Do You Really Need a Bike Fit?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 21 พ.ย. 2024
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Bike fitting is forever evolving due to trends.
At one time it was said a person needed wider handlebars,then it went to narrower bars for aerodynamics.
Crank lengths were based on the frame size, now it’s being said that a lot of people were being sold bikes with cranks a size or two too large leading to more fitting issues..
Buying a bike is like buying a suit or dress, the tailor’s responsibility is to see that the article of clothing allows the person to move and function with out discomfort at the same time giving a proper appearance..
People have to educate themselves to a degree enough to be able to ask questions.
Great video Reginald. Looking forward to your next video. All the best!
That’s a really excellent comment! I love your analogy. 🙂👍🏻
I don't need anyone else to tell me if my shoes fit .
I would prefer a guy or gal with experience rather than a flash studio and high tech expensive gear.
I had a fit over 20 years ago by trainer/mechanic who just used basic tools,observation and experience.
Shifted me up and forward set up on the trainer,I would ride a few days outside ,come back and re-evaluate.
Changing position a little at a time,drastic changes can bring more trouble than you hope to fix.
Since then I have made small changes as I age or change shoe/pedal etc.
I just use a large mirror,levels ,tape ,plumb line! K.I.S.S. I will be 65 this year and have ridden since a boy,will continue as long as I can.
Wonderful! I wish you many more years of happy and safe riding! 🙂👍🏻
Really enjoy this format of chatting whilst riding. Very jealous of the conditions there, though 👍
Yes the weather here is often lovely. 🙂 Thank you. ❤️
First viewer 😋 Changed my saddle and i got numb hands, something that never happened before. I will move it back a bit. Other than that, i somehow managed to get a very comfortable bike as is from the store. No more back pain, no more elbow pain, no more pain in general. Thanks for the video :). Cheers!
Thank you! Happy riding! 😃👍🏻
Great job Regiee, don't be afraid to experiment yourself. One advice I would give is make one change, adjustment at the time. Otherwise you'll never know what change was the right one. Peace
That’s 100% correct! In robotics we had the same philosophy of you must always be aware of your datum line and only adjust 1 factor at a time. Great comment and great advice! Thank you for reminding me of this. 🙂👍🏻
@reginaldscot165 it's exactly the same in psychology and any other science.
Thanks for the video. Please be careful. Some traffic passed you too closely for comfort.
I know right! It was too close, I think I should avoid this road at this time of day. 🙁
As I've gotten older, I've become more particular about where and when I ride. I tend to ride at dawn on less-used roads. Perhaps it's a luxury. So I'm impressed with your willingness to ride the course you rode in this video. Back on topic, with so many online options for purchasing bike equipment and accessories, I'm guessing the only way brick and mortar bike shops can stay in business is to offer services...and bike-fitting is one of those. It makes sense, then, that bike shops will oversell the need for a bike fit. I tried to purchase a new saddle at a bike shop. I asked if they could attach it to their bike fit machine (can be done in seconds), because I can tell right-away whether the saddle even stands a chance of working for me. I just wanted to sit on it and make a quick assessment. They wanted to charge me to do that and so I declined. The irony is that basic services that were once free are no longer free. (I worked in bike shop decades ago).
Excellent comment. Some very good observations about why bike fitting is pushed and how things have changed.
As for the roads, there are some I now totally avoid, they are just impossible to ride safely. But the roads you see here are in my local area and so if I ride from my house I have to use them to get anywhere interesting. After a while you get used to it. And to be honest, they are less busy than the roads in my home town of Nottingham. 😁
Thank you and all the best!
As you say "theres so many things you can do yourself". It helps if you research some basics before you buy the bike. Knowledge is crucial. Ballpark reach, saddle height etc. And particularly crank length. Too many bikes come with 172.5 cranks irrespective of frame size. Saddle make and model. Bib shorts quality etc. The fine tuning is then for personal preference.
