Worship Leader Reacts - Practical Worship Pedalboard Rig (You MUST Play It!)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 18 ก.พ. 2021
- This is a true worship leader reacts video. We react to a worship leader who has a unique approach to his electric guitar rig at his church. This video has received a lot of flack...and so I dive in to figure out why. Remember, let me know your thoughts in the comments below...do you like his approach? Would you serve in his ministry?
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#worshippedalboard #worshipleader #guitarpedals
Dave has good intentions. I think it would be tough to practice at home, on my rig, to then play on a different rig on Sundays.
I agree with both statements. My church as served on staff with as a WL provided a solid "loaner" board (VP Jr., Boss TU3 tuner, Line 6 HX Stomp, Boss DD-7, Boss RV-5) for those who didn't have gear. If you were scheduled to play you picked up the board after second service on Sunday and had it for the rest of the week to play on. It was a risk letting it be loaned out, but it worked well and it made it so people didn't feel controlled.
We did however require people who brought there own board to run through the stomp on an AC30 patch if they didn't have a digital amp solution (Bias Head or Kemper) as we wanted to avoid a Peavey 5150 from showing up! :)
Yeah, that's my main takeaway. I could deal with it all...but I'd want to take it home...and in his follow up video (th-cam.com/video/4PjyxHY2wmU/w-d-xo.html) Dave agreed that he would be more than happy to send it home! So that's good to know.
Also. It disincentives buying your own gear. Bought a Kemper? 1500 gone bc you can’t use it.
In my experience, when everyone has their own setup, the way one player is using their gear can be inspiring to another and it kind of builds to all of us having a better sound over time. I also can’t see myself tinkering as much at home knowing that I won’t get to play my own gear live, and that seems sad to me.
I feel that
I'm a sound engineer first and a guitar player second. Knowing that a church is trying to pull off a consistent quality of service week-to-week, and sometimes having to do it with volunteers who are not experts, I can say that this is a REALLY solid way to go. Imagine having a somewhat rookie guitar player AND sound tech on a given Sunday. The sound tech is just learning the board and barely getting beyond setting levels (not yet comfortable with adjusting things like EQ, compression, gating, routing, etc.). Then a green guitar player shows up with his pedalboard and the sound is overly bright, or terribly muddy, or way to quiet or way too loud. This combination could easily make for a situation where the congregation has to suffer through... which is the opposite of the point of having a worship band to begin with. If we're not doing everything we can to bring people to God and we're focused on our own desires of "I want to do it my way", then we're doing it wrong.
good word
Those “bowteek” pedals will get ya
I agree, a lot of thought went into the gear (minus putting the volume pedal on the front end 😉) but making that mandatory, not optional, would be a deal breaker for me. Not that I would mind playing through that setup but making it mandatory is more about control than tech and in my experience that controlling attitude would bleed into other aspects of the ministry. They don't want guitarists, they want robots.
The real question is this: When you go to rehearsal mix and see and there are 8 electric guitar parts - what do you do? I'M TALKING ABOUT YOU, PHIL WICKHAM. Anyway - we need to tell Dave he needs at least 5 of these rigs on stage for these critical moments.
But for real - I do find it odd that churches typically provide literally everything for every musician except guitar players (and sometimes bass players). I've had a few situations where I auditioned and scheduled a new keys player, and the first time I they played on a Sunday, they carted in their entire keys rig from home. It makes your heart sink, because you either have to tell them they can't play it, or you have to spend the next 90-600 minutes patching it into your system.
Why would you not have a conversation before Sunday about expectations and the like? 🧐
Haha! For real...lots of guitar and keys tracks up in there. I gotta be honest, when I see a keyboard player bringing in their own rig I get excited! And that really goes with any position...I like seeing musicians take ownership of their sound....but just like Dave said....sometimes that backfires when "their sound" isn't great, or the gear doesn't work. Definitely have to strike a balance and set up clear expectations, which is what I love about Dave. He's killing it. Thanks for watching!
As an audio engineer, dealing with the unexpected comes with the territory. I've had on multiple occasions, situations like this: being told 10 minuets before the "band" starts that its not a rock band, like they told be in the email (guitar, bass, drums, keys), but is actually a 7 piece African band with instruments I can barely pronounce (some of which were built by the musicians) and I have to both clear the stage and set it up mics for instruments as they are coming onto the stage, I then play a game of "Guess the gain stage, compression and EQ" as the "band" is being introduced, they then start to play and I have 30 seconds to get a rough mix done. In that kind of situation the Patchlist kinda goes out the window 😂
The whole 8 guitar tracks is becoming far too common. I'll be the first to admit that in this area I am old school in that if you can't play it live, don't record it or expect there to be some missing parts live. I don't like playing along with other guitar tracks. It feels inauthentic. I like to go through the parts, find what sticks out and what drives the song and arrange everything into one part and take all of the guitar tracks out. Unfortunately lately the church I play for is starting to insist on keeping tracks in and for me it kills the vibe.
100% agree with later point. I just joined a new WT for a new ministry. They have NO gear. The WTL kinda plays synth, but he mostly plays acoustic. The ministry said this week, "I want to get a budget for microphones for all the singers and a keyboard and keyboard amp for the KB player (which ...we dont even have)" I was... offended. Yeah, really. A good microphone costs what, $100? Why can't a singer buy a $100 piece of equipment when the guitarist has to spend thousands?
I am a worship leader and worship musician who plays electric violin, acoustic violin, electric guitar, acoustic guitar, ukulele through effects, and sings and writes my own worship songs. I play, lead, and sings in various churches in the US and overseas. Everywhere I go, every worship team I play with, I bring a different sound that many people have not heard before, all for the glory of God. Sometimes I play multiple instruments in the same service, and it is important that I use my own pedals as I know exactly how to dial it in to work for the different instruments. Wherever I go I am disrupting the "consistency of sound" that churches typically have in their normal services.
