I just happen to need to cut a dovetail but couldn't position my clapper box avoid digging into the part. I used it as an excuse to make a dovetail cutter on my lathe.
Fantastic demonstration. I really enjoyed the simple set up . The explanation of what angles to grind the tool and using the straight edge and dial indicator were invaluable.
I do quite a bit of oilfield repair work, I’m hoping to add a well taken care of shaper to my all manual machine shop in the near future, people are always telling me just use your mill but this video is exactly why I’m wanting to add it to my arsenal in the shop. Thanks for the video
I have done dovetails both with rotary cutters on the mill and lathe type cutters on my milling machine's slotting head. The slotting head acts like a vertical shaper. One more thing Starrett makes sets of very nice dovetail measuring micrometers. I bought one recently for 90° angles.
You certainly have an analytical mind, many of your methods appear simple(after you have figured it all out.) I always get an education when watching your videos. As you always respond to my comments, this has been my pleasure. Thank You
Thank you Michel for an entertaining and informative explanation on how dovetails can be machined accurately on the shaper. I learned so much from this video, especially how much I crave having a shaper. Sadly no room 😢
Ladies and gentlemen I present to you the TH-cam video of the year. Secret weapons, Heavy Vise throwing contest (because I need to get rid of all mine. I don't want to be a p***y) and lots of great special effects, laughter and learning. Damn I like the finish that shaper makes. Great video Michel. Gilles
Thanks for another great video! I learn something new every time I watch you. Now that you've pointed it out, I see that the female part of a dovetail needs to be taller than the male. Of course it does; that makes perfect sense! It's a great example of something that just wouldn't have occurred to me if someone with more experience hadn't pointed it out. ...or until I tried to make one for the first time and wondered why my dovetail didn't fit and slide like it was 'supposed' to. Thank you again! 😊
@@Rustinox What many don't realise is that small shapers such as the Eliot and 10M are professional machine tools unlike the Micky Mouse amateur bench top milling machines.
Hi Michel, great video, some great editting as well. I particularly enjoyed seeing and hearing the slowed down cuts on the shaper 👌👌👌. Very enjoyable to watch, good luck from Spain!!
If My Sammie were here, she would have loved this one for sure. She always loved your since of humor and talents. After watching mr. Pete's videos a early this month on tool post ( a 2 parter vid) and showing dial indicators holders adapted to tool post, I like that concept. Had a buddy 3D print me up a few, but by fault on my part, I sent him the files for AXA not B type. So I now 5 AXA one to give away 😞. Since my shaper is still in pieces, will have to do on my mill as soon as I get in Randy Richards dove tail cutters 🙂. This was awesome Michel, and fill Sammie is watching and agreeing as well. Ole Bear in cold TX,,,burrrrrr!
It's just amazing how versatile the shaper is, I guess you could have machined a bit more out and made room for a gib strip, but that's only if you wanted to! best wishes Rusti, cheers, Dave
You are always a treat to watch...absolutely love your sense of humor! Very nice example of making do with what you have. Amazing things can be done with the simplest of tools. Cheers from Canada p.s.-Happy St. Patricks Day
Hi Michel ☺ this was great, and explaned quite simply . This just goes to show we don't need to over complicate things to end up whith a good result. Thanks for another interesting video mate, stay safe, best wishe's to you and your's, Stuart UK.
I think the hardest part is roughing the centre part not sure best way like use parting tool and go ti depth in each section or rough out a vee as you did, i will try both
Nice outcome Rusti 👍, I intend to remake the compound for my little homemade Lathe in the coming months now that I have a mill, but alas, it will be with dovetail cutters
eyup Michel Nice one I have to make a miniature dovetail soon, not decided on Mill or shaper yet, or a i may use a file🤣🤣🤔🤔👍👍👍👍👍👍 see you next time Kev uk
A great lesson Michel, thank you for sharing your knowledge. I really enjoyed the slow motion footage of the shaper in action. I really like this tool and hope to buy one some day.
