Indeed, Vega was just the connecting airport to catch a main artery wormhole to distant locations. I should watch that movie again soon Excellent sci-fi from Carl Sagan
Thank you for keeping us informed about what is happening outside of our own little bubble. The absolutely brilliant Carl Sagan would be very proud of the information that you are putting out to us. Please, keep up the great work.
Vega's estimated to bee 455 million years old, rotates unusually fast at 16 hours rotation, is a variable star as well. Variability alone would make for shaky conditions for planetary formation, the rapid rotation suggestive of a potential merger some time back of a relatively massive object and that could've generated a flash sufficient to briefly disrupt planetary formation and generate that gap at 60 AU, where the radiation pressure finally became insufficient to further repel dust and allow the increased edge increase in density and hence, signal. And an ideal location for an eventual planet to potentially form. And the star is halfway through its lifetime now, due to its increased mass. Overall, an interesting star, due to age and rapid rotation! It's bound to get even more interesting when it exhausts its hydrogen and goes giant at a still rather high rotation rate.
@@montylc2001 Which would be super odd...cuz its like among the most 'dangerous' areas in the galaxy outside globular clusters (they themselves likely being former centers of dwarf galaxies). I'd think anybody but a Kardeshev 3 would try to avoid those areas. Even a K2 that has 10k star systems under their belt = ant colony compared to a galaxy-spanning K2 or K3: and that K2 would likely focus on "easiest systems to grind up for resources"...100k to 100mil stars in a dense ball = turbulence, high radiation, etc. They prob even avoid white dwarf/neutron/Type-O because of the harsh environments (Type-Os could also 'explode anytime' since they only live 1-10mil yrs...so not a star to park a 'solar system demolition/processing' fleet around. K2 civs would likely focus on F/G/K/M systems + rogue planets and remnant nebulae...ALL easy places to part a long term (10k to 100mil yrs) fleet around. Even Red Dwarf flare stars = not as dangerous as Type O or neutron stars.
Looks like its no good idea to watch the film prior to reading the book? But then again, if one knows the book, the films then show to be really poor. Always! Perhaps the movies are just meant to be an advertisement for the underlaying books. 🚀🏴☠️🎸
I've been watching a few years Anton. I have the wonderful person t-shirt. I just want to say thank you for all the videos and hard work. I love the music at the end of your videos. It makes me feel like I'm about to travel into the unknown ❤
Just a bit of trivia, but a quote from the book Contact here: "There's no way it could be Vega, Dr. Arroway. The system's only a few hundred million years old. Its planets are still in the process of forming. There isn't time for intelligent life to have developed there. It has to be some background star. Or galaxy." It wasn't just the movie that added that detail. I was just a kid at the time, but my memory and guess is that this trait of Vega's was a popular hypothesis by astronomers back then, likely attributed to a fuzzier estimate than we have now of the star's age.
Hey, Carl Sagan was an astronomer, and an excellent science communicator. Sure, Richard Feynman was a little earlier, but his work was general physics. Sagan gave us the stars, and he brought to life and beauty the entire cosmos. So, yeah, when he described Vega, I think he had some insider knowledge. :)
Vega isn't the home of the aliens in Contact. It's simply one of the transceiver points for detecting and communicating with newly radio-capable species.
The NASA site that hosts these images wrote the Vega is 450 million years old, not 700 million. It also mentions that the dust could be seeded from collisions between comets.
Man the human race under appreciates your channel ! . Your info and vibe and the flow of info is inspiring and totally awesome. I am not an AI bot or some other demon tech nonsense, so this is a real opinion. Plus smoking weed While watching your channel is really fascinating. Keep up the good work. I hope people are watching you channel on Mars one day.
The light from Jodie Foster's 1997 visit to Vega was observed on Earth in 2022, as a bright flash of a couple of good 90s movies followed by a quiet career.
The scene where Ellie runs to the cabinet to get Dad’s meds is one of the most exceptional in film. . My favorite part of the movie is when she is sitting on her car, hears the sound, up to the point when she responds, “Everybody.” I also love the, “Wholly owned subsidiary of Hadden industries.” Thank you, Carl.
My guess. Planets must precipitate. They need chunks to cause instabilities and turbulence. They need some seed material. Maybe Vega doesn't have chunks and was very uniform at its start and hasn't received any visitors to stir it up.
Lost planets. They may just be shy, and hiding on the other side of the accretion disc from us. Perhaps it is just a smoke screen! Anyway, I'll just go back to my room, now. Thanks, Anton, as always!
Our presumptions may be wrong due to too narrow of a scope, based on what we know. Obviously, there's a lot we don't know, and so maybe we should be careful about presuming too much. Interesting video, both for its scientific content as well as for its implication for our models of planet formation.
So...what I'm hearing is, full speed ahead to the publisher, get Netflix on the phone, and send some of those weird sodas to Neil DeGrasse Tyson. I think he likes the shimp flavored ones.
Maybe the activity of stars like this in the first ~billion years is a lot more variable than we think, where VEGA was significantly more active during its growth & prevented planets from forming, while the other star was much more stable and allowed planets to form? We have really good models for mass/temperature/luminosity of different types of stars in general but I feel like we have a lack of knowledge of how much star activity can change on shorter time scales & how that can influence the development of solar systems. Instead of similar mass/composition stars evolving in essentially identical patterns every time, its more like you're rolling the dice on its behavior until you get to long enough time scales when solar systems have stabilized.
