This Engine has Oil Pressure BEFORE it cranks! Should you prime an engine oil system?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 ต.ค. 2022
- In this video we are using a new tool to get engine oil pressure before the engine even cranks for the first time. Discussing why you would to do this, why the engine failed and a Destruction Of The Week. @AdeptApe on Venmo or AdeptApe@yahoo.com on PayPal for donations, thank you so much for supporting the channel!
Here is the Amazon Affiliate link for the oil priming tool:
Allstar Oil Pressure Priming Tank: amzn.to/3L5pASm
If the Allstar is out of stock try the one below:
Oil Pressure Priming Tank: amzn.to/3YuBrNr - ยานยนต์และพาหนะ
Being fortunate enough to have you as the one to rebuild an engine is equivalent to being treated by the top doctor
Just this week I installed a freshly rebuilt Cummins complete Recon engine in a bus. With the expense involved it was obviously a priority to ensure good initial lube and fuel supply on startup. It had been dyno tested so I knew it had already been run. I decided to crank the engine over with the ECM disconnected to pull fuel through the filters before hooking up the fuel lines. Plus the oil galleries were full before actually starting the engine.... boy did that make things easier. Thanks for all you for us viewers in TH-cam land.
Priming oil pressure before the very first start after a full rebuild is a good idea if you have the right tools. If you don't have the tools, just make sure all the bearings and cylinder sleeves are well lubed before you put everything back together, and definitely fill up the oil filter.
That's one of those "why didn't I think of that"tools. I'm retired now but would have loved one in the day. I thought it was a neat idea when Cat started putting prelube on off-road equipment.
very pleased to see you marked all top end ensuring the install and torque spot so easy tell if one comes loose. quality work.
I've primed them from the air compressor feed for many years. Recently I started priming in the bottom of the filter base, so it goes through the filter first. Cheers.
Great video!!! When I worked in a Cummins shop the "oil pig" was standard policy and was preformed prior to installing the oil pan. All rod journals, main and upper rockers had to have oil or else disassembled to figure out why not.
There was an era when a logging company lost several cam shafts on initial start up after trucks had sat thru the winter. Something about oil squeezed out of cam bearing while being under valve spring pressure. I agree with you whole hardheartedly that oil pig would be a wise investment for equipment that has sit for any period of time.
Was hired one time to start a 3406 that sat under a tree for many years. When I got to it the engine was seized from all the guys from the bar trying to start it with out priming the oil and being not smart enough to prime fuel system hence several batteries drained turning a dry crankshaft. Interesting the tree it sat under was in national news as this was where the Zogg Mine Fire burnt and PG&E just got a $155M fine this week. Just trivia.
If I remember the "Federal Mougel" oil pig in the Cummins shop used straight shop air pressure, had a ball valve, so when you heard the air sputtering you knew process completed.
So I’m two trips away from cert as a master mechanic… on small gas engines.
I read that thread twice. And I still only understood that the fucker wouldn’t start, rednecks and mismanagement had a play then the whole thing burned down. That about correct?
Yep I remember them to and used it while working at Odessa shop
Which trucks/engines had the sitting cam issue?
Very awesome Josh. Great addition to tool chest. Destruction was epic. Very amazing cheers man🔧🔧🍻
I like the pre lube set up. I may have to get one. I bought macs version of the cooling system vacuum on your recommendation and it works fantastic. Thank you for another great video!
Thanks for your excellent review. Definitely a great tool for a serious engine shop builder both diesel and gas engines. I learn a lot watching experts like you. Thank you. I won’t ever instal another oil filter without running a rag over the threads after another TH-cam creator showed how often metal shavings are left over at filter production. The simple rag method catches any shavings or burs left during threading process
These prelube tanks are real handy before initial startup. I've had an air brake tank with filter and air regulator set up for years. It has also been handy looking for internal leaks (pressure tube O-ring in a K50 and worn bearings in an 8V71 for example). A must have diagnostic and service tool...
