This stuff changed my mind about MDF projects
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 14 มี.ค. 2023
- ★THIS VIDEO WAS MADE POSSIBLE BY★
-Helical carbide jointer/planer heads from MyWoodCutters: mywoodcutters.com/
My table saw and other great shop machines are from Harvey Woodworking Machinery: www.harveywoodworking.com/
Please help support us by using the link above for a quick look around!
(If you use one of these affiliate links, we may receive a small commission)
Some other useful links:
-More videos on our website: stumpynubs.com/
-Subscribe to our e-Magazine: stumpynubs.com/browse-and-sub...
-Check out our project plans: stumpynubs.com/product-catego...
-Instagram: / stumpynubs
-Twitter: / stumpynubs
★SOME OF MY FAVORITE CHEAP TOOLS★
-123 Blocks: lddy.no/vpij
-Mechanical Pencils: amzn.to/2PA7bwK
-Lumber pencil: amzn.to/2QtwZjv
-Pocket Measuring Tape: amzn.to/2kNTlI9
-Irwin Drill Bit Gauge: amzn.to/2AwTkQg
-Nut/Bolt/Screw Gauge: amzn.to/2CuvxSK
-Self-Centering Punch: amzn.to/2QvbcrC
-Self-Centering Bits: amzn.to/2xs71UW
-Angle Cube: lddy.no/10nam
-Steel Ruler: lddy.no/10mv7
-Utility knife: amzn.to/3nfhIiv
-Center-Finding Ruler: lddy.no/10nak
-Bit & Blade Cleaner: amzn.to/2TfvEOI
-Digital depth gauge: amzn.to/3mwRf2x
-Wood Glue: amzn.to/3mqek6M
-Spade Bits: amzn.to/3j8XPtD
★SOME OF MY FAVORITE HAND TOOLS★
-Digital Caliper: amzn.to/384H1Or
-Marking Gauge: lddy.no/10muz
-Marking knife: lddy.no/10mv0
-Narex Chisels: lddy.no/sqm3
-Stanley Sweetheart Chisels: amzn.to/3y5HDOc
-Mini Pull Saw: amzn.to/2UEHBz6
-Gent Saw: lddy.no/ss2x
-Coping saw: amzn.to/2W7ZiUS
-Shinwa Rulers: lddy.no/zl13
★SOME OF MY FAVORITE POWER TOOLS★
-Miter Saw: amzn.to/3gqIlQ8
-Jointer: amzn.to/3yc3gfZ
-Planer: amzn.to/3mn6BGF
-Router: amzn.to/3grD22S
-Sander: amzn.to/3DdvD0Y
-Cordless drill: amzn.to/3D9ZiIm
-Brad nailer: amzn.to/3gsRkjH
-Mini Compressor: amzn.to/3mvrmQr
-Bladerunner: amzn.to/2Wl0TtJ
-Jig Saw: amzn.to/3zetTBY
-Scroll Saw: amzn.to/3gq9qDc
-Multi-Tool: amzn.to/3muZuMi
★SOME OF MY FAVORITE OTHER TOOLS★
-Drill Bits: amzn.to/3B8Ckzh
-Forstner Bits: amzn.to/3kk3wEI
-Shop Vacuum: amzn.to/2Wkqnbl
-Machine Setup Blocks: amzn.to/3gq7kDh
-Counter-Sink Bit: amzn.to/37ZukUo
-Featherboard: amzn.to/3DeqHsq
-ISOtunes Hearing Protection (Save $10): bit.ly/3BHYdH7
(If you use one of the affiliate links above, we may receive a small commission) - แนวปฏิบัติและการใช้ชีวิต
★THIS VIDEO WAS MADE POSSIBLE BY★
-Helical carbide jointer/planer heads from MyWoodCutters: mywoodcutters.com/
*My table saw and other great shop machines are from Harvey Woodworking Machinery:* www.harveywoodworking.com/
*Please help support us by using the link above for a quick look around!*
(If you use one of these affiliate links, we may receive a small commission)
*Some other useful links:*
-More videos on our website: stumpynubs.com/
-Subscribe to our e-Magazine: stumpynubs.com/browse-and-subscribe/
-Check out our project plans: stumpynubs.com/product-category/plans/
-Instagram: instagram.com/stumpynubs/
-Twitter: twitter.com/StumpyNubs
★SOME OF MY FAVORITE CHEAP TOOLS★
-123 Blocks: lddy.no/vpij
-Mechanical Pencils: amzn.to/2PA7bwK
-Lumber pencil: amzn.to/2QtwZjv
-Pocket Measuring Tape: amzn.to/2kNTlI9
-Irwin Drill Bit Gauge: amzn.to/2AwTkQg
-Nut/Bolt/Screw Gauge: amzn.to/2CuvxSK
-Self-Centering Punch: amzn.to/2QvbcrC
-Self-Centering Bits: amzn.to/2xs71UW
-Angle Cube: lddy.no/10nam
-Steel Ruler: lddy.no/10mv7
-Utility knife: amzn.to/3nfhIiv
-Center-Finding Ruler: lddy.no/10nak
-Bit & Blade Cleaner: amzn.to/2TfvEOI
-Digital depth gauge: amzn.to/3mwRf2x
-Wood Glue: amzn.to/3mqek6M
-Spade Bits: amzn.to/3j8XPtD
★SOME OF MY FAVORITE HAND TOOLS★
-Digital Caliper: amzn.to/384H1Or
-Marking Gauge: lddy.no/10muz
-Marking knife: lddy.no/10mv0
-Narex Chisels: lddy.no/sqm3
-Stanley Sweetheart Chisels: amzn.to/3y5HDOc
-Mini Pull Saw: amzn.to/2UEHBz6
-Gent Saw: lddy.no/ss2x
-Coping saw: amzn.to/2W7ZiUS
-Shinwa Rulers: lddy.no/zl13
★SOME OF MY FAVORITE POWER TOOLS★
-Miter Saw: amzn.to/3gqIlQ8
-Jointer: amzn.to/3yc3gfZ