Michel, another informative and entertaining video. The shaper is such a versatile tool to have, your explanations and blackboard drawing are very helpful to illustrate the proper fit of a dovetail. Thank you
Highly enjoyable video. Presumably you would chamfer, radius or break edge the tip of the included angle on the female part to avoid interference ( and also to make fitment easier). Much in the same way as a brake disc register diameter has a sharper radius at its root than that of the hub against which it lies flat.
Thank you Michael and whoever that other bozo was that said your measurements wouldn't work. Now having made that part maybe you need to dream up a use for it. Perhaps a universal vertical slide for the lathe or the mill. Seems a pity to waste a perfectly good piece of steel with a 55° dovetail cut in it. Just a suggestion from Canada's banana belt. 🤞🇨🇦🍌🥋🕊️🇺🇦🕊️🇧🇪👍.
Using pins that are the correct diameter to suit the angle, allows the same measurement to be used for each part providing the deepest depth is used for the calculation. For 55 degrees the ideal pin diameter is 36.5% of the depth of the deepest dovetail. For other dovetail angles 60 degrees is 1/3rd of the depth & 45 degrees is 41% of the depth.
@@machinists-shortcuts For fun, I did the math. So further to your excellent no trig video, the ratio of the pin diameter to depth is equal to the cosine of the dovetail angle divided by ( 1 + cosine of that angle).
@@richardjones-sl2zd That all works out to my calculations too. I will add your simplified formula to my video description for others to use if that is OK.
Thank you. This was both informative and very amusing. "So it isn't possible. Goodbye. Wait..." Very funny. As you were setting up the tool slide angle I was wondering why you weren't hogging out the waste first. In order to avoid interference between the tool and clamps might I suggest making some of Harold Hall's low profile clamps.
Nice video and presentation. I wonder if you have any video about dovetail shimming? Particularly two shins (end to end) adjustable by a one screw per end.
I think the shaper I'd the better choice for the dovetail Shapers tend to cut very straight A milling machine leave always circular scratches in the workpiece
Well done. This is one of the jobs I'd preferrably do on a shaper (cost of a profile mill aside), because the surface roughness is in line with the movement which the piece would see in action. Therefor (in my brain, at least), it should wear less and produce less friction than the semicircle pattern a mill would leave.
Great video Rusti, before I make my lathe tool holders (how did you know?), I need to make myself some rails and clamping fixtures etc. Thanks for the very useful video! Cheers, Jon
This explanation is amazingly complete and concise. Thank you so much for all the effort you must have expended to teach us how along with the added humor that transcends all native languages (I especially like the pussy joke) 👍👍😎👍👍 One day I hope to find a shaper to add to the arsenal of metal cutting tools in my shed.
the hunger gets bigger and bigger when I see the shaper working again. I'm still rebuilding. question how long is the oil collection tray at the back of the ram slide
Hi Michel, great to see that. Yes a mill could be quicker but how often do you have the right cutter? Tooling is the killer on the mill if you don't have a customer to pay for it. Having both machines gives so many options. The fit on your new part was spot on. Cheers
nettes video zu schwalbenschwanzführungen. mir fehlt hier aber wie beim originalteil die einstellleiste. die höchste präzision hilft nichts wenn der verschleiß kommt und man nicht nachstellen kann. zur präzision sei noch gesagt, dass das ausgangsmaterial bzw die parrallelität des ausgangsmaterials entscheidend ist für den schwalbenschwanz. jede minimale abweichung übernimmt man wenn man das werkstück ausspannt und umdreht. präziser wird es wenn man es tatsächlich eingespannt lässt und für seite 2 den hobelkopf auf die andere seite schwenkt. einstellen kann man ihn dann mit einem winkelendmaß. ist auch zu empfehlen bei seite 1, da man ja einen fixen winkel erreichen will und nicht irgend ne krumme zahl, die sehr schlecht reproduzierbar ist.
The angle of this dove tail is not 60° (more or less 55°) so, to reset the same angle to the other side with the tool slide is very difficult. The methode I used (with the fence) is repeatable and works very well.
Something that annoys me is when someone says "I rough it out on the shaper ready for the milling machine". A shaper is every bit as accurate as a milling machine.
@@Rustinox What is missed is the independence of tooling with a shaper that uses single point tooling. Milling cutters are expensive and difficult to sharpen.
