Overall arrow weight penetrates better, so instead of increasing the overall arrow weight, make the increasing in the front. My experience with High FOC is that the tale, gets less control. It will make it easy’er to bareshaft tune, even with minor release issues. The size of the feathers is also less important with High FOC. Actually it helps at even shorter distances, like 5 yrds, by finishing the paradox quick’er, and in that way gets better penetration. My target is 20-25% for traditional Bowhunting, because of the short distance. Like you have proven, there is no difference at 20 yrd. As long as the weight is the same. This is only my experience. Great video, as always.
hj mate, from down under, keep making vids, i love them. beats the crap on tv we have. we are never too old to learn mate. i love what you do, and the time you spend doing it. thank you for being honest and straight up about it all. and for taking the time to do it too.
I'm thinking, in the real world, a little heavier point, a little higher FOC, and if your arrows are still flying right, you've got a good setup.(for hunting) Your videos are always enjoyable to watch.
All your videos are great! Thanks for your time! All I can say when it comes to hunting, there is an un said rule... Look up Troy Fowler. A good basketball coach said once, that's not your shot. "Just because you made it, doesn't mean it works. That called unsuccessful luck!"
Hey Greg, try shooting all your FOC arrows into a target on an angle, much like a quartering shot on game. I find my lower FOC shafts really dump energy as the shaft get torqued on impact, my higher FOC don’t have so much shaft flex and penetrate deeper. Really high FOC is only a concern to me when hunting extremely big game, like Moose etc. I’ve found these results in both recurve and crossbow from my personal testing. No one method is wrong or right, it’s about what work best for the shooter.
Greg, good video. As long as the arrow is tuned and flys straight as an ..... we'll arrow that's all that matters. Some have stated a heavy FOC will steer/pull the arrow straight to the target and more penetration. You kind dispelled that theory:-). Thank you.
I did much the same . I wanted to see what the fuss was about. I made up some yellow cedar shafts 11/32 tapered to 5/16 as described by Clay Hayes. I then tuned then to my 125 glue on tips and compared that to just a set of parallel shafts 11/32s. and what I found was a well tuned shaft was more important than foc. I didn't see enough difference to make it worth the extra effort .
Greg, thanks for an interesting video, as usual. I've read about FOC for years and sort of understand the theory/reasoning behind it, but for me the bottom line is how well am I shooting the arrow. If it is reasonably matched to the bow, and I'm doing my part to launch it well, then the accuracy should follow, particularly at trad bow distances. You showed that it doesn't seem to matter for penetration.
I'm shooting 13% FOC with my Black Hunter recurve bow for 3D archery and target shooting for 30 yards maximum. My Tenpoint Titan m1 crossbow is close to 20% FOC. That's what I have chosen for me. I'll change it if I see any problems with it. Great video. Thanks
My thoughts exactly. I would never shoot an arrow at an animal with less than 20% FOC ever again. High FOC arrows with razor sharp cut on contact broadheads.
When I took my black bear, in northern Ontario, I used a 300gr, single bevel broadhead. I shot a 55lbs Bama bows hunter, with a GT Traditional. I hit the far shoulder, and didn’t get a pass-through, but his shoulder was in pieces when we recovered him and skinned him. I don’t know if a lighter weight up front would have done the same, but the guide was certainly impressed, given the fact I was using a “toy” to hunt deadly animals (his words). I have a hard time getting arrows tuned right without using a lot of weight up front.
I too have to put weight up front to get my "proper" tune. So I believe FOC is natural, the question really becomes how much. Do you attribute the damage to FOC, overall weight, the broadhead or a combination of all three?
I like a little higher FOC, but not the EFOC some people use. I like to be in the 18-21% range. I personally found that they shoot much more accurate when there's a lot of wind however accuracy and penatration aren't really affected, just like your tests showed
I know from model rocketry, There is the Center of Pressure (aerodynamics, due to the vanes) and a Center of Gravity. that a too low Center of Gravity, will make your rocket fly unpredictable.. But a too high center of gravity, will make the rocket turn into the wind ! So. a good tuned COG, will make the rocket fly the most straight up, regardless of the light breeze... Maybe it works the same for arrows... :)
Perhaps to a degree, but given a vertical Vs horizontal flight the action of gravity is completely different on the projectile. Also the acceleration curve is very different, almost opposite.
