DELTARUNE THEORY REVIEW 1.0 | Deltarune theory and discussion | Kris Knight, Chess Theory, and more!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 31 ม.ค. 2023
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There's way too many Deltarune theories I have to make videos on, so I decided to review a bunch, rapid-fire, in one video! This new series will feature a wide range of different topics, with me giving my quick thoughts on each. Is Kris the Knight? What's up with Chess Theory? Will Rouxls Kaard be a secret boss? Is Ralsei SUS? All of these and more, in the very first episode of Deltarune Theory Review!
#deltarune #deltarunechapter2 #undertale #theory - เกม
Can’t wait for En Passent to be a plot point because of Chess Theory
Naturally this has already happened. It explains why Noelle kills Berdly, the player just moved her into position, Berdly advanced incautiously, and as a result Noelle had no choice but to capture him since En passant is a forced move.
King will escape the hamster cage
Calling it now
@@MisterLambda that’s awesome
@@Benzinilinguine he will castle and be saved by the rook
Holy hell
15:15 there were 2 (connected) dark worlds in the school. The one in the closet is castle town. Then, Kris and Susie and ralsei passed the Great Door and entered the card Kingdom. That latter dark world is in the unused classroom. Hence, when we close the fountain, that room goes back to normal, but the castle town still exists. It’s a different dark world in a different room. Why do noelle and berdly stay in the library? There’s only one dark world for them to be in. There’s no where else for them to go
in simplest terms, his point is that kris and susie were awake and noelle and berdly were asleep. unless kris and susie can sleepwalk, then it's not consistent.
i dont personally believe this, that's just the point he was making
edit i mean i believe that it's inconsistent for the sake of media but i dont believe the theory itself. i think they sat down before getting into the dark world, causing them to fall asleep when the knight came out of the closet and stabbed the ground. if it was chapter 1 rules, they wouldn't have fallen asleep, they would just come back into reality like standing near one of the computers or something
@@maple... thx
So it would be as if, after closing a dark fountain, other Dark Worlds would be an out-of-bounds region, so they were teleported to the closest room in the Light World?
@@pedroivog.s.6870 no no. They did the traveling themselves. No teleportation required. They walked from one dark world in the closet (castle town) to another dark world in the unused classroom (card Kingdom). After closing the dark fountain in the unused classroom, that’s where they “woke up”
Does that help/make sense?
@@YouMayKnowMeAsNate was an analogy lol. But do you mean that the rouxls are:
The characters are going to wake up in the room where the dark world was, in the position they were before falling into the dark world
If they moved to another dark world, they will wake on middle of that room
Is it it?
Regarding the idea of Ruuxls/Seam fight, what if you fight one in the normal route and one in the weird route? You mentioned Rouxls wants to follow the most evil person (like the minions from dispicible me lol) so they'd follow Kris in the weird route and may know a way to defeat Seam. Then in the normal route, if Rouxls somehow became a threat, you'd have to ask Seam for help defeating him.
I don't know if the Reddit Seam bit was referring to something I commented on there specifically, I'm u/DarkLordWiggles on there. But if it was, there is another bit to the idea that wasn't brought up. The speculation is that while Seam believes himself to be unbeatable, he still very much likes the idea of facing off against a worthy opponent. So he is leading the fun gang to fight all the secret bosses and gain fighting experience for this very reason.
There was another bit explaining the reasoning behind why you only fight Seam in a specific ending, but this is incredibly speculative. The thought is that Deltarune ends in a forced bad ending which leads to the world being reset back to the first chapter, and after beating the game once, you then have to replay the game to find an alternate path that literally breaks the game, allowing you to break the cycle. Basically you become a crazy person, with forbidden knowledge, trying to be free just like the secret bosses. Seam is the cosmic timeline seamster that is charged by the true antagonist (who is basically a representation of the forced plotline) to repair the game by stopping you at the end if you go down this path.
Hope this becomes a series, there's so many compelling theories out there
If Chess Theory is correct, that means that Kris can be the knight but not the only one, Kris could be the knight on their side while the knight that King and Queen talk about could be the knight on their side.
Not just that, but there's two knights on each side. That might explain why Kris wasn't there to open the other fountains.
It be intresting to see if the chapters for thw Rook and Bishop have 2 bosses/antagonists and then having 2 knights.
This is probably correct, we have a king and a queen, and a church the next piece will be a bishop
kris could have promoted into the knight when they opened a dark world
I mean, chess-wise, we have a queen and a king, but there are two each of rooks, bishops, and knights.
Kris is certainly _A_ knight, but they are unlikely to be the _only_ knight.
nah kris aint the knight
@@bottleofsyrup9916
Precisely, they are not _the_ knight, but they have opened a dark fountain as of the end if chapter 2, making them _a_ knight.
It would be interesting to see in chapter 3, imagine:
- One of the main charachters represents A rook while the boss represebts THE rook, tho kind of unlikely
- A new darkner, who is a brother or something to the main boss, who's place was taken violently by the boss and was captured, so then you save him and he helps you fight the boss. And then maybe he sacrifices himself, because he sacrificed THE ROOOK!!!!!
I've always thought Asriel is the knight. It is implied that the dark world started as some sort of game that Asriel and Kris made, most likely some sort of roleplaying that Asriel told Kris. This made me assume that Asriel is the Knight, he and Kris are both knights as the heroes of their stories. He would not be the main villain though, he'd come to dramatically face Kris and the fun gang but he wouldn't be a villain and instead playing a role. He'd turn into an ally (but probably not a party member) when the real threat came up. Essentially, even if the evidence isn't the greatest, Asriel being A knight seems to make sense from the perspective of the Dark World starting as a game the 2 siblings played.
@@IrvingIV Knight is not fucking rank it's ONE person (the boi that opened the unused closet and library dark fountains).
SpookyDood: "I've got a theory that I think solves all of DELTARUNE's major mysteries and explains Gaster's role in all this!"
Me, looking at my own ultimate theory involving Gaster that I've been delaying: "Oh God, oh no, oh jeez, oh god"
(Good video btw!)
ur theories are great Jaru
Bust out the thumbtacks and red string its time for a theory duel
Man Triple you get around, huh? Love seeing crators interacting with each other.
