HOW TO belay with NEOX® ft Michaela Kiersch & Alexander Megos
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 3 มิ.ย. 2024
- The NEOX® is an assisted blocking belay device for the gym and the crag. Ideal for belaying a lead climber, the integrated wheel allows you to smoothly and quickly pay out slack. The ergonomic handle provides comfortable descent control and it can be used with single ropes from 8.5 to 11mm.
Here are Alex Megos and Michaela Kiersch to explain how the NEOX® works and share some tips for best use. While the NEOX may look like the GRIGRI, its internal mechanism is different, and therefore it functions differently. But of course, at least one thing remains the same: always hold the brake side of the rope!
Take your belay game to the next level with the NEOX®.
••• Featuring •••
Michaela Kiersch - Instagram (@michaelakiersch)
Alexander Megos - Instagram (@alexandermegos)
••• Credits •••
Directed by Morgan Jouquand
. ••• Copyright •••
Copyright Petzl Distribution 2024 - All rights reserved
#Belaying #Belaydevice #Climbing #Sport Climbing - กีฬา
Nice Petzl! Passive aggressive educational video for Adam Ondra to HOLD THE DAMN BREAK LINE!!! 🙏😄
Anyone who tries to defend not holding the break side in any kind of circumstance while someone is on the wall you shouldn’t be allowed to rock climb. Ever. Don’t be lazy, protect your friends life.
@@ChristianBehlen-fz4uz the definition of assisted is "help" not "save"
@@ChristianBehlen-fz4uz I'm not aware of any assisted-braking belay device currently available that *has* a true "dead-man" function (aside from "you're dead if you do it wrong").
@@nikolaihedler8883 the wild country revo locks depending on rope speed (4m/s) what you will get after around 0,5m falling.
Grigri, jul, revo, pilot, clickup… all have true dead-man function. Yes, none of them is 100% but as alex megos is a human - i belive - even his break hand is not 100%
So my understanding of these devices - however you call them - is the idea of statistics… two times 99% is 99,99%
And as I understand the principal of Neox it is not much better than atc, munter etc here :(
Yes but it could heppen, what if the belayer is hit by a rock or accidentaly his hand slips? The grigri will block the fall (i now that there is a possibility that it could not break the fall and blabla but it is very unlikely)
So from what i'm seeing in this video, what is the advantage of using this and not a normal grigri (that also could stop the fall)?
They had too much fun making this video, and I love it. 😄
Yes we had a lot of fun!
Heavy "please watch this video before takeoff" vibes. I like it.
I’ve seen so many belayers nit holding the rope. I’m glad you put so much emphasis on it in this video. Still, looking at all these belayers not holding brake end of the rope it looks like that is not enough when it comes to grigri manual/packaging.
Like Adam Ondra aha, I remember some videos of him when belaying where he doesn’t hold the rope at all 😅
@@ChristianBehlen-fz4uz looks like the neox will catch a hands free fall just like the Grigri. But even if it works 99,999% of times, those odds are pretty bad
This bad habbit came from the fact that the grigri would block in like 99% of all cases even without a hand on the rope. But with the neox this must not happen bc there is almost no friction on a lot of ropes thus the blocking mechanism won't engage.
This makes the neox definitely a belay devices for advanced users, clearly not suitable for beginners.
I think this is a brilliant innovation. The grigri often requires the cam to be blocked in order to feed slack quickly. This is what started the bad habit of not holding onto the brake in the first place as many people found it easier to have one hand on the cam and the other on the climber's side. The fact people don't seem to get this is a bit concerning to me, as if they aren't aware that blocking the braking feature to feed slack is a potential failure mode. Good job petzl on fixing the inherent flaw with (most) assisted braking devices
You hold the rope on the brake side when you press the cam to feed. It’s in the user manual.