Gravity is the wrong word, should be the centre of mass. Gravity has nothing to do with stability. Gravity works the se no matter what direction or velocity the arrow, bullet, whatever is moving.
Would adding 25 g heavier point compensate for stiffening of arrows spine caused by cutting 2 inches off a 400 spine of approximately 10 g/ inch traditional arrows? Great 👍 video .the army teach in a pedantic fashion.. probably because they assume recruit is stupid...you strike a good balance.. regards from NSW Australia
Man i love this. I watched that video to. Yours reaffirms. It seems more so that point weight is really just for tuning whatever arrow shaft you choose to fly straight. Im interested in the heavier foc. Up im the 300gn or h8gher ranges up to 650gn. Ive even seen guys using 1200gn total weight arrows. God id hate to shoot that weight. But i wonder if penetration changes that high?
I really like the impact I can see. If I hit, there is a diffident response, I'm using a 45#recurve. The heavy broadheads seem to be more forgiving when I can not get my shot cycle perfect. At 14 yards I heard the bones break shooting a 300 grain broadhead.
Wish you would make an in depth video about completly tuneing a recurve, gold tip arrows from start to finish. FOC fletching, incerts, the right kind of string for both hunting abd target shooting, pretty much every thing a person needs to know when first getting a trad bow. I have been shooting both indoor and hunting with compounds for years but at 66 am losing a lot of my vision and after 3 operations it isnt getting any better. Not going blind but just not good enough to use compound sights. I now thing its time to go with recurve shooting.
Placebo effect may have something to do with it! Shoot the different weights through a chronograph. The bow can only impart so much energy into the arrow. The heavier weight flies slower, but if they actually flew the same speed... you’d most likely see a penetration difference.
Say a 40lb bow pushes a light arrow 100 grain tip that impacts 4 inches at 20 yards, then a heavier arrow with a 150 grain tip impact 4 inches they are both carrying the same 40lb energy from the same 40ld bow it is the bows energy through the arrows which determines the 4 inch depth not the arrows they are carrying the same energy in 2 different forms 1 is lighter speed and 1 is heavy mass ).the same energy transference from the same bow, the heavier arrow and lighter arrow will fall of over distance at the same spot
I like your logic. Try this on. The heavier arrow slows the string more on release than the lighter arrow and so has more time to absorb energy. The differential between string speed (dry fire) and arrows speed allows more energy to be collected in heavier arrow, so it hits harder and deeper .
The bowling ball may impart as much energy as the .45 on impact, but it's not going to penetrate as it spreads that energy over a wide area. The main reason your arrows are not penetrating any further is because you're putting in roughly the same amount of energy from the same bow to each. The paradox means the heavier arrow cannot take more energy unless it's also stiffer, instead of just flexes more and loses that energy shortly after leaving the bow.
The amount of energy is the same, that amount of energy put into the arrow is dictated by the bow itself. Now, does a lesser spine or weaker spine, not absorb as much? That is a good question, which leads to another, how much energy is lost because of it? In my simple test I had a 100 grain difference between the lightest and the heaviest, that is a aubstanial amount and yet there was no difference in penetration. Was this due to "less" energy or was it due to something else? More questions than answers.
Yes, a complicated subject. For the weaker spined (heavier pile) arrow to flex more (which we know happens from high speed footage), there has to be some energy expended to do that. This would result in a slower arrow speed. I would expect that is why penetration is very similar, a heavier arrow hitting the target more slowly Vs a lighter one hitting it faster. Interestingly, that theory should be easily proven as it infers that's the heavier arrow would penetrate deeper at, let's say, 5 yards. And the reverse should be seen at 60 yards, with the heavier arrow having slowed further.
@@TradArchery101 also, this test would be more accurate done with bare shafts, fletchings are probably evening out any differences. Not very practical though...
That is why I did my test like I did. If I wanted more penetration using my current arrows, is it as simple as adding more weight upfront to increase FOC. No, it is not. As for the flexing, how much is bled off during that? Is it enough to make a difference at hunting distance? The biggest thing I have found in test arrow speeds is the biggest drop off in speed is not at release, but within the first 10 yards, after that the speed really stabilizes. Then again we come into the circle, while a heavier arrow might have less speed, it has more mass and that should mean more energy.