-Planer: amzn.to/3mn6BGF
-Router: amzn.to/3grD22S
-Sander: amzn.to/3DdvD0Y
-Cordless drill: amzn.to/3D9ZiIm
-Brad nailer: amzn.to/3gsRkjH
-Mini Compressor: amzn.to/3mvrmQr
-Bladerunner: amzn.to/2Wl0TtJ
-Jig Saw: amzn.to/3zetTBY
-Scroll Saw: amzn.to/3gq9qDc
-Multi-Tool: amzn.to/3muZuMi
★SOME OF MY FAVORITE OTHER TOOLS★
-Drill Bits: amzn.to/3B8Ckzh
-Forstner Bits: amzn.to/3kk3wEI
-Shop Vacuum: amzn.to/2Wkqnbl
-Machine Setup Blocks: amzn.to/3gq7kDh
-Counter-Sink Bit: amzn.to/37ZukUo
-Featherboard: amzn.to/3DeqHsq
-ISOtunes Hearing Protection (Save $10): bit.ly/3BHYdH7
(If you use one of the affiliate links above, we may receive a small commission)
I use "super refined" MDF by Plum Creek for painted doors. The edges just need one extra coat of primer and sanding and you're ready for finish color. It's also more dense than normal MDF
I find 90% of your advice to be very useful, but please read the comments about using drywall mud. *NOT* the best suggestion.
@@KeithOlson LOL, should I ignore all the comments in favor of using, then?.. Look, I don't need comments on TH-cam to tell me what works for me and countless other people. I've done it, they've done it, this isn't something new, It works. I am happy that some people are offering other perspectives, and everyone is free to do it however they prefer. But don't tell me something doesn't work when it has worked just fine for decades.
@@StumpyNubs I'm not saying that it doesn't work, just that it isn't the best option to suggest. Here is a comment that I grabbed to make my point:
"The drywall compound thing is from the 1980’s. Many cabinet shops have been using mdf for raised panels since the 1990’s. We use one of two products. BIN white shellac primer sealer or a catalysed solvent based primer. You sand to 240 grit apply two coats of sealer to the cut area one minute apart. You can use a brush. The BIN will soak in like water then harden. You then sand with 240 and prime the whole panel with your normal waterborne/solvent primer. No drywall compound or bondo."
(What sealed it for me was it being used in cabinet shops for production work.)
Here's another explaining *why* drywall mud isn't ideal:
"Drywall compound is not ideal and will cause finish coatings to flash. White shellac seals much better and is alcohol based without the water of drywall mud swelling the fibers. Dries really fast. Sands better. Don’t use drywall mud on cabinets."
Does that help?
@@KeithOlson "What sealed it for me was it being used in cabinet shops for production work..." -There are all sorts of tools and techniques used in commercial shops that aren't as common in small woodworking shops. To imply that something is not good advice because it may not be used in commercial shops is tantamount to saying I shouldn't make a video about hand cutting dovetails because cabinet shops abandoned that practice a century ago. So what if "cabinet shops" do it a different way "for commercial work." Not everything has to be done the same way. The way I highlighted in this video works, and it uses products that most people are familiar with. I never said it was the ONLY way.
Possibly the most clear and articulate presenter on TH-cam
This video should really be called “MDF 101”. Great comprehensive info
"MDF" 101 FOR DUMMIES.
My tip for screwing any kind of fibreboard, chipboard, or strand board is to pour low viscosity superglue (CA) into your pilot hole, making sure to get some all the way around it. It'll soak right into the fibres fast and cure up fast, so put the screw in immediately. This will bind the fibres that the threads cut into & make things far less likely to strip out. Of course you won't ever be able to remove the screw again, but if you're wanting to do that then you should really be using a bolt & an insert instead of a wood screw in the first place, otherwise it will strip out after a couple of times.
Great tip
Interesting tip. Have you done any testing to see if this increases the strength of the connection point at all?
