Why Porsche’s .1 and .2 model release is a genius strategy
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 22 มี.ค. 2024
- Let's look at why Porsche does mid-generation updates and why this is such a smart business strategy for the company. They don't just thoughtfully engineer great cars, they're equally calculated in how they run the company.
Correction:
3:25 Base model actually came with a 3.4L flat 6
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TLDR : on their base models Porsche staggers the release of a new engine with the one of a new chassis (.1 = new chassis and .2 = new engine) which limits the risk they are taking as there is never a car that is 100% new. Good video btw
Perfect, thank you! This was needed.
You saved everyone 8 minutes with 2 sentences, thanks.
@@JrSertan my pleasure :)
@@Oblivion_Industries…sometimes change the transmissions in the .2s
same with BMW LCI. Lifetime Cycle Improvements are a mild facelift, but always new engines. Next gen chassis gets an existing engine from the previous-gen LCI.
It is the iPhone “S” model upgrade of the automotive industry.
And the M1 MacBook Air.
Thats literally just the name for the Facelifts. Almost every manufactorer has a facelift midcycle, Porsche doesnt really do anything different here. Calling it "Submodels" is comical, its literally just a facelift, like BMW calls theirs LCI, Mercedes Modellpflege etc etc
It’s typically a lot more than a facelift. Generally there are new engines or drivetrain options, the previous drivetrains are often boosted with power. Porsche will make updates to the interior and introduce new tech as well.
Porsches Facelift is unusual because they update their engines off- cycle, meaning that new engines are introduced with the facelift. They started doing so with the 997. 997.2 introduced the direct injection engine, 991.2 introduced the 3.0 turbo engine.
Spoken like someone who didn’t even watch the video.
Ferrari does something similar, but rolls the whole model number. They alternate between major chassis revisions and power train revisions.
@@hbullock Yeah, I commented before watching the video and felt like an idiot when I realized that the video is about exactly that.
@@Quadratkamm74 Eh, I’m not sure why, but the internet encourages that; we absorb content in order to respond and not to understand. It is a tendency we all have to constantly guard against; I know I do. There has to be a good psych study in there somewhere. :) Cheers!
I own both a 997.2 c2 and 991.1 c2. The 997.2 is a 3.6 and 991.1 is a 3.4. Power output is virtually the same though. Enjoyed your video. Thanks.
Yeah I screwed up on the 3.4 engine and misspoke but thanks for watching!!
How many Porsches have you had in the past? Was that a prerequisite for getting the new models?
@@avogoofy5130 I’ve had 6 Porsches. 3 different iterations of 911. For any 991 generation I would want Bose, sport exhaust, and sport chrono. For 997 I just need Bose and a manual transmission. I would not buy a 992 unless it was a GT product. Just not my style. I have not owned anything older than a 997.
I swear, they intentionally make .1 not look as good as they can, to save it for .2. Like this 991.1 tail lights. Or 997.1 gt3 spoiler. Or 991.1 gt3 front bumper.
I do like the 997.1 overall though…I like atlas grey 997.1
Maybe the .2 is just fixing the UI bugs of the .1? 🤣
Actually I do like 991.1 taillight and the exhaust pipe layout better than the .2.
Did you take into account the 991.2 GTS exhaust?😅
They do. Its not necessarily about making the original look worse, but more about making the facelift look fresher. They don't do it out of bad faith, they just want to make sure that the facelift is still appealing to customers when their lease runs up on their prefacelift car.
Which years are you talking about? There are many years for each of those models.
FWIW, the base 991 is a 3.4. ✌🏼
Oh damn you're right, how'd I screw that up?!
This is industry standard for most OEM's, but Porsche have definitely gotten it down to a tee.
I worked on a project a while back and it was a big deal for the business because it was effectively a four year mid life facelift, but due to certain circumstances and politics we were only given two years to complete it. It was made even worse because this platform accounted for the majority of income for the business. Somehow we pulled it off, which I'm still pretty proud of.