I have only ever had two mills, a rong fu & now a clone. I only ever made the tool holders using a cheap dove tail cutter from china, I used the same idea as you did, rough out the centres and then the angles: only I cheated took the tool post from the lathe and test fitted it when I did the cuts. Not smart enough for the measuring .... Good onya
@@Rustinox It doesn't say much for you being a machinist and not knowing This Old Tony and also his sense of humor. You could learn something...but then again, probably not.
@@daveunderwood6498 I like Tot very much. He has a fantastic channel. The problem is that people keep repeating that shapers are slow. I've prooven several times on my channel that they aren't.
A fitting demonstration of the fact that shapers are really not obsolete. Not like some would claim, anyway.
You're right.
The slo-mo section was particularly enjoyable!
Thanks.
Love the picture-in-picture 12 minutes in! 👍 🇬🇧
Thanks. That's easy to do.
The more I watch your excellent videos, the more I want a shaper!
Go for it.
I just happen to need to cut a dovetail but couldn't position my clapper box avoid digging into the part. I used it as an excuse to make a dovetail cutter on my lathe.
No need of excuses. Have fun with it.
Tool holders for the quick change tool post! Jeez, ya had me with working with a shaper. Neat video!
Thanks.
I love that "vice you didn't have". 👍😎
Lol. Thanks.
Fantastic demonstration. I really enjoyed the simple set up . The explanation of what angles to grind the tool and using the straight edge and dial indicator were invaluable.
Thanks Terry.
Very nice video! I’m getting a vintage shaper ready to go, and making machine dovetail slides is one of the reasons I’m excited about it.
That's nice. Have fun with it.
Those chips at 8:44 were particularly satisfying! Excellent work Sir 👍
Thanks.
I do quite a bit of oilfield repair work, I’m hoping to add a well taken care of shaper to my all manual machine shop in the near future, people are always telling me just use your mill but this video is exactly why I’m wanting to add it to my arsenal in the shop. Thanks for the video
Shapers can remove material a lot faster then milling machines, so go for it.
@@Rustinox it’s made in Yugoslavia Bačka Palanka “Majevica” a 24”. Do you know anything of this brand?
I have done dovetails both with rotary cutters on the mill and lathe type cutters on my milling machine's slotting head. The slotting head acts like a vertical shaper.
One more thing Starrett makes sets of very nice dovetail measuring micrometers. I bought one recently for 90° angles.
Nice. Thanks.
Not only technically and practically informative, but very engaging and witty presentation. Very enjoyable, thank you!
Thanks.
Not sure I agree with you. Technically maybe not but the set up was certainly informative and I love Michel's sense of humour!
You certainly have an analytical mind, many of your methods appear simple(after you have figured it all out.) I always get an education when watching your videos. As you always respond to my comments, this has been my pleasure. Thank You
Just step by step. And it works.
great video production/discussion/demonstration/build…thanks for sharing your experience
Thanks Chuck.
Thank you Michel for an entertaining and informative explanation on how dovetails can be machined accurately on the shaper. I learned so much from this video, especially how much I crave having a shaper. Sadly no room 😢
Thanks Andrew.
i dont subscribe to channels but ur no nonsense aproch is awesome
Thanks Paul.
Ladies and gentlemen I present to you the TH-cam video of the year. Secret weapons, Heavy Vise throwing contest (because I need to get rid of all mine. I don't want to be a p***y) and lots of great special effects, laughter and learning. Damn I like the finish that shaper makes. Great video Michel. Gilles
Thanks Gilles.
Thanks for the video keep on keeping on.
Will do.
Another GREAT shaper class....A+....Your the man when it comes to shaper work....Always look forward to your videos...Thank you From the U.S.A. Phil..
Thanks Phil.
I really love shaper videos. Maybe I should make more of them. Really a well done video, thanks for sharing!
Thanks Noel.
I need one of those vices that you don't have. So much easier to move around.
They are very lightweight :)
As always, a well filmed and edited entertaining video. Thanks!
Thanks Stefan.
Beautifully explained and executed.
I wish I had a shaper 😢.
One day maybe...
