I think the Bondi residents need to get used to the idea that they don't own the beach. They vastly underestimate the international tourist revenue for one - if the residents had sole access to the beach then most of the cafes and restaurants would have close and it'd become a backwater. A heavy rail tunnel to Bondi is the sensible option, with the only other being making a dedicated bus lane all the way from Bondi to the Junction and the city.
I don't know much about Sydney. But my point would be that when they bought in Bondi it was already a beach that people wanted to go to. I'm not sure why as last time I heard, it had a massive sewage issue, but then again I hear there aren't a lot of accessible beaches in Sydney and the traffic there is a disaster.
@@jayfielding1333at the same time its located in one of the richest areas of Australia. We're talking the 0.001%. this is part of why they don't want nor need lots of tourists. For similar reasons you don't hear about the other really good beaches in Sydney because the local residents don't want it to turn into Bondi and they're all extremely rich.
Same all over Australia except for Melbourne we all got rid of the trams and now want them back. This is a lesson for everybody using Google eventually we're going to want a real lives and entertainment back lol
@@pauliewalnuts6734 Of course the "official" reason was to replace trams with "gliding buses" - gliding buses, hahahaha! Allowing more space on the roads for cars was the real agenda though, as the NRMA lobbying against trams at the time made clear. Now the NRMA complains of Military Road (Lower North Shore) which was once a main tram route, being one of Sydney's most congested roads! You reap what you sow.
Light rail would be a great option - with the high density of the area running from the city down Oxford St to bondi Rd it would do the opposite of the NIMBY crowds fears, increasing pedestrian access.
Bondi Road is likely too steep, I think it reaches 8-9% at some places. On the old tram system, of which the Bondi via Bondi Junction line was one of the last lines to close in 1960 a year before the final lines to La Perouse and Maroubra closed, had to do a full sweeping arc into back streets then into a cutting (which was sold off in the 60-70s) to reach Campbell Parade. There are tram lines in Europe that go on steeper grades but you need more expensive specialist trams designed for it. I think it would be cheaper, more attractive for development and add more capacity to just extend the Eastern Suburbs line.
The Light Rail route going down Oxford Street would be a traffic disaster. Have a look at the impact on small retail shopping and restaurants down Anzac Parade in Kingsford and Kensington. Before construction started on this route through those two adjacent suburbs, pedestrian traffic from UNSW was flourishing, with students and locals frequenting the many restaurants and small businesses throughout the day and night. Drivers could usually find a spot to park close to where they wanted to go before they commenced construction. Once construction started, and even now it is impossible to park, as two and one half lanes have been excised to allow for the Light Rail. Over 90% of once thriving businesses that were there before have "gone to the wall". Oxford Street from Bondi Junction, through Woollahra and Paddington, down to Taylor Square and beyond would suffer a worse fate, as the road is narrower. The only viable solution is to extend the underground Metro from the Bondi Junction rail line, through to Bondi, Clovelly, Coogee, Randwick, Maroubra, Matraville, and finally linking up with the rail again at Mascot.
Thirty years ago, a friend and I decided to drive to Bondi Beach for dinner one Friday night. After spending well over an hour in heavy traffic driving up and down every street from North Bondi to Waverley looking for a parking spot, we gave up and went to Glebe instead. That was 30 years ago. Why the local residents and councils still (after decades) prefer to suffer constant choking traffic to public transport is beyond me.
I worked on the design for the proposed extension from Bondi Junction to Bondi Beach (Civil engineer), in 1996. It was all ready to go, until the residents killed it
@@riceman78 no problem at all. It was all underground.The biggest issue at the time was going under, or over, the massive sewer pipe going to the treatment plant
@@Thebibs hopefully it is reserected. it seems crazy some local nimbys were allowed to block such a project because they don't want people coming to "their" suburb.
The rich Bondi residents don't want day trippers. They don't understand that Bondi Beach is a tourist icon. It is not for their exclusive use. The local businesses need the tourist dollars. The railway could be extended from Bondi station down to the beach. This would reduce congestion on Bondi Rd and limited parking at the beach area.
But... but... but... They are already having trouble keeping the riff-raff out of their nice suburb. Imagine what would happen if it was easier for them to get there. The place would be overrun with all sorts of unwashed plebs!
Rail to Bondi? Heavy Rail? Light Rail? YES! Both... Do the short extension as well as build out the Sydney Light Rail too... It's best to future proof and give people two ways of getting to and from the nation's most popular beach that unclogs the roads yet also attempts to reclaim them from cars too!
It's only the nation's most popular beach cos you made a TV show about it in terms of beaches there's plenty of them ,just as good in Adelaide or anywhere else in the country were you can actually get a car park there and you can actually see the sand cause there's not people everywhere
In the current situation, the quickest way to get to Bondi is to catch a train to Bondi Junction, and then walk. My position is to extend the heavy rail line to the beach. Love your channel.
This is so. Walking. The traffic can be so bad that for me it can take only 10min longer to walk from Dover heights where I live to bondi junction than to catch public transport or even drive at times.
Like your personal experience, I too experienced overcrowding on the 333 bus when I transferred from Bondi Junction. It was a weekday on a sunny day, and the buses *both ways* was full. At the time of this comment, it's Saturday, and the weather is perfect for beach goers, but I can't imagine how many people will wait for the 333 today. In fact, if there is a safe, accessible bike route to the beach, I'd probably take it.
It's incredible that NIMBY's are often devoid of any kind of logic; to be afraid that "undesirables" would come to their neighborhood, as if they don't get there already; to complain about the horrendous traffic and then not want to do anything about it; and then to want to declare the beach for themselves only, as if the businesses in the area would be content with just the NIMBY customers. I'm sure they don't like the heavy traffic and packed buses themselves. Maybe all street improvements, parking improvements, etc should be deprioritized and remain unfunded unless concessions are made on transit improvements.
The easiest and least disruptive plan would be to extend the Heavy rail Bondi junction line underground to Bondi beach. One stop. One station. I’m no engineer so I don’t know how the drop in elevation and space requirements for train station and turnarounds would work. In any case, the opposition to the line from rusted on locals would be fierce as something deemed locally significant would need to be demolished and redeveloped.
The location I would suggest is under Campbell Parade and the existing above ground car park or under the playground of Bondi Beach Public School to account for that one time the carpark was buried by sand after a storm
Many years ago, on my first trip to Sydney, I went to see the much lauded Bondi Beach and came away very disappointed. Nice beach but nothing special, unless you come from a place like England with its cold, windy rock covered coast. Believe me, you can find good beaches like this all over Australia. The best beach is the one close by. 😁
Everybody takes the piss out of Adelaide but there's nothing like sitting on the beach with the sun setting over the water with beaches just as nice. I remember in Queensland skyscrapers having shade across the beaches lol nothing special as you say
The point about Bondi is that it is a nice beach that hasn’t been ruined by overdevelopment within cooee of a global city’s CBD. There are few cities in the world who can boast that.
@@brontewcat You are right of course, but it's mainly huge cities, as Indeed Sydney is. They have done a good job in keeping some good beaches from being overdeveloped. Most Aussie cities have too, but others around the world have failed utterly. (I've seen a few) Maybe we are spoiled for choice, but I wouldn't have it any other way. 😎
@@freeman10000Not close to a major city CBD. Bondi is a pretty nice beach that one can pop down to after work in the CBD. That is what makes it special.
I've started to see the phrase "induced demand" used as a negative against public transport - by those who seem to be unaware it refers to induced *road* use by adding extra roads. It doesn't have any meaning for public transport, which has by definition a far more elastic capacity than roads.
What’s more, induced demand actually makes public transit MORE attractive due to increased frequency allowing you to “turn up and go”. We only see this positive effect start to taper off when you can’t possibly pack the trains any closer, like in my hometown of Hong Kong.
And even then adding another parallel line or quad tracking doesn't have the diminishing returns road expansion has. And there are hardly any conditions that would overwhelm a quad tracked rapid transit line.
Would prefer to also see just the extension of the Eastern Suburbs Line to Bondi Beach too. Any new tunnels from Bondi Junction could include some stubs to extend further towards Randwick/Kingsford in addition to a branch to Bondi Beach. Whilst improving transport within Sydney by adding new or converting existing lines to metro or adding new light rail lines, there shouldn't be any hold back still to extensions to the existing heavy rail network either.