@@TradArchery101 There's enough questions here for a physics PhD thesis, even then I don't think the subject could be covered in its entirety. Ultimately, those of us with just the solid basics in physics, we can only experiment and see what works and what doesn't.
What many archers are talking about, really, is Extreme FOC. Putting very high amounts of weight up front. Every arrow is FOC due to putting an insert and a point on the arrow. Check a standard arrow from someone at a shoot. You will find that arrow's balance point is FOC. The guys who put 300 or 400 gr up front have bought into the claim that more is better and will help you kill more critters. I do not worry about that. I tune for good flight and thats all.
Are each point on properly tuned on bare shafts for that particular point weight? If not would that hinder penetration? Doesn't good penetration come from an arrow flying as straight as possible? I understand it as though the arrows are the same spine just the point weight was changed? Wondering because we are taught point weight changes arrow spine
The question is, how much does it change it? I have found that i can shoot different weights on the same arrow and still shoot well. Much of that claim, comes from field archers shoot long distance. It does not make that much difference at 20 yards.
I freaking dread arrow tuning, but switching to trad I have no option. I have half a dozen easton legacy traditional carbons full length which are humonguous 34" uncut and a bit stiff at 500 spine on a 40# recurve. Planning on cutting them to 30" and stick a 200 grain point on em for 3D
They say that foc is not important well it is .if you want to triangulate a clean arc the foc is 10 percent not 8 not 12 because your arrow is in a fight between 2 forces over distance ,energy in nature has an angle of 19.5 degrees against gravity with a gradient of 20-1 , these 2 forces working against each other is why your arrow rotates.... not the offset in the fletchings they are offset to keep up with momentum. The archery world is a bit ficaled and confused as to what is going on , its a numbers game the 2 forces acting against each over creat a number 19.5 + 20-1 = 40 then dived it by 4 =10 percent f.o.c .4 is the controlling number of motion ,its a pit confusing I now but it's correct numbers are the universal language . So you build an arrow with 10 present f.o.c then control the bows power to correct the arrows weak or stiff paradox I.e strate flight maintaining a clean arce this tune is in reverse.think of it this way the arrow is carrying 2 types of information as a tunning fork energy and mass . 10 percent f.o.c is nature's fulcrum. As a split force 19.5 right force
This might be a stupid question but why wear an arm gaurd when no longer a beginner? If you are able to shoot with propper form you shouldn't be slapping your arm right? Not being facetious, I am still a beginner but curious.
RockHumper Probly a just incase thing, I was tinkering with my bow the other day and forgot to wear my arm guard, and after a dozen shots took the bow down for storage only to realize I never hit my arm.
Awesome, I had no idea. I just like shooting heavy point arrows. The heavy point does seem to have a greater affect on game. Whether 100 grain or 300 grain broadheads I still often have pass thru. It makes me think of getting hit with a pin pong ball or a golf ball, which going to hurt more?
A heavier head should have more effect, I have to wonder how much the design of the broadhead impacts it too. Good questions. I was thinking of doing a video on it.
Yes that would interesting. "Do heavy broadheads increase my kill range?" or "What is the kill range of Broadheads?" I like the single bevel, 2 blade, 300 grain broadheads by Steel Force, with a 400 spine Gold Tip carbon arrow. This combination is shooting well for me out to 40 yards.
Shot placement is the most important in hunting, especially since most shots are within 40 even with compound bows. You might have some who can stretch it beyond, but a small percentage of hunters who can and they would have to have the terrain to allow it too. I focus much more on knowing vital shot areas and shot form, over FOC all day long. I would guess shot placement is also key for target shooting under some distance as well. Not a target shooter. Just assuming a 10 is a 10 regardless of how far it sticks in the target. So who cares about penetration in target shooting. I could see FOC, arrow weight, etc becoming more of an issue outside a certain distance, say 40 yrds. Might have an impact in windy conditions, but pure speculation on my part.
Foc comes into play when hitting heavy bone. The masse center is closer to the head and cause less flex on impact. On fome or Meat you dont se that muck difference.
Not too sure of that. In many throwing weapons like the Pilum, Javelin and such they do not have heavy FOC, in fact many carry a weight well behind the point. Mass is Mass.
