My main experience with the spell is realizing just how massive your average city actually is and how finding a specific item in a city actually takes several castings of this spell. Which is, in turn, a great way to burn the resources of casters in the kind of 'intrigue' game where threats aren't found in dungeons, and targeting caster resources like this can be necessary
I really like that from a narrative perspective too; we've gotta research and narrow down where the object could be, because the fewer times I have to cast, the more spell slots I have going into the encounter
Just cast Phantom Steed, it has 100 feet of movement and can Dash. Locate Object has a duration of 10 minutes. By galloping, it can travel at 26 miles per hour, or 4.33 miles per 10 minutes. That means covering an area of approximately 2000 * 4.33 miles = 1.64 square miles per casting of Locate Object. As an example, Waterdeep is approximately 3.8 miles by 1.5 miles, or 5.7 square miles. So using Phantom Steed, you can cover an area the size of Waterdeep with Locate Object using only four castings.
Locate Object is really powerful once you start using it proactively. Reverse pickpocket a tracked object onto an NPC and follow them remotely. Drop a marble or a piece of gauze into a pipe to see where it leads. Stop using to find something mysterious and instead start using it almost like a form of scrying and you can get a lot of practical utility from it.
If you play by it's actual wording, you shouldn't ever need to nerf it. To use specific mode, you have to have seen it within 30ft. And generic mode still requires you be familiar with the type of item, and only points you to the one (1) physically closest match. So for instance, our BBEG is a bard. Assuming she doesn't have Nondetection on, technically the spell can pick up her instrument focus. But there's no chance it's going to be the only musical instrument in her entire evil lair. So if I can't use specific mode because I personally never got within 30ft, only the party martials, then all I can locate with the spell is the grand piano in the entrance, the lyre in her study, or the violin-playing orphan she has chained up to play for her amusement unless she's closer to us than all other instruments, at which point the fight has probably begun.
i use this spell as a party member locater, have someone craft a bunch of tokens/jewelry for each party member, make sure each is unique in it's own way, like maybe chip each one with a weapon differently, then have each party member carry one, so if they ever go missing you can locate object their specific token to find them, which saves you having to need the locate creature spell which is 4th level. can also have one made for the rogue to then reverse pickpocket onto marks to follow back to their hideouts.
I really like videos like this. This was by far the best explanation of how to use Locate Object that I've seen. More content about clever uses of spells and abilities please.
I’d love to see a video on simulacrum. Both the ways you can exploit it (those are fun to talk about on paper) and the ways to make it fun for the party (which is a very hard task but should be feasible)
One of my favorite uses locate object way using it to find an "unearthed diamond that can cast revivify" in a silver mine after a character with a. Let's say. Feyish disposition, won a very minor bet with the foreman in exchange for bringing home one rock I point at, that I promised wouldn't be silver. A friend that I played with Pulled a similar trick to offer the spell casting to some kobalds in order to befriend them by pointing them towards the nearest unearthed gold ore Ever since when any of us run games we have realized that outside of adventures locate object is the ultimate spell for prospectors. It's just one of those spells with huge world building implications.
The Warlock's "Whispers of the Grave" invocation i rather insane if you start collecting skulls of the dead. You can build a library of good-aligned or repentant creatures, and ask each of them 5 questions every 10 days. This can be used for many things, like supporting your research or to find out if a dead NPC trusted or mistrusted another NPC in life, allowing players to social engineer their way through an intrigue or mystery.
