Self-censoring plus losing your own train of thought. Like having an abusive teacher looking over the shoulder of your own mind, making you nervous, so that you lose your initial thrust by trying to cover every ridiculous angle of possible objection as you’re trying to speak.
I used to wonder why when he was accusing me of things I hadn't done I couldn't find the words to defend myself in the end, almost as if I was being told to shut up inside my head before I even spoke. I knew the more I tried to defend myself the more he'd twist my words and the guiltier he'd make me seem. They really are a poison that permeates everything
@@aliceheatherlogan I know exactly that feeling! It's like the second I was accused of something I FELT guilty and my whole behaviour became that. It didn't matter how ridiculous the accusation was. I still feel so weird thinking back at that. I still don't really understand my own reaction.
I literally lost my voice. My husband started (early on in our marriage) making comments about my voice. He couldn't stand it! I used to talk very melodic, with highs and lowes. But now, after 13 years of marriage, my voice is much more monotonous.... the funny thing is, when we met, I loved the way he spoke! I am now in the process of leaving him with our 2 kids...
Wow, I was going to type out your exact words! So sad to have someone literally tell you they hate your voice. I am in the process of divorcing my narc and have children as well, who I refuse to let feel “less than” as I have felt for decades. I am now finding myself again, it’s a new journey and I finally feel ready for it. I wish you the best!!
@Robert Cook Yeah, I wrote this first but I'm not sure if it's showing up... Must be that narcscally "non-disclosure" agreement we supposedly signed up for unawares that has us so stressed out and walking on eggshells, tight lipped to the point of mere echo or mute-ation of the narc's misattributed projections and introjections? ... We can and will be held responsible for anything we say or do within the narc's toxic echo chamber of utterances whether they belong to us or not, the narc is the soul processor and sole possessor of all his captives! 🔎😈↩️🤐🔍
@Robert Cook Codependency is a ♂️☯️♀️imbalance at it's root. Boundaries, self validation, inner locus of control, give - be ⚖️ take - do, help restore harmonically holistic frequencies. No more fix, save and rescuing a ho or Joe!
My narcissistic mother never commended nor encouraged my artistic abilities, but instead showed me her blatant indifference. As a child and teenager, I always tried to please her, but was afraid of her at the same time. Nothing I did pleased her, and found the truth to be that she was jealous of my talents, personality, and attractiveness. The attention I received from others only infuriated her more, and I was her scapegoat from hell.
I’m sorry- you will have to reparent yourself. It’s a kind mother who sees you and cares. The universe supports you in its natural nurturance. ❤ Stay strong
Exactly Angela..same for me no encouragement for my abilities..Artistic and creative writing etc..the jealousy shows in their eyes and facial expressions too..really nasty 😒
You're lucky it was only indifference. If your art was bad you can bet she'd tell you about it, so take her silence as the biggest compliment she could give you. In any case, a narcissistic parent is good fuel for art. It's a shared experience an increasing amount of children have to deal with now, thanks to the internet we no longer have to deal with it alone.
*This is my message for those who are reading this comment* When you enter this new year, remind yourself that you have learned enough about human behaviour in real life and how they act on social media. No matter how good they look when it comes to their external aesthetic image, if someone fails to show you true human traits through their language and behaviour, you have nothing more to do with them because if you fall for the trap, *it could cost you your life* . *Demons work with people who know their language* Those who are genuinely attracted to you show love by spending time and good feelings just for the sake of creating a harmonious circle between the two hearts.
Perfect , agree . Most of the time a very freindly person at first turns to evil later a good person will not trust you at begging only narc come at the begging with a smiley face .
You'd better pay attention outside of your own choices as well. Like a neighbor who decides they have so much envy they believe you deserve to be destroyed or worse and had the skills and contacts to make it happen. Yes. It happens
He does not mince words: "Oh, I don't want to talk about that." Like I'm a worm who should STOP TALKING, because he's not interested. It paralyzes communication and effectively creates a void for his next toxic dump. No thanks.
A cup of water (love) becomes toxic when it is not allowed to flow (move), just like any standing water. Narcissistic abuse creates a fear of vulnerability so you can’t tell someone you love them. Your voice is silenced, and your unexpressed emotions become toxic.
I’ve been thinking a lot about this very thing a lot recently, the loss of ones voice through abuse. The voice is a marker of agency, expression, and personal volition. Reclaiming ones voice when one has lived through abuse and torture - physical, mental, social, familial and professional is a lifelong process but helps with cultural awakening and evolution.
I often feel this is my struggle in which I have not made much ground. Regaining a voice. My opinions seem to carry no weight. A few times I resorted to using violence and dominance to be heard and boy I was shocked at how easy that was to lose control of. I've chosen to never go down that route again... Trying to figure out how to properly reveal a narcissist... To themself. Do friends and family help you through this step?
@@Up2Dreww practising with people who have empathy and who allow you to be flawed and even clumsy while you learn to assert yourself is key. Even practicing non violent resistance through voice with those who continue to try to dominate will help. Don’t expect abusers to change, they bank on your codependent so will not allow you to become more fully yourself. I’m my experience practicing with loving others I unusual and my testing was to do it with people who could never hear or listen let alone allow me to speak, but I needed to assert the right to speak even with them. All best 🥂
Got my Narc ex-husband out ~ 7 months ago. One year prior, I decided that no one could keep me from being me. I was the scapegoat with 2 Narc. parents who passed away this year. I made my voice heard by 2 Narc. siblings, who have excommunicated me from their families, after I voiced that I wanted a copy of my parents’ trust. They never expected me to use my voice. All hell’s gonna break loose when my atty requests all of the financials. Gotta protect myself.
It’s always the parents that set you up, I married one much past the understanding of narcissism. That’s the pool of people I keep meeting, and most people blame us with attraction nonsense. It’s a set up and I’m yet to meet one man who is an empath
Get what you deserve, please. I was the scapegoat for my mother, and one of six kids. I broke the cycle and distanced myself from all of them. Now with my mother nearing her final years, my youngest sister reached out to me, on Messenger, asking for my address, so that she could include me in our mother's will. I almost fainted. Before I gave her this information, I informed her that this would in no way obligate me to extend any sympathy to that woman. At first I didn't want anything, including blood money, from that woman, but then something clicked in my head. I deserve more than any of them, with the mental abuse I was subjected to by this hateful woman. She was jealous of my numerous talents and abilities, as well as the attention I received from others. So please, go for it, hang in there, and take what's rightfully yours. You have all of my sympathies!
I may be responding in the wrong order here, but I just read the two replies to my comment. Thank you both so much!! My gut is that it was my parents that made the final blow. I’ve been told that there is no recourse for me…that it’s done and over. Time to accept it, and the sooner I do, the better off I’ll be. To the end, it truly was all about appearances.
I've been ECHO ALL my life since I was 8 yrs old, no wonder my body and mind are SICK. I loved my step dad until the night my sister was born and he sexually abused me. I think back now and I think he did that to push me away, and I went and hid, stayed away from him. I know now I was an item to be thrown away because he had his own daughter. I've been beat down, abused, cheated on ALL my life! And until now with you and your videos the road map of my life and now at 70 I'm a little happier, thanks you
My Dad literally got my friends to go home, passive aggressively - our voices were a trigger for his anger. He literally resented my friends, and Mum discouraged and distrusted nearly every friendship I had who represented the threat of my individuating from her. I'm nearly 50 and still don't know who I really am, and have to start building new friendships from the ground up, as none have survived (and social iso ate the last scraps). Good to know though
My childhood coping mechanism was to be invisible and silent so I would not be whipped with a belt. Sure causes extreme harm in adulthood. Unfortunately, I married a covert Narc who I thought was a quiet, shy person. No, he was Evil and wore a mask until we were married . I had waited so long to marry to avoid an abusive partner yet that is exactly what I ended up with. I almost called off the wedding due to red flags and his sibling entering a psychiatric hospital the week before the wedding. I had pressure, alot of pressure to Tie the Knot. Always Listen to your Inner Voice, that is your Only Protection. Your Inner Voice can Save you from the Abuse and Harm.
It certainly feels this way, after having moved out from my parents for college at 19, I realize I have no self identity, no intention and no life in me. I am hollow, I live like a shadow, trying to be invisible to others. I feel like I've even lost the capacity to have opinions on things... I have to force myself and ask "what do I believe?", and the reply is just a vague whisper in my mind. The apathy is killing me, the yin has taken over and reduced my self to nothing...
This is the truth! This whole video is a fact! As ive started waking up, the truth is being served to me. This is real knowledge for people ready to move on and be done with an altered reality.
