in that first and fell in love with how unhinged he is in it. The whole show was extremely underrated and was even one of the shows that Disney and Hulu scrubbed “due to budget cuts” last year, like what happened to westworld. But you can still buy episodes or find it online. It’s very worth it. Also it was written by Seth Rogan and Evan Goldberg.
Also adding that it has 3 seasons and an ending. No cliffhangers thank goodness 😅
40 minute video on the boys? We eating good today/tonight
U have a very poor understanding of Sage dude. She wasnt behind EVERYTHING, that would be ridiculous. She got fired but she kept true to her word and the plan, mad a few adjustments, choose not to go with nueman because she thought she wouldnt stick and she also knew that honelander would probably fuck up their alliance, so she found a way to position him as the hero. She didnt even fully expect it to work cuz she'd never tried to use her powers in such a way, but it worked, because yea shes smart dude.
Yeah but those are things literally anyone could predict with the information Sage had. She is smart, but I kinda don’t buy that she’s the smartest person on earth. That said, it felt like, towards the end, they were writing her more like a Joker/Lex Luthor character, which feels more fitting. She’s had plenty of speeches indicating how little faith or empathy she has for others and humanity in general, much like the Joker.
So Sage knew Victoria would get killed or that the president would openly incriminate himself last minute and be caught on camera??
It's not that he has a poor understanding, and that's the show did a poor job explaining. She just pops out of nowhere at the end, says "This was the plan," and that's effectively all the explanation the audience gets.
@@TheNwr1you gotta remember she's the only one saying she's the smartest person in the world. It's just a sign of her arrogance. Even HL knew how to play her. She's very smart, maybe genius, but not smartest person alive. She's very adaptive and emotionally intelligent. Those are her real super powers
@@dahliaherrod4301 Nah, I’m not taking that away from her, in the same way I don’t deny that Homelander is faster than A-Train. She’s the smartest person alive. The writers establish the powers, and you gotta suspend your disbelief of them, because you have to accept it for the story to work. That said, we see scenes demonstrating the powers and (typically) reinforcing the premises they operate on. With Sister Sage, if I can’t trace her plan back and fully understand where’s she’s coming from, either that’s a flaw intentionally written in (which is kinda lazy), or she wasn’t written well enough to convey that. It breaks suspension of disbelief because we don’t get shown the manifestation of her super-intelligence in a way that is distinct from, just, a smarter-than-average person.
Also I love that I didn't need subtitles to recognize what every "bro" meant
Nando you look exactly like the actor who plays tek knight
The best part of this video is Grace Mallory
Sister sage mentioned parts of her plan all along the season, like saying she knew A Train was the informant and things like that. She also spoke her endgame in the very first episode: To turn homelander someone who rule "like Caesar". Most people (like homelander) didn't noticed what she (actually he is the one who says, but she don't correct him) meant with that, but you can google what happened to Caesar ;D
I'm glad to see A-train make it this season.
Kamiko and frenchie are basically rogue and gambit and I love it
I really want to see a spin-off showing Sam and Kate and how they deal with not only their trauma but the consequences of them aligning with the Vaught Supes and Homelander.
I like to think that sage wasnt really in control of the plan a lot of the time, it kinda seems like she only came to homelanders side at the end was because things worked out where she had the best future on his side, I think she positioned herself so she could have went the other way if things went south. I think it makes her more seem more intelligent than if she had every little detail perfect and saw everything coming
Season 3 finale contributed a lot to this season feeling like a filler season because we went right back to Season 1 status quo there was no progress.
They should've ended Season 3 with Homelander getting blasted by Soldier Boy and getting heavily weakened. Maeve being the one restraining Homelander thus sacrificing herself. She gets disintegrated but Homelander just gets wounded and collapses on the floor.
The Boys go to check if he's still alive but before they do it Soldier Boy tries to kill Ryan but gets stopped by Butcher, they argue and eventually fight in order to protect Ryan. They successfully neutralize Soldier Boy with that gas (MM could also die here to keep stakes high).
Once Soldier Boy is neutralized they go back to check on Homelander only to see him standing, clearly weakened, the Boys can't believe that he survived that.
Butcher, Starlight and Kimiko try to jump him but Homelander flies away clearly struggling to keep himself in the air as the Boys watch him now knowing that he's weakened and thus easier to kill.
Seaon 4 should begin with Homelander crashing into his cabin from Season 2, figuringout and struggling with the fact that he's wayy weaker now and can be killed by the boys so he injects compound V to keep boosting his powers just like A-Train did in Season 1.
