Do Better, Bike Radar - Sarah REACTS
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 11 ก.ค. 2024
- This video is my first, and potentially only, “react” video on this channel. I felt compelled to discuss a recent video posted by Bike Radar as I felt the tenor and tone of the video did a disservice to the cycling community. I gave a lot of thought as to whether or not I should even do this video, as I have seen how toxic react content can be. I ultimately decided to record it, as I truly believe I have thoughtful contributions to make to the discussion and that the counterpoints were worth making.
I am not interested in ginning up drama or negative engagement, but rather create a more nuanced perspective than I believe was produced by Bike Radar. I would love to hear your thoughts below!
The link to the Bike Radar video is here: • Indoor Cycling Is Bori...
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0:00 Intro and Disclaimers
3:11 About Bike Radar
13:09 The Breakdown
9:15 The Big Problem
23:10 My Meltdown
47:00 Closing Thoughts
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Hi friends, there seems to be a couple of small visual and audio glitches early in this video. I don't see them in the raw file, but it must have happened in upload/processing on the TH-cam end. It's not worth re-uploading because it doesn't really detract from the overall comprehension and may just work itself out. I'll report the bug to TH-cam.
Also, I know this is a long one. This video really doesn't require full attentiveness to the visuals to get 99% of the context. You can probably have this one on in the background or audio only which may make the time commitment a little easier 😉
Never noticed any glitches. Good content trumps technical difficulties.
Did not notice any visual glitches, but there were several audio glitches where it sounded like there was a secondary audio track. For like a second or half a second. Definitely did not take away from the great content though! Thank you.
I ride for fun. I don't have a training plan and i'm happy with that. I prefer free riding in zwift because I can do it any time i like.
We should not look down on any rider just because they aren't trying to optimize their fitness.
If your riding a bike then your doing it right. Everything else is optional. There is room for us all regardless of what we are trying to acheive, how big our ambition or ability.
And this comment is the TLDR of my video. Especially when it comes to Zwift. It's a wider demographic than TR on purpose. Sometimes people just want to be fit and healthy. I've seen many people get stupid fast just "riding around aimlessly" and fast can be fun! Maybe Bike Radar thinks riding should be boring, I don't 😉
feast one's eyes on a brick 😅
I’m the same. Came off Zwift & started Rouvy
Agree, Bike Radar comes across very machismo suggesting the only real training is done staring at a blank wall, where one can create a proper training space. Sounds like someone needs to work on their focus, stop bashing one app to make another app standout. I read the follow up info on where Bike radar basically plagiarized “Jacks” original article on training. Pitiful content.
Sorry about the use of quotes.😂
At 56 years old, and a past road and mountain bike racer I can say Zwift has been an amazing opotion for me. I'm late to the party but I am experiencing the benefits and challenges from indoor riding. The immersive nature of the platform keeps me coming back for more. I use Zwift and my Whoop to help me along my fitness journey. Typically, this is the time of year I put weight on with less than ideal weather. Not anymore. Do I look forward to riding the road? Absolutely. I will be curious to see the transition once I do. Until then, ride on! Thank you for your insight.
I would say that some of the time I really enjoy riding on the trainer, especially if I am feeling fresh and want to really attack a tough workout. But most of the time, I do it because I know I *need* to in order to have a respectable level of fitness and ability to enjoy good weather riding in the summer. It's nice to have the variety provided by Zwift to maintain engagement and add a little motivation through challenges, accumulation of miles, and so on. I think a lot of VERY talented cyclists, including many pros, value Zwift because it ADDS value to their training. I have not lost hope that eventually TR and Zwift can come to the table with an integration (not an acquisition) that will allow riders to combine the best of both worlds.
My name is Linda and I am a ridearound aimlesslyaholic. Ok, long winded comment alert, but your video was spot on. First of all, thank you for all the work you put into creating this video. Let's just say, to sum it up, it appears this guy "doesn't know Jack". If I had seen the Bike Radar video on my own, I would have watched it for the first 5 minutes and then switched it off as soon as I heard him say "ride around aimlessly". It would not have affected me in any way except that this guy is clearly a conceited elitist minded asshole (uh, like I used to be), click, moving on. But in my younger MUCH less mature cycling days, sad to say, had this video existed, my desire to be elite and to be accepted in the cycling community would have won. Without even trying Zwift, I would have probably poo pood it, even going to the extent of being snobby to people who did use Zwift, even though my personal training was about as consistent and powerful as a dead snail. In fact, coupled with dietary changes, riding around aimlessly on Zwift has allowed me to shed over thus far 60 lbs, connect with some awesome people I never would have otherwise, like you, Sarah, (you were the first person I told about adopting Brian) and enriched my life in ways that programs like Trainer Road never would have. If I want to do structured workouts I do have the ability to do them on Zwift, albeit Trainer Road may have a better focus in that area. I do have an objection with people and channels who consider themselves influencers, affecting a company's ability to thrive or not. On local Facebook pages all it takes is one person to say something bad about a restaurant instead of going directly to the owner with their complaint. That can affect an entire family's future. If that can happen in a small town, so much more so with an influential channel putting down a large company who employs hundreds of people. Where he talks about riding outside and connecting Trainer Road and all you need is your phone, instead of connecting with and seeing people all over the world, isn't that what he's doing here? Isn't he connecting with people all over the world to talk about structured cycling in order to make an income? And okay, yeah. I have created an environment in my bike room to totally immerse me into Zwift, so much so that there are times during intense rides where I forget that I am not that avatar on the screen. Guilty as charged. But we can use trainer tables! How mighty white of you🤣🤣🤣!!! Totally agree with your assessment. Well done.
You really are a great ambassador for the cycling community, especially the virtual one. You've likely made cycling feel accessible to more people than Bike Radar has on the whole of their channel because you share your journey and ideas from a place of curiosity and passion. Your point about the power of Facebook points is a great one, I focused on some extreme examples here, but we can't forget that if you get a group of like minded people interacting directly, a groundswell can be created. In the same way, one bad apple can spoil the bunch. It's a great way to think of the community of cycling as a whole. It's not mainstream enough to breakdown into subgroups outside of cycling discipline, but it's large enough to have "curb appeal." For a long time, it was all about the roadies and if you weren't in, you were out. I was so fortunate to be introduced to cycling by a very inviting group in my local area and got into racing that way. I never felt judged, but I can't say that I never submitted to the slight urge for true roadie status by having the latest and greatest in gear. Shit, when I bought the Garmin Vector 1 pedals when they came out, yes I was interested in getting into power, but there was probably 20% of that driven by some status signaling - I was serious about cycling and had the 4 figure pedals to prove it.
To be fair, that element will never go away, that's how society is driven, but to feel like your ticket to the dance is a series of arbitrary rules driven by a few elitist snobs holding on to the old ways is absurd. It's 2024, enough is enough. Figure out what the right size of cycling is to you and there should be a way in. If you want to be a national champ, then yes, maybe you have to go all in with extreme training, the best equipment, and all the marginal gains you can get your hands on. That doesn't mean you should judge the average Joe that wants to ride 4-5 hours a week so he can stay active and be comfortable running around with his kids.
I don't care what the apocryphal Jack says, I will go to my over the top Zwift setup now and ride happily with no brick walls in sight!
@EverythingIsPhotogenic in my living room on a stand is my original Columbus tubing, all Campy Record bike with a frame that was custom made for me by a gentleman named Fernando Cuevas. I even helped him file the lugs a tiny bit. It was the best you could get at the time, except if you went for Campy Super Record. It didn't make me one bit faster but because I had the road bike and the equipment I was "in". Now I cringe🤣
@@ZwiftingWithGranny "conceited elitist minded asshole". CONCEITED!!! That was the word my brain was looking for but I couldn't remember. You nailed it!
I love your channel for your content. But I also love it because you’re incredibly articulate, measured and have an ability to effectively argue your position with absolute clarity. You are refreshing. Well done.
Thank you so much! It does present a challenge these days with so many people wanting the "bottom line" for even the most complex issues, but I consider myself to have found a regular audience in this channel community that appreciates context and detail, even if it takes a little extra time.
The whole video had the vibe of a TrainerRoad ad. Most riders simply benefit from riding more, and what better way than doing what they enjoy? Not everyone finds ERG workouts and blue bars engaging.
While I don't think it was a direct ad, I do have to wonder if this was an attempt to engraciate themselves to the TR team to maybe sniff around for a sponsorship? It was definitely a little sycophantic to TR to say the least... and this is coming from someone who has a great deal of respect for the backbone of the program despite it's less than exciting "curb appeal."
i rarely do structured workouts or programs on zwift, i often ride around aimlessly and for maybe 30-60 minutes after work its a really nice mental escape from a stressful day and i get some exercise. In general i'm dubious of anyone proclaiming "rules" around cycling.
Long live aimless riding! I've seen people change their lives and their health jumping onto social "aimless" group rides daily or near daily. Can't complain about that!
What he was realy saying is that he does not have the mental strength to control his competitive nature on Zwift doing a structured workout. He also loves Jack.
I think that's a great summary to the video! 😂
Totally agree! I was one of those guys spinning away on my rollers in a cold garage 40 years ago when I raced. However 3 years ago I scared myself with how dangerously out of shape I was, and I decided to get back on the bike to get moving and get healthy again. Zwift was the most compelling platform for me to be consistent regardless of weather, and I fell in love with the creativity of the worlds, group and pacer rides, etc. I’ll never be a competitive racer again, but I ride (14,500 miles last year on Zwift) with a lot of people like me, as well as a lot of people that are rehabbing an injury, etc.
building VO2 max or FTP is incidental for most people whereas being active and generally healthy, and occasionally challenging yourself is our primary goal.
The most important part of Zwifting for the majority of us is healthy FUN. That is very much NOT being aimless.
