They did not only not given Russia any land, but actually took what Russia already had in Poland. Knowing who got the biggest army at the end of the war not a very smart move indeed
@@monsieurlefrog8706sadly I think if the timeline would keep going our 2 nations will somehow manage to be at each others throat again and eventually go to war
Yeah because we had one of the worst. We had an kaiser witch was full of hatred so that we even had a song „we want our old kaiser Wilhelm back, but the one either beard“ (Wilhelm the first) and after that we hat another psychopath with health problems how wants to erase hole nations. Sooooooo yeah…hard to get something worse than that two characters….😒
Yeah the Germans kinda lost everything in the 20th century, despite their great potential as set up in the 19th century. It's difficult to think of realistic ways that Germany gets fucked over more
@@genovayork2468 I think it’s less that and more when you give Prussia a lot more land in the peace conference meaning they have a far stronger economy, and you put Austria in a position where it is going to collapse and lead to it likely being consumed into Germany and leaving the smaller German states no other choice but to be joined into Germany. This leads to a super Germany which when you combine them with Britain, the strongest world power at the time and put them up against a weakened France, Spain, and Russia they most likely win
I love how Spain and Russia get punished even tho they were arguably the most important factors in Napoleons lost. I do agree with the viewers view on Italy tho. Allowing them to unify early would have probably been a good thing.
Realistically what caused their problems was having their leadership being totalitarian for decades and damaged southern Italian growth and also join the axis in ww2
he predicts 1850s/1860s. meaning it predates any american civil war (assuming no major butterflies to usa) and just as importantly there has been no crimean war infact this great war is ALSO this time line's crimean war, same time period and likely same starting causes. except france has been swapped to Russia's side (alongside spain, and possibly a unified italy) being replaced by a unified germany. what we saw in the crimean war was still mass deaths in trench warfare, but with worse medical knowledge and techniques [more wounded and sick = dead] and inexperiance facing new rifles and artillery caused mass casaulties. the Death rate for the crimean war was almost 40% compared to ww1's 14% dead (or us civil war's 20%). its basically the us civil war but more brutal (less counters to new techniques, less cultural ties and more animosity between combatants) and more than 6 times the size (almost 7 times infact) due to the larger populations involved.
@@matthiuskoenig3378so basically take the American civil war but in Europe. Congratulations everyone; we’ve caused WW1 60 years ahead of schedule and put Europe on a path to an early WW2
@matthiuskoenig3378 Well, the death rate for the Crimean War was due to disease, and overall due to poor local conditions and conduct of the war. However, breech loaders are still only marginally in use, and the machine gun roughly 50 years off as only the gatling gun really exists yet. Modern artillery still not really a large factor either. This means that you probably have a less deadly war because what made the war so deadly was industrial technology and scale, which in this timeline, isn't actually yet achievable. Not to mention the industrial population growth hasn't yet occurred meaning there just aren't enough men to create the conditions for The Great War of our timeline.
Alexander could have negotiated that one of his brothers would be crowned King of Poland & another be King of Finland. Internally, these would have been just a partitioning of Emperor Paul's territory among his sons. One of the 3 brothers would be kept in Russia to secure the succession.
@@jgr7487 Actually, that's right. They would've been part of the same realm, essentially. I don't think that would've kept the balance of power though. Russia would've felt betrayed regardless.
@@Gabowsk you're right. if war doesn't break as soon as the Congress of Vienna ends, the death of Alexander I of Russia would start the War of Russian Succession.
Honestly this is probably one of the best alternate history videos I've watched because instead of just a one sentence "what if" scenarios. It takes a somewhat unrealistic scenario with varied inputs but follows a realistic path to what we saw irl
This timeline is both hilarious and horrifying. I want to see it continued. Maybe a smaller video in what the United States is doing along this dumpster fire of a period in alternate history.
They probably wouldn't have much weight, and I don't think the American Civil War changes all that much so prob not much difference except the US being way less relevant in this alternate WW1 than in our timeline
This carnage in Europe probably means a constant flow of immigrants from Europe to America. This is good in the long term, but nativism was really strong at this time in the States, so you’d probably get more backlash from the WASPs.
Maybe the British bring the US in to hurt France and Spain in the new world once a war kicks off. Or Russia sells Alaska to the US earlier. If other European nations are financially crippled, the US might purchase their territories in the new world.
@@CMitchell808Not to mention, the US went as far as implementing the exclusion act on the Chinese as they flooded in droves at the west, we would most likely see the same result in this timeline resulted from the massive influx of those immigrants flooding in.
You should also let your viewers decide on the post-WW1 borders, because this interactive concept is hilarious and I love the viewer integration. Plus I also want to see exactly how many nations get salty over the handiwork of the world's worst diplomats.
Post-WW2 borders might be an even better idea now that I thought more about this, as the original idea for this thing did come from another person doing it for WW1.
Man, this is big-time slayage in Europe, as the viewers want more border-gore in Germany that I guess mappers would have a hard time drawing its borders.
@@quempire2656 i love poland lithuania as well, but even i knew making russia lose land was the worst idea ever. i did not advocate for PL to be restored either cause it would kill europe. when i saw that super massive PL get restored my jaw dropped
having your viewers redraw various regions borders in the most atrocious way possible and then just guessing what would happen afterwards is an extremely funny video format
the irony of him saying that this timeline would be worse, when from everything he is talking about, it seems way better than the real timeline, for every single country except Russia, but even for them, it's not that bad since they still gained land in relation to pre-french revolution europe
Yeah due to the unreasonable punishments of not only the loosing countries But also the winning countries, I could see a new alliance between the most punished countries, France, Russia, and Denmark.
I voted in pretty much every instance in the interest of preserving balance of power and basically letting France keep what they kept in our timeline, and mostly sticking to our timeline in everything, except trying to push for a small but more independent Poland and a less Austrian controlled Italy with a much stronger Sardinian buffer state
I voted to punish France and their allies but not too harshly, reward anti napoleon powers but not too much and try and create great powers to balance one another out e.g big Venice and big sardinia
In the end, they _were_ facing the veritable twin navy/army juggernauts of Europe. Britain and Germany would complement each other stunningly well if circumstances gave them shared foes.