Oh boy.. I think you got me with this one. I turned into an echo of every single boyfriend and friend, and lost them all anyway. They all finally rejected me or forced me to let go, in the end. I'm almost completely alone and unplugged - at least the circuit has been broken - but the echoes are still controlling me, particularly my parents' voices in my head. However I am beginning to see some evidence of my true self returning - I'm nearly 50 years old, Mum died just over 2 years ago, Dad 10+ years ago, my eldest halfbrother 4+ yrs ago, and my remaining half brother has finally moved away to live out his dream of individuation, but I was left holding the bundle of illusory promises and live in the family ruin. Not a single person stepped up to help me, not even friends - how they all love to assume I'm totally fine or exaggerating my distress, when in reality I've been lost and imploding. The pain of this social curse has been almost unbearable. Always been aware of my reluctance/inability to express myself, and when I have I just hurt people as my cptsd-anger seeps through. Yeiks. The last 2+ years have been the hardest I've experienced but it's finally starting to pay off as everyone else's voices begin to fade. I'm alive, by the skin of my teeth ✌️ Thanks for shedding light with your Echo Codependence theory!
I want to add that for some of us, we literally lose our voice. The condition is called spasmodic dysphonia, and after my 2nd marriage to a narcissist, I stopped being able to even order a sandwich at a sandwich shop.
Ancient Vedic lore places such importance on voice that there was a deity for it - Vac, who is now known as Saraswati. For my part, I rebuilt myself through voice - chanting Buddhist mantra, specifically Om Tare Tuttare Ture Soha, the mantra of Green Tara, mother of the Buddhas. It worked for me :)
I’ve been following since 2010, when you were “Spartan life coach”. Thank you for all the years of quality content and coverage of serious issues that need attention. You the man Richard!
Unless you mean 'voice' figuratively, I did wonder about this. It was strange the way I always lost my voice while in the company of a very close narc in my life. I kept trying to clear my throat and speak louder, and I kept saying to her "Why am I losing my voice?" and it only happened around her...
That makes a lot of sense, I have the same issue with my mum as well and I can't talk to her much less try too anymore. I also refuse to get into an argument with her too because it's as pointless as she is.
The very threat or intent, by another, to steal your voice/being is only accomplished through weak boundaries, and one's own devaluing of self. Cancel this agreement, that you deserve this. Once you collect yourself off the ground, determine to recover your fight. Fight for your voice, your being, your life. Grieve hard, but as a passage through. Then fight your way back in to your body, your presence, your breath. You are alive for this time on earth, to live, and to love and be loved. Your life is priceless. Remember that. Word to self :)
I used to be ashamed of speaking and then through life I learned to love myself and that was a very long and winding road but I realised I have a really beautiful speaking voice….who knew all those years ago. A lot of devils in disguise out there so let’s tread carefully ❤️🙏 thank you Richard for being so honest and encouraging our self healing.
It has taken me 2 years of focused intent, several of Richards courses, a lot of videos, Sam Vaknin, and a good therapist to help me separate myself from my narcissist mentally and emotionally. I'm taking Richards new forward focused challenge to help me leave physically. They have been invaluable to me 🙏
@@antoniyatreneva1201 it is still a life long struggle, but thanks to Richard, a GOOD counsellor, Sam Vaknin teaching me that my healing was infected also by the narcissists, and learning how to change that, it took 2 years to let go, even though I still live with him, run a business with him, and love a rescue dog with him. I wish you well on your journey 💜💜
The mythology aspect in this is sublime !! With Echo, at first I thought of the mechanism of projection so often encountered in these relationships but hell yeah, is our voice annihilated !! And thanks for reminding we are as immature as the narc is when being stuck on the yin side !! Great teaching in such a short amount of time !! 🙏
I remember being told the story of Narcissus and Echo way back in primary school... must have been around 8 years old. I find it sad the story was told to me at a time when I couldn't comprehend and truly process the important narrative of this moral tale. Only really getting the point of this story four decades later when I'm doing my own healing and recovery. Wouldn't it be great if educators could find a way to teach the life saving life skills, tools and techniques to recognise and deal with toxic people! Erradicating the harsh inner critic is indeed very difficult because of the vacuum it leaves in our life and our lack of life skills to deal with this new reality we find ourself in. For me, talk s, journaling, mediation and Inner Child work made it possible to silence that negative voice to a level I was able to continue on with my healing. I'm at the point of reparenting and helping my Inner Child to grow up into the adult that I should have been. It feels like staring into the abyss when asking myself the question: "Who Am I?" I'm now two years into answering that question.
Honestly you know what it reminds me of (attempting to communicate effectively with my ex when he'd pretend not to understand right from wrong, that is)? That scene in how the Grinch stole Christmas where he yells "I'm an idiot!" And the cave echos back "You're an idiot!". Haha.. Why? Because it was absolutely idiotic of me to continue to try getting through to him. He came back recently with more tired apologies. I knew I was healing when I had no desire to reconcile but also felt no bitterness towards him either. I told him exactly that because it's true. That's such a good place to be.
It’s something that affects my life and I have a lot of internal conversations on this subject. I have reached a place in time where I need to speak with confidence so I’m looking forward to watching this. Thankyou
I am so happy you are working so well and I am so proud of you. I was married to a nar for 15 years, here I am 8 years later, empty. Your the healing I need.
Yea I have that too! A while back, if I had any bullying/rage directed at me, I would clamp my jaw and not speak for days. I was a very quiet child too due to the old rents being twats. Recently I discovered carnivore diet and I take less notice and less of a shit of most people these days xxx
You have helped me so much Richard and all i can say os THANK YOU. I was shown (Higher Power, whatever you want to call Him) that I developed thryoid cancer in my 30's and almost died twice due to my voice being shut down and stifled by the ex husband of 25 years. He told me that if I didn't leave I was going to die, so I finally got the courage to do it 2 years ago and still am trying to heal from that and my entire life of dealing with it from others.Having that part of me taken(my voice) traumatizes me because I went through a rape at 4 and he held his hand over my mouth, shutting down my voice and also my mother beating me growing up and saying if you don't stop crying, I'll give you something to cry about, AGAIN shutting down my voice. I am currently in the process of tryong to find it.
@@RICHARDGRANNON it always is. You were very instrumental in me leaving and beginning my journey. I will always be in complete, deep gratitude to and for you. Happy New Year and God BLESS you, Sir!
Good for you. That's awful. I was beaten for crying and hated for singing and hated for playing games I made up. I was despised by a narcissist mother. She hated my freedom my free spirit. She was so toxic I had very bad asthma Went untreated for years. I couldn't breathe and it affected my voice. Such demonic behaviour. Really evil. I ended up with thyroid problem aswell and severe back pain and eczema. Bad mental illness. And my siblings have turned out like her. Hate bitterness towards their kids. Their children have no voice and are also mentally ill. Absolutely so sad The abuse is rife in the family. So bad I can't even listen to them anymore. Cut them off except for the other scapegoat. Echo is the first time I heard that Greek story. Brilliant the way RICHARD GRANNON explains it. Love his TH-cam talks
@@jaonmarymccormack3078Yes I agree with you, Richard is so awesome. He is definitely very gifted in bwing able to expound on these spiritual truths. I am SO sorry for all you have endured in your life, it doesn't seem very fair. At the same time, weare being taught who, why and whose we really are and I know that it is all for a VERY good purpose. He is very proud of us and He is our Voice. When He is spoken, it moves mountains, dissolves lies and brings forth healing. I am praying for you Jaon. God BLESS YOU!
I would like to tell you many things, all I can say is you are not what others did to you. If you have been showned a way to save yourself, probably you are much more worthed than you ever knew. And your life matters, beyond understanding. I'm sorry for your past. Use it for your own greatness, owned gladfullness. You are loved.
I really appreciate your videos. I would really love to see videos that deal with narcissistic siblings and their flying monkeys. After decades of abuse from my own sibling I have finally “given up hope” and started the grieving process. I honestly am using the amoeba thought and closing back up my “cell”. Very difficult to go through, my whole life questioning and confused about my family dynamics finally has some clarity. Thank you for that, I imagine it’s not the first time you have heard this.
😳 i thought i was the only one who experienced this. İs it like gaslighting, a psychic paralyzed state no one really heard or gets what you need, what you say, what's really going on
I just want to thank you again! Your video advice made all the difference back when I was in a relationship with a person with this disorder. I had no idea what I was up against until I found you on youtube. I understood nothing of what was going on but I realised that you did. So I just decided to follow your advice as akward as they seemed. I believe it might have saved my life. Thank you so much for what you do!!!
