Can Self-Organization Explain the Origin of Biological Information?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 31 ก.ค. 2024
- In this talk, philosopher of science Stephen Meyer discusses whether self-organization can explain the origin of biological information. This talk is from Meyer's online course, "Stephen Meyer Investigates Scientific Evidence for Intelligent Design" at DiscoveryU.org. You can sign up for the course at www.discoveryu.org/courses/meyer.
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Every day that goes by intelligent design is putting darwinism further in its already massive grave, amazing work.
Don't tell the Darwinian faithful that! They'll kick and scream and talk about 'majority consensus' and call you names.
@@jessebryant9233 i’ve been dealing with the answer of “consensus“ from evolutionist proponents a long time. Consensus does not confer truth, reality is not a democratic process whereby a show of hands makes something a fact. Scientific consensus is like the needle of a compass; it points in a direction but it is not the destination. And like the compass needle it may (and sometimes does) point in a wrong direction. You may refer to a number of things about which scientists were certain, only to find they were mistaken. At this point the other usually says, with great dignity, that is how science works, starting from a premise, then abandoning it when better data is available. And they do this as a complete flip-flop, not realizing they have abandoned the position of consensus. This is a good time to bring up the Semmelweis Reflex. Consensus is generally coercion of the weakest by the strongest and abandoning the consensus is only a dreadful, drastic last resort. It generally requires it’s adherents to die of old age while a younger generation is more receptive to new ideas. When a proponent of evolution says “the scientific consensus is such and such” they are really saying “Some scientist say…” Your logical question to them is which scientist and what precisely are they saying? When I ask those questions the evolution proponent generally doesn’t know the answer because they never asked the questions themselves. They don’t know who said what, they just know it’s “true”. They can say what they like but they can’t State it as fact without substantiation
“Consensus“ is not the Great and Powerful Wizard of Oz, it’s the dumpy little guy behind the curtain pulling levers. And when you ask your opponent to pull back the curtain the dumpy little guy usually isn’t there.
Intelligent design agrees with evolution . Evolution is based on faith only . No evidence of any kind of evolution . Designed or not designed .
It certainly shows that dawinism is a failed theory.
Darwinian Theory may not explain the origin of life, but definitely explains diversity of life that exists now. So no it is not dead.
Also the presenter just refuted 1 or 2 origin of like theories. That doesn't mean god did it, it just means we still don't know how life came about. If at every turned that we didn't understand a phenomena, we resorted to god, we would be living in the stone age.
Stephen Meyer is the MOST BRILLIANT philosopher of science out there - bar none!! Fantastic work there, Dr. Meyer!
One has to wonder about the poor souls who thumb down a video like this...
I agree Weihan. Meyer is absolutely brilliant.
Information always comes from an intelligent source. Why is it so difficult for them to understand that?
Information is only perceived as information when observed by an intelligent observer, for example words are just scribbles on paper for a dog but for us, its our way of sending and receiving messages.
Information doesn't always come from an intelligent source, knowledge on the other hand does. Information is simply a property of matter that imparts 'form' , shape and function (if any) to an object. This 'formation' process can very easily be random in nature or it can also be intelligently controlled and designed. Question: how does God come up with or create information? Where does he get it from? Is God himself made of information? Is it not necessary to have information first before intelligence can do anything since to be intelligent one must have knowledge of information? Intelligence itself has a form that informs the intelligence process.
@@alexgonzo5508 what source of specific meaningful information besides a mind can you think of?
Enter word salad chefs.
Comprehension is key...you can say anything you will, but it has no effect if those who hear it have no idea what it means. To those who believe, it becomes the activator within their own minds, so we the benefactors of sacred writings do not recede backward into the darkness of minds unorganized and lacking true understanding of the Infinite Eternal Mind of the God of the Living. SHALOM-PEACE comes only where He has found rest in the Hearts and minds of the living. Because We cannot, having truly beheld His Love and Wisdom, refuse to give Him our Love whole heartily. He spoke to us when he spoke to them who beheld him in ancient times, saying His Words are like the grains of seeds that cloth the fertile lands, producing an abundance of food which sustain not just the human families, but the animals, the birds- all living creatures. This was depicted through ancient artworks as the sacred Tree of Life. The Higher precepts come to us through the Son of Man, for he is shown these precepts and charged with instructing those who hunger for His Word. They received rest, food, and water through His graciousness as The Lord of the Hosts [which are the two great lights of the Heavens-the sun and the moon]. But afterward they seek Him because they realize that the sun and the moon were simply carrying out His commands, each in turn preserving the continuity of the cycles of life on earth. Only with Man, is the command to choose How you will serve Him-freewill. Without knowledge, there is no comprehension. Without comprehension of the purpose, there is no meaning. And where it has become meaningless, there is only apathy- without a pathway for the continuity. And the Light within the human body is extinguished like an ember of fire consuming the last speck of fuel that enabled it to provide illumination in the darkness of a night.
