Carrying that much isn't unrealistic, the speed of movement is unrealistic. Reforger is still missing inertia of the character. Changing direction is too abrupt. If you carry 30kg of gear, you are super slow compared to say a normal 15-20kg. Especially going prone or crouch and getting back up. Anybody who went hiking with 30kg knows. You feel like a freight train. Also, the backpack should be treated like a storage you have to manually access. Reloading your gun with mags from backpack is a bit goofy. If they get movement and access penalty right, I don't see a problem. A premium would be a system like fuel for cars, where your character will slowly deplete his energy levels depending on activity. It will give that realistic touch of being reasonable with your energy - "natural laziness" if you will. Nobody would vault over a 1,8m fence in full gear if there is a door etc.
Good stuff. I like the idea about reloads from the backpack being effectively not possible. That way you would need to put everything for immediate use on your vest or pants
Having 30 RPK mags is basically equivalent to the modern standard loadout of a M249 gunner, who typically carries 1000-1600 rounds split up between 200 rnd boxes, 100 rnd nutsacks, or just loose belts. Also someone else would carry ammo too. The issue I take with this isn’t about the realism, it’s about wasting supplies. IRL you are more likely to actually use that much ammo because you do a lot of suppressive fire, because dying matters. In games people take huge risk and often die with most of their ammo. Tats why I take like 8-10 mags and if I survive a fight I’m normally near an arsenal or dead bodies to loot. The biggest supply wasters are the combo PKM & SVD with 10 belts and 20 SVD mags.
>Having 30 RPK mags is basically equivalent to the modern standard loadout of a M249 gunner In terms of round count, yes. In terms of weight and how you load your spare belts into your kit/bag, hell no.
@@videogames9415 30 45rd RPK mags weight in at about 47.40lbs so its not really too heavy. How you would fit that into the confines of your back pack and chest rig im not so sure but who cares US teams can shove 7 rocket launchers into their backpacks if they want. Its a video game it cant be perfect but its pretty close while still being fun to play.
@@Stewbe web gear + soviet harnesses/lifchiks + bags need to be reworked, I think most people can agree on that. The fact that the backpacks/vests are simply "storage %" with few exceptions, it should be pouch availability and physical space somethign takes up on the respective bag/rig.
the RPK was the USSR's oddball doctrine tossup, much like the USMC running into SOP problems with the m27. An m27 is not an m249 and several units showed displeasure at that fact, same with the RPK. The RPK was not the RPD, and the soviets had to retrain on it hard. On paper, the RPK is the soft suppressor for the PKM in the squad. RPK gunner was to have 1 45rnd mag loaded, when contact was made he would shoot off that 45 rounder to let the PKM team get ready. With the PKM now up, he would reach into his machine gunner rig and grab the 1 75 rounder he had to compliment the PKMs fire. After that, he would rely on whatever 45 rounders he could stash or the squads/fireteams abundance of 30 round mags. Doctrinally in arma, someone with an RPK should only be carrying between 1 to 4 RPK mags and a 75 rounder. But this isn't IRL and we dont have the squad cohesion with randos like any of the devs would want. So to make up for the fact we dont have the 75 round mags, and no one is coming to give you ammo you might as well carry what you think will get you to the next fight. I carry about 7 mags for the RPK, it gets me through one fight and if i get to a second fight i might be boned depending on how it goes. My main gripe tho is the 2 main weapon slot design choice instead of locked launcher spot and that leads to bollywood level rambo loadouts that drains front line points faster than a dedicated 9 man construction team spamming sandbags and floodlights
What i wrote before and ill write here again. People dont understand or cant pinpoint as an argument, that you CAN bring 30 mags, its not impossible at all. Chuck em in a backpack and boom, organic ammo supply. BUT YOU SHOULDNT ACCESS THEM EASILY FROM YOUR BACKPACK. If you need em, you have to drop the backpack and pick em up. This is the biggest reason realism games fail, because they dont showcase those small but incredibly important details. Its not "milsim" to have 6 mags only, its milsim to have the freedom to do whatever you want, but with the NATURAL CONSEQUENCES AND LAWS governing what you can and cannot do, aka REAL LIFE SIMULATION. (A plate carrier can hold say 8 mags total, you wouldnt fit 30 in there without significant consequences to your locomotion etc.) Great video as always. Arma will wither if it becomes like squad. Not everything needs to be a copy of another. Make arma ARMA.
I like your idea, but to make it more user-friendly (and not need to drop the backpack, look at it and access it), you could have a system where moving something from or to the backpack incurs a time-penalty. It could be implemented by a per-item timer, or by an animation sequence where upon accessing or closing the backpack, your character kneels and places the backpack in front of you so it makes you vulnerable while organizing the contents. Players on your team, could access your backpack while it's on your back without the same time penalty, encouraging teamwork.
@@RAF33Strike I understand your point, but honestly i disagree: Id rather have an animation, put it down, and pick stuff up. That feels a lot more personal, cool, immersive, and has gameplay implications due to enemies seeing what you are doing, making this a more deliberate action than a "time penalty" if that makes sense. Imo arma is awesome because of those small details; being in the game instead of playing a game.
@@RAF33Strikehave you ever tried taking things in and out of a backpack on your back? If you need to resupply your chest rig or pockets you would most definitely take it off to as quickly as possible fill up rather than tumbling blindly on your back
arma character control and inertia is significantly more game-ified than squad. Both games have very arcady game-loops with excessive respawn-ability. Arma realism only shines in private, organized events. The same goes for squad realism, though there are no realism communities in squad and the platform is far too limited compared to arma's modularity
I agree that non-fixed lodaouts are a good thing in Reforger - it's sandbox game after all. However, as someone who often runs supplies I would argue, that you more often die, before you even use half of that amount of ammo.
Well, where your “mechanical realism” breaks down is because in “real life” you’d need to also bring with you water, food, shelter, sleeping gear, etc etc Can a human carry 30 magazines? Absolutely? Can they carry 30 mags while also carrying everything they need to survive? No. I don’t expect Arma to add food, water, and sleep requirements to Conflict - but I’d definitely support a limit below 30 mags to emulate this “real world” limitation. As a support weapon operator, ideally the systems should be designed to force you to have a buddy be an ammo carrier. Overall your “kinetic” vs “organizational” realism argument is sorta just flawed - cause if you try and live by the “if it can physically happen in real life then I should be able to do it” it cuts both ways. Leaning on that format of “realism” just opens the door to “but respawns aren’t realistic”, “you can’t recover from a bullet wound in 2 mins, it should be 6 months of PT”, etc. Down that road there is only madness. I agree with lots of your points, but this is definitely one area I massively disagree. This just reads like “I like my goofy overburdened load out and don’t like people telling me it’s bad”
It's why I feel realism for the sake of realism arguments always fall flat. You want fights to be realistic, you HAVE to implement either all the mechanics that go into the fights, including context like what people carry in their rucks for survival that offset their ability to only pack for a fight, or you have to impose restrictions to simulate what limitations those sort of mechanics would impose. At the end of the day, developers have to pick and choose because the route of making all the supporting mechanics means you have to develop hundreds, if not thousands of interwoven and complicated systems to truly replicate what a real engagement and the leadup to that engagement would be like, not to mention the performance issues that a truly realistic simulation would impose. Instead, it would be much easier to go down the route of creating restrictions that emulate things like what you'd carry alongside your combat load. Less performance overhead, doesn't require making mechanics that players don't really care to engage with, and allows the developers to work on mechanics that create real depth and make bigger strides towards replicating the experience they want to give players.
I carried 800 rounds for my 249, 1 porkchop in, 2 on my IOTV, and 1 in my assault pack; for the 240 I'd personally carry something like 150-400 rounds, 50 in a starter belt and the rest coiled in a pouch and my AG had 600-800 rounds dependent on space in their pack; context is my time as a combat engineer
I would guess your point here is, this is how much I carried, therefore yes you can carry a lot. However, he is carrying 1400 rounds in this video so even if we take the high end of what you're saying with 800 rounds, he is carrying 600 more rounds, nearing double the amount you are talking about with no bulk to him at all. I would also like to know if this was going on long assault-like missions or not because from the conflict we see today it is extremely rare for the storming group to have 800 rounds on one person, however, the entrenched fighters often have this much for an MG. Let me know.
