What's Next for the Vampire Counts? - Vampire Bloodlines - Total War Warhammer 3
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 11 ก.ค. 2024
- What's Next for the Vampire Counts in Total War Warhammer 3 ? Let's discuss Vampire Bloodlines, Campaign Reworks, Overhauls, Legendary Lords, Missing Units, and additions that are sure to come for the Vampire Counts in Warhammer 3. Neferata of the Lahmians, Zacharias the Everliving of the Necrarchs, Ushoran the Carrion King of the Strigoi, and Walach Harkon of the Blood Dragons all seem like strong candidates.
Vampire Bloodlines DLC - Immortal Empires - Total War Warhammer 3 - เกม
Giving Vlad access to the elector counts system is a great idea, with him claiming the runefangs and titles as he slowly conquers the empire and grants them to his underlings
It’d make an interesting unique mechanic for Vlad, similar to how Mannfred piggybacks on the books of Nagash
No way should vampires be able to wield runefangs. Made by the dwarfs, they’re just a tier below Ghal Maraz. Undead shouldn’t be able to use them any more than chaos
As an addition to that, instead of getting Elector Count troops, I think they should get a unique Legendary Hero for each one; one of Vlad and Isabella's children. The Von Carsteins that otherwise would never make it into the game. Since Vlad/Isabella armies are almost always like 10 Vampire heroes and then the rest are there to support them, it'd be cool to have an army made up of a variety of heroes instead of the same exact hero.
@@jwb590 uhhh why? There is more than enough things corrupted by chaos/vampires. Runefangs are not even close to ghalmoraz in power.
@@RPGManoWar You'd make that the distinction between diplomacy and conquest right? Conquer the Empire and you get all the B-list Von Carsteins, diplomacy your way up to emperor and you get Imperial units. I think having full access to the Empire roster would be a cool reward for confederating all the elector counts.
To be honest Indy, I feel if they go the whole rebuilding the Strigos Empire and Mourkain route with Ushoran could be a lot of fun. Especially since there is so much lore about before their fall despite their appearance the Strigoi where pretty noble (for Vampires). At its height the Strigos Empire had a Warrior Vampire elite that only fed on criminals and enemies, and the mortals of their relm were treated very well. I feel you could make some pretty cool mechanics out of that, where the better you treat the mortals of your empire the better your economy and your diplomatic relations with the factions of order but the more you piss of your sister Neferata and the other vampires. The chances to have mange the hunger of your vampire elites and the well-being of your citizens with the rewards being basically good guy Strigoi playthrough could be interesting.
Yeah, plus the novel Ancient blood hinted at Ushoran and the Strigany returining at Mourkain.
Indy also just released a MP replay with an all-strigoi army and it looked fun as hell imo
Yes, this sounds like a good and unique type of VC campaign. I'm all for this.
I feel like that's what they should do For Ulrika's Campaign as a Kislev Legendary Hero. Kislev doesn't have much lore to choose from and she's the only Kislev character to get her own book (series). She'd be a natural for a hybrid Kislev/Vampire roster than can fight on order tide and in her books she preffered to fight in the front line with her loyal human followers, as a faction leader she'd be responsible for her cities/societies and would want the Vampires to treat the humans with mutual respect. You could pitch her as a social radical and have parallels to the communists of Russia as that's what kislev is based on.
One of the reason I would love a Old World Map(but slightly expanded) added. You can't really do this justice when the Border Princes and Badlands are shrunk in Immortal Empires.
I would love a vampire counts dlc that introduces LLs from the 4 bloodlines in a fashion similar to the Champions of Chaos dlc! It would be amazing to play the vampire counts again with some new content
100% agree the vampires don't look very vampire-y in-game. Watching e.g., Isabella joggling along, pumping her arms so wildly that there for sure is nothing left in her cup by the end of a short sprint never mind the full jog to the front lines, is just kind of embarrassing. And then she just stands there awkwardly overhand swinging her blade like she was one of her own skeleton minions. Imagine how awesome she would look if she gracefully darted forwards in such a way that you legit believed that she really could bring a goblet of blood with her as refreshment to the battle without spilling a drop even as she entered the melee. That would be terrifying in exactly the way that such a character should terrify you.
Agreed, most of the bloodlines should have a fast, graceful and deadly vibe to them. That's their whole shtick, that they look human but move inhumanely fast and are monstrously strong, a beast contained in humanoid form.
Preach! You literally named all the things that I think need to be changed with the Vcounts.
I really wish CA would add a moon cycle system for the game, related. Every 30 turns, the campaign map gets a green hue, as Morrslieb wanes. Undead and Chaos factions across the globe gain scary buffs, making them more aggressive (like the wild hunt event of orion) and stronger.
Night Battles should totally make a return with Vampires. Just like the chaos tainted maps, there should be maps that are perpetually cloudy/gloomy or during night time, when the corruption in the area is high.
I also really want the vampires to have vampire coves as a mechanic. Making cult-like hidden outposts under cities, and able to influence human factions and possibly vassalize them by also spending blood kisses. More uses for blood kisses would just be nice.
I also really want vampires, necromancers and ghoulish creatures to flee from battle instead of fighting to the death, all but blood dragons and Vlad wouldn't throw their lives recklessly away. As you said, they shouldn't crumble, and IMO they should flee. I've wanted this since WH1...
God I wolud love such a big influx of Vampire stuff with all those LLs to represent all the Bloodlines.
But when it comes to Cathay I would definitely want a special Jade Vampire faction that gets the new "Champions of Chaos" treatment with the base roster + some Cathay styled undead and maybe stuff like Jadeconstructs.
You have crumbling wrong. Although vampires never throw their lives away, they also don't fear death like mortals do. When a unit routes it is suffering from an inability to control it's fear. Undead don't have that fear of death, from the lowly zombie to the most powerful vampire. Sure they can choose to flee (as so can the player choose), but they never have that primal gut wrenching terror that mortals do.
@@timothymurphy7669 I feel like that's a very irrelevant distinction when it comes to gameplay terms. I do realize that vampiric units do not have that innate fear of death.
But they still shouldn't recklessly dive into combat and pointlessly die. Varghulfs should route if they get peppered with cannon shots. These are still creatures that don't want to be put permanently 6 feet under. Unless we're talking about a brutal fighter like the Blood Dragons or special characters like Konrad, Ushoran or Vlad, then I don't think that vampiric, mortal nor ghoulish beings should stay in fights and crumble.