Many churches I go to, the worship team have never played with an electric violin player, and during rehearsal my electric violin sound is forcing everyone on the team to readjust their own sound. Through playing with me, the electric guitarist, keyboardist, bassist, drummer, and singers are all changing their styles whether consciously or subconsciously. When I am playing my electric violin on a worship team people change the way they play and sing, and it is all for the good of bringing glory to God.
So if you are going for consistency of sound in worship you would probably not want to invite me to play with your worship team. As a musician, consistency of sound is a good goal if you are a touring band playing in a different venue each night to a different audience. Consistency of sound is not good if you are playing for the same audience in the same venue over 50 times a year. I have been playing electric violin for over 20 years now for worship, and my gear and sound has changed drastically for the better over the years. I have upgraded my instrument, pedals, amps, etc. and if I have sought consistency of sound as a goal I would not be growing as a musician or as a worship leader. To have the same sound for 20 years would not be a sign of growth or improvement!
As a songwriter, every new song you write is releasing a new sound. You will not have consistency of sound if you are writing and singing and playing new songs. New songs demands new musical arrangements. You can only have consistency of sound if you have the same instrument set up each week and don't incorporate new instruments.
I think God values freedom and creativity more than perfection. I believe in consistency in the sense that we need to be faithful in serving the Lord. This world, where the seasons change every 3 month, where the color of the sky changes everyday, points to the creativity of our God. Yes it is much easier to have the same pedal setup, same band setup each week, but shouldn't our worship reflect the nature of our God? And isn't worship supposed to be a sacrifice? The time and effort that I put into creating my pedalboard to release the sound of praise is my unique worship to the Lord. It is a part of my sacrifice to Him. No one else on earth can bring that exact sacrifice but me.
I love the thought of having something for those who don’t have gear. However I’d much rather want my players to have their board all week at home to tweak their sound before coming to church. I’m shocked by how upset some people seem in his comments 😂
This is what I think...I wanna practice with and set up my effects at home so that I'm ready to go as soon as I arrive.
Yeah, that was my main issue as well. In his response video (th-cam.com/video/4PjyxHY2wmU/w-d-xo.html) he said he would love for the guitarists to take the rig home if they wanted to practice. So that's good to know...but then you gotta deal with accidental breakage of gear. May not be worth it if that gets abused too much.
We had a board like that for a while and it ended up just not getting used a lot.
Very cool to have something like that available IF it’s needed. Seems a little controlling to force it though. If you want to have that level of control over the guitar sound, you may as well just run tracks.
I’ve played guitar in worship bands for over 20 years. I have bought and sold a bunch of gear over the years. I have hauled amps, pedalboards and guitars into and out of multiple churches and worship venues I have spent the time to set them up, sound check them and then pack them up later. To be able to walk in with a guitar or two and play through pretty good gear is actually kind of attractive to me. Another plus is you are not putting stress on all those cables each time, including the cables between pedals so they will fail less frequently. I do love my own gear but I totally get their point.
This setup is still solid. The M9 still does all the basics well. Tons of players would love to play through a rig that nice. I’ve played at churches where you literally walk on with your guitar plug in with their cable and play. It was nice not carrying a rig around.
I think the key here that they have got right is that the board has been built with the input of the guitarists at the church. One struggle we’ve had is that on our set up the decisions have been made with external support and input from inside seems to be left by the way side, which does squash creativity a bit. Plus it’s harder to dial in our own tones when time with the board is limited because we’re sharing it.
Something we’ve been going through at church recently as we build up our gear and this has been really helpful to see that there’s no right or wrong, a great check of the heart and great content as always Jimmy!
I still occasionally play at a local church where there’s no isolation rooms for amps, and it’s not the biggest sanctuary. They told me coming in that I couldn’t play my pedalboard, but they provided a helix for myself and my friend playing electric 2. Weird at first because I had never touched a helix, but ultimately I got used to it and they had some great presets built. Definitely easy only bringing my guitar. I can see the pros and cons of Pastor Dave’s guitar set up!
Similarly, I’ve also been in situations where I can play my pedalboard but have to play through an amp I don’t like. Or, the sound guy moves the mic directly to the center of the speaker cone... 💀 Lord help me. Heart checks for sure 😂
To continue adding thoughts - in most situations, I would say there’s normally a trust that whoever you’re bringing in will have gear that sounds good. However, 12 yr old me with my little digitech rp90 and $100 solid state would’ve thrived if I had access to a board like this 😂
All these are good thoughts man! thanks for being here! 12 years old me would love access to this kind of gear as well!!! It's all perspective
If I came in with my pedalboard and was then told to play through that, i would walk out
hahaha..fair
If they told me I'd have to play through that before committing to serve, there'd be no "walk out" on my part because I wouldn't have walked in. I'd have them prayerfully consider asking a different person to volunteer because just as I don't need to serve on a P&W team, the Lord doesn't need me to serve on one, either.
I usually try to respond to all comments, but wow...this video really struck a chord. Thank you all for watching and commenting and sharing your perspective! If you're interested in seeing Dave's reaction to this reaction, check it out here: th-cam.com/video/4PjyxHY2wmU/w-d-xo.html
I’ll plug into any rig or straight into any amp and rock it. Everything on the board Is everything you need. Nothing stops you from adjusting a knob or turning something off. People complaining probably don’t play anywhere or use equipment that good. First and foremost, when I’m playing in church I’m there to serve the Lord. Not show what an individual artist I am.
Love it man! 👊🏻
Man, outside of church I’ve been a full time musician for the past 10 years and also attended two different music schools. I’ve played on more rigs that were not my own than I’ve actually played my own rig out live. School amps, church amps, club house amps, back line on the road, DI solutions, backup amps, pedalboard failures, etc. Sure, your own gear is more comfortable. But seriously, it shouldn’t make or break the music you are playing. As long as the fundamental tone is decent, the rest is not that big of a deal. No one will ever notice the length of the delays, or the placement of the volume pedal, or the transparency of your overdrive. Just make the best music you can and put the focus on Jesus. Just my two cents.
If gear is more important than unity, heart checks are probably needed.