Agreed, great comment. 🙂👍🏻
I contacted a bike shop (with a TH-cam channel). I wanted to get their recommendations for saddle and shoes... They recommended a £400 bike fit... In order to then sell me £600 of kit. 😂
Holy 🐄 ! 😳
@@reginaldscot165 to be fair I'd be happy to pay for the expensive kit. But my bike was custom built and the frame builder did before and after bike fit. A bit galling to have to pay for another fit!
Fantastic videos you have. Ive been in this rabbithole of new tech and not questioning likable youtubers. I have now sold most of my stuff and gone back on rimbrake. Because it worked fine before.
Good for you, sometimes it’s easy to lose sight of the love of cycling because of all the flashy nonsense that’s pushed in our faces.
All the best and safe cycling! 🙂❤️
@@reginaldscot165Did you see the new way overpriced Colnago with rim brakes ?
Great video. When I watch these bike fitting videos I always come away saying it's similar to a snake oil salesman. Many times the bike fitter will contradic themselves.
It has become a bit like that. I think there is a lot of good fitting knowledge out there… the hard part is finding it among all the unnecessary nonsense. 😉
Which is the Achilles heal of TH-cam and social media😀
This is a very informative video. Anyone looking for a new bike or even someone who is questioning whether their position on the bike could be better, should watch this. Like many things in this industry, we the public are shown new and shiny things which 'must' be better because thats what we're told. The majority is smoke and mirrors.
I've spent many years falling for this sh1t.
Many thanks for your time.
Thank you that’s really kind. 🙏🏻🙂
Hey I always find your content is unbiased and straight to the point which I enjoyed the most. My experience with bike fitting is probably as simple as you described. Took only 45 minutes, me and my bike was on wahoo roller and a good eyesight from the bike fitter. One of the questions he asked was how many hours that I do weekly? Other than that everything went well. Yes I did make few adjustments along the way after that and so far no more saddle sores!
Excellent news! But I don’t know who’s videos you have been watching? “Unbiased and straight to the point?” 😂 well, I don’t know if I can agree with that but I really appreciate the compliment and I just try to be honest with my viewers. 🙂❤️
Pay hundreds of dollars to get your saddle moved back six millimetres. With that kind of money invested no wonder people gush about bike fits. Deep down they are wondering if they are being scammed and to not gush about the bike fit would be an admission of that
That’s a very good point. 👍🏻
I haven’t had a bike fit and I probably won’t because of cost. However, you’re paying for someone to tell you what to change. You are paying for knowledge and experience,(hopefully) not just the wrenching so to speak. If money wasn’t an issue and I was having discomfort/pain, then I would pay for some help.
If you're already comfortable on the bike then it already fits. If you come to a bike fitter with a list of the issues you have, there's a better chance of the fit resolving them - but only if it's with an knowledgeable bike fitter.
Sadly most of the fancy tech in bike fitting is so that an untrained minimum wage worker can perform the fit to save the shop owner money (In the short term) as the owner has been fooled into thinking they're getting away without needing to pay for people who know what they're doing and know what they're worth. They don't understand that the random guy who's seen everything because he's got decades of working on bikes behind him is the only reason to go to a bike shop these days, when everything is available online without leaving the couch. When the fit is done by someone who's just following the instructions the fitting software gives them, it's got a decent chance of being worse than doing nothing.
I completely agree, also I was thinking, many professional riders who get professional bike fits are probably not that comfortable. Just something you said made me think of that fact. 🤔🙂
The difference between comfortable and more efficient though? You could be comfortable because your body has adapted over years but be incredibly inefficient
@@out_spocken Apart from looking for peak aerodynamic efficiency, which is only achieved with serious experimentation in a wind tunnel, peak efficiency in terms of putting power to the pedals generally is what riders will do by default. The main issue for a bike fit to look at is whether a rider is flexible enough to be comfortable leaned further forward, as there's a double benefit of getting more force from the glutes and a smaller frontal area if this is an option. The downsides tend to be dealing with more weight on the arms, more forward curve in the lower back and not being able to look forwards comfortably.
