The newest elevated rail in Melbourne is extremely quiet, and beneath the structure you hardly notice if a train is travelling overhead. It has rubberised connections for sound damping. A much older elevaterd steel rail structure in Melbourne (like the Chicago El) is so loud you can't have a conversation beneath it while a train is travelling over it.
@devilpizza123 it is low noise, but Melbourne is the only place on earth where each train needs to honk their horn when departing a station. Or when approaching a railway crossing. Near Brunswick station, you can hear 600 times a train horn a day.
Remember the Liberal anti-skyrail scare campaign we'll a few years back. Was funny to see them put forward their points, when at the time I was living in a house that backed directly onto a sky rail, and it was quieter and nicer than before the grade separation!
Wrong. The truth is the exact opposite. After the Loma Prieta earthquake, Oakland refused to allow the collapsed elevated freeway to be rebuilt where it was (arguing that it divided the neighborhoods). San Francisco tore down the Embarcadero Freeway because it didn't matter that this forced a lot more street traffic --- it allowed developers to build a huge number of apartments/condos at high prices with new Bay views. Elevated ANYTHING is a problem in the world of NIMBYs. SF is willing to spend other people's money to the tune of $3 BILLION per mile to extend Caltrain 2.2 miles UNDERGROUND to the already built Salesforce tower.
@@JoyClinton-i8g Um, actually you're the one who is wrong. Demolishing the already badly earthquake damaged Embarcadero Freeway didn't create "a lot more street traffic" because once car travel stoped being convenient people adjusted their behavior. This isn't just hearsay either, studies of local street traffic back this up with empirical evidence, and this evidence was so strong it influenced plans to remove the central freeway in SF a few years latter. And the glassy condo towers that were built in the lots of land made available by the freeway coming down are expensive because ALL real estate in the Bay Area is expensive. Would you have expected brand new buildings in an expensive cities to be magically cheap for some reason? Also I'm pretty sure what you call "willing to spend other people's money" is what most people would call using tax dollars to build useful infrastructure. Maybe next time you want to make a massive generalization about North American urban planning, try considering that "Freeway removal after a devastating earthquake" is kind of a big outlier situation.
@@JoyClinton-i8g That is one small example. Many parts of the country still resist these changes or are only just now starting to follow suit (~35 years after Loma Prieta) and agreed NIMBYism is always a problem.
Not true, many highways were fought against but we're built anyway because they went through poor neighborhoods. However, in wealthier areas like Beverly Hills that was also supposed to get a freeway, they stopped it. The extension of the 710 freeway in LA to Pasadena was also eventually stopped.
For this reason I cycle in the streets besides the melbourne elevated rail lines because it's so damn cold and windy in the shade under the rail line cycle path.
Rome has a problem building underground metros because they keep running into archaeological findings. Elevated railways don’t tend to interfere with the late Spartacus’ 2000 year-old buried pottery collection.
Line C is in fact mostly above ground and elevated in the outskirts of the city, where there is less concern for the visual impact. Superintendencies would never allow an above ground rail line in the historic city center. So the only solution is actually to go in such depth you’re unlikely to bump into something of historical value.
@@RMTransitI think he was making that comment in jest. Are you seriously saying that would push the current Rome extension above ground through the Roman Forum?
Elevated rails are not a good solution in Rome's historical center, as they will impact on a unique landscape. Moreover, its hilly terrain wouldn't allow an easy design of such an infrastructure. You probably have to go underground in some stretches. To give an example, there is a rail viaduct close to Vatican City, which is between two tunnel sections. It is at Valle Aurelia (literally Aurelia Valley) and has even an elevated rail station which interconnects with an underground metro station. That said, I think that elevated metro could be a solution outside the city center, where there is plenty of space
They say no to elevated rail, but would happily support elevated highway exchanges and ramps... I think it's less about the elevated but more on the it's a train and not for MY car.
I actually really like the "ugly" elevated rail look of NYC & Philadelphia. I'm not going to fight someone putting in a sleek, ultra-modern styled thing because the result is more important to me than the appearance. However, I like my architecture & design to be a bit more chunky, rough, and cluttered (characterful). More Art Deco or Art Nouveau, mixed with functional, industrial styles than Modern or *shudder* Brutalist. I could go my whole life without seeing another giant, smooth, cement surface on a structure. When DC's Metro lines are above ground and sometimes elevated, it's definitely the most pleasant part of the ride, too.
Parts of the Chicago L look practically steampunk! They even modified one of the stations to look like it did in the past, with period advertisements even. Makes the trains, which look more or less like any other current day metro trains, look out of place. I wish the next ones could be styled in a retro turn-of -the-20th-century look, even while being fully modern under the hood.
I honestly think the worst thing about elevated steel railways in NYC (and probably other places, but I've only been to NYC) is the wasteland of pavement under them.
@@ikelom Washington DC has its share, too. Not just the FBI building, which looks like it would have fit in Robocop, but plenty of other examples. Parts of the city are beautiful. Parts look like 1950s Soviet hellscapes.
The Bir Hakeim Bridge in Paris, which carries Metro Line 6, is even classified as a national heritage site! The space under the metro viaduct is featured in romantic scenes from so many movies, and tourists specifically go there to take pictures. You also get one of the best views of the Eiffel Tower and the Seine river from the metro on this bridge. Paris maintains its tradition of beautiful elevated rail, as seen with the recently opened M11 extension, M17, and M18. However, this is now limited to uninhabited areas; as soon as there’s housing nearby, even low-density, trains go underground. GPX is 90% underground, and even M18 is 70% underground-it could have been much less. Cheap and efficient tunnel construction is likely the reason. I also remember Rennes for having one of the best elevated rail designs, quite impressive for a city of its size!
As a transit advocate in Halifax NS, we’ve long known that a subway was never feasible because our province’s terrain is nearly entirely bedrock. As such, the thought of a Skytrain-esque rapid transit system in Halifax has long been a popular idea. Someday, hopefully. Would love to get your thoughts on the best approach for our city someday!
As a Melburnian, when I look at your numerous rail corridors, various spread out town centres (e.g Bedford, Sackville, etc.), I see a perfect recepie for urban rail.
It isn't just a matter of bedrock vs non-bedrock, but also the type of rock and how hard it is. Cut and cover construction is generally cheaper and would be feasible as proven by how the rail corridor was cut into the bedrock. But I'm not sure if a tunnel boring machine would be able to handle that. TBMs tend to work best solid but not ultra-hard rock. In terms of elevated, there's a big difference between elevated structures above a street like some in NYC and Chicago compared to the Vancouver model which is mostly it's own rail and elevated just to avoid conflict at crossing points like streets and other rail lines which may too numerous to grade-separate individually. I'm not a fan of elevated above urban streets. It's different if it's a wide suburban stroad or something where the structure is only above a central median but an urban street can be completely overshadowed.
Purely looking at population numbers, Vancouver was twice the size of current day Halifax when the SkyTrain was built. So hopefully it's in your future, though probably not the near future. I'm not an analyst though, and there might be better cities for comparison!
I would have killed to see something like that in Halifax when I lived there. It would be so well used, the buses are always full in that city, and they're constantly stuck in traffic! The transit system was second to the weather in my two complaints about HRM. Otherwise what a fantastic place.
Tokyo, Japan and Chongqing, China elevated railways are amazing to use. Where I am, Perth, Western Australia, suburban rail lines are being elevated to remove the plethora of road level crossings, and expand and modernise the services.
Sad that it won't be elevated between Beckenham and Gosnells. Also it would be really nice if they had plans for under track infills like in Ginza, Koenji, or Ameyoko. Though public parks aren't bad either
@illiiilli24601 it would be nice to dream the remainder if freo midland and armadale fully sepped so the whole system was...but would rather have a new Bunbury line thanks!
Many of the main lines on Japanese passenger railroads have all been elevated for one reason: getting rid of grade-level crossings. You can clearly see that on the JR West Hanwa Line for quite a distance south of Tennoji Station in Osaka.
Elevated tracks have their advantages, but I hope you can stomach the construction cost per kilometer/mile and the amount of construction needed. For example, Hankyu Electric Railway is still another five years away from finishing the elevated tracks around a rebuilt Awaji Station northeast of central Osaka-a project that was started around 2016!
@@Sacto1654 Elevated tracks obviouly is more expensive then ground tracks, but it got the huge benifit of not crossing road traffic in dense urben area, which ground track would. Of couse we should compare cost to underground tracks instead, which elevated is obviously cheaper.
@@Sacto1654 I think this video is about people whom against elevated train running through a city and want it to be underground instead. In this case, elevated track is cheaper, easier to build one. Ground level through densely built city is out of the question.
The High Line used to be an elevated freight line rather than one for passengers! It was formerly part of the NY Central's West Side Line, which is still in use north of 34th Street as the Empire Connection. At once point, these freight trains used street-level tracks to ship commodities such as coal, dairy products, and beef from the Meatpacking District. Even when people on horses waving flags were hired for safety, it was still too dangerous and so they built an elevated section in the 1930s. Putting a greenway below elevated rail is also what they did in Miami! Miami's Metrorail being elevated makes sense because of both the water table and not having to deal with FDOT (it was also built along the US Route 1 ROW which was formerly Florida East Coast Railway ROW). When the Metrorail first opened in 1984, it opened with the MetroPath or M-Path underneath the tracks, originally a 10.5-mile trail for cyclists that crosses different intersections. This was built along the former the Florida East Coast Railway's main line ROW between Miami and Kendall, which was abandoned in 1972 and purchased by the county in 1979 for Metrorail. As a result of the success of the High Line in NYC, plans were made to revamp the MetroPath in 2014 as a linear park, dubbed the Underline. The first phase was completed in Brickell in 2021, the second phase from Brickell to just south of Vizcaya station was completed in April 2024, and with the third phase completion in 2026, to Dadeland South! Besides being a path for jogging and cyclists, it features things like bike repair stations, exercise equipment, art installations, and will provide access to public transportation to a university, over 20 schools, hospitals, urgent care facilities, major malls and over 10,000 businesses! Just south of Dadeland South, the paved path continues south as the South Dade Trail, all the way to Florida City. The entire route forms a 31-mile corridor! Not to mention, from Dadeland South, there's also the South Dade TransitWay that connects the station with Homestead. The South Dade TransitWay is Miami-Dade County's first BRT, featuring real-time displays, air conditioning in the vestibule, a through lane for buses not stopping at stations, Traffic Signal Preemption, center platform loading, level boarding through all doors, pre-paid fares for speedy access, protection from elements via a vault-like canopy at stations, and WiFi inside stations. Other interesting elevated systems: An urban people mover system that has led to a lot of development is the Punggol "LRT" in Singapore, which has done a lot of futureproofing as the line was built while Punggol is being developed as the Punggol New Town, with two loops, an East Loop and a West Loop which both connect with the Punggol MRT station. So due to limited developments around some stations on the loop at the time, only certain stations opened. Meaning that they built all these stations in 2005 and opened them only when there were developments. In January 2005, all East Loop stations except Oasis (2007) and Damai (2011) opened. In June 2014, West Loop except for Sam Kee (Feb 2016), Teck Lee, Punggol Point (Dec 2016) and Samudera (March 2017) opened. Teck Lee remained closed between 2005 and August 2024, when it finally opened to serve SIT's Punggol campus and Punggol Digital District. In Wuppertal, Germany, they ended up building a suspended monorail because Wuppertal is located in a river valley (that's what Wuppertal means; Wupper Valley), and because of steep slopes, the original towns that now makes up Wuppertal expanded lengthwise (resulting in the thin shape of Wuppertal today). It wasn't suitable to build a tram nor a subway, so as a way to both unify the valley and find a place for transit to solve congestion, they built a suspended monorail that followed the Wupper River. It is the oldest electric elevated railway with hanging cars in the world as it opened in 1901!
like if the city could commission artists to paint murals on the pillars or on the underside of the viaducts, that would improve public perception a lot
There are tons of aesthetically pleasing supports/pillars out there in the world, naysayer's will always find something to complain or criticize about! Infact the basic pillar/support structures are the best canvas for such adventures!