@@NickLopezzdevice misuse is going to happen. The more foolproof the better
@@benschuster9792 you say blocking the cam is wrong when it’s correct technique for the grigri 👍
@@NickLopezz it is the correct technique for the grigri yes. But the fact you have to do that is a flaw with the device that has led to accidents when combined with user error
I beg to disagree. While it is nice to have smoother payout of rope, pressing down with the thumb is pretty convenient with the Grigri and safe. My real issue with the Grigri is the fact that it locks so hard, requiring the belayer to jump for a soft catch. The real breakthrough for assisted devices was the Revo. Dynamic belay by the device with a backup in case the belayer messes up.
(I know, many people do not get this and view the Revo as a bidirectional Grigri. As which it is not good. But the real advantage is the feeling of an ATC with the safety of an assisted device)
I absolutely love the video. Keep up the great work Petzl!
nice one petzl!
I love the shame for hands free belayers 😂 Saw a guy digging through his pack while belaying in Spain once 😅
Reject modernity, embrace tradition: shoulder belay
What force is the belayer required to apply to the brake-side rope when using a Neox? I understand this force to be around 200 N with a Grigri.
When the lab guy says "the Neox has no brain", perfect thing to add would be Vsauce music and "Or does it?"
@PetzlSportVideos Interesting device. I assume you need less force applied to the break rope with the Neox than with a Reverso? And it does provide some dynamic catchin as opposed to the Gri-Gri?
bleibt es blockiert wenn man als belayer mit dem Gerät in die erste exe gezogen wird?
I love and use petzl for pretty much all my gear, but I have to admit that I prefer the wild country revo to all Petzl belay devices for single pitches
You should give NEOX a try 😀
Oof, lot of negativity on here.
Great job Petzl with video-had myself some good chuckles. Solid acting by Mikaela and Alex as well.
Great job also with the device! I haven’t touched it yet, but it seems to solve my main gripe with the gri gri: locking up too often during regular slack payouts. I find myself pressing down on the cam of the gri gri far more than makes me comfortable; hopefully this device fixes that.
@@ChristianBehlen-fz4uzcompletely different though isn’t it. ATCs are brilliant in some uses. Absolute chore for belaying a mate on a redpoint project though for example.
@@ChristianBehlen-fz4uz ATC / REVERSO and NEOX are really different.
"When I climb with a belayer I don't know I always watch what they are doing. If they let go of the break side of the rope, I won't let them belay me again. Never... Ever." Is one of the most German things I've heard, but in the best way
I would like petzl to come out and say what the whole assisted braking device category’s intended purpose actually is.
My understanding is that it is an attempt to solve for the inherent (albeit small ) risk of tube belay devices that require a specific rope angle to feed slack.
When the rope is at that angle the tube cannot brake. If a sudden fall occurs while the belayer is feeding slack there are several conditions where the belayer could loose control of the brake strand and cause an uncontrolled descent.
The concept of an assisted braking device is, as I understand it, to eliminate that small risk in the short period of time while the belayer is paying out rope.
The fact that a grigri (and probably the Neox, since it’s just a grigri with rotating cam) will usually catch a fall when a belayer releases the brake strand is nothing more than a happy accident, even a tube will do this sometimes under the right circumstances.
I was fooled… it has auto-break :D see shorts jbmountainskills… the link i cant post here, for whatever reason
Looks nice! Any idea of how robust the neox wheel is towards dust? Specifically thinking of the ball bearings collecting dust while belaying outside.
Cool addition but as one can feed slack already as quick as needed with a grigri (presuming one knows how to do this properly) I will prefer the probably more reliable blocking mechanism of the grigri.
If you walk around at any crag or gym you can tell that many people don’t know how to feed slack safely
The Neox makes the safest way (no disengaging of the device) the easiest way
the neox plus is good option with that wheel block for top rope
Why did they say its for lead belaying? What about toprope, belaying in a multipitch or from an anchor and can you also rappel with it?
If you look on the Petzl website... The NEOX can be used for top rope belaying, but performance will not be optimal. In top roping, especially when belaying beginners or climbers that need reassurance, you may want to “pre-block” the rope: take up more slack than necessary so....
