Great that they've found something they love, but I disagree with them saying that stuff which is being taught at universities is practically useless. Generally, knowledge is first of all never useless. Sure, everyone can build apps by learning things on the web but if you want to grow as a developer you need that fundamental CS knowledge. All these top tools that we use on our everyday lives are great just because they've been built by folks that excel at CS. I believe they will realise this too, when they reach a point in life where being familiar with technology X isn't enough.
I get your point @theguywhoiscoding . I'm French as well and have gone through the prepa track. I think you don't realize how disconnected this track can be from the real world. French people love theory and love mastering theory before diving into practice. What the two guys were saying IMHO is that in an engineering prepa track, you need to master physics and mathematics at a very high-level (tantamount to graduate level sometimes in the US) in order to enter a school that'll teach you basic CS stuff. It depends from school to school but a basic course like Data structure and algorithms is taught very late in your curriculum, so much so that students usually learn it earlier by themselves.
Yes and no. Straight out of school all you care about is whether or not you have the skills to be hired. Once employed, then you have the luxury to learn more deeply. If a school doesn't provide the resources(I'm talking about more than just classes here) to get you employed, then it doesn't matter if you understand the underlying principles or not. It's all about Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs here. Once you have an income to maintain food and shelter, then you can worry about esteem and self-actualization that a deep understanding of your craft brings.
Agreed that CS knowledge is not useless, but I think schools need to do a better job of showing students how theory applies to the real world otherwise it's hard to stay interested or really absorb the concepts.
Alex Oxthorn absolutely 100% true. As a 21yo living in a housing project that my family can barely afford I’d LOVE to spend years learning the inner workings of how has functions are implemented but I need to get employed and I’m always about to leave Uni and go full time on part time my job because university’s purpose is NOT to find a job.
I don't really agree on what is said about french engineering school. What is most important is certainly not the things that you learn, but rather HOW you learn. The most important skill to have as a developer and as an engineer is to know how to learn effectively and quickly, being able to read some documentation, to memorise the most important and useful things inside, and to use that information to build your own ideas. This, by learning math, physics, and basically anything hard, is the most important thing I get out of my engineering degree. As for Java, and all the supposedly old-fashioned course you can encounter in school, you still learn how to design applications, specifying them, testing them, group projects teach you a lot about planning and all the issues that arise from team working.. I don't say everything is perfect, but being an engineer is more about learning flexibility than the latest JS framework. Plus, JS Framework go out of fashion every 2 to 3 years, Java and C are still there from decades ago.
I totally agree with you. Unfortunately during the last years, it looks like that, at least for a lot of people, it's more useful to learn how to use some technologies. But as you pointed out when you get a degree in engineering you achieve a good mindset where you're able to learn and improve your self fairly easy.
The problem with us 'hippie' developers is that we couldn't use the 'theory' from universities in our daily lives, so we think schools are shit and everyone should just go to TH-cam or a bootcamp. However the cold reality is, if it wasn't for such 'theoretical' knowledge, there wouldn't be any computers or the internet or even any programming language like JS that we 'hippie web devs' use to make our 'awesome' apps...
@Nino Filiu studying chemistry and quantum physics is really overkill, the curriculum of many universities won't do that with cs students. I study cs and I don't think i would do it if I had to go through that stuff
@Nino Filiu Hi Nino! I forgot how tightly knitted our Honeypot community is! Just to clarify, I in no sense meant any disrespect since I'm exactly that 'hippie' dev myself... Everything I learned and do at my job is something I taught myself where my university added little to no context. However since I'm like the hippie dev, a lot of my friends are like the hippie dev too. So now I keep hearing almost everyone asking each other to no go to university and to not get a formal education, but I def think this way of evolution will kill not just us hippie devs but the whole community of science and technology lol.
I feel so much like the second guy. When I learnt python I was amazed by small small things. He also comes across really humble. All the best to both of them. Would love to meet them in person when I am in Paris next time.
@@jamesbissick3439 I don't 100% agree with you. You have to know that French is a latin language with very few different sounds. While english is very rich in its variety of pronunciation, much more than french. This partly explains why it is difficult for a French person not to have an accent when speaking english. That said, I am not judging them and it is a source of pride to listen to French developers express themselves here on Honeypot ! :)
@@Tonyhunterblade Not entirely true. Swiss and Quebec people have a better pronunciation. I'm not sure why, it may be because French schools don't do it right but probably also because Swiss for example listen to a lot of English and movies in English. We are also more exposed to English Speaking people given the number of multinational companies in the country. Bottom line is we are always horrified at the level of English of our big neighbours. And by the way, it is THE not ZE ! haha.
Really like how the second guy mentioned he didn’t even know it was a career at first, he just liked doing it. Was the same way for me, when I found out I could make a living off of it, it blew my mind.