Wow great way to put it, 👏 you can have the best rig but suck at playing 😂😂
I agree with your point to a degree bro, but while Jesus and touching the heart of God should be the number one and primary focus with every musician and worship leader, this whole you can't use your gear is a little bit much. And yeah the congregation won't notice, but part of the fun is putting your rig together. I think God cares about our hobbies and the things we enjoy doing, and the little things like what delays we have and whatnot. So I think this is kind of a wack situation.
Part of learning is struggling through all the necessary steps, INCLUDING gear. "Teach a man to fish" applies here. Giving junior players top-shelf gear will enable them to feel entitled to gear, and/or de-value pro gear. The struggle is part of the process.
"giving access to pro gear" *proceeds showing gear that people sell at garage sales*
I get the idea of being consistent with sound, but let people who own their own stuff use it. 99% of the time it WILL sound better, and if you have buzz, go buy a power inverter and run the pedalboard off of a battery. Honestly, I'd spend way more time adjusting eqs and parameters on the house board to get a good sound than I would trying to find a buzz and fixing that (pull off power from one end to the next and see when it stops, takes 3 minutes tops).
What is a good setup for modern praise n worship. I see things from helix to the big hitter pedals like the big sky, what dovu consider a board that would be good enough for all you needs and be reasonable in price. Im new to making a board. The amp would be a Fender hot rod deluxe for reference
Is it weird that I can tell this board was put together when the "United We Stand" album came out?
I’ve played at churches that do this, and would be happy to any time. As a worship director who leads from electric, I get how important your gear is to your sound, but I also understand how important it is to be consistent and value the time of your volunteers - time that disappears quickly when trying to set up a different rig and dial it in each week.
I actually just upgraded my amp recently, and as excited as I was to get it all dialed in that first Sunday, I used my old rig for the sake of time. There’s nothing wrong with a church having a house rig imho, and usually if the church is going so far as to provide one, it has the resources to do so with a high level of quality.
We also need to remember that we are not JUST musicians. We are not just creatives. We are facilitating, encouraging, inspiring and exemplifying worship, in spirit and truth, to the One True God. It’s not about us, or expressing ourselves. It’s about Jesus Christ.
I totally get why his congregation does this. Our own sound guy would LOVE a setup like this. HOWEVER, for me as the electric guitar player, I like to spend several hours a week tweaking my sounds for that week's worship service. Our keyboard also likes to create sounds from scratch. The down side is that the sound is not 100% consistent from week to week. And, when another guitar player (or keyboard player) comes in with different gear, it has a completely different sound profile from the previous week's. The far bigger UP (in my opinion) is that we are not homogenized. We have our own unique sound, rather than simply mimicking the sounds of Gateway, Hillsong, Bethel, and Elevation. And this is the best shot we have at steering clear of the rut that so many seem to have fallen into.
Never underestimate the value of your own sound! The sound that God imprinted upon you when He made you. The Father created each of us beautifully unique.
I think it’s a great setup for a church that has a few young guitar players that want to learn, but are overwhelmed by all the gear out there. Let them focus on getting used to just playing guitar and the effects part will come later. I’m sure that as players in that church use the gear and get better with it, they’ll give feedback and the rig will evolve over time. It’s a great way to help young/inexperienced players grow.
I don’t know any guitar player who doesn’t have too many pedals already, or isn’t jumping at the chance to buy more pedals.
Dave is awesome. I don’t know him personally, but we used his video to add some LED tape lighting and his video was super helpful. I agree that consistency is valuable when you have multiple players at different instruments. Especially if you’re live streaming. I would say consistency for me is less the tools and more the end result. Was it clear? Was it impactful? Was it excellent? If a guitar player can accomplish that with their board then that is the best option. We did make a switch to all digital at my church so at the most if you’re not already set up for a digital amp rig we have an HX Stomp with some amps ready to go.
How can arrange my pedal board . . Chorus ,reverb,distor and delay only . . Where is guitar would be and the amp
I do: guitar > comps, drives, > Volume > modulation> time based effects, delay, reverb > looper > Amp
I have two different thoughts about this. In general, I like to be able to use my own gear, especially on guitar. It's hard to practice the parts if the sound and effects are going to be different on Sunday. On the other hand, as a volunteer, I don't often have a lot of time to work up sounds, especially when there seems to be at least one new song that I haven't played before, every time I play. So, if I could just focus on the parts and not the effects, I'd be more prepared. Big question for me is: who is programming the effects?
This video is a few years old and Dave has moved on to another church with presumably a different set up. The issue only partially addressed by having the church provide electric guitar gear, or keyboard for that matter, is how do the players come prepared for rehearsal, ie knowing the song parts ahead of time which includes tweeking guitar effects or patches which can and do change from one section of a song to another and from one song to another. There's still work to be done at home by the worship musician with "gear" before showing up to play at church.
Sounds like a control freak with some pretty good justifications. It should be optional.
Players choice man. My tone is my voice.
Would you tell Carlos Santana he play his gear?
For worship services in a typical church, and on a typical Sunday, I see zero problems with the demand to play on a house rig. We aren't talking about featured artist performances full of original music. These are, essentially, cover performances that help keep the congregation connected to the message, engaged in the service, and excited about worship. What's wrong with the mandate to use house-provided gear that helps maintain consistency of tone within the genre and setlist and makes things simpler for FOH? As long as it's capable, sounds good, and is well-maintained, why not? The original video was made in 2017 and the rig he put together was perfectly reasonable for what was available at the time and for the purpose. Four years later, in 2021, the house rig would probably be even simpler: an HX Stomp (MIDI-controlled) and an expression pedal, for example, or a plugin on a DAW track, a tuner, and an expression pedal (maybe connected to an optional MIDI controller). One could easily make the argument that the less tap-dancing you have to do, the greater the opportunity you have to connect with the instrument, the music, the congregation, and, most importantly, the joyful worship of God. Looking at things from that standpoint, why wouldn't you do it this way?