I'm from Hamburg, and our line U3 is one of the best things about the city. It's the oldest subway line in Hamburg and one of the oldest in the world, and it is almost entirely elevated. It's a cheap way to see the entire city, and the section between Landungsbrücken and Rathaus is a must-see for everyone visiting the city. The view from the train over the port, the Speicherstadt and the Elbphilharmonie is magical.
Elevating a rail line can make a huge difference! Which is what happened to the LIRR's Babylon Branch. The Babylon Branch portion of the Montauk Branch is completely grade separated with bridges over all intersecting roadways. NYS Route 231 and the Meadowbrook Parkway are the two exceptions to this, the tracks pass under these roadways. But it wasn't always like this! When it got its start in the 1860s as part of South Side Railroad of Long Island, it was all grade crossings, and this became a problem as more people moved to the south shore, and Sunrise Highway was built along the right-of-way which made the tracks an exceptional hazard, resulting in a ton of political pressure due to the population density and the number of representatives in the area. So a mega project was launched in the 1950s to elevate the stations, with the last station along the branch to be elevated was Massapequa Park in 1980. To supplement Route 27, there is parking to lure people off the highway and different NICE and Suffolk Transit buses serve the stations as well, with the addition of Jones Beach bus service from Freeport making it possible to go to Jones Beach concerts by transit! The former 1885-built Wantagh station building was preserved and moved just north of the station in 1966, becoming the Wantagh Preservation Society's Wantagh Museum which also has a 1912 parlor car donated by the LIRR! As Babylon was the first to get M1s (the M1s were designed with ATO and could handle 100 mph; though ATO was never used in service and trains only achieved 80 mph in service due to track and signal limitations; they also forced the LIRR to upgrade its third-rail supply to 750 V DC) in 1968, this also prompted the LIRR to build high-level platforms (all stations on the electrified portion of the LIRR got high-level platforms between 1966 and 1968; the diesel stations wouldn't get high-level ones until the 1990s)! And doing all of this paid off, as the Babylon Branch has remained the busiest LIRR service, with 11,931,725 in 2023! Like you said, riding a Babylon Branch or Montauk Branch train on the Babylon Branch portion of the Montauk Branch lets me watch the cars go by as the train zooms above, with the train as a reminder to cars that it is the faster option! Elevated trains are not only icons of the cultures of cities like in NYC and Chicago, make riders feel comfortable, can provide wonderful views from the DPM's views of the Detroit River to the Chicago L going over the Chicago River, and great for grade-separation and thus great frequencies without having to build an underground system as mentioned, but elevated trains like monorails can also be an effective solution for tackling geography! Look at Chongqing, China! In Chongqing, Lines 2 and 3 of the Chongqing Rail Transit are monorail lines! Chongqing Rail Transit's system is unique because of the geography of Chongqing being a densely populated but mountainous city, with multiple river valleys. Thus, in such a mountainous place, it makes sense to use a monorail, leveraging the ability to negotiate steep grades and tight curves with rapid transit capacity. Line 3 (and the branch line branded as Konggang line) runs from north to south, linking the districts separated by Chongqing's two main rivers, the Yangtze and Jialing rivers. The line opened in September 2011 and was extended to Jiangbei Airport in December that year. The Konggang branch opened in 2016. Chongqing's Line 2 and 3 monorails are capable of transporting 32,000 passengers per hour per direction, but in 2019, the busiest section of Line 3 reached a peak passenger volume of 37,700 people per hour per direction! Chongqing's Line 2 is famous for Liziba station, as the monorail goes through a 19-story apartment building complex to stop at the station. The station opened in 2005, and the station and building were constructed together as one whole structure! So it's TOD to the max! The station uses specialized noise reduction equipment to isolate station noise from the surrounding residences.
I know they're louder and old and rough on maintenance but I think the look of those turn of the 20th century steel viaducts is SO COOL compared to gray/white concrete pillars. Whatever gets the job done and I appreciate the modern advancements... but aesthetically come on some folks out here appreciate 'em. ; )
Also, if cared for and not overloaded, steel lasts almost forever, and broken parts can easily be swapped compared to concrete which after 5 decades (unless very high grade concrete is used which no politician will pay the 10% total cost increase for) basically needs to be torn down and rebuilt
Honestly, even the ancient steel viaducts with jointed rail and ludicrously tight turns in places like Chicago aren't that loud. Even while crossing the street directly under the tracks in the Loop, a passing box truck is enough to drown out the train right over your head.
Berlin wouldn't be Berlin without its Stadtbahn viaducts with its eclectic assortment of small shops, cafés, cultural venues etc. Close to my apartment, there is even a small theater, a stucco plasterer workshop and a car repair shop under the viaduct.
In the United States people complain of elevated rail assuming it's going to be the trafitional rail attached to timber sleepers mounted on a steel frame. They don't realize that if the areial guideway included a concrete deck and concrete parapets the noise would be very much reduced.
In Chile government decided than any new metro line would be entirely underground. This is a problem where some stations will get up to 4 lines interchanging in different levels deep down. I hope this decision is reverted so we can have elevated metros passing trough the city center of financial district instead of having just deeper metros that requires a lot of time just to take the train
In DC I remember when they were building the silver line right through Tysons, politicians wanted the train to be underground instead of elevated. But it was too expensive so they ended up building the train elevated. I've never heard a single person complain about it after it was built for the same reasons you mentioned in the video. It just comes down to wrong perceptions. Whenever I walk around the elevated sections, I don't even hear the trains being there because the 8 lane stroad surrounding the metro is way louder. I'm glad North America is building more elevated rail nowadays.
As someone who works near it the train is loud as hell. Walk along any street near it and you can certainly hear the trains. It also looks terrible as it blocks any kind of views that you have at ground level or a few stories above it and it created a barrier for getting to the otherside of the street. The intersections are damn near a 1/2 mile apart. And dont get me started on that annoying ass whistle everytime a trains comes at Tysons.
I totally agree that elevated rail is a great rapid transit option. Elevated rail needs a major PR effort on the part of transit agencies. In the US, everyone thinks of the legacy Chicago L and NYC's old elevated lines that darken the street and are loud. Modern elevated lines are quiet and sleek. The pillars and structure can be designed to have artistic elements to blend in or enhance the visual appeal through the city. Their lower costs can help with the buildout of a rail system within a generation. US cities are particularly suitable for elevated rail with their wide boulevards and stroads.
Honestly in Chicago at least the tracks don't really darken the street. Especially in the Loop the metal frames and wood tracks give the look of a tree canopy more than anything else. Light still gets through & the older equipment actually fits in really well aesthetically
No risk of stations flooding like in New York during Hurricane Sandy. Less time wasted getting to the platform with many new subway trains running 3 levels below grade and how depressing that is to do everyday and the time it takes.
Elevated railways however don't perform well as air raid/fallout shelters. A solution would be to build the railway on brick arches, with the space beneath acting as shelters.
@@placeholdername0000 I think it's almost certainly better if you *must* build shelters to do that as a separate project rather than forcing your metro super deep underground.
As a Chicagoan, I love the 'L'. It's central to the city identity, & the most beautiful view of downtown is riding the train over the river in the Loop. Plus you've got spaces like the Low Line & entry into Merchandise Mart which can only exist because of the elevation. I had people visiting tell me how shocked they were that the elevated tracks ran through some of the nicest parts of the city, & I thought it was funny because the elevated portions are a lot prettier than most of the underground stations
Somebody said in a rail forum (specifically talking about Pune) that that has a lot to do with corporators not getting their requisite commissions in underground sections cause it doesn’t affect overground much + is done by big corporations.
Exactly! And any future modification, upgradation etc... will for the most will be economical, quicker, feasible, easy access to heavy equipment's etc... than an underground one! Like anything both elevated & underground have their pros & cons, but elevated has more pros relatively to cons in comparo to underground one!
Chicago is also getting modern quiet elevated rail as well!! :) I live next to one of the new modern viaducts, and I can't hear it unless I listen for it ( which for me is actually unfortunate but *shrug* ) Chicago also has many public spaces below the L, with many more on the way!! :) (but also we already have it on MUCH of the orange line)
Here in Melbourne, NIMBYs screamed as loud as they could to stop elevated rail being built - but once it started being built they realised its actually really nice.
@@babyboomertwerkteam5662 Yep, Rather than build a serious cut and cover that accommodates express and increased services we get these shotty cheap concrete dual lines that guarantee no extra services for the life of the infrastructure. Sure we get no extra services but at least if we have to drive a car we don't have to wait at a level crossing.....MASSIVE win for rail commuters this one....
no, both can definitely destroy neighborhoods in the short term. there are many low-income people who actually oppose rail here in the US because of that but roads will keep expanding in width, while rail (with proper investment), only needs a certain amount of space. Still hard to explain this to someone who is scared they're going to lose their home
Highways rarely destroy neighborhoods (excepting what portion was in the actual path) and often lead to a great deal of highway oriented development Including entirely new neighborhoods.
Note: the High Line in NYC was never a public transit line. It replaced street running freight. Edit: elevated rail won't be noisy IF they invest in continuously welded rail.
Since transit doesn't have to be high speed, elevated light rail or metro trains could have rubber strips on their steel wheels to further reduce noise.
you can't put CWR on the metal elevated structures in NYC because the metal structures thermally expand and contract more than a reinforced concrete structure
Whether the rail is continuously welded or not isn't hugely important these days. Old elevated structures a quite porous steel designs. Modern designs are usually reinforced concrete, in a U shape, which blocks a lot of the sound from passing down to anyone below.
The Yamamote line in Tokyo is almost all above ground and some of the hottest spots in town are in the spaces located directly below the tracks...it's beautiful.
I live in Daegu, South Korea. The city already had 2 subway lines when I first moved here, but about 10 years ago, they completed a third transit line, which is an elevated monorail line. It is a great way to get around, and it is nice to look down and see the traffic that I am avoiding. It has added a lot to the character of the city.
Fun Facts: When the first U-Bahn was build in Berlin in 1902 parts of the (today) U1 and U2 were build on a viaduct. It was planned to build both lines totally overground (It was cheaper then), but in the wealthier parts of the city people were heavily against it. So, only in the both poorer, working class districts Kreuzberg and Prenzlauer Berg the U-Bahn was build overground. The Stadtbahn between Hackescher Markt and Jannowitzbrücke is build on the water filled trench of the 1600 old fortress that was filled up. This piece land was state owned. ;) That is the reason why the Stadtbahn in this part is so curvy.
In Montreal, the elevated REM train made significant noise, in Griffintown, they recorded levels of up to 61 decibels, averaged over a 24-hour period, compared to averages of 56 decibels before the REM was installed.