One other limitation: Nowhere in the description of Locate Object does it say that you can switch the target object after the spell is cast. So each casting will find one coin, or one gemstone, or one weapon. In order to use it to pinpoint all the bandits in the bandit stronghold by their weapons, you would have to use a lot of spell slots. One might argue that it always points at the nearest object of the type you are scanning for, so that it switches automatically as you move. But I think a more natural reading of the spell is that it locks onto an item at the time you cast the spell, and the rest of the ten minutes simply allow you to follow that one item as you or it moves, regardless of whether other competing items later come closer to you. Also, lead-lined bags and weapon sheaths aren't standard adventuring equipment. Unless your party is lucky enough to have a portable hole, it's going to be tough to exclude your longbow or halberd from the scan for weapons. Even if you do have a portable hole, do you really want to put all your party's weapons somewhere inaccessible while you are scouting that close to an enemy stronghold? Suppose enough people in your world have learned to use Locate Object this way so that there is a thriving market for lead-lined containers, and such containers are reasonably obtainable. In such a world, lead lining would become a standard in construction of any secure location, rendering the spell ineffective. Personally, I also agree with your suggestions that the description must be fairly specific. Going by the spell description: "the spell can locate the nearest object of a particular kind, such as a certain kind of apparel, jewelry, furniture, tool, or weapon." I take that as guidance as to the level of specificity required. So you can't search for weapons in general; you must search for "a certain kind of weapon," such as a longbow. The specificity requirement, however, conflicts with the proposal to make it a single noun. I prefer encouraging higher specificity, rewarding characters who can more accurately describe what they are seeking. I believe that you can't search for lead in general, since lead is a material, not an object. A search for a wooden box would be fine, but a search for a lead box might be problematic, since one might argue that the spell can't penetrate one side of the box to reach the other side and feel out the shape of the entire box, so a lead box would seem like a lead wall as far as the spell can discern. Another point: In my opinion, Locate Object is not Detect Magic; there is nothing in the spell to indicate that it can detect magic auras. So you can't search for a magic sword, although if you happen to know of a magic sword that has a ruby in the hilt, you could search for a sword with a ruby in the hilt.
Nope, it locates the closest one to the caster. The closest one changes, ergo the spell’s target changes. You can’t change it, because it changes automatically. If you think it doesn’t, lemme ask you this: what happens if the object with which the spell has locked onto becomes encased in lead? A. The spell doesn’t swap, and instead continues locating where the object was, which is stupid. B. The spell swaps to the next nearest valid target, in which case, this is just a roundabout way to have the spell swap targets.
Locate Object doesn’t need to “feel out the object,” it just locates it unless there’s a thickness of lead between it, and an object can’t be between itself. And “lead objects” certainly are a particular kind of object.
Actually, the DMG section on magic items describes “magical-ness” as an objective and easily observable quality. A cloak being magical is as easily ascertained as it is being made of linen or canvas. You don’t need Detect Magic in order to suss out a magic item, and you don’t need Identify in order to figure out what exactly it does, all it takes is a short rest spent in physical contact with the item, you don’t need to attune to it either.
Many spells specify (including you) after writing “you target a creature you can see within range” despite the fact that you are a creature you can see within range, that doesn’t mean that that level of specificity is needed or the norm. “A particular kind of object” is the rule, “a certain kind of weapon” is an example. “Weapons” are a particular kind of object, so it would be a valid target for Locate Object.
@@burgernthemomrailer "what happens if the object with which the spell has locked onto becomes encased in lead?" The answer is obvious: The spell loses the signal.
Excellent buneary, excellent video! Here are some considerations for Locate Object: Preparing to cast the spell will take some time. Pooling and isolating objects could be meticulous and the process could easily take 30 minutes or more. Most dungeons have wandering monsters every ~1 hour (for good reason!) Creatures and opponents are not always in motion nor always stationary. Once the players start interacting with a zone, I consider the behavior of its inhabitants and start simulating, even if roughly. The domains of powerful wizards, dragon lairs, temples, tombs and dungeons especially connected to divination magic may have false positives hidden in them to protect from just such a tactic. Vaults, expensive treasure chests, and fortified chambers of VIPs will probably have lead lining. Some things are not objects. Creatures are not objects, neither are portals, illusions, spirits, etc. Some things are more than one kind of object. It says that it can be used to find a particular kind of object. Per the wording, you must specify a type of jewelry. So you might say an earring, but it suggests you could not just say jewelry. Correspondingly, I think you could say a gold coin or a dragon (the coin from Waterdeep), but probably could not say "money" or "treasure". In the case of looking for 'x that does y', I don't think the spell allows for that. The spell locates objects, it doesn't determine what they're able to do. You could find an agriculture book, but not a book that would tell you how to grow wheat. If the specificity is not something that a person could discern at a glance, neither could the spell. That said, if your player wants to be vague, or just to tone the spell down in general, you might attach an associated DC check. Something like a (spellcasting ability) Arcana check. An object you've seen and is specific would just work. A very specific object might be a DC 12, a general object might be a DC 14-16 and a vague object might be DC16-20. To DMs: Please never change the results based on what your player searched for. I strongly recommend honesty in the prep and results. For example, if they search for gold coins, don't change the loot in the treasure box so it was all electrum instead.
