Nineteen years into democracy the average white household has 6 times more income than a black household. Is it time for an economic rethink? ow.ly/jQieL
I am so happy for SA. I am a Cameroonian and have had the privilege to study at some of your top universities and am glad to see how South Africans are having difficult discussions and trying to heal their country. It makes me realize that growth and healing are painfully slow processes, but SA is on that healing journey. My country Cameroon is also in a civil war situation and I think we could start healing in Cameroon and moving forward if we started having frank discussions like these in Cameroon as well.
The ANC has failed to educate the youth of South Africa and continues to do so. Rather then train teachers and raise the standard of education the ANC reduces the standard to 28%and bows to SADTU pressures.
The people who actually failed to educate us is the previous government(the National Party) because it is during it's era that the current teachers were trained during the Bantu education.
Im from the Republic of Mauritius and seeing this debate makes me feel that South African Nation are missing one of the greatest opportunity. The reality is you cannot have a sound economy if you go on a racist rant, racism is one thing and economic development is a completely different aspect. If South Africa has to remodel its economy, it has to adopt a single rule, and that rule is UNION & EDUCATION. You do not fight against each others because of your past or the colour of your skin!.
It's a nice idea but it fails practically. That analogy fails to include the fact that you must also supply the tools for the man to employ those skills. The teacher has the best lures, rods, boats, nets and technology to ensure success. The man he teaches to fish gets an does not have access to any of that so you end with a man still asking for fish in the end.
@@terranark there's a logical fallacy in your response because the point remains the same if you want to uplift any society you have to heavily invest in its education and skills development and this extends to providing tools and infrastructure by government and private enterprises. A transformation of this magnitude can take decades but history speaks for itself. How is it that countries like Japan or even Germany that were crushed after world war 2 are now leading economically? It took them a period of 20-30 years to do it... All societies that have invested heavily in education, as well as creating a cohesive culture of inclusion and solidarity and hard work tend to thrive and do better than those caught in class/race politics that go nowhere and lead to nothing except the enrichment of the ruling class. No wonder the government invests so much energy trying to divide people and works hard to remind them of why they should be apart instead of why they should stay together. The answer is always about power and control through class divisions...divide and conquer. Consider for a moment how much more successful this country could be if the people in it worked as hard together instead of against each other. If people actually listened to the lesson Nelson Mandela was teaching we would be farther down the road to prosperity. Consider what has happened in the past 20+ years and you will see it was a combination of government corruption and looting and a series of race division politics that has led us here. And now that China essentially owns the ANC financially this country is taking a turn towards being in debt to China for decades to come. This doesn't even begin to cover the communist aspirations of the ANC because despite the last 80 years and the inevitable fall of communism and its failure and devastating human rights violations, the ANC and EFF and SACP believe it will work for South Africa. Of course communism has never existed in any kind of pure form so it only really serves the rulers and never the people...well except maybe those politically connected. South Africa is a sad story that can be likened to a child that was beaten and abused growing up and now as an adult it has failed to learn the lessons of the past and is beating it's children. A new generation of youngsters that didn't know Apartheid but will know poverty and suffering for decades to come because their "comrades" sold them out for power and self enrichment.
There is a simple solution to South Africa’s problems. If the gap is to be closed between races, the following needs to be done: 1) Invest more into education: Provide resources to unprivileged schools, make sure the teachers in those schools are well trained and the necessary equipment and materials are available. By providing a better quality of education to the individual learner, that student will have the ability to uplift his/her family. 2)Make sure the future of young underprivileged South Africans are secure. So this would mean, for them to grow and achieve, they need a stable environment. Their parents/caregivers need a stable income to provide for them, this would mean providing job opportunities for unskilled/semi-skilled people. Due to the past their parents wouldn’t have had the opportunity to learn valuable skills. 3) The government should provide bursaries and get companies to provide bursaries for high achievers. Lets face it, a tertiary education is expensive. Those students would then go through university/college and graduate with a degree/diploma. 4) These learners can then enter the work force, and add value to companies. The money they would earn would then go to uplifting their family and then its a chain reaction. Poverty will go down, we wont have a skills shortage, the economy will strengthen, and the gap will get smaller until it will cease to exist ....However this all relies on having responsible, educated and moral leaders....and that is another issue that needs to be dealt with
Washington Ngcobazi(37:35) is totally right, what a smart lad. There is no other logical way of doing it if there is I am willing to know. He put it soshort sweetly. Like the quote I am paraphrasing that I heard don't know who from but if you give a man a fish you feed him for a day and if you teach them how to fish you feed him for a lifetime.
please misunderstood me not: I like the BEE principle / idea but the implementation process of it, surely discourages entrepreneurs in a sense that, in order to win BEE Contract, many times its who you know and many young entrepreneurs knows no one but just smart guys wanting to do best...
i agree with you when you say the BEE implementation is not efficient but i still don get the' entrepreneurship discouraging' part.please watch the space on the new version BBBEE, it seems much promising.
What products do SA sell to the rest of the world? What skills do your people have to to build infrastructure, housing and who provides education? The GDP is 3.5 billion while in Canada ( a similar population) is 1.65 trillion . All taxable to provide law and order ,healthcare. fire protection ,ETC. You cannot build an economy while 10 percent of the people pay 93 percent of the taxes ! You're crippling your taxpayers.
My advice to Black people allover the country is: whatever you do, be it a small menial job, career employment, self-employment, do it to your damndest best, it may be the only hope you have. Never place hope largely on politicians but rather yourself, your ability, your competence(s). Impossible is nothing !
I guarantee you, if people truly adopted such a mentality, things would change in a heartbeat, in a way that would be incomprehensible. They would start a model for others to follow. (It's something that exists within the mind, --something NO govt can create.) It all starts with true independence (of the individual person, that is), and so much of what leftist political ideology in particular preaches/encourages people to accept, as if it was really the most beneficial to society at large, is in direct contrast to this.
As an African American I don't see the South African economy as racist. I do however see that the country has a unique set of economic problems. The main problem is that apartheid left the majority group of the country (blacks) with little to no skills to compete and win in a capitalist economy. It would be better to take a bottom up approach to help people where they are in means of encouraging entrepreneurship and changing land ownership rights so that an individual or groups would have the benefit of owning and using the land as they see fit. Skills training and infrastructure development that link all of the country would help also. Another big problem is that change takes time. The country spent over 350 years going down the wrong path. 20 years is hardly enough time to turn the whole ship around.
Huh? Then you are obviously very naive, m ignorant N You also donot have ANY historical knowledge of SA. Please read a book NOT written by your historical enemy/oppressor.