4:57 This. When I take the subway from Nuremberg to Fürth, the first few stops below ground are a nuisance. But when it pops out at Eberhardshof, it feels like the trip is almost done - because the unpleasant part is over. Although it is always the same view, riding on an elevated line with a great view on the city or even on ground level with natural light coming into the carriage is just way more of a pleasant experience than looking at black tunnel walls.
In Chicago if you’re more than one block away from the el you can’t hear it. It’s only loud if you’re right next to it at the EXACT it’s going by. It’s a great way to see the city. And most stations have stuff (shops, restaurants, and parks) around them.
I live very close to both the Astoria elevated line AND the Amtrak viaduct that heads over the Hell Gate bridge, both built in the early 1910s. You can HEAR the differences in loudness of the open-floor plate-girders of both the elevated subway and certain portions of the Amtrak viaduct, and CONTRAST it to the quiteness of the concrete sections of the Amtrak viaduct. Just stand under the 29th Street or 33rd Street arches, where the Amtrak viaduct transitions from concrete to steel! It goes from simply hearing the pantograph against the catenary wires to this huge rumble that can be heard from blocks away. So yes, you can have a quiet elevated train! From what I understand, building closed-concrete floor elevateds had been a consideration during the elevated construction blitz by the IRT and BMT, but that was more expensive so the cheaper open-floor was used instead. Think the more expensive closed-floor concrete Flushing line section over Queens Boulevard versus the open-floor section over Roosevelt Avenue. Big difference at 48th Street, where the transition happens! The noise argument was also used against extending the Astoria line to LaGuardia Airport. But it is very silly, considering that new apartments and housing has, and is, being built right next to the existing line. People are okay living next to the noisy elevated train! And you can use a concrete viaduct instead!
Singapore is kind of falling out of love with elevated rail. It used to be preferred because it was cheaper, but is not a first choice and now has to be retrofitted with noise and privacy barriers because of resident complaints. It is also quite disruptive to road traffic during construction as well. The "smart" privacy screen on the LRT have been broken for ages and so they are permanently on, so passengers can't look what's really outside apart from the front. The latest line it is building is also forced to go uni-directional because there was simply no space to build the necessary switching track above ground, so passengers have to switch at certain stops if they don't want to take the scenic industrial loop to get to town.
I live in the Philadelphia area and a few years ago SEPTA our transit agency rebuilt our old elevated transit line over Market Street in west Philadelphia. They replaced the old all steel structure with modern concrete right of way. The sound level from the trains above dropped after the work was done. So modern concrete structures with sound absorbing material for the track area really reduces the noise. I also agree it is better above ground because you can see where you are compared to underground.
The Honolulu Skyline (everyone I know just calls it "Rail" or "TheRail", our bus system is literally called TheBus) has great views of the island. It's becoming a tourist attraction here. I commute riding my bike to and from it, and while my morning commute is just after 5am, I usually see at least some tourists checking it out on my trip home.
As a native Chicagoan, the "L" or elevated, was always my favorite way of travel around ChiTown. While my love for the "L" primarily stems from a love of rapid transit infrastructure and civil engineering, using it was definitely a way to see the city and its neighborhoods in ways that were absolutely impossible in a subway tunnel. Granted, the noise can be a bit unnerving, especially if you happen to live right next to one of these lines. The four track el structure that carries the North-South main line (Red, Brown and Purple lines) is so close to people's apartments that they can almost (notice, I said "ALMOST") reach out of their second floor bedroom or kitchen windows and touch the tracks! But you know, a lot of those folks have been in those apartments for years and have gotten quite used to the noise. These are the same people who find it quite convenient to have an el line and stations so close by.
As a Berlin resident I absolutely love our elevated subway lines. Those routes are my favorite parts of the city. And in the Gleisdreieck Park they are perfectly integrated into the cityscape. I could hang out there all day and watch the trains go by. Absolutely love it. And of course i love riding them.
This video revived my memories for the city of Hamamatsu, Japan. The city has a local rail named Enshu-Tetsudo operating through the north to south of the whole city, and it was elevated on 2012. The elevation brought many benefits for the city: Re-route the rail line with more efficient route to Hamamatsu-Station(better access to JR&Shinkansen station), literally obliterated traffic jams in central Hamamatsu by removing rail-crossings and adding lanes in roads from the freed-up-space, moreover better frequent service by expanding lanes inside the elevated stations for more passing sidings.
Flying train maybe sounds like a funny term, but my city's first elevated train line is still commonly referred to as "the flying train" even though tons of elevated metro has been built since.
Elevated rail being ‘not too loud’ depends on good design and maintenance choices : integrated sound barriers, vibration absorbing rail fixation, avoiding points and switches, motor and magnetic braking, perfect rail and wheel calibration and maintenance, …
Kuala Lumpur is a city that you'd be well rewarded to focus on.I've spent more than enough time in Bangkok to be blown away by how transformative the Skytrain there is, but in KL it's another fantastic enabler of city living. More than BKK, KL a city of many many separate areas, but it's a much newer city. The areas that make up the city are almost all smaller towns that have been recently absorbed into the conurbation. This means that (unlike BKK), there's no consistent grid of any kind. As well, it's full of topography that has many small river valleys and drainage channels that have meant routes from area to area are rarely straight for more than ten blocks, and always following an old waterway, where BKK has mostly straight canals (klongs). Add to this, KL is an incredibly vertical city,4th highest in the world I understand; so you get extremely high density concentrations from 40+ storey residential building clusters, that require something with the ability to move very large numbers of people. Almost every mall (and there are dozens and dozens in the city) is connected directly or nearly so by one of the elevated train lines, which include a monorail system. Lots of elevated walkways that get you across the busy streets, that also connect to transit. It's not all good, and KL is an interesting case study in how transit falls behind roads when the pace of development is very fast, and underplanned. They've built 26 new highways in the urban areas in the past 30 or so years, and car use has exploded. But the trains are well used, and the level of traffic congestion here is never close to as bad as Bangkok. it's safe, it's clean, it's very efficient, and it easily makes its way through all the non-standard urban features that I've mentioned. But it does some to be losing to the car lobby....
6:32 Also modern rail viaducts often have noise reduction in their design. For example, the viaduct MTR West Rail Line and Ma On Shan Line (now Tuen Ma Line) are designed with various soundproofing technologies, from the specially design trackbed to soundproof material in the viaduct wall. This ensures the train can sneak through high-density areas without causing noise pollution in the neighborhood.
growing up in a city with a very good subway system, I always enjoyed it when the train popped out into the elevated portion. vibes are definitely not the best reason to build elevated rail vs underground, but if you can have nice views and save money on construction then that is a win win to me!
I agree with all the points made here, but it’s also important to acknowledge that the oldest systems do in fact make an incredible amount of noise. (Was just in Chicago and, much as I love the place, there’s no denying that the L’s steel structures are very loud.) I think one of the biggest barriers to shifting public sentiment on elevated rail is the fact that the old and loud systems that do exist are also among the most visible/famous. We may know about newer + better solutions, but many people only have these older + louder solutions to go off of. Upgrading the loudest elevated infrastructure in Chicago, New York, Melbourne, etc. would probably help reduce some of the pushback from people who only see these louder examples when they think about elevated rail lines. Glad Chicago’s started to do this with some of the red and purple lines; hope this can be applied to more of the system, and that other systems around the would will consider prioritizing similar projects where feasible!
5:32 absolutely agree and I've actually done just this. Just to ride the skytrain for 2 hrs and go in one big circle* around the entire city(s) and going to very single skytrain stop (at least as it was back in 2015, still haven't got to see the Evergreen Extension) *was a lot easier with the old alignment of Expo and Millennium I'm from Toronto but skytrain will always hold a special spot for me, based on the same tech as the Scarborough Rt, makes me nostalgic, thibk of what Toronto could have had, and it has such incredible views. Lookong forwards to the Ontario Line here at home. Specifically, the elevated portions across the Don valley and Don mills :)
I recently completed a metro system (underground) in a Minecraft Anarchy server that regularly has about 50-70 players. Am very tempted to make an RMTransit style video for it lol. I can do an almost halfway decent imitation of your voice. If I ever make the vid, I will be sure to send you a link.
This was a great video Reese! I also loved the views and architecture of the U6 in Vienna! You can’t get the same feeling of zooming past the skyline during autumn and spring, and seeing such amazing views!
And it is exactly the reason why I love Vancouver more than ANY other city in the world!! Aside from the fact that it IS beautiful, it’s the SkyTrain that elevated the beauty of the city!!
5:00 On the Red Line in Chicago, heading north from the Loop, I can feel the air get fresher and easier to breathe when we leave the tunnel and go above ground. Not only do you get to see outside with a great view, but the air exchange unit is exchanging with fresh outdoor air. Well, as fresh air as any large metropolis gets, that is.
There’s a weekly market (with everything from farm fresh groceries, spices and street food to flea market stands and services like knife sharpening) in Hamburg that is located entirely under the elevated tracks of two U3 stations (Eppendorfer Baum & Hoheluftbrücke). It stretches the whole way between the two stations and it‘s a really cool example for public use of the spaces created by elevated rail (It‘s called Isemarkt and open tuesdays and fridays if I‘m not mistaken and I would strongly advise everyone that visits Hamburg to go there, even if it‘s just for walking beneath the tracks without buying anything).
Bro im so proud of you for losing weight. I didnt even recognize you on the bouldering clips you posted on Insta, really inspired me to make a change. Way to go! 💪
We so needed this defense of elevated rail during the REM de l'est debate here in Montreal. I'm still bitter that this was cancelled due to a complete misunderstanding of what elevated rail is.
Elevated rail is seen badly because the old Els in New York, Philadelphia and Chicago are loud and very bulky. But today they can be built in a better fashion.
The Sky Train in Bangkok is fantastic. It also provides elevated walkways to make it easier to walk around with direct connections to neighbouring buildings.
25 years ago when they built the system, there were some complaints about elevated trains being ugly. But the traffic is so bad most people agreed that ugly viaduct is infinitely better than traffic. Now it has become a symbol of modernity. Especially where it runs through landmarks. Like Victory monument or Siam, a downtown area. Fun facts, there is a posh private school that opposes the elevated rail line and station in front of the school. So as a compromise, they put a tall privacy fence to stop people from seeing inside the school and removed the station entrance in front of the school. All as per school requested. And now, 25 years later, said school starts complaining why they don't have entrance or easy access to the train station.
@@trainluvrAll elevated walkways (locally called "Skywalk") are free and always been. That is, if you don't walk through the station paid zone (which is blocked by the fare gate). If someone charged you for a skywalk usage, you either walk through the station fare zone. Or it's a scammer. If someone walks up to you and asks for a fee, that's 1000% scam. Fun fact, a lot of skywalks were funded/built by private and donated to public. As it encourages more foot traffic to their business. Charging fee for usage seems counter intuitive.
I absolutely loveeee elevated rail lines ,my homwtown kolkata is building a tonne of it and orangle line goes through my old neighourhood ,i still miss my home and it also is a delayed project but i cant wait to go back to ride the metro once its finished ❤❤
I love the Chicago L because it is elevated and you don't lose cell signal or sight of where you are on it, wayfinding upon getting off of it is super easy unlike with a subway, I've been to NYC a couple times and always get lost upon exiting a subway station cause wayfinding is hard with them.
I think another underrated benefit is the time to access the station from the street. In DC and Boston in particular, many stations have extremely deep tunnels, so you have to take 2 or three extremely long elevators just to get to the platform, essentially adding a few minutes to each trip, making it that much slower compared to other modes.