As a guitarist I’m a little offended, but as the person mostly responsible for our A/V, including the livestream, I totally get it. Ultimately we serve within the zeitgeist of wherever we decided to worship. If this is the environment, then so be it. I also disdain the lockstep cookie cutter direction of super trendy hip churches, where everything is just a perfect “performance.” So I’m automatically a little cynical, which I have to check since I’m not in that congregation. So whatever.
personally, i love the way my church functions. they have kemper racks, and kemper floorboards as an option to use. most people run through their own pedalboard, and use the kemper for amps. people have the option to bring their own amps, but we have a great matchless amp tone dialled in that works great for everyone. and if someone doesnt have a board, they can use the kemper floor for effects as well. thats the ideal setup for me
In my church we're provided with a floor modeller but still allowed to bring our own gears if we so desire. As for Dave's video I honestly think it's a generous thing by their church and consistency really does matter when it comes to the intricacies of tone and beat of a particular song. If the church is blessed with it, who's there to deny, right? After all it is grace. If they have the capacity or talent or know-how to put it altogether and program the tones, that boosts every guitarist's confidence that they could hit the sound spot on. Not to say it should give us a bit of comfort by bringing only the guitar of our choice.
I agree with Dave. One thing I’ve learned as a Christian is to complain LESS.
That's always great advice!
I think it is incredibly generous of this church to do this for their players. I think it is awesome that there is a board, amp, and guitar that people can play, but it shouldn't be a "for them to play because they have to" it should be "for them to play if they WANT to." He talked about eliminating "time wasters" but I can almost guarantee it would take more time for most players to dial in their tone than it would to figure out a problem with most boards. He also talked about nuances in players and this is where I think he gets pretty hypocritical and contradictory. He talks about nuances with players, but in the modern guitar landscape, pedals, amps, and guitars are bigger nuances than the playing styles themselves. DO NOT GET ME WRONG, I think it is absolutely AWESOME that this church does this for those who don't have their own gear, but if players HAVE THEIR OWN GEAR, they should LET THEM USE IT. I understand where he is coming from, that is just my two cents lol
I just now saw this and I get and understand the worship pastors guidelines. I've been in many worship groups, and this was the norm. We used the house effects, as on here for the reasons. One guy who came in to sub just couldn't get his head around it and actually caused a scene. His argument was the same in the comments. But it was explained, the position of the worship musician is to serve the worship music, not their egos. So, yeah, like that one comment said, "a true guitarist will dislike this video". But I say, a true MUSICIAN will like it. I love my pedalboard but it doesn't belong in a service position. That church pedalboard has what is necessary for the service. The music pastor knows his stuff and his responsibility.
It looks like in Dave’s Church there are multiple guitarists that collaborate in the same worship team and this approach would likely work if everyone agrees on using this rig, and rehearsal the same songs, etc. However, it will definitely limit creativity and the musician’s feel, tone, etc. But I don’t really know how efficient would be if everyone is tweaking the effects every Sunday and on every rehearsal…
true
Maybe their sound guy has never heard of gain staging at the main desk
knowing that a player in that church will not have to worry about the amount of money he/she has to spent on gear is a great thought.
wandering on 'thetube' to find some info, a tubeamp seems to be the thing you need, together with some expensive guitars and pedals.
this approach does 2 good things. 1 makes it possible for talented players without money to use their G'd give gift. 2 does tackle the worst in us, being jealous on others who can afford those expensive things.
I don't know that I'd necessarily mind all that much. I don't get to decide the songs we play or, and to have autonomy to play whatever parts I want at any given time.
That said, having house amps is probably as far as one needs to go from a practical standpoint. It seems like in the end while Dave's approach would produce a more consistent sound all other things being equal, it also sidesteps a number of important conversations which might serve one better in the long run in the interest of saving time.
Our church has a helix they try to push on me. I just don't like it very much...Its ok. Are these guys providing the guitars as well? Different guitars, pickups require pedal setting changes.
My thing is you won’t have consistency of sound as different guitars sound different with the same gear. Example week 1 guy plays a Telecaster, week 2 guy plays a Les Paul, week 3 a Super Strat. Each guitarist would have to change the settings to get the right sounds from their guitar adding more time to rehearsal. Imho
Fair enough
I agree with you conclusions. We have a an HXStomp for our electric guitarist at our church. We run direct on everything so if someone wanted to bring their personal board they would be required to use the stomp. Unless they have a direct solution. We are an average church(100 people). We don't have space to properly isolate an amp. On Saturday evenings I'm dialing in everything perfectly for Sunday mornings. I would find it hard for someone to really dial things in when they don't have the gear to dig into it. I love having that there for people that don't have everything they would like. I feel like it would pigeon hole my musicians. Also, I would prefer to have more types of drive. I would have a Klon, tubescreamer, OCD and a form of boost and maybe a Timmy. Not those specific pedals but in that ball park. The sparkle drive is a tubescreamer style pedal that you can bring the clean signal back in with the knob on the end. I had it for a while it's a nice pedal.
I have a rather large collection of pedals (coming up on a little over 60 now). I build my own pedals. I mod pedals. I build my own patch cables. I build my own switching system (and by build I mean soldering parts together) and patch boxes. I do not cheap out on power (the bane of the pedal board). I own a tube amps, and I own direct to PA systems.
Maybe it's having a couple decades of experience under my belt, my audio engineering background or something else but I would have no issue what so ever playing that rig even blind including the electric they provide.
That rig has everything I would need (I said need not want) to rock a worship set. The only things I would want over what was provided is maybe an octave and a chorus. Otherwise that is a solid rig and I give him props for actually caring enough to provide a rig for guitar players.
I do not care about feedback settings of the delays. The odds that pedal board isn't setup well is pretty low. Those are all solid choices and since they set tempo via Abelton the timing of the delay is totally moot (and superior to tapping in times).
Hey worship leader: I could be wrong, but I'm fairly certain since you own a stomp you have heard the delays on the M9. I'm fairly certain that they carried them over, although I could be thinking about the HX FX.
My thoughts align with your own. The only tangible difference is that the backup board I've setup for the church is alconsisted of my "shelf pedals" that I still own.
