(This was my reply to someone in a comment thread, but I'm copying it here as it may help more people understand this perspective) *"Why did people think that Mr. Grizz wasn't a bear when the only evidence about his identity suggested that he was a bear?* A lot of people were hoping that Grizz would not be the antagonist of Splatoon 3 at all. I remember thinking it would be unfortunate to unveil his true identity just one game after his introduction, when he could have been built up across a longer period and given more time to develop BEFORE his big reveal. Of course, with the reveal of ROTM, many people believed Grizz was going to be involved. It was easily assumed that he might be the one attempting to bring back the mammals, but we didn't have any confirmation that HE was a mammal himself. Grizz likely knew of the Ark Polaris bear, but that didn't have to mean he WAS the bear. And the bear radio at Grizzco would make a lot more sense if he wasn't obscuring his appearance through a device that... shares his appearance. While there wasn't any solid evidence of him being something *other* than a bear, it was left vague enough that he could have been *anything.* Some people wanted to see a sea creature scientist who was obsessed with the mammals of the past. Some people thought it could be an AI remnant of the humans like Commander Tartar. Others thought Grizzco could have connections to Lil'Judd, DJ Octavio, or the Professor. There was no reason to think any of these options *couldn't* happen, and it felt like the developers *wanted* us to speculate about Grizz's identity. The AI/ prerecorded voice idea is actually something that was hinted at in a dev interview, which is why many people now believe that is how Grizzco functions after the events of ROTM. These kinds of teases from the developers got people excited about all of the possibilities of what Grizz could be. It's not so much that the evidence was already there, but the potential was. Grizz could have dropped hints throughout Splatoon 3's story itself to make the reveal less random (something I think they should have done even with him being a bear). While his true identity may have not been directly foreshadowed by previous games if he were something other than a bear, such a reveal would allow the Grizzco statue and the Ark Polaris bear to serve as red herrings. Casual fans of the story would assume Grizz to be a bear, while dedicated followers of Splatoon lore would know that there could be *anyone* behind that radio. Grizz being a literal bear was disappointing to a lot of people because it rendered all of this speculation pointless. It wasted one of Splatoon's biggest mysteries on the most obvious answer. And on top of that, his backstory didn't even make sense.
Everything you’ve said here is articulating my gripes with Mr. Grizz. May I add on that, the realized version of him we have in ROTMM is just a worse version of Commander Tartar? Both villains want to see their idealized world come to light, and have unfavorable opinions on inkfish society. However, Tartar ties directly into the overarching themes of the series, and has its own background explaining why it thinks this way. Mr. Grizz on the other hand, while having his own background, doesn’t have enough in it to explain why when he woke up, he decided he must destroy Inkfish society & bring back mammals. It vaguely implies that he might’ve been upset that the age of mammals was no more, but it’s never stated like Tartar. In every way, Grizz is just a worse Tartar.
I think Return of the mamalians is the same as the first splatoon: Story with questions to answer in the next game. Splatoon 1 made you wanted to know about Octarians, Splatoon 3 wants you to know about the experiments and the "soul" or whatever he did to Cuttlefish. I THINK!!! The reason why the little fish turned into a giant salmon and grizz turning into some kind of goo will be answered with the story of the Salmonids; The megalodon salmon bosses made by music, human pollution (the reason why the arc failed and something the game has not touched, like toxic waste and such) IF THEY ARE PLANING TO MAKE SPLATOON 4 ( I HOPE) I bet they will answer that in the next game, the only thing left is the invation of salmonids, I think Octavio will be the "In my time" kind of characters now that is been "humanized" in the DLC and main game.... or I am just coping hard
I think Splatoon 1 functioned very well as set-up for stories to come due to it being the first entry and very small in scope. Splatoon 3 was built up to be the "end of the Splatastic saga," which is why I was disappointed that it raised more questions than it answered. Some things really feel like they should have been explained then and there. But yes, I'm still holding out hope that all of these loose threads get tied up eventually. I definitely think the story will continue, and I'm still very excited to see where it goes next, especially after Side Order
I think it would've been better if Deep Cut were hired by Mr. Grizz to stop Neo Agent 3. If you think about it, the bear is loaded. He could offer to pay them handsomely if they dealt with us.
Yesssss this is exactly what I was thinking and what he was touching base on about inklings and octolings representing humans this would’ve been a great opportunity to exemplify the exploitation of the poor and working class for wealthy people/ people with and agenda or motive. That way deep cut aren’t just some random bounty hunters that are in the way, they’re cohesive within the story.
@@メプチューン i mean OTH gave them too; i think it's an exception to the rule since stages need to be announced somewhere and it'd be distracting to have a seperate grizzco cast
That’s really smart!! Plus then once grizzco was defeated, the theee could’ve been all “well…we’re out of a job..” and Marie could’ve still stepped in and kept the dynamic we have now, but more depth to the trio :)
Whilst I don’t really have a problem with Return of the Mammalians at all. I just find it *EXTREMELY* hilarious, that for years there was a certain part of the Splatoon community was so confident and sure, that Mr. Grizz was 100% NOT a bear. Only to be gob-smacked in the fucking face, with him not only being a bear, but also revealing how he made Grizzco. And having him be the big spectacular finale to the game. I’m sorry that shit is so funny to me LMAO
There was definitely a bit of delusion going around. We were coping with ROTM scraps for months lol Even if Grizz being a bear does seem really obvious in hindsight, though, I still think it was fair to expect an explanation for him being an *intelligent, talking bear.*
@@TheCosmicCloud I always assumed that being in a "waking dream" or whatever for 12 000 years, way longer than the average bear's lifespan, allowed him to learn more, become more intelligent than a bear normally should be He's existed for a long time with nothing but his thoughts so I imagine over time those thoughts grew more complex
@@badopinionssquid1735 I think the idea of Grizz becoming intelligent over time could've been alright if it was explained in more detail, or if it explicitly involved whatever experiments the humans were conducting on him (or even the liquid crystals). The current explanation simply doesn't make sense. Obviously not everything in Splatoon is scientifically sound, but it feels like the developers used cyrosleep to explain Grizz surviving 12,000 years and then just tacked on the part about him dreaming to explain his intelligence. The fact that we don't even get this information until AFTER we defeat him just makes what should be a complex backstory feel like a last-minute, lazy explanation
@@TheCosmicCloudI think a big problem was that it kind of goes at odds with Judds lore being the only mammal left and the melancholy of that. The fact that the mystery of Grizz in splatoon 2 is so alluring that anyone could be behind that speaker. Do forgive people for thinking that McDonald’s is not actually literally owned by a clown. As funny as it would be
Something that did always rub me the wrong way, aside from the very obvious character butchering- Was that they told us ROTM would act as a finale for the SquidBeak Splatoon, yet the actual result we got didn’t feel like a satisfying payoff. I wanna believe they had a much grander idea for the trilogy conclusion, especially with what we’ve seen in the Art Of Splatoon 3. But a lot of those ideas had to be scrapped for something much simpler, so they could still ease in series newcomers.
Yeah, I keep hoping they don't try and pretend that Splatoon 3 was the great sendoff to the squidbeak saga like they tried to make it and they actually acknowledge "Yeah we fucked it up" and try again to give it a proper ending. But so much of what's going on is giving the impression that they are just going to pretend they succeeded at making that sendoff. Deep Cut didn't even get anything, and Agent 4 literally was completely left out despite getting their home address doxxed by Nintendo. That art that showed all of the agents supposed to be returning for Splatoon 3 would've actually been the kind of thing expected from the ending of the current saga.
The weirdest part about this to me is that Octo Expansion already felt like the finale of Squidbeak. The Octarians were finally acknowledged as equals, Cuttlefish ends up learning and growing close to the people he used to fight against, Agent 3 returns (with a remix of Splattack), and we face off against a creation of the humans. Even Callie and Marie are referenced a number of times---they're revealed to be important to 2 of the story's major characters, and we hear the Calamari Inkantation. It was every idea introduced in the first game turned up to 11. I don't know why they decided to stretch out this supposed "Squidbeak Saga" when, in my mind, it had already ended
I disagree I mean the plot isn't perfect buut the characters weren't full on butchered. I mean...going into space to fight a built up villian of half a decade didn't feel like a satisfying payoff?
Honestly, I think my biggest disappointment is that we got a story with Mr.Grizz as the main villain.......And it has absolutely nothing to do with the Salmonids. They and GrizzCo barely even get a single mention (outside of Grizz's "corporate speak" jokes). Like, I love Little Buddy as much as everyone else, but he could have been replaced with a MacGuffin/plot item and nothing would change.
as someone who really enjoys return of the mammalians, i have to say that there were some things i did not like! i was very dissatisfied with the fact that deep cut were barely in the story mode and although i really like their boss fights, i wish we got to know more about them personally. i know we learn more about how they met in the different interviews and magazines but i wish it was explained more in the main story itself. i loooove splatoon lore very much however, deep cut is the one we know least about which makes me sad as they are probably my favorite group. i just wish they got more chances to shine in their own game!!!!
Deep Cut not getting their own storymode will always be the worst part about Splatoon 3. I get that they were probably planning on more than one DLC originally, but Deep Cut really should've been the priority over Off The Hook. Deep Cut has had their game taken away by the other idol groups time after time. And thanks to the newscast being skippable in this game, most people didn't even care to know anything about Deep Cut unlike the other two groups since those newscasts are the main way we learn anything about the characters and world in Splatoon
@@Freelancer837i agree a thousand percent they deserve the attention too! They are so much more uniqer interms of what they mean despite just being idols.. THEY ARE TREASURE HUNTERS AND HEADS OF CLANS!!! THATS CRAZY come on noooowwww and ontop of that now their agents more and such like 😭 GIVE THEM FIVE DLCS ILL BIY THEM ALL SPLATOON
the vast majority of lore we know about the other idols is from non in-game lore. why would you expect the opposite to be the case for S3 and deep cut? we didn’t even know really why callie and marie were separated in splatoon 2s story mode until we got more info outside of the game… i feel like i’m going crazy reading these comments
Didn’t make sense to me why Alterna looked so pristine despite supposedly being destroyed by falling debris. Or why the ORCA trials were designed for humans by humans but are ink based
The ink stuff might be due to ORCA, being fully aware and always learning what happens in the planet. And the Alterna 'pristine look' isn't really there? Like the place is messy, full of garbage, the whole place is flooded because of the crater flooding way back when, and it's full of fake snow. But can understand why stuff hasn't really faded away naturally, it's secluded underground without any real disturbance aside from the recent events
@@jimlight5137 not really, no. It’s never said he cleaned it up. The logs say the entire place was destroyed by the rocket. Yet, there’s a rocket and the place is pristine 🤨 Explain the ink based trials made specifically for inkfish even though it was a human settlement
I think most of ROTM's flaws are a result that Splatoon campaigns are still limited to short, 6-hour campaigns where the vast majority of storytelling is done through lore dumps in dozens of text files. Many of ROTM's inconsistencies is that it's really the first campaign to try and do more than that, but was still limited to the few resources the Splatoon dev team is given to make these campaigns. That's why we don't learn more about Mr. Grizz, why the test chambers exist, or where DJ Octavio is for the majority of the story. There simply isn't enough room to include those things without making ROTM a more standard, traditionally sized campaign. Even the best Splatoon story, Octo Expansion, did quite a bit in terms of character development, but it's ultimately still done through layers and layers of text on a screen rather than a more meaningful story sequence, and Sanitization as a concept is barely explained in the actual game, left instead to developer interviews for players to seek out. I think that's why I'm able to let a lot of ROTM's issues slide because it's having to do all of these things with more or less the same limitations as previous campaigns in terms of scope. Yes, all the issues you mention in this video are valid, but the highest highs in ROTM are still some of the coolest world-building and storytelling moments in a Splatoon game. The rocket ambience, for example, containing the last recorded messages of humanity is some of the coolest environmental storytelling in the series. The Crater sequence is also one of my favorite moments in a Splatoon game. Having Octavio show up as the first boss and making the player immediately question the true nature of what's going on might be the most memorable moment of the entire campaign for me. And even with Mr. Grizz's flaws as a predictable twist villain and lacking a proper backstory, he perfectly complements the story's themes about embracing change and how death can lead to life (the fall of humanity leading to the rise of the Inklings/Octolings). So while the story has many, many inconsistencies, it's hard for me to not say that the story is still very memorable and effective in many areas. It simply deserved to a bigger campaign; therefore, I would argue that ROTM's biggest flaw isn't a lack of attention to detail like you claim, but that it's trying to bring far too many details into a story that simply doesn't have room for them. That's why I respect ROTM more than Octo Canyon in Splatoon 2, a story with next to zero ambition or interesting things to say. ROTM at least has some incredible imagery, atmosphere, and themes. I also completely disagree with you that Side Order improves on any of these issues at all. I think nearly all of these flaws apply to Side Order as well, but in a greater amount while failing to make up for it with cool sequences and theming like ROTM did. Despite ROTM being flawed, the things about it that I mentioned that I loved gave me hope that ambition for Splatoon stories would continue to rise. Side Order pretends like it has a lot going on and wants to have an insightful, thought-provoking story but does none of the work to deserve that. While ROTM has many inconsistencies, it at least properly foreshadows many aspects of its conflict and themes, with the fuzzy ooze and Alterna logs. Side Order hypes you up in the beginning only for there to be literally zero story until the finale. How exactly is defeating Smollusk and working together with Pearl, Marina, and Acht supposed to be a satisfying conclusion to the story when none of these things are given a single moment to develop. If you beat Smollusk within your first few tower runs, chances are the only story you were given outside of the tutorial is 1 or 2 Marina Diaries and elevator text between floors. I can't describe how monumentally disappointed I was with how little thought and care was given to how this story is told. I think it squanders its potential far, far more than ROTM.
I absolutely agree that scope is a limiting factor for Splatoon's developers, and that ROTM could have fully realized its ideas given more resources and time. However, knowing that, I personally wish the developers would have not attempted to make the story so ambitious in the first place. It tries to explore a wide range of ideas, but without the space to do so, each of these ideas can only be examined at the surface level. The best example of this is Grizz; conceptually, his arc is compelling, but in practice, he only has a few meaningful lines of dialogue. If Nintendo did not intend to flesh out 11 characters in their story, I would criticize the decision to include 11 characters. On some level, I respect their ambition, but I would have preferred a story that was smaller in scope and deeper in meaning. Walls of text and developer interviews are not ideal, but they are at least a way to give that information to the players. It's true that a lot of important parts of Octo Expansion are not in the game itself, but what those interviews and pieces of concept art show us is that the developers thought deeply about the story that was being told. It's been 2 years since the release of Splatoon 3, and we have almost no information about ROTM's development, concepts, or explanations for its plot holes. This is perhaps a different issue entirely, but I do not feel like Nintendo has communicated to the fans that they care about this story as much as they used to. Side Order has plenty of its own flaws, and I'm not going to argue it's an amazing story, but for me it comes closer to what I just described. A story that is smaller in scope and grandiose, but with a more focused set of characters who are relevant to the setting and whose flaws and motivations tie them together. I completely understand if you find the storytelling structure of ROTM more compelling, and in many ways I agree. I think a GREAT Splatoon story is one that builds upon established lore while also carving it's own identity. Side Order feels a bit too much like an Octo Expansion 1.5, but I personally found it more satisfying than ROTM, which at times felt entirely disinterested in the existing canon
What I'd like to know is how Lil' Judd and Judd all mix into this whole mess. Clearly, Grizz is not the only Mammal left, but seemingly has not ever met any of these other two Mammals, that could have almost any answer he needs. (One being a MAMMAL clone of the other) Which makes it even more baffling to see that seemingly, Lil' Judd has taken over the Salmon Run Workstation as a sidehustle.
"There are no talking animals in Splatoon" Judd and Lil Judd: Though, I understand the critiques about Grizz's character and backstory since it's so vague
About the characters not having any purpose--something Octo Expansion does SO well. Marina is actively hacking into Kamabo's system to keep track of 8, and Pearl uses her wealth to give 8 extra cash with the help of Marina. 3 saves 8 from the blender and gets to be a bossfight, Marina uses her tech and Pearl uses her voice to help you out during the final boss, in fact final boss is just you covering the statue so Pearl and Marina can have a chance to beat it. There's never a moment you ask "why are they just standing there" This is an issue in 2, but it's heavily exacerbated in 3 when the Squid Sisters, 3 and Deep Cut are standing around doing absolutely nothing for most of the story (until DC gives you a space suit out of nowhere and the Calamari Inkantion magically turns Smallfry into a Kaiju) (Also it's funny you didn't even mention there's absolutely no discussion about how the player and the idols have been collecting eggs for Grizz and Smallfry gets no dialogue or backstory)
Cosmic strikes again with another god-tier video. a major reason I havent made a video on ROTM myself is for the very reason you said towards the end: I didn't want to make an overly negative video. people have been treating me like an idiot for having been "so sure" Grizz wasn't gonna be a bear (I never claimed I was certain, I just didn't want it mainly because too-obvious bear imagery seemed like a perfect red herring, among other reasons). Or that they think "bear=bad" is my only opinion on Grizz, and that I am stupid for not seeing the potential in Grizz's story, based on my live reaction from a 13-hour-straight gaming session. I posted my reaction because I think it's funny (and it still is LOL), but the amount of genuine condescension and hate that I got from people who could not handle someone on the internet disliking ROTM really turned me off from the idea of wanting to talk about it further. That coupled with it really being a big task to articulate in a digestible way all the issues there are with ROTM. Not just The Bear, but from the lack of explanation for things like the kettles and fuzzy octarians, to the unfocused nonsensical story, to how over the top the finale is, to how half of the characters serve practically no purpose, the sidelining of Octavio...yes there's good points to ROTM, but there's a lot of glaring issues! And my god you covered all of that. hit the nail on the head. Grand slammed. slam dunked. home runned. knocked out of the park. sports. what was I saying. right. 333/10 excellent video. 25:22 is especially SO GOOD. Splatoon's broader themes of its world being a reflection of our own, and by extension, inklings and octolings being a reflection of humanity, the sense of realism in that, and how Grizz's... goofiness... messes with the sense of believably that's been built up in Splatoon's lore. I don't think I'd ever been able to articulate that specific feeling without someone being like "um but this is the talking fish game why is this a problem lol" but again. you nailed it. genuinely thank you for making this video.
I have a question. He didn't want to touch on the tear of revival at 17:48, which is fair enough. The origin of [this] Hugefry being so strange compared to the other King Salmonids (because with Bonerattle Arena now, how can't he be the fifth, including Hizunamasu) is also something I'd rather just look past, because sometimes it's just the best course of action. I don't care about the revival, just the tear (because it theoretically might have been covered before RotM). There's water inside Inklings? I figured where we have water, they'd have ink, no? Actually, to what extent does water dissolve them? Would light or heavy rain spell disaster?
As someone who absolutely loves RotM and everything that it brought (especially the human lore), this video feels like getting thrown into a pool of freezing water, but in a good way. I think it's a good thing to acknowledge all the plot holes and very bad decisions that the devs made. And it sucks that those decisions happened, because as you basically said in the video, we could've had something magnitudes better if a little more thought was put into it. But also, I like that there are plot holes and inconsistent things thrown into the mix, it fits the theme of chaos that the game has, and it allows us, the players to make our own ideas and conclusions to tie everything together. That's where I thinnk the majority of the fun of RotM is, not in everything being told to us, forcing us to use our imagination and make a more coherent story. All in all, great video! Always a blast when you upload! :D
I think something that isn’t addressed in general by the community is how underwhelming deep cut are. I feel like they were clearly supposed to be the “evil” “edgy” group to parallel with off the hook and the squid sisters. Like rough housing brothers and sisters. But I think they got nervous or didn’t want to commit to deep cut being “bad guys”. Working for Grizz for money straight or simply looting for there own gain would have been much better alternatives with potential for characther development and a more closer tie to the setting and themes of anarchy, with maybe even a bit of societal commentary but we didn’t get that and I feel there a lot more underwhelming compared to the other idols. It’s a shame cause their designs rock
I feel like this should have been more of a super science adventure plot. Grrizz Co hires The Octarian Millitary, The New Splatoon, and Deep Cut to explore Alterna with different pretenses and unkown to eachother. They would butt heads inherently, creating all the conflicts already in game and setting up Grizz better as a villian. It would also invite the introduction of greater emphasis on the idea of Grizz being a hyper intelligent bear turned villian. It could have been like an episode of Venture Bros.
I will say, the lore we got in this game regarding humanity and discovering how it tragically fell legitimately gave me a sick feeling in my stomach. Like seriously, reading about how the pilots on the Arc were just left to drift aimlessly around earth and slowly die while the others eventually perished in the crash was really disturbing, like just imagining Grizz waking up to see the carnage of thousands of humans is really fricked up, and gives more believability to his motives, imo. Not to mention the way the logs describe how all humans in Alterna were either buried alive or just completely gave up is extremely sad, like legit I didn’t expect this lore to rock me to my core like that. Honestly I think part of the reason why I found it so disturbing is because the story feels a little too plausible. Like if there was no God, then a form of this carnage would most definitely be in our future. So yeah, while I definitely agree with a lot of your points on how the game’s actual story wasn’t presented too well, I think the behind-the-scenes-lore made up for it, for me at least. I just have a big thing for games with a cutesy exterior but extremely messed up lore underneath, a big reason why Kirby and Splatoon are my 1st and 3rd favorite game series of all time. (2nd is FNAF for similarly obvious reasons)😅
The Alternan lore was definitely executed well, and I have a lot more positive things to say about it than I could get to in this video. I just wish the rest of the game actually integrated it into the narrative. Grizz speaking about the Alternans would have made the weight of their death more meaningful to the characters and story we see play out in the present day
I’m an avid Splatoon lore nut and competitive player; all my friends keep making fun of me for not having finished it, but I watched the ending and was not motivated in the slightest to save inkopolis. You articulate why well.
If you get Salmonid power eggs for beating the tests… do you think Mr Grizz was the one who elaborated the tests? To keep us from getting to him? Grizz is heavily tied with Alterna, he does have what appears to be a level of technical skill, given the fact he jet starts a space ship and supposedly designed the Grizzco weapons. Maybe through using his fuzzy ink on octarians he was able to make them give octarian devices like the kettles…? I’m mostly hypothesizing here, cuz there’s still the question on why grizz would give you power eggs in the first place, and the treasure thing. Idk lol
It definitely seems like Grizz would be aware of the Alternan tests. I have no idea why the tests provide Power Eggs, though. The salmonids didn't exist during the time of the humans, so we don't know why ORCA has them, and we don't know if ORCA and Grizz have interacted with one another. I'd love to see a theory that finds a way to make sense of it all, but it really just doesn't add up
@@TheCosmicCloud i think what hes asking is what if grizz id the reason theyre there, along with all the other test elements. Orca knows who he is, meaning he likely entered that information willingly. While its not stated anywhere, maybe those tests were made to test fuzzy ooze test subjects?
