FAILED ACADEMY? Zwift Bashing or Fair Criticism?
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 12 ก.ค. 2024
- With the close of the Zwift Academy closing up, I wanted to give my closing thoughts and opinions on what is one of Zwift's flagship events. Did Zwift deliver on its promises for this series? Are they doing enough to advance the Academy and the platform? Are they doing too much? Too little? I share my thoughts in this video as an experienced community member and a multiple-time participant in the Academy, but I would love to hear from you. What did you think?
0:00 Teddy
0:20 Intro
1:07 Am I anti-Zwift?
4:21 What went well
9:19 The so-so
13:55 The ugly
23:15 Conclusions
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Keep the FAIR critiques coming. You’re doing great in providing comprehensive and knowledgeable critiques. It most definitely helps in navigating what I can and want to do with the platform. Don’t let these shallow thinkers pressure you into giving up your integrity.
I'm very new to Zwift, and very unfit/obese. I'm on a weight loss journey and using Zwift as part of that (I've never even sat on a bicycle in real life). The academy was great for me and introduced me to the workouts. I saw big improvements between the initial ride and the final ride, so I'm very pleased with that (and it's very motivating). However, I can see how improvements to the academy could be made. I've enjoyed this series of videos - good to see what experienced users think.
Brilliantly dissecting of everything attached to this year’s academy. Superb stuff 🌈
From a "beginner and nerd guy" perspective, your channel is pure gold!!! It's been an year of consistent studying a new way of training (coming from 10 years of weight lifting) and all the content on your channel it's really in line with what other big channels are saying about this wonderfull sport, but in a different, more enjoyable way! Keep doing those videos, you don't know how helpful for people like me they actually are!!! Cheers from Italy 😀👍🏼
Word.
🙏
You’re awesome and I always look forward to your videos. They have helped me prepare for Zwift Academy in 2021 and in 2022. Thanks and keep it up.
Thank you so much! Very happy that they have been helpful!!
Your videos are great! Being honest now days is foreign to too many people unfortunately. You keep up the good work.
As far as the ZA I agree scale ability would be nice. It’s been beautiful here and as you said I’m not going to ride inside nearly as much when its great weather. I think more time to complete and a harder academy should be a option. Even time of the academy could be changed to a more acceptable time. Maybe a 3 month window and a time limit once started with more workouts and time to make a difference in your outcome. I understand they see dedication and effort in a cookie cutter view but that’s why there are not as many finishers to the program as you stated. Overall you are spot on in this video right down the line. I do not want to take away from your excellent commentary anymore. Thank you
Thanks so much! That's a great idea to create a rolling timeline as well. They don't have to offer group rides for the whole boat, many of us are happy enough to jump on a solo workout and just be in the presence of other riders out and about on Zwift. If you're not going for the pro contender program, does a firm deadline really need to exist? I would contend no... If you want people to do the program to make it worth your while to program it, put something crazy at the end. One of the best unlocks I ever received was a bike. They haven't done that in years for anything other than the challenges. They ended up releasing the bike for purchase later, but the paint scheme is something that will never be seen again. It's unique and it's a bike that is still one of the fastest TT bikes in the game and remains relevant. While I might not do something FOR the unlock, it might keep my on track if my attention starts to wander... 😉
That's one of the best video introduction I saw in my life! Honestly, objectivity is the major reason I follow your channel but if somehow some folks thinks your attacking Zwift, there of off track...
Thanks so much! I try not to focus too much on the negative commentary, and I definitely try to avoid feeding the trolls, but I felt compelled to address these comments because they really are a good example of how elements of social media have gone wrong. Some people are not happy unless they are promoting tribalism or simply tearing down the creative endeavors of others. I find myself wondering why people would waste their own time to behave that way... yet the do... such is life. Thanks for the kind comment!
Thanks a lot for your videos, they helped me a lot doing the academy!! I agree with you, older ZA were so much harder and I noticed a progression. This year I missed also the races and the group rides. As you said, probably the people that are starting to use the bike doesn’t know what a race is and the Academy was a very good way to introduce you to that. I hope next year academy bring them back. Again, thanks for your videos, they were so helpful ❤
I enjoy your videos... and I am glad I am not the only one seeing some of these easy fixes that should have been caught before going live. Keep them coming!
Thank you so much! 😀
Thank you very much for this video, I think you are spot-on. I'm quite new to Zwift (just started this year) and new to the Zwift Academy. I very much enjoyed doing the workouts but didn't see much improvements comparing the baseline with the finish line ride. I think the program was just too short to see real improvements. Also I was a little bit disappointed by the email I got. Apparently I have a Sprinter phenotype but I have a feeling (this is just based on hearsay, people around me and zwift forums) that the large majority has been branded as Sprinters as compared to the other 2 phenotypes. What I missed most is more detailed advice (being new to structured workouts and the science of training different energy systems) of how to move ahead in terms of training plans and workouts that work best for me and target my weak areas. Anyway, I do very much enjoy your videos and learn a lot from them!!!
i wanna thank you for giving me so much helpful information about zwift. i love your quick straight-to-the-point delivery. i'm getting my first smart exercise bike in a few days and i plan on using zwift for the first time as soon as i get the bike.
This is the first year in 4 years that I did not finish the academy. I agree with what you said, it just didn't offer a lot for me. The workouts were too easy, and the unlocks didn't matter to me. Weather was good for outside riding still, this came too early for me. I always like to hear your opinions and found others that shared your thoughts and criticisms this year. Thanks for all your videos and keep them coming.
Yeah i can't see myself ever doing ZA but i think your videos are very fair and helpful for those who are interested. I still enjoy them so i still watch them.