An interesting exchange takes place beginning at 10:52, with Mr. Mabasa and Mr. Herman and then Minister Gigaba after him. Mambasa and Herman essentially say the same thing: that economic apartheid still continues. When Mabasa says it, and infers whites are still "winning" he is applauded roundly. When Mr. Herman says the same thing in the context of it continuing even in "black economic empowerment", he is greeted with disbelief and incredulity and even a hint of ridicule by the host. The minister then ridicules Herman's argument merely by pointing back to apartheid, and saying it's better now because the "majority are empowered" - even though the POINT OF THIS WHOLE DEBATE centers around the fact that the MAJORITY AREN'T empowered. And that's a solid refutation? For what? This illustrates how much Marxists apply race victimhood to explain away economic failure on their part. The woman at 13:20 says the people don't want these economic excuses anymore. Maybe one day, she and the others like her will figure out that the "economics is racist" argument is just clap trap. They need to figure out that economics works on laws that are immutable and absolute. It's not magic. People must produce wealth. How the government might distribute tax revenues across society is another thing. But a nation must produce wealth to defeat poverty - not just sit around complaining about it or justifying it against the past. But, Marxism always conflates social equality to being better, no matter what economic failures they produce and perpetuate. As if to say the people should be glad they have social equality in their continuing poverty.
I saw all of that and thought the same. It was pretty embarrassing. I live in Britain, and if there is a sense of respect in not attacking minorities just for being minorities that the South Africa system has failed to impart. Anyone can be criticised for what they say, but a lot of the jeers and cheers where apportioned solely on the skin colour of the people delivering them. It was pretty sad, really.
When the government on charge of system, blames the system it’s created! On the time it takes, apparently it didn’t all that long for those connected to ANC to become billionaires
When I was young I would have agreed with the 'socialists', and now in mid-life I agree with the 'capitalists'. The difference? I had to spend the last 25 years working my ass off (no family, girls, fun - just work..). Now I'm in a position where I can ease off, and I feel very resentful when poeple dismiss my sacrifice as racism (I am white btw), while they enjoy beer and girls and not having to crawl for a boss and smile at the same time. I think the system needs to change, in that the 40% of everything I earn goes to the government (tax) - should be used for all South Africans, not the big boss politicians who love there fancy cars and bling designer suits. Blaming whites in South Africa is a weak excuse by idealists who've probably never given anyone a job, or anything except peddled second-hand ideas of entitlement because they were born black. Yes, the system sucks. Work sucks. Welcome to the world - welcome to life. Have another beer and get on with it.
The best point & the truest is the woman that said Apartheid did not die because of moral outrage but because it was no longer profitable.I think that is a very profound statement & it is seen across the globe-nothing is abandoned or instituted on moral grounds unfortunately-but on the checks & balances of profitability.To continue with a model of a system that was determined to no longer be profitable is a recipe for failure.
Africans should stop talking about lack of employment and pay attention to intrapreneurship, employment can not liberate our people, it keeps us dependant...
the gentlemen from Financial Sector all he cares about is global financial status, he probably doesn't even comprehend the life style in the Townships, Rural Areas...But the minister is absolutely the wrong person in his post
I come from a poor to middle class white family, my mom worked 6 days a week from 8am to 8pm granted I had better opportunity than black South Africans, however things did not just fall into my lap I trained as a chef and worked 70 hrs a week I earned far more than my black counterparts, because of white privilege, however looking at it from a global stand point my salary was the same as international standards, the truth is business took advantage of apartheid, and the Afrikaner looked after their own as any group anywhere in the world would, taking from the whites to improve black society, is not going to change anything, education and job creation is the answer and most important is that the salary reflects the work performed as so many get paid well for work that is not done, black empowerment has been in many cases just a smoke screen with the people given the position not being able to perform the job correctly which was the fault of inferior education in the black society, hence better education not lower standard of education to just pump out people with certificates that don't meet international criteria, there is a conception that all whites live well which in reality like any society there is really only a small segment it is not about taking from them but uplifting the condition of the poor to that level which is middle class, it is 25 years since the end of apartheid and the violence in the society has spiraled out of control the whites can't be blamed for that society both black and white if south africans want a decent future needs to end this destructive culture that is destroying the country. the law needs to be respected and in turn those in position law enforcement need to be honorable and dedicated and rewarded for their efforts, take a lesson from Australia a gun free society and 99.9% of the population respect the law, and the reformed criminals in the society is extremely high the main reason respect and support structure, the difference in the poor vs wealthy is far better than south africa, that does not mean that south africa can't achieve the same it is about not taking from those who have but society as a whole working together to raise those who are in poverty out of it, it seems such a hopeless dream I really hope it comes about after all it is not about having more than someone else but about wishing and helping those who have less to have what you enjoy, ultimately we are all one anyway just a part of one consciousness and wouldn't one want to help oneself. children of South Africa learn learn learn and care care care
Black, White, Indian,Coloured needs to stop leave the past in the past we are now in a democracy. We are South Africans let's work in unity .We have the best resources in the world. We are paying to much attention on meetings and debates talk talk and no work on the ground. As long as there is no forgiveness there will be no healing or progress. Anger ,hate, bitterness, arrogance, riots, greed, corruption ANC, racism, etc. are the pillars of our economy.
It is appalling to see white privilege corporates and elites not apologizing for their contribution and selfishness to black people's poverty as they are still benefiting to date. When Minister Gigaba spoke about changing the system, he meant, when systems change drastically, it threatens the livelihood of white businesses particularly investors. Hence it becomes challenging for government to initiate matters like land repatriation without compensation, it is White investors that has the tendency of threatening to take their investments/businesses to other countries. They always use the narrative of South Africa becoming Zimbabwe. Ramaphosa needs to do the right thing and distribute the land accordingly to black people and farmers who are deserving. He should stop listening to ignorant threats if he wants to see the country moving forward.
Africa should stop complain it’s been so many years , it’s enough, poverty it’s not life style, poverty it’s your mind set , Africans should change they mind set
WE MUST LEARN SKILLS...ON THE JOB TRAINING PROGRAM AND GIVEN A CERTIFICATION PAPERS...PROOF OF EDUCATION AND TRAINING AND EXPERIENCES....OF THAT WORK..
the skills,education etc have even a chance at succeeding.There are many times that a group comes out of repression only to have to pay the price of that repression for generations to come.It is a very sad situation but a very real one.Taking generations to see actual improvement is not an unheard of situation,sadly.Many times those that have struggled for freedom & equality are not the ones that enjoy it's benefits.
A person is never entitled to offer an apology on behalf of someone else. One cannot apologize on behalf of one's ancestors, without their explicit permission. Likewise one cannot accept (or reject) an apology on behalf of one's ancestors, without their explicit permission.
I wish desperately for a better future for black South Africans, but they have the vote and as long as they vote ANC they will suffer. Vote for DA, there is a party that has education and economic growth as priorities.
