Why I Changed My Mitre Saw - HiKOKI / Metabo HPT C3610 DRA Review
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 31 ก.ค. 2024
- In this video I talk about why I changed my mitre saw from the Axminster White to the HiKOKI / Metabo HPT 36v cordless mitre saw model C3610DRA. I compare both saws in this video, and review the features, plus what I like and dislike about each of them.
Skill Builder video about the HiKOKI saw, Robin Clevitt : • Robin sets up HiKOKI's...
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Really nice saw! I have a 10" Hitachi chop saw (fixed) and for the cost, it has been fabulous, well made, etc. accurate out of the box. Nice to know that even though they've changed their name to Hikoki, they still made good miter saws. If I was in the market, I'd definitely consider the Hikoki.
Thanks for this candid review, I'll give Hikoki another look. Take care.
heywood62 you won’t be disappointed, I have the entire lineup (Metabo HPT here in the states) amazing tools!
I’m a joiner by trade and I use the DeWALT 18v mitre saw and i love it it handles all the site work I do and it’s very light so I can take it out of the van and use it in the workshop too. Anyway great video as always Keith can’t wait for the mitre saw station video 👌👍
Your old saw looks like my old Electra Beckum. I wasn't really looking at Hikoki for my new saw. I will check them out. Really enjoying your work and the type of videos you produce.👍
Great video. Same as others have said the Axminster saw is similar to the Electra Beckum KGS 301/331. I bought my EB in 2004/2005 is very high quality and still going strong today and is a fantastic unit. Agreed though the head unit is very heavy to pull forward and down.
I seem to remember the Axminster was a re-badged Elektra Beckum, taken on when Elektra wasn't doing great in the UK. It was one of very few mitre saws fitted with an induction motor and sounded so sweet compared to the brushed alternatives. It also halved in price when Axmninster took it over and I think they were slightly under £200. Great little cheap machines and run forever. The disadvantage of the induction motor is they are too bulky for a double bevel but well worth the compromise for the quiet running.
Nice new saw. Your old saw had one very cool feature....It's name. .AxMinister is an awesome. Sounds like a metal band.
Nice one Keith - it's great that they've added a power adapter. I have the current version of your old saw (Metabo KGS 254) the fence is still a bit tricky to get square!
Hoooooooo Hokey Cokey Cokeee 🎼😀
Good video. I’m in the market for a new compound mitre saw. Will have to consider this as an option now. 👍
Nice video Keith! Thanks for sharing it with us.👌👍😎JP
Highlight of the week! Brb. Getting the snacks for this one :D
Opening shot Hikoki looks like its saying i'm coming for you old friend.
Oh them Guns!
😂😂
I have a Charnwood W691 extractor. Works great with my Record Power PT260. Definitely recommend it!
I'm new to your channel and also from the UK Southeast, and every time you said the name Hikoki I went "You put your left arm in
Your left arm out
In, out, in, out
You shake it all about"
Great video 👍
Top video again bro. I'm just getting started using a low cost macallister one atm whilst I'm learning. Started using it last week to build my work bench ( what I showed you in Instagram ) definitely good to watch what the possibilitys will be for my work shop in a few years.
Cheers Adam, looks like it does the job nicely
Great review.
Was the Hikoki easy to set up? Did you have to put your left arm in, left arm out, in, out, in, out and shake it all about?
Great review Keith sir
I don't think I'll be upgrading my mitre saw until Aldi or LIDL bring out their cordless versions! I guess I'll have to stick to my 15 year old B&Q special until that day comes around!
Great video Keith. I love the bit where your girlfriend perfectly demonstrates the difference between the saws that you were describing :-) And changing the battery once in 3 months, wow that surprised me!
Yeah it surprised me too! Cheers 👍
Got a Charnwood chip collector ,10 years old still going strong.