The tests provide powers eggs as rewards. Said eggs are used to clear the ooze. The tests aren't keeping us from grizz, they're helping us get to him by making it easier to explore alterna
@@TheCosmicClouddude, use your imagination. Mr Grizz has been down here rebuilding the rocket for decades for his plan. He’s been experimenting with the ooze and on octoling life forms to perfect it. Why is it such a far leap of logic that he had a hand in the test chambers being altered in their parameters and designed off octarian tech when he’s USING Octarians in his experiments???
im pretty sure that the ooze is an extension of mister grizz himself, remember that that thing is alive and you can see at the start of the game how it grab cuttlefish in specific and how it would grab the main character whenever we get close to it
Personally I think that the reason Mr. Grizz is suddenly very intelligient is for the same reasons JUDD is intelligient They both went through nearly 12000 years of cryosleep each, Judd even more since he was there seemingly from the genesis of turf wars. Im guessing being asleep for such a long time simply develops the mind to unnatural standards due to how long a lifespan 12000 is, even if you weren't doing anything but sleeping during it. They are similar in a bunch of ways to solidify this theory further, as both can communicate with inklings in a langnuage they understand while also not moving their mouths. Judd is a confirmed telepath so it wouldn't be too far-fetched to consider Grizz a telepath too. Granted, none of this explains how Grizz understood rocket science so well, or why lil' judd is on the same level of intelligience as judd despite only being a couple of years old, but I think Grizz's intelligience does make sense in the confines of what has already been established ROTM is still flawed im not saying this SAVES it, but I think its a neat observation that I haven't seen brought up elsewhere
yeah all these complaints about why Mr Grizz is a talking, cartoonish bear while Judd and Lil Judd are RIGHT THERE acting even MORE anthro and cartoony than Mr Grizz
@@sarafontanini7051 along with Splatoon just inherently being a silly series overall lol NOT a reason to validate how ROTM was handled of course, but it was inevitable they were gonna get sillier with it
Splatoon 3's story definitely dropped the ball a little, but I have to appreciate the "improvements" to Splatoon's general outline to stories is in this game, the extra lore from the Alterna logs(even if it was mid), more cutscenes, a more interesting hubworld, more interesting level design, the upgrade system for the gear, a flashy climactic boss(even if it was half baked) are all things I think they def have improved on, there's still a lot to work on, so hopefully in the next game they can write an even better story and maybe flesh out Mr.Grizz a bit more if they have the time, because I also equally went insane when I found out he literally looks like a bear from animal crossing.
This video put into perspective some feelings I had towards Return of the Mammalians. For starters, I was happy with Return of the Mammalians. I fell in love with Splatoon for the great lore, yes, but also for the details regarding the small parts of the world, the overarching themes of identity and cooperation, the sense of community and belonging and, most importantly, because it's really fun, both in terms of gameplay, but also presentation! And Return of the Mammalians had enough of that, that I was happy with it. But in my head, I always kind of distanced it from the other story modes in the series and I think this video expresses well why. Splatoon 3 has clearly shown that it's meant to be a celebration of Splatoon so far. Nearly all major characters return, we learn about life as one of the longest surviving humans, we learnt how the many creatures of the world actually came to be, we can play from all 3 hubs, the whole of GrandFest is just celebrating the series so far and, most relevant to this topic, Return of the Mammalians is the end of the saga. But I don't think it was meant to be. Return of the Mammalians felt like it was meant to be the start of a new story or a standalone story. But then, the idea of it being 'the climactic end of a saga' arose, and it lost a lot of its identity and story for references, call-backs and spectacle. I kind of always saw Return of the Mammalians as a new story with various vague ties back to the old stories, and I reckon that's the problem. A lot of Return of the Mammalians' issues, stem from its identity issue. It wanted to be a brand new story, but was forced to represent everything the series was meant to be up until it... So it kind of lacks in both. It's the kind of story where I could see a Side Order-esque lore dump in the future expanding a lot on it, and giving it a lot of the identity it was meant to have. I still really like Return of the Mammalians, except while I do love many aspects of it, I recognise where it falls flat and what the problems with it are.
if i could have changed anything about the alterna logs, i would have made the squid transformation thing happen BEFORE humanity was wiped out completely. not sure how, i would think maybe through toxicity in the water or something, but i think it would make more sense timeline-wise, and would explain the inkling/octoling specific tests in alterna. if the scientists saw this new life form growing right in front of their eyes, they would take them in and test them. which could also lead to why inkling society ended up being so similar to human society, because that’s technically where the first inklings grew up, etc etc. is this convoluted and a bit silly? yes. but i think it would be neat.
My biggest gripes were just how Deep Cut got shafted completely and how dissatisfying Mr Grizz was as an antagonist that had been built up from S2. And while it was sorta cool to learn about the complete link between humanity and how ink-kind came to be, deep down, I think I would have preferred more focus on character-work for the actual living characters like in Octo Expansion - rather than meticulously trying to explain how and why ink-kind are so similar to humanity. I feel the Squid Sisters should have been cut entirely. Their sole relevance was just to introduce new players to them, and to sing the Calamri Inkantation - which could easily have been brought back by Shiver, an octoling, for how and why she was freed and got to where she is. For sweeping changes, Mr Grizz could have been the tutorial and guiding voice motivating/luring the player into Alterna to convert them into a mammalian, or rope them into his schemes. Deep Cut would appear in search of missing inklings and octolings reported in the area, and after witnessing you doing shady stuff in each area under Grizz's orders, take you on to bring you to justice or something. For a singleplayer campaign which involves an antagonist who also serves as the talking guide in the PVE mode though, part of me wishes there was a bit more integration between these two things too - like Deep Cut trying to hijack a helicopter after a victory to see where golden eggs are taken to or something somehow.
Freed? Unless I am mistaken, from what I understand of the lore, the whole conflict of the Octarians and Inklings seems to be focused in the lands of Inkadia. The Splatlands seem to have no knowledge of the Great Turf War and there are indications that Inklings and Octolings of the Splatlands have been co-existing for centuries. What with the clans that Shiver, Frye, and Big Man hailed from.
@@AuraNova26Exactly. The Splatlands didn't take part in the war and so never had a divide between species. Instead, they had a flood that almost killed everyone. Which kinda explained that God exists?? But anyways, it's something that puts the Octo/Inkling conflict into perspective and makes it all the more realistic. It's especially funny because Shiver is like in an important family in the Splatlands that also takes care of the Splatfests so she's the complete opposite of how we conceived Octolings!
This video really made me realize just how flawed the story of s3's singleplayer really is, I enjoyed it on my first playthrough and I'd still say I enjoyed the story beats but I couldn't help but feel something was missing
this is the second video i’ve seen from your channel, the first being “what it means to be human” from splatoon, and i can confidently say your content routinely delivers!! your videos are amazing, keep it up!! ^^
I feel RotM needed one or two more rewrites and it would have been great. Just having small fixes like the test rooms were made by Mr. Grizz to see if Fuzzy Inkfish could survive and function, as there is no reason to waste all this time if everyone would die. Include some challenging fuzzy inklings to fight along side the fully formed octorians to show Mr. Grizz was a menace to all his potential workers. Maybe have a scroll stating after loss of leadership (Tartar) Kamabo Co was bought by Grizz Co to explain how he got access to this type of stuff. Because the stuff about humans being so desperate to see the sun, so much so their wishes bleed into the earth and live on in all sea life is amazing and I love it. I even like the over the top fight, showing all three sections of Splatoon, story mode with Octovio, Salmon Run with Little Buddy and PvP with Neo 3, working together to beat past sins to create a new future. (I also like the possible darker themes of predatory bosses with Mr. Grizz, although I know Nintendo would never look at fan ideas like "Bears do eat squids") Luckily though, I am a sucker for overal fun so I enjoyed the game play a lot
one of the reasons i liked mr. grizz's reveal so much is because it was something that i had called so many years ago even before splatoon 3's announcement. it felt so satisfying to get a part of the story right.
I feel the last 5 minutes of the conflict section boils down your complains very well, and made me understand better how I feel about the disappointing parts of RotM. I personally have never felt too weirded out by Grizz being a bear, even after being fully invested on the lore of the series, and I feel your issues with Grizz are ones I can understand better than the issues other people have (which is not to say they are wrong just because I have a harder time understanding btw). I think the worst part for me is the characters being all over the place without much a purpose to them, I really, really enjoy when characters all have a clear role and significance to the story or plot, and is sad to see how this story could've worked better without a lot of them, especially when "essential" characters like cuttlefish really don't have any explanation as to why they are so essential, even though I can see why the New Squidbeak Splatoon is involved, since I find the need for the great zapfish believable. Even though this is the case, I really enjoy this story mode for reasons, I really enjoy the overworld, and I had a lot of fun trying to paint whole areas, plus having very interesting level concepts, I really enjoy the gameplay of Splatoon, at an almost equal level than lore, story and art, each of them complimenting my love for the other, I just really love Splatoon as a whole, even in a campaign that felt so lacking for many veterans, it was something I enjoyed playing a lot, and I have a hard time thinking back to it's issues heheheh. I really like it when people find the time to explain their issues with Splatoon in a way I struggle with! I still love the maps for the background details and setting, but there exist issues that you have expressed that I would have a hard time talking about in the same way simply because it doesn't bother me as much, but I'm also an artist, I also find value in the map itself cohesive stylistically, and the same goes for a lot of the issues for RotM, many of them don't bother me as much, but I still want to see this series be elevated to the heights I think it deserves, because Splatoon is really good and I want for it to be better, yipee! yeah! cool game.
said what? there’s more than one thing being said in the video. or did you just come here to post this to add to the negativity because that’s all you’re interested in.
Honestly I'm not as disappointed with grizz as some other people. Like the whole thing about "It was so obvious he was a bear" was the point imo, it was (admittedly, a little too obvious) foreshadowing. Like similarly to how they hinted it was Callie talking to you in the radio at the end of the s2 boss fights, iirc. As for why he can do rocket science n stuff, they could somewhat easily use a similar explanation as why squids evolved so quickly. Something something the human ideas and consciousness made him smarter, something something. Why would Mr Grizz need a red herring anyway, most inklings probably don't know what a grizzly bear is, for all they care it's just a cool name inspired by a dead animal. Overall good video though, I agree with most of what you said! I do wish the characters were fleshed out more, and that octavio did more than show up, die, and help save the world at the end.
the only reason people en masse have a problem with grizz being a bear is because a small handful of the largest splatoon content creators on the english speaking side of the internet said they didn’t like it. 100%.
I think why it was a bit underwelming is because they are going to build on it, cuz i rember being a kd in splatoon 1 and the lore building was AMAZING but we didn't have enough for the full picture. Maybe thats what is goin on with the mammalians. And i do agree, anythin can be improved on, but overall imo and im sure u agree but the splatoon games and lore and charatcers r pretyy GREAAATTT, unique, and r a breath of freash air with personality and charm!
i think they couldve just done: neo 3 is interested in octarians and wants to learn about them, sees a poster or whatever for the rock area, fights them, mini boss is deep cut instead of dj octavio, they fall, deep cut helps neo 3 instead of squid sisters, and deep cut wants to take mr grizz down because he is a capitalist or something idk
the biggest ??? I've got with the motivations of Mr. Grizz is... We've got 2* Cats? & those Cats are very Public? He's not the last Mammal at all; There might already be a bunch of characters involved, but even just a 'they are not enough' would have helped;
We got baited so hard by them showing the Judd scroll in the ROTM trailer only for it to not matter at all. It really does feel like they should have at least been acknowledged
I would've loved if, when grizz first awoke on earth, he actively seeked out Judd to try and find solace in someone, but Judds nonchalantless about the extinction of mammals made grizz furious and spurred his quest to resurrect them. A sort of duality between the two, where grizz cares too much about mammals, and Judd cares too little.
I feel that plays into it hoenstly. Mr Grizz was SO obsessed with bringing back the status quo he couldn't be content with sharing the title of "last mammal" with two cats, because that's still not enough for him. Its all part of how he's glorifying a past he barely knows anything about and how he's denying the present day.
@@sarafontanini7051 The issue is that, like most things in ROTM, that’s an interesting idea on paper, but nothing in the game actually suggests that is how Grizz feels. It would have been a cool idea to include, and it works as a headcanon, but it is not something expressed by the game itself
26:14 no… you’re skimming over established Splatoon lore. Judd and Lil Judd can talk. There was no millions of years of evolution that granted them that power. They just can do it after hyper sleep. Which Grizz also undergoes to a degree. There’s nothing wrong with Grizz being able to talk.
I've addressed the Judds in a number of other comments already. In short, I don't think cryosleep is a good explanation for ANY of those characters being able to talk. Judd is a minor character whose existence is a remnant from when the game was about rabbits, and while he has been worked into the canon of the game, he essentially serves as a tutorial and a UI element. Grizz is the main antagonist of the game, and as such I think it makes sense to hold his backstory to a higher standard. If anything, I think ROTM should have told us why Grizz can talk and ALSO why the Judds can talk, as their intelligence is one thing that has always been overlooked by the lore. I get that you're saying I'm holding a double standard, but that's because Grizz is a significantly more important character than Judd; in my opinion, his lore matters more.
@@TheCosmicCloud “minor character?” Judd judges the results of EVERY TURF GAME YOU PLAY. That’s not minor. He’s incredibly important to the overall gameplay narrative! Now you’re just pick and choosing what you want to be important. Judd has been there since day 1. His backstory is the reason Turf battles even function in-universe of the game. He’s there for every match you play. Sunken scrolls talk about his significance in the great turf war. He’s no less significant than Sheldon is. You can’t take all that and go “oh he’s a minor character.” The problem isn’t the lore, the problem is you don’t want to engage with the lore.
@@jimlight5137 I guess it’s a matter of opinion? I would not say Judd is important to the narrative. He’s a part of the game’s multiplayer, and has some lore tying him to the humans and the professor, but he is largely unexplored as an actual character. Narrative is not the same thing as worldbuilding. He has not contributed to any particular Splatoon story at all
@@TheCosmicCloudI’m just flabbergasted by all this. I do not understand you. Because you’re supposed to be all about the lore, and then you’re just dismissive of anything that doesn’t interest you within said lore. Like, Judd was part of the great turf wars. His whole ability to determine the outcome of a turf battle at a glance is not only the explanation for how the multiplayer campaigns work, but it’s also the reason the inkling society by and large isn’t KILLING each other anymore because now they can engage in friendly battles instead of waging wars! He is technically revered as a GOD by the inklings! Lore-wise Judd is VERY important to the word building of Splatoon. Like I’m not trying to be facetious here… you don’t have to care much about Judd… but you should be able to recognize that he’s a big part of the history and lore that make up the games. Every piece of detail about characters or events in the story is part of the world building. That’s why Splatoon has such a RICH world to explore! I do not understand why you seem to choose to ignore parts of the world build and dismiss it as not as important as others when it’s all contributing to the same overall tapestry.
28:47 lil Judd and Judd can TALK. They didn’t do anything differently either than be cryogenically frozen. If that works for why they can talk in Splatoon 1, why doesn’t it work for Grizz in Splatoon 3? Stop ignoring established lore to complain!
This video mentions a lot of the issues I had with ROTM, but I was one of those who weren't bothered at all by the Mr. Grizz reveal. In fact, it was maybe my favourite moment in the campaign. Personally, I had never even heard of the "not-actually-a-bear" theory (which I imagine is the case for most of the fandom), so there was no disappointment from that. The shock and amusement came from the fact that this 'deep voiced grizzly owner of a shady business', who had brutally kidnapped cuttlefish, who was the final enemy of the story mode, looked like a cute bear. I almost feel like such a diversion of expectations, Mr. Grizz actually being a marine creature, would've mostly just been confusing, and even disappointing, to most fans. I always wondered how a bear could still exist in this world, and the story gave me an satisfying yet sad answer to that. I had never considered how it would feel to be the only bear left in the world, yet it made perfect sense in retrospect, in the sense of his motivations. While I think the story had quite a few unsatisfying plotholes and unexplained things, I don't feel like Mr. Grizz was one of them. The possibility of a mammal surviving/existing was established with Judd (as rare as it was), and the intelligence aspect to me felt like the same case as with inklings and octolings, especially since that was clearly stated and explained in the story mode moments prior. In my understanding, Mr. Grizz inherited the will and dreams of the scientists, hence why he was so smart, and partially why he wanted to so desperately return mammalian life to earth (other than his extremely depressing circumstances). At least, that's how I understood it while playing. I feel like the end message was about unity and understanding of different beings. Of seeing past our differences? The human will and spirit? Something like that. I do feel like the story was originally maybe meant to be a little different, but ultimately it was then made to be mostly understandable to most casual and even newer players, which is what I think they prioritized. And I enjoyed it. It didn't break my immersion whatsoever, since the possibility of a bear existing was well established already in splatoon 2. ORCA was probably my biggest disappointment, but I quite enjoyed the Mr. Grizz storyline, from someone who played a lot of salmon run in splatoon 2, and wondered what was up with him. The ambiguity was fine to me too, but I understand how it could've been frustrating. I only wished all the different story aspects were more connected. -Opinion of a casual lore enthusiast.
I've seen a few comments defending Grizz that all have different explanations for how he became intelligent, which I think demonstrates the exact problem I have with his backstory. Grizz's intelligence is an integral part of his character; I don't think it should be something we should have to make guesses or theories about. I totally understand that it can be fun to fill in the details with your own ideas---it's a huge reason I love the other games so much. But with ROTM, I really feel like we needed more solid information than what we were given, especially in terms of Grizz. A bear *existing* is fine, but for that bear to be sapient and able to speak is a whole other story
@@TheCosmicCloud I suppose that's just ultimately a matter of different preference. The ambiguity in that aspect doesn't bother me, but I can understand why it could, especially since this was meant to be an ending to a trilogy. I would've liked a more conclusive information, but, again, it didn't negatively effect my gameplay experience. That being said, and I forgot to say this in my original comment, but I greatly enjoyed this video! It was very interesting and gave me an different view. I immediately went to check out your other videos, and it's good stuff. Excitedly await your side order video!
i finally get why return of the mamalians felt so... weird to me! there are so many details lost in the cracks in a franchise i adore most for its attention to detail. unlike questions like "who made this specific graffiti sticker?" the questions raised but not answered in RotM are much bigger and right at the forefront of the plot, characters, setting, history, and all... i wonder if we really will get some answers in the future. will they be good answers?
This video was able to explain a lot of my issues with the story and characters of Splatoon 3 in a way that I never really could on my own, but I feel like a lot of these issues stem from the fact that Return of the Mammalians has the responsibility of being a finale to this first saga in the Splatoon series. Like you said, the story is at its best when focused on fleshing out its original content, namely Alterna and Mr. Grizz-- but because this is the bow that's tying the whole trilogy together it feels like it NEEDS to include more. It needs to have every character from the past two story modes (plus Agent 3) because they've always been here, and Deep Cut needs to be here for... reasons? Because every idol has a part in a story mode, and the DLC is about Off the Hook? In any case, it pulls attention away from the new stuff, and can end up making it feel unfinished. Part of why I'm personally already excited for Splatoon 4 is because, assuming it is in fact the start of a new saga, I'm interested to see what the writers can do with fresh ideas, and a fresh batch of characters
Absolutely. Like I mentioned in the video, Octo Expansion felt like the "true" end of the saga to me, so I really wish ROTM wasn't held back by trying to fill that role. I'm super excited to see what they do next now that they have the opportunity for a fresh start!
The reason why you're excited for Splatoon 4 is why I dread it. It's supposed to be the beginning of a new saga, and discard all the previous characters. But I just can't stomach that, because the supposed grand send-off to this saga was so severely botched that it can't end here in any satisfying manner.
@@WretchedRedoran I don't think they're going to completely discard the old characters; in fact, I don't want them to either, since that would go against Splatoon's great sense of continuity. I'd love for old characters to still come back as side characters and cameos, but I'd also like the next game to have a story mode that uses newer, or even entirely original characters, and doesn't feel the need to shoehorn in all of the same characters we've been seeing since Splatoon 1 like Rise of the Mammalians did
It's just the fact there are so many other story elements that already existed that could have explained his intelligence better. We could have been told that the humans were scared about going extinct and began conducting strange experiments to implant human intelligence in animals. We could have been told that Mr. Grizz absorbed the liquid crystals and was guided by the passive desires of the Alternans. Instead, we're told he was awake while he was sleeping. Beyond the fact that it logistically just... doesn't make sense, even if I were to suspend my disbelief about that particular detail, it feels like there were so many better ways they could have gone about it
@@TheCosmicCloud I dunno, I think it made sense. Lucid dreaming is a thing, sleep paralysis is a thing, the line between dreaming and wakefulness are a lot blurrier than people think. 12,000 years trapped in your own head is bound to radically change a brain
@@Shinntoku But would it change it for the better? I struggle to see how a bear trapped in one room would be able to learn complex thought and *language* of all things. Obviously we aren’t meant to think about the specifics, but it just feels like a lame answer to what could have been a much more interesting and logically sound backstory
@@TheCosmicCloud I just think all the pieces add up without needing a more detailed explanation. Mr. Grizz was experimented on and then spent 12,000 years trapped in cryosleep while still being conscious and that's the exact scifi recipe I would expect to result in a hyper intellegent animal. Also I don't think it was necessarily a change for the better, Mr. Grizz was unable to accept the change in the world until the very end, and prior to that he was essentially just imitating the humans that raised him, performing experiments on himself and trying to return mammals to the globe
Honestly my main problem with return of the mammalians is that smallfry is just… never explained??? Why does new agent 3 have it?? Why does no one question us having it?? Where did he come from? Is he a pet? Why does he evolve at the final boss?? Like literally what is going on with little buddy
in an interview sometime around the time of the first fresh season they said smallfry has some relation to the junk that agent 3 was profiting from and somewhere along the line they helped eachother out or something.
Can’t say I expected a 40 minute video talking about how much they don’t like Return of the Mammalians to convince me that this is my favourite Splatoon story mode, even after experiencing all of them over the years. And I have to say I’m impressed that Mr Grizz’s reveal was the biggest fakeout I’ve ever seen. It was a double fakeout where they put up so many signs hinting towards him being a bear yet refusing to show his identity to convince people he wasn’t a bear, all to make the big reveal that the wooden bear is in fact a bear all the more surprising. 10/10 the devs will never let somebody say “I expected this”
Biggest issue is that the main war between Inks & Octs was mostly wrapped up by the end of Splatoon 2's side story. They couldn't use any of that material again, without backpedalling alot of the first two games. Meaning they had to introduce new elements for Splatoon 3 to work. A new villain, with new motives but keeping all the formula of levels, bosses, etc. Two choices: 1.) Introduce a new party which was never mentioned before now and try to shoehorn them into the established lore and plot. 2.) Take from the lore of humanity's extinction to build into a threat, which was lying in wait for Splatoon 3 to strike. Grizz is the best case scenario, outside of having actual humans show up. He's atleast thematically tied to the lore and themes of the series but you're right in that none of the other characters have any motivation beyond protect the status quo. There's no meaningful connection because Grizz's character is based entirely in lore and secrets, which nobody else as reason to interact with.