I’m not rich so I bought a used 981 Boxster S with the 9A1 engine. It’s a fantastic car. Been almost trouble free with a few very minor glitches and is an extremely well designed and built car. All the parts are designed to be accessible for maintenance and repair unlike pretty much every other brand, they are robust durable and reliable cars besides being incredible to drive
Scouring the message boards there seem to be almost no serious common issues on the 9A1 engine so far which is great!
I guess most manufacturers I can think of do this. BMW did it with the first Z4 E85 using the M engines from the E46 range and when the LCI came out they introduced the N engines, which the newer E90 range used and the newer E89 Z4 as well. Same with 1 series 135i with the N54 for the pre face-lift and then updated it to the N55 for the LCI, which was carried over to the M235I F22 2 years later, and then F22 got the B58 when its LCI came out and now the current 2 series still uses an updated B58, and so on.
wow, just found this channel, and I'm amazed. Keep it out
Thanks, glad you're enjoying it!
Simply elegant
New sub from the FB group. Good shit
🙏 thank you!
I actually didn’t know this. Thank you!
You're welcome, thanks for watching!
This is a similar strategy to BMW, they refresh their engines in the facelift model. In the E46, they switched from the M52 to the M54, in the E90 they did this in the diesel engines and in the F30 they switched from the N family to the B family, which they still use today in the G20 LCI. But Porsche seems to do this in a more strict fashion, almost like clockwork.
exactly what I was thinking. Basically up till the F series cars they were doing basically the same thing.
What an excellent video. I guess I’m one of the oddballs but I can easily tell .1 from .2. I never realized m about a new model with an old engine - great callout !
Thanks for watching!
So staggered chassis and engine, cool
Bingo!
Very interesting video 👍If only Porsche had followed this advice when Launching the Taycan model. The early versions were plagued with mechanical, electrical & software issues.
Yeah, 991 GT3 too, which had the engine fires and the recalls.
They are very thoughtful of emptying your pockets too
I used to say Im not a big fan of Porsches, but having been in multiple cars, and driven a few of them, coupled with this video, I think it has solidified my passion for Porsche cars! Thank you! I did not even know they had specific models with the "dot" numbering system, very cool!
Hi,
I liked the video. That chart of models and engines looks to be a very handy reference. Is there a web link which you can share?
Hi, yes, I found it here but it's also on wikipedia with the same info. Hope it helps! www.stuttcars.com/porsche-data/porsche-engines/
Another excellent video Vince, keep them coming!
Thanks, will do!
Great video
Glad you enjoyed it
BMW does this too e.g. e90 335d pre lci had an m57 while the lci had an n57. Then the f30 generation got the n57 and the lci 340d got the new b57 and so on
I manage a supply chain for a large and well known automotive manufacturer and I can tell you it almost exclusively boils down to cost and supply chain constraints. It would be virtually impossible to come out with a new vehicle or existing vehicle with major changes every year. If it were to happen, your average car would be costing around the same as a house.
In the case of 911s, they do!
Good video
Glad you enjoyed it!
I had no idea that the engines are only updated on .2 cars, now I get the hype. Great video!
Thanks glad you liked it!
They should bring back the A, B nomenclature, like that used on 356 models. 992B rolls off the tongue better than "992 dot two".
Im literally waiting to see the 992.2 and how crazy that will be lol
Hybrid I think right?
991.1 was a true change compared with 991.2. NA models all became turbos.
Was the 912 in the 60’s the “type .1” of the original 900 series? Did it use the 4 from the 356?
Oh that's an interesting thought..yes the 912 used the 4 cylinder engine from the 356. So new chassis, old engine. But it was a bit different back then because the 911 and 912 were being sold simultaneously.
Thank you.
Actually 997 was the last 911 powered by a Porsche motor.
Since 991 , 911 embeded a volkwagen motor and the business strategy as well.
how can i find that excel with every model and engine code?
There are a few sites I found -- this one seems to have them all! en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Porsche_engines
The 993 had a standard and later varioram engine without calling it 993.1 and 993.2.
It`s the exact same system as British cars use Mk1 , Mk 2 etc etc
Boxster was a new car that premiered over 25 years ago
Is there a 996.1 using the air cooled metzger engine?