@@stephenrobinson8250 If you mean does it prevent things from tearing apart entirely if too much lateral pressure is added, then not really. All it does is strengthen the fibres around the screw itself & clump them together, so it'll still delaminate or tear apart if it's used to really take any weight, & the difference between a screw & a screw with a load of core stuck to it is negligible. Perhaps it'd make more of a difference with really thick boards where things would need to push through more material before pulling apart.
@@nightcatarts And most folks don't realize that super glue is not, nor ever was, permanent. It breaks down over time. So if you want to add some sort of glue binder... wood glue would last longer and be a superior bond. Just dries slower.
No glue is realistically going to stop the screw from stripping out from overtightening, as when doing it like this the glue is not set yet so it not bonding the fibres together yet. You could theoretically pour glue into the hole, remove the excess with a q-tip, let it set, rebore the hole to the correct size, and then run the screw into the stabilised hole. I did try this as an experiment once using shellac (I used this as dries quickly but doesn't set a q-tip on fire like superglue does) and it works, it is just such a pain in the arse to the point of being useless.
The drywall compound thing is from the 1980’s. Many cabinet shops have been using mdf for raised panels since the 1990’s. We use one of two products. BIN white shellac primer sealer or a catalysed solvent based primer. You sand to 240 grit apply two coats of sealer to the cut area one minute apart. You can use a brush. The BIN will soak in like water then harden. You then sand with 240 and prime the whole panel with your normal waterborne/solvent primer. No drywall compound or bondo.
Bondo works great on MDF scratches and such.
Good tips. Hey Adam, I just made a built in seating area for a kitchen out of paint grade plywood.... what kind of hole filler material would you suggest for the nail holes, also there are a couple places where i need to use a material to finish off plywood edge grain preparatory to priming... I had this stuff called timbermate, but i just ran out... anything from like home depot you could suggest?
As a painter with 10 years experience after completing a classroom apprenticeship, I can verify that BIN or other pigmented shellac is the way to go. When the video prescribed drywall mud, I cringed because that is the last thing I would want to use for this application. Bondo is an excellent product for other applications where you need to build up damage to wood as you would the body of a car. When applied properly, you can nail and screw into it and I used it on my father's house for exterior wood trim and it never failed (the last time I looked at it was after 25 years of the application). The major difficulty with Bondo is that it is often harder than the soft woods you may use it on, and it is very difficult to sand down. For that reason, apply shallow layers waiting enough time for it to get hard, but not letting it cure (I think about 20 minutes is about right); also use a rasp or sharp blade while it is firm but soft to take off bulky waste.
I don't know of a single use that I would recommend for drywall mud other than for use on drywall.
@@mlauntube Try adjusting your hardener ratio and you may have more user friendly results with bondo
@@unclesunbro1577 I'm familiar with Bondo when it is not mixed with a proper ratio. My comments are all in the context of properly mixed Bondo. My comments were in favor of Bondo and I don't think you will find a friendlier result than patching that has lasted for over 25 years.
I think you’re probably the best woodworker on TH-cam. Your videos are always packed full of information, brilliantly explained. Thank you.
MDF doesn't just come in a single type. The stuff you get at the large box stores tends to be rather fluffy in the middle and doesn't rout or mill very nicely. It's also much harder to get a mirror finish on it. If you have access to a lumberyard that sells the nicer varieties (things like Glacier Green, Ranger Board, Medite, Arauco double refined, etc) you'll get a better result in my experience.
A lot of the big box stuff is not MDF. Particle board, OSB are not MDF. They are good for some projects but real MDF is a different beast.
@@johnburd3180 All the sheet goods at my local HD & Lowes are clearly labeled. Only MDF is claimed to be MDF. Particle board, MDF, OSB and sheetrock have one thing in common: Get them wet and you will be sorry.
Regular mdf is very porous. The double refined mdf is designed for routing. They started making it for things like routed doors. We use it primarily for raised panels. Once sealed, sanded and painted there is no visible difference between the core and surface.
@@incognitotorpedo42 Water and moisture resistant MDF is more costly but is available and we use them for kitchens. baths, basements or anywhere where moisture is an issue.
Back in the 90’s the waterproof MDF was branded “Medex” and was favored for outdoor routed signs. It is very stable and unaffected by water. It cost double what the regular MDF did and worth every penny.
I love that MDF is so consistent with no gaps or voids and that it’s the same on both sides, unlike all but the most expensive plywood.
BIN primer does a really nice job sealing the edges too. I’ve made raised panels from mdf and they can be a bear to paint but BIN shellac based primer works better than any other primers I’ve used. Well worth the added cost
As a former builder of speaker boxes using mdf I used a biscuit joiner to assemble those and never had problems having to use screws or pilot holes for those. The biscuits also made sure the edges were flush with each panel. My finish for those were a textured paint that easily covered up any "flaws" in the edges and the seams never showed back up later as they aged. Your mileage may vary.
I've been building boxes for a while and it's about to become my main source of income because I make more doing it than my regular job! I saw tests showing that MDF glued to wood actually formed a very very strong bond. I've got to where I prefer using real woods over MDF for enclosures, because it's lighter for shipping and prettier w the wood grain. I saw the research where there was such a tiny difference between the MDF and wood that it didn't matter.