Perfect job for a shaper, always enjoy seeing a shaper ar work.
Indeed. Thanks.
Hi Michel, Well Done ! Enjoyed and was taking notes.
ATB....Dean
Thanks Dean.
Great tips!!! Thanks!!! 🎉🎉🎉
My pleasure.
I really appreciate you taking the time to make these videos. I learn something every time I watch one. Thanks from Alaska!
My pleasure.
really great vid again (love the comedy)🤣
Thanks.
Thanks for another great video!
I learn something new every time I watch you. Now that you've pointed it out, I see that the female part of a dovetail needs to be taller than the male. Of course it does; that makes perfect sense! It's a great example of something that just wouldn't have occurred to me if someone with more experience hadn't pointed it out. ...or until I tried to make one for the first time and wondered why my dovetail didn't fit and slide like it was 'supposed' to.
Thank you again! 😊
While doing it, you will quickly figure it out :)
Good video, nice explanation of the setup.
Thanks.
One of the advantages with shapers for the small workshop is cutters/tools can be made "at home" cheaply.
Absolutely right.
@@Rustinox
What many don't realise is that small shapers such as the Eliot and 10M are professional machine tools unlike the Micky Mouse amateur bench top milling machines.
Hi Michel, great video, some great editting as well. I particularly enjoyed seeing and hearing the slowed down cuts on the shaper 👌👌👌.
Very enjoyable to watch, good luck from Spain!!
Thanks David.
If My Sammie were here, she would have loved this one for sure. She always loved your since of humor and talents. After watching mr. Pete's videos a early this month on tool post ( a 2 parter vid) and showing dial indicators holders adapted to tool post, I like that concept. Had a buddy 3D print me up a few, but by fault on my part, I sent him the files for AXA not B type. So I now 5 AXA one to give away 😞. Since my shaper is still in pieces, will have to do on my mill as soon as I get in Randy Richards dove tail cutters 🙂. This was awesome Michel, and fill Sammie is watching and agreeing as well. Ole Bear in cold TX,,,burrrrrr!
Thanks for your kind words, Bear.
Very instructive, Rusty, and funny as well !
Thanks.
It's just amazing how versatile the shaper is, I guess you could have machined a bit more out and made room for a gib strip, but that's only if you wanted to! best wishes Rusti, cheers, Dave
On a shaper you can make whatever you want, Dave. Just do it :)
I like seeing shaper work. I enjoy your videos thanks for sharing them.
Thanks for the video. Keep more shaper projects coming!
That's the plan.
Great Video and fantastic explanation of the complex subject of managing the angles of the cutter and clapper box.
Thanks Fred.
Great video. I just picked up an Atlas Shaper. Your videos are very educational. Thanks for sharing.
That's nice. Have fun with it.
Great video rusty, keep'um coming..
Thanks. Will do.
You are always a treat to watch...absolutely love your sense of humor!
Very nice example of making do with what you have. Amazing things can be done with the simplest of tools.
Cheers from Canada
p.s.-Happy St. Patricks Day
Thanks .
Good educational video Michel. Just shows how versatile a shaper can be.
Regards.
Steve.
On a shaper you can make whatever you want.
Hi Michel ☺ this was great, and explaned quite simply . This just goes to show we don't need to over complicate things to end up whith a good result. Thanks for another interesting video mate, stay safe, best wishe's to you and your's, Stuart UK.
Thanks Stuart.
Excellent video very well explained and very well filmed.
Thanks John.
One of your best Michel, great to reference
Thanks. Feel free :)
I think the hardest part is roughing the centre part not sure best way like use parting tool and go ti depth in each section or rough out a vee as you did, i will try both
Well done Michel. Some day maybe I will have a shaper.🔧⚒🔩
In two years... :)
That's a good idea. When I was younger I tried to do that on a milling machine and made a mess of it.
Making a mess is just part of the proces.
Thanks! Good job! I would love to visit your shop and enjoy a bit of wine, or coffee or tea or whatever!
Thanks.
Well done as usual.
Thanks.
Nice outcome Rusti 👍, I intend to remake the compound for my little homemade Lathe in the coming months now that I have a mill, but alas, it will be with dovetail cutters
Do with what you have and be happy with it.