I just bought a grigri+ for smoother lead belaying and now you launch this, you're torturing me petzl
Why would you get a Grigri+ vs. a regular Grigri for lead belaying?
Sorry 😅
@@raphaelbeinhauer9242if I’m. Lt mistsken, the gri gri plus has a different range for different size ropes.
Nice acting! Funny video, and yeah, always hold your rope! :-) Nevertheless, I'm a little puzzled about the usefulness of this new device. For quick slack and easy handling, there are "bucket" devices (for example, the Petzl Reverso). I'm not seeing any added features of this device compared to the Reverso, except that it is more expensive and cool :-) Additionally, there are some other semi-automatic, safer devices around. I won't product place here, but some of them are great and quite cheap (around 30 bucks). Also, some of these devices offer both benefits - quick slack and more safety in case the belayer is an idiot, doesn't pay attention, or something happens to them so they can't belay properly. Sometimes, more complex-looking devices don't provide more complex features.
Actually, and this is just my hypothesis, it is the complexity of the GriGri that causes some belayers to feel that the device will solve everything. I like the less complex semi-automatic alternatives also because even the less experienced belayer can often understand what needs to be done for the belay device to work properly, how exactly the semi-automatic feature works, and when it could fail. This UX thinking about the devices and solving the complexity of belay situations are, in my eyes, more important than just focusing on the perfection of one feature.
How is that any better than BD Pilot or the Mammut Smart?
It isn't, 3x the price, 3x the weight. Only real advantage is that the Neox doesn't wear your belaying carabiners.
Is there a anti panic lever like on the Grigri+?
No, the lowering mechanism is like in the default grigri, no panic function.
But i think the intended user group is not the beginner climber but more the advanced user, who needs faster slack management for hard routes
My question is how this compares to a Grigri+. I never had any real interest in the Greek plus until I was teaching my brother to lead belay the other day outside. He didnt realize how much more supple a lead rope is compared to an indoor toprope and I almost decked when he lowered me almost wide open. I had been thinking about switching to the plus, but now I also like the features this provides
Grigri Plus is the best device all around. Other devices like the Revo, and the Vergo have great advantages too, but are like this Neox device... not for beginners, imo.
@@Mdjagg for me personally the Grigri+ is the worst Grigri, but I work a lot with parentsjustt learning to belay their little kids. And when the climber is a 4 year old kid it's almost impossible to use the Grigri+ as intended, especially for beginners.
I guess that it's fine for heavier climbers, but I would never recommend the Grigri+ over the "normal" Grigri.
And in lead climbing I find it very hard to give slack due to the very small and smooth surface of the "hump" on the side, so you can't hook your index finger to the side of the device while holding the cam down with your thumb (while the rest of the hand is still in control of the break side of the rope, of course).
To each their own, but the stainless steel, the smoothness of the lowering (which got fixed on the standard GG3), and the lockout on lowering makes it the best, especially with new belayers.
I wonder how likely it is that the rope will slip when the break side is not held. For instance, should the belayer become incapacitated for some reason (I know people tested this with the gri gri, and it would pretty reliably still block), which is unlikely, but can still happen.
Yeah, that's a main selling point of Gri-Gri for me. I want it to stop the fall if my belayer gets hit in the head with a rock or something; if it does not provide that, it's not really that much better than ATC.
in that case, even the grigri is pretty unreliable.
@@marcushausch turns out the grigri is pretty reliable at catching even without a break hand, or at least reliable enough. So I'm trying to figure out how neox compares to that. Hopefully people will test this out in the future.
@@UnicycleSoul as already shown in the video, the neox likely will not block at all.
there is only one reliable dumb proof device out there, the revo
@@marcushausch watch Hard is Easy videos on YT, he tested many different scenarios on Gri and concluded, that while it's possible to have a ground fall on GriGri when you're not holding the brake rope (so you should always hold it), in most cases the Gri locks by itself.