@@johnnycorn7225 Because MDF is denser it will resist vibrating much better than real wood of the same thickness. Do you test your boxes for vibrations and brace accordingly ? Costs for shipping heavier objects does cut into the profits but there are always tradeoffs.
@@davidlong1786 yeah I use dowel rod and triangle bracing with my designs and test them at full power until they can't bounce a quarter around on any of the panels. So many people underestimate the losses of a weak enclosure for sure!! My last customer complained about how heavy his box was and I told him it had to be that way cuz he's running 3K to a single 12 inch a.b godfather
MDF is a great application for biscuits. Domino fan-boys have made biscuits out of fashion, but biscuits have their place :).
@@johnnycorn7225 3K!!!??? he must like annoying people everywhere he goes. I'm guessing he likes the show off factor more than he likes listening to music.
Making a full video on MDF is a great idea! And, of course, you're just the guy to do it....
I wish I'd seen this a year ago. Had work done in the house and the builders used mdf for door facings, skirting boards and shelves. Painted them all with undercoat and gloss. Every single edge swelled up, looked terrible and felt rough. I sanded it all and redid it with different more expensive paint and the same happened. After the 3rd attempt led to the same rough finish I decided to spread a thin layer of filler, sand and repaint. Worked a treat but my wife wouldn't believe it wasn't my fault until she decided to add another shelf herself including painting.
Another great video. Thank you. One reason why I have greatly reduced my use of MDF is that I grew tired of dealing with its weight. Also, your comments regarding respiratory protection are spot on. The best thing that one can wear while working with it is a PAPR.
A trick I learned from a luthier is to use Minwax Wood Hardener. This is a thin resin that soaks in and "hardens" the MDF when dry. This is especially useful when using MDF as router templates. Also, whenever I pre-drill MDF for screws or T-nuts, I soak the holes in this stuff. It really does work a treat. (Don't get it on the surface if you can help it... it can be a bit sticky.)
Let's see, toxic dust, very little strength, won't hold screws well, won't glue well, won't tolerate moisture. The only saving graces are it is stable with humidity changes, and is flat (when supported). I think I'll just pay the extra and get plywood.
As someone who lives in the South, don't use MDF. I have cabinets made commercially made kitchen cabinets with that stuff and the high humidity turned them into junk. Once you're burned by MDF, you really don't want to revisit the stuff ever again.
AS ALWAYS, Your tutorials are professional, competent, and complete with all the essential details (often overlooked by others) that help me fully understand the topic and all the related subject matter in a way that I can put it to use immediately. Thank you for all you do....
We used a lot of MDF while building department stores. My tip is to use automotive body filler , it sets up quickly, is easy to sand, and takes a smooth paint job just like the factory surface.
Like Bondo?
Body filler is fantastic for repair work on MDF. For sealing the edges, try BIN primer and you won't go back! It's ready to sand just as fast, sands easier, smells less and best selling point, it doesn't need to be mixed in small batches, then applied before it begins to set. Denatured alcohol reactivates hardened brushes/ rollers..
@@jayty1997 I would use BIN for spraying since it comes in convenient spray bombs, but mixing your own shellac really lets you have mnore control over viscosity. Also easier to clean up shellac without pigment.
@mytuberforyou But this discussion is about priming MDF for paint. I've been mixing my own shellac for over 20 years, but will continue to use BIN with a roller to fill and seal edges and details in MDF. The components in BIN do not gum up like a pure shellac will under the heat of a sander. The roller feeds the BIN into the poors in the MDF far better than spraying will.
@@DrMackSplackem I work in a door and window plant. We use bondo all the time for quick repairs in the paint prep shop. But bondo is useless on certain materials. It will dry too quickly or too slowly when seasonal variations change air temps and humidity. It can have varying consistently which makes sanding tricky. It ages badly once the can is opened.
And it's a dumb option on real wood where you want to show grain.
I built a washer and dryer stand with the frame being pine 2x4 and 4x4, topped with 3/4 plywood but I skinned the outside with leftover MDF from another project. I bondoed the seams and painted the same color as my washer/Dryer, loved the way it turned out
Years ago, a guy in my dormitory built MDF speaker cabinets finished with Bondo and and a matte black paint. They were beautiful. What he saved on the cabinets, he spent on the drivers. Made for great sound.
I used MDF for a book case and a computer desk over 20 years ago. The book case is still in use today, but it's an absolute beast to move, weighing well over 100kg. I also used stain on it to give it an almost wood-like look and the trick was to brush the stain and lacquer mix on unevenly, and with a paintbrush that had been chopped up a little, to give a stripy and uneven look
Spax, makes a screw for MDF, it's like magic. No pilot hole is needed even on the factory edge. It is truly amazing!