Unfortunately that's not the ending we got so Season 4 should've focused on these 3 specific plotlines in order to progress the story and not feel like a filler season:
1. The Boys trying to figure out how to kill Homelander.
• Butcher is locked in as he's dying
• Trying to get the Supe Virus from Neumann to use on Homelander
2. Homelander and Ryan's Relationship. With a LOT more screentime so it hits harder once Ryan leaves his father.
• Homelander teaching Ryan how to use his powers (Flight, strengh control, heat vision control, etc) and actually enjoying it
• Homelander struggling to know how to deal with Ryan's emotions as a father
• Homelander struggling to mold Ryan's morals because of Becca's upbringing
3. Homelander plotting to control the government with Sage's assistance.
• Neumann alliance
• Engineering a civil war
• Send heroes from The Seven to kill The Boys
That's it! No Frenchie or Hughie subplots. Focus on those and you get a good season that builds up to the final season.
A great season. I think this season may have been the weakest, but the last episode and a half really saved the season for me and was definitely the best finale of the series
The sex stuff in the house SHOULD NOT have happened to hughie during the season as his father died.
Should have been Frenchie no doubt 💯
I think people would still be mad as frenchie's gay so it would been "problematic"
So glad to see this back up! Excited to rewatch 😂💕
For me the plotlines just didn't connect very well this season.
I truly thought the plot would kick into high gear after episode 4 (the best one by far), but it never felt like "holy shit, now shit's getting serious". Every time I thought we would get somewhere it just seemed like we got side tracked and the momentum died.
Ryan killing Grace was just sort of left as it is. I don't even think we saw Ryan after that, which is really a shame as the whole season his story was about whether or not he would turn bad.
I absolutely loved the fake Annie story line. She acted so well in those scenes, but I feel like it should have been a longer plot than it was.
All in all I'm pretty disappointed with the pacing and overall story of this season.
I Highkey feel bad for Hughie this season, he got SA’ed multiple times this season and either people responded jokingly or someone like Annie was upset that he slept with a fake Annie
I hope the final season is redemptive for him
For I'm pretty sure firecracker is infected, not sure who would have done it, but they'd have to be a pretty smart person.
What do you mean you know the show is like not a good show? I disagree with you heavily man just because it’s a parody and satire does not mean it doesn’t work as an actual show, we don’t have to undermine it
That was the thing with Neuman, she was steered by Giancarlo D'Esposito but also protected by him. So when he went to prison she aligned with Homelander for survival's sake and out of fear. But without her "father" she was lost and afraid.
She shouldn’t have given Ryan to Homelander
I dunno if it's just me but all I've seen of The Boys review/analysis is just moans and nitpicks.
It's a great show and yes this season had flaws but it was just as solid as the first three.
I feel like everyone's a critic but they're taking it to a cynical level instead of just accepting that it is what it is and we should just be happy we got another installment.
It’s definitely not as good as the previous seasons lmao. Not even the writers think that, I’m pretty sure
Lastly, the farm scene made no since to me. Why didn't they just send kimiko out there, wait for the virus to work, and then come out. She'll regenerate, we've seen her come back from being dang near eviserated
The end of the season was pretty good. But I feel like you’re understating why people had a problem with the Tech Knight episode. Yes, The Boys has always depicted fucked up things. But never before have they tried to play off SA as one big joke. Our main character is literally about to be rap**d and we are supposed to go haha isn’t that funny. The fact that Hughie doesn’t express any trauma from those events afterwards really understates the impact experiencing something like that would have on someone. Some people are probably gonna call me a snowflake or whatever but I thought that episode really crossed a line and the way the creators have talked about it feels really insensitive.
Im more with the ashley will become like a genius 5 head type character..the whole premise of her running off and taking V is bexause she has knowledge that can damage Homelander
I wonder if Sage had any part in bringing Hughies Mom back into the picture, but it might just be a coincidence she works for Vought.
Maybe Sage was trying to break Hughie’s spirit, the one morally good character in the Boys group.
Butchers regression is definitely my biggest issue with the end of this season and I definitely feel like he is just falling back into hating all supes and they made it seem like he has given up on caring about Ryan in the last episode after he killed grace Mallory and just walked away like it was nothing in another example of being incredibly out of character and making me dislike the show more now.
I would legit watch an entire prequel spinoff from the perspective of one of Ted Knights villains trying to take down Ted Knight.
Tek-Knight noticed Hughies heart beating fast from across the room but didn't notice the WEB HOLE missing from Hughies back as he's pretending to be Webweaver...?