@@quanny4690 hun that's a valid reason I will say ! family for example. But i think that it give many poeple the freedom to live in lost cost cities too .
👨💻Key take away at 10:21 - the industry has started to realise that you can get to the same level of competency in development if you go to a really elitist school or by studying online with free resources. 📖A clear theme of this video is that both people were good students and performed well in their education; but they both learned what they needed to advance their careers online in a self taught way. 🧠It is probable that the body of work and associated skills that they studied at university informs and enhances their development progress even if they claim to have used it "zero percent" for some jobs, and disregard it as being too abstract for the real world; but it does also give plenty of hope for those pursuing the self taught route. 👾A repeated meditation on the fact that at the time of recording there is a disconnect between the material that educational institutions are focusing on; and the real world skills that developers need for the workplace today.
Don't worry, we got some more open source documentaries coming your way 🎬 Corona has annoyingly postponed some of our biggest projects. But trust me, it'll be worth the wait 😏
For people that have the same love for cleaning up folders on the Mac: try out the Automator utility app (you already have it) and combine the Quick Actions option with Bash Scripts. Now you can trigger scripts directly from the right click whilst passing folders and files as arguments. It's very addictive. 😄
From one of the comments by the person in the video: "I do agree that theoretical knowledge is useful, but you can't even imagine how the curriculum of french universities, especially prépa, is out of touch with reality. To access CS universities, we have to spend two years studying chemistry, mechanics, quantum physics, and algebra. We almost don't talk about any of the theory relevant in CS like language theory, graph theory, etc."
Personally, I don't think that you don't use anything. It's not true, you might use that math knowledge unconsciously or something like that but definitely, if you don't learn the lower-level understanding of computing you won't be able to optimize and innovate, you can only work on the surfaces
thanks for the content IDK why but that glitch effect bugs me . as programmer UK only a game or graphical program glitches when It's not compiled right or u goofed some where in the code it reminds me of the bad times 😫 Please don't use it again😅
I don't agree with the part that you don't learn anything in the French school system,i'am Algerian and here we follow a french format of high studies and no i don't agree at all,you don't learn the hottest technologies and stuff like that for sure but the basics of CS are there
Come to India, you'll understand how important algorithms and data structures are for cracking coding interviews even for startups even though they're not using it and still writing shitty code.
after using France made free softwares like -VOIceMeter Banana, Gta V mods i realase how great French programmers are you r right University courses have tiny knowledge and have no use in real life. i an a BBA graduade.i learned android development by myself online
![Kubernetes: The Documentary [PART 1]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/BE77h7dmoQU/mqdefault.jpg)
There is atleast one guy in the comment section who says Honeypot is Netflix for developers every time there's a new video
We love those guys 🥰
This time its me 😅😅. . .
It even says: Honeypot Originals.
Great that they've found something they love, but I disagree with them saying that stuff which is being taught at universities is practically useless. Generally, knowledge is first of all never useless. Sure, everyone can build apps by learning things on the web but if you want to grow as a developer you need that fundamental CS knowledge. All these top tools that we use on our everyday lives are great just because they've been built by folks that excel at CS. I believe they will realise this too, when they reach a point in life where being familiar with technology X isn't enough.
I get your point @theguywhoiscoding . I'm French as well and have gone through the prepa track. I think you don't realize how disconnected this track can be from the real world. French people love theory and love mastering theory before diving into practice. What the two guys were saying IMHO is that in an engineering prepa track, you need to master physics and mathematics at a very high-level (tantamount to graduate level sometimes in the US) in order to enter a school that'll teach you basic CS stuff. It depends from school to school but a basic course like Data structure and algorithms is taught very late in your curriculum, so much so that students usually learn it earlier by themselves.
Yes and no. Straight out of school all you care about is whether or not you have the skills to be hired. Once employed, then you have the luxury to learn more deeply. If a school doesn't provide the resources(I'm talking about more than just classes here) to get you employed, then it doesn't matter if you understand the underlying principles or not. It's all about Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs here. Once you have an income to maintain food and shelter, then you can worry about esteem and self-actualization that a deep understanding of your craft brings.
Agreed that CS knowledge is not useless, but I think schools need to do a better job of showing students how theory applies to the real world otherwise it's hard to stay interested or really absorb the concepts.
Prepa track/engineering school is great to learn how to learn enormous amount of knowledge in limited time and have critical thinking
Alex Oxthorn absolutely 100% true. As a 21yo living in a housing project that my family can barely afford I’d LOVE to spend years learning the inner workings of how has functions are implemented but I need to get employed and I’m always about to leave Uni and go full time on part time my job because university’s purpose is NOT to find a job.
Honeypot is Netflix for developers
True
Couldn’t have said it better
So unoriginal just came from vue js and it had the same comment
@@user-mb1kj8gt8b because it's true
agree:)
The fact that Honeypot still keeps making videos to inspire us, amidst this global pandemic is worth appreciating! 💕
We try!! 💕
I don't really agree on what is said about french engineering school.