You can give a man a fish and feed him for a day. You can teach a man how to fish and feed him for life. Many bitter Black folks just want the fish. They don't want to learn how to fish because that means they would have to get the fish themselves. This is true for Black in the US and it appears to be true in SA. However, I am noticing the young South Africans in the audience not wanting the White man's or the ANC's fish and prefer to learn how to fish instead. The same can be said for many young Blacks in the US. This is promising.
No. I don't care what you think of me. Just don't use my comment to express your bigotry. I don't care if you are a bigot. Just don't bring me along with you.
LOL, I just posted that same thought. Best is at 19:06 that gentleman suggests that government do everything to facilitate an environment wherein business can flourish, exactly what Trump did and now they are seeing the lowest minority unemployment ever recorded. Capitalism has lifted millions out of poverty every year, socialism still is only a beautiful argument that ruins every country that has attempted it.
Deon Cockrell China has shown that a mixed state led-socialist capitalist system actually achieves far more than America’s style of capitalism that produces a 1% that has an increasing percentage of wealth. It’s America’s failure with its style of capitalism that partially led to the rise of trump in the first place. The so called low numbers of black/minority unemployment under Trump is a farce. It was driven by tax cuts, that still need to be paid for, that businesses used to pay themselves more dividends and create jobs that don’t pay a living wage of health care. American style capitalism is often horrible to those who are at the very bottom of society
Nineteen years into democracy and as a nation we have not emanicipated ourselves from the economic apartheid ...social equality exists on paper but have we gone this far to imprison ourselves in the walls of economic apartheid...let us stop point fingers at each other and begin by cleaning the minds of those entrusted to provide the basic services of each and every individual living in South Africa...I do not care if you are Green , Navy , Pink, Coloured, Black , White ....#the economy that I do not belong in# lets go back to the drawing board and struggle for economic justice....the rich will get richer the poor will be poorer its time for you and to do our part# Tata Mandela outshined in his role i see no reason what will stop you and I. lets unite and fight economic apartheid.
I wonder about their Agriculture. Do they have local farms? Is the country dependent on imports for nourishment, having to travel distances to purchase food or do they have farmers near by that they can trade with? You can't be educated if you're thinking about your next meal. Same with Health. No doubt Quality Education is the key. But there must also be support for entrepreneurship. I also like how they keep mentioning bullshit jobs as progress. They pay like shit.
Greetings what would the africa continent look like if the European diden went there to the African continent or the European broth a curse to the continent what your tauths
Man, that white dude in the glasses is rude and dismissive. He thinks the anger of the majority is because they don't have a BMWs, many girlfriends and can take trips.
how is it that societies with black oppression seem to run smoothly, but when it comes to any nation dealing with black equality every thing becomes very difficult. In America raping, killing steeling and enslaving, and becoming rich off of black slavery was done with ease, but black equality and reparations every thing is just so difficult.
Waiting + Handouts . That indeed is the coremistake of Black African Economic Thinking. Wealth is not build by waiting nor by redistributing the recources of the white minority. That mentality of stealing what is there destroyed all African Countries after the colonies ended and lead to war and poverty. Mandela even knew that. Take a look at eastern Asia. They started with farming communities now they sell smartphones. Africans want the jobs of the whites rather than create own companies and jobs. 50 mio people want the jobs of 4 mio with the same salery. Couldn t work. BEE is imploding itself. Cuba bancrupt, massive poverty Venezuela bancrupt also massive poverty Norway tiny population and massive Oil, inteligent reinvestment of recources Australia doesn t even fit your point my lady.
Typical clueless white response to social grievances of black peoples. That’s over simplified and wrong comparison. The relationship European has with Africans is vastly different to what they had with Asians and still having. To understand this, one has to look at their social theories. The way they classified groups and their views of each groups base on classifications coincided with their attitude towards those groups. Africans and Africa where seen as capital and treated as such. Thus, the system put in a place to continue exploitation of Africans. I think resolving this issues is beneficial for white as well as the blacks. The issues don’t resolve themselves, the are resolved by those who put them in the first place otherwise revolution is inevitable.
Growing inequality is worldwide. I think they must urgently travel to a lot of countries even in the west the gap between rich and poor is growing fast. Everywhere the middle clsasv will disappear.
There is always a small print when it comes to these agreements. We give you freedom but on certain conditions, that's the West for you. Africa must fight for it's land, resources and get away with Capitalism and privatisation of certain sectors eg banks, telecoms, land and natural resources.
This country needs those guys that we use to see in movies having plugged bombs in certain governmental places and then demand large amounts of money which they use to perform the responsibilities which the government doesn't take care of.
The host kept asking the wrong question. The question should be, is the economic racism? Racist and racism are two different entities but link together.
can we stop having talks and adapt some reform economically to salvage the purity of the money we work for in America before more people are hurt behind the love and lack there-of for money
Every person has the right to be payed enough money to feed his family and educated there children and have safe place to live ,for a day worked no matter what colour your skin is or your religious beliefs. Till all our government pass laws that all people who work will be payed a wage that a person can trully live on an support his family for a honest days work.
At what point were Africans not in poverty? At what point were blacks not oppressed? Slavery in Africa remains to this day with most slaves being owned by other blacks... White colonialists lifted people from poverty, created infrastructure, brought modern medicine, education, and technology and gave Africans the ability to actually make a living. If you look at the period before apartheid to after they left, life expectancy rose by like 20+ years
I'm Black and have been considering moving to South Africa. And to be honest this debate has completely depressed me. If 2,9% of Black People have post High School Educations, how are they going to run companies? How are they going to build businesses? How are they going to create the jobs that black Africans need? Genuinely I'm interested in coming, starting a business and building a life, but if South Africa is going to start to look like Zimbabwe where the person who gets the job isn't the best person for the job, but the Blackest one, how does that help me? I'll win a competition of African-ness against anyone, but if China shows anything, it shows that only education leads to empowerment. You're blaming the whites (who should recognise their privileged under Apartheid, and in global terms are even now) instead of the real culprits, the Zuma ANC. If Black people were educated and white people still owned everything I'd object. BEE should offer seed capital and tax exemption to Blacks starting businesses, it should offer free University Education to anyone from a poor family. But until there is an educated Black population who are capable of doing the White dominated jobs, how can you complain that no Blacks are doing them? Get out in the streets, South Africa and protest peacefully for one thing and one thing only: EDUCATION. If when you are educated, you still cannot find work, then you have to question the privilege.
I'm not inferior to anyone -- but I have had the benefit of a good education. I *wasn't* starved of education for my entire life before wrestling back my freedom and finding myself in charge of a country. The problems are understandable. But the fact is that until the education problem is dealt with, there is no hope of improvement. The criminality and theft that is emblematic of South African governance is typical of a country where very few people are well educated enough to be considered for government - and a party is so revered for one great action that they are immune from rational analysis. The problem isn't race, it's education pure and simple.