Bondi Road is likely too steep for light rail, I think it reaches 8-9% for sections. On the old tram system, of which the Bondi via Bondi Junction line was one of the last lines to close in 1960 a year before the final lines to La Perouse and Maroubra closed in 1961, the trams had to do a full sweeping arc into back streets then into a cutting (which was sold off in the 60-70s) to reach Campbell Parade. There are tram lines in Europe that go on steeper grades but you need more expensive specialist trams designed for it. I think it would be cheaper, more attractive for development and add more capacity to just extend the Eastern Suburbs line.
6% is doable with existing trains and upgraded brakes... Edmonton's LRT at the University of Alberta used a steeper grade at its southern subway portal to save costs but it came at the cost of having to upgrade ALL the train's existing braking systems had to be upgraded to handle the grade which is 3X as steep as traditional subway exits at a comfortable 2%.
@@stickynorth I'm confused about your point, we are talking here about 3 options: 1. building a new light rail system down Bondi Road which would need to handle 8-9% gradients so would need different trams to the other lines in Sydney 2. building a new light rail system and finding another way down to the Beach, possibly by rebuilding either of the two 20th century alignments which would require property resumptions or a tunnel 3. extending the existing heavy rail tunnel from Bondi Junction, which might also need to be converted to single-deck Metro trains to handle the gradients. Why of these does your comment fit into?
@@carisi2k11 no current trams in service anywhere across Australia could handle 8-9% grades. You would need a special fleet and approvals etc. There are systems that run 9% grades but not *that* many.
Oh yeah. It’s hilarious watching all the Porsche and Maserati driving at 15kph. They also have ensured through rich tantrums that the whole area to Watson’s bay has the worst roads, worst mobile reception and even still dumps raw sewage to the sea because the pump needed to push it over the hill to bondi treatment would be unsightly.
@@suave-rider they can still and do still go to Bondi beach anyway you donkey, they just drive and clog up your roads too as a nice little bonus 😂 I see that money can’t buy brains 😂🤦🏻♂️
Bondi NIMBYs are right up there with Byron Bay NIMBYs. I suspect that given the state of Sydney's rental crisis, the day will come when all of our beach suburbs (including Bondi) will end up with Gold Coast style, 50 story skyscrapers.
Use of all three doors on the bendy buses for entry as well as exit would help. There is an entrenched reluctance to introduce it here, mainly due to unions. We used to have multi door loadings at busy stops but as usual with Sydney, we go backwards regularly. Together with bus priority it would make the trip far more bearable. Most Sydney people are snobby and self interested. Those folks quoted embody the typical attitudes in the eastern half.
Just do the heavy rail to Bondi and then turn South to all the beaches. The area is heavily populated. Thousands of apartments. Lite rail would cause gridlock as the roads aren't that wide. Plus the trams passenger capacity isn't enough. The ones in the city are always packed.
Monorail is cheaper, bcz it's less intrusive and more fun to ride. Gold Coast spent 2.5 billion on just 10kms of light rail, tickets are expensive, it's suited better to tourists rather than transportation for local workers
Light rail up Oxford St to Bondi Beach. Revives Oxford St, fills a transport gap and can connect with a future eastern branch of metro as well as enabling better access to Bondi
Yes i think some kind of rail extension to Bondi Beach would make a lot of sense for Sydney. Also did you know that the T4 eastern suburbs Bondi Junction train line running the other direction actually goes right to Cronulla Beach in the Sutherland shire (The Shire).
We used to have trams to Manly, too. At least here we have the ferry which is an attraction in and of itself (and there's an on-board bar), so I'd say it's a relatively accessibly beach, at least for those venturing in from the city
I live near bondi junction and one of the big obstacles I've noted is that many of the local residents who are very rich are adamant on maintaining their ability to drive everywhere. They refuse to use public transport and fear that allowing it to expand through their neighborhoods will take away their freedom to drive to shops, restaurants, cafes and so forth. I hope that as that generation dies out we will have a new generation of people moving into the neighborhood who will not be so averse to taking any form of public transport.
I have the ability to ride my bike over to bondi beach or into the city along oxford street relatively easily, but still it would bring me great pleasure to see a light rail built along oxford street to reduce the traffic of cars and buses - I have almost been side swiped by buses on oxford st so many times that I am very hesitant to stray from the footpath while I'm on my bike there during peak hour traffic
Great question and video. The busiest bus route certainly highlights the demand. Rail would seem more logical with the existing infrastructure to Bondi Junction. Have the locals changed their views on this connection? It surprises me that they are worried about outsiders in the area. It would seem they have plenty of issues already and this would just make for a way better connection for locals outside weekends and for those pulling sickies.
The tram used to terminate at the Bondi Pavilion, back before they tore up the network. This would be extremely valuable today if they kept it. In Melbourne, the 16 and 96 trams in St Kilda have beach views along The Esplanade. Sydney needs to learn from its younger sibling on how to have proper transport to popular destinations.
Melbourne certainly isn't a city Sydney should be taking public transport tips from. Most of its shopping centres are without heavy rail. And the airport....
the 1960s removal of all the tram lines is so infuriating, especially when you see how iconic they have now become in other cities that have maintained their old tram networks (e.g. lisbon, san francisco, even melbourne). so much of the city was navigable by public transport that now just isn't
There are 100+ beaches in Sydney. Plus even more swimming & waterside dining & recreation options. Why focus on one. Don’t pick a place that is like a peninsula, if you want lots of options for travel & parking. Comments confirm overcrowding, overhyped, not as good as you expected, hate for the eastern suburbs and northern beaches people, queues for everything. One can pick the beach closest to where you live. Or ferry from Circular Quay to Manly.
Light rail along Oxford St makes the most sense, combined with aggressive upzoning along the entire route and out to the beach. (City of Sydney and City of Woollahra and their silly heritage industries can get over themselves.) There should be a station and interchange on that 1960s motorway-style overpass beside Bondi Junction, and the route can continue down to Bondi, before a left hook into the town centre or up to North Bondi
This sounds like a good case for a ferry service in addition to bus services. Ferries would cheap and quick to implement which keeps the state bean counters happy, be minimally disruptive to the existing order of building to keep locals happy (a point that I somewhat support) while increasing public access to the beach to make the general public happy.
Love how increasing the accessibility will fix the issue that there are already too many people on the beach and lifeguards lives are risked having to save the people swimming recklessly. Like it's the residents of the area causing that. When the place is packed, people really think that it's only residents on the sand? There is a reason the 333 is so busy, and it is not residents. Visitors pack Bondi beach, and more visitors will just create less space. Only a finite amount of sand for everyone.
they do already have cycle routes down part of oxford street and it’s nice. I think the best option is extending heavy rail. During that they could also finish woolahra station and fix up the electrification to prepare for future retirement of the tangaras. It would be nice to also have a light rail though. You could have it run continue down the coastline from bondi to coogee beach and meet the L2 at randwick, forming a loop.
Bondi Beach desperately needs more PT options than buses. I live walking distance from the beach and whenever I go for a surf in the late afternoon, the 333 bus along campbell parade up to bondi rd is apocalyptic in the number of passengers.
The saying I learnt was. “Shoot through like a Bondi tram.” I just remember going along a long boulevard with tram rails in the centre and trees between the rails and the road. It was a fast tram
Fun fact: The Syd Einfeld Drive project was yet another half-finished infrastructure project, part of the “F7” freeway to the east. The F7 and F8 were the two least famous freeway corridors, but there was an F8 sign for decades at the bottom of the mountain where the F6 (now M1 to Illawarra) enters Wollongong. The F8 was the “Northern Distributor” but I’m not sure if the F7 was the “Eastern Distributor” since that name was taken for the F6/M1 link extending south from the Cahill Expressway (or Harbour Tunnel).
It has to be LR or Metro and local residents be damned! There are so many people literally trapped on clogged roads all over Sydney that it shouldn’t matter whether local residents want a new form of public transport through their suburb - especially the wealthier ones! These days, we don’t hear anyone in Woolhara complaining about that giant hole in the ground containing nothing but a concrete slab and an electricity substation where the railway station was meant to be, do we? People forget. People move on. But as with virtually everything, a vocal minority always opposes the loudest, long before benefits can be realised. Progress across Sydney has been stifled by it for too long - mostly thanks to decisions being made on the basis of this “opposition” by politicians who don’t want to be voted out at the next election.
agree 100% The short sightedness of NIMBY's does my head in! as does the snowflake politicians (both ALP & LNP) and the loud minority basically setting the way the rest of the population have to live! Too much importance is given to the loud minority in this country!