Locate Object can target objects made of lead. Jewellery is a particular kind of object, what are you on about? Locate Object certainly can tell what an object does; a bottle is an object that stores liquids, and Locate Object can certainly locate a bottle. If you say it can locate a bottle but not “an object that stores liquids” despite the fact that the two describe the same things, then you’re just asking your players to invent new words which mean whatever it is they’re trying to locate.
@@burgernthemomrailer Try reading the spell description again to answer the first part! As for the second part, it requires you to be familiar with it, as stated at the very beginning of the spell. If you ask for, say, a key that opens a specific lock, but you've never found that key, then you're not familiar with it so it won't work. If you ask for a book that has information you need... again, you're not familiar! But you could locate the Almanac MagGuffinus, if you knew of the particular tome or could describe it specifically. Say you saw (within 30') someone carrying it. It's important to consider the full application of the spell, rather than cherry picking specific examples (you're familiar with bottles, from your example, so you could describe them and find a bottle.) If you're purposefully obtuse to try to gain information the spell doesn't provide, I'd fully expect a well-versed DM to ask you to be more specific, or explain the limits of the spell. It cannot act on information you don't have.
@@RaethFennec You don't need to be familiar, it just need to be a "particular kind of object." There's no limit on specificity. And yes, Locate Object can locate lead objects unless any thickness of lead is between it. An object cannot be between itself, therefore, Locate Object can find it.
@@RaethFennec You seem to be confusing the two different applications of the spell. Locate Object can EITHER locate a specific object familiar to you, OR locate the nearest object of a particular kind. The two are not related; familiarity is only required if you're attempting to locate a specific object, not a specific *kind* of object.
@@RaethFennec Looking up the dictionary definition for "kind," "a group of people or things having similar characteristics." Which means that as part of casting the spell to locate the nearest kind of object, you describe a bunch of characteristics, and the spell will find the nearest thing which checks all the boxes. "Any key that opens this lock" is a valid usage. "Book teaching me how to grow wheat" is a valid usage. It's not as if the functions which are being described are abstract. Keys open locks via mechanical action and having a specific pattern on the blade. Books store information with physical ink. Even if they are abstract, Locate Object still works.
The problem with the spell is that the area is too small. I'll never use it in a dungeon because it just ruins the fun of exploring it. I'll never use it in a city because it doesn't cover the majority of it. Also the examples that you gave for the "generic object" would be deemed too specific for my DMs.
Maybe, depends on how the DM rules it. I personally wouldn't allow it, because I use 'physical descriptions only', and cursed is not a physical description. Other DMs might though.
Zone of Truth is extremely straightforward and practically impossible to dupe. Detect thoughts detects only surface thoughts, with the deeper thoughts resisted by a save. Sure, there's a save for ZoT, but then everyone knows you're intentionally trying to lie, as opposed to a DT defense having plausible deniability.
@torinsmith9867 unless they know you are reading their mind, a creature has no reason to be duplicitous in its surface thoughts. ZoT is fairly easy to beat on the other hand. Simply refuse to talk the moment you realize it's been cast on you. Which should be basically immediately.
I’d love to see a video on simulacrum. Both the ways you can exploit it (those are fun to talk about on paper) and the ways to make it fun for the party (which is a very hard task but should be feasible)
My main experience with the spell is realizing just how massive your average city actually is and how finding a specific item in a city actually takes several castings of this spell. Which is, in turn, a great way to burn the resources of casters in the kind of 'intrigue' game where threats aren't found in dungeons, and targeting caster resources like this can be necessary
I really like that from a narrative perspective too; we've gotta research and narrow down where the object could be, because the fewer times I have to cast, the more spell slots I have going into the encounter
Just cast Phantom Steed, it has 100 feet of movement and can Dash. Locate Object has a duration of 10 minutes. By galloping, it can travel at 26 miles per hour, or 4.33 miles per 10 minutes. That means covering an area of approximately 2000 * 4.33 miles = 1.64 square miles per casting of Locate Object.
