Outstanding explanation of flex tuning vs. nock tuning! The breakdown was clear and comprehensive, making the complexities of both methods easy to grasp. This video is a must-watch for archers looking to fine-tune their equipment. Thanks for shedding light on these essential tuning techniques! 🏹🎯
When you add lenght to the insert, you also add spine to the shaft, it is like you cut the shaft shorter. This is the main reason you keep making bullet holes when you add weight to the insert.
This great for people to see. Also people who can’t get 2 sided broad heads to fly don’t realize they need to line them up with the spine index of the arrow. Your method makes that quite easy without using a ram machine. Also I think it would have help people see you shoot the same arrows you spine indexed with the nock misaligned to show how truly the effects the paper tear.
I have that same pipe clamp and i just did this!!! THANK YOU!!! I subbed. If someone reading this is skeptical, just try it and when see just how LITTLE you have to rotate the arrow to get it to either side... It is truly eye opening!! I just haveto replace a D loop and back to the paper!! Thanks again!!!
Excellent presentation all around!! You are an excellent teacher, even down to the cadence of your speech. This is a really well done video in all aspects. Thank you, blessing to you and yours!
So I got my 36" long section of 3/4" NPT pipe delivered today and got the set of clamps for $9 from Harbor Freight. I had eight Axis shafts marked in 15 minutes. Thank you for your videos! Saved me so much time from how I nock tuned previous builds.
@@mat_in_texas Went out this morning and shot about 30 arrows - with 20 of them being at 40 yards. They flew fantastic. I could see the white vanes in the air maintain a vertical plane on the rise and drop in to the target, on every single arrow.
Between this video and John Stallone’s that you mentioned I am blown away by this simple concept. I would like to point something out though. My thought is that this works better on .003 shafts than straighter .001 or better is not because it’s flexing with spine as much as it’s flexing in the direction of the defect in straightness. Maybe both factors play a significant role in deflection. I don’t know, just food for thought. Regardless of the “why”, I’m super excited to get my next 2 dozen shafts behaving similarly and with less headache. Thanks a ton!
You’re exactly right. This method may be less effective on high end match grade shafts. But us common folk can’t justify spending that much on something I’m just gonna lose anyway 😂
Thank you for sharing this method. It’s always great to see how different people use different methods to try to get to the same place! Logically, this seems to be the most accurate way to align arrows. Nock tuning (I’ve done it) is great, but is influenced by too many other factors. If you change your release or anchor position, the nock tune becomes void. It’s the same if you start to torque the bow. If you combine this method with torque tuning to determine the proper rest distance from the riser, it should creat a very forgiving setup. Fantastic information!
There’s definitely more than one way to skin a cat and that’s true as ever in archery. I’ve done the nock tuning thing and was experiencing some of exactly what you mentioned. I find this to be more consistent and effective.
ya its amazing how ppl dont now the coorect way so the self align.... great ! take 45 second to noch for me... hows he doing? ps if the end of the arrow gets a pencil cut it align with the reverse cut it the nock itself :-\ perhaps he should learn from an instructor.... we do 16 arrows an hour (round fletching table)
I use this basic method on my lathe. I made 2 buttons that the points will go into. I put a point in each end of the arrow and put it between centers and turn the tail stop in to bend the arrow. When it bends I mark the highest spot. Then I loosen the arrow and put that mark up. Then press it again. If the mark goes to the top then that arrow is done. I check each one at least twice. I have never had an arrow bend in different directions. It bends the same spot every time. Sometimes they bend down and i cant mark it so I turn it 180 and bend it again. It will bend up and I can mark the top. Can do a dozen in 5 minutes easy. I also found if I bend one a little or a lot the direction stays the same. This method works good for me. No issues or nock tuning needed.
@@mat_in_texas not sure its any better than a wood clamp. But its probably easier because it doesn’t move around. Its amazing how consistent the arrows bend to the same exact spot. I just did a batch of victories that are spine aligned from the factory. Every dozen I do has at least 2 that doesn’t match their marks. I put my new marks on them and they shoot good. MFJJ said he finds a few victories that dont line up also. Wonder how they find the spine at the factory. Bending between centers has been fast and easy and accurate for me. It just makes sense that when the arrow is released the string pushing the nock against the weight of the tip is going to bend the arrow. Its bending it from both ends just like this method of finding the spine. Now all you need to do is experiment with where you want the spine to be when on the bow. I have played around with it a lot. I found weak side up is best for me. But they shoot good in any position as long as they are all in the same alignment. You can definitely get you bow too shoot bullet holes by rotating the arrow to different spots instead of moving the cams or arrow rest. Archery is full of rabbit holes to fall into. Ultimately good form and practice is the best hole to fall into.
The explanation is that you are at the same distance for every test. Try it at different distances and you might see a different result. The window of "forgiveness" will seem much smaller when you bare shaft multiple distances at once.
You are absolutely correct. This was a simple demonstration to show the starting point. After this, there are many ways to dial in a tune and stepping back is probably the next step.
It's called Puring. Any avid golfer knows the goal of spine tuning their golf shafts is to find the most stable orientation to ensure the shaft bends on a neutral axis. That little jig you built is a game changer. You ought to patent it and market it. Google SST Puring and you'll see how important it to locate the spine and orientate the shaft to the optimum orientation an bend consistently.
It’s funny to me how many people that use carbon in other industries have commented about similar methods used to find consistency. Confirms on headed the right direction.
I used to build custom fishing rods. Finding the spine is important for proper mounting of line guides. Spining is important because if the rod is spined improperly the cast will not go where the fisherperson has aimed. When I shot archery in the 70s IIRC my mentor/pro always spined my X-7 Easton's by somehow pressing down on the middle of the shaft which was mounted on rollers. He straightened my arrows that way also. That is all I remember about that.
Dude..... scientific reasoning, tested and proven results = facts in my book....... Im going to buy one of those clamp things tonight, I've spent so much time nock tuning in the past. Where have you been for the past x amount of years lol... Thanks for the video.
The reason you were able to add that much weight is because you added it as insert weight. From my experience, as you add insert weight, it effectively shortens the bendinging portion of the arrow, creating a stiffer dynamic spine.
@@mat_in_texas Heavier inserts would have the same effect on spine as heavier points; the consensus on that it it weakens dynamic spine as the arrow absorbs more energy thus flexes more. Comment?
@@davida.4933 yes, but if you’re putting weight behind the insert, you’re shortening how much of the arrow is actually flexing because it now has a chunk of metal up there. So in essence, it does shorten the arrow and stiffness of the spine
Excellent Explanation !!! I use the same principle, but since I have access to a lathe, I just put the shaft, between 2 centers, one in the chuck, and one in the tail stock, and dial in the tail stock, just enough to flex the arrow, same results, perfect every time !
This is the same idea as they do for golf club shafts when they pure them. They vibrate the shafts and see which way they want to flex. Then they assemble the club and align that bend point inline with the club face. I’ve been trying to figure out how do do this easily with arrow shafts. I think this is it.
Great video! 👍🏻 saves alot of time. Years ago I did the soapy water method. Pretty much the idea is that the spine of the arrow will rotate downward sinking towards the bottom. I wasn’t very consistent with being able to mark it since it was all wet. Will be doing this next. 🎯
Okay, sorry to be against the grain here. However, I used same clamp, use a micrometer to mark dimple spots and an automatic center punch. Victory 300 spine XV’s. Ethics 225 SS milled inserts and field points, I squared each end with arrow square tool. I marked and labeled point/insert combo nock/tip not to confused them. I would get great results at first, until i turned the insert/FP 180 degrees. Then the ‘weak side’ would rotate opposite side from previous result. This test is only as accurate as your clamp,arrow specs, and components, which none of them I used were cheap junk. Try it for yourself. However, I did not have luck.
