Very valuable for tuning for fixed blades. Screw on a fixed blade head and shoot it at 30-40 yards and then rotate the nock and I bet you'll see a difference in impact.
I nock tuned last year and got great fixed broadhead flight out to 110 yards. 528 grain arrow. rx-3 29.5" draw. I think it helps prevent broadhead planning. This year I'll be going heavier (580grains) for Roosevelt elk. Thank you for all the knowledge!
100% agree. I just started paper bare shaft tuning a new bow and had chronic 3/4 inch right tears. RH shooter and still had 1/4 inch right tears with the rest out of spec to the left and the cable guard rotated full right. It never dawned on me that my one bare shaft that I was using as a reference might have a nock tune problem. I was just clicking it on the same way (shaft sticker up). Multiple tip weights/grip styles etc couldnt improve it from there. After 4 or so hours and coming to the conclusion that I needed to get the cams shimmed, I remembered a Ranch Fairy vid and put the arrow on upside down - instant bullet hole. I then put the rest back to arrow parallel to riser and cable guard rotated back to the middle - another bullet hole. Then started to rotate in smaller increments and found a position where the bow would even tolerate a less strict grip and a bit of sloppy form and still shoot bullet holes. One of those head shaking moments and a real lesson learned. Hadn't ever wanted to get into custom arrow building but now it seems 100% necessary given that my nock tuned bare shaft will in no way represent the rest of my 'bought complete' arrows.
Yup,. I started Nock Tuning all My New FLETCHED Arrows, after watching, the Ranch Fairy more than, 5 years ago and IT just,.. "Works" ! I Fletch ALL arrows, ( LIGHT colored Vanes ) , then, Nock Tune and Mark the Cock Vanes with, small Arrows ^^^ Use 3, 2.7, 2.88 or, 3 inch Vanes ( X .500 Tall ) w/ 3* Helical to, Steer B -H's,.. IT's NOT,.. "Rocket Science" Put some FACTS in Front of arrow ( 40 - 50 grains + insert ) for, good FOC, and Elk,.. Penetration !
The machine measures static spine. Nock tuning allows you to identify the dynamic spine of the arrow under load. This (theoretically) will generate more consistent flight because that is how the arrow behaves in the air versus rolling on a machine. Thanks for the vid!!
I Fletch ALL SAME Color ( usually a bright, Light color ) then Nock Tune ( index nock, to Vanes ) the Fletched Arrows, to Find the correct Spine / Accuracy Node for EACH arrow, thru Paper at, 15- 20 Yards then, Mark the Cock Vane with, 2 up arrows ^ ^ ! Learned this from,.. Ranch Fairy,.. 5-6 years ago and, IT,. "Works" !! I use Medium weight Arrows, 3 Degrees of, Helical, with, some FOC, but I'm NOT going Crazy with it, as I want to shoot to at Least, 60 Yards with Good, FLAT arrow, Flight !
@@douglash.8862Been shooting over 25 years and I’m still seeking perfection but I think it may be more important to paper tune the bare shaft at 7 yards that it would be at 20 at least to start I want the arrow coming directly out of my bow as straight as possible And then back up to see how the flight looks at 15 or 20 yards as a starting spot who knows what else will learn as guys keep trying to get the perfect flight
@@douglash.8862Been shooting over 25 years and I’m still seeking perfection but I think it may be more important to paper tune the bare shaft at 7 yards that it would be at 20 at least to start I want the arrow coming directly out of my bow as straight as possible And then back up to see how the flight looks at 15 or 20 yards as a starting spot who knows what else will learn as guys keep trying to get the perfect flight
When bare shaft and nock tuning I always wrap electrical tape on the shaft where the vanes will go to mimic the weight. I've noticed it makes a difference in the way the shaft flexes adding that 20 grains to the tail of the arrow.
I an okay shooter I started doing this last year and can't believe how much better my groups got like you did I shot a bare shaft at 40 yards and it flys true I will fetch arrows till in do this part great video thanks
It absolutely works! I bare shaft nock tuned my arrow by shooting it through paper until i got as close to a bullet hole as possible, fletched my arrows and then papertuned again, little tweaks made, and then went to the range, my striker v2 braudheads grouped with my fieldpoints out to 80yards. Takes time but is absolutely worth it
I shoot easton axis 5mm 340 spine, with striker v2 125gr braudheads. Total weight 454gr, bowtech reign 7 at 72lbs, 29’ draw, i live in Africa and i hunt all plains game with this setup, most important thing about africa is to shoot fixed blades, as they perform better with penetration and quartering shots.
It matters for fixed blades, I 100% tested it myself. It's a very eye-opening experience. I've even got a couple arrows that I just can't get to fly well with my fixed blades but the other 5 I tested and nock tuned fly great. I did it all with a fletched arrows and I just mark which vane needs to be up.
I been nock turning and marking shafts since 2007 with ACCs through paper as well as Axis and FMJs even as they are advertised 360° spine with there carbon buildup process or rotate nock on those arrows that consistently fly outside the group to put into the group but what nock tuning does is make a forgiving arrow that hides your mistakes.
Two months later I tried this, the bow was tuned shooting older bare shaft out to 30. The arrows were X Impact 250 spine 504 grains. This worked, only one took more than a slight adjustment of tuning for 6. These are my broad head arrows for elk season. Thanks for the info.
It is a bit tedious but last year when I was "working up a load" for my heavy arrow build, no matter what spine bare shaft I used, some would just not tune. I was pulling my hair out making adjustments to my rest and getting one to fly great, the next? Another tear. Once I started nock tuning I was able to get all of my bare shafts to shoot either a bullet hole or a very small hole. This saved a lot of bow adjustment time and then I made sharpy mark on each shaft and the nock so I would know if the nock rotated or not and then fletched them with zingers so I didn't have to monkey around with trying to align the jig with the nock and to keep them "spined" properly. It is well worth the process folks!!!
