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Are corded tools obsolete?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 15 ส.ค. 2024
- This video is a detailed side by side comparison of the Festool KAPEX KS 120 corder Miter Saw and the new Festool KAPEX KSC 60 cordless miter saw. The new KSC 60 is available starting 12 May and you can find out more about it by visiting www.festoolusa...
The new KAPEX KSC 60 Cordless Sliding Compound Miter Saw produces unbeatably precise cross cuts in an enormous range of applications. With a variety of settings to choose from, the KSC 60 ensures smooth and perfect cuts, without wobble or deflection. Its dual-battery 36-volt system combined with the brushless EC-TEC motor provide virtually unlimited endurance for an entire day’s work.
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As a trim carpenter, the KSC 60 ticks all the boxes. I’m currently at a job site with only 2 receptacles. Most of my trim are flat stock that don’t exceed 12”. I’ll plan ahead and bring my 12” saw from home if I’m cutting large crown; otherwise, the KSC 60 will cover 95% of my daily cutting requirements. I already own the batteries, so it’s already $600 less to start. I’ve been holding out a couple years for this saw and it finally arrived a week ago!
For me the number one killer feature of the 120 is the bevel fine tuning. That looks so sweet. The solution to that on the 60 isn’t any better than on my old Hitachi. I would have expected more, e.g. something similar to the 120 but perhaps that would have altered the 60’s weight advantage. I don’t know. I find it hard to choose between the two. 😊
I want a cordless Kapex with a 10” blade, fine bevel adjustment, fine miter adjustment, tall fences, and the shadow line. All the best features of both saws in one. 🙂
I would just buy a battery unit for $1000-$1500
I’ve owned and used a KS120 since 2010. I’ve had two in that time. That saw has never let me down. It is the benchmark of all mitre saw. Lately I’ve just found it way too much saw for my needs as a kitchen installer/interior finish carpenter… so I recently bought the KS60 to downsize my work tools. Within a week I sold the KS120. No regrets. The KS60 is an incredible mitre saw. I prefer it over the 120 in just about every way.
I am in the same profession as you and also own the KS 120. What do you do for installing crown? I only cut it in the nested position so you must be very comfortable with cutting it in the flat position. Just curious. I could not let my KS 120 go for any possible reason. Even though I have 7 different miter saws. The best option for any occasion. Thanks.
I bought the full kit with the stand for the KSC 60. It's supposed to ship tomorrow from Toolnut. I found many years ago that I have little use for big miter saws and have relied almost solely on 8.5in models for the past 6 years. I have a corded Bosch 8.5in that served me well for years which I still use at times, I purchased the 8.5in 40v Makita last year, and now this Festool.
These smaller miter saws are so good if you do a lot of work away from the shop. Unless you are cutting 4x4's a lot, these little saws do pretty much everything the bigger saws do but weight a lot less and are much easier to transport. You can even cut large crown with them, you just have to cut it lying flat, which really is the better method as long as your saw is tuned properly.
How do you like your KSC 60? Any thoughts?
The primary advantage of the cordless KAPEX is portability. It's lighter and easier to store in a vehicle. But, for most things, the larger saw would be better for use in a dedicated miter saw station. The larger saw table creates a more stable platform for your work. The taller fences make it easier to cut compound miters on moulding and the like. In such a situation, where the saw will stay in the same place 99% of the time, the smaller saw's increased portability provides virtually no advantage.
Having said that, I really like the shadow line...
The smaller blade will be more accurate & more precise than the bigger blade, just like how the 10 inch Kapex & other 10 inch saws are more rigid & precise than a 12 inch saw.
All of this makes me wish the shadow line that DeWalt has done so well would be mastered and put on all miter saws. It is frustrating, and as good as lasers can be, the shadow line is amazing.
It also makes me appreciate that we can find a radial arm saw for under $150 that serves very well. I only think of this because if I had two saws I’d probably lean that way before a battery powered one.
I wish they would update the KS120 to a shadow line and brushless motor.