Sadly nope. I think they started this system with the 996.2 basically.
What about the Cayenne when it debuted and Macan and the electric Macan?
The Carrera GT, or 918 spyder?
Speaking in absolutes about a business model that's well documented, and easily disproven...... Seems ill advised.
Why would they apply a strategy like that to limited production cars like the carrera GT or the 918 spyder? They don't stay in production long enough to iterate.
They do the .1 and .2 strategy with the cayman and boxster. I dunno about the SUVs.
@@AtypicalDriver I was referring to the thing you said about Porsche never debuting a totally new model and platform to their lineup. The .1 .2 is a numerical differentiator that a lot of manufacturing companies use to keep track of their various offerings. It's basically "splitting hairs."
This is also what Apple did with the iPhone, the "s" models were significant improvements and then the non-"s" were only a re-bodied version of the previous "s". 5 was not that different from the 4s, 6 not that different from 5s, 7 not that different from 6s, you get the idea. But people always say the "s" models were the ones that had small upgrades, even though it was the other way around. I think this is how people would feel about the 911 generations, thinking it's the .1 that offers a brand new car even though it's arguably the .2.
So true.....the iPhone came out in 2007, so maybe they copied Porsche's approach? 🤷♂️
@@AtypicalDriver can’t be sure about that, for all we know Porsche could have copied it from a different brand from an entirely different industry too.
Any thoughts on why Porsche had a 2.7 in the 987.1, then a 2.9 in the 987.2 and then went back to a 2.7 in the 981.1...?
The 2.9 in the 987.2 has more in common with the 2.7 in the 981.1. It is basically the same 9A1 engine, with direct fuel injection added for 981.1, and reduced in capacity so as not to step on the toes of the 3.4 model. The 2.7 in the 987.1 belongs to an earlier generation of engines (M97).
@@perverttWhy should I trust the words of a pervert?
Kidding!
Yes, understand they are two separate engine classes (987.1 2.7 vs. 981.1 2.9/2.7). Didn’t realize DFI was added to the later 2.7. Thanks for the info!
I like my silver 911… I almost got the forest green.
silvers are great but that green sure is amazing.
Its what I call Progression...
what about the GTs .1 and .2?
Ahh, good point! I do mention the GTs using a different strategy at around 6:20 in the video.
@@AtypicalDriver yes but what is the strategy behind GTs
Fun fact, the 991.1 3.4 engine was an all new engine while the 3.8 in the S was a carry over from the 997.2.
Do you know if the 3.4 is from the Boxster / Cayman? I think the MA1.21 was a 3.4L in the Boxster S from 2009-2012 maybe?
All I know is always wait for xx.2!!!
So you like to be the guinea pig for the new engines! Thank you for your service.
@@AtypicalDriver who said I could actually afford it new. So I don’t have this issue.
Toyota Prados use this engineering strategy
I know I’m in the minority on this, but as far as liquid cooled 911s goe the 991.1 is my favorite design. Just for the standard cars, not turbo, or GT or special edition. I think they’ve aged very gracefully
I'm biased as a 991.1 owner but I totally agree. The design has held up really well and I like the front end better than the bumper on the .2. It's simple and elegant still.
@@AtypicalDriver totally agree. As far as the turbo and GT cars I actually think this generation is the weakest as far as styling goes, and of course there’s the .1 GT3 engine fiasco too
In other words, product lifecycle extension tactics
Awesome cideo
Thank you!🙏
I got a 991.1 Turbo S. I love it but is it worth selling and buying a .2 because of the facelift? How about reliability?
Get rid of old problem - IMS.
Introduce new problem - cylinder scoring.
LOL!
.2 are usually more reliable as .1 problems are corrected or re-engineered. They are also slightly more powerful, and introduce new tech (pdk with 997, turbo with 991, hybrid with 992)…and the options list gets even longer😢.
Oh that's surprising I would think the .2 is actually less reliable (in terms of engine) since it's a newly introduced engine. Like 991.2 vs 992.1 both use the 3.0 turbo engine .
It just means post facelift and after facelift.