I hang bamboo arrows between 2 nails, with a 2lb weight Mark an average point where you can get most of the batch to meet (because they will always bend more on one side), cut the nock to align the stiff side to the bow. (You can rotate the shaft to get the bow side spine consistent) I don't bother with carbons, but if I was pushing beyond 50 meters on a target bow, I might try it.
I had no idea buying my first traditional bow that it was going to become the most nerdy hobby that I embarked on but I'm absolutely into it ... Just sad I didn't know all this before buying my setup yesterday because I would have had a lot more input! I had the the shop set my arrows and hand me the bow and I went straight to the targets lol
I’m just sad that you think it’s nerdy! ???! Shoot often,don’t aim pick a spot and loose the arrow Do not think about it. Before you know it you’ll be hitting where you’re looking! When that happens you can “start to aim”and really get accurate If you grew up shooting a slingshot the process will be much easier. Good luck and be proud of yourself as you continue to improve!!
@@MichaelLakota-vc4tk thx Mike. Definitely prefer instinctive shooting. I tried 3 under and split finger and immediately preferred Split. Idk why anyone would prefer to pull the string in a less mechanically advantageous spot.
Good video! Ive been using this same process since the mid-90's when the skinny little beman and AFC carbons started getting popular, because it was too hard to "float" them the way I could with aluminum arrows. Again good video!
The thing that’s surprising me the most is how many people say they been using this method for years and in your case decades. It’s such a simple process, how has this not become a common practice in the industry?
@@mat_in_texas I agree, I think the reason is, is that people who are predominant in our industry have found what "works for them" and it makes it the old "my way or the highway" thought process... and people who are following their favorite 'star' figures that if it works for them, it's the only way also... I started floating arrows back in the 80's, after finding I was getting "flyers" out of certain arrows.. a friend of mine turned me on to it.. (although for different reasons) it made sense, because when I built cedar shafts, I would index off of the "straight grain" , but would use a spine tester on both sides of the straight grain, a put what ever side was slightly stiffer nocked out... When the bemans and afc's first came out, they were super skinny, and it just made it harder to do... I honestly don't remember who told me about flexing them, but it worked and ive done it ever since.. Sry, that was pretty long winded...
Don’t get me wrong, I like learning the intricacies of the sport. But… Most of us average guys do not need to get lost in the weeds on some of this tuning stuff because we’re not trying to pick up one or two points to win a national championship. I really think there needs to be a focus on basic set ups, simple things (like this bend test) that get guys headed in the right direction, that does not require hours and hours of tinkering with your stuff just to get a single set of arrows to shoot straight. Then find out you have to start the entire process over if you change anything with your setup.
@@mat_in_texas I agree! When I first started in archery.. 40 something years ago 😳 I, for the most part HAD to tinker, not that I'm complaining at all, but there were no video platforms to show how certain things were done... more people should probably give out their little "tricks" so that the new/beginner archer has a set up in the process... I've been putting a lot of "how to" videos on my channel, but not geared towards tuning and setup.. maybe I will.. 🤷
Hi. It's the first time I watch your video. I've design a similar device to do the bending test like you do, but I put my device verticaly to cancel the action of gravity on the center of the shaft. I found that vertically, the results were different and more consistent than placing the device horizontally.
@rijodel I was having trouble with a couple new shafts and your comment about having it vertical came to mind, gave it a try and holy cow! It works. Definitely makes a difference
I ended up doing it vertically as well. Any arrow that is borderline in the flex direction can be influenced by gravity, as I’ve witnessed. After bend testing I went through and shot paper. They were all consistent bullet holes and much faster than nock tuning.
I normally do the bend test, mark the weak side. Ratate the arrow numerous times without checking. Then do the test again. 98% of the time i will get exactly same side. Better to do more than two spins
I’ve been using this same flex testing method for years. After countless dozens of arrows, I’ve yet to find a single shaft that nock tuning impoved after the flex test.
@@mat_in_texas a wood working clamp similar in design to yours. I will add that the dimples that the tips go in have to be in the same spot on either end. If not, your not going to get good results.
looks like a good way to "tune" poorly matched/spined arrows, (manufacturing "matched" all carbon shafts is inherently difficult) ,, You are marking the stiff side of the shaft.. back when carbon arrows first came out you could look at the end and clearly see one side was "thicker".ie the hole/bore of the shaft was not centered, maybe you still can?? AFC s were tough to get shooting as well as aluminum without some type of matching....The "beman" was not like this, they were a 2 part shaft, it had 2 seams opposite each other. ., I think i was probably the first to win a compound target nationals with carbon arrows back in 1990 (NFAA field nationals and PAA outdoor target nationals ) The beman had a good stiff nock but the shafts were easily damaged (i went through 6 dozen shafts that yr) .& did not require anything other than paper tuning to get them to group great. Easton bought them out a yr or 2 later. Easton overcame the centering (spine) problem by using a small aluminum shaft core. I'm sure this "bend" tuning would have made the other arrow all carbon arrow shafts competitive when combined with weight matching, Wish this info was available back then!! (The entire shaft weight is what is important, not just the point)... Thanks for the video... . .... . .
Bend tested my crossbow bolts. Now I need to determine which way to have the bend go when I shoot. I think the bend direction should be away from the rail, so the flex is not pushing my bolt bend into the rail.
I have a similar clamp but mine has too much play in it so checking my arrows was unsuccessful. I tried it with the clamp horizontal and vertical with different results for each.
To be fair, nock tuning actually shows what is happening when the arrow is fired from the bow. If this is out of square, even in the slightest, you will get a false reading. Nothing here is really precision gear.
To prove your point I think you should turn your nocks randomly and shoot with the heavy points again, I’ll bet you will get the same results. As long as your center shot is the same it doesn’t matter how much weight you have on the tip, that arrow will snake right through that hole in the paper I guarantee it
I tried the bend test with 'spine aligned' Victory RIP shafts, only about 50% of them lined with the factory spine align mark. Not sure what that says about the whole marketing concept of 'spine aligned' arrows
I think it’s bogus. I doubt they’re testing each arrow individually, and it’s probably being done as a batch, which I have no idea how it could be accurate at that point.
Makes sense just from a common sense standpoint. If youve ever built a fishing rod, step one is finding the spine of your rod blank. This is done by flexing the blank so it naturally shows its weakest side while bending. Arrow construction is not much different, and similarly you are looking for the same type of bend point.
Good that you’re thinking and tinkering. However, explanation is going to confuse people. Nock tuning is dynamic spine test and will not necessarily be aligned exactly as your first test which is more of a static spine test. You really need to do both with each arrow. Interesting though
@@mat_in_texas static- stationary…… dynamic- with movement. Dynamic is shooting out of bow…. There is no restriction on the point end. I do both. Doesn’t always perfectly align together ( in other words the flex of the arrow will not always be least with the static spine mark pointed up
I’m not trying to find where it bends least, I’m trying to find where it bends the most consistent and then aligning that with the direction the bow is trying to bend the arrow, which, with a compound bow is down.
Nice video. I would have liked to seen you take a couple of tuned arrows and turned the nocks a few degrees to see the differences when shot through paper.
Very interesting, I like easy processes of your press bending the arrow. I do similar with a spine indicator but for some reason I put the stiffest part of the spine up. So I think its opposite of your set up. Don't stock factory spine aligned arrows come with the spine mark up? Now I have to test some of my factory made spine aligned arrows and make sure what is going on there. Some day I will get a bar press like that and check it out. Thanks for the great video.
I haven’t played with factory spine aligned arrows much. A buddy of mine shoots Victory and when he put his arrows through this test, two or three are usually off from the factory markings. This is quick enough to run through a dozen and double check really easy
@@mat_in_texas Yes, I too have found the Victory spine aligned arrows to be close but not perfectly aligned. Like this batch I just checked looked like the spine was all 90 degrees off so they would be good for re curve but 90 degrees off for compound boaw.