I feel like the devs were like, “you know what, this would be funny” for like every part of this. One of the devs: “hear me out small fry becomes big fry.” Nogami: “YES give him a raise.”
i feel like i might be missing a part that has to do with your frustration with Grizz. sure, he has an uncharacteristically cartoony design compared to the game's style, and there's no explanation for why he's smart and can talk... but can't that all also be said for Judd? he's a cat. he was made immortal, but nothing i can recall was injected into him called "have human intelligence and also talk" juice.
The difference for me is that Judd is not a main character. I DO wish Judd had a better explanation for his intelligence, but it's easier to overlook when it's a minor tutorial character who has no relevance to the game's narrative. Mr. Grizz is the main antagonist of Splatoon 3, so I would expect his backstory to be more thought-out and clearly communicated. If anything, this would have been the perfect opportunity to explain Judd as well, but the game does neither
I always have been iffy about Splatoon 3's story and its characters, and for the longest time I couldn't point out why that was. After watching this I could definitely see why that was the case. Splatoon 3's story could've easily been atleast one of the best campaigns if they put just the SLIGHTEST bit of effort into the story and actually making it make sense. One of my favorite things about Splatoon is how they made such obsurd things like talking sentient squids shooting ink make sense and actually be interesting, but in Splatoon 3 it feels like they didn't try at all.
Here's what i saw about splatoon places on story mode Splatoon 1: in Octo valley areas look like skateboard 🛹 area. And half of the areas are floating. All of them are floating in one location. Not anywhere on ground or even on undergrounds. Plus the ufo that is floating on final level sends you up in space like space station place. Or somewhere. This place is literally confusing as we're floating in middle of areas. Splatoon 2: not as big as first one on octo canyon. Small places around to walk. But on cephalon HQ you're on like a sea of murky paint that looks polluted and poisoning. Then we go underground for real on final boss that is different from the crater. Could've added a legit fortress or underground base like. But nope. Stickers and new deco didn't spice anything up for octarians. Splatoon 3: Finally some place to explore on crater where we go down and such. But sadly we can't go anywhere else on crater but down and deep down. Alterna is good and all but half of the areas are sunken and some are still lingering. None of the places have any purpose to explore or understand 😕 what will happen next. Cuz most of the area is covered in cold ice and cold water far away. And we can see the broken tv like cieling. Worst of all? No sign of "Mammalians" to exist at all or even being called. I won't even add mr grizz since he's one of the only mammal. If anything rabbits should've been Mammalians army. Just like how kirby and forgotten land made their own Mammalians for real The Beast Pack. Splatoon has been focusing on parties and events yet they didn't add anything more adventurous and world wide exploration. Its like you're in one whole region and that's it. Nowhere else. No other regions to explore. Plus they only add 4 bosses every game. I want more bosses and tougher ones and i want us to pick our own weapons/subs/specials that isn't DLC like or cost worth.
I was skeptical when i clicked but I totally understand and even agree with you. Big Fry and Grizz and the lack of explanation of the levels bugged me but it took you putting it into words for me to finally get it.
I’ve been saying this forever and people shat on me for it, I could never put into exact definition what made splatoon 3’s narrative more disappointing than the first two games but suspension of disbelief nails it I think.
Randomly telling us it was Grizz all along and then delivering all the lore through the logs and in After Alterna, was an insult. Splatoon lore has so much potential but it gets wasted like this
The story of RotM proved to me that the development of the Splatoon series is torn between two directions: one wants the series to appeal to kids and therefore relies on zany spectacle, while the other wants the series to also appeal to adults and therefore takes the worldbuilding of the universe very seriously. It seems to be the former that takes priority, though, and in RotM in particular, it just didn't care about being consistent with the internal logic; it just slapped some set pieces on the table and left the "serious" team to fill in the blanks. Also, for some reason, the serious team prioritized explaining how sea life evolved to become humanoid, something that most people invested in the series had already accepted since the first game. Don't get me wrong, it was nice to see a more definitive explanation that covered a few existing holes, but maybe they should have focused more on the immediate story.
Hi, I'm the guy with the funny name "M. Grizz son" who was in Cosmic recents live and as you can imagine, Grizz is my favorite Splatoon antagonist as well as one of my obsessions and I too would like to give my opinion on it since I'm also a lore obsessed guy. So I'm going to try to be concise because when I develop too much I tend to get distracted. We'll start with something simple. Octo expansion have to the best story of Splatoon and I doubt that will ever change. The developers clearly went deep into the story for this DLC after all it's a DLC that made us play our "sworn enemies" And I'm also going to be honest but I consider that the main story of Splatoon is It's over with Octo expansion. I really had a hard time seeing what could be added. What ELSE could we tell with this story so obviously my personal expectation for the story mode of Splatoon 3 was that the story uses elements that relate more to the world before. After all, it's our world but after a 5th world war. I was also one of those who found it "too easy" that Inklings and Octolings were like that because "natural evolution" And following the announcement of the story mode which confirms to us that history will teach us about their origins. Translation:Scroll which will teach us more about their origins and I was excited because it also meant different things. Obviously I was expecting returning characters and I have absolutely no problem with that since that's not what I expected from the story mode. Let's talk about Alterna's logs and what I think of them. I'm not going to lie...It was really depressing and several times I felt sad and generally unwell. And that was what I wanted. I got the explanation I needed. Then there's Mr. Grizz. I much prefer Mr. Grizz to Tartar. And yes I know that they have similarities but there are huge nuances and these are nuances that are often ignored and that annoys me because it means that Mr. Grizz is very often mischaracterized. Tartar wanted to DESTROY EVERYTHING to rebuild everything with HIS vision of the world and the perfect species. Heck Tartar despises the Inklings because their way of having fun disgusts him even though they managed to transform something horrible (the "war") into something fun and harmless (turf war). Tartar couldn't stand that the Inklings were so different from humans and ended up getting it in his head that he had to recreate it better. Tartar is by far the character I hate the most in Splatoon (And it's not even to be mean, on the contrary hated an antagonist is almost normal for me it just means that the devs did a good job. And if people like him it's good too because they have their writing etc. Just I hope you don't validate his actions) Then there's Grizz. First of all, I absolutely loved the fact that Grizz was a bear for 2 reasons 1:It added a lot of realism to the end of humanity because let's be real,if we where about to disappeared we would have saved animal species to recreate our ecosystem also it makes things more believeable because I can accept everything in the present with the Inklings but for the backstory which is that this is OUR world,I'm more I'm a little more picky. Then the fact that just our fashion style and music is what was there would have been really ridiculous. Having Grizz be a Bear who is also a Bear from one of humanity last hope mission made the world much more credible and coherent 2:I was one of 4 people who doubted that Grizz was a bear since the begining Likewise I love Grizz's appearance. His grotesque appearance is once again consistent. I think we can all agree that being alive for 12,000 years is going to have some weird side effects (even more so for an animal) and an important detail is the fact that he didn't just create the Fuzzy ooze. HE IS Fuzzy ooze. And his appearance still has to do with that. We have seen that the Fuzzy ooze has particular effects on Octarians and Octoling/Inkling so knowing that and that Grizz created the Fuzzy ooze with his OWN FUR and that he is literally covered of it,so his appearance is once again logical. Even,honestly,more coherent than that of Tartar at the end of Octo Expansion (Which is just him but with weird ink on his head) And obviously his plan. On paper it seems identical to Tartar's plan but in reality they are totally different. Grizz wants to recreate the world he knew but doesn't want to destroy anything on the contrary he doesn't even hate Inklings and Octolings. They even seem to respect them a lot and even appreciate them as we can see from his dialogue in Grizz co in Splatoon 3 (Yes I know that these are pre-recorded voices but precisely. Who recorded them? Mr. Grizz) Fuzzy ooze actually only transforms cephalopods into mammals. And even its creation is less fucked up than Tartar's Sanitize ink thingy. And when you think about it, each antagonist of Splatoon has a connection with the past Octavio wants revenge for his defeat against the Inklings far too long ago and then against squidbick Splatoon in Splat 2 Tartar is so disgusted by the current world that he wants to recreate the past world but more "perfect" And finally Mr. Grizz, the last of his species who finds himself in a land completely different from what he had known. Then after more than 12,000 dreams and this deterioration he ended up having a better intelligence and wanting to recreate a world similar to another time. A world where these like were present. But he never showed any real hatred for the world, all Grizz wanted was just to feel like he belonged. And even contrary to Tartar, he finally realized and accepted that it was impossible and that the current world will have a much better future. I do not validate Grizz's actions clearly his plan was NOT a good idea and he is not really a good person but like Octavio he realized his mistake and accepted the future Obviously, as much as I like the story of Splatoon 3 and prefer it to Splatoon 2, I'm not going to pretend that it surpassed it. As I said at the very beginning Octo expansion has a better story and the story of Splat 3 has several gray areas but I am sure that we will end up having all the answers we need one day and that knows. Maybe this explanation will make me love Mr. Grizz even more I hope I managed to be clear and I apologize for any possible mistakes I use google translate
17:14 okay this is getting into bad faith arguments here. The rocket was surrounded by fuzzy ooze. It’s not something we didn’t know existed, we were well aware we couldn’t get there through all that ooze.
@@jimlight5137 We knew that the Ooze existed from the start, but we were never told that it was our goal to make it to the central island. We only knew that we were looking for Cuttlefish, who we understood to NOT be in the rocket. If the characters had agreed that the rocket was our goal from the very start, and explained that as the reason for collecting the treasures, there wouldn’t be a problem. The obstacle just isn’t presented to the player until after the point it would’ve made more sense
@@TheCosmicCloud it’s literally dead center of the map… they’re hope that Cuttlefish might be somewhere easier to get to doesn’t change the fact that he was likely in the middle of the map.
I listened to the soundtrack a while before playing, and the story the soundtrack implies is way cooler than what we got. All the ingredients are there for the coolest Splatoon story ever, yet the execution falls flat.
I am so happy you made this video. CosmicCloud get out of my head. It's such a validating feeling hearing someone having the exact same opinion of you that is typically seen as negative and the lesser opinion. I do wonder how the developers will approach the campaign in 4. I enjoy the formula of side order, but I feel like that formula would evolve better if it returned as a hybrid single-player and multiplayer mode where you run solo or with a team. I personally was getting tired of the mission formula during the latter half of ROTM. There are so many level parts they have compiled over the last 9 years that you do start to see the repetitive nature of these missions. Oh, a level with sponges. A level with ride rails. Oh hey, pop the balloons. Get to the goal etc. I'm just hoping that the level design evolves rather than being iterated on with the next campaign. I want to see the designers go wild and create environments that use all of these 'gimmicks' but together in a much grander way. We've learned these mechanics, let us use our brain at levels that make us go aha! I got to use this ink wheel here etc, rather than the solution being in plain sight. Take a page from the metroid series and craft platforming segments that feel natural. There's got to be a point where the 'glorified tutorial' ends, and I'd argue it has to end much sooner to really get deep into level design that's not just difficult but also satisfying to conquer, with collectables strewn throughout. Anyways- yes the lore absolutely does matter. Splatoon 3 does feel the most 'video gamey'. I also had the same reaction to the mr grizz reveal because it was so painfully obvious and the splatoon series seemed to be avoiding doing the obvious thing since octo expansion was such a shocker an unique experience for me. The reveal that craig cuttlefish was captured by grizz also happens so early into the alterna parts of the campaign that it also hindered my enjoyment. The only remaining mystery was oh god- is he a bear or is he not. Not to mention the lack of fuzzy ooze inside the levels and smallfry-specific levels. Why create this cool feature only to use it in the hub world and... what? 2 levels?? Splatoon is at its best when the level design, lore and story all complement each other. And unfortunately, in my opinion, rotm does not achieve this. It's all spectacle with no mystery. The levels are merely test chambers. Levels. How come there's this giant city in some levels and it's not explained? The contrast between alterna and the chambers is staggering. I'm so tired of this formula of 'let's create this cool BACKGROUND and fill it with floating blocks.' Let alone many assets taken straight from octo expansion. I could literally count the different girders and ramps because I played octo expansion so many times it was frustrating to see these same ideas used again. I wanna end with this last point- 'It was rushed' is such a crappy explanation that I see people use. OK?? that doesn't give it a free 'GOOD' pass. I know game development is a long and arduous task, but MAN. Please I need to feel excited about Splatoon lore again. I was super excited for the splatlands but we got something so minimal. I hope 4 takes place in the splatlands again because I know there's lore there just waiting to be discovered... at least I hope.
I agree entirely. My feelings about ROTM's gameplay are about on par with my feelings toward the story. I talked about this at length in a video already, but every single part of the campaign felt like missed potential. I was super disappointed to not only see ideas reused, but often used in less interesting ways than their original introduction in past games. I'm generally conflicted about where I want the series to go in the future, because I DO like the linear mission structure when it's done well (I still love Splatoon 1's levels), but it does feel like an overhaul is warranted at this point. Whatever they go with, I just hope there will be more thought put into how the aesthetics and gameplay can support one another. Octo Expansion was satisfactory for me, because despite having abstract floating blocks it still managed to create a cohesive vaporwave/ 80s aesthetic that related to the story's themes of nostalgia and introspection. I don't know if fully fleshed out environments will ever be something we see in Splatoon, but I would love to see stages that feel fresh in their design and intentional in their aesthetics.
@@TheCosmicCloud idk if you’ve played any of the 3D Metroid games but they share a lot of similarities to spaltoon. Sci-fi, shooting enemies and platforming and bosses. Idk if you’ve seen the splatoon 3 art book but in the one megalopolis page they showcase the platforms being made up from broken roads and themed to the level background. THIS IDEA WOULD HAVE BEEN SO GOOD??? My problem with the current mission structure is that you have no incentive to replay the stages after you complete them with all the weapons and beating your time. There’s bowsers fury which also could be an interesting format they could take inspiration from but it’s also somewhat done in splatoon with the hub world. Do they expand the hub world to be bigger ? I honestly don’t know. I just want splatoon to wow me again. I want to be invested like I used to be. No joke the crater segment is so cool in ROTM since the environment and the levels are themed together. I feel like rotm is the matter of too many cooks in the kitchen and trying to bring Octo expansion ideas to the campaign. I guess what I want is something truly new. I also agree that splatoon 1’s levels were so memorable. I like how they took ideas like broken buildings and little fortresses full of enemies etc and ever since it’s just been floating platforms. If you haven’t played any of the 3D Metroid games I highly recommend because I so hope splatoon does level design like a metroidvania some day- with the style of mirrors edge. Mirrors edge is closer to spaltoon in style and environment but I hope the level design is closer to metroid some day.
You've articulated a point that's had me tongue-tied since the DLC came out. Thank you for finally putting a point on it- I can see the pieces of a much better story in Splatoon 3, and that's the part that stings the most. Here's hoping that wherever they take the series next, it'll live up to the high expectations previous entries have set up. GO TEAM PRESENT!
OOOOHHHH MY GOD SOMEONE GETS IT ABOUT THE GRIZZ REVEAL. People kept going, “It was so obvious he was a bear, why did you expect anything different?” BECAUSE THE BEAR HINTS WERE LAYERED ON SO THICK THAT I THOUGHT HE *COULDN’T* BE A BEAR. Me five years ago in 2019 thought, “Surely he isn’t a bear, right? They wouldn’t just, spoil Splatoon 3 like that, right?” Yes, past me, yes they would. It feels like genuinely incompetent writing for Mr. Grizz to be a real ass mammalian bear, and nothing will ever change my mind.
I think almost every about Mr grizz as a character would be fixed if he was replaced by a human Like you could still cover the existential elements of being trapped in a world you no longer understand trying desperately to return to the place you once knew. While still having a precedent to exist within the world, hell I’d probably be better than if Mr grizz was executed perfectly since humans have been a part of the world since the very begging and you could almost have an element of this last human passing the torch of humanity onto inkfishkind, plus you can still do other interesting in regards to Mr grizz, perhaps incorporating salmon run more (seriously ROTM grizz has basically nothing to do with salmon run)
Thematically, that might work, but in terms of lore, I'm not so sure. I'm biased due to my own interpretation of the games, but I personally really hope we never see an actual human in Splatoon. Similar to Grizz having cartoony proportions, I feel like seeing an animated human in-person would break the "illusion" of the game's world. For every instance of humans we've seen in Splatoon, they have always been depicted with realistic proportions and features (Shellendorf skeleton, NILS Statue, Alterna photos, etc), which helps to sell the idea that this is not a work of fiction, but our actual future. That dynamic is a huge part of my love for the series, and I don't want it to be damaged any further than it already has been
@@TheCosmicCloud the only way I could really see this working if they were essentially a brain in a jar type villain with a body made of technology and a TV screen face or something of the sort instead of a plain human that would probably clash artistically. Think something like Porky from Earthbound except we can hide the human body within via means like “they’re just a brain” or “they’re in a coffin-like chamber on the back of the machine or “they’re in some weird test tube with their features obscured”.
@@TheCosmicCloud I disagree on the idea that you can’t animate a human without them being cartoony, I mean a simple anime esque style could fit well enough in splatoon’s artstyle and with human anatomy while still being weird and alien in a way Plus throughout the splatoon lore humans are heavily mystified, they are the ancient civilization trope that is responsible for most of the crazy tech the world has and disappeared under mysterious circumstances, actually meeting one and it turns out he’s a total wreck could be a compelling “mask off” moment while also reminding us of what humans really are, complicated messy creatures who act on animalistic instinct as much as we act on reason Though changes would need to be made, I’d imagine this human character wouldn’t be defeated, but rather redeemed, realizing his plan is a folly that will only bring unneeded pain upon the innocent people of this new world and maybe his plan itself would more involve recreating humans (to little success) before attempting to unleash unto the world Idk it’s an idea
16:58 it’s… it’s not “literally no reason.” It’s treasure. They’re bandits. They were trying to steal the treasure. That’s why you fight them. They don’t know or care why you need the treasure.
@@jimlight5137 Yes, Deep Cut wants the treasure. But why do WE want it? We enter the boss kettles hoping to find Cuttlefish. Instead, we find strange objects with no apparent purpose. There is no good reason for the protagonists to collect these items outside of the game knowing that we will need them later. I just think it’s a case of lazy storytelling
@@TheCosmicCloud it’s no less lazy than finding the “thangs.” And there is a reason. We think they might be important, but we can’t tell what they are until we collect them. Signals point to these locations so they must have some value… why wouldn’t we want to see what they are? Why would we just leave mysterious items behind if we’re looking for a way to rescue cuttlefish?
@@jimlight5137 The Thangs have an explicit purpose from the beginning of the story. We may not know exactly what they are, but we know we need them in order to escape to the surface. I personally like that, because it gives the protagonists a clear reason for collecting them while still allowing room for mystery, which is then paid off during the blender construction scene. Comparatively, the treasures just feel like an inexplicable plot device. There is a reason for the blender parts to exist in Kamabo Co; there is no reason for a giant razor to be stored in Alternan vaults. Due to its odd design, it doesn't really work as foreshadowing. Most players will probably just not know what it is until the answer reveals itself anyway. It's simply a less effective use of a similar idea
@@TheCosmicCloud that’s a fair criticism, but a rather weak one in my opinion. You can not think it’s clear enough without resorting to calling it “out of nowhere” or saying “for some reason” a million times. Cuz there IS a reason for its existence. And a razor in an area dominated by hair isn’t that wild of a leap of logic either.
I’m surprised you didn’t compare Mr. Grizz to Judd. They are both bizarre and out-of-place characters, but Judd works while Grizz doesn’t. And Judd proves that Mr. Grizz being a bear *could* have worked, but the execution was sloppy.
It's no surprise that Rassicas hated it (he seems to dislike any idea of Mr. Grizz being a fully developed character, and he’s explained why a few times). I think he expected Mr. Grizz to be human or another Inkling-both incredibly bland and nonsensical ideas, especially given all the buildup around him. Mr. Grizz had been built up in two key ways: 1) as the founder of GrizzCo, which was already clearly a sketchy, small operation moving from one big location to another, with only one boss contacting you through a radio, and 2) as a bear; there was literally so much evidence hinting at this. People were disappointed and acted like it was a random bombshell, but if you were paying attention, you’d already have figured it out. Any other possibility wouldn't have made sense and would’ve been boring and disappointing. It’s like how there’s now a huge setup for Lil Judd to take over GrizzCo; ignoring that just because "they already left clues" would be ridiculous. Of course, the clues they dropped are leading to something real-that's the whole point of foreshadowing.
@@cultoosk While in retrospect it does seem obvious that Mr. Grizz was going to be a bear (at least since the release of the Ruins of Ark Polaris map), I think it was perfectly valid to expect or want Grizz to be something else. Normally if a character obscures their face in a work of fiction, it’s to build a sense of mystery and keep the audience guessing at what their true appearance might be. I was right there with Rassicas in thinking that Grizz could be a number of things, including an existing character or some other kind of evolved sea creature. No one knew for sure what Grizz was going to be, and there’s no reason to be rude or disrespectful toward other people over their feelings or reactions to a game. You aren’t smarter than anyone for thinking Grizz was going to be a bear-that was the most obvious guess anyone could have. Also, Rassicas uses they/them
@@TheCosmicCloud First off, I apologize if I came across as rude toward Rassicas; that wasn't my intention. In a couple of his videos (or streams), he mentioned that he'd prefer if Mr. Grizz were revealed to be human. While I agree it’s possible that there could still be a human left on Earth in Splatoon, I don’t think it would make sense for a human to be behind Mr. Grizz. The point I was trying to make (and I mean this respectfully) is that if Mr. Grizz turned out to be human or an Inkling, as Rassicas suggested, it wouldn’t align with the story because there haven’t been any hints or clues leading to that possibility. My respectful question to Rassicas would be: Why does he think it would be better for Mr. Grizz to be something other than a bear? If Mr. Grizz were revealed to be the last human, an Inkling, or another species, what build-up would logically support that? A plot twist only works if there’s some kind of foreshadowing, and it feels odd to introduce something completely random without any buildup. I'd also like to hear why you think it could’ve played out differently or what other outcome you might’ve liked or thought made sense for Mr. Grizz.
