It can bow on large doors. Ever set a piece of MDF down in a way that doesn't totally support it flat and see the way it bends and holds that bend? I would never guarantee it is free from all issues of wood because it is not... it's still a wood based product.
As a decorator of sash windows and living in the UK with dubious weather it is rare not to see a crack open up between the rails and the stiles due to the issues that you mention, 4 years ago I made some windows out of construction grade treated timber using lap joints and decided to soak the end grain with wood hardener liquid usually intended for wet rot, the windows received 1 waterborne primer/undercoat 1 coat of waterborne undercoat and 1 coat of oil-based gloss, these windows are battered daily by UK weather and 4 years later not even a hairline crack, wet rot hardener set the wood like stone practically, just thought i would mention it as worked very well for me. excellent video sorry I am a bit off-topic.
Excellent, thorough and in-depth information packed into this video... nice work! It's a real asset for customer education and woodworkers...👍👍 Best, Matt
I see all your points but you forgot 1 major point about MDF and solid wood. MDF does not hold screws well at all qnd since doors have hinges on them i always prefer solid wood frame with mdf panel.
Thanks for commenting! You're right, this can be an issue with MDF in general but it's not one we experience with our cabinet doors. The weight of the door is taken by the cup hinges, not the screws. The hinge screws are simply retaining the cup hinge not taking any weight. In addition, the knobs and pulls are through holes so do not have this issue as the threads are not retaining the screws but the head. We do offer solid wood doors or the hybrid type you mention for people with this concern. In our opinion, the other benefits of MDF doors outweigh this small risk. Once properly installed they perform very well.
Great video and information. Please consider adding any information related to attaching hinges to MDF, the best type of hinge to carry the load, the type of screws, inserts...
Not sure what they use but you can use a water based primer. My process is BM 507 primer (it's their sanding primer). Sand the routed MDF to 220, prime, sand again to 220, prime again, sand again to 220. You should have a very smooth surface now and the fibers are sealed and ready to paint.
Great info. I constructed my own built-ins and painted them white. I opted to use MDF for all the reasons you just mentions. They turned out great, and seem to be really strong. Would MDF be acceptable to use as face frames on the cabinets?
Great video, quick question for you. What about the screws holding the hinges. I feel like mdf doesn’t really hold the screws as good as wood and in time the screws get loose
There is a reason MDF cabinets are cheaper and considered bottom feeders. Yes MDF is more stable than hardwood under some situations…and less expensive but these are the only things I can say about this product. At least he was honest enough to admit it falls apart in everyday situations which occur in our kitchens or bathrooms. Don’t wash your kids or dogs around MDF cabinets or MDF baseboards. Make sure not to use too much mop water in the kitchen or let that pot boil over or spill your pet’s water DISH, etc, etc 😒
For other viewers who read this comment, please know that there are plenty of independent publications that talk about MDF cabinet doors vs solid wood for painting. MDF's benefits for cabinetry vs it’s liabilities are well-documented and it pays to do your research. MDF baseboards are a totally different density and quality of MDF, so in the case of comparing baseboards to cabinets, it's really apples to oranges.
@UC0AvBMKZCa-QL770RgrcbSw : All true about the life of painted wood surfaces, but... 1. are there cosmetic issues with the painted * edges * of MDF? 2. issues with the strength and durability of fixation (i.e., at hinges) with MDF? 3. Does Conestoga use cabinet-grade MDF?
1. Not if the MDF quality is high and the manufacturer is taking the proper care to seal off and sand the MDF fibers prior to painting. Not doing so results in an 'orange peel' effect on machined surfaces. 2. None. MDF is flat, does not warp/bow/twist/split like painted solid wood may do. Hinges do not tear out provided they are installed correctly (do not over screw, do not predrill with too large a bit, etc). MDF does not like water (humidity is fine, standing water is not) as it swells, etc. be mindful of the environment you are installing it in. 3. Yes, they use the highest grade MDF you can find and test rigorously to ensure the MDF is high enough quality to ensure the finest final painted product.
@@CabinetJoint I liked the video...however, never had good luck with screwing into MDF... may not be a problem right away, but over time lots of issues in my experience...the material is simply softer than real wood and yields to very small stresses which occur over time...
If the MDF is high quality (not the stuff at Lowe’s or HD) and you predrill, MDF is fine for screw hold. Here is one of many articles addressing the subject. www.woodworkingnetwork.com/best-practices-guide/solid-wood-machining/why-cant-i-screw-mdf
Please don't feel compelled to answer based on opinion, please answer based on established facts. We are not the only ones saying MDF is superior for painting vs solid wood. Our videos are for our customers who are purchasing Conestoga product and need the information to make good decisions and Conestoga strongly recommends MDF as do the vast majority of woodworkers. They are all sick and tired of fielding the same complaints over and over of corner joints telegraphing hairline cracks, halo affect, etc. By all means, please feel free to research this topic online. If you can find articles that position solid wood as superior to MDF for painted cabinet doors, absolutely post the link here so our viewers can get a well-rounded interpretation of the issue.