And extend to La Perouse, then continue onto Kurnell, and connect back to Cronulla (maybe move Cronulla station to where Northies is now) to make a single loop around all the beaches. It would probably be the most tourist friendly line in the world.
As there are already tunnels used for train storage and turn back extending past Bondi Junction station, perhaps it’s time to revisit the proposal to extend the Eastern Suburbs railway from Bondi Junction to Bondi Beach. The original proposed version of the line would have seen a single track extension ending in a station under Bondi Beach park
What about wharf at Bondi for a coastal ferry route connecting places like Ramsgate -> Brighton Le Sands -> Little Bay -> Malabar -> Coogee -> Bronte or Tamarama -> South Bondi -> Circular Quay?
Maybe the Sydney Metro West could be extended from its terminus in the CBD out to Bondi Beach, with a stop at Bondi Junction on route before continuing on to complete the 1967 vision of the Eastern Suburbs line. Although, I wouldn't have any idea about the ground conditions for tunneling in the area
Going back to the 80's and early 90's, residents of The Shire wanted a ban on everyone from the western suburbs from entering their precious lily white skinned town. Unsurprising it's where white supremacists meet up for riots.
I used to live in bondi beach... The most of the older residents who own their properties hate change... And just about everyone who they think doesn't belong there...
Australia's 2nd most famous beach (arguably) is Manly Beach on Sydney's Northern Beaches. There's a lovely 30min ferry ride from the City that takes you there - probably easier to just promote this as Australia's best beach for tourists to visit.
Access to Bondi Beach will improve for people on the North Shore, Northern Suburbs and North West when the Metro station at Martin Place opens. Either extend the line or have dedicated shuttle buses with bus lanes.
I'd say the best option is to extend the existing train line to Bondi Beach and parts of the eastern suburbs not serviced by rail - possibly even convert it to Metro. The line could then run from Bondi Beach to Dover heights, Vaucluse before having another underwater tunnel under the harbour, and continuing onto Manly, Queenscliff, Brookvale, Dee Why, Cromer, Narrabeen, Warriewood and terminate at Mona Vale. NIMBYs oppose public transport because they don't use it - we have the same problem up here on the Gold Coast, where our light rail line is to be extended from Broadbeach to Burleigh heads (The Gold Coast's version of Bondi), and then hopefully from there to the Gold Coast airport via Palm Beach - However, NIMBYs are popping up saying it'll destroy their (and i use the term loosely) "iconic" beachside suburb - As a real GC local who's lived here all my life (36 years), I can say that Palm Beach is far from iconic - it was a no go zone back in the 80s/90s due to a massive drug problem, crime rate and a lower socio-economic status. However it's now being revived and upgraded (much to many locals dismay). It's because of NIMBYism that growing cities are still stuck in the past.
I think light rail would be good despite the gradient…. It’s would at least need 1-2 stations before Bondi beach from Bondi jct…. Or remove parking from Bondi rd and make bus only on the parking lanes from 8am to 7pm at all times…. 333 is decent enough if light rail isn’t popular. I think they should turn the current light rail into a loop (eg run 2 sets of track on Elizabeth st and connect it to the current cq terminus) and have weird branches to Bondi via Oxford st, Burwood or stratty via parra rd and whatnot
Hmm getting to the beach by transit would be great I personally think based on how hard it can be to park your car. Thanks for sharing this video on how this beach could use rapid transit. I guess the thing is too you have to look at is keeping your valuables safe from theft at the beach if you don’t have a car to keep them locked in
It is sad that the Bondi trams ceased running. Near the beach, the trams went on reserved track through a small tunnel and then ended up in the centre of the road at the beach. Maybe they could just run a light rail tram service from Bondi Junction to Bondi Beach, which could at least take some of the crowds from the Route 333 buses.
There is a bus from Bondi to Watson’s Bay, Rose Bay and Double Bay. From there the ferries go from there to the city, north Sydney Circular Quay, Barangaroo and Mosman
The existing rail line should be extended not only to Bondi Beach but all the way to La Perouse, under Botany Bay to Kurnell, and then connect to a new station at Cronulla, forming a giant loop. The junction at Sutherland could become a Y junction, so some service could continue to Waterfall from either direction.
Visitor from Kiwiland here, daughter lives in Randwick, last visit took the train to Bondi Jtn then 333 and the walked the coastal track to Coogee. Just extend the rail to Bondi Beach. Then have a really grand plan. There is now Metro under the harbour and it’s just a bit deeper and longer to go from Manly to Watsons Bay. So why not a grand metro from somewhere up Narabeen (or further north) south to Manly and then Bondi, beach (interchange) then Randwich/T2 Connection then loop around down to the airport then from there go west to eventually get to the western Sydney airport filling in that southern gap and the with the western metro to Parramatta. Wonder how many Billions that would cost.
This is a fascinating topic and one that could also be called corruption. When the Sydney Cross City tunnel was opened, it included a restriction that effectively banned any new public transport initiatives and bus routes north of Oxford Street (between Oxford and the Harbor). It is rumoured that this is part of why the Randwick light rail cuts through narrow residential Surry Hills streets and parkland and not down its traditional alignment along Oxford Street. I cannot find any reference if the restrictions are still in place
The tram removal was the real dumb move - making space for cars? But the buses take the space again? But what’s the point of fighting the NIMBYs with something as expensive as heavy rail when other areas are clamouring for new railways and would take them gladly - restore the light rail instead.
Hello , The first stage should be a rail line from Bondi Junction to South Bondi Beach ( It’s relatively close in distance and should be built underground) . The second stage should be the light rail from Central all the way along Oxford street to North Bondi . No cars should be allowed access ( only residents and for small business ) . Cheers
Here's my suggestions. I am not a Sydneysider, so I cannot give a full idea. Maybe a LRT line to Bondi from Circular Quay and Central, or maybe extending the Juniors Kingsford line back around northward to the beach. Another idea is a metro line all the way from Hunter St to Bondi and Watsons bay, or finally a ferry line around the heads all the way to Bondi, or maybe a direct LRT from Watsons Bay wharf to Bondi and Coogee
Ferries and unprotected Pacific breakers do not pair well. A full heavy rail extension to Bondi Beach would be quickest and cheapest most likely. There’s already a long shunting spur to the East of the Jnctn platform
r here used to be a Bondi tram until that the tracks were ripped up back in the early 60s. now people can enjoy a nice long smelly bus ride to Bondi Beach.
Wow, I thought there was a train to Bondi Beach, with a 3 kilometre walk after getting off the train. Or a short bus trip apparently. I live in a part of NSW where we have a very poor bus service (and no trains or light rail) and you in effect have to walk twice as far as this to get to any shops if you don't want to drive a car (or don't have a car) and you missed the only bus for the next one to two hours. I do wonder if there is any connection in city planning between urban locations that have an abundance of transport options and those that have few (or none), as it all comes out of the same budget.
As desirable as it would be, it is hard to justify the expense of rail to Bondi Beach when there is such a backlog of investment in Western Sydney. But the eastern suburbs does need sorting out: Genuine bus-only lanes, high frequency and easy transfers from Edgecliff to Rose Bay to Watsons Bay; and Bondi Junction to Bondi Beach.
Although it would be extremely costly, I’d like to see them extend the line at Bondi Junction and have an underground station at Bondi Beach and maybe even Vaucluse. Then the line could further extend in a tunnel under Sydney Harbour into the Northern Beaches and service Manly, Dee Why and Warriewood. It could even be branded as ‘The Beaches’ line and would drive up tourist traffic. Plus the Northern Beaches residents would get an additional option to catch the train into the city for work. Of course, you’ll get some of the rich folk protesting it but this railway would service the local economy.
Personally, I think a tram out to Bondi is inevitable. It would make sense to start building it as the first phase from the beach (and maybe Coogee) back to Bondi Junction.
Surely a tram the entire way can’t be a good idea! People would just get at the city and it would be rammed the entire way with people trying to get to the end destination.
I went to Bondi and it was the most disgusting experience ever you couldn't find a car park and just far too many people . I much prefer the beaches in Adelaide with the beautiful sunsets and not everybody posing lol
@@Learntarott I've been to Sydney a few times , used to do busking trips there, back when I was younger but I don't think I'll be back to Sydney , it's just to full on and too expensive now and you can't pick the crazies anymore
We need not only heavy rail to Bondi, we also need to build the windmills offshore of Bondi to power it. Given this electorates commitment to zero emission targets, both projects should receive massive support within the eastern suburbs community.