@@mat_in_texas I checked the batch of Vicortory VAP 400 elites that I have and most were all 90 degrees so that if on a re-curve bow and the odd fletch was out to the side of the bow the spine would be set to be the same. So maybe the 400 elites are factory set for a recurve bow. But yes a lot of factory spines that advertise spine aligned may not be very aligned
Ultimately it might matter what the spine orientation is for an optimal setup, but the most important thing is that the arrows are doing the SAME thing every time. The spine orientation to the bow might be important, but all the arrows spined the same direction is MORE important. That said, I don't bother doing this with carbons, natural material bamoo and wood, yes.
Great video and very informative. I do have a question about something you mentioned early in your video about the shop setting your bow up and paper tuning and then sending you on your way. As a tech I am curious what else you would have liked to have them do for you as a customer. I am always seeking to offer the best experience.
There’s a bit to the story, but it boils down to them not wanting to do anything after the initial purchase because I didn’t buy a flagship bow. They offered “tunes for life” but wouldn’t put any effort in. The initial loop and paper tune was fine, but as I improved my form and started making changes to my set up, they didn’t want to do what was needed. My bow needed to have the top hats switched, but they didn’t want to order them and then “tuned” my bow to some other arrow. Needless to say, he sold the business because he’d ran off most of his customers.
as a customer I would want them to take you through how the bow works and have the me shoot it a couple time especially if this is your first bow every guy thinks he can pull 70 out the gate.
At least a basic setup tune, then a retune after a few weeks of settling in the strings and getting used to to bow. If I buy a sight from you, I'd like you to offer to install it and set it up. Maybe not hold my hand to sight it in, but at least get it on the bow and all squared up. I suppose give some incentive to buy from you vs buying online. I'm looking at releases now. I'd much prefer to go to a shop and be able to try a few and buy what I like best compared to hoping I pick one I like online.
Dynamic spine vs static spine this only finds the static… I’ve tried the bend indexing and found it pretty random… have a arrow bend down turn the arrow bends down.. theoretically it makes sense just like floating them in water but till Tim gillingham does this I won’t (not a sounding like a fan boy) but Tim takes a very logical scientific approach and tests the shit out of everything
I have a question sir. Your explaination suggested to mark the index when the bend is facing downward. I just a saw a video of some guy doing the same method but he marked in when the arrow are bending upward. Which one the correct one?
I really wanted to get behind this, tried it out and just couldn't get consistent enough results with 3 different spine arrows. I flexed each arrow 6 or 8 times, and it flexed different ways each time. Great idea just not for me.
@@mat_in_texas seeing as I’m working with short x-bow arrows/bolts,they weren’t long enough to flex 🤷🏼♂️ so I still have to paper tune with fletching-My system is too long and tedious to do unless you have a lot of time and patience. Let me know if you tried that method and your results 👍🏻
@@MichaelLakota-vc4tk oh yes, I’ve done that in the past. Long and tedious are the best words to describe it. I’ve found I essentially get the same result in a fraction of the time by indexing them by the bend test.
@@mat_in_texas I had a feeling it would. When I need to build more arrows I will order full length shafts,do the bend test then cut them down to size. Thanks for the info!
From my understanding, aluminum arrows don’t have a seam, so this really wouldn’t apply to them. You could always try and see how it works. Report back if you do.
Essentially. In theory the bend test and spine tester should produce similar results. Although in the real world, the arrow may not always bend exactly as expected after finding the spine on a spine tester.
I did the same thing except I used my lathe. The dozen arrows had already been nock tuned so I wound up with marks for nock tuning and bend tuning on the same set of arrows. I then shot them thru paper and the nock tuned arrows gave better results thru paper. You are right bending the arrows is much faster and I really wished it could replace nock tuning. But in the end I went with my nock tuned arrows because I was shooting fixed broadheads and they flew good.
I’m assuming you had nock tuned first and had marked them accordingly. So after you did the bend test, were all your nock tune marks oriented in about the same direction?
I have a question in regards to the pipe clamp set-up. Does it make a difference in the way the arrow bends if the dimple in the end clamps aren't in the same location to each other? Not that one end is lower,higher, or offset to the other.
I don’t have any definitive proof to say so, but I would assume it would have some sort of an effect. In theory, you want it to compress the two ends in a straight line to each other for it to produce the best results.
You’re not wrong, this video was mostly explaining why the process works, I have a couple other videos where I demonstrate how to do the Bend test in more detail and get the best results out of the arrows. I encourage you to go watch a couple of those.
@@mat_in_texas Thanks. I was intrigued and the explanation makes sense, and then I saw that and was like wait a second. I was watching a Ranch Fairy video about nock tuning and he said he'd drive himself crazy trying to test the bend on an arrow, but it seems like it would be a lot easier and faster to test than shooting a bunch of arrows and using your best judgement on how they land
I'm not set up to tune my bow at home, so once I flex tune my arrows do I take them all into the shop and have them tune my bow for every arrow or just one from the group? Thank you so much! Dig the bracelet by the way!
@@mat_in_texas Sorry. I should have clarified. haha. They only bent one direction, upwards. So if I took them out, and put them in a different face side up, they still bent upwards. However, I fixed my problem. I didn't put in a filed point on either end.... once I did this, I was able to get consistent bend points and find the weak point. Thanks for the video! Great trick! I will be finishing my arrows over the next few days.
So I'm trying to apply this method to crossbow tuning. I started paper tuning my crossbows with fletchings on. It works pretty well but because you're limited to the three positions of the fletching, there is variability error to arrow even if they're more consistent shot to shot with the same arrow. If you bear shaft across both bowl through paper, it's always tail high. Because of the way it comes off the rails I think. So after spine matching them all, do you have any guesses as to what direction would be best when shooting out of crossbow, stiff side up or stiff side down?
How did you come to the conclusion that the bow wants to bend the arrow down at 180°? Honest question. I am a spine indexing proponent and have always wondered in which position the spine would fly best, but have never spent the time to test.
Honestly, I don’t have any proof of it. That’s just what I’ve gathered from watching other videos by professionals and reading articles about archer Paradox in compound bows.
The direction the arrow bends is the weak side, so when I mark the top, in theory, I’m marking the stiff side, and that’s the side I put up when I fletch. But like you said, the biggest thing is that they are all consistent.
I bet if the holes you drilled are not perfectly even on each side as well as any slop in the clamp itself, will put tension in an un-square direction, over powering the spine and pushing it in one direction no matter how you rotate it.
There is a way that is by far more easy to solve this issue and that is to buy arrows that have a stiffer spine than you think you need for your bow. Way to many shoot arrows on the soft side and that makes it extremely more finnicky to tune everything for great arrow flights and great accuracy. The reality is that people can shoot much stiffer spines than they think is perfect when using something like a drop away rest or similar. And by shooting these stiff spines, you eliminate any need for nock tuning or bend testing the arrows as long as you buy quality arrows that are 0.003 or better and even most of the time for 0.006 arrows. I bare shaft tune my setup and by using stiffer spines, does it not matter if I crank up the poundage a bit, use heavier points and other changes. Way to many archers are hung up in the old days when a perfect spine was needed for the arrow to band free from the bow after releasing it. With most arrow rests and compound bows today, this is not needed at all. I have been shooting compound bows since 1986 and I have not been doing any nock tuning or bend testing for at least 20 years now. Also when using a Whisker Biscuit for one of my hunting bows, this is not needed to do as well. Buy at least one spine stiffer than you think you need and your life will be so extremely much better as an archer/bowhunter.
I have come to the conclusion that I need a stiffer spine, currently shooting 400’s. I was going to buy some 340’s but I was also considering just jumping up to a 300.
