Your totally welcome my brother. I think it can be a major obstacle for any seeker, as it was for me to. Key thing to remember is just not associating yourself with your thoughts & remaining as present as you can. If your devoted to knowing yourself & just keep accepting and surrendering yourself to experience then it has no choice but to reveal itself to you through experience 💚 Reach out anytime here or on any platform I have and I'll always do my best to provide any helpful guidance or information 🙏
Hi Koolaid thanks for the question! So I wouldn't really call it a choice, it's more like a realization. So the typical person not only believes but feels that they are the doer of experience, if we are investigating into the nature of ourselves then at some point we begin to make our stand as the "witness" but we can only do that by seeing clearly first that we aren't our thoughts, images, sensations, and perceptions. From their we just have to continuously abide in and as the witness, by doing so it's eventually realized to the seeker that there is no doer, so we can say yes it's a choice at some level to begin divesting ourselves of that belief or identity and just giving our attention to the witness. The more and more we become aware of these "I" thoughts and disassociate ourselves from it the more it is seen clear that there is no doer. In most cases it's definitely a gradual process as the rational mind is deeply wedded to the "doer" and the "I" thought can be very... evasive from our awareness mostly because of the decades of conditioning we've layed upon ourselves. Constant self-abidance, acceptance, and surrender will eventually lead the seeker to this realization of no-doer. I hope this answered your question :]
@@jay.the.mystic thanks for taking the time to respond! perhaps an experience is required for me to truly understand. But isn't non-doing a form of doing, i.e. detaching and disassociating your identity from what is happening? maybe another way to ask is... is the "will" that takes us from the experience of doing to non-doing, a form of doing or also something we just watch? I guess maybe it doesn't matter. But I don't see an issue with experience of doing.
My pleasure. So yes, there is an experience that is required if we can say that is necessary for one to even have the realization that one isn't a doer and that is the experience of Being. It's has been seen clearly first that you are Awareness and not a body/mind through direct experience rather than intellectual and conceptual knowing. If you are doing than your not being, If you are being your doing. So just by being your are doing, and if your doing you are not being. it's a paradox you awareness must see in your experience. There is no issue with the experience of doing but the reality is that there is doing yet no doer. If you try to understand this with the intellect the rational mind will argue, this is why when we expose to the mind truths of ourselves and reality through experience, then it changes HOW we experience.
This was very helpful to me on this issue, I appreciate your take on it, Jay. Thank you, as I seem to struggle with it.
Your totally welcome my brother.
I think it can be a major obstacle for any seeker, as it was for me to. Key thing to remember is just not associating yourself with your thoughts & remaining as present as you can. If your devoted to knowing yourself & just keep accepting and surrendering yourself to experience then it has no choice but to reveal itself to you through experience 💚
Reach out anytime here or on any platform I have and I'll always do my best to provide any helpful guidance or information 🙏
refreshing! in other words, do we/God make choices? is identifying as the doer or the witness (or both/neither) a choice?
Hi Koolaid thanks for the question! So I wouldn't really call it a choice, it's more like a realization. So the typical person not only believes but feels that they are the doer of experience, if we are investigating into the nature of ourselves then at some point we begin to make our stand as the "witness" but we can only do that by seeing clearly first that we aren't our thoughts, images, sensations, and perceptions. From their we just have to continuously abide in and as the witness, by doing so it's eventually realized to the seeker that there is no doer, so we can say yes it's a choice at some level to begin divesting ourselves of that belief or identity and just giving our attention to the witness. The more and more we become aware of these "I" thoughts and disassociate ourselves from it the more it is seen clear that there is no doer. In most cases it's definitely a gradual process as the rational mind is deeply wedded to the "doer" and the "I" thought can be very... evasive from our awareness mostly because of the decades of conditioning we've layed upon ourselves. Constant self-abidance, acceptance, and surrender will eventually lead the seeker to this realization of no-doer.
I hope this answered your question :]
@@jay.the.mystic thanks for taking the time to respond! perhaps an experience is required for me to truly understand. But isn't non-doing a form of doing, i.e. detaching and disassociating your identity from what is happening? maybe another way to ask is... is the "will" that takes us from the experience of doing to non-doing, a form of doing or also something we just watch? I guess maybe it doesn't matter. But I don't see an issue with experience of doing.
My pleasure.
So yes, there is an experience that is required if we can say that is necessary for one to even have the realization that one isn't a doer and that is the experience of Being. It's has been seen clearly first that you are Awareness and not a body/mind through direct experience rather than intellectual and conceptual knowing.
If you are doing than your not being, If you are being your doing.
So just by being your are doing, and if your doing you are not being.
it's a paradox you awareness must see in your experience. There is no issue with the experience of doing but the reality is that there is doing yet no doer. If you try to understand this with the intellect the rational mind will argue, this is why when we expose to the mind truths of ourselves and reality through experience, then it changes HOW we experience.