@@Rustinox Will do 👍
Michel, thanks for the video, this was one I’ve been waiting for. I saved it for future reference.
My pleasure, Mark.
Brilliant presentation, and subject.
Thanks.
Excellent work and video! Very well explained! Regards.
Thanks.
eyup Michel Nice one
I have to make a miniature dovetail soon, not decided on Mill or shaper yet, or a i may use a file🤣🤣🤔🤔👍👍👍👍👍👍
see you next time
Kev uk
It's your choice, Kev.
A great lesson Michel, thank you for sharing your knowledge. I really enjoyed the slow motion footage of the shaper in action. I really like this tool and hope to buy one some day.
Thanks Denis. Go for it.
Michel, another informative and entertaining video. The shaper is such a versatile tool to have, your explanations and blackboard drawing are very helpful to illustrate the proper fit of a dovetail. Thank you
Thanks Bill.
GREAT JOB ,THANKS KIMBER
Thanks Kimber.
Information plus entertainment. Ideal! 👍
Thanks.
Nice work, Rustinox. Tony
Thanks Tony.
Nice tips! Thanks
Soon Don, soon.
@@jdmccorful not sure on that Steve does things on his own timeline!
@@donmadere4237 I would have never guessed!
Thanks.
Wow!!! Im sure that i need have a shaper !!
I think so too :)
Great video Michel, that shaper requires good deal of patience, but it is a bit relaxing to watch. Enjoyed the vide, take care!
Well, it doesn't take more thime than doing it on the mill.
Very nice!
Thanks.
Excellent - many thanks. These are explanations I can follow :)
Highly enjoyable video. Presumably you would chamfer, radius or break edge the tip of the included angle on the female part to avoid interference ( and also to make fitment easier). Much in the same way as a brake disc register diameter has a sharper radius at its root than that of the hub against which it lies flat.
Thanks Richard. Breaking the corners is indeed the way to go.
Thank you Michael and whoever that other bozo was that said your measurements wouldn't work.
Now having made that part maybe you need to dream up a use for it. Perhaps a universal vertical slide for the lathe or the mill. Seems a pity to waste a perfectly good piece of steel with a 55° dovetail cut in it.
Just a suggestion from Canada's banana belt.
🤞🇨🇦🍌🥋🕊️🇺🇦🕊️🇧🇪👍.
Well, for the moment I don't have any use of it.
Using pins that are the correct diameter to suit the angle, allows the same measurement to be used for each part providing the deepest depth is used for the calculation. For 55 degrees the ideal pin diameter is 36.5% of the depth of the deepest dovetail. For other dovetail angles 60 degrees is 1/3rd of the depth & 45 degrees is 41% of the depth.
That's very interesting information. Thanks.
@@Rustinox No problem hope it helps one day. There is a full explanation in my video
" no trig matching dovetails?? "
@@machinists-shortcuts For fun, I did the math. So further to your excellent no trig video, the ratio of the pin diameter to depth is equal to the cosine of the dovetail angle divided by ( 1 + cosine of that angle).
@@richardjones-sl2zd That all works out to my calculations too. I will add your simplified formula to my video description for others to use if that is OK.
@@machinists-shortcuts I would be honored.
I’m thinking about making toolholders on the shaper! Great video, O and the gib you made fits perfectly! Thanks Rusty!
That's good news, Chris. Thanks for letting me know.
Thank you. This was both informative and very amusing.
"So it isn't possible. Goodbye. Wait..."
Very funny.
As you were setting up the tool slide angle I was wondering why you weren't hogging out the waste first.
In order to avoid interference between the tool and clamps might I suggest making some of Harold Hall's low profile clamps.
Setting the angle first saves me a setup. Because I need to install the original part to copy the angle.
Nice one! 👍
Thanks Tom.
nice work well done
Thanks.
Nice video and presentation.
I wonder if you have any video about dovetail shimming? Particularly two shins (end to end) adjustable by a one screw per end.
Unfortunately, I don't.
🎉🎉thank you
My pleasure.