@@RanchFairy in Germany we have a saying that literally translates to: it’s like a door, you just have to go through... Sounds a little stupid in English but I totally get what you are saying 👍
Great no nonsense video. I have tried bare shaft nock tuning. It works, but takes a ton of time. Now I use 4 fletch and tune the arrows after fletching. That way I have 4 positions to attempt bullet holes. Works well so far. Suggested by the Ranch Fairy in one of his videos.
Havinh tested a fair amount of shafts for spine consistency(both across the shaft and the lot of shafts) Ive noticed that arrows that require a lot of fiddling with the nock to get bullet holes out of each shaft do not have good spine consistency. The best, most consistent shafts usually have a large range of nock positions that'll shoot a bullet hole, and in the positions it doesn't the tear is very small. The best shafts I've tested are no longer made, and the worst shafts are very popular.
Great Video! I spent a couple hours on practice range last Friday tuning my nocks before shooting the R-100 on Saturday and Sunday, in Harrisburg, IL. I am not sure if it did any good, but it gave me confidence that my tuned bow was shooting my arrows as best as possible. During practice, on occasion I would catch my arrows waggle left to right in flight and hit the target bag at an angle, keep turning the nock on each arrow to get a true flight and perpendicular angle into the target. It took a couple of hours. I focused on anchoring with the same hand angle, not torqueing the bow grip and consistent face pressure played a big role, before turning the nocks. So I tried to make consistent and comfortable shots that felt good.
I like the mugs on the website. I’m planning to nock tune, but am planning to strip my vanes and nock tune, then refletch. I guess I should nock tune every fletched arrow right away so that every shot, even before stripping vanes, is the best it can be.
Did you square the nock end of the shaft before starting this? It would be an interesting test if you didn't, take one of those bare shafts, square it, and see if your tune is still perfect when you realign your nock and shaft marks.
@@KowboyUSAI don’t even think we need to ask that question it’s seems so so obvious no? but more information on your own spine will help you and I decide
I tuned my bow with a fletched arrow. I then tuned it trough paper with bareshaft(just one arrow). I know can shoot 3" group at 80 yards with broadheads. Does it help? Sure, it can't hurt. Is it end all be all? Probably not.
This is why SAS (spine around shaft) and consistency arrow to arrow is important. You wouldn't shoot your rifle with 5 or 6 different loads and expect it to group. So you shouldn't with arrows.
After watching a ton of videos on bare shaft and nock tuning in general, it seems to me it makes sense to just nock tune once the arrows are fletched. Then rotating the nocks until each arrow shoots a good bullet hole multiple times. Now, as you said that is assuming you have good form and a tuned bow. The down side is, when you nock your arrows they might not always be in the same orientation when it comes to tail up down or sideways. But with today's drop away rests that does not seem to be much of an issue - technically anyway. As long as you have the nocks marked so you know which way to attach it to the string you should be good. Just my thought on this. I am getting some new arrows soon and plan to test this out myself. Very informative video still.
This problem is very known by olympic recurve shooters: they call it "spline". All arrows were splinded with different methods, I tried it with a spine measure machine from Bearpaw to look where the softest side of arrows is. And They flechted all her arrows so, that all have the same "SPLINE" probable on top oder bottom. Should be for better grouping. Probable has Jake K. more Info ?
Don’t even need to watch. Just fletched my second dozen arrows after learning all my bows throw shafts left/CCW, while all the off-the-rack arrows I’ve ever bought were right/CW. Initially took a dozen Axis 5mm Match arrows, knock tuned when bare, and fletched with a 2-degree left/CCW blazer vane, and my groups tightened up SIGNIFICANTLY. Second dozen were Easton Accucarbon 6.5’s. Similar result, darn near halved the size of my groups (basically went from shooting ‘pie plates’ at 60, to ‘fist sized’ groups. BOG change IMO!). Buying vanes in bulk, buying another two Bitz, and re-fletching EVERYTHING else (after a nock tune, of course).
I did this last year and it made a huge difference in groups at distance! Bothers me a little though...how do you know your bow is actually tuned? In the past i would get good hole with 1 arrow and move on to other methods. With this you tune to that first arrow but all others could have strange tear, so is bow really tuned? Or does it really even matter if all your arrows shoot a clean hole? I'm clearly overthinking this, but curious on thoughts.
You knock tune for each arrow. It also, helps to find your hunting/target arrows & practice arrows. Some may not be able to tune (Lemons). If they all or if it seems to be a trend among the dozen arrows are having a similar issue. It may be a bow or form issue.
Thanks for sharing this. Great tip and practical advice. I just started building my own arrows and I was concerned about spine indexing and how to do it accurately on a budget. Also wondered if it mattered inside 30 yards for whitetail. After seeing your video I'm thinking this process is more of a good idea to work towards over a necessity. If one of my arrows are off with broadheads then I'll try nock tuning my fletcher arrows. Does this sound like a good idea or am I off base? Thanks again!
I think you are over looking the most important part of the arrow, the nock. You are using an injection molded nock to interface with the inside tolerance of your shaft. Unless you verify that your nock slot is truely perpendicular with the centerline of the shaft you will have a variance in the launch angle from the string deflection. Take a nock from an arrow set up that you are happy with and put it in a troublesome arrow and see if it improves that arrow. Pin nock set ups and arrows with nock collars seem to be more reliable in the long run of the arrow life.