CabinetJoint mdf is superior for painting, yes, but it is no way a superior product when compared to wood. So yes it does paint nicer, but no it will not last as long. I’d rather have a few expansion and contraction issues than have a whole set of doors fail over time. I speak as a 20 plus year cabinet builder and installer.
@@jeffpower6473 MDF is FAR better than it used to be and lasts a VERY VERY long time. Mine and my wife's house has solid wood cabinets that are 15 years old and my parents have MDF cabinets that are 13 years old and their cabinets are still holding up better than our cabinets. I have had to fix 2 doors from the screws pulling out of the face board and one track fell from the screw pulling out of the side. Both cabinets came from the same company as well. I'm actually just going to rebuild all of the cabinets myself and i'm going to go MDF this time.
spydergs07 have fun! Glad you're not hiring me to do it 😄 Sounds to me like the quality of the plywood used as well as the quality of the construction is suspect.
I used MDF for some drawer fronts about 20 years ago. I sprayed the finish and put a lot of effort into sealing. I used hammer tone industrial enamel. Eventually the humidity won. I have some moisture resistant MDF on order to try this time. Does anyone have experience painting MR product?
![Painting MDF Doors [video 407]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/ZIwNJGlVtwc/mqdefault.jpg)
![Painting MDF Doors [video 407]](/img/tr.png)
I make MDF doors for a reason that he didn't mention. MDF doesn't cup, bow, or twist.
It can bow on large doors. Ever set a piece of MDF down in a way that doesn't totally support it flat and see the way it bends and holds that bend? I would never guarantee it is free from all issues of wood because it is not... it's still a wood based product.
This is truly an outstanding video. This was very thorough/covered a lot of ground. Truly appreciate all the info
As a decorator of sash windows and living in the UK with dubious weather it is rare not to see a crack open up between the rails and the stiles due to the issues that you mention, 4 years ago I made some windows out of construction grade treated timber using lap joints and decided to soak the end grain with wood hardener liquid usually intended for wet rot, the windows received 1 waterborne primer/undercoat 1 coat of waterborne undercoat and 1 coat of oil-based gloss, these windows are battered daily by UK weather and 4 years later not even a hairline crack, wet rot hardener set the wood like stone practically, just thought i would mention it as worked very well for me. excellent video sorry I am a bit off-topic.
Excellent, thorough and in-depth information packed into this video... nice work! It's a real asset for customer education and woodworkers...👍👍
Best, Matt
I didn't know mdf starts off 6ft thick and is then compressed to what I think looks like 3/4" thick.
Excellent - Conestoga is top shelf (scuse the pun) - thanks are alleviating my horror as to Conestoga's use of the miracle cellulose - MDF ..
Thank you! Really helped with our decision in our home being built.
If you live under water, MDF is a poor choice.
Sorry Sponge-bob.
Very good information ,thank you sir
I see all your points but you forgot 1 major point about MDF and solid wood. MDF does not hold screws well at all qnd since doors have hinges on them i always prefer solid wood frame with mdf panel.
Thanks for commenting! You're right, this can be an issue with MDF in general but it's not one we experience with our cabinet doors. The weight of the door is taken by the cup hinges, not the screws. The hinge screws are simply retaining the cup hinge not taking any weight.
In addition, the knobs and pulls are through holes so do not have this issue as the threads are not retaining the screws but the head.
We do offer solid wood doors or the hybrid type you mention for people with this concern. In our opinion, the other benefits of MDF doors outweigh this small risk. Once properly installed they perform very well.
Great video and information. Please consider adding any information related to attaching hinges to MDF, the best type of hinge to carry the load, the type of screws, inserts...
What is the sanding sealer? And what can go overtop of it? Is it shellac based or latex based or oil based?
Not sure what they use but you can use a water based primer. My process is BM 507 primer (it's their sanding primer). Sand the routed MDF to 220, prime, sand again to 220, prime again, sand again to 220. You should have a very smooth surface now and the fibers are sealed and ready to paint.
Great info. I constructed my own built-ins and painted them white. I opted to use MDF for all the reasons you just mentions. They turned out great, and seem to be really strong. Would MDF be acceptable to use as face frames on the cabinets?
Hi Shop Therapy, I see you got no response, but did you ever find out the answer to your question? I’m curious to know that as well.
@@sheldonmhunt No, I never looked into it and never found the answer. I honestly might just try it and see what happens (maybe like a shop cabinet)
@@ShopTherapy623 thanks for the response. I’m thinking of using MDF face frames for a linen closet hallway built in.
Great video, quick question for you. What about the screws holding the hinges. I feel like mdf doesn’t really hold the screws as good as wood and in time the screws get loose
Great video, I'm in the UK so probably not ordering from them, but great info especially on the middle density and sealing.
Thanks for watching!
What about MDO?
Great informative video! Is it ideal to use MDF for cabinet face frames as well?