One of the interesting results on the body knowing what it's doing that I read about was that the cadence riders are most comfortable at is also the one they have the best efficiency at.
Thanks to gears, a bike can accommodate whatever speed on contraction your muscles prefer easily, while for other sports, such as running, select for people who have the right gear built into their physiology.
I whole heartedly agree with that. I’ve seen it quite a few times. NOT on my bikes of course because I talk with whomever I’m asking to do it to see if they actually understand biomechanics and how a bike should fit your body. Rather than your body fitting to the bike.
Totally agree with the bit about tool snobs. A plumb line will ALWAYS be accurate, a fancy laser or even a spirit level can be inaccurate.
Good point. 🙂👍🏻
I think it depends whether you have friends that have (proper) knowledge about fitting or not. It´s hard to notice / measure all the details if you're on your own. Also, as a starter you likely won't have a smart trainer or roller that you can snap the bike into. Something like this makes fitting much easier in my opinion.
I personally had a mixed experience with a bike fit I did. I was fitted for all contact points of the bike (incl saddle pressure mapping) + cleats a few years ago and basically only kept the vertical / horizontal setting of the saddle. I did learn a bit from them, which was good and it was something that helped me get rid of a specific pain. I also got fairly useful information on stance width, pedal axle and handlebar length / width.
I had issues with a new saddle and how they angled it though and basically destroyed 2 perfectly fine bibs over time (rubbed on sharp edges) . The manufacturer was surprised about the wear and recommended angling slightly different... Well, they both more or less ended up blaming each other for the issue. Ended up changing the saddle again, had no issue since then.
Agreed. Interesting story about the saddle, how unfortunate that they weren’t more helpful? Must have been expensive after all the damage to your bibs?
All the best and safe riding. 🙂👍🏻
Good stuff. As a former cycling coach I had to guide many riders in their quest of the best fit. In some cases it takes weeks, others even longer. After trainings or competition it was always standard to talk things through with them. Next, I always helped out people who did not wish or pretend to go racing, so their position would be totally different. I don't believe in any short-term process for a lot of money when the actual feedback of the customer is the most important thing.
Well said! I completely agree. 👍🏻
Here's my fitting protocol: Getvtge frame generally right according to height, buy a complete bike, figure out which bits suck within a fortnight, swap bits with mates.
That's it, I've just saved you hundreds of NZD.
Well I don’t have any mates so i build my own bikes up. 😅
@@reginaldscot165 Don't feel too bad (I don't think you do) mates are a real mixed bag.
When I got my new bike from my local bike shop they fit me for free
Was it a bike fit or a bike setup? Some shops offer fits, but normally you need to spend quite a lot on a bike. 😁
@@reginaldscot165 it was a full fit they started by getting seat height and how far forward or back what angle it should be then they got my cleats got them in the proper position that felt best then handle bars stem height and angles how long or short handlebar width etc the whole process took a few hours and a week or two later came back in for a follow up and did some tweaking and it feels perfect now it added almost 2 to 3 mph to my average speed probably because I feel comfortable on it now I was very fortunate to work with those guys they were just a blast throughout the whole process
I just finished several months of hell with my bike fit. In the spring of 2024, I rode a metric century that became pure torture mainly because of changing my fit without understanding it. And they we're small changes. I had several ideas that were wrong. I put the setting back to near where they were a bit at a time. Surprise, surprise. The pain changed. A few more tweaks and I'm almost pain free. Greg Lemond's book will get you there or very close. Save a few and get it second hand. A few simple tools and you're there. And measure before making adjustments so you can go back.
Excellent advice, yes the Lemond method is my personal preference.
I do my own fitting and fiddling. When I finally get it right I ride it for a while and then I change it and start fiddling again. I've been doing it for years. But I can think my bike is just perfect and then the next day, less than twenty-four hours later, something's wrong. It doesn't fit the same. My body underwent micro changes in my sleep.