Heavy FOC worked for me when shooting 500 spine arrows, tried same setup with 600 spine on same bow and they flew like wet noodles. Guess this goes back to good ol fashion arrow tuning wizardry.
No. Thanks for the video, it made me read some research papers on the subject (static margin and centre of aerodynamic pressure). But what I took away from your video and the papers, is that arrow speed is 1.4 times more effective than arrow mass at improving penetration, and that increased f.o.c. causes increased weathervane effect. There is a minimum f.o.c. that can be calculated to provide stable flight but since arrow shafts are very small in cross section compared to length 10% is good enough. Now, if you put a big wing on the front (like a broadhead) you will require I higher f.o.c. to compensate for moving the centre of drag.
You have to get over a certain percent before you get to see increased penetration have to respect ashbys opinion years of research and he has killed more big animals than we are ever going to see ...try your test with no fletching and see what happens
Old trick I was taught in swordsmanship. If you see a problem, look three moves back. You see a poor release, I see an over rotation of the elbow. Thanks for the advice, but I will stick with Joel Turner and Tom Clum Sr.
Overall arrow weight penetrates better, so instead of increasing the overall arrow weight, make the increasing in the front. My experience with High FOC is that the tale, gets less control. It will make it easy’er to bareshaft tune, even with minor release issues. The size of the feathers is also less important with High FOC. Actually it helps at even shorter distances, like 5 yrds, by finishing the paradox quick’er, and in that way gets better penetration. My target is 20-25% for traditional Bowhunting, because of the short distance. Like you have proven, there is no difference at 20 yrd. As long as the weight is the same. This is only my experience. Great video, as always.
hj mate, from down under, keep making vids, i love them. beats the crap on tv we have. we are never too old to learn mate. i love what you do, and the time you spend doing it. thank you for being honest and straight up about it all. and for taking the time to do it too.
Craig, another absolutely brilliant and instructive video. You're a genius, you remind me of me.
I'm thinking, in the real world, a little heavier point, a little higher FOC, and if your arrows are still flying right, you've got a good setup.(for hunting) Your videos are always enjoyable to watch.
Thanks for all the prep work that you put into these tests.
All your videos are great!
Thanks for your time!
All I can say when it comes to hunting, there is an un said rule...
Look up Troy Fowler.
A good basketball coach said once, that's not your shot. "Just because you made it, doesn't mean it works. That called unsuccessful luck!"
Hey Greg, try shooting all your FOC arrows into a target on an angle, much like a quartering shot on game. I find my lower FOC shafts really dump energy as the shaft get torqued on impact, my higher FOC don’t have so much shaft flex and penetrate deeper. Really high FOC is only a concern to me when hunting extremely big game, like Moose etc. I’ve found these results in both recurve and crossbow from my personal testing. No one method is wrong or right, it’s about what work best for the shooter.
Greg, good video. As long as the arrow is tuned and flys straight as an ..... we'll arrow that's all that matters. Some have stated a heavy FOC will steer/pull the arrow straight to the target and more penetration. You kind dispelled that theory:-). Thank you.
A larger f.o.c. will help the arrow point in to the wind.
I did much the same . I wanted to see what the fuss was about. I made up some yellow cedar shafts 11/32 tapered to 5/16 as described by Clay Hayes. I then tuned then to my 125 glue on tips and compared that to just a set of parallel shafts 11/32s. and what I found was a well tuned shaft was more important than foc. I didn't see enough difference to make it worth the extra effort .
I just want good arrow flight, couldn't care about FOC, GPP, etc. As long as it hits where i want with decent flight, I'm happy.
Greg, thanks for an interesting video, as usual. I've read about FOC for years and sort of understand the theory/reasoning behind it, but for me the bottom line is how well am I shooting the arrow. If it is reasonably matched to the bow, and I'm doing my part to launch it well, then the accuracy should follow, particularly at trad bow distances. You showed that it doesn't seem to matter for penetration.
I'm shooting 13% FOC with my Black Hunter recurve bow for 3D archery and target shooting for 30 yards maximum. My Tenpoint Titan m1 crossbow is close to 20% FOC. That's what I have chosen for me. I'll change it if I see any problems with it. Great video. Thanks
Greg you should check out ‘the ranch fairy’ 🏹😊
My thoughts exactly. I would never shoot an arrow at an animal with less than 20% FOC ever again. High FOC arrows with razor sharp cut on contact broadheads.