Individuality is a huge thing for me, an ISFP. Leading a smaller church (120+), I fully support musicians when it comes to using their unique voices when coming into the band. If a drummer wanted to bring their dream theater inspired kit, I'd be all for it as long as they commit to coming in early enough to setup. Our main keyboardist likes to stay low and frees up the higher registers for the guitars. Our new keyboardist loves the way the high notes sound on her fave pad, so me, being the electric guitarist, will adjust my playing and dynamics to compliment either.
Edit: I'll ask use my auditioning time and relational skills to find out where their hearts and talents lie. If they're Detroit Rock City🤘 with a good heart, I'll make sure to schedule all the planetshaker songs on their week. If they really love country and more eclectic things, then it's WTK and Mercy Me. And I'm always talking gear with fellow musicians, so it'll always be communicated that we're using gear that doesn't detract from people's ability of encountering God.
Don’t disagree with their intentions and purpose. The biggest thing that’s missing to me is to teach them how to get the tone you want for a song. That means you need to know how to communicate tonal needs to players and missing parts.
Gear and tone, just like a guitar, is personal to each player. If you’re swapping out guitars per set or song, you’d do the same for some pedals.
If you have to use their gear, how do you get used to the rig? You’re spending a few hours in the week getting ready for service and then you show up and have to adjust your ears to what’s provided. You’re confidence in your playing takes a hit.
Seems like they’re missing modulation effects. The line6 unit has it, but all the spaces are filled with delay and verb settings. No chorus, tremolo, or octave. A bunch of worship songs have these effects.
Seems a little limited when you think about songs with dual delays or multiple verb stages throughout a song.
I'd give this a 7.5/10. They definitely did their homework and got some quality gear and major pts for having that m9 hooked up to ableton to make sure the BPM's on the delays are always accurate according to the song. As a guitarist who's been playing in church for a little more than a decade with his own gear, I can honestly say I wouldn't mind playing that rig. However, I would rather have the choice of being able to bring my own stuff. Not a fan of the *you HAVE to play our stuff*, that's a bit controlling imo, even though I understand their pov. Overall, would much prefer to play on my own rig.
I play guitar and bass for sunday worship in our church and I would find it difficult to play a rig that is not mine. A) how do you rehearse with your band? It would mean I either had to replicate this rig for myself or take it with me to every rehearsal. And I am like you with a Helix board as small as possible for max convenience. I wouldn't want to carry that behemoth with me. ;) And b) as you mentioned what happens to parts that require different effects? A stereo ping pong double delay? A Fuzz? A Phaser, Chorus, Whammy/Octaver, Wah?
Our keyboard player always brings his own keyboard with him, the guitarist his own rig and the bassist as well. These are instruments that often require individual setups and sounds the player needs to tweak on his own instrument. This is not so much the case for drums, since these are pretty standard with the exception of maybe the number of Toms or Cymbals, which could easily be provided for.
My final thought is: I do this voluntarily. My church is happy that I offer my expertise and time to add to worship. But I do this on my conditions and with my gear that I am familiar with. I actually find it rude to demand from someone who happily offers to do something in your favour, to have it done only the way you want. It is an issue of thankfulness towards someone offering help. It's like someone offering you to take you to hospital because you fell off a tree and broke your leg, but you insist he bring you there with your car instead of his. Weird.
Bottom line: I offer my services. I play my rig. If you don't like it, choose someone else. However I do know that my rig is solid and won't pose any problems. Younger, more inexperienced players may provide different material. I know how it can be. Haven't we all been there. ;)
I'm a worship drummer. Yes all churches provide the kit.....just like am Amp I gues...I ALWAYS bring my own cymbals and snare drum...sometimes the house snare is good but I prefer my Tama 14x7. Straight up Def leapord gush.
Anyway, pedals are to guitar players as cymbals to drummers....
That makes sense
Yes a board resident at a church just doesn’t work too well. Diversity has huge benefits
think the pedalboard/amp set-up is a solid foundation of the stuff you would need to play at church these days...they definitely got good input from the players there...
I see two sides to this.
One side. I think it is really cool that a church does that so they can allow guitar players who don't have paldes to have a chance to play on Sunday mornings. Guitar pedals are so expensive, why not take full advantage of you really want to play that bad. I have been wanting to join my church band for 1 year now, but don't want to go out and spend thousands of dollars on pedals. Just to Cater to a certain type of sound that the church wants me to have. I wish my church had this for a option so I didn't have to spend a dime for pedals.
Side 2.
I am definitely big on sound, I used to own a few pedals myself. You get obsessed on finding your guitar tone that's just right for you. Let's get real here church worship music is pretty Bland and not creative when it comes to sound on a guitar. Every guitar player that plays in worship bands all sound the same. They all have the same pedals, they play Telecaster or a Boutique single coil guitar. Why should you be surprised that a worship leader or director wants the band to sound like Hillsong, Passion City, House fires, etc. It's all carbon copy sound when comes to a worship music. Im not too surprised that a church like this one wants to control a guitar player sound, and honest for a worship setting its what is best for the band.
As for the pedals, as you may have realized last week Jimmy, I kinda like pedals. I've built a sparkle drive and an EP boost. Not a huge fan of The sparkle drive (let me know if you want to try it) . It is a more flexible tube screamer with a clean blend added, not a bad pedal, but I'm not a screamer guy.
I built 3 EP boosts and used to keep one on my board always on because it adds something special. I didn't use it to boost but rather to condition tone. Now I have my euphoria that fills that role. I do have the EP boost (modded) on my clean rig board because it does something special Perhaps the jfets inside with the high input impedance help like a buffer and give you the sparkle and high end that may go missing in a long cable.
The compressor he has is a staple. I've never played through one, it uses an OTA chip that is hard to come by these days. I'm a bigger fan of optical compressors that don't pump like, say, an orange squeezer or DOD280 .
Line 6 makes good stuff even the M9, for delay, verb and modulation that isn't a bad way to fly.