@@mat_in_texas what was the black bar on the bottom of it and is that the name of the clamps to ask for, thanks again for replying a lot of Guy won’t reply for some reason.
@@CharlieParsons-d7v no worries man. The actual bar is usually sold separately because you can get the in a lot of different lengths depending on your needs. I have the 48” bar/pipe. They’re threaded on one end to accept the end with the handle, then the other end slides on and can be adjusted as needed. And Bessy is the brand of the clamps. Any half decent shop should carry them or something very similar.
he knows very little, the nock has a pionted shpe cut in the back so the noch aligns straight with the pencil like cut you should have put on you arrow. been archery instructer for years, both traditional and modern.. no aligning needed, there self aligning.... just a bit ofhot melt and yer good :-\
So on your test the bend being straight down. Does that put the weakest part of the spine facing straight up and the stiffest part of the spine facing 90 left or right?
I’ve never compared the way arrows flex in this situation versus an actual spine tester, but I believe they flex to the weakest side, so in my case, it’s weak down, stiff up
Absolutely, and if you have enough vane clearance from your rest, you may not even need to re-fletch them. Just twist them to the correct orientation and go shoot ‘em
I argue that you would want them to flex down, but other guys that use this method and shoot target arrows off of a blade rest, say that you should have them bend up
This is NOT an accurate method of tuning arrows. Doesn’t matter. Nothing will beat actually shooting arrows , especially bare shaft and nock tuning. This is no better than floating arrows
@@mat_in_texas my experience is when my bow is in a really good place for tune and a forgiving speed in the 280s range I don’t get nearly as much change in barehafts when nock tuning. (Assuming you’ve got well built arrows with good spine consistency) In turn it’s very forgiving to different spines as well. My lift 33 will shoot 300 340 and 400 spine bare shafts at 30 yards with ease. I’ve found this to be the case with most bows in the past 7-8 years. If your right on the edge of a good tune say you have perfect barehaft at 20 yards but requires a certain nock setting I find them not to be forgiving to spine changes and nock tuning etc.. The tune still needs work if you’re having to dance around nocks to get a clean bareshaft. Simply put in the past 10 years I’ve not had a bow that wouldn’t shoot 300-400 spine arrows out of the same tune setting with bareshafts at 25-30 yards. All of my bows have shot barehafts at 100 yards when my tune was complete. At that level forgiveness start shining.
@@jwild5360 I wholeheartedly agree. Bows these days can be tuned to shoot just about any arrow. And the arrows themselves are getting better. The more expensive arrows definitely require less work to shoot better, this method is for us average guys that shoot average arrows. It’s just a simple way to get everything headed the same direction before applying your preferred tuning method. I’m also a big fan of the bare shaft tune. But I definitely don’t have the skills to shoot out to 100 yards 😂 I would seriously love to see a video of that.
I have very little experience with the trad stuff, but I think it would. You’d want to orient the bend to the left or right though, vs down with a compound
Thank you for watching! Ya, this was my first video I put up and was a compilation of Instagram videos. I never intended on putting this on TH-cam when I was filming it.
Outstanding explanation of flex tuning vs. nock tuning! The breakdown was clear and comprehensive, making the complexities of both methods easy to grasp. This video is a must-watch for archers looking to fine-tune their equipment. Thanks for shedding light on these essential tuning techniques! 🏹🎯
When you add lenght to the insert, you also add spine to the shaft, it is like you cut the shaft shorter.
This is the main reason you keep making bullet holes when you add weight to the insert.
I did this and it works!!! Thank you for some great advice! It is a no brainer, way better than nock tuning.
This great for people to see. Also people who can’t get 2 sided broad heads to fly don’t realize they need to line them up with the spine index of the arrow. Your method makes that quite easy without using a ram machine. Also I think it would have help people see you shoot the same arrows you spine indexed with the nock misaligned to show how truly the effects the paper tear.
This is the perfect way , any length of arrow.
14 years it's never failed me .
Great video.
Right on
I have that same pipe clamp and i just did this!!!
THANK YOU!!! I subbed.
If someone reading this is skeptical, just try it and when see just how LITTLE you have to rotate the arrow to get it to either side... It is truly eye opening!!
I just haveto replace a D loop and back to the paper!! Thanks again!!!
Thanks for the sub!
@@mat_in_texas again, I can't say thank you enough!
Brother,
You made nock tuning idiot proof!! Thanks for a very well made video...
Craig
And that’s what I need 😂
Excellent presentation all around!! You are an excellent teacher, even down to the cadence of your speech.
This is a really well done video in all aspects.
Thank you, blessing to you and yours!
Thank you
So I got my 36" long section of 3/4" NPT pipe delivered today and got the set of clamps for $9 from Harbor Freight. I had eight Axis shafts marked in 15 minutes. Thank you for your videos! Saved me so much time from how I nock tuned previous builds.
Let me know how they shoot after you have it all tuned up
@@mat_in_texas Yes sir will do!
@@mat_in_texas Went out this morning and shot about 30 arrows - with 20 of them being at 40 yards. They flew fantastic. I could see the white vanes in the air maintain a vertical plane on the rise and drop in to the target, on every single arrow.
@@sthompson447 happy to hear it! Make a video and post it here or on Instagram and tag me in it.
Can you post a link for the clamps?
Between this video and John Stallone’s that you mentioned I am blown away by this simple concept.
I would like to point something out though. My thought is that this works better on .003 shafts than straighter .001 or better is not because it’s flexing with spine as much as it’s flexing in the direction of the defect in straightness. Maybe both factors play a significant role in deflection. I don’t know, just food for thought. Regardless of the “why”, I’m super excited to get my next 2 dozen shafts behaving similarly and with less headache. Thanks a ton!
You’re exactly right. This method may be less effective on high end match grade shafts. But us common folk can’t justify spending that much on something I’m just gonna lose anyway 😂
Thank you for sharing this method. It’s always great to see how different people use different methods to try to get to the same place! Logically, this seems to be the most accurate way to align arrows. Nock tuning (I’ve done it) is great, but is influenced by too many other factors. If you change your release or anchor position, the nock tune becomes void. It’s the same if you start to torque the bow. If you combine this method with torque tuning to determine the proper rest distance from the riser, it should creat a very forgiving setup. Fantastic information!
There’s definitely more than one way to skin a cat and that’s true as ever in archery. I’ve done the nock tuning thing and was experiencing some of exactly what you mentioned. I find this to be more consistent and effective.
ya its amazing how ppl dont now the coorect way so the self align.... great ! take 45 second to noch for me... hows he doing?
ps if the end of the arrow gets a pencil cut it align with the reverse cut it the nock itself :-\ perhaps he should learn from an instructor.... we do 16 arrows an hour (round fletching table)
@@harleyme3163 🧐🧐🧐
@@harleyme3163 in english por favor
@@mat_in_texasop😊
Sounds like a great idea and cheaper than the $300 + dollar spine finder pro tool.
I use this basic method on my lathe. I made 2 buttons that the points will go into. I put a point in each end of the arrow and put it between centers and turn the tail stop in to bend the arrow. When it bends I mark the highest spot. Then I loosen the arrow and put that mark up. Then press it again. If the mark goes to the top then that arrow is done. I check each one at least twice. I have never had an arrow bend in different directions. It bends the same spot every time. Sometimes they bend down and i cant mark it so I turn it 180 and bend it again. It will bend up and I can mark the top. Can do a dozen in 5 minutes easy. I also found if I bend one a little or a lot the direction stays
the same. This method works good for me. No issues or nock tuning needed.
That’s a great way to do it. Having something as precise as a lathe could only make this method even more accurate.