What is most important is certainly not the things that you learn, but rather HOW you learn. The most important skill to have as a developer and as an engineer is to know how to learn effectively and quickly, being able to read some documentation, to memorise the most important and useful things inside, and to use that information to build your own ideas.
This, by learning math, physics, and basically anything hard, is the most important thing I get out of my engineering degree. As for Java, and all the supposedly old-fashioned course you can encounter in school, you still learn how to design applications, specifying them, testing them, group projects teach you a lot about planning and all the issues that arise from team working..
I don't say everything is perfect, but being an engineer is more about learning flexibility than the latest JS framework. Plus, JS Framework go out of fashion every 2 to 3 years, Java and C are still there from decades ago.
I totally agree with you. Unfortunately during the last years, it looks like that, at least for a lot of people, it's more useful to learn how to use some technologies. But as you pointed out when you get a degree in engineering you achieve a good mindset where you're able to learn and improve your self fairly easy.
The problem with us 'hippie' developers is that we couldn't use the 'theory' from universities in our daily lives, so we think schools are shit and everyone should just go to TH-cam or a bootcamp. However the cold reality is, if it wasn't for such 'theoretical' knowledge, there wouldn't be any computers or the internet or even any programming language like JS that we 'hippie web devs' use to make our 'awesome' apps...
@Nino Filiu studying chemistry and quantum physics is really overkill, the curriculum of many universities won't do that with cs students. I study cs and I don't think i would do it if I had to go through that stuff
@Nino Filiu Hi Nino! I forgot how tightly knitted our Honeypot community is! Just to clarify, I in no sense meant any disrespect since I'm exactly that 'hippie' dev myself... Everything I learned and do at my job is something I taught myself where my university added little to no context. However since I'm like the hippie dev, a lot of my friends are like the hippie dev too. So now I keep hearing almost everyone asking each other to no go to university and to not get a formal education, but I def think this way of evolution will kill not just us hippie devs but the whole community of science and technology lol.
I feel so much like the second guy. When I learnt python I was amazed by small small things. He also comes across really humble. All the best to both of them. Would love to meet them in person when I am in Paris next time.
@Nino Filiu Merci. Sure thing I will hit you up when I will be in Paris next time.
As a french I find their french accent really interesting :P (but really proud to listen french developers here ! Bravo les gars !)
@@jamesbissick3439 I don't 100% agree with you. You have to know that French is a latin language with very few different sounds. While english is very rich in its variety of pronunciation, much more than french. This partly explains why it is difficult for a French person not to have an accent when speaking english. That said, I am not judging them and it is a source of pride to listen to French developers express themselves here on Honeypot ! :)
@@Tonyhunterblade Not entirely true. Swiss and Quebec people have a better pronunciation. I'm not sure why, it may be because French schools don't do it right but probably also because Swiss for example listen to a lot of English and movies in English. We are also more exposed to English Speaking people given the number of multinational companies in the country. Bottom line is we are always horrified at the level of English of our big neighbours. And by the way, it is THE not ZE ! haha.
L'accent français est à peine supportable...
We are glad that they have talked in English.. so no worries about accent 😂😂
The ending with the two guys talking was dope as hell
I really have to say I love your short documentaries! Watching them over and over again.Looking forward for the next one.
You know someone is an hacker, when they wear an USB drive as an earring.
Really like how the second guy mentioned he didn’t even know it was a career at first, he just liked doing it. Was the same way for me, when I found out I could make a living off of it, it blew my mind.
Same here! :)
People, we've got eazy here
@@VasoNersezashvili 🙋♂️
Honeypot come do a documentary about Nigerian developers
If remote becomes popular, then what's the point of living in these cities with high cot of living?
There is no. That's why remote work is so great
lifestyle, friends, etc. plenty of reasons
@@quanny4690 hun that's a valid reason I will say ! family for example. But i think that it give many poeple the freedom to live in lost cost cities too .
Tbh, I'd move in some other town even if I work remote :D Because of other obligations which needs you in your place :D
Imagine making a 6 figure salary working remote on a low-cost city.
Please create more videos. I love Europe. One day I will be there as a Software Engineer.
Mate, you DO NOT write code directly on master 1:38
Very interesting, btw is it possible to get the title of the last song played in the video ?
👨💻Key take away at 10:21 - the industry has started to realise that you can get to the same level of competency in development if you go to a really elitist school or by studying online with free resources.
📖A clear theme of this video is that both people were good students and performed well in their education; but they both learned what they needed to advance their careers online in a self taught way.
🧠It is probable that the body of work and associated skills that they studied at university informs and enhances their development progress even if they claim to have used it "zero percent" for some jobs, and disregard it as being too abstract for the real world; but it does also give plenty of hope for those pursuing the self taught route.