My thoughts are it could be a combination of that, and not a lot of interaction between Vega and neighboring stars throughout its lifetime. A nearby passing star would create tidal disruptions in the disk, starting a chain reaction of objects crashing into each other. Vega could’ve been formed at the outskirts of its stellar nursery, and got out without much interaction or interference.
I always ran on the assumption a system like ours is harder than normal to find with our current methods. Not only a single star, but also no giants in close orbit to cause a sizable amount of wobble.
HD 186302, which is about 184 light years away in the constellation Pavo, has the same age, metallicity, chemical abundances and ratios of carbon isotopes as the Sun. It's not thought to come from the same stellar nursery as the Sun because of its galactic orbit. It's also not known if it has any planets. Detecting an Earth-like planet in an Earth-like orbit would be possible using transits, but the probability of the orientation of the system allowing that is only about 1 in 200.
I don't think that Carl Sagan got it "accidentally" right. Vega is a very young star, and standard planetesimal theory suggests that young stars would have large debris disks. Plus, there have been some photos showing possible disks, floating around on the net for years.
It is certainly intriguing that Vega appears to be devoid of planets, although this indicates there is still a lot we have to learn about the formation of planetary systems, but it could be that any planets are small and close in, covered by the chronograph used to image the disk.
"You're far too trusting. Dantooine is too remote to make an effective demonstration - but don't worry; we will deal with your rebel friends soon enough.".
Anton - I'm a huge fan and have been watching your vids for ages. But I really must suggest that you make it a bit more clear what is footage from the movie and what is not. Thanks, and keep up the great work, Wonderful Person!
Hi, Anton. Love your videos - very informative and well presented! I do have a question related to this one, however. Maybe I missed you saying it, but didn't scientists later determine that Fomalhaut b (Dagon) doesn't really exist and that what was seen in earlier observations was actually a debris cloud? Nerd that I am (and as part of my universe-building for my novels), I've been keeping a spreadsheet of data for thousands of stars systems, including columns for any exoplanets the NASA Exoplanet Archives says are confirmed. Dagon used to be on their list but was demoted several years ago, and it's my understanding that JWST recently confirmed it doesn't exist and that Fomalhaut only has debris disks. Which would mean that neither Fomalhaut or Vega have planets, at least not planets massive enough or large enough to be detected. Is this your understanding as well? Or did I miss Dagon being "rediscovered" at Fomalhaut, or is it still listed in other exoplanet catalogs? Thanks! Again, great video as always!
It might be possible that whatever the dust is made of has very little capability to generate a static charge. The other possibility is that there is actually a static charge capacity, but the material has such a high melting point that it does not allow anything to coalesce into larger masses by fusing together… It would be interesting to find out why…
Hmmm... would have thought the pressure from Vega that you mentioned would be the cause, preventing clumping and planet forming. Perhaps early on the pressue was high enough to prevent it, where other stars the pressure was under the threshold to prevent clumping.
10:24 statistically speaking yes Vega it’s exception to the rule as we can see there is planets everywhere, star without planets are likely very rare, even Vega some sign of you say in this video of some small planets away from the star.
A failed planetary system, Vega's too big and consumed most of the material and left scraps for maybe 1 small planet, lots of asteroids and even more comets. Or, even with higher mass, the lower specific gravity delays the formation of planets and we are seeing it in its infancy. Great topic, Anton ❤
Maybe it's a bit like supercooled water, it is ready to "phase change" and transform from disk to planets, but it lacks some vital catalyst or "grit" to start that transformation.
it sounds to me like Vega is a fresh canvas ready to form whatever can be formed from its resources around. this could be on heck of a find it this is the beginning to how the planets and moons begin to form. sadly nothing we will ever see in our lifetime but still a cool thought.
Weird. That image with the black circle at the center of the 'dust cloud' reminds me of the time when I was a kid. It was the middle of Winter, and my dad took me outside with my telescope. WE started looking due north when I stopped on a 'star' that looked just like that image. I couldn't understand why the center of it was a black circle like that. Maybe this is the explanation?
Could it be because of the star's fast rotation rate? The fast rotation could be pulling on the disk too hard preventing the particles from coalescing?
🤜⚡💥⚡🤛Your statement that Vega is twice as large is...wrong. For volumes [3D] the size difference varies as cube of the radius and for areas [2D] the size difference varies as square of the radius. As Vega's radius is 2.56X that of Terra, its volume is 13X and projected area is 5.5X that of Terra. ==== The fact that the system associated with the two stars are radically different which the Big Bang cosmology is unable to explain but Plasma Cosmology can is just another nail in it's coffin. Keep it coming. The old paradigm will eventually crumble. R.I.P. Big Dope. 🤜⚡💥⚡🤛
First off: he was referencing the radius/diameter which is perfectly fine, it's a measure our brains understand and compare better anyways, and secondly the fact that there are two stars with different systems doesn't prove the electric universe, it just means that we will investigate and solve it just like we have done with so, soooo many mysterious up to this point. This is how science works. You find a problem, make observations, make a hypothesis, then an experiment to prove or disprove your hypothesis(though instead of experiments, in astronomy it's different since experiments are generally not possible). I can almost certainly assure you that there will be a solution to this after at most a few months. I haven't researched the electric universe theory, so I'm curious as to how you explain this one.