All theories are welcome imo, go crazy dude
Just to clarify: I'm not arguing that Kris DEFINITELY IS the Knight, just that Toby wants us to believe this is the case, and that the truth is something we'll learn down the line. Lots of fans are trying to explain why Kris opened the Dark World using ONLY information we already know, and I don't like most of those theories. That ending was DEFINITELY supposed to make us question Kris' actions, and (at least for now) make us think Kris is indeed the Knight.
(However, I still don't think there's any SOLID evidence debunking Kris Knight. There's explanations for the Dark World, King not recognizing them, and the scrapped intro. I still think it's TECHNICALLY possible.)
P.S.: It turns out, Al Gailort may be a fake. Whoops! At the very least, my statements about Bratty and Catti still stand. Sorry, wasn't trying to spread misinformation, I got fooled!
Personally I don't think it's really possible at all. Sure it's plausible but as someone else pointed out, the point with them being in a completely different place in chapter one can be explained by the fact that those were two connected dark worlds. Once Kris and Susie made their way through the big dark door, that was essentially them going through the door on the left in the unused classroom, in which the only place it could lead is the closet. On top of that, I don't think we should forget that Kris seemed just as surprised about the castle town as Susie, and maybe even more terrified given how he backs up on his own. I don't think it's totally implausible that Kris did it to have another adventure but you make a lot of good points about that. I think it makes the most sense personally that they might be looking for Dess, being the only one who likely saw her go missing and thus probably realizing the dark worlds and her disappearance were connected. And so, potentially having just learned from queen that anyone could make a dark world, and maybe possibly pulling from their former occult knowledge to put pieces together to actually know how to make one, maybe they just figure that making dark worlds would be the best way to finally try and find Dess. After all I doubt Kris is that angsty that they want to bring about the end of the world after hearing THATS what happens when too many dark fountains are made.
Except Toby knows we're going to have time to think between chapters. It wasn't years of analysis that lead people to "Kris being the knight just doesn't add up", it was almost immediate.
@@keiyakins I thought and point exactly.
Hm, I can see what you mean and yeah it’s possible that might be what Toby wants us to think, especially considering that Kris is Knight was the initial Reaction for most people, at least based on the Reactions I saw.
However, in comparison to what Chapter 1 left us with, I feel like this is much easier to explain away after some thought, which has also been the case for most people, it really doesn’t make sense especially when considering the circumstances for the previous Dark Fountains,
Also, i highly doubt that Toby would believe that he could have/keep us to believe that Kris is the Knight all the way to when the next Chapter(s) comes out.
This has been pissing me off to no end and I have to write it before I explode
The ch2 dark world was not necessarily opened whilst Berdly and Noelle were in the room.
in chapter 1 we clearly see that dark worlds appear as freakishly dark rooms, Susie and Kris go in to find a light switch before the floor collapses.
in my opinion, this same series of events happened to Noelle and Berdly.
thank you.
I cannot find the image atm but I do remember that during the sweepstakes someone asked fangamer if the Noelle email actually went anywhere, and they said no. The sweepstakes wasn’t an ARG but a self contained thing. Sounds like someone was just trying to goof around.
15:28 the reason they are in a different room than the closet is that they went from the castle town dark fountain (closet) to the card kingdom one (unused classroom). For the chapter 2 dark fountain the only explanation I have for them not being at the entrance is that you can still move during the transition from light to dark.
Also I feel like your skipped out on quite a bit of counter evidence to Kris is knight theory and only focused on one piece of counter evidence.
Also based on how chapter one made you think Kris was demon chara, I believe chapter two is also a red hearing.
Finally, I can't wait for your large scale theory, I hope it reaches the scopes and insanity of JaruJaru's!
(On the topic of Kris being the Knight) Yeah, I honestly don't personally believe that Kris is the Knight, however I think that a lot of people are trying to justify their actions, FULLY believing they aren't the Knight. My belief is: Kris knows things we don't, and we'll learn why they opened the dark world later, HOWEVER right now the implied reason is that Kris is the knight. I'm sure they probably aren't, my point was just "that's what Toby wants us to think."
Also, thanks! Yeah, my large scale theory is a bit insane, and DEFINITELY has a large scope. I hope I can match the unhinged insanity of Jaru's theories (which I honestly love, lol).
Great video. I'd like to say something about Kris being the Knight. Several pieces of dialogue in the game imply that we can call a knight to any Lightner who opens a Dark Fountain. For example, Queen says she needs a new knight to expand her domain beyond the boundaries of the Librarby. Berdly is willing to accept this request as he wanted to create a world where he is praised. In that case he could have been a knight -more specifically a neo knight, as he was about to create a Dark Fountain inside another Dark Fountain. So, we can say Kris is a knight, but not the Roaring Knight.
yesss, this makes so much sense
Yeah that tracks. Though i feel like another knght ight just also be because wueen had no idea how to call lighterne that open portals and the knight was her only refrence point
Every lightner that has entered the dark world has been related as knight at some point, Susie is described as a dark knight in a menu description, Kris is just literally a knight, Berdly is a "knight in glow in the dark armor," and Queen tries to make Noelle the new knight. I think that "knight" is really just another term for lightner, so "the knight" really just means "the lightner."
However, I still disagree that Kris isn't the knight, because seriously give me any goal for Kris that would require opening a dark fountain that couldn't be achieved just by either waiting for the real knight to open another dark fountain or just using the castle town fountain.
@@moppermop5287 i think kris most likley has a motive for opening that fountain we dont know about. If i had to pinpoint something right now outside of them being the knight its that they wanted to go on another trip during the pacafist and neutral routes (they set it up to make sure susie was there as always and also is trying to get toriel in there to maybe fix their homelife). And if the player goed full snowgrave they instead do it to try and get people to realise the imminent threat these dark world and the player form (the reason they slash the tire here is to get the police to come over and susie being there is a unfortunate side effect as they whould rather not have risked susie being there but at this point its to late to change)
@@finnvaneekelen4966 I said a goal that couldn't be achieved by just using the castle town dark fountain or waiting for the real knight to open a dark fountain. If their motivation is to go on another adventure, then why don't they just wait for the real knight to make one for them instead of endangering the world? If they want to alert people to what's going on, why don't they just tell them (Kris is clearly capable of talking on their own, even with the soul in) and take them to castle town if they don't believe them?