Fun fact : Paris old above-ground metro lines were actually more expensive to build than digging underground. They built outside only because the ground was full and to deal with elevation issues. It was a different time.
I agree with you mostly. This can also work in connecting mainline rail to other mainline rail in semi suburban places such as the London conurbations where transport is a bus service to get anywhere near a mainline train service that is 5 miles away, yet take upwards of 30 mins to get to using public transport. Even driving is 15 mins plus.
There is context to pay attention to. Elevated BART was great for most of the system, but underground was better for some parts of the system like Market St BART has metro frequencies (every 3 minutes) with long trains that have unique wheel profiles that squeal extra loud. BART is at 100+ decibels which causes permanent damage with longer than 30 minutes of exposure. Hence some sections are underground and some are elevated with an air gap
All of my friends in East Toronto/Scarborough all agree that they feel like an excited 5 year old again when they ride the portion of Line 2 over the Don Valley and get to see the nice views. I also felt similar feelings on the exposed portion west of Dundas West (High Park, Keele). It's actually kind of absurd that we don't reserve the nice views for the trains and instead are adamant about putting them underground, even when that turns a $4B 5 year project into a $20B 15+ year disaster with no opening date that's having entire other projects start and end in the meantime.
What I love about the elevated rail is that it can be a free roof for anything underneath it. You can have businesses, housing or pedestrian and bike paths under the viaduct, taking advantage of this fact, if you think more broadly during the design process.
Thank you Reece! Also one point that I want to point out is that the High Speed Metros that you mentioned are however, overwhelmingly underground, even through very remote areas, which isn’t good engineering practices.
Thank you Reece for an extremely well presented video. Your arguments are VERY strong. However, there is still going to be huge opposition to any attempt to 'drive' an elevated railway through an existing densely built area. It is a totally different matter if the elevated line is built BEFORE everything else - before the house, offices, hospitals etc are built!
You got a point, most of nyc elevated lines were build through far less densely populated areas before their support triggered building booms.(Examples: The Jamcia Line/Broadway El(J/Z), The Flushing Line(7), Fulton Street Line past Grant Ave(A) Or were built over existing surface Railroad right of ways as direct replacements to old commuter lines and street cars services.. (Examples: The West End Line(D), Mrtyle Ave Line(M), The Brighton Beach Line(B&Q).The Far Rockaway and Rockaway Park Lines(A&S)
There are so many super wide roads/highways in north american cities you can take a lane or two from to build a elevated railway. Building elevated railways in existing cities should be possible. Getting rid of car lanes actually reduces traffic noise.
@@thijmstickman8349 For many North American cities you have a valid point. But I do not think your point is applicable in other parts of the world - certainly not in Europe.
I've always just LOVED how elevated trains looked. Always wanted an apartment right next to one so I occasionally see and hear the train go by, kind of like in Reece's older videos.
Hmm. Back in the day, sometime in '48 my father took me for a ride on the olde Third Ave. El in NYC, they were planning to take it down and he wanted a last ride himself. I remember wood coaches, open vestibules, the sounds of the air brake compressors. It was a weekend so that meant that all trains were locals every four blocks up to 125 st was a stop. Third Av was very far from Fifth Ave. even though only two blocks away. The lacey structure shook and swayed as trains rode by and some of the turns were pretty sharp. A little strange looking directly into people's apartments, almost nobody had AC then so most of the windows were open and some folks were dressed 'casually'. I must have been hell to paint this structure. I wish I could have rode on the steam locos that powered trains before the el was electrified. The tracks raised up for stations so the station house and rider stairways were under the tracks, this gave the trains some help in stopping for the stations and more help when they departed. The express tracks in the middle climbed even higher going over the center platform of the station. To a seven year old this looked like a carnival ride rollercoaster. Given the age of the system and technology available this looks far better than the ugly 'monorail' in Seattle. I still like riding the 'loop' in Chicago, much better than Chicago's subways. By the way, there's nothing wrong with 'lowrise' neighborhoods in cities, these buildings are way cheaper to construct and lead to a more people friendly neighborhood than highrise condos where nobody knows his neighbors. Such condos are not family friendly. Howcome nobody complains about the structures of the LasVegas monorail, they kinda suck too.
People blamed the Elevated for making the Bowery in New York a dump. Well, I've been to the Bowery, long after the Elevated was gone, and it's still a dump even without the Elevated. The Elevateds of New York and Chicago would be not bad if only they actually got proper maintenance. In Philadelphia, they in fact did rebuild the Market-Frankford Elevated, but I haven't seen it personally since then; however, from photos on Wikipedia I can see that some stations were rebuilt much nicer than others (including the aspect of degree of protection from the weather).
Point well taken about the maintenance, overhaul and even modernisation of the el structures. Even as I'm typing this comment, a huge stretch of the 4-track mainline on the north side Chicago Red Line is being totally rebuilt with new reinforced concrete supports, concrete track guideways that support two tracks a piece, newly constructed stations, along with new signal communication equipment. My guestimate is that this entire modernisation project will be completed within the next two years.
Dresden, the city where I live, has exclusively elevated rail. They built it about 100 years ago when it became clear that grade seperation would be necessary.
The elevated metro viaducts in India cities have an added advantage. It provides two wheeler riders some respite from the burning sun in summer and some shade during the relentless monsoon rains. Also, the pillars have numbers and serve as sign posts and location markers in cities that have confusing street signs.
The elevated areas of the Blue/A line south of DT are kinda depressing and dull but the elevated sections north are really awesome to see, along with the E to the West. If/when they ever grade separate the Long Beach section of the Blue I'd love if it was elevated rather than underground. We have such wide arterial streets, they should have BRTs or elevated rail way more often.
And in denser areas urban gondolas can go above many obstacles with lower costs. It could complement the elevated trains for short trips in dense areas while elevated trains can make longer rides with higher speed for far away suburbs.
Living in the Junction Triangle neighbourhood, the new elevated GO crossings have improved the neighbourhood so much. They look nice, are quiet, avoid conflicting with traffic, are clearly safer, and open up new crossings. I really hope Toronto continues in this direction.
The "Skytrain" system in Metro Vancouver is definitely the backbone of public transit here, moving hundreds of thousands of people every day. It's got underground sections, but that is often a matter of necessity. Canada Line is obviously mostly underground. The problem we have here is how little actual heavy rail track we have around, no longer any capacity for long-rail commuter rail, because the true rail right of ways are few or got torn up post WW2. We used to have something called the Interurban, which went further than much of what exists today. Can you imagine if they upgraded the West Coast Express to go to the far communities north of the Fraser and built another counterpart to it south of the Fraser, to the far ends of the Fraser Valley? (That would have been better than a Langley Skytrain, which IMHO should have been sent south towards Newton / S. Surrey instead.)
While I agree with many of the ideas I don’t feel like Reece did a good job acknowledging the real downsides elevated rail has. Noise and loss of sunlight on street level are two tradeoffs that are just part of the approach and need to be taken into account. I just recently visited Hamburg with it’s very cool elevated portions, especially on the U3 and the S-Bahn Verbindungsbahn and they are great both as a passenger and too look at trains gliding through the city. Walking under them is still quite dark and dingy and pretty much wasted space. I actually much prefer the approach of London, Berlin or Tokio with shops being built under the rail line, because it grounds the infrastructure at street level and uses the space a lot better. We also have some green embankments where I live and they act as a sort of linear wilderness reserves, which makes them very pleasant to walk along, because as long as there isn’t a train it’s quite calm and quiet. I get that Reece and I just have very different tastes in this regard. But I feel like the „modern“ concrete lines are much uglier then the steel structures in London, Hamburg or Chicago. They are quiter, which is important, but they are exactly as modern now, as elevated highways were seen as modern 60 years ago. Looks cool in concept art, not so great anymore after 40 years in real life.
@@eechauch5522 Reece seems to have a thing about elevated railways whereby that are all pros and no cons. If it was that simple, they would get built everywhere.
Rarely, if I ever do I hear the pros of elevated railway outside of the cost effectiveness. Pointing out the that greenways, public spaces for leisure and so on reminded me of the opportunities possible due to the this style of infrastructure development. And yes! I agree that a large part of the the disdain for elevated rail is based on it's portrayal in media as the backdrop of crime ridden areas. I don't think I've seen it portrayed in any other way, unfortunately. I enjoyed this It was hella inspirational.
I think ground rails divide cities much more then elevated rail Where i came from the raillines are mostly the end of semi urban cities people would rather buy property on the opposite side of the city then the other side of the rail line which is much closer to city centre
I just got back from Japan yesterday, and I gotta say, the shops and neighborhoods under/around the Yamanote line in Ueno and Akihabara were some of my favorite. It was such a vibrant community! I'm originally from the inner city of Chicago and live in Honolulu now so, yeah, this video is right up my alley lol. There is something kinda wonderous of an elevated train line snaking through skyscrapers that I will always fine appealing.
The newest elevated rail in Melbourne is extremely quiet, and beneath the structure you hardly notice if a train is travelling overhead. It has rubberised connections for sound damping. A much older elevaterd steel rail structure in Melbourne (like the Chicago El) is so loud you can't have a conversation beneath it while a train is travelling over it.
Are you talking about Parkdale or E Pakenham ?
@@CPTE5069 any of the new ones constructed since Caulfield to Dandenong skyrail has been high quality, low noise.
Chicago L
@devilpizza123 it is low noise, but Melbourne is the only place on earth where each train needs to honk their horn when departing a station. Or when approaching a railway crossing. Near Brunswick station, you can hear 600 times a train horn a day.
Remember the Liberal anti-skyrail scare campaign we'll a few years back. Was funny to see them put forward their points, when at the time I was living in a house that backed directly onto a sky rail, and it was quieter and nicer than before the grade separation!
I like how in North america, elevated highways are totally fine, but the moment you basically put a train on something similar it causes controversy.
Wrong. The truth is the exact opposite. After the Loma Prieta earthquake, Oakland refused to allow the collapsed elevated freeway to be rebuilt where it was (arguing that it divided the neighborhoods). San Francisco tore down the Embarcadero Freeway because it didn't matter that this forced a lot more street traffic --- it allowed developers to build a huge number of apartments/condos at high prices with new Bay views. Elevated ANYTHING is a problem in the world of NIMBYs. SF is willing to spend other people's money to the tune of $3 BILLION per mile to extend Caltrain 2.2 miles UNDERGROUND to the already built Salesforce tower.
@@JoyClinton-i8g Um, actually you're the one who is wrong. Demolishing the already badly earthquake damaged Embarcadero Freeway didn't create "a lot more street traffic" because once car travel stoped being convenient people adjusted their behavior. This isn't just hearsay either, studies of local street traffic back this up with empirical evidence, and this evidence was so strong it influenced plans to remove the central freeway in SF a few years latter. And the glassy condo towers that were built in the lots of land made available by the freeway coming down are expensive because ALL real estate in the Bay Area is expensive. Would you have expected brand new buildings in an expensive cities to be magically cheap for some reason? Also I'm pretty sure what you call "willing to spend other people's money" is what most people would call using tax dollars to build useful infrastructure. Maybe next time you want to make a massive generalization about North American urban planning, try considering that "Freeway removal after a devastating earthquake" is kind of a big outlier situation.
@@JoyClinton-i8g That is one small example. Many parts of the country still resist these changes or are only just now starting to follow suit (~35 years after Loma Prieta) and agreed NIMBYism is always a problem.
@@JoyClinton-i8ganecdotal evidence
Not true, many highways were fought against but we're built anyway because they went through poor neighborhoods. However, in wealthier areas like Beverly Hills that was also supposed to get a freeway, they stopped it.