Vox makes great amps, but I prefer fender style more. And there in lies the rub. I suppose it is the same for a drummer or even a keyboardist getting used to the heads, cymbals or the action of the keys..
A rig is pretty personal. I'm glad he doesn't push a guitar, because I cannot get comfortable on the 24.75" gibson scale length, and I have never bonded with any PRS I have tried (they are pretty but I just don't like how they feel under my fingers)
I was worried about hum and have stuff to mitigate that, I am also worried about failures which is why I bring spares of everything (well but amp, that gets heavy after a while).
I understand his points and they are valid. It would be nice (but perhaps cost prohibitive) to have a duplicate rig to practice on. I also think it would be nice to ditch the amps and go direct.... selling the amp and getting something like a Quilter Power Block or one by Orange (forget the name) which is fairly inexpensive and solid state (no more tubes to fail) would make his sound guys love him, and perhaps give enough budget back to get some of the rig for practice.
I agree...having a way to take the gear home or come up to the church and practice is the only way to real get comfortable. I've done that for our keyboard players...setting everything up and letting them come in and create sounds they like and get used to the user experience on the new keyboard.
I think that's a great setup. I don't know how everyone feels, but ultimately, I play at church for God and for the congregation, not so much for myself. And if my church provided this for me, I'd whole heartedly use it (and I'm not a huge VOX fan for amps). Knowing the sound would be consistent, and the fact that I'd only need to bring my guitar, well worth it. I've seen this video a long time ago, and thought it was a great setup back then.
And, on the M9, I've never used one or a Line 6 prior to my HX Stomp as well. I do know several session guitarists that use the M9 in their rigs, and they've been on so many songs and albums, I could never count them.
Love the video, keep it up. God Bless.
Church offers decent backline gear and people still complaining. What i wouldnt give to have this 10 years ago.
haha I know
I think having the equipment for someone who doesn't have it is nice. But the requirement that it must be used, is too much. However, I love how respectful you were while reviewing this.
so good bro. subscribed.
Just found this channel! Liking.
Awesome, thank you! Glad you're here!
I think you already hit on it. The pedals that we have put on our own board are every bit as personal as the guitar that we chose. On the other hand, I don’t think a church is totally out of line to have a pre-set rig for the players. Kind of a plug in and go setup. I do think (personal preference here 😁) that they could update the line6 to at the very minimum the pod go. Having said all that, a true worshipper would play a kazoo if the church asked them to or they could simply pass and worship with the rest of the congregation. Just my two cents- I would play there.
The way the sounds are resonating in churches is far from being close to the sounds you can get when you practice at home or in a bar, or even a gymnasium, the fact that the pedal board is already set for the churches roof height is a good thing I think cause you might have to redo your entire sound to get something good in such a vast space that resonate that much, remember the architecture of churches as been specially designed to project sounds at the most for the narrator to easily get heard at speech volume. If I were to bring my pedal board I know for sure that I would need to retweek all of my sounds.
I think consistency is super important. Buzzes and Hums happen and players and my self have wasted time to fix it. Accessibility is also a good idea for good players that do not have gear. But I think if they were going to provide and enforce a house board I think a Helix Floor is better that the board they have.
I definitely think it's pretty awesome for a church to have gear for volunteers to use, especially if they have the heart to be involved, but not the gear to match. However, I also think that they need to be a little more flexible with letting players use their own rig if they want to (and most players will know if their gear isn't up to standard). I, for one, would never play in a church that forced me to use a house pedalboard.
Why not just Helix in this case? Seems better for all 3 reasons listed and i doubt more expensive when you count amp cost in
Yeah,,,,I don't think Helix existed?? when this video came out originally. But def a better option nowadays.
Our church provides a pedalboard for bass, but not guitar. (I play bass) I always bring my own board when I play. I have to know what's going to happen when I kick a pedal on in the middle of a worship service! Great topic!
Yeah I don't know about this one... I completely agree that having a backline pedalboard is a blessing as a backup, as well as for folks who want to serve but don't have/can't afford the gear. I also think providing a backline amp (or Kemper) is really important as well. But with that said, my initial thought is that *requiring* EG players to use the house board is going a little too far with it. Requiring they all use the same board presents a number of issues since a guitarist's pedalboard is basically an instrument to itself. I also don't think consistency of tone between different players is actually that important, as long as their tones still serve the song and the congregation. For example, I set up my gain staging and effects a lot differently for a youth service than I do for a normal Sunday in order to better serve the situation. By requiring the use of a house board with cookie cutter gain staging and effects, you instantly lose all of that expression. I think it also shows a bit of a lack of faith and trust in the team from the WL... Just my two cents though.
Yeah I think providing amps is a big thing a church can do to be consistent if they are worried about that sort of thing. Having that stuff as a backup is a good idea but to demand it just feels like you are cutting off a guitarists ability to be creative. Legitimately no big church I have seen forces guitarist to use pedals. They will for sure provide backline amps or amp modeling so they can keep that setup the same. I am sure the guitarists there were happy to have input but I also feel like they probably were a bit sad to lose that bit of creativity.
Great video.
Thanks!
@@HeyWorshipLeader I really enjoy your content. . I’m a hx stomp user. Your videos are a great resource. Thank you.
I am a worship leader currently in the process of developing new guitar players that cannot afford gear.
The general concept of having gear at the
ready for guitarists to use is great. I believe this is something I would do in the future in order to provide opportunity for people that might not have the financial resources to purchase gear. (I remember feeling crappy myself showing up with a line 6 spider and a starter Squier strat back in the day, and everyone else having expensive gear.)
What I would do is provide a line 6 helix floor with song presets that either I make (I’m one of the guitar players there) or buy them from WT or somewhere else. And as a church, we would “buy” into the helix system for the guitar players. I would not make use of the Helix mandatory though
The provided pedalboard in the video shown is just a tad limiting in my opinion. Specially if it’s mandatory to use it.