@@cultoosk To be honest, a lot of people were hoping that Grizz would not be the antagonist of Splatoon 3 at all. I remember thinking it would be unfortunate to unveil his true identity just one game after his introduction, when he could have been built up across a longer period of time and given more time to develop BEFORE his big reveal. In a perfect world, there would have only been hints of Grizz's identity scattered throughout Splatoon 3, while his actual in-person appearance would come some time in the future. Of course, with the reveal of ROTM, many people believed Grizz was going to be involved. It was easily assumed that he might be the one attempting to bring back the mammals, but we didn't have any confirmation that HE was a mammal himself. Grizz likely knew of the Ark Polaris bear, but that didn't have to mean he WAS the bear. And the bear radio would make a lot more sense if he wasn't obscuring his appearance through a device that... shares his appearance. While there wasn't any solid evidence of him being something *other* than a bear, it was left vague enough that he could have been *anything.* Some people wanted to see a sea creature scientist who was obsessed with the mammals of the past. Some people thought it could be an AI remnant of the humans like Commander Tartar. Others thought Grizzco could have connections to Lil'Judd, DJ Octavio, or the Professor. There was no reason to think any of these options *couldn't* happen, and it felt like the developers *wanted* us to speculate about Grizz's identity. The AI/ prerecorded voice idea is actually something that was hinted at in a dev interview, which is why many people now believe that is how Grizzco functions after the events of ROTM. These kinds of teases from the developers got people excited about all of the possibilities of what Grizz could be. It's not so much that the evidence was already there, but the potential was. Grizz could have dropped hints throughout Splatoon 3's story itself to make the reveal less random (something I think they should have done even with him being a bear). While it may have not been directly foreshadowed by previous games, this would allow the bear radio and the Ark Polaris bear to serve as red herrings. Casual fans of the story would assume Grizz to be a bear, while dedicated followers of Splatoon lore would know that there could be *anyone* behind that radio. Grizz being a literal bear was disappointing to a lot of people because it rendered all of this speculation pointless. It wasted one of Splatoon's biggest mysteries on the most obvious answer. And on top of that, his backstory didn't even make sense.
@@TheCosmicCloud I totally agree with your point about Mr. Grizz not being the main villain for Splatoon 3, especially considering how Salmon Run and GrizzCo were first introduced in Splatoon 2. If GrizzCo had been introduced back in Splatoon 1, it would make more sense for Splatoon 3 to reveal Mr. Grizz’s true intentions, giving us a seven-year buildup before we learn the real purpose behind the company. I always thought it made sense for Mr. Grizz to be an actual bear, especially with the theory that he was eating the Golden Eggs to become more powerful; like how GrizzCo’s illegal weapons boost stats significantly. I imagined he would evolve into a massive Kaiju-like bear, which fits the Splatoon vibe. I was excited to see Mr. Grizz as a big boss in one of the games, but his execution in Return of the Mammalians (ROTM) felt underwhelming. I think it would’ve worked better if Splatoon 3 had a different storyline, saving Mr. Grizz for Splatoon 4. In that case, maybe GrizzCo could have shut down the Salmon Run program and started a new one focusing on different animals like sharks or whales. This new program could have tied more directly into the main story, with mutant Salmonids replacing the Octarians as enemies, similar to Octo Expansion. The weapons could have been GrizzCo weapons, but slightly nerfed due to the lack of Golden Eggs after the shutdown. I honestly wanted Mr. Grizz to be portrayed as a real bear, not a mutated one. It would have made more sense for him to just be a massive, powerful bear, especially with bears’ natural love for salmon. Maybe he could have eaten the Golden Eggs, gaining powers that upset the Salmonids and led to their invasion in the story mode. They could have been infected and more intelligent as a result. Overall, I agree that Mr. Grizz and ROTM would have been better as a story for Splatoon 4 or a DLC, while Splatoon 3 could have had a more focused storyline on humans rather than the fuzzy mammal theme. Thanks for sharing your take!
Great video, sums up my issues with this game pretty well, especially how disappointing Mr. Grizz was. Something you didn't mention in your video is the Salmonids though, and the "save our salmons" message from Splatoon 2. There's this weird ambient problem in the series right now about the Salmonids and how we still pretty much don't know anything about them, we don't know why Inklings and Octolings are willing to blindly murder thousands of them, we don't know what they want, we don't know why they invade cephalopod spaces, all we know is Mr Grizz, who is supposedly dead but actually not dead, still needs a billion of their eggs to do... something, even though he's dead. I was hoping Return of the Mammalians, where no Mammalian returns except Mr. Grizz by the way, we shed proper light on the Salmonids' role in the series.
i was prepared to be mad at this video, but you adressed everything adequatley and just. From mr grizzs body to the strange gameplay elements. the one thing i am usually mad about were people getting mad that grizz is an actual bear (coughrassicascough), because it WAS so obvious, because it wasnt a red herring, because everything else would have been weird actualy, and because it just seems just weird and hypocritical for the quasi elitist lore enjoyers getting mad that nintendo didnt confirm their headcannon correctly
The main reason I would say it wasn't obvious is because we had been explicitly told several times that all mammals besides the Judds were extinct. In retrospect though, yes, they were definitely trying to hint that Grizz was a bear. If he had been given better lore to explain why he was a *sapient, talking bear,* I wouldn't have nearly as much of an issue with his visual design
@@TheCosmicCloud agreed, edit: also, since we see the world from its inhabitants point of view, the judds being the only mammals THAT THEY KNOW OF is kind of the point why grizz existing isnt a contradiction
@@jowi_ It was explicit developer intent that there were no mammals aside from the Judds. Please don't try and play it off like anyone who disagrees is a spaz.
@@WretchedRedoran you know developers can...lie.. about future content, or come up with new ideas that, by all available information, doesnt break preestablished lore, or in the worst case, retcon, although i dont think this is the case here, since it was heaviliy implied previously Also i never "called people a spaz" whatever that means, i simply referred to a meme that says "did you really get upset at the story or just that your headcannon didnt get accepted" or something along these lines, you know what i mean criticism is one thing, but nearly getting a mental breakdown over it (coughrassicasseeinggrizzforthefirsttimecough) is maybe a sign that you take this all too seriously and shouldnt take the developers interviews as gospel only to then disregard their decisions once they made it into the game because it makes you upset specifically (and yes im gonna pull the "its just a silly squid game card" with this) (the "you" in this was to a metaphorical third person, a strawman if you will, i didnt mean -you- specifically, just clarifying this since people misinterpreted my words in the past, if they want to disagree with what i say then atleast with the right thing, sorry if this is unneccessary, but just in case)
@@jowi_ My comment regarding the explicit developer intent of there being no mammals aside from the Judds wasn't really directed at Grizz, but using Grizz to justify saying things like "actually, there's nothing that says there can't be marine mammals!!1!" and going on to spread misinfo about, say, marine mammals in Splatoon (the narwhal stuff from Pearl in Splat2 was a fabrication by the NOA localisation team). I'm fine with Grizz being a bear, I'm just really upset with how he was handled. What my real problem that I failed to convey was how I fear people will inevitably use Grizz to spread ideas about the state of mammals in Splatoon as fact when there's no evidence directly from the devs to support their statements like there was with the foreshadowing of Grizz being a bear in Splat2, and that those of us who object to that will be disregarded as fools. I feared that you were one such individual who would disregard me as a fool, simply because I care.
im so happy that this video exists. ive had my gripes with rotm for a while but im unable to really articulate myself as well as others. i was really hoping rotm wouldve been about the salmonids and fleshing them out more, and to see that they only get ONE sunken scroll about them really disappointed me. i think the only way to fix rotm is to rewrite it entirely
I hope we learn more about Mr Grizz and the mamalians in Splatoon 4 all we know is he’s a lonely experiment bear who makes squid people and octopus people work for him and collect eggs for him for some reason? Why does he want fish eggs? What is he doing with them..?
I have mixed feelings on Mr. Grizz because while I wasn't the biggest fan of the single player in this game + thought the reveal was a bit disappointing, I kind of disagree with the idea that it was a completely unprecedented idea that there is just a big talking cartoon bear in the game. because.... there *is* a precedent for funny talking mammals in splatoon lol. two somewhat-anthropomorphic intelligent cats from when humans were still alive and who speak through Garfield thought bubbles have been in the games for a good while, one of them since the very beginning in general I think the developers are having a tough time bridging that gap between the fact that splatoon is a goofy cartoon game for children and like, the more "serious" parts that the fans seem to enjoy more. While i think that the fans can often verge on the end of taking the game a bit too seriously (and by this I don't mean "the game being important to them" but "seeing what are supposed to be lighthearted jokes or just a weird funny thing as Serious"), i would be lying if i said I wasn't any less compelled by this story mode than, like, octo expansion
The existence of the Judds is often used to defend Grizz being a bear, and like, yes, it’s weird that there’s an immortal talking cat. But Judd is a remnant from when the main characters of the game were rabbits, and he isn’t important to the story. If anything, the Judds being the token mammals of the Splatoon world only makes Grizz’s reveal even more annoying and out of nowhere. We were told for years that all mammals were extinct except for the cats, which is why so many people thought Grizz literally could not be a bear. I feel like we should hold the final antagonist of the trilogy to a slightly higher standard than the funny tutorial guy I get what you’re saying, though. I think there are a few cases of them writing themselves into a corner, and the overall tone of the series is pretty inconsistent. Still, I think committing to making the world more and more believable over time, only to suddenly introduce more weird talking animals and magic fish, is frankly just kinda baffling
@@TheCosmicCloud I mean in the end he ended up connecting to a important person in the lore tho and he did set a precendent for mammals to be in the series. I mean the series proved exceptions exist so who knows. And like both have importances in the lore really, tutorial character or not, like Judd directly connects to the professor who is a pretty important person in the lore.
@@Jdudec367 Judd is important to the lore, but not to any particular story. If Grizz was spoken about in a handful of Sunken Scrolls like Judd is, it wouldn’t be such a big deal. But Grizz is the MOST important character in Splatoon 3’s *narrative.* If there was any place to elaborate on the existence of mammals, Judd OR Grizz, this was the place to do it. It doesn’t make sense to obscure that information when it would directly support the story being told
@@TheCosmicCloud Well yeah they aren't the exact same but both are important to the lore. I disagree like they clearly wanted the reveal of Grizz being a mammal to well be a surprise really, so obsurcing that info until later makes sense really, and in the lore we know there are rare exceptions to there being any mammals at all like Grizz and Judd, so I don't know what else they could elaborate on really.
Mr grizz should have been a random guy who is the leader of a mamal cult full of octarians. It could have explaned a lot of things like why there are octarians and why they are not just balls of hair. He could even keep the bear symbolism by experimenting and maybe fusing with the only survivor of ark polaris, a normal bear. The deep cut rivalry could have been stoped by just saying that they dont care about the treasures and simply want cutlefish and the zapfish. The test facilities dont make sense though.
This really opened my eyes. I had never thought about most of the points you brought up, and the more I thought about it, the more the cracks began to show.
You know, this honestly explains why I sorta haven't thought of the singleplayer too much in this, you really nailed it in this and honestly the story, and lack or rather misguided lore that's aimless. It sorta reflects how the actual gameplay has been, this pertaining to like, maps, weapons, etc. Like idk I enjoy Splatoon 3 but they're just a lot of missed potential... and this just added to the list. Thank you though it was very nice to listen to this c:
This guy gets it, this guy understands. Says all the things in my mind that I never was able to spout from my mouth. Thank you. The way RotM turned out disappoints and upsets me so deeply. The devs wanted it to be a grand send-off to the characters we know before it's time to move on, even grander a finale than Octo Expansion, and it was so absolutely botched, in such an absolutely upsetting manner. I remember feeling a sickening pit in my stomach after beating it. I felt it for the days that followed. To think, *_this_* is our grand send-off for the New Squidbeak Splatoon, the last we'll ever see of it? The last of the Agents, the last of Octavio and his Octarian society, the last time we'll ever see any one of them be relevant again? And it was so utterly botched and unfulfilling, with no second chances?
Seven years ago, I believed that Mr.Grizz was some kind of aquatic mammal(was really hoping for an Orca or even a dolphin(Flipper Flopper copying the form and dive of a one) Like, an Apex predator, long forgotten by the world. While I get that it's established in the lore that all mammals died out, I always hoped that one aquatic mammal would survive, it would have been so cool especially when on certain logos(I think the fruit boxes in Hagglefish Market? You see Orcas used) An aquatic mammal maybe could have worked as it's even shown in our time how intelligent porpoises are! Then again explaining the need for the eggs could be difficult, I get that. It's also been observed that orcas are pretty brutal hunters and love to play with their food? Being so particular they only want to eat the livers out of sharks and nothing else, degloving penguins out of their skin? it's crazy what orcas could/would do to things they know they can kill.
I can totally understand the disappointment from the story aspects of the S3 campaigns. Personally, if I was making the S3 singleplayer, I would have Cuttlefish, the Squid Sisters, and Octavio stay above and out of Alterna, and instead you meet up with Deep Cut at the start of Alterna. Then, Deep Cut would follow you around for the length of the campaign, rather than the squid sisters. This would give them much more time to be characters. However, I can excuse the lackluster story, because the gameplay makes up for it. ROTM has the best level design and hub world of any of the free to play campaigns, and Side Order shows the gameplay of Splatoon single players maturing past simple platformers and shows that Splatoon could totally function as a really fun single player movement shooter, while also being something to do if your offline, which Splatoon has really needed.
I always felt like the devs were always trying to “figure out” the story modes in Splatoon. Compared to other games with campaign modes, they were always pretty basic. The first “saga” is really messy to me. The first game was their first game, they weren’t necessarily sure where this series would go. The second game was rushed out for the Switch, so it just did the first story again. But the third game is completely different than the other two, and it doesn’t feel like a wrap up to the story they’ve been building (which isn’t really all too much to begin with). I’m hoping with the start of a new saga, they’ll have a better idea of where the story will go, to make for a more complete, linear series
While it wouldn't have fixed everything I feel like a solution to Splat 3's story (without changing too much) would be to have Deep Cut working for Grizz. Instead of looting Alterna they're here to keep people OUT of Alterna because Grizz is paying them to do so. And then it's only after Grizz has revealed his plans that Deep Cut join forces with the Squidbeak Splatoon because they realize what's actually happening here.
I have to say I usually dislike return of the mammalians critiques as most of them just boil down to mr grizz being a bear = bad. Even though i was a bit anxious seeing you drop this video, and the longest chapter also being about grizz, I liked all your previous videos so I knew you would probably have only the best takes and show this story some justice, and I couldn't agree more. ROTM really was set up to be this grand finale of the splatoon story we had so far, the stakes were really high up there I mean I remmember all the hype we had around the hidden "Save our Salmon" texts and what not. The main issue really was just the story, well not telling its story. At most they would give you the big picture, like Alterna being the last human hideout or Mr Grizz being directly connected to the Ark Polaris, and then just not filling it out.(which btw when we had the bear activity sign, i knew FOR A FACT grizz would turn out a bear and then when he actually was that was like my own personal victory i went FERAL) The story has massive holes which who knows if they will be ever answered. I wanted more human lore, more past earth lore, more grizz lore, more lore about little buddy for crying out loud and ROTM just didn't deliver. Though on a positive note this leaves MASSIVE room for headcanons, I am a huge advocate for people writing their own lore, making their own stories, characters, whatever, hell even just changing things they dislike to something they vibe with more.The splatoon community really is unlike any other in how just creative it is and even till this day I've seen great Alterna stories made by the community. In all honesty I just wanted to say how i really liked your analysis of the splat 3 story, imo you even managed to make it more positive than negative, which was really uplifting to me. I think we in general should focus now on the things we liked about the story - its not like its going to change, and we dont know where the story is headed maybe splatoon 4 will be even worse xd Your channel really is a gold mine, and I am glad we have lots of people like you in our community. (And also thanks for not making a 2 hour long video of just bashing my fav character
I fully agree with the idea of headcanon. Personally been trying to craft my own Splatoon mythos with some new characters and reinterpretations of characters for something fun. I found this video gave very clear ideas about the flaws that exist in a clear way for this setting and about Mr. Grizz. Things I want to think about when it comes to my setting of RotM.
@@AuraNova26 Yess totally, me and my bestfriend have literally been writing our own lore into anything we like for years. It really is such a great feeling to take something you love to heart and then just make it even more your own, doesn't help that I am totally obsessed with everything cephalopods xd I hope everything goes great for you and your story, wishing all the best !
I think a big part of why Splatoon 3's story feels so "off" is because most of the original developers no longer work on it. Since the developers for Splatoon were also the developers for Animal Crossing, Nintendo decided to hand off the Splatoon IP to some of the less experienced developers, leaving the original Splatoon team to work on AC exclusively. That aside, great video! I also had a lot of issues with Return of the Mammalians and this video brought a lot of things I'd never even thought about to my attention. The only thing I disagree with is your point about Mr. Grizz's intelligence. While I do find it a bit odd and I wish it was better explained, we've seen examples of intelligent manmals in the past, those being Judd and Lil Judd. It's in no way out of the ordinary as we can assume Grizz became intelligent the same way the Judds did. Though again, some lore explaining it all would be nice.
The biggest problem with 3, like you say, is the overcomplexity. Splatoon 1, 2 and OE were overtly basic. 1 - fight the Octarians, they want revenge! 2 - fight the Octarians, they're trying to get revenge again! OE - fight Tartar, he's trying to grind together competent Octarians so he can create a utopic world! All of these are simple. No grand complexity save specific headcanons and cultural points. Wonderful! 3 - Fight Grizz & Deep Cut. You also have a Salmonid. Also, Grizz never met Judd, so he's mammal-bombing the world. Also, Grizz somehow stole the Octarians and mammalified them. Also, Deep Cut joined in for the loot (it's not worth much, ah well). Also, NSS is there! For some reason. Also, sun-drying happens, again! There are innumerous incongruent pieces. In isolation, sure, they're fine. Together, it's a discordant mess! The developers had a plethora of ideas for the game, but only the bare necessities are considered. One can see this in multiplayer, too; Tableturf wasn't completed until months to one year later, most of the stages/world in the art book & certain shots in the trailer are simply absent from the main game! This problem continues... Side Order - Fight Order! He's from Final Fest (Splatoon 2), from Octarians who didn't wish to abandon themselves to assimilation. Also, he's a literal fucking baby who "just doesn't get what he wants" and needs to change because "womp womp times are changing quit crying". Also, Marina's reaction when seeing a long-lost friend is "yo what's up!". Also, Pearl becomes a robot. Also, the elevator apparently doesn't work, Acht *NEEDS* to be there because it just leaves autonomously. What? Huh???? Fundamentally, Splatoon 3 is a technical masterpiece. However, that leads me to think that the developers had little idea what to do and just went with whatever they could throw at a wall. It certainly reads (in code) like it!
Looking forward to hearing your thoughts on side order after seeing this. It would be interesting to see the contrast between how the base game and DLC tell their stories.
i was a little scared to watch this at first, because i love splatoon 3, but i can see now why it would be frustrating if you're an old time splatoon fan. splatoon 3 was my first splatoon game and i went through it completely blind to the story of the first two. so from the perspective of someone who didn't know anything else; i loved splatoon 3! mindless fun with bits of deep lore to be found scattered about. i loved piecing together what happened on earth before everything went down, and grizz's backstory tugged at my heartstrings. if i could i'd wipe my memory and replay it! i can't tell if i'm glad that i came in this late, though, or if i'd rather have been there from the beginning. i think if i had been i might've missed out on the joy splatoon 3 gave me.
I felt that ROTM was one of the best Splatoon stories that we had gotten- but it was mainly for the lore dump in the Alternan logs. Thanks for making a video that sheds some light on the more... obscene parts. While I still believe it is not the worst story mode we have, this was expertly written. In contrast, I don't have the highest of praise for Side Order. I can't wait if you do plan to make a video on it! (Also I rarely comment on videos, so this is a real great exception. That's a sub from me :D )
Even if Return of the Mamallians wasn’t all what it was cooked up to be, Mr. Grizz is definitely the cause of the Salmonid conflict that was set up since Splatoon 2, and it will be very interesting to see how the Salmonids will escalate their invasion on Inkadia.
I just wanted to add what makes splatoon 2 so amazingly wonderful is that it encapsulates and represents the liberation of oppressed minorities. Black people especially! The octo expansion game play, Marina and Pearls story of how they met, and even the outfits the two of them wear in the game. The necklaces they wear are reminiscent of the one Tupac was well known for wearing, and Tupac’s impactful rap and music was about the human condition and black liberation which is so exciting to me as a black person myself. I can go on and on about how much I love splatoon and how it is able to be used to speak on humanity and social issues!
I love the lore of Splatoon 3, but I will never forgive them for NOT explaining enough about the fuzzy ink. Like, WHY are the octarians fuzzy? HOW did they ended up like this? WHY do they work for Grizz? Why do they look like that, meanwhile the player becomes a fuzzy ball that can't move when they get into contact with the fuzzy ink? Octarians are one of my favorite parts about the lore. They obey DJ Octavio in Splatoon 1 because he's their leader and you, Agent 3, is trying to steal the Great Zapfish from them. In Splatoon 2 is almost the same. In Octo Expansion they are sanitized octolings that obey the commands of Tartar, and we are explained WHAT sanitization is, HOW does affect someone, WHY would someone end like that, and WHY do the sanitized octarians want to attack us. We even have Dedf1sh lore explained by the devs, wich adds even more depth as to WHY someone would CONSENT to be sanitized and being part of Kanabo Corporation. But all of that is NOT explained with the fuzzy ink and Mr Grizz, and that just dissapoints me SO much that you can't imagine.
stealing the octarian army maybe was intentional bait from mr grizz, to lure us in and get his hands on cuttlefish. and then the test facilities were there to keep us away once he got cuttlefish. maybe he has been observing our past adventures and chose to mimic them to his advantage. but still, no idea what cuttlefish's essence actually means
(This was my reply to someone in a comment thread, but I'm copying it here as it may help more people understand this perspective)
*"Why did people think that Mr. Grizz wasn't a bear when the only evidence about his identity suggested that he was a bear?*
A lot of people were hoping that Grizz would not be the antagonist of Splatoon 3 at all. I remember thinking it would be unfortunate to unveil his true identity just one game after his introduction, when he could have been built up across a longer period and given more time to develop BEFORE his big reveal. Of course, with the reveal of ROTM, many people believed Grizz was going to be involved. It was easily assumed that he might be the one attempting to bring back the mammals, but we didn't have any confirmation that HE was a mammal himself. Grizz likely knew of the Ark Polaris bear, but that didn't have to mean he WAS the bear. And the bear radio at Grizzco would make a lot more sense if he wasn't obscuring his appearance through a device that... shares his appearance. While there wasn't any solid evidence of him being something *other* than a bear, it was left vague enough that he could have been *anything.*
Some people wanted to see a sea creature scientist who was obsessed with the mammals of the past. Some people thought it could be an AI remnant of the humans like Commander Tartar. Others thought Grizzco could have connections to Lil'Judd, DJ Octavio, or the Professor. There was no reason to think any of these options *couldn't* happen, and it felt like the developers *wanted* us to speculate about Grizz's identity. The AI/ prerecorded voice idea is actually something that was hinted at in a dev interview, which is why many people now believe that is how Grizzco functions after the events of ROTM. These kinds of teases from the developers got people excited about all of the possibilities of what Grizz could be.
It's not so much that the evidence was already there, but the potential was. Grizz could have dropped hints throughout Splatoon 3's story itself to make the reveal less random (something I think they should have done even with him being a bear). While his true identity may have not been directly foreshadowed by previous games if he were something other than a bear, such a reveal would allow the Grizzco statue and the Ark Polaris bear to serve as red herrings. Casual fans of the story would assume Grizz to be a bear, while dedicated followers of Splatoon lore would know that there could be *anyone* behind that radio. Grizz being a literal bear was disappointing to a lot of people because it rendered all of this speculation pointless. It wasted one of Splatoon's biggest mysteries on the most obvious answer. And on top of that, his backstory didn't even make sense.