The extension of the 710 freeway in LA to Pasadena was also eventually stopped.
The best part about elevated rail: You can build cycling paths underneath that are then sheltered from (most of) the rain!
Theres actually a project to do this in Berlin under one of the old U-Bahn lines!
And pathways help provide the last mile between transit and destination.
Nice gentle gradients for easy cycling!
For this reason I cycle in the streets besides the melbourne elevated rail lines because it's so damn cold and windy in the shade under the rail line cycle path.
You can also use existing highways as ROW for elevated rail lines, that is a big way to cut cost of ROW and get systems built faster
Rome has a problem building underground metros because they keep running into archaeological findings. Elevated railways don’t tend to interfere with the late Spartacus’ 2000 year-old buried pottery collection.
that's a good point
It probably would help, though you do still need to build foundations!
Line C is in fact mostly above ground and elevated in the outskirts of the city, where there is less concern for the visual impact. Superintendencies would never allow an above ground rail line in the historic city center. So the only solution is actually to go in such depth you’re unlikely to bump into something of historical value.
@@RMTransitI think he was making that comment in jest. Are you seriously saying that would push the current Rome extension above ground through the Roman Forum?
Elevated rails are not a good solution in Rome's historical center, as they will impact on a unique landscape. Moreover, its hilly terrain wouldn't allow an easy design of such an infrastructure. You probably have to go underground in some stretches.
To give an example, there is a rail viaduct close to Vatican City, which is between two tunnel sections. It is at Valle Aurelia (literally Aurelia Valley) and has even an elevated rail station which interconnects with an underground metro station.
That said, I think that elevated metro could be a solution outside the city center, where there is plenty of space
They say no to elevated rail, but would happily support elevated highway exchanges and ramps... I think it's less about the elevated but more on the it's a train and not for MY car.
Excellent point.
elevated highways arent in city centers
elevated highways arent in city centers
@@skurinski wrong
Actually, they don't support that either. Have you ever tried to build an elevated highway through a neighborhood?
I actually really like the "ugly" elevated rail look of NYC & Philadelphia. I'm not going to fight someone putting in a sleek, ultra-modern styled thing because the result is more important to me than the appearance. However, I like my architecture & design to be a bit more chunky, rough, and cluttered (characterful). More Art Deco or Art Nouveau, mixed with functional, industrial styles than Modern or *shudder* Brutalist. I could go my whole life without seeing another giant, smooth, cement surface on a structure.
When DC's Metro lines are above ground and sometimes elevated, it's definitely the most pleasant part of the ride, too.
I always think concrete support structures could look better if they were tiled in mosaics or something.
Parts of the Chicago L look practically steampunk! They even modified one of the stations to look like it did in the past, with period advertisements even. Makes the trains, which look more or less like any other current day metro trains, look out of place. I wish the next ones could be styled in a retro turn-of -the-20th-century look, even while being fully modern under the hood.
I honestly think the worst thing about elevated steel railways in NYC (and probably other places, but I've only been to NYC) is the wasteland of pavement under them.
You shudder from the word Brutalist... *cries in Montreal*
@@ikelom Washington DC has its share, too. Not just the FBI building, which looks like it would have fit in Robocop, but plenty of other examples. Parts of the city are beautiful. Parts look like 1950s Soviet hellscapes.
The Bir Hakeim Bridge in Paris, which carries Metro Line 6, is even classified as a national heritage site! The space under the metro viaduct is featured in romantic scenes from so many movies, and tourists specifically go there to take pictures. You also get one of the best views of the Eiffel Tower and the Seine river from the metro on this bridge.
Paris maintains its tradition of beautiful elevated rail, as seen with the recently opened M11 extension, M17, and M18. However, this is now limited to uninhabited areas; as soon as there’s housing nearby, even low-density, trains go underground. GPX is 90% underground, and even M18 is 70% underground-it could have been much less. Cheap and efficient tunnel construction is likely the reason.
I also remember Rennes for having one of the best elevated rail designs, quite impressive for a city of its size!
I think that Rennes has the nicest-looking elevated guideways.
And also inception! Rennes does have a gorgeous viaduct, the pillars remind me of trees!
As a transit advocate in Halifax NS, we’ve long known that a subway was never feasible because our province’s terrain is nearly entirely bedrock. As such, the thought of a Skytrain-esque rapid transit system in Halifax has long been a popular idea. Someday, hopefully. Would love to get your thoughts on the best approach for our city someday!
As a Melburnian, when I look at your numerous rail corridors, various spread out town centres (e.g Bedford, Sackville, etc.), I see a perfect recepie for urban rail.
Wouldn't bedrock be easier to tunnel trough? Like you can blast trough it with TNT without to much extra support needed.?
It isn't just a matter of bedrock vs non-bedrock, but also the type of rock and how hard it is. Cut and cover construction is generally cheaper and would be feasible as proven by how the rail corridor was cut into the bedrock. But I'm not sure if a tunnel boring machine would be able to handle that. TBMs tend to work best solid but not ultra-hard rock.
In terms of elevated, there's a big difference between elevated structures above a street like some in NYC and Chicago compared to the Vancouver model which is mostly it's own rail and elevated just to avoid conflict at crossing points like streets and other rail lines which may too numerous to grade-separate individually. I'm not a fan of elevated above urban streets. It's different if it's a wide suburban stroad or something where the structure is only above a central median but an urban street can be completely overshadowed.
Purely looking at population numbers, Vancouver was twice the size of current day Halifax when the SkyTrain was built. So hopefully it's in your future, though probably not the near future. I'm not an analyst though, and there might be better cities for comparison!
I would have killed to see something like that in Halifax when I lived there. It would be so well used, the buses are always full in that city, and they're constantly stuck in traffic! The transit system was second to the weather in my two complaints about HRM. Otherwise what a fantastic place.
Tokyo, Japan and Chongqing, China elevated railways are amazing to use. Where I am, Perth, Western Australia, suburban rail lines are being elevated to remove the plethora of road level crossings, and expand and modernise the services.
The Armadale elevated rail line will look amazing when finished.
Sad that it won't be elevated between Beckenham and Gosnells.
Also it would be really nice if they had plans for under track infills like in Ginza, Koenji, or Ameyoko. Though public parks aren't bad either
Ala Melbourne! And yes, so many great elevated rails in Asia!
@illiiilli24601 it would be nice to dream the remainder if freo midland and armadale fully sepped so the whole system was...but would rather have a new Bunbury line thanks!
Many of the main lines on Japanese passenger railroads have all been elevated for one reason: getting rid of grade-level crossings. You can clearly see that on the JR West Hanwa Line for quite a distance south of Tennoji Station in Osaka.
"Elevated trains destroy neighborhoods"
Tokyo: *utter confusion*
Elevated tracks have their advantages, but I hope you can stomach the construction cost per kilometer/mile and the amount of construction needed. For example, Hankyu Electric Railway is still another five years away from finishing the elevated tracks around a rebuilt Awaji Station northeast of central Osaka-a project that was started around 2016!
@@Sacto1654 Elevated tracks obviouly is more expensive then ground tracks, but it got the huge benifit of not crossing road traffic in dense urben area, which ground track would. Of couse we should compare cost to underground tracks instead, which elevated is obviously cheaper.
Unless, you need to build a sound-proof elevated train.
@@Sacto1654 I think this video is about people whom against elevated train running through a city and want it to be underground instead.
In this case, elevated track is cheaper, easier to build one. Ground level through densely built city is out of the question.
What/who is the origin of the quote in the first place? (As a Vancouverite, I'm also very fond of elevated trains)
The High Line used to be an elevated freight line rather than one for passengers! It was formerly part of the NY Central's West Side Line, which is still in use north of 34th Street as the Empire Connection. At once point, these freight trains used street-level tracks to ship commodities such as coal, dairy products, and beef from the Meatpacking District. Even when people on horses waving flags were hired for safety, it was still too dangerous and so they built an elevated section in the 1930s. Putting a greenway below elevated rail is also what they did in Miami! Miami's Metrorail being elevated makes sense because of both the water table and not having to deal with FDOT (it was also built along the US Route 1 ROW which was formerly Florida East Coast Railway ROW). When the Metrorail first opened in 1984, it opened with the MetroPath or M-Path underneath the tracks, originally a 10.5-mile trail for cyclists that crosses different intersections. This was built along the former the Florida East Coast Railway's main line ROW between Miami and Kendall, which was abandoned in 1972 and purchased by the county in 1979 for Metrorail. As a result of the success of the High Line in NYC, plans were made to revamp the MetroPath in 2014 as a linear park, dubbed the Underline. The first phase was completed in Brickell in 2021, the second phase from Brickell to just south of Vizcaya station was completed in April 2024, and with the third phase completion in 2026, to Dadeland South! Besides being a path for jogging and cyclists, it features things like bike repair stations, exercise equipment, art installations, and will provide access to public transportation to a university, over 20 schools, hospitals, urgent care facilities, major malls and over 10,000 businesses! Just south of Dadeland South, the paved path continues south as the South Dade Trail, all the way to Florida City. The entire route forms a 31-mile corridor! Not to mention, from Dadeland South, there's also the South Dade TransitWay that connects the station with Homestead. The South Dade TransitWay is Miami-Dade County's first BRT, featuring real-time displays, air conditioning in the vestibule, a through lane for buses not stopping at stations, Traffic Signal Preemption, center platform loading, level boarding through all doors, pre-paid fares for speedy access, protection from elements via a vault-like canopy at stations, and WiFi inside stations.
Other interesting elevated systems: An urban people mover system that has led to a lot of development is the Punggol "LRT" in Singapore, which has done a lot of futureproofing as the line was built while Punggol is being developed as the Punggol New Town, with two loops, an East Loop and a West Loop which both connect with the Punggol MRT station. So due to limited developments around some stations on the loop at the time, only certain stations opened. Meaning that they built all these stations in 2005 and opened them only when there were developments. In January 2005, all East Loop stations except Oasis (2007) and Damai (2011) opened. In June 2014, West Loop except for Sam Kee (Feb 2016), Teck Lee, Punggol Point (Dec 2016) and Samudera (March 2017) opened. Teck Lee remained closed between 2005 and August 2024, when it finally opened to serve SIT's Punggol campus and Punggol Digital District. In Wuppertal, Germany, they ended up building a suspended monorail because Wuppertal is located in a river valley (that's what Wuppertal means; Wupper Valley), and because of steep slopes, the original towns that now makes up Wuppertal expanded lengthwise (resulting in the thin shape of Wuppertal today). It wasn't suitable to build a tram nor a subway, so as a way to both unify the valley and find a place for transit to solve congestion, they built a suspended monorail that followed the Wupper River. It is the oldest electric elevated railway with hanging cars in the world as it opened in 1901!
Just need to make the supports more aesthetically pleasing. That would sway most of the “it ruins the neighborhood” crowd.
I like the Paris ones shown in the video!
like if the city could commission artists to paint murals on the pillars or on the underside of the viaducts, that would improve public perception a lot
Idk, while it helps I am not sure it will help most of the nimbys
@@RMTransitNo, the decisions are usually made by experienced professionals like Engineers and Urban Planners.
There are tons of aesthetically pleasing supports/pillars out there in the world, naysayer's will always find something to complain or criticize about! Infact the basic pillar/support structures are the best canvas for such adventures!