I very much appreciate the support! I tried to include some useful nuggets for people who don't necessarily do the specific events 😉
Love your show. Keep going and looking forward to your insights which are fantastic. Ride on👍🏾👍🏾👍🏾👍🏾🚴🏾♂️🚴🏾♂️🚴🏾♂️🚴🏾♂️
Thank you for your academy workout videos they really helped me keep focus and complete the workout. I would have liked to have seen an ftp ramp test prior to the first baseline ride. I started with the short workouts to build confidence but found they were too easy so switched up to the long workouts but also found I complete these without using all of my energy so would like to see an extra round of workouts. With the baseline ride I was categorises as a time trialist but then on the finish ride I was a pursuitist this made me question the value of the Zwift analysis. Overall, I enjoyed the academy and will seek to find a Zwift workout programme that will challenge and improve me throughout the darker months. I agree with your positive and constructive critic. Well done
Another Zwift Academy Graduate 🎓 , don't worry about overly explaining yourself to the distractors Sarah , yeah I read the previous correspondence and the negative feedback , I'm lvl 52 and got all the BS , routes, badges etc , if anyone has the right to an opinion is myself , I won't be cancelling my subscription anytime soon , zwift today compared to my inauguration some 4 year back , is a totally different platform , with the recent new updates, pace partners , ghost riders , more access to training ok its not there strong suite but its a start .
However getting back to the academy , 2022 was weak , to get any gains in a 4 week time frame is BS for a regular rider who sustains a certain lvl of zwift readiness , I tracked some of the workouts of the week during the last 4 weeks and compared them to ZA , far more beneficial , zwift is looking just at numbers , I remember seeing the official data demograhic regarding lvl 50 plus , only 0.7% of zwifters , why would they listen to us , eventually finished the finishline ride on the weekend , after being horned by a unicorn my health was a little off , as I have mentioned in previous posts regarding each workout, I modified the workouts to suit , added blocks , played with bias etc .
Keep up the good work Sarah 👏, say what you like , its your house , summer approaching in my world , the show gets on the road , ride safe stay safe 👍
I just subscribed to your channel because you explained Zwift better for me. I would love to ride outside but because life gets in the way I have been doing a lot of Zwift to stay in shape. Thanks for the videos.
As someone new to cycling and Zwift I found your videos about the Academy really helpful. Yes, like you, I would have done a longer training program if it had been available. Perhaps you could do a video on the best way to continue with structured training now that the Academy is over? Thanks
Your vids are awesome. Can't get enough of them! Can we have a full Teddy cut/vid?!
Thanks so much! Teddy really is the star of the show, I really should put together a Teddy compilation one of these days 😅
I keep coming back, that says it all. Please keep it up!
As always...a great video. And well balanced 👌🏼Keep 'em coming.
I always appreciate your insights. Keep up the great work.
My thoughts: I actually committed to finishing the Academy this year and enjoyed it overall. Perhaps it's because I am at the lower end of an intermediate level cyclist ftp is around 185). The workouts were okay in the sense that I was working but I always felt I could give a little more.
What the "structured training," did do for me was excite me enough to pursue another plan after I finished the Academy. I'm already in to week two of the Gran Fondo training plan with the intention of doing a 112 mile ride prior to the end of the year. (Aspiring to do a 70.3 or 140.6 next year).
Overall, I think your assessment is very fair. At this point in Zwift's life span they really should be beta testing it every year to make sure all the kinks are worked out prior to the start date. Death by a thousand cuts....
P.S. I also caught that 30/30 prompt and immediately shook my head. Such a silly mistake.
Thanks for your feedback and sharing your experience! I think your experience is what I would love to see for most people in the academy, use it as a primer or introduction and segue into something more holistic. The death by a thousand cuts is such an apt analogy, the fundamentals are so important to the experience to get people to glean the benefits of the program without being distracted by poor execution!
I wasn’t too impressed with my results . I improved on my sprint segment and my other two segments were a very small improvement. The effort I put into the workouts I was expecting bigger gains !! Especially when I took my baseline test I was full of the cold . Keep your opinions coming 🤗 and I am enjoying your videos 👍
You are doing an excellent work! Thank you for very good content
Thanks for your in-depth analysis and overview. I enjoy listening to your opinions on this and it balances the other videos I watch. 🥰
I appreciate that! 😀
You are clearly very articulate, knowledgeable, and appear to hold integrity in high regard. I enjoy how you present, especially with your humour and humility. I find you very honest and endearing. These are some of the reasons why I watch your channel and value your thoughts and opinions. I trust what you say, yet I feel In the spirit of healthy discussion I can comment with alternative opinions should I have any. I expect most of your subscribers feel the same way.
I appreciate it is frustrating for you when people polarise any debate by labelling you with terms such as ‘anti-Zwift’. Nevertheless, I can only suggest not wasting too much time and energy addressing such comments as I think most reasonable people can see those people’s intentionally divisive comments for what they are, and dismiss them accordingly. Unfortunately, it seems some people just can’t be reasoned with. I look forward to hearing more of your thoughts in future.
Thank you so much for the thoughtful comment! It really is heartening to have a channel with reasoned voices that all but drown out the loud minority. It's one of my favorite things about having this channel. I have no agenda and therefore don't feel compelled to say (or not say) things that I feel are worth discussing. People have followed along with that and either stay on board for the ride or find other channels. No biggie, I'm not really angling to create some big following so I can quit my job and be a full-time TH-camr. I can't tie up my livelihood in feeding the algorithm and selling my soul to advertisers to keep the heat on. I am happy just to clear enough to keep the channel sustainable and post what I WANT, not what I "need." 😉
I enjoy your content tremendously. Thank you for all of your efforts. You're truly one of the "adults in the room". Ignore the whiners.
Love your takes and honesty, please keep these videos coming!
And I too LOVE Zwift, but the Academy was a bit of a miss for me as well. I was excited to use it as the catalyst to get my training moving in a more structured format, but found the program half-baked. Agree with all of your points and hope Zwift Headquarters takes note.
Question... what does everyone use for easy days on their trainers? D bot? Freeride? I could use some help on how to bridge hard workouts and still get on the bike, without coming to a stop trying to pedal through Titans Grove at 100W.
Thank you! Free rides are tough... sometimes I use TV/Movies as my reward for indoor trainer and keep a rule that I can only watch those things if I get on for those endurance rides. Sometimes I will jump on a group ride with a fixed pace to keep things interesting... just meandering around routes is tough after so many years on the platform, I think Zwift adding more routes and badges would help with some of that, creating a challenge to aim for... but some days it is just like grim death lol
Hi Sarah, Hope you consider making more videos about Zwift and triathlon. Really enjoyed your presentation and knowledge base.
First: Your opinions are always highly valued. I don't agree with 100% of everything you say, but then again I don't agree with 100% of everything ANYONE says. Keep it coming.