@@HamlettheOmelette The point about them not fearing death is showcased in the game by undead and unliving units they never losing control of themselves (which is fundamentally what routing is). A vampire or higher undead could chose to retreat, but it could also choose to fight until it stopped moving. Retreat for them is always a conscious decision (one which is made by the player).
The problem with the leadership value for the undead is it isn't really a value for leadership, instead it is a value for the the dark magic binding the undead creature to its body. This is how the table top worked and this is how total war Warhammer works.
An undead creature is physically able to fight until it's body literally fall apart. The last part is what crumbling represents.
Vargulfs and Vargheists are of the category of undead where they are essentially being controlled by dark magic.
Designated LL's for the remaining bloodlines, Magic Forest climate for Kemmler considering his stint during the Winter of Woes along with letting him fly with his Cloak of Mists and Shadows.
I like Ghorst, but I don't want to have to pick him over Kemmler for the extra territory. The individual factions need some over-arcing as well as unique mechanics for them. Also, re-skinned generic Vampire lords and heroes depending on the respective faction chosen so that Neferata - when, not IF she arrives - only gets Lahmian vampires instead of access to the other bloodlines for instance. Makes no sense lore-wise for one archetype to create another.
Unit-wise there's not a whole lot missing, and unless you add Jade Vampires as a fleshed-out subfaction, a single CoC-style DLC would be enough to complete the faction for good if you settle for one LL per bloodline. Grave Guard with halberds would be one unit, so would dismounted Blood Knights that could simply be re-skinned Depth Guard. Coven Thrones, Zombie Dragons as single-entity units and Abyssal Terrors as single entities and mount options for Necromancers / Necrarch vampires. There's also Spirit Hosts as ethereal chaff, potentially Patchwork Men if you really want to stretch it aaaaaand other than that, I think that might be it for units, unless you also give Strigoi the Strigani for a mixed roster. I can't think of much else, really.
You could also add Ulrika as an FLC legendary hero in the same vein as Gotrek and Felix - who I still think should BOTH be legendary heroes instead of a lord and hero - available to the Lahmians, the Empire, Bretonnia and Kislev. Potentially powerful stat-wise and / or on the campaign map, but increasing vampiric corruption and decreasing diplomatic relations with other Empire factions for example.
6th Edition 2005 White Dwarf 309-310-311 Return of the Lichemaster variant army list of Kemmler:
Simulacra, Glooms, Embalmed Ones, Shadow Druids, Tomb Stalkers, Barrow Kings, Barrow Guardians etc.
@@Azoth86730 I want this for kemmler 👍🏼 and krell as a proper legendary hero.
Unless they radically change the Bloodlines mechanic I think all factions should have access to all the different Bloodline lords. There's not really any reason why Neferata would only recruit Lahmians to her cause. Give them a bonus to their bloodline, of course, maybe give them each the first blood kiss progression in their respective bloodline, but there's no reason to artificially limit what types of lords you have access to.
Also, I just can't imagine a good way to make Kemmler fly. I just think it would look way too goofy.
I think what woudl be an AWESOME mechanic for Vlad/Isabella is that, whenever they take an Elector Count city, they can awaken one of their lost children as a unique Legendary Hero. Since Vlad/Isabella armies are almost always Vampire doomstacks with supporting units, it'd be really awesome to have an army made of up (reskinned) unique heroes that represent all their children that otherwise wouldn't make it AND pushes them to take over the Empire as their first objective. By the time they have the whole Empire, the Von Carstein family is reunited once more.
@@kapitankapital6580 I think the idea would be to replace the generic lords and heroes with ones from whichever bloodline you pick. So Neferata would still be able to get lords from other bloodlines through awakenings, but all her generic lords and heroes would be Lahmian.
The access to the elector counts for Vlad would be awesome, also if they could implement it a bit like the chaos fortress mechanic, so when you get the elector count head base (province capital) the empire faction of that province become a sort of vassal. Maybe not an aggressive vassal tho, but more a support vassal like Nakai. Gives a real feeling of actually taking over the empire, and not just "kill" it all and raise it!
They really need another bonus vs large unit other than skellies with spears.
Grave guard with halberds would be an great solution.
Yeah, I've been suggesting this for a while. I know they didn't have them on the TT but it just feels like such a major hole in their roster that shouldn't be there.
This. Been asking for Grave Guards w/ halberds since WH1.
I know its not great early game or cost effective but terrorgeists are anti-large
Just make Vampire infantry. The Vamprie counts don't have many Vampires units. T 3 could be von cartsien foot soildiers with halberds. T 4 and 5 you get Blood dragon Halberds and great weapons.
Another unit? you mean like terrorgeist or blood knights or The Direpack or making use of the outpost system?
Appreciate the call out for a more severe distinction between re-animated and semi-alive Vampire units. GW applied crumbling to the entire army book in 8th(?) to streamline things, but in Total War we allready got living elements in our undead armies anyway, be it Sylvanian Statetroops, Sartosa Freecompany or mercenary elements. I'd really hope to see Ghouls and Necromancers above all others run instead of disintegrate.
I think vampires could have a ‘blood thirst’ mechanic either similar to Khorne’s momentum or the Skaven food, where if they don’t take enough blood they suffer penalties.
This would provide a benefit for blood dragons curing their bloodlust as well.
Could also be provide unique benefits by faction. Maybe highly sated Von Carsteins can get more living units, blood dragons get melee boosts, lahmains get diplomatic benefits, necrarchs get better magic/fleshcrafting etc
That sounds interesting. The bloodline never felt like a special faction mechanic to me. More like a fixed tech tree. They should combine tech and bloodline and make a better faction mechanic.
I would love to get some raise daed stuff like rakarth, that you get undead carnosaurs, zombie mammoths and giants and stuff... That would be a lot of fun I think 😅
Very excited for flesh crafting of the necrarchs and I would love to get kemmlers unique Army list with simulacras...
feel like that would make more sense for the blood dragon faction since it would encourage combat to constantly to keep up booths and growth
@@leonfriedemann9151 that's exactly what I was thinking about bloodlines. I'd split it into making bloodline lords just recruitable from the lord pools, but cost extra blood kisses to unlock, and I'd move the bloodline stuff into the tech tree, but lock it behind having at least one LL or Bloodline lord of the appropriate bloodline recruited, thus giving named vampires a jumpstart on their bloodlines while kemmler and ghorst would have to get blood kisses, then recruit a lord to do the same. In it's place, I'd give Vampires Dark Rituals like the Vampire Coast, and let each LL have their own unique one.