That’s funny. How odd, maybe you are just very sensitive to small changes. I’m a bit like that with some things. Are you quite OCD by any chance? 🙂
@@reginaldscot165 I'm not generally OCD, however there are some things that I simply must get right. I care or I don't. Hot or cold, avoiding lukewarm.
Did my very first (and only) bike fit in august 2022 after riding road bikes for about 6 years. I regret not have done it earlier. I would never have figured out some of the adjustments myself, and yes they helped. Of course when you have been to a bike fit you probably are more able to do it yourself, but a good bike fitter doesn´t only know about adjusting your bike, your cleats and so on, but he/she is preferably also a physiotherapist or something similiar. Then not only your bike will be analyzed but also your body, your mobility and all that jazz. A good bike fitter will also tell you to return after a while or when you´re ready to give feedback and maybe make some further adjustments. Tools, computers and "fancy" equipment can be very useful, but the bike fitter´s education, knowledge and experience is more important. And of course just like people are different, bikes are also different, and even if the differences might seem minor they might impact you more than you think.
And also: some adjustments might feel wrong at first, but after a while your body might adapt. If your body have gotten used to the wrong setup, the right/correct setup might feel very wrong at first. This is also why I prefer going to an experienced bike fitter and not only trusting my own judgement after watching a youtube video.
Great points 🙂👍🏻
Bought some second hand pedal which turned out to be very worn. Caused serious knee pain! Main reason for commenting however, is to express how jealous I am of your Bruniean sunny weather. From a Brit living in Scandinavia. 😅
Yikes! Sounds like my worst nightmare! I’m allergic to the cold, I think I must be solar powered like superman. 😂 For me it’s a cold day if it drops below 25C 🥶
Yes I have a similar experience when my cleats get worn out, as soon as they start to get a bit floppy the knee pain creeps in. 🥺
@@reginaldscot165 haha yeah I understand. :)
May I ask how it happened you landed in Brunei? Guess it's not the typical place to move... ;-)
new Bike new Bike fit at more and more money ... what you say makes perfect sense ... and if you join a club there are people there who can usually help for free !!
Correct 👍🏻
Great topic. I think most people (most people being non-racers/recreational weekend cyclists) don't need a bike fit, so long as their height/length falls squarely in a particular size of their chosen bike's sizing guide. There used to be a reputable bike shop in Sausalito (across the GG Bridge from San Francisco) called A Bike Odyssey owned by a guy called Tony, an older head/statesman of the local cycling scene. Anyway, I bought several bikes from his shop, and when I bought a bike he'd spend about 20 minutes getting my fit right, and that fit would last as long as the bike. It's not rocket science, and the notion that - once again - we need costly complicated technology is just another marketing angle. Final thought: I'm astounded that most bike shops (in SF at least) don't offer a free 'basic fit' to anyone buying a bike. It would be so easy for the shop and it would mean so much to the customer.
Great points! Yes you are absolutely right, it’s not rocket science, it’s actually quite simple to set up a bike for normal everyday riding. 🙂👍🏻
Yeah, I live in the south Bay and most bike shops only care about money. I was never once offered a free basic fit from any shop I bought a bike from.
They will make more money offering an add on service even if they got it wrong in the first place.
I have a slightly old school view that you need to get it wrong to get it right. You need to ride with a too high/low saddle for a while to understand why it’s a problem. But I also think new bikes should always come with a choice of bar width, crank length, stem length etc in an ideal world.
That would be nice, it’s what I offered my customers as all my bikes were custom built. 🙂
I recently had a bike fit in my local bike shop. All good, but after hours of riding decided to shorten the stem from 130mm to 110mm and the seat post I changed for one set back more. So, the bike fit gave me the starting point the rest is tweaking after that. In my case the bike fit made a difference but see where you are coming from.
A difference of 20mm in your stem is significant. Sounds like the fit had you a bit stretched out?