I've had good results with HighPoint Confirmat screws. They're designed for mdf/particle board but they require a special bit for a pilot hole...I'll have to give the spax screws a try....thanks for the tip
I've used those SPAX ones too on a series of built-ins for my daughter. They are excellent, just don't over-drive them.
@@normanbott Never over drive any type of screw!
Was gonna recommend Spax as well but you beat me to it. I've made our kitchen cabinets & living room entertainment center carcasses out of MDF using biscuits, glue and spax screws. They've been used for over 10 years and haven't had any problems with them.
Thank you for the info. What would be recommended on the size ,length etc. .I am using 3/4 inch MDF for shelves and cubicles ? Thank you folks.
For the edges, I always use PVA glue. Slightly diluted, it will be soaked in the edges and dry medium-hard, the edge will be sealed so you can sand and paint.
This is just really cogent.
Right to the point.
Each point explained clearly.
Strengths and weaknesses of the material discussed openly, honestly, and briefly.
I haven't done woodworking in half a dozen years and it might be another half dozen before I get back to it, but it's satisfying just to get the info handed off this well.
I like using MDF for painted floating shelves. Using an oil or solvent based primer rather than water based means no swelling and resulting proudness at joints.
MDF shelving is very prone to sag because it has so little strength. OK for shelves with a few light objects on them and if you use lots of supports, but terrible for many applications. The same is true of MDF's cousin particle board.
@@johnhorner5711 I’ve built shelves 10’ long, no sag. They have support inside, mitered edges. Wasn’t really talking about single sheets.
@@organize1979 Yep! You’re basically-I’m assuming-building torsion boxes, which are quite rigid, MUCH more so than shelves made from a single thickness of MDF; those sag horribly!
I love how machinable mdf is. It accepts a routered edge nicely.
Another helpful video. The only thing I might add is that for years I've been using Confirmat screws to join pieces of MDF. After a pilot hole is drilled with a specialty pilot bit, these screws make the splitting in MDF a lot less likely. Confirmat screws are available in a couple of sizes, and Spax even makes a #6 size that I've used successfully in 1/2" MDF.
So time ago, a cabinet shop where I worked took on an outside job reducing MDF sheets into dimensional sizes using our sliding table panel saw. Hours of continuous ripping filled our shop with fine dust despite having a collector. Two blade changes and the dust collection machine completely filled several times were some of the highlights of that fiasco. I can still smell and taste the acrid dust to this day
I made a coffee table from MDF over 25 years ago that is still going strong. In that time it’s moved nine times (two of them international, one of those by sea), and survived three children who are now all teenagers. I also had a substantial table with full length multi-level hutch that was all MDF that was still going strong too after 13 years and was only scrapped because even dismantled we decided it was simply too big to bring with us overseas. It too had easily handled three domestic moves, and a few repositions, without any trouble. Maybe having worked in an MDF factory gave me an early insight into how to work with it on any project without trouble…but even durable furniture is quite possible with MDF if done right.
Do tell! How did you do it? Not smartass just really curious 🙏🏻🔥⚒️🧙🏼♂️
Yes, please!
I am desperate for some changes around my apartment and fancy nice wood is just not in the budget at this point. I am shooting for as durable as possible at the moment (given my limited budget) and I do not have a metal work shop nearby where I could just go weld stuff out of steel or aluminum. I mainly need to make shelf space. Any hints are appreciated!
@@dragonstonegemironworkscra4740 I feel like dowels are a good way to go with MDF, I'd be interested to see what DL says as well.
The basics of what you need to do were pretty much covered in this video. Basic design was a H base, with router-cut stopped dados in the end pieces. iirc, I did use dowels to attach the base to the top (again, for the reasons given in the video!), and added some discrete small brackets to make sure. The end pieces of the base (seems not right to call a complete block “legs”) were 18mm, the cross-piece and top were 12mm. I wasn’t doing it to prove a point, I just needed a table, I already had all of the materials, and I so I just made a table…and yeah, it lasted. I’m far from being any kind of genius woodworker, so I’m putting its longevity down to the quality of the materials, for sure. I’d do a better neater job of it today, unquestionably…but for my skillset and with my tools, I’d also go for MDF again without hesitation. It’s easy to work with, perfectly safe if you take reasonable precautions (do people really think they’re inhaling none of the dust from a router/saw on natural wood???), no heavier than other timber furniture, affordable but good quality, and can absolutely produce durable works if you take the time to think about the design and construction process before you start (as you should do anyway, regardless of material!).
@@DrTomatoSpaghetti yes, dowels are a great option with MDF. They get the job done. 👍
I really liked the small business plug. Quick, clean and to the point. Always great to watch your work !
I've always found that 2 coats of sanding sealer gives the best results on mdf edges, dries far quicker than the plaster or bondo option and way easier to apply.
Your videos are extremely good! its really incredible... You point out the dangers or pitfalls so well and clearly. I love it! HIGHT quality information, thanks a million!
I've always used watered down pva glue for sealing the edges of mdf when it's dry, simply sand to a glassy finish
Same here mate
I was taught by an old timer to apply sanding sealer before applying ANYTHING to MDF. It keeps it from soaking up whatever I'm applying. Smooth as glass finish every time!