I view it kinda like seatbelts in a car: I'm not expecting them to save my life in every possible scenario, I just want them to maximalize my chances of survival if something goes really wrong.
curious what other applications we will see this device performing in the wild. LRS systems?
:D LRS will become free solo with this device… no lol… it would introduce the most stupid category in climbing: suicide rope solo
We’ve seen other devices with similar inertia based catches, (think Revo) these devices are not designed for this but the community will also modify these devices despite manufacturer recommendations. I wouldn’t be surprised if we come across alternative uses for such a device
@BejcarSkater
Nah, Revo is not inertia based, it is rope speed based. Yes, inertia plays a role within the centrifugal principal, but is not dependent on inertia of the rope or something. Insted it will lock no matter how fast the acceleration will be at close to 4m/s (speed).
On the other hand ropes inertia plays a big role in most other assisted breaking devices (grigri, smart, jul, pilot). Inertia of the rope helps to engage the mechanism… therefore these devices are much more likely to auto-lock when the fall is far (high speed of climber in the moment of catch -> very high acceleration of rope within device)
:D but: in neox there is no such thing at all… if there is nothing holding the break side, it will slip forever - i think with quite low friction. But it feeds well ;)
What's the crag they're at?
Margalef?
It's in Margalef
Shouldve just put a large steel lip on the grigri2. I hate the grigri+ and i go through grigris in about 2 years from the rope cutting through the aluminum
I'm amazed at the amount of people not understanding how this device works and calling it the same as an atc
Same🤦
Yeah I guess the main difference is that it is an assisted braking belaye device, i.e. it is not dependent on how hard you hold the braking rope, like a tubular device would be.
-> it is much more like a grigri than an atc
@@ChristianBehlen-fz4uz devices like a click up or mega jul have a similarly unreliable deadman feature. Assisted braking is not about autolocking, the brands don't just say that for insurance, it just means the tension is held when the device is already loaded
Okay my bad, haven't watched the whole video yet! Sorry for the confusion.
NEOX is an assisted blocking belay device for the gym and the crag. It has an integrated wheel that allows you to smoothly and quickly pay out slack to the climber.
Belay device with cam-assisted blocking, optimized for lead climbing.
- Cam-assisted blocking for a more comfortable belay: when the climber falls or weights the system, the rope tightens, the wheel stops spinning, and the cam pivots to pinch and block the rope
Neox, despite rotating wheel, also locks from time to time during giving a quick slack on the rope. So it still requires skill of squeezing the cam, like a grigri.
IMO, main advantage of the Neox is saving your elbows, especially if climbing is your profession
Did you use the Neox? Does holding the cam down make it feel similar to a grigri in terms of friction for paying out slack?
Yes, I have used it. If you accidentally lock the cam during the belaying, you can unlock it the same way, as with the normal grigri (with thumb). Then again, giving a slack is smooth and easy, because the rope goes around „pulley”.
It feels very „sexy”, because rope goes very smooth. At the beginning I was using it as ATC. But once I accidentally lock it, while my friend was clipping, I switched to the normal „grigri routine”: giving a slack without disengaging the cam during the normal progress, and disengaging the cam while clipping.
Have you guys ever showed this video to Adam Ondra?
GriGri is the best.
The legend ! But if you have the occasion, you can give NEOX a try.
it is not yet the definitive belay device. it's the cross between grirgri and revo but it doesn't solve the problems of both. for the grigri the problem is safety while for the revo it is the possibility of intentionally lock it. as you can see in the video, with the neox, if you don't hold the rope it doesn't lock while the revo always keeps the rope adherent to the pulley thanks to springs and guarantees locking. Despite this difference they are both CE EN 15151-1, for me comparable only if you hold the brake side of the rope... It is right to emphasize the fact of always holding the brake side of the rope but there are situations where the belayer can be compromised and not be able to do so, the outdoors always holds unexpected risks. for example a helmet can prevent you to get injured but it doesn't guarantee that you will be able to keep the belay under control. Whoever invents a revo with the possibility of controlling the locking action will have created the definitive belay device!!!