Everything you’ve said here is articulating my gripes with Mr. Grizz. May I add on that, the realized version of him we have in ROTMM is just a worse version of Commander Tartar? Both villains want to see their idealized world come to light, and have unfavorable opinions on inkfish society. However, Tartar ties directly into the overarching themes of the series, and has its own background explaining why it thinks this way. Mr. Grizz on the other hand, while having his own background, doesn’t have enough in it to explain why when he woke up, he decided he must destroy Inkfish society & bring back mammals. It vaguely implies that he might’ve been upset that the age of mammals was no more, but it’s never stated like Tartar.
In every way, Grizz is just a worse Tartar.
I think Return of the mamalians is the same as the first splatoon: Story with questions to answer in the next game. Splatoon 1 made you wanted to know about Octarians, Splatoon 3 wants you to know about the experiments and the "soul" or whatever he did to Cuttlefish. I THINK!!! The reason why the little fish turned into a giant salmon and grizz turning into some kind of goo will be answered with the story of the Salmonids; The megalodon salmon bosses made by music, human pollution (the reason why the arc failed and something the game has not touched, like toxic waste and such) IF THEY ARE PLANING TO MAKE SPLATOON 4 ( I HOPE) I bet they will answer that in the next game, the only thing left is the invation of salmonids, I think Octavio will be the "In my time" kind of characters now that is been "humanized" in the DLC and main game.... or I am just coping hard
SRPELO?? IN MY SPLATOON LORE COMMENT SECTION???
I think Splatoon 1 functioned very well as set-up for stories to come due to it being the first entry and very small in scope. Splatoon 3 was built up to be the "end of the Splatastic saga," which is why I was disappointed that it raised more questions than it answered. Some things really feel like they should have been explained then and there. But yes, I'm still holding out hope that all of these loose threads get tied up eventually. I definitely think the story will continue, and I'm still very excited to see where it goes next, especially after Side Order
plz make a splatoon short Señor Pelo 🥺🥺🥺🥺
didn't expect pelo to be here.
i hope splatoon for adds more of a story
also spooky mon is next month
I think it would've been better if Deep Cut were hired by Mr. Grizz to stop Neo Agent 3. If you think about it, the bear is loaded. He could offer to pay them handsomely if they dealt with us.
even in grand big run DEEP CUT are directly covering songs for grizzco??? like obviously retroactive but its such a missed opportunity.
Yesssss this is exactly what I was thinking and what he was touching base on about inklings and octolings representing humans this would’ve been a great opportunity to exemplify the exploitation of the poor and working class for wealthy people/ people with and agenda or motive. That way deep cut aren’t just some random bounty hunters that are in the way, they’re cohesive within the story.
doesn’t he sponsor deep cuts splatcast? there’s almost always a grizzco section in the news.
@@メプチューン i mean OTH gave them too; i think it's an exception to the rule since stages need to be announced somewhere and it'd be distracting to have a seperate grizzco cast
That’s really smart!! Plus then once grizzco was defeated, the theee could’ve been all “well…we’re out of a job..” and Marie could’ve still stepped in and kept the dynamic we have now, but more depth to the trio :)
Whilst I don’t really have a problem with Return of the Mammalians at all. I just find it *EXTREMELY* hilarious, that for years there was a certain part of the Splatoon community was so confident and sure, that Mr. Grizz was 100% NOT a bear.
Only to be gob-smacked in the fucking face, with him not only being a bear, but also revealing how he made Grizzco. And having him be the big spectacular finale to the game. I’m sorry that shit is so funny to me LMAO
There was definitely a bit of delusion going around. We were coping with ROTM scraps for months lol
Even if Grizz being a bear does seem really obvious in hindsight, though, I still think it was fair to expect an explanation for him being an *intelligent, talking bear.*
@@TheCosmicCloud Here lies Rasscias, may the space bears be with em’
@@TheCosmicCloud I always assumed that being in a "waking dream" or whatever for 12 000 years, way longer than the average bear's lifespan, allowed him to learn more, become more intelligent than a bear normally should be
He's existed for a long time with nothing but his thoughts so I imagine over time those thoughts grew more complex
@@badopinionssquid1735 I think the idea of Grizz becoming intelligent over time could've been alright if it was explained in more detail, or if it explicitly involved whatever experiments the humans were conducting on him (or even the liquid crystals). The current explanation simply doesn't make sense. Obviously not everything in Splatoon is scientifically sound, but it feels like the developers used cyrosleep to explain Grizz surviving 12,000 years and then just tacked on the part about him dreaming to explain his intelligence. The fact that we don't even get this information until AFTER we defeat him just makes what should be a complex backstory feel like a last-minute, lazy explanation
@@TheCosmicCloudI think a big problem was that it kind of goes at odds with Judds lore being the only mammal left and the melancholy of that. The fact that the mystery of Grizz in splatoon 2 is so alluring that anyone could be behind that speaker. Do forgive people for thinking that McDonald’s is not actually literally owned by a clown. As funny as it would be
Something that did always rub me the wrong way, aside from the very obvious character butchering-
Was that they told us ROTM would act as a finale for the SquidBeak Splatoon, yet the actual result we got didn’t feel like a satisfying payoff.
I wanna believe they had a much grander idea for the trilogy conclusion, especially with what we’ve seen in the Art Of Splatoon 3.
But a lot of those ideas had to be scrapped for something much simpler, so they could still ease in series newcomers.
Yeah, I keep hoping they don't try and pretend that Splatoon 3 was the great sendoff to the squidbeak saga like they tried to make it and they actually acknowledge "Yeah we fucked it up" and try again to give it a proper ending. But so much of what's going on is giving the impression that they are just going to pretend they succeeded at making that sendoff. Deep Cut didn't even get anything, and Agent 4 literally was completely left out despite getting their home address doxxed by Nintendo.
That art that showed all of the agents supposed to be returning for Splatoon 3 would've actually been the kind of thing expected from the ending of the current saga.
The weirdest part about this to me is that Octo Expansion already felt like the finale of Squidbeak. The Octarians were finally acknowledged as equals, Cuttlefish ends up learning and growing close to the people he used to fight against, Agent 3 returns (with a remix of Splattack), and we face off against a creation of the humans. Even Callie and Marie are referenced a number of times---they're revealed to be important to 2 of the story's major characters, and we hear the Calamari Inkantation. It was every idea introduced in the first game turned up to 11. I don't know why they decided to stretch out this supposed "Squidbeak Saga" when, in my mind, it had already ended
@@Freelancer837 I understand exactly what you mean, man. Like the words out of my own mouth.
I disagree I mean the plot isn't perfect buut the characters weren't full on butchered.
I mean...going into space to fight a built up villian of half a decade didn't feel like a satisfying payoff?
@@TheCosmicCloudbecause nostalgia sell very good
Honestly, I think my biggest disappointment is that we got a story with Mr.Grizz as the main villain.......And it has absolutely nothing to do with the Salmonids. They and GrizzCo barely even get a single mention (outside of Grizz's "corporate speak" jokes).
Like, I love Little Buddy as much as everyone else, but he could have been replaced with a MacGuffin/plot item and nothing would change.
as someone who really enjoys return of the mammalians, i have to say that there were some things i did not like! i was very dissatisfied with the fact that deep cut were barely in the story mode and although i really like their boss fights, i wish we got to know more about them personally. i know we learn more about how they met in the different interviews and magazines but i wish it was explained more in the main story itself. i loooove splatoon lore very much however, deep cut is the one we know least about which makes me sad as they are probably my favorite group. i just wish they got more chances to shine in their own game!!!!
Deep Cut not getting their own storymode will always be the worst part about Splatoon 3. I get that they were probably planning on more than one DLC originally, but Deep Cut really should've been the priority over Off The Hook. Deep Cut has had their game taken away by the other idol groups time after time. And thanks to the newscast being skippable in this game, most people didn't even care to know anything about Deep Cut unlike the other two groups since those newscasts are the main way we learn anything about the characters and world in Splatoon
@@Freelancer837i agree a thousand percent they deserve the attention too! They are so much more uniqer interms of what they mean despite just being idols.. THEY ARE TREASURE HUNTERS AND HEADS OF CLANS!!! THATS CRAZY come on noooowwww and ontop of that now their agents more and such like 😭 GIVE THEM FIVE DLCS ILL BIY THEM ALL SPLATOON
the vast majority of lore we know about the other idols is from non in-game lore. why would you expect the opposite to be the case for S3 and deep cut? we didn’t even know really why callie and marie were separated in splatoon 2s story mode until we got more info outside of the game… i feel like i’m going crazy reading these comments
@@DANNY__JK true but we hoped the newest game would possibly change that? Guess improvement isnt a priority in new games huh
@@jestrel i mean look at the weapon kits in s3 compared to s2, improvement definitely was not something consistently applied to s3
starting with this game is crazy cuz i had no idea who grizz was and i was like why the fuck is there suddenly a bear in a spaceship now ?
Don’t worry; everyone who has played the previous games was also confused about the bear.
if you couldnt tell from the video it was never explained even playing in order
@@idk01123 tbf we already knew him from splatoon 2's salmon run
I honestly don't know if it would be better or worse to have the 5 years of expectations LOL like it kinda comes out of nowhere either way
mr grizz: BECAUSE WE NEED THOSE SALMON EGGS GET TO WORK!
Didn’t make sense to me why Alterna looked so pristine despite supposedly being destroyed by falling debris. Or why the ORCA trials were designed for humans by humans but are ink based
The ink stuff might be due to ORCA, being fully aware and always learning what happens in the planet. And the Alterna 'pristine look' isn't really there? Like the place is messy, full of garbage, the whole place is flooded because of the crater flooding way back when, and it's full of fake snow. But can understand why stuff hasn't really faded away naturally, it's secluded underground without any real disturbance aside from the recent events
it is a video game
@@DANNY__JK so?
Mr Grizz literally cleaned it up. He’s been down there rebuilding the rocket for years. It’s explained to us in the game.
@@jimlight5137 not really, no. It’s never said he cleaned it up. The logs say the entire place was destroyed by the rocket. Yet, there’s a rocket and the place is pristine 🤨
Explain the ink based trials made specifically for inkfish even though it was a human settlement
I think most of ROTM's flaws are a result that Splatoon campaigns are still limited to short, 6-hour campaigns where the vast majority of storytelling is done through lore dumps in dozens of text files. Many of ROTM's inconsistencies is that it's really the first campaign to try and do more than that, but was still limited to the few resources the Splatoon dev team is given to make these campaigns. That's why we don't learn more about Mr. Grizz, why the test chambers exist, or where DJ Octavio is for the majority of the story. There simply isn't enough room to include those things without making ROTM a more standard, traditionally sized campaign. Even the best Splatoon story, Octo Expansion, did quite a bit in terms of character development, but it's ultimately still done through layers and layers of text on a screen rather than a more meaningful story sequence, and Sanitization as a concept is barely explained in the actual game, left instead to developer interviews for players to seek out.
I think that's why I'm able to let a lot of ROTM's issues slide because it's having to do all of these things with more or less the same limitations as previous campaigns in terms of scope. Yes, all the issues you mention in this video are valid, but the highest highs in ROTM are still some of the coolest world-building and storytelling moments in a Splatoon game. The rocket ambience, for example, containing the last recorded messages of humanity is some of the coolest environmental storytelling in the series. The Crater sequence is also one of my favorite moments in a Splatoon game. Having Octavio show up as the first boss and making the player immediately question the true nature of what's going on might be the most memorable moment of the entire campaign for me. And even with Mr. Grizz's flaws as a predictable twist villain and lacking a proper backstory, he perfectly complements the story's themes about embracing change and how death can lead to life (the fall of humanity leading to the rise of the Inklings/Octolings).
So while the story has many, many inconsistencies, it's hard for me to not say that the story is still very memorable and effective in many areas. It simply deserved to a bigger campaign; therefore, I would argue that ROTM's biggest flaw isn't a lack of attention to detail like you claim, but that it's trying to bring far too many details into a story that simply doesn't have room for them. That's why I respect ROTM more than Octo Canyon in Splatoon 2, a story with next to zero ambition or interesting things to say. ROTM at least has some incredible imagery, atmosphere, and themes.
I also completely disagree with you that Side Order improves on any of these issues at all. I think nearly all of these flaws apply to Side Order as well, but in a greater amount while failing to make up for it with cool sequences and theming like ROTM did. Despite ROTM being flawed, the things about it that I mentioned that I loved gave me hope that ambition for Splatoon stories would continue to rise. Side Order pretends like it has a lot going on and wants to have an insightful, thought-provoking story but does none of the work to deserve that. While ROTM has many inconsistencies, it at least properly foreshadows many aspects of its conflict and themes, with the fuzzy ooze and Alterna logs. Side Order hypes you up in the beginning only for there to be literally zero story until the finale. How exactly is defeating Smollusk and working together with Pearl, Marina, and Acht supposed to be a satisfying conclusion to the story when none of these things are given a single moment to develop. If you beat Smollusk within your first few tower runs, chances are the only story you were given outside of the tutorial is 1 or 2 Marina Diaries and elevator text between floors. I can't describe how monumentally disappointed I was with how little thought and care was given to how this story is told. I think it squanders its potential far, far more than ROTM.
I absolutely agree that scope is a limiting factor for Splatoon's developers, and that ROTM could have fully realized its ideas given more resources and time. However, knowing that, I personally wish the developers would have not attempted to make the story so ambitious in the first place. It tries to explore a wide range of ideas, but without the space to do so, each of these ideas can only be examined at the surface level. The best example of this is Grizz; conceptually, his arc is compelling, but in practice, he only has a few meaningful lines of dialogue. If Nintendo did not intend to flesh out 11 characters in their story, I would criticize the decision to include 11 characters. On some level, I respect their ambition, but I would have preferred a story that was smaller in scope and deeper in meaning.
Walls of text and developer interviews are not ideal, but they are at least a way to give that information to the players. It's true that a lot of important parts of Octo Expansion are not in the game itself, but what those interviews and pieces of concept art show us is that the developers thought deeply about the story that was being told. It's been 2 years since the release of Splatoon 3, and we have almost no information about ROTM's development, concepts, or explanations for its plot holes. This is perhaps a different issue entirely, but I do not feel like Nintendo has communicated to the fans that they care about this story as much as they used to.
Side Order has plenty of its own flaws, and I'm not going to argue it's an amazing story, but for me it comes closer to what I just described. A story that is smaller in scope and grandiose, but with a more focused set of characters who are relevant to the setting and whose flaws and motivations tie them together. I completely understand if you find the storytelling structure of ROTM more compelling, and in many ways I agree. I think a GREAT Splatoon story is one that builds upon established lore while also carving it's own identity. Side Order feels a bit too much like an Octo Expansion 1.5, but I personally found it more satisfying than ROTM, which at times felt entirely disinterested in the existing canon
What I'd like to know is how Lil' Judd and Judd all mix into this whole mess. Clearly, Grizz is not the only Mammal left, but seemingly has not ever met any of these other two Mammals, that could have almost any answer he needs. (One being a MAMMAL clone of the other)
Which makes it even more baffling to see that seemingly, Lil' Judd has taken over the Salmon Run Workstation as a sidehustle.
"There are no talking animals in Splatoon"
Judd and Lil Judd:
Though, I understand the critiques about Grizz's character and backstory since it's so vague
About the characters not having any purpose--something Octo Expansion does SO well.
Marina is actively hacking into Kamabo's system to keep track of 8, and Pearl uses her wealth to give 8 extra cash with the help of Marina. 3 saves 8 from the blender and gets to be a bossfight, Marina uses her tech and Pearl uses her voice to help you out during the final boss, in fact final boss is just you covering the statue so Pearl and Marina can have a chance to beat it.
There's never a moment you ask "why are they just standing there"
This is an issue in 2, but it's heavily exacerbated in 3 when the Squid Sisters, 3 and Deep Cut are standing around doing absolutely nothing for most of the story (until DC gives you a space suit out of nowhere and the Calamari Inkantion magically turns Smallfry into a Kaiju)
(Also it's funny you didn't even mention there's absolutely no discussion about how the player and the idols have been collecting eggs for Grizz and Smallfry gets no dialogue or backstory)
Cosmic strikes again with another god-tier video.
a major reason I havent made a video on ROTM myself is for the very reason you said towards the end: I didn't want to make an overly negative video.
people have been treating me like an idiot for having been "so sure" Grizz wasn't gonna be a bear (I never claimed I was certain, I just didn't want it mainly because too-obvious bear imagery seemed like a perfect red herring, among other reasons). Or that they think "bear=bad" is my only opinion on Grizz, and that I am stupid for not seeing the potential in Grizz's story, based on my live reaction from a 13-hour-straight gaming session. I posted my reaction because I think it's funny (and it still is LOL), but the amount of genuine condescension and hate that I got from people who could not handle someone on the internet disliking ROTM really turned me off from the idea of wanting to talk about it further.
That coupled with it really being a big task to articulate in a digestible way all the issues there are with ROTM. Not just The Bear, but from the lack of explanation for things like the kettles and fuzzy octarians, to the unfocused nonsensical story, to how over the top the finale is, to how half of the characters serve practically no purpose, the sidelining of Octavio...yes there's good points to ROTM, but there's a lot of glaring issues! And my god you covered all of that. hit the nail on the head. Grand slammed. slam dunked. home runned. knocked out of the park. sports. what was I saying. right. 333/10 excellent video. 25:22 is especially SO GOOD. Splatoon's broader themes of its world being a reflection of our own, and by extension, inklings and octolings being a reflection of humanity, the sense of realism in that, and how Grizz's... goofiness... messes with the sense of believably that's been built up in Splatoon's lore. I don't think I'd ever been able to articulate that specific feeling without someone being like "um but this is the talking fish game why is this a problem lol" but again. you nailed it. genuinely thank you for making this video.
I have a question. He didn't want to touch on the tear of revival at 17:48, which is fair enough. The origin of [this] Hugefry being so strange compared to the other King Salmonids (because with Bonerattle Arena now, how can't he be the fifth, including Hizunamasu) is also something I'd rather just look past, because sometimes it's just the best course of action.
I don't care about the revival, just the tear (because it theoretically might have been covered before RotM). There's water inside Inklings? I figured where we have water, they'd have ink, no? Actually, to what extent does water dissolve them? Would light or heavy rain spell disaster?
A part of me thinks that Splatoon 3’s story was rushed so they could get another Splatoon game on switch before the next system came out..
As someone who absolutely loves RotM and everything that it brought (especially the human lore), this video feels like getting thrown into a pool of freezing water, but in a good way. I think it's a good thing to acknowledge all the plot holes and very bad decisions that the devs made. And it sucks that those decisions happened, because as you basically said in the video, we could've had something magnitudes better if a little more thought was put into it.
But also, I like that there are plot holes and inconsistent things thrown into the mix, it fits the theme of chaos that the game has, and it allows us, the players to make our own ideas and conclusions to tie everything together. That's where I thinnk the majority of the fun of RotM is, not in everything being told to us, forcing us to use our imagination and make a more coherent story.
All in all, great video! Always a blast when you upload! :D
I think something that isn’t addressed in general by the community is how underwhelming deep cut are. I feel like they were clearly supposed to be the “evil” “edgy” group to parallel with off the hook and the squid sisters. Like rough housing brothers and sisters. But I think they got nervous or didn’t want to commit to deep cut being “bad guys”. Working for Grizz for money straight or simply looting for there own gain would have been much better alternatives with potential for characther development and a more closer tie to the setting and themes of anarchy, with maybe even a bit of societal commentary but we didn’t get that and I feel there a lot more underwhelming compared to the other idols. It’s a shame cause their designs rock
I feel like this should have been more of a super science adventure plot. Grrizz Co hires The Octarian Millitary, The New Splatoon, and Deep Cut to explore Alterna with different pretenses and unkown to eachother. They would butt heads inherently, creating all the conflicts already in game and setting up Grizz better as a villian. It would also invite the introduction of greater emphasis on the idea of Grizz being a hyper intelligent bear turned villian. It could have been like an episode of Venture Bros.
I think it's telling that I've seen both squid sister fans and deep cut fans complain about how they were handled in rotm.
I will say, the lore we got in this game regarding humanity and discovering how it tragically fell legitimately gave me a sick feeling in my stomach. Like seriously, reading about how the pilots on the Arc were just left to drift aimlessly around earth and slowly die while the others eventually perished in the crash was really disturbing, like just imagining Grizz waking up to see the carnage of thousands of humans is really fricked up, and gives more believability to his motives, imo. Not to mention the way the logs describe how all humans in Alterna were either buried alive or just completely gave up is extremely sad, like legit I didn’t expect this lore to rock me to my core like that. Honestly I think part of the reason why I found it so disturbing is because the story feels a little too plausible. Like if there was no God, then a form of this carnage would most definitely be in our future.
So yeah, while I definitely agree with a lot of your points on how the game’s actual story wasn’t presented too well, I think the behind-the-scenes-lore made up for it, for me at least. I just have a big thing for games with a cutesy exterior but extremely messed up lore underneath, a big reason why Kirby and Splatoon are my 1st and 3rd favorite game series of all time. (2nd is FNAF for similarly obvious reasons)😅
The Alternan lore was definitely executed well, and I have a lot more positive things to say about it than I could get to in this video. I just wish the rest of the game actually integrated it into the narrative. Grizz speaking about the Alternans would have made the weight of their death more meaningful to the characters and story we see play out in the present day
0:30 don’t forget the giant murder blender.
I’m an avid Splatoon lore nut and competitive player; all my friends keep making fun of me for not having finished it, but I watched the ending and was not motivated in the slightest to save inkopolis. You articulate why well.
If you get Salmonid power eggs for beating the tests… do you think Mr Grizz was the one who elaborated the tests? To keep us from getting to him? Grizz is heavily tied with Alterna, he does have what appears to be a level of technical skill, given the fact he jet starts a space ship and supposedly designed the Grizzco weapons. Maybe through using his fuzzy ink on octarians he was able to make them give octarian devices like the kettles…? I’m mostly hypothesizing here, cuz there’s still the question on why grizz would give you power eggs in the first place, and the treasure thing. Idk lol
It definitely seems like Grizz would be aware of the Alternan tests. I have no idea why the tests provide Power Eggs, though. The salmonids didn't exist during the time of the humans, so we don't know why ORCA has them, and we don't know if ORCA and Grizz have interacted with one another. I'd love to see a theory that finds a way to make sense of it all, but it really just doesn't add up
@@TheCosmicCloud i think what hes asking is what if grizz id the reason theyre there, along with all the other test elements. Orca knows who he is, meaning he likely entered that information willingly. While its not stated anywhere, maybe those tests were made to test fuzzy ooze test subjects?