Thank you Richard you explain echo so clearly now I see I have been silenced and it’s so hard not be heard it causes a person to become angry and confused ! Thanks for your video it helped me a lot ❤
What happens when your break free from abuse and look at this and see your co-depence and the pain....why can you recover from the abuse. Why can't they see themselves ? Why can one find healing and the abuser narc not ? This is so true. This takes a while to recognise the trauma. The bible healed my heart..... the words of yeshua healed my heart and mind making them align.
Absolutely point on. I constantly need to use specific herbs to help with voice and have learned to speak up instead of shut up. As all things, harmony of knowing when to be silent and when to say " NO ".
I am very sad. To not be able to exist to myself is the most excruciating pain. 'Have been trying. Thank you, Richard, and Sam V., for all that I have learned from both of you. It is a noble quest to help broken people. In the end, it is "hope" that is needed. "Hope" that someday I can feel inner peace. To all hurting souls on this channel, turn the
@@emmathackeray9976 Thank you, Emma. There are still beautiful people like you that keep hope alive. I light a candle for you in 2023, and for all people who need to feel love wherever they are tonight. All Best!
@Te Le Gram @Richard_Grannon Thank you for your kind validation. The holidays were brutal this year for me. The New Year, 2023, has a nice "ring" to it so far. The sun still rises over the sea, and I begin again. 🌅 May you be blessed with positivity and peace in 2023, and begin again with bravery. You are a gift to many. Thanks! 🎁
This is how I turned off those ruminating thoughts! Everytime a memory comes of my ex narc, too me was a created EGO I would park that thought in the back seat and REPLACE it with a positive thought, example think of my children or look around the room... Trust it truly works. Thank you Richard. 😊 Love to all xxx
100% spot on. Thank you Richard for explaining what I'm feeling, 9 weeks post narc. I've a long way to go after 3 years of abuse, but you give me hope.
That's very true. I used to always have dreams where I had to warn people of danger or had to scream but couldn't. I later in life found out that meant that I felt I had no voice.
This is what I am working on now..using my tool through podcasts talking on this. I learned about Echo in my training. Thank you so much for this. A great reminder as I get them both out of my head ❤❤
I literally remember saying that I had lost my voice-as in abilty to have an opinion etc when I got out of the situation with sons father 20 years ago and then got into another situation that I got out of 1 1/2 years ago Still learning how to express myself comfortably
I go all day in silence, dont express emotion, and the only thing i speak anymore is the weather and whats for dinner...the thing i live with keeps my once powerful voice very isolated
Substituting "a cult" for the relationship/dual mothership and your analogy takes on a whole new dimension. You have articulated a vague notion I had on my head. When my person leaves the cult he will still be filled their dogma. I was not "born in" to it like him and I had major PTSD from it, on top of the original childhood stuff. It's 1,000 times harder for him to break free from this Narcisistic organization because he knows nothing else. The abuse was horrendous. Every kind. My heart bleeds for him.
Here are some resources for healing: Bonnie Zieman Reboot After Recovery From Trauma Cracking The Cult Code For Therapists The Challenge To Heal After Leaving A High Control Group
Absolutely fascinating. I love the way you deconstruct it, and your use of mythos. And I particularly love the way you talk about eradication of self, which is a concept I did not have a label for, but DO have experience with. One of the most traumatizing things that kept me stuck in my healing was that I felt very strongly that the narcissist wanted to make me cease to exist. That was probably the most damaging and long lasting thing, I felt like I'd been brainwashed and had become an automaton, making "authentic" choices that were really what HE wanted me to do even when he was not there. After leaving him and the situation, I have reclaimed my voice and an starting to feel comfortable in my own skin again. But I think it is a process. There are still aspects of me that need to come online. And I work on it every day. Thank you so much for the work you do, I really appreciate your insights!
I had this with a Narcissist covert. He talked all the time. He was even interrupting me saying let me finish. I started interrupting other people too. I had lost the sense of rhythm in the speech. And when I didn't see him I was continuing ruminating about why he was wrong and I was right. His voices continued to appear in my head months for months after we eventually broke this friendship (me leaving the country and the job)... With grandiose Narcissists it's easier for me, I have been dealing with my bully father for my whole life. I just don't talk to him about anything important. But I broke up with him too. I am tired of walking on eggshells.
I walked away from my sister after we had a petty fight and I asked if we could talk about it. Her reply was 'I'm not discussing it, life is too short'. That was 15 yrs ago. This was the peak realisation of what been going on my whole life between us. It was this event that made me wake up to the fact that I had been silenced my entire life!!! By almost everyone in it. I am now a recluse for the past 6 years. Breast Cancer 8 month ago. The body takes the hit when your voice is gone.
Wonderful analogy. Sums up my last relationship perfectly. Its three years and those echoes have driven me mad. I think you have just stopped me from doing something really crazy, thank you 💚
So my mom was the one in my life who showed a very high degree of narcissistic traits (undiagnosed, big life events have resolved many of these consistently, so idk what to make of that. Her and I have a very good relationship now). I remember around the age of four I had a nightmare that a beanstalk grew out of the pavement in front of our house and in the nightmare I was desperately trying to get her attention and it was like I was invisible to everyone, but most notably her. I woke up PO'ed and you know what? Honestly, I'm still pissed about it! 🤣 Why won't anyone listen to me?! It's recently occured to me that I'm destined to relive this trauma in perpetuity with my romantic interests until... Well, I don't know, honestly. Until, I guess! Lol I feel invisible like Patrick Swayze in Ghost running his hands through people like, hello? Or like Echo maybe. Just invisible.
@Mint_Soup You’re not alone in your endeavor to be seen and heard. There are many of ghosts , standing and learning with you as well . We will ground, call in a healthy filling up of our cup and overcome. ✨💖✨
Invisibility seems to be my superpower. Playing a party game or asking an opinion of everyone, who will be overlooked? Yes. Not thought of at Christmas? Right. Not on anyone's mind unless they need something? Yep. However, at times it is very useful. Just be quiet and no one notices you.
Thank you for this insightful video. I am a recovering co dependent. I'm so grateful of your work so I can learn and grow. I shall be doing the course in 2023 for sure ❤
Richard, you are right. I needed more than a year to hear me again. And the other voice comes sometime again. Some situations are trigger for that. It is not funy. Thank you for your voice! 🙂
I love your deep insights into the mechanism of narcissism. Thank you for elaborating on them so succinctly in this video. It explained why when I started to take voice lessons in my 50’s I felt more confident. Thank you for posting this video.
This is so draining. I listen to what he’s got to say but when I start talking he constantly talks over me so I stop/listen then say have you finished? Then when I say the first word he talks loudly over me. It’s like I don’t have a voice and then the deflect starts so I say right can we go back to the original question and he goes funny and walks off - there’s no communication to hear/listen they are not interested it’s just to plain and simply argue - it’s draining.
I have a friend who ended up divorcing her husband because he kept walking off on her. I'm sure he did other things too, but I was told about that and I know it got to her despite her warnings to him.
Everything you describe in your videos is literally my old best friend for many years since I cut contact with him and his group of friends I rediscovered myself it's incredible.
Please reflect on everything you’ve learned in 2022, and how much you’ve grown this year. Use your knowledge and power for good in this world. Love to all who are suffering. Peace ☮️
It's so true that getting back or even finding your own voice is a lifetime process, there's always that wall of either indifference or misunderstanding you keep hitting when you try to actually express yourself outside of the approved discourse. What makes it so difficult is that it keeps happening with loved ones, especially when they were kinder when you were a much more docile and pleasing echo and then your whole view changes and suddenly you become the villain lol, such an interesting process and a reminder that we must go through it if we want to truly live our lives.
My ex in the devaluation stage told me the only good thing I can do is shut up and to go get on a shelf an never talk again. I was censoring myself, afraid to speak.
This tingles inside of me. I had two sisters who were raised by the same pair of narcissists who couldn't handle being challenged in any way. My two sisters became echoes and cups to fill to my parents, but I started speaking out against what I didn't agree with from a very early age. It always triggered delayed retribution from my mother and violence from my father. He was always the most violent when I stood up against something he believed, wanted me to believe, or I acted in a way he wouldn't have. At least I stopped expecting anything motherly from my mother at age six, so when she did lash out because of something I did or said weeks prior, it was to be expected.
Like the best TH-camrs on any subject or, in this case, narcissism, you and others in this space (i.e., Dr. Ramani, Sam Vaknin) provide so much clarity about the processes involved in narcissistic relationships. Thank you for all your wisdom!