I'm from Hamburg, and our line U3 is one of the best things about the city. It's the oldest subway line in Hamburg and one of the oldest in the world, and it is almost entirely elevated. It's a cheap way to see the entire city, and the section between Landungsbrücken and Rathaus is a must-see for everyone visiting the city. The view from the train over the port, the Speicherstadt and the Elbphilharmonie is magical.
I like S and U line mix in Hamburg that cross in some station and all converge in Central station.
@@SeleneSalvatore I have no idea why ALL OF THEM serve the central station... It's way too busy and overcrowded
Elevating a rail line can make a huge difference! Which is what happened to the LIRR's Babylon Branch. The Babylon Branch portion of the Montauk Branch is completely grade separated with bridges over all intersecting roadways. NYS Route 231 and the Meadowbrook Parkway are the two exceptions to this, the tracks pass under these roadways. But it wasn't always like this! When it got its start in the 1860s as part of South Side Railroad of Long Island, it was all grade crossings, and this became a problem as more people moved to the south shore, and Sunrise Highway was built along the right-of-way which made the tracks an exceptional hazard, resulting in a ton of political pressure due to the population density and the number of representatives in the area. So a mega project was launched in the 1950s to elevate the stations, with the last station along the branch to be elevated was Massapequa Park in 1980. To supplement Route 27, there is parking to lure people off the highway and different NICE and Suffolk Transit buses serve the stations as well, with the addition of Jones Beach bus service from Freeport making it possible to go to Jones Beach concerts by transit! The former 1885-built Wantagh station building was preserved and moved just north of the station in 1966, becoming the Wantagh Preservation Society's Wantagh Museum which also has a 1912 parlor car donated by the LIRR! As Babylon was the first to get M1s (the M1s were designed with ATO and could handle 100 mph; though ATO was never used in service and trains only achieved 80 mph in service due to track and signal limitations; they also forced the LIRR to upgrade its third-rail supply to 750 V DC) in 1968, this also prompted the LIRR to build high-level platforms (all stations on the electrified portion of the LIRR got high-level platforms between 1966 and 1968; the diesel stations wouldn't get high-level ones until the 1990s)! And doing all of this paid off, as the Babylon Branch has remained the busiest LIRR service, with 11,931,725 in 2023! Like you said, riding a Babylon Branch or Montauk Branch train on the Babylon Branch portion of the Montauk Branch lets me watch the cars go by as the train zooms above, with the train as a reminder to cars that it is the faster option!
Elevated trains are not only icons of the cultures of cities like in NYC and Chicago, make riders feel comfortable, can provide wonderful views from the DPM's views of the Detroit River to the Chicago L going over the Chicago River, and great for grade-separation and thus great frequencies without having to build an underground system as mentioned, but elevated trains like monorails can also be an effective solution for tackling geography! Look at Chongqing, China! In Chongqing, Lines 2 and 3 of the Chongqing Rail Transit are monorail lines! Chongqing Rail Transit's system is unique because of the geography of Chongqing being a densely populated but mountainous city, with multiple river valleys. Thus, in such a mountainous place, it makes sense to use a monorail, leveraging the ability to negotiate steep grades and tight curves with rapid transit capacity. Line 3 (and the branch line branded as Konggang line) runs from north to south, linking the districts separated by Chongqing's two main rivers, the Yangtze and Jialing rivers. The line opened in September 2011 and was extended to Jiangbei Airport in December that year. The Konggang branch opened in 2016. Chongqing's Line 2 and 3 monorails are capable of transporting 32,000 passengers per hour per direction, but in 2019, the busiest section of Line 3 reached a peak passenger volume of 37,700 people per hour per direction! Chongqing's Line 2 is famous for Liziba station, as the monorail goes through a 19-story apartment building complex to stop at the station. The station opened in 2005, and the station and building were constructed together as one whole structure! So it's TOD to the max! The station uses specialized noise reduction equipment to isolate station noise from the surrounding residences.
I know they're louder and old and rough on maintenance but I think the look of those turn of the 20th century steel viaducts is SO COOL compared to gray/white concrete pillars. Whatever gets the job done and I appreciate the modern advancements... but aesthetically come on some folks out here appreciate 'em. ; )
Also, if cared for and not overloaded, steel lasts almost forever, and broken parts can easily be swapped compared to concrete which after 5 decades (unless very high grade concrete is used which no politician will pay the 10% total cost increase for) basically needs to be torn down and rebuilt
Honestly, even the ancient steel viaducts with jointed rail and ludicrously tight turns in places like Chicago aren't that loud. Even while crossing the street directly under the tracks in the Loop, a passing box truck is enough to drown out the train right over your head.
BART must be doing something _really_ wrong then; I can hear it blocks away.
Berlin wouldn't be Berlin without its Stadtbahn viaducts with its eclectic assortment of small shops, cafés, cultural venues etc. Close to my apartment, there is even a small theater, a stucco plasterer workshop and a car repair shop under the viaduct.
In the United States people complain of elevated rail assuming it's going to be the trafitional rail attached to timber sleepers mounted on a steel frame. They don't realize that if the areial guideway included a concrete deck and concrete parapets the noise would be very much reduced.
In Chile government decided than any new metro line would be entirely underground. This is a problem where some stations will get up to 4 lines interchanging in different levels deep down. I hope this decision is reverted so we can have elevated metros passing trough the city center of financial district instead of having just deeper metros that requires a lot of time just to take the train
In DC I remember when they were building the silver line right through Tysons, politicians wanted the train to be underground instead of elevated. But it was too expensive so they ended up building the train elevated. I've never heard a single person complain about it after it was built for the same reasons you mentioned in the video. It just comes down to wrong perceptions. Whenever I walk around the elevated sections, I don't even hear the trains being there because the 8 lane stroad surrounding the metro is way louder. I'm glad North America is building more elevated rail nowadays.
As someone who works near it the train is loud as hell. Walk along any street near it and you can certainly hear the trains. It also looks terrible as it blocks any kind of views that you have at ground level or a few stories above it and it created a barrier for getting to the otherside of the street. The intersections are damn near a 1/2 mile apart.
And dont get me started on that annoying ass whistle everytime a trains comes at Tysons.
Hey at Disney Epcot they have an elevated train looping into the center of the park to give you views of the pavilions
I totally agree that elevated rail is a great rapid transit option. Elevated rail needs a major PR effort on the part of transit agencies. In the US, everyone thinks of the legacy Chicago L and NYC's old elevated lines that darken the street and are loud. Modern elevated lines are quiet and sleek. The pillars and structure can be designed to have artistic elements to blend in or enhance the visual appeal through the city. Their lower costs can help with the buildout of a rail system within a generation. US cities are particularly suitable for elevated rail with their wide boulevards and stroads.
Honestly in Chicago at least the tracks don't really darken the street. Especially in the Loop the metal frames and wood tracks give the look of a tree canopy more than anything else. Light still gets through & the older equipment actually fits in really well aesthetically
No risk of stations flooding like in New York during Hurricane Sandy. Less time wasted getting to the platform with many new subway trains running 3 levels below grade and how depressing that is to do everyday and the time it takes.
Elevated railways however don't perform well as air raid/fallout shelters. A solution would be to build the railway on brick arches, with the space beneath acting as shelters.
@@placeholdername0000 I think it's almost certainly better if you *must* build shelters to do that as a separate project rather than forcing your metro super deep underground.
@@RMTransit
Actually its probably best to do both.
El's have thier issues
3 levels below Crossrail is running 30m below ground and many lines in Moscow even 60 to 80 meters below street level.
@@RMTransit Or just build arches that support your railway, as was done in London.
Love the new arrow highlights in footage. India has a very great elevated standardization of metros. Also offering very scenic views of many cities.
As a Chicagoan, I love the 'L'. It's central to the city identity, & the most beautiful view of downtown is riding the train over the river in the Loop. Plus you've got spaces like the Low Line & entry into Merchandise Mart which can only exist because of the elevation. I had people visiting tell me how shocked they were that the elevated tracks ran through some of the nicest parts of the city, & I thought it was funny because the elevated portions are a lot prettier than most of the underground stations
I can't believe this is even a discussion
In Indian cities our default metro option is elevated
Underground takes too long to build😆
Yeah, its quite interesting!
@@RMTransitand oversimplifying the issue.
Somebody said in a rail forum (specifically talking about Pune) that that has a lot to do with corporators not getting their requisite commissions in underground sections cause it doesn’t affect overground much + is done by big corporations.
turns out not digging through thousands of tons of dirt saves time.
Exactly! And any future modification, upgradation etc... will for the most will be economical, quicker, feasible, easy access to heavy equipment's etc... than an underground one! Like anything both elevated & underground have their pros & cons, but elevated has more pros relatively to cons in comparo to underground one!
Chicago is also getting modern quiet elevated rail as well!! :) I live next to one of the new modern viaducts, and I can't hear it unless I listen for it ( which for me is actually unfortunate but *shrug* ) Chicago also has many public spaces below the L, with many more on the way!! :) (but also we already have it on MUCH of the orange line)
We've had it for decades already with the orange line
What destroys neighborhoods is highways, not public transit infrastructure!
Here in Melbourne, NIMBYs screamed as loud as they could to stop elevated rail being built - but once it started being built they realised its actually really nice.
@@babyboomertwerkteam5662 Yep, Rather than build a serious cut and cover that accommodates express and increased services we get these shotty cheap concrete dual lines that guarantee no extra services for the life of the infrastructure. Sure we get no extra services but at least if we have to drive a car we don't have to wait at a level crossing.....MASSIVE win for rail commuters this one....
no, both can definitely destroy neighborhoods in the short term. there are many low-income people who actually oppose rail here in the US because of that
but roads will keep expanding in width, while rail (with proper investment), only needs a certain amount of space. Still hard to explain this to someone who is scared they're going to lose their home
Highways rarely destroy neighborhoods (excepting what portion was in the actual path) and often lead to a great deal of highway oriented development Including entirely new neighborhoods.
Note: the High Line in NYC was never a public transit line. It replaced street running freight.
Edit: elevated rail won't be noisy IF they invest in continuously welded rail.
Since transit doesn't have to be high speed, elevated light rail or metro trains could have rubber strips on their steel wheels to further reduce noise.
Yes, it was an elevated freight line. Still an elevated rail line, and arguably more unpleasant than passenger.
you can't put CWR on the metal elevated structures in NYC because the metal structures thermally expand and contract more than a reinforced concrete structure
"investing in rail" - spot the mistake (at least for the US)
Whether the rail is continuously welded or not isn't hugely important these days. Old elevated structures a quite porous steel designs. Modern designs are usually reinforced concrete, in a U shape, which blocks a lot of the sound from passing down to anyone below.
The Yamamote line in Tokyo is almost all above ground and some of the hottest spots in town are in the spaces located directly below the tracks...it's beautiful.
I loved the elevated trains, especially in my neighborhood in Queens, new York aka the 7 train
Thanks for shining light on Elevated Rail for more people.
I live in Daegu, South Korea. The city already had 2 subway lines when I first moved here, but about 10 years ago, they completed a third transit line, which is an elevated monorail line. It is a great way to get around, and it is nice to look down and see the traffic that I am avoiding. It has added a lot to the character of the city.
Fun Facts: When the first U-Bahn was build in Berlin in 1902 parts of the (today) U1 and U2 were build on a viaduct. It was planned to build both lines totally overground (It was cheaper then), but in the wealthier parts of the city people were heavily against it. So, only in the both poorer, working class districts Kreuzberg and Prenzlauer Berg the U-Bahn was build overground.