I want the Red Duke "El Sif" to be playable more than anything. His lore and story are super interesting and being in bretonia is alot of fun. His faction and model are already in the game. Fix his mechanics and update his roster. Done. Seems like an easy fix to me.
I have said for a while that the empire needs a full rework with every elector count becoming a named lord. It would be awesome to see Vlad (and the Von Carsten bloodline) included in THAT rework with the rest of the Vampire Bloodlines getting their due in the new one. However, we also need the Jadeblooded vampires of Cathay to have a presence.
Agree on Jade Vampires, personally I’m most interested in them. On empire I just don’t think it is worth it. The could do with a solid FLC rework next to a Middenland Vs XXX DLC but making Lords for all empire subfactions just seems like a ton of clones. Mods can probably do it good enough
Neffie should be added before the Jade blooded vampires
She is WAY more important
@@mk_gamíng0609 Neferata is conspicuous by her absence in Mortal Empires, so she needs to be near top of the list for DLC lords in Immortal Empires. She's mentioned in the lore for multiple Legendary Lords and her AI faction is right there... with a generic male vampire lord for the portrait. I mean, they have female vampire portraits in the game, so it was kind of irritating that even that was too much effort.
Seems like Empire and Vamp Counts would all benefit greatly from a similar style dlc as the WoC. The marking of units would probably play nicely as a dedication to a particular cult within the empire, like Ulric and such, to give some sub faction flavor.
I agree with most of what you said Indy, also one key factor that Vlad doesnt have that he had on the tabletop, Vlad is actually capable of flying via his cloak of souls, just adding the capability for Vlad to fly would be a massive upgrade.
I really want Konrad, but as a LH, an absolute melee beast, I completely agree though no need for more LL from the Von Carsteins
That is what I was thinking as well.
Konrad had my absolute favourite vampire model on the tabletop, I'd be pretty disappointed if he doesn't make it in one way or the other
I don't understand what's interesting about Konrad. He's completely hollow as a character. "He's evil and brutal because.... HE JUST IS, OKAY?!"
I have 2500+ pts of painted FaBa VCs btw.
@@napukapu His main schtick on the tabletop was being a terrible caster who needed necromancer underlings to control his army. So some room for something interesting there on TT, but not so much in Total War. And yeah, character-wise he's kinda terrible.
With everything that they've implemented in this chaos update it makes me really look forward to what they can do with overhaul mods like what the SFO team has done. CA has laid the groundwork for them so now these modders can really make some awesome game-changing lore friendly changes
Removing crumble from units that aren't technically undead makes sense thematically. Would that also imply making them unaffected by the healing from invocation? Would they also be breakable? I like the idea but would definitely want it to come with some new (what? I don't know, that's for some creative types to figure out) mechanics to offset it.
They are not undead, so no they would not be healed by Nehek, and are not unbreakable.
For the remaining like Kemmler, SFO did a good job in WH2 of introducing new faction mechanics, kemmler would need to go around to specific location/settlement for unique buff and artifact just like his lore.
To be fair. I'd still want Vlad to have access to the empire Elector Count system. So he can instill his own court of the night. Not having that is a big miss to the character.
I cant wait for vampire counts update. They also need some new anti large unit in the roster.
- An iteresting idea could be to have Ushoran still being mad, wandering around like Nakai the wanderer does, but with mosly ghouls (whom should be living, not undead as mentioned). Thks would open up for placing him anywhere really. Placing him near ancient mourkhain (the new lustria bowl) wouldn't really make sense. Make it a destination for him to reach, on a path to reclaim his sanity etc.
- Neferata could have a starting position in or near cathay (she hid out there for a lomng time in the lore after all). Recliming the silver pinnackle from Al'muntasir (her disobedient offspring) could be interestiing, as well as restoring Lahmia. Agents or even subverting enemy agent could be a thing. Perhaps even some beastmen-type sneakyness for moving her armies.
- There isn't really room to put Walach's blood dragons near Nuln and I'm not currently sure where I'd place them tbh. A cool alternative could be to make Walach as a Legendary hero type though, unlocked at Nuln by the other VC factions.
- I would consider putting Zacharias in Lustria somewhere, since that now seems to be one of the most flexible map-positions to make use of. Near Rakharth somewhere. Not to crowded and it would make as much sense as most other places considering the cjrrent positions of everyone else.
An interesting idea could be to make fell-bats attach to the army at semi-random numbers depending on vamporic corruption in the province, allowing for 20+ unjts in total. Make it random so you don't know until you have commited to the battle though. It would help build up under the undead horde narrative and likely also make that unit see far more play.
Konrad could be a cool FLC melee monster LH; pretty much, no magic, no army buffs... just a melee monster, unbreakable, berserk, frenzy, hunger, the khorne thing where he gets stronger the more kills he gets, etc., with debuffs to growth and public order for the enemy AND yourself... because he pretty much feeds on anything with a semblance of a pulse and mauls everyone that slightly looks sideways at him.
EDIT: also, the part with w'soran, melkior and zaccharias could be a cool mechanic or skill line, where you exclussively decide which will wins in the end and get speciffic buffs on your decision.
I'd say he would work better as legendary hero that can be assigned an elector count
Konrad would still be a good addition. Yes the other Bloodlines need the most work, but I wouldn’t want Vlad and Mannfred to be left in the dust
I’d also like for Krell to become a legendary hero instead of a summon
Krell is thematic as he is and lets you cheat the 20 stack. IMO he's fine as is.
@@fahholliday5374 sure you can get an extra unit for it but you also can’t equip any items for Krell and as Kemmler you have to choose between leveling Krell or leveling your own abilities. I’d gladly sacrifice a Grave Guard for a better Krell
I would also prefer Krell as a designated character that can act independent of Kemmler, if need be. With equippable items like his infamous Black Axe of Krell.
that's actually a downgrade, because he's a 21st unit to the army. as a legendary hero he's more flexible, but also costs an additional unit space.