Second: I'm a huge Zwift fan. It was life saver for me in 2020 at the start of the COVID lockdown, and in 2021 after I had shoulder surgery and was not allowed to ride outdoors for ~8 months.
Third: I started ZA this year but could not finish because it conflicted with big IRL rides. That said, the first few rides felt like amateur hour in terms of product deployment and refinement. It didn't feel as if Zwift took the event seriously -- the email issues, the ride screwups, the in-ride prompt errors, etc. Any one of these errors would be concerning, but all of these (and more) taken together show ZA wasn't a company priority. I hope there is some soul searching (and uncomfortably frank internal post-mortem meetings) in Zwift Headquarters so they can learn from the mistakes of ZA 2022 and improve ZA 2023.
I didn’t complete the academy this year for a few reasons. First, I didn’t think the workouts were overly beneficial. The duration along with the objective of the workouts were not great quality. Second, the 4 week duration wasn’t long enough to move my fitness and I didn’t feel the workouts were focused enough. They felt poorly planned and thrown together. Lastly, I felt it was too early in the riding season. While my riding window is narrowing I would rather ride outside. I would like to see more focus and structure to the academy. They made this like fast food. You said it best, this is their flagship program and should be flawless.
I'm right there with you! Were it not for these videos, I would have hung it up pretty early on this one!
Cmon back! Tour of watopia vids? Any opinions on rocker plates?
I my part of the world, I am concerned a seasoned rider , but when I started zwifting just over 3 yrs ago I found your channel incredibly helpful ! Sure you have a rant every now and then but that's part of the reason we all keep coming back !! I think U always try to be in the constructive criticism camp !
Personally I didn't do the academy this year mainly it's at a bad time for us southern hemisphere people and Zwiit need to a version of the academy
Maybe call it zwifting gran fondo academy, for us mere mortals,,😁
Oddly enough the academy seems to be a bad time for everyone lol... but it's definitely loss opportune for the southern hemisphere to be sure. I agree they could do much more with the concept. The Run and Tri programs are very amateur driven, not sure why they don't do an amateur prize for the academy!
You nailed it! I've been training for over 50 years, using a power meter for 20+ and VR training from day 1 with tacx videos and a trainer setup. Zwift Achedemy Road 2022 was hardly a real training camp... in 6 workouts..lol .. why so short and buggy? You said it better than anyone.. very enjoyable to watch and well presented. You have the "gift of gab" for sure. Keep it up.
I don't think Zwift's primary goal is to design the Academy to increase your fitness. I think they want to introduce structured training to those who are unfamiliar with workouts. I base that on two observations. First, they tell you can change the bias by up to 25%. If you have to adjust 25% your FTP is way off. I think they are telling riders that they can make bias adjustments. Second, the 7 minute zone 4 blob in the middle of the Pyramids rather than another pyramid set in the middle. They are afraid of the failure rate. Regular users of structured training know that sometimes you blow up and fail.
If you improved your times in the Finish Line ride is it because your fitness improved or because you have a template from the baseline ride? I had a much better Volcano KOM in the finish ride because I knew what my average watts were in baseline and I lost time in the flat and downhill sections on the baseline ride. On the Finish ride I had something left for the steep finish and I gassed it as I hit the flat sections.
Overall, it was fine. It could be better, but it was acceptable given their goals.
I think that's a fair assessment. If you ever have time, take a look at prior years, they have shifted the goalposts pretty drastically. Those of us who have been around see that as a step backwards in some ways, but don't misunderstand it either. I think there is a way to balance the program to both target the introductory level athletes as well as those experienced, remembering that they are trying to attract pro contenders as well. But your comment on the green blob to reduce failure rate is exactly what I am getting at in terms of Zwift solving for adherence, I just don't agree that is the right way to go about it, better to extend recover or reduce number of intervals than blurring the lines. Again, not terrible workouts, just wouldn't consider them good or go-to workouts 🙂
Thanks again for another great video on Zwift! I want to start by saying, don't give those people who are coming down on you by saying you're overly critical a second thought. (give those people a year of frustrations with Zwift and they'll be singing your praise 🙂) You're always quite fair and objective, with very valid complaints. Sometimes you're even a little tooooo easy on them in my opinion. But what I love, is when called for, you're not afraid to call it like it is! There's stuff, Lots of stuff, that is either just plain broken, or is such low hanging fruit for improvements that we're all begging for, that somehow seems to never even hit their radar. 😕
I think we're all so fortunate that we have you as a spokesperson, modest as you might be, that bring these issues up with a voice that just might be heard louder than our at-home grumbling. Many times I find myself screaming out loud while watching your videos... "GD, I'm SO glad she said that out loud and maybe ZHQ will hear it and get-a-freak'n-clue!" 😀
Confession... In my make believe dream world I imagine that you've been hired as the Program Director at ZHQ. You come in guns-a-blazing on day one and shake that place up to get some focused direction to the things we all scream about. 🙂 As a professional software developer of over 30+ years of experience, I'm perplexed and can't for the life of me understand how it takes them soooo long to get the simplest of things done, only then for it to crash and burn the day it rolls out. I'ts like ...GD, don't they have a QA department?!?!?! 😕
My last rant 😀 ... It's hard to believe (and frustrating) in going back to watch these two 1+ year old videos of yours, just how many of these features / bugs haven't Still been fixed or address 😞
th-cam.com/video/v57cllqIVXY/w-d-xo.html
th-cam.com/video/XBzOqdxepc4/w-d-xo.html
Ride On!
You hit me with the Things I Hate About Zwift series 🤣 can't believe how well those aged... It really is disappointing, and I truly am enthusiastic about Zwift. It does frustrate me that they do not have leadership that demands these standards and attention to detail. I think part of it is too many initiatives. Do the basics brilliantly, pick your top 5 issues/features that you want to work on and get them over the finish line. Then and only then do you move on to the next "big thing." From an outsider's perspective, they have individual project teams that are working in silos and there is no evidence of true programs. They probably could use a good Program Manager, they don't even need to be a developer necessarily, but clearly they have too many people steering too many ships over there. I'll credit them with increased agility and improvements, but they aren't where I would think they should be after 7 years.... 😉
Thank you for all your videos. It did help on the ZA workouts. I am not new to structured workout infact that's 95% of what I use zwift for.
I don't know what to make of the workouts, to me they are just part of my overall training plan.
