Barry Bonds, the Hall of Famer?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 20 ส.ค. 2024
- Should Barry Bonds be in the baseball Hall of Fame? Let's finally give our thoughts on that and summarize Bonds' legacy and post-playing career...
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My grandfather played on the Wizkid Philadelphia Phillies. He was my best friend and I miss him every day. He always said Willie Mays was the greatest ball player of all time, until Bonds came around... Anything Barry Bonds related reminds me of him, and I sincerely appreciate this series. I watched every episode, and enjoyed it immensely.
That's cool. I remember I met a member of the Bash Brothers A's and Birmingham. I love the older uniforms and hearing the stories they have
Pre Roids Bonds was already a top 30 baseball player of all time and may I add he was facing pitchers who were on steroids as well
Steroids help batters more.
But yes Bonds was an inner sanctum HOFer before steroids.
If he was so good, why did he roid up?
@@lovelessissimo bc there was no downside to doing so at the time
@Duke DeMatteo apart from the rule violations, the negative side effects of steroid use are the same then as they are now. Like irritability, unstable moods, divorce, and a HOF snub.
@lovelessissimo physical side effects ..yes.
HOF snub? Absolutely not. Fans and media didn't give a shit about the morality of PED use until after Balco.... when hysteria ensued and the whole baseball world 180'd on the issue going from completely indifferent to zealous anti PED crusaders and Character Clause reinterpretation enthusiasts.
That Barry Bonds and Dale Murphy aren't in the Hall of Fame makes the Hall of Fame completely illegitimate. If Bonds is out because he's a jerk, Murphy should be in because he was a two time MVP and a wonderful person that no one has ever had a bad thing to say about.
Shut up dale Murphy
A great example of the "Character clause" being total BS and arbitrary. Bonds doesn't get in because he's a jerk, yet has no-brainer stats- Dale doesn't because his stats aren't the flashiest, yet was a GREAT ambassador of the game and his peak was amazing.
@@davewills94 you gotta have both
Stats alone make the candidate. Character gets you in. Dale was 1/2
@@Deezy26925 He was the best player in baseball for 2 straight years, and up there for several more. If that isn't worthy of the Hall, nothing is.
I traveled to Candlestick Park in April of 1994, and saw Bonds' Giants take on Ozzie Smith and the Cardinals. I had my trusty camera, and snapped a photo of Bonds at bat. I wrote him a letter, asking him to sign the photo. Not only was he the only player out of around 30 I did this to to send something back to me, he wrote a fairly long letter, and made me feel like he appreciated me being a fan of his. Steroids can only make you hit the ball harder, further, and faster. His plate awareness is better than anyone else, and steroids can do nothing for that. My experience with Bonds is different than others, but I think he deserves to be in the Hall. Thank you for this series. It's been awesome to revisit my teenage years again.
" His plate awareness is better than anyone else, and steroids can do nothing for that" the cognitive affects of steroids are well documented. and yes testosterone does allow you to see the ball better.
Bonds, Sosa, McGwire, and Clemens are in a tough spot. Young people never saw them and think they just cheated. Old writers are sanctimonious and refuse to admit the truth. Truth is cheat or not, baseball wouldn't be what it is today without them. They literally saved baseball. I was a kid in the 90's and 2000's and they plus Griffey are why I still love the game today. They should be in for keeping baseball alive, not to mention their stats. Roids in an era where teams worth of players did roids should not keep them out.
Young people are way more forgiving about all this nonsense ..
I would love to see a series like this for Alex Rodriguez
A Rod is a hof'r. Sucks that you gotta make non players happy if you want a bust. Jeter never put up the stats but he shmoozed enough writers to weasel his way in. HOF is a joke!
@@Deezy26925 Derek Jeter?!? A 5 time champion with 3,000 hits? His fielding was so-so, we all know that. But not a HOF'er is a hot take that burns me a bit. What stats was he short on?
ARod was suspended twice Bonds was never suspended,sorry
This is definitely one of the best sports mini-series that's on TH-cam
In 2002 I took my first born son to one of many Giants games we attended that year and he was only 5 at the time but he loved The City and especially PacBell Park (now Oracle).