Awesome review. I needed some good insight and comparison between these 2 saws, and you delivered. I currently use the milwaukee cordless in the field, and I love it. However, in the shop, I use corded, but the power situation is a problem, and im leaning towards battery. The only thing I dont like with festool is I wish the width of the cut was longer than 12. I use a ridgid 12" that's almost 17" width of cut, and it saves a lot of time vs. having to bust out the track saw. The KSC 60 does seem very tempting, and the weight and portability are nice to have. I mostly want it for the shop, but to have the option to take it into the field is also a major plus
After watching the video advert i was still skeptical. But when i finally downloaded the plans th-cam.com/users/postUgkxZF0EMnrujZvqHhGkxiz559uIABJWR9TG i was very impressed. The whole plan was just as you said in the video. Thank you very much. I now have a large and valuable collection for my woodworks. This is great!
Great video! I’m trying to decide which one I want & this helped a lot. I don’t have power issues in my garage so I’m leaning towards the 120.
I was really surprised how much cutting power (and torque) this saw had out of the box. I've used other (10" saws) previously and was pretty surprised with the speed and cutting ability of this Dewalt saw.I have bolted mine to a table to minimize movement which I highly recommend.This is a Great saw th-cam.com/users/postUgkxPeGkHOMe05FySypTOvYumxMn-xi39oRe with a light to see your cutting line (not a laser line).I'd recommend this saw fro anyone looking to upgrade from a 10" miter saw.
Great video and thank you for talking in imperial measurements rather than metric.
You’re welcome
How dare you use freedom units, many europeans can't comprehend such things?! 😂
I have both but still my favourite is the 120. The 60 is a very good saw but for me I don’t enjoy it like the 120.
Runtime is very good but dust collection with that dust bag is not so.
What one would I let go if I had to🤔 the 60 would go. That extra button on the 60 got a fix the next day after set up😁
Informative comparison - Thanks!
You’re welcome
Thank You Jason.
Shadow line is much nicer than laser, but the clamp on the 120 is so easy that you actually use it.
I love the 120 clamp!
@@bentswoodworkingthat clamp is unbeatable. It actually makes it usable and convenient.
Own both...(truly the 3) lol. The KS120 is the master in workshop, as the KSC60 is easy on site.... now just get the SYMC70 for the other application...
Just got the KSC 60 with stand and arms... getting rid of my Bosch that was a nightmare to move around the house and with my current shop in the garage (mostly) having the arms for measuring will be clutch! (even though they're metric)
What's your assessment of the KSC 60 now that you've had for 3 weeks?
@@AaronGeller I really like it, no imperial has set me back a little but after I calibrated it the accuracy has been awesome. I have been trimming out a basement and it's awesome to not have to measure measure measure... I measure space with a laser, set up the stops on the saw and it's always perfect... beautiful cuts too.
Thanks Jason, nice review. Might be time to replace my old Hitachi with a KSC60.
Go for it!
Kind of a strange idea to me to buy a cordless miter saw that is going to stay in my garage 99% of the time, but dang, that is what i am leaning towards.
So instead of plugging the saw in, you're plugging in a charger and waiting for a battery to charge. Only makes sense if very limited to outlets but still have to plug in the charger. Not to mention a cord is much cheaper than a battery.
Yeah I love to have everything on battery but my router, tracksaw are all corded. So I think want the corded. I don’t see the added value for a homeowner diy
You forgot to mention that the ksc 60 is available as ks 60. In other words as corded. I have had my ks 60 since 2017 and i love it and highly recommend it!
Not in North America
@@bentswoodworking Oh sorry my bad. Well in europe it is for anyone interested😊
Yes American's forget there is the rest of the world😂
Why not compare a corded ks60 to a cordless ks60?A 120 is a different machine altogether.
Excellent comparison, nice job Jason! I love my KS120 and it’s good to know the KSC60 can share my same mobile stand, just with the new saw tray.
Glad you found it helpful
It should just allow both. I have a tire compressor from dewault and you can run it wired or with batteries, its not difficult. Just a way to charge you for two systems.