Just reading your book at the moment Richard. It explains a lot and now I understand my life a lot better. Still struggle with aspects of echo codependency especially stuck in having no agency as u have written about in your book. Before I read that I had no idea.
I've been surrounded by narcs my entire life and am still the scapegoat. Curiously, I live in a place called Echo Point (literally) and, a Human Design consultant told me I have an asteroid named Echo in my HD chart (I was in Echo Point as she was telling me about it). I lost my voice - almost entirely. Then I listened to this. Astounding.
After my relationship I started to think of people differently, I thought they where weird or odd, but really they where just like me. He always wanted me to feel that people who had similarities to me ( best described as the nerds ) where really weird and embarrassing. Coming out of that relationship I knew that they weren’t and that they where probably the type of people that I would feel comfortable around but I had a voice telling me that they where weird. I’m so glad over time that I shook that voice off because I’m now around the people that I love
So I am not with a narcissist nor was I recently with one, my girlfriend just got out of a 15 year relationship with a narcissist and your videos have really helped me understand her trauma and helped me understand his psycho behavior towards us... Thank You!
This version of explanation needs to be heralded as a brilliant plain language explanation and concrete idea of the phenomena that is narcissist magnetic connection to co-dependants !! It is magnificent. I believe its like a breaking open of one of the holy seals to godlike understanding. It has history...contextualised to the Tao and Jung...and is very plain in its explanation!! Maybe someone who has educated themselves (as an 'autodidact' as I think Richard here is) as opposed to having been educated by 'the system,' could only have understood, spoken and then taught this in such plain speaking english! Thankyou Richard Grannon!! I pray your words here can "echo" aaahhhh!... [ in a positive way ..lol! = positively] into our future for all in need of hearing it hear them!! I have needed this! The plainest of language is the most effective and accessible in its utility! Those who use it understand its power in the most effective and accessible way!! Just magnificent! Thankyou for your minding of this issue so brilliantly! I have watched your videos for some time....and only as recently as yesterday did one of them PINPOINT the VERY NEEDED understanding of this phenomena....I have been seeking for so very long now. A big cheers to you!
Sometimes it takes a lifetime to figure things out. My voice was eradicated before I was five years old. Sadly, my sense of self has been "barely there" throughout my whole life. Through my studies via lectures from Richard, Sam V., I am able to understand alot more than ever before. It is healing to understand/comprehend deeply such delicate issues. To anyone that is in pain today I honor you through what I myself am going through. We must try to make the pain our friend, and comfort it within ourselves. Then maybe it won't be quite as terrible.
Henry Wadsworth Longfellow "Three silences there are. The first of speech, the second of thought, the third of desire" let that sink in to your core...
"And they tend...*we tend.." I think anywhere you can include a "we," it helps the message come across as less shaming, even though it is so slight. Some of my favorite mental health professionals use "we" when detailing the lived experience of specific diagnoses. Kati Morton is a good example; the inclusive language she uses definitely improves the palatability of some of her more difficult messages. Great information!! We don't even realize we are expected to reflect them back to them until we are in too deep.
You’re right. This is terrifying. Really terrifying. Recently out of a relationship like this… but not really… bc even though the divorce is finalized and we don’t live together… we had kids and it’s impossible for full separation. I’m really struggling with how to deal with all this now. Especially when I (and the kids) constantly hear what a mistake it was to divorce etc etc etc. Also… terrifying and humbling to learn about all this and my own emotional immaturity and toxicity. Gotta start somewhere though right? Anyway. Thanks for this video. The course sounds very interesting.
I tried to divorce and got sucked back in. Nothing works. No help from anybody. It is true the whole family is this way. I married a woman that already have children. My mother in law lives with us. So yes it is passed down. Always feel like death is at the next corner. When I speak, no matter the subject war is at hand. I've made my family dept free and now a enemy???
@@joeworkoutbarnes4507 just an eg. I am going to leave my comfy home to flee to refuge because of my bpd husband, he is hell personified, my family of birth love him so I’ve gone NC
Even though we are the victims of a narcissist, I love how you have the courage to admit that we also have our own immaturity and or toxicity. In my case the difference between my wife and me is I'm willing to accept my flaws and try to improve on them. Peace on your journey.
My narc sister didnt care to understand me. Just wanted me to apologize for the offenses i caused them. And she told me to shut up so she could talk. But i got a big hug and was told how much she loved me.
Thank you for that passionate rendition of the myth of Narcissus. By the way, Zeus' wife's name is Hera. It is my understanding that it was the goddess Nemesis cursed narcissus to fall in love with his own reflection to punish him for his cruel treatment of Echo. As a side note, a modern version of this story tells itself with Axl Rose and Erin Everly. Cheers!
Co dependents have their own voice and self determination until they hook up with a narcissist. They’re subject to the gravational pull of the narcissist. Because they had a narcissist parent they’re transported back to childhood and being an obedient child
This video really speaks to me. If my mother hates onions, I hated onions. Both my dad and I learned over time that vocalizing any thought she had not put in our head resulted withdrawal of all affection, and if the deviation was egregious enough, three hours of screaming without pausing for breath. The thought expressed didn’t even have to be disagreement, only independently arrived at. She literally always said “we think this and we think that.” She went into a three hour tantrum once because I fixed the family vacuum without asking her how to do it first, and also my dad because he didn’t tell me to go ask her. I was in my thirties at the time and had moved home to be a care taker s as they were dealing with illness and age.
Self-censoring plus losing your own train of thought. Like having an abusive teacher looking over the shoulder of your own mind, making you nervous, so that you lose your initial thrust by trying to cover every ridiculous angle of possible objection as you’re trying to speak.
ReAlly well put 🙂
Well said 👏 👌 This is so on point
I used to wonder why when he was accusing me of things I hadn't done I couldn't find the words to defend myself in the end, almost as if I was being told to shut up inside my head before I even spoke. I knew the more I tried to defend myself the more he'd twist my words and the guiltier he'd make me seem. They really are a poison that permeates everything
@@aliceheatherlogan I know exactly that feeling! It's like the second I was accused of something I FELT guilty and my whole behaviour became that. It didn't matter how ridiculous the accusation was. I still feel so weird thinking back at that. I still don't really understand my own reaction.
@@lucidneptune exactly you look like a deer in the headlights which validates them and implies they were right all along. Such a horrible feeling
I literally lost my voice. My husband started (early on in our marriage) making comments about my voice. He couldn't stand it! I used to talk very melodic, with highs and lowes. But now, after 13 years of marriage, my voice is much more monotonous.... the funny thing is, when we met, I loved the way he spoke! I am now in the process of leaving him with our 2 kids...
Wow, I was going to type out your exact words! So sad to have someone literally tell you they hate your voice. I am in the process of divorcing my narc and have children as well, who I refuse to let feel “less than” as I have felt for decades. I am now finding myself again, it’s a new journey and I finally feel ready for it. I wish you the best!!
OMG! This happened to me as well. I literally lost my voice and had psychogenic aphonia. I had to get a speech therapist to get my voice back.
Letting abusive people lose us instead of trying to prove our worth to them hits different. 💝✌️
@Robert Cook Yeah, I wrote this first but I'm not sure if it's showing up... Must be that narcscally "non-disclosure" agreement we supposedly signed up for unawares that has us so stressed out and walking on eggshells, tight lipped to the point of mere echo or mute-ation of the narc's misattributed projections and introjections? ...
We can and will be held responsible for anything we say or do within the narc's toxic echo chamber of utterances whether they belong to us or not, the narc is the soul processor and sole possessor of all his captives! 🔎😈↩️🤐🔍
@Robert Cook Letting them lose us has the effect of us removing our attention from them which eventually restores our voice.
This is such a profound statement - and so true 👍🏻
@Robert Cook Codependency is a ♂️☯️♀️imbalance at it's root. Boundaries, self validation, inner locus of control, give - be ⚖️ take - do, help restore harmonically holistic frequencies. No more fix, save and rescuing a ho or Joe!
@@Champagne4loulou Which one? 😅😘
My narcissistic mother never commended nor encouraged my artistic abilities, but instead showed me her blatant indifference. As a child and teenager, I always tried to please her, but was afraid of her at the same time. Nothing I did pleased her, and found the truth to be that she was jealous of my talents, personality, and attractiveness. The attention I received from others only infuriated her more, and I was her scapegoat from hell.
O my story too
I’m sorry- you will have to reparent yourself. It’s a kind mother who sees you and cares. The universe supports you in its natural nurturance. ❤ Stay strong
Same
Exactly Angela..same for me no encouragement for my abilities..Artistic and creative writing etc..the jealousy shows in their eyes and facial expressions too..really nasty 😒
You're lucky it was only indifference. If your art was bad you can bet she'd tell you about it, so take her silence as the biggest compliment she could give you.