The tests provide powers eggs as rewards. Said eggs are used to clear the ooze. The tests aren't keeping us from grizz, they're helping us get to him by making it easier to explore alterna
@@TheCosmicClouddude, use your imagination. Mr Grizz has been down here rebuilding the rocket for decades for his plan. He’s been experimenting with the ooze and on octoling life forms to perfect it. Why is it such a far leap of logic that he had a hand in the test chambers being altered in their parameters and designed off octarian tech when he’s USING Octarians in his experiments???
im pretty sure that the ooze is an extension of mister grizz himself, remember that that thing is alive and you can see at the start of the game how it grab cuttlefish in specific and how it would grab the main character whenever we get close to it
Personally I think that the reason Mr. Grizz is suddenly very intelligient is for the same reasons JUDD is intelligient
They both went through nearly 12000 years of cryosleep each, Judd even more since he was there seemingly from the genesis of turf wars. Im guessing being asleep for such a long time simply develops the mind to unnatural standards due to how long a lifespan 12000 is, even if you weren't doing anything but sleeping during it.
They are similar in a bunch of ways to solidify this theory further, as both can communicate with inklings in a langnuage they understand while also not moving their mouths. Judd is a confirmed telepath so it wouldn't be too far-fetched to consider Grizz a telepath too.
Granted, none of this explains how Grizz understood rocket science so well, or why lil' judd is on the same level of intelligience as judd despite only being a couple of years old, but I think Grizz's intelligience does make sense in the confines of what has already been established
ROTM is still flawed im not saying this SAVES it, but I think its a neat observation that I haven't seen brought up elsewhere
yeah all these complaints about why Mr Grizz is a talking, cartoonish bear while Judd and Lil Judd are RIGHT THERE acting even MORE anthro and cartoony than Mr Grizz
@@sarafontanini7051 along with Splatoon just inherently being a silly series overall lol
NOT a reason to validate how ROTM was handled of course, but it was inevitable they were gonna get sillier with it
Thing is, Judd was always like that. In the comics anyway. He has telepathy. No seriously.
Splatoon 3's story definitely dropped the ball a little, but I have to appreciate the "improvements" to Splatoon's general outline to stories is in this game, the extra lore from the Alterna logs(even if it was mid), more cutscenes, a more interesting hubworld, more interesting level design, the upgrade system for the gear, a flashy climactic boss(even if it was half baked) are all things I think they def have improved on, there's still a lot to work on, so hopefully in the next game they can write an even better story and maybe flesh out Mr.Grizz a bit more if they have the time, because I also equally went insane when I found out he literally looks like a bear from animal crossing.
This video put into perspective some feelings I had towards Return of the Mammalians.
For starters, I was happy with Return of the Mammalians. I fell in love with Splatoon for the great lore, yes, but also for the details regarding the small parts of the world, the overarching themes of identity and cooperation, the sense of community and belonging and, most importantly, because it's really fun, both in terms of gameplay, but also presentation! And Return of the Mammalians had enough of that, that I was happy with it. But in my head, I always kind of distanced it from the other story modes in the series and I think this video expresses well why.
Splatoon 3 has clearly shown that it's meant to be a celebration of Splatoon so far. Nearly all major characters return, we learn about life as one of the longest surviving humans, we learnt how the many creatures of the world actually came to be, we can play from all 3 hubs, the whole of GrandFest is just celebrating the series so far and, most relevant to this topic, Return of the Mammalians is the end of the saga.
But I don't think it was meant to be.
Return of the Mammalians felt like it was meant to be the start of a new story or a standalone story. But then, the idea of it being 'the climactic end of a saga' arose, and it lost a lot of its identity and story for references, call-backs and spectacle. I kind of always saw Return of the Mammalians as a new story with various vague ties back to the old stories, and I reckon that's the problem. A lot of Return of the Mammalians' issues, stem from its identity issue. It wanted to be a brand new story, but was forced to represent everything the series was meant to be up until it... So it kind of lacks in both.
It's the kind of story where I could see a Side Order-esque lore dump in the future expanding a lot on it, and giving it a lot of the identity it was meant to have.
I still really like Return of the Mammalians, except while I do love many aspects of it, I recognise where it falls flat and what the problems with it are.
if i could have changed anything about the alterna logs, i would have made the squid transformation thing happen BEFORE humanity was wiped out completely. not sure how, i would think maybe through toxicity in the water or something, but i think it would make more sense timeline-wise, and would explain the inkling/octoling specific tests in alterna. if the scientists saw this new life form growing right in front of their eyes, they would take them in and test them. which could also lead to why inkling society ended up being so similar to human society, because that’s technically where the first inklings grew up, etc etc. is this convoluted and a bit silly? yes. but i think it would be neat.
That does sound kinda neat 😮
My biggest gripes were just how Deep Cut got shafted completely and how dissatisfying Mr Grizz was as an antagonist that had been built up from S2.
And while it was sorta cool to learn about the complete link between humanity and how ink-kind came to be, deep down, I think I would have preferred more focus on character-work for the actual living characters like in Octo Expansion - rather than meticulously trying to explain how and why ink-kind are so similar to humanity.
I feel the Squid Sisters should have been cut entirely. Their sole relevance was just to introduce new players to them, and to sing the Calamri Inkantation - which could easily have been brought back by Shiver, an octoling, for how and why she was freed and got to where she is.
For sweeping changes, Mr Grizz could have been the tutorial and guiding voice motivating/luring the player into Alterna to convert them into a mammalian, or rope them into his schemes. Deep Cut would appear in search of missing inklings and octolings reported in the area, and after witnessing you doing shady stuff in each area under Grizz's orders, take you on to bring you to justice or something.
For a singleplayer campaign which involves an antagonist who also serves as the talking guide in the PVE mode though, part of me wishes there was a bit more integration between these two things too - like Deep Cut trying to hijack a helicopter after a victory to see where golden eggs are taken to or something somehow.
Freed? Unless I am mistaken, from what I understand of the lore, the whole conflict of the Octarians and Inklings seems to be focused in the lands of Inkadia. The Splatlands seem to have no knowledge of the Great Turf War and there are indications that Inklings and Octolings of the Splatlands have been co-existing for centuries. What with the clans that Shiver, Frye, and Big Man hailed from.
@@AuraNova26Exactly. The Splatlands didn't take part in the war and so never had a divide between species. Instead, they had a flood that almost killed everyone. Which kinda explained that God exists?? But anyways, it's something that puts the Octo/Inkling conflict into perspective and makes it all the more realistic.
It's especially funny because Shiver is like in an important family in the Splatlands that also takes care of the Splatfests so she's the complete opposite of how we conceived Octolings!
@@ondiiinaremember that the flood also happened in inkadia but since they got more land they just decided to fight for it
This video really made me realize just how flawed the story of s3's singleplayer really is, I enjoyed it on my first playthrough and I'd still say I enjoyed the story beats but I couldn't help but feel something was missing
this is the second video i’ve seen from your channel, the first being “what it means to be human” from splatoon, and i can confidently say your content routinely delivers!! your videos are amazing, keep it up!! ^^
I feel RotM needed one or two more rewrites and it would have been great. Just having small fixes like the test rooms were made by Mr. Grizz to see if Fuzzy Inkfish could survive and function, as there is no reason to waste all this time if everyone would die. Include some challenging fuzzy inklings to fight along side the fully formed octorians to show Mr. Grizz was a menace to all his potential workers. Maybe have a scroll stating after loss of leadership (Tartar) Kamabo Co was bought by Grizz Co to explain how he got access to this type of stuff. Because the stuff about humans being so desperate to see the sun, so much so their wishes bleed into the earth and live on in all sea life is amazing and I love it. I even like the over the top fight, showing all three sections of Splatoon, story mode with Octovio, Salmon Run with Little Buddy and PvP with Neo 3, working together to beat past sins to create a new future. (I also like the possible darker themes of predatory bosses with Mr. Grizz, although I know Nintendo would never look at fan ideas like "Bears do eat squids") Luckily though, I am a sucker for overal fun so I enjoyed the game play a lot
I loved the idea of relating Mr. Grizz with Kamabo Co
one of the reasons i liked mr. grizz's reveal so much is because it was something that i had called so many years ago even before splatoon 3's announcement. it felt so satisfying to get a part of the story right.
I feel the last 5 minutes of the conflict section boils down your complains very well, and made me understand better how I feel about the disappointing parts of RotM.
I personally have never felt too weirded out by Grizz being a bear, even after being fully invested on the lore of the series, and I feel your issues with Grizz are ones I can understand better than the issues other people have (which is not to say they are wrong just because I have a harder time understanding btw).
I think the worst part for me is the characters being all over the place without much a purpose to them, I really, really enjoy when characters all have a clear role and significance to the story or plot, and is sad to see how this story could've worked better without a lot of them, especially when "essential" characters like cuttlefish really don't have any explanation as to why they are so essential, even though I can see why the New Squidbeak Splatoon is involved, since I find the need for the great zapfish believable.
Even though this is the case, I really enjoy this story mode for reasons, I really enjoy the overworld, and I had a lot of fun trying to paint whole areas, plus having very interesting level concepts, I really enjoy the gameplay of Splatoon, at an almost equal level than lore, story and art, each of them complimenting my love for the other, I just really love Splatoon as a whole, even in a campaign that felt so lacking for many veterans, it was something I enjoyed playing a lot, and I have a hard time thinking back to it's issues heheheh.
I really like it when people find the time to explain their issues with Splatoon in a way I struggle with! I still love the maps for the background details and setting, but there exist issues that you have expressed that I would have a hard time talking about in the same way simply because it doesn't bother me as much, but I'm also an artist, I also find value in the map itself cohesive stylistically, and the same goes for a lot of the issues for RotM, many of them don't bother me as much, but I still want to see this series be elevated to the heights I think it deserves, because Splatoon is really good and I want for it to be better, yipee! yeah! cool game.
I'm glad someone finally said it
said what? there’s more than one thing being said in the video. or did you just come here to post this to add to the negativity because that’s all you’re interested in.
Honestly I'm not as disappointed with grizz as some other people. Like the whole thing about "It was so obvious he was a bear" was the point imo, it was (admittedly, a little too obvious) foreshadowing. Like similarly to how they hinted it was Callie talking to you in the radio at the end of the s2 boss fights, iirc. As for why he can do rocket science n stuff, they could somewhat easily use a similar explanation as why squids evolved so quickly. Something something the human ideas and consciousness made him smarter, something something. Why would Mr Grizz need a red herring anyway, most inklings probably don't know what a grizzly bear is, for all they care it's just a cool name inspired by a dead animal. Overall good video though, I agree with most of what you said! I do wish the characters were fleshed out more, and that octavio did more than show up, die, and help save the world at the end.
the only reason people en masse have a problem with grizz being a bear is because a small handful of the largest splatoon content creators on the english speaking side of the internet said they didn’t like it. 100%.
I think why it was a bit underwelming is because they are going to build on it, cuz i rember being a kd in splatoon 1 and the lore building was AMAZING but we didn't have enough for the full picture. Maybe thats what is goin on with the mammalians. And i do agree, anythin can be improved on, but overall imo and im sure u agree but the splatoon games and lore and charatcers r pretyy GREAAATTT, unique, and r a breath of freash air with personality and charm!
i think they couldve just done: neo 3 is interested in octarians and wants to learn about them, sees a poster or whatever for the rock area, fights them, mini boss is deep cut instead of dj octavio, they fall, deep cut helps neo 3 instead of squid sisters, and deep cut wants to take mr grizz down because he is a capitalist or something idk
the biggest ??? I've got with the motivations of Mr. Grizz is... We've got 2* Cats? & those Cats are very Public? He's not the last Mammal at all;
There might already be a bunch of characters involved, but even just a 'they are not enough' would have helped;
We got baited so hard by them showing the Judd scroll in the ROTM trailer only for it to not matter at all. It really does feel like they should have at least been acknowledged
I would've loved if, when grizz first awoke on earth, he actively seeked out Judd to try and find solace in someone, but Judds nonchalantless about the extinction of mammals made grizz furious and spurred his quest to resurrect them. A sort of duality between the two, where grizz cares too much about mammals, and Judd cares too little.
I feel that plays into it hoenstly. Mr Grizz was SO obsessed with bringing back the status quo he couldn't be content with sharing the title of "last mammal" with two cats, because that's still not enough for him. Its all part of how he's glorifying a past he barely knows anything about and how he's denying the present day.
@@sarafontanini7051 The issue is that, like most things in ROTM, that’s an interesting idea on paper, but nothing in the game actually suggests that is how Grizz feels. It would have been a cool idea to include, and it works as a headcanon, but it is not something expressed by the game itself
26:14 no… you’re skimming over established Splatoon lore. Judd and Lil Judd can talk. There was no millions of years of evolution that granted them that power. They just can do it after hyper sleep. Which Grizz also undergoes to a degree. There’s nothing wrong with Grizz being able to talk.
I've addressed the Judds in a number of other comments already. In short, I don't think cryosleep is a good explanation for ANY of those characters being able to talk. Judd is a minor character whose existence is a remnant from when the game was about rabbits, and while he has been worked into the canon of the game, he essentially serves as a tutorial and a UI element. Grizz is the main antagonist of the game, and as such I think it makes sense to hold his backstory to a higher standard. If anything, I think ROTM should have told us why Grizz can talk and ALSO why the Judds can talk, as their intelligence is one thing that has always been overlooked by the lore. I get that you're saying I'm holding a double standard, but that's because Grizz is a significantly more important character than Judd; in my opinion, his lore matters more.
@@TheCosmicCloud “minor character?” Judd judges the results of EVERY TURF GAME YOU PLAY. That’s not minor. He’s incredibly important to the overall gameplay narrative!
Now you’re just pick and choosing what you want to be important. Judd has been there since day 1. His backstory is the reason Turf battles even function in-universe of the game. He’s there for every match you play. Sunken scrolls talk about his significance in the great turf war. He’s no less significant than Sheldon is.
You can’t take all that and go “oh he’s a minor character.”
The problem isn’t the lore, the problem is you don’t want to engage with the lore.
@@jimlight5137 I guess it’s a matter of opinion? I would not say Judd is important to the narrative. He’s a part of the game’s multiplayer, and has some lore tying him to the humans and the professor, but he is largely unexplored as an actual character. Narrative is not the same thing as worldbuilding. He has not contributed to any particular Splatoon story at all
@@TheCosmicCloudI’m just flabbergasted by all this. I do not understand you. Because you’re supposed to be all about the lore, and then you’re just dismissive of anything that doesn’t interest you within said lore.
Like, Judd was part of the great turf wars. His whole ability to determine the outcome of a turf battle at a glance is not only the explanation for how the multiplayer campaigns work, but it’s also the reason the inkling society by and large isn’t KILLING each other anymore because now they can engage in friendly battles instead of waging wars! He is technically revered as a GOD by the inklings!
Lore-wise Judd is VERY important to the word building of Splatoon. Like I’m not trying to be facetious here… you don’t have to care much about Judd… but you should be able to recognize that he’s a big part of the history and lore that make up the games.
Every piece of detail about characters or events in the story is part of the world building. That’s why Splatoon has such a RICH world to explore! I do not understand why you seem to choose to ignore parts of the world build and dismiss it as not as important as others when it’s all contributing to the same overall tapestry.
28:47 lil Judd and Judd can TALK. They didn’t do anything differently either than be cryogenically frozen. If that works for why they can talk in Splatoon 1, why doesn’t it work for Grizz in Splatoon 3? Stop ignoring established lore to complain!
This video mentions a lot of the issues I had with ROTM, but I was one of those who weren't bothered at all by the Mr. Grizz reveal. In fact, it was maybe my favourite moment in the campaign. Personally, I had never even heard of the "not-actually-a-bear" theory (which I imagine is the case for most of the fandom), so there was no disappointment from that. The shock and amusement came from the fact that this 'deep voiced grizzly owner of a shady business', who had brutally kidnapped cuttlefish, who was the final enemy of the story mode, looked like a cute bear.
I almost feel like such a diversion of expectations, Mr. Grizz actually being a marine creature, would've mostly just been confusing, and even disappointing, to most fans. I always wondered how a bear could still exist in this world, and the story gave me an satisfying yet sad answer to that. I had never considered how it would feel to be the only bear left in the world, yet it made perfect sense in retrospect, in the sense of his motivations.
While I think the story had quite a few unsatisfying plotholes and unexplained things, I don't feel like Mr. Grizz was one of them. The possibility of a mammal surviving/existing was established with Judd (as rare as it was), and the intelligence aspect to me felt like the same case as with inklings and octolings, especially since that was clearly stated and explained in the story mode moments prior. In my understanding, Mr. Grizz inherited the will and dreams of the scientists, hence why he was so smart, and partially why he wanted to so desperately return mammalian life to earth (other than his extremely depressing circumstances). At least, that's how I understood it while playing. I feel like the end message was about unity and understanding of different beings. Of seeing past our differences? The human will and spirit? Something like that.
I do feel like the story was originally maybe meant to be a little different, but ultimately it was then made to be mostly understandable to most casual and even newer players, which is what I think they prioritized. And I enjoyed it. It didn't break my immersion whatsoever, since the possibility of a bear existing was well established already in splatoon 2.
ORCA was probably my biggest disappointment, but I quite enjoyed the Mr. Grizz storyline, from someone who played a lot of salmon run in splatoon 2, and wondered what was up with him. The ambiguity was fine to me too, but I understand how it could've been frustrating. I only wished all the different story aspects were more connected.
-Opinion of a casual lore enthusiast.
I've seen a few comments defending Grizz that all have different explanations for how he became intelligent, which I think demonstrates the exact problem I have with his backstory. Grizz's intelligence is an integral part of his character; I don't think it should be something we should have to make guesses or theories about. I totally understand that it can be fun to fill in the details with your own ideas---it's a huge reason I love the other games so much. But with ROTM, I really feel like we needed more solid information than what we were given, especially in terms of Grizz. A bear *existing* is fine, but for that bear to be sapient and able to speak is a whole other story
@@TheCosmicCloud I suppose that's just ultimately a matter of different preference. The ambiguity in that aspect doesn't bother me, but I can understand why it could, especially since this was meant to be an ending to a trilogy. I would've liked a more conclusive information, but, again, it didn't negatively effect my gameplay experience.
That being said, and I forgot to say this in my original comment, but I greatly enjoyed this video! It was very interesting and gave me an different view. I immediately went to check out your other videos, and it's good stuff. Excitedly await your side order video!
i finally get why return of the mamalians felt so... weird to me! there are so many details lost in the cracks in a franchise i adore most for its attention to detail.
unlike questions like "who made this specific graffiti sticker?" the questions raised but not answered in RotM are much bigger and right at the forefront of the plot, characters, setting, history, and all...
i wonder if we really will get some answers in the future. will they be good answers?
This video was able to explain a lot of my issues with the story and characters of Splatoon 3 in a way that I never really could on my own, but I feel like a lot of these issues stem from the fact that Return of the Mammalians has the responsibility of being a finale to this first saga in the Splatoon series. Like you said, the story is at its best when focused on fleshing out its original content, namely Alterna and Mr. Grizz-- but because this is the bow that's tying the whole trilogy together it feels like it NEEDS to include more. It needs to have every character from the past two story modes (plus Agent 3) because they've always been here, and Deep Cut needs to be here for... reasons? Because every idol has a part in a story mode, and the DLC is about Off the Hook?
In any case, it pulls attention away from the new stuff, and can end up making it feel unfinished. Part of why I'm personally already excited for Splatoon 4 is because, assuming it is in fact the start of a new saga, I'm interested to see what the writers can do with fresh ideas, and a fresh batch of characters
Absolutely. Like I mentioned in the video, Octo Expansion felt like the "true" end of the saga to me, so I really wish ROTM wasn't held back by trying to fill that role. I'm super excited to see what they do next now that they have the opportunity for a fresh start!
The reason why you're excited for Splatoon 4 is why I dread it. It's supposed to be the beginning of a new saga, and discard all the previous characters. But I just can't stomach that, because the supposed grand send-off to this saga was so severely botched that it can't end here in any satisfying manner.
@@WretchedRedoran I don't think they're going to completely discard the old characters; in fact, I don't want them to either, since that would go against Splatoon's great sense of continuity. I'd love for old characters to still come back as side characters and cameos, but I'd also like the next game to have a story mode that uses newer, or even entirely original characters, and doesn't feel the need to shoehorn in all of the same characters we've been seeing since Splatoon 1 like Rise of the Mammalians did
My issue is that. Where the hell did octavio go after entering alterna.
I dont think unreasonable to believe that a character who did nothing but think for 12000 years would become super intelligent
It's just the fact there are so many other story elements that already existed that could have explained his intelligence better. We could have been told that the humans were scared about going extinct and began conducting strange experiments to implant human intelligence in animals. We could have been told that Mr. Grizz absorbed the liquid crystals and was guided by the passive desires of the Alternans.
Instead, we're told he was awake while he was sleeping. Beyond the fact that it logistically just... doesn't make sense, even if I were to suspend my disbelief about that particular detail, it feels like there were so many better ways they could have gone about it
@@TheCosmicCloud that is understandable, great video by the way I hadn't finished it before I commented lol
@@TheCosmicCloud I dunno, I think it made sense. Lucid dreaming is a thing, sleep paralysis is a thing, the line between dreaming and wakefulness are a lot blurrier than people think. 12,000 years trapped in your own head is bound to radically change a brain
@@Shinntoku But would it change it for the better? I struggle to see how a bear trapped in one room would be able to learn complex thought and *language* of all things. Obviously we aren’t meant to think about the specifics, but it just feels like a lame answer to what could have been a much more interesting and logically sound backstory
@@TheCosmicCloud I just think all the pieces add up without needing a more detailed explanation. Mr. Grizz was experimented on and then spent 12,000 years trapped in cryosleep while still being conscious and that's the exact scifi recipe I would expect to result in a hyper intellegent animal. Also I don't think it was necessarily a change for the better, Mr. Grizz was unable to accept the change in the world until the very end, and prior to that he was essentially just imitating the humans that raised him, performing experiments on himself and trying to return mammals to the globe
I won’t lie my first impression of Deep Cut was that they were kinda annoying and felt strangely out of place… except for Big Man.
Honestly my main problem with return of the mammalians is that smallfry is just… never explained??? Why does new agent 3 have it?? Why does no one question us having it?? Where did he come from? Is he a pet? Why does he evolve at the final boss?? Like literally what is going on with little buddy
in an interview sometime around the time of the first fresh season they said smallfry has some relation to the junk that agent 3 was profiting from and somewhere along the line they helped eachother out or something.
Can’t say I expected a 40 minute video talking about how much they don’t like Return of the Mammalians to convince me that this is my favourite Splatoon story mode, even after experiencing all of them over the years.
And I have to say I’m impressed that Mr Grizz’s reveal was the biggest fakeout I’ve ever seen. It was a double fakeout where they put up so many signs hinting towards him being a bear yet refusing to show his identity to convince people he wasn’t a bear, all to make the big reveal that the wooden bear is in fact a bear all the more surprising. 10/10 the devs will never let somebody say “I expected this”
Biggest issue is that the main war between Inks & Octs was mostly wrapped up by the end of Splatoon 2's side story. They couldn't use any of that material again, without backpedalling alot of the first two games. Meaning they had to introduce new elements for Splatoon 3 to work. A new villain, with new motives but keeping all the formula of levels, bosses, etc.