@Kaade_Z That amount was for your generic, scene perfect live fire exercise, or in other words what you carry onto the objective- I'd need at least that much more ammo in my large ruck or in my vehicle to resupply from, it's easy to go black on ammo as support by fire without a proper wiesel guiding you; I'm also of the opinion that game loadouts should be incredibly liberal on ammo amounts to promote suppression
@@Kaade_Zfor a suppression weapon like a 249 600-800 rounds will go by very quick, i met saww gunners that carried at least 1200+ rounds on themselves maybe more and when it's a heavier round like the 240 it's always mission dependent and what your job is that guy was a combat engineer different missions than what infantry would do
One thing pvp games will never simulate is losing your balance and falling. Yes you can physically carry 30 rpk mags, but if you back up too suddenly your backpack might put you on your ass. Helldivers 2 and Ghost Recon Breakpoint come to mind for ragdolling due to explosions or traversing steep terrain. But in pvp it would be very annoying. Funny as hell tho when you crash a car and your whole team is sent flying becuase there are no seatbelts
Hey, the game only considers weight but not the volume in liters of items. I'm not sure if such a backpack could carry this much magazine. Typically, realism in mind, one would have to carry extra barrels, for rapid fire one would have to replace the barrel every 2 minutes and sustained fire typically calls for barrel swap every 10 minutes. What I also don't like about the game is that it doesn't address encumbrance into any gameplay apart from faster stamina drain. While the game should have walking and running redesigns about these concepts. In every ARMA and other tactical shooters you can walk and run to sides and backwards without any remorse to terrain like rocky, uphill downhill, heavy vegetation, bushes, water, sandy etc. You can't lose your footing, fall, slip, entangle etc. One can run miles uphill in rocky terrain, backwards with 40kg of extra weight like it's nothing, while in reality its twisted ankle and butt on the ground. Also, dropping on the ground and getting back up is easy. Weight does not shift center mass and is not tipping thr balance as it should. I'd add mechanics similar to game Death Stranding to address that. Since a good portion of the game is actual walking anyways and it was always like that in ARMA I'd consider building on those mechanics mini games like whole death stranding is about. This makes route planning and walking more deliberate, logistic and organic gameplay.
If you take a backpack like this and stuff it with mags I'm sure it could hold 22 RPK mags. Realistically of course you would have other stuff in a backpack as a soldier, like basic necessities, rations, water, some underwear, ... Extra barrels for sure is an idea, which mods will have at some point. I know they did it in A3. With the 40 round mags of the RPK you usually don't sustain 10 minutes of full auto fire though I would argue.
One mag is 280x65x25 mm in size. I could easily fit 20 mags in my relatively small backpack in just one compartment. They would require only 280x350x100 mm of space. So, volume is not a limiting factor at all.
Exactly. Exactly that. Developers are afraid of simulation, because they are scared of backlash from the dummies that want cheap thrills in a milsim game..... My biggest argument is that games should NATURALLY simulate the details of real life; That doesnt mean you have to "show the horrors of war oh my god ptsd bla bla", but the things that matter that influence your decisions. And honestly, even with something simple like walking, having a proper simulated locomotion would make everything so much more fun to go through. (altho that doesnt mean arma should be a walking simulator, because its not.)
Nobody in any situation ever carrys 30 mags.. don't understand why you are trying to bring real life into it. Nobody cares if you agree to die because some old man told you to 😂
You carry 30+ kg But you don't combat in that much usually. Anyone who has walked a few hours with 30+kg and gotten into a training firefight knows how much different that is from regular tactical training with 10-15kg of gear
@@TennessseTimmy Yes this is true. Once in contact you would normally drop packs and retain your webbing, which would hold around 15kg. This would have water, small amounts of food and then your ammo. Also nav gear, cleaning kits etc. For the others, I’m not saying carrying 30 mags is realistic but technically it could be done in the pack. But you would have to remove sleeping gear, extra clothes etc.
Magazine's take up WAY more volume and weight than belted ammo. the issue is stuffing over 30 RPK mags in a pack that couldn't realistically CONTAIN that amount of physical volume. Its a classic game abstraction problem of deciding on how item storage should be handled; either based on weight, equipment slots, or volume. Reforger tries to do all three, but fails to communicate it very well, and its a problem I feel no game has found a perfect solution for.
I would say a good change would be for the player to not be able to reload or reload 50-70% slower from backpacks. Reloading from a backpack you have on your back shouldnt be as fast as the mag being on your rig. And in general using items from your backpack should be way slower than having them in "pockets" or your rig. From reloading to opening the map to finding the bandage.
I love how people are like you need to have to take the backpack off to get the magazines out. Okay, so how far do we want to go with this logic? If you are shot in the chest are you going to need to take your vest/armor off to effectively bandage the wound? How about taking your helmet off to bandage a wound? Single player Tarkovs realism mod does this and I had to turn that off because the system isn’t streamlined enough to quickly perform medical on yourself. I know this is about ammo and such and I kind of agree that you shouldn’t have access to all 30 mags in your backpack without changing them out to your vest. Also it is completely realistic to have that much ammo on you but the weight will affect you and people think they are faster than they actually IRL moving around. Play VR shooters and react to someone shooting behind you and you’ll quickly realize you are nowhere near as fast as you are in other games where your medium of control is a controller or mouse and keyboard. Rant done. Love the content keep it up!
I think that the hate is coming from ppl's trauma from witnessing eternally newb players who spend 30 mins at armory, pack 50kg of random crap, hog supplies and then die in 1 minute, respawn and repeat. It cool to play the game the way you want, but teams lose for a reason. Not claiming that's you.
I think players learn over time to conserve supplies because they move faster and after some time after that they want to conserve supplies to not disappoint their team. it appears to be normal for new players wanting to experiment with gear at the armory.
Agreed. And thats a big issue where nonsensical misplaced bias is seeping into opinions, twisting them into more nonsense. Its a shame, cuz it can fuck up a game.
@@caracal3892 maybe most, but I've seen quite a few players who seem to be stuck in this for weeks/months, reacting to friendly suggestions with anger and "shut up and let me play the way I want".
Depends on what army/war. In Ukraine people prefer to carry more ammunition because sometimes you won't get ammo when you directly need it that's why everyone has a ammo bearer. Most armies have around 7 mags in their standard rifleman load out.
Arma >> Squad, if you want to make squad with arma, mod it that way. If you want to make Arma out of Squad, good luck... Squad is like reading a book, arma is writing your own
I agree squad is not the way. But it definitelly needs a realism touch to it, like real inertia of character and no automatic access to items inside a backpack(tarkov like)
I mean conflict game mode is moving in the Squad direction. This is the first arma game where I can play a default game mode and it's fun, and I think part of that is because it has taken some inspiration from Squad. I agree they are different but I'm not going to diss squad too much it has a lot of good features
@@__soap__ no, it's not moving to squad unless you mean by "moving in squad direction" that there are 2 teams fighting for multiple points on the map (which squad didn't invent). I haven't played squad for a while, but as far as I can remember squad gameplay is much more linear and restricted, while conflict game mode is asymmetric and open, there is no faction point system, no roles, no predefined load outs. It's much more open in many ways than anything squad delivers and therefore offers a different gameplay.
So, about 22.3 lbs of ammo (10.12 kg) has been determined to be the maximum amount of ammo that the average soldier could comfortably carry. This was determined through military studies during the Cold War on the topic. That comes out to 18 magazines of 30-round AK74 magazines, so it would be a lesser number for 45-round RPK74 magazines. (That's 540 rounds of 5.45 with the AK74 mags) Now again, this is the maximum amount that can be COMFORTABLY carried, this doesn't mean you couldn't (and wouldn't) carry more. It just means any more would be very uncomfortable and weigh you down a great deal. The only game I can think of that actually attempts to somewhat realistically simulate what weight and encumbrance on a human body actually looks like is Death Stranding, and they had to design their game engine around doing just that. So I'm not expecting a realistic simulation of weight/encumbrance from Reforger. So, it's not unrealistic that you are carrying 30 RPK magazines. What is unrealistic is you carrying 30 RPK magazines and your character moving at the speed that he is, AND doing so on a sloped roof with a steep angle. But that's more a problem of games in general not being able to accurately simulate weight/encumbrance.