I'm no biologist, but I find this subject simply fascinating. Evolutionists will try to tell you that time was the deciding factor in creating information ("Anything can happen if you give it enough time."). I'm of the notion that the process was kickstarted by something other than nature.
So you believe God kickstarted evolution?
@@thanushan3981 That's possible - but it's not scriptural.
So given enough time life spontaneously arose , then given enough time the slime developed 2 different sexes at the same time and they found each other given enough time and they miraculously developed a sexual attraction😏
@@thanushan3981 no, rocks in water did....
@@mugdiller2124 No, it's not even possible God could have kickstarted evolution.
God bless science 🙏 Proving God's infinite wisdom and intellect the more we learn.
Sir Stephen, im from a city named Hyderabad from South India. Plz allow me to say this, that youre pure passion for the defence of the Lord and His Word. He said Behold I have the keys of David with Me. Youre a representation of that description of the Lord of possessing His vessels whom He uses to unlock the minds of the skeptics to the reality of the truth. His truth.
God bless you. I wish i knew you all when i was an under graduate in Biotechnology.
How do you know what God or Lord he's talking about ? Because I've never heard him talk about the bible or any of it's message
I rode my bicycle across India
I rode thru Hyderabad
Ok, that was mind blowing. I had been taught the nucleotides were joined. Wow.
Dr. Meyer your continued efforts to bring the simple logical truth to the masses is very much appreciated! We can you hope your efforts bring more people to Christ, Lord willing!
... bring more people to the truth
I'm on my second read of "Signature in the Cell" Brilliant.
The theory of intelligent design is just amazing!
I love the more visual format here and how it more easily explains these concepts. I especially appreciate the call back to the chapters where this is discussed in the books. These are a great supplement to the books!
Dr. Meyer is a gift! A genius who's not above using toys to communicate his points.
I was thinking that too
Dr Meyer is such a warrior for the TRUTH. Well done sir. I loved the paper and the ink analogy. No more hijacking of the grand biological information present in all living things and reducing it to mere chemistry. This add a sort of renewed value to each and every living creature who are all made with a purpose.
16 dislikes (currently) are proof that information sometimes comes about through non-intelligent means.
Amazing content as always Dr. Meyer. I hope one day you release a biological textbook, one with a great deal of technical information regarding origin of life/DNA/functional specific information, that can be taken as an alternative to what is being produced in the 'standard' secular worldview of today. You have opened my eyes to the scientific truth of life and intelligent design over the past 2-3 years, and for that I will be eternally grateful.
Agreed. I hope DNA and information pops up in science education before evolution comic strips.
Thank you dr Meyer! I love all your work and I’ve read all your books except the last one, which just arrived.
I appreciate the use of "childrens" toys in explaining these incredibly deep concepts. lol Thanks for all your hard work Dr. Meyer and Discovery Science.
Great video. There's some very basic philosophical concepts about information and causality that strict evolutionists seem to completely ignore, and end up twisting themselves in knots trying to explain around. The magnet board illustration is wonderful. I've often wondered how they miss the point that if you took any book and just started randomly flipping letters to new ones you dont get a new book out of it, you just destroy the existing one
If the environment throws out the most nonsensical books and keeps the most coherent ones then you will eventually get a new book. The only one missing a concept is you.
@@noxypoxyroodypoo yet the DNA language is arbitrary.
@@polystrate1 No more arbitrary than any other language. It's very similar to human language, in that it began in a state where the information and function were closely linked. A self-propagating nucleotide chain is analogous to a pictogram, since the form directly relates to the functional meaning. Genetic code and language both developed into more abstract forms where function is separated from the information-carrier, because this is a more efficient manner of storing and replicating the information.