Oh! Here's an idea! Just extend the heavy rail down the hill! The tunnel already extends somewhat past Bondi Junction and is already quite deep, possibly allowing a better grade down the hill! Also, it's a shame Bondi gets so crowded, cos if it didn't, more people would go there! 🤣
Maybe remove Bondi Beach from its pedestal - acknowledge the plethora of all the wonderful beaches in Sydney / NSW / Australia and maybe the horde of tourist won’t feel so compelled to visit our cliché icon. That might also reduce some of the traffic?
Since tram (aka light rail) is crazy expensive and time consuming to build it would be a prime candidate for a BRT type system with double articulated "buses", like the Van Hool Exqui City 24. With dedicated lanes, traffic signal priority and high frequency (a service every 5 mins) it would be a dream. Could split the distance to two (Circular Quay -> Bondi Junction and Junction -> Bondi Beach). But since it would be too logical, let's build a mono-rail or a toll road to Bondi :))))
Well they got rid of the trams and still didn’t have the new trams to Bondi . Bit like when they started to build a railway to the Northern Beaches then someone complained, thus no train line. The platforms and tunnels are still there and the politicians always announce how those said tunnels will be used in a brand new thing, the last was a water storage facility as well as a shopping precinct
Mate, while I normally agree with you opinions, I was disappointed with the lack of mention of the ferry. As a tourist to Sydney, I just caught the ferry. It got me to Bondi beach without issue. All it would take would be to convert the ferry's to battery and that would be a great solution.
I sympathise with the residents after seeing first hand how bad behaviour spills onto the streets near Bondi with accompanying litter and noise pollution. However, I think a compromise can be found by providing light rail to Bondi, or even an extension of the heavy rail, as long as it serves other beaches and neighbourhoods further south such as Bronte, Cogee and Maroubra, and all these areas need a rail connection, whatever about beaches. In addition, the demand for beaches can be more evenly spread around by providing another badly needed rail connection east of Mosman, to Manly, Balmoral, Curl Curl, Collaroy, Narambeen, Avalon and Palm Beach, again needed by residents, whatever about beachgoers. Some of those beaches are better than Bondi, or just as good. "Sand in yer sandwiches mate, eh?" Isn't life a beach!
They should build a light rail along northern beaches to replace the b1 buses all the way to Avalon and bus to palm beach . Trams should go past the football stadiums, Queens Park, Woolahra, paddington, Bondi, Dover heights Watson bay, rose bay, Bellevue Hill, double bay, Rushcutters bay. The double decker train should run to Bondi, failing that then a tram with its own dedicated track (some of which will need to be underground) should be developed. The density of living is so great now in the east you literally need to be in a car or public transport by 7:15 to get into the city by 8:30 By car you need to leave by 7am. It’s a very challenging commute. However a green hub is also not a great idea, as it would just choke other roads with more traffic (ie that normally travels along Oxford street) and trams would have to stop for traffic going north-south / south - north vehicle traffic
It is planned for 2050 so I have read. Alas more then 100 years ago a station at Manly was also planned and tickets for Manly station had been printed and issued to all Sydney metro stations at the time .
I have been to Bondi beach many times. I always went there on a 333 bus and yes it became crowded by the time it left Bondi Junction. I have met a lot of tourists who wanted to see the beach. I also encounted a lot of people who went to the beach to swim in the water. I didn't see any social problemsthere that was mentioned by a NIMBY. The rich people just want things to remain as is and they don't want to embrace change. I would like the line extended from Bondi Junction to Bondi Beach via Bellevue Hill, Rose Bay, North Bondi, the beach then Bondi and on to Randwick and beyond.
It's a bit like the Chatswood to Epping metro. A few influential NIMBYs prevented an above ground crossing of the Lane Cove river and this added dramatically to the cost of the line as well as resulting in a ridiculous gap between Chatswood and Nth Ryde stations. Re Bondi line, overwhelmingly approved at the time by general public but the Carr Labor government caved into a few outspoken locals. A real sham that. However now that both Labor and the Coalition, in NSW, seem to understand the advantages of mass transport, there may be some hope in the future to resurrect this extension.
I think to focus on one beach is a mistake. First, everyone would be concerned about losing roadway lanes. It would be expensive, but trains should be extended underground to the Bondi pavilion or near it. In addition, lines to Coogee and Maroubia. Spreading the pedestrian traffic among the eastern beaches and not taking up lanes may be the only way to appease residents resistance
A train service to Bondi beach has two problems - terrain and geology. The terrain is the gradient which meant the trams did not follow the current line of the road but wound their way up a more gentle slope. Maybe that will not be an issue with modern trams because trams are the only practical solution to a rail link to Bondi Beach. A railway would have to be underground. The cost of a surface rail corridor would be astronomical and incredibly disruptive, plus the aforementioned gradient problem. Going underground runs into sand in the low ground behind the beach and water seepage due its proximity to the sea. A solution would be another Circular Quay station, which was a response to gradient and seepage issues at that site. Best of luck getting that built. The airport line was built through sand and seepage at a huge cost recouped from the premium fares for using the two airport stations. Such fares would defeat the purpose of a Bondi Beach commuter train. Sand and seepage is why proposals in the Eastern Suburbs by Bradfield and others kept to the sandstone ridges. North Bondi station was mentioned in one plan but that could be the suburb on top of the ridge north of the beach past where Campbell Parade ends. Maybe on Diggers Club Golf Course? Not as convenient as current bus services which deliver people the beachside.
I think the Bondi residents need to get used to the idea that they don't own the beach. They vastly underestimate the international tourist revenue for one - if the residents had sole access to the beach then most of the cafes and restaurants would have close and it'd become a backwater. A heavy rail tunnel to Bondi is the sensible option, with the only other being making a dedicated bus lane all the way from Bondi to the Junction and the city.
The tourist revenue is next to none. People go there, get their photos and get out.
I don't know much about Sydney. But my point would be that when they bought in Bondi it was already a beach that people wanted to go to. I'm not sure why as last time I heard, it had a massive sewage issue, but then again I hear there aren't a lot of accessible beaches in Sydney and the traffic there is a disaster.
Bondi residents do not work in these cafes, and public transport visitors from west do not pay rent to Bondi lords. Refuse.
@@jamesaustralian9829 Sorry but this is not true. It has a global reputation and is definitely a highly visited tourist destination.
@@jayfielding1333at the same time its located in one of the richest areas of Australia. We're talking the 0.001%. this is part of why they don't want nor need lots of tourists.
For similar reasons you don't hear about the other really good beaches in Sydney because the local residents don't want it to turn into Bondi and they're all extremely rich.
Honestly, every time I hear the phase "There used to be trams...." in regards to transport in Sydney I just weep at what we could have had.
And of all the lines they could have saved.
Just have to look at melb to see what u could of had 😂
Same all over Australia except for Melbourne we all got rid of the trams and now want them back. This is a lesson for everybody using Google eventually we're going to want a real lives and entertainment back lol
"more space for cars" bruhhhh the worst reasoning to remove them
@@pauliewalnuts6734 Of course the "official" reason was to replace trams with "gliding buses" - gliding buses, hahahaha! Allowing more space on the roads for cars was the real agenda though, as the NRMA lobbying against trams at the time made clear. Now the NRMA complains of Military Road (Lower North Shore) which was once a main tram route, being one of Sydney's most congested roads! You reap what you sow.
Light rail would be a great option - with the high density of the area running from the city down Oxford St to bondi Rd it would do the opposite of the NIMBY crowds fears, increasing pedestrian access.
Bondi Road is likely too steep, I think it reaches 8-9% at some places. On the old tram system, of which the Bondi via Bondi Junction line was one of the last lines to close in 1960 a year before the final lines to La Perouse and Maroubra closed, had to do a full sweeping arc into back streets then into a cutting (which was sold off in the 60-70s) to reach Campbell Parade.
There are tram lines in Europe that go on steeper grades but you need more expensive specialist trams designed for it. I think it would be cheaper, more attractive for development and add more capacity to just extend the Eastern Suburbs line.