@@Gregorythe5_5551st No, Anton said 'size' not 'R/D' which is a poor way to compare stellar objects as volume can relate directly to surface area and gravity, the two most important metrics to most people. In re the EU Theory reference, I stated" *_The fact that the system associated with the two stars are radically different from each other, which the Big Bang cosmology is unable to explain but Plasma Cosmology can is just another nail in it's coffin. Keep it coming. The old paradigm will eventually crumble. R.I.P. Big Dope._* 'Explain' does not mean 'prove' so you are off the mark. Are you as critical of the terminology the BigDung theorists use such as '...black holes ARE dense...', '...Universe IS expanding...', '...nothing can travel faster then light/EM waves...". None of the myriad of proclamations are factual including the ones in this video. Can/will I partake in this nomenclature for brevity? You betcha. Why the double standards/bias? [Rhetorical only] I used to write more detailed commentaries but it's but casting pearls.... so a waste of time. I'll send you my latest, albeit short comment to today's vid. Let me know you got this one and the follow up. YT is poor in messaging = wasting time...again
@@Gregorythe5_5551st U can *_NOT_* almost certainly assure me that there will be a solution to this after at most a few months. ...because experiments or close op observations in deep space are impossible to carry out. YOU said it too. All that the lamestream scientist-wanabees will do is utter a proclamation based on no credible evidence. ==== Comment to today's vid: 🤜⚡💥⚡🤛 _As always, Plasma Cosmology predicts and explains this phenomenon more eloquently and scientifically than the Big Bang theory does. The self organizing Birkeland currents/plasma filaments form and then impact virtually all stellar objects [there's more to it]. Binaries and higher order arrangements of objects are common mostly [other reasons exist] because the filaments typically attract [think - electric conductors including plasmas filaments in experiments]. Sometimes the energy levels fluctuate, causing the Birkeland currents to become chaotic resulting in behaviors such as multiple poles [think plasma ball decorative lights] which was the subject matter of Anton's past video. Sometimes the Birkeland currents form stars but if the energy is low or later drops to a low level, planet objects can also result [there is evidence Jupiter and Venus used to glow]. High energy flux can also expand the star, turning it from a high brightness star/object into a cooler giant or super-giant star, or can split the 'hot' star into two or more stars and/or other objects. These energy fluctuation form LC circuits that are seen by us as pulses/fluctuations [think radio and other emissions] and spin [think motors]. I predict that 'unexplainable high rates of spin' will be found, making scientists heads spin... anti-clockwise [hey I can get down in the dirt and say dumb stuff too... but only for sh!ts-&-giggles]._ 🤜⚡💥⚡🤛 _Anton, please don't say _'radio light'_ as there is no such phenomenon or terminology. The word 'light' is invariably reserved for the visible spectrum of the EM band and therefore radio frequencies and visible frequencies are separate phenomena._
@@Gregorythe5_5551st BTW, I'm a triple engineer and a prolific inventor, with penchant for law, psychology, history, bio-sciences, quantum physics, bio-sciences and other fields.. currently developing a 🤜⚡💥⚡🤛low cost, point-to-point, ultralight-category, personal mobility 'jet-pack' - the PersonalJet. 🤜⚡💥⚡🤛
What I find interesting about the possibility of there being no planets within the system of Vega is that it diminishes the reasoning at the root of the long held view of many astrophysicists that because of the innumerable stars in the universe it is unlikely that the earth is the only planet wear life exists. It may very well mean that many other stars are also alone.
I find the more astounding notion/theory is that there are at least 1:1 ratio of rogues to stars, with many saying its higher in the 20:1 (in favor of rogue planets)...
Not really, there is a maximum mass to a star to create a planetary system. The more massive you go, the rarer the stars are. It doesn't affect that idea much.
The biggest hole in the assumption that there must be life is the complete unknown of the odds of its forming. And sadly a lot of our assumptions have to do with the quirks of our culture. We used to assume that life originated by a randomly assembled replicator molecule, and calculated the extremely long odds of that happening. Various elements in our culture jumped on that to reinforce their own worldviews and amplified the idea of life being extraordinarily improbable. Then research led us to discount the need for such a large progenitor molecule and even of any progenitor molecule. But it is not specific enough to give us odds yet. It destroyed the previous assumption but left a complete unknown in its place. Until that unknown is further nailed down it doesn't matter how big the sample size is. And for many people the assumptions go way beyond life to something they can talk to and give them a ride. That introduces an unknown quantity of further unknowns.
Is there enough data available about Vega to reasonably determine what the typical material output, in terms of elemental composition and quantity, of the star should be and compare it to the composition of the cloud to try to determine possible characteristics of bodies around the star?
I wonder if stars can "micro" nova? Throwing off much more matter than a usual CME; but still surviving the occurrence? Also, can we distinguish the difference(s), far, far away, if so? -Amazed with it all...
Maybe the amount of energy coming out of the star is creating some kind of interference wave that is not allowing formation and keeps pulverizing and mixing up the stuff that would form a planet. I would say another thing I would like to see is a through spectrographic analyses to see if there is some kind of odd mix of matter that might be poor elements for setting the stage for planet formation.
"Maybe the amount of energy coming out of the star is creating some kind of interference wave that is not allowing formation and keeps pulverizing and mixing up the stuff that would form a planet" Entirely possible. Above a certain mass the star is throwing out too much UV light, which destroys the materials needed to make planets.
Anton can you make a video about how planets and stars are bending space,i understand that they are bending space i just don't understand in what particular line they are doing it,can you collide to space fabric if you are flying to it or you just go through it and last question are all the moons around planets are in the middle line around it or they can be anywhere around planets,thanks
Thanks for confirming that most of the astronomical facts from our scientific community are just assumptions. Ignoring magnetism and then ate shocked at nature not confirming to assumptions.