Thnx 👍
Great comparison video, two great saws!!! Thanks for sharing Jason.
Thanks buddy
Great, compendious analysis. Thank you.
great video justin! im impressed by your tool knowledge. do you know anything about bbq though?
Thanks Bill
I can see that new KSC 60 joining my shop to replace the very old 12" Delta CMS I have owned since like 2000. I rarely use a miter saw in the shop because of having a slider, but this particular tool could change that for sure based on your videos here and on IG. Thanks for the comparison!
You’re welcome Jim
Nice review!!! One thing to add is that the dust bag on the Ksc is absolutely useless, after 20 or so cuts, dust just pours back through the saw :-( Extractor is essential.
Dang awesome review man thanks!
You’re welcome buddy
Thx Jason. What about cutting very dense hardwood like we have here in Australia?? Ive seen Sedge do a comparison on maple or something but that's not anywhere near as dense as Aussie hardwood. Whats been your experience? Or have you mainly cut soft(er) woods?
I’ve done both with excellent results. Different blades will be important with different kinds of wood.
Hey Brent. With regards to the handle on both the KS 120 and KSC 60, which one allows for a smaller hand to operate the saw(s)?
Great comparison video! It's interesting to see the differences between the corded and cordless versions of the Capex. I appreciate the detailed breakdown of features and capabilities. I'm particularly intrigued by the more efficient brushless motor in the KSC 60 and the added flexibility of using it cordless. It seems like a valuable addition for both workshop and job site use. Loved the video mate. Great job!
Thank you!
The shadow is the kerf of the blade? What does that mean exactly? That it just shows where the centre of the blade is? But not where the cut line is?
I’d like to you operate the saw left handed. I have the festool jigsaw and it is clearly intended for right hand operation. Right at the end of the vid you can see the right side of the trigger, there is no release button on the right
Dewalt 12” for large crown, with crown stops. Most other miter saws don’t address the crown issue very well I,ve found.
Have you heard about the crown support cutting board? It goes across the whole saw and provides a much more stable cutting situation than just the 2 stops. It makes a very big difference. Sorry that I can't add a link.
Really helpful video. Thank you Jason.
You’re welcome
Can the cordless version cut crown moulding like its big brother?
nice video, larger saw it better and for the price i pick the larger unit.
Awsome video! Realy helpfull explaining all the differences! Only one final question to you owining both: If you lost both and could only buy one of them back for your home shop where mains power is no particular issue.. get a ks 120 or the ksc 60 with batteries which would you pick?
If power isn’t an issue and I don’t need the mobility, than I would go 120
@@bentswoodworking thanks! 💚
Great review. Very useful
Glad it was helpful!
Great video, Jason - I appreciate the comparison between the two, as I’m currently considering replacing my current miter saw with one of these.
But how are we supposed to take you seriously if you aren’t wearing your shop flops?
Great point. It’s getting warm again so you may start seeing them 🤣
When looking into new tools especially Festool I have considered both corded and cordless for a workshop environment. Everything from their track saw to this chop saw and their new small table saw look great. However the boys at work said that battery powered tools are going to be obsolete after a short period of time after buying due to battery depletion and degradation as well as advancements with battery tech tools will become dated super quick. Where as corded will always work and produce sustainable power long term and are better investments as you get a lot more for your money. comparing track saws for instance the 55 cordless to the 75 corded difference with about $400/500 for a full kit. Would you guys agree? I really like the lack of cords and the small portable lightweight modern advantages of the battery powered options. Is it a good investment or worth the upgrade in costs.