We'd get there early and I always bought a couple of MLB baseballs before the game as my son was trying to get his first autograph of any Giants player. We had really good seats this one time, (section 121, about 4 rows up from the Giants dugout). As my son and I watched batting practice my son was in awe of the sheer power of major league hitters and who comes out of the batting cage and heading to the dugout? Jeff Kent. Kent is walking towards my son (I'm sitting in a chair behind my son reading the Giants program as my boy leans over the fence separating the field from the stands with a baseball in one hand and a ballpoint pen in the other)...he quickly asks me, "who's that coming daddy?" I look up from the program and see who it is and I say, "That's Jeff Kent, be respectful." I see my son extend the ball and pen as Kent comes closer to the dugout and my son says in his sweet little voice, "Mr. Kent, may I have your autograph please?" Kent looks up at my son (who is quite adorable if I do say so myself, with his Giants cap that's a little too big for him), and Kent looks back down and walks into the dugout without saying anything. I see my son's shoulders deflate as I sit behind him.
A part of me burns that Kent did not even acknowledge my boy....when out of nowhere, this other Giant comes up from the dugout where I couldn't see and stands up directly in front of my son....my son looks up at this giant of a man and my son's Giants hat nearly falls off from looking directly up towards the sky from the size of this man....but my son doesn't ask me who THIS Giant is....because he already knows....Barry fricken Bonds!
Even I stand up to make sure I'm seeing what I'm seeing and as my son begins to say, "May I have your autograph, Mr. Bonds...." Barry had already taken the ball out of my son's hand and was signing the ball for him! He hands the ball back to my son and fixes my boys Giants cap that was falling off. Bonds smiles and winks at my son, as I can't see my son's face because I'm behind him, but I'm sure his mouth is agape in awe.
Barry goes to walk back in the dugout and my son catches himself and shouts louder than he wanted to, "THANK YOU MR. BONDS!!" My son turns around and with a victorious smile I will remember till the day I die...triumphantly extends his hand for me to see his signed Barry Bonds baseball. I walk over to where my son was standing and I try to peer into the dugout but I couldn't see Bonds from my perspective.
From that moment, my son didn't want any more autographs. We walked to our seats 4 rows up and we sat together and admired the autograph he received from someone he didn't expect to receive it from.
My son still has the ball to this day encased in a UV-protected acrylic cube. He's 24 years old now and it sits on his desk in his room in my house. He's currently in college studying computer science (like his old man) and comes home for the summer and holidays but for my son and me, we'll always be grateful to Barry Bonds for that memory.
Yea, I know he was juicing and that's how he was able to break Aaron's record and all....but the way I see it, A LOT of players were on steroids. So I can't place judgment on a guy when we don't know what the actual percentage of players were on juice at the time. I mean, if Barry is on juice and the pitcher he's facing is also on juice (like Eric Gagne)....doesn't that make it a level playing field?
That's the way I see it anyway....and I know I'm being partial towards Barry for the way he treated my son....but there's a lot to say for a man KNOWN for not signing autographs to sign an autograph for a 5-year-old kid....especially when it's your kid.
In my humble and heavily biased opinion, Barry Bonds is a Hall of Famer. Bar none.
I have a similar story where I was the kid. It stories like yours that show the man wasn’t evil like some make him out to be. He was complicated. As we all are. He just had a microscope on him from age 18 and on. He’s judged way to harshly. An evil man doesn’t give you and your son a story like you have. Thanks for sharing.
Amazing series guys, literally a 100% round up of one of the most famous athletes in sports
A couple points that I've thought about since you guys started this series five weeks ago:
1. Having been to Cooperstown myself, I can tell you that beyond the great hall in the center, it's essentially a museum. Barry Bonds' contributions to baseball, no matter how contentious they may be, do deserve to be enshrined among the history of the game as a reminder of a particular time in history when home run records were being shattered every other season.
2. Jose Bautista will never get into the hall of fame with his stats, but he helped bring on a new generation of players who are not shy to be emotional on the field. Similarly, a large swathe of old timers (including Goose Gossage) hate Jose Bautista to this day and his influence on the next generation of "sportsmanship" and "integrity" in the game. Barry Bonds might be a polarizing player, but he can also be in the conversation for one of the most influential in the history of the game.
3. Consider Curt Schilling: 3200+ innings pitched, 3100+ strikeouts, 200+ wins. And unlike Barry Bonds, playoff success: 3x world series champion, NLCS and World Series MVP's. Curt Schilling is a hall of famer before his tirade's and unconventional behavior. But this controversy only really surfaced AFTER his playing career. Barry Bonds was an ass to reporters, his teammates, his significant other, and was forced to testify under oath in the US Supreme Court....while still being an active player. If Curt Schilling isn't a hall of famer, I find it impossible to include Barry Bonds as well.
