And yet another video of this series being immensely satisfying to follow and to reenact. It already matched completely to G2 at all Corners easily within tolerance, without any additional bumbing up of degrees or any further controlpoints woodoo, just by having it build completly symmetrical. Maybe that shows in one more way how - more then enough - close to perfect the exact shown workflow path and solution already is. Thanks again - so much - for showing to us mere beings of the future - ways to deal with the standard standalone Rhino and therefore only the (Global)EdgeContinuity tool (Plugin) as a nummerical control.
I think when you did the blend curve on the last (top) surface it got slightly outside and then into the area of the top surface. Hence, you got the small end edges when tried to MatchSUrf with a Pull. I wish you could show us the close up of that operation (the Blend Curve) to see whether that was the case. That is why it was quite difficult/impossible to achieve CUrvature to the Top surface. Has that intersection been the case, then matching the side surface to a isocurves slightly in from the corner of the Top surface might have solved the issue... but it is very time consuming to rematch to isocurves and then trim all the excessive areas of the top surface.
I don't have the file anymore, but I see your points. Really though, what I have found is that if you have a surface patch like the top one and you want it to be a certain level of continuity (G1/G2/G3) then the easiest way is to make all the surrounding blends one level above the desired continuity for the final patch. This is even true for four sided holes in which all all sides are untrimmed single span surfaces. So if the desire is for G2 for that top surface, the easiest route is to set the surrounding surfaces G3, which may or may not be possible depending on what version of Rhino you are running. Or - put another way - if your surrounding surfaces are single span G2 blends (even where all four edges are untrimmed) anything above G1 can be a struggle, due to the vert sharing at each corner. Of course you can always way over-define that final patch and force it into spec, but often your curvature graph will not be pretty. It's all a balance.
@@thirtysixverts I did a bit of a different approach with as minimum as possible parametrization of surfaces for my keyboard keys (shown on my channel). I did it in Alias though with only simple 3×3 plains and 'Square' command (5×3 and 5×5 for blend surfaces) + the actual corner surface 6×6. I did not have to extend the base surface inwards (split, detach) either. But I had to make a simple patch surface 4×4 on the most "flat" corner where the Corner blend would be built. Then simple 5×5 curve with Pull (project) to that small patch and blending to isocurves of the corresponding surrounding surfaces (3×3, thus giving me very simple isocurves 3rd degree). Then I built the Corner blend surface, Projected the edge to the built small Patch and matched it to curvature bumping it to 6×6 and with a very minimal Control point adjustments to achieve C2 on all edges. That is how I built all of my keys. Following are some shared pictures. (File tolerances in mm\deg): position 0.001 tangency: 0.1 curvature: 0.2 drive.google.com/drive/folders/1iIADzSnUTrIK8peAE35LTS6dJ-t7adgN?usp=sharing
First of all thank you so much for such an amazing chapters, it's always a blessing to find in depth videos like these, to truly understand why and how to do things right from the start. (Definitely looking forward to the next chapters) And last but not least, I saw this video (th-cam.com/video/zvVKHPIaxOU/w-d-xo.html) that show a tool in rhino similar to the "global matching analysis that you have, although I don't know if is already available on rhino 7 or will be on future versions.
Great video again Sky, in situations like this my standard rule of thumb is degree 3 primary Srf, degree 5 for the three Blend surfaces and degree 7 for the final tertiary Srf. Reason being is that we know the complexity goes up with every step. For what it’s worth, I don’t expect perfect curvature on that final tertiary surface. If one of your primary Srf or secondary Srf isn’t perfect, there’s no way you’ll get curvature on that final surface.
I like your approach/thought process! A big part of what I wanted to show with this series is just how hard it is to achieve G2 across and entire model - I think so many people think with Rhino since they check the "Curvature" box on some command, then what they create must be curvature. Having VSR's GMA really opened my eyes to how hard it is to achieve!
Rhino has always been a bit quirky with SurfMatch command (Multiple Match to be more precise). VSR Shape Modelling definitely can help, but it is a third party plugin and is quite expensive (has almost the same price as Rhino itself). I had a quite similar situation for my designs and have been trying to use degenerate points: yes it is against the rules but sometimes it works.
I of course love and recommend VSR, but since it's not even for sale anymore I try to do as much of this series as possible with "stock" Rhino commands - indeed I was able to get better matching with VSR, but so few of us have it, if I was to make those commands integral to this series I think the audience would be much smaller. I'd be interested to see a situation where you found that degenerate points works better than a trimmed edge! I try to avoid them, but I'm always open to new ideas, and if it works, it works!
@@thirtysixverts Yes, the trick is to use one degenerate points and if possible to the closest to 90° angle between the edges which converge to that point (to avoid rippling surface as much as possible). Matching a curvature though is a bit tricky using degenerate point. It is somehow a 'special case' but works most of the time when you have quite flexible curves on three perpendicular planes.
And yet another video of this series being immensely satisfying to follow and to reenact.