@@noxypoxyroodypoo what are the mathematical odds of getting a new and improved version of Brothers Karamazov by Dostoevsky? Did the production of new books suddenly speed up during the cambrian explosion?
Excellent work Stephen, keep 'em comin"!
Did the Darwinists ask themselves: every living thing from single cell to complex one has a goal that is re produced itself. How the unguided natural process implement this goal in life in the first place?
For that goal the first living organism must seek food, protect itself and re produce. It's absolutely impossible for the theory of evolution to answer that question, yet the materialists with the corrupted main strem media said the theory is the best explanation for the origin and diversity of life.
Spot on. Reproduction proves design. WHY is there reproduction?
That's the easiest possible question for evolution to answer. The chemical patterns that reproduce themselves will quickly outnumber the ones that don't. It's not a goal, it's simply what they do, because the ones that don't cease to exist. As to the "first living organism," here is an easy to understand example that exhibits all the necessary traits for chemical evolution to begin: th-cam.com/video/lQrCsPrh11M/w-d-xo.html
@@noxypoxyroodypoo Where these molecules get the information for reproducing themselves from? And why they want to do that? Is there is a purpose implemented in them by a designer? You are avoiding the question
@@ndsuusa9787 The information is created when nucleotides polymerize into a sequence, like randomly typing on a keyboard. Some nucleotides self-polymerize. What information are you talking about? What do you mean by "why they want to do that?" They are just chemicals acting according to the laws of physics, they don't "want" anything. I did answer the question. All kinds of information is randomly created, only the more functional information survives.
This is great. Thank you.
Amazing thanks for sharing this 😁
Great video!!
This channel is a gold mine. Thank you sir.
Really well done, great job
Excellent observations!🔬
Excellent summary of another unanswerable hole in the Swiss cheese of Darwinism.
The entire video has nothing to do with Darwinism. The origin of functional information in the genome is already explained by natural selection.
Thank you sir for unveiling the truth to us
I like very much this explanation!
GREAT VIDEO
Great information!
Thanks for your hard work 💪💜
Looking forward to the next video...😌
The wavelength of the DNA "twists" are the same wavelength of blue light. I wonder if there is encoded information also in the form of electromagnetic radiation
The wisdom of thoughts presented by this channel and the entire body of work associated with Discovery Science is intellectually robust and diligent- an exceptional service to our soulfullness- could the same be developed by people interested in the metaphysics supported by this channel regarding the ‘meaning of death’ as an information based transformation as it is presented in the ancient spirit of biblical knowledge- that would truly complete ‘the Circle’.
Very interesting. Thank you. Audio quality is low I think due to mic positioning or something.
I saw this video title in my suggested videos and came here to "fight with the evolutionists" and who was giving the talk, Dr. Steven Meyer.
BUT I was not disappointed.
Very well done.
The work of Intelligent Design scientists is revolutionizing our understanding of the origin of life. Thank you for this important contribution to human knowledge.
Thanks, again, for the reading assignments. They really add depth to these terrific mini-lectures. Hopefully we have many more to look forward to.
You make great content, but there is a technical issue with the audio. It sounds like some sort of gate that does not let all quiet sounds get through. Therefor the speak in not clear enouch. Please fix it, because as I said the contet is fantastic. All the best :)
The fix to this is to use an audio compression effect which is available in almost all video editing applications, basically an automatic leveling of the audio to amplify the soft parts and soften the loud parts, smoothing it all out. This would greatly increase the production value of these videos. I would suggest the editor of these videos to research and apply compression effects for future videos as it is very noticeable and distracting. Great presentation and information on a topic that needs more exposure!
Very interesting
Love these videos guys! Just a little technical constructive criticism, the gain is really weird on the audio. Might be worth pitching in for a little better microphone. God bless!
Which playlist on this channel does this video come from? Can someone send me a link? I can't seem to find it.
Thx dr. Meyer for explanation so clear on such an important & complex subject.!
👉THANK YOU 👈👉🙏👈👉 MR.MEYER 👈For Your 👉COURAGE 👈and 👉LOVING WORK 👈🙏❤️
Helpful video. However, the audio engineering on this video is very distracting. The audio sounds way over gated.
Stephen Meyer talks about conservative self-organization. Life is transcending physics and chemistry. Life is information technology realized on dissipative self-organization in a nonlinear media of network of self-replication.