Heaviness and clunkiness making old saw difficult for your girl friend reminds me of my mother (sorry). Mum trained and worked as a nurse in wartime Liverpool. After the war, she was bored. Answered an advert to do pioneering family health project in northwest Nigeria. She went (met my dad in Katsina) and drove a pickup truck (caled kit cars back then) with camping gear and all her stuff from village to village focusing on chief's harems as a way to reach the influencers. She did her own truck maintenance but she couldn't deal with punctures. She wasn't heavy enough to undo nuts on wheels so had to wait for someone to come along, flag them down, and get help with the long-handled spanner to take wheels off and put spare on. Fond memories
Wait till you get that AC adapter, you can run the entire Multivolt line on the adapter unlike dewalts Flexvolt with the adapter only working on the Mitersaw. No power change as well which is fantastic and the adapter is quite skookum! 🍻🍻
When your lady let the old saw back up again it nearly took her with it hahah :P
🤣
you had me chuckling with this one too :-))) Poor Ria (hope I spelled that correctly), you could have warned her lol
MARRY THAT GIRL....
for sure
Hey Keith just a suggestion about the mitre saw dust collection check out Bob at I like to make stuffs miter saw station built.....love ya work mate
Oh wow i just noticed your subscriber number has increased, almost 100k Keith, 🍾🍻🍾🍻
Thanks!
The big guns scene was hilarious 😂
Living in Norwich, I take it you know about the tool show at the football ground on Thursday Friday Saturday? Good vid
The Axminster saw is Electra Beckum. I have their dust/chip extractor. It’s about 40 years old and gets regular use. I think it’s German or Austrian. It works as good as the day I bought it. Not bad value then.
Hi Keith let me know when you list your sander you mentioned in this video on ebay so I can look out for it , I am from Norwich too cheers Jason
My ex cut his hand and finger on one of them about 3 weeks ago! He had a lot of Stitches! He is very lucky he didn’t loose his hand or worse 😥😩
I hope you are enjoying the make over! Of your workshop! 👌🏻
Ouch!!! Thank you 😄
Great vid! Looking forward to the miter station build :D And having the extension arms out in front is a HUGE advantage in a small workshop. Looks like a great tool. Wonder why they don't make table saws?
I'm hoping that they're working on one for future release... As well as a track saw! I still dream of being able to use just one brand of battery !
Tips.
Very important if you would like to saw with precision. (avoid torsion as much as possible)!
Always choose a Miter saw with a handle positioned in a vertical line above the saw blade.
Everything must be aligned, slide rails, handle, and saw blade,it is much better this way the blade will not tilt.
Because there is some torsion in the aluminum housing .
And choose an engine with softstart on it to prevent wear of the gear and worm shaft.
It is very important that everything is aligned.
Here are some examples to show how the handle must be positioned above the blade.
Bosch gcm 800 sj / Bosch gcm 8 sjl / Evolution rage 3 / FESTOOL KS 60 / HITACHI C12RSH2 / FESTOOL KS 60 E KAPEX / Metabo KGSV 72 Xact
(This also is the case with the Miter saw without the slide rails).
If you want you can test it yourself at home if there is torsion in the aluminum housing.
Step-1. First you make a saw cut from +-5 mm deep in to a flat piece of wood about +- 20 mm thick. To this with the normal handle positioned on the right side of the Miter saw.
Step-2. Then repeat this by pushing the saw blade down with your hand (finger) on the aluminum protective cover were the saw blade is cased in. Just now only do this without the running engine.
Step-3. Now you can see if the saw blade will be positioned in or next to the saw cut. If the saw blade is (+- 0,2 / 0,5 mm) next to the saw cut then there is torsion in the aluminum housing.
Step-4. therefor it is much better to choose a Miter saw with the handle positioned vertical in line above the saw blade.
Conclusion: how further away the handle is from the saw blade how more chance of torsion in the aluminum housing. .
I'm glad companies are acknowledging you and your channel. It's about time they do? I don't own any of Hikoki tools but other TH-camrs who have received them, have only good things to say about them. Not only that, but they are in your favorite color too!!
Good morning Keith, many thanks for your video, very professional!! I'd like to buy this saw and I'd like to ask you how much is accurate in 90 deg or 45 deg angle cut. Did you check it?