I never got the prompts for both baseline and finish line ride, so it was just going hard at it on both sessions. I am not sure there were any significant gains for me. I averaged 233W on both rides. The segments were similar as well...For me I see the positives. Any workout is a bonus, keeps me ticking over.. personally zwift has been great for me, started at 175W and after 8 months 254W. I am more than happy with the platform. I am not aiming for a pro contract, hence I manage my expectations and use it to get the best out of myself.
Yes I agree for a global platform and brand, those niggles and glitches should never happen. I mean I didn't get a single prompt for both base and final..That's poor, but overall I made the most of what I had
I'm a new Zwift user but a long time road rider. I have learnt a lot on your videos about Zwift. Thanks so much.
Very thorough and insightful comments. It resonates entirely with me. I ended up doing short 3 because they lumped everything in together and it got confusing where to click and what to do. My baseline ride was in German as I couldn’t determine which was the English variant. The segments should have been more obvious as you approach them. The progress bar could be tweaked to show when the next one is coming. And, to lose 4 and 5 for two days was inexcusable. I walked away from Rouvy because they weren’t prepared to change my age category so, I am prepared to walk away from Zwift if they keep taking my subs but making errors this huge.
Totally agree. Feel as a reasonably well trained cyclist ZA wasn't for me. I completed it over 2 weeks as I was recovering from an injury and the low volume of work suited. IMO, it felt like it was aimed at riders new to structured training who would of course get a good bump regardless of the content of the workouts. Don't think I would commit to a longer period without a huge improvement to the structure and content of the workouts.
I think you are making the right points here, this is definitely fair critique. In defense of Zwift we should note that it is still a young company (Startup) and everyone who has worked on one of those understands how chaotic and last minute those businesses operation with understaffed teams but big aspirations. In particular this year it seems that they developed the one feature everyone urged for (guided rides for Baseline and Finishline) and went sloppy on the other part combining it with the internal OKR on User Retention which leads to easyfying the programm for max completion. Thats a classic when individual value is contrarian to the business. The results are clear, the workouts are sloppy, the QA did not exist and the unlocks are same with a different paint. IF ZA Road with the Pro-Contender-Programm is really the annual big thing for Zwift, I have to agree that they should do better.
Loved the series. Watched as I rode and rally helped me prepare mentally and know the mistakes that were coming (30/30’s) 🙈. But most importantly is the deer ok?? 🙏
Hi. From what I have seen on your videos you seem to be very objective and your videos are good. I'm fairly new to zwift. I did all the academy workouts (I think), from base line to finish line. What I miss is suggestions on where I should go from here. I get that to give accurate suggestions I have to put in my goal as a parameter. Hope you understand what I mean.
I was looking forward to the Academy program. I didn't like that the baseline/finishline ride had to be done "in person" - it took me a couple of weeks for my schedule to even fit that in. Then after a couple of rides, the next ride didn't appear and I don't get up at 5:30 in the the morning (before coffee at that!) to fight with the Zwift app. I don't care about unlocks, I was just looking to learn more about types of workouts etc and possibly see some small improvement over a few weeks. Also, it was a little too early in the year for me to have my bike on the trainer - I'd rather ride outside as long as I can.
Had the same issue with the baseline/finishline ride just being awkward to get done due to the requirement to do in a group ride. Made worse by zwift crashing during my first attempt at baseline. The net result of which is it took a while to get the baseline out of the way and then ended up doing the balance of the academy workouts and finish ride in the space of 8 days. Safe to say this wasn't ideal in terms of recovery for a novice.
That's an excellent point! I should have mentioned that, and completely forgot. People on the fringes of peak hours or with tough schedules struggle to arrange the baseline and finish line rides. This year, with route based workouts, it was totally possible for Zwift to offer the solo endeavor for credit through the workout menu. It would have helped a lot of people!
And you're spot on about timing. For the lion's share of people on Zwift (Northern hemisphere dwellers). early September, is just too early. I capitalized on some wetter days or late work days to be indoors, but choosing to savor what is left of the summer against Zwift, the choice is a no-brainer. The Academy Tri and Run are MUCH better in terms of being placed at times where people are happy to stay warm and dry indoors. I would like to see them push this back another month, but they have really been glued to this September launch for some time 😐
Spot on analysis of ZA 2022. I guess I was hoping for a “typical” academy. In previous years the workouts were so hard I seldom earned “all the stars”. This year I could complete two workouts in one day if needed (and this year that is exactly what was needed). From being in the rubber-banded baseline group to having the Apple TV workout problems to using the finish line ride as leg openers for a CX race, it wasn’t the best experience 🙄
I was very glad to see the improvements to the baseline and finish line rides though. There is a lot of potential there. What ended up not being as useful were the final results. There is the issue with the phenotypes, and of course my data were unusable, but I was also disappointed to see personal gains couched in the context of the larger population data. I saw many comments from disappointed zwifters noting how Zwift says they haven’t improved because they were in the same percentile at the end as they were at the beginning. If everyone is completing the program and getting even small gains you should expect a distribution shift. So perhaps distribution descriptive data are not the most useful metric for showing personal improvement.
Hi Sarah, please consider creating more videos about Zwift/everything endurance. You’re good at it!