Maybe there's an upper limit of how much dust and gas leads to planets, and above that there's too many collisions and the bodies break up before they can form larger sizes that clear their orbits?
Maybe planets require seeding. Maybe it takes more than just dust, maybe it needs an Oumaumau to fly into the dust cloud and start the process of gathering dust. Maybe Vega doesn't get a lot of visitors. Maybe it's on a barren part of the galactic arm.
I wonder if a gravitational disruption within the disk, would trigger the formation of planets? Perhaps some computer modeling could simulate what would occur in the dust rings, without any gravitational disruptions, and a model with disruption caused by the nearby transit of a star or other large body.
Reminds me of the crazy coincidence of Krypton. In the movie there is a made up fictional chemical formula for the green rock that Lex uses on Superman. By some huge fluke, turns out that chemical actually exists. It was discovered many years after the movie was released. I wonder which is more unlikely, this or Vega's lack of planets.
I'm curious, for the second time in a few weeks someone has referenced the contact movie without even mentioning Carl Sagan, who of course wrote the book 😮
Anton. Do yourself a favor and join the Electric Universe physicists. At least you will be much less confused regarding what the JWST mission is revealing. Those physicists and engineers predicted everything currently being discovered as well as historical space telescope missions. You will enjoy their company. Applied physics is refreshing.
01:05 f _... to discover an enormous amount of debris everywhere and, surprisingly, no planets. And this is really bizarre because, turns out that this is exactly what's possibly happening in real life as well._ That's why the Vegans had to find a new home and came to us. This
I don't think it's that "The most common planets are the ones that don't seem to exist in our solar system - super-earths and mini Neptunes" - but isn't it just that earth-like planets and smaller are harder to detect and thus less likely to be found? It's like, early on the most commonly seen planets were hot Jupiters, but those are the planets that are easiest to detect (super short periods so easy to get multiple passes, for example, and also big, so occluding more of their star). Also, I think it's funny we call them "mini-neptunes" and not "mini-uranuses," like obviously Uranus should be the 'prototype' planet but we just don't use that name because it's embarrassing, lol.
It's a mix of both. Water is the most common compound in the Universe. So it would make sense that water-rich worlds would be very common. But our samples are also biased because of our detection methods.
If Earth has no visitors fr,om Vega, how is it that they have all these restaurants selling Vegan food?
HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!
Absolutely flawless logic, I'm convinced
Good point
🤔
I knew something wasnt right with those people.
The aliens in Contact were not from Vega, they parked a transmitter in the Vega system and their world was elsewhere.
Nobody cares tbh.
@samuelgarrod8327 Jody Foster cares, lol 😂
Indeed, Vega was just the connecting airport to catch a main artery wormhole to distant locations.
I should watch that movie again soon
Excellent sci-fi from Carl Sagan
@@samuelgarrod8327 Yeah we do; I was just about to write this myself lol
It was implied that her first wormhole stop was at Vega, but she takes another wormhole elsewhere.
Very Happy Birthday Carl Sagan...... We miss you.
Thank you again, Anton! Happy Carl Sagan’s Day! 12:12
Thank you for keeping us informed about what is happening outside of our own little bubble. The absolutely brilliant Carl Sagan would be very proud of the information that you are putting out to us. Please, keep up the great work.
Oh yes, Carl Sagan might really like this channel and similar ones with information about what we discover about the universe...
Vega's estimated to bee 455 million years old, rotates unusually fast at 16 hours rotation, is a variable star as well.
Variability alone would make for shaky conditions for planetary formation, the rapid rotation suggestive of a potential merger some time back of a relatively massive object and that could've generated a flash sufficient to briefly disrupt planetary formation and generate that gap at 60 AU, where the radiation pressure finally became insufficient to further repel dust and allow the increased edge increase in density and hence, signal. And an ideal location for an eventual planet to potentially form.
And the star is halfway through its lifetime now, due to its increased mass.
Overall, an interesting star, due to age and rapid rotation! It's bound to get even more interesting when it exhausts its hydrogen and goes giant at a still rather high rotation rate.
In the movie, the signal came from Vega, but where she went, isn't clear.
I thought they ended up near the galactic center based on the density of stars.
Somewhere in the center of the galaxy.
@@montylc2001 Which would be super odd...cuz its like among the most 'dangerous' areas in the galaxy outside globular clusters (they themselves likely being former centers of dwarf galaxies).
I'd think anybody but a Kardeshev 3 would try to avoid those areas. Even a K2 that has 10k star systems under their belt = ant colony compared to a galaxy-spanning K2 or K3: and that K2 would likely focus on "easiest systems to grind up for resources"...100k to 100mil stars in a dense ball = turbulence, high radiation, etc. They prob even avoid white dwarf/neutron/Type-O because of the harsh environments (Type-Os could also 'explode anytime' since they only live 1-10mil yrs...so not a star to park a 'solar system demolition/processing' fleet around.
K2 civs would likely focus on F/G/K/M systems + rogue planets and remnant nebulae...ALL easy places to part a long term (10k to 100mil yrs) fleet around. Even Red Dwarf flare stars = not as dangerous as Type O or neutron stars.
Looks like its no good idea to watch the film prior to reading the book? But then again, if one knows the book, the films then show to be really poor. Always! Perhaps the movies are just meant to be an advertisement for the underlaying books.