As an example, Waterdeep is approximately 3.8 miles by 1.5 miles, or 5.7 square miles. So using Phantom Steed, you can cover an area the size of Waterdeep with Locate Object using only four castings.
Locate Object is really powerful once you start using it proactively. Reverse pickpocket a tracked object onto an NPC and follow them remotely. Drop a marble or a piece of gauze into a pipe to see where it leads.
Stop using to find something mysterious and instead start using it almost like a form of scrying and you can get a lot of practical utility from it.
If you play by it's actual wording, you shouldn't ever need to nerf it.
To use specific mode, you have to have seen it within 30ft.
And generic mode still requires you be familiar with the type of item, and only points you to the one (1) physically closest match.
So for instance, our BBEG is a bard. Assuming she doesn't have Nondetection on, technically the spell can pick up her instrument focus. But there's no chance it's going to be the only musical instrument in her entire evil lair. So if I can't use specific mode because I personally never got within 30ft, only the party martials, then all I can locate with the spell is the grand piano in the entrance, the lyre in her study, or the violin-playing orphan she has chained up to play for her amusement unless she's closer to us than all other instruments, at which point the fight has probably begun.
I can't help but feel that Twig found this spell intriguing at first, because of its spell component - a forked twig!
I'll be waiting for a Witch Bolt video. (A twig from a tree that has been struck by lightning)
i use this spell as a party member locater, have someone craft a bunch of tokens/jewelry for each party member, make sure each is unique in it's own way, like maybe chip each one with a weapon differently, then have each party member carry one, so if they ever go missing you can locate object their specific token to find them, which saves you having to need the locate creature spell which is 4th level.
can also have one made for the rogue to then reverse pickpocket onto marks to follow back to their hideouts.
I really like videos like this. This was by far the best explanation of how to use Locate Object that I've seen. More content about clever uses of spells and abilities please.
this spell actually doesn't have any material cost when the_twig is casting it
lol
Good Buneary.
In other news I got into Fabula Ultima.
I’d love to see a video on simulacrum. Both the ways you can exploit it (those are fun to talk about on paper) and the ways to make it fun for the party (which is a very hard task but should be feasible)
One of my favorite uses locate object way using it to find an "unearthed diamond that can cast revivify" in a silver mine after a character with a. Let's say. Feyish disposition, won a very minor bet with the foreman in exchange for bringing home one rock I point at, that I promised wouldn't be silver.
A friend that I played with Pulled a similar trick to offer the spell casting to some kobalds in order to befriend them by pointing them towards the nearest unearthed gold ore
Ever since when any of us run games we have realized that outside of adventures locate object is the ultimate spell for prospectors. It's just one of those spells with huge world building implications.
These things Maiq says, I do not know if I can trust. :P
The Warlock's "Whispers of the Grave" invocation i rather insane if you start collecting skulls of the dead.
You can build a library of good-aligned or repentant creatures, and ask each of them 5 questions every 10 days.
This can be used for many things, like supporting your research or to find out if a dead NPC trusted or mistrusted another NPC in life, allowing players to social engineer their way through an intrigue or mystery.
One other limitation: Nowhere in the description of Locate Object does it say that you can switch the target object after the spell is cast. So each casting will find one coin, or one gemstone, or one weapon. In order to use it to pinpoint all the bandits in the bandit stronghold by their weapons, you would have to use a lot of spell slots. One might argue that it always points at the nearest object of the type you are scanning for, so that it switches automatically as you move. But I think a more natural reading of the spell is that it locks onto an item at the time you cast the spell, and the rest of the ten minutes simply allow you to follow that one item as you or it moves, regardless of whether other competing items later come closer to you.
Also, lead-lined bags and weapon sheaths aren't standard adventuring equipment. Unless your party is lucky enough to have a portable hole, it's going to be tough to exclude your longbow or halberd from the scan for weapons. Even if you do have a portable hole, do you really want to put all your party's weapons somewhere inaccessible while you are scouting that close to an enemy stronghold?