It all depends on the situation, and most warfighters whose primary weapon is an assault rifle will carry more than seven, if not on their immediate person at least in a pack or in a nearby vehicle, but the basic combat load is one in the rifle and six more at the ready. Basic Combat Load for SOF operators Special Operations Forces operators have their own needs, depending on the type of mission, they form their own basic combat load. It does not differ much from the regular army, except in maybe some specialized tools and equipment they use. Even though they can hold up to 14 Mags, most operators use the sides to carry a sidearm holster, grenades, fast-rope gloves, IFAK (Individual First Aid Kit), etc. It’s not all bullets, we have other needs, too. I've heard stories from my uncle when he was deployed back in the early 90's to Bosnia apart of a un peace keeping thing he would carry a rucksack full of ammo while on patrol. Also told me some wild stories of blue on blue as well where he came under fire from friendly tanks and was telling me it was just pure chaos working with the un forces.
i think ppl say its unrealistic bc irl a guy would have sustainment gear etc instead of full on mags but i get your point tho and agree its just ppl might be looking at it from a few different ways
I think it's a missed opportunity that empty mags are thrown away and that you cannot take a box of ammo with you and (re)pack mags on vanilla gameplay.
This is exactly the point. There are a ton of people saying “oh tons of people carry 30 mags.” They don’t. They just don’t. Like 10-12 mags sure but anything above that is carried in loose ammo. If you’re a machine gunner you have a buddy carrying ammo for you.
I think that spawning in bases can be disabled by altering the base Everon Conflict mission. I've done some adjustments in the past (like moving the bases around so we actually fight inside the towns). I ditched that in the past as I'm not able to afford a proper dedicated server to get a 128 player Refrogger server up and I guess no other server would run my preferred Conflict scenario anyway. My views pretty much align with you, caracal. I want: 1. Moving the bases to actually fight in towns 2. Giving medics a purpose (e.g. you don't die so quickly, instead you enter unconsciousness more often, so players have to get you back up) 3. Disabling radio spawns 4. Disabling cap point spawns 5. Reduce supply generation on cap points (giving supply runners more use)
When can we expect some gameplay from you bro ? Absolutely love the videos and your opinions but I’d love to see you play a conflict match and how you play, I think you’d be a great team player
Also note that using the specialized harnesses for e.g. Autorifleman or Machinegunner are kind of specialized to hold ammo for that type of weapon. In gameplay terms as I pointed out in the other video yesterday you can carry 2200 rounds (10 + 1 ammo boxes) with the SAW and an Alice backpack no problem with a weight of just above 60 kg, which will not even slow you down that much. For the M60 it is theoretically 12+1 ammo boxes, 100 rounds each (= 1300 rounds) with the Alice backpack. Which overdoes it a bit at a weight of 74 kg. But 600 rounds of 7.62 is a perfectly playable loadout. As I said you ideally want machinegunners to behave like machinegunners and not like sharpshooters with a belt-fed weapon. You want them to suppress and full auto in the general direction of the enemy, which sadly does not work in Reforger, as bulles impacting next to you have no impact on sight, hearing or aim of the one being shot at.
In my opinion, the best system we could use to mitigate the more ridiculous kits you can use is to switch to a more modular type of build (aka the army barbie, somewhat like tarkov but where you can attach things like dump pouches or admin pouches to alice rigs and similar rigs) where you can only use the more accessible ammunition and supplies in those and cannot straight out of the backpack, which is what Tarkov does. If you look up what MACVSOG LRRP teams were carrying into the jungle in Vietnam, a ridiculous amount of magazines and ammunition was not uncommon to see, but it was definitely not accessible to them easily in a combat environment.
It’s been a long time since I last played reforger so I don’t know as much about its mechanics as well as 3, but I think 3 does a pretty good job because it’s definitely doable if you have the space, but you get greatly reduced stamina and if you are too heavy you can only slow walk, stamina is even more important given that from what i remember at least, 3 has more realistic weapon sway and requires stabilization sometimes. It’s why they recommend having an “assistant gunner/ammo bearer”. It might also be more believable in 3’s setting given that nato has really lightweight guns and case less ammo. Btw caracals are really cool
I have a lot of respect for you making this video but I think you’re not understanding that military doctrine for Soviet SAW gunners is way different than US SAW gunners. The standard load is 8 RPK-74 mags with six stripper clips (15 rounds each). Minus the stripper clips this is actually represented in game if you spawn in a RPK-74 gunner they will be carrying 8 mags because Bohemia did their research. Also the harness for the RPK gunner will only hold 8 mags. Now if we are being generous for a max load someone would probably carry double that so 16 mags and 12 stripper clips (essentially 4 more mags) to give you a total of 20. So the average Soviet RPK-74 gunner at the very most would carry 20 mags essentially. On average they’d carry essentially 10. This not the same as the US SAW gunner who carries an average of 600 rounds or 2 boxes and spare belts. Plus you compare the RPK-74 which is a SAW to an M60 which is a machine gun like the PKM. I understand you were using these pictures as a point to show that people will carry more ammo than what is general issue but by not understanding that the two sides are not equal in doctrine I believe you have misrepresented this situation.
This is one of the reason i want ammo boxes and ammo repacking. Carrying 30 mags for yourself is unrealistic however holding onto 7 mags along side a few more in bullets would be more realistic. In ukraine for example ive heard that when storming a trench a single person can hold onto about 10 magazines along side ammo boxes sonetimes less depending on the unit. Obviously you cant carry 10 mags in a vest so they use backpacks so just like @UEemperor said, you shouldnt be able to access the magazines in the backpack as fast as you do now. In my opinion you shouldnt be allowed to reload if your mags are in your backpack until you put them in your vest. Ammo boxes would also weight less and be more disposable than magazines, adding ammo repacking would make people pick ammo boxes over mags as they weight less, also NO ONE in conflict goes through 30 mags. I like playing reforger realisticly with a small fireteam but that doesnt mean im invinsible from ambushes, mortars or bullets. 7 mags is ideal for a reforger life and if i make it through several objectives i either have a ammo bearer or resupply at a friendly base. Your loadout should cost no more than 150 supplies unless, youre a grenadier fighting during the night where you need 10 HEDP's and 10-20 flares. Look at what you need the more experience you have the better you know what you need, this isnt real life where you need to manage socks and shit to keep you mentally healthy in the field but i always laugh when i kill someone trying to push a base with a grenade launcher, a PKM, 20 nades and 20 of each medical supply.
You can carry 10 mags on your vest, 3 double mag pouches up front, then a couple more on both sides. But it's going to hamper your quick movements a lot when you try to shift directions.
Armies chooses a loadout because that’s what’s most effective with their constraints. If physical and organisational realism don’t roughly align, it means a mechanic or a constraint is missing or is not well parametrised.
Exactly. IRL, you are limited in space by sustainment and miscellaneous equipment you have to carry with you. In game, where eating, drinking, sleeping, hygeine, and backup gear aren't necessary, the space and weight that all would normally contribute isn't there, so you can theoretically just carry dozens of mags and upwards of thousands of rounds. Unless you made mechanics where you would need those sort of supplies to stay sufficient (not ideal for the intended experience and would cause unnecessary development) or implemented restrictions to emulate the same contraints found IRL (the more ideal solution, less dev work with less room for bugs and possible performance problems) you will not actually reflect reality and people will not play in a way that approaches the intended experience.
Fun fact if you search up death machine Vietnam you’ll find US Mac v-sog soldiers (special forces) holding m60 while wearing an ammo backpacks that hold up to 500 rounds which are fed straight into the gun. That weapon would be peak machine gunner. Alright so the Americans have that badass weapon so what would the Russians get as compromise? Well they’d the LPO-50 flamethrower
I think I disagree with the premise of not having classes. I think classes probably would benefit arma. But maybe if they had classes with the option to pick up other weapons as usual from the supply point as it works now
It is realistic to have an RPK gunner with 12 to 15 45round mags, specially if they're not required to maneuver through rough terrain. It's less than 1000 rounds. Very doable.