Also it's not enough to just say there could be an explanation, because that's just pure speculation at that point. If you want to disprove Kris being the knight give a reasonable explanation or find some other problem with Kris being the knight.
My thought that the reason why Ralsei can travel between dark worlds is that Ralsei’s real world object is Kris’s childhood devil horns band. Think about it, he has pinkish horns which could come from the darkening of Kris’s horn band. Plus Kris might be hiding away the horn from Toriel and also from us the players because that band is another entity in the dark world, and entity that expresses some of the experiences Kris had as a child
U can explain me about this horns, i don't know nothing about this, and i'm a median/greta UT/DR Fan
My personal reviews of all these theories. (Warning: very long comment)
1) I agree that Ralsei has suspicious activity. Everything you said I believe
2) I see Chess theory as a amazing fan theory, and not the actual intentions of Toby. Media analysis doesn’t have to be the Authors strict word, fan theories can just naturally develop. I believe what we know about chapter 3 With Mike and Tenna disproves chess theory as a strict canonical metaphor, but that doesn’t kill the theory, it just makes it a interpretation
3) Hell yeah another Seam as a secret boss enjoyer. I’m so glad you mentioned the Seam ripper. I know merch isn’t canon, but that was written so cryptically it has to imply something
4) I don’t believe that’s a real Toby account, because someone impersonated Berdly with his Handle when the Sweepstakes happened. I remember people getting tricked by them on Reddit.
5) I agree that we don’t fully know Kris motivations at all and your right in saying that Cutscene was created to Imply that Kris will be the Knight to a casual player... However I’m strongly against Kris being the Knight. I believe Noelle and Berdly did sit down before the fountain was created by the Knight, who was waiting in the closet! My personal theory is Kris being the Knight will be a intentional red herring and a plot point in chapter 3, hence why we have evidence both for and against them.
(Also with your point about Rouxls turning to stone “earlier”, I believe the theory that Rouxls becoming a pirate in the acid lake, and thus having him adapt to the cyber world with him representing internet piracy, made him last longer. In Snowgrave The music trio flee the city, therefore Rouxls never gets the thrash machine, therefore he freezes earlier whilst he’s having his worm filled encounter with Swatch at the cafe. I know it’s just a fan theory, but it’s a really good way to plug that plot hole)
Im quite interested as to what you mean about Mike and tenna for chess theory, could you explain that?
As to 4, fangamer explicitly confirmed that email was unrelated.
Actually what we know about chapter 3 and Mike and tenna is beneficial to chess theory because there are 2 rooks on each side of the chess board
I can't wait for all of us to have theorized something regarding Deltarune and making these extreme connections just for Toby to explain these odd circumstances with something extremely mundane, like how Chapter 1's cliffhanger was explained by Kris just wanting some pie.
Yeah Lol
As I understood it, a retcon is retroactively (as in, after the fact) changing rules in canon about how things work. But Ralsei was always described as being different than other darkners and had a mystery around his very existence, why he was alone, etc. I don't think Toby was so stumped on how to get Ralsei into the Cyber World that he retconned how the rules of Deltarune work and Ralsei's backstory, that seems weird.
Hasn't the fact that the darkners can live in Your Castle Town (aka without their fountain) already proof that the pure darkness fountain is special and different than other fountains? Or am I missing something here? It's possible I'm misunderstanding something, it's been a hot minute since I've thought hard about Deltarune lore
Also I appreciate the way you analyse theories while thinking about what Toby *wants* us to be suspicious or thinking about. A lot of people analyse this game like it's in a vacuum or not a story made by a person, like it's a real world. So some of the conclusions they come to seem a bit weird to me. This was refreshing to watch in that sense.
Also the reason our characters move in the light world in chapter 1 is easy. Because they went through a door in the dark world. Remember, they went into the closet and ended up on the outskirts of castle town. Then they went through a door and ended up in the part of dark world with Lancer and all the chess pieces. So when they woke up, they were IN that space. Why would they have appeared back in the closet if that's not where the dark fountain was sealed, you know? It wouldn't make sense. But when we enter and leave castle town in chapter 2, it's through the closet/supply room. Same as the library computer lab
I really don't know what the contradiction is here, it's stayed consistent imo
I'm glad to see a Deltarune theorist who acknowledges and interprets DR as an intentionally crafted narrative rather than looking at the lore in a void, which I think a lot of theorists suffer from. A few points: the holiday girl email was explicitly denied connection to the sweepstakes, by fangamer. As for the Kris knight theory, I definitely agree that Toby wants us to think that - which is also why I doubt it's the (whole) truth, just like chapter 1's cliffhanger/red herring.
That being said, big agree on Seam, I think they're way more sus than Ralsei. I do still think Ralsei is hiding something, though. Also, good shout on the chess theory - I never gave it much merit but I'm reconsidering, although I'm hesitant on the church dark world (doesn't seem like there'd be enough material to create a whole dark world's worth).
Interested to hear your comprehensive theory though! (as long as it's not a time loop)
@Grandiville Strong I just feel like that's a rather significantly loaded topic for Toby to dive into in that way respectfully, ie turning religious stuff into funny monsters
@@jargalo0098
It may be a loaded topic, but it sure hasn't stopped Toby so far.
For example, take a look at the way Noelle is tied to the hand just before the Giga Queen fight. Look at her pose, and tell me that's not a crucifixion.
Then take a look at how Spamton refers to the Thorn Ring:
> "Are you looking for the [Ring] of [Thorns]?"
and then notice who we force to wear it, and what it does to her in battle.
According to the story, the Romans made Jesus wear a crown of thorns to mock and inflict great pain on him, just before having him crucified.