Love the content in your videos, but the audio quality in this video is bad.
"Indeed, our uniform experience affirms that specified information … always arises from an intelligent source, from a mind, and not a strictly material process. So the discovery of the specified digital information in the DNA molecule provides strong grounds for inferring that intelligence played a role in the origin of DNA. Indeed, whenever we find specified information and we know the causal story of how that information arose, we always find that it arose from an intelligent source. It follows that the best, most causally adequate explanation for the origin of the specified, digitally encoded information in DNA is that it too had an intelligent source."
--- Stephen C. Meyer
It is time to conclude that atheism is based on some inner desire and has in the end of the day nothing to do with logic.
Atheism starts with a materialistic conclusion. And it holds on to that conclusion no matter what.
Hence the endless search for materialistic causes, for which I am very grateful. Because they uncover Gods work while they keep searching for this nonexistent materialistic cause.
Atheism isnt the conclusion that God does not exist, its the conclusion that there is not sufficient evidence to draw a conclusion that there is a God. So you cam say that we can't prove God materialistically but then you would need another way of demonstrating Gods existence (not with intelligent design)
Absolutely! Well said!
@sanderossi absolutely! atheists are necessarily materialists they believe that all life can only be explained by natural material causes, but have been on that journey doing nothing but proving to the world the exact opposite of what they claim.
@@thanushan3981 "there is not sufficient evidence" is that a belief? or an assumption? and what is it factually based on?
I love the lecture, but can you please get the audio right? Way too bassy. Production value, please.
❤️
I read Signature in the Cell a few months ago and highly recommend it to any intellectually honest person, especially scientists who "drank the Kool-aid" while obtaining their degrees without doing what scientist are supposed to do ... challenge the accepted models of natural phenomena by experimentation and analysis (mathematical and logical) in order to develop better models.
The sound is a bit weird. I checked other peoples videos on youtube for comparison and some old videos from this channel it seems the last videos from you have some quality issue with the sound. I'm not sure what is I'm not an expert but I can notice that.
Weird presentation format. Great content.
Interesting and clearly explained..
If you disagree could you articulate why you disagree.
Even referring me to another speaker with a counter argument would be good !
"Self-organization in dissipative structures: A thermodynamic theory for the emergence of prebiotic cells and their epigenetic evolution."
R.M.Pulselli, E.Simoncini, E.Tiezzi
th-cam.com/video/lQrCsPrh11M/w-d-xo.html
Sad, audio compression here was a total disaster. It sounds like DBX expansion was used on an 'uncompanded' signal (exponential gain). It sounds like he's shouting at listeners..
DBX tech is kinda of old? No disrespect. What I hear is gated upward expansion. Yes it was a disaster.
Funny, I understood him perfectly.
I have a question. Can someone help me?
I understand that the first informative molecule is what needs to be explain, but I wonder how _actual_ DNA´s bases arrenged themselves, because I guess that every new DNA that arrenged do not do it against a high improbability like the first informative molecule.
Your audio is almost unlistenable, YT is probably concerned.
Feeding the algorithm
It's far more likely that the ribosome appeared before DNA or proteins.
Why is the sugar represented by the pentagon?
We didn't see the Mona Lisa being created, so perhaps various pigmentation particles landed just right naturally on a square canvas like grid structure also spontaneously formed through chance, or perhaps it was created by an intelligent painter. Both hypotheses are 'possible' however the first would be deemed statistically impossible and the other deemed likely by similarity in that we already know meaningful information is only sourced from a mind. By comparison the amount of functionally specific information encoded in DNA within the exquisite double helix structure makes it even much more likely the product of design than chance. Given those odds - which theory would you bet your eternity on?
Do molecules and atoms have thinkning power?
Not until they are intelligently arranged for building a fictional brain and nervous system. Still if we could construct a human just using molecules we would have what functionally amounts to a dead human. Even artificial intelligence requires an intelligent designer and someone to supply power and start the program.
I tried it with washing the dishes. They refused to wash themselves.
Commenting for algorithm
Mics playing up..
Exacly
To believe that you are here by random chance is to deny your own intuition. I really don't care what science or the Bible or anyone has to say. I look at myself and know that it's not an accident that I am designed the way I am. I really feel sorry for anyone who thinks they are an accident because their life is devoid of purpose and wonder.