Out of interest, which sealers have you used? I prefer to seal real wood with water based polyurethane due to the ease of cleanup, lack of solvents, fumes, & not being flammable, but I've not had a lot of luck using it on MDF, perhaps because it takes too long to dry out. Even a small amount tends to swell things up & takes the flatness out of the original surface. Superglue works well but is too expensive for larger areas, so.. shellac?
@@nightcatarts I've had good results with shellac as a sealer on MDF...dries fast and sands easily and can be topped with most anything....
@@KeithMoncrief Cool, thanks. It often seems to come back to shellac but I don't much like working with the stuff, & most of my MDF use has been for unfinished jig type stuff or laminated with wood. Oh well.
@@KeithMoncrief I use shellac or paste wax on MDF when making jigs and stuff for the shop. Sometimes I seal the edges with wood glue. Some jigs are over 30 years old and get a lot of use
@@nightcatarts the shellac (as pointed out by @Stephen Thomas ) is really good as a finish for jigs/fixtures and work surfaces...it hardens the surface of the mdf...makes it more durable and somewhat resistant to glue (especially when topped with paste wax)
I truly appreciate your practical approach to woodworking. This was all useful advice. Thank you.
James, I can always count on you and your channel for quality info. Thank you, again!
If you want to wear a respirator and goggles, get a full facepiece instead, it's way more comfortable. 3M makes a few full facepiece respirators, and one of the other nice things about them is that breathing in refreshes the air in front of your eyes as well, so they don't get muggy like goggles.
@@acmhfmggru It may come down to local environment too. Some places are more or less humid and hotter/colder which is going to affect how much equipment fogs up.
I don’t have a respirator (yet), but an old swimmer’s trick is to put a thin layer of Johnson’s No More Tears shampoo inside goggles. It works great for keeping them from fogging up! The brand is so if it gets in your eyes it won’t bother them.
@@b-radg916 There's anti-fog for divers but I have a sneaking suspicion that it's just dish detergent at 90x the cost.
@@chaos.corner: I think dish detergent would sting a lot more than No More Tears! 😢
@@b-radg916 Hmm. You might be right but I've never tried putting the stuff directly in my eyes...
Excellent! Most concise summary of MDF I've ever seen. Thank you!
My first work bench top was made from MDF. Worked great and held up well with everything that sat on top of it as well as built into it.
MFT tops are made from MDF. They are full of dog holes that work well for clamping.
My current assembly bench has a 3/4" MDF top. I wax it to keep glue from sticking. It's a great surface. I have had no issues with it.
Wonderful, comprehensive rundown on MDF. Thanks for the joint compound tip. I’ve gotten similar results from wood glue applied carefully.
It's been quite a while since I've dealt with MDF. Last project I did was a sealed subwoofer box with a single 10" in it. Routed the hole in a way where the front flange on the speaker was flush with the front of the box, and glued a piece of stained 1/4 ply to the front. The rest of the box was sprayed with plasti-dip. The dip adhered well and gives it a bit of grip on the trunk carpet.
Your reviews are incredible. Informative, relevant, interesting, comprehensive, and trusted. And no irrelevant irritating background music either.
Sir, thank you very much for the short and complete class you posted, great content!
Wow! In six minutes video the amount of valuable tips and information that is being compressed is more than that compressed in a MDF! That was an instant hit for subscribe for me. This is a highly recommended channel for woodworking :)
Can you count these "tips"? If so its a number of valuable tips
Burnishing the edges via higher grits or dull sand paper. Also works wonders for preventing how much mdf edges soak up. This is a technique we relied on heavy when making Veneer sandwiched mdf cabinet doors, with a routed edge profile. Its the complete opposite of when you work with maple that your intended to stain, where your opening the pores in the sanding process.
Thank you for another great video and covering tips and tricks along with safety considerations when working with MDF.
For MDF edges, I’ve been using an Abatron product-called Liquid Wood-which is a water-thin, 2-part epoxy created to absorb into rotted (“punky”) wood to stabilize and densitfy it. It creates a very solid, dent-averse edge that is waterproof and really tough. Abatron is a great company, too, focused on home restoration products.
All awesome tips about the dust, thanks for including that. I also tape a MERV 13 filter to the back of a box fan and have that running as an extra cleanup tool for the dust while I'm working (and a bit after).
I do the same thing.
I want to build a filter fan for drywall dust, do you think MERV 13 would be effective?
Felt like I was being tutored by the Obi-Wan of woodwork. I love it. Thank you.
Excellent points to remember. Thank you for sharing. Have a great day and stay safe. 🙂🙂
74 year Grandmother here enjoying your informative
video. Thank you.
Thanks for watching!
Very, very informative. I admire your knowledge of this material and your advice on many aspects of its safety when dealing with particulates in the air, preparation, its effect on tool sharpness and limitations for use. Thanks for sharing. A very efficient and productive use of 6 minutes on TH-cam!
MDF looks great when painted and it holds the paint very very well.