Absolutely! The first world has plenty of options for entertainment, and while they are all enjoyable and have tremendous value in helping people to relax and enjoy their lives, most of them are taken to excess and don't promote healthy lifestyles. I know in the US the rate of obesity and sedentary lifestyles continue to climb, and the shift to knowledge work doesn't help matters. We don't need to live like monks, but if we can balance out some of those activities with those good for our health, we should! Not everyone needs to be an athlete toeing a line for the next race, not wanting to age and breakdown prematurely is a pretty great objective as well! If exercise can be more fun and less of a chore, seems like a win to me! But I know Jack doesn't think so.... Ashley said as much 😂
I'm a little beside myself watching Bike Radar talk about indoor training . It's like the person in a pouring rain storm you offer an umbrella and they would not use it because they think it would make them look soft. I started out on RGT(Rip & only bots riding around). When I tried Zwift the thing that amazed me that I liked, was I liked knowing other people were out there suffering with me. Recovering from an interval it's actually fun and distracting to look at country flags, names. Thanks for making this React Video, apparently Bike Radar thinks staring at a grey concrete wall, with numbers hand written on a piece of paper, and using an old wheel on mag trainer would be the ultimate setup.
Thank you! It's kind of funny, the more I think about it and talk with people in these comments, the more I think the video is just a bizarre move for them! They don't spend any real time publishing videos in the training space, and the few they have really didn't land with their audience... if they wanted to stoke outrage, just talk shit about someone's beloved bike or head unit... that will get people fired up and it's in their domain!
@@EverythingIsPhotogenic I also want to give you a long overdue thank you for all of the Zwift Academy videos you have done. I've been riding indoor trainers since the 90's, not many people will remember this even when you google it there isn't much information but, I used to ride a Schwinn Velodyne which is the grand daddy of smart trainers, I bought it used from a bike racer friend of mine in the late 90's, that was before computrainer, tacx, the two rides I used to do on the old lcd screen were the coors clasic, and the 1984 olympic road racing course. The reason your videos are so great is even though I used to race mtn bikes, triathlons, before the internet, other than reading books, training for me was riding up the local canyons as fast as you could. When I replaced my old 2010 Tacx Fortus, a couple of years ago with a Saris H3 I couldn't believe how much trainers had changed. I started with RGT because I wanted to import GPS gpx files so I could ride my canyon rides and just ride as fast as I could. Zwift is pretty awful at introducing people to the platform, I tried out Zwift Academy Bike, and I enjoyed the workouts but they seemed kind of all over the place. That's why I'm really grateful for your videos, it gave me an understanding about them being all over the place(some kinda easy, some too short, ...), and then I looked through all the old Academy workouts and you can see they used to be longer in general which you covered. The TLDR is you were part of the gateway to me starting to train smarter, both on bike and run, and the majority of my indoor training are now workouts because it's so controlled. You videos definitely cover something Zwift themselves should do a better job at, I didn't even know what the little screens were in front of peoples bikes were because all I did originally was free riding up Zwift climbs.
Exactly my thoughts when i stopped watching that video after a couple minutes…couldn’t even finish it. I think this was a great reaction video, thanks!
Glad you enjoyed it!
More immersive.more motivational
I think that's the majority opinion, for sure. But some people hate it... The immersion crowd doesn't tell people they are doing it wrong if they are on TR... Bike Radar should return the favor 😉
I feel like either this guy is being disingenuous for the entire video, and just wanted content or he’s nowhere near as dedicated to cycling as he claims to be. I tell folks all the time, “Zwift workouts can be as customized as you want them to be, even synced from your coach through training peaks”.
I feel very similarly. This video feels like it was intended to drive some sort of engagement around its divisive nature. To your second point, the fact that he brings "Jack" in so often makes me think that maybe if people "crept" on his training career/Strava profile, he would lose credibility. I didn't go as far to dismantle his "resume," but it's an interesting thought.
Go Sarah! All points completely legit and sometimes absolutely hysterical 😅 ..I love your summary on the life and stuggles/outcomes of the full time YTers , advertising etc.., that is exactly my thoughts too.. very enjoyable video all around .
It's interesting because these were things I wanted to talk about in general, but this channel isn't really about that. The commentary fit in perfectly here.
I use TrainerRoad to control my trainer resistance, but i ride Zwift to track my distance and give me some goals to hit on the platform.
That exact setup accounts for at least 50 % of my riding. The ratio might be 80-90% in the winter and 10-20% in the summer, but it shakes out to at least half my time using Zwift to approximate mileage and for a little change of scenery for longer rides.
i trained two years on a non-smart "hometrainer bike", just watching tv and trained to get fitter for my first mtb marathon...result: after 10 weeks i stopped that because i lost the motivation. It was soo damned boring. I stoped my training and waited for spring.
now i do roadbiking and i love my wintertraining in zwift. it's always fun... you can do climbs, zone 2 rides, races, intervall training... Motivation is the key!
Right! They are all just tools in the tool box. If anything, the most diligent training "junkies" in the space start to run out of motivation the deeper into a cycle they get... if fuffly kittens and balloons help to get their leg of the trainer, you better believe they will fill their room with fluffy kittens and balloons!
Good response video and you make several good points. For me majorly live in one thoes areas it unsafe to ride at times day due to the amount of traffic that has to get through morning/late afternoon, road conditions, or weather. Can get around that by driving the bike then park, but rather not as it just adds to the traffic when reducing it should be being done. About mid fall to spring is outside season unless the few storms blowing through. Summer is just warm to hot with many heatwaves which make outside dangerous for health. Do plenty of free rides on zwift for endurance and push on rollars, terrain resistance changes, or climbs and recover on downhill. Flat is is mostly steady or recovery depending on the day. Other rides are just recovery. Agree zwift training plans are not the best over not adjusting to progress or other life factors better better then nothing when needed.
I have so many subscribers that have less access to outdoor riding than I do, and Zwift is such a powerful tool for them. As crappy as our winters can be sometimes, our late spring into early fall are unrivaled. With the longer days, the only thing holding you back is the occasional thunderstorm. Even our hottest days can be readily managed with strategic planning and caution. But sometimes you just don't want to be outside when it's 85 degrees with a high UV index and Zwift is there to take up the slack. I pay for both programs without pausing and have since 2012 for TR and fall of 2015 for Zwift. The expense is just something I have budgeted for and even during the season I am not using them a ton, they are in my back pocket when I need them.
I think you hit the nail on the head with this one (again). Other commenters have responded more eloquently than I could, so I'll limit my response.
I started indoor cycling on Zwift (only) and did a short training plan early my first winter. I wasn't particularly competitive in the races I rode, and this motivated me to try TR starting two years ago. I do my TR workouts inside Zwift, a practice I learned from you. My favorite thing is to enter a race or a Tour de Zwift or Tour of Watopia ride and do the workout while on the ride, timing the workout so the hard intervals start seconds before the race. I yo-yo back and forth between groups in the ride as the workout switches between working intervals and recovery periods. When I'm doing a particularly tough interval that might otherwise have me bailing out, having the distraction of chasing a group in front to catch provides extra motivation to complete the interval. There's no way I could finish the Z4/5/6 TR workouts if I didn't have the distraction provided by Zwift.
That's so wild! I would do the same thing, especially on my sweet spot and threshold intervals. I would look at my place on let's say a Tour of Watopia ride when I finished the first interval, then I would lose ground on the recovery, then I would see how many people I would claw back on the next interval. Chasing the other people competitively helped me stay on the power, it certainly didn't ruin my workout! It's especially effective on climbs, the flats might be a little iffy if there aren't enough people in the event, but the big events with upwards of 1,000 people during peak hours.... plenty of people to chase! 🤣
@@EverythingIsPhotogenic It's a fun game to play, and it's one more distraction to make those tough intervals go by faster. I find it especially useful when there aren't any instructions from Coach Chad to distract me. Sometimes I even snap a picture at the end of each interval so I can go back and see how many places I lost or made up (I'm such a loser, lol). Last weekend on TdZ I was 344th before my first threshold interval and I made my way up to 190th at the end of my final threshold interval.
Getting back to your video, the point here is that there are lots of people riding indoors, and we all have different psyches and different motivators that get us through our training. Some people are perfectly content staring at a blank wall in their basement while they do a TR workout, but I think most people are not. For those of us who are in the "not" category, a gamified environment can make it a lot easier to get fitter and faster.
Another point is that Zwift is a much more inviting environment for people who are just starting to ride indoors. Think of it as an entry-level drug. I wouldn't have been nearly as likely to start (and continue) riding a trainer if I didn't have the many extra motivators that Zwift offers.
1. If you want to stay in a given Zone use ERG mode.
2. Anything that motivates you will provide benefit.
3. Zwift has people that are there for different reasons, so why criticize those that just want to do “something” to help their health. I don’t do group rides that use fences; however, for many people it is all about being part of the group so they like it. Different strokes for different folks.
Note: I am 66 and have a desk job live in a smaller town with few bike riders so I do mostly solo riding. I start my day at 5:10AM so often use Zwift to get a ride in before light, when weather is bad, etc.. I love Strava to compete for KOM’s and train for those. My opinion is staying on the bike is more important than building my mental ability to be bored so I can stay on plan. I do use ERG mode when I want to stay in zone 2 or strictly follow a training plan.
My 2 cents.
I like your 2 cents, it's a very concise and accurate response to a video that seemingly hand waves away what feel like pretty obvious principles to me.
Hey Sarah, great vlog response to the Bike Radar vlog. All your counterpoints were spot on as far as the critical points of the Bike Radar vlog. The vlog does come across as that "we (Jack and myself) are in so much better shape than you could ever hope to be"....I think a point that should be brought up was that Zwift and/or Trainer Road can and should be used to compliment any training a cyclist is doing. Not just to be used when the weather is in the inclement mode and riding outside is not a viable option (as you mentioned). It would be great if your vlog reply got enough attention that "Jack" came out of the darkness and gave you a Zoom interview....that would be awesome!