The Light Rail route going down Oxford Street would be a traffic disaster. Have a look at the impact on small retail shopping and restaurants down Anzac Parade in Kingsford and Kensington. Before construction started on this route through those two adjacent suburbs, pedestrian traffic from UNSW was flourishing, with students and locals frequenting the many restaurants and small businesses throughout the day and night. Drivers could usually find a spot to park close to where they wanted to go before they commenced construction. Once construction started, and even now it is impossible to park, as two and one half lanes have been excised to allow for the Light Rail. Over 90% of once thriving businesses that were there before have "gone to the wall". Oxford Street from Bondi Junction, through Woollahra and Paddington, down to Taylor Square and beyond would suffer a worse fate, as the road is narrower. The only viable solution is to extend the underground Metro from the Bondi Junction rail line, through to Bondi, Clovelly, Coogee, Randwick, Maroubra, Matraville, and finally linking up with the rail again at Mascot.
All rail in high density areas should be underground.
I agree with light rail but don't think beach Rd would work, need to look at other alignments.
@@DAEMTAM how does light rail on existing busy roads alleviate traffic concerns? how does light rail work better than buses?
Thirty years ago, a friend and I decided to drive to Bondi Beach for dinner one Friday night. After spending well over an hour in heavy traffic driving up and down every street from North Bondi to Waverley looking for a parking spot, we gave up and went to Glebe instead. That was 30 years ago. Why the local residents and councils still (after decades) prefer to suffer constant choking traffic to public transport is beyond me.
You sound really fun…
I worked on the design for the proposed extension from Bondi Junction to Bondi Beach (Civil engineer), in 1996.
It was all ready to go, until the residents killed it
Would it still be feasible from an engineering perspective to resarect it?
@@riceman78 no problem at all. It was all underground.The biggest issue at the time was going under, or over, the massive sewer pipe going to the treatment plant
@@Thebibs hopefully it is reserected.
it seems crazy some local nimbys were allowed to block such a project because they don't want people coming to "their" suburb.
@@Thebibs rich people don't shit.
B A S E D
The rich Bondi residents don't want day trippers. They don't understand that Bondi Beach is a tourist icon.
It is not for their exclusive use.
The local businesses need the tourist dollars.
The railway could be extended from Bondi station down to the beach.
This would reduce congestion on Bondi Rd and limited parking at the beach area.
bondi residents are too picky and are probably too scared that they'll see an eshay if there was a station at bondi beach
Entitled lot aren't they? lol.
It's like Europeans getting mad at tourists in their city. It's the only thing keeping their countries relevant
bondi residents are actually all 20-30 yo - they are not rich and all they do is surf.
But... but... but... They are already having trouble keeping the riff-raff out of their nice suburb. Imagine what would happen if it was easier for them to get there. The place would be overrun with all sorts of unwashed plebs!
Rail to Bondi? Heavy Rail? Light Rail? YES! Both... Do the short extension as well as build out the Sydney Light Rail too... It's best to future proof and give people two ways of getting to and from the nation's most popular beach that unclogs the roads yet also attempts to reclaim them from cars too!
It's only the nation's most popular beach cos you made a TV show about it in terms of beaches there's plenty of them ,just as good in Adelaide or anywhere else in the country were you can actually get a car park there and you can actually see the sand cause there's not people everywhere
In the current situation, the quickest way to get to Bondi is to catch a train to Bondi Junction, and then walk. My position is to extend the heavy rail line to the beach. Love your channel.
Or a Ferry to Rose Bay and then Uber 👌👌
This is so. Walking. The traffic can be so bad that for me it can take only 10min longer to walk from Dover heights where I live to bondi junction than to catch public transport or even drive at times.
@@JackTaudi Or a ferry to Watsons Bay and then bus
@@cystarkmanI grew up in Dover Heights, Loombah Road, in the ‘60’s so no traffic issues back then 🙏🙏🤣🤣🤣
Like your personal experience, I too experienced overcrowding on the 333 bus when I transferred from Bondi Junction. It was a weekday on a sunny day, and the buses *both ways* was full.
At the time of this comment, it's Saturday, and the weather is perfect for beach goers, but I can't imagine how many people will wait for the 333 today. In fact, if there is a safe, accessible bike route to the beach, I'd probably take it.
It's incredible that NIMBY's are often devoid of any kind of logic; to be afraid that "undesirables" would come to their neighborhood, as if they don't get there already; to complain about the horrendous traffic and then not want to do anything about it; and then to want to declare the beach for themselves only, as if the businesses in the area would be content with just the NIMBY customers. I'm sure they don't like the heavy traffic and packed buses themselves. Maybe all street improvements, parking improvements, etc should be deprioritized and remain unfunded unless concessions are made on transit improvements.
…as if they don’t *live* there already!
lol check out articles on the Gold Coast light rail extensions - NIMBYs everywhere up here
So many people that write so many words but don't say anything
The easiest and least disruptive plan would be to extend the Heavy rail Bondi junction line underground to Bondi beach. One stop. One station.
I’m no engineer so I don’t know how the drop in elevation and space requirements for train station and turnarounds would work. In any case, the opposition to the line from rusted on locals would be fierce as something deemed locally significant would need to be demolished and redeveloped.
The location I would suggest is under Campbell Parade and the existing above ground car park or under the playground of Bondi Beach Public School to account for that one time the carpark was buried by sand after a storm
Then you don't get the major benefit of upzoning along the route. Light rail is likely to be cheaper and deliver more benefit
The best method is heavy rail underground. I think make a loop. Bondi Jct to Bondi Beach, Rose Bay then Edgecliff and in reverse too.
Many years ago, on my first trip to Sydney, I went to see the much lauded Bondi Beach and came away very disappointed. Nice beach but nothing special, unless you come from a place like England with its cold, windy rock covered coast.
Believe me, you can find good beaches like this all over Australia. The best beach is the one close by. 😁
Exactly. Bondi Beach is nice but there are hundreds of beaches in Australia just as nice or better.
Everybody takes the piss out of Adelaide but there's nothing like sitting on the beach with the sun setting over the water with beaches just as nice. I remember in Queensland skyscrapers having shade across the beaches lol nothing special as you say
The point about Bondi is that it is a nice beach that hasn’t been ruined by overdevelopment within cooee of a global city’s CBD. There are few cities in the world who can boast that.
@@brontewcat You are right of course, but it's mainly huge cities, as Indeed Sydney is. They have done a good job in keeping some good beaches from being overdeveloped. Most Aussie cities have too, but others around the world have failed utterly. (I've seen a few) Maybe we are spoiled for choice, but I wouldn't have it any other way. 😎
@@freeman10000Not close to a major city CBD. Bondi is a pretty nice beach that one can pop down to after work in the CBD. That is what makes it special.
I've started to see the phrase "induced demand" used as a negative against public transport - by those who seem to be unaware it refers to induced *road* use by adding extra roads. It doesn't have any meaning for public transport, which has by definition a far more elastic capacity than roads.
Hmm not really, by building better public transport you do induce demand away from roads (thereby reducing congestion) which is a good thing!
What’s more, induced demand actually makes public transit MORE attractive due to increased frequency allowing you to “turn up and go”. We only see this positive effect start to taper off when you can’t possibly pack the trains any closer, like in my hometown of Hong Kong.
And even then adding another parallel line or quad tracking doesn't have the diminishing returns road expansion has.
And there are hardly any conditions that would overwhelm a quad tracked rapid transit line.
And induced demand for public transit is a good thing - it's far less costly to maintain rail than road for the amount of people that it moves.
Induced demand is always a positive. You're allowing people to go where they want to go
Would prefer to also see just the extension of the Eastern Suburbs Line to Bondi Beach too.
Any new tunnels from Bondi Junction could include some stubs to extend further towards Randwick/Kingsford in addition to a branch to Bondi Beach. Whilst improving transport within Sydney by adding new or converting existing lines to metro or adding new light rail lines, there shouldn't be any hold back still to extensions to the existing heavy rail network either.
I've walked to Bondi Beach from Bondi Junction station a couple of times.
Bondi Road is likely too steep for light rail, I think it reaches 8-9% for sections. On the old tram system, of which the Bondi via Bondi Junction line was one of the last lines to close in 1960 a year before the final lines to La Perouse and Maroubra closed in 1961, the trams had to do a full sweeping arc into back streets then into a cutting (which was sold off in the 60-70s) to reach Campbell Parade.
There are tram lines in Europe that go on steeper grades but you need more expensive specialist trams designed for it. I think it would be cheaper, more attractive for development and add more capacity to just extend the Eastern Suburbs line.
6% is doable with existing trains and upgraded brakes... Edmonton's LRT at the University of Alberta used a steeper grade at its southern subway portal to save costs but it came at the cost of having to upgrade ALL the train's existing braking systems had to be upgraded to handle the grade which is 3X as steep as traditional subway exits at a comfortable 2%.