@@mat_in_texas not sure its any better than a wood clamp. But its probably easier because it doesn’t move around. Its amazing how consistent the arrows bend to the same exact spot. I just did a batch of victories that are spine aligned from the factory. Every dozen I do has at least 2 that doesn’t match their marks. I put my new marks on them and they shoot good. MFJJ said he finds a few victories that dont line up also. Wonder how they find the spine at the factory. Bending between centers has been fast and easy and accurate for me. It just makes sense that when the arrow is released the string pushing the nock against the weight of the tip is going to bend the arrow. Its bending it from both ends just like this method of finding the spine. Now all you need to do is experiment with where you want the spine to be when on the bow. I have played around with it a lot. I found weak side up is best for me. But they shoot good in any position as long as they are all in the same alignment. You can definitely get you bow too shoot bullet holes by rotating the arrow to different spots instead of moving the cams or arrow rest. Archery is full of rabbit holes to fall into. Ultimately good form and practice is the best hole to fall into.
What arrows and what spine have you been testing?
Cheers Mat for your generous help 🙏
The explanation is that you are at the same distance for every test. Try it at different distances and you might see a different result. The window of "forgiveness" will seem much smaller when you bare shaft multiple distances at once.
You are absolutely correct. This was a simple demonstration to show the starting point. After this, there are many ways to dial in a tune and stepping back is probably the next step.
It's called Puring. Any avid golfer knows the goal of spine tuning their golf shafts is to find the most stable orientation to ensure the shaft bends on a neutral axis. That little jig you built is a game changer. You ought to patent it and market it. Google SST Puring and you'll see how important it to locate the spine and orientate the shaft to the optimum orientation an bend consistently.
It’s funny to me how many people that use carbon in other industries have commented about similar methods used to find consistency. Confirms on headed the right direction.
Mst in Texas. This is the second video of yours that I watched. It make sense. Can't wait try it out. Thanks a lot
I hope it helps!
I used to build custom fishing rods. Finding the spine is important for proper mounting of line guides. Spining is important because if the rod is spined improperly the cast will not go where the fisherperson has aimed. When I shot archery in the 70s IIRC my mentor/pro always spined my X-7 Easton's by somehow pressing down on the middle of the shaft which was mounted on rollers. He straightened my arrows that way also. That is all I remember about that.
Dude..... scientific reasoning, tested and proven results = facts in my book....... Im going to buy one of those clamp things tonight, I've spent so much time nock tuning in the past. Where have you been for the past x amount of years lol... Thanks for the video.
Glad I could help, let me know how it works out for you.
The reason you were able to add that much weight is because you added it as insert weight. From my experience, as you add insert weight, it effectively shortens the bendinging portion of the arrow, creating a stiffer dynamic spine.
You are 100% correct! I was gonna make a follow up video that will include that info.
@@mat_in_texas Heavier inserts would have the same effect on spine as heavier points; the consensus on that it it weakens dynamic spine as the arrow absorbs more energy thus flexes more. Comment?
@@davida.4933 yes, but if you’re putting weight behind the insert, you’re shortening how much of the arrow is actually flexing because it now has a chunk of metal up there. So in essence, it does shorten the arrow and stiffness of the spine
Excellent Explanation !!!
I use the same principle, but since I have access to a lathe, I just put the shaft, between 2 centers, one in the chuck, and one in the tail stock, and dial in the tail stock, just enough to flex the arrow, same results, perfect every time !
Great content. Thank you for sharing
Dang Brotha, best tip I’ve tried so far. Thanks for sharing, and shaving some time off nock tuning the alternative way😎😇🙏Kudos 🏹🏹👍👍
You’re welcome
This is the same idea as they do for golf club shafts when they pure them. They vibrate the shafts and see which way they want to flex. Then they assemble the club and align that bend point inline with the club face. I’ve been trying to figure out how do do this easily with arrow shafts. I think this is it.
I hope it does the trick for you
Just followed this method today... it all out works!
Dude! I’m glad it helps. That’s all I’m trying to do.
They are different arrows but with the different weights on the front can actually make the actual spines alot closer
That is very interesting. Thank you , I instantly start with my new arrows.
Good luck!
Great video! 👍🏻 saves alot of time. Years ago I did the soapy water method. Pretty much the idea is that the spine of the arrow will rotate downward sinking towards the bottom. I wasn’t very consistent with being able to mark it since it was all wet. Will be doing this next. 🎯
Thank you for the info. I'll try it when I get bow back from the shop with my new arrows that are not fletch. I'll be following for more info.
Very interesting approach.
This makes a ton of sense! Thank you for sharing.
Glad it was helpful!
Fascinating! Thanks for sharing - this makes a lot of sense!
Good info. Know what I’ll be trying.
Okay, sorry to be against the grain here. However, I used same clamp, use a micrometer to mark dimple spots and an automatic center punch.
Victory 300 spine XV’s. Ethics 225 SS milled inserts and field points, I squared each end with arrow square tool. I marked and labeled point/insert combo nock/tip not to confused them. I would get great results at first, until i turned the insert/FP 180 degrees. Then the ‘weak side’ would rotate opposite side from previous result.
This test is only as accurate as your clamp,arrow specs, and components, which none of them I used were cheap junk. Try it for yourself. However, I did not have luck.
That’s interesting 🤔
I’m sorry it didn’t work out though. Its been such a reliable way for me to set up my arrows.
Glad to see you on TH-cam I got banned from Instagram years ago lol
I hang bamboo arrows between 2 nails, with a 2lb weight
Mark an average point where you can get most of the batch to meet (because they will always bend more on one side), cut the nock to align the stiff side to the bow. (You can rotate the shaft to get the bow side spine consistent)
I don't bother with carbons, but if I was pushing beyond 50 meters on a target bow, I might try it.
I had no idea buying my first traditional bow that it was going to become the most nerdy hobby that I embarked on but I'm absolutely into it ... Just sad I didn't know all this before buying my setup yesterday because I would have had a lot more input! I had the the shop set my arrows and hand me the bow and I went straight to the targets lol
You have to start somewhere, but you’ll quickly start seeing ways to improve yourself and your gear
I’m just sad that you think it’s nerdy! ???! Shoot often,don’t aim
pick a spot and loose the arrow
Do not think about it. Before you know it you’ll be hitting where you’re looking! When that happens you can “start to aim”and really get accurate
If you grew up shooting a slingshot the process will be much easier. Good luck and be proud of yourself as you continue to improve!!
@@MichaelLakota-vc4tk thx Mike. Definitely prefer instinctive shooting. I tried 3 under and split finger and immediately preferred Split. Idk why anyone would prefer to pull the string in a less mechanically advantageous spot.
@@drewmorg. split finger was my favorite way also 😃
@@drewmorg. also number one thing to remember is to follow through the shot! That’s probably the most important thing you need to do
Thanks for sharing this. It's a big help.
No problem, just trying to share the little bit of knowledge I have 😉
This technique would go hand in hand with FOBs or Zinger Fletching.
Good video! Ive been using this same process since the mid-90's when the skinny little beman and AFC carbons started getting popular, because it was too hard to "float" them the way I could with aluminum arrows.
Again good video!
The thing that’s surprising me the most is how many people say they been using this method for years and in your case decades. It’s such a simple process, how has this not become a common practice in the industry?
@@mat_in_texas I agree, I think the reason is, is that people who are predominant in our industry have found what "works for them" and it makes it the old "my way or the highway" thought process... and people who are following their favorite 'star' figures that if it works for them, it's the only way also...
I started floating arrows back in the 80's, after finding I was getting "flyers" out of certain arrows.. a friend of mine turned me on to it.. (although for different reasons) it made sense, because when I built cedar shafts, I would index off of the "straight grain" , but would use a spine tester on both sides of the straight grain, a put what ever side was slightly stiffer nocked out...
When the bemans and afc's first came out, they were super skinny, and it just made it harder to do... I honestly don't remember who told me about flexing them, but it worked and ive done it ever since..