It's completely realistic for a real person to get as much ammo as possible to stop enemies. But in online shooter you just know that you won't use even 10 30-round mags.
30 5.45 magazines is more realistic than 5 7.62 PK ammo boxes. You weren’t running around from what I saw either so you weren’t going CoD commando with all that weight.
The packs and pouches should inflate and deflate by how much volume of shit is in them. If i grab an alice ruck just to keep a few extra things, but it’s half empty, it should be loose and baggy adding to my camouflage. Instead, an empty ruck looks like a big green boulder.
saying this as a soldier, the standard gear and kit one will us in an army doctrine is just an idea on paper, in reality, we grab what we need, some cases carrying 20 magazines in a ruck is the choice we make. doctrine realism is not physical realism
A soldier of a drone team in the Ukraine war said he would carry 20 magazines for his AK-47 just for going to recover crashed drones. So imagine how many magazines the soldiers who are storming enemy positions migth carry. Take into consideration also that they carry even more weigth in body armor. So it's probably not that unrealistic.
probably the drone operator lied a little)) I absolutely don’t know a single drone operator who uses 47. Or they go with 74, 74U, and even with MP5, none of them take well 4-6 more magazines (because they are lazy asses and It’s better to get yourself more energy drinks in cans))) even when they go into the gray zone. Because they are located quite a couple of kilometers from the front line. And you are more likely to be killed by an FPV or a 250-500kg air bomb) Personally, when I took the drone from the gray zone, I didn’t take anything at all, you’ll leave faster)) being a drone operator after being in infantry. I haven’t fired a single cartridge in a couple of months on the Donbass front
@@cteklobata1405 I dunno, maybe the 47 was all they had around. And this is crashed drone recovery we are talking about, not simply sitting around piloting the drones. He said soldier of a drone team, not a drone operator. Respect for your service though.
@@reonthornton685 Well, maybe some infantry brigade is running with 47, I was in an airborne assault brigade and didn’t even hear that they were running with 47. I understand, but there is no such thing as “in a group of drone operators” there is an operator and his replacement, or you fly in turns with a partner and divide all the work between two, or one puts batteries (grenades if you are in attack drones, I was in reconnaissance ) adjusts the antenna, speaks on the radio, etc. there is no such thing as someone extra sitting for just crashed drone. I'm lost drone, I'm going for him, it's simple
@@cteklobata1405 Considering some Ukrainian Units are using old Pre-WW1 Maxim Guns, an AK-47 or AKM isn't exactly the oldest piece of gear in use. I imagine that the soldier we are talking about is part of a less well equipped group and dangerously close to the front unlike those other teams you talked about to be at risk of being shot at rather than being hit by ordinance.
@@reonthornton685 Well, I personally was in one of the shitty units in terms of equipment, and I saw guys with M16 and other NATO weapons, in full gear. Those who got to the drop point in hummers and LAVs, when I drove in a Toyota pickup truck or a Mercedes splinter with welded armor sheets, and then walked with all the equipment up to 10 km) Any drone operator is no more than 1 km from zero. maybe he was in an assault group and attacked trenches, etc., perhaps
30 mags isn’t too much if u know how to survive Everon. My load out without a backpack I Carry 14 mags and I run out sometimes and realize I could have used a backpack full. But when new players with 300cost kits just throw body’s at montignac and entre deux they don’t need much amo they die quick
It seems like players can climb hills too fast. There is no reason to go around a hill players should just sprint straight up and it seems they move faster up the hill than they would on flat ground. I haven’t tested details of this
If there is anything that these games always suffer from it's gear customization. Like i carry 12 mags on my belt and no mags on my vest just cuz i prefer it that way but there is no game that will let you put how many pouches where ever you want cuz it would be way too complicated.
Your critics and yourself have both missed the point here. Conflict game mode is the casual way to play the game it's accessible to everyone, and offers a lot of player freedom. If you like that feature of the game fine, Arma is a sandbox style game and there isn't a strictly right or wrong way to play. But to pretend that Conflict is anything other than one of the more casual ways of experiencing the game is dishonest. If someone prefers to play in organized scenario play which has more structure to it, they should stay in their lane, not coming to criticize others, However you cannot have your cake and eat it too, shove 30 ak magazines in your backpack out of an infinite magic crate, and then pretend you are larping. You are simply playing in an open world sand box multiplayer tactical shooter it's no longer a milsim experience at that point, it's too diluted .
a friend of mine carried a PKM and at least 5 boxes of 100-150 rounds of ammunition for it, plus loose rounds in the same quantity. Plus water and food for 3 days. This is a standard approach to a position. In general, up to 80 kg excluding body armor and helmet. And he’s not a big guy, I was with a regular AK74, carrying at least 4-8 magazines and loose cartridges, a couple of grenades, food, etc. also up to 50-60 kg. In the realities of the war, we did not have machine gunner assistants or RPG assistants.
What if he died? Would you leave the bag there and say "oh no sorry not my role its unrealistic!" ? Remove the "memesim" filter, and think logically. If you can physically do it, you should be able to do it, with the RELEVANT CONSEQUENCES it comes with. (for example, locomotion wont be as easy etc)
Me watching this video after a match where I bring 11 100rounds box mags for the PKM and weighing 80 Kg. I like being able to do it. Is it practical? Na. But it’s fun to mag dump. I mean suppress the enemy.
It's unrealistic because you can't physically carry 30 fucking magazines on your person lmao. This is the only video of yours I've watched that I vehemently disagree with. I think you are subjecting your own personal biases on what's realistic and what's not. Carrying 1350 rounds IN MAGAZINES, 45 round ones no less is literally impossible. You'd be utterly overloaded and the backpack would need to be massive. Not only are you still carrying other equipment but now you have probably 50lbs of ammo on as well. Not to mention I highly doubt anyone rips through 1350 rounds in any lifespan. It's ridiculous. Most games like squad have probably looked up average US infantry loadouts or whatever team they are using to get an idea for their loadouts. Pretending they do it to punish a player with preemptive biases is just unfounded completely. What also gets me is how much you seem to value the incredible realism in the game yet on this subject you fully reject it. It's just against the entire ethos of this channel.
Carrying that much isn't unrealistic, the speed of movement is unrealistic. Reforger is still missing inertia of the character. Changing direction is too abrupt. If you carry 30kg of gear, you are super slow compared to say a normal 15-20kg. Especially going prone or crouch and getting back up. Anybody who went hiking with 30kg knows. You feel like a freight train. Also, the backpack should be treated like a storage you have to manually access. Reloading your gun with mags from backpack is a bit goofy. If they get movement and access penalty right, I don't see a problem. A premium would be a system like fuel for cars, where your character will slowly deplete his energy levels depending on activity. It will give that realistic touch of being reasonable with your energy - "natural laziness" if you will. Nobody would vault over a 1,8m fence in full gear if there is a door etc.
Very good ideas, especially the one with having to access the backpack manually.
Absolutely agreed. Organic realism, not gamey realism.
@@caracal3892 tarkov does it; I was low-key shocked when I came back to ArmA 😮
I think it was like that in ArmA 2 that you could only reload from the west.
Good stuff. I like the idea about reloads from the backpack being effectively not possible. That way you would need to put everything for immediate use on your vest or pants
Having 30 RPK mags is basically equivalent to the modern standard loadout of a M249 gunner, who typically carries 1000-1600 rounds split up between 200 rnd boxes, 100 rnd nutsacks, or just loose belts.
Also someone else would carry ammo too.
The issue I take with this isn’t about the realism, it’s about wasting supplies.
IRL you are more likely to actually use that much ammo because you do a lot of suppressive fire, because dying matters. In games people take huge risk and often die with most of their ammo.
Tats why I take like 8-10 mags and if I survive a fight I’m normally near an arsenal or dead bodies to loot.
The biggest supply wasters are the combo PKM & SVD with 10 belts and 20 SVD mags.
>Having 30 RPK mags is basically equivalent to the modern standard loadout of a M249 gunner
In terms of round count, yes. In terms of weight and how you load your spare belts into your kit/bag, hell no.