Wonderful video, thank you for sharing. Everyone stay warm, safe, happy and healthy. From Henrico County Virginia
MDF makes great ceiling trim/crown molding, where its dry, stationary, non-load bearing and indistinguishable from real wood.
have to disagree on using it for moldings. Edges are never as crisp as wood and long lengths are floppy and can snap on you. Its weight also makes it harder to deal with and nail holes can mushroom on you too.
@@MrSpzwd Thanks, but I must disagree with your disagreement. The pros outweight the cons.
I had to fabricate a new base for a pool table I inherited. I chose MDF for most of it, and it has held up nicely. I did a lot of routing edges and laminating pieces for thicker sections. It was mostly glued together, except for screws in a few areas. It came out nice, and has been moved once. It went back together well after the move.
Thank you for all of the tips. I'll do a better job next time.
If you're looking for that smooth surface of MDF for painting, another good alternative is MDO (medium density overlay) or HDO (high density overlay). This is exterior grade fir plywood with one or both outer surfaces coated with a thin layer of MDF or HDF, so it has all the advantages of working with plywood but with that very smooth surface. It's expensive, over $100 a sheet; I buy factory seconds for $15 a sheet that usually have one bad edge but the rest is good.
Thanks Mike. Where do you find the factory seconds from?
My local lumber provider also has a plywood they call J-Core. The center is a traditional multi-layer plywood with the outer faces being a thin MDF layer and it is on the MDF layer where the hardwood veneer is. The advantages are a dead flat sheet because of the MDF, it acts like more expensive void free plywood, and with the traditional plywood center it can hold screws really well.
I have used mdo and it can be a great alternative...was first introduced to it when working at a sign company (they used to use it a lot before pvc sheets became so available) one caution though...sometimes we would have to reject a sheet or two because the wood grain had telegraphed through the paper finish. It's a problem that's hard to fix and, if you don't look carefully, it can be easy to miss until finish is applied.
I build a lot of MDF assemblies for the display industry. Don't screw MDF- narrow crown staples and glue are as strong as any other method. I use 2P-10 on it or slightly thinned down aliphatic resin glue (so it penetrates the MDf) and narrow crown staples. Then spray it with two coats of shellac which seal the surface as well as the "end grain" so that it doesn't suck up tons of paint- you can use a foam roller or brush for the shellac or the harbor freight $14 HPLV gun on even a pancake compressor works great. I never sand to 220 grit, (usually just pass a 120 block over it) and get up to a piano finish on it with precatalyzed lacquer. If you put drywall compoiund on it and sand to 220, and then spray waterborne on it, the fibers will just lift out and swell the edge anyway, don't waste the time, use shellac instead. If you need to use an alcohol based finish like PVA over the shellac, spray a barrier coat of automotive primer. But I am usually spraying waterborne over the shellac.HD sells a 3lb cut dewaxed shellac as a sanding sealer by the gallon- great stuff, dries in 10m.
You've opened my eyes to MDF! Thanks.
MDF is by far the best material for building Arcade cabinets. It is fairly inexpensive, great to paint if you prep it correctly and is very stable. Great video.
BIN shellac based primer also fills in the edges or any cut surfaces well. When I use my Shapeoko CNC router on MDF to carve detailed pieces, I prime with the BIN before painting unless a weathered look is desired. Works great.
Thanks for sharing those tips and the make!
I use 1/4" and 1/2" MDF to make router templates, and I've found that soaking the edge all the way around with water-thin CA turns the material rock hard. I have templates that are more than 25 years old and seen a lot of use, and they are still performing as well as the day I made them.
For getting smooth surfaces on cut edges of MDF, at work we glue size all cut surfaces. 50/50 yellow glue and water, rub it on, wait 10 minutes, and sand very smooth. Every woodworker has glue around and not so many joint compound. So it's a bit more accessible and very hard to get wrong
I started to use mdf for the bottom of my boxes. It’s clean and looks good and creates a nice think sound. Thanks for the tips on working with MDF I didn’t know about
I made raised panels for cabinet doors I was making. I used 3/4” MDF. After routering the profile I painted the panels with oil based primer. Sanded and came out very smooth. Painted beautifully. Looks as nice as the maple styles and rails
MDF must be supported when using it for something that bares weight so that it does not warp. Unfortunatly when I stiffened my shelves with glued on strips of hard wood, it has a by-metalic effect. As the moisture changes throughout the year the MDF expands and contracts differnently than the hard wood strips. The shelves are streinght in the winter but bow up in the moist summer.
My best results for MDF edges is to not sand after cutting. Treat the cut edge off the saw with one to two coats of an acrylic primer undercoat (I use Layland which is made by PPG). Once dry sand lightly with 240 grit and you're done. But like others said all MDF is not created the same so get the best you have available to you for best results.
Really appreciated you touching on the safety aspect in this video, I usually wear masks when doing anything dusty but sealed goggles is a very good idea.
I've found that oil based Kilz primer does a great job of sealing mdf edges, and the whole project for that matter. Has some grit that builds up nicely and can be sanded super smooth.