Sry, that was pretty long winded...
Don’t get me wrong, I like learning the intricacies of the sport. But… Most of us average guys do not need to get lost in the weeds on some of this tuning stuff because we’re not trying to pick up one or two points to win a national championship. I really think there needs to be a focus on basic set ups, simple things (like this bend test) that get guys headed in the right direction, that does not require hours and hours of tinkering with your stuff just to get a single set of arrows to shoot straight. Then find out you have to start the entire process over if you change anything with your setup.
@@mat_in_texas I agree! When I first started in archery.. 40 something years ago 😳
I, for the most part HAD to tinker, not that I'm complaining at all, but there were no video platforms to show how certain things were done... more people should probably give out their little "tricks" so that the new/beginner archer has a set up in the process... I've been putting a lot of "how to" videos on my channel, but not geared towards tuning and setup.. maybe I will.. 🤷
Well done!
Thanks, glad you enjoyed it
Would this work on a FMJ or would the aluminum prevent a consistent bend?
@@RMC2021 I haven’t tried it on FMJ’s. I would be interesting to figure out if the aluminum changes the results.
Hi. It's the first time I watch your video. I've design a similar device to do the bending test like you do, but I put my device verticaly to cancel the action of gravity on the center of the shaft. I found that vertically, the results were different and more consistent than placing the device horizontally.
Never thought about it that way, great idea!
Wouldn’t think gravity would have an impact but what the heck,take it out of the equation 😊
Good idea, keeps the arrow from sagging a bit then that starting the bend direction. On expensive arrows that could be a difference maker.
@rijodel I was having trouble with a couple new shafts and your comment about having it vertical came to mind, gave it a try and holy cow! It works. Definitely makes a difference
I ended up doing it vertically as well. Any arrow that is borderline in the flex direction can be influenced by gravity, as I’ve witnessed. After bend testing I went through and shot paper. They were all consistent bullet holes and much faster than nock tuning.
I normally do the bend test, mark the weak side. Ratate the arrow numerous times without checking. Then do the test again. 98% of the time i will get exactly same side. Better to do more than two spins
Yup, it’s super consistent for me too
Shooting the arrow so close to the paper will not reveal issues. You need to be able much further back
I’ve been using this same flex testing method for years. After countless dozens of arrows, I’ve yet to find a single shaft that nock tuning impoved after the flex test.
That’s great to hear. What do you use to flex the arrows?
@@mat_in_texas a wood working clamp similar in design to yours. I will add that the dimples that the tips go in have to be in the same spot on either end. If not, your not going to get good results.
looks like a good way to "tune" poorly matched/spined arrows, (manufacturing "matched" all carbon shafts is inherently difficult) ,, You are marking the stiff side of the shaft.. back when carbon arrows first came out you could look at the end and clearly see one side was "thicker".ie the hole/bore of the shaft was not centered, maybe you still can?? AFC
s were tough to get shooting as well as aluminum without some type of matching....The "beman" was not like this, they were a 2 part shaft, it had 2 seams opposite each other. ., I think i was probably the first to win a compound target nationals with carbon arrows back in 1990 (NFAA field nationals and PAA outdoor target nationals ) The beman had a good stiff nock but the shafts were easily damaged (i went through 6 dozen shafts that yr) .& did not require anything other than paper tuning to get them to group great. Easton bought them out a yr or 2 later. Easton overcame the centering (spine) problem by using a small aluminum shaft core. I'm sure this "bend" tuning would have made the other arrow all carbon arrow shafts competitive when combined with weight matching, Wish this info was available back then!! (The entire shaft weight is what is important, not just the point)... Thanks for the video... . .... . .
Haven't tried but read you can float arrows to find the carbon seam.I just pay the 2.50 a arrow to have them spine aligned.
Which method of spine alignment are you using? Is it proving to be effective?
Bend tested my crossbow bolts. Now I need to determine which way to have the bend go when I shoot. I think the bend direction should be away from the rail, so the flex is not pushing my bolt bend into the rail.
I’ve never shot cross bows, but that reasoning sounds good. You could fletch 3 each (up and down) and compare to see if one way seems to group better
I do it same way but use a bow press and it works absolutely great video thanks funny thing people don't believe me
The guy that showed me how to do this initially also used his bow press. Unfortunately, I don’t have my own….yet
Good idea :) Will check this out.
Please do!
I’de feel happier if the bar clamp was oriented vertically. This would eliminate any gravity induced “pre-bend” tendency.
Go watch my follow up video
The shop didnt help you!!! Wow.
They wouldnt get me money I know that.
Great content, Thanks
Customer service wasn’t really their thing….
I have a similar clamp but mine has too much play in it so checking my arrows was unsuccessful. I tried it with the clamp horizontal and vertical with different results for each.
To be fair, nock tuning actually shows what is happening when the arrow is fired from the bow.
If this is out of square, even in the slightest, you will get a false reading.
Nothing here is really precision gear.
To prove your point I think you should turn your nocks randomly and shoot with the heavy points again, I’ll bet you will get the same results. As long as your center shot is the same it doesn’t matter how much weight you have on the tip, that arrow will snake right through that hole in the paper I guarantee it
Fair point, that gives me an excuse to make another video.
Dude do what?
When you turned the arrow, it flexed same direction each time.
I was doing it fairly quick due to the time limitations on Instagram (that’s where I originally posted it)
I tried the bend test with 'spine aligned' Victory RIP shafts, only about 50% of them lined with the factory spine align mark. Not sure what that says about the whole marketing concept of 'spine aligned' arrows
I think it’s bogus. I doubt they’re testing each arrow individually, and it’s probably being done as a batch, which I have no idea how it could be accurate at that point.
Makes sense just from a common sense standpoint. If youve ever built a fishing rod, step one is finding the spine of your rod blank. This is done by flexing the blank so it naturally shows its weakest side while bending.
Arrow construction is not much different, and similarly you are looking for the same type of bend point.
Great comparison, very similar concept
@@mat_in_texas thanks, and great work on the video.
Good that you’re thinking and tinkering. However, explanation is going to confuse people. Nock tuning is dynamic spine test and will not necessarily be aligned exactly as your first test which is more of a static spine test. You really need to do both with each arrow. Interesting though
Go ahead and give me an detailed definition of dynamic spine and static spine…
@@mat_in_texas static- stationary…… dynamic- with movement. Dynamic is shooting out of bow…. There is no restriction on the point end. I do both. Doesn’t always perfectly align together ( in other words the flex of the arrow will not always be least with the static spine mark pointed up
I’m not trying to find where it bends least, I’m trying to find where it bends the most consistent and then aligning that with the direction the bow is trying to bend the arrow, which, with a compound bow is down.
@@mat_in_texas 👍
Nice video. I would have liked to seen you take a couple of tuned arrows and turned the nocks a few degrees to see the differences when shot through paper.
I’ll have to try that and see what the results are
@@mat_in_texas we’re waiting…:)
@@BRBarry I’ve got another video about ready to go, but the one you want is gonna be a while. I’ll be out of town for work for a bit.
Very interesting, I like easy processes of your press bending the arrow. I do similar with a spine indicator but for some reason I put the stiffest part of the spine up. So I think its opposite of your set up. Don't stock factory spine aligned arrows come with the spine mark up? Now I have to test some of my factory made spine aligned arrows and make sure what is going on there. Some day I will get a bar press like that and check it out. Thanks for the great video.
I haven’t played with factory spine aligned arrows much. A buddy of mine shoots Victory and when he put his arrows through this test, two or three are usually off from the factory markings. This is quick enough to run through a dozen and double check really easy
@@mat_in_texas Yes, I too have found the Victory spine aligned arrows to be close but not perfectly aligned. Like this batch I just checked looked like the spine was all 90 degrees off so they would be good for re curve but 90 degrees off for compound boaw.