🚀🏴☠️🎸
@MichaelWinter-ss6lx I don't think one ruins the other.
They didn't diverge enough to bother me.
I've been watching a few years Anton. I have the wonderful person t-shirt. I just want to say thank you for all the videos and hard work. I love the music at the end of your videos. It makes me feel like I'm about to travel into the unknown ❤
I always smile when Anton waves goodbye. Obviously the content is the most important thing but I love Anton's positivity, too!
Thanks for the unsolicited disc pics..
Those poor stars wanting to form planets and start a family, but not being able. It’s not fair!
Maybe they'll have chance to adopt a systemless planet
No planet for yu!!! Want more star soup, yu pay now!
@@XouXin
The curse of being too heavy ...
Where are all my Contact movie fans!
I’m a fan of the book
@@rwfrench66GenXExperimental galactogenesis and introductory cosmic engineering.
🙋♂️
@@rwfrench66GenX The book was way better, the movie was honestly a disappointment at least for those who have read the book...
'Contact' & 'The Abyss'
Just a bit of trivia, but a quote from the book Contact here:
"There's no way it could be Vega, Dr. Arroway. The system's only a few hundred million years old. Its planets are still in the process of forming. There isn't time for intelligent life to have developed there. It has to be some background star. Or galaxy."
It wasn't just the movie that added that detail. I was just a kid at the time, but my memory and guess is that this trait of Vega's was a popular hypothesis by astronomers back then, likely attributed to a fuzzier estimate than we have now of the star's age.
Wonderful as always Anton. Thank you. 🫡😊👍😁
Fomalhaut: Hey, they're watching us.
Vega: Let's mess with 'em.
Moot point of the day... Vega was more a way station in the movie and not where the aliens were from.
Hey, Carl Sagan was an astronomer, and an excellent science communicator. Sure, Richard Feynman was a little earlier, but his work was general physics. Sagan gave us the stars, and he brought to life and beauty the entire cosmos. So, yeah, when he described Vega, I think he had some insider knowledge. :)
Vega isn't the home of the aliens in Contact. It's simply one of the transceiver points for detecting and communicating with newly radio-capable species.
According to the media there are many people claiming to be vegans living amongst us, but no one can explain how they got here.
😂😂😂
👽🤐
The NASA site that hosts these images wrote the Vega is 450 million years old, not 700 million.
It also mentions that the dust could be seeded from collisions between comets.
Thanks as always Anton -- for helping me learn something new each day
Man the human race under appreciates your channel ! . Your info and vibe and the flow of info is inspiring and totally awesome. I am not an AI bot or some other demon tech nonsense, so this is a real opinion. Plus smoking weed
While watching your channel is really fascinating. Keep up the good work. I hope people are watching you channel on Mars one day.
The light from Jodie Foster's 1997 visit to Vega was observed on Earth in 2022, as a bright flash of a couple of good 90s movies followed by a quiet career.
The scene where Ellie runs to the cabinet to get Dad’s meds is one of the most exceptional in film.
.
My favorite part of the movie is when she is sitting on her car, hears the sound, up to the point when she responds, “Everybody.” I also love the, “Wholly owned subsidiary of Hadden industries.”
Thank you, Carl.
If only billionaires in the real world were like Hadden.
I think Vega was the main star from the novel Contact by Carl Sagan, right?
Oh hahaha, never mind. I see it now
@@MeesterG I was thinking Vega was a street fighting matador.
This is why you watch the whole video before replying, lol.
It was a Chevy that was transported without oil from the factory because they were shipped on trains with their front wheels in the air.
My guess. Planets must precipitate. They need chunks to cause instabilities and turbulence. They need some seed material. Maybe Vega doesn't have chunks and was very uniform at its start and hasn't received any visitors to stir it up.
Hands Up if you get excited when established theoretical ideas are overturned upon closer/extra applied observation and examination
🙋🏽♀️
Love the channel and the content. It's obviously a dark forest strike by Fomalhaut on Vega.
Lost planets. They may just be shy, and hiding on the other side of the accretion disc from us. Perhaps it is just a smoke screen!
Anyway, I'll just go back to my room, now. Thanks, Anton, as always!
Our presumptions may be wrong due to too narrow of a scope, based on what we know. Obviously, there's a lot we don't know, and so maybe we should be careful about presuming too much. Interesting video, both for its scientific content as well as for its implication for our models of planet formation.
So...what I'm hearing is, full speed ahead to the publisher, get Netflix on the phone, and send some of those weird sodas to Neil DeGrasse Tyson. I think he likes the shimp flavored ones.
fascinating anton thanks for the video
it's interesting that 2 stars of similar composition and age are so different
looking forward to any updates
Maybe the activity of stars like this in the first ~billion years is a lot more variable than we think, where VEGA was significantly more active during its growth & prevented planets from forming, while the other star was much more stable and allowed planets to form? We have really good models for mass/temperature/luminosity of different types of stars in general but I feel like we have a lack of knowledge of how much star activity can change on shorter time scales & how that can influence the development of solar systems. Instead of similar mass/composition stars evolving in essentially identical patterns every time, its more like you're rolling the dice on its behavior until you get to long enough time scales when solar systems have stabilized.
My thoughts are it could be a combination of that, and not a lot of interaction between Vega and neighboring stars throughout its lifetime. A nearby passing star would create tidal disruptions in the disk, starting a chain reaction of objects crashing into each other. Vega could’ve been formed at the outskirts of its stellar nursery, and got out without much interaction or interference.