Great work on the series too! I was genuinely surprised by how much Barry Bonds lore I did not know already through rabbit holes and other content creators. This series covering the whole story presents both sides of the discussion fairly and reminding us that this debate is far more complicated than anyone makes it out to be.
100% on point 3. They should both be in imo but Schilling not being in is a bigger crime.
Excellent take. Well at least Harold Baines eventually got elected.. am i right? 😂 JUSTICE SERVED. ALL IS RIGHT IN THE UNIVERSE? Sigh......
Greg Maddux said Barry was the easiest guy to pitch to. You throw four pitches out of the strike zone.....you walk him. And this coming from a legend who barely walked anyone each year..
The biggest reason Bonds isn't in the HoF is because everybody loves talking about why he isn't / whether he should be in the HoF! Anyway, great series. Really enjoyed it.
its the hall of fame, not hall of morally righteous. He was the greatest player to ever pick up a bat, hands down.
Barry is Exhibit A of why many companies are shit. The best talent is often not the most likeable.
These righteous mfs think athletes don’t use peds and cheat other ways every day 😂
Awesome Video, Awesome Series!👍 I grew up in Pittsburgh during Bonds' career there. 1992 still makes me sad, and hope one day that will change. Let's Go Bucs!!!
Lifelong Bonds fan here. Watched probably 90% of his career Giants ABs. You couldn’t have better summarized a more complicated human being. Mission accomplished. Thank you for making this.
Yes he is
Bud Selig is in HoF that there says it all let bonds in
Barry Bonds pre 1997: 91.8 bWAR .408 OPB .551 SLG
That said, I myself would feel uncomfortable casting my vote for someone with multiple credible DV accusations. That dosen't seem like the kind of person I would feel okay celebrating.
I'd like to see a similar one of these for Roger Clemens. I feel like even though we hear about Clemens and Bonds as a group, we almost never talk about Clemens.
Ty Cobb is in the hall and he beat up a guy in a wheelchair because he called Cobb a racial epithet
I think Clemens isn't mentioned as much as Bonds is because he doesn't hold any notable records. He doesn't have a lead in any counting stat, even among contemporaries. Maddux has more career wins and innings pitched. Johnson has more career strikeouts. Pedro has a better career ERA+ and FIP. Although he had some really good seasons, he never had a season where you could look at it and say "this is the best pitched season of all time."
He was just top 3 for so unbelievably long, but never had that true dominate peak where he massacred the league like Maddux, Johnson or Pedro did.
@@VACATETHE48 what? He's 3rd overall for war for pitchers, a better winning % than Maddox, 3rd in ks, has a better era+ than Maddox, second most times leading era with 7, and the most Cy young awards with 7.
That's fantastic and all, but it still isn't the case like Bonds where if you look at the stats alone, he's unequivocally the greatest hitter in MLB history and also had the best peak.
I don't think the same argument can be made for Clemens. Top 10? Definitely. But greatest? Eh...
WAR for pitchers is also really suspect. I wouldn't use that for a tool as there's wide disagreements on how to calculate pitching WAR at this time.
This has been such an informative, well paced, and rounded series. Thanks so much for all the effort that I think is obvious you put into it. I hope you decide to do more long form things like this in the future.
Great series guys, Barry Bonds is a no brainer HOF
If David Ortiz is in the Hall of Fame Barry should be in too
💯
Thank you. And Roger Clemens and arod, McGwire, not Sosa.
@@jorgeangulo6282 Sosa’s only connection to PEDs is the exact same report that Ortiz was mentioned in..
The problem that nobody talks about when it comes to any player that is in consideration for the hall of fame is that the MLB has set ZERO objective standards that a player must meet to be “voted” in. That’s another point that is pretty unprofessional in my opinion. Why is it that players are “voted” into immortality in the baseball sense like they’re being voted in to an All-Star game? And All-Star selections should have objective standards as well. This is what happens when you have your business, and the MLB is a business, ruled by emotion alone, which parallels how most people live their lives. This whole Barry Bonds debate is all a moot point of course, the hall of fame is “voted” on by a select few people, who don’t even like baseball fans anyway so we shouldn’t put any bearing on their opinions anyway.