Great video, I agree with having reliable back line gear available but also if the guitar player has their own solid gear they should be able to use it. I spend a lot of time crafting the tones for each setlist and also I know my rig inside and out when I need to make a change or should a problem arise , which does happen even with great gear, I’m familiar with it and can problem solve quickly.
New subscriber!!!
Thanks man! Yes...being familiar with the gear is def a huge thing to take into account
Having a consistent church rig, using my own, and everything in the middle is great and has their benefits and negatives. But, at the end of the day, I'm there to serve. It's not just about what I want.
One more thing...I had the m9 for a while before I became an adult and started making money and honestly it’s a lot of the same effects as the helix and it’s pretty good
Hey Jimmy, found you through Dave. Subbed!
Hey Ryland! That's awesome...Welcome!!
I’m at the 28.2-Club 🥳🙌🏻 haha!
So I’ve actually played this rig and served in this church. The rig sounded great. Being a professional, having a break from carrying my entire rig in was so nice.
Is it Trinity Baptist?
Currently in this situation and its not bad. Church uses a Helix, but I own a Axe FX III. Obviously I'm more familiar with my gear but I can make it work. I did have to do a bit of learning on the Helix as I don't want to step on something and not know how to get back to usable tone. I'd obviously prefer to bring my gear (I've invested lots of money here) but I'm playing FOR the church so they make the call here and I'm OK with that. I was grumpy with it for a bit but only because I think Fractal sounds better. (WAR!) LOL
hahaha
I can’t do without the strymon big sky cloud. This would be a solid no for me.. and to force the guitarist to use it is sad. I mean, no Strymon, no JHS, and no Boss ES-8?
big sky is awesome!
I’m of two minds. I’m the main player at my church (wife is one of the pastors too), but we sometimes have to shuffle around. For instance, I had to play mostly bass for six months. The back up player was a high school student who didn’t have a board, so he’d have to borrow mine or the leader’s. Idk about most of you, but I’m not keen on a kid borrowing expensive gear, even if he was serious and did treat our stuff with care. Some don’t. I’m also not the best when it comes to gear know how and I only just recently figured out the noise in my signal was from my power supply. It would’ve been nice to have a set up for our rotation. Our keyboard guy fills in on guitar for me when I’m not there and his set up doesn’t quite cut through the mix very well. We do not have consistency at all and it’s frustrating.
My main issue with the setup is where the volume pedal sits in the signal chain.
Otherwise, it’s a well-considered setup. Getting familiar with it would be the main problem for me.
What is a worship pedalboard?
Love the video. I can see both sides of this topic but I lean to the pro active approach to this situation. Eliminating waisted time and have redundancy is a plus in my book. My skill level is not adequate for this church but wish it to be some day.
that's a good point. Keep working man!
Coming back to this video a year later, I don’t see the problem with this I used to. My only issue with this board is I don’t feel like the best options for pedals were chosen, but they said their guitarist input was put in. Some churches also go with the sentiment if it’s not broke don’t fix it. I know not all churches can drop even half of the amount of money at once that it cost to build a pro level rig. As long as the ministry is willing to upgrade as the players see fit within reason and not every 5 years I’m cool!
I think the idea is good and comes from a place of good intentions. As a guitar player and worship leader, I wish I could provide gear for our team. I just went through a guitar players board like 3 weeks ago that was buzzing for some unknown reason. However, I think it is a sad board. I spent a lot of money and time putting my board together, building presets, and dialing in an iridium to avoid troubles with an amp. It would be sad not to use it. I think if I were going to go this far with it, I would just get a helix or kemper with bethel and elevation profiles preloaded on them.
Man I would love it every gig I did the gear was provided. As long as it’s good. They should get a HX effects, and allow each guitarist to make custom presets
that'd be a great option too
As an audio engineer, I completely understand where Dave is coming from (as I have encountered all the same problems/issues).
But.
As a guitarist, demanding musicians use ONLY the gear you provide completely destroys any of their creativity, as they might spend weeks with their pedalboard tuning in a specific sound profile for a certain song, but now they have to try an accomplish the same thing on pedals that you provide (likely on the same day)?
If 2 of the issues are "Consistency" and "Time-wasters" you can simply introduce some policies like;
- "All pedals must be PAT tested, then tested by the audio engineers at the church before being approved" This is to avoid any noisy/foreign pedals or home-made pedals that don't meet electrical standards.
- "dB levels must be below a certain threshold" you can do this by having a dB meter plugged into the end of their pedalboard chain (before reaching the amp/desk)
- "All sound profiles must be built/tuned-in before practice or day of service" This is to avoid the guitarist that spend all of practice trying to get a certain sound out of their pedal and they end up messing up during the service, cause they basically missed all of practice.
Bro where can I get a WRSHP hat. Big need
Looks like they're sold out of this particular color but here is the website: artofhomage.com/collections/wrshp-collection/products/wrshp-heather-gray-sb-product-of-grace-series?variant=4991187976233
I think that's a great idea. If the guitarists got to decide whats on it then I don't see anything wrong with this. I personally prefer the volume after my drives so I can be dead quiet if I need to be without having to depend on a sound guy (who already has plenty of stuff to worry about). I run a line 6 M5 for modulation and delays on one of my boards and it is great. I am sad that they don't use any pitch or modulation, because they have great ones. However I get the need for simplicity, and the midi thing is sweet. This rig is especially nice for guitarist who aren't used to playing and tap dancing at the same time. This is a solid board and it is well designed. I feel that most of the people who are being negative probably don't actually gig or play with a band often. This checks all my boxes. I would rather be able to trust my gear and have a sound guy who also knows my gear than to have "my sound." Also this is a worship gig, if your main priority is not "perverting my sound." Then you may be a worship leader for the wrong reasons. Pride check. That said, I do feel that not being able to practice at home with the same gear could be tough. I think I personally would still rather use my own gear if I can, but I wouldn't say no to playing at the church if they said I had to play what they had. I would complain if it was not well thought out or if the musicians did not have input for necessary alterations, but thats not the case here.
I’m poor with chops. Finally scrapped enough money for quality board. Start playing electric after years of there being a need.