SHOW US JACK, SHOW US JACK! Thank you though, I really don't think they understand the purpose of programs like Zwift at all. Nor do they (or he, who knows what Jack REALLY thinks) seem to understand that there is more to the cycling world than the hard and fast roadie of years past. Even the pros are starting to break that paradigm and showing us that they aren't one trick ponies and acting as better ambassadors for the sport. Why BR wants to cling to the 20th-century "rules" is beyond me!
Jack doesn’t talk, it’s kind of a penn and teller thing
Ahhhh got it 🤣 My apologies for being so hard on t Jack
@@EverythingIsPhotogenic no worries, when you know, you know
We didn’t hear Jack from Jack! 😂
Jack didn't seem to know jack about this video 😂
Ive been hit by a couple cars and get really bad anxiety when I'm out on the roads, outside a group or a race. So i am very thankful for zwift which i feel, allows me to enjoy cycling again through its immersive experience.
This gets 🍎🍎🍎🍎🍎… 🙌🏽
Thank you! 😁
I fully value your opinion on the reaction video. As I have reacted with my original comment, in your poll, I will keep it short. Zwift has brought a dimension to my training that I have never experienced in a spinning class or otherwise. I cannot afford to use both Trainer Road and Zwift, so picked Zwift, as it caters for my training style. Winter I train indoors and follow a structured workout program on Zwift. This year the Academy program, has brought a huge jump in my FTP and outside riding ability, which I would not have achieved without its help. With all exercise consistency is key! Just keep going, even when you feel like you don't want to train. Those days the free ride really motivates me, whereas if I only had a Trainer road experience, I would prolly just say nope, don't feel like training. And there I go waffling again, apologies for not keeping it short! 😂😎
I have had the luxury of being grandfathered into TR prices from my initial account setup, so it certainly helps in terms of the financial consideration. If I had to pick these days, I think I might go with Zwift as well. It's just a broader range and allows more flexibility. TR makes the training plan simple and seamless in the absence of a coach, but I believe that I could build myself a solid plan and feed it through Training Peaks or cobble something manual in Zwift. There are also free plans on things like Training Peaks that are a little more focused than Zwift's offerings. I think there are a few plans on Zwift that are decent as well, I just don't like the lack of calendar function to rearrange as needed, you are very locked in. But, Zwift does a lot of things decently. TR does one thing very well. If it came to having to pick one, I think I would take the broader scope and understand the limitations.
You have good points. I use garmin for structured workout. I currently follow a 22-week training-program. and start a 60-minute or a 90-minute free ride and follow the instructions I get from my bike computer.
I use that feature mainly outdoors, but it is a nice one, I totally see a healthy cohort of folks using it. It's less obtrusive and I've noticed for me that I fixate less on the clock during hard intervals. I'm more inclined to look forward and focus on the power which is more natural than seemingly reaching for every second toward the end.
If he can’t resist the urge to pass someone that’s a self discipline and/or ego issue. I use music to keep me focused on the tempo of the workout strategy. Love this breakdown so far!
You are in a very large camp, my friend. People find a lot of strategies to work around it, and it is still hard!
Appreciate the in-depth look and reaction to this video. A couple comments I would make our number one-I would have liked to have heard directly from this Jack, I don’t know the cycling world super well, so I don’t know who that is I don’t think. Number two I think a lot of this is up to personal preference - how much tech you have, Whether you like it simple or complex, and as you said, what you have access to. Personally, I really like having the Companion app to track my ride and a TV or laptop to watch something completely different. I am usually not even paying much attention to the actual Zwift environment unless I am in a group ride.
When you said this was a reaction video, I had to watch the original video first and I believe you're closing thoughts are exactly right. we should be encouraging more people to be riding indoors and outdoors no matter what the application is. I had been on swift for 2 years but had to give it up for financial reasons. But not using a free service now because that's all I can afford at least I'm doing stuff.
Couldn't agree with you more. I joined Zwift because I couldn't take staring at the wall while on the trainer. Zwift provides everything I need. The casual rides, racing and work outs to stay in shape till winter ends. I've thought about Trainer Road but I don't need another subscription.
Great video!! I think this just gave you 5 or 6 video ideas! So while I train and race on Zwift, my wife does not. She has MS and is unable to ride outside with me. So we ride together on Zwift. Many times she jumps on and goes directly to Repack just for the mental stimulation. After that she probably looks like one of those people aimlessly riding around. Where as she is just doing anything she can to continue her physical activity. Anyone on a bike getting physical activity is a good thing. If they eventually get outside and ride, that’s fine, but not necessary. Keep up the great videos. Like I said, I think they just gave you many ideas. Let’s see how many people we can get into this sport.
It absolutely did! I have covered several of these things somewhat tangentially or embedded in other longer videos, but breaking them out into their own subject matter will be helpful for people trying to find them. I'm so glad your wife is able to do something that will almost certainly help retard the progression of her symptoms and do it in an enjoyable way! I know it may be a minority on the platform, but I know there is a healthy number of folks on Zwift with disabilities or illness that have been able to leverage a fun platform to maintain a routine and improve their strength and health. Far from aimless... I don't care what the "banners of the heads of the avatars" say!
Long video - but perhaps your best ever 👍. I agree so many of your points. I can add: I've raced Cat I-III for more than 30 years and have lamented how "competitive" club rides rarely benefit the group as whole. Only a few riders who have the fitness to ride in Zone 2 (that we simply called "base training pace" prior to 2000) get the most from these rides. Everyone else, who is fighting to hang on, may not get the same overall benefit. Structured training with TrainerRoad is one alternative. But so are Zwift with group rides with a publicized w/kg range. You can do effective zone training with some interesting variability. You don't have to chase blue bars - or a clueless club alpha rider who wants to push the pace.
🏆🏆🏆 Kudos for describing how riding "hills" indoors is not like riding hills outdoors. Same goes for riding into a headwind BTW. I would be surprised if even 1% of riders are aware of the difference. You described how the inertia of an indoor bike flywheel makes indoor riding "different". I would add: gravity and headwinds push back when you let up at the top and bottom of every pedal revolution. Outdoors you are forced accelerate slightly on every stroke to maintain a steady pace. Both can be hard - but they aren't the same.
Thanks again for raising the average IQ of TH-cam content.
Really like what you are saying , just looking at this guy's presentation I would not pay much attention to him , the impression is he is above everything on these different apps, he his full of him self , one can use the app that feels good. I did try swift, however I prefer Rouvy, what I found is every season when starting back outside there is a adjustment, I mean the average person does not race let alone compete. They are doing it for fitness, outside you never know who you will meet, the more kms you do will help, anyway this guy is full of himself
I think they strayed too far "out of their lane" here. They are a bike/tech channel. If you are going to delve into this conversation, you better do your due diligence. They got ratioed pretty hard in comments and likes, even before I posted my video, so hopefully Bike Radar as the greater company reflects on that and is more mindful of their contents. I have no problem with provocative commentary or unpopular opinions, I've seen them done VERY well, and I have enjoyed content even that I walked away disagreeing with because it was presented in a way that was funny or thought provoking... this just was a major swing and a miss.
Great video Sarah. Your points were very well articulated, fair and balanced. I got more annoyed the longer I watched the Bike Radar video.
I went back to it today to see some of the comments. One of them said they were no longer going to watch Bike Radar videos seeing as they were one of the Zwift users who seemingly ‘aimlessly rode around’.
Bike Radar responded with ‘it was tongue in cheek’
This is incredibly irresponsible and harks back to your early-made point where more subscribers/viewers means more responsibility. I got no sense of ‘lol just kidding’ at any point in the Bike Radar video. Their reply was the nail in the coffin for me.
I am now going to have to watch my "air quotes" use for the future, great video Sarah.
LOL, I use my fair share of air quotes for sure! I have tried to be more mindful in recent years to not use them out of contempt or judgment and reserve them more for terms that might be used outside of standard meaning, but I am far from perfect. 😉
I'm back to cycling and generally trying to keep fit since the pandemic. I was once a club cyclist/ time trial competitor and I'm based in the UK. Although road cycling in the lockdown part of the pandemic made them attractive especially with the good weather at the time. Consistency became an issue as traffic volumes increased again, together with poor weather and darkness. I bought a trainer / Zwift set up to keep my new level of fitness going.
Although I'm interested in monitoring my progress I'm not totally about that and I need some gaming to keep my interest going.
Yes I'd agree with your view of the Bike Radar video and I have encountered that type of attitude before. Elitism does a great deal of damage to the activity/sport of cycling, it excludes people before they have chance to see general fitness benefits or taking things seriously later (if they want too). It gives a message of it has to be totally brutal and miserable or you are not doing it right.
Exactly, and if this was the only time I have seen this attitude, I'd probably just ignore their channel and move on, but it's a culture that needs to give way to a new era in the sport.
Awesome vid! I must confess that I am a Zwiftaholic. I train indoors (only on Zwift) 5-6 days a week all the live-long Minnesota winter. And my peak fitness is usually April/May (after riding Zwift) and my lowest fitness is September/October (as outdoor season is ending).
I do have one idea that I wanted to pass on about your questioning why cycling does not have the same female participation as other endurance sports even though you concede women are more likely to avoid conflict. I think it stems from how much more dangerous cycling events and races are than the other endurance sports that you list - not that it is the danger that turns women away, but conflict and yelling within the peloton to keep it as safe as possible.