@@stickynorth I'm confused about your point, we are talking here about 3 options:
1. building a new light rail system down Bondi Road which would need to handle 8-9% gradients so would need different trams to the other lines in Sydney
2. building a new light rail system and finding another way down to the Beach, possibly by rebuilding either of the two 20th century alignments which would require property resumptions or a tunnel
3. extending the existing heavy rail tunnel from Bondi Junction, which might also need to be converted to single-deck Metro trains to handle the gradients.
Why of these does your comment fit into?
That was only a problem for the old trams. The new trams shouldn't have an issue with that grade.
@@carisi2k11 no current trams in service anywhere across Australia could handle 8-9% grades. You would need a special fleet and approvals etc. There are systems that run 9% grades but not *that* many.
use tunnelling to get light rail within a 1km if really needed. but i reckon buses are sufficient.
Rich people choking themselves with traffic
When I went to Bondi I didn't see rich people just thousands of large hairy Greek men
Oh yeah. It’s hilarious watching all the Porsche and Maserati driving at 15kph. They also have ensured through rich tantrums that the whole area to Watson’s bay has the worst roads, worst mobile reception and even still dumps raw sewage to the sea because the pump needed to push it over the hill to bondi treatment would be unsightly.
@@cystarkman thats actually true - except not everyone. Im from the east and our family certainly does not have a porsche 😂
We have a continent to live on, yet people want to live in an area the size of Hong Kong or Singapore. Time to spread out.
Def needs a heavy rail extension from bondi junction. A light rail through oxford st would be a great addition as well.
What really annoyed me is when they said that poor people would ruin the vibe in Bondi.
they would. Westie bogans
@@suave-rider they can still and do still go to Bondi beach anyway you donkey, they just drive and clog up your roads too as a nice little bonus 😂 I see that money can’t buy brains 😂🤦🏻♂️
Is it true though? Think of all the Cronulla riots and what went on.
@@suave-rideryeah because public transport is just used by poor people, yucky
Bondi Beach is pretty much like Kings Cross nowadays.
Bondi NIMBYs are right up there with Byron Bay NIMBYs. I suspect that given the state of Sydney's rental crisis, the day will come when all of our beach suburbs (including Bondi) will end up with Gold Coast style, 50 story skyscrapers.
Catch the train to Bondi Junction then catch the 379 to North Bondi and get off at the last stop. Then it's only about a 2 minute walk to the beach
Not even the last stop. Lol
Use of all three doors on the bendy buses for entry as well as exit would help. There is an entrenched reluctance to introduce it here, mainly due to unions. We used to have multi door loadings at busy stops but as usual with Sydney, we go backwards regularly. Together with bus priority it would make the trip far more bearable.
Most Sydney people are snobby and self interested. Those folks quoted embody the typical attitudes in the eastern half.
Unions? Any evidence/articles to support? I believe it is more around fare structure and revenue concerns (users not tapping on)
@@DAEMTAM no its the RTBU who are heavily against it. It's up to roving inspectors to guard revenue, not drivers.
Heavy fare evasion on London bendy buses were a constant issues and lead to their withdrawal.
@@danielsellers8707 reflects the bludgers that are rife in that city.
Just do the heavy rail to Bondi and then turn South to all the beaches. The area is heavily populated. Thousands of apartments. Lite rail would cause gridlock as the roads aren't that wide. Plus the trams passenger capacity isn't enough. The ones in the city are always packed.
Monorail is cheaper, bcz it's less intrusive and more fun to ride. Gold Coast spent 2.5 billion on just 10kms of light rail, tickets are expensive, it's suited better to tourists rather than transportation for local workers
Gold Coast has poor public transport plus with population growth they will have road issues
Light rail up Oxford St to Bondi Beach. Revives Oxford St, fills a transport gap and can connect with a future eastern branch of metro as well as enabling better access to Bondi
genuinely think this is the best bet.
and then from oxford st it can extend to elizabeth st and macquarie st and end up in the circular quay tram station
Yes i think some kind of rail extension to Bondi Beach would make a lot of sense for Sydney. Also did you know that the T4 eastern suburbs Bondi Junction train line running the other direction actually goes right to Cronulla Beach in the Sutherland shire (The Shire).
We used to have trams to Manly, too. At least here we have the ferry which is an attraction in and of itself (and there's an on-board bar), so I'd say it's a relatively accessibly beach, at least for those venturing in from the city
I live near bondi junction and one of the big obstacles I've noted is that many of the local residents who are very rich are adamant on maintaining their ability to drive everywhere. They refuse to use public transport and fear that allowing it to expand through their neighborhoods will take away their freedom to drive to shops, restaurants, cafes and so forth. I hope that as that generation dies out we will have a new generation of people moving into the neighborhood who will not be so averse to taking any form of public transport.
I have the ability to ride my bike over to bondi beach or into the city along oxford street relatively easily, but still it would bring me great pleasure to see a light rail built along oxford street to reduce the traffic of cars and buses - I have almost been side swiped by buses on oxford st so many times that I am very hesitant to stray from the footpath while I'm on my bike there during peak hour traffic
Great question and video. The busiest bus route certainly highlights the demand. Rail would seem more logical with the existing infrastructure to Bondi Junction. Have the locals changed their views on this connection? It surprises me that they are worried about outsiders in the area. It would seem they have plenty of issues already and this would just make for a way better connection for locals outside weekends and for those pulling sickies.
The tram used to terminate at the Bondi Pavilion, back before they tore up the network. This would be extremely valuable today if they kept it. In Melbourne, the 16 and 96 trams in St Kilda have beach views along The Esplanade. Sydney needs to learn from its younger sibling on how to have proper transport to popular destinations.
Melbourne certainly isn't a city Sydney should be taking public transport tips from. Most of its shopping centres are without heavy rail. And the airport....
the 1960s removal of all the tram lines is so infuriating, especially when you see how iconic they have now become in other cities that have maintained their old tram networks (e.g. lisbon, san francisco, even melbourne). so much of the city was navigable by public transport that now just isn't
The Northern Beaches is the same. The locals don’t want their area to be easy to get to.
There are 100+ beaches in Sydney. Plus even more swimming & waterside dining & recreation options. Why focus on one. Don’t pick a place that is like a peninsula, if you want lots of options for travel & parking. Comments confirm overcrowding, overhyped, not as good as you expected, hate for the eastern suburbs and northern beaches people, queues for everything. One can pick the beach closest to where you live. Or ferry from Circular Quay to Manly.
Light rail along Oxford St makes the most sense, combined with aggressive upzoning along the entire route and out to the beach. (City of Sydney and City of Woollahra and their silly heritage industries can get over themselves.) There should be a station and interchange on that 1960s motorway-style overpass beside Bondi Junction, and the route can continue down to Bondi, before a left hook into the town centre or up to North Bondi
This sounds like a good case for a ferry service in addition to bus services. Ferries would cheap and quick to implement which keeps the state bean counters happy, be minimally disruptive to the existing order of building to keep locals happy (a point that I somewhat support) while increasing public access to the beach to make the general public happy.
Love how increasing the accessibility will fix the issue that there are already too many people on the beach and lifeguards lives are risked having to save the people swimming recklessly. Like it's the residents of the area causing that. When the place is packed, people really think that it's only residents on the sand? There is a reason the 333 is so busy, and it is not residents. Visitors pack Bondi beach, and more visitors will just create less space. Only a finite amount of sand for everyone.
they do already have cycle routes down part of oxford street and it’s nice.
I think the best option is extending heavy rail. During that they could also finish woolahra station and fix up the electrification to prepare for future retirement of the tangaras.
It would be nice to also have a light rail though. You could have it run continue down the coastline from bondi to coogee beach and meet the L2 at randwick, forming a loop.
It feels like an eternal track work/buses replacing trains.
Bondi Beach desperately needs more PT options than buses. I live walking distance from the beach and whenever I go for a surf in the late afternoon, the 333 bus along campbell parade up to bondi rd is apocalyptic in the number of passengers.
The saying I learnt was. “Shoot through like a Bondi tram.” I just remember going along a long boulevard with tram rails in the centre and trees between the rails and the road. It was a fast tram
Fun fact: The Syd Einfeld Drive project was yet another half-finished infrastructure project, part of the “F7” freeway to the east. The F7 and F8 were the two least famous freeway corridors, but there was an F8 sign for decades at the bottom of the mountain where the F6 (now M1 to Illawarra) enters Wollongong. The F8 was the “Northern Distributor” but I’m not sure if the F7 was the “Eastern Distributor” since that name was taken for the F6/M1 link extending south from the Cahill Expressway (or Harbour Tunnel).