@@johnj.spurgin7037 as a summon he costs your levels on Kemmler to upgrade. Additionally, you can’t add items and upgrade him in that way. I’d rather sacrifice a unit of grave guard than have an itemless Krell
Excellent video. I am in absolute agreement with you about routing vamps and living units and I hope CA listens to your recommendations because they are all good.
Generally, I'd really like to see Neferata, Zacharias, Wallach, and Vorag as the lords for the pack, with a little something for Vlad as FLC. I'd like all the progenitor vampires to be part of the RoC map narrative, and be kind of like Imrik's Dragons. Neferata should be very focused on uniting the four other Progentiors, using a hybrid of Influence and Changing of the Ways to manipulate the map while turning lords and heroes into new Vampires all while trying to track down the Progenitors. Zacharias should have a Fleshcrafter's Lab which is basically a port of Throt's mechanics. Wallach should be hunting Dragons, so either in Cathay or tearing a chunk out of Imrik while also looking for Abhorash. For Vorag, I'd like to see him try to build a new Morkaine, with the Strigany as part of his campaign roster.
No she should not be about uniting the other Bloodline heads.
She WOULD never work with any Strigoi
She cant even use there units
This is everything I want out of a vampire dlc, literally everything. Thank you for covering it so well, and I hope CA sees this.
Jade Vampires in Cathay might not be a popular choice but I'd still want to see that. There's a lot of room for new unit ideas by tapping that chinese undead aesthetic. Given that TW:Warhammer 3 is the capstone of the trilogy, there will likely be plenty of space to add all of these things in the years to come.
I’m curious about that though. I mean even assuming 5 years of content it’s not that many DLC (like 12 or so) so I’m not sure you could get Jade Vamps and a CoC VC full rework. Unless Jade Vamps go to VCoast, which I’m not sure how I feel about. Personally I’d make Ushoran and FLC and do it all in one
Nice to see you are responding to burn-out and taking some time off. Good for you man. Have a great vacation ! :D
Would love to see a ton of stuff, a lot you covered here.
Elite ghosts, spirit host, Nagash stuff, maybe some more ghoul stuff, neferata, jade blooded vampires proper bloodline lords, ect.
Undead are my favorite. Looking forward to their big update, whenever it might be
currently going through a vampire counts campaign and they definitely need the update and what you described sounds perfect. But there's also updating all of the mechanics for the races, like empire, dwarves, norsca, bretonnia, tomb kings and vampire coast need updates too
I hear you. It's very apparent how much love the Counts need mechanics-wise. I have a WoC IE campaign and a Tzeentch campaign and the difference in effort, mechanics, and flavor between those factions and the vampires really hurts :(. Don't think I'll touch VC until such a big update happens.
@@storytsunami I touched them again and again and the pain goes on... But can't stop, just my favorite faction.
I dont really think the Tomb kings and Vampire Coast are in need of any serious updates. Maybe small updates but definitely not a major overhaul like the others you have listed need.
@@john_frankford7450 I can totally see a DLC for Tomb Kings that adds Apophis as a LL for the tomb kings in the far north. It'd be interesting, and he could be involved in the ursun's roar campaign. I'm less sure about Vampire Coast, but hey maybe they can get undead crane gunners from a cathayan vampire coast DLC?
EDIT: In retrospective, I can actually see a lot of potential for Vampire Coast, specifically in that while more units might be a creative leap, there IS something untapped.
Ocean biome settlements.
Hear me out. The Galleon's Graveyard is an awesome settlement, but it's the only one of it's kind. Why? there is a lot of possible locations for bottom-dwelling undead vampire pirates to hang out, and it would be an interesting twist to give them a collection of ocean biome settlements to both fill out the ocean and put non-LL vampire coast lords in. They can range from sunken black arks turned into undersea settlements, to collections of shipwrecks on reefs, to isolated single-settlement islands in the ass end of nowhere. It's fine, vampire pirates don't need to empire build, they need places to camp and respawn from.
Taking it a step further though, you can expand on the "undead deep sea fauna" and fishmen, perhaps on manann/mathlaan, and more.
Imagine undead ghost calvary, only they're riding ghost sharks that swim halfway through the land.
I definitely want big 4 LL DLC with rework of animations, VFX and SFX, new units and all that. Same for the The Empire next
Yeeeees
Norsca, VCounts and possibly Dwarfs are the ones that need the most help. Empire should be after
@@Razielts1 I mean the Empire isn’t in a super great position at the moment, Imperial Authority is currently busted because of all the new power factions poised to wipe out half the elector counts in the first couple of turns which will Tank your authority.
@@InquisitorThomas I am sure you can fight them off rather effectively. Festus and Vlad should be the only real problems at the start.
People love empire but all the factions just seem the same to me. Give empire middenland as part of a Lord pack imo. Same for dwarfs. Def for VC.
They need more units. The mods "Vampire Counts Infernal Unit Pack", "Vampire Counts Unit Pack", "Vampire Count Mount" and the "Vampire Counts Roster Expansion" available on Steam Workshop pretty much adds everything that I felt it was missing to the Vampire Counts faction. It was as if the creators of this mods have read my mind and then "boom, were you looking for this?" Great props to them.
I think the vampires need a boost or change in their army roster, they used to have the advantage of having most/being the only faction with flying units and such a big amount of monsters, but these days almost every faction has flying units and even monsters, so either they must create a new and strong frontline guard, something called maybe the eternal grave wardens or something like that, a strong armour piercing and anti infantry unit with an anti large variation as well, with lots of armor, damage, melee defense and melee attack that can hold up against the late game enemy melee units can. (because lets face it, grave guards and skeletons cannot win on their own, they can only stall the enemy while waiting for you to either boost them or use offensive magic to wipe out the enemy they are currently hitting) or they need to add more monsters and maybe do some flying cavalry like graveguards flying on vargheist or hellsteeds, add a necro dragon as well and maybe even something like a zombie horror that is basically a giant zombie (like a normal giant unit more or less) with lots of health, hard hitting armour piercing damage and such. Maybe also some new dire wolves, like blood wolves that are less in numbers than direwolves but has AP and maybe anti large or anti infrantry and more armor.