Always interesting discoveries, thanks Anton 👍❤
Have we found any systems similar to ours? Are we unique as far as planetary systems?
Not as far as I know. Tau Ceti is probably the closest in terms of solar properties, but the planets are different
I always ran on the assumption a system like ours is harder than normal to find with our current methods. Not only a single star, but also no giants in close orbit to cause a sizable amount of wobble.
@@whatdamathisn't Tau Ceti the one with the ice giants and the dense asteroid belt?
HD 186302, which is about 184 light years away in the constellation Pavo, has the same age, metallicity, chemical abundances and ratios of carbon isotopes as the Sun. It's not thought to come from the same stellar nursery as the Sun because of its galactic orbit. It's also not known if it has any planets. Detecting an Earth-like planet in an Earth-like orbit would be possible using transits, but the probability of the orientation of the system allowing that is only about 1 in 200.
No...
Like the lady said in the commercial years ago, 'Where's the beef?'. Okay, I'll see myself out now. Thx Anton.
Great topic , thank you Anton
There are so many exciting and wonderful discoveries to be made.
Thanks Anton! 🧭
I don't think that Carl Sagan got it "accidentally" right. Vega is a very young star, and standard planetesimal theory suggests that young stars would have large debris disks. Plus, there have been some photos showing possible disks, floating around on the net for years.
Ok, I'm starting to think Sagan was an alien...
6:14 that image reminds me of the Origin logo at the time of the Wing Commander series, which also famously features Vega
Thank you Anton. This stuff fascinatesme.😊
It is certainly intriguing that Vega appears to be devoid of planets, although this indicates there is still a lot we have to learn about the formation of planetary systems, but it could be that any planets are small and close in, covered by the chronograph used to image the disk.
I am going back to watch it again.
"You're far too trusting. Dantooine is too remote to make an effective demonstration - but don't worry; we will deal with your rebel friends soon enough.".
I'm sure we'll find some sol-type systems once we increase the sensitivity and accuracy of our sensors.
Anton - I'm a huge fan and have been watching your vids for ages. But I really must suggest that you make it a bit more clear what is footage from the movie and what is not. Thanks, and keep up the great work, Wonderful Person!
Hi, Anton. Love your videos - very informative and well presented!
I do have a question related to this one, however. Maybe I missed you saying it, but didn't scientists later determine that Fomalhaut b (Dagon) doesn't really exist and that what was seen in earlier observations was actually a debris cloud?
Nerd that I am (and as part of my universe-building for my novels), I've been keeping a spreadsheet of data for thousands of stars systems, including columns for any exoplanets the NASA Exoplanet Archives says are confirmed. Dagon used to be on their list but was demoted several years ago, and it's my understanding that JWST recently confirmed it doesn't exist and that Fomalhaut only has debris disks. Which would mean that neither Fomalhaut or Vega have planets, at least not planets massive enough or large enough to be detected.
Is this your understanding as well? Or did I miss Dagon being "rediscovered" at Fomalhaut, or is it still listed in other exoplanet catalogs?
Thanks! Again, great video as always!
It might be possible that whatever the dust is made of has very little capability to generate a static charge.
The other possibility is that there is actually a static charge capacity, but the material has such a high melting point that it does not allow anything to coalesce into larger masses by fusing together…
It would be interesting to find out why…
Thank you anton. Your videos are always very informative. And your demeanor is always peaceful thanks again.
Your videos always bring me tons of fun and positivity! Thank you for your unrivaled geony and wit!🌓😈💵
SPAM BOT
Hmmm... would have thought the pressure from Vega that you mentioned would be the cause, preventing clumping and planet forming. Perhaps early on the pressue was high enough to prevent it, where other stars the pressure was under the threshold to prevent clumping.
10:24 statistically speaking yes Vega it’s exception to the rule as we can see there is planets everywhere, star without planets are likely very rare, even Vega some sign of you say in this video of some small planets away from the star.
Contact is an incredible book. i wish they'd turned it into a movie.
That's awesome. It's more fun for me to learn about these stars because I can actually see them even where light pollution is the strongest
Great video!
A failed planetary system, Vega's too big and consumed most of the material and left scraps for maybe 1 small planet, lots of asteroids and even more comets. Or, even with higher mass, the lower specific gravity delays the formation of planets and we are seeing it in its infancy. Great topic, Anton ❤
Indeed, Thank you Anton! You are great and don't give click bait vids :)
Thanks Anton.
Salutes From Western Maryland! 🇺🇸
The background you used for the thumbnail looks EXACTLY like a picture I took of Vega. Made me do a double take.
Maybe it's a bit like supercooled water, it is ready to "phase change" and transform from disk to planets, but it lacks some vital catalyst or "grit" to start that transformation.
it sounds to me like Vega is a fresh canvas ready to form whatever can be formed from its resources around. this could be on heck of a find it this is the beginning to how the planets and moons begin to form. sadly nothing we will ever see in our lifetime but still a cool thought.
I enjoy your universe news,so thumbs up after watching
so.. is the star called Balrog in the Japanese version of this universe?
The book was written by Carl Sagan.
Weird. That image with the black circle at the center of the 'dust cloud' reminds me of the time when I was a kid. It was the middle of Winter, and my dad took me outside with my telescope. WE started looking due north when I stopped on a 'star' that looked just like that image. I couldn't understand why the center of it was a black circle like that. Maybe this is the explanation?