This is something I struggle with in group rides myself. As an ex-racer I usually felt pretty “safe” in a pack because everyone knew how to ride in a group - it was pummeled into us on training rides. Now that I am not racing, I ride with a lot less experienced riders (some down right unsafe) at the same speeds as the races were. I don’t want to be “that guy” who is always yelling at people to “hold your line” or whatever, but I also don’t want to end the ride in an ambulance. Maybe how to balance that might make a good video?
Anyway, thanks for all you do.
You raise an excellent point. I would think women generally oriented toward athletics already have an inherent acceptance of risk, you might get hurt, accidents happen, etc. But I know first hand that even a generally cordial group of male cyclists can get pretty damn aggressive when adrenaline and testosterone gets going on the road. That can definitely push women away as well! To be clear, I don't think when things get punchy or competitive men aren't doing anything wrong with a little jostling or trash talking, that's how guys are wired. But there are a few that even when the peloton is riding well, they feel the need to bark orders and assert their dominance. Shit, the other men don't like that and will often tell them to kindly f*ck off, many women just won't bother altogether.
@@EverythingIsPhotogenic, I agree with everything that you say. But I also know that while there are an awful lot of testosterone filled jerks out there that turn off everyone and anyone (men and women alike), there are also many well meaning people who come across as dicks in the heat of the moment -- but it is because of urgency of correcting bad behavior, not adrenaline or competitive juices. I have ridden with (and been mentored by) guys who I may have hated at the moment (and almost left the group), only to be approached by them after the ride where they not only apologized for the outburst and explained to me what I had done, but also encouraged me. I am grateful for such people who, although their tactics seemed rough, were actually making the ride/race more safe and fun.
So, my struggle now, with group rides, is that I don't want to be "that guy" who is always barking at people, but I also have a desire to have the ride safe. If someone doesn't coach, mentor and/or correct some inexperienced, unaware or just plain dangerous riders that there WILL be a crash, it could ruin everyone's ride.
Anyway, sorry for this rant which is way off the topic of your video -- which I really enjoyed. Thanks for creating such great content and working to make cycling more inclusive!
@@TimTurnquist No apologies necessary, this is a great conversation. I think that group ride hosts/sponsors/etc could do better at teaching and encouraging better ride dynamics and correcting bad behavior before it elevates to the point of urgent need. I think what I see happen is the group starts tight and they get to know one another, they are likely strong and safe riders, but as the group expands, more riders are brought into the fold with an expectation that they "know what they are doing." That's usually a poor assumption so when folks roll up to their Tuesday night group ride, they are jumping into the wild west. Maybe spending one ride a month or something focusing on pacelining skills or assigning new riders to a mentor for the first couple of rides would help. I know no one wants to micromanage something fun like cycling, but safety should be the overriding priority and would help to eliminate "bad guys" in the peloton who are just trying to make sure everyone gets home in the same condition they left!
Oh boy, where to even begin! First of all, you nailed the response. This is definitely gatekeeping. I mean, they make structured training sound like this elitist thing, when it's really not that special.
For me, while I originally got into cycling for the general exercise, I quickly found myself in a team time trial group that does a lot outside of TTT. It is one of the DIRT groups and we have a sub group that organizes two to three times a week to do a pre-selected structured training workout that is shared with the group and we all chat and encourage each other over Discord. Since the majority of us are dads with young children, we can't really work out until after 8:00 p.m. So just having a group of two to six people is super motivating! Without this engagement, I don't think that I would be as motivated to do structured training. Being able to leverage a common platform to see distance achievements, markers for starting and stopping and sharing that with others makes the workouts worth doing, in my opinion.
Another point they try to make is going outside versus staying inside. Well, what do you do if you live in Florida or Delaware and the only hills you can train on are highway overpasses? Or me in Northern Virginia where finding decent, flat segments isn't super easy? Outdoor Zone 2 for me is a very big struggle.
It's just a very myopic video from end to end. Maybe I took the bait in responding, but I knew that people would feel judged. And there would be a silent cohort of those people who would be so insecure as to upend something that might be working for them because the "experts" put out a thoughtless video. To be fair, they did say they were in the minority, but even at the end "if for some reason you want to make your training more fun, click this video." Like why would you want to make training more fun and engaging when we told you how aimless it is?
@@EverythingIsPhotogenic yeah but saying "we are in the minority, but..." is just as bad as saying "with all due respect..." and continuing your statement. 😂
@@richardbarnhill4794 fair!
I love riding outside, but through the winter here in EU for me Zwift (and now also Rouvy) is priceless. I rode Alpe d’Zwift quite often to prepare for an event on the real Alpe d’Huez and it gave me so much insight into the difficulty of the grade and what to expect (especially my gear ratio and power output i need to successfully ride up). Doing the same now through Rouvy to prepare for other epic alpine climbs…
Outside>Inside for me hands down, but the online platforms, especially being able to layer on the immersive ones has turned my winter seasons into something moderately enjoyable rather than a chore!
"We haven't heard jack." LOL
Sarah, your analysis is spot on.
Also: Ashley seems like someone who follows the Velominati rules unironically.
I kept looking for that book in the background! 🤣
Another great video. I too think the more immersive experience is easier to take and helps keep me coming back. Again if you want a trainer road ride fantastic go for it but there is no use in running down Zwift and the people who use it. Your probably correct its just content for content sake. And the Jack thing if it were a drinking game we would have all been drunk. Good work and appreciate your effort keep it up.
Thank you! I am definitely convinced it was a content grab, but I do still think it's weird that it's so far out of their domain of tech and bike reviews that they would think to wander into that! I was REALLY tempted to put a Jack counter on the screen, but didn't want it to come across as a petty dunking.... it was very amusing though!
Excellent video, Sarah. When I watched the Bike Radar video I was trying to figure out what their intention was as it came off as uncalled for snobbery. Don't think they've done themselves any favours. As someone who lives in an area where outdoors cycling is quite dangerous, Zwift has been instrumental in keeping my fitness and, even if it's not perfect, it's a lot of fun. I do bit of racing and love time trials, but it's the social aspect of the platform that keeps bringing me back.
I still don't get it. Later in the day that my video went live, I thought I would wander over and see if the video had gained any more traction in the intervening days... I was actually happy that the view count was pretty stagnant (not to celebrate poor metrics for their channel, but rather limiting the reach of this type of attitude). I saw a few comments that were unhappy and calling out the "aimless" remark. They responded in surprise that viewers didn't understand their "tongue in cheek" remark. I have a very sarcastic and often dry sense of humor and generally know it when I see it... none of that video seemed tongue in cheek. But hey... they're "sorry you're offended."
The balance, I feel, is that after Zwift draws you in to meander around, and you’ve done a variety of routes and workouts, it doesn’t do much to direct you towards good quality training. If you’re just trying to get the Tron/log miles/ beat the Alpe it becomes tempting to bash out tempo for every Zwift session and not everyone knows the limitations and drawbacks of this. I’ve seen your reviews of Zwift’s workout design elsewhere and I think it’s fair to say they could make simpler cleaner (more boring?) workout sessions more easily available on the platform, and drive riders towards a basic quality of structured training within Zwift. I don’t think this would take a significant amount of business away from TrainerRoad.
A really easy example is that I can’t see a single Z2 only workout anywhere in the interface. Sure I could build one (or a few of different durations) and this would be a great way to set my ERG and avoid the pitfalls of riding with a pace partner slightly mismatched to my goals. (And the gaps between pacers might encourage bad habits).
TLDR - it’s on Zwift to do workouts/programmes better and that’s what BikeRadar should have called out.
I think that's fair! The workout function has not really improved (aside from maybe an interface face lift) in all the years I have been on Zwift. I do think there are some zone 2 workouts BUT, the ones I saw were embedded in their base builder plan. And if I remember correctly, many of the endurance workouts are pretty heavy on the zone 3 - likely because the "average Joe" might se a lot of blue as a lazy design. I saw this a lot with Zwift Academy... sometimes I think they did things in the workouts just to create pretty or complicated graphs so the "lay person" doesn't think they are a waste of time. But they have such a large community, taking some time to educate people on how and when different workouts can be used would provide tremendous value. They can have fitness workouts for people looking to get their heart rate up and have a respectable aerobic and anaerobic ability, and they can lean into the structure-first crowd. That's absolutely the video BR SHOULD be making. A community that large may actually get the ear of Zwift!
I started indoor training many years ago on a Computrainer. It was pretty much the OG smart trainer and included a virtual rider that you could use as a pacer or use it to "race" against your past performances. It was a cool system (though very technologically finicky) but the company ended up going belly up. Since then I have switched back and forth between Zwift and TR. I can't really explain why but I just got bored with Zwift's fake game scenery and homogeneous group of virtual riders - I just lost interest. I use TR now because I do need to occupy my mind while being tortured on the indoor trainer so I watch documentaries, movies etc while doing the TR workouts. Maybe that exposes me as not a hard ass rider but it gets me through the workouts and more importantly keeps me more consistent. I think that most beginner cyclists will eventually find what works best for them. There are plenty of competing YT videos done by "serious cyclists" that extoll the virtues of Zwift. Anyway your video is well thought out and I think you got your point across effectively. Count me as a new sub. 🙂
Thanks, Walt! You and I are actually very similar. I missed the computrainer era, but I was on a wheel on trainer with a speed/cadence sensor and a Kurt Kinetic, then I got the Vector 1 power pedals soon after they were released, so that gave me more power feedback, then I had a Cycleops Powerbeam pro which was an early smart trainer that could do gradient resistance I think up to 11% if I remember correctly, and then moved into direct drive around the time that the second generation Cyclops Hammer came out. Over that time I have vacillated between TR and Zwift depending on what season my real life is in and whether I decided to compete. I have always had Zwift on at least in the background to "collect" mileage and credit for the work I would do on whatever front end I wanted to use, but there have been periods that I open it, minimize it and just save it when done. There isn't even a one size fits all for an individual, let alone a community 😉
Hi Sarah, I really like your videos and to be honest I missed them, because I have noticed you dont post as many as in the past, this is another great video, btw I LOVE ZWIFT! . Please keep posting videos when you can, I love your work!😊
Working on it! Settling in to a new job I started a couple months ago and it should be more feasible to get some videos up and posted. I won't be able to commit to anything like a weekly schedule due to some travel, but I am hoping to get one or two videos up a month. 🙂
Great video. Jack by the way isn't Jay Vine or Luca Vergallito or Ricarda Bauernfeind or Maud Oudeman, none of which i'm sure would say that the gamification of Zwift is detrimental. Living in the UK, I can confirm it rains a lot, its invariably cold and pretty windy, so outdoor riding is not always safe as you rightly point out. I'd agree that the video is elitist, and somewhat passive aggressive. People riding is a positive thing, and where that riding takes place isn't important, in the same way as structured training isn't important when some one simply wants to ride, get pleasure from their experiences, and as a side benefit, gain a degree of fitness.