@@Perrirodan1yeah, the scenario is quite unlikely. If a Hungarian revolution is successful, then it would still be at war with the Habsburg-loyal Croatians. And if the Hungarians were successful then Vienna was successful as well and has deposed the Habsburgs.
Viewer scenario: what if at any point in history since chiles creation, the rest of the world just kinda decided to give all their coast to Chile (with the exception of small island like Jamaica, larger ones like the ones in Indonesia still give their coast to Chile) if you want an advanced edition, you could also give continents away to their respective noodle country, like Vietnam gets asia, either Croatia or Norway gets europe, maybe Somalia gets africa and Chile could either get all of the americas or Panama gets the north and Chile just the south.
3:44 in germany, italy and Spain too, many people forget it bc Spain was already united but they would have 100% reunited after that like the germans did.
*Russia doesn't get a specific acre of land in what is today Belarus, Ukraine, and Poland.* *A few decades later, this causes Germany to conquer Europe.* It may be one of many possibilities, but what an interesting domino effect of events that was.
The only thing that I'd find unplausible is Spain helping Fr and Ru in a massive European war, because they almost have nothing to gain by angering the two most indutrious and powerful empires. I could also see Germany annexing Courland and breaking Livonia off Russia to cut off Riga and hamper their Baltic Fleet's power projection, but leaving Lithuania as its own separate subservient duchy or under Polish rule is more probable than being annexed by Ge, since there is little to nothing to gain by annexing foreign unruly agricultural land tht gives you a huge border with the power you just declared victory over.
The Baltic Duchies actually held some German nobility if I'm not mistaken. I don't see Germany annexing Lithuania either though since they actually aren't German, but there is still the possibility that Britain told Germany no on the Baltics so they pushed for Lithuania instead. We have to remember that the Germany of this timeline has an influx of Austrians who are used to accounting for unruly peoples, not to mention that Germany in general is *much* stronger since this is Greater Germany, not Lesser Germany.
Very good video, Honestly it was a very complex scenario and the conclusion was farily realistic. I have, however, two small nitpicks 1. Brittany and Catalonia would of have succumbed to the liberal revolutions of the early 19th century: Nationalism as a concept began spreading in the liberal revolutions that followed napoleons conquest so I dont think proper separatist sentiments existed in this provinces to keep them separated from their original countries. I cant really speak for brittany (as I dont really know about it`s history and maybe the british would have a special interest in mantaining the independence of a brittanic state and help mantain their independence) but in the case of catalonia, catalonian nationalism didnt appear until much latter, during the 1870´s (after the final defeat of the carlists and a movemet of cutural resurgence spreaded across the catalonian petite bourgeoisie that led to the birth of a proper catalonian identity) so this new catalonian state would be left in limbo, existing for the purpose of being a buffer state between France and Spain and needing of great power assistance to fend of pro spanish rebels. And even so, considering the events that were taking place in spain (The 8 de mayo had just happend, a liberal-patriotic revolution to restore a propper spanish government over spain, and the one that was arround the corner, the "pronunciamiento de riego", a liberal revolution that in our timeline was done to force the king to accept the constitution written by the spanish people during french ocupation and that was surly going to be stronger in this one) for as much assistance as they could get, in the end, the wave of spanish panationalists to appeare in catalonia would probably not be defeated without a full invasion of the province (which whitout french support is almost imposible) 2. Napoleon the third could of have comed much earlier into power : Considering how humiliating the peacedeal was for France, its almost certain one of the objectives of the bourgeoisie within france (hence one of the factors that will drive the liberal revolutions at the begining of the century) would be to restore the old french borders. Its also posible that amongs fench society (particularly romantic circles), the times of napoleon are remembered with much more nostalgia, as the times when france was at the peak of its power and had complete territorial integrity. As such, its posible that one of napoleons early coup attemps could of have had greater succes than ir our timeline.
1) Nationalism would have strengthened Brittany and possibly catalonia. In the case of the Bretons, they were not really French until well after the 1870s, very few even spoke french as a 2nd language even in the 1870s and their language and culture isn't even close to french (being much closer to Welsh), Brittany was culturally integrated into france by the efforts of the republics and emperors, mostly by the 3rd republic. Being indepedant the nationalists instead push for Breton nationalism and culture rather than OTL french government quashing it. OTL As part of France you had strong Breton nationalist movements, with Breton indepedance movements resisting the 1st republic and aiding the British including literal uprisings in the 1790s (and ahistory of anti-french revolts long before that). breton peasants even in the 1870s were considered too monarchist, separtist and disloyal (and what we would now call concentration camps were actually set up during the franco-prussian war for bretons). Basically what i am saying is the only way Brittany falls to nationalism is an extrnal french invasion driven by nationalism in france (not french nationalims by bretons). The Catalonians are much closer to the Spainish then the Bretons are to the french, but even they are distinctly different to the Spainish, we a not mutually intelligible language and a distinct culture. catalan nationalism came later IRL, but indepedance would build it up earlier, although Spainish nationalism is still a possibility. 2) largely agree
Nice video as always! I think I disagree, however, that Russia would ever accept 2nd partition borders in the scenario you outlined. Nicholas's throne is unstable as his brother *just* got assasinated for not promoting somewhat hawkish policies and taking over Poland. Between getting overthrown by a coup and securing Russian gains in Poland at a military cost, the Russians would go into Poland; and the coalition of great powers to assemble would be smaller, as I don't think France would *ever* side with the Coalition on a dispute after their mutilated peace treaty. So it'd essentially be Austria, Prussia, and Germany, alongside the UK (and possibly the ottomans or sweden, but sweden's more unlikely) fighting Russia; a fight they could possibly win, if it ever broke out. Or maybe the Congress diplomats just back down, which would be a *massive* failure in the eyes of the public (especially in Britain, where this matters), as the Congress of Vienna fails to keep the peace, prosperity & cooperation it has offered to promote through it's signing, but instead has created major enemies within France and Russia that feel their own pride and national honor is wounded. In my personal opinion, the major world war we have at the end would either be a rapid Franco-Russian victory, or a sluggish war that ends with their defeat. They can EASILY knock out Germany with their numbers alone, especially as the Prussian army isn't *fully* modernized yet, and the differences in artillery technology/tactical strategy wouldn't be as decisive early on. Plus, some of the major commanders on the French side, including Napoleon, aren't old as fuck, so they should be better players in this war than they were in the 1871 one. But I don't think it's a forgone conclusion Germany overpowers the Franco-Russian alliance. The German states are still disorganized after *just* having a revolution, and their military command would need to become one, which can lead to squabbling on it's leader's behalf; whilst Russia already MASSIVELY outnumbers the German forces, and France has more experience and knowledge on logistics & warfare in general. If the battles are victories, I think nothing would stand in the way for a German defeat.