Hopefully soon we’ll start accumulating data on planets around binary stars, which may prove to be very uncommon.
Could it be because of the star's fast rotation rate? The fast rotation could be pulling on the disk too hard preventing the particles from coalescing?
"VEGA!? Cant be, it's only 25 light years away!??? "
🤜⚡💥⚡🤛Your statement that Vega is twice as large is...wrong. For volumes [3D] the size difference varies as cube of the radius and for areas [2D] the size difference varies as square of the radius. As Vega's radius is 2.56X that of Terra, its volume is 13X and projected area is 5.5X that of Terra.
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The fact that the system associated with the two stars are radically different which the Big Bang cosmology is unable to explain but Plasma Cosmology can is just another nail in it's coffin. Keep it coming. The old paradigm will eventually crumble. R.I.P. Big Dope.
🤜⚡💥⚡🤛
First off: he was referencing the radius/diameter which is perfectly fine, it's a measure our brains understand and compare better anyways, and secondly the fact that there are two stars with different systems doesn't prove the electric universe, it just means that we will investigate and solve it just like we have done with so, soooo many mysterious up to this point. This is how science works. You find a problem, make observations, make a hypothesis, then an experiment to prove or disprove your hypothesis(though instead of experiments, in astronomy it's different since experiments are generally not possible). I can almost certainly assure you that there will be a solution to this after at most a few months.
I haven't researched the electric universe theory, so I'm curious as to how you explain this one.
@@Gregorythe5_5551st No, Anton said 'size' not 'R/D' which is a poor way to compare stellar objects as volume can relate directly to surface area and gravity, the two most important metrics to most people.
In re the EU Theory reference, I stated"
*_The fact that the system associated with the two stars are radically different from each other, which the Big Bang cosmology is unable to explain but Plasma Cosmology can is just another nail in it's coffin. Keep it coming. The old paradigm will eventually crumble. R.I.P. Big Dope._*
'Explain' does not mean 'prove' so you are off the mark. Are you as critical of the terminology the BigDung theorists use such as '...black holes ARE dense...', '...Universe IS expanding...', '...nothing can travel faster then light/EM waves...". None of the myriad of proclamations are factual including the ones in this video. Can/will I partake in this nomenclature for brevity? You betcha. Why the double standards/bias? [Rhetorical only]
I used to write more detailed commentaries but it's but casting pearls.... so a waste of time.
I'll send you my latest, albeit short comment to today's vid.
Let me know you got this one and the follow up. YT is poor in messaging = wasting time...again
@@Gregorythe5_5551st U can *_NOT_* almost certainly assure me that there will be a solution to this after at most a few months. ...because experiments or close op observations in deep space are impossible to carry out. YOU said it too. All that the lamestream scientist-wanabees will do is utter a proclamation based on no credible evidence.
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Comment to today's vid:
🤜⚡💥⚡🤛 _As always, Plasma Cosmology predicts and explains this phenomenon more eloquently and scientifically than the Big Bang theory does. The self organizing Birkeland currents/plasma filaments form and then impact virtually all stellar objects [there's more to it]. Binaries and higher order arrangements of objects are common mostly [other reasons exist] because the filaments typically attract [think - electric conductors including plasmas filaments in experiments]. Sometimes the energy levels fluctuate, causing the Birkeland currents to become chaotic resulting in behaviors such as multiple poles [think plasma ball decorative lights] which was the subject matter of Anton's past video. Sometimes the Birkeland currents form stars but if the energy is low or later drops to a low level, planet objects can also result [there is evidence Jupiter and Venus used to glow]. High energy flux can also expand the star, turning it from a high brightness star/object into a cooler giant or super-giant star, or can split the 'hot' star into two or more stars and/or other objects. These energy fluctuation form LC circuits that are seen by us as pulses/fluctuations [think radio and other emissions] and spin [think motors]. I predict that 'unexplainable high rates of spin' will be found, making scientists heads spin... anti-clockwise [hey I can get down in the dirt and say dumb stuff too... but only for sh!ts-&-giggles]._ 🤜⚡💥⚡🤛
_Anton, please don't say _'radio light'_ as there is no such phenomenon or terminology. The word 'light' is invariably reserved for the visible spectrum of the EM band and therefore radio frequencies and visible frequencies are separate phenomena._
@@Gregorythe5_5551st BTW, I'm a triple engineer and a prolific inventor, with penchant for law, psychology, history, bio-sciences, quantum physics, bio-sciences and other fields.. currently developing a 🤜⚡💥⚡🤛low cost, point-to-point, ultralight-category, personal mobility 'jet-pack' - the PersonalJet. 🤜⚡💥⚡🤛
@@Gregorythe5_5551st ??? did you get my 3-4 msgs?
Great video
What I find interesting about the possibility of there being no planets within the system of Vega is that it diminishes the reasoning at the root of the long held view of many astrophysicists that because of the innumerable stars in the universe it is unlikely that the earth is the only planet wear life exists. It may very well mean that many other stars are also alone.
I find the more astounding notion/theory is that there are at least 1:1 ratio of rogues to stars, with many saying its higher in the 20:1 (in favor of rogue planets)...
Not really, there is a maximum mass to a star to create a planetary system. The more massive you go, the rarer the stars are. It doesn't affect that idea much.
The biggest hole in the assumption that there must be life is the complete unknown of the odds of its forming. And sadly a lot of our assumptions have to do with the quirks of our culture.