I can't speak to the performance of festool batteries but I understand them to be some of the best (made by panasonic). As far as investment goes, a battery's life-cycle is around 10-12 years for the best ones. No matter what, all lithium batteries lose their efficiencies over time, so in a way you are paying for a battery subscription if you are a professional user, albeit only 3-4 cycles in your career. So dollar for dollar, corded tools will always be a more economic use of capital but what they cannot provide is the economy of movement that cordless can. You only need to trip over one cord carrying an expensive cabinet to understand that cost. For stationary tools like a miter saw and table saw (where you bring the work to the tool) I think the cordless benefits are not quite the squeeze. Unless we are talking about 'quick' jobs or punch-out work. Even then it wouldn't be a tool to replace but to supplement your arsenal. For tools you take TO the work like a track saw, jig saw, nailers, fein tool, etc. I believe the cost of cordless and the 'battery subscription' is worth it.
As a millwork and cabinetry installer, In the end, I don't believe the KSC60 is a replacement for the KC120 (if it was they would discontinue it). It's a beautiful saw that I'd love to incorporate into my work-flow but I don't believe it has a place yet for the cost. The weight of the saw doesn't mean anything if it goes on a rolling stand anyway.
@@LockDown40 that’s great thanks a lot mate this was super helpful!
@@bobbyfranklin5924 glad I could help!
Can you show how much the blade deflects left and right with light and medium pressure applied using the handle?
Can the taller fence attachment work on the KSC 60? I like cutting crown molding in the nested position.
excellent review
Glad you enjoyed it
I have a question about the slides. do these have 2 bearings one on each slide or just one bearing, only one slide has bearing?
Choices Choices Choices 🤔
Are there any events coming up where someone could test these outs?
Still trying to decide what my next tool is going to be.
Keep an eye out for a Festool experience event. I’ll shoot you a message if I hear of any. You can also come by my shop and try them out.
@@bentswoodworking That would be awesome. Im not that far!
Was good seeing you in Toronto today Jason, thanks for the demos! Didn't get a chance to ask you earlier, but what blades do you use on your Kapex, ? Always good to have options!
Nice meeting you as well. I run a Tenryu in my 120. Really like it a lot.
Great vid! BTW, where is your Lav Mic? Your audio is excellent!
In my hat, but I use a service to clean up the audio
Awesome. What you do is amazing 🙂🙂
Would love to see Festool update some of their corded tools with brushless motors.
Brushless is a DC thing; it does not make a lot of sense for most applications to make a corded tool brushless, which is why you barely see it. You just put new brushes in when you wear the old ones out.
@@bestyoutubernonegraternumber1 why is the ETS EC line brushless, then?
@@LukePighetti ETS EC are cordless tools. They require a special optional adapter with electronics inside of it to plug in. They are relatively low-wattage-draw items. Very different from something like the Kapex or a table saw. That said, some kinds of adapter is supposedly coming for the CSC Sys 50, too. That is how they should do it, too: make the option available for their Cordless tools with adapters, like laptops or such with black-box adapters use (which is basically what the ETS EC plug it adapters are). :P
@@bestyoutubernonegraternumber1 ETS EC is not cordless
If you could only have one for YOUR shop, which would you prefer?
The corded one
If power wasn’t a issue, the 120. But I have more outlets than I need in my garage
The Kapex needs a brushless motor already.
I was surprised to hear you say the dust collection on the ks120 was great. I replaced my Bosch with a ks120 about a year or so ago. While it's an awesome saw and I love it, the dust collection is only marginally better than the Bosch was (maybe 10 or 20 percent better) and the Bosch sucks at dust collection (no pun intended). I put the 50mm hose on it and run a Festool extractor and it still spews dust all over. I tried different blade speeds but still the dust collection is sub par. Not sure if there is anything else I can do.
The 36mm hose is apparently the sweet spot for the Kapex 120. I do not have either Kapex yet - cannot decide which to get. Each one keeps canceling the other out on features the other has had removed or the other lacks. But from all of my research so far, the 36mm hose is the good hose & 50mm is too big, while 27mm is too small - again, from what I gather so far from the last week and a half of nothing but trying to pick between these two saws.
When you make a cut with the saw, watch how the dust flies with different styles of cut. Straight down cuts may make a difference over sliding cuts as to which does better at clearing up the dust. Find out which style works best and incorporate that into your routine. Hope that helps.
What is the best table saw/ tools for kitchen cabinets?