When I took my black bear, in northern Ontario, I used a 300gr, single bevel broadhead. I shot a 55lbs Bama bows hunter, with a GT Traditional. I hit the far shoulder, and didn’t get a pass-through, but his shoulder was in pieces when we recovered him and skinned him. I don’t know if a lighter weight up front would have done the same, but the guide was certainly impressed, given the fact I was using a “toy” to hunt deadly animals (his words). I have a hard time getting arrows tuned right without using a lot of weight up front.
I too have to put weight up front to get my "proper" tune. So I believe FOC is natural, the question really becomes how much.
Do you attribute the damage to FOC, overall weight, the broadhead or a combination of all three?
I like a little higher FOC, but not the EFOC some people use. I like to be in the 18-21% range. I personally found that they shoot much more accurate when there's a lot of wind however accuracy and penatration aren't really affected, just like your tests showed
FOC helps the feathers correcting the arrows. So you should like ;)
I know from model rocketry, There is the Center of Pressure (aerodynamics, due to the vanes) and a Center of Gravity.
that a too low Center of Gravity, will make your rocket fly unpredictable..
But a too high center of gravity, will make the rocket turn into the wind !
So. a good tuned COG, will make the rocket fly the most straight up, regardless of the light breeze...
Maybe it works the same for arrows... :)
Perhaps to a degree, but given a vertical Vs horizontal flight the action of gravity is completely different on the projectile. Also the acceleration curve is very different, almost opposite.
Gravity is the wrong word, should be the centre of mass. Gravity has nothing to do with stability. Gravity works the se no matter what direction or velocity the arrow, bullet, whatever is moving.
Would adding 25 g heavier point compensate for stiffening of arrows spine caused by cutting 2 inches off a 400 spine of approximately 10 g/ inch traditional arrows? Great 👍 video .the army teach in a pedantic fashion.. probably because they assume recruit is stupid...you strike a good balance.. regards from NSW Australia
Man i love this. I watched that video to. Yours reaffirms. It seems more so that point weight is really just for tuning whatever arrow shaft you choose to fly straight. Im interested in the heavier foc. Up im the 300gn or h8gher ranges up to 650gn. Ive even seen guys using 1200gn total weight arrows. God id hate to shoot that weight. But i wonder if penetration changes that high?
I really like the impact I can see. If I hit, there is a diffident response, I'm using a 45#recurve. The heavy broadheads seem to be more forgiving when I can not get my shot cycle perfect. At 14 yards I heard the bones break shooting a 300 grain broadhead.
Wish you would make an in depth video about completly tuneing a recurve, gold tip arrows from start to finish. FOC fletching, incerts, the right kind of string for both hunting abd target shooting, pretty much every thing a person needs to know when first getting a trad bow. I have been shooting both indoor and hunting with compounds for years but at 66 am losing a lot of my vision and after 3 operations it isnt getting any better. Not going blind but just not good enough to use compound sights. I now thing its time to go with recurve shooting.
Placebo effect may have something to do with it!
Shoot the different weights through a chronograph. The bow can only impart so much energy into the arrow. The heavier weight flies slower, but if they actually flew the same speed... you’d most likely see a penetration difference.
Interesting stuff Greg, thanks for sharing 👍👍👍
Sorry the end of lower was not finished but it's to do with the understanding of correct arrow flight God is that the time .
Say a 40lb bow pushes a light arrow 100 grain tip that impacts 4 inches at 20 yards, then a heavier arrow with a 150 grain tip impact 4 inches they are both carrying the same 40lb energy from the same 40ld bow it is the bows energy through the arrows which determines the 4 inch depth not the arrows they are carrying the same energy in 2 different forms 1 is lighter speed and 1 is heavy mass ).the same energy transference from the same bow, the heavier arrow and lighter arrow will fall of over distance at the same spot
I like your logic. Try this on. The heavier arrow slows the string more on release than the lighter arrow and so has more time to absorb energy. The differential between string speed (dry fire) and arrows speed allows more energy to be collected in heavier arrow, so it hits harder and deeper .