I don't have a diesel , just enjoy watching videos that very well done. This technique reminds me of the pre-oiler that my dad installed on his 454 gas powered motor home
25 years ago . I don't know whether it saved any wear during that first start after sitting for months at a time, but it gave him some Pease of mind .
You can bet it helped a lot.
That's a neat tool, always thought of pre-lube with an electric pump or air/oil system like this and years ago (more than 20) I had a need to remotely put oil in a diesel and watch the the crank (oil pan was removed). I didn't have an electric pump or air tank like this so I used an agricultural hydraulic cylinder, I think it was a 4 in x 8 inch stroke. Oil on one side of the piston and air to the other. The rod would move in or out depending on which side the oil was on, the piston separated the oil from air like the piston or diaphragm in an hydraulic accumulator. I have actually made a low pressure hydraulic accumulator from one of these type cylinders by using a maxi-brake spring externally mounted around the cylinder rod since these type cylinders are very common and inexpensive. I think i will have to buy one of these air/oil tanks being aluminum it is much lighter than the cylinder.
I think this is a cool device. It will be very handy for engines that weren’t started for a long time or for oil changes. It will greatly reduce engine wear.
Love your videos. Very educational
Larger displacement CAT engines such as 3516 and 3600 will typically have an air/gas operated pre-lube pump that operates before every start. Typically worked into an instrumentation configuration that will require the pre-lube cycle to be completed before the starter will engage.
Yeah the 3516 gensets we had used an electric pre lube pump. They wouldn’t crank unless the pre lube pump got a few psi.
This is exactly how a lot of old piston engine airplanes worked way back in the day, pre lube pumps before the starter would engage
Definitely agree with PrePriming the oil gallery. the most destructive moments of an engine's life is the first few seconds until the oil pump gets pressure into all the bearings.
I run an engineroom with bigger KTA-38s, spec on an engine sitting more than a 5 days is an ignition off crank to prime the lube oil system as it doesn't have a dedicated LO primer pump. Personally I'm a fan for mechanical reasons but it also has air starters which is fun to stand on for a 15 second blast and traumatize our charter personnel.
Always pre-lubed any engine I've ever built. I converted an air bubble (storage tank), that I currently use that looks a lot like what you're using, minus the shiny appearance. I remember in high school shop class having to manually turn the oil pump shaft on a 350 chevy with a speed handle to pre lube the engine before installing the distributor. Arm got pretty tired before oil was sighted at the rocker arms. Thank you for another great video.
The days before drills were invented?
Yup, same here. I removed the distributor and spun the oil pump for what seemed like hours before i saw some oil pressure. I've always wanted an electric pre-lube pump; should be standard equipment on all engines.
Hey Josh, great video as always. I’m a heavy duty mechanic working in mining in NZ. The C27 and C32 engines in our haul trucks have a pre lube motor that runs for a few seconds before start up which builds engine oil pressure before it runs. These are factory fitted by CAT from new. Basically a starter motor that drives a small gear pump.
What mine are ya at? On the coast or southland?
I always wondered why this kind of thing wasn't more common. It seems such an inexpensive trinket that would save a huge amount of wear your typical engine experiences.
@@FerralVideo it’s not in there best interests. They need you coming back. With the super expensive equipment they put them on since your spending millions on there stuff. That little extra prelude pump could be the difference on a sale or not.
So a modernisation of the donkey engine Cat used in the old dozers to both warm the main engine and raise oil pressure before starting?
The more things change the more they stay the same.....
Interesting.
Thanks for watching the video. The highly recommended tool in the video is on this Amazon Affiliate Link:
Allstar Oil Pressure Priming Tank: amzn.to/3L5pASm
If the Allstar is out of stock try the one below:
Oil Pressure Priming Tank: amzn.to/3YuBrNr
“Little bit later in the day here.” Jump cut from liners out to the head on and turbo. Lol. You work damn fast, my friend!
Would love to see stickers of your seal of approval! Great toolbox bling!