Happy to say I was at both the Gagne ab game and 756. Barry never disappointed. So many other great hrs.
Gentlemen. This presentation was excellent. I've literally watched the entire series twice.
My Grandfather born in 1914 was an avid baseball fan said Willie Mays the greatest baseball player he’s ever seen. My father born 1957 avid baseball fan believes Barry Bonds is the greatest baseball player he’s ever seen with or without steroids.
I think of Juan Soto's early years in Washington when I compare Bonds to an active player.
Appreciate the video
Barry Bonds is the 🐐👑
Don’t hate the player
Hate the game
Pls do this exact series on arod u guys deserve so much praise for these productions
There are many sides to bonds’s story. One one hand, bonds could be symbol for how sports figures are protected from hurting womem-the hyper masculinity that sports figures are suppose to be and that the women involved are nothing more than distractions at best. It’s that side of bonds that I feel should be scrutinized more and what keeps him out of the hall for me. For all of the media reports that lamabasted him, very few looked hard at his personal domestic issues.
One the other sides, bonds, a black man, was HATED by the nation for doing what is clearly an obvious act for any sports figure. The US government hearings Spent More time via hearings on the steroid issue than on the Iraq War. No one wanted to question why tax dollars were being spent on a nonissue, why there was an obesession with drugs, or why all of a sudden cheating g was not acceptable, why it was imprtsnt for president bush to call out steroids rather than his war on civil liberties. An embarrassment to what our nation values. While I doubt bonds being the post child of the hate against steroids was solely on race, I can’t help but feel that may have been sometimes the case. White players who took drugs weren’t criticized continuously or even prosecuted by the feds. Only Roger Clemens was and he was never put under house arrest. Bonds already had experience with racism both as kid and as a ball player before he juiced so he did feel that mostly likely. Also, the war on drugs itself has some very bad racial implications both in its origins, the law enacted, and the criminalization of predominantly nonwhite citizens. In that sense-steroids was a small look into what america values and bonds was at the heart of that.
one of the best takes i have ever read on this.
I've loved every minute of this series
In terms of getting Bonds out: You can’t pitch up in the zone because he can obliterate up top. You can’t pitch lower in the zone because he can golf it out. You can’t pitch away from him because he can mash oppo. You can’t pitch inside, because he’ll be right on you and turn it. You can’t pitch down the middle, because duh. The only available option to try and get bonds out is to not try at all.
Wow that's genius. Glad to see you were able to break from your work at NASA to drop that nugget
It is a discussion much like any other historic hero - the conversation is complicated, and can't be simplified honestly. These bigger than life personalities aren't ACTUALLY bigger than life. They are, in the end, people. And like all people, they have their positive achievements and their negative actions. When we try to make someone into a mythic hero, we are erasing a big part of their lives. So, yes, I do think Barry Bonds should be in HOF, and Roger Clemens as well. But their bios shouldn't skip over their mistakes. And not just those guys - guys like Cap Anson and Ty Cobb should be discussed in all their complexities as well. It is time to stop pretending like we have to admire ever aspect of our hero's lives. People can be awful human beings, and still accomplish admirable things.
I did watch him play, and he was the best player in baseball from 1990-2004. You could make an argument Griffey was better in the 90s, but I don't think that holds up to scrutiny.
Having grown up watching baseball throughout the 90s/00s when steroid use was at a peak I still think Bonds deserves to be in the HoF. The guy was one of the best with or without.
An as for the character stuff, I really dislike that this stuff holds voters back. The HoF is for what guys do on the baseball field. Guys like Schilling shouldn't be held out of the HoF because of his post career bs. There is plenty of old players in the HoF that were probably terrible people by today's standards, especially guys from say pre 1950-1960s.
Steroids or not, barry bonds is the best hitter I have ever seen, he is the greatest ball player, he was hitting 40 home runs n stealing 40 bases before he ever did steroids. Yes he should be in cooperstown
Keeping Bonds out of the Hall of Fame is really a discredit to everyone who is already in. Is it the Hall of Fame or the Hall of Popularity? Rose and Clemens absolutely belong in the HOF as well
Really enjoyed this series. Did a lot to help me better understand Bonds.
Does it really even matter if Barry is a hall of famer? I probably couldn't even name a quarter of the players in the hall of fame. Everybody will remember Bonds forever because he was the greatest or at least top 5 players ever.