I love this type of alternate history, do you think that you could maybe make a full alternate history series, from say, 1814, all the way to the modern day? That would be amazing!
I Dunno, even though Britain was more industrialized than the other nations it was still not a lot in real terms. I think Germany would be stalemated if not overrun eventually by France/Spain/Russia. Through attrition, there are no massive railroads yet. Also, with the addition of southern Germany to Austria, they might actually be stronger and not weaker in this timeline.
This is great. I love the "my viewers are fools (true)" theme. Also, I'm going to be stereotypically American and ask: "What about America in this timeline?" In particular, the US experienced a lot of immigration between 1820 and 1860, especially from distressed areas of Russia, Germany, Italy and the eastern Hapsburg Empire. This scenario could change that human outflow quite a lot and effect the character of the industrializing US in this period.
It's unlikely that mass immigration from Eastern Europe would be possible in the middle of the 19th century. The main obstacle would be the cost of trans-atlantic journey at that time especially for Eastern europeans that were poorer than your average brit german or frenchman. In our timeline mass imigration to US from Southern & Eastern Europe only kicked in early 20th century as trans-atlantic journey became cheaper and Eastern Europeans became wealthier. Nonetheless some migrations would still eventually occure but probably in different destinations.
well there are more wars in this timeline so more immigration: -you have a world war in the 1850/60s -russian invasion of poland before this -Austrian civil war and partision before this (on much bigger scale than irl hungarian revolt, since it isn't crushed easily by russian intervention and combines with the brothers war) -French and spainish invasions -an earlier pre-1850s Italian wars of unification - a larger dutch revolt you basically have all the conflicts of IRL europe (and more) in half the length of time, This probably means more people trying to get in the us in the 1815-1860 period, however this is only going to drive up the cost of the movement in a period it was already expensive. meaning its still probably only wealtheir europeans that move across (which means its probably still mostly northwest Europeans), but the larger potential market is likely to drive more investment in improveing trans-atlantic crossings mostly to reduce costs.
Realistically it don’t change much, beyond maybe dismantling most of the pale of settlements or not letting it be formed that might caused smaller Jewish populations
literally yall went "lets punish the victors" and then are surprised that they get angry about it commenters: "let's punish the people who defeated napoleon and lost loads of people for it" major powers: *don't agree* commenters: *surprised Pikachu face*
hola, espero que entiendas español, yo haria que francia dejara de existir, napoleon fallo y francia es divida entre españoles y alemanes, dejando paris dividida en 2, españa llegaria hasta tolosa-oeste y se quedaria con belgica; alemania por otro lado se quedaria con la parte este de paris, se quedaria también con Luxemburgo, con suiza, con la parte este de paris y tolosa, y llegaria hasta andorra, ademas agregaria a alemania lo que es dinamarca, noruega, suecia y los paises balticos ahora tambien agregaria italia, porque italia se quedaria con corsega, serdeña, todo lo que son los balcanes, pero con la siguiente excepcion, que aqui habria un resurgimiento griego asi que todo lo que estoy nombrando para italia en verdad es para grecia, que ademas se quedaria con bulgaria y moldavia a estas alturas las fronteras alemanas llegarian hasta crimea y se quedarian con los limites de ucrania y bielorrusia, y se daria en este universo, en esta parte de europa, limite de grecia con alemania en conclusion polonia, francia y otros dejarian de existir 🤣😂😹💥💢🤟🏼✌🏼🤙🏼🏁🏴🏳🔲🔳🔱💱🛄🗺🛃🛫🛬🌍🌎🌏
. me gustaría agregar también que parte del reparto de francia se haga hacia inglaterra, así francia quedaría dividido entonces entre alemanes, españoles e ingleses
@@matthiuskoenig3378 if it even happens cause truth be told… Pretty sure the Ottomans would likely just concede to the Russians in this timeline with Austria out of commission and Britain really the only one who would likely help… Ironically negotiating is a possibility
@@the-angel-of-light-gardevoir8 honestly didn't consider the Ottomans just concedeing, largely because that would likely cause them to loose face with their empire, most importantly egypt. then again would egypt even be part of the ottomans in this timeline, as the ottomans only won the 1st ottoman-egypitian war in the 1830s and the 2nd in the 1840s due to russian intervention, would the russians of this timeline support the ottomans or aide the egyptians in exchange for land from the ottomans and an alliance? its possible the Ottomans are little more than a rump state in the 1850s in this timeline.
Being german, I actually like this timeline, a powerful germany this early might calm the militarists in prussia down and preserve peace, who knows, few timelines will be as catastrophic for germany as the real one ^^
@@aarongodinez9022 If I remember correctly the french declared the franco prussian war because of a percieved insult. Yes they were manipulated, but it shouldn't have been that easy. The late 19th century was still volatile enough that modern pacifism would be detrimental to a country.