I wouldn't head for SA, it has potential but they cant sort them self's out. Education Is needed and apparently in this same show they made cuts to education. just wow.
It is even worse than that. The education system is being degraded. Today you only need 30% to pass a class. Bringing the whole country down to the lowest level of stupidity is not going to solve anything. The only way all the blacks will be happy is under a communist regime. That way everyone in the country can be starving and poor equally and the few greedy politicians can maintain their lavish lifestyle.
By "deracialising" the economy, it sure sounds like they mean reracialising the economy. How about we start talking about the elite and the super-elite when we're discussing wealth, rather than resorting to the same old race based "inequality" politics which have gotten nowhere? How about we talk about the employed and fulltime workers vs the unemployable living on benefits payed for by the working? Let's get real here. If these speakers want to blame apartheid, then they should be specific about what causes of apartheid they're referring to, rather than using it like this scary word that was purely evil. Let's educate the people objectively about what apartheid was, and what its actual effects were (and the all the population groups) - rather than knee-jerk responses that falsely make out the white population to be out to get the black people at every opportunity. It's become merely a buzzword that allows the ruling party to try and escape responsibility at every opportunity the are taken to task. And listeners are actually buying it.
Yes the is job opportunities but how much do those jobs pay because a lot of people work for transport and debts they cant save money and the cost of food is rising so hight as if we all can afford it living the pore no share of a decent life style. so dont just talk about jobs but talk about good paying jobs
will we ever be away from the use of the words "White people" and "Black people". There is no way we are to move forward if we are still to refer to one another as "white people" and "black people". People are people and the only way for you to get out of your current poverty situation u have to move. Do something for yourself because complaining about how the government is failing you and how apartheid damaged people you are never going to leave the poverty house. most if not all rich people have had to do it for themselves; exception being given to those who inherited.
+edgar daveyton still, the the structural mechanism of inequality have to change. you can't just brush off and close the eyes hoping that things will be better. people have the right and the obligation to question the prevailing unjust system that keeps poor more poorer and the rich more richer
Is the problem the system or is it that they can't and/or don't know how to use the infrastructures and the structural directives under their command? I don't think given the black the lands the whites now own will change their conditions. Sure it might make them eat better for a year or so, but I think by the second year South Africa will be a third world disaster. So I think it's hard to call this one out. Although I want to say the government is smart to not go the Zimbabwe's way, I think they're too corrupt to believe they'll come to a fair conclusion.
we need space as black people live our african lives, i took a plane from Jhb to cpt and as i was up there i realised that we as south african blacks have been crooked the land, we need land to build our private rich schools,land to build our cities, land to build our big houses. we are now packed at one township a million of us,with dysfunctional cities. come on even if the government makes a difference it wont be visible because we are plenty in one area.
Building RDP IS like giving a poor person R50 of his money when he supposed to be getting R500,000 yes he wont say no but that doesn't make you an angel ANC has done a lot but it always wait for the problem to accelerate and do something about it when people sim to be fuming angry when they where supposed to have done the job in time they never meet the dateline and want us to acknowledge what they done.
I do not understand this please with due respect can someone please explain to me? How can white people (White South Africans) be racist in Africa? are they forgeting that South Africa is in Africa? In Europe white their tell black people to go back to Africa, but thier in South Africa. I really do not understand. pls pls pls someone explain this to me. I am really confused.
Is there still Apartheid? Has it not ended? Also, would it be any less racist for black Africans to tell white Africans to 'go back to Europe' than it would be for white Europeans to tell black Europeans to 'go back to Africa?' But really though, are there really that many white Europeans saying such things to black people in their countries?
51MontyPython First blacks CANNOT be racist. Second the white population settled there against the will of the Native people, oppressed them, stole their land and wealth, killed them for centuries. They DO NOT have a claim to any land or even a "right" to be there. If you want to go that route.
kleymannie I wouldn't argue that the things you mentioned didn't happen, except that there is one part of what you said that I would question, and another I _would_ argue against adamantly (though not "violently";) and completely. 1) _Who_ is "they"? ...and 2) Yes blacks can be racist.
51MontyPython You know exactly whom I am speaking about. Dont play dumb. Blacks cannot be racist. There is only one system of racism that exists that is White Supremacy.
Nelson Mandela was a great man (truly). but in a honest assessment he sold out his people. he did not empowered them economically.
They need to work ( am black by the way)
He did all this stupid forgiveness didn't work.
He did that so that the peace process may come to pass then he said the jeany continues which means this is a current battle
@@restinpeaceholowka2555 work for pinutes
The biggest problem here is that there is also a gap in the understanding of what it takes to transform and develop a country.
I really wish we had these kind of honest roundtable discussions in the US.
don't wish for more that anyone can handle ....................
Please it's needed
I am so happy for SA. I am a Cameroonian and have had the privilege to study at some of your top universities and am glad to see how South Africans are having difficult discussions and trying to heal their country. It makes me realize that growth and healing are painfully slow processes, but SA is on that healing journey. My country Cameroon is also in a civil war situation and I think we could start healing in Cameroon and moving forward if we started having frank discussions like these in Cameroon as well.
The look on Minister Gigaba's face when the people that voted for the ANC, are grilling them.... priceless
The ANC has failed to educate the youth of South Africa and continues to do so. Rather then train teachers and raise the standard of education the ANC reduces the standard to 28%and bows to SADTU pressures.
The people who actually failed to educate us is the previous government(the National Party) because it is during it's era that the current teachers were trained during the Bantu education.
Thank you sir! I rest my case
THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR SHARING THIS VIDEO...
Im from the Republic of Mauritius and seeing this debate makes me feel that South African Nation are missing one of the greatest opportunity. The reality is you cannot have a sound economy if you go on a racist rant, racism is one thing and economic development is a completely different aspect. If South Africa has to remodel its economy, it has to adopt a single rule, and that rule is UNION & EDUCATION. You do not fight against each others because of your past or the colour of your skin!.
From Mauritius? That is the "thought" one would expect from you!!
Best comment in the debate comes from the gentleman at 37:34 - TEACH A MAN TO FISH WILL ALWAYS BE BETTER THAN GIVE A MAN A FISH TO FEED HIM FOR A DAY.
It's a nice idea but it fails practically. That analogy fails to include the fact that you must also supply the tools for the man to employ those skills. The teacher has the best lures, rods, boats, nets and technology to ensure success. The man he teaches to fish gets an does not have access to any of that so you end with a man still asking for fish in the end.
Absolutely
@@terranark there's a logical fallacy in your response because the point remains the same if you want to uplift any society you have to heavily invest in its education and skills development and this extends to providing tools and infrastructure by government and private enterprises.
A transformation of this magnitude can take decades but history speaks for itself. How is it that countries like Japan or even Germany that were crushed after world war 2 are now leading economically? It took them a period of 20-30 years to do it... All societies that have invested heavily in education, as well as creating a cohesive culture of inclusion and solidarity and hard work tend to thrive and do better than those caught in class/race politics that go nowhere and lead to nothing except the enrichment of the ruling class.