David Ortiz is in, but we pretend steroids are disqualifying. I don't care he avoided getting named in a report. He was one of the most obvious juicers ever.
"Who's B Rabbit?" god dammit Matt!!!!!!
Aw , just leave him alone! Give him what he worked hard for
great series guys, good work!
If Scott Rolen's in the HOF, then Barry Bonds HAS to be in
Not being convicted doesn't "kind of matter" it absolutely matters. He is an innocent man until proven guilty. Anyway! I believe Barry Bonds belongs in the hall of Fame. He was a hall of famer before he ever took roids, just like Roger Clemens. (Btw you guys should do a video on Roger Clemens, I don't think his dominance gets talked about enough).
Don't underestimate the Veteran's Committee....with 7 other guys eligible, it made guys who thinks he's a HOFer think voting for him would be a waste of a vote if they know 3 or 4 guys are hard NO's.
Bonds is a hall of famer. That’s it, I don’t need to justify it.
Barry Bonds is not being kept out of the hall of fame because there's suspicion of him taking steroids. The MLB wasn't even testing for steroids and it wasn't against the rules at the time. They didn't do anything about steroids until there was a media cloud over the game because of the BALCO scandal. Barry Bonds is not the in the hall of fame because the media does not like him and players in the league, who are on the veterans committee do not like him. It's a popularity contest and as long as those voting standards are in place, baseball's hall of fame will continue to be illegitimate.
Bonds never came clean about using performance enhancing drugs. Him being denied the HoF entry is because he would stain the hard work of all the previous members. He went to far, like Lance Armstrong did, and Lance was stripped of his 7 titles, and its only fitting that Bonds is denied HoF entry.
You guys are making me feel old 😂. I grew up watching Barry and used to argue that he was a product of his era and that younger generations wouldn't take the hard stance that they did
I grew up watching Barry Bonds in SF and he drew so many people to the ball park as well as making so many young people like me life long fans in an era where baseball was not marketing to kids. Everyone knew what was going on with Bonds’ stats and it was talked about constantly. The guy may have been a jerk but he inspired lots of baseball fans at the time. The moral dilemma is only ever used for the negative but it should be positive as well. Baseball writers are too biased for todays HoF
Jeez. Matt is good at keeping suspense huh 34:45
I’d like to see him inducted, or at the very least his records given a place in the Hall. But I’m not sure it’ll ever happen. One can hope.
Barry Bonds is the greatest hitter in the history and the future of the game. Steroids do not make shitty players great. They do not make mediocre players great. Steroids do not enhance skill. At most steroid use MAY have kept Barry Bonds off the injured list. Very few, if any, of his home runs wouldn't have been home runs without Steroids. A Hall of Fame without Barry Bonds is completely illegitimate. Every hitter in the Hall is a little league hack compared to Bonds. If Bonds doesn't get in I will never acknowledge the Hall of Fame and I will never tolerate anyone who does.
No, Barry Bonds is NOT a Hall of Famer and he only has Barry Bonds to blame. Period.
Overall I enjoyed the series, but it seems like your final judgments came down to the age-old decision point of if this guy is in this guy should be in. And I get it, I really do. But prior mistakes in Hall of Fame selection don't serve as gateways for other people who may or may not be considered a mistake.
Is Mike wearing a Pine Barrens shirt from the Sopranos? Legendary episode lol.
Guy was an interior decorator
@@StarkRavingSports His house looked like shit
He is the greatest ever
This my third watch thru lmao “who is B Rabbit “ sent me😂
I’m a die hard baseball fan Yankees fan I canceled Jeter entry trip bc after Barry the hof means nothing IMO (steroid context, yes Morality ?Ty Cobb was the first so…
Dv Ted Williams probably would have suspended and eventually kicked out worst a conviction, a charge, at least a report ? 🤷🏻
False allegations against me would be rare (but a complicated millionaire )all to common
I’m sorry I disagree there but that’s ok of course
I think some things like TRT HGH , should be allowed just for players health but 🤷♀️ Great video,series , you guys did a better job then anything I’ve seen from major media and got just having a discussion very impressive
They already made 1 exception for a confirmed steriod user David Ortiz and he got in without an astrik so the same should be done for every steriod user
False allegations aren't rare. They are actually very common
only player in the history of the game to have 500hr and 500sb. most walks and intentional walks in history while carrying the most hr in a season and a career.