Find those little bbs and wires coming from aftermarket head castings...... Have seen it a couple of times after a repeat head gasket failure with a "new" aftermarket head.
Hello sir, I have a problem with the 320d cutter excavator that stops running after 3 minutes more or less. I go to the manual fuel dispenser, I find it empty, then it works for two more minutes, the first less, then the excavator turns off, then I go to the manual, I find it completely empty and the same problem continues
Awesome thanks for sharing and I'm gonna have to get that tool. Always appreciate your knowledge 🙏🏽..
Prelubing is good!
Our engines (marine EMD's) all have external prelube pumps that draw oil from the pan and discharge into the main gallery. The manual states that it the engine is shut down for 72 hours or more to prelube, and we check for complete oiling the exact same way, at the rockers and cam bearings. (Love that tool, BTW...)
Another great video! Thank you Josh.
Josh, a lot of people sure do recommend you as a very good Diesel mechanic on youtube I see. Love your channel.
Whoever these people are, I thank them.
I like the self stick for the view much better in the beginning. Nice improvement
I made 1 out of a old hydraulic cylinder. I put a oil filter kit on it to keep it clean, also used a air pressure regulator.
I’m so happy to hear another experienced mechanic say he doesn’t recommend pre filling oil filters on a standard oil change. I’ve argued with so many mouth breathers over this subject it makes my head hurt. They might actually listen to you because you have a popular channel.
The Volvo truck dealer I worked at had an oil prelube pressure tank.We made it using an aluminum air tank.We did install an oil filter on the outlet side of the tank.Just for safety.
Trucks should have a prelube pump like large diesel locomotives. Could be useful in extreme cold starts.
I made one out of air tank for fuel priming another one for priming lube system. Have them for 15+ years and still working good.
There used to be a company that made an electric pre-lubing external oil pump for pressurizing the oil galleys on car engines before start up. Run it for a minute or so, then start the engine. It picked up the oil from the pan and pumped it in a galley hole. A really neat idea. It must have been about 30 years ago.
Love watching all your videos you are the greatest
I made something just like that from an old steel air tank. Welded up a two wheel cart with a ten foot hose. Had an inline fine mesh screen that could be cleaned. A little cubby for fittings. Worked great.
Thank you for this video Josh
I’m in the process of putting a C15 ACERT back together.
I’m gonna try this setup
I think you'd like it.
Almost mandatory to pre lube oil galieries after rebuild or after you have had the oil pump off on 3406, C15 and wind engine over after filter change to get oil pressure before starting. Will take out #1 big end from lack of lube, usualy starts knockin about half hour from the shop. 38 years ago when I first started we used to use a stainless soft drink syrup bottle as they were pressure rated and held about 10 liters of oil, we pre lubbed every rebuilt engine before startup.👍
We also have trucks that have been sitting a while, like over a year or so. So this tool is going to be handy
Love the sound of freshly rebuilt engine.
Great engine rebuild!! It definitely needed it!
I have to say I always fill any oil or hydraulic filters (as much as possible with horizontal filters) anytime I change the oil. Why not fill the new filter while the old oil is draining. Most filters have an anti drain back valve for a reason. This is to help avoid dry starting. When the filter is removed the oil that was being held up in the engine, drains out. With a dry filter and the oil passages empty you are going to have some starvation. The amount will depend on the size of the empty filter and how much oil it will take to fill the passageways before building pressure. Just my 2 cents.
Completely unnecessary.
Good showing on that tool, keep up the good work. May get one when I rebuild my old 1989 3406b cat motor,well have a good one see ya next time see ya bye.
What a find on Amazon! Years back I remember a test the engineering staff at BMW were testing synthetic oil. They were maintaining that the cold start of any engine was when the engines oil drained back into the oil pan so the engine was dry. Especially in winter when the oil thickens up. It was not the mileage of the engine that caused the engine to wear out. Unless you had a engine part break. But it was the cold start with the engines that were dry. I after seeing that I switched to synthetic oil. Pay a bunch more offer the lifting of the engine. My newer cars had electronic ignition so they would start fast. My mechanic put a switch on the dash so I could turn the engine over without it starting up so I could build oil pressure. But this tank you found is brilliant!