Suppose enough people in your world have learned to use Locate Object this way so that there is a thriving market for lead-lined containers, and such containers are reasonably obtainable. In such a world, lead lining would become a standard in construction of any secure location, rendering the spell ineffective.
Personally, I also agree with your suggestions that the description must be fairly specific. Going by the spell description: "the spell can locate the nearest object of a particular kind, such as a certain kind of apparel, jewelry, furniture, tool, or weapon." I take that as guidance as to the level of specificity required. So you can't search for weapons in general; you must search for "a certain kind of weapon," such as a longbow. The specificity requirement, however, conflicts with the proposal to make it a single noun. I prefer encouraging higher specificity, rewarding characters who can more accurately describe what they are seeking.
I believe that you can't search for lead in general, since lead is a material, not an object. A search for a wooden box would be fine, but a search for a lead box might be problematic, since one might argue that the spell can't penetrate one side of the box to reach the other side and feel out the shape of the entire box, so a lead box would seem like a lead wall as far as the spell can discern.
Another point: In my opinion, Locate Object is not Detect Magic; there is nothing in the spell to indicate that it can detect magic auras. So you can't search for a magic sword, although if you happen to know of a magic sword that has a ruby in the hilt, you could search for a sword with a ruby in the hilt.
Nope, it locates the closest one to the caster. The closest one changes, ergo the spell’s target changes. You can’t change it, because it changes automatically.
If you think it doesn’t, lemme ask you this: what happens if the object with which the spell has locked onto becomes encased in lead?
A. The spell doesn’t swap, and instead continues locating where the object was, which is stupid.
B. The spell swaps to the next nearest valid target, in which case, this is just a roundabout way to have the spell swap targets.
Locate Object doesn’t need to “feel out the object,” it just locates it unless there’s a thickness of lead between it, and an object can’t be between itself. And “lead objects” certainly are a particular kind of object.
Actually, the DMG section on magic items describes “magical-ness” as an objective and easily observable quality. A cloak being magical is as easily ascertained as it is being made of linen or canvas. You don’t need Detect Magic in order to suss out a magic item, and you don’t need Identify in order to figure out what exactly it does, all it takes is a short rest spent in physical contact with the item, you don’t need to attune to it either.
Many spells specify (including you) after writing “you target a creature you can see within range” despite the fact that you are a creature you can see within range, that doesn’t mean that that level of specificity is needed or the norm. “A particular kind of object” is the rule, “a certain kind of weapon” is an example. “Weapons” are a particular kind of object, so it would be a valid target for Locate Object.
@@burgernthemomrailer "what happens if the object with which the spell has locked onto becomes encased in lead?"
The answer is obvious: The spell loses the signal.
Excellent buneary, excellent video!
Here are some considerations for Locate Object:
Preparing to cast the spell will take some time. Pooling and isolating objects could be meticulous and the process could easily take 30 minutes or more. Most dungeons have wandering monsters every ~1 hour (for good reason!)
Creatures and opponents are not always in motion nor always stationary. Once the players start interacting with a zone, I consider the behavior of its inhabitants and start simulating, even if roughly.
The domains of powerful wizards, dragon lairs, temples, tombs and dungeons especially connected to divination magic may have false positives hidden in them to protect from just such a tactic.
Vaults, expensive treasure chests, and fortified chambers of VIPs will probably have lead lining.
Some things are not objects. Creatures are not objects, neither are portals, illusions, spirits, etc. Some things are more than one kind of object.
It says that it can be used to find a particular kind of object. Per the wording, you must specify a type of jewelry. So you might say an earring, but it suggests you could not just say jewelry. Correspondingly, I think you could say a gold coin or a dragon (the coin from Waterdeep), but probably could not say "money" or "treasure".
In the case of looking for 'x that does y', I don't think the spell allows for that. The spell locates objects, it doesn't determine what they're able to do. You could find an agriculture book, but not a book that would tell you how to grow wheat. If the specificity is not something that a person could discern at a glance, neither could the spell.