@@reginaldscot165 I'm mainly into MTB but recently bought a used road bike so I felt stretched on the bike. Not sure if I need 120mm still playing around with my position on the road bike. The MTB has been sorted for years, so I guess I'm not yet used to being a "roadie". 😉
Great video! Have you thought covered more on Di2 and mechanical shifters in your next video?👍🏻
I think I have spoken about Di2 in about 3 videos now, so probably most people are sick of my opinion on that. 😂
Cue the bike fitters analyzing his bar tape wear.
Well, this is only my 3rd ride with this tape (because it’s just falling apart) so by the 4th ride there won’t be any surface left to analyse. 😂
@@reginaldscot165 Cue the guy commenting before the video ends (me) 😂
I personally make a run for the hills when someone is pushing me towards the guy with the latest tech or gadgets - chances are the guy or lass can't use their brain to deduct the result and are expecting the machine or software to do it. From other life experiences, that in many cases means no critical thinking from their own head. If the machine runs the show, it will go astray. I get called a luddite and I consider it a compliment.
You sound smart to me… just imagine all the people now who can’t read a map… or even own one. What happens when the Google maps is down. 😁
Bike fit James always reminds me of those dodgy life insurance salesmen from the 1980s
I’m just a bit too young to remember that, but… I think I get what you mean. 😁
No you don't unless you're getting paid to ride.
Fair point. 👍🏻🙂
Or you're clueless how to set yourself up on a bike and are riddled with self doubt
@@TobiMcTobefaceriding comes with a lot of growing pains, I don’t blame anyone for wanting to pay their way out of it.
I think that can be said for 90 percent of the bike info on these channels.
Its not rocket science... Adjust your seat height until it feels right etc.
Indeed
Dude. How do you record this without all the wind noise?
Well first I don’t eat baked beans 🫘 before the ride.
The lavalier microphone I have has some wind cancelling ability but it’s not that good. So I try to pick low wind days and ride away from heavier traffic if possible.
@@reginaldscot165 thanks, I'll have to try something like that or get a mini dead cat for my lavalier. Anyhow, I fully appreciate this fitting video and agree with 99 percent. I was once managing the service department of a busy shop in San Francisco and the owners thought it would be a good idea to send me to a Body Geometry Fit Certification at Specialized. That was interesting, but after two weeks of training, none of the attendees nor any of the instructors could dial in my fit better than I could using my own time, tools, and intuition. After receiving my certification, I told the bike shop I was working for, "No thanks, I'll pass", let them keep my last paycheck, and went off to work for an endurance bicycle manufacturer where the staff were all racers of the 200+ miles sort. I learned more there and became more and more convinced that having a bike fit done for you was not only not necessary, but not as effective as simply learning to read your own dynamic body.
Why the long sleeves?
Prevents Solar radiation burns.
I wear a very light long sleeve with a small tight fitting hood that fits under my helmet to protect from the sun; I much prefer it to sunscreen.
You need to replace that bartape ;-)
Would you believe it is only a week old. 😆
I’m going to have to agree with you on that. 😂😂
Agree that it's the craftsman and not the tool that counts. That said motion capture and pressure mapping can be valuable tools in the the right hands. I think a good bike fit can be a good value. People spend thousands on their bike equipment so I think a few hundred dollars for a qualified fitter is excellent value.
Great points! I remember seeing a really nice bike fit set up in Malaysia at a Specialized shop. Glass wall room with all the fancy gadgets you can shake a stick at. And the guy doing the fits was a teenager who works part time at the shop, and had the minimum amount of training on the system. 😅
So yes, tools are great, if you have a competent fitter. 😁👍🏻
If the guy doing the fitting is a tool you have a problem!
Isn't the bike fit all about the last 20%? Thats what I'd.wa t to be paying for. The fitter to fully understand the best position for me...pending any issues.
One would hope so, but most people end up moving the fit about themselves after to get it just right. Because at the end of the day the fitter can’t feel what you feel.
the video could have been titled, do we need a perfect bike fit (say one based on watts and heart rate). no.
Been to 3 different fitters over years, all 3 of them had their own story, position was tottaly different every time. Giant waste of time and money.