For installing cabinets, you should take a look at the Festool cordless table saw. An amazing machine! For making cabinets, it would be best to have a full size cabinet saw.
Unfortunately I'm not in the market for either one.
Not gonna lie, I don’t love my kapex. It’s ok but not as accurate as I expected and I don’t use it as much as I thought I would,
Generally use a cordless circ saw and speed square for break down of lumber
Great video! Thanks! Any chance the sliding fence from the ks 120 would fit on the ks 60?
Let me guess it comes with two batteries and only one charger? And another pair of batteries and 3 more chargers cost as much as the machine. And the Bluetooth will only communicate with festoon dust collectors?
It comes with the new dual charger
Are you festool rep? I have no tools whatsoever but need to build a shed/man cave. What tools should I buy? I don’t care if I fail or not its a fun project that I’ve been researching for a while now.
What kind of projects do you want to do?
@@AaronGeller build a shed with gym area and little office area
@@bikeomatic8005 For building a shed, miter saw, circular saw, possibly a track saw for processing large plywood panels (although many more purposes than just that), a table saw is a great but a track saw can cover a lot of its functions, drill and driver kit for drilling and driving screws, sanders, dust extractor/vacuum, and potentially a multi tool/oscillation tool.
@@AaronGeller thanks man, table saw dust extraction unlikely as I dont have a workshop to keep all this stuff, you think I should go with festool on all of this stuff, buy once cry one 😉
Watched your video 2 times, thank you. I currently use the Makita 36v 10”.
I’m getting old and have had several surgeries but… I need to work, probably until I die. I carry my saw a lot. I do like the relatively new Makita 8.5” 40v also. I’ve been slowly buying more festool products. I like them. I’ve been wondering if all their cordless tools are worth the $$$$.
I have been changing how I feel about cordless tools. The battery life is impressive
@@bentswoodworking
I have had both. If I can only have 1 saw, I feel cordless offers a lot in flexibility.
I like cutting baseboard standing up. But 90% of the homes we building these days are calling for 8” base. That requires a saw capable of cutting 7 1/4 height. The best 12” saws can cur 6 1/2 base.
So.. it may be that running a 12 or 10” miter isn’t that crucial. This is where the new Festool cordless and the new 40v Makita 8.5” miter really shine. They can cut a huge piece of 2x with few issues. This means laying 8” base can be cut easily on the smaller saws.
Crown could become a problem with the smaller blades.
Please run some casing around that door. It’s bugging me 😂
Wow
that's not the latest 120.....REB?
168€ for one battery , no thank you. For the last 10 years there was only once there was no electricity at customer house. I think it is better to get "power station" ...
I enjoy your reviews, but recently you state your biased views indirectly. For example when you discuss / compare depth of cut, you say the 120 depth of cut is better, not capacity is greater? A few times in this video.
No way will I be going battery operated.
That trigger on the 60 is stupid and awkward. Hated it when demoing it at Woodcraft. Hate the trigger on the 60. Hate it.
If I work only in in my own garage or shop I would never get battery chop saw. only mouth believers do that.
Me with my 25 yr old dewalt miter, why won't you die? Oh, it's probably because I don't use it much... My tablesaw on the other hand has picked up a nice vibration.
akward
Festool Kapex provides a small 10-1/4" metric blade, Kapex corded has a brushed motor, 13 AMP motor, speed control, on the whole, vastly overpriced. Lots of complaints with the motors, returns for repairs. You are locked into Festool's metric system where all components are grossly overpriced and overrated for what you actually get. You must use Festool parts, you can not replace parts with widely available parts. Not every town carries Festool parts or service outlets. Kapex saws could use many improvements and updates, these saws are not worth the asking price.
Looks like I’m going cordless.😊👍📐🇨🇦
Great option for that!!
Awesome comparison video Jason! Thanks for doing it. I prefer the shadow line because I am red/green color blind so I have a very difficult time seeing the laser on my Kapex.
Thanks brother. I didn’t even think about the color blind topic. That’s a good point.