I have the Electra beckum kgs 300 which look identical to the Axminster white saw you have, I like the quiet induction motor on it and it’s built like a tank lol
Yeah looks the same 👍
Hi do you know if 240v hikoki 8 inch comes with worklight ...cheers
That Axminster definitely looks durable and repairable in many ways though - sometimes I prefer the older stuff just for this reason. I'd probably change those springs out though :)
Hitachi always made good mitre saws though, you couldn't really go wrong with one.
That Axminster looks as cheap has hell. Good luck trying to find parts for it.
@@bighands69 any tool with an induction motor isnt cheap... But ok sure if you say so
does it have a depth stop on the hikoki
Your axminster on is the same as my Elektra Beckum one, in fact for years I've assumed it was the same saw that you 'Diresta'd' and painted white.
Spot on its Electra Bekham
When you demonstrated the play on the two saws you waggled them both and said they were both pretty solid. I could SEE the play from the film! This is why i use a cross-cut-sled on the table saw to do all important-to-the-project cuts. Never fails. Never an issue. However, with a mitre saw it's always concentrating on giving a neutral pull etc.. Oh, and the sound is a bit weird on this one Keith?
There is no play in the rails on either saw, it's just movement of the body of the saw
Welcome to the gun show lmao.. Love it mate
some of your speed difference is the teeth of the blades. The old one has a finish style blade with a high tooth count, and the new has a more general use blade.
Well done. Nice presentation and very informative. Cannot see the Hikoki mitre saw on your amazon affiliate link! But found it on Amazon anyway. It’s not cheap is it at over £500.00!
Cheers I'll make sure I get it added!
Just been looking at videos and didn’t know you had Hikoko saw good video but I will stick with my Milwaukee fms254 saw with a 12 amp the only thing that I wish Milwaukee would do is have a mains adapter like hikoko and Dewalt for when you have it in your workshop maybe l should get my mate who is electronic engineer to make something 🤔 well thanks for your video 👍👏👏
Another great video Keith! Out of curiosity is it possible to cut rebates that are the entire death of the workpiece with the HiKOKI or have you got to put a spacer piece in between?
Yeah you'd need a sacrificial piece behind the workpiece 👌
Induction motors take a little longer to get up to full speed, they are great for bigger tools and are less likely to trip a circuit as they have a softer start. I think those springs on the Axminster are behind the cut speed and are probably a design decision that leads to a better cut quality. You can't rush a cut and stall the saw if you can't push it down without resistance. I'd say it's more of a finishing saw, put a really fine blade on it and I bet it would produce a cut like glass.
Have you thought of removing one of the springs??
As I mentioned in the comments on your old Mitre Station series (still haven't gotten around to build that thing...) , I have the same saw, labelled as an Elektra Beckum KGS 254, I guess they built those with another colour scheme for Axminster.
As you might or might not know, Elektra Beckum was bought by Metabo some 20 years ago. Which was recently bought by Hitachi. Circle of Life, anyone?
I have the same gripes with the saw, plus it takes ages to spin down to a stop.
Cheers Grobi hadn't realised it was a re-badged model 👍
@@grobifarnsworth I have the electra Beckum also I love it I've had it for 15 years... It needs a 16amp supply to engage the electronic brake.
@@VinBSunday 16A is all we have here in Germany. Maybe mine is just broken, bought it couple of years ago for the ridiculously low sum of 50€ without even suspecting what a good deal that was for the quality of this machine...
Hah, you are right, Electra is Metabo and Metabo is Hitachi, and Hitachi is Koki now. :). We have an old Electra table circular saw at the workshop which works pretty good by the way. Even under Hitachi ( Koki now), Metabo and Hitachi lines and models don't seem to have anything common up to now.
Matt from badger workshop done a video on a dedicated chip collector it was a metabo cheap'ish one but was fine for connecting just to his thicknesser also the freud blade has more teeth which cuts slower but cleaner
Yeah I saw Matt's video but I'd like something a little more compact
When you first set up the new HiKOKI / Metabo HPT C3610DRA, did you have to lubricate the slides? I have the same saw, and when I slide it back, it feels a bit jerky as if the slider is catching a bit.