In the Vampire Counts 8th edition army book, all units labeled Undead are considered unbreakable and unstable. Ghouls and Blood Knights fall under this rule so if they lost combat, they'd take additional wounds. This is one of the reasons why Blood Knights were risky to take because you needed to win combat with them, or you'd lose entire models due to the Unstable rule. Vampiric Units didn't crumble as a result of the General being slain.
Love that someone gets Neferata ;) Depending on how you view the novels - Ushoran relished his flesh changing and monsterous form and Vorag was also a ally of Neferata. Also Naaim as LH for Neferata would be awesome
As a long-time player on the tabletop, I remember how many of those battles were fought and I think that CA could do some definite tweaking.
1) Many of the Undead units could (and should) benefit from some sort of Blood Lust mechanic where they get stronger as they kill more victims. The characters should certainly have this (the Vampiric ones anyway) as well as some of the bat-related units like Fell Bats, Vargeists, and the Varguhlf.
2) Vanhel's Danse should be more effective, particularly on lower-tier units. It's the spell that would get my forces across the table before they got shot down.
3) There needs to be some sort of gap-filler unit between Skeletons (which are trash) and Grave Guard. The tier 1 Undead units have always been garbage and on the TT they were only good if the table was flooded with them. With a unit limit of 20 per battle, this simply isn't possible. In the early days of WH, Skeletons could be equipped with nearly every weapon and armor combo that a Human could have (except for missiles, of course). Skeletons in heavy armor and shields, or with great weapons or halberds might plug the gap between the trash and the Guard.
I've been playing IE with Vlad as an Elector Count - apart from Stirland and The Empire, all of the others are my allies and are still around thanks to my campaigns against the Orcs and Chaos :D (Thanks to Vlads ability to get +40 relations with Empire factions, offsetting aversion)
Vampire counts are my favorite faction in the game and have been since TWWH 1. If they do a bloodlines dlc like they did with champions of chaos, then that would be great. I do think they need to give some attention to TWWH 1 races as they're falling behind. Heck, some of them fell behind in the second game. The warriors of chaos rework was really needed and Norsca still needs help even after being able to act like a normal faction.
My idea:
Add a core mechanic to VCounts called horror - Increase a bar based on either when units retreat, or ammount of resurrected units ( resurrected would be more thematic ) decreasing the leadership of the enemy army the longer they fight the undead.
Giving them a sense of hopelessness, and having the race focus more on psychological warfare, comboing very well with leadership magic.
Spirit host, coven throne and grave guard halberds added to the whole race:
- Spirit host would debuff enemy leadership and melee attack, similar to charm from syreens, and disencourage, to make the enemy weaker.
- Coven Throne mount for vampire heroes buffing vampiric monsters only, by having an active ability called blood frenzy this would make any unit close to them, that has the hunger get a big stat boost for x seconds similar to the beastmen bloodgreed.
Just like daemon heralds and hero units, where they have the Locus buffs. ( could add in extra melee defense and ward save aura to vampiric units, making them perform better and tank more )
- Grave guard halberds for a better anti-large option.
Bloodline specific units would be:
-As mentioned, vampires on foot for Blood dragons replacing undead infantry;
-Strigany humans to add to the strigoi and maybe a bigger ghoul variant;
For Nechrarchs
- Patchwork men ( replacement to crypt horrors, that buff lower undead like zombies and skeletons to make a tankier, but less damage frontline to keep the enemy in place and destroy them with spells );
- Whicker men and Abyssal terrors, plus throt mechanic to buff undead as mentioned, and that's it.
Great video! Vampires is my favorite race to play. I am so wanting an update like this. Thanks
Man, more depth for VC? Hell effin yes. I have always hated playing Kemmler, sharing the same bloodkiss mechanic as the vamps. A full VC rework with a VC only DLC I am just all for.
This is something I've been waiting for since total warhammer 1... Great video!
You talking about Morrslieb at 3:41 was great because last night I was wiki-walking my way through warhammer fantasy lore and I remember hearing that exact pregnant hag metaphor. :)
The big question I have for the second flavour pack DLC (and I think it's very likely to happen) is how the reskins convert into new content. The Vampire Counts obviously don't need new models for all their infantry for each bloodline, so do we get new units instead? If so, how many? Units like dismounted Blood Knights for the Blood Dragons would be cool but not exactly require a huge deal of work since the models and the animations and a similar unit for stats are all in the game already, while wickermen or Strigani would take a lot more work.
Reskinned Bretonia peasant units would work for Strigany, maybe with some pirate/free company models thrown in? Patchwork men could be reskins of animated hulks or bloated corpses.
Great video. Always great to hear your perspective.
One change I would like to see to how the VC play in game is a more significant role for dark magic. maybe something like VC armies function better somehow when there are high levels of it. Its current use is only as an alternate name for currency.
I want more ghosties. I've seen some models of other ethereal units and I hope we get those units in a dlc soon
3:15 talking about the vibe of fighting certain factions totally agree and I think the map is moving that way for sure. Already we have a much more convoluted and less easily navigable map which sets up for a much more fun experience. Playing against skaven has started feeling this way. We need this for all kinds of areas though: trudging through swamps and fighting greenskins on both campaign and battle map should feel as different from vampires in crypts to dodging Predator style lizard men in the jungles
Given that Mousillon gets boosted during the Vampiretide as if it were a playable faction, I’d hazard a guess ‘ol Red is gonna be made usable in campaign. I’d also think that since there won’t be much work in putting him on the roster, given that he already exists and has assets and such, that he’d be FLC.
Personally hoping for a Necrarch pack. Love their creepy, lich-like demeanor.
I would actually like to see him in a Bretonnia update, along with shifting him to Aquitaine due to him being the Red Duke of Aquitaine. Make the theme of that DLC the Red Duke seeking power and the Bretonnian Legendary lords trying to stop him, but arguing about how to actually do it. Then for Immortal Empires they can be scattered to the winds due to Questing, while the Red Duke builds up in the middle of Bretonnia to fight Louis and the Fay Enchantress. Send one to the Chaos Wastes, one to Cathay, and then one to Naggoroth or the Badlands.
god how much i would love to see what hes talking about implemented. A midnight aristocracy that ruled over the empire would awesome. Something else which would be awesome would be obviously a bit overpowered but the ability to resurrect great creatures you slay in the battlefield as undead versions of what they were would in my opinion really set the vampire counts apart in a truly awesome way. Like the end game we all deserved from the vampire coast where you could resurrect the merwyrm and gain control over the seas. Such things should be within the realm of possibility for particularly strong vampires/necromancers. Either way great vid my dude thoroughly enjoyable and informative as always.