I think they inadvertently wandered into the Lion's den and overplayed their bias here. After I posted the video, I did a bit more nosing around on their channel, it doesn't seem they have wandered into this subject matter often at all over the past several years. When they have, it hasn't landed well unless it was very prescriptive "here is a list of features or facts."
It's been a few months since I've seen one of your videos. I think I've been overdosing on Josh Allen highlights since September. Anyway, your points are all RIGHT ON! Awesome job of checking this incredibly judgmental vid. Wowl! Jack too... he gets a ding too for not saying, "Hey, Bro. I can speak for myself, thank you very much." :)
The amount of chrome extensions you have is impressive
Thank you for joining my TED talk 🤣 I think I use maybe 60 percent of the pinned ones a healthy amount of the time. Others are much more rare, but when I do need to get to them, I don't want to go spelunking. U block for example, sometimes websites get angry about ad blockers and won't function, so I'll need to toggle it off. It might happen once a month, but I know where it is! 😁
Saw this video before I saw your react, Sarah. Didn't think too much about it and, honestly, didn't make it through the entire time. However, having seen it again through watching your react, it seems like the BR video is very much like an AI generated photo. From a distance, or at quick glance, it looks great. But when you start to examine its parts, it becomes weird. As always, thanks for your thoughtful content.
Thank you! That's a great analogy! It's like a facade of something but it's not quite there... 😂
Well spoken 🙌 thankyou! Dude and Jack could create a meetup and ride a world on their own avoiding the rest of us aimless athletes 🙄 ride on
😂good point! I know in workout mode, if you really want to remove distractions (I have done this on some of the ZA sessions if I want to remove visual "noise") when you select a workout, just pick a world that isn't live, you are very likely to see almost no one. I guess it would be nice if Zwift had an "invisible" more if someone wanted to do an individual TT of a course or segment, and they can toggle it off when they are done, but it's such a limited use case; why would they bother?
I commented on the original video saying it was like some old 70's training video saying that training should not be fun & suffering is the only way. I also said this was total BS. Anything that gets you on your bike is good & should be encouraged. There is nothing wrong with anyone having an aimless spin on Zwift. Not every ride is based around training.
I saw your comment when I cued up the video to watch for the reaction. That 70s paradigm was damn pervasive and definitely overstayed it's welcome through the 00s and a good portion of the 2010s (albeit with more ubiquitous access to metrics layered on top of it)!
Like the way you comment and analyze the Bike Radar video. You do it very analytical and please intelectual viewer.s Unfortunately many are not able or don’t want to follow such thinking, which in my personal opinion is sad. However we have to accept that viewers often want simple message and are avoiding multi perspective analysis.
It is the prime goal to make people do more sports on a regular basis. Whatever motivates individuals do more sports is great and has huge benefits for healths. To improve your performance with structured training has only minor value for most of us.
Thank you for the generous compliment! As the adage goes, you can't please everyone! But, because I have always leaned into the longer form content, I have cultivated a great following of people who expect that, so fending off the occasional negative and thoughtless comment is probably only a fraction of what other channels get. I really enjoy how many thoughtful comments and responses I get on my video, people who took time out of their day to share their opinions, soties, insights... it's a pretty cool thing when you cultivate a community around more visceral conversations. 🙂
I really wish there was a double thumbs up button for exceptional content like this. BikeRadar consistently creates devisive content designed to drive comments, every video has the mandatory "Tell us what you think in the comments" statement. I have not watched them for years.
It's a shame to hear that. The only videos I really have ever watched were tech or bike reviews which tend to be pretty anodyne in nature. I decided not to go spelunking in their catalog to not bake in any additional bias when I reacted, but I did peruse a bit afterward... I maybe looked at a handful, and it really doesn't seem like the audience reacts too well when they stray from very formulaic review videos.
Well I’m glad you broke it down Sarah as I watched the Bike Radar video and was very confused as to what point they were trying to make!
Other than TrainerRoad is better than Zwift… But not as good as outside riding except when it is?!
I been on Zwift for a year and over 90% of my rides have been structured.
Maybe Jack hasn’t tried the training plans or custom plans on Zwift?
Thanks for balancing the debate and sticking up for us mindless athletes 😜
Aimless Zwifters UNITE!
"Riding around aimlessly" may be the benefit in and of itself.
I’m not training for anything particularly, no events, no group rides, no racing, just keeping fit and enjoy cycling. Therefore indoor training I do feel like I’m doing it wrong as you mentioned. Therefore lost the motivation and love to use the indoor trainer this year/season!
It's only wrong if you don't enjoy it. Maybe try adding a goal to keep you motivated. If you think you have the right tools or platform, you don't have to toe the line for a race necessarily, but maybe a loop you like, or if you like climbs, set a goal for a PR time. Maybe a reward will help to get you out of a slump. You can treat yourself to something you have wanted to buy or do if you get on the bike X hours a week for a month.
A lot of the research has shown that motivation is actually cyclical and requires momentum. Sometimes you have to do the thing to get the motivation... but how do you do the thing without the motivation first? If you can't brute force it (and sometimes you just can't), try other ways to incentivize or motivate yourself. With some momentum built up, I would be willing to bet you are back at it in no time.
I have hit major slumps before because of work and life stress draining my energy. I've had it take one ride outside to get me back on track, and sometimes it's taken a week or two of just "forcing myself" to get through it before something clicks. It helped me to set some rules with myself. If I was really too drained to ride, then I would have the freedom to bail out, but it could never be two days in a row. The worst case scenario is that I rode every other day. That's just an example of how I was able to maintain momentum in the moment if the reward or goal was too far away.
Everyone has their seasons in cycling. Even the best of the best have come to points in their lives that they are just burnt and don't have it in them. This also might be your "season." It's normal, maybe you're also putting too much pressure on yourself which makes it unappealing to get back in the saddle because you are telling yourself it will be miserable because you haven't been diligent and don't want to face "the numbers." Been there... take the time you need and give yourself some grace 😉
@@EverythingIsPhotogenic what a lovely reply. Thank you so much 😊
Interesting, never really thought about this. Either way, Zwift is a great platform, I"m reallaycurious what the structure workout ratio:free riding is. Its probably impossible to tell. I probably do >90% of my Zwift riding with imported workouts from my coach in training peaks.
SLR great video once again. I feel like this fellow could have taken his strong opinions and produced a more inclusive video in which he helps beginners understand that they don’t need all the extra peripherals to get benefit from indoor cycling. This is the sort of video (BR) that I find off putting. I probably wouldn’t have sat through the whole thing without your response video.
Exactly! This could have been 4-5 EXCELLENT videos that couldhave generated some positive engagement for the channel and probably a healthy number of views More importantly, it would have created true value for members of they cycling community!
I've even thought about tackling some of the pieces in individual videos since doing this. I have covered a lot of those elements in my videos already, but sometimes, it's nice to have a video only about those singular topics as a direct source instead of teasing it out of some of my longer-form tutorials or breakdowns. Makes it easier for the viewers to commit their time and attention if they only want te one piece.
Some of us couldn't care less about the training programs on Trainer Road. I'm 65-years-old and I have no desire to train to be a world-class cyclist. I'm there to ride, to try to regain some amount of fitness and spend some time riding with others from around the world. I do the Zwift TT Club races and most of the monthly Zwift challenges, but I do them for fun and that's all.
Exactly, you don't have to do a structured plan to get faster! I think it could help people to loosely follow fundamentals, like spacing out punchy group rides, Zwift races, or tough courses with easier zone 2 style rides in between, but it doesn't need to be so prescriptive. Training should move you toward your goals, if your goal is to be fit, decently fast, and enjoy your time in the saddle, structured training is by no means a pre-requisite!
I used zwift for a while to recover. It gave me the motivation to work from not even being able to pedal in easiest gear for 2 minutes to being able to ride 65 km. Additionally, as somebody who isn't fit and absolutely hates climbs in an area that is hilly with my parents' house being at the highest point a 1.5 km @ 8% on a busy road at the end of almost every ride just isn't feasible. Sure, I can take regional trains somewhere else but then I have a 10km ride to get back up without having this shitty climb to look forward to. Ultimately I left Zwift after it truly pissed me off (I think it was a bug ) and then I moved out and couldn't take my bike with me. So yes, Zwift was good for me when I used it to ride around "aimlessly"
It's just a tool in the toolbox, right? There are people who are all in on Zwift and would pass up a 72 degree day to ride indoors, not my cup of tea, but why should I judge? If it gets you too your goals, whatever they are, it's done its job! 🙂
Edit: Also, I missed Teddy.
I thought I'd better take your advice and watch the video first, so I clicked the link....and I couldn't get past the "What's fun isn't always good for fitness". Have they lost their minds? Having fun makes it *more* likely that you'll reach your fitness goals!