Mine was really smooth. I'd get in touch with Hikoki as that doesn't sound good
I'll have to watch this video again, after seeing those guns I could not concentrate. :)
Big guns !
Hikoki is top quality
Looks like it shares the basic chassis with a Craftsman model. Motor mount is different, allowing double vs single bevel. Given the lineage, it’s a good value, slightly better entry level saw.
Really good comparrison video. I always liked to see you make furniture using the old axminster mitersaw. Giving us the feeling anyone can start even with used tools. But i have to say the HiKOKI looks really good. Especially with the 36v battery. A bit out of my reach for now. 😅 Thanks for sharing!
Thanks. It really shouldn't matter what tools I use, anyone can make what I make using inexpensive tools, just as I used to before I could afford nicer ones
Is this the 216 blade size ( hikoki)
I see you have a One Plus 7 pro. great choice !!! I love mine.
I love it but I broke the glass back 😆
Hello What is the cost of a hi-кokki disc? model?
Love your videos Keith. How many teeth do u have on your freud pro blade on your mitre saw? I need a freud blade but unsure of the best one. Keep up the good work. Chris
Hi Chris. Thanks! If you check the my tools link in the description my blades are in there 👍
Can the hikoki saw be used to cut cross cut trenches in 4x4 inches. Does it have an effective depth stop and stable arm. I need to make mortise cross joints. Thanks
Yes
Which dust filtration unit are you thinking of getting? I was thinking of the rutlands one, it seems cheap and good?
Not sure yet, still mulling it over. Think the Rutland's had been out of stock for a while
I'm planning on the Record Power...
@@alasdairmackenzie515 Yeah, that would probably be my next option if the rutlands is still out of stock. It seems to me to be pretty much the same unit.
Rag 'n' Bone Brown a.ka. GUNS! ;)
On sound: The main noise source will be the saw blade. If the Hikoki blade is spinning faster (which you said earlier) it will be lounder and probably drown the motor
And what about the influence of the dust collection cabinet in which the Hikoki is situated, that's acting like a soundboard which also let increase the sound pressure!
If Hikoki / Metabo are at all related to Hitatchi, then I expect that the battery replacement that allows you to plug into the wall would fit right in
I have to say that the battery sure looks the same as the Hitachi. That would give you plug in power in the shop, and still give you that battery if you ever take it out of the shop.
Hi Greg, HiKOKI is the new name for Hitachi in the UK, the same as Metabo HPT in US. I mention the power supply in the video 👍
@@RagnBoneBrown missed the comment on the alternate power supply, Sorry about that.
Thanks for the brand name update - clears up my confusion !!
You could just add a cyclone type chip collector between your dust extractor and the planer. Quite cheap to buy from the usual suppliers of Chinese made tat, or do a Mathias and build one
I already have a cyclone but the diameter pipe I use won't be wide enough for planer chips hence the need for a separate machine 👍
Спасибо, очень хороший обзор инструмент все понятно даже без перевода все параметры показаны, особенно сравнение женщины!
That’s easy for you to say!!
Keith, can I ask, were both blades at the same sharpness? For a fair test and all. I'm just curious as I'm quite fond of Axminster tools, but if other tool brands out there are performing better then it's self explanatory. I will say also, the tool age gap might be a problem. Technology has come a long way, really quickly.
The Freud blade in the Axminster has had more use, but not by much. A few people in the comments are suggesting that the more teeth the blade has the slower it cuts so that would explain it, although the difference was pretty significant! I'd like to compare with the same blade that would be interesting...
2:44 but also because i have these big guns.
XDDD I laughed so hard, XDDD
great video :D.
Edit this -> these
Clicked to learn about saws. Got a front row ticket to the gun show instead.
Was not disappointed.