The Stadtbahn between Hackescher Markt and Jannowitzbrücke is build on the water filled trench of the 1600 old fortress that was filled up. This piece land was state owned. ;) That is the reason why the Stadtbahn in this part is so curvy.
In Montreal, the elevated REM train made significant noise, in Griffintown, they recorded levels of up to 61 decibels, averaged over a 24-hour period, compared to averages of 56 decibels before the REM was installed.
I vacationed in Melbourne in August 2023. The transit system is so amazing and very easy to learn.
4:57 This. When I take the subway from Nuremberg to Fürth, the first few stops below ground are a nuisance. But when it pops out at Eberhardshof, it feels like the trip is almost done - because the unpleasant part is over. Although it is always the same view, riding on an elevated line with a great view on the city or even on ground level with natural light coming into the carriage is just way more of a pleasant experience than looking at black tunnel walls.
you’ve made a good point and i’m convinced. great job 👍🏾
In Chicago if you’re more than one block away from the el you can’t hear it. It’s only loud if you’re right next to it at the EXACT it’s going by. It’s a great way to see the city. And most stations have stuff (shops, restaurants, and parks) around them.
I live very close to both the Astoria elevated line AND the Amtrak viaduct that heads over the Hell Gate bridge, both built in the early 1910s. You can HEAR the differences in loudness of the open-floor plate-girders of both the elevated subway and certain portions of the Amtrak viaduct, and CONTRAST it to the quiteness of the concrete sections of the Amtrak viaduct. Just stand under the 29th Street or 33rd Street arches, where the Amtrak viaduct transitions from concrete to steel! It goes from simply hearing the pantograph against the catenary wires to this huge rumble that can be heard from blocks away. So yes, you can have a quiet elevated train!
From what I understand, building closed-concrete floor elevateds had been a consideration during the elevated construction blitz by the IRT and BMT, but that was more expensive so the cheaper open-floor was used instead. Think the more expensive closed-floor concrete Flushing line section over Queens Boulevard versus the open-floor section over Roosevelt Avenue. Big difference at 48th Street, where the transition happens!
The noise argument was also used against extending the Astoria line to LaGuardia Airport. But it is very silly, considering that new apartments and housing has, and is, being built right next to the existing line. People are okay living next to the noisy elevated train! And you can use a concrete viaduct instead!
Also its next to . . . AN AIRPORT
Singapore is kind of falling out of love with elevated rail. It used to be preferred because it was cheaper, but is not a first choice and now has to be retrofitted with noise and privacy barriers because of resident complaints. It is also quite disruptive to road traffic during construction as well. The "smart" privacy screen on the LRT have been broken for ages and so they are permanently on, so passengers can't look what's really outside apart from the front. The latest line it is building is also forced to go uni-directional because there was simply no space to build the necessary switching track above ground, so passengers have to switch at certain stops if they don't want to take the scenic industrial loop to get to town.
I live in the Philadelphia area and a few years ago SEPTA our transit agency rebuilt our old elevated transit line over Market Street in west Philadelphia. They replaced the old all steel structure with modern concrete right of way. The sound level from the trains above dropped after the work was done. So modern concrete structures with sound absorbing material for the track area really reduces the noise. I also agree it is better above ground because you can see where you are compared to underground.
The Honolulu Skyline (everyone I know just calls it "Rail" or "TheRail", our bus system is literally called TheBus) has great views of the island. It's becoming a tourist attraction here. I commute riding my bike to and from it, and while my morning commute is just after 5am, I usually see at least some tourists checking it out on my trip home.
good to hear its getting some use! i heard its had a difficult start.
As a native Chicagoan, the "L" or elevated, was always my favorite way of travel around ChiTown. While my love for the "L" primarily stems from a love of rapid transit infrastructure and civil engineering, using it was definitely a way to see the city and its neighborhoods in ways that were absolutely impossible in a subway tunnel. Granted, the noise can be a bit unnerving, especially if you happen to live right next to one of these lines. The four track el structure that carries the North-South main line (Red, Brown and Purple lines) is so close to people's apartments that they can almost (notice, I said "ALMOST") reach out of their second floor bedroom or kitchen windows and touch the tracks! But you know, a lot of those folks have been in those apartments for years and have gotten quite used to the noise. These are the same people who find it quite convenient to have an el line and stations so close by.
As a Berlin resident I absolutely love our elevated subway lines. Those routes are my favorite parts of the city. And in the Gleisdreieck Park they are perfectly integrated into the cityscape. I could hang out there all day and watch the trains go by. Absolutely love it. And of course i love riding them.
This video revived my memories for the city of Hamamatsu, Japan. The city has a local rail named Enshu-Tetsudo operating through the north to south of the whole city, and it was elevated on 2012. The elevation brought many benefits for the city: Re-route the rail line with more efficient route to Hamamatsu-Station(better access to JR&Shinkansen station), literally obliterated traffic jams in central Hamamatsu by removing rail-crossings and adding lanes in roads from the freed-up-space, moreover better frequent service by expanding lanes inside the elevated stations for more passing sidings.
Flying train maybe sounds like a funny term, but my city's first elevated train line is still commonly referred to as "the flying train" even though tons of elevated metro has been built since.
Elevated Rail is truly beautiful 😮
You missed the world's most awesome elevated railway system: the Schwebebahn in Wuppertal. Underground!?! UNTHINKABLE!! ❤
Elevated rail being ‘not too loud’ depends on good design and maintenance choices : integrated sound barriers, vibration absorbing rail fixation, avoiding points and switches, motor and magnetic braking, perfect rail and wheel calibration and maintenance, …
Kuala Lumpur is a city that you'd be well rewarded to focus on.I've spent more than enough time in Bangkok to be blown away by how transformative the Skytrain there is, but in KL it's another fantastic enabler of city living. More than BKK, KL a city of many many separate areas, but it's a much newer city. The areas that make up the city are almost all smaller towns that have been recently absorbed into the conurbation. This means that (unlike BKK), there's no consistent grid of any kind. As well, it's full of topography that has many small river valleys and drainage channels that have meant routes from area to area are rarely straight for more than ten blocks, and always following an old waterway, where BKK has mostly straight canals (klongs). Add to this, KL is an incredibly vertical city,4th highest in the world I understand; so you get extremely high density concentrations from 40+ storey residential building clusters, that require something with the ability to move very large numbers of people.
Almost every mall (and there are dozens and dozens in the city) is connected directly or nearly so by one of the elevated train lines, which include a monorail system. Lots of elevated walkways that get you across the busy streets, that also connect to transit.
It's not all good, and KL is an interesting case study in how transit falls behind roads when the pace of development is very fast, and underplanned. They've built 26 new highways in the urban areas in the past 30 or so years, and car use has exploded. But the trains are well used, and the level of traffic congestion here is never close to as bad as Bangkok. it's safe, it's clean, it's very efficient, and it easily makes its way through all the non-standard urban features that I've mentioned. But it does some to be losing to the car lobby....
I haven't watched the video yet, but it's better because it's fun and looks cool
6:32 Also modern rail viaducts often have noise reduction in their design. For example, the viaduct MTR West Rail Line and Ma On Shan Line (now Tuen Ma Line) are designed with various soundproofing technologies, from the specially design trackbed to soundproof material in the viaduct wall. This ensures the train can sneak through high-density areas without causing noise pollution in the neighborhood.
growing up in a city with a very good subway system, I always enjoyed it when the train popped out into the elevated portion. vibes are definitely not the best reason to build elevated rail vs underground, but if you can have nice views and save money on construction then that is a win win to me!
I agree with all the points made here, but it’s also important to acknowledge that the oldest systems do in fact make an incredible amount of noise. (Was just in Chicago and, much as I love the place, there’s no denying that the L’s steel structures are very loud.)
I think one of the biggest barriers to shifting public sentiment on elevated rail is the fact that the old and loud systems that do exist are also among the most visible/famous. We may know about newer + better solutions, but many people only have these older + louder solutions to go off of. Upgrading the loudest elevated infrastructure in Chicago, New York, Melbourne, etc. would probably help reduce some of the pushback from people who only see these louder examples when they think about elevated rail lines. Glad Chicago’s started to do this with some of the red and purple lines; hope this can be applied to more of the system, and that other systems around the would will consider prioritizing similar projects where feasible!
5:32 absolutely agree and I've actually done just this. Just to ride the skytrain for 2 hrs and go in one big circle* around the entire city(s) and going to very single skytrain stop (at least as it was back in 2015, still haven't got to see the Evergreen Extension)
*was a lot easier with the old alignment of Expo and Millennium
I'm from Toronto but skytrain will always hold a special spot for me, based on the same tech as the Scarborough Rt, makes me nostalgic, thibk of what Toronto could have had, and it has such incredible views.
Lookong forwards to the Ontario Line here at home. Specifically, the elevated portions across the Don valley and Don mills :)
Elevated rail is just so much more dignified for riders. It really makes you feel like an actual member of society and not a lower class citizen
I recently completed a metro system (underground) in a Minecraft Anarchy server that regularly has about 50-70 players. Am very tempted to make an RMTransit style video for it lol. I can do an almost halfway decent imitation of your voice. If I ever make the vid, I will be sure to send you a link.
This was a great video Reese! I also loved the views and architecture of the U6 in Vienna! You can’t get the same feeling of zooming past the skyline during autumn and spring, and seeing such amazing views!
And it is exactly the reason why I love Vancouver more than ANY other city in the world!! Aside from the fact that it IS beautiful, it’s the SkyTrain that elevated the beauty of the city!!
5:00 On the Red Line in Chicago, heading north from the Loop, I can feel the air get fresher and easier to breathe when we leave the tunnel and go above ground. Not only do you get to see outside with a great view, but the air exchange unit is exchanging with fresh outdoor air. Well, as fresh air as any large metropolis gets, that is.
I love my elevated train lines through Berlin. It’s so nice riding the S or U-Bahn and being able to see so much more of the city:)
There’s a weekly market (with everything from farm fresh groceries, spices and street food to flea market stands and services like knife sharpening) in Hamburg that is located entirely under the elevated tracks of two U3 stations (Eppendorfer Baum & Hoheluftbrücke). It stretches the whole way between the two stations and it‘s a really cool example for public use of the spaces created by elevated rail (It‘s called Isemarkt and open tuesdays and fridays if I‘m not mistaken and I would strongly advise everyone that visits Hamburg to go there, even if it‘s just for walking beneath the tracks without buying anything).
Bro im so proud of you for losing weight. I didnt even recognize you on the bouldering clips you posted on Insta, really inspired me to make a change. Way to go! 💪
We so needed this defense of elevated rail during the REM de l'est debate here in Montreal. I'm still bitter that this was cancelled due to a complete misunderstanding of what elevated rail is.
Elevated rail is seen badly because the old Els in New York, Philadelphia and Chicago are loud and very bulky. But today they can be built in a better fashion.
The Sky Train in Bangkok is fantastic. It also provides elevated walkways to make it easier to walk around with direct connections to neighbouring buildings.
So valuable are those they even charge a small fare to walk on some of them (or did in 2011).
25 years ago when they built the system, there were some complaints about elevated trains being ugly. But the traffic is so bad most people agreed that ugly viaduct is infinitely better than traffic.
Now it has become a symbol of modernity. Especially where it runs through landmarks. Like Victory monument or Siam, a downtown area.