@@doom64hunter i mean obviously theres loads of religious references and symbolism, I just think it would be a difficult theme to create an entire dark world out of.
I'm fully of the belief that Kris isn't the knight and their reason for creating the dark fountain changes based on which route you go through. In the normal route Kris reconnects with Noelle and deepens their bond with Susie, someone who on multiple occasions Kris has shown to care for. They probably still don't like being controlled by another entity, but if it can be used as a method to make new friends and connect with new ones, they may be fine with it for now. Kris making the fountain at the end is them saying, "Alright, that was kinda fun, let's do it again." Possibly with the goal of becoming closer with Toriel, who seems kinda distant at the moment
The weird route has much less for Kris to enjoy, for obvious reasons. While in the normal route Ralsei's explanation of The Roaring was deep and very wordy, complete with a variety of detailed illustrations and a unique music track, the Weird Route's explanation of the same concept is much more concise and down to the point. Kris, famous for not really caring about the actual plot happening around them and falling asleep at odd times, possibly wasn't listening to Ralsei's loredump in the normal route, but was much more likely to catch it during Snowgrave. Now they have a new goal in mind, making the roaring happen on purpose to spite the player. They decide after the events of the weird route this whole thing has gone too far, and bid to destroy the entire world if it has a chance of shaking us as the audience off of them and their friends.
I love the chess theory, I never heard of it until now. 👍
Also, a little thing on the inconsistency of Dark Worlds (sorry for the criticism by the way). The Castle town dark fountain and the classroom dark fountain are (or were) connected by the great door which was the actual light world door
Great video overall! Some small points of disagreement though:
- The email thing is almost certainly unrelated, just some random real person’s account. The page where Noelle asks people to contact her initially said to email her, but then got updated to just link back to her main page after people started sending emails. The Sweepstakes was meant to be fully self-contained to the website (and Fangamer’s Twitter).
- Re: Kris being the Knight, there’s one small thing that makes me disinclined to think Kris will be *the* Knight at the end of the day. At the start of I believe the Chapter 1 anniversary playthrough livestream (that ended with the opening to Chapter 2), some unused DR songs were shown off with bits of text for context. One of them, Toby’s text said, was imagined to play under an animated intro for the game, which would end with the main cast running up a set of stairs, where the Knight would be standing at the top. Now I imagine the Knight’s identity would be hidden in some way in this hypothetical intro, likely by their outfit… but it doesn’t really work if Kris is the Knight, because they then would presumably be one of the main cast going up the stairs to face… themself. Yes, it’s an out-of-game reason, but as long as we’re theorizing about what the actual outcome will be and not just what the game is currently leading us to believe, I think it’s valid to consider.
- Lastly, though someone else may have mentioned this, the only pronouns that have been used for Seam were “they” from Toby in the previously mentioned livestream, so it’s best practice to use they/them for them rather than he :)
mate, don't put the condesending smiley face, people only referred to Seam as "he" because their name is literally a pun of a common Male name
@@mr.monkey354:)
I don’t believe Kris is the knight King, Queen, Jevil, etc refer to. Those characters would automatically recognize Kris unless Kris can change form some how.
Also inspecting the closest in the computer lab gives you a quote saying that a large person can fit inside. It’s probably referring to someone other than Kris who is on the smaller side.
In chess their are two knights on each side so maby Kris is one of them
WHAAAAAT?! A person who actually analyzes "Kris Knight" theory instead of repeating some outdated arguments?!
Damn, I am so suprised
i love how well you articulated your thoughts on the theories, you actually have me more convinced on some of them then i had been before!
I have an answer for you about how moving in the dark world effects the light world
The dark world (castle town) is connected by the door to another dark world (the card kingdom)
So by moving from one dark world to the other they come out in the unused room
Hope this helps
Seconding this, that's what I thought too
Yes, that does explain it. I do wonder on how it works though; If moving in the Dark World but in the same Fountain's area doesn't move you in the Light World, how do the Dark Worlds move the Lightners' bodies when they move from one Dark World to another? I suppose they could just teleport, but perhaps they move themselves in a way akin to sleepwalking.
With the TV theme that may happen in chapter 3 I noticed that the name mike could line up with say a microphone
I'm which case could it not be a MIKE ROOK PHONE thought that was cool
I love how people say that Tenna hinders the chess theory when an antenna is a *tower* made to broadcast and receive signals (aka too and from or back and forth). Just cus it isn't a literal rook doesn't mean it ain't a stand in for one. Queen and King weren't straight up a Queen piece or a King piece, rather they were items that stood in for those pieces.
on the "ralsei going to the cyber world" thing i feel like the dark worlds are all connected somehow. i mean there's the obvious one of the Town dark world being connected to the chess world, and there's implied interactions between cyber world and non- cyber world residents, so there's probably some way to go between different dark worlds built into the workings of the dark world itself
Kris Knight popular? Oh spooky, you make me laugh and cry at the same time.
Very good video and format, excited to see more whenever you get to it
This is my personal review on these theories. This is NOT an attack in any way shape or form. I simply want to share my reflections about this video.
1) I also believe that Ralsei is suspicious, but I do not agree with your idea of “if Toby Fox wants you to believe something, it must be true”. I believe that logic always must be applied to analyses, theories and speculation. A story presented without logic, at least for me, wouldn’t be fulfilling or satisfying. For me if logic is out of the window a story is no longer meaningful, because it lacks consistency.
2) I absolutely agree.
3) I mostly agree. I’m less sure about the rules card.
4) I think this is bait.
5) I don’t know. I think that the answers to the main question will be revealed in chapters 3-5. I think that it’s implied that Noelle and Birdly fell asleep before the fountain was opened, that’s why they believed that it was a dream. Otherwise going into a pitch black room and falling would definitely make it seem more realistic, or at least would have been mentioned by either of them.