The Axminster looks just like my Elektra Beckum
That no look mitre saw action haha
Do you think you could survive with just a 216mm/8 1/2 inch mitre saw or do you need a 254mm / 10inch blade?
For the kind of work I do, a 10 comes in handy a lot. Same for table saw
@@RagnBoneBrownI'm just getting into the hobby just as DeWalt discontinue the dw745 and replace it with an 8 1/2 blade model 😫
Doesn’t the power adapter kinda defeat the purpose tho? Would be interesting to see if those sell
Some people use it on the job site and in a workshop. The PSU gives extra options, especially if batteries aren't fully charged
The slower speed of the axminster could well be to do with number of teeth on the blade. more teeth the slower the cut as the gullets are much smaller on high tooth number cross cut blades. Just a thought
Yeah you're probably right. It could also be that the blade had seen more use. Still, the difference was quite significant. Would like to try the experiment with the same blade fitted to both
Is the axminster up for sale?
Not yet but it will be
Yeah thats an elektra beckum re brand, had that axminster saw but wasn't sliding version, that axminster saw is made to cut aluminium, window fitteds would go mad for that saw
Those guns tho!!
200 quid is a bargain ? a new one is like 3-400, also definitely marry that girl
Not many saws have an induction motor , they are the best motors going I think
big guns small tool ;)
I've had this saw for around 18months now. My negatives are one the noise, its loud. Another is the trench adjusters suck. If you have it set and need to then use it for a normal cut you can't just flick the switch like the Makita, you need to completely reset. Poor design that. But apart from that, it's a great saw, love the size of the fence, nice accurate cuts. And I can adjust the bevel at the front rather than leaning over each time.
Which saw?
@@RagnBoneBrown Hikoki
How've you managed to get guns like that in the uk? 😂
Carrying his wallet lol
The white saw looks very like the old Electra beckum unit
start of video: “why i have a new mitre saw...? it’s green” video end.
😂 damn I forgot to mention that as a reason!!!
"Because"
Or
"....and you don't??!?"
Also work
(As it happens I currently have 2 as well lol)
Axminster Craft AC82E 1.5HP Dust Extractor
That Axminster saw is actually an Electra Bekum from early 90’s... Axminster sold me the EB saw many years ago and a horrible cumbersome tool it was
I wonder if you removed 1 spring on the Axminster saw would it be easier to use ...🤔
BTW... you really need to screw them down.. 🙄🤭
I don't want to screw it down as it ain't staying! 😁
@@RagnBoneBrown yer girlfriend nearly put it on her toes 😟... I presume the Hokikoki is buttoned down so...
🙄😏
😎👍☘🍺
💪🏻💪🏻😂👍🏻
Saw down, then pull forward. That way the saw teeth push the material down. If you start your cut in the front, the teeth will try to push your work up.
2:44 😂
Your old saw cut slower because it has more teeth on the blade... you're new saw has fewer teeth on the blade it seems so it can clean out the dust faster with bigger gullets to cut more aggressively. Power might be part of the reason as well... and your gun's had me laughing ha ha ha 💪
haha Big Guns
i have two sliding compound saws one for fine furniture work and the other for hardcore cuts. but the one i do finer cuts with cost me over 1000 dollars, and no it is not a festool. it is better. and the other cost me 400 dollars and its for all the hardcore cuts.
On my saw, the fence isn't straight and cannot get it straight. All the reviews I read seem to have the same problem. I cannot recommend the 10" saw myself. Wish I purchased the 12" which has much better reviews
What saw?
The Hitachi 10" sliding.
Chip collector....mmmmm chips............. *drools*
Its an Electra Beckum saw
Sorry my chip collection suggestions aren’t good because you probably won’t be able to buy it as I am Australia
Good saw but the Hikoki idiots made the mains adapter in 240v so not legal on a UK site.
4/8ah batteries they claim can be registered for a 5 year warranty, however you need a serial number to add them on the site. There are no serial numbers on Hikoki batteries so bit of a scam going on there.
Many Hikoki 36v tools are almost identical to Makita 40v and even the cases snap together for stacking. Buy Makita.