Looking back at this, it would be so sick to have a dlc where the vampires get their night maps with Morsleb in it along with one last beastmen dlc with Moonclaw as a legendary lord. Perfect thematic spooky dlc.
Have a good vaca bruh!
Good content as always!
I've always been super big on the Necrarch line and master necromancers for my table top army so seeing them get some really wild design choices as far as the kit bash and even the lore of beasts has been weird to me. A crypt workshop system would be awesome and would make up for their lack of melee.
I know in TW2 we got a lot of FLC to go with our DLC, and I think Nagash would make the best and biggest FLC if played like Drycha where you have to own the Vampire Coast, TW1, and the Tombkings to access it and just creates this giant vassalization/confederation monster mash system of grandeur.
I want to see vampire counts to have more to do with the actual empire itself. If Vlad got everything, I want to see something. I also want to see the Red Duke pretty badly as a playable lord (there have been some great mods for it before).
1:40 THANK GOD YOU TOLD THE KONRAD FANBOYS TO PISS OFF!!!
Great book of grudges keeps brining him up and it's like, why? A brawler focused fighter who trades melee for magic, that's your blood dragons before blood dragons were a thing. His personality? He's mad and talks to the heads of his slain enemies, that's queeks thing. His whole reason for existing was just so Manffred could beat and looks even more bad ass.
There's like 10 Vampire characters that deserve to go in before him.
Indy: "If you want more Von Carsteins, punch yourself in the nose."
Vlad: -_-
the shrieking death, banshee's a 'ranged' unit with a ranged attack though the range is short and maybe shots are limited its ammunition would regenerate as its a magically infused scream.
I think an ‘undead horde’ unit mixed of all types of basic infantry from other races would be pretty neat. Empire men, dwarfs, etc mixed in. Maybe it adds a bit of a certain type based on your location
The Blood Knights already shout out Wallach in their move order voice lines, CA gotta get my boy in.
I'd like to see skeletons and zombies from other races, there are a few models from a dogs of war regiment of lizardmen, elf, dwarf, orc and goblin skeletons called the cursed company. Maybe using the chaos warband upgrade system but instead of money you have to use a special resource that you earn from fighting battles against particular races; for example if you fight a battle against orcs you get X number of orc bodies that you can then use to upgrade skeleton, zombie and grave guard units into orc versions.
Rather than being able to recruit those units, give Necromancer Lords an army ability that raises an undead copy of a targeted living unit (no demons or undead).
The Necromancer targets a unit that's below a certain threshold of HP, to create an undead copy. The undead copy of the unit spawns on top of, and immediately attacks, it's parent unit. Starting with a low model count, the size of the undead copy unit increases as models in the parent unit die. For SEMs, the army ability must be cast when they have very low health and an undead copy is created when they die. Undead copies stay for the duration of the battle but instantly crumble if the Necromancer Lord is wounded, shattered, or retreats off the map.
Make it a three tier army ability where tier one targets a single selected enemy, tier two allows you to target a single SEM, and tier 3 is an AoE that targets four random units that meet the criteria.
Downside: No armies of undead skinks.
Upside: Battles are different for every faction, and the AI having this ability really raises the stakes when you fight VC.
Also, goes without saying and I suspect this is just a technical limitation, but ethereal units *really* need to be rethought in terms of sieges. It just does not make sense for walls to stop them. If they absolutely cannot be made to go through walls without breaking the game, maybe it'd be possible to increase their climb speed extremely high?
CA should just hire you to be their gameplay director dude. You have a perfect outlook to what we want as a player base.
Hi Indy, just to say Vamps did crumble on tabletop along with the whole army. They didn't take losses specifically from losing the general.
In the oldest rules Necromancers and Ghouls ran away instead of crumbling (vamps still crumbled) but it got fudged to keep record keeping simple.
Since the elector count system was added I'd hoped a modder would take up the task of giving it to Vlad. I like the idea of receiving corrupted versions of the runefangs and undead or vampiric versions of the state troops.
Sounds all good, here is to hoping that the VC get some more units too. Doesn't need to be stuff the had on the TT, various Ghoul-like units would be cool for example.
If you want your Neferata fix, you can always try the recently released Nagash Mod for WH2, where she's a fully fleshed-out lord that you can recruit pretty early on. Actually one of the best mods I've seen for the game. Apparently coming to WH3 at some point too.
Eyyyy, NC resident here- Have fun at the outer banks! Be sure to check out Kitty Hawk, and go to the Black Pelican if you do make it out there. Great sea food that Guy Fieri ate at
Have a great week off, Indy!
Vorag killing everyone around to bring back his main squeeze would be cool! Give her a unique trait, maybe even a model?
If it’s Ushoran id like to see him have two forms, kind recycled from Cathay. A human lord form - supporty, leadership buff. Then the absolute unit vampire - terror, melee stats etc.
All that sounds great ^^
But I would swap one thing. Personally, I don t like Walach Harkon. Abhoresh as LL could be a little more fun, and whole faction would be alligned to Brettonia and not other Vampires and would spread un-corruption. That could be fun :D
while i didn't play the tabletop until the very last editions (i played roughly from 2nd to 6th), i'm pretty sure that both vampires as well as ghouls had crumbling rules for at least a long time.
Vampire counts was my first tabletop army for warhammer back in 2005 I will be very happy if the bloodlines get the attention they deserve. The vampire counts codex was my very first one and the lore is what sealed my future as a die hard games workshop fan so I really hope they get the love they deserve.
Immortal empires has been amazing so far and already the modding community has made some incredible content. Looking forward to the future and what they do with the undead especially. Will never get enough of what CA puts out
I agree with pretty much the entirety of this video.
I said exactly the same thing that you mentioned about cairn wraiths, but about slayers.
I feel CA should have made GW units AL, and Slayers be Lords/Heros or smaller model count higher damage units.
One thing I'd like to see is limits on vampires. As lords and heros, they blow anything else out of the water so having limits makes sense. Perhaps having them recruitable by bloodkiss's alone would work.
In their place could be numerous other replacements.