Why does it all have to be so frustratingly difficult?. I love hunting with a bow and really enjoy shooting my bow, but HUNTING with it is the “thing”. As if there weren’t already enough difficult things about bow hunting here’s another if you obsess over perfect flight (like most of us do). Most of us don’t have the time or setup for this perfection and most all “bow shops” I’ve ever been just want to sell you a new bow. If you’re not buying a new bow from them that year you’re just pestering them with trying to get help with a perfectly tuned setup and the ones I’ve been to I don’t think obsess over the perfection as much as me and most others on here.
This seems to make sense, but is the opposite of what I have heard literally everyone say. Since everyone tunes their bow based off of how the arrows fly, it makes sense that you would get the arrows tuned to fly best and most consistent first. They do depend on one another for sure, but seems like it could be a chicken or egg discussion.
I bare shaft. Mostly cause I enjoy it but I’m also trying to get every bit of energy I can even if this is tiny. But I do have some arrows that are way more dramatic
You can just take 2 feet of tape 2-3" wide, give or take. Shoot 3-6 bare shaft arrow at the center line (10-5 yards ish). Check for the ones that are not perfect arrow flight. Then, start turning knocks on those that fly wonky. This a version of 'French Tuning'. Repeat the process for the next 6 arrows. (1 dozen done)Then, paper tune if you want. It should go a little faster. PS Each archer must do it for his/her arrow/bow. We all are human & not a Hooter Shooters. We each have are minor differences' in the shot'.
The only hard part about this is that most targets don’t have perfectly uniform density. So when a shaft hits the target, it can kick an arrow one way or the other. That’s why I never go off of the direction the back of the arrow is kicked in the target. However, if the point of impact of the shaft is consistently in one direction, then this method sounds great!
@@InsideOutPrecision True, all target media is not the same. Strangely, the the set up is the TH-cam photo for the "Is your Sight Set to the TRUE Center of the Spot??" video. PS I just want to say: It is great the we are able to learn from each other. “In short, knowledge is useless if it isn’t shared.” - Chris Hardwick "Knowledge is useless if you don't share it," Michio Kaku
@@timl8302 for sure! In that video though I’m looking at the point of impact, not the way the arrows kick after they hit. You can have 3 arrows all hit left/right of the line and the nock end may kick differently, but the point at which they enter the target is what I look at! Cheers man, good convo
My shop help me wt paper tuning. And arrow tuning. When I bought my fmj.arrows. and they did not charge me any more money. And it took about a hour. I also bought my bow from them. I guess some shops will go that extra mile for there customers.
My personal experiences with the Bow Rack and the Endicot family has always been nothing short of spectacular. In the third week of August 2019 they took my bow and completely set it up and tuned it for my trip to Colorado. Not only is that the craziest time of year for them, the turn around was 2 days, and in time for the opener and my trip. This year I purchased a new V3, and not from them. Finding certain colors and being left handed was hard this year. I had a chance at one in Washington and called Lisa about what I should do. She said jump on it and they would still set it up for me as if I had purchased it from them. So I did, and the next weekend I had the bow rack install the works and set it up for me. They did this with one days notice and on a Saturday where at 10:00am there is a line out of the door. By 2:00pm I was headed back to the coast with a bow that was tuned to perfection. Again, this is just my personal experience with the Bow Rack and the Endicot family, but I can assure you while spending 4 hours there on that Saturday I saw 100 more customers leaving satisfied and happy with their experience as well.
I have never been to this shop (but follow the channel closely) but I know of people in my town that made the 6 hour one way drive to purchase bows and get them set up by this shop. So that should say something about this shop’s mentality of helping their customers
Like I said the shop I go to. People fly in from other countries. I just bought my new BOWTECH from them last week. And they were extremely good. My BOWTECH was shooting bullets out of the box.
This step is mandatory at my house lol. I also shoot 100yrds+ all the time. But what's a nock vane 😂 mine are all the same color. The mold like on my nock is my index!
What about arrows that are already spine aligned marked already. Recently bought some victory SS. Should I still nock tune or just fletch them since I they are already aligned from factory. 🤔
Sounds like it doesn't matter to nock tune with a bare shaft. When you rotated the nock on the bare shaft you had issues but not when fletched. Seems get a bullet hole with fletched arrows and your good.
Do aluminum arrows need to be nock tuned? I'm setting up some Easton 2315 shafts and no matter where I place the nock they seem to all shoot the same through paper. Is this common for aluminum? Thanks
Here's a question for you - after nock tuning, if fletching with a 3 degree helical, do you align the front (tip side) or the back(nock side) of the indicator vane with your mark?
Just curious did you take more then 1 shot per adjustment...i never tried nock tuning i might give it a shot on this new set of x impacts i normally just spine align then bareshaft 1 of them at 15yds
One thing you didn’t mention is the type of arrows you’re shooting are they match grade what’s the percentage of straightness on those arrows?? Without that information that’s a deep rabbit hole to go down
@@Canadaman4403 honestly you won’t see any difference in tuning between a .003 and .001 tolerance arrow. The position of the spine is far more critical
My application is primarily bowhunting out to 60 yards so you do not shoot match grade arrows? And do not .001 match grade arrows eliminate the spine being stronger on one side? I’m purchasing a new bow and going to new arrows and ….I’ve been labouring over should I buy the new 5.0 match grade or the regular 5.0 is it worth a price difference in your opinion? No Tac shooting for me even our local 3-D shoots are up to 60 yards max
@ match grade is just what Easton calls their .001 straightness tolerance. There is still a spine in match grade arrows just like any other. Easton claims their build process eliminated the stiff side of the arrow but if you put one on a spine tester you can clearly tell where the stiff side is. At 60 yds, you wont see any difference in the match grade arrows vs. the standard grade.