No wonder the government invests so much energy trying to divide people and works hard to remind them of why they should be apart instead of why they should stay together. The answer is always about power and control through class divisions...divide and conquer. Consider for a moment how much more successful this country could be if the people in it worked as hard together instead of against each other.
If people actually listened to the lesson Nelson Mandela was teaching we would be farther down the road to prosperity. Consider what has happened in the past 20+ years and you will see it was a combination of government corruption and looting and a series of race division politics that has led us here. And now that China essentially owns the ANC financially this country is taking a turn towards being in debt to China for decades to come. This doesn't even begin to cover the communist aspirations of the ANC because despite the last 80 years and the inevitable fall of communism and its failure and devastating human rights violations, the ANC and EFF and SACP believe it will work for South Africa. Of course communism has never existed in any kind of pure form so it only really serves the rulers and never the people...well except maybe those politically connected.
South Africa is a sad story that can be likened to a child that was beaten and abused growing up and now as an adult it has failed to learn the lessons of the past and is beating it's children. A new generation of youngsters that didn't know Apartheid but will know poverty and suffering for decades to come because their "comrades" sold them out for power and self enrichment.
There is a simple solution to South Africa’s problems. If the gap is to be closed between races, the following needs to be done:
1) Invest more into education: Provide resources to unprivileged schools, make sure the teachers in those schools are well trained and the necessary equipment and materials are available. By providing a better quality of education to the individual learner, that student will have the ability to uplift his/her family.
2)Make sure the future of young underprivileged South Africans are secure. So this would mean, for them to grow and achieve, they need a stable environment. Their parents/caregivers need a stable income to provide for them, this would mean providing job opportunities for unskilled/semi-skilled people. Due to the past their parents wouldn’t have had the opportunity to learn valuable skills.
3) The government should provide bursaries and get companies to provide bursaries for high achievers. Lets face it, a tertiary education is expensive. Those students would then go through university/college and graduate with a degree/diploma.
4) These learners can then enter the work force, and add value to companies. The money they would earn would then go to uplifting their family and then its a chain reaction. Poverty will go down, we wont have a skills shortage, the economy will strengthen, and the gap will get smaller until it will cease to exist
....However this all relies on having responsible, educated and moral leaders....and that is another issue that needs to be dealt with
Who won in 1994 -- wealthy whites.
Washington Ngcobazi(37:35) is totally right, what a smart lad. There is no other logical way of doing it if there is I am willing to know. He put it soshort sweetly. Like the quote I am paraphrasing that I heard don't know who from but if you give a man a fish you feed him for a day and if you teach them how to fish you feed him for a lifetime.
Black Economical Empowerment discourages entrepreneurship
why do you say BEE discourage entrepreneurship?
please misunderstood me not: I like the BEE principle / idea but the implementation process of it, surely discourages entrepreneurs in a sense that, in order to win BEE Contract, many times its who you know and many young entrepreneurs knows no one but just smart guys wanting to do best...
i agree with you when you say the BEE implementation is not efficient but i still don get the' entrepreneurship discouraging' part.please watch the space on the new version BBBEE, it seems much promising.
race-based policies are self-defeating and will only make SA's economy worse.
Huh, lol
The ANC is in trouble, however there's lack of opposition party
What products do SA sell to the rest of the world? What skills do your people have to to build infrastructure, housing and who provides education?
The GDP is 3.5 billion while in Canada ( a similar population) is 1.65 trillion . All taxable to provide law and order ,healthcare. fire
protection ,ETC. You cannot build an economy while 10 percent of the people pay 93 percent of the taxes ! You're crippling your taxpayers.
Man these shows are so Good, im amazing they don't kill each other on such sensitive topics. Hell if that was the Usa
My advice to Black people allover the country is: whatever you do, be it a small menial job, career employment, self-employment, do it to your damndest best, it may be the only hope you have. Never place hope largely on politicians but rather yourself, your ability, your competence(s). Impossible is nothing !
I guarantee you, if people truly adopted such a mentality, things would change in a heartbeat, in a way that would be incomprehensible. They would start a model for others to follow. (It's something that exists within the mind, --something NO govt can create.)
It all starts with true independence (of the individual person, that is), and so much of what leftist political ideology in particular preaches/encourages people to accept, as if it was really the most beneficial to society at large, is in direct contrast to this.
This is all over the world and all the races r in on this social injustice.
This is a stupid and thoughtless piece of advice. It implies they haven’t been trying. It implies a fair system. Which is obviously not the case.
As an African American I don't see the South African economy as racist. I do however see that the country has a unique set of economic problems. The main problem is that apartheid left the majority group of the country (blacks) with little to no skills to compete and win in a capitalist economy. It would be better to take a bottom up approach to help people where they are in means of encouraging entrepreneurship and changing land ownership rights so that an individual or groups would have the benefit of owning and using the land as they see fit. Skills training and infrastructure development that link all of the country would help also. Another big problem is that change takes time. The country spent over 350 years going down the wrong path. 20 years is hardly enough time to turn the whole ship around.
Huh? Then you are obviously very naive, m ignorant N You also donot have ANY historical knowledge of SA. Please read a book NOT written by your historical enemy/oppressor.
An interesting exchange takes place beginning at 10:52, with Mr. Mabasa and Mr. Herman and then Minister Gigaba after him. Mambasa and Herman essentially say the same thing: that economic apartheid still continues. When Mabasa says it, and infers whites are still "winning" he is applauded roundly. When Mr. Herman says the same thing in the context of it continuing even in "black economic empowerment", he is greeted with disbelief and incredulity and even a hint of ridicule by the host. The minister then ridicules Herman's argument merely by pointing back to apartheid, and saying it's better now because the "majority are empowered" - even though the POINT OF THIS WHOLE DEBATE centers around the fact that the MAJORITY AREN'T empowered. And that's a solid refutation? For what?
This illustrates how much Marxists apply race victimhood to explain away economic failure on their part. The woman at 13:20 says the people don't want these economic excuses anymore. Maybe one day, she and the others like her will figure out that the "economics is racist" argument is just clap trap. They need to figure out that economics works on laws that are immutable and absolute. It's not magic. People must produce wealth. How the government might distribute tax revenues across society is another thing. But a nation must produce wealth to defeat poverty - not just sit around complaining about it or justifying it against the past.
But, Marxism always conflates social equality to being better, no matter what economic failures they produce and perpetuate. As if to say the people should be glad they have social equality in their continuing poverty.
I saw all of that and thought the same. It was pretty embarrassing.
I live in Britain, and if there is a sense of respect in not attacking minorities just for being minorities that the South Africa system has failed to impart.