It's great, unfortunately they seemed to stop production on this exact model. If you click the link in the video description there is a very similar one on Amazon still.
I have the exact same tank, works great!
Interesting an educational video thanks for sharing !
I work at a diesel shop in NZ and all our rebuilt engines get the pressure pot put on them ours was built locally and also has a spin on filter on it . Especially useful on ford ranger and some others that don’t like picking up oil on initial startup.
A friend of mine when I was young(,50 years ago) was an excellent Chevy V8 guru. His engines were perfect. He had a setup where(if I'm remembering it right) he had a dummy distributor shaft with no cam drive gear on it and he would insert that in the engine and spin it with a drill and get full oil pressure for several minutes to be sure everything got fully lubricated before start up. He would then pull the dummy shaft and reinstall the real distributor and start the engine for the first time.
Nice video!
Detroit Diesel has a similar OEM tool with a hand pump for their DD series.
Oil field Allison V-12 engines we ran on trailer mounted pumping units had oil priming pumps we team before EACH cold start. Also had oil tested regularly.
Great video...
I encourage you to go a few steps further and run filtermags on the spinon oil filter and a bypass oil filter system to additionally clean the oil while driving down to about 1-2 microns...
I use this stuff on my 07 5 ram 3500 Cummins with 970.000 miles with engine never opened up along with OEM injectors...
Be Blessed 🙏
I made one of those oil priming tools for priming the porsche motor i rebuilt. The prebuilt one was around $450 and it looked similar to a small propane tank. So i took a propane tank and some steel pipe fittings to make my own.
Would be kinda cool if there was some way for engine manufactures to build a system that gets oil flowing without the engine running for normal use. Especially for cold winter startups. Tool works awesome though I am probably going to pick one up!
I think ambulances and fire trucks are equipped with pre-lube pumps which come on with the dome light, so there's oil flowing before they crank it over.
see thats something that would benefit everyone to have
I have been using a similar type tank for years to refill the rear ends in my midget and sprint cars after we change gears, easier to fit in the pit cart than a big jug.
I guess the question is: " Why would you not want to pre-lube an engine. I can tell you that race cars are pre-lubed every time before they are started. Why would you not want oil in an engine before you start it. Inquiring minds want to know. Keep the good stuff coming Josh.
You know what your doing that's for sure thanks again for the video
I find it somewhat interesting that you take such pains to fill the filter from the "dirty" side to avoid introducing contaminants, but have no worries filling this tank without a screen in the funnel. I'd think if you're careful while filling the filter in either hole, as long as the wind isn't kicking up a ton of sand in the air, you'd be totally fine. In my situation, all my filters have an anti-drainback device/seal, so pre-filling is only practical in the middle and I haven't let anything get in there but oil.
I love the crack when a c15 fires off, such a great motor 👌
3208/throwaway zealot here, Bluebird Wanderlodge applications only. Cat manual specifically recommends pressure fill on fresh overhaul examples, @ the air compressor lube port, curb side rear cylinder head. Just saying. I use a repurposed bulk fill tank, liberated from a Wanderlodge, holds 5 gallons. Good post, simple procedure that is frequently over looked.
That's just a manual charge pre-luber like we use in race cars, especially our historic race cars. Those also have an internal pressure bladder that you charge before engine is running, then you shut the valve. With the engine running you open the valve and let the engine oil flow in, close the valve behind it. Next time you go to cold start you release the pressure and lube the motor. Start it up, let it run enough to get some oil pressure against the air bladder and close the valve. Rinse and repeat. You just have to be careful with your oil levels.