Ok, where to start? You are spot on in your content and it is based on fact, science and experience. Don’t worry about those uninformed reactions. Here’s an overarching question/ observation. I think the effectiveness of ZA depends upon the objective that Zwift has for the program. It feels like they have multiple objectives. Perhaps , inclusiveness, completion and training improvement. My experience is if you have multiple objectives, especially if they are not compatible, you end up with a watered down program that doesn’t meet the target for anyone. Ok what I liked. I’m not multilingual, but having the option for different languages was a good move and makes the program work for a wider audience, interms of accessibility. Shorter than 8 weeks a good move, but my life isn’t glued to my trainer and I had to really hustle and manipulate my schedule to stay on track to complete on time. I like the option of an expanded timeframe, with more workouts, to allow for both improved fitness and allowing for those of us who have a life outside of the “pain cave!” I really like the concept of creating a workout track,call it advanced if you like, that provides an option for those who are looking to really commit the time as well as experience a more difficult and longer duration program. Say 8 weeks with 60 to 75 minute workouts. With that the unlocks are different because this is a more arduous effort with a bigger commitment. So, think three tracks, alongside the pro contender, beginner ( short workout, short duration) intermediate ( longer workout, perhaps same duration) then advanced( longer workouts, longer duration and different unlocks.) I am not convinced my fitness improved all that much with a four week program. Did my times improve, yes in all three segments, but I think that may have had more to do with me knowing the baseline times and competing against myself. 😉As for the unlocks, they do nothing for me and I don’t “ wear them with pride “ as they are not unique/cool nor do they represent what I really consider an effort worth the representation. Think the Tron bike, that is kind of cool and people recognize the effort it took to get it. Phenotype, I just plain disregard it and the percentages I got in the final email are not that useful as I can’t determine it the percentage means I’m in the top or bottom percentage. Does 20% mean you are in the top 20% or the bottom 20%? I may have missed something there. Next year I am waiting a day into the ZA before I start. I was part of the “rubber band” initial baseline ride and it rendered my comparisons useless as they kept that result as a comparison data point. For example,it was 2 minutes faster on the long section than my next best effort. Not possible. Anyway, overall I enjoy ZA for what it is for me, a forced period of weeks where I do some structured training, but I’d certainly sign up for the advanced slot, longer duration, longer workouts, different (cool , proud to wear, unlocks) version if it was offered. Lastly, they really need to publicize in advance the value of doing a FTP test prior to ZA to help ensure your workouts are well calibrated. Love your series content as it helps me prepare for each ride and know where the glitches are so I can ignore them when they pop up. Watch out for those deer, they are not car friendly 😉
Teddy!!
Couldn't agree more with everything here... 7 years on and avatars are still blah, more maps, while I know are a bigger ask are so welcome, and BADGES ARE LIFE!!!! But specific to the Academy, I would love to see that 2016 program reintroduced. To do that you were not playing around. Maybe 10% of people would finish that program, and I might be generous in that estimate. That's what I really was getting at about kit, you wore THAT kit, you were a boss! Maybe offer something else, a special badging or customization that helps you to tell the community that you were one of the hard asses that survived the REAL academy lol. But, realistically, I could have saved 30 minutes of video with the TLDR of "UNDERWHELMING."
I'll be curious as to the direction Zwift takes going forward. The greater community feedback and desires are growing at a rate faster than Zwift is making those updates to the platform. As anticipated, the pandemic Zwift converts who stuck around are now finding themselves less than satisfied with the sluggish rate of growth on the platform and the less than stellar execution. Great, they've learned to be more agile in fixing *some* mistakes, but perhaps don't publish them to begin with? The longer people stay on the platform, the shorter patience gets. I really feel like the people who do come to my comments and try to "white knight" for Zwift, haven't been around for more than 6 months... 😉
@@EverythingIsPhotogenic Yes! Badges are life! There should be pages and pages of them - endless challenges to keep you motivated. 😍
Great summary thank you. This was my first Zwift Academy and I did enjoy it. However I agree with you on many points.
1. How much am I really going to improve in 6 workouts over 3 weeks in my case.
2. I was also wound up by the silly mistakes in the onscreen prompts. That stuff is just poor and lazy.
3. Changing too much at once around your biggest event is just asking for trouble.
4. Finally I agree about the phenotype calculations. Having some knowledge of statistics I was very surprised that it was done by percentile. I thought it might be a little more sophisticated than that.
Having said all that, I think if Zwift take on the feedback, and employ some basis project planning tools and quality control, they should be able to make Academy 2023 a winner. I’m willing to give it a try.
Thanks again for your great content. Go Bills.
I share in your conclusion. I hope they listen and adapt, the community speaks up in their forums, someone should be listening!. And of course, GO BILLS!!
I enjoyed the academy, didn't get much from it though, but it's only short term so not going to be getting big gains. Only 5 second on medium section and 15 on the volcano KOM, actually slower on the sprint but I think I didn't go hard enough on it 🤷🏻♂️
Love the videos and enjoy your 'unique' presentation 😂, keep it up and I'll keep watching....
Hi Sarah! I miss your videos. Btw Zwift Academy 2022 raised my potential considerably. I´m now on Tour of Makuri Island. Wish you the best of wealth/health and so on. /Pär
Hi! First of all thanks for your work! I do really absorb the info ℹ️ in your Videos!
I am currently working on the „Build Me Up“ Workout Plan on Zwift, having done the „FTP Builder“ Last Year. I am wondering how little recovery is put into these plans. So far my body works just fine and adapted to the training load. But you have sometimes 5 workouts to do per week. Leaving you with two rest days. And They are pretty much all tempo zone. So besides week 12 which is the last week before the ftp test, they do not implement recovery, nor they point out that it should be good to have some recovery rides in between….
I would love to see you making a video about the current state and quality of Zwifts workout plans.
MY MAN TEDDY
He was ready for his closeup today!!!
In contrast to last year's ZA, I actually saw a substantial improvement in my performance between the baseline and finish line rides. Last year my performance actually dropped when comparing the 2. This year I managed to improve all 3 segments (56s on the Volcano KOM is amazing for a heavier rider like me), even with my accidental unclipping in the last 100m of the sprint.
The biggest difference between ZA2021 and ZA2022? Well, my 6 month old is now 18 months old and I actually get a decent amount of sleep 😅.
I'm going to need you to start making more videos more often. More Zwift and training stuff, actually I'll let you choose your best judgement. Thanks, Andy.
excellent summary, overall za is a great opportunity to commit to a structured program and when you're on there you would think every cyclist on zwift is doing them - great atmosphere and inspiring. The phenotype is probably the most useless part of za, as I suspect due to the shortness of the segment there would be many sprinters - what's more important is to see some improvement that can be expressed in the finish line ride. But we all know 4 weeks won't see the adaptions (I would have liked 6 as I had to boot camp the remaining sessions - no good for recovery), although for newer riders probably yes. I think za needs a few fondo like events (like tour of zwift), to bang along with groups as a compliment to the interval workouts. I mean in the real world that's what you would do to put some variety into the training academy. Some go hard, some go easy, all good.
You are spot on with your critique. This was my first ZA and likely my last. Zwift is software and I expect some issues however the oversights and missteps were due to lack of attention and proper testing. The execution felt lazy and that is not what I am paying for. Zwift is nothing more than eye candy for me now as I have moved on to better platforms for my personal development. Keep the videos and critique coming and ignore the negativity.