Two choices:
1.) Introduce a new party which was never mentioned before now and try to shoehorn them into the established lore and plot.
2.) Take from the lore of humanity's extinction to build into a threat, which was lying in wait for Splatoon 3 to strike.
Grizz is the best case scenario, outside of having actual humans show up. He's atleast thematically tied to the lore and themes of the series but you're right in that none of the other characters have any motivation beyond protect the status quo. There's no meaningful connection because Grizz's character is based entirely in lore and secrets, which nobody else as reason to interact with.
I feel like the devs were like, “you know what, this would be funny” for like every part of this. One of the devs: “hear me out small fry becomes big fry.” Nogami: “YES give him a raise.”
i feel like i might be missing a part that has to do with your frustration with Grizz. sure, he has an uncharacteristically cartoony design compared to the game's style, and there's no explanation for why he's smart and can talk... but can't that all also be said for Judd? he's a cat. he was made immortal, but nothing i can recall was injected into him called "have human intelligence and also talk" juice.
The difference for me is that Judd is not a main character. I DO wish Judd had a better explanation for his intelligence, but it's easier to overlook when it's a minor tutorial character who has no relevance to the game's narrative. Mr. Grizz is the main antagonist of Splatoon 3, so I would expect his backstory to be more thought-out and clearly communicated. If anything, this would have been the perfect opportunity to explain Judd as well, but the game does neither
I was genuinely interested in the downfall of the humans so my fav part was just collecting the Alterna files
I always have been iffy about Splatoon 3's story and its characters, and for the longest time I couldn't point out why that was. After watching this I could definitely see why that was the case. Splatoon 3's story could've easily been atleast one of the best campaigns if they put just the SLIGHTEST bit of effort into the story and actually making it make sense. One of my favorite things about Splatoon is how they made such obsurd things like talking sentient squids shooting ink make sense and actually be interesting, but in Splatoon 3 it feels like they didn't try at all.
omg i had never noticed how insane splatoon 3s story is lol
Your script writing was really great for this video btw i loved it :3
Here's what i saw about splatoon places on story mode
Splatoon 1: in Octo valley areas look like skateboard 🛹 area. And half of the areas are floating. All of them are floating in one location. Not anywhere on ground or even on undergrounds. Plus the ufo that is floating on final level sends you up in space like space station place. Or somewhere. This place is literally confusing as we're floating in middle of areas.
Splatoon 2: not as big as first one on octo canyon. Small places around to walk. But on cephalon HQ you're on like a sea of murky paint that looks polluted and poisoning. Then we go underground for real on final boss that is different from the crater. Could've added a legit fortress or underground base like. But nope. Stickers and new deco didn't spice anything up for octarians.
Splatoon 3: Finally some place to explore on crater where we go down and such. But sadly we can't go anywhere else on crater but down and deep down. Alterna is good and all but half of the areas are sunken and some are still lingering. None of the places have any purpose to explore or understand 😕 what will happen next. Cuz most of the area is covered in cold ice and cold water far away. And we can see the broken tv like cieling.
Worst of all? No sign of "Mammalians" to exist at all or even being called. I won't even add mr grizz since he's one of the only mammal. If anything rabbits should've been Mammalians army. Just like how kirby and forgotten land made their own Mammalians for real The Beast Pack.
Splatoon has been focusing on parties and events yet they didn't add anything more adventurous and world wide exploration. Its like you're in one whole region and that's it. Nowhere else. No other regions to explore.
Plus they only add 4 bosses every game. I want more bosses and tougher ones and i want us to pick our own weapons/subs/specials that isn't DLC like or cost worth.
I was skeptical when i clicked but I totally understand and even agree with you. Big Fry and Grizz and the lack of explanation of the levels bugged me but it took you putting it into words for me to finally get it.
I’ve been saying this forever and people shat on me for it, I could never put into exact definition what made splatoon 3’s narrative more disappointing than the first two games but suspension of disbelief nails it I think.
Randomly telling us it was Grizz all along and then delivering all the lore through the logs and in After Alterna, was an insult. Splatoon lore has so much potential but it gets wasted like this
The story of RotM proved to me that the development of the Splatoon series is torn between two directions: one wants the series to appeal to kids and therefore relies on zany spectacle, while the other wants the series to also appeal to adults and therefore takes the worldbuilding of the universe very seriously. It seems to be the former that takes priority, though, and in RotM in particular, it just didn't care about being consistent with the internal logic; it just slapped some set pieces on the table and left the "serious" team to fill in the blanks. Also, for some reason, the serious team prioritized explaining how sea life evolved to become humanoid, something that most people invested in the series had already accepted since the first game. Don't get me wrong, it was nice to see a more definitive explanation that covered a few existing holes, but maybe they should have focused more on the immediate story.
Hi, I'm the guy with the funny name "M. Grizz son" who was in Cosmic recents live and as you can imagine, Grizz is my favorite Splatoon antagonist as well as one of my obsessions and I too would like to give my opinion on it since I'm also a lore obsessed guy. So I'm going to try to be concise because when I develop too much I tend to get distracted. We'll start with something simple. Octo expansion have to the best story of Splatoon and I doubt that will ever change. The developers clearly went deep into the story for this DLC after all it's a DLC that made us play our "sworn enemies" And I'm also going to be honest but I consider that the main story of Splatoon is It's over with Octo expansion. I really had a hard time seeing what could be added. What ELSE could we tell with this story so obviously my personal expectation for the story mode of Splatoon 3 was that the story uses elements that relate more to the world before. After all, it's our world but after a 5th world war. I was also one of those who found it "too easy" that Inklings and Octolings were like that because "natural evolution"
And following the announcement of the story mode which confirms to us that history will teach us about their origins. Translation:Scroll which will teach us more about their origins and I was excited because it also meant different things. Obviously I was expecting returning characters and I have absolutely no problem with that since that's not what I expected from the story mode. Let's talk about Alterna's logs and what I think of them. I'm not going to lie...It was really depressing and several times I felt sad and generally unwell. And that was what I wanted.
I got the explanation I needed. Then there's Mr. Grizz. I much prefer Mr. Grizz to Tartar. And yes I know that they have similarities but there are huge nuances and these are nuances that are often ignored and that annoys me because it means that Mr. Grizz is very often mischaracterized. Tartar wanted to DESTROY EVERYTHING to rebuild everything with HIS vision of the world and the perfect species. Heck Tartar despises the Inklings because their way of having fun disgusts him even though they managed to transform something horrible (the "war") into something fun and harmless (turf war). Tartar couldn't stand that the Inklings were so different from humans and ended up getting it in his head that he had to recreate it better. Tartar is by far the character I hate the most in Splatoon (And it's not even to be mean, on the contrary hated an antagonist is almost normal for me it just means that the devs did a good job. And if people like him it's good too because they have their writing etc. Just I hope you don't validate his actions) Then there's Grizz. First of all, I absolutely loved the fact that Grizz was a bear for 2 reasons
1:It added a lot of realism to the end of humanity because let's be real,if we where about to disappeared we would have saved animal species to recreate our ecosystem also it makes things more believeable because I can accept everything in the present with the Inklings but for the backstory which is that this is OUR world,I'm more I'm a little more picky. Then the fact that just our fashion style and music is what was there would have been really ridiculous. Having Grizz be a Bear who is also a Bear from one of humanity last hope mission made the world much more credible and coherent
2:I was one of 4 people who doubted that Grizz was a bear since the begining
Likewise I love Grizz's appearance. His grotesque appearance is once again consistent. I think we can all agree that being alive for 12,000 years is going to have some weird side effects (even more so for an animal) and an important detail is the fact that he didn't just create the Fuzzy ooze. HE IS Fuzzy ooze. And his appearance still has to do with that. We have seen that the Fuzzy ooze has particular effects on Octarians and Octoling/Inkling so knowing that and that Grizz created the Fuzzy ooze with his OWN FUR and that he is literally covered of it,so his appearance is once again logical. Even,honestly,more coherent than that of Tartar at the end of Octo Expansion (Which is just him but with weird ink on his head)
And obviously his plan. On paper it seems identical to Tartar's plan but in reality they are totally different. Grizz wants to recreate the world he knew but doesn't want to destroy anything on the contrary he doesn't even hate Inklings and Octolings. They even seem to respect them a lot and even appreciate them as we can see from his dialogue in Grizz co in Splatoon 3 (Yes I know that these are pre-recorded voices but precisely. Who recorded them? Mr. Grizz) Fuzzy ooze actually only transforms cephalopods into mammals. And even its creation is less fucked up than Tartar's Sanitize ink thingy. And when you think about it, each antagonist of Splatoon has a connection with the past
Octavio wants revenge for his defeat against the Inklings far too long ago and then against squidbick Splatoon in Splat 2
Tartar is so disgusted by the current world that he wants to recreate the past world but more "perfect"
And finally Mr. Grizz, the last of his species who finds himself in a land completely different from what he had known. Then after more than 12,000 dreams and this deterioration he ended up having a better intelligence and wanting to recreate a world similar to another time. A world where these like were present. But he never showed any real hatred for the world, all Grizz wanted was just to feel like he belonged. And even contrary to Tartar, he finally realized and accepted that it was impossible and that the current world will have a much better future. I do not validate Grizz's actions clearly his plan was NOT a good idea and he is not really a good person but like Octavio he realized his mistake and accepted the future
Obviously, as much as I like the story of Splatoon 3 and prefer it to Splatoon 2, I'm not going to pretend that it surpassed it. As I said at the very beginning Octo expansion has a better story and the story of Splat 3 has several gray areas but I am sure that we will end up having all the answers we need one day and that knows. Maybe this explanation will make me love Mr. Grizz even more
I hope I managed to be clear and I apologize for any possible mistakes I use google translate
17:14 okay this is getting into bad faith arguments here. The rocket was surrounded by fuzzy ooze. It’s not something we didn’t know existed, we were well aware we couldn’t get there through all that ooze.
@@jimlight5137 We knew that the Ooze existed from the start, but we were never told that it was our goal to make it to the central island. We only knew that we were looking for Cuttlefish, who we understood to NOT be in the rocket. If the characters had agreed that the rocket was our goal from the very start, and explained that as the reason for collecting the treasures, there wouldn’t be a problem. The obstacle just isn’t presented to the player until after the point it would’ve made more sense
@@TheCosmicCloud it’s literally dead center of the map… they’re hope that Cuttlefish might be somewhere easier to get to doesn’t change the fact that he was likely in the middle of the map.
I listened to the soundtrack a while before playing, and the story the soundtrack implies is way cooler than what we got. All the ingredients are there for the coolest Splatoon story ever, yet the execution falls flat.
I am so happy you made this video. CosmicCloud get out of my head. It's such a validating feeling hearing someone having the exact same opinion of you that is typically seen as negative and the lesser opinion.
I do wonder how the developers will approach the campaign in 4. I enjoy the formula of side order, but I feel like that formula would evolve better if it returned as a hybrid single-player and multiplayer mode where you run solo or with a team. I personally was getting tired of the mission formula during the latter half of ROTM.
There are so many level parts they have compiled over the last 9 years that you do start to see the repetitive nature of these missions. Oh, a level with sponges. A level with ride rails. Oh hey, pop the balloons. Get to the goal etc. I'm just hoping that the level design evolves rather than being iterated on with the next campaign. I want to see the designers go wild and create environments that use all of these 'gimmicks' but together in a much grander way. We've learned these mechanics, let us use our brain at levels that make us go aha! I got to use this ink wheel here etc, rather than the solution being in plain sight. Take a page from the metroid series and craft platforming segments that feel natural. There's got to be a point where the 'glorified tutorial' ends, and I'd argue it has to end much sooner to really get deep into level design that's not just difficult but also satisfying to conquer, with collectables strewn throughout.
Anyways- yes the lore absolutely does matter. Splatoon 3 does feel the most 'video gamey'. I also had the same reaction to the mr grizz reveal because it was so painfully obvious and the splatoon series seemed to be avoiding doing the obvious thing since octo expansion was such a shocker an unique experience for me. The reveal that craig cuttlefish was captured by grizz also happens so early into the alterna parts of the campaign that it also hindered my enjoyment. The only remaining mystery was oh god- is he a bear or is he not.
Not to mention the lack of fuzzy ooze inside the levels and smallfry-specific levels. Why create this cool feature only to use it in the hub world and... what? 2 levels??
Splatoon is at its best when the level design, lore and story all complement each other. And unfortunately, in my opinion, rotm does not achieve this. It's all spectacle with no mystery. The levels are merely test chambers. Levels. How come there's this giant city in some levels and it's not explained? The contrast between alterna and the chambers is staggering. I'm so tired of this formula of 'let's create this cool BACKGROUND and fill it with floating blocks.' Let alone many assets taken straight from octo expansion. I could literally count the different girders and ramps because I played octo expansion so many times it was frustrating to see these same ideas used again.
I wanna end with this last point- 'It was rushed' is such a crappy explanation that I see people use. OK?? that doesn't give it a free 'GOOD' pass. I know game development is a long and arduous task, but MAN. Please I need to feel excited about Splatoon lore again. I was super excited for the splatlands but we got something so minimal. I hope 4 takes place in the splatlands again because I know there's lore there just waiting to be discovered... at least I hope.
I agree entirely. My feelings about ROTM's gameplay are about on par with my feelings toward the story. I talked about this at length in a video already, but every single part of the campaign felt like missed potential. I was super disappointed to not only see ideas reused, but often used in less interesting ways than their original introduction in past games.
I'm generally conflicted about where I want the series to go in the future, because I DO like the linear mission structure when it's done well (I still love Splatoon 1's levels), but it does feel like an overhaul is warranted at this point. Whatever they go with, I just hope there will be more thought put into how the aesthetics and gameplay can support one another. Octo Expansion was satisfactory for me, because despite having abstract floating blocks it still managed to create a cohesive vaporwave/ 80s aesthetic that related to the story's themes of nostalgia and introspection. I don't know if fully fleshed out environments will ever be something we see in Splatoon, but I would love to see stages that feel fresh in their design and intentional in their aesthetics.
@@TheCosmicCloud idk if you’ve played any of the 3D Metroid games but they share a lot of similarities to spaltoon. Sci-fi, shooting enemies and platforming and bosses.
Idk if you’ve seen the splatoon 3 art book but in the one megalopolis page they showcase the platforms being made up from broken roads and themed to the level background. THIS IDEA WOULD HAVE BEEN SO GOOD???
My problem with the current mission structure is that you have no incentive to replay the stages after you complete them with all the weapons and beating your time.
There’s bowsers fury which also could be an interesting format they could take inspiration from but it’s also somewhat done in splatoon with the hub world. Do they expand the hub world to be bigger ? I honestly don’t know.
I just want splatoon to wow me again. I want to be invested like I used to be. No joke the crater segment is so cool in ROTM since the environment and the levels are themed together.
I feel like rotm is the matter of too many cooks in the kitchen and trying to bring Octo expansion ideas to the campaign.
I guess what I want is something truly new. I also agree that splatoon 1’s levels were so memorable. I like how they took ideas like broken buildings and little fortresses full of enemies etc and ever since it’s just been floating platforms.
If you haven’t played any of the 3D Metroid games I highly recommend because I so hope splatoon does level design like a metroidvania some day- with the style of mirrors edge. Mirrors edge is closer to spaltoon in style and environment but I hope the level design is closer to metroid some day.
You've articulated a point that's had me tongue-tied since the DLC came out. Thank you for finally putting a point on it- I can see the pieces of a much better story in Splatoon 3, and that's the part that stings the most. Here's hoping that wherever they take the series next, it'll live up to the high expectations previous entries have set up. GO TEAM PRESENT!
so glad somebody made a video about this ive been starving for more splatoon lore-related content
FINALLY someone who can put into words what I’ve felt this entire time
OOOOHHHH MY GOD SOMEONE GETS IT ABOUT THE GRIZZ REVEAL. People kept going, “It was so obvious he was a bear, why did you expect anything different?” BECAUSE THE BEAR HINTS WERE LAYERED ON SO THICK THAT I THOUGHT HE *COULDN’T* BE A BEAR. Me five years ago in 2019 thought, “Surely he isn’t a bear, right? They wouldn’t just, spoil Splatoon 3 like that, right?”
Yes, past me, yes they would. It feels like genuinely incompetent writing for Mr. Grizz to be a real ass mammalian bear, and nothing will ever change my mind.
I think almost every about Mr grizz as a character would be fixed if he was replaced by a human
Like you could still cover the existential elements of being trapped in a world you no longer understand trying desperately to return to the place you once knew.
While still having a precedent to exist within the world, hell I’d probably be better than if Mr grizz was executed perfectly since humans have been a part of the world since the very begging and you could almost have an element of this last human passing the torch of humanity onto inkfishkind, plus you can still do other interesting in regards to Mr grizz, perhaps incorporating salmon run more (seriously ROTM grizz has basically nothing to do with salmon run)
Thematically, that might work, but in terms of lore, I'm not so sure. I'm biased due to my own interpretation of the games, but I personally really hope we never see an actual human in Splatoon. Similar to Grizz having cartoony proportions, I feel like seeing an animated human in-person would break the "illusion" of the game's world. For every instance of humans we've seen in Splatoon, they have always been depicted with realistic proportions and features (Shellendorf skeleton, NILS Statue, Alterna photos, etc), which helps to sell the idea that this is not a work of fiction, but our actual future. That dynamic is a huge part of my love for the series, and I don't want it to be damaged any further than it already has been
@@TheCosmicCloud the only way I could really see this working if they were essentially a brain in a jar type villain with a body made of technology and a TV screen face or something of the sort instead of a plain human that would probably clash artistically.
Think something like Porky from Earthbound except we can hide the human body within via means like “they’re just a brain” or “they’re in a coffin-like chamber on the back of the machine or “they’re in some weird test tube with their features obscured”.
@@TheCosmicCloud I disagree on the idea that you can’t animate a human without them being cartoony, I mean a simple anime esque style could fit well enough in splatoon’s artstyle and with human anatomy while still being weird and alien in a way
Plus throughout the splatoon lore humans are heavily mystified, they are the ancient civilization trope that is responsible for most of the crazy tech the world has and disappeared under mysterious circumstances, actually meeting one and it turns out he’s a total wreck could be a compelling “mask off” moment while also reminding us of what humans really are, complicated messy creatures who act on animalistic instinct as much as we act on reason
Though changes would need to be made, I’d imagine this human character wouldn’t be defeated, but rather redeemed, realizing his plan is a folly that will only bring unneeded pain upon the innocent people of this new world and maybe his plan itself would more involve recreating humans (to little success) before attempting to unleash unto the world
Idk it’s an idea
16:58 it’s… it’s not “literally no reason.” It’s treasure. They’re bandits. They were trying to steal the treasure. That’s why you fight them. They don’t know or care why you need the treasure.
@@jimlight5137 Yes, Deep Cut wants the treasure. But why do WE want it? We enter the boss kettles hoping to find Cuttlefish. Instead, we find strange objects with no apparent purpose. There is no good reason for the protagonists to collect these items outside of the game knowing that we will need them later. I just think it’s a case of lazy storytelling
@@TheCosmicCloud it’s no less lazy than finding the “thangs.” And there is a reason. We think they might be important, but we can’t tell what they are until we collect them. Signals point to these locations so they must have some value… why wouldn’t we want to see what they are? Why would we just leave mysterious items behind if we’re looking for a way to rescue cuttlefish?
@@jimlight5137 The Thangs have an explicit purpose from the beginning of the story. We may not know exactly what they are, but we know we need them in order to escape to the surface. I personally like that, because it gives the protagonists a clear reason for collecting them while still allowing room for mystery, which is then paid off during the blender construction scene.
Comparatively, the treasures just feel like an inexplicable plot device. There is a reason for the blender parts to exist in Kamabo Co; there is no reason for a giant razor to be stored in Alternan vaults. Due to its odd design, it doesn't really work as foreshadowing. Most players will probably just not know what it is until the answer reveals itself anyway. It's simply a less effective use of a similar idea
@@TheCosmicCloud that’s a fair criticism, but a rather weak one in my opinion. You can not think it’s clear enough without resorting to calling it “out of nowhere” or saying “for some reason” a million times. Cuz there IS a reason for its existence. And a razor in an area dominated by hair isn’t that wild of a leap of logic either.
I’m surprised you didn’t compare Mr. Grizz to Judd. They are both bizarre and out-of-place characters, but Judd works while Grizz doesn’t. And Judd proves that Mr. Grizz being a bear *could* have worked, but the execution was sloppy.
It's no surprise that Rassicas hated it (he seems to dislike any idea of Mr. Grizz being a fully developed character, and he’s explained why a few times). I think he expected Mr. Grizz to be human or another Inkling-both incredibly bland and nonsensical ideas, especially given all the buildup around him. Mr. Grizz had been built up in two key ways: 1) as the founder of GrizzCo, which was already clearly a sketchy, small operation moving from one big location to another, with only one boss contacting you through a radio, and 2) as a bear; there was literally so much evidence hinting at this. People were disappointed and acted like it was a random bombshell, but if you were paying attention, you’d already have figured it out. Any other possibility wouldn't have made sense and would’ve been boring and disappointing. It’s like how there’s now a huge setup for Lil Judd to take over GrizzCo; ignoring that just because "they already left clues" would be ridiculous. Of course, the clues they dropped are leading to something real-that's the whole point of foreshadowing.
@@cultoosk While in retrospect it does seem obvious that Mr. Grizz was going to be a bear (at least since the release of the Ruins of Ark Polaris map), I think it was perfectly valid to expect or want Grizz to be something else. Normally if a character obscures their face in a work of fiction, it’s to build a sense of mystery and keep the audience guessing at what their true appearance might be. I was right there with Rassicas in thinking that Grizz could be a number of things, including an existing character or some other kind of evolved sea creature. No one knew for sure what Grizz was going to be, and there’s no reason to be rude or disrespectful toward other people over their feelings or reactions to a game. You aren’t smarter than anyone for thinking Grizz was going to be a bear-that was the most obvious guess anyone could have. Also, Rassicas uses they/them
@@TheCosmicCloud First off, I apologize if I came across as rude toward Rassicas; that wasn't my intention. In a couple of his videos (or streams), he mentioned that he'd prefer if Mr. Grizz were revealed to be human. While I agree it’s possible that there could still be a human left on Earth in Splatoon, I don’t think it would make sense for a human to be behind Mr. Grizz. The point I was trying to make (and I mean this respectfully) is that if Mr. Grizz turned out to be human or an Inkling, as Rassicas suggested, it wouldn’t align with the story because there haven’t been any hints or clues leading to that possibility. My respectful question to Rassicas would be: Why does he think it would be better for Mr. Grizz to be something other than a bear? If Mr. Grizz were revealed to be the last human, an Inkling, or another species, what build-up would logically support that? A plot twist only works if there’s some kind of foreshadowing, and it feels odd to introduce something completely random without any buildup. I'd also like to hear why you think it could’ve played out differently or what other outcome you might’ve liked or thought made sense for Mr. Grizz.