5.5) The evidence you provided is not the only evidence against Kris being the knight. There are a lot more problems with that interpretation. For example: King and Queen do not recognize Kris, Queen says the fountain was created today not tonight, How would Kris know about the fountains and why would they be scared by the first one before entering in chapter 1. Kris being the knight creates a lot more plot holes than it seals. You believe the opinion of the majority is the most important within deltarunes lore. This is a false argument. It doesn’t matter how many people believe that Kris is the knight, they don’t have to be
It doesn’t matter how many people believe the earth is flat, it doesn’t have to be
It doesn’t matter how many monkeys believe that two bananas plus two bananas are five bananas, they don’t have to be.
In all of the instances above the opinion of the general public is the thing that matters the least.
Even if Toby fox wants us to believe that Kris is the knight there are things such as red herrings and subversions.
The will of Toby Fox is not always the truth.
If I have made any huge leaps in my judgment please correct me.
I dont feel like Queen saying it was created today and not tonight is not really valid. time works COMPLETELY differently in the darkworld, and they entered the library in the day not the night.
Otherwise I agree with every statement you said
1. It is never stated that the knight met King and Queen
2. Queen is a computer, today could easily be 12am and considering Kris doesn't get much sleep, that would work out.
3. Kris clearly plans the making of the fountain we see at the end of chapter 2, I doubt they were surprised about the dark world itself, probably the closet itself.
4. No, Kris being the knight seals a lot more plot holes.
5. The majority of people say there is no way Kris could be the knight which is false.
You are one of those people who would get seriously mad if Kris ever does get revealed as the knight because you think you know better than Toby Fox.
@@genocideophidian966 I am 90% sure that Kris isn’t the knight, there are more arguments such as how Toby wanted the trio to see the knight at the end of chapter one or two, but my main point was criticizing the method of argumentation because, at least for my liking, it is way too “meta”.
@@_kartofeleek That doesn't matter, if Toby makes Kris the knight then they are the knight. You may personally find it too meta but that is your opinion.
Stupid frivolous theory: Tenna will be a female darkner, specifically Queen’s older sister.
Why? Because I do NOT think Toby Fox in his heart of hearts could pass up on the opportunity of making the pun out of her being Lancer’s AUNT Tenna
Edit: Also Spamton referenced a Boobtube and after “It Means Tity”, I put nothing past Toby
just seen all ur vids and gotta say imo ur the best new/recent theorist in da ut/dt game. love the vids and your takes on some of the mysteries around. keep it up and good luck to ya.
I would also like to point out that pawns need to go 6 spaces in order to promote. Guess which piece according to the chess theory aligns with the sixth chapter.
I believe that one of the pawns(maybe kris or the vessel?) is going to promote at the end of chapter 6 and then fight us in chapter 7.
Great video ! I really hopes it turns into a series.
But I disagree with the points made at 15:27.
In fact, remember in chapter one when we leave Castle Town we go through "the great door" which is almost certainly representing the real door in the light world between the closet and the toy room. It's so far very consistent that there is one dark fountain per room, when we close the fountain of chapter one, the toy room goes back to normal yet castle town still exists because in chapter two it's still there.
To sum it up, in chapter one we go through different dark world zones whereas in chapter 2 we stay in the same (cyberworld) and that's why we change rooms in chapter 1.
This is an awesome series idea!
7:16 I think this might make him a mini boss or a boss fight before the actual character behind it all
Rouxls has explanation for not being turned to stone as fast as Lancer, and that he wasn't FULLY turned into stone. he TRIED TO FIT IN the dark world. which, also, Darkners belong to a fountain, but as Ralsei say, they MIGHT not belong to another. MIGHT is the key word. edit: also, he's fully stoned in Snowgrave Route because it took us more time to do the job then for him to "Survive", and probably he didn't had time to fit when we did massacre.
You bring up a great point at the end there. I'll take it a step further: I think these theories may be changing with the ending might actually be. If Toby really wants it to be a surprise and we guessed it then he could change it
A Kris-Knight defender, in current-month? Kinda based... little bit based tbh...
The best deltarune theory is the gas pipe theory
Hm, fair and valid points and opinions, this was very interesting, I appreciated and understood pretty much all of the points you pointed out in this Video.
With the exception of the Last one, about Kris Being the Knight, while I can see your points to a certain degree, you did overlook certain details, like for example it was stated in Game that the Cyber World was curated on the same Day you entered it,
as well as that in Chapter 1 the Dark World you traveled in was at the time within two separate Rooms each having it’s own Dark Fountain, while in Chapter 2 the Dark World was solely within one singular Room, which would explain why you ended up moving in Chapter 1 but not Chapter 2,
I really hope that you either realized this or had it pointed out to you after Uploading this.
In regards to chess theory, does Tenna really have to literally be a Rook piece? it could just be a metaphorical thing
Yeah, I personally don't think that Chapter 3's main antagonist will actually look like a rook chess piece or be named Rook like SpookyDood thinks. Rather, I believe that they'll be Tenna, who will be a rook, but in a different sense of the word. I could see him being a corrupt showman who regularly screws over his own talent. Maybe he'll offer to let Kris, Susie and Ralsei seal his fountain if they agree to first work for him as actors in a show, only to then reveal that thanks to a loophole in the contract, they now have to work for him forever. Him manipulating Undyne with similar tricks also seems plausible.
I notice many people seem confused about the first closest dark world connecting to the unused classroom dark world, but I think that the locked door on the East wall of the classroom corresponds to the Great Door in the dark world, and is just another door to the closet for convenience so someone could access it without leaving the room. It does seem to be the sort of closet to contain classroom supplies like chalk, so I don’t think this is too far fetched. So Kris and Susie went through the Great Door/closet door to get to the classroom dark world.
I love this video, except for the ralsei part. Toby himself mentioned he thought of ralsei before asriel.
if chess theory is real then there is a possibility no matter how unlikely that redacted might be the knight since they are found in a horse stable and the horse piece is called the knight
I wish that would happen
i do wanna say we never saw gaster.
its the community that gave the mystery man that name.
15:36 You know I actually have a theory for why in game rouxls turned to stone later or why he transforms into stone sooner.