Smart, articulate, informed assessment. Thank you.
The iOS thing was the real killer for me. It took almost 3 weeks to get it fixed, so I couldn't do 3 of the workouts unless I caught them as a group workout. Which wasn't possible with WO1 in week 2 of the academy. (To their credit, they did start adding group workouts for the missing workouts by the end of week 2.) It made the whole thing a hassle. I really enjoy Zwift, but their inability to fix problems or to even do a quality check on their workouts makes me question the company at times. Enjoy your videos, look forward to more.
I didn’t complete Zwift Academy, purely because four weeks wasn’t long enough, unless I sacrificed other riding, which I didn’t want to.
I always appreciate your thoughts and insight, Sarah. What about using/tweaking the FTP Builder program? It's a longer program, but I would do that if someone from Zwift would give me personalized feedback - much like hiring a personal trainer.
Thanks for the advice over the academy workout series. Showed pursuiter for start and finish emails swapping the the TT at start for sprinter at the end according to emails. Even thou the final sprint time was about the same and and long effort was massive improvement. Some workout days back to back or a couple days apart. Gave myself a few days of easy rides and rest from last workout to finishline ride. Seeing results in in zwift races already. Finished all workouts as with the extra two for me as a I do not qualify for the contact finals anyways due to being non binary person. Good advice with the pacing on the longer free ride parts. Would add try to find a route that is flat or steady uphill for thoes time blocks as a downhill or rollars can affect power output. Still another month before my CX season starts and now doing zwift race series in the ZP cat above for a workout or targeting longer rides with parts where it pushes the intensity up for extended time. Thoes 30/15 sec sets turned into just a straight about 4min high vo2 in parts of the last workout. Agree with longer recovery periods need to be easier and allow a short step up interval for trainers adjust for low to high wattage resistence then have a solid target interveal instead of first few seconds for trainer to come up. So 2min is 2min, not 1:50 or how long it take for the trainer to raise the watts on the shorter high power target blocks. Keep making these training videos as it is helpful with some forms of cycling doing events year around. Good luck with the snow this winter, send some of the weather out west.
Glad you got some value out of the Academy, and thanks for sharing your experience! I love to hear the different experiences and perspectives! I'll be happy to send you some snow!!! 🤣
100% agree with your assessment of the phenotype demarcation. It shouldn't be a comparison it should be based on individual performance.
It's definitely a weird choice on their part. Especially considering the data is out there for them to use... probably easier than what they are currently doing from a programming standpoint.
You've mentioned the 2016 academy as a benchmark several times. I've looked in your archive and didn't see any content on it. Did I miss it or is there somewhere else I can go to get the depth and quality of analysis that you've provided for other academies? I'm thinking about doing it over the winter. I am so appreciative of your extensive knowledge and your gift for teaching . Keep up the good work!
I did two baseline rides English and Spanish..And I never got anything back from Zwift telling me what kind of rider I am. I pretty much know what I am using sufferfest/wahoo/xert over the years. They all had me as a rouleur. But, for some reason, I couldn't get into it these academy rides this year. I've always loved all your critiques keep them coming..
It's just silly, seems like a feature that they could at least execute on, even if the phenotypes aren't based on the best algorithm, get the email out!
Love your Channel, you're extremely knowledgable. What I can't comprehend, is why Zwift does whatever they can to goad people into sprinting/racing/smashing the "Ghost Rider" when in reality, the only way to get faster is the 80/20 principle......80% Zone 2 and the rest Vo2 intervals.......time and time again, the experts preach this approach but Zwift does just the opposite by not encouraging Zone 2. It's almost like there is an agenda to burn people out as quickly as possible to avoid having too many people on their servers.........will Meta come along and get it right? Appreciate your thoughts!!!!
I agree with you! The ghost rider is the most requested feature on the platform, but it is a bit heavy handed... it's frustrating to see it while I am doing a structured workout or an endurance ride. Let me cancel out of it so it's not sitting in my face, just like outside on bike computers with segment/KOM tracking, it will pop up and you can abort if you're not going for a PR that day.
I don't know what Meta's angle is... it kind of reads as a partnership/integration rather than acquisition, but I haven't been following too closely of late. I like the idea of an infusion of more capital and programming skill.... but Zuck has the potential to spoil things as well...
all the workout above zone 2 is included in 20%. Ideally you should do only 2 workouts a week. you don't need a "zone 2 workout". just ride zone 2. 60 minutes for basic base/ fitness maintenance. then when you have more time, 2-3-4 hours or longer for long endurance and fatigue resistance development. But yes, if people are just new to sport or not understand how structured and periodization of training works, they will just do workout everyday thought that's something to "go thru quickly as possible"... and burned out.
As epidemiologist you had me at confounding…I’d like them to incorporate some acknowledgment of base training. Obviously in 4 weeks no time for this, but to me it gives wrong idea of where gains mostly come from.
I did ZA and think what I best did was perform the test better the second (final) test. Different with the short and medium was significant (and positive) while the long was barely better. I may well improved over the 3 week period but I did do outdoor riding as well as the Zwift workouts. But I'm pretty sure I just executed the shorter tests better as far a timing the start and managing the effort for the duration in question. In the end, I don't care as it was a way to fill up my off-days with something different. The real test was I went out and did a 100 mile ride at 21.0 mph. As a 65 year old, I'm very happy with THAT performance. Whether ZA helped or not I cannot say. But it did give me something else to add to my training.
It really is tough to tell with the baseline/finish line how much comes from the Academy, other training, or simply familiarity with the test and optimizing for the segments. But your point is excellent, sometimes a little variation in your training can be a way of breathing new life into your riding. Just because for a specific training block keeping things consistent might be ideal, doesn't mean that you shouldn't change the stimulus a bit over the course of the year. Annual periodization is built upon that very premise, but what is the most important is: is your training appealing? Because if you're not interested in doing it, you're more likely to blow it off or find something else. Zwift definitely does a great job offering up variety for those who really need it in that moment!
The wife and I were so looking forward to our first academy this year (new to cycling). After the first issues with our start ride, we gave up. Maybe next year
And that's a bummer. Zwift owes the community better!