Good info Greg thanks for posting
The bowling ball may impart as much energy as the .45 on impact, but it's not going to penetrate as it spreads that energy over a wide area. The main reason your arrows are not penetrating any further is because you're putting in roughly the same amount of energy from the same bow to each. The paradox means the heavier arrow cannot take more energy unless it's also stiffer, instead of just flexes more and loses that energy shortly after leaving the bow.
The amount of energy is the same, that amount of energy put into the arrow is dictated by the bow itself. Now, does a lesser spine or weaker spine, not absorb as much? That is a good question, which leads to another, how much energy is lost because of it? In my simple test I had a 100 grain difference between the lightest and the heaviest, that is a aubstanial amount and yet there was no difference in penetration. Was this due to "less" energy or was it due to something else? More questions than answers.
Yes, a complicated subject. For the weaker spined (heavier pile) arrow to flex more (which we know happens from high speed footage), there has to be some energy expended to do that. This would result in a slower arrow speed. I would expect that is why penetration is very similar, a heavier arrow hitting the target more slowly Vs a lighter one hitting it faster.
Interestingly, that theory should be easily proven as it infers that's the heavier arrow would penetrate deeper at, let's say, 5 yards. And the reverse should be seen at 60 yards, with the heavier arrow having slowed further.
@@TradArchery101 also, this test would be more accurate done with bare shafts, fletchings are probably evening out any differences. Not very practical though...
That is why I did my test like I did. If I wanted more penetration using my current arrows, is it as simple as adding more weight upfront to increase FOC. No, it is not.
As for the flexing, how much is bled off during that? Is it enough to make a difference at hunting distance? The biggest thing I have found in test arrow speeds is the biggest drop off in speed is not at release, but within the first 10 yards, after that the speed really stabilizes. Then again we come into the circle, while a heavier arrow might have less speed, it has more mass and that should mean more energy.
@@TradArchery101 There's enough questions here for a physics PhD thesis, even then I don't think the subject could be covered in its entirety. Ultimately, those of us with just the solid basics in physics, we can only experiment and see what works and what doesn't.
What many archers are talking about, really, is Extreme FOC. Putting very high amounts of weight up front. Every arrow is FOC due to putting an insert and a point on the arrow. Check a standard arrow from someone at a shoot. You will find that arrow's balance point is FOC. The guys who put 300 or 400 gr up front have bought into the claim that more is better and will help you kill more critters. I do not worry about that. I tune for good flight and thats all.
Are each point on properly tuned on bare shafts for that particular point weight? If not would that hinder penetration? Doesn't good penetration come from an arrow flying as straight as possible? I understand it as though the arrows are the same spine just the point weight was changed? Wondering because we are taught point weight changes arrow spine
The question is, how much does it change it? I have found that i can shoot different weights on the same arrow and still shoot well. Much of that claim, comes from field archers shoot long distance. It does not make that much difference at 20 yards.
Oh i remember now..... I read this on facebook.
Didnt need to watch it. ;-)
Joking aside.
Great vid.
Thanks Greg
I freaking dread arrow tuning, but switching to trad I have no option. I have half a dozen easton legacy traditional carbons full length which are humonguous 34" uncut and a bit stiff at 500 spine on a 40# recurve. Planning on cutting them to 30" and stick a 200 grain point on em for 3D
Interested to know what would shooting different spine weights do with the 200 gr. point versus the 125 gr. Point.
I have seen people use GT Trads with 200 grain points in 400, 500 and 600 spine and they all flew great.
great video,but I try to make my arrows around 11% FOC,and they work great.great video
They say that foc is not important well it is .if you want to triangulate a clean arc the foc is 10 percent not 8 not 12 because your arrow is in a fight between 2 forces over distance ,energy in nature has an angle of 19.5 degrees against gravity with a gradient of 20-1 , these 2 forces working against each other is why your arrow rotates.... not the offset in the fletchings they are offset to keep up with momentum. The archery world is a bit ficaled and confused as to what is going on , its a numbers game the 2 forces acting against each over creat a number 19.5 + 20-1 = 40 then dived it by 4 =10 percent f.o.c .4 is the controlling number of motion ,its a pit confusing I now but it's correct numbers are the universal language . So you build an arrow with 10 present f.o.c then control the bows power to correct the arrows weak or stiff paradox I.e strate flight maintaining a clean arce this tune is in reverse.think of it this way the arrow is carrying 2 types of information as a tunning fork energy and mass . 10 percent f.o.c is nature's fulcrum. As a split force 19.5 right force
This might be a stupid question but why wear an arm gaurd when no longer a beginner? If you are able to shoot with propper form you shouldn't be slapping your arm right? Not being facetious, I am still a beginner but curious.