That said, if your player wants to be vague, or just to tone the spell down in general, you might attach an associated DC check. Something like a (spellcasting ability) Arcana check. An object you've seen and is specific would just work. A very specific object might be a DC 12, a general object might be a DC 14-16 and a vague object might be DC16-20.
To DMs: Please never change the results based on what your player searched for. I strongly recommend honesty in the prep and results. For example, if they search for gold coins, don't change the loot in the treasure box so it was all electrum instead.
Locate Object can target objects made of lead.
Jewellery is a particular kind of object, what are you on about?
Locate Object certainly can tell what an object does; a bottle is an object that stores liquids, and Locate Object can certainly locate a bottle. If you say it can locate a bottle but not “an object that stores liquids” despite the fact that the two describe the same things, then you’re just asking your players to invent new words which mean whatever it is they’re trying to locate.
@@burgernthemomrailer Try reading the spell description again to answer the first part! As for the second part, it requires you to be familiar with it, as stated at the very beginning of the spell. If you ask for, say, a key that opens a specific lock, but you've never found that key, then you're not familiar with it so it won't work. If you ask for a book that has information you need... again, you're not familiar! But you could locate the Almanac MagGuffinus, if you knew of the particular tome or could describe it specifically. Say you saw (within 30') someone carrying it.
It's important to consider the full application of the spell, rather than cherry picking specific examples (you're familiar with bottles, from your example, so you could describe them and find a bottle.) If you're purposefully obtuse to try to gain information the spell doesn't provide, I'd fully expect a well-versed DM to ask you to be more specific, or explain the limits of the spell. It cannot act on information you don't have.
@@RaethFennec You don't need to be familiar, it just need to be a "particular kind of object." There's no limit on specificity.
And yes, Locate Object can locate lead objects unless any thickness of lead is between it. An object cannot be between itself, therefore, Locate Object can find it.
@@RaethFennec You seem to be confusing the two different applications of the spell.
Locate Object can EITHER locate a specific object familiar to you, OR locate the nearest object of a particular kind.
The two are not related; familiarity is only required if you're attempting to locate a specific object, not a specific *kind* of object.
@@RaethFennec Looking up the dictionary definition for "kind," "a group of people or things having similar characteristics."
Which means that as part of casting the spell to locate the nearest kind of object, you describe a bunch of characteristics, and the spell will find the nearest thing which checks all the boxes.
"Any key that opens this lock" is a valid usage.
"Book teaching me how to grow wheat" is a valid usage.
It's not as if the functions which are being described are abstract. Keys open locks via mechanical action and having a specific pattern on the blade. Books store information with physical ink. Even if they are abstract, Locate Object still works.
I having the caster get familiar with some pebbles than have the rogue put them in people's pockets and then track where they go.
The problem with the spell is that the area is too small.
I'll never use it in a dungeon because it just ruins the fun of exploring it.
I'll never use it in a city because it doesn't cover the majority of it.
Also the examples that you gave for the "generic object" would be deemed too specific for my DMs.
Idk but I THINK you could use it to figure out it a magic item is cursed.
Maybe, depends on how the DM rules it. I personally wouldn't allow it, because I use 'physical descriptions only', and cursed is not a physical description. Other DMs might though.
Wait he bans zone of truth but not detect thoughts?
Zone of Truth is extremely straightforward and practically impossible to dupe. Detect thoughts detects only surface thoughts, with the deeper thoughts resisted by a save. Sure, there's a save for ZoT, but then everyone knows you're intentionally trying to lie, as opposed to a DT defense having plausible deniability.
@torinsmith9867 unless they know you are reading their mind, a creature has no reason to be duplicitous in its surface thoughts.
ZoT is fairly easy to beat on the other hand. Simply refuse to talk the moment you realize it's been cast on you. Which should be basically immediately.
Life Cleric and Goodberry interaction is just plain wrong. No matter what insanity Jeremy Crawford claims.
Morally? Maybe. Rules-wise? No.
I’d love to see a video on simulacrum. Both the ways you can exploit it (those are fun to talk about on paper) and the ways to make it fun for the party (which is a very hard task but should be feasible)