I had something similar on my drag car. Called an Accusump by Canton racing. When you hit the ignition it would prime the engine like you just did and then when you started and the oil pump took over it refilled and pressurized. If you lost oil pressure going down the track the solenoid released and flooded the oiling system from the tank giving you time to shut down before the engine ate itself.
The IH dealership i worked at had a pre lubercater maybe a little larger 50 years ago it worked great we would use after engine over haul’s
I remember, maybe 35, 40, years ago, an oil pre-lube set up for gasoline powered cars.
The "inventor" made the claim that the engine would never wear because it was "dry" starting a cold engine that caused the damage.
Why would you NOT want to have pressurized oil system before starting an engine?
Awesome! 👍 did anybody mention the double shocks & air bags on the front!? That's incredible! bet that rides pretty Good! I've used Road King shocks before & they were top notch (no longer available) plus an added adjustable air bag on the steer axle - (Donvel)
I've seen aftermarket kits with accumulators and solenoid valves. (Performance car)
While running you have the solenoid valve open so the accumulator can fill. Then you turn it off and the valve closes. Next time you turn it on the solenoid valve opens and dumps its pressure into the oil gallery. Once running the accumulator fills again
Thank you for sharing that knowledge.
Very nice bit of kit. I like the idea of prelube before cranking. Of those who may donate negative input about the idea, I would give the call to the person/people responsible for the condition of the equipment. Those who complain may do so verbally into their personal mail box.
Love the bloopers at the end 🤣👍
I love the Wren and Stimpy clips 🤣
I would really like to see a side by side test, project farm style, where you do all of this work to prelube a rebuild and another engine where it's just assembly grease on the rods and mains. Then run the engine for say 2 hours each and pull the oil pan and compare the bearings
Me too, just need someone to fund it. Maybe this Allstar oil tank company would like too 😎
How much it is going to cost to Josh lol project farm started with lawn mower engine
I built one years ago. Sometimes I fill it with diesel and use it on fuel system to check things out . Found a leaking sealing ball on a detroit 60 series injector one time. Nice to not haveing to run the engine
braze shrader valve in fire extinguisher and use upsidedown that's what I've been using,
there a brillant idea air over oil
Oil pickup tube and pump are just a burp after all the other parts have had a good meal. Don't worry about those things.
Thanks to you sir 🙏
Great timing, I just put together a Series 60 and bought the Jegs version from Amazon. I really didn’t get any oil up to the rocker shafts though. I’m guessing not enough volume on the small line plus with 6 piston cooler nozzles open there’s just not enough flow to reach the top. Your thoughts???
That cavitation damage looks a lot like what I see lately when a low rad gets topped off with tap water. I have no idea the chemistry or physics behind it, but something about our nasty ass nasty tap water mixed with newer coolants react with different metals to make some nasty compounds that eat up everything it touches like battery acid. And with distilled water now in short supply I suspect we're going to see more of this in the future. It's getting kinda ridiculous
Reverse osmosis water is almost as pure as distilled, and available in any grocery store. I use it in my off-grid lead-acid battery bank with the blessing of the battery manufacturer. And for only $300 I installed my own under-the-sink RO system in the kitchen.
the Seal of Awsomeness . . Nice
Thanks broski
KNOWLEDGEABLE Adept Ape
Thanks 👍 for sharing it
Take care and have a great Weekend with all your family around you
KNOWLEDGEABLE Adept Ape
From Nick Ayivor from London England UK 🇬🇧
Questions time why I never see you use
Oscilloscope to Diagnostics vehicles
Thank you
Thank you Nick. I haven't used one in a long time.
I've operated mining equipment that has a prelube system on it the starter motor has a gear pump built into it and when you start the engine the starter doesn't engage the bendix gear until the engine has oil pressure
Beard's looking good my dude
With a new pickup truck hitting the $80,000 range, I would install an automated pressurization system on any new purchase. Easy to setup a tank that charges up with oil pressure through a orifice and check valve. Then a solenoid to dump the oil pressure prior to starting. high-falluting Long haul trucks aren’t the only machines on the road that can use this trick!