My theory is kinda like that if or if not they will turn to stone spends or their power my theory is that Lancer survives for some time but still turns to stone is that he isn’t a very powerful object, One little fun detail is that rouxls never fully turns to stone in the normal route since he IS the RULES CARD he is powerful, he commands the rules, in his fight he literally changes the rules to playing a game of conquering houses. But why does he turn to stone fully in the snowgrave you ask? It’s because in snowgrave, you manipulate Noelle, you kill Berdly and finds a way to kill darkners, something that should be impossible since they always run away. You are essentially BREAKING THE RULES
My thought has been that Kris opened the Dark World for the Player, to keep them out of Hometown as much as possible. There's a risk of us attacking Toriel, of course, but at least if we go on another rampage it'll be away from most of the townsfolk. I suppose in the Pacifist route this would be overcautious...but Kris has no way of knowing whether the next chapter is the one where we get violent
Can't wait for the big theory vid
Great video! One problem: how can you say both "there's a movie with clues pointing to the wrong people (red herrings), the writers were tricking us for their mystery" but then immediately follow up with "Kris is definitely the knight because the game leads us to believe that, and what the writer intends for us to believe is definitely the truth"? What makes you think Toby Fox isn't pulling a "Knives Out"? Also, what about Rouxls Kaard and the Roaring Knight both having the initials RK? (Another red herring, in my opinion, and one that is easily disproven, but one that should be mentioned)
You understood it wrong. They meant that it's intended for us to think that "oh kris is obviously depicted as the Knight!! So it's probably a Trick they're not the Knight" leading to us making theories of who the Knight could be when in reality it was kris. Double psychology if you want.
i have a theory about ralsei. one of the things we can't figure out is how ralsei got to cyber world, right? what if the knight brought him (or whatever his object is)? that would explain how he just showed up. it would also imply that the knight is actively watching kris and susie. it's only one possible explanation, of course, but if ralsei isn't there at the beginning of the next chapter, and then somehow shows up later, i think i'll be on to something with this idea.
God the idea of Toby pulling a sans on Rouxls scares the hell out of me, mostly because I like him as a silly little fail guy and I don't know how I could feel about seeing him all serious 😂even though a part of me does want to see it. But something that most "Rouxls is going to be a boss" or that he's going to be much more relevant theories never seem to mention and that I'm always thinking about is two points
1. When he's about to unleash his "real powere" the light effects that start appearing are almost indentical, to the ones that start appearing on Berdly's halberd when he's about to open a dark fountain, most likely, determination, and, if the rule of undertale about how determination can melt the bodies of monster is still up, that could explain Rouxls's somewhat melty appeareance, if we assume darkners work somewhat similar to monsters, plus, if we think about the fact that allegedly darkners can't use determination, if Rouxls was able to, that could of course have some effect on him, on this case, melting, even if it's just a little bit.
and 2. (which I'm surprised no one ever brings up) Is that when you first meet him, he traps Kris and company on a separate room, with the catch for the player to enter this room being a sparkle almost identical to the save point, but of course, inside the game, Rouxls put this in order to trap Kris, as he was tasked to trap the Lightners, and of course he put a decoy of Kris's save point to trap them in, but the thing is, that the game itself tells you that *only kris can see their savepoint* no one else can, this implies that Rouxls is not only aware of the concept of saving (something that so far, only Kris and Ralsei seem to know) but that he also knows how Kris's savepoint looks like (something that not even Ralsei seems to know, he only ever tells Kris to save, but never explicitely shows that he actually knows how the savepoint looks like).
idk, there's definetely something going on with that guy but I hope he continues to be fail, great video btw!!! I also share the sentiment that you should make this into some sort of series!
If Mike’s last name was Rook then his name would sound like “My Crook,” just a theory.
I'm glad I wasn't the only one to think this. Spamton even calls him a criminal, it's a stone's toss to call him a crook.
I agree with the comments on Kris and the knight. So many people think the mystery of the knight is their identity, but the real mystery is what is their motivation. Revealing that kris is the knight, but for some reason still wants then closed is the mystery. What’s kris plan and angle is, that is the mystery! Everyone sitting around thinking that Toby ‘wouldn’t reveal the knight so early’ is overthinking it. Like the prince of darkeners is based on a member of Kris’s family for Christ-sake.
3-5 and maybe even 6 will be the lead up to understanding Kris motivation
So there actually is another solid piece of evidence for Kris not being the Knight, and that the dark fountain had to have been opened specifically while Kris and Susie were walking to the Library, and it has to do with Ralsei.
When Ralsei arrives in the Cyber World, he says that he decided to come there after "sensing a dark presence". I'm not using this next bit as part of this explanation, but for what it's worth Temmie also references the fun gang in one of her own games *Dweller's Empty Path*, and the Ralsei knock-off there specifically says "I can't sense a fountain anywhere here.", implying Ralsei has the ability to sense the existence of other dark fountains. Regardless, keep in mind that Ralsei was never told Kris and Susie were going to the Library, only that they had a project to work on. Ralsei never mentions any sort of dark presence prior to arriving in the Cyber World, even though he would have ample time to warn Kris and Susie had the Cyber World fountain been made the night prior. Ralsei was going to investigate on his own for all he knew, so why would he only have gone after Kris and Susie left and not some time in the night? This only makes sense if the presence was only felt after Kris and Susie had already left.
That said I also don't believe the Knight is just a Lightner that hid in the closet, and I suspect the line of a large person fitting inside is actually referring to the GIGA Queen, as the server (swatchlings pun) closet is most likely the analog for her mansion. Given Queen's motivations and the fact she must know who Noelle is, as well as other Lightners, from the beginning in order to have specifically dedicated rooms to them. The Knight most likely isn't a Lightner at all, but some sort of opposing player-like entity that can take control of NPCs. In this case, the Knight must have taken control of Noelle after Berdly fell asleep, and used her to open the fountain and fight off Queen's minions in order to gain her attention. Then the Knight gave Noelle her will back once Kris and Susie arrived. Queen saw this, realized this was something puppeting Noelle and revealing her potential, and Queen immediately planned to do the exact same to make more fountains.