Thanks for the info. Presented so clearly.
MDF is the most entertaining to use in wet locations. Anything from baseboards in a bathroom to an outdoor table. They even make ping pong tables out of MDF and when they get wet it makes winning that much more challenging.
This works on MDF and plywood as well. To treat the edges, Smear a thin layer of wood glue and let dry. lightly sand off the roughness and paint. It's quick and simple.
Great video with great comments with great tips!
Really fantastic tips, James! Thanks a bunch! 😃
Stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊
Thanks for constantly delivering such great content.
Hi Stumpy: Thanks for another very informative video. Great content, explained in simple understandable terms.
Biscuits are a great way to join MDF edges. Water resistant MDF (such as Medex) is way superior to standard and especially lite weight MDF. You still need pilot holes for edge screwing, but it doesn't split nearly as easily either.
I like using confirmat screws for MDF and particle board. Combined with a confirmat drill bit makes using the screw fast and easy.
We make quite a bit of trim from mdf (usually ultralight). Two improvements to what you describe are:
Mdf should only be primed with oil primer. Water primer raises the grain on what was a very smooth face, requiring much more sanding.
Filling the edge with drywall mud or spackle is best done after priming. It’s more steps, but the bond is superior.
I tend to use mdf for shob-built tools (router table, lathe stand, etc) on a recommendation from one of the ww magazines in the 90's... Double, triple, or quadruple thick posts for legs, panels and shelves out of single-thicknesses reinforced as necessary by cross members. I've even made a 4" thick hollow shelf filled with sand to dampen vibrations in my lathe mount... Works like a dream.
Thank you for all the valuable information You share with us!
MDF is great as a stable core for veneering over. Set thicker strips of wood at the edges as edging.
That’s exactly what I do.
I found over the winter when I didn't work in my shed for a couple of months, that uncoated/treatred MDF can go mouldy. I had a small selving unit right inside the door and had to replace all of the MDF surfaces, whereas the pine frame (also untreated) didn't have anything on it.
I've got a piece that looks like greeny grey shag pile carpet!
I've also lost a few shelves (drop-in ones from those keyhole units) go mouldy, but trying to solve the damp in a shed was more effort than it was worth, so eventually I just scraped down the MDF once it had fully dried out & hit it with a couple of layers of spray varnish all over. Not pretty but it seemed to stop the rot & they're still structurally as good as they ever were.
I think it happens because of the absorbency & high surface area; makes it easy for spores to stick and get bedded in.
#3! Enjoyed it! All by yourself, great job!
Since the bed of our CNC at work is MDF, we run a shop air filter (hepa with shop-made pre-filter) which can be linked to other units and controlled with one remote. They hang up on the ceiling and really help get what gets past the dust collector.
Sage and practical as always.
I like your opening statement with the mention of mahogany and rosewood. I grow both here on my farm. I do sell it from time to time as I cut a tree but the shipping from here in Hawaii is expensive. The mahogany is "Honduras " or Sweitinia Macrophylla and the rosewood is " Granadillo" or Dalbergia Turcerensis, both great woods to work with.
Thanks for the good information James. Stay safe . Fred.
Very professional as always. I personally "hate" MDF, I think I prefer the chipboard or OSB boards. MDF feels like a book with loosely glued pages, when It's about working with it.
And it's way too expensive for what it is, imo
Great info Stumpy. Thx.
I learned a few new things from your video. Thank you.
I used 1/2" MDF 43/8" strips with outside corner bead moulding applied to create the window/ door trim when I remodeled my home (doors have plint blocks at floor)
great vid Stumpy!
Interesting about using drywall compound.. I was taught to use oil based paint as a way around the "sponginess" of both MDF and particle board. Agree that it is a material best used for non-moved objects.. but I don't think i heard you mention this.. but MDF tends to have better vertical as opposed to horizontal strength.. Building shelves.. it's very smart to put at least a 1x2 under the front edge of a shelf that has a span longer than 24".. and will be supporting lots of heavy books, for instance. Glad to see someone talk sense about all the issues, though. Great Video!
Bondo (polyester putty) is a great companion to MDF. Watched a guy knock a complex octagon cabinet off the assembly table and bust a corner. He filled it in with Bondo, sanded it smooth, and finished assembly. Once it was painted you couldn't tell the difference.
Found your channel this evening - really love your content and your presentation style.
Clear and precise information. Great video!
This video deserves an A++.
I'm prepared to buy a cold beer for Stumpy Nubs.
Excellent info, thanks.
You can temporarily clamp a strip off material on each side of the mdf edge that is receiving the screw. Then it will not split. For SUPERIOR strength on a 90 degree edge, use a barrel nut and a bolt. The longer the bolt the stronger the joint. I normally use about a 1 1/4 inch bolt. You can countersink the bolt head if needed. I fill the hole with Bondo if it will be painted or veneered. Nasty MDF dust will also ruin your shop vac motor, so be sure and use a dust separator. Thanks for video.