During your nock tuning process did you happen to change out the nock (keeping track of original nock orientation), and see if it was the same Bullet hole?
Difference between great and better is what it comes down to.... some people never stop striving to be better, some are satisfied with being okay. We now know which you are
No for compounds you want to use plastic vanes. Some people still 4in. or 5in. feathers on large diameter, heavy arrows for indoor competition because they're only shooting 20yds., but pretty much everyone uses plastic vanes with a compound these days
Still not sure how big if a difference it makes once the arrows are fletched. Might eliminate that occasional flyer, which i guess is worth the time when you're shooting for score!
I wondered this after nock tuning and I don’t have a spine tester to check for actual spine location so I just nocked tuned and got all arrows hitting a bullet hole. This was a great video explaining that and your findings.
@@InsideOutPrecision someone once told me that nocks, even being new and same brand and type , can react differently off the string. Ive never tested. Just wondering if you have
Cool! I dont meet to many people that tune after the fletching besides me. You can bare shaft tune but once the fletching are on there you may have adjust the nock again. So for me personally i wait tell the fletchings are on the arrow.
And.....if you're shot execution isn't damn near perfect...... this is about worthless as well. I typically nock tune outside and it's amazing how a badly executed shot will really whip the arrow. It's really visible. I'm also not how much it helps for field tips but I do know every little bit helps with adult broadheads!
Lol the thick stuff that available had a horrible cut and was just as long as it was wide after one wash. The stuff we picked is really nice. Durable but not heavy.
One bullet hole means nothing. You’re human and your form isn’t exactly the same every time. Shoot a few more with the nock turned wrong and you’ll get a bullet hole and vice versa. If you’re gonna use an average you need a dozen shots. I’ve nock tuned hundreds of arrows and very few have not shot good holes “on average.” Tune now/one arrow to a bullet hole and then shoot the rest and i bet regardless of nock orientation if your bow is tuned you get good holes with darn near every arrow.
Yeah it’s definitely not for newer shooters. But it’s wild to see how a bare shaft reacts off the rest differently just from orienting the spine differently
Me personally i wait tell the fletchings are on the arrow. Ive noticed that bare shaft tuning helps but once the fletchings are on i always have to adjust the nock again. So for me waiting until there fletched and then paper tuning by rotating the nock works wonders for me. Again i know bare shaft tuning is the thing right now. But i get the same results from doing it with the fletchings on instead of doing it twice.
Very valuable for tuning for fixed blades.
Screw on a fixed blade head and shoot it at 30-40 yards and then rotate the nock and I bet you'll see a difference in impact.
it isent vqaulehable give me your credit card information
@@rfweore3wdnohluirdflukjoih688do you have a learning disability?
I nock tuned last year and got great fixed broadhead flight out to 110 yards. 528 grain arrow. rx-3 29.5" draw. I think it helps prevent broadhead planning. This year I'll be going heavier (580grains) for Roosevelt elk. Thank you for all the knowledge!
I’m going 582 this year for the rosies myself
I would go 950 +
Shit, 999 grains at 115 yards 🙄
100% agree. I just started paper bare shaft tuning a new bow and had chronic 3/4 inch right tears. RH shooter and still had 1/4 inch right tears with the rest out of spec to the left and the cable guard rotated full right. It never dawned on me that my one bare shaft that I was using as a reference might have a nock tune problem. I was just clicking it on the same way (shaft sticker up). Multiple tip weights/grip styles etc couldnt improve it from there. After 4 or so hours and coming to the conclusion that I needed to get the cams shimmed, I remembered a Ranch Fairy vid and put the arrow on upside down - instant bullet hole. I then put the rest back to arrow parallel to riser and cable guard rotated back to the middle - another bullet hole. Then started to rotate in smaller increments and found a position where the bow would even tolerate a less strict grip and a bit of sloppy form and still shoot bullet holes. One of those head shaking moments and a real lesson learned. Hadn't ever wanted to get into custom arrow building but now it seems 100% necessary given that my nock tuned bare shaft will in no way represent the rest of my 'bought complete' arrows.
Yup,. I started Nock Tuning all My New FLETCHED Arrows, after watching, the Ranch Fairy more than, 5 years ago and IT just,.. "Works" !
I Fletch ALL arrows, ( LIGHT colored Vanes ) , then, Nock Tune and Mark the Cock Vanes with, small Arrows ^^^
Use 3, 2.7, 2.88 or, 3 inch Vanes ( X .500 Tall ) w/ 3* Helical to, Steer B -H's,.. IT's NOT,.. "Rocket Science"
Put some FACTS in Front of arrow ( 40 - 50 grains + insert ) for, good FOC, and Elk,.. Penetration !
The machine measures static spine. Nock tuning allows you to identify the dynamic spine of the arrow under load. This (theoretically) will generate more consistent flight because that is how the arrow behaves in the air versus rolling on a machine. Thanks for the vid!!
I Fletch ALL SAME Color ( usually a bright, Light color ) then Nock Tune ( index nock, to Vanes ) the Fletched Arrows, to Find the correct Spine / Accuracy Node for EACH arrow, thru Paper at, 15- 20 Yards then, Mark the Cock Vane with, 2 up arrows ^ ^ !
Learned this from,.. Ranch Fairy,.. 5-6 years ago and, IT,. "Works" !!
I use Medium weight Arrows, 3 Degrees of, Helical, with, some FOC, but I'm NOT going Crazy with it, as I want to shoot to at Least, 60 Yards with Good, FLAT arrow, Flight !