I dont know if i missed it but you pretty much nail everything here. I would love to see a belakor like mechanic wherr vampire heros can grant the blood kiss to enemy human lords and turn then to vampire lords. You could receive a blood kiss point as well. Super simple but thematic as f
Main thing I want is some tier 4-5 melee vampire infantry like depth guard. Id also love for the cap on crossbow/ gun men removed since we have gunners and artillery for VC so why not any for Vampire counts. just a little annoying. Id love to vassalize factions easier like slaanesh mech, but make it enthrall the living. With undercity vampire covens to do a few different things. Like give relationship with faction above so you can get some treaties with them and corrupt them faster. maybe some tech like high elfs so when have trade with someone you have a chance of slipping a vampire coven into one of a factions cites on lets say 10-15 turn cool down.
I honestly think a Warriors of Chaos style DLC for the VCs not only would do a good job of bringing in multiple LLs with their respective bloodline updates, but something else as well: it would be a perfect way to introduce Nagash.
Would be fun if one of the existing vampire counts LL would be the final boss for the final battle of this hypothetic lordspack, in the same way Archaon is the final boss for Champions of Chaos.
It would be the occasion to make a visual rework for some of them.
Love the parallel between Mannfred and Starscream.
Have to agree we don't need Konrad. The Von Carsteins are covered nicely.
I am playing a Vlad campaign now where I am struggling to be "Good Vlad" and help the Empire, Kislev and the Dwarfs (its tricky due to the mistrust and Stirland and Zhufbar have already declared war on me even though I had done nothing to them). That's what makes it so fun playing with your own scenarios.
Like your ideas and your spot on whom should be the Lords of each faction.
I'd like to see Strigoi have buffed ghouls and Crypt horrors to emphasis that core element of their Empire amies make up.
Necrarchs definitely need a lot of work in model and make up. Not sure whether to take inspiration from Nurgle or Tzeentch in how they should play. Possibly they should be the vampires in Cathay rather than the Blood Dragons given their more intellectual pursuits (they are so much a copy of the Nosferatu bloodline of Vampire the Masquerade)
Neferata will be a much more dare I say Slaaneshi style of playthrough with vassalage her main tool of empire growth.
Blood Dragons can be very Khornate (Brujah?) in the way they play rampaging across the world like Valkia, Skarbrand or Toruks.
I absolutely support that not all units in vampire armies crumble.
Take care.
I 100% agree with everything you said! These changes would make the Vampire Counts an awesome and unique faction to play!
The only update/addition I really want for the Von Carstein:
-Increase the limit cap (incrementally; +4, +8, +12, +16........etc) for Levy Crossbowman and Handgunners for each province you capture.
-I know Von Carstein Lords have this in their skill tree, this is a QOL change and would makes this Factionwide for Vlad or Isabella.
-If you capture Nuln, you unlock Nuln Ironsides (Obviously would have to be added to Empire beforehand to make possible) and they count toward the Handgunner's Unit Cap
-Resurrect Empire Lords at the Level they died, with Skill points refunded.
Just those two things for Von Carstein, other than that I imagine a rework for the Vampire Factions will be a much larger update that will come much later in the game life cycle, if all of these Bloodlines are the focus, along with adding a handful of LLs, especially big names like Neferata, Ushoran, and Walach then it will come before the even bigger DLC that would eventually Nagash and his Undead Legions and probably some changes to the Tomb Kings that will mostly affect Arkhan.
Right now, W3 factions should be the focus of upcoming DLC. Ogres, Cathay, and Kislev need more to fill up their roster. Lizards/Skaven 6 DLCs and 3 FLL and HE/DE each got 4 DLCs and 4 FLL, we can afford to give them W3 at least 2 DLCs each. Afterwards or during Update W3 factions, give Dwarfs, Norsca and Bretonnia their much-needed updates and only when that is finished, CA can focus on stuff Vampires and Nagash and Chaos Dwarfs. Who knows they might even release the Ind and Khuresh(Or the very least their territories).
At the end of the day, everyone wants new stuff. I trust CA, the game will turn out fine at the end of 2026.
I would like the Vampire factions to only be able to recruit Vampire Lords (always of their own respective bloodline) by beating an enemy Lord or assassinating an enemy hero and by doing so giving him/her the blood kiss. (Maybe similar to Be'lakors system where he turns enemy lords into demon princes)
Otherwise they can only recruit Necromancers as lords.
That would of course strip the Von Carsteins of the ability to field vampire lords of the Strigoi bloodline for example, but I would feel more thematic.
Also I would like to see different mechanics entirely for the Necromancer legendary Lords (Kemmler and Ghorst).
May I propose an alternative? Bring in the Loyalty Mechanic Lords from the Skaven, DE, and Vampire Coast have.
if it is a pack like the champions of chaos they should likely also get a bunch of missing but boring units and a real seller. So as others had said, grave guard with halberds for anti large, some anti infantry blood knights and vampire ground units for some elite foot troops. The latter likely will just be a rebranded depth guard with sword&board taking over the dual axes one. Yet the issue is that vampire counts have all their large and impressive units already, except maybe the coven throne or doing something with the abyssal terrors.
I love these ideas. I'd like to see strigos with 2 playstyles, one the "noble" type, and the other full on bestial vampire, where they get scary buffs on maximum vampiric corruption, and they become a dangerous creeping juggernaut if you do not work to keep your lands pure. It may give the faction a strong pull to have 2 LL, which would be fantastic IMO.
Tabletop Warhammer Fantasy Battles include Skeleton Archers and Screaming Skull Catapults. ALLOWING THESE UNITS IN THE Vampire Counts armies would give us more playstyle options. As it is, we really only have one option: Rush Strategy. I would like the ability to present my enemies with more varity in the threat my armies pose, and these two units ARE in the source material.
''In the End Times'' how dare you good sir? We dont talk about that heresy.
As someone that exclusivly and activly plays vampire counts in warhammer fantasy 8th edition: ALL units in the VC army crumbles due to combat resolution. Vampires don't crumble due to the general dying, but they crumble when losing battle. So do the neceomancers and ghouls
I'd actually scratch the bloodlines entirely and turn them into part of the tech tree, while making bloodline lords the vampire equivalent of the high elves and how they can recruit superior lords by spending extra influence. Vampires can do the same, but they should spend blood kisses to do it. In exchange, you can't research the bloodline tech chains without having a bloodline lord or legendary lord of the correct line recruited.