👾A repeated meditation on the fact that at the time of recording there is a disconnect between the material that educational institutions are focusing on; and the real world skills that developers need for the workplace today.
Great video we miss you documentaries... hope someday you can give us a documentary for react or deno.
Don't worry, we got some more open source documentaries coming your way 🎬 Corona has annoyingly postponed some of our biggest projects. But trust me, it'll be worth the wait 😏
Damn, the super hipster guy is creating art on a windows machine! Love that he is not using a Mac 😂
he's broke thats all XD using linux after all everything UNIX
Nino Filiu bro you're a homie
For people that have the same love for cleaning up folders on the Mac: try out the Automator utility app (you already have it) and combine the Quick Actions option with Bash Scripts. Now you can trigger scripts directly from the right click whilst passing folders and files as arguments. It's very addictive. 😄
en voila un beau mulet !
High quality and high content as always, and sending my hi to Honeypot:)
Very inspirational! Also, where can I get a track list?
0:27 c'est où ce pont o.0 ? Y a ça à Paris ?
Yup, in Parc des Buttes-Chaumont! 🌳
@@Honeypotio merci : )
We need to see that every day, It motivates us... Keep up
Great doc honeypot! actually talks about development.
Please add Amsterdam to your list. Thanks
Great idea 😏
Absolutely adored this!
Dude coulda cleaned up his apt a bit before the interview, he didn't even close the door lol. 2:39
it adds reality
Nino Filiu LOL
University should be more theoretical. If you want industry knowledge go to a trade school or boot camp.
From one of the comments by the person in the video:
"I do agree that theoretical knowledge is useful, but you can't even imagine how the curriculum of french universities, especially prépa, is out of touch with reality. To access CS universities, we have to spend two years studying chemistry, mechanics, quantum physics, and algebra. We almost don't talk about any of the theory relevant in CS like language theory, graph theory, etc."
Great video. Looking forward to the next.
very cool perspective
I'm always wondering how is the network engineers days like🤔
That’s the same as computer science degrees here in Italy.
great toucan touco advert
"you don't have to worry abt human error"
Very accurate point of view!
HoneyPot is "Amazon Prime" for developers.
Awesome video.
So a lot of Talent!
Y a des français ?🙄
oh at last one developer on screen without mac laptop
Personally, I don't think that you don't use anything. It's not true, you might use that math knowledge unconsciously or something like that but definitely, if you don't learn the lower-level understanding of computing you won't be able to optimize and innovate, you can only work on the surfaces
Do more cities please!!
Oh we will! 😏 Do you have any cities that you find particularly interesting?
Honeypot Medellin!!! and London hahah
thanks for the content
IDK why but that glitch effect bugs me .
as programmer UK only a game or graphical program glitches when It's not compiled right or u goofed some where in the code it reminds me of the bad times 😫
Please don't use it again😅
That script to clean up the bin was something out of this world. Be carefull, Elon Musk, he's coming for you.
When in Munich? :)
I don't agree with the part that you don't learn anything in the French school system,i'am Algerian and here we follow a french format of high studies and no i don't agree at all,you don't learn the hottest technologies and stuff like that for sure but the basics of CS are there
These guys seems so interesting, would love to hang out with them...
Come to India, you'll understand how important algorithms and data structures are for cracking coding interviews even for startups even though they're not using it and still writing shitty code.
1:26 looks like a young Owen Wilson.
nice style :)
Gentlemen....he finds math calming lol:))
For chinese developer , the situation is totally different
If you want fintech software engineer in London hit me up, substantially less hipster than your other selections though 😅
in ze trache
I am a simple man I see 🍯 pot I click
The guy is apparently a mathematics prodigy so of course he finds University a waste of time. Some of us less gifted folks don't.
I like their accent ;)
Za French Developerz are za funny in za worldz.
first sentence, 3s, one french one complaint XD Dude school is free at France ! COMON
Super!
Mallets...
Is there sex after death ?? 😂
🙂😊
the english is so broken, needs subs.
why are they weird?
Aren’t we all? 🥳
Did he seriously just say that French people don’t speak English well and don’t want to improve?... talk about the pot calling the kettle black...
He’s not a real programmer
ok gaucho
i hope he stop smoking
Codeflix
Codeflix and chill? 😏
I am a foreigner living in Tallinn, come make a documentary about me 😉
he needs a hairdresser
no he don't
@@cathysanchiaz891 doesn't ?
mdr
while(honeypot_exist){
i_am_always_in("Happy :) :) ");
}
Lmao they all hate uni
:)
after using France made free softwares like -VOIceMeter Banana, Gta V mods
i realase how great French programmers are
you r right University courses have tiny knowledge and have no use in real life. i an a BBA graduade.i learned android development by myself online