@@omarrp14 same thing for new players spending 400 supplies on a kit, unless you can use it all, don’t bring it all.
@@videogames9415 30 45rd RPK mags weight in at about 47.40lbs so its not really too heavy. How you would fit that into the confines of your back pack and chest rig im not so sure but who cares US teams can shove 7 rocket launchers into their backpacks if they want. Its a video game it cant be perfect but its pretty close while still being fun to play.
@@Stewbe web gear + soviet harnesses/lifchiks + bags need to be reworked, I think most people can agree on that. The fact that the backpacks/vests are simply "storage %" with few exceptions, it should be pouch availability and physical space somethign takes up on the respective bag/rig.
the RPK was the USSR's oddball doctrine tossup, much like the USMC running into SOP problems with the m27. An m27 is not an m249 and several units showed displeasure at that fact, same with the RPK. The RPK was not the RPD, and the soviets had to retrain on it hard. On paper, the RPK is the soft suppressor for the PKM in the squad. RPK gunner was to have 1 45rnd mag loaded, when contact was made he would shoot off that 45 rounder to let the PKM team get ready. With the PKM now up, he would reach into his machine gunner rig and grab the 1 75 rounder he had to compliment the PKMs fire. After that, he would rely on whatever 45 rounders he could stash or the squads/fireteams abundance of 30 round mags.
Doctrinally in arma, someone with an RPK should only be carrying between 1 to 4 RPK mags and a 75 rounder. But this isn't IRL and we dont have the squad cohesion with randos like any of the devs would want. So to make up for the fact we dont have the 75 round mags, and no one is coming to give you ammo you might as well carry what you think will get you to the next fight. I carry about 7 mags for the RPK, it gets me through one fight and if i get to a second fight i might be boned depending on how it goes.
My main gripe tho is the 2 main weapon slot design choice instead of locked launcher spot and that leads to bollywood level rambo loadouts that drains front line points faster than a dedicated 9 man construction team spamming sandbags and floodlights
No 75 round drums for the RPK74
@@Guerilla_G Good catch, was about to say the same thing.. This isn't the RPK it's the RPK-74.
What i wrote before and ill write here again.
People dont understand or cant pinpoint as an argument, that you CAN bring 30 mags, its not impossible at all. Chuck em in a backpack and boom, organic ammo supply.
BUT YOU SHOULDNT ACCESS THEM EASILY FROM YOUR BACKPACK. If you need em, you have to drop the backpack and pick em up.
This is the biggest reason realism games fail, because they dont showcase those small but incredibly important details.
Its not "milsim" to have 6 mags only, its milsim to have the freedom to do whatever you want, but with the NATURAL CONSEQUENCES AND LAWS governing what you can and cannot do, aka REAL LIFE SIMULATION. (A plate carrier can hold say 8 mags total, you wouldnt fit 30 in there without significant consequences to your locomotion etc.)
Great video as always. Arma will wither if it becomes like squad. Not everything needs to be a copy of another. Make arma ARMA.
I like your idea, but to make it more user-friendly (and not need to drop the backpack, look at it and access it), you could have a system where moving something from or to the backpack incurs a time-penalty.
It could be implemented by a per-item timer, or by an animation sequence where upon accessing or closing the backpack, your character kneels and places the backpack in front of you so it makes you vulnerable while organizing the contents.
Players on your team, could access your backpack while it's on your back without the same time penalty, encouraging teamwork.
@@RAF33Strike
I understand your point, but honestly i disagree:
Id rather have an animation, put it down, and pick stuff up.
That feels a lot more personal, cool, immersive, and has gameplay implications due to enemies seeing what you are doing, making this a more deliberate action than a "time penalty" if that makes sense.
Imo arma is awesome because of those small details; being in the game instead of playing a game.
Well said 👏
@@RAF33Strikehave you ever tried taking things in and out of a backpack on your back? If you need to resupply your chest rig or pockets you would most definitely take it off to as quickly as possible fill up rather than tumbling blindly on your back
arma character control and inertia is significantly more game-ified than squad. Both games have very arcady game-loops with excessive respawn-ability. Arma realism only shines in private, organized events. The same goes for squad realism, though there are no realism communities in squad and the platform is far too limited compared to arma's modularity
I agree that non-fixed lodaouts are a good thing in Reforger - it's sandbox game after all. However, as someone who often runs supplies I would argue, that you more often die, before you even use half of that amount of ammo.
Well, where your “mechanical realism” breaks down is because in “real life” you’d need to also bring with you water, food, shelter, sleeping gear, etc etc
Can a human carry 30 magazines? Absolutely? Can they carry 30 mags while also carrying everything they need to survive? No.
I don’t expect Arma to add food, water, and sleep requirements to Conflict - but I’d definitely support a limit below 30 mags to emulate this “real world” limitation.
As a support weapon operator, ideally the systems should be designed to force you to have a buddy be an ammo carrier.
Overall your “kinetic” vs “organizational” realism argument is sorta just flawed - cause if you try and live by the “if it can physically happen in real life then I should be able to do it” it cuts both ways.
Leaning on that format of “realism” just opens the door to “but respawns aren’t realistic”, “you can’t recover from a bullet wound in 2 mins, it should be 6 months of PT”, etc.
Down that road there is only madness.
I agree with lots of your points, but this is definitely one area I massively disagree. This just reads like “I like my goofy overburdened load out and don’t like people telling me it’s bad”
It's why I feel realism for the sake of realism arguments always fall flat. You want fights to be realistic, you HAVE to implement either all the mechanics that go into the fights, including context like what people carry in their rucks for survival that offset their ability to only pack for a fight, or you have to impose restrictions to simulate what limitations those sort of mechanics would impose. At the end of the day, developers have to pick and choose because the route of making all the supporting mechanics means you have to develop hundreds, if not thousands of interwoven and complicated systems to truly replicate what a real engagement and the leadup to that engagement would be like, not to mention the performance issues that a truly realistic simulation would impose. Instead, it would be much easier to go down the route of creating restrictions that emulate things like what you'd carry alongside your combat load. Less performance overhead, doesn't require making mechanics that players don't really care to engage with, and allows the developers to work on mechanics that create real depth and make bigger strides towards replicating the experience they want to give players.
I carried 800 rounds for my 249, 1 porkchop in, 2 on my IOTV, and 1 in my assault pack; for the 240 I'd personally carry something like 150-400 rounds, 50 in a starter belt and the rest coiled in a pouch and my AG had 600-800 rounds dependent on space in their pack; context is my time as a combat engineer
I would guess your point here is, this is how much I carried, therefore yes you can carry a lot. However, he is carrying 1400 rounds in this video so even if we take the high end of what you're saying with 800 rounds, he is carrying 600 more rounds, nearing double the amount you are talking about with no bulk to him at all. I would also like to know if this was going on long assault-like missions or not because from the conflict we see today it is extremely rare for the storming group to have 800 rounds on one person, however, the entrenched fighters often have this much for an MG. Let me know.
@Kaade_Z That amount was for your generic, scene perfect live fire exercise, or in other words what you carry onto the objective- I'd need at least that much more ammo in my large ruck or in my vehicle to resupply from, it's easy to go black on ammo as support by fire without a proper wiesel guiding you; I'm also of the opinion that game loadouts should be incredibly liberal on ammo amounts to promote suppression
And for a saw gunner one Sgt i met that was in Iraq 04-05 carried over 1800 rounds of 5.56 not counting what other people carried for him
@@Kaade_Zfor a suppression weapon like a 249 600-800 rounds will go by very quick, i met saww gunners that carried at least 1200+ rounds on themselves maybe more and when it's a heavier round like the 240 it's always mission dependent and what your job is that guy was a combat engineer different missions than what infantry would do
One thing pvp games will never simulate is losing your balance and falling.
Yes you can physically carry 30 rpk mags, but if you back up too suddenly your backpack might put you on your ass.
Helldivers 2 and Ghost Recon Breakpoint come to mind for ragdolling due to explosions or traversing steep terrain. But in pvp it would be very annoying.