Elitist gatekeeping at its best. "Oh look at me, at how serious I am with cycling. We're the REAL cyclists because we stare at brick walls cos we're so hard and tough! Not like you plebs having fun on Zwift." Oh please.
When someone commented that they had been a subscriber for a while but as they simply ride to improve fitness clearly the channel isn't for them so they're out, Bike radar replied, "You seem to have taken this more personally than the tongue in cheek nature of which it was intended. Sorry to lose you but all the best ❤"
Which sounds like some bully on the middle school playground announcing, "Just kidding!" as if that will make it all better. Spoiler alert: It doesn't. There was nothing in this video that sounded tongue in cheek to me. It was played completely straight.
Alright, now I'm going to watch your video.
What is with his "extremely fit friend Jack"? That's the second (third?) time he's called Jack "extremely fit", and maybe the fourth or fifth time he's mentioned Jack. The thing that makes me laugh is I'm English...he's English...and "fit" in England means "really really attractive" or "hot". =D
I liked your take on their video, and think you were more than fair, and were kinder to them than they were to their fellow cyclists.
Yeah...they're not going to take this video down. It's brought views and engagement. But for me, I'll be hiding/blocking their channel from now on. I was pretty disgusted by the way they revealed what they truly think.
Teddy only likes to be on my work desk when I am in the middle of meetings... Otherwise he can't be bothered. He also didn't see the normal camera so he didn't know it was time for his closeup 😂
The further removed I get from watching through the video and responding to it, the more my opinion moves from annoyed to puzzled. I still think it was intended to drive some "outrage" because it sure as shit wouldn't drive positive engagement... But it seemed to backfire even by those standards. I think because instead of going hard on an unpopular opinion, they leaned into the making sure people thought they were the strongest and smartest people in the room.
I purposely didn't do a ton of "research" on their channel to avoid additional bias during the video. I looked at basic metrics, video titles and thumbnails, and my own knowledge of their brand (both the website and the channel). I did go back afterward to understand better what their goals may have been... There's an utter paucity of videos surrounding anything training related for several years. A sponsored Zwift video, of all things, and a few rapid fire features and specs highlights, but mainly bike and tech reviews. Additionally, the engagement metrics for their channel across the board are on the lower end of the bell curve, even for their size and niche. They don't seem to connect well with their audience. People go there for quick info, but are not inclined to like and comment.
Now, in general there is nothing wrong with that, especially if your core business might be your website and you are trying to leverage social media to enhance your publishing. But, this video shows how little they know their audience or purpose. Your viewers, new and old, are not connecting with the personalities and they are primarily coming to you for facts, some A/B tests, and highlights. Suddenly you show up with a strong, unpopular, and haughty expression of your opinion that you have to know will turn off the majority of you audience (they said they were the minority), and you think this content will land??
I saw that reply, reads to me like "I'm sorry you're offended." I had hoped the like ratio (that my video with a quarter of the views and 10x as long has more than doubled already) and comments would inspire then to pull the content team together and reflect. The bottom line I get, and I hope I am wrong, is that they don't care beyond their own myopic view of their day-to-day.
I truly believe whether you are a pro or getting ready for the first ride, you should care about ensuring the sport continues to remain viable. This may be a lesser concern in Europe, but it's still there. Sponsors pull out of pro cycling every year because they aren't getting enough "new blood" taking an interest in cycling to make it worth it. So much of amateur cycling, even if it's noncompetitive, is downstream of professional cycling (just like any other sport), we need to ensure it can compete for attention in a world increasingly preoccupied with screens and instant gratification.
I’m no expert on structured workouts and training, but I don’t think I need to be to recognise that, the “…what you could call, riding around aimlessly without achieving any physiological goals…” comment came across as very judgemental and really quite ignorant too. Although I guess the BikeRadar video wasn’t aimed at someone like me, a person that rides to largely improve their general fitness, I do wonder what benefit it provides for someone who takes their training very seriously. I have watched some BikeRadar videos with interest before. However, this particular video feels like it’s just content for the sake of providing content, whilst unfortunately being somewhat divisive by alienating / rubbing some people up the wrong way. Maybe that’s all good for the algorithms though. I don’t know. Thanks for your review. I think you’ve made very valid points, well balanced as always.
I still don't know who the video is for. You would think based on its tone it's for the elite level cyclists, but their channel as a whole isn't really directed at that narrow of a demographic. Ignorant is the right word, and they knew exactly what they were doing with the way they edited that clip. They were judging their audience and wanted them to know it. If they are doing this to feed the algorithm, I think this a prime example of wielding their influence irresponsibly. "Forget the community, just give me my money...."
Absolutely. Nevertheless, although they like things dull, I still wish Ashley and the extremely fit Jack a very happy future together ❤. Sorry, childish I know, but I couldn’t resist and subscriber privilege allows me to make such comments 😀. The point is, I also found all those mentions on behalf of the absent Jack a bit much too.
Anyway, ultimately I am left wondering what the real motivation was for the BikeRadar video. I’ll keep an open mind on that. At the very least, I feel that their video seems to do more harm than good, other than perhaps for the benefits of the TH-cam algorithm and for TrainerRoad subscriptions.
I have to wonder... if they left that comment out, would I have even responded to this video? I disagree with a lot of it, but some of their digs were more subtle. It was just so damn egregious and made it clear how the rest of the commentary was to be interpreted. I really hope that the responses they received to their video have elicited some internal conversations with their team about messaging and presentation. That was a swing and a miss.
@@EverythingIsPhotogenic for me that comment was the tipping point that drove me to comment on your video. Although it was just a sentence or two, it was very telling about his (their?) attitude to some cyclists. To be honest though, if he hadn’t said that, I probably wouldn’t have commented on your video even though your other thoughts seem to be entirely valid. So, I can see why you might not have made your video otherwise. However, he did say those things, so I think it’s good you made your video, even if it just highlights how some at Bike Radar feel about some types of cyclist. Also, it’s been good for us to let off steam. Better out than in they say.
Ok, I’ll confess, I could not make it to the end of your video. Just don’t have the time and I feel like I got the basic premise of your points. For me, and I suspect many others, Zwift is an exercise alternative in the cold weather months in the Northeast. Sure I do some structured workouts as a way to focus on a specific training element or to mix it up a little, but I am not using Zwift to build myself up as a competitive cyclist. It’s just not my thing. So, if I were to have come across the video from these guys, I would have jumped ship pretty early, and definitely by the time he made the judgmental comment about Zwift users “ cycling aimlessly.” That right there is part of what contributes to the bias many more recreational cyclists have about the arrogance of some who just come across as elitist. Reminds me of the time I was hanging out after registering for a charity ride and having a beverage with my wife in a beautiful alpine setting only to have some guy come by and state how lazy I was and how he had already cycled 3000 miles so far. Really?? Fortunately I don’t care what others think, but I did find it pretty bold and arrogant and to me, that is what this video from these guys portrays. Hey, there is plenty of room for everyone to cycle, let’s not portray a specific type of platform or approach to indoor cycling as “the” way. In the meantime I’ll continue to enjoy Zwift and get myself ready for outdoor riding ,in the next few weeks, I hope😊. Thanks for taking the time and energy to create this video and all the others. I do truly enjoy them and find them helpful in my riding. Carry on.
The whole video struck me as a clickbait hot take video to drive views. Based on how it fared compared to their other videos, it didn’t seem to have worked.
I run my setup like yours - TrainerRoad for the structure, Zwift for the entertainment (and XP accumulation…). I’m one of those poor souls who has to set up and tear down my rig every time I ride, so I went with the ATV for Zwift out of pure simplicity. Has worked brilliantly so far.
I didn't go back and dig through their channel before the react video to ensure I wasn't baking in any additional bias or emotional response, but I did go nose around a little after. I zoomed in on maybe a handful of videos that fell outside the traditional tech and bike reviews they specialize in. They seem to land like a fart in church, so I am much less concerned about their impact than I was at first. They built their niche around reviews, and they have done that for years. I think their website is several years older than their channel. Like I said, just because you have strong expertise in one area doesn't mean it transcends all areas of cycling. I think the ratio of likes and comments in their videos have them discussing internally a more thoughtful direction. Either stay in your lane, or treat the subject matter with the diligence and respect it deserves. They clearly can't be making much revenue on these low effort videos. If anything, they might be hurting future traffic... if they really don't care if they hurt the community, they should care about their own channel.
I pushed up the playback speed... works great :)
Live and let live. This guy (and probably Jack) are pretty “confident” riders. Good for them.
Fair point!
@@EverythingIsPhotogenicthey remind me of the super fit guys with primo gear and race kits that show up at a “no drop” club ride talking at not with gawking clubbers and newbies and hammer off the start like a Zwift Crit. But Jack never shows.
I am 59. I have been zwifting since 2020. I am extremely busy. I zwift two to three times a week. That punk is out of his mind. I am no pro but I love being with other people . I zwift for my health not to be a bike race pro. Let's see what this kid is doing when he turns 59? I ride alone to clear my head. Who is he to call me out saying I am riding around aimlessly? That is like saying you have to make a million dollars a year and if you don't then you are living aimlessly!
“Suffering is a choice-not a rule. You’re no more of a cyclist than someone else because you go faster or they stay home when it’s raining.” ~Philuminati Rule #10
And don't forget COOKIES!
Shoutout to Jack for doing a cameo in this video 😂
Thanks for showing up, buddy! 🤣
Excellent video and response to disingenuous information and assumptions. 👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽🍻
Thank you!