Oh I remember the 2016 Marlins season when Bonds was the hitting coach and Dee Gordon-Strange got popped for steroids that year.
Coincidence, I am sure.
Check out an article I wrote in 2013: "Barry Bonds, Baseball, and the Redemption of America." Please disregard the sub-headline, which the editors need to correct - and go straight to the article.
Its a nice overall view. It would be nice though if the left guy would stop interupting the other.
Mike apologizes for his interrupting
Two words: Fucking Absolutely!!!
Here we go.....
The footage in the background threw me off for a second.
Would love more videos like this
I think Scott Rolen got a boost into the Hall. He deserved it, but wasn't getting the votes. Now he is in, which seems right.
Guys like bonds and Clemons were hall of famers even before the roids plus you can’t deny the impact these guys had on the game at large rose should be in too
Court of public opinion is basically how Hall of Fame voting works in the first place, so IMO it's not a terrible argument to try and make. At the end of the day you're not voted in by how shiny your stats and accolades are, but how deserving either the baseball media Powers that Be or your peers think you are, and that varies wildly with no discernible rhyme or reason. The main argument against Bonds' Cooperstown candidacy is the character clause, but to what extent that can boil down to the ballot-toting media still parroting how much of a jerk he was with little substantial evidence against him is anyone's guess. If you take each one of the three major knocks on his career-steroids, perjury, DV-and take a *20%* bite off his stats for each, his career bWAR of 65.1 would _still_ surpass many Hall of Famers, including [fellow] committee inductees Fred McGriff (52.6) and Jack Morris (43.5), and be right in line with 2022 BBWAA inductee Scott Rolen (70.1).
The hard line stance is right: He did roids, you cheat, you don't get honored. If other HoFers are roiders then remove them.
now that I can respect as well the pick and choose bothers me. where u land on greenies?
@@tupacalypse88 harder to say. I think the strongest argument for Bonds is that they weren't testing for roids in his day. For stuff like greenies, were they ever tested for? I mean, I also think that they're a very different kind of performance boost because people aren't getting superhuman physical training boosts the way roids do. I can't say I know a lot.
Why is David Ortiz in then he was in the Mitchell Report and he got in 1st Ballot.
@@PKFlashBeta I don't think they were tested for I would assume anything giving energy would focus would be advantageous but yo what degree idk.
@@PKFlashBeta EFFECTS
The drugs help players deal with the grind of a 162-game season. They mask fatigue, increase arousal, increase alertness, increase aggressiveness and reaction time. Some players also claim to see the ball better, which may be because of the increased alertness." From the book ball four. with estimates as high as 85% of players using them he didn't give a time frame for that though but it just seems to late to pick one substance and ban people especially when bonds didnt do anything against the rules
Are we going to get a Roger Clemens counterpart?
No steroid user belongs in the Hall of Fame. Even if they only used steroids their final season it taints their career.
Of course so does arod Manny and everyone else
Yankee fan I always loved Manny put him in hell of a hitter
Y'all hit it out of the park, fan-freaking-tastic stuff.
Is Barry Bonds a Hall of Famer? Short Answer: Yes.
Long Answer? I was 11 when Bonds hit 73 in a season, I grew up with death star Barry Bonds. When I learned he *probably* took steroids, what I believe then and now, I was hurt. This was a hitting savant. This was the guy who absolutely nuked a ball in the 02 World Series that made my whole house quiet in awe. This was a guy who could and did everything a non-pitcher could on a ballfield. To this day the follow through on my swing has elements of Barry Bonds. When my child mind learned he *probably* cheated, I was hurt. I was angry and bitter with him. For almost two decades I was a hardline "Never in the Hall of Fame" guy. With age, and a greater perspective on life, I've grown softer on Bonds. I think he should be in the hall, him, Bud Selig, Mark McGwire, and Jose Canseco should have their names and faces front and center in the "Steroid Wing." We can't deny steroids happened and reshaped baseball, but we can give it context.
Bonds, the player deserves to be in the hall of fame, he earned that through a lifetime of hard work. It would be wrong to take that from him. It would also be wrong to ignore his, and the others of his era, faults.
Yes. You cant tell the story of baseball without barry bonds. HOF'er pre steriods, HOF'er with them.
There's no good reasons he shouldn't be a HOFer. Zero.
Do a video about Roger Clemens as well.