In any case, a narcissistic parent is good fuel for art. It's a shared experience an increasing amount of children have to deal with now, thanks to the internet we no longer have to deal with it alone.
*This is my message for those who are reading this comment*
When you enter this new year, remind
yourself that you have learned enough about human behaviour in
real life and how they act on social media.
No matter how good they look when it comes to their external aesthetic image, if someone fails to
show you true human traits through their language and behaviour,
you have nothing more to do with
them because if you fall for the trap,
*it could cost you your life* .
*Demons work with people who know their language*
Those who are genuinely attracted to you show love by spending time and good feelings just for the
sake of creating a harmonious circle between the two hearts.
Perfect , agree . Most of the time a very freindly person at first turns to evil later a good person will not trust you at begging only narc come at the begging with a smiley face .
You'd better pay attention outside of your own choices as well. Like a neighbor who decides they have so much envy they believe you deserve to be destroyed or worse and had the skills and contacts to make it happen. Yes. It happens
@@brothernorb8586 agree .
🙏I luv this comment.. Very wise words.... I'm going to try to take this advice...... This shit has nearly cost me my life...
Well said !!++++🤗🤗😍
He does not mince words: "Oh, I don't want to talk about that." Like I'm a worm who should STOP TALKING, because he's not interested. It paralyzes communication and effectively creates a void for his next toxic dump. No thanks.
A cup of water (love) becomes toxic when it is not allowed to flow (move), just like any standing water. Narcissistic abuse creates a fear of vulnerability so you can’t tell someone you love them. Your voice is silenced, and your unexpressed emotions become toxic.
When I started trying to heal, I hated myself even for having no voice, no inner drive. Very vicious circle. One needs a lot of patience with oneself.
I used to love to sing, my mother literally made me ashamed to sing and express myself.
Please don't stop singing. God made you beautiful with a beautiful voice. Don't let anyone discourage you & don't let your talent go to waste.
You can still do it!
Sing 🎶💓🌅⛲🌊🎵🎶
🎯 darkness seeks to destroy light
I’ve been thinking a lot about this very thing a lot recently, the loss of ones voice through abuse.
The voice is a marker of agency, expression, and personal volition.
Reclaiming ones voice when one has lived through abuse and torture - physical, mental, social, familial and professional is a lifelong process but helps with cultural awakening and evolution.
I often feel this is my struggle in which I have not made much ground. Regaining a voice. My opinions seem to carry no weight. A few times I resorted to using violence and dominance to be heard and boy I was shocked at how easy that was to lose control of. I've chosen to never go down that route again...
Trying to figure out how to properly reveal a narcissist... To themself. Do friends and family help you through this step?
@@Up2Dreww you don't have to reveal them. Choose your battle wisely. Live far away. Work on your boundaries, self love.
@@Up2Dreww They won't help and probably turn on you. Keep educating yourself so you have a life.
You've got this !
@@Up2Dreww practising with people who have empathy and who allow you to be flawed and even clumsy while you learn to assert yourself is key. Even practicing non violent resistance through voice with those who continue to try to dominate will help. Don’t expect abusers to change, they bank on your codependent so will not allow you to become more fully yourself. I’m my experience practicing with loving others I unusual and my testing was to do it with people who could never hear or listen let alone allow me to speak, but I needed to assert the right to speak even with them. All best 🥂
Got my Narc ex-husband out ~ 7 months ago. One year prior, I decided that no one could keep me from being me. I was the scapegoat with 2 Narc. parents who passed away this year. I made my voice heard by 2 Narc. siblings, who have excommunicated me from their families, after I voiced that I wanted a copy of my parents’ trust. They never expected me to use my voice. All hell’s gonna break loose when my atty requests all of the financials. Gotta protect myself.
It’s always the parents that set you up, I married one much past the understanding of narcissism. That’s the pool of people I keep meeting, and most people blame us with attraction nonsense. It’s a set up and I’m yet to meet one man who is an empath
Get what you deserve, please. I was the scapegoat for my mother, and one of six kids. I broke the cycle and distanced myself from all of them. Now with my mother nearing her final years, my youngest sister reached out to me, on Messenger, asking for my address, so that she could include me in our mother's will. I almost fainted.
Before I gave her this information, I informed her that this would in no way obligate me to extend any sympathy to that woman. At first I didn't want anything, including blood money, from that woman, but then something clicked in my head. I deserve more than any of them, with the mental abuse I was subjected to by this hateful woman. She was jealous of my numerous talents and abilities, as well as the attention I received from others.
So please, go for it, hang in there, and take what's rightfully yours. You have all of my sympathies!
I may be responding in the wrong order here, but I just read the two replies to my comment. Thank you both so much!! My gut is that it was my parents that made the final blow. I’ve been told that there is no recourse for me…that it’s done and over. Time to accept it, and the sooner I do, the better off I’ll be. To the end, it truly was all about appearances.
@@user-wh9sn Thank you for your comment. Would you please consider sharing the link to it?
I've been ECHO ALL my life since I was 8 yrs old, no wonder my body and mind are SICK. I loved my step dad until the night my sister was born and he sexually abused me. I think back now and I think he did that to push me away, and I went and hid, stayed away from him. I know now I was an item to be thrown away because he had his own daughter. I've been beat down, abused, cheated on ALL my life! And until now with you and your videos the road map of my life and now at 70 I'm a little happier, thanks you
"They cannot bear the child's voice." - Powerful image.
My Dad literally got my friends to go home, passive aggressively - our voices were a trigger for his anger. He literally resented my friends, and Mum discouraged and distrusted nearly every friendship I had who represented the threat of my individuating from her.
I'm nearly 50 and still don't know who I really am, and have to start building new friendships from the ground up, as none have survived (and social iso ate the last scraps). Good to know though
@@annewelch2134 I'm so sorry you had to go through that. Sounds tortuous.
@@kal2487 yes, profoundly disappointing
@@annewelch2134 Sending healing thoughts your way. ❤❤
My childhood coping mechanism was to be invisible and silent so I would not be whipped with a belt. Sure causes extreme harm in adulthood. Unfortunately, I married a covert Narc who I thought was a quiet, shy person. No, he was Evil and wore a mask until we were married . I had waited so long to marry to avoid an abusive partner yet that is exactly what I ended up with. I almost called off the wedding due to red flags and his sibling entering a psychiatric hospital the week before the wedding. I had pressure, alot of pressure to Tie the Knot. Always Listen to your Inner Voice, that is your Only Protection. Your Inner Voice can Save you from the Abuse and Harm.
It certainly feels this way, after having moved out from my parents for college at 19, I realize I have no self identity, no intention and no life in me. I am hollow, I live like a shadow, trying to be invisible to others. I feel like I've even lost the capacity to have opinions on things... I have to force myself and ask "what do I believe?", and the reply is just a vague whisper in my mind.
The apathy is killing me, the yin has taken over and reduced my self to nothing...
This is the truth! This whole video is a fact! As ive started waking up, the truth is being served to me. This is real knowledge for people ready to move on and be done with an altered reality.
Oh boy.. I think you got me with this one. I turned into an echo of every single boyfriend and friend, and lost them all anyway. They all finally rejected me or forced me to let go, in the end. I'm almost completely alone and unplugged - at least the circuit has been broken - but the echoes are still controlling me, particularly my parents' voices in my head. However I am beginning to see some evidence of my true self returning - I'm nearly 50 years old, Mum died just over 2 years ago, Dad 10+ years ago, my eldest halfbrother 4+ yrs ago, and my remaining half brother has finally moved away to live out his dream of individuation, but I was left holding the bundle of illusory promises and live in the family ruin. Not a single person stepped up to help me, not even friends - how they all love to assume I'm totally fine or exaggerating my distress, when in reality I've been lost and imploding. The pain of this social curse has been almost unbearable. Always been aware of my reluctance/inability to express myself, and when I have I just hurt people as my cptsd-anger seeps through. Yeiks.
The last 2+ years have been the hardest I've experienced but it's finally starting to pay off as everyone else's voices begin to fade. I'm alive, by the skin of my teeth ✌️
Thanks for shedding light with your Echo Codependence theory!
Keep pushing, you'll shine again!
💫🐦🙏🌻💞
I want to add that for some of us, we literally lose our voice. The condition is called spasmodic dysphonia, and after my 2nd marriage to a narcissist, I stopped being able to even order a sandwich at a sandwich shop.