Gatekeeping is such an ugly thing. I'm surprised to find BR is still around.
it'd be great if this got back to Bike Radar and they took onboard the constructive criticism
Whether it is from me or their subscribers, I hope that they reflect on their handling of this topic! 🙂
What the bike radar video seems to miss is folk cycle for various reasons often changing priority as you get older or achieve goals, theres no one fit all. I have mixed my fitness cycling on the road with a club but also using the turbo on days when either the weather is poor or i just am happy to turn out a hour on the turbo zone 2 or 3 watching a film etc. Its totally down to individual choice and what motivates the individual, the guy is stating the obvious when he talks about not sticking to training by chasing others on Zwift , we all know this, Rather patronising and as for his super fit friend, they need to get a room 😅😅😅
Great video. Bike Radar lost any authority as a reputable brand many years ago. I would love to see Zwift buy Trainer Road and integrate it into their platform and then Bike Radar can do a follow up video with just the host crying and Jack giving him a cuddle to make him feel better.
That would be excellent to watch!
I totalt agree on you opinion. If you always messure who has the longest stem - and not do your structured workout - Its you that have to grow up and not be a wanker.
I felt many of his opinions (stated as facts) and some of the comparisons where very outdated, and/or showed a lack of/or dated knowledge of the the "sim" platforms, to the point I actually paused the video to check the upload date. For most riders it's really just a "horses for courses" choice . Although I wont say it "stank" of it I did get a few whiffs of passive aggressive "real cyclists dont need video games" gatekeeping. I hope we aren't reverting back to the days of "real cycling is suffering" that put so many people off the sport I love in the past.
That was pretty much the long and short of my perception. I actually found it a bit bizarre because it's been a long time since I saw that sentiment out in the open. You'll still catch the old school guys at your local group ride or race, but I don't think he is too far outside the millennial generation (if at all) and most people in that age bracket didn't live with that mentality long enough to be indoctrinated into it. It really does spoil the whole sport.
@@EverythingIsPhotogenic I think it's also worth remembering that he's being paid to cycle and maintain a certain level of ability on some level at least, and no matter how much you like your job, some day's you just don't want to do it. I go out and "suffer" sometimes because I choose to, not because I have to. That probably changes your mentally towards training a bit.
I have a DIY rocket, probably cost $30 to build, and it has helped immensely to ease the pressure off my hips and sit bones. Also, if you’re using an indoor trainer, why wouldn’t you want to simulate a long continuous uninterrupted outdoor session.
I've seen some great DIY rocker plates that aren't as intrusive and certainly less expensive. I am not sure why you wouldn't. I'm not saying this to be overtly snarky, but it is my honest belief that people who talk about how "useless" rocker plates are probably fall into one of two camps: 1, they rarely or never ride indoors for over 2 hours, or they are insecure about the price tag and get somewhat emotional about it. They are VERY expensive, prohibitively so for the majority of people, so I understand the feeling, but they are and will continue to come down in price, and there are so many brilliant DIY schematics that people have shared, I would be willing to bet that camp is converted with an affordable alternative.
This is why I don't watch cycling channels such as BR and GCN so much these days. I'd much prefer to watch cyclists who have filmed their bikepacking trip or Audax event, riding around the countryside for the enjoyment of it all. I ride for fun, both indoors and outdoors, and find structured training boring. If it was the only option for indoors, then I probably wouldn't be motivated to train. But that's just me. I enjoy 'riding aimlessly' on various platforms which use real video and where I have a choice of riding in the Alps for one session or the UK country lanes for the next. The views and scenery keep me engaged. I can make it as hard or as easy as I want depending how I feel at the time and either ride at z2, threshold or whatever. The main thing is that I'm on the bike and staying fit/getting fitter whilst enjoying the experience, and hopefully, come the better weather and riding outdoors, I won't die on the first hill I encounter.😂
You know what, you bring up a great point that I had noodling in my head but I didn't pursue because I didn't have the facts to back it up. I get the sense from the BR team that they are journalists first with varying passions for cycling. I'll give it to GCN, their presenters have a healthy resume behind them, but my point there being is having skin in the game. I think an opinion is diminished when the presenter has no skin in the game. Now that can come in several flavors, it could be past, present, support of someone first-hand like coaching... it almost feels more like firing shots from the cheap seats versus a thoughtful opinions. For BR I see this play out in their review content which is much more objective and somewhat thorough because that's their brand. I am pretty sure their website was around first and they jumped into the video space because the market demanded it. They have skin in the game there... when it comes to training, fitness, and health... I don't feel like they really get it.
That's a little more judgmental than I wanted that to come off. I think the point I am trying to get at is that I think a lot of people enter TH-cam, podcasts, etc., because they have TRUE expertise in their domain. When they reach the edges of their domain because there is only so much you can talk about it with a generalized audience, they branch out to related areas. It's surprising sometimes to see how brilliant experts (not specifically talking BR here) turn into complete buffoons when they discuss a tangentially related subject matter. This ranges from the sciences all the way to hobbyist content. Credentials and the like don't often read across.
The BikeRadar video strikes me as one reverse engineered from a clickbait title. Sadly that's common for large content farm channels. It's low effort and meandering with generic points, summarized to "I train hard and don't care about immersion or community in training." I doubt the b-roll was considered at all beyond making sure it was vaguely related to the subjects being discussed. This was a daily upload. You're thinking more deeply than the authors did.
I think you're right. I think there's an element of feeling like I need to be thorough in explaining exactly why the video falls apart in detail, because I don't have the 6 figure subscriber count at my back to just hand wave away their weak video as exactly what it is without a detailed explanation. That said, it does still frustrate me that channels with broad sweeping influence put out lazy videos with no thought to the consequences. I don't think a person who feels insecure about a video like this is exceptionally fragile, they might just be unsure of themselves and is swayed in a direction that doesn't serve them because the "experts" told them they're doing it wrong.
somee very valid arguments here, great vid BUT: no Teddy cameo? extrenely dysappointing Sarah...
I'm disappointed in myself! I'll have to double the cat content in the next one
Yes I DO need to gamify indoor cycling. If it wasn't for my insatiable lust to complete a game I wouldn't be zone2'ing alp du zwift every day to maximize exp. I'd be spending that time on world of warcraft instead!
Yesss although I have a weakness for the Last of Us and Assassins Creed games... Zwift doesn't stand a chance when new ones are released 🥸
Where's Teddy? I think Teddy would have a thing or two to say about this.
On-topic: great vid. I understand your warning to those cyclists who are new to indoor cycling and might be put off if the BR video would be the only one they would ever see on this matter. Luckily there are more videos out on YT and websites that offer other views on indoor cycling, so hopefully novice cyclists can steer away from the BR one.
One other thing that struck me was that Ashley was refering to monotonous, boring indoor sessions on TR that could turn any cyclist into a pro-level hardened powerhouse (or that is how I took it). If that would be true, what are all those pro-cyclists doing on Zwift? According to Ashley they're wasting their time, since they're riding around aimlessly.
I think I'll go with the pros here.
I am disappointed in myself for not including Teddy. He curiously enough didn't interrupt me even once! I think it is because I was at my work desk and I think he's figured out I keep putting him on the floor when he interrupts meetings 🤣
At risk at sounding like a gatekeeping comment, I just don't think BR has done their due diligence to enter this conversation. You are absolutely right, there are plenty of resources that have put in the work to understand the audience and subject matter to publish thoughtful content. Given how badly ratioed the video ended up being (even before I published my video) I would be surprised if they touched this subject again.
TrainerRoad really is a slick platform, but it is also a very niche use case. It captures that part of the demographic that wants something more than a canned plan but can't commit to a full coach. That does not represent the majority of riders, but if someone asked me what they should do if they wanted to prepare to be competitive in a race or get to peak shape for a Grand Fondo, it would be hard for me not to recommend the training plans on TR. If they could swing the budget though, I would have them do both, having something to look at REALLY helps 😅
Well, if Teddy interrupts your meetings, you have something to look at as well 😉.
I don't know TR personally, but if they offer more structured plans, then of course it's something to look at as a novice rider. It would have been nice though if BR had touched the combo of several indoor training platforms in their video, showing the strenghts/weaknesses of said platforms and of course BR can include the presenter's preference. However, BR should not forget that a preference is personal, and not something BR can measure other riders by.
Looking at the comments on their video, I think they will understand they could have done a better job here. I hope they will give it a try once more, but now incorporating more perspectives than just Ashley's and Jack's.
This has to be an undeclared Trainer Road AD, feels clunky like the TR "take down" of Polerised Training videos.
If TR didn't pay, then they got a free AD.
Bike Radar is the poor mans or low rent GCN, to the extent they even forgot to add the AD logo...
Think this is the most I've seen of Bike Radar videos and I'm not inpressed, not sure they add value to the cycling online media space.
Edit: no cat content :( & only an hour long ? A good 4hr vidoe is better then a poor 7min one :)
It definitely has a bit of that feel, but it's probably unintentional free advertising. Maybe they are sniffing around for sponsorship dollars lol. I haven't watched enough of Bike Radar to really have a strong opinion on them in the space, I've mainly watched some of their tech and bike reviews that seem anodyne enough. And maybe that's the crux of it, they've strayed too far from their "lane" and stuck their foot in it.
Are you pitching back as you represent Zwift and they are pitching for Trainer road . Could not bring myself to watch all the Video / even at my age I am training back to fitness after illness but I have always used more than one platform. I use Zwift and also Rouvy they both fit in more with the way I train, don't see any point in these guys saying there is only one way of training that's to have your nose on the grind stone. Group rides on Zwift or riding with your own group of riders which you can do on Rouvy now can be great training if you use it in the right way sure you need to push yourself in higher efforts to improve at top end of 3 but turning the legs over in med range still has benefits. I understand what you are getting at in your video about the way they are presenting things and who was the other mythical person.
I just think their video was almost bizarre. I honestly have no skin in the game for any of these platforms. My choices are Trainer Road and Zwift together, and I could always share why I made those choices, but any platform that gets someone to get what they want out of their training is the right one. If it's a head unit and Netflix, so be it! 😉
I find it interesting that with the amount of time he talks about being able to focus on the numbers without the distraction of other riders/gamification he doesn’t mention the Zwift Companion screen that allows you to do just that.