@@hothoploink1509 The Franco-Prussian war is irrelevant. The balance of power was already destroyed after the Austro-Prussian War, which was a show of blatant Prussian aggression. The Prussians were offered Holstein but they refused it because Bismarck wanted war. Weak Austria = Unstable Europe. They were always the balancing power. The unifications of Germany and Italy both came at the expense of Austria and thus seriously destabilized Europe.
I didn't even vote and i could see the terror coming from a mile away
I felt it in my bones as soon as I saw the video
This world was screwed as soon as they remade massive poland
I was late 😢
And the last time he let his (discord) viewers vote, it was a mess
Me too
Same here
Someone unironically thought that not giving Russia land after the war would have been a good idea.
They did not only not given Russia any land, but actually took what Russia already had in Poland. Knowing who got the biggest army at the end of the war not a very smart move indeed
dont let the modern russia hater affect alt hist too much~
Ppl just hate Russia, that's all
@@whitnip7868he probably doesn't even know the difference between the Russian Empire and modern russia
@@mrsillytacos they have the same flag therefore they are exactly the same
We need to make this an annual thing with each year having some additional weirder choices (like big expansion of the Netherlands into germany)
You're genius
nahhh
Sealand taking all costal territory in the world
Greater Dutch empire for the win
@@RichD1 sealand hyperborea
As a German, I think the scenario worked out quite well.
as a brit, same
@@monsieurlefrog8706sadly I think if the timeline would keep going our 2 nations will somehow manage to be at each others throat again and eventually go to war
I hope Germany gets all of western north Africa I really hate knowing how to speak french
@@mohamedrafik2237 praying for Mittelafrika🙏 maybe they get morroco too I think they had Trading interest there
@@chinesetaxevader I want them to get Algeria too
Crazy how every single alt history scenario ends with a better ending for germany than the canon one
Yeah because we had one of the worst. We had an kaiser witch was full of hatred so that we even had a song „we want our old kaiser Wilhelm back, but the one either beard“ (Wilhelm the first) and after that we hat another psychopath with health problems how wants to erase hole nations. Sooooooo yeah…hard to get something worse than that two characters….😒
Yeah the Germans kinda lost everything in the 20th century, despite their great potential as set up in the 19th century. It's difficult to think of realistic ways that Germany gets fucked over more
If only Kaiser Frederick III and his pro-liberal outlook hadn't died in 99 days.
Or... you know... I'll say it... PH is a Germaboo.
@@genovayork2468 I think it’s less that and more when you give Prussia a lot more land in the peace conference meaning they have a far stronger economy, and you put Austria in a position where it is going to collapse and lead to it likely being consumed into Germany and leaving the smaller German states no other choice but to be joined into Germany. This leads to a super Germany which when you combine them with Britain, the strongest world power at the time and put them up against a weakened France, Spain, and Russia they most likely win
I love how Spain and Russia get punished even tho they were arguably the most important factors in Napoleons lost. I do agree with the viewers view on Italy tho. Allowing them to unify early would have probably been a good thing.
Realistically what caused their problems was having their leadership being totalitarian for decades and damaged southern Italian growth and also join the axis in ww2
Y'know, you present Europe as being in tatters but the earlier 1870's WWI is probably far less deadly than the one in our timeline
Agree. The reason why WWI was so deadly was because all major European powers were blue-balled for 100 years😅
The german british vs france spain russia war IS the ww1 of this timeline
he predicts 1850s/1860s. meaning it predates any american civil war (assuming no major butterflies to usa) and just as importantly there has been no crimean war infact this great war is ALSO this time line's crimean war, same time period and likely same starting causes. except france has been swapped to Russia's side (alongside spain, and possibly a unified italy) being replaced by a unified germany.
what we saw in the crimean war was still mass deaths in trench warfare, but with worse medical knowledge and techniques [more wounded and sick = dead] and inexperiance facing new rifles and artillery caused mass casaulties. the Death rate for the crimean war was almost 40% compared to ww1's 14% dead (or us civil war's 20%). its basically the us civil war but more brutal (less counters to new techniques, less cultural ties and more animosity between combatants) and more than 6 times the size (almost 7 times infact) due to the larger populations involved.
@@matthiuskoenig3378so basically take the American civil war but in Europe.
Congratulations everyone; we’ve caused WW1 60 years ahead of schedule and put Europe on a path to an early WW2
@matthiuskoenig3378 Well, the death rate for the Crimean War was due to disease, and overall due to poor local conditions and conduct of the war. However, breech loaders are still only marginally in use, and the machine gun roughly 50 years off as only the gatling gun really exists yet. Modern artillery still not really a large factor either. This means that you probably have a less deadly war because what made the war so deadly was industrial technology and scale, which in this timeline, isn't actually yet achievable. Not to mention the industrial population growth hasn't yet occurred meaning there just aren't enough men to create the conditions for The Great War of our timeline.
Alexander could have negotiated that one of his brothers would be crowned King of Poland & another be King of Finland. Internally, these would have been just a partitioning of Emperor Paul's territory among his sons. One of the 3 brothers would be kept in Russia to secure the succession.
This still doesn't guarantee the balance of power, because Russia still lost territories.
@@Gabowsk Russia would have lost land to Russia.
@@Gabowsk nice Swadloon pic.
@@jgr7487 Actually, that's right. They would've been part of the same realm, essentially. I don't think that would've kept the balance of power though. Russia would've felt betrayed regardless.
@@Gabowsk you're right. if war doesn't break as soon as the Congress of Vienna ends, the death of Alexander I of Russia would start the War of Russian Succession.
As an italian I see this scenario as an absolute win!
S ame
Same here 🇩🇪
Judging from the pfp, a specific type of Italian...
@@achaeanmapping4408 yep 😐
there is distinct lack of dalmatia in this italy...