We used to assume that life originated by a randomly assembled replicator molecule, and calculated the extremely long odds of that happening. Various elements in our culture jumped on that to reinforce their own worldviews and amplified the idea of life being extraordinarily improbable.
Then research led us to discount the need for such a large progenitor molecule and even of any progenitor molecule. But it is not specific enough to give us odds yet. It destroyed the previous assumption but left a complete unknown in its place.
Until that unknown is further nailed down it doesn't matter how big the sample size is.
And for many people the assumptions go way beyond life to something they can talk to and give them a ride. That introduces an unknown quantity of further unknowns.
Thank you! Your work is important. Otherwise I wouldn't hear about stuff like this
Ellie: "This is Vega?!? Where are the slots? The free drinks? The shows?"
Is there enough data available about Vega to reasonably determine what the typical material output, in terms of elemental composition and quantity, of the star should be and compare it to the composition of the cloud to try to determine possible characteristics of bodies around the star?
I wonder if stars can "micro" nova? Throwing off much more matter than a usual CME; but still surviving the occurrence? Also, can we distinguish the difference(s), far, far away, if so? -Amazed with it all...
Maybe the amount of energy coming out of the star is creating some kind of interference wave that is not allowing formation and keeps pulverizing and mixing up the stuff that would form a planet. I would say another thing I would like to see is a through spectrographic analyses to see if there is some kind of odd mix of matter that might be poor elements for setting the stage for planet formation.
"Maybe the amount of energy coming out of the star is creating some kind of interference wave that is not allowing formation and keeps pulverizing and mixing up the stuff that would form a planet" Entirely possible. Above a certain mass the star is throwing out too much UV light, which destroys the materials needed to make planets.
One would assume the larger and hotter a star becomes the less likely it is to form planets near it. Probably why we find them more around red dwarfs.
Anton can you make a video about how planets and stars are bending space,i understand that they are bending space i just don't understand in what particular line they are doing it,can you collide to space fabric if you are flying to it or you just go through it and last question are all the moons around planets are in the middle line around it or they can be anywhere around planets,thanks
Thanks for confirming that most of the astronomical facts from our scientific community are just assumptions. Ignoring magnetism and then ate shocked at nature not confirming to assumptions.
fits the idea that the universe seperates mass by its relative density.
I'd bet the main reason behind this is that Vega had no formation twin to destabilize the dust shells
"If there was no one else; it'd be waste of space."
Maybe there's an upper limit of how much dust and gas leads to planets, and above that there's too many collisions and the bodies break up before they can form larger sizes that clear their orbits?
It's just younger than we had thought. Just has not yet developed and may be very common
Sun gravitational lens telescope needed now!
We're thinking of the wrong movie. Vega is an exit ramp for a cosmic expressway bypass. Next stop Earth. You'll need a towel.
Does Vega rotate at all? The star’s rotation may be crucial for planet formation.
Yeah, I got to be 69 years old, and never had any kids. No planets. Breaks my heart, but as you said, every solar system is different.
Maybe planets require seeding. Maybe it takes more than just dust, maybe it needs an Oumaumau to fly into the dust cloud and start the process of gathering dust.
Maybe Vega doesn't get a lot of visitors. Maybe it's on a barren part of the galactic arm.
I wonder if a gravitational disruption within the disk, would trigger the formation of planets? Perhaps some computer modeling could simulate what would occur in the dust rings, without any gravitational disruptions, and a model with disruption caused by the nearby transit of a star or other large body.
Reminds me of the crazy coincidence of Krypton. In the movie there is a made up fictional chemical formula for the green rock that Lex uses on Superman. By some huge fluke, turns out that chemical actually exists. It was discovered many years after the movie was released. I wonder which is more unlikely, this or Vega's lack of planets.
I'm curious, for the second time in a few weeks someone has referenced the contact movie without even mentioning Carl Sagan, who of course wrote the book 😮
Anton. Do yourself a favor and join the Electric Universe physicists. At least you will be much less confused regarding what the JWST mission is revealing. Those physicists and engineers predicted everything currently being discovered as well as historical space telescope missions. You will enjoy their company. Applied physics is refreshing.
Do yourself a favor and leave the science to people who aren't lunatics.
@ 43 years working in applied sciences. Go fly a kite groupie.
01:05 f
_... to discover an enormous amount of debris everywhere and, surprisingly, no planets. And this is really bizarre because, turns out that this is exactly what's possibly happening in real life as well._
That's why the Vegans had to find a new home and came to us.
This
0:29 So we didn't find the Spanish inquisition?
Hopefully there is a comfy chair somewhere in the star system.
No one expects that
Does this indicate there maybe a limit on the maximum size of a star to create a planetary system?
I don't think it's that "The most common planets are the ones that don't seem to exist in our solar system - super-earths and mini Neptunes" - but isn't it just that earth-like planets and smaller are harder to detect and thus less likely to be found? It's like, early on the most commonly seen planets were hot Jupiters, but those are the planets that are easiest to detect (super short periods so easy to get multiple passes, for example, and also big, so occluding more of their star). Also, I think it's funny we call them "mini-neptunes" and not "mini-uranuses," like obviously Uranus should be the 'prototype' planet but we just don't use that name because it's embarrassing, lol.
It's a mix of both.
Water is the most common compound in the Universe. So it would make sense that water-rich worlds would be very common. But our samples are also biased because of our detection methods.
Is Vega devoid of planetary formation due to some difference in spin from other stars?
Twice as large and twice as massive cannot be the same thing. Mass increases exponentially with diameter.
"Completely by accident"