Nerding apart i always love you petzl❤
Hate de pouvoir le tester
There will be accidents, so many people have already acquired bad braking habits with the Grigri. If they then switch to the Neox, it could be a problem.
For the more serious belayer a nice device, though i personally do not like the weight of grigri and comparable devices. There are other devices, doing a similar job while being much lighter.
I think that's exactly the reason Petzl is making these videos. But people who "learned" to do this shouldn't be climbing in the first place. The fact that no accidents happened for them was luck.
So officially we can start counting time to inspection recall or not yet?
Yes. Start counting. Btw, what a moronic video
Only for experienced climbers. Grigri is more universal and foolproof.
First two people to ever wear a helmet in Margalef.
Si what is the difference between gri gri and need? 😄
I don't think you even watched the video. There's literally a wheel in there... The wheel makes it easier to give slack quickly without you having to press down on the cam (this "turns off" the locking mechanism).
You should be able to move when belaying and use it to your advantage when it's available, but you should not rely on it. Not every belay will allow you to move freely
The whole idea why i got the Grigri is, that even if my belayer got ko'ed by a falling rock, the Grigri would still catch my fall.
it will MOST LIKELY catch your fall but it isn't guaranteed. you can check HowNotTo's video about it where he shows when and how the GriGri can fail if the brake strand isn't being held.
I agree, grigris work even when a distraction happens.
@@liamshub3483 Yep - and also watch, what Hard Is Easy published about this.
@@gatitoduraredundancy is the most important thing in climbing. If there’s even a small chance of failure then it’s not safe enough. That is why you must always hold the brake strand on a gri gri. Even if the chance of failure is as low as 1% would you risk your life on a 1 in 100 chance?
The grigri is also an assisted braking device. The grigri can also fail if you do not keep a hand on the brake strand.
This looks to have a big advantage over the grigri.
I think we need some official shaming for all the people who beer can grip Grigris to pay out slack too.
My concern is that if the belayer would get hit by a rock fall and pass out, then the climber would hit the deck… the older grigri would still stop.
I'm going to do some testing to find out what happens when you're not holding the break end
GriGri + for the win, and in the guide plate category the DMM Pivot is king.
Why is it called NEOX!!!?
To me this looks like belay tutorial video rather than belay device promotion. Why don't you tell us about the advantages of this new device? It has been fleetingly mentioned that Neox allows to feed the rope easier than Grigri, is that all?
?? What are you saying, there is literally an in-depth demonstration of the Neox doing its thing, with a view of the inside of the device to see what's really going on.
@@radio-silence9506 I’m saying that I want to know why should I buy Neox and not Grigri. I didn’t see that in the vid
Yes, feeding rope easier is the only advantage. And this would have been great without the disadvantage of not having a dead-man function anymore. But in conclusion I would ask why buying Neox and not ATC which has additional advantage of dynamic breaking due to controlled rope slip!?
@@johnmichaelhan6246 gotcha! That's fair. For me, this video does what it needs to. It shows the biggest advantage vs the Grigri which is feeding rope more smoothly. That's enough for me but maybe it isn't for you and that's alright
@@ChristianBehlen-fz4uz you allways talk about a "ATC" what is the term for the tubular device from Black Diamond "Air traffic controller". When you want to talk about The ATC-Pilot (with assisted braking), then use that term please.
You can easily pinch the cam of the grigri whilst simultaneously keeping your hand on the brake strand. Been doing it for 25 years. Very easy. You don't need $150 new device.
It's gonna auto feed for top and lead rope solo
@@MrHappy-oq7ot I only TR solo and rarely use the Gri for that
😂
So it looks like a grigri but works randomly?
I didn’t understand much the differences with the original grigri
The acting is horrible, but the product looks premium. I place on getting a Neox.