Funny as hell tho when you crash a car and your whole team is sent flying becuase there are no seatbelts
Hey, the game only considers weight but not the volume in liters of items.
I'm not sure if such a backpack could carry this much magazine.
Typically, realism in mind, one would have to carry extra barrels, for rapid fire one would have to replace the barrel every 2 minutes and sustained fire typically calls for barrel swap every 10 minutes.
What I also don't like about the game is that it doesn't address encumbrance into any gameplay apart from faster stamina drain. While the game should have walking and running redesigns about these concepts.
In every ARMA and other tactical shooters you can walk and run to sides and backwards without any remorse to terrain like rocky, uphill downhill, heavy vegetation, bushes, water, sandy etc. You can't lose your footing, fall, slip, entangle etc. One can run miles uphill in rocky terrain, backwards with 40kg of extra weight like it's nothing, while in reality its twisted ankle and butt on the ground. Also, dropping on the ground and getting back up is easy. Weight does not shift center mass and is not tipping thr balance as it should.
I'd add mechanics similar to game Death Stranding to address that.
Since a good portion of the game is actual walking anyways and it was always like that in ARMA I'd consider building on those mechanics mini games like whole death stranding is about. This makes route planning and walking more deliberate, logistic and organic gameplay.
If you take a backpack like this and stuff it with mags I'm sure it could hold 22 RPK mags.
Realistically of course you would have other stuff in a backpack as a soldier, like basic necessities, rations, water, some underwear, ...
Extra barrels for sure is an idea, which mods will have at some point. I know they did it in A3. With the 40 round mags of the RPK you usually don't sustain 10 minutes of full auto fire though I would argue.
One mag is 280x65x25 mm in size. I could easily fit 20 mags in my relatively small backpack in just one compartment. They would require only 280x350x100 mm of space. So, volume is not a limiting factor at all.
Exactly. Exactly that. Developers are afraid of simulation, because they are scared of backlash from the dummies that want cheap thrills in a milsim game.....
My biggest argument is that games should NATURALLY simulate the details of real life; That doesnt mean you have to "show the horrors of war oh my god ptsd bla bla", but the things that matter that influence your decisions.
And honestly, even with something simple like walking, having a proper simulated locomotion would make everything so much more fun to go through. (altho that doesnt mean arma should be a walking simulator, because its not.)
@@tiberius8390 Nobody is changing out their RPK barrel in the field.
💯
anyone saying carrying too much is unrealistic has never been on a Ruck before
Yeah I agree.
I was in the army and carrying heavy gear was the regular.
My gear would weight up to 40-45kg.
Nobody in any situation ever carrys 30 mags.. don't understand why you are trying to bring real life into it. Nobody cares if you agree to die because some old man told you to 😂
Yeah dude. Its different to go on a ruck march and actually fighting a battle with a full ruck shack on you.
You carry 30+ kg
But you don't combat in that much usually.
Anyone who has walked a few hours with 30+kg and gotten into a training firefight knows how much different that is from regular tactical training with 10-15kg of gear
@@TennessseTimmy
Yes this is true.
Once in contact you would normally drop packs and retain your webbing, which would hold around 15kg.
This would have water, small amounts of food and then your ammo. Also nav gear, cleaning kits etc.
For the others, I’m not saying carrying 30 mags is realistic but technically it could be done in the pack. But you would have to remove sleeping gear, extra clothes etc.
Magazine's take up WAY more volume and weight than belted ammo. the issue is stuffing over 30 RPK mags in a pack that couldn't realistically CONTAIN that amount of physical volume. Its a classic game abstraction problem of deciding on how item storage should be handled; either based on weight, equipment slots, or volume. Reforger tries to do all three, but fails to communicate it very well, and its a problem I feel no game has found a perfect solution for.
I would say a good change would be for the player to not be able to reload or reload 50-70% slower from backpacks. Reloading from a backpack you have on your back shouldnt be as fast as the mag being on your rig. And in general using items from your backpack should be way slower than having them in "pockets" or your rig. From reloading to opening the map to finding the bandage.
A lot of players are just envious that they never thought to take 30 rpk mags with them before
I love how people are like you need to have to take the backpack off to get the magazines out. Okay, so how far do we want to go with this logic? If you are shot in the chest are you going to need to take your vest/armor off to effectively bandage the wound? How about taking your helmet off to bandage a wound? Single player Tarkovs realism mod does this and I had to turn that off because the system isn’t streamlined enough to quickly perform medical on yourself. I know this is about ammo and such and I kind of agree that you shouldn’t have access to all 30 mags in your backpack without changing them out to your vest. Also it is completely realistic to have that much ammo on you but the weight will affect you and people think they are faster than they actually IRL moving around. Play VR shooters and react to someone shooting behind you and you’ll quickly realize you are nowhere near as fast as you are in other games where your medium of control is a controller or mouse and keyboard.
Rant done. Love the content keep it up!
I think that the hate is coming from ppl's trauma from witnessing eternally newb players who spend 30 mins at armory, pack 50kg of random crap, hog supplies and then die in 1 minute, respawn and repeat. It cool to play the game the way you want, but teams lose for a reason.
Not claiming that's you.
I think players learn over time to conserve supplies because they move faster and after some time after that they want to conserve supplies to not disappoint their team. it appears to be normal for new players wanting to experiment with gear at the armory.
Agreed. And thats a big issue where nonsensical misplaced bias is seeping into opinions, twisting them into more nonsense. Its a shame, cuz it can fuck up a game.
@@caracal3892I just wish people would use default Loadout more especially at the start of the match, the devs themselves suggest this also
But I'm a supply runner so all I think about is supply costs
@@caracal3892 maybe most, but I've seen quite a few players who seem to be stuck in this for weeks/months, reacting to friendly suggestions with anger and "shut up and let me play the way I want".
Its not unrealistic(Especially if you have a backpack).
10 mags irl is the minimum in my opinion.
Depends on what army/war. In Ukraine people prefer to carry more ammunition because sometimes you won't get ammo when you directly need it that's why everyone has a ammo bearer. Most armies have around 7 mags in their standard rifleman load out.
Arma >> Squad, if you want to make squad with arma, mod it that way. If you want to make Arma out of Squad, good luck...
Squad is like reading a book, arma is writing your own
Squad is like watching a comic 😅
I agree squad is not the way. But it definitelly needs a realism touch to it, like real inertia of character and no automatic access to items inside a backpack(tarkov like)
I mean conflict game mode is moving in the Squad direction. This is the first arma game where I can play a default game mode and it's fun, and I think part of that is because it has taken some inspiration from Squad. I agree they are different but I'm not going to diss squad too much it has a lot of good features
@@__soap__ conflict is squad mode done the right way. No limitations and boring stuff
@@__soap__ no, it's not moving to squad unless you mean by "moving in squad direction" that there are 2 teams fighting for multiple points on the map (which squad didn't invent). I haven't played squad for a while, but as far as I can remember squad gameplay is much more linear and restricted, while conflict game mode is asymmetric and open, there is no faction point system, no roles, no predefined load outs. It's much more open in many ways than anything squad delivers and therefore offers a different gameplay.
Riflemen in assault units in ukraine carry well above of 20 mags, been told that by a legion unit commander
Mags yeah, boxes nah man😂
@@jonnyjoanknecht5164 in Iraq saw gunners would have at least 1200+ rounds on them, that ammo goes by fast it's a suppression weapon
So, about 22.3 lbs of ammo (10.12 kg) has been determined to be the maximum amount of ammo that the average soldier could comfortably carry. This was determined through military studies during the Cold War on the topic. That comes out to 18 magazines of 30-round AK74 magazines, so it would be a lesser number for 45-round RPK74 magazines. (That's 540 rounds of 5.45 with the AK74 mags) Now again, this is the maximum amount that can be COMFORTABLY carried, this doesn't mean you couldn't (and wouldn't) carry more. It just means any more would be very uncomfortable and weigh you down a great deal. The only game I can think of that actually attempts to somewhat realistically simulate what weight and encumbrance on a human body actually looks like is Death Stranding, and they had to design their game engine around doing just that. So I'm not expecting a realistic simulation of weight/encumbrance from Reforger.