So many other options, right? Now you can pick your course when you select a Zwift workout, you can pick a world that isn't live that day. Shit, if you are knocking out Zone 2 for a couple hours, a pace partner group can help keep you disciplined to a prescribed pace!
Who Is Jack? :D
His extremely fit friend! 😂
🤣
Jack: the fittest imaginary friend in almost-existence?
Imagine gatekeeping the poorest representation of cycling, reveling in the inaccessibility to most people and ostracizing the
98.4% of people who swing their leg over a top tube. Who hurt you, BikeRadar? Was it Jack? Or is Jacque? When he’s imaginary alpine training
I was a hard-nosed NYC circuit racer, I regularly win zwift races currently and this is FAR from the ambassadorial position one should take while riders of all levels sort of aspire to be accepted by those who take themselves all too seriously. Well done, Sarah. 👏
Sorry…I hate gatekeeper cycle elitist douche bags who think they know everything and have the right to tell me what to do how to ride and what to do, Zwift saved me at the beginning of the pandemic and helped me recover from a bad injury and made me want to go outside on my bike…when I could. How much money has trainer road thrown them to diss Zwift? I don’t think I will be watching any of there videos any time soon
It's a bummer that they have taken this approach. I sense that they may be a little out of their depth when it comes to structured training and the online platforms. Most of their content is technical, reviewing bikes and peripherals. Perusing around at the videos that vary from that theme, they don't seem to land well. I think they have pigeon holed themselves and haven't taken the time or given the effort to cover this topic appropriately. If they had the opportunity to land with this portion of the audience, they definitely squandered it with this one.
20 minutes in and I find this video to be similar to riding a trainer indoors…
Great, enjoy your day.
Thanks, I pretty much always do... As I hope you also enjoy yours!
Okay, 46 minute in... 1) I readily acknowledge I don't know jack, 2) I have profound respect for your passion (none of this matters as you declare you mostly don't care what people think) - you spent a great deal of time to provide a fair perspective on their video... 3) Fundamentally, you are spot on, their video was really quite poor.
Instead of a mildly obsessive take(down), you should make a video that discusses the benefits of all of the negatives they mention... Most of their negatives can, from a different persons perspective, be positives.... (Your passion has motivated me to subscribe... Especially to see if you have done the above).
As it pertains to inclusivity, would love to chat with you about that one...
Watched the whole video... Again, your thoughtful approach is appreciated... (Edited: not a fan of TR - just rub me the wrong way... And, in Chi-beria, Zwift is our winter friend...)
@@mejdrichj Your response is well taken. For some additional context, I have actually covered many of the subjects I criticized, but I know that some of those points are buried in larger videos. I was already discussing with a few other commenters potentially repeating some of those elements but in shorter standalone videos so that there was a place for those that were more immediately searchable. I have talked about Zwift a TON on my channel, so I probably wouldn't necessarily go there, but I would home in on strategies to deal with the urge to chase down other riders, maybe a pros and cons of immersive and non-immersive platforms with less focus on brands and more focus on who are these for, traps and pitfalls of indoor training, and a few others come to mind.
Admittedly, when I make my videos, I imagine the person across from me is one of the subscribers that has been around for a bit and has that context (many of my viewers come back and comment on every video, which I love). But, I need to do better at finding a balance between talking to the brand new viewers. Perhaps my own fear of the channel feeling too sterile or prescriptive at the expense of a stronger connection with a smaller community has been a bit misplaced. I could use the links, cards, and end screens a little better to point the newer folks to other videos in my library that contain the context I think would help for them to have. I know it can be done without the cringy "just give me more views so I can get more adsense" vibe.
I really didn't want this to be a take down in the sense that it was perceived as a dunking on Bike Radar. This is first (and quite possibly last) react video I have ever done, so I thought more context of what was in my head would give the impression of more than a nitpick on each point (also bearing in mind that I needed to be cautious with how much I let the video run at once for Fair Use), but I can see how for some it could be perceived as just tearing every square inch of the video apart. Back to the last point, people who have gotten to know me here, know that's not my intention. People who haven't yet... that's something I need to bear in mind if I ever decide to do something like this again.
Inclusion in the sport is definitely a conversation that I would love to see more of. I am a little nervous to tread into that realm publicly because I am not nearly active enough in the real world community these days with a pretty hectic work life to act as a good ambassador. I can talk about my perceptions being a member of the cycling minority and why I think women have been turned off. I also know what I hear from my little community here and why they may feel intimidated or nervous to make themselves seen in the community.
I have very generalized thoughts on how things could be made better, but they are so general that they are too the point of being perceived as almost vapid...I've seen some strategies like discounted rates for women's events work decently enough locally, and I have also seen the younger generation that seems to be more open and accepting improve things somewhat organically, but I haven't done my due diligence to have productive discussions about that. I'm always open to hear from anyone what they think about getting more people into cycling so growth and interest doesn't stagnate. I have seen a couple very insightful comments on this video already, and if you have thoughts... I would love to hear them.
Seems like a deliberate effort to distinguish themselves (Bike Radar) from GCN who are unapologetically pro and/or maybe even sponsored by Zwift.
That's an interesting thought. I haven't picked up a whole lot of GCN content of late, but I seem to remember them being more inviting about it. Making fun of the stupid arbitrary rules while remaining steadfastly committed to them. The personalities seemed more approachable, like "hey, we are about that pro life, but come along" I hope that hasn't changed
@@EverythingIsPhotogenic I've not watched any of their stuff in about 6 months (that may be a lifetime on YT, lol ) but, I can recall last winter they were promoting them pretty strongly with hardly a mention of the alternatives. In fact, they filmed a great deal of segments with their hosts and guests racing, running FTP ramp tests, climbing Alpe Du Zwift, Epic KOM, etc.. Incidentally, everything was run on Wahoo trainers.
My point is this, who gives a shit if someone is doing a structured workout or not. Does the guy on Bike Radar have a problem with people just riding around to just ...ENJOY CYCLING?? I do structured workouts, I do badge hunting, I do rides with teams and friends, and I just ride around for fun enjoying the pretty scenery or the dinosaur on the side of the road. If people are being active, who cares how they are doing it. You don't have to do a workout to enjoy Zwift and it seems like that's the only reason to ride indoors is to train. That is 100% wrong. I've had injuries and used Zwift to help me get moving again. I could only ride very short distances but I still was having fun and doing something to get me moving. If Bike Radar thinks that the only reason to get on Zwift is to train, they are missing the point completely. The last person across the finish line at a marathon still ran a marathon!
Exactly, I didn't articulate that well when I talked about how the Zwift demographics broke out, but that was really what I meant to get at. When I am 60, maybe I'll want to do structured training, but it's likely that I won't. I know my goal is to be fit and healthy enough to be able to do long outdoor rides that I love, and staying fit enough to do that will require me to train indoors as well. I don't care if someone is trying to maintain enough baseline fitness to feel comfortable chasing and playing with their kids or if they are toeing the line for a world title, there should be a place for them in this community.
@@EverythingIsPhotogenic This dude seems like he would stand outside a gym and tell people they are too out of shape to enter. BTW, I like your content and have viewed many of your vids for helpful hints for Zwift when I first got started. You and Shane Miller are my go-to's for Zwift help.
I like those "boring" training rides and I am not that interested in Zwift's virtual world. Een my Z2 rides I don't look at the zwift (or indievelo) screen. I watch some youtube video like a walkthrough of Paris or whatever. When I want fun I go outside. But that's me. Other people love Zwift racing.. go you! The more people ride a bike the better the world will be.
Also the dude on the bike is riding on the exact same bike I have.. A budget Decathlon bike.. about the cheapest you can get.
So I don’t have a major problem with the points being made, I do however feel like the bike radar video was presented by a 15 year old who is determined to tell the world that he has a friend. This guy has that many followers? That’s funny!! I’m new to cycling and yeah I’ve spotted the so called elite folk. I don’t say anything but I’m quietly laughing at them internally… it’s so dumb & sad 😂
So...,Bike Radar are saying that unless I'm training at a semi-professional level and staring at a wall with my sweaty, not to mention imaginary, friend, Jack, I might as well not bother, yes?
This man is what we in the UK would call a 'berk', he's put me off Bike Radar rather than Zwift.
Good critique though!
Is it just me having zero sound on mobile?
This is just a TH-cam mobile bug that I have run into from time to time. Usually if you kill the app and come back, everything works fine. Or if you click to a different video and come back that works sometimes too. I don't know why this happens, but I have seen this when I watch other people's videos, especially within the first couple of hours of release. It's obnoxious 😉
How much did Trainer Road pay this guy?
I've never trusted dudes named Ashley.
😂 I like dudes named Teddy though... but maybe I am biased
Spot os Sarah - they're so far off the mark. Your comments are totally valid and I completely agree with you
Thank you, David! Wish they could have used their influence better on this one, but such is life!
Typical cycling elitism. 🙄 Every ride has to be a full gas all out VO2Max effort or you’re doing it wrong. If you’re having even an ounce of fun, you aren’t working hard enough and shame on you. It’s the equivalent of showing up in person to the group ride and being deemed unworthy if your bike and kit didn’t cost at least $10k.
The opinions of people like this aren’t even worth addressing. But I appreciate your effort to clear the air because you’re right-some people will see this and take it as gospel and become discouraged. So, thank you protecting the community. I just hate that people like this have a platform. 😒
You're right, I took the bait. Mainly because the reach the channel has though, if it was a small channel I would likely have rolled my eyes and moved on. I don't own this community by any stretch of the imagination and don't want to act as gatekeeper, but I thought maybe throwing the "counter-argument" out there might help balance the scales a bit. 😉