Honestly this is probably one of the best alternate history videos I've watched because instead of just a one sentence "what if" scenarios. It takes a somewhat unrealistic scenario with varied inputs but follows a realistic path to what we saw irl
This is why you can't let "My little dark age" edits creators become diplomats
Nah this was redditors fr
@@quempire2656The venn diagram of those two groups is basically a circle though.
@@quempire2656 there’s a difference?
As a German i must say this is a pretty decent timeline.
Italian here and same, we got everything we could have desired except for Dalmatia🇮🇹
Congress of Vienna but everyone who signed it was drunk:
Someone should really make a Victoria 2 mod based off this would be awsome
Also if someone does do this mod could you add an option to create Mittelafrika that would be cool if done
that's never going to happen
@@fish5671 maybe not but it would be cool
I love this series it gives the viewers the opportunity to change things and creates a messy alternative history scenario
This timeline is both hilarious and horrifying. I want to see it continued. Maybe a smaller video in what the United States is doing along this dumpster fire of a period in alternate history.
They probably wouldn't have much weight, and I don't think the American Civil War changes all that much so prob not much difference except the US being way less relevant in this alternate WW1 than in our timeline
This carnage in Europe probably means a constant flow of immigrants from Europe to America. This is good in the long term, but nativism was really strong at this time in the States, so you’d probably get more backlash from the WASPs.
Maybe the British bring the US in to hurt France and Spain in the new world once a war kicks off. Or Russia sells Alaska to the US earlier. If other European nations are financially crippled, the US might purchase their territories in the new world.
@@CMitchell808Not to mention, the US went as far as implementing the exclusion act on the Chinese as they flooded in droves at the west, we would most likely see the same result in this timeline resulted from the massive influx of those immigrants flooding in.
Imagine living in this timeline
As an Italian I see this as an absolute win
The Berlin conference video is both exciting and terrifying
i bet it will all go to portugal
@@thatupsidedowncountryball Nah, Germany will get a lot of colonies instead. Oh and Belgium/Leopold II will get nothing.
I reckon
>mittelafrika
>pink map
>France gets nothing except Algiers
>boer South Africa
Realistically it will probably be what would be the what seem to be most important actions
@@mappingshaman5280also british/german morocco
You should also let your viewers decide on the post-WW1 borders, because this interactive concept is hilarious and I love the viewer integration. Plus I also want to see exactly how many nations get salty over the handiwork of the world's worst diplomats.
Yes
Post-WW2 borders might be an even better idea now that I thought more about this, as the original idea for this thing did come from another person doing it for WW1.
I am curious how this scenario will turn out 🙂
Edit: the way you made this alternative scenario was genius and so in depth it was really great
Probably horribly
Jeez it turned out worse than i could've imagined
You must joke with the edit lmao.
@@genovayork2468 why would it be an joke?
@@jeroenboth167 You're telling me you're not joking?
The voters of this thing truly acted like Total War/Paradox AI
Or maybe they are geniuses who went all in for Italian and German unification
Germany and Brittain now thats one hell of a tag team
Man, this is big-time slayage in Europe, as the viewers want more border-gore in Germany that I guess mappers would have a hard time drawing its borders.
Can we border gore the Americas? They are too peaceful for their own good
It actually makes me angry that all the redditors came out in force absolutely ruined the map lol
If that was the case all of europe would have been gray
Yeah “ poland litherinooo is so wholesome chungus 100 reddit gold!”
Catalunia!!!!@@quempire2656
@@quempire2656"hurr durr pootin bad he clearly was alive in the 19th century!"
@@quempire2656 i love poland lithuania as well, but even i knew making russia lose land was the worst idea ever. i did not advocate for PL to be restored either cause it would kill europe. when i saw that super massive PL get restored my jaw dropped
Guys! Do we really deserve a second chance after the horrors we've created?
Yes! Let's see how badly we can mess up the world next time! It'll be great!
No no we don't we would just cause a mass extinction because of that
Speaking about humiliating Spain, we forgot to give Galicia to Portugal since that tends to happen everytime in alternate history.
As a German, I love this scenario ❤
this is the perfect timeline
Fr Fr
Realistically it puts Germany in best position with more possibilities to carve ottomans and Russia and France
In the scramble for Africa video there should be a poll to give all of Africa to Portugal, everyone votes yes and the video is 20 seconds long
Europe: *burns down*
Possible History: Discord! How could this happen?! You said you were watching it!
Discord: I was. It was beautiful!
With the brilliant maneuvers of the YT voters, WW1 broke out 60 years early
The maneuvers were not that bad, just that the youtuber is incompetent and makes fun of the audience.
@@genovayork2468the things that we voted on were terrible
@@yets0 Apart from Russia, Sardinia and maybe Catalonia, no.
@@genovayork2468 the audience deserves it. That map is atrocious and could only exist if all the treaty makers were taking copious amounts of drugs.
@@silentnight6810 Why?
16:03 Awesome man! Gonna be right there and lets hope for a better outcome🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉
An indipendent venice would have never wanted to join italy under the monarchy of the savoy
As a german I see this as an absolute win
Thinking about it, without the German Empire becoming fascist, there is nothing inherently bad about German domination in Europe
dude just insults us throughout the video AND I LOVE IT
Holy Tree, that deplomacy was absolute fire 🔥🔥🔥 You can't lie, it's impressive how we managed to destroy Europe in like 30 years! Like frfr we did it
Absolute dumpster fire.
We did it reddit! We caused a world war...
Yeah actually you managed to start another major war 20 years early
You should definitely do this with the WW2 peace treaties, loving this series already :)
Morgenthau will look like a Nazi apologist.
This map is insane but I wonder how it plays out 🙂
Best intro for a video you ever made, absolutily love it xD
having your viewers redraw various regions borders in the most atrocious way possible and then just guessing what would happen afterwards is an extremely funny video format
If the map which i wanted happened, WW1 would immediately break out.