@@mat_in_texas I checked the batch of Vicortory VAP 400 elites that I have and most were all 90 degrees so that if on a re-curve bow and the odd fletch was out to the side of the bow the spine would be set to be the same. So maybe the 400 elites are factory set for a recurve bow. But yes a lot of factory spines that advertise spine aligned may not be very aligned
Ultimately it might matter what the spine orientation is for an optimal setup, but the most important thing is that the arrows are doing the SAME thing every time.
The spine orientation to the bow might be important, but all the arrows spined the same direction is MORE important.
That said, I don't bother doing this with carbons, natural material bamoo and wood, yes.
Great video and very informative. I do have a question about something you mentioned early in your video about the shop setting your bow up and paper tuning and then sending you on your way. As a tech I am curious what else you would have liked to have them do for you as a customer. I am always seeking to offer the best experience.
There’s a bit to the story, but it boils down to them not wanting to do anything after the initial purchase because I didn’t buy a flagship bow. They offered “tunes for life” but wouldn’t put any effort in. The initial loop and paper tune was fine, but as I improved my form and started making changes to my set up, they didn’t want to do what was needed. My bow needed to have the top hats switched, but they didn’t want to order them and then “tuned” my bow to some other arrow. Needless to say, he sold the business because he’d ran off most of his customers.
as a customer I would want them to take you through how the bow works and have the me shoot it a couple time especially if this is your first bow every guy thinks he can pull 70 out the gate.
At least a basic setup tune, then a retune after a few weeks of settling in the strings and getting used to to bow. If I buy a sight from you, I'd like you to offer to install it and set it up. Maybe not hold my hand to sight it in, but at least get it on the bow and all squared up. I suppose give some incentive to buy from you vs buying online. I'm looking at releases now. I'd much prefer to go to a shop and be able to try a few and buy what I like best compared to hoping I pick one I like online.
Ok, there was a lot of context missing. All of those things mentioned should be done for every shooter on every bow.
Dynamic spine vs static spine this only finds the static… I’ve tried the bend indexing and found it pretty random… have a arrow bend down turn the arrow bends down.. theoretically it makes sense just like floating them in water but till Tim gillingham does this I won’t (not a sounding like a fan boy) but Tim takes a very logical scientific approach and tests the shit out of everything
Have you done this method to find the weakest side of the arrow.... and then indexed the arrows to see if they were always opposite the "spine"?
I have a question sir. Your explaination suggested to mark the index when the bend is facing downward. I just a saw a video of some guy doing the same method but he marked in when the arrow are bending upward. Which one the correct one?
There is no correct direction, just make sure they are all the same, then adjust your sight.
I really wanted to get behind this, tried it out and just couldn't get consistent enough results with 3 different spine arrows. I flexed each arrow 6 or 8 times, and it flexed different ways each time. Great idea just not for me.
Which arrows do you have?
Mine kept bending in the same direction no matter which way I spun the shaft
Hmmm definitely going to try that method
It all makes sense to me
Report back with your results
@@mat_in_texas seeing as I’m working with short x-bow arrows/bolts,they weren’t long enough to flex 🤷🏼♂️ so I still have to paper tune with fletching-My system is too long and tedious to do unless you have a lot of time and patience. Let me know if you tried that method and your results 👍🏻
@@MichaelLakota-vc4tk oh yes, I’ve done that in the past. Long and tedious are the best words to describe it. I’ve found I essentially get the same result in a fraction of the time by indexing them by the bend test.
@@mat_in_texas I had a feeling it would. When I need to build more arrows I will order full length shafts,do the bend test then cut them down to size. Thanks for the info!
There's always one... Can this be done with aluminum, or am I missing something?
From my understanding, aluminum arrows don’t have a seam, so this really wouldn’t apply to them. You could always try and see how it works. Report back if you do.
@@mat_in_texas Thank you for the quick response! Will do.
So you’re using compression to spine align? Makes sense
My theory: the way it bends when compressed in the clamp is similar to the way it would initially bend when fired out of the bow.
Is this effectively a poormans spine finder?
Essentially. In theory the bend test and spine tester should produce similar results. Although in the real world, the arrow may not always bend exactly as expected after finding the spine on a spine tester.
I did the same thing except I used my lathe. The dozen arrows had already been nock tuned so I wound up with marks for nock tuning and bend tuning on the same set of arrows. I then shot them thru paper and the nock tuned arrows gave better results thru paper. You are right bending the arrows is much faster and I really wished it could replace nock tuning. But in the end I went with my nock tuned arrows because I was shooting fixed broadheads and they flew good.
I’m assuming you had nock tuned first and had marked them accordingly. So after you did the bend test, were all your nock tune marks oriented in about the same direction?
@@mat_in_texas Sadly no. They were random. Doesn't really make sense to me but that is what I found.
@@johnsparkman2872 interesting….🧐
I have a question in regards to the pipe clamp set-up. Does it make a difference in the way the arrow bends if the dimple in the end clamps aren't in the same location to each other? Not that one end is lower,higher, or offset to the other.
I don’t have any definitive proof to say so, but I would assume it would have some sort of an effect. In theory, you want it to compress the two ends in a straight line to each other for it to produce the best results.
I think I love you.
😂 thanks…..I think
@@mat_in_texas 🤣 If only Id’ve known this technique 3 weeks ago, I’d still have hair.
Your arrow did not bend consistently each time you turned it............ ...
You’re not wrong, this video was mostly explaining why the process works, I have a couple other videos where I demonstrate how to do the Bend test in more detail and get the best results out of the arrows. I encourage you to go watch a couple of those.
@@mat_in_texas Thanks. I was intrigued and the explanation makes sense, and then I saw that and was like wait a second. I was watching a Ranch Fairy video about nock tuning and he said he'd drive himself crazy trying to test the bend on an arrow, but it seems like it would be a lot easier and faster to test than shooting a bunch of arrows and using your best judgement on how they land
@@heavyglassglass ya, this process has worked out really well for me. It’s simple and effective.
Where did you get your bar clamp at???
Home Depot bar clamp. He posted in earlier comment.
I'm not set up to tune my bow at home, so once I flex tune my arrows do I take them all into the shop and have them tune my bow for every arrow or just one from the group?
Thank you so much!
Dig the bracelet by the way!
After I get them flexed and marked/indexed, I just pick one of the shafts and designate it as the bareshaft and it will stay a bareshaft for tuning.
@@mat_in_texas thank you for taking the time to reply, I really appreciate it
Have you nock tuned for accuracy over shooting them through paper?
I tried this, but my arrows only bend up. Any suggestions?
Even when you twist them, they still bend up every time?
@@mat_in_texas Sorry. I should have clarified. haha. They only bent one direction, upwards. So if I took them out, and put them in a different face side up, they still bent upwards.
However, I fixed my problem. I didn't put in a filed point on either end.... once I did this, I was able to get consistent bend points and find the weak point.
Thanks for the video! Great trick! I will be finishing my arrows over the next few days.
@@erwinjung7475 i’m glad you got it figured out! It has proven to be very consistent for me. I hope it’s the same for you.
So I'm trying to apply this method to crossbow tuning. I started paper tuning my crossbows with fletchings on. It works pretty well but because you're limited to the three positions of the fletching, there is variability error to arrow even if they're more consistent shot to shot with the same arrow.
If you bear shaft across both bowl through paper, it's always tail high. Because of the way it comes off the rails I think. So after spine matching them all, do you have any guesses as to what direction would be best when shooting out of crossbow, stiff side up or stiff side down?
🤷♂️ no idea, never shot a cross bow
What about traditional bows?
Love to help you out with that, but I shoot a Ravin. No rail
Shoot further back like 10 -15 yards and see what you get.
all your doing is spine aligning your arrows knock tuning is the same idea just without any additional tools
You are absolutely correct, this is a quick and simple way to spine align the arrows, and then orient them so that the arrows are not fighting the bow
Thanks for the tips. What kind of press is that again?