Not at all. MDF won't stand a chance against all the real life abuse face frames experience.
thank you for the clear explanation!
You're welcome. Thanks for watching!
excellent video!!! thanks for sharing this.
Excellent thank you
Glad it was helpful!
There is a reason MDF cabinets are cheaper and considered bottom feeders. Yes MDF is more stable than hardwood under some situations…and less expensive but these are the only things I can say about this product. At least he was honest enough to admit it falls apart in everyday situations which occur in our kitchens or bathrooms. Don’t wash your kids or dogs around MDF cabinets or MDF baseboards. Make sure not to use too much mop water in the kitchen or let that pot boil over or spill your pet’s water DISH, etc, etc 😒
For other viewers who read this comment, please know that there are plenty of independent publications that talk about MDF cabinet doors vs solid wood for painting. MDF's benefits for cabinetry vs it’s liabilities are well-documented and it pays to do your research. MDF baseboards are a totally different density and quality of MDF, so in the case of comparing baseboards to cabinets, it's really apples to oranges.
So basically only go with mdf if you don’t have kids
What about HDF instead of MDF?😊
I’m working in a cabinet shop I’m the painter and yes sealing the MDF is key what do you believe the best sealer and paint to be?
Which is better for bedroom Mdf or plywood ?
Where are you located
We have a showroom in Dillsburg, PA and a shop in Gettysburg, PA. We ship Nationwide.
What does the paint look difference between painting the MDF and the Wood frame
Great question! No, you will not notice a difference in the finish between the two.
Do you use MDF or HDF?
@UC0AvBMKZCa-QL770RgrcbSw : All true about the life of painted wood surfaces, but...
1. are there cosmetic issues with the painted * edges * of MDF?
2. issues with the strength and durability of fixation (i.e., at hinges) with MDF?
3. Does Conestoga use cabinet-grade MDF?
1. Not if the MDF quality is high and the manufacturer is taking the proper care to seal off and sand the MDF fibers prior to painting. Not doing so results in an 'orange peel' effect on machined surfaces.
2. None. MDF is flat, does not warp/bow/twist/split like painted solid wood may do. Hinges do not tear out provided they are installed correctly (do not over screw, do not predrill with too large a bit, etc). MDF does not like water (humidity is fine, standing water is not) as it swells, etc. be mindful of the environment you are installing it in.
3. Yes, they use the highest grade MDF you can find and test rigorously to ensure the MDF is high enough quality to ensure the finest final painted product.
@@CabinetJoint I liked the video...however, never had good luck with screwing into MDF... may not be a problem right away, but over time lots of issues in my experience...the material is simply softer than real wood and yields to very small stresses which occur over time...
If the MDF is high quality (not the stuff at Lowe’s or HD) and you predrill, MDF is fine for screw hold. Here is one of many articles addressing the subject. www.woodworkingnetwork.com/best-practices-guide/solid-wood-machining/why-cant-i-screw-mdf
Can u just offer a solid front instead of center panels
We do offer about nine One-piece MDF door styles.
That was awesome information! Thank you!
can one just get flat panel door of MDF
Yes, we do offer Slab MDF doors.
superior product!!!!!!!my arse .glue and dust should be banned
Please don't feel compelled to answer based on opinion, please answer based on established facts. We are not the only ones saying MDF is superior for painting vs solid wood. Our videos are for our customers who are purchasing Conestoga product and need the information to make good decisions and Conestoga strongly recommends MDF as do the vast majority of woodworkers. They are all sick and tired of fielding the same complaints over and over of corner joints telegraphing hairline cracks, halo affect, etc. By all means, please feel free to research this topic online. If you can find articles that position solid wood as superior to MDF for painted cabinet doors, absolutely post the link here so our viewers can get a well-rounded interpretation of the issue.
CabinetJoint mdf is superior for painting, yes, but it is no way a superior product when compared to wood. So yes it does paint nicer, but no it will not last as long. I’d rather have a few expansion and contraction issues than have a whole set of doors fail over time.
I speak as a 20 plus year cabinet builder and installer.
@@jeffpower6473 MDF is FAR better than it used to be and lasts a VERY VERY long time.
Mine and my wife's house has solid wood cabinets that are 15 years old and my parents have MDF cabinets that are 13 years old and their cabinets are still holding up better than our cabinets.
I have had to fix 2 doors from the screws pulling out of the face board and one track fell from the screw pulling out of the side. Both cabinets came from the same company as well.
I'm actually just going to rebuild all of the cabinets myself and i'm going to go MDF this time.
spydergs07 have fun! Glad you're not hiring me to do it 😄
Sounds to me like the quality of the plywood used as well as the quality of the construction is suspect.
I used MDF for some drawer fronts about 20 years ago. I sprayed the finish and put a lot of effort into sealing. I used hammer tone industrial enamel.
Eventually the humidity won.
I have some moisture resistant MDF on order to try this time. Does anyone have experience painting MR product?