About Kris creating the fountain at the end of chapter 2, my personal believe is that his trying to track Spamtons past or something, turning on the TV was to specific of Kris part and the only one who metions a TV in dark world was Spamton, so i think Kris is trying to solve Spamton or something, maybe they think that by knowing how far Spamton went to break the string, they would know how to do it, i mean, Kris seem to be around their 13-17 years and his clearly not a adult so Kris might be naive about the whole "break the strings and be free" thing!
(sorry about any bad english)
But, judging by his reaction at the end of the fight, he clearly knows what would actually happen if you "cut your strings", after neo just collapsed after being cut off
It can't be that. The only required meeting with Spamton is fighting him in the alley where you learn almost nothing about him, and you can just beat him up and ignore his deal completely.
8:22 I think this only really works if you use SPECIFICALLY Mystery Man as reference for what Gaster looks like, but we just don’t know if this is the case. Yes, Seam does have that same cut down his eye, but it doesn’t even properly align with Mystery Man’s. And the line down Rouxls mouth I assumed was a classy tooth gap, not just an inconspicuous line.
15:20
I disagree that they’re inconsistent.
The reason we move to another physical space in CH1 is because another dark world was connected to the closet dark world, thus when they exited Castle Town and entered the Card Kingdom and sealed that dark fountain, they appeared in the classroom where the fountain was made.
In CH2 there is only the one dark world separate from Castle Town and the Great Door, not right next to it, so the lightness all appear in that space where the fountain was sealed and not in a different room.
there are literally 2 doors in the unused classroom
@@BiomechanicalBrick yes but the entrance to the classroom isn’t connected to another dark world like the great 🚪
@@matttale7918 the entrance no but the other door leads to the closet imo
@@BiomechanicalBrick yeah and that’s why they don’t end up in the closet castle town
jarujaru says raelsi is the reanimated dust of objects after kris killed him with a jello knife, and asriel is the third entity that controls kris, and we control the soul of asreil instead of kris.
to be honest when i think of why QUEEN is in Chapter 2: She's meant to be connected to King, and is a Card reference. she even had Spade and Card attacks planned!
I agree Toby wants us to think Kris is the night.
Which is why I think they totally aren’t.
Like looking at this from a lore view, yah it makes sense, from a storytelling point of view though… where do we go from here.
We’ve seen will still be playing as Kris for all chapter 3 and presumably chapter all of 4 as well, that means if the reveal is happening it’s in chapter five… it’s sorta lame to just sit on a twist for almost a third of the game.
HOWEVER having us go into chapter three suspecting Kris is the Knight, having them maybe do other things without our input that seems to support that assumption, only to get bodied when we realize we had the wrong guy.
*kiss* that’s a spicy meat ball!
the cross stitch book seam lore absolutely caught me off-guard when I was reading my copy, since it's specifically an undertale book and at most i expected some sort of undertale lore joke
and not like, "this is what the weapon seam might Obliterate you with 700 times is called"
the book was also published on ch1's first anniversary if anyone wants to go insane about an arts and crafts book about analogue pixel art? (and also for anyone interested, the seam ripper thing is in the glossary section of the book on page 13)
Very proud of you for all of the points you've made, hefty brain take right there. It's still possible that Toby's storytelling is purposefully placing Ralsei in a suspicious light and Kris in the position of the Knight, but knowing Toby and how incredibly complex his work is, I wouldn't be surprised that all of the takes were correct: Ralsei IS sus, Ralsei is NOT evil, but there's a third secret thing.
Kris IS _a_ Knight, Kris is not _the_ Knight, but also a third secret thing.
toby fox probably wouldn't make the knight _THAT_ obvious. Also, whilst describing *The Roaring* , Ralsei claims that the darkers "one by one" will turn to stone.
edit: youtube comment text formating does *not* work like discord, you can't have shit outside the thing touch the asterisks.
If the Chess theory and the final theory is true then there is a chance that Vs. Kris (a fansong I'm sure you've heard of) will come true in the chapter the creator thought it would be in (it was made before chapter 2).
So exited for the Seam And Rouxl duo boss fight in the chapter 5 weird route.
When I played chapter 2 for the first time, near the end of it I thought to myself "okay, the knight has a human-ish hand, doesn't have boy or girl pronouns... WAIT A MINUTE."
and when I saw Kris stabbing the ground, I screamed.
Personally I think Ralsei is hiding something because he directly quotes Flowey in the Ralsei dummy fight. He says “The culmination of your being” speaking about your soul and Flowey says “the very culmination of your being”
This is absolutely not a coincidence.
thing to remember about rouxls with the 'gaster eyes' is that he's literally just winking, he doesn't usually look like that
jockington could be weird route, he could "poison" enemies maybe?
also the sprite, mystery man, is not confirmed to be gaster
If Al Gailort is really Bratty's email, does that mean that Noelle was using Bratty's computer to post on forums? possibly because of her mother?
Great video! Just one thing I'd like to say about the chess theory. While I do agree it is probably going to be true, I also believe that Tenna is going to be the main antagonist of Chapter 3. I think that even though he isn't named Rook, Tenna will still represent a Rook in some way. For example, the Knight's real name probably isn't going to be Knight, but they can still represent one. I just highly doubt that at the end of Chapter 2, Toby would show us a TV with an evil smile, and not have it be the next big bad guy. And I'm confident the TV's name is Tenna considering Tenna is likely referencing an Antenna, like a TV Antenna. Of course we won't know anything for sure until more of the game comes out so we'll just have to wait and see.
dark worlds can be opened by any lightner with any sharp object, right? what if the chapter 2 dark fountain opened because Berdly stabbed an eraser with his pencil, lol. it would make sense, he is a gamer
My face when the Knight is the essence of Gerson in some item
regarding al gailort: during the sweepstakes, where the egg page says to sign her guestbook, it originally said "PLEASE email me. PLEASE." instead of "PLEASE sign my guestbook. PLEASE." This was changed between 19:16 and 19:26 (the very first wayback machine snapshot says to email, and the VERY SECOND says to sign the guestbook), which implies they don't actually want people sending emails.