Pretty cool tool. Needs more capacity I think. 5 gallons would be ideal. I'm finishing up the 1st of 2 3508s I am rebuilding, neither of them have prelube pumps.
Pittsburgh power used to sell a oil pump powered by a starter that would pressure oil into the engine before starting.
In winter, even hooking the pan/crankcase heater, it was difficult starting. I installed an electric pump to keep the coolant flowing and the motor itself seemed to warm the coolant enough and redistribute the heat enough the truck had no problem starting like it was the middle of summer. However I always was wondering if that allowed the warm oil to drip back down some. This device might be the answer
Yes on a fresh rebuild to purge any particulate from bearing surfaces and to have live there for first start
Watching this vid made me realize my bxs doesn’t have much blow by at all but when I’m driving at a steady speed during night time I can see constant smoke coming out the exhaust
any ideas to check for or what the problem I might have ???
Thanks 🙏🏽
I have 402317.0 miles on my 2019 MP7 engine do you recommend getting the valves adjusted before I hit the 500000 miles mark, no issues so far just wanted your opinion. Thank you love the information you put out
Hey , these is a amazing tool... Josh... it's posible to talk about a special caterpillar engine c.3.3 b ... because it's a bad engine.. or what do you think about engine... huges from colombia
I have a Melling pre-lube tank for LS Chevy engines. These are great but you should manual rotate the engine to lube all the lifters.
That engine don't have lifters bud
That Cat Oil Jug looks like a Mobil Delvac Jug Lol .
So weird huh 🤫, no idea why that could be.
Bug sprinkler from tractor supply $10-20 make same effects. I prime ls3 engine. Work great
Are they metal too?
I love this idea. I would like to install a preluber hat builds oil pressure before every start and runs to cool the turbo after shutdown. What are your thoughts on that?
There is a "turbo timer" out there that does exactly that and you can set it to run up to 5 minutes after shut down. A buddy put one on his Volvo turbo.
I agree with Josh on the priming issue. Heating up the oil is also a good idea.
I have a 3126 that sits for a month or two between uses. Trying to figure out how to fit a prelube system.
Friend of mine dropped a nut in his engine, same thing happened. Worst part was it was a fresh build and he new he was missing a nut, he found out where it was on first start up
Beginning to test negative for patience for this sort of outcome.
All this effort, then drop something in a blind hole and shrug your shoulders? Pffft, for some, $40 000 is easy come, easy go.
It would be easy to make one from a fire extinguisher if you limit the pressure used?
Didn't you do a video on not prefilled oil filters? CAT manual specific..
Does your shop happen to use an Alemite dispensing system?
I used a air tank 30 years ago to pressure up 855 Cummins and 71 DD
Works and rebuild never had a problem
I made one out of one of the old water type fire extinguishers
That would definitely work. Could use an old air tank too, although this one is already setup for you.
@@AdeptApe very true, but I enjoy making tools and thumbing my nose at the company's that make the fancy tools for less. And especially if I can tick off a snap on dealer 🤣
Hi Joshua, What do you think of doing a mini inframe at 5 or 6 hundred k miles as preventative, planned maintenance?
Pull the head, drop the oil pan, crank, and pistons. Mic & hone each can, install new rings & bearings, double check head is flat & re-install everything.
That’s a lot of work and only costs you money, if you’re going to do what you’re suggesting you may as well inframe your engine for nothing. If you need more than a bearing roll at 600K you’re using your Diesel engine improperly. I’ve had engines go 1.5 mil without any real service other than replacing one injector and a doing a bearing roll.
Yikes, that nut into the turbo...I'm learning how to adjust overhead sets and I did one yesterday and a big fat rag went right over the turbo inlet before I did anything else. The paranoia is real.
Neat tool. I suppose a 12v transfer pump would achieve similar results, but the portability of that little tank is pretty great so long as u got shop air.
I don't remember who produced the starter but it had an oil pump built on and plumed to motor to prelube the engin