So, it's not unrealistic that you are carrying 30 RPK magazines. What is unrealistic is you carrying 30 RPK magazines and your character moving at the speed that he is, AND doing so on a sloped roof with a steep angle. But that's more a problem of games in general not being able to accurately simulate weight/encumbrance.
It all depends on the situation, and most warfighters whose primary weapon is an assault rifle will carry more than seven, if not on their immediate person at least in a pack or in a nearby vehicle, but the basic combat load is one in the rifle and six more at the ready.
Basic Combat Load for SOF operators
Special Operations Forces operators have their own needs, depending on the type of mission, they form their own basic combat load. It does not differ much from the regular army, except in maybe some specialized tools and equipment they use.
Even though they can hold up to 14 Mags, most operators use the sides to carry a sidearm holster, grenades, fast-rope gloves, IFAK (Individual First Aid Kit), etc. It’s not all bullets, we have other needs, too. I've heard stories from my uncle when he was deployed back in the early 90's to Bosnia apart of a un peace keeping thing he would carry a rucksack full of ammo while on patrol. Also told me some wild stories of blue on blue as well where he came under fire from friendly tanks and was telling me it was just pure chaos working with the un forces.
i think ppl say its unrealistic bc irl a guy would have sustainment gear etc instead of full on mags but i get your point tho and agree its just ppl might be looking at it from a few different ways
having belts for the us manchine gunner would be so cool
You can carry 30 magazines, but no one will give them to you)) carry a couple of them, and a box of cartridges with you
I think it's a missed opportunity that empty mags are thrown away and that you cannot take a box of ammo with you and (re)pack mags on vanilla gameplay.
@@tiberius8390
completely agree
@@tiberius8390or find ammo dumps where you can refill your mags.. they definitely missed a trick there from DayZ
This is exactly the point. There are a ton of people saying “oh tons of people carry 30 mags.” They don’t. They just don’t. Like 10-12 mags sure but anything above that is carried in loose ammo. If you’re a machine gunner you have a buddy carrying ammo for you.
I think that spawning in bases can be disabled by altering the base Everon Conflict mission. I've done some adjustments in the past (like moving the bases around so we actually fight inside the towns). I ditched that in the past as I'm not able to afford a proper dedicated server to get a 128 player Refrogger server up and I guess no other server would run my preferred Conflict scenario anyway.
My views pretty much align with you, caracal. I want:
1. Moving the bases to actually fight in towns
2. Giving medics a purpose (e.g. you don't die so quickly, instead you enter unconsciousness more often, so players have to get you back up)
3. Disabling radio spawns
4. Disabling cap point spawns
5. Reduce supply generation on cap points (giving supply runners more use)
When can we expect some gameplay from you bro ? Absolutely love the videos and your opinions but I’d love to see you play a conflict match and how you play, I think you’d be a great team player
Also note that using the specialized harnesses for e.g. Autorifleman or Machinegunner are kind of specialized to hold ammo for that type of weapon.
In gameplay terms as I pointed out in the other video yesterday you can carry 2200 rounds (10 + 1 ammo boxes) with the SAW and an Alice backpack no problem with a weight of just above 60 kg, which will not even slow you down that much.
For the M60 it is theoretically 12+1 ammo boxes, 100 rounds each (= 1300 rounds) with the Alice backpack. Which overdoes it a bit at a weight of 74 kg. But 600 rounds of 7.62 is a perfectly playable loadout.
As I said you ideally want machinegunners to behave like machinegunners and not like sharpshooters with a belt-fed weapon. You want them to suppress and full auto in the general direction of the enemy, which sadly does not work in Reforger, as bulles impacting next to you have no impact on sight, hearing or aim of the one being shot at.
Real Auto rifleman with rpk would carry 6 mags and 120+ extra ammo.
Depending on mission, more
You really new to this whole Arma thing arent you ?
are you saying this to yourself?
It should all comes down to the mission/map makers. The game should have little or no limits but the map maker adds the context/scenario imo.
In my opinion, the best system we could use to mitigate the more ridiculous kits you can use is to switch to a more modular type of build (aka the army barbie, somewhat like tarkov but where you can attach things like dump pouches or admin pouches to alice rigs and similar rigs) where you can only use the more accessible ammunition and supplies in those and cannot straight out of the backpack, which is what Tarkov does. If you look up what MACVSOG LRRP teams were carrying into the jungle in Vietnam, a ridiculous amount of magazines and ammunition was not uncommon to see, but it was definitely not accessible to them easily in a combat environment.
It’s been a long time since I last played reforger so I don’t know as much about its mechanics as well as 3, but I think 3 does a pretty good job because it’s definitely doable if you have the space, but you get greatly reduced stamina and if you are too heavy you can only slow walk, stamina is even more important given that from what i remember at least, 3 has more realistic weapon sway and requires stabilization sometimes. It’s why they recommend having an “assistant gunner/ammo bearer”. It might also be more believable in 3’s setting given that nato has really lightweight guns and case less ammo.
Btw caracals are really cool
I have a lot of respect for you making this video but I think you’re not understanding that military doctrine for Soviet SAW gunners is way different than US SAW gunners.
The standard load is 8 RPK-74 mags with six stripper clips (15 rounds each). Minus the stripper clips this is actually represented in game if you spawn in a RPK-74 gunner they will be carrying 8 mags because Bohemia did their research. Also the harness for the RPK gunner will only hold 8 mags.
Now if we are being generous for a max load someone would probably carry double that so 16 mags and 12 stripper clips (essentially 4 more mags) to give you a total of 20. So the average Soviet RPK-74 gunner at the very most would carry 20 mags essentially. On average they’d carry essentially 10.
This not the same as the US SAW gunner who carries an average of 600 rounds or 2 boxes and spare belts. Plus you compare the RPK-74 which is a SAW to an M60 which is a machine gun like the PKM.
I understand you were using these pictures as a point to show that people will carry more ammo than what is general issue but by not understanding that the two sides are not equal in doctrine I believe you have misrepresented this situation.
This is one of the reason i want ammo boxes and ammo repacking. Carrying 30 mags for yourself is unrealistic however holding onto 7 mags along side a few more in bullets would be more realistic.
In ukraine for example ive heard that when storming a trench a single person can hold onto about 10 magazines along side ammo boxes sonetimes less depending on the unit. Obviously you cant carry 10 mags in a vest so they use backpacks so just like @UEemperor said, you shouldnt be able to access the magazines in the backpack as fast as you do now.
In my opinion you shouldnt be allowed to reload if your mags are in your backpack until you put them in your vest. Ammo boxes would also weight less and be more disposable than magazines, adding ammo repacking would make people pick ammo boxes over mags as they weight less, also NO ONE in conflict goes through 30 mags. I like playing reforger realisticly with a small fireteam but that doesnt mean im invinsible from ambushes, mortars or bullets. 7 mags is ideal for a reforger life and if i make it through several objectives i either have a ammo bearer or resupply at a friendly base. Your loadout should cost no more than 150 supplies unless, youre a grenadier fighting during the night where you need 10 HEDP's and 10-20 flares.
Look at what you need the more experience you have the better you know what you need, this isnt real life where you need to manage socks and shit to keep you mentally healthy in the field but i always laugh when i kill someone trying to push a base with a grenade launcher, a PKM, 20 nades and 20 of each medical supply.
You can carry 10 mags on your vest, 3 double mag pouches up front, then a couple more on both sides. But it's going to hamper your quick movements a lot when you try to shift directions.
@@ripHalo0002 depends on what kit you're doing ofcourse you can customize it but I rarely see people with 10 mags on themselves
@@mr-glizzer3332 true. Gotta love molle
When is this releasing 😊
My father used to carry 20 styr mags, plus 40mm, and extra rounds for gpmg, and that went for everyone else in the platoon
Armies chooses a loadout because that’s what’s most effective with their constraints.
If physical and organisational realism don’t roughly align, it means a mechanic or a constraint is missing or is not well parametrised.