It has to be LR or Metro and local residents be damned! There are so many people literally trapped on clogged roads all over Sydney that it shouldn’t matter whether local residents want a new form of public transport through their suburb - especially the wealthier ones! These days, we don’t hear anyone in Woolhara complaining about that giant hole in the ground containing nothing but a concrete slab and an electricity substation where the railway station was meant to be, do we? People forget. People move on. But as with virtually everything, a vocal minority always opposes the loudest, long before benefits can be realised. Progress across Sydney has been stifled by it for too long - mostly thanks to decisions being made on the basis of this “opposition” by politicians who don’t want to be voted out at the next election.
agree 100% The short sightedness of NIMBY's does my head in! as does the snowflake politicians (both ALP & LNP) and the loud minority basically setting the way the rest of the population have to live! Too much importance is given to the loud minority in this country!
You forget that this lot of minority can very much influence whether politicians have a job or not.
@@ElanshinIndeed - thus my reference to polies who don’t want to be voted out ;)
Can you make a video on the Australian Gauge Chaos
Honestly the T4 should get extended to Bondi Beach then south towards Port Botany
And extend to La Perouse, then continue onto Kurnell, and connect back to Cronulla (maybe move Cronulla station to where Northies is now) to make a single loop around all the beaches. It would probably be the most tourist friendly line in the world.
As there are already tunnels used for train storage and turn back extending past Bondi Junction station, perhaps it’s time to revisit the proposal to extend the Eastern Suburbs railway from Bondi Junction to Bondi Beach. The original proposed version of the line would have seen a single track extension ending in a station under Bondi Beach park
What about wharf at Bondi for a coastal ferry route connecting places like Ramsgate -> Brighton Le Sands -> Little Bay -> Malabar -> Coogee -> Bronte or Tamarama -> South Bondi -> Circular Quay?
Maybe the Sydney Metro West could be extended from its terminus in the CBD out to Bondi Beach, with a stop at Bondi Junction on route before continuing on to complete the 1967 vision of the Eastern Suburbs line. Although, I wouldn't have any idea about the ground conditions for tunneling in the area
Rich people annoy me lmao
Going back to the 80's and early 90's, residents of The Shire wanted a ban on everyone from the western suburbs from entering their precious lily white skinned town. Unsurprising it's where white supremacists meet up for riots.
same, the gatekeepy grubby piece of shit
That's because you're poor 😂
@@thiagoleobons390How dare you!
@@thiagoleobons390 we found the Bondi resident here
They should extend the rail line to Bondi and also construct a light rail line to the beach so u can have multiple ways of getting there
The cost of a proper rail connection from Bondi Junction to the Beach would be very expensive. Why not re-lay the tram connection?
I used to live in bondi beach... The most of the older residents who own their properties hate change... And just about everyone who they think doesn't belong there...
For the Locals of Bondi; the beach is crown land and is thus owned by everyone in the State !
Hear, Hear
Australia's 2nd most famous beach (arguably) is Manly Beach on Sydney's Northern Beaches. There's a lovely 30min ferry ride from the City that takes you there - probably easier to just promote this as Australia's best beach for tourists to visit.
Access to Bondi Beach will improve for people on the North Shore, Northern Suburbs and North West when the Metro station at Martin Place opens. Either extend the line or have dedicated shuttle buses with bus lanes.
I'd say the best option is to extend the existing train line to Bondi Beach and parts of the eastern suburbs not serviced by rail - possibly even convert it to Metro. The line could then run from Bondi Beach to Dover heights, Vaucluse before having another underwater tunnel under the harbour, and continuing onto Manly, Queenscliff, Brookvale, Dee Why, Cromer, Narrabeen, Warriewood and terminate at Mona Vale.
NIMBYs oppose public transport because they don't use it - we have the same problem up here on the Gold Coast, where our light rail line is to be extended from Broadbeach to Burleigh heads (The Gold Coast's version of Bondi), and then hopefully from there to the Gold Coast airport via Palm Beach - However, NIMBYs are popping up saying it'll destroy their (and i use the term loosely) "iconic" beachside suburb - As a real GC local who's lived here all my life (36 years), I can say that Palm Beach is far from iconic - it was a no go zone back in the 80s/90s due to a massive drug problem, crime rate and a lower socio-economic status. However it's now being revived and upgraded (much to many locals dismay). It's because of NIMBYism that growing cities are still stuck in the past.
I think light rail would be good despite the gradient…. It’s would at least need 1-2 stations before Bondi beach from Bondi jct….
Or remove parking from Bondi rd and make bus only on the parking lanes from 8am to 7pm at all times…. 333 is decent enough if light rail isn’t popular.
I think they should turn the current light rail into a loop (eg run 2 sets of track on Elizabeth st and connect it to the current cq terminus) and have weird branches to Bondi via Oxford st, Burwood or stratty via parra rd and whatnot
Hmm getting to the beach by transit would be great I personally think based on how hard it can be to park your car. Thanks for sharing this video on how this beach could use rapid transit. I guess the thing is too you have to look at is keeping your valuables safe from theft at the beach if you don’t have a car to keep them locked in
It is sad that the Bondi trams ceased running. Near the beach, the trams went on reserved track through a small tunnel and then ended up in the centre of the road at the beach. Maybe they could just run a light rail tram service from Bondi Junction to Bondi Beach, which could at least take some of the crowds from the Route 333 buses.
There is a bus from Bondi to Watson’s Bay, Rose Bay and Double Bay.
From there the ferries go from there to the city, north Sydney Circular Quay, Barangaroo and Mosman
The existing rail line should be extended not only to Bondi Beach but all the way to La Perouse, under Botany Bay to Kurnell, and then connect to a new station at Cronulla, forming a giant loop. The junction at Sutherland could become a Y junction, so some service could continue to Waterfall from either direction.
Visitor from Kiwiland here, daughter lives in Randwick, last visit took the train to Bondi Jtn then 333 and the walked the coastal track to Coogee. Just extend the rail to Bondi Beach. Then have a really grand plan. There is now Metro under the harbour and it’s just a bit deeper and longer to go from Manly to Watsons Bay. So why not a grand metro from somewhere up Narabeen (or further north) south to Manly and then Bondi, beach (interchange) then Randwich/T2 Connection then loop around down to the airport then from there go west to eventually get to the western Sydney airport filling in that southern gap and the with the western metro to Parramatta. Wonder how many Billions that would cost.
Catch the 379 from Bondi Junction and get off in O’Brien Street 2 blocks from the beach. It’s a bit quicker and a bit less crowded
I always thought light rail that runs from Watsons bay south to Bondi and Coogee would be a great tourist and people mover for the eastern suburbs
This is a fascinating topic and one that could also be called corruption. When the Sydney Cross City tunnel was opened, it included a restriction that effectively banned any new public transport initiatives and bus routes north of Oxford Street (between Oxford and the Harbor). It is rumoured that this is part of why the Randwick light rail cuts through narrow residential Surry Hills streets and parkland and not down its traditional alignment along Oxford Street. I cannot find any reference if the restrictions are still in place
The tram removal was the real dumb move - making space for cars? But the buses take the space again? But what’s the point of fighting the NIMBYs with something as expensive as heavy rail when other areas are clamouring for new railways and would take them gladly - restore the light rail instead.
Hello ,
The first stage should be a rail line from Bondi Junction to South Bondi Beach ( It’s relatively close in distance and should be built underground) . The second stage should be the light rail from Central all the way along Oxford street to North Bondi . No cars should be allowed access ( only residents and for small business ) .
Cheers
Here's my suggestions. I am not a Sydneysider, so I cannot give a full idea. Maybe a LRT line to Bondi from Circular Quay and Central, or maybe extending the Juniors Kingsford line back around northward to the beach. Another idea is a metro line all the way from Hunter St to Bondi and Watsons bay, or finally a ferry line around the heads all the way to Bondi, or maybe a direct LRT from Watsons Bay wharf to Bondi and Coogee
Ferries and unprotected Pacific breakers do not pair well. A full heavy rail extension to Bondi Beach would be quickest and cheapest most likely. There’s already a long shunting spur to the East of the Jnctn platform
@@reddust8649 i know about the water, which is why i suggested a lrt from watsons bay, so ferry then transfer to lrt
r here used to be a Bondi tram until that the tracks were ripped up back in the early 60s. now people can enjoy a nice long smelly bus ride to Bondi Beach.