Very sad indeed.
That's amazing that there's no known reason why these chemicals align with each other. Another stupefying
dilemma for origin of life researchers to speculate away.
I used to think proteins and DNA were just a bunch of blobby stuff. Then thanks to internet and research I've seen mind blowing alien like machinery, strings of super complex codes and I knew: there is a Maker.
The fallacy “begging the question” is a poor name for the circular reasoning fallacy it is supposed to represent. It comes from two mistranslations, first of Greek to Latin then again from Latin to English. Going from Greek to English it should simply be “assuming the conclusion".
how that proves biblical god?
The wind blowing some dead leaves around is an event. A firefly lighting up to attract other fireflies is an IDEA. It has a purpose behind it.
The notion that events magically gave birth to ideas (“abiogenesis”) violates the most basic logic.
Something peculiar about the audio of these videos on you stereo.
yes believe the one out of 1000s of scientists because it fits your own personal views.
confirmation bias is a wonderful thing
all the other countless scientists who have spent careers studying this topic
are just wrong but this guy has it right...???
Right and you believe the thousands of scientists because it fits your views. Confirmation bias is a wonderful thing you are proof. If only there was some science we could look at... Oh look that is what this video contains! And so do the three books he has written on the subject.
Also for the record scientific discoveries are made by one person who is right in the face of others saying he is wrong. Copernicus, Newton, Galileo, currie just to name a few. That is kind of how science works.
Magnetics
Stephen Meyer has a deeper depth of information of any scientist today. He has a firm grasp of chemistry, biology, archeology and philosophy. Which is important because they all play a part in the origin of life and evolution debate.
Information Theory: Order (i.e. crystal structure) and Information (DNA/RNA) are NOT the same thing.
Great Meyer Great...
Write another Book After God Hypothesis...
Know please write Fact of God
✌️🤛🙏
the audio in this is terribe, please tell your audio guy to up his game. it sounds like someone is playing with the the gain dial throught the video
You're a mathematician and you're arguing against the probability of a single protein or DNA molecule self assembling when no biologists seriously proposes that proteins or DNA formed that way to begin with?
Biochemical predisposition just moves the problem one step back--who built the predisposition into the molecules? It's like who cut the puzzle pieces so they fit in only one way? Why did they even come up with this theory with these obvious flaws? They must be desperate.
Even with a mountain of evidence, "still the won't believe".
Reaching God from science and logics. Simple.
The chemicals know nothing.
#JUNK DNA
We already know the origin of (functional) information: selection. It's not a mystery, you can observe it in the lab. Functional random variants will most successfully survive and reproduce in a specific environment. The offspring of those variants will inherit the functional traits, and go through another round of selection. You don't even need a lab, just run a genetic algorithm on your computer.
Asking where the information came from for the first proteins is a conflation of functional information with random information. Selection and inheritance turns naturally occurring random information into functional information.
Sorry, but, no.
Selection is an effect, not a cause. How does function come into being in the first place? Random mutations of DNA? That's the burden evolution has to prove. Selection of already existing variation is trivial. Show me a single mutation that has generated a new function.
@@dooglitas Great argument.
@@dooglitas noxy wants it to be true so badly.
@ An effect of something can also be a cause of something else, so I'm not sure what you're trying to say. How is selection not a cause of random information being turned into functional information?
Function is merely what something does, so... the laws of physics? Random genetic code will either do something or it won't, the codes that do something will survive if they help the species survive. Random mutations can create new functions, allowing the species to better function and to adapt to a changing environment.
There are many examples of observed functional mutations like antibiotic resistant and nylon eating bacteria. Our entire agricultural system is built on finding functional mutations in plants. There is even an entire field of research devoted to it, called gain-of-function research. You might have heard of it recently.
The 1000 Likes will evolve into the 19 Dislikes if given enough time.
Darwinite logic.
awful sound btw!
😣
it's been the same story for thousands of years. We attribute to god what we cannot yet completely explain. In the past it was lightnings, thunder and volcanoes , now it is chemical bondings and the ordering of chemical molecules ... still progress
Speak for yourself. No "we" don't, you do. Your "god" isn't intelligent.
God told us what happened, that’s why we believe
The theory of intelligent design is just amazing!