I love the idea of a "plus" or "extended" ZA, but what i would really enjoy was an additional 4 weeks of targeted workouts e.g. 4wks of VO2 max focus or sprint focus or SS/threshold focus to address potential gaps in your "phenotype".
About 7 minutes into this video and reminded of why this is one of my favorite channels.
Thank you so much!
I agree with much that was said. I'd also add a little annoyance I had doing the program. I did the program in French, and so many times the message telling me «hey next up you have x effort with x rest » had so many mistakes in it, telling me the intervals would be 2minutes but on the left hand side on the work-out I see that it was not the case. Its not a big deal, I would just know to trust what I saw in the menu and not in those prompts, but it gave me the feeling that some of the features of ZA were rushed.
Please tell me they didn't hit the workout instructions with Google Translate.... I mean these days, they could use a program like fiver to hire a freelancer fluent in both language to properly translate. It's just those little touches, like they hit the easy button. You're right, not a "big deal" in that you can still follow along, but I am of the persuasion that if you are going to do something, do it right!
Hi, it's unfortunate that you faded out of TH-cam. It's a mystery to me how you didn't have way more views. Your personality,cat, presentation was,is on high level and I leaned lot. Hope you are ok doing ok
Hi Sarah, is there a chance that you will be reviewing training plans availible in Zwift? I do MTB marathons and I'am curious if the Silgletrack Slayer is any good or just a waste of time. It's 10 weeks long, so It would really suck if its useless. :) Best regards!
It's a good idea, it would certainly be the intellectual exercise rather than the follow along and review, but might be something I could pick up during the off season 😀
Yes, Yes and Yes! Very well said! 👏👏🚴♂️💨
With the amount of data Zwift collects during these events it would be cool the see AI-based recommendations for individual workout plans. They go so far to give you a phenotype which is so predictable if you know your numbers. Even for pro contenders this would be cool as Zwift could judge how these riders respond to different training stimuli and how they recover over time. I hope Zwift has something in the pipeline.
It really would be very cool, but I don't know that Zwift is handling that data/archiving it properly... I hope they are, seems like a missed opportunity for sure!
Love your videos. Stayed away from academy. Recent upgrades to Apple TV make it hard to find favorite rides now. Print so small. Not an improvement foe me. More of a pain
Yeah, from what I am seeing when I have time to check the forum, is Apple TV folks are taking a beating with some of the changes.... and in Zwift fashion, they aren't being particularly agile in mitigating some of the itrouble.
I got caught up with the issues on the baseline rides, and I totally agree with you that it was really embarrassing. I’m an experienced Zwifter, but if I was new to the platform it would have put me off. How did they ever think that having the banding turned, and impacting times for the segment, would work? Grammar and textual errors in the prompts make it seem like someone’s hobby project rather than a professional training platform.
Fair criticism 100%, as always, Sarah.
Late to the comments, but FWIW:
At a micro-level: Zwifthub was just launched, so you know that ZA got the minimum.
At a macro-level: Zwift has been suffering from lack of cohesive direction and vision for a long time. Feels like the chaos we experience echoes the chaos at Zwift leadership. IMHO they need a major shake-up to get on track. I am rooting for them, but my experience in the corporate world does not give me confidence.
Sorry about your run in with a deer...happened to me 3x. Always a "process" to get car(s) repaired. Thanks for great content. Your fair assessment of the "haters" and Zwift's RA was dead on. In one of this year's Road Academy videos you mentioned reading/studying about the different energy systems and why you thought the workout missed the mark. I've read a few of the Friel books you recommended (previous video), and watched some of the Peter Attia and Trainer Road videos. Do you have any other sources (books, etc) that you'd recommend? I'd like to make or modify some of my workouts on Training Peaks and am looking for sources to help better understand what to not put into a workout when working a specific energy system/systems.
This happened to me online from a Women’s group. I was so hurt from the response to my comments I don’t use the platform anymore nor do I want to be involved in any clubs.
Are you going to do videos on Tri Academy? 🤞 Would be good to hear more insight into these workouts
On the fence, but leaning toward yes. I HATE the treadmill... but I truly LOVE ZA Tri. It's focused on Amateurs and not just picking the best of the best... I wish they would carve out a part of the cycling academy to do that!
Exactly correct on the completion I did the first 3 workouts then stopped nothing to do with the quality or anything on zwifts end ..I came down with covid!
Prime example, you are one of several who have mentioned getting Covid and it doesn't provide enough time to recover and finish! Hope you're feeling better!
Thanks I'm starting my training again in a few days I feel much better..but I did lose 11 pounds weight in 5 days so I'm not expecting much
Had pencilled in the Finish Line Ride for the weekend……then woke up and tested positive for COVID so now in isolation from the rest of the family and won’t be completing the academy this year. Zwift leave so much on the table to criticise that we’re many years and improvements away from any legitimate accusation of ‘bashing’.
I did the first baseline ride on the 12th, had to repeat on 16th. Then I couldn’t access workouts on my iPad and I finally Got an email on the 26th. I got hit with every failure and so I didn’t even start. Not bad for my first time 😅
Hi :) I loved following your videos on zwift and training. Everything is ok? Do you plan to come back to making videos? Best to you
I felt that the workouts were not that hard but I increased the difficulty in the last few reps to make it a little tougher. I would appreciate, from Zwift, a little advice on pacing the segments apart from “this is not a race”. I hit the first two segments too hard and even with the extended segments in between I struggled in the last long segment and finished the final ride 45 seconds slower than my initial time. My phenotype, at 60yrs old, was also “sprinter” because I finished in the 72% percentile. I’m not a sprinter. While I did improve by a second on the sprint segment and by 8 seconds on the medium segment I did not feel that my fitness improved overall. And I do agree that some guidance on rides in between the workouts would be helpful because I did feel tired before I did the final ride and I think it was due to riding so much outside(weather has been great here in Colorado) in between the workouts.
Definitely tough to come inside this early in the year in the norther hemisphere... I totally phoned in my finish line ride because I was too preoccupied with enjoying outdoors and didn't care lol.
A ZA training plan would be awesome!
I 'm here for
a) Cat (Hi Teddy)
b) An honest take
In the wider world -
"Sweat Sells" bite sized HIIT, especially with faux complexity to justify the Price, thinking more of Gym classes, the static bike company or online "Fitness" courses.