Does anyone else notice when rouxls teleports it has the same sound effect to when kris creates a fountain
A theory that I’ve had that kinda a aligns up with the rook theory, I think that Toby might introduce Mike as the main villain but then it is reveled that Tenna was actually controlling Mike and he was just a pawn that he screwed over along with Spamtom
i have seen a theory saying that desses dust was scattered on her favorite item, what if the guitar is in their home
15:22 susie and kris end up in the unused classroom because that's where card kingdom was. they were originally in castle town, which is located in the closet in the light world and passed the great door to go to card kingdom, which is in the unused classroom.
meanwhile cyber world is only one dark world so that's why noelle and berdly end up in the library.
edit: lol just realized someone already said this, my bad lmao.
for the point about the rules about the closet- you gotta keep in mind that the closet is the pure fountain. that's castle town. you then entered the great door, transporting you to the dark world in the abandoned classroom, being an entirely separate fountain from the one in castle town.
ofc the point about how they physically move across the room as they travel the dark world still holds up. that part certainly isn't consistent thus far.
15:21 i think that might be because chapter 1 has 2 different fountains. the one in the closet and the one in the unused classroom, because if you pay attention, the rug is placed right in front of a door in the classroom, which could mean that the classroom door is the great door, and that we enter the closet dark world but after going through the great door, we are in a different dark world.
In Chapter 1, Kris and Susie move from one Dark World to another. They go from Ralsei's to Spade King's. Ralsei specifically points to the big door being the divide between the two. So I think that's why they end up in different spots in Chapter 1 and not Chapter 2.
Also, it's implied that at least King and Queen have physically seen the Knight, so it would be odd for them both to interact with Kris the way they do and talk about the Knight with Kris right there.
15:00 well, I HIGHLY DISAGREE with you taking it as a misconception because there is more evidence
Ralsei when he arrives in Cyber World explains, that he felt a dark presence and hurried over. If he can feel when another dark fountain is open and presumably library fountain was opened last night the interraction with Ralsei in Castle Town would've been something like "Kris! Susie! We need to hurry! New dark fountain was opened last night somewhere in the west!"
Or you're gonna pull your classic "Ralsei has lied" card???)
I think the reason why you end up in a different room in chapter 1 is that you actually went to the dark world version of that room, and the great door is the dark world version of the door between the closet and a the unused classroom
What do you think about dragon blazers being an irl game, normal person or toby?
Theories enrich the experience. It's REALLY fun to theorize, even if you know you're probably wrong.
I may be wrong with this because i searched this up on goog so it could be wrong “the bishop doesn't necessarily need an outpost in the centre of the board - it can exert influence on the centre all the way from the edge.”
this could mean that the bishop could have full influence over their dark world in chapter 4 like a holy dictator. The bishop could also be hiding the dark fountain somewhere away from the trios reach maybe making this the most open space in deltarune with it having many places to visit and explore
13:20 in defence of this one it does seem that the knight has a tendency to have some interaction that causes people to attack you weather it be convincing the kind to kill you or caus8ng queen to try and make more fountains (possibly by accident]
Chess theory works quite well in the context of your "who's the main antagonist?" theory, cus' pawns are most likely characters which we control, pawns can turn into almost any other piece when they reach the end of the board (which will be the end of Knight's arc), Susie says how she wants to become Susazilla and wreck everything, Godzilla's nickname is "The king of monsters" so-o-o... Usually ppl turn their pawns into queens, so if Susie will play the Queen's roll in chapter 7 and we will fight with her giant beast form (Susazila-the queen of monsters), then it would be just perfect ngl.
the unused classroom has 2 doors one of which leads to the corridor and the other seems to lead to the supply closet. Castle town has a big door which seems to correspond to the door between the closet and the classroom.
Another issue with the whole "Kris is trying to alert Undyne because she won't listen" theory is that, from a gameplay standpoint, it's just...not great writing? I know the _fanbase_ will go and do everything after returning to the Light World, but like, the fact still remains that talking with Undyne, at all, is _completely_ optional dialogue. You don't have to tell her a thing if you don't want to. Which makes that justification suddenly not work.
My personal theaory regarding shawm is that he’s gonna be chapter 6’s secret boss, how it whould work out is you whould find the last shadow crystal in chapter 6 (either just hidden somewhere or through a second secret boss) and if you bring it to him he uses it (and any other shadow crystals you gave him) to make some gear. But before he does that he wants to see if you are ready (also he’s pretty boared and wants to see what these heroes can do to xhallenge him)
As for the rook in chapter 3, we know it has a television theme, and in the Undertale tarot cards the tower is Photoshop Flowey, whose head looks like a tv
16:19 i dont think Toby would be that careless about something so important, like the knight's identity.
I like to think of kris as a pawn of our game of chess
Oh this’ll be fun
It's definitely been opened after they started studying. The closest line hints at it, and the dream lie wouldn't make sense if they hadn't sat down and already started studying instead of walking into a dark room.
An idea I like regarding the knight is that if it does follow chess rules then that means even if we limit it to one side of the board there should be 2 knights and if we don't limit it to one side there should be 4.
Maybe all the knight shenanigans are all several unrelated people's plans overlapping.
In chapter 1 the reason you move in the light world is because they entered another dark world through Castle town. The gold door you go through is the door leading from the closet into the classroom. Meaning castle town is JUST the closet, while the chapter 1 darkworld takes place in the classroom.
Basically thats why the room never changes in Chapter 2, because you are never given the ability to leave that darkworld. This also means that when 2 darkwolrds are created in adjacent rooms they become connected, but are still considered separate. (This also means that we technically see Ralsai survive outside his own dark world all the way back in chapter one, and I think the explanation for that is the reverse of why everyone else can live just fine in castle town)
Great video! Only thing I do not agree with is kris being the knight. It doesn’t make sense for the twist to be revealed in chapter 2 of 7, it’s most likely a red herring. As you said, Toby wants us to believe Kris is the knight. While yes, this could be to actually tell us it’s Kris, it can very well be to make the actual reveal a twist, as we all believe Kris is the knight. Due to the fact that Toby’s reasoning is pure speculation at this point, I don’t really believe this logic works as it goes both ways.