Climbers really make the absolute worst actors its brilliant.
Wow. Good thing they are climbers. Acting is not their strong point.
I'm the first 😂
Never, ever. Too funny.
Advantage over Gri Gri: it feeds slack more easily. Others?
Disadvantage: seems that it's less reliable in engaging to catch falls.
Advantage over ATC: ?
Disadvantage: Heavier, more expensive, no two-rope rappel
I think the advantage over an ATC is that the cam once engaged holds the climber without much effort while an ATC requires the belayer to do work to hold the climber.
The advantage over an ATC is that it's an assisted braking device with continous blocking. Same as the original Grigri.
It’s a good job they had a man there to do the climbing!
This sounds like an ATC with extra steps
so it doesn’t have noob-proof auto blocking mechanism. Why not just use an ATC then
The GriGri is not noob proof
I don't see the point of assisted breaking device that doesn't catch the fall without holding the rope. The whole point of the assisted breaking devices is IMHO that there is high chance (not 100% though) of it catching a fall on its own. For example if a rock falls on the belayer or something like this. I guess the advantage of this is that it's easier to hold a climber while he's resting and makes giving the slack easier. But does not really improve on safety, compared to Reverso and similar devices.
It's the same with the grigri. You shouldn't let go of the rope there either.
I think the point they're making is that the rope needs some tension to engage the locking mechanism. This is the same as the grigri, as seen in HardIsEasy's excellent video on situations when a grigri won't lock, where Petzl confirmed that rope tension is required to reliably engage the grigri's cam.
The point seems to be to feed more easily and make short roping less likely. I kinda get your point but also I think there’s room in the market for something like this and if what you want is something that is more likely to catch you get something else. Though honestly I don’t think anything is MEANT to reliably function as a belay device without a hand on the brake strand, or is there something?
@@sniperwales The issue is that because Grigri exist since so long, people tend to think it as reliable to brake everytime (and i know HardisEzasy video very well). What woulb be interesting is to know if Petzl would emphasis that much on holding the brake line if they were promoting Grigri again.
Here, it feels like a bit of a step back
Correct the point is that in a worst case it still will lock up and catch. @@stefans4562
Petzl trying to remove a bad habit they introduced many years ago lol
They did not introduce bad habit! This was introduced by ignorant climbers. But getting rid of this habit by introducing lower safety standards within their new device is quite questionable lol
@@ChristianBehlen-fz4uz agree! after 3 grigri generations sounds like is going to be hard to remove that bad habit, hope it doesn't bring accidents from people using the device wrong.
Reminds me of some airline safety briefing. Kinda cringe humor. 🥴
One step back.....
so that's a gri gri.
Not really. Many differences allows NEOX to pay out slack smoothly. More info => www.petzl.com/INT/en/Sport/Belay-Devices-And-Descenders/NEOX
I tak znajdzie się mistrzu piszący na smartfonie 😂
I will NOT buy that. Maybe in a few years if the lessons learned from others and the accidents statistics are good...
What’s the point? Less functionality? I would love to see the truth video, over the corporate blah blah blah…. Why even make a “new version” if it’s the exact same? Plus a little wheel? Also, loved Alex and Mikayla in this promo. Silly goofs ❤😊
Thanks for your comment. You should give NEOX a try and will feel the difference for sure.
What's up with the gender roles here, Petzl? Why is it always Alex climbing and Michaela belaying?
Who cares?
Everybody knows both of them can climb hard af
I needed a rest day
@@MichaelaKierschlol
What an absolutely bonkers take, holy jug
@@MichaelaKiersch A well-deserved rest day! 😀😀😀
Worst device ever planed, what's the difference with a Reverso? I will stay with grigri
I still dont understand what the whole fuss about this device, it is just an upgraded ATC, or another shape of ATC, that has many parts, increasing the risk of smth malfunctioning
Looks like Petzl is trying to sell helmets more than the NEOX.