Ah! Maybe it’s all snake oil! 😁👍🏻
Not really, unless you have frustrated all options and need a professional to help you.
Yup 👍🏻 🙂
Heres my thoughts. Bicycles have been around since at least the end of the American Civil War to the time of the French Revolution depending on your definition of what a bicycle is. I find it ludicrous that after between a hundred and fifty to two hundred years of of technology existing you are expected to walk out with a product that isnt already dialed in then you sre expected to come back with five hundred bucks to sort it out. You'd think that this issue would have been dialed in by now.
I offered a free fit with all my bikes. And 1 years free service. But most customers still prefer to buy from shops that offer nothing. 😅
Yeah we know we don't need a bike fit.Tell us something new.
Do you refer to yourself as “we?”
He has a mouse in his pocket btw.
@@reginaldscot165 Is that the best you could come up with?? It made us smile all the same.
And here we go again.....all new stuff is crap and only the old school ways work the best...🙄
About 20 fits a year? That is not moderat experienced.....
What ist your qualification other than selling and repairing bikes? Are you also a physiotherapist?
You know that roughly 90% of all People have a leg length discrepancy, or that about 60% of the population has different sized feet (lenght, width, height) and around 30% need 2 different shoes?
Just some of the issues a good fitter needs to know and see!
And that is also why a plumb line is a bad tool for bike fitting.
Please stop telling ppl what is good or not if you have no clue what you are talking about. Some will take it as a given fact and ride in pain just cause they saw your vids.
In your nonsensical argument you did not explain why a plumb line is a bad tool. Yes it has nothing to do with shoes?
I don’t disagree that a good fitter can be useful. I just don’t agree that a good fitter needs high tech tools to do a good fit. Or that high tech tools means the fit will be good. It’s a very obvious and logical argument.
@@reginaldscot165 Simple math, Reginald.
What do you think will happen with your messurement if a person you are fitting has a lld AND 2 different sized feet, in same size shoes?
The angles will be way off and your beloved plumb line will point at 2 toatally different places L/R
Why schould a fitter not use modern hi tech to aid him in his job?
If you take the LLD as an example:
.5 cm are hard too see even for a good fitter.
A Laser meassuring system will see that within seconds, and a good fitter will know how to fix that = Time saving.
no trial and error like you propose doin, no guesswork.
I think his topic for the video ends with a question mark? Is it possible that he can have an opinion based on his experience?
I’m one that can get myself pretty dang close with using the old KOPS method and then adjusting as I go until I feel it’s the best I can get it. I don’t disagree with you on utilizing the newer tools like lasers to measure; however, there is still something that no one has mentioned about these tools. And that is the fact that all of these fitters like Retul have “ranges” that “most people “ fall into.
That’s overall ok, but it doesn’t work for everyone. For instance, my saddle height on their system shows that I should be higher than I actually ride it. And this is because my left ankle is fused and I can’t get all the way down on the down stroke of the pedal without dropping my left hip off the side of the saddle.
And lastly, I believe that “bike fit” is progressive. Correct?
I’d sincerely like to hear your thoughts, because I’m open to hear new ideas so I can consider them and perhaps make adjustments. 👊🏼🙏🏼
@@reginaldscot165 Hi Reg, you are nailing it on the head !!
In my experience, one should only consider a bike fit if you're buying an expensive bike with the purpose of riding professionally. And even then, you can do most of the bike fitting yourself. For example saddle height, fwd/aft position...,stem length/height, and cleat position..., considering you have the right size frame. And if you are unable to do these basic adjustments, and you want to ride competitive, then I'm afraid you better let it go. Get off the bike and take up walking instead, because you are only going to hurt yourself lol. Then competitive cycling is not for you.
But hey, if people feel they need to spend money on fancy smoke and mirrors, let them learn the hard way!!
Keep up the good work :)✌
@@66mikkim I think if the rider is intending to do personal bests or compete in races at high level , then it might be down to a 1mm difference .... if they are just going for a Sunday ride with club mates how does a £400 bike fit really add much to their experience ?