@@douglash.8862Been shooting over 25 years and I’m still seeking perfection but I think it may be more important to paper tune the bare shaft at 7 yards that it would be at 20 at least to start I want the arrow coming directly out of my bow as straight as possible And then back up to see how the flight looks at 15 or 20 yards as a starting spot who knows what else will learn as guys keep trying to get the perfect flight
@@douglash.8862Been shooting over 25 years and I’m still seeking perfection but I think it may be more important to paper tune the bare shaft at 7 yards that it would be at 20 at least to start I want the arrow coming directly out of my bow as straight as possible And then back up to see how the flight looks at 15 or 20 yards as a starting spot who knows what else will learn as guys keep trying to get the perfect flight
When bare shaft and nock tuning I always wrap electrical tape on the shaft where the vanes will go to mimic the weight. I've noticed it makes a difference in the way the shaft flexes adding that 20 grains to the tail of the arrow.
Great idea thanks
I an okay shooter I started doing this last year and can't believe how much better my groups got like you did I shot a bare shaft at 40 yards and it flys true I will fetch arrows till in do this part great video thanks
It absolutely works! I bare shaft nock tuned my arrow by shooting it through paper until i got as close to a bullet hole as possible, fletched my arrows and then papertuned again, little tweaks made, and then went to the range, my striker v2 braudheads grouped with my fieldpoints out to 80yards. Takes time but is absolutely worth it
I shoot easton axis 5mm 340 spine, with striker v2 125gr braudheads. Total weight 454gr, bowtech reign 7 at 72lbs, 29’ draw, i live in Africa and i hunt all plains game with this setup, most important thing about africa is to shoot fixed blades, as they perform better with penetration and quartering shots.
Nock tuning has worked great for me, got my groups much tighter and arrows flying very consistently.
It matters for fixed blades, I 100% tested it myself. It's a very eye-opening experience. I've even got a couple arrows that I just can't get to fly well with my fixed blades but the other 5 I tested and nock tuned fly great. I did it all with a fletched arrows and I just mark which vane needs to be up.
I think it's a great idea. Especially for those people fortunate enough to be great shooters. AND for broad head set ups.
I been nock turning and marking shafts since 2007 with ACCs through paper as well as Axis and FMJs even as they are advertised 360° spine with there carbon buildup process or rotate nock on those arrows that consistently fly outside the group to put into the group but what nock tuning does is make a forgiving arrow that hides your mistakes.
Just did mine after buying some gold tip pierces and holy cow even at twenty yards I can notice how much truer the arrow flies
Two months later I tried this, the bow was tuned shooting older bare shaft out to 30. The arrows were X Impact 250 spine 504 grains. This worked, only one took more than a slight adjustment of tuning for 6. These are my broad head arrows for elk season. Thanks for the info.
It is a bit tedious but last year when I was "working up a load" for my heavy arrow build, no matter what spine bare shaft I used, some would just not tune. I was pulling my hair out making adjustments to my rest and getting one to fly great, the next? Another tear. Once I started nock tuning I was able to get all of my bare shafts to shoot either a bullet hole or a very small hole. This saved a lot of bow adjustment time and then I made sharpy mark on each shaft and the nock so I would know if the nock rotated or not and then fletched them with zingers so I didn't have to monkey around with trying to align the jig with the nock and to keep them "spined" properly. It is well worth the process folks!!!
Fantastic Video guys!
Oh it matters and it’s worth it!
Broadheads...fly
They starting to come around Ranch, slowly but surely they coming around.
I was just about to comment - so that crazy ranch fairy dude actually was on to something 😉
@@Umslopogas666 Just facts man.
Nock tuning makes arrows more consistent. There is no easy way.
The only way is through.
@@RanchFairy in Germany we have a saying that literally translates to: it’s like a door, you just have to go through... Sounds a little stupid in English but I totally get what you are saying 👍
Tim Gillingham has been teaching this for a while.
Great no nonsense video. I have tried bare shaft nock tuning. It works, but takes a ton of time. Now I use 4 fletch and tune the arrows after fletching. That way I have 4 positions to attempt bullet holes. Works well so far. Suggested by the Ranch Fairy in one of his videos.
Havinh tested a fair amount of shafts for spine consistency(both across the shaft and the lot of shafts) Ive noticed that arrows that require a lot of fiddling with the nock to get bullet holes out of each shaft do not have good spine consistency. The best, most consistent shafts usually have a large range of nock positions that'll shoot a bullet hole, and in the positions it doesn't the tear is very small. The best shafts I've tested are no longer made, and the worst shafts are very popular.
I believe that it does matter. I get tighter groups after I bare shaft nock tune
Great Video! I spent a couple hours on practice range last Friday tuning my nocks before shooting the R-100 on Saturday and Sunday, in Harrisburg, IL. I am not sure if it did any good, but it gave me confidence that my tuned bow was shooting my arrows as best as possible. During practice, on occasion I would catch my arrows waggle left to right in flight and hit the target bag at an angle, keep turning the nock on each arrow to get a true flight and perpendicular angle into the target. It took a couple of hours. I focused on anchoring with the same hand angle, not torqueing the bow grip and consistent face pressure played a big role, before turning the nocks. So I tried to make consistent and comfortable shots that felt good.
I like the mugs on the website.
I’m planning to nock tune, but am planning to strip my vanes and nock tune, then refletch. I guess I should nock tune every fletched arrow right away so that every shot, even before stripping vanes, is the best it can be.
Did you square the nock end of the shaft before starting this? It would be an interesting test if you didn't, take one of those bare shafts, square it, and see if your tune is still perfect when you realign your nock and shaft marks.
Very interesting. So would you now say spine tuning your arrows has no benefit? As the nock tuned arrows did not correlate with the spine tune?