Having a church board would have been amazing and solved a lot of problems.
I bet
I’d probably go with Winterfresh instead of Cinnamon Altoids. If you are collaborating with the primary electric guitarists in your ministry I think you could arrive at a decent pedalboard (depending on budget). Having backline amps is a great idea (if you could get a Vox style and Fender style depending on player preferences). I like providing the Radial SGI. We provide tuners and DI’s for bass and acoustic players (unless they have their own gear they want to swap out). I mostly use a Helix these days. I could see something like that being really useful if most guitarists like using one (you could save settings, patches, and load an individuals preferred patch and IR). I’d still prefer to give the final choice to the guitarist, but I appreciate this in theory.
I'm getting some don't play for the flesh vibes. Getting a perfectly consistent sound makes sense I guess for what they're doing but it definitely shows to the musician that the gig is about showing up and providing an agreed upon service instead of bringing musicianship to to the table. So the question is if players like the idea of doing that.
Great video! On the board, the string in the Ernie Ball volume pedal will break. It happen to me during service, I was lucky to recover. I now have a Dunlop vp, rugged and reliable, no strings attached! Also, take the tuner out if the cain, even the EB pedal has a tuner out. It's ok to provide the board, but the time comes when you have to invest in your own board to develop your tone. I just got the Strymon Big Sky which takes time at home to plan and program for worship, this church will miss out on these incredible tones. Yes on the amp! Tele is a good choice. I love a Les Paul, but my worship pastor prefers my strat which covers a lot of ground in worship music. Most important is your heart for the Lord. Blessings to all who serve as worship leaders
I’ve been through several of them lol.. they are junk imo.. I only volume pedal I use is the Hilton electronics ones and forcing them to use that pedal alone is just pain mean..
I’ve played at several churches with this sort of controlled environment. House backline, iso cabs, provided pedal board, even supplied in-ears, etc. If you’re a regular there with that particular set up, it works ok. Or, if you don’t have gear, I guess that’s workable. But if you have a dialed-in rig, being required to abandon it so the sound team feels comfortable is counterproductive. Having my amp, pedals, and instruments allows a level of confidence that would not be possible without them. Everyone knows how different it feels to play with great tone vs no-so-great tone. Hopefully, you get called to play because of what you can bring to the party, empowering you to do your Worshipful best is a win/win. I appreciate having house gear available, but mandating that I use it is a mistake.
Many guitar players nowday need to have 1000 pedals to acomplish a sound, best famous guitar players create and acomplished big great sound from little they had.
Absolutely!
I love the idea of having a church pedalboard. However, a guitarist should be able to play his own gear if he has it. It's great to have a board for people to play if they don't have gear or don't have any pro gear, but it's also good for when you have pedalboard troubles either during rehearsal or during the set, you can just swap them out and not waste time hunting the problem and trying to fix it. Now to go convince my worship pastor to put together a board for the church lol
I think this is great, like what you do, to give players who do not have the gear, a chance to have gear to play with. If I had been given a pedal board when I was young and had nothing, I would have been so excited and willing to invest time in learning. BUT, now having a set up I love, I would hate to be micromanaged into using something I am not comfortable with. If a worship leader brings in a player who maybe doesn't "sound" up to the churches standard then help foster and pastor them into new ideas. But, if a player knows what they are doing, and have time and money invested into their own gear. Let them use it. Take the time to work with them outside of Sunday to work out any issues. My worship leader did this with me. We met outside of Sunday and worked my rig into the set up. It took maybe an hour, and now we know how my rig runs. Don't force someone, telling them their time and money invested isn't "the correct way" to play. I like what you at Hey Worship Leader do at your church.
I think what a lot of people don't think about is just simply communicating. Maybe a more experienced guitarist could just communicate with that leader how good their gear is, and they're squared away. Let that guitarist use his gear.
If you're a helix user, chances are you can get used to the wet effects by getting those patches.
The only thing I disagree with forcing every guitar player using the same board is annoying bc I know my gear and how to use it. If it’s someone else gear I have to learn how to use it
understandable
It would be difficult to get your settings down if all of the gear was at church.
It's quality gear. Basically a lot of the gear I was using 7-10 years ago. But it would be tough to feel comfortable without practicing with it for the upcoming week.
Agreed
So many thoughts, but the thing that stands out to me most is that i spend some time at home playing as if i would at church. my issue may speak more to my weakness as a player, or that we don't get much time with the music before Sundays, or my process, but i would be a little off having to use something that was very different from how i had been practicing up to that point. even with a mid week practice, I'm not sure i would be fully connected to my rig layout and even worse my tone, therefore i might have a tenancy to focus on it too much. could i do it? yes. would i praise the same? yes. would i still be thankful to do it at all? yes. would it always be a pain point and secretly bother me? yes. TBH i would end up buying all that same gear myself just for the consistency, lol.
We've thought through this a lot. I think guitar players (myself included) are pretty diva about their set up. If I spend a lot of (too much) money on my pedals and guitars im guna be comfortable with my stuff. We decided just to let our guitar players use their own stuff. People show up early to set up and get the kinks worked out. We also have a kemper and foot switch for those that dont have their own gear.
I thank that they would provide with the instruments but, if it's just an unplanned rig and we need everyone to just get in position and play let's go for it. On the other hand if we're gonna have time to prepare i rather have everyone using their personal instruments, guitar, pedals, bass, drum snare and metals, keyboard, all these are easy to just swap and connect to the existing lines to the mixer. We can use their amps and mics no problem. As guitarist having to use another pedalboard or guitar that not familiar with or that I might not be comfortable with (pedalboard layout different to mine and different pedals) it will be a little difficult to just arrive and set all the sounds for the gig I will just try to set a basic sound and focus on covering the main base of the songs rather than my usual detailed sounds from my own board. Ive had this situation, and I've done what I could with what I had. Now this board is an easy board to play through, the M9 is very easy to set up if needed the drives are ok (i had an M13). I agree with the points he mentions it's a good for everything including avoiding noises.