The funny part is people think baseball players don’t juice now when literally more players do than that era 😂 ‘omg Bonds cheated!’ bro stfu if you believe that than every athlete is a cheater
Let's settle this once and for all: the Hall of Fame needs a wing called 'The Hall of Infamy.' You can put all your bad boys and roid cases there; Clemens, Bonds, Rose, McGuire, heck put Canseco there too - he's as deserving as any. And I guarantee you tourists will spend more time in that section than anywhere else.
If he'd done it with out the roids absolutely
I think if you’re letting Bonds in, it opens the entire steroid era’s players getting in or not, open to debate. It’s not just about him, it’s if you are allowing the era to be counted officially.
Since Selig is in, I think that at least on a case by case basis, some of them should make it.
The DV stuff complicates it, so if you cut him off for that, they need to make a public statement making that very clear.
Y is this a debate ? HOF all the way
There is no way that steroids accounted for more than 10% of Bonds production. 90% and imo more than 90% of what he did at the plate was his abilities.
With that said, tak away 10% of his stats to account for steroids and you still got a guy with over 680 hrs and 64 in a season while still being the only member of special clubs like the 400-400 and 500-500 ( I believe steroids actually hindered his base running ability) and there is no way that player isn't first ballot.
10000000% a HOF
Yes.
Barry Bonds was already a hall of famer before he took steroids, and he faced pitchers who were taking steroids as well…
It's not complicated. The answer is YES. The only way you can say her doesn't belong in the HOF is if you also say anyone who ever took ANYTHING to enhance their performance shouldn't be in. In fact, you'd have to include anyone who was even accused of it!
Also, Sosa, McGuire, Palmero, Clemens, and for that matter, Rose should all be in as well.
The HOF is dumb.
If the records must be real and the drugs don’t matter, then why even keep steroids illegal? Since baseball fans don’t mind just let everyone juice up.
What is the criteria for HOF?
Is it the records? Does he exemplify the best of baseball?
To be among the best of the best, yes, and hell no!!
BBWAA is a joke.
It's the hall of FAME. Therefore if you're FAMOUS you're in.
Just like it's the all STAR game, not the all STAT game. A great first half of a season usually doesn't make a nobody a star.
Put Pete Rose in the hall of fame and Barry too!
Yes. He makes the Hall of Fame. He was never proven to be guilty. He broke every record. He was HoF worthy before and after. MLB benefited through this whole era. That is part of MLBs history, so MLB -- own up to it and get a better way to accept individuals into the HoF. Ethical media is dead.
Ty Cobb was a jerk and he made the HoF. Racists have made the HoF.
Put him in.
I don’t appreciate domestic violence allegations. Our justice system is a part of the Patriarchy so the Character Clause is valid since I don’t trust not guilty verdicts in a system that is purpose built to incentivize misogynistic violence. Bonds is guilty of DV in all but actual verdict. He’s not HOF worthy due to his character.
A lot of alleged off field. You say he “technically was not” convicted. He wasn’t convicted. The DV allegations were never proven. Bonds ex wife’s best friend testified in favor of Barry.
This is all to say that nothing has been proven. Only on field matters. His numbers are there. That’s all there is to it. He’s a hall of fame player.
Do I believe he knowingly used? Sure, but that doesn’t matter. Our opinions mean nothing. The only concrete thing we have is what happened on the field. So that is what matters.
i havent.
Yeah probably. But there has to be asterisks sadly.
Having seen him play many times live, there really is no comparison to his dominance. I don’t think any other player had a stadium counter for intentional walks! As a kid doing homework, my parents used to call me over the TV whenever he came up to bat.
As far as character goes Ty Cobb was a terrible human being and he's in the hall of fame. People need to be fair based on what has happened going all the way back.
Bob Costas has made the best case about Bonds having hall of fame stats before he allegedly started doing steroids. Bonds belongs in the hall of fame with if people think it's necessary a brief explanation about the era he played in and certain assumptions that have been made not only about him but many others.
i'd say take Bud out of the hall (since this is his mess to begin with) I'd also take Parry out of the hall as well since he openly admitted to using spitballs to get in in the first place and I'm sure there are more that could be removed to. as for Bonds himself I look at it like this if you cheat on a test they toss out the entire thing not just the one section of it or whatever...even considering his pre roids numbers are equal to/better than Chipper Jones who's in but that's me