That's what I was wondering.
@@KowboyUSAI don’t even think we need to ask that question it’s seems so so obvious no? but more information on your own spine will help you and I decide
I tuned my bow with a fletched arrow. I then tuned it trough paper with bareshaft(just one arrow). I know can shoot 3" group at 80 yards with broadheads.
Does it help? Sure, it can't hurt. Is it end all be all? Probably not.
This is why SAS (spine around shaft) and consistency arrow to arrow is important. You wouldn't shoot your rifle with 5 or 6 different loads and expect it to group. So you shouldn't with arrows.
I think spinning the arrow when gluing in the inserts is more of a help from what I’ve seen.
If you are shooting fixed blade broadheads this is absolutely crucial. I hunt deer with bow out to 80m and this is how I do it .
After watching a ton of videos on bare shaft and nock tuning in general, it seems to me it makes sense to just nock tune once the arrows are fletched. Then rotating the nocks until each arrow shoots a good bullet hole multiple times. Now, as you said that is assuming you have good form and a tuned bow. The down side is, when you nock your arrows they might not always be in the same orientation when it comes to tail up down or sideways. But with today's drop away rests that does not seem to be much of an issue - technically anyway. As long as you have the nocks marked so you know which way to attach it to the string you should be good. Just my thought on this. I am getting some new arrows soon and plan to test this out myself. Very informative video still.
Fletch six of them with the nock tuned and Fletch six of them randomly shoot groups at long range and see if it makes a difference.
This problem is very known by olympic recurve shooters: they call it "spline". All arrows were splinded with different methods, I tried it with a spine measure machine from Bearpaw to look where the softest side of arrows is. And They flechted all her arrows so, that all have the same "SPLINE" probable on top oder bottom. Should be for better grouping. Probable has Jake K. more Info ?
Right on bro. Arrow supposed to fly true and straight and flat at 20 yds . I notice a little arc at 40 yds
Don’t even need to watch. Just fletched my second dozen arrows after learning all my bows throw shafts left/CCW, while all the off-the-rack arrows I’ve ever bought were right/CW. Initially took a dozen Axis 5mm Match arrows, knock tuned when bare, and fletched with a 2-degree left/CCW blazer vane, and my groups tightened up SIGNIFICANTLY. Second dozen were Easton Accucarbon 6.5’s. Similar result, darn near halved the size of my groups (basically went from shooting ‘pie plates’ at 60, to ‘fist sized’ groups. BOG change IMO!). Buying vanes in bulk, buying another two Bitz, and re-fletching EVERYTHING else (after a nock tune, of course).
I did this last year and it made a huge difference in groups at distance! Bothers me a little though...how do you know your bow is actually tuned? In the past i would get good hole with 1 arrow and move on to other methods. With this you tune to that first arrow but all others could have strange tear, so is bow really tuned? Or does it really even matter if all your arrows shoot a clean hole? I'm clearly overthinking this, but curious on thoughts.
You knock tune for each arrow. It also, helps to find your hunting/target arrows & practice arrows. Some may not be able to tune (Lemons). If they all or if it seems to be a trend among the dozen arrows are having a similar issue. It may be a bow or form issue.
It was day an night with my single bevel broadheads the slick trick did good my two blade broadheads I had to nock tune
Thanks for sharing this. Great tip and practical advice. I just started building my own arrows and I was concerned about spine indexing and how to do it accurately on a budget. Also wondered if it mattered inside 30 yards for whitetail. After seeing your video I'm thinking this process is more of a good idea to work towards over a necessity. If one of my arrows are off with broadheads then I'll try nock tuning my fletcher arrows. Does this sound like a good idea or am I off base? Thanks again!
Been waiting for this lol
The thing of it is if it flies perfect without vanes it'll do perfect if you error in your shot
I think you are over looking the most important part of the arrow, the nock. You are using an injection molded nock to interface with the inside tolerance of your shaft. Unless you verify that your nock slot is truely perpendicular with the centerline of the shaft you will have a variance in the launch angle from the string deflection. Take a nock from an arrow set up that you are happy with and put it in a troublesome arrow and see if it improves that arrow. Pin nock set ups and arrows with nock collars seem to be more reliable in the long run of the arrow life.
Why does it all have to be so frustratingly difficult?. I love hunting with a bow and really enjoy shooting my bow, but HUNTING with it is the “thing”. As if there weren’t already enough difficult things about bow hunting here’s another if you obsess over perfect flight (like most of us do). Most of us don’t have the time or setup for this perfection and most all “bow shops” I’ve ever been just want to sell you a new bow. If you’re not buying a new bow from them that year you’re just pestering them with trying to get help with a perfectly tuned setup and the ones I’ve been to I don’t think obsess over the perfection as much as me and most others on here.
This is sooo true...which is why I have my own bowshop now, bit most bowshops don't even want to paper tune your bow unless you pester them
I always nock tune my bare shaft before I tune my bow. Otherwise you could be chasing your tail.
This seems to make sense, but is the opposite of what I have heard literally everyone say. Since everyone tunes their bow based off of how the arrows fly, it makes sense that you would get the arrows tuned to fly best and most consistent first. They do depend on one another for sure, but seems like it could be a chicken or egg discussion.
Where is the best orientation of the weak side of the arrow? Weak side down, up, towards the bow or away from the bow?
I bare shaft. Mostly cause I enjoy it but I’m also trying to get every bit of energy I can even if this is tiny. But I do have some arrows that are way more dramatic
Will you do a update on if the nock tuneing was worth it?
Have you ever tested this with arrows that the arrow manufacturer marks the arrow spine (Victory) for tears and consistency?
what happened to spine aligning?