Anyone can be criticised for what they say, but a lot of the jeers and cheers where apportioned solely on the skin colour of the people delivering them. It was pretty sad, really.
Well put.
Just leave black people alone and stay away from us you and your fellow demons🙏🏿
Great nd emotional episode indeed! we came and saw
When the government on charge of system, blames the system it’s created!
On the time it takes, apparently it didn’t all that long for those connected to ANC to become billionaires
When I was young I would have agreed with the 'socialists', and now in mid-life I agree with the 'capitalists'. The difference? I had to spend the last 25 years working my ass off (no family, girls, fun - just work..). Now I'm in a position where I can ease off, and I feel very resentful when poeple dismiss my sacrifice as racism (I am white btw), while they enjoy beer and girls and not having to crawl for a boss and smile at the same time. I think the system needs to change, in that the 40% of everything I earn goes to the government (tax) - should be used for all South Africans, not the big boss politicians who love there fancy cars and bling designer suits. Blaming whites in South Africa is a weak excuse by idealists who've probably never given anyone a job, or anything except peddled second-hand ideas of entitlement because they were born black. Yes, the system sucks. Work sucks. Welcome to the world - welcome to life. Have another beer and get on with it.
As post graduates of higher education and training specially FETs we need to be employer and employee at same time after exiting year .
The best point & the truest is the woman that said Apartheid did not die because of moral outrage but because it was no longer profitable.I think that is a very profound statement & it is seen across the globe-nothing is abandoned or instituted on moral grounds unfortunately-but on the checks & balances of profitability.To continue with a model of a system that was determined to no longer be profitable is a recipe for failure.
Africans should stop talking about lack of employment and pay attention to intrapreneurship, employment can not liberate our people, it keeps us dependant...
I agree
Paul Theron, tighten your seat belt brother, The #EFF has arrived
the gentlemen from Financial Sector all he cares about is global financial status, he probably doesn't even comprehend the life style in the Townships, Rural Areas...But the minister is absolutely the wrong person in his post
41:35 obviously a functioning state needs both bridges, freeways, and other infrastructure plus working hospitals and schools.
I come from a poor to middle class white family, my mom worked 6 days a week from 8am to 8pm granted I had better opportunity than black South Africans, however things did not just fall into my lap I trained as a chef and worked 70 hrs a week I earned far more than my black counterparts, because of white privilege, however looking at it from a global stand point my salary was the same as international standards, the truth is business took advantage of apartheid, and the Afrikaner looked after their own as any group anywhere in the world would, taking from the whites to improve black society, is not going to change anything, education and job creation is the answer and most important is that the salary reflects the work performed as so many get paid well for work that is not done, black empowerment has been in many cases just a smoke screen with the people given the position not being able to perform the job correctly which was the fault of inferior education in the black society, hence better education not lower standard of education to just pump out people with certificates that don't meet international criteria, there is a conception that all whites live well which in reality like any society there is really only a small segment it is not about taking from them but uplifting the condition of the poor to that level which is middle class, it is 25 years since the end of apartheid and the violence in the society has spiraled out of control the whites can't be blamed for that society both black and white if south africans want a decent future needs to end this destructive culture that is destroying the country. the law needs to be respected and in turn those in position law enforcement need to be honorable and dedicated and rewarded for their efforts, take a lesson from Australia a gun free society and 99.9% of the population respect the law, and the reformed criminals in the society is extremely high the main reason respect and support structure, the difference in the poor vs wealthy is far better than south africa, that does not mean that south africa can't achieve the same it is about not taking from those who have but society as a whole working together to raise those who are in poverty out of it, it seems such a hopeless dream I really hope it comes about after all it is not about having more than someone else but about wishing and helping those who have less to have what you enjoy, ultimately we are all one anyway just a part of one consciousness and wouldn't one want to help oneself. children of South Africa learn learn learn and care care care
Black, White, Indian,Coloured needs to stop leave the past in the past we are now in a democracy. We are South Africans let's work in unity .We have the best resources in the world. We are paying to much attention on meetings and debates talk talk and no work on the ground. As long as there is no forgiveness there will be no healing or progress. Anger ,hate, bitterness, arrogance, riots, greed, corruption ANC, racism, etc. are the pillars of our economy.
I bet you are white??
Stop complaining about getting free stuff..I see point in wanting more job opportunities.
Gigabyte is completely clueless, only singing for his supper!!!
It's hard for those who been in power to give up power, money, resources and positions
It is appalling to see white privilege corporates and elites not apologizing for their contribution and selfishness to black people's poverty as they are still benefiting to date.
When Minister Gigaba spoke about changing the system, he meant, when systems change drastically, it threatens the livelihood of white businesses particularly investors.
Hence it becomes challenging for government to initiate matters like land repatriation without compensation,
it is White investors that has the tendency of threatening to take their investments/businesses to other countries.
They always use the narrative of South Africa becoming Zimbabwe.
Ramaphosa needs to do the right thing and distribute the land accordingly to black people and farmers who are deserving.
He should stop listening to ignorant threats if he wants to see the country moving forward.
You mean give up everything they built and created? Why should they? Why can't blacks build and create their own wealth and civilisation?
I don’t know to much about South Africa economic but.. please don’t allow what is still happening in the USA to be your reality 100 yrs from now...
Africa should stop complain it’s been so many years , it’s enough, poverty it’s not life style, poverty it’s your mind set , Africans should change they mind set
WE MUST LEARN SKILLS...ON THE JOB TRAINING PROGRAM AND GIVEN A CERTIFICATION PAPERS...PROOF OF EDUCATION AND TRAINING AND EXPERIENCES....OF THAT WORK..
We have bro but white folks they dont pay u they call us cheap labour
The pie expands???? There is already money available to do more. Greed keeps money from flowing down
the skills,education etc have even a chance at succeeding.There are many times that a group comes out of repression only to have to pay the price of that repression for generations to come.It is a very sad situation but a very real one.Taking generations to see actual improvement is not an unheard of situation,sadly.Many times those that have struggled for freedom & equality are not the ones that enjoy it's benefits.
A person is never entitled to offer an apology on behalf of someone else. One cannot apologize on behalf of one's ancestors, without their explicit permission. Likewise one cannot accept (or reject) an apology on behalf of one's ancestors, without their explicit permission.
Great topic but the quality is poor.
37:30 that all you Need to know.
Education should be free, and paid by the government
I wish desperately for a better future for black South Africans, but they have the vote and as long as they vote ANC they will suffer. Vote for DA, there is a party that has education and economic growth as priorities.
Yes. Definitely
If money fell like snow in the morning , by the afternoon, it would be in drifts.