I'm really interested in seeing a video on "What if Napoleon Lived to See 1850s". Third time the charm, baby!
the irony of him saying that this timeline would be worse, when from everything he is talking about, it seems way better than the real timeline, for every single country except Russia, but even for them, it's not that bad since they still gained land in relation to pre-french revolution europe
Yeah due to the unreasonable punishments of not only the loosing countries But also the winning countries, I could see a new alliance between the most punished countries, France, Russia, and Denmark.
France was barely punished. Anyway such an alliance would be excrement.
We need a third part of this, good video.
I voted in pretty much every instance in the interest of preserving balance of power and basically letting France keep what they kept in our timeline, and mostly sticking to our timeline in everything, except trying to push for a small but more independent Poland and a less Austrian controlled Italy with a much stronger Sardinian buffer state
Congratulations! You contributed to the creation of an early Italy!
I voted to punish France and their allies but not too harshly, reward anti napoleon powers but not too much and try and create great powers to balance one another out e.g big Venice and big sardinia
As a french i almost had hope to see a competant Napoleon III but we've been cruched even with big bro russia's help ;-;
I mean napoleon iii was quite competent, he just wasn't his uncle
@@mappingshaman5280 i know but he underestimated his ennemies and his generals were bad on the front
In the end, they _were_ facing the veritable twin navy/army juggernauts of Europe. Britain and Germany would complement each other stunningly well if circumstances gave them shared foes.
@@gengarzilla1685 not to forget that one of the best generals at the time after napoleon were von Moltke
This just shows how good the real Congress of Vienna was in maintaining balance in Europe
Honestly great content, really fascinating to see how good the real treaty of vienna has been
0:12 Is that amount of border gore in and around what would be modern-day Germany… normal?
yea that is what germany looked like in otl
Ok. Thanks.
The Holy Roman Empire was a mess
This is after the Holy Roman Empire but the borders mostly looked the same as the hre
As a hungarian I see this as an absolute win
His map of Hungary makes no sense
@@Perrirodan1yeah, the scenario is quite unlikely. If a Hungarian revolution is successful, then it would still be at war with the Habsburg-loyal Croatians. And if the Hungarians were successful then Vienna was successful as well and has deposed the Habsburgs.
Finally Italy and Germany arent the only two collapsed
Loved the mr bismark reference 'damned thing in the balkans' lol
Rah the berlin conference, I can just tell people are gonna give britain like no colonies and half of Africa to germany
Your videos are so cool thank you
Honestly, this is a great timeline
9:25 I'm absolutely mesmerized by this transition thingy
Huge fan of yours fr LATAM! Colombian here! Please consider doing a perfect episode for us! 🇨🇴🇨🇴🇨🇴🇨🇴🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏
You should again make one for the restore of Vienna (the war at the end)
Viewer scenario: what if at any point in history since chiles creation, the rest of the world just kinda decided to give all their coast to Chile (with the exception of small island like Jamaica, larger ones like the ones in Indonesia still give their coast to Chile) if you want an advanced edition, you could also give continents away to their respective noodle country, like Vietnam gets asia, either Croatia or Norway gets europe, maybe Somalia gets africa and Chile could either get all of the americas or Panama gets the north and Chile just the south.
I feel like we need to do this again XD although the Africa Conference coming up sounds nice as well
As a German I see this as an absolute Win
I was waiting for this video! Spicing your videos up with some chaos always puts a smile on my face, thank you!
As an Italian I honestly really like this alternate future
I unironically love this concept, I wanna see more!
Mistake? No no, this was the plan.
3:44 in germany, italy and Spain too, many people forget it bc Spain was already united but they would have 100% reunited after that like the germans did.
You need to make more videos about the future of europe whose borders are being made by the geostrategists of HOI4
14:14 sind damn foolish things in the balkans, is this an Otto von Bismarck reference ?
*Russia doesn't get a specific acre of land in what is today Belarus, Ukraine, and Poland.*
*A few decades later, this causes Germany to conquer Europe.*
It may be one of many possibilities, but what an interesting domino effect of events that was.
its not just they don't get land, its also that they loose land unfairly (and a fair amount of it too)
@@matthiuskoenig3378 was that pun intended?
This series is awesome man! Keep it coming🙌🏻🙌🏻
Wake up guys! Possible history updated!🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉
Love your videos😊
You were first
@@EnochtheIntellectualNOBODY GIVES A FUU
@@coldestvr_Fr
Can you do a non serious video on "What if the Hussite Reformation managed to conquer the world" (it would be funny) ?
This channel is underrated
The only thing that I'd find unplausible is Spain helping Fr and Ru in a massive European war, because they almost have nothing to gain by angering the two most indutrious and powerful empires. I could also see Germany annexing Courland and breaking Livonia off Russia to cut off Riga and hamper their Baltic Fleet's power projection, but leaving Lithuania as its own separate subservient duchy or under Polish rule is more probable than being annexed by Ge, since there is little to nothing to gain by annexing foreign unruly agricultural land tht gives you a huge border with the power you just declared victory over.
The Baltic Duchies actually held some German nobility if I'm not mistaken. I don't see Germany annexing Lithuania either though since they actually aren't German, but there is still the possibility that Britain told Germany no on the Baltics so they pushed for Lithuania instead. We have to remember that the Germany of this timeline has an influx of Austrians who are used to accounting for unruly peoples, not to mention that Germany in general is *much* stronger since this is Greater Germany, not Lesser Germany.
I liked a lot the background music, nice choices!