@@cultoosk To be honest, a lot of people were hoping that Grizz would not be the antagonist of Splatoon 3 at all. I remember thinking it would be unfortunate to unveil his true identity just one game after his introduction, when he could have been built up across a longer period of time and given more time to develop BEFORE his big reveal. In a perfect world, there would have only been hints of Grizz's identity scattered throughout Splatoon 3, while his actual in-person appearance would come some time in the future.
Of course, with the reveal of ROTM, many people believed Grizz was going to be involved. It was easily assumed that he might be the one attempting to bring back the mammals, but we didn't have any confirmation that HE was a mammal himself. Grizz likely knew of the Ark Polaris bear, but that didn't have to mean he WAS the bear. And the bear radio would make a lot more sense if he wasn't obscuring his appearance through a device that... shares his appearance. While there wasn't any solid evidence of him being something *other* than a bear, it was left vague enough that he could have been *anything.*
Some people wanted to see a sea creature scientist who was obsessed with the mammals of the past. Some people thought it could be an AI remnant of the humans like Commander Tartar. Others thought Grizzco could have connections to Lil'Judd, DJ Octavio, or the Professor. There was no reason to think any of these options *couldn't* happen, and it felt like the developers *wanted* us to speculate about Grizz's identity. The AI/ prerecorded voice idea is actually something that was hinted at in a dev interview, which is why many people now believe that is how Grizzco functions after the events of ROTM. These kinds of teases from the developers got people excited about all of the possibilities of what Grizz could be.
It's not so much that the evidence was already there, but the potential was. Grizz could have dropped hints throughout Splatoon 3's story itself to make the reveal less random (something I think they should have done even with him being a bear). While it may have not been directly foreshadowed by previous games, this would allow the bear radio and the Ark Polaris bear to serve as red herrings. Casual fans of the story would assume Grizz to be a bear, while dedicated followers of Splatoon lore would know that there could be *anyone* behind that radio. Grizz being a literal bear was disappointing to a lot of people because it rendered all of this speculation pointless. It wasted one of Splatoon's biggest mysteries on the most obvious answer. And on top of that, his backstory didn't even make sense.
@@TheCosmicCloud I totally agree with your point about Mr. Grizz not being the main villain for Splatoon 3, especially considering how Salmon Run and GrizzCo were first introduced in Splatoon 2. If GrizzCo had been introduced back in Splatoon 1, it would make more sense for Splatoon 3 to reveal Mr. Grizz’s true intentions, giving us a seven-year buildup before we learn the real purpose behind the company. I always thought it made sense for Mr. Grizz to be an actual bear, especially with the theory that he was eating the Golden Eggs to become more powerful; like how GrizzCo’s illegal weapons boost stats significantly. I imagined he would evolve into a massive Kaiju-like bear, which fits the Splatoon vibe. I was excited to see Mr. Grizz as a big boss in one of the games, but his execution in Return of the Mammalians (ROTM) felt underwhelming. I think it would’ve worked better if Splatoon 3 had a different storyline, saving Mr. Grizz for Splatoon 4. In that case, maybe GrizzCo could have shut down the Salmon Run program and started a new one focusing on different animals like sharks or whales. This new program could have tied more directly into the main story, with mutant Salmonids replacing the Octarians as enemies, similar to Octo Expansion. The weapons could have been GrizzCo weapons, but slightly nerfed due to the lack of Golden Eggs after the shutdown. I honestly wanted Mr. Grizz to be portrayed as a real bear, not a mutated one. It would have made more sense for him to just be a massive, powerful bear, especially with bears’ natural love for salmon. Maybe he could have eaten the Golden Eggs, gaining powers that upset the Salmonids and led to their invasion in the story mode. They could have been infected and more intelligent as a result. Overall, I agree that Mr. Grizz and ROTM would have been better as a story for Splatoon 4 or a DLC, while Splatoon 3 could have had a more focused storyline on humans rather than the fuzzy mammal theme. Thanks for sharing your take!
Great video, sums up my issues with this game pretty well, especially how disappointing Mr. Grizz was.
Something you didn't mention in your video is the Salmonids though, and the "save our salmons" message from Splatoon 2. There's this weird ambient problem in the series right now about the Salmonids and how we still pretty much don't know anything about them, we don't know why Inklings and Octolings are willing to blindly murder thousands of them, we don't know what they want, we don't know why they invade cephalopod spaces, all we know is Mr Grizz, who is supposedly dead but actually not dead, still needs a billion of their eggs to do... something, even though he's dead.
I was hoping Return of the Mammalians, where no Mammalian returns except Mr. Grizz by the way, we shed proper light on the Salmonids' role in the series.
i was prepared to be mad at this video, but you adressed everything adequatley and just. From mr grizzs body to the strange gameplay elements.
the one thing i am usually mad about were people getting mad that grizz is an actual bear (coughrassicascough), because it WAS so obvious, because it wasnt a red herring, because everything else would have been weird actualy, and because it just seems just weird and hypocritical for the quasi elitist lore enjoyers getting mad that nintendo didnt confirm their headcannon correctly
The main reason I would say it wasn't obvious is because we had been explicitly told several times that all mammals besides the Judds were extinct. In retrospect though, yes, they were definitely trying to hint that Grizz was a bear. If he had been given better lore to explain why he was a *sapient, talking bear,* I wouldn't have nearly as much of an issue with his visual design
@@TheCosmicCloud agreed,
edit: also, since we see the world from its inhabitants point of view, the judds being the only mammals THAT THEY KNOW OF is kind of the point why grizz existing isnt a contradiction
@@jowi_ It was explicit developer intent that there were no mammals aside from the Judds. Please don't try and play it off like anyone who disagrees is a spaz.
@@WretchedRedoran you know developers can...lie.. about future content, or come up with new ideas that, by all available information, doesnt break preestablished lore, or in the worst case, retcon, although i dont think this is the case here, since it was heaviliy implied previously
Also i never "called people a spaz" whatever that means, i simply referred to a meme that says "did you really get upset at the story or just that your headcannon didnt get accepted" or something along these lines, you know what i mean
criticism is one thing, but nearly getting a mental breakdown over it (coughrassicasseeinggrizzforthefirsttimecough) is maybe a sign that you take this all too seriously and shouldnt take the developers interviews as gospel only to then disregard their decisions once they made it into the game because it makes you upset specifically (and yes im gonna pull the "its just a silly squid game card" with this)
(the "you" in this was to a metaphorical third person, a strawman if you will, i didnt mean -you- specifically, just clarifying this since people misinterpreted my words in the past, if they want to disagree with what i say then atleast with the right thing, sorry if this is unneccessary, but just in case)
@@jowi_ My comment regarding the explicit developer intent of there being no mammals aside from the Judds wasn't really directed at Grizz, but using Grizz to justify saying things like "actually, there's nothing that says there can't be marine mammals!!1!" and going on to spread misinfo about, say, marine mammals in Splatoon (the narwhal stuff from Pearl in Splat2 was a fabrication by the NOA localisation team). I'm fine with Grizz being a bear, I'm just really upset with how he was handled. What my real problem that I failed to convey was how I fear people will inevitably use Grizz to spread ideas about the state of mammals in Splatoon as fact when there's no evidence directly from the devs to support their statements like there was with the foreshadowing of Grizz being a bear in Splat2, and that those of us who object to that will be disregarded as fools.
I feared that you were one such individual who would disregard me as a fool, simply because I care.
im so happy that this video exists. ive had my gripes with rotm for a while but im unable to really articulate myself as well as others.
i was really hoping rotm wouldve been about the salmonids and fleshing them out more, and to see that they only get ONE sunken scroll about them really disappointed me.
i think the only way to fix rotm is to rewrite it entirely
The dialogue from Frye being given to Glen Fiddler at 21:16 made me laugh uncontrollably.
ローカライズでクマサン(Mr.Grizz)の性格が本来のものと真逆になったせいで、英語版のGrizzはキャラクターがぶれていると思いました。優しくて親切だけど底知れないクマサンが、実は海産物とは相容れない存在というのが気に入ってます。たしかにすりみ連合の存在を持て余していたり、もっと色んなシーケンスが見たかったです。
I hope we learn more about Mr Grizz and the mamalians in Splatoon 4 all we know is he’s a lonely experiment bear who makes squid people and octopus people work for him and collect eggs for him for some reason? Why does he want fish eggs? What is he doing with them..?
I have mixed feelings on Mr. Grizz because while I wasn't the biggest fan of the single player in this game + thought the reveal was a bit disappointing, I kind of disagree with the idea that it was a completely unprecedented idea that there is just a big talking cartoon bear in the game. because.... there *is* a precedent for funny talking mammals in splatoon lol. two somewhat-anthropomorphic intelligent cats from when humans were still alive and who speak through Garfield thought bubbles have been in the games for a good while, one of them since the very beginning
in general I think the developers are having a tough time bridging that gap between the fact that splatoon is a goofy cartoon game for children and like, the more "serious" parts that the fans seem to enjoy more.
While i think that the fans can often verge on the end of taking the game a bit too seriously (and by this I don't mean "the game being important to them" but "seeing what are supposed to be lighthearted jokes or just a weird funny thing as Serious"), i would be lying if i said I wasn't any less compelled by this story mode than, like, octo expansion
The existence of the Judds is often used to defend Grizz being a bear, and like, yes, it’s weird that there’s an immortal talking cat. But Judd is a remnant from when the main characters of the game were rabbits, and he isn’t important to the story. If anything, the Judds being the token mammals of the Splatoon world only makes Grizz’s reveal even more annoying and out of nowhere. We were told for years that all mammals were extinct except for the cats, which is why so many people thought Grizz literally could not be a bear. I feel like we should hold the final antagonist of the trilogy to a slightly higher standard than the funny tutorial guy
I get what you’re saying, though. I think there are a few cases of them writing themselves into a corner, and the overall tone of the series is pretty inconsistent. Still, I think committing to making the world more and more believable over time, only to suddenly introduce more weird talking animals and magic fish, is frankly just kinda baffling
@@TheCosmicCloud I mean in the end he ended up connecting to a important person in the lore tho and he did set a precendent for mammals to be in the series. I mean the series proved exceptions exist so who knows. And like both have importances in the lore really, tutorial character or not, like Judd directly connects to the professor who is a pretty important person in the lore.
@@Jdudec367 Judd is important to the lore, but not to any particular story. If Grizz was spoken about in a handful of Sunken Scrolls like Judd is, it wouldn’t be such a big deal. But Grizz is the MOST important character in Splatoon 3’s *narrative.* If there was any place to elaborate on the existence of mammals, Judd OR Grizz, this was the place to do it. It doesn’t make sense to obscure that information when it would directly support the story being told
@@TheCosmicCloud Well yeah they aren't the exact same but both are important to the lore. I disagree like they clearly wanted the reveal of Grizz being a mammal to well be a surprise really, so obsurcing that info until later makes sense really, and in the lore we know there are rare exceptions to there being any mammals at all like Grizz and Judd, so I don't know what else they could elaborate on really.
Mr grizz should have been a random guy who is the leader of a mamal cult full of octarians.
It could have explaned a lot of things like why there are octarians and why they are not just balls of hair.
He could even keep the bear symbolism by experimenting and maybe fusing with the only survivor of ark polaris, a normal bear.
The deep cut rivalry could have been stoped by just saying that they dont care about the treasures and simply want cutlefish and the zapfish.
The test facilities dont make sense though.
This really opened my eyes. I had never thought about most of the points you brought up, and the more I thought about it, the more the cracks began to show.
You know, this honestly explains why I sorta haven't thought of the singleplayer too much in this, you really nailed it in this and honestly the story, and lack or rather misguided lore that's aimless. It sorta reflects how the actual gameplay has been, this pertaining to like, maps, weapons, etc.
Like idk I enjoy Splatoon 3 but they're just a lot of missed potential... and this just added to the list. Thank you though it was very nice to listen to this c:
This is so real i have the concept of grizz being an actual bear and order just existing like ok ☹️
They took the mystery of splatoon and made a really random "magical" story instead of building suspense or slowly revealing the world to us
This guy gets it, this guy understands. Says all the things in my mind that I never was able to spout from my mouth. Thank you.
The way RotM turned out disappoints and upsets me so deeply. The devs wanted it to be a grand send-off to the characters we know before it's time to move on, even grander a finale than Octo Expansion, and it was so absolutely botched, in such an absolutely upsetting manner. I remember feeling a sickening pit in my stomach after beating it. I felt it for the days that followed. To think, *_this_* is our grand send-off for the New Squidbeak Splatoon, the last we'll ever see of it? The last of the Agents, the last of Octavio and his Octarian society, the last time we'll ever see any one of them be relevant again? And it was so utterly botched and unfulfilling, with no second chances?
11:46 “destroyed themselves in a desperate attempt to cling to the past” this will definitely age well with the splatfest results!!!!
Seven years ago, I believed that Mr.Grizz was some kind of aquatic mammal(was really hoping for an Orca or even a dolphin(Flipper Flopper copying the form and dive of a one) Like, an Apex predator, long forgotten by the world.
While I get that it's established in the lore that all mammals died out, I always hoped that one aquatic mammal would survive, it would have been so cool especially when on certain logos(I think the fruit boxes in Hagglefish Market? You see Orcas used) An aquatic mammal maybe could have worked as it's even shown in our time how intelligent porpoises are!
Then again explaining the need for the eggs could be difficult, I get that. It's also been observed that orcas are pretty brutal hunters and love to play with their food? Being so particular they only want to eat the livers out of sharks and nothing else, degloving penguins out of their skin? it's crazy what orcas could/would do to things they know they can kill.
I can totally understand the disappointment from the story aspects of the S3 campaigns. Personally, if I was making the S3 singleplayer, I would have Cuttlefish, the Squid Sisters, and Octavio stay above and out of Alterna, and instead you meet up with Deep Cut at the start of Alterna. Then, Deep Cut would follow you around for the length of the campaign, rather than the squid sisters. This would give them much more time to be characters.
However, I can excuse the lackluster story, because the gameplay makes up for it. ROTM has the best level design and hub world of any of the free to play campaigns, and Side Order shows the gameplay of Splatoon single players maturing past simple platformers and shows that Splatoon could totally function as a really fun single player movement shooter, while also being something to do if your offline, which Splatoon has really needed.
I always felt like the devs were always trying to “figure out” the story modes in Splatoon. Compared to other games with campaign modes, they were always pretty basic. The first “saga” is really messy to me. The first game was their first game, they weren’t necessarily sure where this series would go. The second game was rushed out for the Switch, so it just did the first story again. But the third game is completely different than the other two, and it doesn’t feel like a wrap up to the story they’ve been building (which isn’t really all too much to begin with). I’m hoping with the start of a new saga, they’ll have a better idea of where the story will go, to make for a more complete, linear series
While it wouldn't have fixed everything I feel like a solution to Splat 3's story (without changing too much) would be to have Deep Cut working for Grizz. Instead of looting Alterna they're here to keep people OUT of Alterna because Grizz is paying them to do so. And then it's only after Grizz has revealed his plans that Deep Cut join forces with the Squidbeak Splatoon because they realize what's actually happening here.
I have to say I usually dislike return of the mammalians critiques as most of them just boil down to mr grizz being a bear = bad.
Even though i was a bit anxious seeing you drop this video, and the longest chapter also being about grizz, I liked all your previous videos so I knew you would probably have only the best takes and show this story some justice, and I couldn't agree more.
ROTM really was set up to be this grand finale of the splatoon story we had so far, the stakes were really high up there I mean I remmember all the hype we had around the hidden "Save our Salmon" texts and what not. The main issue really was just the story, well not telling its story. At most they would give you the big picture, like Alterna being the last human hideout or Mr Grizz being directly connected to the Ark Polaris, and then just not filling it out.(which btw when we had the bear activity sign, i knew FOR A FACT grizz would turn out a bear and then when he actually was that was like my own personal victory i went FERAL)
The story has massive holes which who knows if they will be ever answered.
I wanted more human lore, more past earth lore, more grizz lore, more lore about little buddy for crying out loud and ROTM just didn't deliver.
Though on a positive note this leaves MASSIVE room for headcanons, I am a huge advocate for people writing their own lore, making their own stories, characters, whatever, hell even just changing things they dislike to something they vibe with more.The splatoon community really is unlike any other in how just creative it is and even till this day I've seen great Alterna stories made by the community.
In all honesty I just wanted to say how i really liked your analysis of the splat 3 story, imo you even managed to make it more positive than negative, which was really uplifting to me. I think we in general should focus now on the things we liked about the story - its not like its going to change, and we dont know where the story is headed maybe splatoon 4 will be even worse xd
Your channel really is a gold mine, and I am glad we have lots of people like you in our community.
(And also thanks for not making a 2 hour long video of just bashing my fav character
I fully agree with the idea of headcanon. Personally been trying to craft my own Splatoon mythos with some new characters and reinterpretations of characters for something fun. I found this video gave very clear ideas about the flaws that exist in a clear way for this setting and about Mr. Grizz. Things I want to think about when it comes to my setting of RotM.
@@AuraNova26
Yess totally, me and my bestfriend have literally been writing our own lore into anything we like for years.
It really is such a great feeling to take something you love to heart and then just make it even more your own, doesn't help that I am totally obsessed with everything cephalopods xd
I hope everything goes great for you and your story, wishing all the best !
I think a big part of why Splatoon 3's story feels so "off" is because most of the original developers no longer work on it. Since the developers for Splatoon were also the developers for Animal Crossing, Nintendo decided to hand off the Splatoon IP to some of the less experienced developers, leaving the original Splatoon team to work on AC exclusively.
That aside, great video! I also had a lot of issues with Return of the Mammalians and this video brought a lot of things I'd never even thought about to my attention. The only thing I disagree with is your point about Mr. Grizz's intelligence. While I do find it a bit odd and I wish it was better explained, we've seen examples of intelligent manmals in the past, those being Judd and Lil Judd. It's in no way out of the ordinary as we can assume Grizz became intelligent the same way the Judds did. Though again, some lore explaining it all would be nice.
The biggest problem with 3, like you say, is the overcomplexity. Splatoon 1, 2 and OE were overtly basic.
1 - fight the Octarians, they want revenge!
2 - fight the Octarians, they're trying to get revenge again!
OE - fight Tartar, he's trying to grind together competent Octarians so he can create a utopic world!
All of these are simple. No grand complexity save specific headcanons and cultural points. Wonderful!
3 - Fight Grizz & Deep Cut. You also have a Salmonid. Also, Grizz never met Judd, so he's mammal-bombing the world. Also, Grizz somehow stole the Octarians and mammalified them. Also, Deep Cut joined in for the loot (it's not worth much, ah well). Also, NSS is there! For some reason. Also, sun-drying happens, again!
There are innumerous incongruent pieces. In isolation, sure, they're fine. Together, it's a discordant mess! The developers had a plethora of ideas for the game, but only the bare necessities are considered. One can see this in multiplayer, too; Tableturf wasn't completed until months to one year later, most of the stages/world in the art book & certain shots in the trailer are simply absent from the main game! This problem continues...
Side Order - Fight Order! He's from Final Fest (Splatoon 2), from Octarians who didn't wish to abandon themselves to assimilation. Also, he's a literal fucking baby who "just doesn't get what he wants" and needs to change because "womp womp times are changing quit crying". Also, Marina's reaction when seeing a long-lost friend is "yo what's up!". Also, Pearl becomes a robot. Also, the elevator apparently doesn't work, Acht *NEEDS* to be there because it just leaves autonomously. What? Huh????
Fundamentally, Splatoon 3 is a technical masterpiece. However, that leads me to think that the developers had little idea what to do and just went with whatever they could throw at a wall. It certainly reads (in code) like it!
who is NSS?
@thewanderingchelmet NSS = New Squidbeak Splatoon
I feel like deep cut was “defeated” too soon
Looking forward to hearing your thoughts on side order after seeing this. It would be interesting to see the contrast between how the base game and DLC tell their stories.
i was a little scared to watch this at first, because i love splatoon 3, but i can see now why it would be frustrating if you're an old time splatoon fan. splatoon 3 was my first splatoon game and i went through it completely blind to the story of the first two. so from the perspective of someone who didn't know anything else; i loved splatoon 3! mindless fun with bits of deep lore to be found scattered about. i loved piecing together what happened on earth before everything went down, and grizz's backstory tugged at my heartstrings. if i could i'd wipe my memory and replay it! i can't tell if i'm glad that i came in this late, though, or if i'd rather have been there from the beginning. i think if i had been i might've missed out on the joy splatoon 3 gave me.
I felt that ROTM was one of the best Splatoon stories that we had gotten- but it was mainly for the lore dump in the Alternan logs. Thanks for making a video that sheds some light on the more... obscene parts. While I still believe it is not the worst story mode we have, this was expertly written. In contrast, I don't have the highest of praise for Side Order. I can't wait if you do plan to make a video on it!
(Also I rarely comment on videos, so this is a real great exception. That's a sub from me :D )
Even if Return of the Mamallians wasn’t all what it was cooked up to be, Mr. Grizz is definitely the cause of the Salmonid conflict that was set up since Splatoon 2, and it will be very interesting to see how the Salmonids will escalate their invasion on Inkadia.
I just wanted to add what makes splatoon 2 so amazingly wonderful is that it encapsulates and represents the liberation of oppressed minorities. Black people especially! The octo expansion game play, Marina and Pearls story of how they met, and even the outfits the two of them wear in the game. The necklaces they wear are reminiscent of the one Tupac was well known for wearing, and Tupac’s impactful rap and music was about the human condition and black liberation which is so exciting to me as a black person myself. I can go on and on about how much I love splatoon and how it is able to be used to speak on humanity and social issues!
I love the lore of Splatoon 3, but I will never forgive them for NOT explaining enough about the fuzzy ink. Like, WHY are the octarians fuzzy? HOW did they ended up like this? WHY do they work for Grizz? Why do they look like that, meanwhile the player becomes a fuzzy ball that can't move when they get into contact with the fuzzy ink?
Octarians are one of my favorite parts about the lore. They obey DJ Octavio in Splatoon 1 because he's their leader and you, Agent 3, is trying to steal the Great Zapfish from them. In Splatoon 2 is almost the same. In Octo Expansion they are sanitized octolings that obey the commands of Tartar, and we are explained WHAT sanitization is, HOW does affect someone, WHY would someone end like that, and WHY do the sanitized octarians want to attack us. We even have Dedf1sh lore explained by the devs, wich adds even more depth as to WHY someone would CONSENT to be sanitized and being part of Kanabo Corporation.
But all of that is NOT explained with the fuzzy ink and Mr Grizz, and that just dissapoints me SO much that you can't imagine.
stealing the octarian army maybe was intentional bait from mr grizz, to lure us in and get his hands on cuttlefish. and then the test facilities were there to keep us away once he got cuttlefish. maybe he has been observing our past adventures and chose to mimic them to his advantage. but still, no idea what cuttlefish's essence actually means