Actually it means new engines. The facelift is just a minor change.
tik-tok release similar to Intel
Yes and here's me with a 997 turbo (atlas grey) not dot 1 or dot 2, but a dot 1.5 2010 car with a mezger engine.
Oh man, you're so unlucky to have a .1.5 997 Turbo! I wouldn't want to be you.
More than risk management. This way, your products are kept fresh and interesting and get regular exposure in the press/internet over the life cycle. It is not just new engines. PDK was brought in as a mid-cycle upgrade in the 987 and 997 models.
My 991.1 GTS was a 3.8 litre. I'm sure all the 991.1 Carreras were 3.8?
The non S Carreras were 3.4
Yeah I screwed this up in the video and didn't catch it in time...the 991.1 S models were 3.8 and the base models were 3.4.
Wow, it looks just a 1977!
😂
.1 was released because .2 just wasn’t ready
Well… “a couple of years later” doesn’t apply to the 992, since it’s been released in 2019 and the 992.2 is expected for the end of 2024 or 2025, 5-6 years later. Hybridization is coming.
Yeah I wonder why they've waited so long on the 992? I guess the hybrid as you mentioned??
"a couple of ...." is an expression in the english language. It almost never actually means "2", but instead means "a few". So in this case it would mean "a few years later"
For godsakes it's not 'dot', it's 'point'.
🤯
991.1 for me, NA sound is not replaceable!
Gt3...
I saw the GTS is going back to NA which is pretty cool.
@@AtypicalDriver that’s a nice move by Porsche, I didn’t hear about that! Maybe I should think of upgrading! I have to admit the 991 shape still looks better than the over accentuated 992 design and cartoonish font. Maybe it’ll grow on me in time, but the 991 stays so true to the 911 I imagined growing up.
@@capitalexotics I think the 991 has aged pretty well! I look at mine and think "wow how is this car 12 years old?!"
I agree, but a bit biased as I own a 991.1 LOL! Its been a great car to own and drive and very reliable too...
I love 991.2 best gen
I drove a 992.1 (as pointed out same engine as the 991.2) and the low end torque was impressive!!
Just finished some of your other videos. Great commentary on the brand and especially the ownership. Just drive the damned thing. Very well done.
Thank you! 🙏
996 and 997, 991 and 992…Porsche uses the same chassis for two generations
6:05 Unfortunately, I can't say the same about my 987 Boxster when it comes to 'Engineering and Quality', which obviously did not adhere to the .1 .2 philosophy. I bought it new when it was just released. After 40,000 kilometers, the engine crashed internally due to the infamous IMS issue, which even some 911s experienced. This was due to poor engineering from Porsche. Because my car was just out of the default warranty period, Porsche did nothing to address the issue. A bricked car, very disappointing.
Aww man that's terrible, sorry to hear. I think the 996.2 and the 997.1 also have that issue which share an engine as described in the video.
@@AtypicalDriver Thank you for your kind words. Nevertheless, I really appreciate your video. Thanks for the upload.
No it had nothing to do with engineering. It had to do with a bad batch of bearings from a supplier. It happens to every manufacturer of something as complex as a modern car.
That shouldn't matter to the customers. It is still Porsche's responsibility to check the quality of their suppliers and maintain their promised quality. That's the reason they have been sued by their customers and had to settle. You can search for 'A settlement has been reached in the class action lawsuit against Porsche IMS bearing issues by those affected with engine failures.' Unfortunately, the failure of my vehicle's engine just happened after the settlement. @@williammorris3334
Give me 1 premium brand that DOESN'T use facelifts...
this couldve been 3-4 mins long
I think Porsche learned this from Toyota.
i.e., they walk, and not hop.
you frinking out ? wait until you track Tesla updates during the lifetime of its cars. the model 3 had at least 20 majors updates in less than 7 years. battery, chassis, motors, etc... crazy ? it's because they wok in AGILE mode in a continuous integration continuous development
🤯
A bit of a far-fetched theory.
First of all, every car manufacturer does it - facelifting.
Secondly, in the current generation, the facelifted model, i.e. 992.2 in the basic and S versions, will probably have the same engine as now (3.0 turbo), only with slightly more power.