Emmerson
Watching this in 2022 is just sad, what’s the point of all these discussions and debates but 8 years later the economy is worse than it’s ever been
I agree with Washington Ngcobazi
You can give a man a fish and feed him for a day. You can teach a man how to fish and feed him for life. Many bitter Black folks just want the fish. They don't want to learn how to fish because that means they would have to get the fish themselves. This is true for Black in the US and it appears to be true in SA. However, I am noticing the young South Africans in the audience not wanting the White man's or the ANC's fish and prefer to learn how to fish instead. The same can be said for many young Blacks in the US. This is promising.
Christiaan Baron
It's the african way
Yeah. Lets not use my comment as a reason to be racist. I am fucking black you know.
No. I don't care what you think of me. Just don't use my comment to express your bigotry. I don't care if you are a bigot. Just don't bring me along with you.
Christiaan Baron Well your approach doesn't help anyone at all.
***** What are you trying to achieve by saying this?
15:30 I agree with Paul.
12:21 That's an argument AGAINST affirmative action, not for, unless you are racist of course.
Did he say shopping malls and factories😂😂😂 who owns those sir... SMH
Who built those?
WAKE-UP MY PEOPLE...EVIL IS REAL...WICKEDNESS IS REAL AND IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT YOU NEED...THIS EVIL SYSTEMS WILL NEVER CHANGE...
I wonder if all the white people South Africa left. Would their be any excuse for their failure.
let's be honest, minister is blank
Yes
"what about Venezuela?"
LOL, I just posted that same thought. Best is at 19:06 that gentleman suggests that government do everything to facilitate an environment wherein business can flourish, exactly what Trump did and now they are seeing the lowest minority unemployment ever recorded. Capitalism has lifted millions out of poverty every year, socialism still is only a beautiful argument that ruins every country that has attempted it.
Deon Cockrell China has shown that a mixed state led-socialist capitalist system actually achieves far more than America’s style of capitalism that produces a 1% that has an increasing percentage of wealth. It’s America’s failure with its style of capitalism that partially led to the rise of trump in the first place. The so called low numbers of black/minority unemployment under Trump is a farce. It was driven by tax cuts, that still need to be paid for, that businesses used to pay themselves more dividends and create jobs that don’t pay a living wage of health care. American style capitalism is often horrible to those who are at the very bottom of society
Nineteen years into democracy and as a nation we have not emanicipated ourselves from the economic apartheid ...social equality exists on paper but have we gone this far to imprison ourselves in the walls of economic apartheid...let us stop point fingers at each other and begin by cleaning the minds of those entrusted to provide the basic services of each and every individual living in South Africa...I do not care if you are Green , Navy , Pink, Coloured, Black , White ....#the economy that I do not belong in# lets go back to the drawing board and struggle for economic justice....the rich will get richer the poor will be poorer its time for you and to do our part# Tata Mandela outshined in his role i see no reason what will stop you and I. lets unite and fight economic apartheid.
yes it is racist.....look around you visit umsinga or if really want to see racial economy visit Gugulethu
Just get rid of the ANC and that will be the start of better things to come
Long way to go achieve the aims.
why is south africa richer today than it was in 1994, haven't you see the gdp
I wonder about their Agriculture. Do they have local farms? Is the country dependent on imports for nourishment, having to travel distances to purchase food or do they have farmers near by that they can trade with? You can't be educated if you're thinking about your next meal. Same with Health.
No doubt Quality Education is the key. But there must also be support for entrepreneurship.
I also like how they keep mentioning bullshit jobs as progress. They pay like shit.
Greetings what would the africa continent look like if the European diden went there to the African continent or the European broth a curse to the continent what your tauths
Man, that white dude in the glasses is rude and dismissive. He thinks the anger of the majority is because they don't have a BMWs, many girlfriends and can take trips.
how is it that societies with black oppression seem to run smoothly, but when it comes to any nation dealing with black equality every thing becomes very difficult. In America raping, killing steeling and enslaving, and becoming rich off of black slavery was done with ease, but black equality and reparations every thing is just so difficult.
Waiting + Handouts
. That indeed is the coremistake of Black African Economic Thinking. Wealth is not build by waiting nor by redistributing the recources of the white minority. That mentality of stealing what is there destroyed all African Countries after the colonies ended and lead to war and poverty. Mandela even knew that. Take a look at eastern Asia. They started with farming communities now they sell smartphones. Africans want the jobs of the whites rather than create own companies and jobs. 50 mio people want the jobs of 4 mio with the same salery. Couldn t work. BEE is imploding itself.
Cuba bancrupt, massive poverty
Venezuela bancrupt also massive poverty
Norway tiny population and massive Oil, inteligent reinvestment of recources
Australia doesn t even fit your point my lady.
Typical clueless white response to social grievances of black peoples. That’s over simplified and wrong comparison. The relationship European has with Africans is vastly different to what they had with Asians and still having. To understand this, one has to look at their social theories. The way they classified groups and their views of each groups base on classifications coincided with their attitude towards those groups. Africans and Africa where seen as capital and treated as such. Thus, the system put in a place to continue exploitation of Africans. I think resolving this issues is beneficial for white as well as the blacks. The issues don’t resolve themselves, the are resolved by those who put them in the first place otherwise revolution is inevitable.
gdp doesn't tell you anything about how wealthy the people are... there is a lot more poverty today than in 1994
Growing inequality is worldwide. I think they must urgently travel to a lot of countries even in the west the gap between rich and poor is growing fast. Everywhere the middle clsasv will disappear.
There is always a small print when it comes to these agreements. We give you freedom but on certain conditions, that's the West for you. Africa must fight for it's land, resources and get away with Capitalism and privatisation of certain sectors eg banks, telecoms, land and natural resources.
Socialists and communists not different from captalists
This country needs those guys that we use to see in movies having plugged bombs in certain governmental places and then demand large amounts of money which they use to perform the responsibilities which the government doesn't take care of.
The host kept asking the wrong question. The question should be, is the economic racism? Racist and racism are two different entities but link together.
Please that system is the white suppremecy
I only see a snake chasing it's own tail
can we stop having talks and adapt some reform economically to salvage the purity of the money we work for in America before more people are hurt behind the love and lack there-of for money
Black Americans and South Africans are similar in struggle
When rich ppl sneeze, poor ppl get the Flue
Every person has the right to be payed enough money to feed his family and educated there children and have safe place to live ,for a day worked no matter what colour your skin is or your religious beliefs. Till all our government pass laws that all people who work will be payed a wage that a person can trully live on an support his family for a honest days work.
It's an insult
Black south african take back your land and economy
asap.
And do what? collapse the economy and live in an even worse situation.
Take back what? They had no land and no economy. Whites have settled the land before blacks were even there. And blacks never built anything.
@@bijosn no man let us fall we will wake up we not scared than racist economic
@@romzen hands frm where
Masses misunderstand who the government is. The people are the government and they need to bring solutions.
Or just wealthy people...