RockHumper Probly a just incase thing, I was tinkering with my bow the other day and forgot to wear my arm guard, and after a dozen shots took the bow down for storage only to realize I never hit my arm.
I only wear mine in winter when I have lots of clothing on, to keep the clothing out of te string path
I do not have to wear one, I wear one just in case.
@@TradArchery101 fair enough! Thanks for the reply.
@@rubenv3026 thanks for this! My buddy was just explaining how he lost a doe a few years argh because he slapped his winter jacket!
Awesome, I had no idea. I just like shooting heavy point arrows. The heavy point does seem to have a greater affect on game. Whether 100 grain or 300 grain broadheads I still often have pass thru.
It makes me think of getting hit with a pin pong ball or a golf ball, which going to hurt more?
A heavier head should have more effect, I have to wonder how much the design of the broadhead impacts it too. Good questions. I was thinking of doing a video on it.
Yes that would interesting. "Do heavy broadheads increase my kill range?" or "What is the kill range of Broadheads?" I like the single bevel, 2 blade, 300 grain broadheads by Steel Force, with a 400 spine Gold Tip carbon arrow. This combination is shooting well for me out to 40 yards.
Being traditional archer myself I usually aim for 19% to 21% FOC
Sound to me you’ll have to ask a rocket scientist the must work with FOC.
Shot placement is the most important in hunting, especially since most shots are within 40 even with compound bows. You might have some who can stretch it beyond, but a small percentage of hunters who can and they would have to have the terrain to allow it too. I focus much more on knowing vital shot areas and shot form, over FOC all day long.
I would guess shot placement is also key for target shooting under some distance as well. Not a target shooter. Just assuming a 10 is a 10 regardless of how far it sticks in the target. So who cares about penetration in target shooting. I could see FOC, arrow weight, etc becoming more of an issue outside a certain distance, say 40 yrds. Might have an impact in windy conditions, but pure speculation on my part.
Foc comes into play when hitting heavy bone. The masse center is closer to the head and cause less flex on impact. On fome or Meat you dont se that muck difference.
Not too sure of that. In many throwing weapons like the Pilum, Javelin and such they do not have heavy FOC, in fact many carry a weight well behind the point. Mass is Mass.
Ranch fairy is about killing.....
Hello Greg, what spine arrows were you using during this test?
Gold tip traditional XT's, 600 spine
Ranch fairy on TH-cam
Heavy FOC worked for me when shooting 500 spine arrows, tried same setup with 600 spine on same bow and they flew like wet noodles. Guess this goes back to good ol fashion arrow tuning wizardry.
Hi f o c no fletchings needed
What ever flies straight i say....
No.
Thanks for the video, it made me read some research papers on the subject (static margin and centre of aerodynamic pressure).
But what I took away from your video and the papers, is that arrow speed is 1.4 times more effective than arrow mass at improving penetration, and that increased f.o.c. causes increased weathervane effect. There is a minimum f.o.c. that can be calculated to provide stable flight but since arrow shafts are very small in cross section compared to length 10% is good enough.
Now, if you put a big wing on the front (like a broadhead) you will require I higher f.o.c. to compensate for moving the centre of drag.
You have to get over a certain percent before you get to see increased penetration have to respect ashbys opinion years of research and he has killed more big animals than we are ever going to see ...try your test with no fletching and see what happens
Why should I test with no fletching? Does anyone hunt with no fletching?
100 yds for me.... Target
Study archerywinchester on TH-cam he will get you a on your way to a proper release.
Old trick I was taught in swordsmanship. If you see a problem, look three moves back. You see a poor release, I see an over rotation of the elbow. Thanks for the advice, but I will stick with Joel Turner and Tom Clum Sr.
Dude......try reading Dr Ashby please before dismissing
So basically you made this video to prove that you have no clue about the subject in which your video is titled. Smh!
So Basically you wrote this to let everyone know that you are smarter than the rest of us. smh!