I'd take belakor's mechanic and make it less potent, but available to all the vampires. the Lahmians might have an easier time of it because you have to spend blood kisses to potentially procc the vampirism, and it can be countered if the lord doesn't die before being disbanded, but the enemy ISN'T immediately aware that one of their lords or heroes is infected and can only find out in the same manner as the skaven undercities. At the same time though, they have to have an infected lord DIE for said lord to turn, but it doesn't wear off without first being discovered then paid off.
As a tradeoff, perhaps vampires lords could also get the loyalty system from druchhi? vampires are a backstabbing lot, though not as bad as skaven.
In exchange for changing the bloodline system into a combination of lord recruitment and restricted tech tree, the vampires can instead get Necromantic rituals analogous to those of the Vampire Coast. Each LL could get a unique one for further differentiation too.
I like the elector count idea for Vlad and Isabella (though I'd argue with Mannfred off in the south he isn't really applicable for it) but I do feel that the von carstein inclination towards beasts and monsters has been left rather unemphasized, and would definitely change them a bit to give a bit more of a buff to such units. Nothing major, but isabella at least makes you want to take bats and dire wolves, and while they're decent they don't really do much late game.
Also, the blood dragon legendary lord could totally have imrik's mechanic, only instead of recruiting dragons he outright offs them for buffs.
I think giving more blood kisses and letting them be used for more things would make the mechanic more engaging. Along with awakening bloodlines, lock some technologies behind them, and make them a resource that can be used to turn elector counts in the empire into vampiric vassals, or something. With all the vassalization reworks this could be extremely fun and cool.
you're tethering your thinking to the bloodline mechanic, which is just an awkward, unwieldy, and limited combination of lord recruitment and research. Instead, they should just make bloodline lords recruitable like legendary lords, but cost blood kisses to recruit as a secondary currency.
Instead, let vampire counts have dark rituals like the vampire coast.
I think the introduction of the stealing lord mechanic of belakor will probably be transfered to vampires. They often create a mechanic and then transfer it to another faction, easier than creating an other entire mechanic I guess. (ex : tomb kings into dwarf object creation).
Edit: Well great minds think alike I guess ahahah
I think we should also complete Krell's decoupling from Kemler as a summon and add him as legit legendary hero. In the spirit of Throt and Ghoritch.
A more bold approach would be to also add him as a Legendary Lord and make him function like Vlad and Isabella but with Kemler.
Strygos Empire faction would be cool 👹 Playing as Ushoran, with strigany and ghoul units, which the goal would be restoring their home in the Badlands
I finished the Red Duke book and I think he'd be a cool addition
Unleash the glory of the blood dragons in its entirety I pray
Champions of Chaos style DLC for Counts with units for the bloodlines like Blood Knight on foot. Vlad gets the elector counts system and can become the emperor. Strigoi able to get humans units though proving themself as the heirs of Strygos. And lords for the lordless bloodlines then the next DLC for Vampires they can do Jade Bloodlines and focus fully on that.
I hope they add Wsoran. There is already a generic lord named after him leading the Nagash faction in the southlands.
They have a bunch of cool units that could be added from old lore. Simulcura, pathwork men, Black grail knights and more
The name escapes me. But the knight of the wolf from the von Carsten trilogy would be a really neat lord. One actively working against the other vampires.
Jerek I think? It's been so long since I read it but that name sticks out in my head. Only problem is he hated vampires and the undead so I couldn't really see him leading their armies
@@ethanmartin8434 didn't stop them from adding Aranessa as a Vampire Coast lord.
Additional LL's, units and faction-specific mechanics would be great, as you outline. But I feel there's two other atmospheric and fluff changes that would really add to the Vampire Counts:
- Raise Dead should be an actual Raise Dead mechanic: VCounts should be able to raise a selection of undead units from other rosters (sort of like Rakarth); dragons, manticores, trolls, carnosaurs, you name it. I want spooky reskins, and the ability to live that macabre sense of puppeteering the bodies of foes to fight against their former allies and friends. I want to meld flesh and create horrifying terrors (like you say, Necrachs should have a distinct advantage here). No mortal race should be safe from being raised by fell magics. At the minute, it does not make sense that VCounts raise actual vampiric units from battlefields, and, er, Crypt Ghouls?
- Vampire politics needs proper representation, particularly given the centuries of competition between the different bloodlines and Neferata's perpetual meddling in the lore. I want subterfuge, backstabbing, secret pacts and intrigue. I want that feeling of imperceptible laylines of vampiric influence, manipulating mortal affairs, and the campaign map to reflect this. If Nagash appears as is likely, a further mechanic could revolve around whether to accept his yoke or reject his mastery (Mannfred style). Buffs and debuffs and rewards could all be drawn from these dynamics.
Yoo this idea is actually awesome, that would be so cool.
(This is copied from my comment on Loremaster of Sotek's video on the same subject. But they're things I consider potentially really cool.)
"Don't forget about each bloodline's vampiric abilities in the 6th edition lore!
(As seen on the Vampires page of the Warhammer wiki)
One major thing that could be done to give some variety to the different bloodlines would be to add in all their unique powers. From transformations (should that mechanic be expanded) into and the summoning of creatures like bats, wolves, ravens, rats, and other vermin, calling the night winds to serve them, turning into a mist form, a chilling frosty aura that leeches heat, a hypnotic gaze, neat ideas for blood magic, physical enhancements to strength and speed, unique spellcraft, regeneration, psychic manipulation, and more like growing wings in their humanoid form or adding the risk (or perhaps mastery) of turning into a Vargheist or Varghulf. There's so much that could be done to give each of the bloodlines unique and thematic gifts and help the vampires in the game feel like, well, vampires! lol.
Another thing that could be discussed is Mousillon and how exactly to portray it's undead and mutant population. The Lahmians also have their non-vampiric swains and the idea of possibly corrupting enemies similar to Slaanesh. There's other stuff that could be dug into as well. One of my personal favorite bits of odd lore from Storm of Magic is the Living Deadwood Staff and the concept of Arboreonecromancy. There's also Kemmler's unique Army of the Cairns and Lore of the Lichemaster...plenty worth discussing and potentially implementing."