Plaindown yes
At what point were Africans not in poverty? At what point were blacks not oppressed? Slavery in Africa remains to this day with most slaves being owned by other blacks... White colonialists lifted people from poverty, created infrastructure, brought modern medicine, education, and technology and gave Africans the ability to actually make a living. If you look at the period before apartheid to after they left, life expectancy rose by like 20+ years
ubani owathi omunye akahole kancane kunomunye?
Ace was there.
Anytime people say the system, the government it's another word for saying white ppl, or policies, laws that support white supremacy
At 12:00 is a truth they laugh at? This country is done.
I'm Black and have been considering moving to South Africa. And to be honest this debate has completely depressed me.
If 2,9% of Black People have post High School Educations, how are they going to run companies? How are they going to build businesses? How are they going to create the jobs that black Africans need?
Genuinely I'm interested in coming, starting a business and building a life, but if South Africa is going to start to look like Zimbabwe where the person who gets the job isn't the best person for the job, but the Blackest one, how does that help me?
I'll win a competition of African-ness against anyone, but if China shows anything, it shows that only education leads to empowerment. You're blaming the whites (who should recognise their privileged under Apartheid, and in global terms are even now) instead of the real culprits, the Zuma ANC. If Black people were educated and white people still owned everything I'd object.
BEE should offer seed capital and tax exemption to Blacks starting businesses, it should offer free University Education to anyone from a poor family.
But until there is an educated Black population who are capable of doing the White dominated jobs, how can you complain that no Blacks are doing them?
Get out in the streets, South Africa and protest peacefully for one thing and one thing only: EDUCATION. If when you are educated, you still cannot find work, then you have to question the privilege.
Well said.
I'm not inferior to anyone -- but I have had the benefit of a good education. I *wasn't* starved of education for my entire life before wrestling back my freedom and finding myself in charge of a country.
The problems are understandable. But the fact is that until the education problem is dealt with, there is no hope of improvement. The criminality and theft that is emblematic of South African governance is typical of a country where very few people are well educated enough to be considered for government - and a party is so revered for one great action that they are immune from rational analysis.
The problem isn't race, it's education pure and simple.
I wouldn't head for SA, it has potential but they cant sort them self's out. Education Is needed and apparently in this same show they made cuts to education. just wow.
It is even worse than that. The education system is being degraded. Today you only need 30% to pass a class. Bringing the whole country down to the lowest level of stupidity is not going to solve anything. The only way all the blacks will be happy is under a communist regime. That way everyone in the country can be starving and poor equally and the few greedy politicians can maintain their lavish lifestyle.
By "deracialising" the economy, it sure sounds like they mean reracialising the economy.
How about we start talking about the elite and the super-elite when we're discussing wealth, rather than resorting to the same old race based "inequality" politics which have gotten nowhere? How about we talk about the employed and fulltime workers vs the unemployable living on benefits payed for by the working? Let's get real here.
If these speakers want to blame apartheid, then they should be specific about what causes of apartheid they're referring to, rather than using it like this scary word that was purely evil. Let's educate the people objectively about what apartheid was, and what its actual effects were (and the all the population groups) - rather than knee-jerk responses that falsely make out the white population to be out to get the black people at every opportunity. It's become merely a buzzword that allows the ruling party to try and escape responsibility at every opportunity the are taken to task. And listeners are actually buying it.
Very true and obvious
@@joemwas5442 At least it should be obvious, but thanks
Yes the is job opportunities but how much do those jobs pay because a lot of people work for transport and debts they cant save money and the cost of food is rising so hight as if we all can afford it living the pore no share of a decent life style. so dont just talk about jobs but talk about good paying jobs
will we ever be away from the use of the words "White people" and "Black people". There is no way we are to move forward if we are still to refer to one another as "white people" and "black people". People are people and the only way for you to get out of your current poverty situation u have to move. Do something for yourself because complaining about how the government is failing you and how apartheid damaged people you are never going to leave the poverty house. most if not all rich people have had to do it for themselves; exception being given to those who inherited.
+edgar daveyton still, the the structural mechanism of inequality have to change. you can't just brush off and close the eyes hoping that things will be better. people have the right and the obligation to question the prevailing unjust system that keeps poor more poorer and the rich more richer
SA caught up in a manipulation situation
Is the problem the system or is it that they can't and/or don't know how to use the infrastructures and the structural directives under their command? I don't think given the black the lands the whites now own will change their conditions. Sure it might make them eat better for a year or so, but I think by the second year South Africa will be a third world disaster. So I think it's hard to call this one out. Although I want to say the government is smart to not go the Zimbabwe's way, I think they're too corrupt to believe they'll come to a fair conclusion.
That minister is the reason Africa is going downhill.
we need space as black people live our african lives, i took a plane from Jhb to cpt and as i was up there i realised that we as south african blacks have been crooked the land, we need land to build our private rich schools,land to build our cities, land to build our big houses. we are now packed at one township a million of us,with dysfunctional cities. come on even if the government makes a difference it wont be visible because we are plenty in one area.
Building RDP IS like giving a poor person R50 of his money when he supposed to be getting R500,000 yes he wont say no but that doesn't make you an angel ANC has done a lot but it always wait for the problem to accelerate and do something about it when people sim to be fuming angry when they where supposed to have done the job in time they never meet the dateline and want us to acknowledge what they done.
Next time vote for Malema things will change.
yeah, true dat, they betray each other, then they blame us, ....
THE BLACK PEOPLE EVERYWHERE DON'T HAVE MONEY TO BUY ANY OF THE THINGS AT THE MALLS...SHOPPING CENTERS..THE BLACK PEOPLE NEED HIGHER WAGES...
y can't they close there business then.
I do not understand this please with due respect can someone please explain to me? How can white people (White South Africans) be racist in Africa? are they forgeting that South Africa is in Africa? In Europe white their tell black people to go back to Africa, but thier in South Africa. I really do not understand. pls pls pls someone explain this to me. I am really confused.
Is there still Apartheid? Has it not ended?
Also, would it be any less racist for black Africans to tell white Africans to 'go back to Europe' than it would be for white Europeans to tell black Europeans to 'go back to Africa?'
But really though, are there really that many white Europeans saying such things to black people in their countries?
51MontyPython
First blacks CANNOT be racist. Second the white population settled there against the will of the Native people, oppressed them, stole their land and wealth, killed them for centuries. They DO NOT have a claim to any land or even a "right" to be there. If you want to go that route.
kleymannie
I wouldn't argue that the things you mentioned didn't happen, except that there is one part of what you said that I would question, and another I _would_ argue against adamantly (though not "violently";) and completely.
1) _Who_ is "they"?
...and 2) Yes blacks can be racist.
51MontyPython
You know exactly whom I am speaking about. Dont play dumb. Blacks cannot be racist. There is only one system of racism that exists that is White Supremacy.
kleymannie
_What,_ then, _is_ racism?