If you live anywhere other than Europe this is a great timeline
Soo happy to hear about more polls
Very good video, Honestly it was a very complex scenario and the conclusion was farily realistic. I have, however, two small nitpicks
1. Brittany and Catalonia would of have succumbed to the liberal revolutions of the early 19th century: Nationalism as a concept began spreading in the liberal revolutions that followed napoleons conquest so I dont think proper separatist sentiments existed in this provinces to keep them separated from their original countries. I cant really speak for brittany (as I dont really know about it`s history and maybe the british would have a special interest in mantaining the independence of a brittanic state and help mantain their independence) but in the case of catalonia, catalonian nationalism didnt appear until much latter, during the 1870´s (after the final defeat of the carlists and a movemet of cutural resurgence spreaded across the catalonian petite bourgeoisie that led to the birth of a proper catalonian identity) so this new catalonian state would be left in limbo, existing for the purpose of being a buffer state between France and Spain and needing of great power assistance to fend of pro spanish rebels. And even so, considering the events that were taking place in spain (The 8 de mayo had just happend, a liberal-patriotic revolution to restore a propper spanish government over spain, and the one that was arround the corner, the "pronunciamiento de riego", a liberal revolution that in our timeline was done to force the king to accept the constitution written by the spanish people during french ocupation and that was surly going to be stronger in this one) for as much assistance as they could get, in the end, the wave of spanish panationalists to appeare in catalonia would probably not be defeated without a full invasion of the province (which whitout french support is almost imposible)
2. Napoleon the third could of have comed much earlier into power : Considering how humiliating the peacedeal was for France, its almost certain one of the objectives of the bourgeoisie within france (hence one of the factors that will drive the liberal revolutions at the begining of the century) would be to restore the old french borders. Its also posible that amongs fench society (particularly romantic circles), the times of napoleon are remembered with much more nostalgia, as the times when france was at the peak of its power and had complete territorial integrity. As such, its posible that one of napoleons early coup attemps could of have had greater succes than ir our timeline.
1) Nationalism would have strengthened Brittany and possibly catalonia.
In the case of the Bretons, they were not really French until well after the 1870s, very few even spoke french as a 2nd language even in the 1870s and their language and culture isn't even close to french (being much closer to Welsh), Brittany was culturally integrated into france by the efforts of the republics and emperors, mostly by the 3rd republic. Being indepedant the nationalists instead push for Breton nationalism and culture rather than OTL french government quashing it. OTL As part of France you had strong Breton nationalist movements, with Breton indepedance movements resisting the 1st republic and aiding the British including literal uprisings in the 1790s (and ahistory of anti-french revolts long before that). breton peasants even in the 1870s were considered too monarchist, separtist and disloyal (and what we would now call concentration camps were actually set up during the franco-prussian war for bretons). Basically what i am saying is the only way Brittany falls to nationalism is an extrnal french invasion driven by nationalism in france (not french nationalims by bretons).
The Catalonians are much closer to the Spainish then the Bretons are to the french, but even they are distinctly different to the Spainish, we a not mutually intelligible language and a distinct culture. catalan nationalism came later IRL, but indepedance would build it up earlier, although Spainish nationalism is still a possibility.
2) largely agree
@@matthiuskoenig3378also about 1) it would probably cause other minor nations that are distinct enough from their main countries to wants independence
This was a great video concept ❤ . Would live to See this series return.
Someone should make this a Victoria 3 mod.
A part 2/3 to continue this timeline would be nice
Nice video as always! I think I disagree, however, that Russia would ever accept 2nd partition borders in the scenario you outlined. Nicholas's throne is unstable as his brother *just* got assasinated for not promoting somewhat hawkish policies and taking over Poland. Between getting overthrown by a coup and securing Russian gains in Poland at a military cost, the Russians would go into Poland; and the coalition of great powers to assemble would be smaller, as I don't think France would *ever* side with the Coalition on a dispute after their mutilated peace treaty. So it'd essentially be Austria, Prussia, and Germany, alongside the UK (and possibly the ottomans or sweden, but sweden's more unlikely) fighting Russia; a fight they could possibly win, if it ever broke out.
Or maybe the Congress diplomats just back down, which would be a *massive* failure in the eyes of the public (especially in Britain, where this matters), as the Congress of Vienna fails to keep the peace, prosperity & cooperation it has offered to promote through it's signing, but instead has created major enemies within France and Russia that feel their own pride and national honor is wounded.
In my personal opinion, the major world war we have at the end would either be a rapid Franco-Russian victory, or a sluggish war that ends with their defeat. They can EASILY knock out Germany with their numbers alone, especially as the Prussian army isn't *fully* modernized yet, and the differences in artillery technology/tactical strategy wouldn't be as decisive early on. Plus, some of the major commanders on the French side, including Napoleon, aren't old as fuck, so they should be better players in this war than they were in the 1871 one.
But I don't think it's a forgone conclusion Germany overpowers the Franco-Russian alliance. The German states are still disorganized after *just* having a revolution, and their military command would need to become one, which can lead to squabbling on it's leader's behalf; whilst Russia already MASSIVELY outnumbers the German forces, and France has more experience and knowledge on logistics & warfare in general. If the battles are victories, I think nothing would stand in the way for a German defeat.
the germans might also be hampered by anti-liberal forces willing to work with especially the russians to undo liberal reforms.
I love this type of alternate history, do you think that you could maybe make a full alternate history series, from say, 1814, all the way to the modern day? That would be amazing!
I Dunno, even though Britain was more industrialized than the other nations it was still not a lot in real terms. I think Germany would be stalemated if not overrun eventually by France/Spain/Russia. Through attrition, there are no massive railroads yet.
Also, with the addition of southern Germany to Austria, they might actually be stronger and not weaker in this timeline.
Lombardy was the most valueble province in Austria. Just southern Germany is not enough. Mabye if we took the map today it would be stronger
@@EviMjau Southern Germany had a lot of population Austria needed, "core" German pop to mobilize.
I love how you quoted Bismarck
Love this alternative look back made by the viewers, Seeing our consequences on video.
Literally Hoi 4’s Pax Brittainica map in the 1850s ( ͡ಥ ͜ʖ ͡ಥ)
‘Britian already has two rouge great powers to deal with and nobody to help them’
Only two??