Exactly. IRL, you are limited in space by sustainment and miscellaneous equipment you have to carry with you. In game, where eating, drinking, sleeping, hygeine, and backup gear aren't necessary, the space and weight that all would normally contribute isn't there, so you can theoretically just carry dozens of mags and upwards of thousands of rounds. Unless you made mechanics where you would need those sort of supplies to stay sufficient (not ideal for the intended experience and would cause unnecessary development) or implemented restrictions to emulate the same contraints found IRL (the more ideal solution, less dev work with less room for bugs and possible performance problems) you will not actually reflect reality and people will not play in a way that approaches the intended experience.
Fun fact if you search up death machine Vietnam you’ll find US Mac v-sog soldiers (special forces) holding m60 while wearing an ammo backpacks that hold up to 500 rounds which are fed straight into the gun. That weapon would be peak machine gunner. Alright so the Americans have that badass weapon so what would the Russians get as compromise? Well they’d the LPO-50 flamethrower
Any solider that cant carry 30 mags shouldnt be a soldier
I think I disagree with the premise of not having classes. I think classes probably would benefit arma. But maybe if they had classes with the option to pick up other weapons as usual from the supply point as it works now
I hope Ivan B. remains in his post for many decades to prevent the new generations of woke devs from taking over BI.
It is realistic to have an RPK gunner with 12 to 15 45round mags, specially if they're not required to maneuver through rough terrain. It's less than 1000 rounds. Very doable.
I think people were just riffing on you dog
Pre made classes would be nice. But making a kit should always be an option
People talking about how unrealistic it is to carry 30 mags on an unrealistic shooter 🤣🤣
Wow first while on reforger
@@jthom8226 dead internet theory
@ wdym?
It's completely realistic for a real person to get as much ammo as possible to stop enemies.
But in online shooter you just know that you won't use even 10 30-round mags.
30 5.45 magazines is more realistic than 5 7.62 PK ammo boxes. You weren’t running around from what I saw either so you weren’t going CoD commando with all that weight.
The packs and pouches should inflate and deflate by how much volume of shit is in them. If i grab an alice ruck just to keep a few extra things, but it’s half empty, it should be loose and baggy adding to my camouflage.
Instead, an empty ruck looks like a big green boulder.
saying this as a soldier, the standard gear and kit one will us in an army doctrine is just an idea on paper, in reality, we grab what we need, some cases carrying 20 magazines in a ruck is the choice we make. doctrine realism is not physical realism
Carrying 22 kilos is not unrealistic, carrying 20 kilos of mags on top 50 kilos of gear you alreasy carry is unrealistic
A soldier of a drone team in the Ukraine war said he would carry 20 magazines for his AK-47 just for going to recover crashed drones. So imagine how many magazines the soldiers who are storming enemy positions migth carry. Take into consideration also that they carry even more weigth in body armor.
So it's probably not that unrealistic.
probably the drone operator lied a little)) I absolutely don’t know a single drone operator who uses 47. Or they go with 74, 74U, and even with MP5, none of them take well 4-6 more magazines (because they are lazy asses and It’s better to get yourself more energy drinks in cans))) even when they go into the gray zone. Because they are located quite a couple of kilometers from the front line. And you are more likely to be killed by an FPV or a 250-500kg air bomb) Personally, when I took the drone from the gray zone, I didn’t take anything at all, you’ll leave faster))
being a drone operator after being in infantry. I haven’t fired a single cartridge in a couple of months on the Donbass front
@@cteklobata1405 I dunno, maybe the 47 was all they had around.
And this is crashed drone recovery we are talking about, not simply sitting around piloting the drones. He said soldier of a drone team, not a drone operator.
Respect for your service though.
@@reonthornton685 Well, maybe some infantry brigade is running with 47, I was in an airborne assault brigade and didn’t even hear that they were running with 47.
I understand, but there is no such thing as “in a group of drone operators” there is an operator and his replacement, or you fly in turns with a partner and divide all the work between two, or one puts batteries (grenades if you are in attack drones, I was in reconnaissance ) adjusts the antenna, speaks on the radio, etc. there is no such thing as someone extra sitting for just crashed drone.
I'm lost drone, I'm going for him, it's simple
@@cteklobata1405 Considering some Ukrainian Units are using old Pre-WW1 Maxim Guns, an AK-47 or AKM isn't exactly the oldest piece of gear in use.
I imagine that the soldier we are talking about is part of a less well equipped group and dangerously close to the front unlike those other teams you talked about to be at risk of being shot at rather than being hit by ordinance.
@@reonthornton685
Well, I personally was in one of the shitty units in terms of equipment, and I saw guys with M16 and other NATO weapons, in full gear. Those who got to the drop point in hummers and LAVs, when I drove in a Toyota pickup truck or a Mercedes splinter with welded armor sheets, and then walked with all the equipment up to 10 km) Any drone operator is no more than 1 km from zero. maybe he was in an assault group and attacked trenches, etc., perhaps
30 mags isn’t too much if u know how to survive Everon. My load out without a backpack I Carry 14 mags and I run out sometimes and realize I could have used a backpack full. But when new players with 300cost kits just throw body’s at montignac and entre deux they don’t need much amo they die quick
It seems like players can climb hills too fast. There is no reason to go around a hill players should just sprint straight up and it seems they move faster up the hill than they would on flat ground. I haven’t tested details of this
If there is anything that these games always suffer from it's gear customization. Like i carry 12 mags on my belt and no mags on my vest just cuz i prefer it that way but there is no game that will let you put how many pouches where ever you want cuz it would be way too complicated.
@blackjack2248 have you seen Ground Branch? 100% customizable kit.
Yes 30 boxes is clearly unrealistic, besides I can only get 3 boxes in the biggest rucksack, so I dunno wtf you're on about
It’s not boxes it’s 45 round mags
Your critics and yourself have both missed the point here. Conflict game mode is the casual way to play the game it's accessible to everyone, and offers a lot of player freedom. If you like that feature of the game fine, Arma is a sandbox style game and there isn't a strictly right or wrong way to play. But to pretend that Conflict is anything other than one of the more casual ways of experiencing the game is dishonest. If someone prefers to play in organized scenario play which has more structure to it, they should stay in their lane, not coming to criticize others, However you cannot have your cake and eat it too, shove 30 ak magazines in your backpack out of an infinite magic crate, and then pretend you are larping. You are simply playing in an open world sand box multiplayer tactical shooter it's no longer a milsim experience at that point, it's too diluted .
30 Mags is unrealistic, thats why there is an mg assistant who has more ammo for the gunner and can replace him when the gunner is kia
a friend of mine carried a PKM and at least 5 boxes of 100-150 rounds of ammunition for it, plus loose rounds in the same quantity. Plus water and food for 3 days. This is a standard approach to a position. In general, up to 80 kg excluding body armor and helmet. And he’s not a big guy, I was with a regular AK74, carrying at least 4-8 magazines and loose cartridges, a couple of grenades, food, etc. also up to 50-60 kg. In the realities of the war, we did not have machine gunner assistants or RPG assistants.
What if he died? Would you leave the bag there and say "oh no sorry not my role its unrealistic!" ?
Remove the "memesim" filter, and think logically. If you can physically do it, you should be able to do it, with the RELEVANT CONSEQUENCES it comes with. (for example, locomotion wont be as easy etc)
@@cteklobata1405 Ukraine?
Me watching this video after a match where I bring 11 100rounds box mags for the PKM and weighing 80 Kg. I like being able to do it. Is it practical? Na. But it’s fun to mag dump. I mean suppress the enemy.
It's unrealistic because you can't physically carry 30 fucking magazines on your person lmao. This is the only video of yours I've watched that I vehemently disagree with. I think you are subjecting your own personal biases on what's realistic and what's not. Carrying 1350 rounds IN MAGAZINES, 45 round ones no less is literally impossible. You'd be utterly overloaded and the backpack would need to be massive. Not only are you still carrying other equipment but now you have probably 50lbs of ammo on as well. Not to mention I highly doubt anyone rips through 1350 rounds in any lifespan. It's ridiculous. Most games like squad have probably looked up average US infantry loadouts or whatever team they are using to get an idea for their loadouts. Pretending they do it to punish a player with preemptive biases is just unfounded completely.
What also gets me is how much you seem to value the incredible realism in the game yet on this subject you fully reject it. It's just against the entire ethos of this channel.