If you've been silenced, it's time to start singing out loud. And clap your hands.
I spent 8 months listening to Eckhart Tolle to get out of my head… it worked.
Watched a lot of your videos. This is the best , clearest most concise description of the Narc/ codependent dynamic.
This made me cry. Thank you for helping me understand better.
Before my narc relationship I used to be an independent person with a pretty strong personality. I know I will never be the same but I will try.
Check out the course, it's already helping plenty
www.richardgrannon.com/unplug-from-the-matrix-of-narcissism
Thanks for stopping by
Ancient Vedic lore places such importance on voice that there was a deity for it - Vac, who is now known as Saraswati.
For my part, I rebuilt myself through voice - chanting Buddhist mantra, specifically Om Tare Tuttare Ture Soha, the mantra of Green Tara, mother of the Buddhas. It worked for me :)
I’ve been following since 2010, when you were “Spartan life coach”. Thank you for all the years of quality content and coverage of serious issues that need attention.
You the man Richard!
Unless you mean 'voice' figuratively, I did wonder about this. It was strange the way I always lost my voice while in the company of a very close narc in my life. I kept trying to clear my throat and speak louder, and I kept saying to her "Why am I losing my voice?" and it only happened around her...
Exactly, as if every word trying to painfully get out and be expressed was a punishment and entirely belittling 💔
Demons
her disrespect and contempt of you was very powerful. You're going to have to leave her alone.
Body has responses to all our emotions. This one was quite clear
That makes a lot of sense, I have the same issue with my mum as well and I can't talk to her much less try too anymore. I also refuse to get into an argument with her too because it's as pointless as she is.
The very threat or intent, by another, to steal your voice/being is only accomplished through weak boundaries, and one's own devaluing of self. Cancel this agreement, that you deserve this. Once you collect yourself off the ground, determine to recover your fight. Fight for your voice, your being, your life. Grieve hard, but as a passage through. Then fight your way back in to your body, your presence, your breath. You are alive for this time on earth, to live, and to love and be loved. Your life is priceless. Remember that. Word to self :)
Don't accept changes to yourself from people who will not be changed by you in turn.
MOVED ON 4 YEARS NOW...& I STILL HEAR HIS VOICE DEMEANING ME IN EVERY CHOICE I MAKE....THE PRICE OF FREEDOM IS VERY HIGH ....
I used to be ashamed of speaking and then through life I learned to love myself and that was a very long and winding road but I realised I have a really beautiful speaking voice….who knew all those years ago. A lot of devils in disguise out there so let’s tread carefully ❤️🙏 thank you Richard for being so honest and encouraging our self healing.
I think I'm at the very start of that same journey.
It has taken me 2 years of focused intent, several of Richards courses, a lot of videos, Sam Vaknin, and a good therapist to help me separate myself from my narcissist mentally and emotionally. I'm taking Richards new forward focused challenge to help me leave physically. They have been invaluable to me 🙏
Good on you for putting the effort and work in for yourself. Wishing you a happy new year 😎
@@RICHARDGRANNON Thanks, I'm so proud of who I'm becoming as a result. Looking forward to an early start tomorrow wishing you a prosperous new year 😁
@richardgrannon Also, I couldn't have gotten this far without your work, many, many thanks 😊
only 2 years?? It took me 6
@@antoniyatreneva1201 it is still a life long struggle, but thanks to Richard, a GOOD counsellor, Sam Vaknin teaching me that my healing was infected also by the narcissists, and learning how to change that, it took 2 years to let go, even though I still live with him, run a business with him, and love a rescue dog with him. I wish you well on your journey 💜💜
The mythology aspect in this is sublime !! With Echo, at first I thought of the mechanism of projection so often encountered in these relationships but hell yeah, is our voice annihilated !! And thanks for reminding we are as immature as the narc is when being stuck on the yin side !! Great teaching in such a short amount of time !! 🙏
I remember being told the story of Narcissus and Echo way back in primary school... must have been around 8 years old. I find it sad the story was told to me at a time when I couldn't comprehend and truly process the important narrative of this moral tale. Only really getting the point of this story four decades later when I'm doing my own healing and recovery. Wouldn't it be great if educators could find a way to teach the life saving life skills, tools and techniques to recognise and deal with toxic people!
Erradicating the harsh inner critic is indeed very difficult because of the vacuum it leaves in our life and our lack of life skills to deal with this new reality we find ourself in. For me, talk s, journaling, mediation and Inner Child work made it possible to silence that negative voice to a level I was able to continue on with my healing. I'm at the point of reparenting and helping my Inner Child to grow up into the adult that I should have been. It feels like staring into the abyss when asking myself the question: "Who Am I?" I'm now two years into answering that question.
Honestly you know what it reminds me of (attempting to communicate effectively with my ex when he'd pretend not to understand right from wrong, that is)? That scene in how the Grinch stole Christmas where he yells "I'm an idiot!" And the cave echos back "You're an idiot!". Haha.. Why? Because it was absolutely idiotic of me to continue to try getting through to him.
He came back recently with more tired apologies. I knew I was healing when I had no desire to reconcile but also felt no bitterness towards him either. I told him exactly that because it's true. That's such a good place to be.
It’s something that affects my life and I have a lot of internal conversations on this subject.
I have reached a place in time where I need to speak with confidence so I’m looking forward to watching this.
Thankyou
Looking forward to you watching the video 😎
@@RICHARDGRANNON Thankyou!😊It made a lot of sense,I don’t think I’m as stuck as I imagine I am but this was still very helpful.
I am so happy you are working so well and I am so proud of you. I was married to a nar for 15 years, here I am 8 years later, empty. Your the healing I need.
So glad you finally told the mythology behind this. Well done!
As a victim of narcissistic abuse I developed a form of mutism.
Yea I have that too! A while back, if I had any bullying/rage directed at me, I would clamp my jaw and not speak for days.
I was a very quiet child too due to the old rents being twats.
Recently I discovered carnivore diet and I take less notice and less of a shit of most people these days xxx
Omg so much truth in Greek mythology! Have to read more of these!
I get more disappointed with myself then I do with them , my best traits get discarded and my frequency lowers and I feel depression dealing with them
Wow. Such a creepy story. Echo should of just walked away. Bind those demons & just say no.
You have helped me so much Richard and all i can say os THANK YOU. I was shown (Higher Power, whatever you want to call Him) that I developed thryoid cancer in my 30's and almost died twice due to my voice being shut down and stifled by the ex husband of 25 years. He told me that if I didn't leave I was going to die, so I finally got the courage to do it 2 years ago and still am trying to heal from that and my entire life of dealing with it from others.Having that part of me taken(my voice) traumatizes me because I went through a rape at 4 and he held his hand over my mouth, shutting down my voice and also my mother beating me growing up and saying if you don't stop crying, I'll give you something to cry about, AGAIN shutting down my voice. I am currently in the process of tryong to find it.
Glad the content is of benifit
@@RICHARDGRANNON it always is. You were very instrumental in me leaving and beginning my journey. I will always be in complete, deep gratitude to and for you. Happy New Year and God BLESS you, Sir!
Good for you.
That's awful.
I was beaten for crying and hated for singing and hated for playing games I made up.
I was despised by a narcissist mother.
She hated my freedom my free spirit. She was so toxic I had very bad asthma
Went untreated for years.
I couldn't breathe and it affected my voice.
Such demonic behaviour.
Really evil.
I ended up with thyroid problem aswell and severe back pain and eczema. Bad mental illness.
And my siblings have turned out like her.
Hate bitterness towards their kids.
Their children have no voice and are also mentally ill.
Absolutely so sad
The abuse is rife in the family.
So bad I can't even listen to them anymore.
Cut them off except for the other scapegoat.
Echo is the first time I heard that Greek story. Brilliant the way RICHARD GRANNON explains it.
Love his TH-cam talks
@@jaonmarymccormack3078Yes I agree with you, Richard is so awesome. He is definitely very gifted in bwing able to expound on these spiritual truths. I am SO sorry for all you have endured in your life, it doesn't seem very fair. At the same time, weare being taught who, why and whose we really are and I know that it is all for a VERY good purpose. He is very proud of us and He is our Voice. When He is spoken, it moves mountains, dissolves lies and brings forth healing. I am praying for you Jaon. God BLESS YOU!
I would like to tell you many things, all I can say is you are not what others did to you. If you have been showned a way to save yourself, probably you are much more worthed than you ever knew. And your life matters, beyond understanding.
I'm sorry for your past. Use it for your own greatness, owned gladfullness. You are loved.