Online fitness, I just want some simple exercises to maybe fix cycling induced imbalance or some stretching, not a hard sell of snake oil or a "Yikes, what am watching here, make it stop"
No, your content is very informative. Nothing to do with Zwift bashing.
Actually, making fair observations and suggesting how things could be better is nothing but promoting the platform and motivating them to be better, to listen to feedback, engaging at its pure nature.
Social media is indeed very polarized and don't accept constructive feedback and criticism. You're awesome and one of the reasons why I am on Zwift. So, I don't believe these people are being fair.
for me, the only reason i didnt the the academy workouts was because i knew looking at them they wouldnt be challenging enough. im not saying that to be like “oh look at me im so strong!!” but… holding ftp intervals for 90 seconds with rests? zone 3 intervals? i understand why the workouts are designed like they are, but for me they would downzise the quality of my training. even my buddies would do two or three of the workouts in one sitting and then go race. for me this shows that they wernt challenged enough. so i agree with you, they are definitely missing a tier of riders who are coming in well trained but would be open for new workouts to try
Nice 👌🏾
I have heard criticism of previous workouts from zwift that they sometimes have a habit of the efforts not being long enough or the rest being too long and some of the plans that want you to ride for several days a week could make them burn out a bit
I have been following a polarized training regime for the past year and have progressed more as a rider during that time than ever before. I mention that because this year I did think about how ZA would integrate into my polarized training. What I settled on was to do two Zwift Academy rides per week and have those count as my "hard" rides for the week (Zone 3 in the polarized 1, 2, 3 Zone set-up). Four other days per week were set aside for my endurance rides (Zone 1 in the polarized 1, 2, 3 Zone set-up). That worked well for me. If a workout didn't seem to be pushing me firmly enough into Polarized training's Zone 3, I just increased the bias. With 25% to play with, I had plenty of wiggle room to feel the burn! I agree that leaving it up to the user to integrate ZA into their overall workout plans is asking a bit much, especially for beginning riders. I don't care about unlocks in ZA. Probably because they are so...meh.
I feel like you are probably a good representation of a large segment of the community. People who have figured out how to balance their own plan while still ticking off the deliverables of the academy. I think You're spot on, what some folks may be missing is the knowledge/experience to use that bias slider effectively, it's a bit of trial and error and you need to have some consistent training under your belt to know where your limits are. And the unlocks.... part of me is thinking: oh, don't whine about the unlocks, you don't even use them, so who cares. But, the other part of me thinks: When there IS a good unlock, I can't wait to get it and use it, to give my avatar some flair or something unique.... meh is the perfect description of ZA unlocks 😛
Carry on unchanged Sarah👩🎓if people find it distasteful they can exercise their right to seek content elsewhere.
You're bang on the money lady IMHO👍
Thanks for the backup! 😁
Yes,yes! Zwift are you listening! The workouts are too short for high volume riders.
I did the baseline ride by mistake in the sunday morning, instead of the finish line. I had sprint result of 25 seconds with 680w average, same as first baseline ride with 640w average. To finish the academy I had to do it again chosing the correct finish line ride in the evening. I managed again 25sec on the "sprint" but this time I focussed on having the speed well up before the start of it, probably started a bit too early, and ended up marginally faster at 25.point something again. Ironically I had 580w average, so a full 100w less than in the morning, but basically the same result. The point of this rant is that how you time this sprint is way more important than your actual sprint level. I think it should be a pure watt-test, not a test of how much speed you can maintain after coming into it. Having the sprint result be very random makes the whole phenotype calculation just as random. I heard many laughing including myself, at finally becoming a sprinter at age 50+ :-)
And after doing the finish line ride I am back to the nightmare of the baseline ride - no e-mail. Not that the inights in the e-mail are going to matter, but when the idea is that you get it, you want to see what they say, had some improvement in the first segment, mainly due to better pacing, as I had an idea of what power to hold, and did not start too hard. Also improved on the last one, but not the first time I did it today, then I was actually a few seconds slower, in the evening 14 sec faster. Would like to see how this makes a difference, maybe I am now a puncheur in the zwift world :-)
Definitely good points on the sprint! I'm a bit of a purist when it comes to sprints, they are tested OUTDOORS and over a fixed distance or time frame, I don't know anyone who has matched their sprint performance indoors to outdoors. It doesn't make that information useless, especially if you race on Zwift, but there are so many variables on an indoor trainer in a sprint, not least of which being starting flywheel speed. But hey, we can all just be the next Mark Cavendish because Zwift said!
@@EverythingIsPhotogenic yes, I must admit that I lack confidence on going all out standing sprint on the trainer,, but that is another thing. Still no email by the way, no idea why.
Have to add some more info. Got my emails today, so thanks to zwift for that. As it turns out, it seems like the watt on the segment is all they care about, and not the speed/time. So the info given before about how the time on each segment was what that mattered then was misleading. As it turns out, my finish line effort where I used probably 20 secs to accelerate to top speed before sprint segment started, got me the best sprint time, but the lowest watts. So after two baseline rides, where I was defined as a sprinter from higher watts, I now became a pursuiter. Sprinter in the morning attempt, and pursuiter in the evening :-) However the suggestions about different training to improve different abilities was sensible enough, but would apply to everybody regardless of phenotype.
I have to admit the shortened time period had me rushing to finish this year, zwift racing knocks 3 days out of my training ( I don't want to arrive to a race burnt or try and push through a VO2 effort after a 1 hour race, but the excercises felt like a good fit for the zwift racing, not many races over 50min and the efforts felt just about achievable. As for the phenotype, I think the percentile rating didn't affect the type given, at least in my case and a few friends, in my case the high short segment value in comparison with the long segment would at least with regards to the Coggan chart show a sprinter phenotype. Are the percentile values useful, no, but I don't thinks a Coggan chart definition is going to help if I'm falling into a category of middle-age git hanging on the what little watts I have. At least the highlight some workouts I may find useful. P.s. keep up the good work
I was most disappointed by some of the poor workout design. I get that a lot of those issues were down to Zwift wanting to make it accessible. However the text prompts being inaccurate or even simply being cut and pasted was really not on. The prompts from the baseline ride were on the finish line ride. Not good enough and a sign that they aren’t testing adequately.