I think the shaper I'd the better choice for the dovetail
Shapers tend to cut very straight
A milling machine leave always circular scratches in the workpiece
You're right, Martin.
How about straight slotting inside can you make a blog sir thanks nice job
I showed this in my gear cutting series.
Impressive thank you
Welcome.
Well done.
This is one of the jobs I'd preferrably do on a shaper (cost of a profile mill aside), because the surface roughness is in line with the movement which the piece would see in action. Therefor (in my brain, at least), it should wear less and produce less friction than the semicircle pattern a mill would leave.
And the surface finishis much better than on the mill.
Great video Rusti, before I make my lathe tool holders (how did you know?), I need to make myself some rails and clamping fixtures etc. Thanks for the very useful video! Cheers, Jon
Well, I didn't know...
This explanation is amazingly complete and concise. Thank you so much for all the effort you must have expended to teach us how along with the added humor that transcends all native languages (I especially like the pussy joke) 👍👍😎👍👍 One day I hope to find a shaper to add to the arsenal of metal cutting tools in my shed.
Thanks Joel. I'm sure one day you will find a shaper.
the hunger gets bigger and bigger when I see the shaper working again. I'm still rebuilding. question how long is the oil collection tray at the back of the ram slide
On my machine it's 180mm. It's the original one.
@@Rustinox thanks Michel. now i can make it as well. Gr Dominic
Hi Michel, great to see that. Yes a mill could be quicker but how often do you have the right cutter? Tooling is the killer on the mill if you don't have a customer to pay for it. Having both machines gives so many options. The fit on your new part was spot on. Cheers
I don't think the milling machine will do it faster.
Is there a reason to not do the rough cutting with a milling machine if you have access to one?
Rouching is much faster on the shaper. Plus, it saves me a setup.
Before watching this video. Yes I need to cut some dovetails. Need to make some tools for the lathe.
Ok watched the video. Yes! Very informative!
Thanks.
Maybe I need a shaper. 🤔
Could well be :)
nettes video zu schwalbenschwanzführungen. mir fehlt hier aber wie beim originalteil die einstellleiste. die höchste präzision hilft nichts wenn der verschleiß kommt und man nicht nachstellen kann.
zur präzision sei noch gesagt, dass das ausgangsmaterial bzw die parrallelität des ausgangsmaterials entscheidend ist für den schwalbenschwanz. jede minimale abweichung übernimmt man wenn man das werkstück ausspannt und umdreht. präziser wird es wenn man es tatsächlich eingespannt lässt und für seite 2 den hobelkopf auf die andere seite schwenkt.
einstellen kann man ihn dann mit einem winkelendmaß. ist auch zu empfehlen bei seite 1, da man ja einen fixen winkel erreichen will und nicht irgend ne krumme zahl, die sehr schlecht reproduzierbar ist.
The angle of this dove tail is not 60° (more or less 55°) so, to reset the same angle to the other side with the tool slide is very difficult. The methode I used (with the fence) is repeatable and works very well.
Something that annoys me is when someone says "I rough it out on the shaper ready for the milling machine". A shaper is every bit as accurate as a milling machine.
Absolutely. And the finish is much better.
@@Rustinox What is missed is the independence of tooling with a shaper that uses single point tooling. Milling cutters are expensive and difficult to sharpen.
Need a job shepar machine
One day you will find one. For sure.
I have only ever had two mills, a rong fu & now a clone. I only ever made the tool holders using a cheap dove tail cutter from china, I used the same idea as you did, rough out the centres and then the angles: only I cheated took the tool post from the lathe and test fitted it when I did the cuts. Not smart enough for the measuring .... Good onya
Absolutely nothing wrong with test fitting.
Like TOT says, The only thing you can't make with a shaper is a profit. lol
The typical statement made by people who doesn't know how to operate a shaper :)
@@Rustinox It doesn't say much for you being a machinist and not knowing This Old Tony and also his sense of humor. You could learn something...but then again, probably not.
@@daveunderwood6498 I like Tot very much. He has a fantastic channel. The problem is that people keep repeating that shapers are slow. I've prooven several times on my channel that they aren't.
"Enlightening", enjoyed watching; thanks!
Thanks John.