I really appreciate your videos. I would really love to see videos that deal with narcissistic siblings and their flying monkeys. After decades of abuse from my own sibling I have finally “given up hope” and started the grieving process. I honestly am using the amoeba thought and closing back up my “cell”. Very difficult to go through, my whole life questioning and confused about my family dynamics finally has some clarity. Thank you for that, I imagine it’s not the first time you have heard this.
Maybe check out the work of Ali Zeck
😳 i thought i was the only one who experienced this. İs it like gaslighting, a psychic paralyzed state no one really heard or gets what you need, what you say, what's really going on
Could be 😉 stay tuned
I just want to thank you again! Your video advice made all the difference back when I was in a relationship with a person with this disorder. I had no idea what I was up against until I found you on youtube. I understood nothing of what was going on but I realised that you did. So I just decided to follow your advice as akward as they seemed. I believe it might have saved my life. Thank you so much for what you do!!!
Thank you Richard you explain echo so clearly now I see I have been silenced and it’s so hard not be heard it causes a person to become angry and confused ! Thanks for your video it helped me a lot ❤
Glad it helped 😎
So fitting that no one remembers Echo from the story.
What happens when your break free from abuse and look at this and see your co-depence and the pain....why can you recover from the abuse. Why can't they see themselves ? Why can one find healing and the abuser narc not ?
This is so true. This takes a while to recognise the trauma.
The bible healed my heart..... the words of yeshua healed my heart and mind making them align.
Absolutely point on. I constantly need to use specific herbs to help with voice and have learned to speak up instead of shut up. As all things, harmony of knowing when to be silent and when to say " NO ".
I am very sad. To not be able to exist to myself is the most excruciating pain. 'Have been trying. Thank you, Richard, and Sam V., for all that I have learned from both of you. It is a noble quest to help broken people. In the end, it is "hope" that is needed. "Hope" that someday I can feel inner peace. To all hurting souls on this channel, turn the
mind toward "hope".
You can feel hope ... and it will lead to your inner peace .. stay strong ..you are amazing
@@emmathackeray9976 Thank you, Emma. There are still beautiful people like you that keep hope alive. I light a candle for you in 2023, and for all people who need to feel love wherever they are tonight. All Best!
@Te Le Gram @Richard_Grannon Thank you for your kind validation. The holidays were brutal this year for me. The New Year, 2023, has a nice "ring" to it so far. The sun still rises over the sea, and I begin again. 🌅 May you be blessed with positivity and peace in 2023, and begin again with bravery. You are a gift to many. Thanks! 🎁
@Te Le Gram @Richard_GrannonP.S. I forgot to tell you that you made my day!
This is how I turned off those ruminating thoughts! Everytime a memory comes of my ex narc, too me was a created EGO I would park that thought in the back seat and REPLACE it with a positive thought, example think of my children or look around the room...
Trust it truly works.
Thank you Richard. 😊
Love to all xxx
100% spot on. Thank you Richard for explaining what I'm feeling, 9 weeks post narc. I've a long way to go after 3 years of abuse, but you give me hope.
Sending you much love & serenity 🌅✨💛may the new year be full of great tender self-care 🤗💫
That's very true. I used to always have dreams where I had to warn people of danger or had to scream but couldn't. I later in life found out that meant that I felt I had no voice.
This is what I am working on now..using my tool through podcasts talking on this. I learned about Echo in my training. Thank you so much for this. A great reminder as I get them both out of my head ❤❤
I literally remember saying that I had lost my voice-as in abilty to have an opinion etc when I got out of the situation with sons father 20 years ago and then got into another situation that I got out of 1 1/2 years ago
Still learning how to express myself comfortably
I go all day in silence, dont express emotion, and the only thing i speak anymore is the weather and whats for dinner...the thing i live with keeps my once powerful voice very isolated
Substituting "a cult" for the relationship/dual mothership and your analogy takes on a whole new dimension. You have articulated a vague notion I had on my head. When my person leaves the cult he will still be filled their dogma. I was not "born in" to it like him and I had major PTSD from it, on top of the original childhood stuff. It's 1,000 times harder for him to break free from this Narcisistic organization because he knows nothing else. The abuse was horrendous. Every kind. My heart bleeds for him.
Here are some resources for healing:
Bonnie Zieman
Reboot After Recovery From Trauma
Cracking The Cult Code For Therapists
The Challenge To Heal After Leaving A High Control Group
Absolutely fascinating. I love the way you deconstruct it, and your use of mythos. And I particularly love the way you talk about eradication of self, which is a concept I did not have a label for, but DO have experience with. One of the most traumatizing things that kept me stuck in my healing was that I felt very strongly that the narcissist wanted to make me cease to exist. That was probably the most damaging and long lasting thing, I felt like I'd been brainwashed and had become an automaton, making "authentic" choices that were really what HE wanted me to do even when he was not there. After leaving him and the situation, I have reclaimed my voice and an starting to feel comfortable in my own skin again. But I think it is a process. There are still aspects of me that need to come online. And I work on it every day. Thank you so much for the work you do, I really appreciate your insights!
Anyone should b capable of understanding this man's message. Please teach our youth..
This is the only hope left.
I had this with a Narcissist covert. He talked all the time. He was even interrupting me saying let me finish. I started interrupting other people too. I had lost the sense of rhythm in the speech. And when I didn't see him I was continuing ruminating about why he was wrong and I was right. His voices continued to appear in my head months for months after we eventually broke this friendship (me leaving the country and the job)... With grandiose Narcissists it's easier for me, I have been dealing with my bully father for my whole life. I just don't talk to him about anything important. But I broke up with him too. I am tired of walking on eggshells.
I walked away from my sister after we had a petty fight and I asked if we could talk about it. Her reply was 'I'm not discussing it, life is too short'. That was 15 yrs ago. This was the peak realisation of what been going on my whole life between us. It was this event that made me wake up to the fact that I had been silenced my entire life!!! By almost everyone in it. I am now a recluse for the past 6 years. Breast Cancer 8 month ago. The body takes the hit when your voice is gone.
Wonderful analogy. Sums up my last relationship perfectly. Its three years and those echoes have driven me mad. I think you have just stopped me from doing something really crazy, thank you 💚
Like they squash your opinions? Shoot everything you say down!☹️I'm waiting to watch this!
A lot more than that, Stay tuned
So my mom was the one in my life who showed a very high degree of narcissistic traits (undiagnosed, big life events have resolved many of these consistently, so idk what to make of that. Her and I have a very good relationship now). I remember around the age of four I had a nightmare that a beanstalk grew out of the pavement in front of our house and in the nightmare I was desperately trying to get her attention and it was like I was invisible to everyone, but most notably her. I woke up PO'ed and you know what? Honestly, I'm still pissed about it! 🤣 Why won't anyone listen to me?!
It's recently occured to me that I'm destined to relive this trauma in perpetuity with my romantic interests until... Well, I don't know, honestly. Until, I guess! Lol I feel invisible like Patrick Swayze in Ghost running his hands through people like, hello? Or like Echo maybe. Just invisible.
If you want to be seen. You have to put yourself in the Spotlight
You have to treat yourself, your inner child, like you want to be treated. Develop secure attachment with yourself first.
@Mint_Soup You’re not alone in your endeavor to be seen and heard. There are many of ghosts , standing and learning with you as well . We will ground, call in a healthy filling up of our cup and overcome. ✨💖✨
Invisibility seems to be my superpower. Playing a party game or asking an opinion of everyone, who will be overlooked? Yes. Not thought of at Christmas? Right. Not on anyone's mind unless they need something? Yep. However, at times it is very useful. Just be quiet and no one notices you.
@@magicalhealerclairvoyant521 thank you 💓 seriously 🤍
Thank you for this insightful video. I am a recovering co dependent. I'm so grateful of your work so I can learn and grow. I shall be doing the course in 2023 for sure ❤
Richard, you are right. I needed more than a year to hear me again. And the other voice comes sometime again. Some situations are trigger for that. It is not funy. Thank you for your voice! 🙂
I love your deep insights into the mechanism of narcissism. Thank you for elaborating on them so succinctly in this video. It explained why when I started to take voice lessons in my 50’s I felt more confident. Thank you for posting this video.
This is so draining. I listen to what he’s got to say but when I start talking he constantly talks over me so I stop/listen then say have you finished? Then when I say the first word he talks loudly over me. It’s like I don’t have a voice and then the deflect starts so I say right can we go back to the original question and he goes funny and walks off - there’s no communication to hear/listen they are not interested it’s just to plain and simply argue - it’s draining.
I have a friend who ended up divorcing her husband because he kept walking off on her. I'm sure he did other things too, but I was told about that and I know it got to her despite her warnings to him.