It already matched completely to G2 at all Corners easily within tolerance, without any additional bumbing up of degrees or any further controlpoints woodoo, just by having it build completly symmetrical. Maybe that shows in one more way how - more then enough - close to perfect the exact shown workflow path and solution already is.
Thanks again - so much - for showing to us mere beings of the future - ways to deal with the standard standalone Rhino and therefore only the (Global)EdgeContinuity tool (Plugin) as a nummerical control.
Amazing series!
Love this series Sky...!!! keep it coming would love to see some tuts in VSR.
The next vid is a VSR one!
@@thirtysixvertscan't wait... dropped you an email .... Cheers Schuyler
@@lbxhc8073 sipping my coffee and going through your email now!
I think when you did the blend curve on the last (top) surface it got slightly outside and then into the area of the top surface. Hence, you got the small end edges when tried to MatchSUrf with a Pull. I wish you could show us the close up of that operation (the Blend Curve) to see whether that was the case. That is why it was quite difficult/impossible to achieve CUrvature to the Top surface.
Has that intersection been the case, then matching the side surface to a isocurves slightly in from the corner of the Top surface might have solved the issue... but it is very time consuming to rematch to isocurves and then trim all the excessive areas of the top surface.
I don't have the file anymore, but I see your points. Really though, what I have found is that if you have a surface patch like the top one and you want it to be a certain level of continuity (G1/G2/G3) then the easiest way is to make all the surrounding blends one level above the desired continuity for the final patch. This is even true for four sided holes in which all all sides are untrimmed single span surfaces. So if the desire is for G2 for that top surface, the easiest route is to set the surrounding surfaces G3, which may or may not be possible depending on what version of Rhino you are running. Or - put another way - if your surrounding surfaces are single span G2 blends (even where all four edges are untrimmed) anything above G1 can be a struggle, due to the vert sharing at each corner. Of course you can always way over-define that final patch and force it into spec, but often your curvature graph will not be pretty. It's all a balance.
@@thirtysixverts I did a bit of a different approach with as minimum as possible parametrization of surfaces for my keyboard keys (shown on my channel). I did it in Alias though with only simple 3×3 plains and 'Square' command (5×3 and 5×5 for blend surfaces) + the actual corner surface 6×6. I did not have to extend the base surface inwards (split, detach) either.
But I had to make a simple patch surface 4×4 on the most "flat" corner where the Corner blend would be built. Then simple 5×5 curve with Pull (project) to that small patch and blending to isocurves of the corresponding surrounding surfaces (3×3, thus giving me very simple isocurves 3rd degree). Then I built the Corner blend surface, Projected the edge to the built small Patch and matched it to curvature bumping it to 6×6 and with a very minimal Control point adjustments to achieve C2 on all edges.
That is how I built all of my keys. Following are some shared pictures.
(File tolerances in mm\deg):
position 0.001
tangency: 0.1
curvature: 0.2
drive.google.com/drive/folders/1iIADzSnUTrIK8peAE35LTS6dJ-t7adgN?usp=sharing
Well done keep up 👏
First of all thank you so much for such an amazing chapters, it's always a blessing to find in depth videos like these, to truly understand why and how to do things right from the start. (Definitely looking forward to the next chapters)
And last but not least, I saw this video (th-cam.com/video/zvVKHPIaxOU/w-d-xo.html) that show a tool in rhino similar to the "global matching analysis that you have, although I don't know if is already available on rhino 7 or will be on future versions.
Great video again Sky, in situations like this my standard rule of thumb is degree 3 primary Srf, degree 5 for the three Blend surfaces and degree 7 for the final tertiary Srf. Reason being is that we know the complexity goes up with every step. For what it’s worth, I don’t expect perfect curvature on that final tertiary surface. If one of your primary Srf or secondary Srf isn’t perfect, there’s no way you’ll get curvature on that final surface.
I like your approach/thought process! A big part of what I wanted to show with this series is just how hard it is to achieve G2 across and entire model - I think so many people think with Rhino since they check the "Curvature" box on some command, then what they create must be curvature. Having VSR's GMA really opened my eyes to how hard it is to achieve!
Rhino has always been a bit quirky with SurfMatch command (Multiple Match to be more precise). VSR Shape Modelling definitely can help, but it is a third party plugin and is quite expensive (has almost the same price as Rhino itself).
I had a quite similar situation for my designs and have been trying to use degenerate points: yes it is against the rules but sometimes it works.
I of course love and recommend VSR, but since it's not even for sale anymore I try to do as much of this series as possible with "stock" Rhino commands - indeed I was able to get better matching with VSR, but so few of us have it, if I was to make those commands integral to this series I think the audience would be much smaller. I'd be interested to see a situation where you found that degenerate points works better than a trimmed edge! I try to avoid them, but I'm always open to new ideas, and if it works, it works!
@@thirtysixverts Yes, the trick is to use one degenerate points and if possible to the closest to 90° angle between the edges which converge to that point (to avoid rippling surface as much as possible). Matching a curvature though is a bit tricky using degenerate point. It is somehow a 'special case' but works most of the time when you have quite flexible curves on three perpendicular planes.