Just a bar clamp from Home Depot
How did you come to the conclusion that the bow wants to bend the arrow down at 180°? Honest question. I am a spine indexing proponent and have always wondered in which position the spine would fly best, but have never spent the time to test.
Honestly, I don’t have any proof of it. That’s just what I’ve gathered from watching other videos by professionals and reading articles about archer Paradox in compound bows.
?? what side is actually the weak/strong side flex in or flex out ? and does it matter what way you mark and fletch if you are consitent Thanks
The direction the arrow bends is the weak side, so when I mark the top, in theory, I’m marking the stiff side, and that’s the side I put up when I fletch. But like you said, the biggest thing is that they are all consistent.
I made this tool to a t, and my arrows keep bending in the same direction (360 degrees around) no matter which way I spin the shaft
I bet if the holes you drilled are not perfectly even on each side as well as any slop in the clamp itself, will put tension in an un-square direction, over powering the spine and pushing it in one direction no matter how you rotate it.
@@BRBarry I measured
@@mojoe8005 what kind of arrows?
Maybe you have such perfect arrows it’s having a hard time figuring out which way the weak side is?
There is a way that is by far more easy to solve this issue and that is to buy arrows that have a stiffer spine than you think you need for your bow.
Way to many shoot arrows on the soft side and that makes it extremely more finnicky to tune everything for great arrow flights and great accuracy.
The reality is that people can shoot much stiffer spines than they think is perfect when using something like a drop away rest or similar.
And by shooting these stiff spines, you eliminate any need for nock tuning or bend testing the arrows as long as you buy quality arrows that are 0.003 or better and even most of the time for 0.006 arrows.
I bare shaft tune my setup and by using stiffer spines, does it not matter if I crank up the poundage a bit, use heavier points and other changes.
Way to many archers are hung up in the old days when a perfect spine was needed for the arrow to band free from the bow after releasing it.
With most arrow rests and compound bows today, this is not needed at all.
I have been shooting compound bows since 1986 and I have not been doing any nock tuning or bend testing for at least 20 years now.
Also when using a Whisker Biscuit for one of my hunting bows, this is not needed to do as well.
Buy at least one spine stiffer than you think you need and your life will be so extremely much better as an archer/bowhunter.
I have come to the conclusion that I need a stiffer spine, currently shooting 400’s. I was going to buy some 340’s but I was also considering just jumping up to a 300.
Not bad.
Should the arrow be leveled when you put it in the clamp? Would that affect results?
I don’t think it really matters, just as long as it’s being squeezed squarely to the clamp/press
Awesome idea, I'm gonna try. question So when you Fletch your arrow. Do you put your kock flitching directly on that pen mark?
Yes, I mark the top of the arrow when it bends straight down, then put my cock vane (top vane) on that mark.
Nice will do 👍
Matt what was the tool on each end again that compresses the arrow and where did you get it at, thanks for any Info.
It’s a Bessy bar clamp. You should be able to find it at any hardware store.
@@mat_in_texas what was the black bar on the bottom of it and is that the name of the clamps to ask for, thanks again for replying a lot of Guy won’t reply for some reason.
@@CharlieParsons-d7v no worries man. The actual bar is usually sold separately because you can get the in a lot of different lengths depending on your needs. I have the 48” bar/pipe. They’re threaded on one end to accept the end with the handle, then the other end slides on and can be adjusted as needed. And Bessy is the brand of the clamps. Any half decent shop should carry them or something very similar.
@@mat_in_texas Thanks Buddy for your info I Watch a lot of your Videos very interesting and very helpful for me.
What bar clamp is this ?
It’s just a simple pipe clamp. Harbor freight or any hardware store should have them. Lowes, Home Depot
@@58BowNut☝️
Just a bar clamp from Home Depot
What bar clamp was that?
Just a bar clamp from Home Depot
he knows very little, the nock has a pionted shpe cut in the back so the noch aligns straight with the pencil like cut you should have put on you arrow. been archery instructer for years, both traditional and modern.. no aligning needed, there self aligning.... just a bit ofhot melt and yer good :-\
🧐🧐🧐
Dude, you can't express your idea very clearly.
@@davida.4933 I agree ????????????
So on your test the bend being straight down. Does that put the weakest part of the spine facing straight up and the stiffest part of the spine facing 90 left or right?
I’ve never compared the way arrows flex in this situation versus an actual spine tester, but I believe they flex to the weakest side, so in my case, it’s weak down, stiff up
For trad, I align stiff side to the bow.
Can you do this if the arrows are already fletched?
Absolutely, and if you have enough vane clearance from your rest, you may not even need to re-fletch them. Just twist them to the correct orientation and go shoot ‘em
For compound bows, should the arrow always bend down on bottom vs bending up on top?
I argue that you would want them to flex down, but other guys that use this method and shoot target arrows off of a blade rest, say that you should have them bend up
@@mat_in_texas thank you for the info. I'll go and test it out.
This is NOT an accurate method of tuning arrows. Doesn’t matter. Nothing will beat actually shooting arrows , especially bare shaft and nock tuning. This is no better than floating arrows
Where can we purchase the press.
Any hardware store should carry it or something similar
Spine is blown way out of proportion on today’s bows.
Please expand on your experience
@@mat_in_texas my experience is when my bow is in a really good place for tune and a forgiving speed in the 280s range I don’t get nearly as much change in barehafts when nock tuning. (Assuming you’ve got well built arrows with good spine consistency) In turn it’s very forgiving to different spines as well. My lift 33 will shoot 300 340 and 400 spine bare shafts at 30 yards with ease. I’ve found this to be the case with most bows in the past 7-8 years.
If your right on the edge of a good tune say you have perfect barehaft at 20 yards but requires a certain nock setting I find them not to be forgiving to spine changes and nock tuning etc..
The tune still needs work if you’re having to dance around nocks to get a clean bareshaft.
Simply put in the past 10 years I’ve not had a bow that wouldn’t shoot 300-400 spine arrows out of the same tune setting with bareshafts at 25-30 yards. All of my bows have shot barehafts at 100 yards when my tune was complete. At that level forgiveness start shining.
@@jwild5360 I wholeheartedly agree. Bows these days can be tuned to shoot just about any arrow. And the arrows themselves are getting better. The more expensive arrows definitely require less work to shoot better, this method is for us average guys that shoot average arrows. It’s just a simple way to get everything headed the same direction before applying your preferred tuning method.
I’m also a big fan of the bare shaft tune. But I definitely don’t have the skills to shoot out to 100 yards 😂 I would seriously love to see a video of that.
@@mat_in_texas well I posted my email and they removed it.
This is a noob question, will this work also with recurve and barebow setup? Or more likely for compound only..
I have very little experience with the trad stuff, but I think it would. You’d want to orient the bend to the left or right though, vs down with a compound
@@mat_in_texas thought that much because of the plunger, vesus the compound which flexes up and down. Thank you. 😊
@@mat_in_texas with you minimize errors and like you said, adds more forgiveness. 👍
@@mykrojasorient the bend towards the riser. In other words, you want the bend going to the right for a right handed bow.
@@gsnicholas8522 copy that. will be giving this a try. appreciate it. :)
Yea that 5 minutes to nock tune is terrible
If you can nock tune a couple dozen arrows in 5 mins, I’d love to learn your methods. Please share.
A fan of the channel.
Not a fan of the portrait video.
Sorry man.
Thank you for watching! Ya, this was my first video I put up and was a compilation of Instagram videos. I never intended on putting this on TH-cam when I was filming it.
@@mat_in_texas good stuff all the same. Sorry if I’m being a male Karen. Really want you to thrive brother.