You can just take 2 feet of tape 2-3" wide, give or take. Shoot 3-6 bare shaft arrow at the center line (10-5 yards ish). Check for the ones that are not perfect arrow flight. Then, start turning knocks on those that fly wonky. This a version of 'French Tuning'. Repeat the process for the next 6 arrows. (1 dozen done)Then, paper tune if you want. It should go a little faster. PS Each archer must do it for his/her arrow/bow. We all are human & not a Hooter Shooters. We each have are minor differences' in the shot'.
The only hard part about this is that most targets don’t have perfectly uniform density. So when a shaft hits the target, it can kick an arrow one way or the other. That’s why I never go off of the direction the back of the arrow is kicked in the target. However, if the point of impact of the shaft is consistently in one direction, then this method sounds great!
@@InsideOutPrecision True, all target media is not the same. Strangely, the the set up is the TH-cam photo for the "Is your Sight Set to the TRUE Center of the Spot??" video.
PS I just want to say: It is great the we are able to learn from each other.
“In short, knowledge is useless if it isn’t shared.”
- Chris Hardwick
"Knowledge is useless if you don't share it," Michio Kaku
@@timl8302 for sure! In that video though I’m looking at the point of impact, not the way the arrows kick after they hit. You can have 3 arrows all hit left/right of the line and the nock end may kick differently, but the point at which they enter the target is what I look at! Cheers man, good convo
My shop help me wt paper tuning. And arrow tuning. When I bought my fmj.arrows. and they did not charge me any more money. And it took about a hour. I also bought my bow from them. I guess some shops will go that extra mile for there customers.
My personal experiences with the Bow Rack and the Endicot family has always been nothing short of spectacular. In the third week of August 2019 they took my bow and completely set it up and tuned it for my trip to Colorado. Not only is that the craziest time of year for them, the turn around was 2 days, and in time for the opener and my trip. This year I purchased a new V3, and not from them. Finding certain colors and being left handed was hard this year. I had a chance at one in Washington and called Lisa about what I should do. She said jump on it and they would still set it up for me as if I had purchased it from them. So I did, and the next weekend I had the bow rack install the works and set it up for me. They did this with one days notice and on a Saturday where at 10:00am there is a line out of the door. By 2:00pm I was headed back to the coast with a bow that was tuned to perfection. Again, this is just my personal experience with the Bow Rack and the Endicot family, but I can assure you while spending 4 hours there on that Saturday I saw 100 more customers leaving satisfied and happy with their experience as well.
I have never been to this shop (but follow the channel closely) but I know of people in my town that made the 6 hour one way drive to purchase bows and get them set up by this shop. So that should say something about this shop’s mentality of helping their customers
Like I said the shop I go to. People fly in from other countries. I just bought my new BOWTECH from them last week. And they were extremely good. My BOWTECH was shooting bullets out of the box.
This step is mandatory at my house lol. I also shoot 100yrds+ all the time. But what's a nock vane 😂 mine are all the same color. The mold like on my nock is my index!
When you say odd vane along the stiff line, do you care if it's at the top or bottom?
What about arrows that are already spine aligned marked already. Recently bought some victory SS. Should I still nock tune or just fletch them since I they are already aligned from factory. 🤔
I’d check before building them. In my experience they’re not all the same
@@InsideOutPrecision thank you so much for replying👌
Did i hear correct? You didn't see a difference in turning the nock on fletched shafts after nock tuned bare shaft?
Sounds like it doesn't matter to nock tune with a bare shaft. When you rotated the nock on the bare shaft you had issues but not when fletched. Seems get a bullet hole with fletched arrows and your good.
Isn’t this the same thing as group tuning? I do this at 80 and it makes a MASSVIE difference even in fletched flight.
What arrow recommendation do you have for hunting deer furthest shot 40 yards 70 pound pse evo ntn at 28 inches shooting a four blade broadhead
@@philreo2620 I want a very durable arrow with those specs any recommendations
Check out the Victory VAP 300 spine, you can get them fairly cheap on EBay
Do aluminum arrows need to be nock tuned? I'm setting up some Easton 2315 shafts and no matter where I place the nock they seem to all shoot the same through paper. Is this common for aluminum? Thanks
Yeah there's no hard spine on aluminum arrows. Carbons do because of the way the carbon is weaved
Thanks for the quick reply. Keep the great videos coming,they are greatly appreciated!!!
Here's a question for you - after nock tuning, if fletching with a 3 degree helical, do you align the front (tip side) or the back(nock side) of the indicator vane with your mark?
The mark should line up with the middle of your vane
If you drew a line fro the mark to your nock, ideally it would cross the vane in middle
Cool thanks for replying
Just curious did you take more then 1 shot per adjustment...i never tried nock tuning i might give it a shot on this new set of x impacts i normally just spine align then bareshaft 1 of them at 15yds
No I shoot each one 3 or 4 times
Compare a nock tuned arrow with broadhead to one that isn’t and see what happens.
One thing you didn’t mention is the type of arrows you’re shooting are they match grade what’s the percentage of straightness on those arrows?? Without that information that’s a deep rabbit hole to go down
@@Canadaman4403 honestly you won’t see any difference in tuning between a .003 and .001 tolerance arrow. The position of the spine is far more critical
My application is primarily bowhunting out to 60 yards so you do not shoot match grade arrows? And do not .001 match grade arrows eliminate the spine being stronger on one side? I’m purchasing a new bow and going to new arrows and ….I’ve been labouring over should I buy the new 5.0 match grade or the regular 5.0 is it worth a price difference in your opinion? No Tac shooting for me even our local 3-D shoots are up to 60 yards max
@ match grade is just what Easton calls their .001 straightness tolerance. There is still a spine in match grade arrows just like any other. Easton claims their build process eliminated the stiff side of the arrow but if you put one on a spine tester you can clearly tell where the stiff side is. At 60 yds, you wont see any difference in the match grade arrows vs. the standard grade.