Fun facts, there is a posh private school that opposes the elevated rail line and station in front of the school. So as a compromise, they put a tall privacy fence to stop people from seeing inside the school and removed the station entrance in front of the school. All as per school requested. And now, 25 years later, said school starts complaining why they don't have entrance or easy access to the train station.
@@trainluvrAll elevated walkways (locally called "Skywalk") are free and always been. That is, if you don't walk through the station paid zone (which is blocked by the fare gate).
If someone charged you for a skywalk usage, you either walk through the station fare zone. Or it's a scammer. If someone walks up to you and asks for a fee, that's 1000% scam.
Fun fact, a lot of skywalks were funded/built by private and donated to public. As it encourages more foot traffic to their business. Charging fee for usage seems counter intuitive.
The elevated MTA NYC Subway trains in Queens/Southern Queens are unique & kind of still boost up that relaxin' & fast nostalgia.
Speaking as someone who grew up next to the el in Philly Ive always had a soft spot for elevated railways. Glad to see this video.
I absolutely loveeee elevated rail lines ,my homwtown kolkata is building a tonne of it and orangle line goes through my old neighourhood ,i still miss my home and it also is a delayed project but i cant wait to go back to ride the metro once its finished ❤❤
I love the Chicago L because it is elevated and you don't lose cell signal or sight of where you are on it, wayfinding upon getting off of it is super easy unlike with a subway, I've been to NYC a couple times and always get lost upon exiting a subway station cause wayfinding is hard with them.
The Berlin U-Bahn coming round the big elevated curve in Kreuzberg after crossing the Oberbaum Bridge is one of my favourite sights.
Finally, I've waited for this video so damn long!
I think another underrated benefit is the time to access the station from the street. In DC and Boston in particular, many stations have extremely deep tunnels, so you have to take 2 or three extremely long elevators just to get to the platform, essentially adding a few minutes to each trip, making it that much slower compared to other modes.
Fun fact : Paris old above-ground metro lines were actually more expensive to build than digging underground. They built outside only because the ground was full and to deal with elevation issues. It was a different time.
I agree with you mostly. This can also work in connecting mainline rail to other mainline rail in semi suburban places such as the London conurbations where transport is a bus service to get anywhere near a mainline train service that is 5 miles away, yet take upwards of 30 mins to get to using public transport. Even driving is 15 mins plus.
There is context to pay attention to. Elevated BART was great for most of the system, but underground was better for some parts of the system like Market St
BART has metro frequencies (every 3 minutes) with long trains that have unique wheel profiles that squeal extra loud. BART is at 100+ decibels which causes permanent damage with longer than 30 minutes of exposure.
Hence some sections are underground and some are elevated with an air gap
All of my friends in East Toronto/Scarborough all agree that they feel like an excited 5 year old again when they ride the portion of Line 2 over the Don Valley and get to see the nice views. I also felt similar feelings on the exposed portion west of Dundas West (High Park, Keele). It's actually kind of absurd that we don't reserve the nice views for the trains and instead are adamant about putting them underground, even when that turns a $4B 5 year project into a $20B 15+ year disaster with no opening date that's having entire other projects start and end in the meantime.
Political interference has destroyed rapid transit in Toronto. We'll be playing 'catch up' forever.
What I love about the elevated rail is that it can be a free roof for anything underneath it. You can have businesses, housing or pedestrian and bike paths under the viaduct, taking advantage of this fact, if you think more broadly during the design process.
Thank you Reece! Also one point that I want to point out is that the High Speed Metros that you mentioned are however, overwhelmingly underground, even through very remote areas, which isn’t good engineering practices.
Thank you Reece for an extremely well presented video. Your arguments are VERY strong. However, there is still going to be huge opposition to any attempt to 'drive' an elevated railway through an existing densely built area. It is a totally different matter if the elevated line is built BEFORE everything else - before the house, offices, hospitals etc are built!
Were you the only one to comment during the pre release?
You got a point, most of nyc elevated lines were build through far less densely populated areas before their support triggered building booms.(Examples: The Jamcia Line/Broadway El(J/Z), The Flushing Line(7), Fulton Street Line past Grant Ave(A)
Or were built over existing surface Railroad right of ways as direct replacements to old commuter lines and street cars services..
(Examples: The West End Line(D), Mrtyle Ave Line(M), The Brighton Beach Line(B&Q).The Far Rockaway and Rockaway Park Lines(A&S)
There are so many super wide roads/highways in north american cities you can take a lane or two from to build a elevated railway. Building elevated railways in existing cities should be possible. Getting rid of car lanes actually reduces traffic noise.
@@thijmstickman8349 For many North American cities you have a valid point. But I do not think your point is applicable in other parts of the world - certainly not in Europe.
@@SailorNox On youtube yes! But there may be comments on Patreon.
There are also elevated sections of the new Sydney metro. Including quite a spectacular bridge.
I've always just LOVED how elevated trains looked. Always wanted an apartment right next to one so I occasionally see and hear the train go by, kind of like in Reece's older videos.
Hmm. Back in the day, sometime in '48 my father took me for a ride on the olde Third Ave. El in NYC, they were planning to take it down and he wanted a last ride himself. I remember wood coaches, open vestibules, the sounds of the air brake compressors. It was a weekend so that meant that all trains were locals every four blocks up to 125 st was a stop. Third Av was very far from Fifth Ave. even though only two blocks away. The lacey structure shook and swayed as trains rode by and some of the turns were pretty sharp. A little strange looking directly into people's apartments, almost nobody had AC then so most of the windows were open and some folks were dressed 'casually'. I must have been hell to paint this structure. I wish I could have rode on the steam locos that powered trains before the el was electrified. The tracks raised up for stations so the station house and rider stairways were under the tracks, this gave the trains some help in stopping for the stations and more help when they departed. The express tracks in the middle climbed even higher going over the center platform of the station. To a seven year old this looked like a carnival ride rollercoaster. Given the age of the system and technology available this looks far better than the ugly 'monorail' in Seattle. I still like riding the 'loop' in Chicago, much better than Chicago's subways. By the way, there's nothing wrong with 'lowrise' neighborhoods in cities, these buildings are way cheaper to construct and lead to a more people friendly neighborhood than highrise condos where nobody knows his neighbors. Such condos are not family friendly. Howcome nobody complains about the structures of the LasVegas monorail, they kinda suck too.
Please do a video about Portugal, either Lisbon Metro, bad Railways or Porto’s super weird metro
Eventually!
People blamed the Elevated for making the Bowery in New York a dump. Well, I've been to the Bowery, long after the Elevated was gone, and it's still a dump even without the Elevated.
The Elevateds of New York and Chicago would be not bad if only they actually got proper maintenance. In Philadelphia, they in fact did rebuild the Market-Frankford Elevated, but I haven't seen it personally since then; however, from photos on Wikipedia I can see that some stations were rebuilt much nicer than others (including the aspect of degree of protection from the weather).
The station I grew up next to on the MFL Tioga was renovated but kept one of its old head houses.
Point well taken about the maintenance, overhaul and even modernisation of the el structures. Even as I'm typing this comment, a huge stretch of the 4-track mainline on the north side Chicago Red Line is being totally rebuilt with new reinforced concrete supports, concrete track guideways that support two tracks a piece, newly constructed stations, along with new signal communication equipment. My guestimate is that this entire modernisation project will be completed within the next two years.
Dresden, the city where I live, has exclusively elevated rail. They built it about 100 years ago when it became clear that grade seperation would be necessary.
The elevated metro viaducts in India cities have an added advantage. It provides two wheeler riders some respite from the burning sun in summer and some shade during the relentless monsoon rains. Also, the pillars have numbers and serve as sign posts and location markers in cities that have confusing street signs.
Yes! Wish this was implemented more often!
I love the few elevated sections of LA's metro, even when the views are a bit dull. But I'd love to see more of them.
The elevated areas of the Blue/A line south of DT are kinda depressing and dull but the elevated sections north are really awesome to see, along with the E to the West. If/when they ever grade separate the Long Beach section of the Blue I'd love if it was elevated rather than underground. We have such wide arterial streets, they should have BRTs or elevated rail way more often.
And in denser areas urban gondolas can go above many obstacles with lower costs.
It could complement the elevated trains for short trips in dense areas while elevated trains can make longer rides with higher speed for far away suburbs.
Living in the Junction Triangle neighbourhood, the new elevated GO crossings have improved the neighbourhood so much. They look nice, are quiet, avoid conflicting with traffic, are clearly safer, and open up new crossings. I really hope Toronto continues in this direction.
Many thanks for this video! 🎉😊
The "Skytrain" system in Metro Vancouver is definitely the backbone of public transit here, moving hundreds of thousands of people every day. It's got underground sections, but that is often a matter of necessity. Canada Line is obviously mostly underground. The problem we have here is how little actual heavy rail track we have around, no longer any capacity for long-rail commuter rail, because the true rail right of ways are few or got torn up post WW2. We used to have something called the Interurban, which went further than much of what exists today. Can you imagine if they upgraded the West Coast Express to go to the far communities north of the Fraser and built another counterpart to it south of the Fraser, to the far ends of the Fraser Valley? (That would have been better than a Langley Skytrain, which IMHO should have been sent south towards Newton / S. Surrey instead.)
While I agree with many of the ideas I don’t feel like Reece did a good job acknowledging the real downsides elevated rail has. Noise and loss of sunlight on street level are two tradeoffs that are just part of the approach and need to be taken into account.
I just recently visited Hamburg with it’s very cool elevated portions, especially on the U3 and the S-Bahn Verbindungsbahn and they are great both as a passenger and too look at trains gliding through the city. Walking under them is still quite dark and dingy and pretty much wasted space. I actually much prefer the approach of London, Berlin or Tokio with shops being built under the rail line, because it grounds the infrastructure at street level and uses the space a lot better. We also have some green embankments where I live and they act as a sort of linear wilderness reserves, which makes them very pleasant to walk along, because as long as there isn’t a train it’s quite calm and quiet.
I get that Reece and I just have very different tastes in this regard. But I feel like the „modern“ concrete lines are much uglier then the steel structures in London, Hamburg or Chicago. They are quiter, which is important, but they are exactly as modern now, as elevated highways were seen as modern 60 years ago. Looks cool in concept art, not so great anymore after 40 years in real life.
@@eechauch5522 Reece seems to have a thing about elevated railways whereby that are all pros and no cons. If it was that simple, they would get built everywhere.
@@eechauch5522 Concrete structures don’t age well visually.
Rarely, if I ever do I hear the pros of elevated railway outside of the cost effectiveness. Pointing out the that greenways, public spaces for leisure and so on reminded me of the opportunities possible due to the this style of infrastructure development. And yes! I agree that a large part of the the disdain for elevated rail is based on it's portrayal in media as the backdrop of crime ridden areas. I don't think I've seen it portrayed in any other way, unfortunately. I enjoyed this It was hella inspirational.
Most of metro line in kuala lumpur is elevated, and i love it
I think ground rails divide cities much more then elevated rail
Where i came from the raillines are mostly the end of semi urban cities people would rather buy property on the opposite side of the city then the other side of the rail line which is much closer to city centre
Man, this makes me want to visit new york even more.
I just got back from Japan yesterday, and I gotta say, the shops and neighborhoods under/around the Yamanote line in Ueno and Akihabara were some of my favorite. It was such a vibrant community!
I'm originally from the inner city of Chicago and live in Honolulu now so, yeah, this video is right up my alley lol. There is something kinda wonderous of an elevated train line snaking through skyscrapers that I will always fine appealing.