This is great. I love the "my viewers are fools (true)" theme. Also, I'm going to be stereotypically American and ask: "What about America in this timeline?" In particular, the US experienced a lot of immigration between 1820 and 1860, especially from distressed areas of Russia, Germany, Italy and the eastern Hapsburg Empire. This scenario could change that human outflow quite a lot and effect the character of the industrializing US in this period.
Yeah more eastern Slavs would arrive and I can see also more French or Dutch arriving. Would make the old migration period different
It's unlikely that mass immigration from Eastern Europe would be possible in the middle of the 19th century. The main obstacle would be the cost of trans-atlantic journey at that time especially for Eastern europeans that were poorer than your average brit german or frenchman.
In our timeline mass imigration to US from Southern & Eastern Europe only kicked in early 20th century as trans-atlantic journey became cheaper and Eastern Europeans became wealthier.
Nonetheless some migrations would still eventually occure but probably in different destinations.
well there are more wars in this timeline so more immigration:
-you have a world war in the 1850/60s
-russian invasion of poland before this
-Austrian civil war and partision before this (on much bigger scale than irl hungarian revolt, since it isn't crushed easily by russian intervention and combines with the brothers war)
-French and spainish invasions
-an earlier pre-1850s Italian wars of unification
- a larger dutch revolt
you basically have all the conflicts of IRL europe (and more) in half the length of time, This probably means more people trying to get in the us in the 1815-1860 period, however this is only going to drive up the cost of the movement in a period it was already expensive. meaning its still probably only wealtheir europeans that move across (which means its probably still mostly northwest Europeans), but the larger potential market is likely to drive more investment in improveing trans-atlantic crossings mostly to reduce costs.
Realistically it don’t change much, beyond maybe dismantling most of the pale of settlements or not letting it be formed that might caused smaller Jewish populations
@@chimera9818 idk if the Jewish Populations will be smaller, it probably will jus not be limited to the pale
16:00 Oh no...
literally yall went "lets punish the victors" and then are surprised that they get angry about it
commenters: "let's punish the people who defeated napoleon and lost loads of people for it"
major powers: *don't agree*
commenters: *surprised Pikachu face*
You should get us to vote on the restore Vienna peace deal, or another peace deal in this same timeline.
hola, espero que entiendas español, yo haria que francia dejara de existir, napoleon fallo y francia es divida entre españoles y alemanes, dejando paris dividida en 2, españa llegaria hasta tolosa-oeste y se quedaria con belgica; alemania por otro lado se quedaria con la parte este de paris, se quedaria también con Luxemburgo, con suiza, con la parte este de paris y tolosa, y llegaria hasta andorra, ademas agregaria a alemania lo que es dinamarca, noruega, suecia y los paises balticos
ahora tambien agregaria italia, porque italia se quedaria con corsega, serdeña, todo lo que son los balcanes, pero con la siguiente excepcion, que aqui habria un resurgimiento griego asi que todo lo que estoy nombrando para italia en verdad es para grecia, que ademas se quedaria con bulgaria y moldavia
a estas alturas las fronteras alemanas llegarian hasta crimea y se quedarian con los limites de ucrania y bielorrusia, y se daria en este universo, en esta parte de europa, limite de grecia con alemania
en conclusion polonia, francia y otros dejarian de existir
🤣😂😹💥💢🤟🏼✌🏼🤙🏼🏁🏴🏳🔲🔳🔱💱🛄🗺🛃🛫🛬🌍🌎🌏
Why does it translate to a bunch of hearts💀
.
me gustaría agregar también que parte del reparto de francia se haga hacia inglaterra, así francia quedaría dividido entonces entre alemanes, españoles e ingleses
This Scenario is SUPERIOR!! in every way and i'm telling that as a POLE
To be honest this Great War might be triggered by the American civil war since Britain and France nearly intervened in our own timeline
France also invaded Mexico at that time so it could be the last straw
@@board-qu9iu so yeah… this time it’s probably not a dam thing in the balkans
on the flip side the crimean war happened around this time irl long before the ACW, and would likely cause a great war in this timeline.
@@matthiuskoenig3378 if it even happens cause truth be told…
Pretty sure the Ottomans would likely just concede to the Russians in this timeline with Austria out of commission and Britain really the only one who would likely help…
Ironically negotiating is a possibility
@@the-angel-of-light-gardevoir8 honestly didn't consider the Ottomans just concedeing, largely because that would likely cause them to loose face with their empire, most importantly egypt.
then again would egypt even be part of the ottomans in this timeline, as the ottomans only won the 1st ottoman-egypitian war in the 1830s and the 2nd in the 1840s due to russian intervention, would the russians of this timeline support the ottomans or aide the egyptians in exchange for land from the ottomans and an alliance? its possible the Ottomans are little more than a rump state in the 1850s in this timeline.
I like the new edits and editing style
Being german, I actually like this timeline, a powerful germany this early might calm the militarists in prussia down and preserve peace, who knows, few timelines will be as catastrophic for germany as the real one ^^
Better timeline: Austria unifies germany instead of Prussia and you dont have to deal with the militarists and junkers at all
@@aarongodinez9022 Those militarists are still necessary in the 19th century though, when no one was overly squeamish about military expansionism
@@hothoploink1509 Why is military expansionism a given? in real life Europe was mostly stable until Prussia and Piedmont ruined the system.
@@aarongodinez9022 If I remember correctly the french declared the franco prussian war because of a percieved insult. Yes they were manipulated, but it shouldn't have been that easy. The late 19th century was still volatile enough that modern pacifism would be detrimental to a country.
@@hothoploink1509 The Franco-Prussian war is irrelevant. The balance of power was already destroyed after the Austro-Prussian War, which was a show of blatant Prussian aggression. The Prussians were offered Holstein but they refused it because Bismarck wanted war. Weak Austria = Unstable Europe. They were always the balancing power. The unifications of Germany and Italy both came at the expense of Austria and thus seriously destabilized Europe.
and on 15:14 to protect the people in the part that is cald belguim you have chould murch it with the nederlands
We need a hoi4 mod abt this