Wow, I thought there was a train to Bondi Beach, with a 3 kilometre walk after getting off the train. Or a short bus trip apparently. I live in a part of NSW where we have a very poor bus service (and no trains or light rail) and you in effect have to walk twice as far as this to get to any shops if you don't want to drive a car (or don't have a car) and you missed the only bus for the next one to two hours. I do wonder if there is any connection in city planning between urban locations that have an abundance of transport options and those that have few (or none), as it all comes out of the same budget.
As desirable as it would be, it is hard to justify the expense of rail to Bondi Beach when there is such a backlog of investment in Western Sydney. But the eastern suburbs does need sorting out: Genuine bus-only lanes, high frequency and easy transfers from Edgecliff to Rose Bay to Watsons Bay; and Bondi Junction to Bondi Beach.
I remember there was a kids book “The tram to Bondi Beach”.
Although it would be extremely costly, I’d like to see them extend the line at Bondi Junction and have an underground station at Bondi Beach and maybe even Vaucluse.
Then the line could further extend in a tunnel under Sydney Harbour into the Northern Beaches and service Manly, Dee Why and Warriewood.
It could even be branded as ‘The Beaches’ line and would drive up tourist traffic. Plus the Northern Beaches residents would get an additional option to catch the train into the city for work.
Of course, you’ll get some of the rich folk protesting it but this railway would service the local economy.
I went there last year and it was really cool
Recommend building a new Sydney Train subway line would be a good idea
Personally, I think a tram out to Bondi is inevitable. It would make sense to start building it as the first phase from the beach (and maybe Coogee) back to Bondi Junction.
I really hope so
Build it and they will come.
I wonder if it would be cheaper to replace Bus 333 with Tram or extend the Bondi Junction train line.
Its only a rail extension of 3.5 kilometres from Bondi Junction rail station.
Love your videos! Keep it up
I think Cronulla is the only Sydney beach with a train station.
Surely a tram the entire way can’t be a good idea! People would just get at the city and it would be rammed the entire way with people trying to get to the end destination.
I went to Bondi and it was the most disgusting experience ever you couldn't find a car park and just far too many people . I much prefer the beaches in Adelaide with the beautiful sunsets and not everybody posing lol
Go to Coogee instead
@@Learntarott I've been to Sydney a few times , used to do busking trips there, back when I was younger but I don't think I'll be back to Sydney , it's just to full on and too expensive now and you can't pick the crazies anymore
We need not only heavy rail to Bondi, we also need to build the windmills offshore of Bondi to power it. Given this electorates commitment to zero emission targets, both projects should receive massive support within the eastern suburbs community.
Oh! Here's an idea! Just extend the heavy rail down the hill! The tunnel already extends somewhat past Bondi Junction and is already quite deep, possibly allowing a better grade down the hill! Also, it's a shame Bondi gets so crowded, cos if it didn't, more people would go there! 🤣
Elevated Light Rail or tunnel for the Heavy Rail?
Either would make an amazing difference
Maybe remove Bondi Beach from its pedestal - acknowledge the plethora of all the wonderful beaches in Sydney / NSW / Australia and maybe the horde of tourist won’t feel so compelled to visit our cliché icon. That might also reduce some of the traffic?
Since tram (aka light rail) is crazy expensive and time consuming to build it would be a prime candidate for a BRT type system with double articulated "buses", like the Van Hool Exqui City 24.
With dedicated lanes, traffic signal priority and high frequency (a service every 5 mins) it would be a dream.
Could split the distance to two (Circular Quay -> Bondi Junction and Junction -> Bondi Beach).
But since it would be too logical, let's build a mono-rail or a toll road to Bondi :))))
Now we need one of these but on the northern beaches train lije
Well they got rid of the trams and still didn’t have the new trams to Bondi . Bit like when they started to build a railway to the Northern Beaches then someone complained, thus no train line.
The platforms and tunnels are still there and the politicians always announce how those said tunnels will be used in a brand new thing, the last was a water storage facility as well as a shopping precinct
Mate, while I normally agree with you opinions, I was disappointed with the lack of mention of the ferry. As a tourist to Sydney, I just caught the ferry. It got me to Bondi beach without issue. All it would take would be to convert the ferry's to battery and that would be a great solution.
There are no ferries to Bondi Beach. Do you mean Manly?
They can’t even build a railway line to maroubra junction so no I don’t think they will extend it to Bondi beach
I sympathise with the residents after seeing first hand how bad behaviour spills onto the streets near Bondi with accompanying litter and noise pollution. However, I think a compromise can be found by providing light rail to Bondi, or even an extension of the heavy rail, as long as it serves other beaches and neighbourhoods further south such as Bronte, Cogee and Maroubra, and all these areas need a rail connection, whatever about beaches. In addition, the demand for beaches can be more evenly spread around by providing another badly needed rail connection east of Mosman, to Manly, Balmoral, Curl Curl, Collaroy, Narambeen, Avalon and Palm Beach, again needed by residents, whatever about beachgoers. Some of those beaches are better than Bondi, or just as good. "Sand in yer sandwiches mate, eh?" Isn't life a beach!
They should build a light rail along northern beaches to replace the b1 buses all the way to Avalon and bus to palm beach .
Trams should go past the football stadiums, Queens Park, Woolahra, paddington, Bondi, Dover heights Watson bay, rose bay, Bellevue Hill, double bay, Rushcutters bay.
The double decker train should run to Bondi, failing that then a tram with its own dedicated track (some of which will need to be underground) should be developed.
The density of living is so great now in the east you literally need to be in a car or public transport by 7:15 to get into the city by 8:30
By car you need to leave by 7am.
It’s a very challenging commute.
However a green hub is also not a great idea, as it would just choke other roads with more traffic (ie that normally travels along Oxford street) and trams would have to stop for traffic going north-south / south - north vehicle traffic
At least, trams carry more people.
It is planned for 2050 so I have read. Alas more then 100 years ago a station at Manly was also planned and tickets for Manly station had been printed and issued to all Sydney metro stations at the time .
Good video mate
I have been to Bondi beach many times. I always went there on a 333 bus and yes it became crowded by the time it left Bondi Junction. I have met a lot of tourists who wanted to see the beach. I also encounted a lot of people who went to the beach to swim in the water. I didn't see any social problemsthere that was mentioned by a NIMBY. The rich people just want things to remain as is and they don't want to embrace change. I would like the line extended from Bondi Junction to Bondi Beach via Bellevue Hill, Rose Bay, North Bondi, the beach then Bondi and on to Randwick and beyond.
It's a bit like the Chatswood to Epping metro. A few influential NIMBYs prevented an above ground crossing of the Lane Cove river and this added dramatically to the cost of the line as well as resulting in a ridiculous gap between Chatswood and Nth Ryde stations. Re Bondi line, overwhelmingly approved at the time by general public but the Carr Labor government caved into a few outspoken locals. A real sham that. However now that both Labor and the Coalition, in NSW, seem to understand the advantages of mass transport, there may be some hope in the future to resurrect this extension.
I think to focus on one beach is a mistake. First, everyone would be concerned about losing roadway lanes. It would be expensive, but trains should be extended underground to the Bondi pavilion or near it. In addition, lines to Coogee and Maroubia. Spreading the pedestrian traffic among the eastern beaches and not taking up lanes may be the only way to appease residents resistance
A train service to Bondi beach has two problems - terrain and geology. The terrain is the gradient which meant the trams did not follow the current line of the road but wound their way up a more gentle slope. Maybe that will not be an issue with modern trams because trams are the only practical solution to a rail link to Bondi Beach. A railway would have to be underground. The cost of a surface rail corridor would be astronomical and incredibly disruptive, plus the aforementioned gradient problem. Going underground runs into sand in the low ground behind the beach and water seepage due its proximity to the sea. A solution would be another Circular Quay station, which was a response to gradient and seepage issues at that site. Best of luck getting that built.
The airport line was built through sand and seepage at a huge cost recouped from the premium fares for using the two airport stations. Such fares would defeat the purpose of a Bondi Beach commuter train. Sand and seepage is why proposals in the Eastern Suburbs by Bradfield and others kept to the sandstone ridges. North Bondi station was mentioned in one plan but that could be the suburb on top of the ridge north of the beach past where Campbell Parade ends. Maybe on Diggers Club Golf Course? Not as convenient as current bus services which deliver people the beachside.