During your nock tuning process did you happen to change out the nock (keeping track of original nock orientation), and see if it was the same Bullet hole?
Mmm no cuz they were brand new arrows and nocks
Whooo there ya go, good idea….possible right, just to add maybe Re square again as well no?
If you have a hooter shooter next time do it with that
I have a odd question when I'm at full draw and I looked through my peep half of my site is behind the visor
I'm guessing your rest is inside of center so your sight is pushed way right in order to hit the middle
Which TAC event are you going to?
Was there any consistency on spine orientation after being nock tuned or were all arrows different?
Only two shot a bullet home when oriented with the spine i originally marked
Been wondering this myself lately
I’ve never spine indexed or nock tuned. My arrows fly great, so it seems like a waste of time to me.
Difference between great and better is what it comes down to.... some people never stop striving to be better, some are satisfied with being okay. We now know which you are
I guess so. 1” groups at 50 yards is good enough for me. I don’t see the point in wasting my time trying to do better.
@@n2trkys18 thats about what i shoot. i still am always trying to do better though
@@tradrodsandcustoms You two should go win some FITA shoots because that's world class shooting you're talking about!
@@theingobeck4772 🤷♂️ i dont compete with anyone but the big smelly elk
Do u step back tune your bow before doing this ?
If there are steps that I can make my arrows better tuned, I’m doing it. If that means nock tuning after I spine index, then #thisistheway 🏹
What if you use pin nocks?
Hi, would you recommend to use feather fletches for compound bow?
No for compounds you want to use plastic vanes. Some people still 4in. or 5in. feathers on large diameter, heavy arrows for indoor competition because they're only shooting 20yds., but pretty much everyone uses plastic vanes with a compound these days
@@InsideOutPrecision why are feather vanes not recommended fir compound bows, ? apologies, I am curious 🤒
@@h0tkoko compound bows are too fast for the feather to steer the arrow well. They just collapse. Plastic vanes are obviously much stiffer
@@InsideOutPrecision thanks, that is a very legitimate explanation 👍
Always nock tune my broadheads the past few years
Honestly can't believe you never did this beforehand
Still not sure how big if a difference it makes once the arrows are fletched. Might eliminate that occasional flyer, which i guess is worth the time when you're shooting for score!
I noticed a big difference in my arrows. Vap elite300s, and now vap tko 300s. Gets very noticeable at longer range
Don’t have to watch the video and can answer the question.....yes it is worth it
I found spine marking is a waste time, I nock tune all arrows, it doesn't get any better.
I wondered this after nock tuning and I don’t have a spine tester to check for actual spine location so I just nocked tuned and got all arrows hitting a bullet hole. This was a great video explaining that and your findings.
Nicked tuned...?
@@justintorres08
Yeah i see you edited
You’re welcome
@@justintorres08
No worries Justin
Ranch Fairy approved.
LOL.
Never believed this until I tried it.....
What about just switching out nocks to see if its the nocks
If they’re brand new arrows the nocks will be new tok
@@InsideOutPrecision someone once told me that nocks, even being new and same brand and type , can react differently off the string. Ive never tested. Just wondering if you have
It does matter with vanes. I do my nock tuning with vanes. There is still a difference.
Cool! I dont meet to many people that tune after the fletching besides me. You can bare shaft tune but once the fletching are on there you may have adjust the nock again. So for me personally i wait tell the fletchings are on the arrow.
My older bowtech marquis shoots better than my new Hoyt
My field points nock tune different than broadheads so definitely shoot your broadheads
Ranch Fairy told us to do bareshaft tuning. I listened. It surely works. Put in the extra effort and see the results.
to tune, or nock to tune
And.....if you're shot execution isn't damn near perfect...... this is about worthless as well. I typically nock tune outside and it's amazing how a badly executed shot will really whip the arrow. It's really visible.
I'm also not how much it helps for field tips but I do know every little bit helps with adult broadheads!
Yeah its crazy how much the tiniest difference in tour execution will change the tune. Thats why I like to shoot each orientation at 3 or 4 times
@@InsideOutPrecision exactly. Good to get verification.
Always listen to the ranch fairy haha
"I hate thick cotton. I prefer cheap shear garbage cotton that rips the first thing that touches it"
Lol the thick stuff that available had a horrible cut and was just as long as it was wide after one wash. The stuff we picked is really nice. Durable but not heavy.
One bullet hole means nothing. You’re human and your form isn’t exactly the same every time. Shoot a few more with the nock turned wrong and you’ll get a bullet hole and vice versa. If you’re gonna use an average you need a dozen shots. I’ve nock tuned hundreds of arrows and very few have not shot good holes “on average.” Tune now/one arrow to a bullet hole and then shoot the rest and i bet regardless of nock orientation if your bow is tuned you get good holes with darn near every arrow.
Yeah it’s definitely not for newer shooters. But it’s wild to see how a bare shaft reacts off the rest differently just from orienting the spine differently
my dasd hit me with a nock ansd he said knocj knock and i died hlep
Me personally i wait tell the fletchings are on the arrow. Ive noticed that bare shaft tuning helps but once the fletchings are on i always have to adjust the nock again. So for me waiting until there fletched and then paper tuning by rotating the nock works wonders for me. Again i know bare shaft tuning is the thing right now. But i get the same results from doing it with the fletchings on instead of doing it twice.