Everything you describe in your videos is literally my old best friend for many years since I cut contact with him and his group of friends I rediscovered myself it's incredible.
Please reflect on everything you’ve learned in 2022, and how much you’ve grown this year. Use your knowledge and power for good in this world. Love to all who are suffering.
Peace ☮️
It's so true that getting back or even finding your own voice is a lifetime process, there's always that wall of either indifference or misunderstanding you keep hitting when you try to actually express yourself outside of the approved discourse. What makes it so difficult is that it keeps happening with loved ones, especially when they were kinder when you were a much more docile and pleasing echo and then your whole view changes and suddenly you become the villain lol, such an interesting process and a reminder that we must go through it if we want to truly live our lives.
My ex in the devaluation stage told me the only good thing I can do is shut up and to go get on a shelf an never talk again. I was censoring myself, afraid to speak.
This tingles inside of me. I had two sisters who were raised by the same pair of narcissists who couldn't handle being challenged in any way. My two sisters became echoes and cups to fill to my parents, but I started speaking out against what I didn't agree with from a very early age. It always triggered delayed retribution from my mother and violence from my father. He was always the most violent when I stood up against something he believed, wanted me to believe, or I acted in a way he wouldn't have. At least I stopped expecting anything motherly from my mother at age six, so when she did lash out because of something I did or said weeks prior, it was to be expected.
❤🎉❤🎉yes we definitely different ❤
Like the best TH-camrs on any subject or, in this case, narcissism, you and others in this space (i.e., Dr. Ramani, Sam Vaknin) provide so much clarity about the processes involved in narcissistic relationships. Thank you for all your wisdom!
Just reading your book at the moment Richard. It explains a lot and now I understand my life a lot better. Still struggle with aspects of echo codependency especially stuck in having no agency as u have written about in your book. Before I read that I had no idea.
I´ve been waiting for the Echo Video, finally!!! thx Mr. G
Awesome, tonight's the night 😎
I've been surrounded by narcs my entire life and am still the scapegoat. Curiously, I live in a place called Echo Point (literally) and, a Human Design consultant told me I have an asteroid named Echo in my HD chart (I was in Echo Point as she was telling me about it). I lost my voice - almost entirely. Then I listened to this. Astounding.
After my relationship I started to think of people differently, I thought they where weird or odd, but really they where just like me. He always wanted me to feel that people who had similarities to me ( best described as the nerds ) where really weird and embarrassing. Coming out of that relationship I knew that they weren’t and that they where probably the type of people that I would feel comfortable around but I had a voice telling me that they where weird. I’m so glad over time that I shook that voice off because I’m now around the people that I love
Absolutely wonderful explanation and story. Thank you. This deeply reasonated in me. I'm grateful!!!!
A happy, happy New year to everyone..
So I am not with a narcissist nor was I recently with one, my girlfriend just got out of a 15 year relationship with a narcissist and your videos have really helped me understand her trauma and helped me understand his psycho behavior towards us... Thank You!
This version of explanation needs to be heralded as a brilliant plain language explanation and concrete idea of the phenomena that is narcissist magnetic connection to co-dependants !! It is magnificent. I believe its like a breaking open of one of the holy seals to godlike understanding. It has history...contextualised to the Tao and Jung...and is very plain in its explanation!! Maybe someone who has educated themselves (as an 'autodidact' as I think Richard here is) as opposed to having been educated by 'the system,' could only have understood, spoken and then taught this in such plain speaking english! Thankyou Richard Grannon!!
I pray your words here can "echo" aaahhhh!... [ in a positive way ..lol! = positively] into our future for all in need of hearing it hear them!! I have needed this! The plainest of language is the most effective and accessible in its utility! Those who use it understand its power in the most effective and accessible way!! Just magnificent! Thankyou for your minding of this issue so brilliantly! I have watched your videos for some time....and only as recently as yesterday did one of them PINPOINT the VERY NEEDED understanding of this phenomena....I have been seeking for so very long now. A big cheers to you!
Sometimes it takes a lifetime to figure things out. My voice was eradicated before I was five years old. Sadly, my sense of self has been "barely there" throughout my whole life. Through my studies via lectures from Richard, Sam V., I am able to understand alot more than ever before. It is healing to understand/comprehend deeply such delicate issues. To anyone that is in pain today I honor you through what I myself am going through. We must try to make the pain our friend, and comfort it within ourselves. Then maybe it won't be quite as terrible.
I like your voice in this confusing fray. Thank you
DDO 🧚🏼♂️
Henry Wadsworth Longfellow "Three silences there are. The first of speech, the second of thought, the third of desire" let that sink in to your core...
"And they tend...*we tend.."
I think anywhere you can include a "we," it helps the message come across as less shaming, even though it is so slight.
Some of my favorite mental health professionals use "we" when detailing the lived experience of specific diagnoses. Kati Morton is a good example; the inclusive language she uses definitely improves the palatability of some of her more difficult messages.
Great information!! We don't even realize we are expected to reflect them back to them until we are in too deep.
Merry Christmas and Happy New Year, Richard! 🎉🎁🎄⛄💥
Merry Christmas and Happy New year 😎😎
You’re right. This is terrifying. Really terrifying. Recently out of a relationship like this… but not really… bc even though the divorce is finalized and we don’t live together… we had kids and it’s impossible for full separation. I’m really struggling with how to deal with all this now. Especially when I (and the kids) constantly hear what a mistake it was to divorce etc etc etc. Also… terrifying and humbling to learn about all this and my own emotional immaturity and toxicity. Gotta start somewhere though right? Anyway. Thanks for this video. The course sounds very interesting.
😂 lol. Right?!? I wish! He only says we should remarry 3x a week. Lol! His voice is already in my head though. 😣
I tried to divorce and got sucked back in. Nothing works. No help from anybody. It is true the whole family is this way. I married a woman that already have children. My mother in law lives with us. So yes it is passed down. Always feel like death is at the next corner. When I speak, no matter the subject war is at hand. I've made my family dept free and now a enemy???
@@joeworkoutbarnes4507 You can set your self free. It may be rough for a while but you owe this to your self. Living with in laws sounds like hell
@@joeworkoutbarnes4507 just an eg. I am going to leave my comfy home to flee to refuge because of my bpd husband, he is hell personified, my family of birth love him so I’ve gone NC
Even though we are the victims of a narcissist, I love how you have the courage to admit that we also have our own immaturity and or toxicity. In my case the difference between my wife and me is I'm willing to accept my flaws and try to improve on them. Peace on your journey.
I appreciate your teachings, Richie. I wish I could afford all of your courses. Worth every cent! God bless🙏🕊️❤️
good stuff .. especially appreciate your introducing echo into the conversation.
I am echo! What a lightbulb moment!
Although, I might be wrong.
I lost my voice , I lost who I was....he stole it....BUT I got it back!!
Just WOW!!!!!!!! Mind is blown.
Is that like never being able to finish a sentence? All day? Yup.
It goes far deeper than that. Stay tuned
Four words… I get four words
Always interrupting me-talking over me-answers a question that someone asked ME🤦♀️
Just got off the phone with her trying to get closure. More hate, circular conversations, I abused her. Sick
Forget closure. It's just another trap we set ourselves. Walk away, don't look back.
To each of our relations we speak in different voice. Once not around those voices are gone with them...namastey
I call it: The goat speaks.
My narc sister didnt care to understand me. Just wanted me to apologize for the offenses i caused them.
And she told me to shut up so she could talk.
But i got a big hug and was told how much she loved me.
Thank you for that passionate rendition of the myth of Narcissus. By the way, Zeus' wife's name is Hera. It is my understanding that it was the goddess Nemesis cursed narcissus to fall in love with his own reflection to punish him for his cruel treatment of Echo. As a side note, a modern version of this story tells itself with Axl Rose and Erin Everly. Cheers!
Co dependents have their own voice and self determination until they hook up with a narcissist. They’re subject to the gravational pull of the narcissist. Because they had a narcissist parent they’re transported back to childhood and being an obedient child
This video really speaks to me. If my mother hates onions, I hated onions. Both my dad and I learned over time that vocalizing any thought she had not put in our head resulted withdrawal of all affection, and if the deviation was egregious enough, three hours of screaming without pausing for breath. The thought expressed didn’t even have to be disagreement, only independently arrived at. She literally always said “we think this and we think that.” She went into a three hour tantrum once because I fixed the family vacuum without asking her how to do it first, and also my dad because he didn’t tell me to go ask her. I was in my thirties at the time and had moved home to be a care taker s as they were dealing with illness and age.