The point wasn't the facelifting. It was the staggered release of new chassis vs new engine.
Meanwhile the last 4 generations of Golf GTI from the MK5 is using the same engine and only 2 different chassis
Absolutely wrong
Porsche meatrider discovers the concept of the mid-cycle refresh:
This WAS the development strategy of the past. Porsche’s current and future strategy is a blend of woke corporate management and EU bureaucrat climate insanity. They now hate consumers that want ICE cars and plan to force EVs down their throats. Sure, they still make 911s - but in greatly reduced numbers such that the business model is akin to Rolex watches - where dealers don’t have new stock on hand to meet market demand. Instead, the limited quantity of 911s are sold off to speculators that have bribed their way into an allotment- typically by buying a number of EVs that no one wants. Then, the speculators thrash the cars for a few hundred miles of endless launch controlled burn-outs and donuts for TH-cam content. After which, they sell the cars to another speculator, TH-cam auto influencer, - OR - BACK TO THE DEALER! This is why when you go to try and buy a new 911 at a dealer you don’t find any new cars - instead- you see a bunch of used inventory with a few hundred miles on them - after being abused as described above. And, because the Porsche EVs are sitting on the dealers new car lot rotting from lack of demand, Porsche has also jacked up the pricing for 911s - gouging ICE customer to compensate for EV revenue and profit losses. The whole deal is sad and is completely unnecessary. I went from a 40 year loyal customer to a “Porsche is dead to me advocate for other brands…”
Holden did it first
Brah, it's a facelift, every manufacturer does it.
Did you watch the video? Actually .2 the facelift is the minor part, the .2 always gets a new engine.
@@AtypicalDriver There is no set formula to what a facelift is, every manufacturer goes about it in a different way. But at the end of the day manufacturers use facelifts as a less risky way to introduce new technology or fix old technology.
- GR Yaris has a new interior and bumpers
- BMW sometimes adds new engine derivatives.
- Mercedes modernizes their exterior and interior tech.
- Audi uses new light technology and infotainment system.
- Hyundai added a new 8 speed auto to their N cars.
They are all facelifts.
The whole point of the video was to highlight the fact that the engines get changed for facelifts instead of new generations like most cars.
@@ld9387 you understood what's happening! 🙏
it has nothing to do with risk management, they use this method to give some excuse to hike list prices anything from 10 to 20 %, so to artificially inflate the used market prices., But now Porsche 911, which is a simple sports car comparable to a ludicrous overpriced corvette, pricing is into supercar territory and prices will crash any moment.
Dude, its just a facelift. EVERY manufacturer does this lmao
But it's also a new engine architecture in the .2 models.
@@AtypicalDriver Most facelifts bring new engines. See BMW etc.
The quality of the video made me think you have 300k subs, but you waffled around a lot. so many words without any real meaning, try to refine your script to not say the same thing over and over and don't use useless sentences. Waters the quality of the video down by a lot. Sometimes i was just sitting there thinking: What is this about now? What is he saying? Where are we? Basically the whole video could have been summed up in one sentence. I know you don't need to do that, but use clarifying sentences summarizing, and then go on in detail. You lose me when you start with detail, but until the very end fail to make clear that .1 and .2 are so not the entire car is new, nut the engine or the design. And with the gt3 i did not catch the difference at all. Try to view the video also from the perspective of a car enthusiast but not porsche expert, because that is what is needed to understand this video fully.
It is not a bad video, but you get carried away and don't take me with you, leaving me lost in confusing model numbers.
When my wife watched it she said "wtf are you talking about in this?!" LOL
You said the same thing over and over again for 8 minutes.
I like to yap, as my kids tell me.
Ho hum, boring! the same ugly design for decades.
They all looks the same...always
991 looks far better than 992. 991 is best looking 911 after the 993. Great content.
I like of the versions of the 911, and they all seem to age well, in 10 years the 992 will look old school but I not a big fan of the TFT screen, I like the 5 analog gauges.
@@daviddee7103 996 looks like garbage, 996 and 997 interiors look like Fisher-Price.